MSNBC: Report- Roethlisberger accused of rape, again

[TheDiplomat]

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/35729899/ns/sports-player_news/

Give us a break Big Ben. You're such a likeable guy but all these stories about you and women could easily change that.

[gortiz]

dang man ...i see smoke everywhere.

http://www.tmz.com/

[TheDiplomat]

Why wouldn't he have just left that girl alone after the first incident.

[StillUnknown]

i wonder if ESPN will mention it this time around?

[Santana_89]

Damn this is not looking too good image wise for Ben...hope it's not true.

[skinsfan_1215]

You have to think that regardless of the outcome of this case, Ben is going to be stuck with this reputation for the rest of his life. I think the public can look past one accusation w/o a guilty verdict, but not 2.

[MattFancy]

Hmm...usually where this is smoke, there's fire...

[S.T.real,lights,out]

Wow!!! I have lost total respect for this guy. I dont care if it's true or not. U have to be an idiot to put yourself in that position again!! :doh:

[darklight1216]

The first accusation really seemed false, but now that there's two it's going to be hard for the public to overlook this.


http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/35729899/ns/sports-player_news/

Give us a break Big Ben. You're such a likeable guy but all these stories about you and women could easily change that.
All I've ever heard is that he's rude and/ or cocky as well as forgetfull. The last one isn't surprising considering his concussion history, but I digress...

[sideshow24]

Cyclops can't just get them to say yes or something?

[WALEOVECHKIN]

Twice is a trend...

[[[ghost]]]

The last chick was full of **** right?

If I were a money grubbing attention whore, the only person I'd accuse of rape before an athlete is an athlete who's already been accused of rape.

I'll side with Big Ben until this settles down.

[Vicious]

The woman has been treated and released from the hospital,

This is totally different from the first one.

[WALEOVECHKIN]

];7345508']The last chick was full of **** right?

If I were a money grubbing attention whore, the only person I'd accuse of rape before an athlete is an athlete who's already been accused of rape.

I'll side with Big Ben until this settles down.

She was full of **** on the rape charges but Roethlisberger did admit a sexual relationship with her. For this one to be reported asap and to have the cops come in and interview everyone, it seems like there may be something. The other chick held onto the alleged rape story for like 4 months...

[gortiz]

Cyclops can't just get them to say yes or something?

you my friend are a pig ...


a funny pig :pfft:

[TheismannQuote]

First and foremost...if you haven't been around this guy, he is not a "likeable" guy. Not well thought of to those who have to work around him. From Latrobe and Pittsburgh.

[darklight1216]

This is totally different from the first one.
Yeah it is. Rape examinations are heavy stuff. Most people don't just get those done for attention. And, of course, there is the possibility of hard evidence, which would take this to a whole different level.

[Peeping Wizard]

Ogre sounds like he is a good QB but not a good human being. It's too bad because he struck me as a decent mid-western kid when he came into the league. I guess fame goes to your head pretty easily.

[gortiz]

First and foremost...if you haven't been around this guy, he is not a "likeable" guy. Not well thought of to those who have to work around him. From Latrobe and Pittsburgh.

story ...

my best friends brother goes to get interviewd at a very, very prominent Rotweiler breeder in PA. It is standard procedure before you buy one of these dogs.


during the interview it comes up that my BFF's :pfft: bro was a football player. A very good one. All State in Viginia back in 1989.



just to make conversation, the breeder doing the interview says, "oh, have you ever heard of a Benjamin Roth, Roth, Roth something or other?"



My BFF's bro says, "Rothlisberger" and the breeder responds, YES! and goes into a story on WHAT AN A-HOLE BIG BEN WAS. Supposedly, the breeder gets a call from Ben's assistant saying that Ben wants two dogs, no questiOns asked. The Breeder was LIKE HELL NO and tells the assistant that he has to come in, fill out forms, do a background check, do an interview AND pay an admin fee.



Breeder gets a call from Ben the next day and he hits her with "name your price and I will double it, I just want two dogs" The Breeder says, "no." Than Ben hits her with the, "Do you know who I am?"

[sideshow24]

you my friend are a pig ...


a funny pig :pfft:


So long as we are friends.

[rd421]

fool me once shame on you...fool me twice....you're a douche

[TheismannQuote]

story ...


my best friends brother goes to get interviewd at a very, very prominent Rotweiler breeder in PA. It is standard procedure before you buy one of these dogs.


during the interview it comes up that my BFF's :pfft: bro was a football player. A very good one. All State in Viginia back in 1989.


just to make conversation, the breeder doing the interview says, "oh, have you ever heard of a Benjamin Roth, Roth, Roth something or other."


My BFF's bro says, "Rothlisberger" and the breeder responds, YES! and goes into a story on WHAT AN A-HOLE BIG BEN WAS. Supposedly, the breeder gets a call from Ben's assistant saying that Ben wants two dogs, no questiOns asked. The Breeder was LIKE HELL NO and tells the assistant that he has to come in, fill out forms, do a background check, do an interview AND pay an admin fee.


Breeder gets a call from Ben the next day and he hits her with "name your price and I will double it." The Bredder says, "no." Than Ben hits her with the, "Do you know who I am?"


Ha.. I got many, many...
-My cousin is a pro-athlete kind of girl. Brings my sister with her to this club in pitt ((me=not happy)) - Ben stands up in their circle's table , "Alright, all the ugly, fat (Expletive) get out...make room for the hot girls that want to (expletive)"

-Word in Latrobe is that he was recently banned form Arnold Palmers Golf Course for refusing to give an autograph to Arnold Palmer's grandson...then further refusing after he found out who the kid was. Arnold Palmer personally banned.

-Complete jackoff to all college kids that volunteer to work Training Camp in Latrobe. Tells the cafeteria staff, loudly, that there food sucks and there service sucks.

...I don't know, many more in my head but you get the picture. Everything this guy does is over-the-top just to make sure people hear him. He's THAT guy.

[darklight1216]

story ...


my best friends brother goes to get interviewd at a very, very prominent Rotweiler breeder in PA. It is standard procedure before you buy one of these dogs.


during the interview it comes up that my BFF's :pfft: bro was a football player. A very good one. All State in Viginia back in 1989.


just to make conversation, the breeder doing the interview says, "oh, have you ever heard of a Benjamin Roth, Roth, Roth something or other?"


My BFF's bro says, "Rothlisberger" and the breeder responds, YES! and goes into a story on WHAT AN A-HOLE BIG BEN WAS. Supposedly, the breeder gets a call from Ben's assistant saying that Ben wants two dogs, no questiOns asked. The Breeder was LIKE HELL NO and tells the assistant that he has to come in, fill out forms, do a background check, do an interview AND pay an admin fee.


Breeder gets a call from Ben the next day and he hits her with "name your price and I will double it, I just want two dogs" The Breeder says, "no." Than Ben hits her with the, "Do you know who I am?"

I'll admit that this sounds like most of the stories that fans (yes, Pittsburgh fans) have shared, but -and this is nothing personal - I have to take these kinds of stories with a grain of salt.

[TheismannQuote]

I'll admit that this sounds like most of the stories that fans (yes, Pittsburgh fans) have shared, but -and this is nothing personal - I have to take these kinds of stories with a grain of salt.

True. I've been around him. They're true.

[Larry Brown #43]

i wonder if ESPN will mention it this time around?

Yeah, kinda puts them in an awkward position. Now if they report this story, they have to acknowledge the previous incident, which they didn't report. They made their bed...

[StillUnknown]

Yeah, kinda puts them in an awkward position. Now if they report this story, they have to acknowledge the previous incident, which they didn't report. They made their bed...

cnnsi & cbs sportline have mentioned it, nothing from BSPN or yahoo sports though

[Gracelander]

Picture of the accuser..

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c202/Gracelander/crosbybaby.jpg

[Johnny Punani]

Ben Rothlisdoucher?

[gortiz]

I'll admit that this sounds like most of the stories that fans (yes, Pittsburgh fans) have shared, but -and this is nothing personal - I have to take these kinds of stories with a grain of salt.

that's cool, i know how stuff can get totally blown out of proportion. for all i know the breeder coudl be a whack job.

but dude, this guy has so many bad stories about him it seems, that their has to be some truth to his crappy way of treating people.

