Yahoo: Probe: track didn’t cause luger’s death??

[cedk]

Article
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/vancouver/luge/news?slug=ap-lug-lugerdies&prov=ap&type=lgns
Officals blame human error.
He lost control into a a metal pole at 90 mile an hour.
Officals are putting a larger wall barrier there now.
But blame the luger for the mistake

video Warnig man dies
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6202459n

[cedk]

Of course I fell tracks safety was poor .No protection from metal pole when going 90 mile a hour.

[stevenaa]

Wow that was violent. Not sure even cushions on the supports would have helped. It's a dangerous sport for sure.

[spjunkies]

I refuse to look at this video.

R.I.P

[cedk]

No cushion..Needed a wall!! There now

[Forehead]

Wow, reading the title, I thought Lex Luger had died. But then I remembered hearing about this. Can't vote because I won't watch the video.

[sjinhan]

i am actually shocked that nbc had a link to the violent video on its front page of their olympics website... they basically directing their internet traffic to view that video..

EDIT: i know he had a cbs video up there.. but I am talking about the NBC's website who owns the coverage rights this year..

[DeanCollins]

video wasn't that bad (no blood and couldn't even see the face) it's only 5 seconds.
I thing the problem was lack of banking in the last corner before entering the deceleration lane. The pole could've been padded but they didn't antisapate someone leaving the track at the end. I voted track safty.

[Bang]

It seems to me that the roof could be supported without having those columns so close to the track. It looks like a design flaw to me. They could be moved easily 15 feet from the track instead of being right up tight to it like that.
Granted, no amount of padding will help when going that speed, but having the supports so close to the track like that is asking for trouble.

~Bang

[Teller]

This is kind of like Dale Earnhardt's death for NASCAR fans. It was driver error that resulted in the crash that killed him. But it also led to major safety innovations, like SAFER barriers, foam in the shell of the cars, HANS devices, etc.

I think the only thing that CAN be done at this point, regardless of who's "at fault" is to make the course as safe as possible for the rest of the competitors.

[hockeysc23]

Going 90 mph no padding would've saved this guy. Even if the poles weren't there he would probably be paralyzed for life.

The sport is dangerous. Now if I don't watch/know enough about luge/skeleton but if that speed is normal then driver error. If this was above and beyond speed they should make a slower track.

[skinsfan44]

This is kind of like Dale Earnhardt's death for NASCAR fans. It was driver error that resulted in the crash that killed him. But it also led to major safety innovations, like SAFER barriers, foam in the shell of the cars, HANS devices, etc.

I think the only thing that CAN be done at this point, regardless of who's "at fault" is to make the course as safe as possible for the rest of the competitors.

Yeah Sterling Marlin.

[21cents]

why is that even a sport? it looks like a suicide bed

[Special K]

That video was horrific. To see an injury that leads to a human death is really depressing. I have no idea why I just watched that.

I'm no engineer, but I agree with Bang that those beams should have been moved away from the track when this was built. I don't know if they would have been able to support the structure farther away, but it would seem like something could have been done to construct that differently.

I heard they are building a higher wall there now. I don't get why there aren't high walls after every corner in case something freak like this happens.

And officials say this track is fine, but the athletes seem to be saying differently. The interviews I've read give me the impression that the athletes aren't too fond of this track. I know this is the first fatal crash here, but I think there have been several other significant crashes even dating back to last year.

So yeah, I call BS on the officials who are saying this was largely human error. Maybe it was, but I think tracks should be built to anticipate such accidents (especially in such a dangerous sport) as no athlete is perfect 100% of the time. It seems to me more precautions could have been taken when this thing was originally constructed.

[Midnight Judges]

If it's not the track's fault, why are they modifying it?

I heard on the radio people have been questioning the safety of this track (the world's fastest) for weeks.

[Bubble Screen]

Yeah Sterling Marlin.

If you're blaming your Marlin for his death, you are a sad, sad person.

[skinsfan44]

If you're blaming your Marlin for his death, you are a sad, sad person.

