Scouts Inc has Anthony Davis ahead of Okung

[bhi4582]

Not huge news but I know many would like us to use our #4 on a LT. Interesting because Okung has been the undisputed top OL for 4 months now.

[skinsfan190]

Not really. Plus there was already a thread posted about this. Davis being better than Okung

IMO none of the tackles are worth the 4th pick tho

[bhi4582]

Yes but a thread by fans who know nothing about scouting (though they think they do) and an NFL scouting expert is another story. None the less, I agree drafting an OL 4th would be a huge reach and terrible pick. Now if we are able to trade down to say 14th or 15th, Id be so inclined but as many fail to understand, its a buyers market and these day with the rookie salaries, you can't give away your top picks and expect anything decent in return.

[Burgold]

This could be a good argue for a trade-down scenario. If you believe Okung is a LT that will be very good/great and you believe he won't even be the first LT off the board that gives you wiggle room to trade down and see about accumulating more picks.

[cjrugger]

I think the idea is Davis has a much higher potential, although a lower ceiling. Okung would be the "safer" pick imho

[The Cowboy Bamma Rocker]

Sometimes these guys change around. wasnt andre smith supposed to be the first tackle chosen last year? albeit this was about a year before the draft but still.

[The Rook]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft

Not much difference. 96 vs 95 grade.

Time to go to the tape and see which one has the strengths in the type of blocking you would want on your Oline.








:helmet:The Rook

[Laxpunk2006]

I think the idea is Davis has a much higher potential, although a lower ceiling. Okung would be the "safer" pick imho

A "ceiling" is usually referring to a player's potential so a higher potential and lower ceiling doesn't make as much sense. Did you mean a lower floor or is there something I'm missing?

[jflow78]

I think the idea is Davis has a much higher potential, although a lower ceiling.

So for the sake of clarification, are you saying Davis has farther to go than Okung?

I'm not sure the terms potential and "ceiling" are any different.

EDIT:.....AAAAnnnnnd you beat me to it Laxpunk.

[abdcskins]

Frankly I'd be happy with either one. We've ignored the position for too long.

I am the first to admit I have very little knowledge when it comes to evaluating offensive lineman. I suppose hand positioning/movement, speed, and strength are the most important aspects. Didn't see either of these players in a game.

[cjrugger]

A "ceiling" is usually referring to a player's potential so a higher potential and lower ceiling doesn't make as much sense. Did you mean a lower floor or is there something I'm missing?

My bad, yes should have said "lower floor"

[The Cowboy Bamma Rocker]

A "ceiling" is usually referring to a player's potential so a higher potential and lower ceiling doesn't make as much sense. Did you mean a lower floor or is there something I'm missing?

Um... yes you can have a lower ceiling. It means that player's maximum potential isn't as high as another's. Maybe he used it out of context, i didnt see the post.

[Forehead]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft

Not much difference. 96 vs 95 grade.

Time to go to the tape and see which one has the strengths in the type of blocking you would want on your Oline.

I'd think Okung would be the better fit. Isn't he more of a finesse blocker than a straight ahead mauler type, which Davis is. Unless I've completely misread Mike Shanahan's previous running game and blocking schemes, Okung is the better fit.

[VaBeachRedskin]

I'd think Okung would be the better fit. Isn't he more of a finesse blocker than a straight ahead mauler type, which Davis is. Unless I've completely misread Mike Shanahan's previous running game and blocking schemes, Okung is the better fit.

For Okung imagine a better Stephon Heyer. Run blocking is not his forte and he could have some troubles in pass pro.

[Laxpunk2006]

Um... yes you can have a lower ceiling. It means that player's maximum potential isn't as high as another's. Maybe he used it out of context, i didnt see the post.

I didn't say a player "can't have a lower ceiling." I said it means the same thing as potential, which is exactly what you just said.

[The Cowboy Bamma Rocker]

Ok, yeah we're on the same page, sorry. I didn't look at the post it was in context with! He definitely meant lower floor.

[NewCliche21]

Ok, yeah we're on the same page, sorry. I didn't look at the post it was in context with! He definitely meant lower floor.

Read THEN post.

It goes much better that way. :)

[yank]

For Okung imagine a better Stephon Heyer. Run blocking is not his forte and he could have some troubles in pass pro.

Other than that he's a real stud, eh ....

[Jumbo]

What about the walls? If you don't make the walls reach from that floor all the way to wherever the ceiling is, **** will be all ****ed up. You need to consider the walls.

[stevemcqueen1]

I think the idea is Davis has a much higher potential, although a lower ceiling. Okung would be the "safer" pick imho

Wait, say that again. Ceiling and potential are the same thing in this context. Do you mean a lower floor?