[darklight1216]

Yeah, kinda puts them in an awkward position. Now if they report this story, they have to acknowledge the previous incident, which they didn't report. They made their bed...
Didn't they eventually say something about the charges being dismissed?

I could have them mistaken with, you know every other media source, though...

True. I've been around him. They're true.
This is the part where people usually post a picture of themselves with the aforementioned celebrity. :silly:

I'm not saying you're a liar, because this sounds like stuff that I've heard from other people (from average Joes to reporters), but you can't believe everything you hear.

[Gracelander]

Ben is a Cowboy in the making.

[darklight1216]

that's cool, i know how stuff can get totally blown out of proportion. for all i know the breeder coudl be a whack job.

but dude, this guy has so many bad stories about him it seems, that their has to be some truth to his crappy way of treating people.
Yeah, it does sound like his MO and it's not one of those "When I was vacationing in Zimbabwe, we went for a walk on the beach together and he totally tortured a monkey" outlandish kind of stories.

It probably is true, and I'm really wondering if this accusation is true as well.

The first chick's story was donkey droppings, but this one was in the hospital... But hey, innocent until proven guilty.

Ben is a Cowboy in the making.
I was thinking he'd make a good Bengal.

[Laxpunk2006]

];7345508']The last chick was full of **** right?

If I were a money grubbing attention whore, the only person I'd accuse of rape before an athlete is an athlete who's already been accused of rape.

I'll side with Big Ben until this settles down.

Agreed. I know probably 4 or 5 girls that have claimed to have been raped at one point in their lives, some of which even went to the police. All of which have eventually admitted it was a lie/exageration for one reason or another.

The first chick was obviously lieing for money. This one we'll have to wait for the facts but Ben is an easy target at this point. If I were looking for attention/money Ben would 100% be my target right now.

[jnhay]

Twice is a trend...

Since when?

[Jeff in D.C.]

I think we should take a deep breath and let the facts come out before making any snap judgments here. It could very easily be that this chick is a money grubber and it's a classic financial shakedown, and at the same time it could be that Ben is a scumbag. Let's let the facts come out before deciding.

If these accusations are lies, he's guilty of really bad judgment getting with women who he obviously shouldn't be trusting. If the allegations are true, then of course he's guilty of far worse.

[NewCliche21]

];7345508']The last chick was full of **** right?

If I were a money grubbing attention whore, the only person I'd accuse of rape before an athlete is an athlete who's already been accused of rape.

I'll side with Big Ben until this settles down.


Agreed. I know probably 4 or 5 girls that have claimed to have been raped at one point in their lives, some of which even went to the police. All of which have eventually admitted it was a lie/exageration for one reason or another.

The first chick was obviously lieing for money. This one we'll have to wait for the facts but Ben is an easy target at this point. If I were looking for attention/money Ben would 100% be my target right now.

Wow.

Look at your posts. You know NOTHING about this situation, yet you're not all but ruling it out, you're accusing the woman of being "a money grubbing whore." I want you to look at your posts, really, and think about that.

Your automatic assumption is that she is lying, that Roethlisberger is telling the truth, and that the woman is a money grubbing whore.

Do you see what's wrong with that? Honestly, look at that. That is your snap judgment.


I think we should take a deep breath and let the facts come out before making any snap judgments here. It could very easily be that this chick is a money grubber and it's a classic financial shakedown, and at the same time it could be that Ben is a scumbag. Let's let the facts come out before deciding.

If these accusations are lies, he's guilty of really bad judgment getting with women who he obviously shouldn't be trusting. If the allegations are true, then of course he's guilty of far worse.

I totally agree with taking a deep breath before making any judgments.

One in four women experiences a sexual assault in her lifetime. It is an unfortunate and horrible truth but a truth nonetheless.

One in four.

Not aimed at any poster in particular, but think about this. Really think about it:

Do you have a mother? Grandmother? Girlfriend? Aunt? Sister? Daughter? Wife? Female friend? Godmother?

One in four. You pick which one.

Ten percent of all rapes are reported. Ten percent of THOSE go to court. Two percent of THOSE end in conviction, and hardly any of THOSE see jail time.

Are there false reports of rape? Of course. There's also false reports of burglary and arson for insurance fraud. If I came on the board and said, "My house was just burnt down," would you assume that I'm lying? Of course not.

And before the "Oh, but she changed her story!" crap comes up, write down an extremely traumatic event that just happened to you. Then have me not believe you, call you a liar, say that you deserved it, and have you recite that same story word-for-word. Hell, I bet you couldn't give me the same exact story of what you did last weekend verbatim over a four month period.

Go get some education on the topic, people. Really, do it. Look at the horrible judgments that are being passed onto this woman. Look at how you automatically think. Look at how you're conditioned to think. It's really, really terrifying.

[Vicious]

Lets see what the rape kit says. Does it really matter what comes out of Ben or the Woman's mouth when her vagina has trauma?

[OWUeagleMD]

Did that first post say Ben Roethlisberger was likable?

He's about as likable as Greg Paulus.

[darklight1216]

Lets see what the rape kit says. Does it really matter what comes out of Ben or the Woman's mouth when her vagina has trauma?
I'm not sure how appropriate that is, but we don't know that any evidence of assault was found. The last update that I read said that the police hadn't filed charges. If this women was beat up and fluids or hair from Ben were found, don't you think he would have been arrested?

[mbws]

...

If these accusations are lies, he's guilty of really bad judgment getting with women who he obviously shouldn't...


If these accusations are lies, the woman should do time.

[ncsuFB27]

Man, I hope for his sake this is fake. If it is his reputation will be ruined. If it's true his life is ruined.
More importantly if it is true I feel horrible for the woman involved.

[NewCliche21]

Lets see what the rape kit says. Does it really matter what comes out of Ben or the Woman's mouth when her vagina has trauma?

A very common misconception is how Sexual Assault Forensic Exams, or "rape kits" as they're frequently called, are used.

In order for a rape kit to be of any value, the woman has to go straight to the hospital without urinating, showering, changing clothes, or anything else that may disturb what is there. The chances of recovery of anything degrade exponentially with time elapsed.

Can you imagine experiencing that and your first thought being, "Oh, well, I should put back on these clothes, not pee, not get this disgusting feeling off of myself, not even brush myself off, and drive straight to the hospital to ask some stranger if that hospital performs a SAFE?" They are very, very rare and even more so unreliable.

A lot of people liken these kits to CSI-like gunshot residue tests or searching for hidden blood stains, but they do not work that way.

[NewCliche21]

I'm not sure how appropriate that is, but we don't know that any evidence of assault was found. The last update that I read said that the police hadn't filed charges. If this women was beat up and fluids or hair from Ben, don't you think he would have been arrested?

I think that it would be prudent for you to look up how long test results take and how substantial of a case that a prosecutor would like before charging someone like Ben Roethlisberger with sexual assault.

Most rapes do not include physical violence and you are also assuming that after any incident, the woman would not have cleaned up. Put yourself in that position and imagine if you are just going to do what I said in the post above.

[kiingspadee]

I wonder if we could trade Campbell to Pitt for something

[darklight1216]

I think that it would be prudent for you to look up how long test results take and how substantial of a case that a prosecutor would like before charging someone like Ben Roethlisberger with sexual assault.

Most rapes do not include physical violence and you are also assuming that after any incident, the woman would not have cleaned up. Put yourself in that position and imagine if you are just going to do what I said in the post above.
I'm aware of that, but the post I was replying to was assuming that there was trauma. I'm saying that if there was hard evidence right there, right now, he'd probably have been arrested.

http://www.tmz.com/videos?autoplay=true&mediaKey=52cc6944-0a6c-4748-84d3-512c4939b64b

The police statement

[NewCliche21]

I'm aware of that, but the post I was replying to was assuming that there was trauma. I'm saying that if there was hard evidence right there, right now, he'd probably have been arrested.

http://www.tmz.com/videos?autoplay=true&mediaKey=52cc6944-0a6c-4748-84d3-512c4939b64b

The police statement

Define "hard evidence" for me. Tearing? Bleeding? That doesn't happen in many cases. They are also dealing with a different level of lawyer with him.