I am NOT a fan of Marlin.

I am not blaming Marlin for Dale Earnhardt's death (Seat belt was at fault) but I am blaming Marlin for putting Earnhardt into the wall when everyone in the world knew that no one was getting past Earnhardt while he was blocking for his 2 team mates near the end of the 2001 Daytona 500.

[Special K]

Thanks for opening this can of worms H_H! :ols:

[The Brave Little Toaster Oven]

this is typical....always blame the dead guy...:rolleyes:

[HighOnHendrix]

There are certain sports that are so dangerous and pointless that they should just go away. This is one of them. I feel bad for the athlete, his friends, and family. Lots of things are dangerous, but luge goes way beyond the bounds of any sensibility.

[Teller]

Yeah Sterling Marlin.

Dave, I love ya man, but Dale wasn't clear. God rest him.

[Teller]

Thanks for opening this can of worms H_H! :ols:

Sorry, Katie. Not my intent at all. I just thought it was a legit comparison.

Hope your trip's going well! Be safe!

[Corcaigh]

It's a high speed track and an inexperienced competitor.

The design with the poles close to the track contributed to the death for sure but if your body flies through the air at 90 + miles an hour the outcome is not going to be good.

[terpfan]

Wow I wish I had not watched that.

[Ellis]

That video was horrific. To see an injury that leads to a human death is really depressing. I have no idea why I just watched that.

I never wanted to watch the video.
I had CNN on last night b/c I was curious to get details on the Alabama shooting... then, with barely any warning, Campbell Brown leads into the death video of the luger. It was depressing. I'll never shake the sound of that guy hitting the steel beam from my memory. ugh.

I hate that news organizations think showing the video is necessary. It's not. It's disturbing.

[Teller]

I never wanted to watch the video.
I had CNN on last night b/c I was curious to get details on the Alabama shooting... then, with barely any warning, Campbell Brown leads into the death video of the luger. It was depressing. I'll never shake the sound of that guy hitting the steel beam from my memory. ugh.

I hate that news organizations think showing the video is necessary. It's not. It's disturbing.

I chose to watch it. I'm not proud of that, but I think it's part of the morbid side of human nature. Truly awful. Fortunately the video I saw was online and without sound. I think that would have been even more disturbing.

[Park City Skins]

An update about the track and the death of the young man. Pic of the area with walls being put up after accident included.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/sports/168399/luge-start-moved-as-officials-defend-death-track



International Luge Federation (FIL) president Josef Fendt on Saturday faced down claims that the Olympic track was too fast and could cause more deaths.
Georgian Nodar Kumaritashvili was killed on Friday after flying out of his luge while emerging from the 16th and final curve, fatally slamming into a steel column.

His death, the first the FIL has known in 35 years of competition, has cast a pall over the start of the Winter Olympics.

An emotional Fendt offered his condolences to the family of Kumaritashvili and the stricken Georgian delegation.

But while admitting he did not expect to see maximum speeds of 154 km/h on the track, almost 20km/h more than what had been initially expected, he denied it was too dangerous.

"It's one of the fastest tracks but we have never said it is too fast," said the German, who played down claims that he had concerns in December about the track speeds.

"I made some comments about speeds on tracks back then, but the speed discussion did not refer to this track, it referred to future tracks.

*click link for more*

[Corcaigh]

In my view at the Olympic level the participants should be able to be under control.

Will they close the downhill skiing next because it's too steep or fast also?

[Barney B]

In my view at the Olympic level the participants should be able to be under control. ?

I should be in control of my car at all times, but I'm still glad that it has an airbag instead of a metal pillar in front of my face. :)



Will they close the downhill skiing next because it's too steep or fast also?

Why, aren't they going to re-open the luge after making it a little safer?

[Mickalino]

By "track causing luger's death" does that mean the track itself, or what surrounds the track...what he hit, etc.. ?