[stevemcqueen1]

So for the sake of clarification, are you saying Davis has farther to go than Okung?

I'm not sure the terms potential and "ceiling" are any different.

EDIT:.....AAAAnnnnnd you beat me to it Laxpunk.

Hahaha, yeah I definitely came late to the party. It's been a long day...

[kingdaddy]

I would love to see the Skins go offensive line with their first 4 picks. Just take one in each of the first 4-5 rounds and build from there. By 2012 we should have the best line in the league due largely to this coming draft. Everything else go get in free agency or by trade. If the Saints don't resign Reggie Bush, sign him. If Denver will take a 2011 2nd rounder for Brandon Marshall, get him too. Build the O-line thru the draft and get everything else the George Allen way.

[The Cowboy Bamma Rocker]

Read THEN post.

It goes much better that way. :)

usually I do... but alas I am a lazy college student. what I thought I saw was "there is no such thing as a lower ceiling" and I jumped. sue me lol

[stevemcqueen1]

I'd think Okung would be the better fit. Isn't he more of a finesse blocker than a straight ahead mauler type, which Davis is. Unless I've completely misread Mike Shanahan's previous running game and blocking schemes, Okung is the better fit.


For Okung imagine a better Stephon Heyer. Run blocking is not his forte and he could have some troubles in pass pro.

I'm going to chime in here since I've given both prospects a lot of thought. I think Heyer is a pretty pessimistic comparison for a guy as polished as Okung. And as a run blocker, he's much better about getting to the second level than Heyer is. Okung is smart, works hard, and executes his assignments correctly most of the time. Heyer is terrible, Okung will at least be average. But you are right about him not excelling in any one area of the position. He's durable and uses excellent footwork to compensate for a lack of foot speed.

BUT, I think Davis would be a much better fit and pick for us than Okung even if we run a full zone running game. He's a much more explosive player--better initial quickness and far more strength and that gives him tremendous advantage as a zone run blocker since he'd easily win his positioning battles at the PoA. His steps will be faster and he'll be able to get a pop on defenders who are more explosive than him at the snap and still get into the correct position. Plus he already has some experience trap blocking from his time as a guard as a freshman, and he gets into space and the second level just as well as Okung does.

Davis is a lot better prospect. This is only the tip of the iceberg. The draftnik community is finally starting to realize how much they overrated Okung. When all is said and done, I think he'll be a late first round pick. Charles Brown looked like the better prospect this season...

[Brett81]

I think the idea is Davis has a much higher potential, although a lower ceiling. Okung would be the "safer" pick imho


A "ceiling" is usually referring to a player's potential so a higher potential and lower ceiling doesn't make as much sense. Did you mean a lower floor or is there something I'm missing?

Don't worry I guys, I found the answer you were looking for...
43139

What about the walls? If you don't make the walls reach from that floor all the way to wherever the ceiling is, **** will be all ****ed up. You need to consider the walls.

If you notice Jumbo, the walls appear to be pretty steady...but I guess we'll know after a couple offseasons.

[NewCliche21]

usually I do... but alas I am a lazy college student. what I thought I saw was "there is no such thing as a lower ceiling" and I jumped. sue me lol

The best part about being a lazy college student is that the better you are at it, the longer you'll be one.

[TomE]

The best part about being a lazy college student is that the better you are at it, the longer you'll be one.

depends on who's footin' the bill

[DGREENHULK]

We'll see at the combine which one is more explosive...as in the 3 cone drill and reps at 225....

[DGREENHULK]

Oh and for the record lineman should bench 315 for reps at the combine not 225....let me see one of them throw up 315lbs 30 times like they do at 225.....not going to happen but it would separate the men from the boys...

[nelsonal]

I think the idea is Davis has a much higher potential, although a lower ceiling. Okung would be the "safer" pick imho

I read this as:
I think the idea is Davis has a much higher potential. Although a lower ceiling, Okung would be the "safer" pick imho
Everything made sense then.

[shannyman1]

For Okung imagine a better Stephon Heyer. Run blocking is not his forte and he could have some troubles in pass pro.

Don't know where you got this idea that run blocking is not his thing. I once saw him drive a right defensive end 5 yards backwards on a running play. Is he projected as a top 5 pick because his run blocking is average or below? I THINK NOT. And you shouldn't either.

[Skins Fan 2932]

Don't know where you got this idea that run blocking is not his thing. I once saw him drive a right defensive end 5 yards backwards on a running play. Is he projected as a top 5 pick because his run blocking is average or below? I THINK NOT. And you shouldn't either.
Need proof of his run blocking? Just the sites I found. I’m sure there are others maybe some to dispute these. I’m trying to find him run blocking against good completion and not just any DE. Maybe someone else can help me here.