The justice system does not exist in a bubble.

[SonnySide]

Well if numerous allegations were enough to throw a man in the pokey, kick him out of his job and sue him for everything he's got, Bill Clinton would be living under a bridge right now.

[darklight1216]

Define "hard evidence" for me. Tearing? Bleeding? That doesn't happen in many cases. They are also dealing with a different level of lawyer with him.

The justice system does not exist in a bubble.
Go check my other post.

[Vicious]

A very common misconception is how Sexual Assault Forensic Exams, or "rape kits" as they're frequently called, are used.

In order for a rape kit to be of any value, the woman has to go straight to the hospital without urinating, showering, changing clothes, or anything else that may disturb what is there. The chances of recovery of anything degrade exponentially with time elapsed.

Can you imagine experiencing that and your first thought being, "Oh, well, I should put back on these clothes, not pee, not get this disgusting feeling off of myself, not even brush myself off, and drive straight to the hospital to ask some stranger if that hospital performs a SAFE?" They are very, very rare and even more so unreliable.

A lot of people liken these kits to CSI-like gunshot residue tests or searching for hidden blood stains, but they do not work that way.

It says that she went to the hospital, so a beat down vagina, scratches and bruises are going to be there.

[NewCliche21]

It says that she went to the hospital, so a beat down vagina, scratches and bruises are going to be there.

You do know that there can be a rape without the presence of any of those, right?

[Special K]

Not saying she's a "money-grubbing whore," but Ben is definitely an easy target right now...

He should know this, or his PR people should have told him and he should not have put himself in this type of situation again. Regardless of the eventual outcome, the guy's a complete fool.

[NewCliche21]

Not saying she's a "money-grubbing whore," but Ben is definitely an easy target right now...

He should know this, or his PR people should have told him and he should not have put himself in this type of situation again. Regardless of the eventual outcome, the guy's a complete fool.

Being an easy target doesn't make it any less likely that he did it. In fact, it may increase the probability.

[darklight1216]

You do know that there can be a rape without the presence of any of those, right?
I think he's suggesting that she probably wouldn't have gone to the hospital unless there was.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d816c4891&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true
Deputy Police Chief Richard Malone said Roethlisberger had been with three other people who were mingling with another group that included the alleged victim. Malone said the woman and her party contacted a nearby police officer following the alleged assault.
"He's been identified as being at the scene, and there are allegations naming him as the perpetrator," Malone said.
Several areas of the nightclub were considered a crime scene, Malone said, but he wouldn't elaborate. The nature of the assault wasn't described, but Malone did say it was being termed a sexual assault, not a rape.

So it's not a rape and there is more than one person who fingered him. Now what are the chances some reporter is going to try to get these other party members to talk?

[NewCliche21]

I think he's suggesting that she probably wouldn't have gone to the hospital unless there was.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d816c4891&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true
Deputy Police Chief Richard Malone said Roethlisberger had been with three other people who were mingling with another group that included the alleged victim. Malone said the woman and her party contacted a nearby police officer following the alleged assault.
"He's been identified as being at the scene, and there are allegations naming him as the perpetrator," Malone said.
Several areas of the nightclub were considered a crime scene, Malone said, but he wouldn't elaborate. The nature of the assault wasn't described, but Malone did say it was being termed a sexual assault, not a rape.

So it's not a rape and there is more than one person who fingered him. Now what are the chances some reporter is going to try to get these other party members to talk?

If a woman consents to doing certain things that can cause enough vaginal lubrication, or even if her body responds to it naturally, then vaginal damage may not exist.

The report also states that it is not a rape; it is sexual assault. That is very key as rape is defined by intercourse only. In the case of forced oral sex, is there going to be anything in the vagina?

[Special K]

Being an easy target doesn't make it any less likely that he did it. In fact, it may increase the probability. Actually, I disagree. Being an easy target means being an easy target. Chicks know he has money.

Like I said, I'm not saying I do or don't believe her, but I'm not immediately jumping in to side with her just b/c I'm a chick too. There are a lot of issues in play here and I know a few guys who have been falsely accused of rape in situations very similar to this (club hopping, tryst in the bathroom or parking lot...accusation of rape). An accusation like this is made all the more appealing when someone is a celebrity and they have a lot of money.

Bottom line: He's an idiot for putting himself into a situation like this again. And if he actually is convicted of raping this girl, I hope they throw the book at him.

[NewCliche21]

Actually, I disagree. Being an easy target means being an easy target. Chicks know he has money.

Like I said, I'm not saying I do or don't believe her, but I'm not immediately jumping in to side with her just b/c I'm a chick too. There are a lot of issues in play here and I know a few guys who have been falsely accused of rape in situations very similar to this (club hopping, tryst in the bathroom or parking lot...accusation of rape). An accusation like this is made all the more appealing when someone is a celebrity and they have a lot of money.

Bottom line: He's an idiot for putting himself into a situation like this again. And if he actually is convicted of raping this girl, I hope they throw the book at him.

I'm not jumping sides either, but when you get a reputation for being a womanizer and being in situations like that, then it makes it more likely for you to have done it before.

Remember, only 10% of cases are even reported.

[Special K]

I'm not jumping sides either, but when you get a reputation for being a womanizer and being in situations like that, then it makes it more likely for you to have done it before.

Remember, only 10% of cases are even reported.
Again, I disagree.

The first chick who accused him was full of it.

So, what that says to be is that he has a reputation of being a moron who puts himself in bad situations, not a reputation of someone who rapes women.

Finally, yes, I am aware of many, many rape statistics. :)

[NewCliche21]

Again, I disagree.

The first chick who accused him was full of it.

So, what that says to be is that he has a reputation of being a moron who puts himself in bad situations, not a reputation of someone who rapes women.

Finally, yes, I am aware of many, many rape statistics. :)

Agreeing to disagree here.

And I am very, very happy that you are actually educated on the subject! :cheers:

[Fred Jones]

Reference the "Perk Kit" or "SAFE Kit" it just depends as with any evidence. Having the victim go straight to the hospital, don't change clothes, don't clean up and don't go to the bathroom is ideal, but how often does that happen? However, you can still find evidence sometimes if you get lucky.

Hopefully, the hospital had a S.A.N.E. on staff to perform the exam. An experienced and trained nurse that hopefully would know what to look for. How sexually active this girl was prior to this incident also plays a part.

Also, rape comes in many forms not just the brutal assault kind. Labeling it "sexual assault" may not mean anything. Cops are conducting their investigation and hopefully they can determine the truth.

And, I agree, Ben needs to rethink his social habits and put himself in better situations.

[Hiro]

];7345508']The last chick was full of **** right?

If I were a money grubbing attention whore, the only person I'd accuse of rape before an athlete is an athlete who's already been accused of rape.

I'll side with Big Ben until this settles down.
Disagree. The fact that this one actually was released from the hospital is troubling. This is showing a pretty bad pattern/really bad judgement on Ben's part. I'm personally going to without siding from either side here.

[NewCliche21]

Reference the "Perk Kit" or "SAFE Kit" it just depends as with any evidence. Having the victim go straight to the hospital, don't change clothes, don't clean up and don't go to the bathroom is ideal, but how often does that happen? However, you can still find evidence sometimes if you get lucky.

Hopefully, the hospital had a S.A.N.E. on staff to perform the exam. An experienced and trained nurse that hopefully would know what to look for. How sexually active this girl was prior to this incident also plays a part.

Also, rape comes in many forms not just the brutal assault kind. Labeling it "sexual assault" may not mean anything. Cops are conducting their investigation and hopefully they can determine the truth.

And, I agree, Ben needs to rethink his social habits and put himself in better situations.

Sir, I bow to you.

Biological evidence, even if preserved perfectly, degrades within 120 hours.

And to clarify your comment, the fact that a woman is sexually active does NOT mean that she did not experience a rape or sexual assault; it is purely necessary to understand in terms of evidence.

Also, I've read that it is being deemed a sexual assault, not a rape. Rape is in many states only considered to be vaginal penetration. If it were oral, then I'm strongly doubting that she did not brush her teeth or drink anything in the interim.