[Corcaigh]

I should be in control of my car at all times, but I'm still glad that it has an airbag instead of a metal pillar in front of my face. :)


I agree. But the question is about what caused the death. If you lose control and hit something at 90+ even an air bag may not help your cause. But damn sure, a metal pole won't.

[Jrew1223]

Normally in designing a track such as this one the do it in a way where the athlete gains the majority of his speed using technique towards the end of the run... This track was designed to create speed early in the run so if the luger was inexperienced then maybe he had too much speed that he wasnt used to handling at the part of the track... It could have been a combination of track design and human error...

[Park City Skins]

From the article posted above.


"Nodar was a good athlete, he had 26 runs on the Whislter track, a large number of runs for an athlete of his calibre," added the American.

That's a nice number of runs it seems. While not an expert,it does seem the young man was more than familiar with the track.

[Englands Redskin]

The thing is, in a sport where you reach speeds in excess of 90mph, and you have no brakes, no air bags, no padding except for a helmet, the track should be designed to protect the participants as much as possible. After all, in this sport, it only takes a minor miscalculation or error and you are hurtling along at crazy speeds, if the track was designed better he probably would be nursing nothing worse than a few bruises all over his body right now, as he would have bounced down the track until finally coming to a stop.

Downhill skiing is harder to make safer because it's on a mountainside and not on a man made course, yet they have eliminated a lot of the risks by the use of the netting that catches skiers as they go flying off, and though they might suffer ligament damage, broken bones, concussion, deaths are rare.

Just googled it, and found the following deaths:
1938 Skier hit tree
1964 Skier hit tree
1984 Skier died after 5 years in a coma following a crash
1991 Severe abdominal injuries
1994 Broken neck
2001 Collided with another person on a training run (they were on the course by mistake apparently)
2004 Snowboarder dies on a snowboard cross training run.

And in the same period I can only find 2 luge deaths, 1964 and yesterday.

So not sure if that still qualifies as rare or not :whoknows:, but I do beleive that there is no excuse on a man made course to not make it as safe as humanly possible.

[Mickalino]

Downhill skiing is harder to make safer because it's on a mountainside and not on a man made course, yet they have eliminated a lot of the risks by the use of the netting that catches skiers as they go flying off, and though they might suffer ligament damage, broken bones, concussion, deaths are rare.

Just googled it, and found the following deaths:
1938 Skier hit tree
1964 Skier hit tree
1984 Skier died after 5 years in a coma following a crash


I assume you're referring only to ski deaths involving pro or competitive sports ?
Since I can tell that list doesn't include the ski deaths of Sonny Bono or Michael Kennedy, and others.

[cedk]

The day after this guy is dead.officials blame him in public for all to know including his family.
Insisting its not there fault or new tracks.
Yet they make many changes. A wall to protect from metal poles!! Change to ice they would not elaborate.
Article below states now they will only run from womans track.
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/vancouver/luge/news?slug=ap-lug-lugetrack&prov=ap&type=lgns
All these changes.
But they blamed him in public(quote human error)
Disgusting!
Several other people did also wipe out including former gold medalist during training.

Here woman luger gets knock out
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/vancouver/luge/news;_ylt=AlJKSjHec8ugyyBT5UiPw9KNsbV_?slug=ap-lug-romaniancrash&prov=ap&type=lgns


Here world record beat trial practice won't count
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/vancouver/luge/news;_ylt=AphfpZhPUyA.ElYFbJjgo_2NsbV_?slug=ap-lug-speedyrun&prov=ap&type=lgns

Basically they stop running the same course.

[abdcskins]

Imagine if, god forbid, another luger happens to get seriously injured or dies on this track. I'd have to imagine the IOC would be sued out the keister. I also can't imagine any lugers are looking forward to running that track. I'd be scared as hell, even without the veil of death looming over it.