From: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1133637
Run blocking: Will lean forward when trying to aggressively run block, and loses his balance against quicker ends. Drive blocking is not his strength, as he tends to get his pads too high too quickly. Keeps legs churning after initial contact, however, to take his man out of the play or put him on the ground. Once engaged, will not let go - sometimes through the whistle. Can turn his man inside or outside using angles and foot work, not brute strength. Effective hitting linebackers at the second level, but fails to sustain when punching instead of latching on.
Pulling/trapping: Looks agile for his size when asked to move, which is quite often for a left tackle, but inconsistent hitting defenders in space. Seals the edge with good footwork, even if he needs to get outside the tackle box first. Has the flexibility to adjust to inside blitzers or keep out linebackers attacking a gap.

From: http://www.nfldraftbible.com/Players/List/2010-Big-Board/Russell-Okung.html
Cons: At 305 pounds, Okung will need to add 10-20 pounds to be a dominating NFL left tackle. He has All-Pro potential and skills, but he will not be able to handle the bull rush from the NFL’s best at 305. Coming from the spread offense that Oklahoma State runs, Okung will need to improve as a run blocker. He also needs to get stronger in the weight room.

From: http://www.draftboardinsider.com/cgi-bin/prospect.cgi?id=757

Scouting Report-From a physical standpoint, Okung has that build that teams are looking for not. Less about being a big bulky road grader, and more about being tall, with long arms, athletic frame and a strong base. From a technical standpoint, Okung is an outstanding pass protector, able to set up quickly, keep his feet under him, and use a good punch to keep defenders at bay. He's got quick feet, and moves really well from side to side and while he's not a dominant player, he's really consistent. He shows good conditioning, able to play well at the ends of games just like at the start. His run blocking has improved, but it still remains to be seen if he can consistently line up and run block out of a traditional set. He's good at the second level, able to find players and engage and finish his blocks. He's an experienced player with 35+ starts in his career and hasn't missed any time with injuries and durability is huge. There's a ton of potential you can see in his game, and that alone will make him a high first round pick.

[[[ghost]]]

I'm not surprised. It's very common in the draft for a player ranked #1 at his position to lose distance between the #2 guy without having played a down of football or even lifted a barbell in the meantime.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Okung have the slight edge come draft day, yet still be the #2 tackle taken.

[stevemcqueen1]

We'll see at the combine which one is more explosive...as in the 3 cone drill and reps at 225....

Neither of those would demonstrate explosiveness. The bench is used to determine muscular endurance more than anything else and the 3 cone drill is to test lateral quickness and CoD.

The only way I can think of to compare their explosiveness at the combine would be vertical leap and to watch them side by side in 1 on 1s and in game situations. Just look at the tape to watch who gets off the ball faster, etc.


Oh and for the record lineman should bench 315 for reps at the combine not 225....let me see one of them throw up 315lbs 30 times like they do at 225.....not going to happen but it would separate the men from the boys...

Why? A long armed 6'6" linemen is already at a massive disadvantage on the bench compared to a 5'10" running back or safety.

[illone]

Davis at #4 there is no shame in that AT ALL.

[VaBeachRedskin]

Don't know where you got this idea that run blocking is not his thing. I once saw him drive a right defensive end 5 yards backwards on a running play. Is he projected as a top 5 pick because his run blocking is average or below? I THINK NOT. And you shouldn't either.

When more people go over his film more thoroughly he will no longer be considered this top 5 pick that the media hyped him up to be.

An interesting read
http://seahawksdraft.blogspot.com/2010/01/russell-okung-ot-oklahoma-state.html

And Scouts Inc posted a blurb about Okung talking about how his pass protection could be a concern in the pros and that it might push him towards the later portion of the 1st round.

[icbmayday]

Trade down some spots and draft the best tackle available

[talk show host]

Not huge news but I know many would like us to use our #4 on a LT. Interesting because Okung has been the undisputed top OL for 4 months now.

The only people who think Okung has been the undisputed top OL for months are people who don't know anything about football and just pay attention to mel kiper and other espn hacks. Not only does Davis have significantly more upside than Okung, but he's also a much better fit for the zone blocking system shanahan will (probably) be running. That said, neither is worth the #4 overall pick. Hopefully we can trade down and get more picks.