[Hubbs]

Bottom line: He's an idiot for putting himself into a situation like this again. And if he actually is convicted of raping this girl, I hope they throw the book at him.

If, hypothetically, they had completely consensual sex, how did he put himself into this situation?

Even if you have certain personal views about whether or not people should have one-night stands, to say that someone shouldn't have them because he could be accused of rape seems a bit extreme. (Not necessarily saying that's what you're, well, saying, it was just an easy response that I could imagine any random poster making.)

[Hiro]

If, hypothetically, they had completely consensual sex, how did he put himself into this situation?
Big Ben is notorious for having an active and wild nightlife. The guy hops bars like crazy, and apparently has a bad habit of getting himself wasted and hitting on women, based on reports.

This is the kind of behavior many are referring to that puts him in these situations. The guy may be single, but he doesn't have to go out there and basically himself out to dry by putting himself in positions of being accused, if say he didn't do it. He should have thought of this after the first time he was accused, and he's a moron for continuing this behavior. The guy's almost freaking 30, he needs to learn to grow the **** up.

[NoGravity]

He's definitely not the brightest QB, on or off the field. He is an idiot for putting himself in this situation after what happened last year. Then again, you have to remember the first girl was completely nuts according to all of the information provided (history of saying she wanted 'little Roethlisberger's' in e-mails, messing around with a guy posing as MARRIED man around the time of the alleged assault.)

I can't speak for this new case, but neither, including this one, were rape charges. They were both sexual assault which is completely different. That screams red flag to me. Why not just press rape charges on him? Sounds like someone wants a cash settlement from a 100 million dollar QB. But who konws, maybe Ben copped a feel and that was the apparent 'sexual assault' she is complaining about.

[Special K]

If, hypothetically, they had completely consensual sex, how did he put himself into this situation?

Even if you have certain personal views about whether or not people should have one-night stands, to say that someone shouldn't have them because he could be accused of rape seems a bit extreme. (Not necessarily saying that's what you're, well, saying, it was just an easy response that I could imagine any random poster making.)
My personal moral objections to one-night stands has nothing to do with my comments regarding Ben's seemingly sexual habits. For me, it's something I don't do, but to each his own, I don't really care.

However, what I AM saying is that he should know, or have had it hammered into his head by his PR handlers, that he, as a big name celebrity quarterback, has a huge bullseye on his back. With his fame comes a different set of rules than those applied to us normal people. He needs to understand that and live by that if he wants to stay out of trouble. He should have figured this out after his FIRST sexual assault claim. The fact that he continues his same pattern of behavior proves to me that the guy is a friggin idiot.

One example I'll give is Michael Phelps. He's actually learned from his prior image-tarnishing mistakes (allowing people to take a picture of him hitting up a bong at a party, etc.). These mistakes put him in hot water with endorsements. Anyway, he comes to Colorado Springs quite a bit to train with the swimmers and while he hangs out at the bar where a lot of the OTC athletes hang out every weekend and enjoys drinking, he doesn't allow people to take pictures with him in a bar (yeah, that's being ultra careful). Also, do you remember that snowboarder dude who got sent home from Vancouver Olympics because of those scandalous pictures of a girl with his bronze medal? Well that girl tried the same thing with Phelps right before the snowboarder guy and Phelps didn't fall for it and put himself in a compromising situation. Phelps gets it. Obviously Big Ben doesn't.

With being a celebrity comes a lot of perks, but there are also a lot of responsibilities. Unfortunately, as much as they might like to, they can't always behave like the rest of us normal humans because of the unique position they are in. That's all I'm saying...

[NewCliche21]

He's definitely not the brightest QB, on or off the field. He is an idiot for putting himself in this situation after what happened last year. Then again, you have to remember the first girl was completely nuts according to all of the information provided (history of saying she wanted 'little Roethlisberger's' in e-mails, messing around with a guy posing as MARRIED man around the time of the alleged assault.)

I can't speak for this new case, but neither, including this one, were rape charges. They were both sexual assault which is completely different. That screams red flag to me. Why not just press rape charges on him? Sounds like someone wants a cash settlement from a 100 million dollar QB. But who konws, maybe Ben copped a feel and that was the apparent 'sexual assault' she is complaining about.

I think that you should read some of the posts that I've made in this thread.

Why press rape charges if there was no rape? Sexual assault could be forced oral sex. Is that innocent?

I also want to point out that you, knowing literally nothing about this case, automatically assume that it is someone looking for money. That thought process is, well, disturbing.

Again, please see my other posts in this thread.

[NoGravity]

I think that you should read some of the posts that I've made in this thread.

Why press rape charges if there was no rape? Sexual assault could be forced oral sex. Is that innocent?

I also want to point out that you, knowing literally nothing about this case, automatically assume that it is someone looking for money. That thought process is, well, disturbing.

Again, please see my other posts in this thread.


Please read my post again, because obviously you haven't.

[NewCliche21]

Please read my post again, because obviously you haven't.

Your attitude is unnecessary; your content inaccurate.

You stated, very clearly, that your first thought is that this is about money. That is disturbing.

You then downplayed what the crime would have been and said that it was "copping a feel", as though that were not a violation in and of itself. You automatically jump to the defense of the accused and you see no problem with it. That is disturbing.

One in four.

[NoGravity]

Your attitude is unnecessary; your content inaccurate.

You stated, very clearly, that your first thought is that this is about money. That is disturbing.

You then downplayed what the crime would have been and said that it was "copping a feel", as though that were not a violation in and of itself. You automatically jump to the defense of the accused and you see no problem with it. That is disturbing.

One in four.

So your first thought is he did, in fact, sexually assault this girl? This in your mind is the right response? I guess you don't believe in the US legal system. That is disturbing :(

There was no attitude in my last post. I apologize if I offended you but it seems like you just skimmed through my post. I was saying maybe he was 'copping a feel' in reference to the fact that maybe it wasn't rape (i.e. no penetration occurred), hence why she filed the sexual assault charges instead. Guess you misunderstood.

[NewCliche21]

So your first thought is he did, in fact, sexually assault this girl? This in your mind is the right response? I guess you don't believe in the US legal system. That is disturbing :(

There was no attitude in my last post. I apologize if I offended you but it seems like you just skimmed through my post. I was saying maybe he was 'copping a feel' in reference to the fact that maybe it wasn't rape (i.e. no penetration occurred), hence why she filed the sexual assault charges instead. Guess you misunderstood.

My first response was to wait and see. Yours was to defend. You don't know how the legal system works with crimes like these and that said system does not work in a bubble when it comes to sexual crimes.

I won't guess that a junior high class taught you this, but there are a lot of ways to sexually assault someone that go way above "copping a feel", which is a violation. Even if you don't feel that its a violation, imagine some guy walking up to your mom and grabbing her breasts. How would that feel?

Survivor-blaming is what I am very much against. You automatically assumed that it was her fault because she wanted it to happen so that she could get a pay day. That is what you're engaging in and you don't even realize it.

[NoGravity]

I didn't say anything you just mentioned.

The legal system I was referencing was the innocent until proven guilty, but you're having difficulty putting together anything I say. And your junior high reference is just making you sound like an ass. I have a Bachelor's in Mechanical Engineering, minoring in Aerospace. Please keep your "I'm smarter than you" complex to yourself.

[robotfire]

Ben Rothlisdoucher?Ben Rapelisberger!

[blindlywewander]

I didn't say anything you just mentioned.

The legal system I was referencing was the innocent until proven guilty, but you're having difficulty putting together anything I say. And your junior high reference is just making you sound like an ass. I have a Bachelor's in Mechanical Engineering, minoring in Aerospace. Please keep your "I'm smarter than you" complex to yourself.

:applause:

After reading your posts, I agree with you. I don't look at Ben as a rapist/sexual deviant until he's proven to be such. For one to jump in and start bashing on him is wrong.

[Sweet Sassy Molassy]

My first response was to wait and see. Yours was to defend. You don't know how the legal system works with crimes like these and that said system does not work in a bubble when it comes to sexual crimes.