For some reason the video isn't that disturbing to me, probably because I am a souless bastard. Really mostly because it happens so quickly and you can't really see the full view of him hitting it. Nonetheless it is hard to watch and it is incredibly sad. The guy was trying to compete and do his best and he dies from it. Man....RIP Nodar Kumaritashvili

[The Brave Little Toaster Oven]

The day after this guy is dead.officials blame him in public for all to know including his family.
Insisting it not there fault or new tracks.
Yet they make many changes. A wall to protect from metal poles!! Change to ice they would not elaborate.
All these changes.
But they blamed him in public(quote human error)
Disgusting!
Several other people did also wipe out including former gold medalist during training.


Well, this is typical when things like this happen....you blame the dead guy because he cant defend himself...everyone else knows what really happened, but they are going to deny it as much as they can....its sickening how they do this.

[ACW]

Just saw the video (on mute). I don't know who's at fault, but it looks like the videos being fast-forwarded; it's FAST.

[Park City Skins]

And yet another article about changes made to the track.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Olympics/2010/0213/Why-Vancouver-officials-say-luge-track-is-now-safe


CSM: Why Vancouver officials say luge track is now safe.

By Christa Case Bryant Staff writer / February 13, 2010

Whistler, British Columbia
After Nodar Kumaritashvili’s fatal crash on the Whistler luge track Friday, officials from the International Luge Federation and the Vancouver organizing committee (VANOC) this morning firmly defended their decision to proceed with the men’s luge heats as planned today. Team captains were informed in a meeting this morning and raised no concerns, the officials said.

Officials said that in addition to the precautionary measures announced overnight, they had decided that the men would race from the women’s start lower down on the track, which is likely to reduce speeds by about six miles per hour. They described the move as mainly aimed at addressing the emotional difficulty of the circumstances,

“We have to be respectful of those athletes whose friend died on that track,” said Tim Gayda, VANOC’s vice president for sport, at a press conference. “That’s why we want to make sure that they can step on [the track] with confidence and have an Olympic competition.”

*click link for rest*

[Mickalino]

The day after this guy is dead.officials blame him in public for all to know including his family.

Yea, when I heard it, I was thinking, "the least they could have done, is say that it was not due to a fault in the track, in their opinion".
Which might at least chalk it up to freak accident.
They didn't have to nail it on him at this point.

[cedk]

Yea, when I heard it, I was thinking, "the least they could have done, is say that it was not due to a fault in the track, in their opinion".
Which might at least chalk it up to freak accident.
They didn't have to nail it on him at this point.

exactly.... no need to point fingers

[AzSkinsFan63]

I believe the guy would have lived if he would not have been thrown from the track.

How is that not the fault of the track's poor design due to it's excessive speed capabilities? Especially when there have been voiced concerns for a few months now from what I hear.

I watched the video and ABC's was really bad with complete sound. But I chose to look at it and watch.

The main reason it shouldn't be available though is for the sake of the family and loved ones and I shouldn't have watched for that reason...but I did.

[Skin'Em84]

I think the issue with the track is moreso the bare metal post instead of the speed. Safety nets or padding or breakaway walls or both would be an even greater safety increase than shortening the track. And it wouldn't weaken the sport, danger comes with the luge.

[Enter Apotheosis]

The track didn't cause the accident but it did guarantee the fatality.

That's the best way I can sum this whole mess up. Deceleration is what's going to kill you in these kinds of accidents and in that regard there really shouldn't be any nearby, rigid surfaces that do not run parallel to the track. Padding wouldn't necessarily have been enough to save Kumaritashvili in this instance. The only possible way they could have had support columns there while still making that kind of crash survivable would be if the columns themselves were built to break away on impact.

[DCsportsfan53]

There are certain sports that are so dangerous and pointless that they should just go away. This is one of them. I feel bad for the athlete, his friends, and family. Lots of things are dangerous, but luge goes way beyond the bounds of any sensibility.


I disagree. Sure it's dangerous but how often does and accident like this happen? Kids die every year all over the country playing football. Sometimes accidents happen, nobody's happy about it but I don't think it's right to condemn a sport you probably don't know the first thing about because of this one accident.

[visionary]

In other news, I heard earlier that the other Georgian luger dropped out.