[stevemcqueen1]

Trade down some spots and draft the best tackle available

This would be what I'd try and do. I actually don't think there is a huge difference between Davis and Okung and the next group of Charles Brown, Bryan Bulaga, and Bruce Campbell. Brown is actually the guy I would target since he looks like one of the better athletes in the class with a high ceiling. He's also got two years of experience in a ZBS already so in some ways he's more polished than Okung and Davis already (help blocking, trapping).

The problem is, it's probably going to be very difficult to trade down from 4 unless a team really really loves a defender at our spot. And if we target Sam Bradford as our QB, we can't afford to trade down.

[alwaysaskin]

Sometimes these guys change around. wasnt andre smith supposed to be the first tackle chosen last year? albeit this was about a year before the draft but still.

Last year was so fluid with the big four. I was surprised that Jason Smith was the first off the board. I though Andre had the best potential. Monroe ended getting ranked higher for a while because he had a low floor.

As for Davis and Okung, I can see another situation where Bulaga, Davis and Okung rotate at that top spot. I would not add Campbell to the list because his injury history IMO makes him an extremely risky pick at this point.

[alwaysaskin]

This would be what I'd try and do. I actually don't think there is a huge difference between Davis and Okung and the next group of Charles Brown, Bryan Bulaga, and Bruce Campbell. Brown is actually the guy I would target since he looks like one of the better athletes in the class with a high ceiling. He's also got two years of experience in a ZBS already so in some ways he's more polished than Okung and Davis already (help blocking, trapping).

The problem is, it's probably going to be very difficult to trade down from 4 unless a team really really loves a defender at our spot. And if we target Sam Bradford as our QB, we can't afford to trade down.

I thought Brown projects better as a RT, still would not mind getting him with our second round pick, as I think he will be a day one stater. I think Bulaga is better than Okung in pass protection and would not mind seeing us draft him, we could even trade back and still end up with a Bulaga/Brown/Assamoah Combo with the option to get McKnight in round four.

I think Campbell's injury history makes him the riskiest prospect in this class too many red flags with injuries. I would like to se us use a late pick on a Center

[Brett81]

Updated 7 round mock from DraftTek...this should make all the Okung'ers happy...but please read the blurb next to his name and take it seriously.

http://www.drafttek.com/round12010.asp

Skins recap:

Rd 1 - Russel Okung OT, Ok St
Rd 2 - Vladimir Ducasse OG, UMASS
Rd 4 - Jarrett Brown QB, WVU
Rd 5 - LeGarrette Blount RB, ORE
Rd 7 - Blair White WRF, Mich St

[vicrodjr]

I would love either OT, but not with the 4th overall pick. I wish we could trade down a couple of picks and still grab one of them, and pick up and extra pick.

[stevemcqueen1]

Rd 1 - Russel Okung OT, Ok St
Rd 2 - Vladimir Ducasse OG, UMASS
Rd 4 - Jarrett Brown QB, WVU
Rd 5 - LeGarrette Blount RB, ORE
Rd 7 - Blair White WRF, Mich St

Ugh, not a very big fan of that class at all. We can get much better prospects than Brown in the 4th. If we don't draft Bradford, we should just wait until next year on QB. Blair White doesn't do much for me, and Ducasse would be a reach at 37 IMO. He's got great tools but he's just so raw right now. He'll take as long to develop as Rinehart has. Surely there'd be a better lineman on the board at 37 than Ducasse. Ditto for Okung at 4. I'd rather take Davis.

Also I'm not sure Blount is the best fit unless Shanahan changes some things about his running game. Blount ran in an east-west zone scheme at Oregon but it looks like his best potential is as a downhill runner in the NFL.

[DCMONEY]

I think the Skins need to be focusing aggressively on the o-line. I can remember when the Skins took Rod Gardner. In my circle of friends they could tell you I wanted Steve Hutchinson bad in that draft. Hutchinson has gone on to be a force. I stand corrected but I think he's on the all decade team.

[mistertim]

Ugh, not a very big fan of that class at all. We can get much better prospects than Brown in the 4th. If we don't draft Bradford, we should just wait until next year on QB. Blair White doesn't do much for me, and Ducasse would be a reach at 37 IMO. He's got great tools but he's just so raw right now. He'll take as long to develop as Rinehart has. Surely there'd be a better lineman on the board at 37 than Ducasse. Ditto for Okung at 4. I'd rather take Davis.

Also I'm not sure Blount is the best fit unless Shanahan changes some things about his running game. Blount ran in an east-west zone scheme at Oregon but it looks like his best potential is as a downhill runner in the NFL.

Admittedly I haven't watched him as much as you have, but I've read that one of the main knocks on Davis is his inconsistency. Didn't he also show up pretty overweight before this past season started?