I won't guess that a junior high class taught you this, but there are a lot of ways to sexually assault someone that go way above "copping a feel", which is a violation. Even if you don't feel that its a violation, imagine some guy walking up to your mom and grabbing her breasts. How would that feel?

Survivor-blaming is what I am very much against. You automatically assumed that it was her fault because she wanted it to happen so that she could get a pay day. That is what you're engaging in and you don't even realize it.
NC21, I've read your posts in this thread, and I can't help to think that you have some sort of agenda to push, your agenda may just be to show that you know more about this subject than a lot of people do ... it may be something bigger than that, I don't know. While I know you're going to deny it, and probably get offended, a lot of your posts in this thread have struck me as a somewhat condescending know-it-all.

I don't think anyone in this thread has specifically stated that the woman in question was a money grubbing whore, they may have stated that a money grubbing whore would find Ben to be an easy target, but that's a completely different statement altogether. While you have a lot of stats and information regarding cases like this, the fact of the matter is that falsification of claims DOES happen, and based on what happened last year with Ben it proves that it CAN happen to someone like him, very easily apparently. I think most are taking an innocent until proven guilty stance, which is the way its supposed to work. Look, if Ben actually did assault this girl, then shame on him, he needs to do some real soul searching and get his life right. But if he didn't he needs to learn from this as Keastman and others have said. No one has blamed the accuser of anything, but it seems like you want people to blame the accused (Big Ben) which is pretty disturbing in my mind.

[OWUeagleMD]

his posts strike me more as someone who is offended by the visceral reaction against suspected victims and in favor of suspected perpetrators than as condescending.

Although, the way certain people hear, digest, and respond to these sorts of allegations, I think a bit of condescension is more than warranted. There are no other crimes that elicit such reactions. Thinking of the implications of such reactions is a bit frightening.

[NewCliche21]

I didn't say anything you just mentioned.

The legal system I was referencing was the innocent until proven guilty, but you're having difficulty putting together anything I say. And your junior high reference is just making you sound like an ass. I have a Bachelor's in Mechanical Engineering, minoring in Aerospace. Please keep your "I'm smarter than you" complex to yourself.

You are taking this way too personally and your hypersensitivity is intriguing.

Sex ed classes start in junior high for most people. Rape is barely discussed and sexual assault and its definitions are discussed even less. I was saying that there is no reason for the common person to know what those things truly are because they are not taught them. It's the same reason that I don't know anything about mechanical engineering. I'm not claiming to be smarter than you at all, and I'm sorry if you take it that way. Believe it or not, my world does not revolve around your emotions.

Re-read what you've written, again. You bet that it is a scheme to make money. You've said that explicitly. That was your first reaction as indicated by it being your first post. I'm saying that that thought process is, while certainly the norm, disturbing. That is all.

Again, I'm sorry if my posts offended you; that was not their intent. Read some of my other ones and talk to some other people on here. If I wanted to go after you, then there wouldn't be any question about it. :cheers:


NC21, I've read your posts in this thread, and I can't help to think that you have some sort of agenda to push, your agenda may just be to show that you know more about this subject than a lot of people do ... it may be something bigger than that, I don't know. While I know you're going to deny it, and probably get offended, a lot of your posts in this thread have struck me as a somewhat condescending know-it-all.

I don't think anyone in this thread has specifically stated that the woman in question was a money grubbing whore, they may have stated that a money grubbing whore would find Ben to be an easy target, but that's a completely different statement altogether. While you have a lot of stats and information regarding cases like this, the fact of the matter is that falsification of claims DOES happen, and based on what happened last year with Ben it proves that it CAN happen to someone like him, very easily apparently. I think most are taking an innocent until proven guilty stance, which is the way its supposed to work. Look, if Ben actually did assault this girl, then shame on him, he needs to do some real soul searching and get his life right. But if he didn't he needs to learn from this as Keastman and others have said. No one has blamed the accuser of anything, but it seems like you want people to blame the accused (Big Ben) which is pretty disturbing in my mind.

I don't think that you read the thread if you said that nobody is blaming the accuser of being, and I'm quoting, a "money-grubbing whore."

I'll let you go through the thread again instead of just the last few posts.


his posts strike me more as someone who is offended by the visceral reaction against suspected victims and in favor of suspected perpetrators than as condescending.

Although, the way certain people hear, digest, and respond to these sorts of allegations, I think a bit of condescension is more than warranted. There are no other crimes that elicit such reactions. Thinking of the implications of such reactions is a bit frightening.

^^^^^^

Gets it.

[Sweet Sassy Molassy]

his posts strike me more as someone who is offended by the visceral reaction against suspected victims and in favor of suspected perpetrators than as condescending.

Although, the way certain people hear, digest, and respond to these sorts of allegations, I think a bit of condescension is more than warranted. There are no other crimes that elicit such reactions. Thinking of the implications of such reactions is a bit frightening.
Well this particular type of crime is a very sensitive one. In some cases it's my word vs. yours, so the reaction can be extreme on both ends, neither being warranted in my opinion and equally as frightening as the other.

I haven't seen anyone in this thread specifically blame the girl, or even try to say that she made it up. I think some have stated that the possibility of her making up such a claim, and the previously falsified allegations against Big Ben makes him an easy target and we should show caution in blaming Ben before we know more of the facts. I agree that its gross neglect to dismiss the claims, as just some chick trying to get some money, but that doesn't mean people should automatically side with her either.

[Sweet Sassy Molassy]

I don't think that you read the thread if you said that nobody is blaming the accuser of being, and I'm quoting, a "money-grubbing whore."

I'll let you go through the thread again instead of just the last few posts

I've read the thread, have been since it started. This is just the first time I've commented in it. Like I said in my previous post, I don't think the posters who made the statement "money grubbing attention whore" were saying that this girl is. They are saying that Ben having allegations brought on him once make him a very easy target. To paraphrase the statement, "If I were a money grubbing attention whore, I'd not only go after an athlete, but an athlete who had such claims placed on him once before." I still don't see anything wrong with that statement, I don't see it as blaming her of anything. It's merely stating that if this person were a "money grubbing attention whore" then who would be easier to attempt to get a charge to stick on than a guy with previous allegations made once before. Especially considering most of the posts in the thread, at the time, were automatically placing guilt upon Ben, since he's been accused twice now.

[OWUeagleMD]

I've read the thread, have been since it started. This is just the first time I've commented in it. Like I said in my previous post, I don't think the posters who made the statement "money grubbing attention whore" were saying that this girl is. They are saying that Ben having allegations brought on him once make him a very easy target. To paraphrase the statement, "If I were a money grubbing attention whore, I'd not only go after an athlete, but an athlete who had such claims placed on him once before." I still don't see anything wrong with that statement, I don't see it as blaming her of anything. It's merely stating that if this person were a "money grubbing attention whore" then who would be easier to attempt to get a charge to stick on than a guy with previous allegations made once before. Especially considering most of the posts in the thread, at the time, were automatically placing guilt upon Ben, since he's been accused twice now.

The issue, to my way of seeing things, is that the sort of cynical speculation you've partaken in above is not practiced in relation to any other crime, but it's the first thing people think of when they hear about sexual assual, and that's why 90 percent of assaults go unreported. Is it true sometimes? Certainly, though I have no idea to what extent.

The fact that the accused is considered innocent until proven guilty does not mean that the accuser is considered guilty of lying until proven innocent.

It's true that sexual assault is often a case of one person's word against the other. I choose not to use that as an excuse to villanize anyone who claims to be a victim of such a crime.

It's odd that rapists are largely considered the most reviled criminals once proven guilty, but they're given more benefit of doubt before that point than any other criminal.

Maybe it's just that I've known a few girls who were victims of assault but decided they couldn't tell anyone, thanks to a cocktail of embarrassment, shame, and fear of being personally slandered. It's just hard for me to ever imagine someone who was a victim of embezzlement or robbery or defamation making the same decision. And yet, the reactions of many people in this thread are precisely what fosters the climate that forces victims into that predicament.

[NewCliche21]

I've read the thread, have been since it started. This is just the first time I've commented in it. Like I said in my previous post, I don't think the posters who made the statement "money grubbing attention whore" were saying that this girl is. They are saying that Ben having allegations brought on him once make him a very easy target. To paraphrase the statement, "If I were a money grubbing attention whore, I'd not only go after an athlete, but an athlete who had such claims placed on him once before." I still don't see anything wrong with that statement, I don't see it as blaming her of anything. It's merely stating that if this person were a "money grubbing attention whore" then who would be easier to attempt to get a charge to stick on than a guy with previous allegations made once before. Especially considering most of the posts in the thread, at the time, were automatically placing guilt upon Ben, since he's been accused twice now.

You're making it pretty difficult to debate when you say that people who are saying something don't mean what they are saying.

In these cases, caution is prudent, and I agree. However, you are paraphrasing other people's statements and changing the quotes around. Diction and syntax matter. The culture of rape in our society is, unfortunately, so deeply woven that you don't even realize what you are doing. Am I calling you or any other poster stupid? Absolutely not. I don't realize how a lot of things in our culture make me a certain way; it's like a fish seeing the water in the fishbowl.

However, for the sake of the sexually vulnerable, a step back needs to be taken. The reality of the situation is that the crime is an epidemic and the cultural norm is to blame the accuser. Sex crimes are all about power, and the fact that Roethlisberger has more power than most is actually being used as a defense.

Take a breath, step back, and look at it.

[Sweet Sassy Molassy]

The issue, to my way of seeing things, is that the sort of cynical speculation you've partaken in above is not practiced in relation to any other crime, but it's the first thing people think of when they hear about sexual assual, and that's why 90 percent of assaults go unreported. Is it true sometimes? Certainly, though I have no idea to what extent.
I don't think I've taken part in any cynical speculation, I'm saying that I can understand the cynicism, especially when many people were immediately jumping to the conclusion that Ben had done it. Asking the question, "Is this person just doing it because they know Ben is an easy target for a quick pay day?" Is just as valid as asking, "Did Ben actually do it?" To accuse either person however is wrong. My statement was that I didn't see the posters who stating that Ben could be an easy target as accusing the girl, merely trying to balance the argument.


The fact that the accused is considered innocent until proven guilty does not mean that the accuser is considered guilty of lying until proven innocent.
I agree with this, and that was essentially the point I was making as well. I really think we're on the same page, but stating our opinions from two differen angles.


It's true that sexual assault is often a case of one person's word against the other. I choose not to use that as an excuse to villanize anyone who claims to be a victim of such a crime.
Again, we're still on the same page.


It's odd that rapists are largely considered the most reviled criminals once proven guilty, but they're given more benefit of doubt before that point than any other criminal.
Because the cases deal with much more than property or money. They deal with breaking a societal and moral code, and it's a very, very, very serious crime. Such a crime will undoubtedly ruin two people's lives at the very least, so you have tread very lightly and be sure not to jump to conclusions because of the sensitivity on both sides. Much like pedophilia cases, this is another type of crime that's extremely serious, and can sometimes be a little too easily believable even when false. So you have to be sure to have what you can consider to be the undoubted truth, before actually condemning either side, because the penalty isn't just some jail time and a record, it's a haunting and debilitating burden.


Maybe it's just that I've known a few girls who were victims of assault but decided they couldn't tell anyone, thanks to a cocktail of embarrassment, shame, and fear of being personally slandered. It's just hard for me to ever imagine someone who was a victim of embezzlement or robbery or defamation making the same decision. And yet, the reactions of many people in this thread are precisely what fosters the climate that forces victims into that predicament.

Trust me, I take this type of thing extremely seriously, rape has affected my life much more than anyone on this board, aside from those who have become very close friends to me, can even imagine. However that doesn't keep me from being fair in my approach, because I know how much it can affect everyone involved.

[NewCliche21]

The issue, to my way of seeing things, is that the sort of cynical speculation you've partaken in above is not practiced in relation to any other crime, but it's the first thing people think of when they hear about sexual assual, and that's why 90 percent of assaults go unreported. Is it true sometimes? Certainly, though I have no idea to what extent.

The fact that the accused is considered innocent until proven guilty does not mean that the accuser is considered guilty of lying until proven innocent.

It's true that sexual assault is often a case of one person's word against the other. I choose not to use that as an excuse to villanize anyone who claims to be a victim of such a crime.

It's odd that rapists are largely considered the most reviled criminals once proven guilty, but they're given more benefit of doubt before that point than any other criminal.

Maybe it's just that I've known a few girls who were victims of assault but decided they couldn't tell anyone, thanks to a cocktail of embarrassment, shame, and fear of being personally slandered. It's just hard for me to ever imagine someone who was a victim of embezzlement or robbery or defamation making the same decision. And yet, the reactions of many people in this thread are precisely what fosters the climate that forces victims into that predicament.

Brilliantly put!

What makes me shake my head the most is that everyone on this board knows multiple survivors of sexual assault. The stat of one in four does not live outside of any poster's world. It's an extension of the "it would never happen to me" defense mechanism. One in four of the girls in your kindergarten class will experience it. Hell, 18% of all sexual assaults happen before the girl is ELEVEN. 90% go unreported, so it's easier to ignore.

The aforementioned cocktail of shame, slander, libel, verbal abuse, and outright interrogation are major contributors to the lack of reports.

Think about it. You're a frequent poster on this board and you just experience a sexual assault. In fact, you were just reading this thread, and you see that people aren't going to believe you anyway because you're a bimbo, you're a slut, you're a money-grubbing whore. You have to go through an extremely invasive exam after experiencing the worst trauma imaginable. You have to tell the same story to stranger after stranger, each of whom are trying to poke holes in your story. You have to be word-for-word and air tight, regardless of the obvious fact that your psyche is still processing the trauma, or they'll vindicate themselves and say that they knew that you were a liar the whole time.

If it's a national case like this, then the worst experience of your life will be talked about 24 hours a day. Sure, there's the completely ineffective rape shield law, but we saw how that worked with Kobe. Everyone who means anything to you already knows that it's you, anyway. Like this girl, you already have to take down your facebook page after the horrible things that are being said to you.

If the police do believe you and it somehow goes to trial, you have $1,000-an-hour lawyers tearing you apart on the stand and in the news.

If there is a conviction, then all that he would have to do is make some sort of apology, enter some form of rehab, and make a few PSAs. Maybe a couple of months of jail time.

For you, though, you have to relive it every day. You will always have your doubters and people berating you, especially any Steelers fan.

Good luck finding anyone to trust or wondering why even your family members give you, even just once, a look of "Are you being honest?" Good luck finding a boyfriend in the first place, and good luck having a healthy sexual relationship for the rest of your life. Good luck finding a job or finishing school. In fact, good luck making it through the day. There is a reason that the suicide rate among survivors of sexual assault is 1,300% (that is not a typo) higher than the general population.

This is all hard to digest and this is why the aforementioned rape culture exists. It's much easier to say that a woman is lying than it is to accept the strong likelihood that she is not.

Assuming every woman is lying because that is what's heard on the news is as illogical as assuming that every plane that flies will crash.

[NewCliche21]

Trust me, I take this type of thing extremely seriously, rape has affected my life much more than anyone on this board, aside from those who have become very close friends to me, can even imagine. However that doesn't keep me from being fair in my approach, because I know how much it can affect everyone involved.

I don't know the extent that it has affected your life or the role that you played in that worst-of-the worst of events, as secondary victimization can be nearly as traumatizing as experiencing it yourself, but I cannot express the inspiration that you provide by being able to discuss the topic so eloquently. There is not a hint of sarcasm in that.

My life is dedicated to the prevention of sex crimes and violence against women as well as the counseling of those who have experienced it and those who have perpetrated it.

[Sweet Sassy Molassy]

You're making it pretty difficult to debate when you say that people who are saying something don't mean what they are saying.

Please reread my post, I said I don't think the posters ... who made certain comments meant it the way you took it. I would say that's pretty easy to debate. I perceived it one way, you perceived it another. I didn't make a definitive statement claiming that there's no way in hell they meant it the way you took it. Just that I didn't see what they said as being so terrible.


In these cases, caution is prudent, and I agree. However, you are paraphrasing other people's statements and changing the quotes around. Diction and syntax matter. The culture of rape in our society is, unfortunately, so deeply woven that you don't even realize what you are doing. Am I calling you or any other poster stupid? Absolutely not. I don't realize how a lot of things in our culture make me a certain way; it's like a fish seeing the water in the fishbowl.

I paraphrased the statement because I didn't think it was necessary to go get the exact quote when anyone can easily find it in this thread. Moreover I think I represented the quote pretty fairly even if I did paraphrase it.


]]
The last chick was full of **** right?

If I were a money grubbing attention whore, the only person I'd accuse of rape before an athlete is an athlete who's already been accused of rape.

I'll side with Big Ben until this settles down.

I think I represented his quote pretty fairly. Had he said, "This girl is nothing but another money grubbing attention whore going after Ben because he's an easy target." I'd be right on-board with you, it's a terrible accusation to make.

But looking at it, the way I read it was, he was reminding everyone that the last girl was lying in her case against Ben, and then stating that if he were trying to get some money out of someone the type of person he'd go after (if he were a woman). Then stating that his stance would be that Ben is innocent until proven otherwise. It's simply stating that this person could be lying, and that we shouldn't immediately jump to conclusions, that's how I read it.


However, for the sake of the sexually vulnerable, a step back needs to be taken. The reality of the situation is that the crime is an epidemic and the cultural norm is to blame the accuser. Sex crimes are all about power, and the fact that Roethlisberger has more power than most is actually being used as a defense.
You're right about that, and I agree. However just because Ben has more power than most doesn't mean that it can't be used against him nor does it mean that he's guilty. In-fact, I'd even argue that he has a little less power in this case because it's the second time he's been accused of such a thing and as someone earlier in the thread stated "Twice is a trend."


Take a breath, step back, and look at it.
I think that's a valid suggestion for everyone.

[darklight1216]

You know... if 90% are unreported and therefore no convictions are made, why does everyone say they happened? I mean, we're supposed to stick with the innocentil until proven thing and all.

In other news, this new incident could be used as evidence in the Nevada case.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/07/lawyer-for-roethlisbergers-nevada-accuser-will-monitor-new-case-closely/
even though anything Roethlisberger did or didn't do in Georgia or anywhere else doesn't change what did or didn't occur in Nevada, the new incident could be used to help convince a jury that the plaintiff in the Nevada case is telling the truth

[kiingspadee]

Oh great - not aben

[WALEOVECHKIN]

Some news is leaking out including pics of the accuser. Big Ben apparently had a lot to drink (his drink of choice: sex on the beach lol). Deadspin has a solid account from the bartenders...

[Big Blue Joe]

his posts strike me more as someone who is offended by the visceral reaction against suspected victims and in favor of suspected perpetrators than as condescending.

Although, the way certain people hear, digest, and respond to these sorts of allegations, I think a bit of condescension is more than warranted. There are no other crimes that elicit such reactions. Thinking of the implications of such reactions is a bit frightening.False rape accusations happen at a much higher rate than other crimes. In 1996, the FBI reported it to be 4 times larger than the rate of unfounded accusations for the average crime.


Eight percent of forcible rape complaints in 1996 were “unfounded,” while the average for all Index crimes was 2 percent.
Link (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/Cius_97/96CRIME/96crime2.pdf)

I've also seen sources that put the number of false rape charges at much higher than 8%:


"Every year since 1989, in about 25 percent of the sexual assault cases referred to the FBI where results could be obtained, the primary suspect has been excluded by forensic DNA testing. Specifically, FBI officials report that out of roughly 10,000 sexual assault cases since 1989, about 2,000 tests have been inconclusive, about 2,000 tests have excluded the primary suspect, and about 6,000 have "matched" or included the primary suspect."
Link (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,194032,00.html)

[NewCliche21]

False rape accusations happen at a much higher rate than other crimes. In 1996, the FBI reported it to be 4 times larger than the rate of unfounded accusations for the average crime.


Link (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/Cius_97/96CRIME/96crime2.pdf)

It sounds like you're saying that eight percent of the crimes, circa 1996 mind you, should disqualify the other 92 percent.

Like I said, should we assume that every plane that takes off will crash?

[NewCliche21]

False rape accusations happen at a much higher rate than other crimes. In 1996, the FBI reported it to be 4 times larger than the rate of unfounded accusations for the average crime.


Link (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/Cius_97/96CRIME/96crime2.pdf)

I've also seen sources that put the number of false rape charges at much higher than 8%:


Link (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,194032,00.html)

When it comes to the latter, I think that you should go back and look at what I talked about regarding the procurement of biological evidence.

[NewCliche21]

You know... if 90% are unreported and therefore no convictions are made, why does everyone say they happened? I mean, we're supposed to stick with the innocentil until proven thing and all.

In other news, this new incident could be used as evidence in the Nevada case.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/07/lawyer-for-roethlisbergers-nevada-accuser-will-monitor-new-case-closely/
even though anything Roethlisberger did or didn't do in Georgia or anywhere else doesn't change what did or didn't occur in Nevada, the new incident could be used to help convince a jury that the plaintiff in the Nevada case is telling the truth

The results come from numerous studies, interviews, and surveys conducted with the women who do not want to come forward due to exactly what I have, at length, explained.


Some news is leaking out including pics of the accuser. Big Ben apparently had a lot to drink (his drink of choice: sex on the beach lol). Deadspin has a solid account from the bartenders...

This is what I am talking about. The treatment of those who report the crime is absolutely horrible.

[Big Blue Joe]

Like I said, should we assume that every plane that takes off will crash?1 out every 1.4 million flights in the Western world have some kind of accident.
Link (http://www.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/02/22/aviation.safety.report/index.html)

Going by the FBI statistics, there would be 112,000 unfounded complaints in the same number of rape accusations.

[NewCliche21]

1 out every 1.4 million flights in the Western world have some kind of accident.
Link (http://www.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/02/22/aviation.safety.report/index.html)

Going by the FBI statistics, there would be 112,000 unfounded complaints in the same number of rape accusations.

It is an analogy.

You are still putting the legitimate survivors on trial because of the few who have lied.

I am confused by your strong desire to do so.

One in four. Something tells me that if it were your grandmother, mother, aunt, girlfriend, or sister, then you would not be acting the way that you are. Depersonalization is a very common defense mechanism, but defense mechanisms only cope with reality; they do not change reality.

[Big Blue Joe]

You are still putting the legitimate survivors on trial because of the few who have lied.

I am confused by your strong desire to do so.I'm not putting anyone on trial. I have no opinion on this case other than to be glad the Giants chose Eli over this moron. I'm just pointing out that there is a very good reason why people treat rape charges with more skepticism than other crimes.

[OWUeagleMD]

I'm not putting anyone on trial. I'm just pointing out that there is a very good reason why people treat rape charges with more skepticism than other crimes.

And that "very good reason" directly contributes (some might say creates) the climate that shames victims into silence and allows perpetrators amnesty.

Personally, I'd rather focus on the 92 percent who tell the truth than the 8 percent who lie. Maybe then a few more cases would be reported and a few more rapists would go to jail.

[Big Blue Joe]

And that "very good reason" directly contributes (some might say creates) the climate that shames victims into silence and allows perpetrators amnesty.Of course it does. Women who lie about being raped is a major problem. They aren't doing anyone any favors. Certainly not the real victims of rape. A case like William McCaffrey's isn't going to help the chances of the woman in this one.
Woman who falsely accused man of rape, sending him to prison for 4 years, gets 1-3 years jail (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2010/02/23/2010-02-23_woman_who_falsely_accused_man_of_rape_sending_h im_to_prison_for_4_years_gets_13_.html)


Personally, I'd rather focus on the 92 percent who tell the truth than the 8 percent who lie. Maybe then a few more cases would be reported and a few more rapists would go to jail.I'd rather have more rapists go to jail AND fewer innocent victims of false accusations sent to prison. Also, 92% is probably an overly generous estimate of the number of women who told the truth. A case like the one I linked above likely would not have been counted in the statistics.

[NewCliche21]

Of course it does. Women who lie about being raped is a major problem. They aren't doing anyone any favors. Certainly not the real victims of rape. A case like William McCaffrey's isn't going to help the chances of the woman in this one.
Woman who falsely accused man of rape, sending him to prison for 4 years, gets 1-3 years jail (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2010/02/23/2010-02-23_woman_who_falsely_accused_man_of_rape_sending_h im_to_prison_for_4_years_gets_13_.html)

I'd rather have more rapists go to jail AND fewer innocent victims of false accusations sent to prison. Also, 92% is probably an overly generous estimate of the number of women who told the truth. A case like the one I linked above likely would not have been counted in the statistics.

You're pointing to one case that was publicized. I know of fifteen cases off of the top of my head that weren't reported. I know of ten that were reported and no charges were ever pressed. None of those 25 were part of any of your statistics.

And before you ask where I got it from: I have my LGSW. Through my volunteer work, internships, research, pro-bono social work, and actual employment, I see first-hand what can't even be printed in a newspaper.

I would like to see the inclusion criteria for a false report. Would recanting a report, as often happens due to the pressures that OWU and I have explained in depth, count as a false accusation? If so, then the statistics are fatally flawed.

Nobody wants anyone who is innocent to go to jail. Honestly, though, I'd also rather not have your sister/girlfriend/mother experience a rape by someone who was "falsely accused."

[darklight1216]

The results come from numerous studies, interviews, and surveys conducted with the women who do not want to come forward due to exactly what I have, at length, explained.



This is what I am talking about. The treatment of those who report the crime is absolutely horrible.
So, in other words, 90% of alleged rapes go unreported.

[Hubbs]

Some news is leaking out including pics of the accuser. Big Ben apparently had a lot to drink (his drink of choice: sex on the beach lol). Deadspin has a solid account from the bartenders...

Huh? I saw a TMZ report that said he only had one beer.

And where are these pics?

[NewCliche21]

So, in other words, 90% of alleged rapes go unreported.

No, 90% of rapes go unreported. Studies give way for a margin of error. 90% is on the low end.

I do, however, find your constant rushing to the defense of accused rapists to be interesting.

Again, one in four. Picked which one of your loved ones you'd like to call a liar yet?

[BleedinBurgNGold]

Man, I hope for his sake this is fake. If it is his reputation will be ruined. If it's true his life is ruined.
More importantly if it is true I feel horrible for the woman involved.
He has Millions of Dollars and SB rings and he's bangin out random chicks in a Nightclub Restroom? That dude has NO class.

[Destino]

1 out every 1.4 million flights in the Western world have some kind of accident.
Link (http://www.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/02/22/aviation.safety.report/index.html)

Going by the FBI statistics, there would be 112,000 unfounded complaints in the same number of rape accusations.

So 8% of rape accusations are unfounded? Seems like 92% is a hell of a majority.

[OWUeagleMD]

So, in other words, 90% of alleged rapes go unreported.

Let's say the statistic overshoots actual rapes at a rate of two to one. It doesn't, but let's pretend it does. You seem hung up on the authenticity of the number, even though there is, to my knowledge, very little in the way of evidence to support your distrust with the medical professionals that arrived at the number.

So in this extremely generous case, 45% of rapes go unreported. Would that be a problem to you, if one in two women who was raped was afraid to say anything, rather than nine in 10?

[NoGravity]

No, 90% of rapes go unreported. Studies give way for a margin of error. 90% is on the low end.

I do, however, find your constant rushing to the defense of accused rapists to be interesting.

Again, one in four. Picked which one of your loved ones you'd like to call a liar yet?

90 percent of rapes go unreported? Haha. I'd like to see what variables are put in this study, because it is not logical whatsoever. There is no way to find this number.

Internet superiority syndrome surely is promoting your logic.
;)

[darklight1216]

No, 90% of rapes go unreported. Studies give way for a margin of error. 90% is on the low end.

I do, however, find your constant rushing to the defense of accused rapists to be interesting.

Again, one in four. Picked which one of your loved ones you'd like to call a liar yet?
Show me this constant rushing. I think you have me confused with another poster.


Let's say the statistic overshoots actual rapes at a rate of two to one. It doesn't, but let's pretend it does. You seem hung up on the authenticity of the number, even though there is, to my knowledge, very little in the way of evidence to support your distrust with the medical professionals that arrived at the number.

So in this extremely generous case, 45% of rapes go unreported. Would that be a problem to you, if one in two women who was raped was afraid to say anything, rather than nine in 10?
Actually I'm hung up on the assumption that every woman is telling the truth.

Were these studies actually conducted by doctors or nurses who carefully examined a large number of American women for sexual assault or was it, for instance an internet poll or something like that?

Surely you statisticians know that most rapes are perpetrated by someone close to the victim. So if we are to believe these stats then we must assume that there are millions of brothers, fathers, husbands, and boyfriends victimizing the women in their lives. I don't think it's fair to automatically believe one side of the story when there's no proof or even an official accusation.

Anyways back to Big Jen...

Espn didn't wast much time reporting this time.

I wonder if this is going to have next to no impact on next season like last time.

[sideshow24]

I clicked on the ATN. Then I clicked on a thread in ATN. How did I end up in the Tailgate?

[darklight1216]

I clicked on the ATN. Then I clicked on a thread in ATN. How did I end up in the Tailgate?
The threads might have been merged.

[OWUeagleMD]

Actually I'm hung up on the assumption that every woman is telling the truth.


Right, which is why I granted you the assumption that half of all women are lying. You baselessly called into question the validity of the collection of studies on which most professionals base their knowledge, and, without resistance, I've granted you that it is by far the most methodologically flawed collection of studies in existence, misrepresenting reality not by the standard margin of error of 3 percent, but instead by a whopping 50 percent.

[Highway66]

];7345508']The last chick was full of **** right?

If I were a money grubbing attention whore, the only person I'd accuse of rape before an athlete is an athlete who's already been accused of rape.

I'll side with Big Ben until this settles down.

I have to agree... chick is out with nfl star in a vip room of a club.. alterior motives possibly... But ben needs to watch himself

[Jeff in D.C.]

Picture of the accuser..

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c202/Gracelander/crosbybaby.jpg

:ols: :ols: :ols: :ols: :ols: :ols: :ols: :ols: :ols:

[Jeff in D.C.]

If these accusations are lies, the woman should do time.

No question, but at the same time it would be another case of him putting himself in a bad position because he got with some random chick who he couldn't trust. Not saying that he shouldn't go out anymore, but if he wasn't getting with random girls all the time he wouldn't be putting himself in a position to be accused in the first place.

[darklight1216]

How many accusations would it take before the league takes action?

[DWinzit]

Roethlisberger hires lawyer who defended Ray Lewis

Posted by Mike Florio on March 8, 2010 7:28 AM ET
More than a decade ago, Ravens linebacker Ray Lewis was accused or murder in Georgia. He hired Ed Garland to handle the case. Eventually, the worst of the charges against Lewis were dropped, and he pleaded guilty to obstruction of justice (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/news/2000/06/04/lewis_agreement/).

Now, Garland will be asked to help another high-profile NFL player.

Per a league source, Garland has been hired to represent the interests of Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger in the sexual assault investigation that is still unfolding in Milledgeville, Georgia. Roethlisberger has not yet been charged.

Roethlisberger was interviewed at the scene by authorities, and he was then told that he was free to leave. He returned to Pittsburgh on Friday. Authorities have said that he could be interviewed again.

Even though no charges have been filed, there surely has been plenty of work to do for Garland and other lawyers who represent Roethlisberger. They have interviewed all of the key witnesses, and they most likely have been in close communication with authorities.

Their initial goal will be to persuade investigators that charges should not be filed. In matters of this nature, that's the best possible outcome that can be achieved.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/08/roethlisberger-hires-lawyer-who-defended-ray-lewis/

[Tweedr01]

Did that first post say Ben Roethlisberger was likable?

He's about as likable as Greg Paulus.

Hey now, people dislike Paulus cuz he went to Duke, and nobody likes Duke

[Boss_Hogg]

if convicted, he will have to register as a sex offender.

[Merlin Emrys]

Rather than conjecturing either way, you guys need to wait until the material evidence and witness statements come out before you formulate an opinion either way. People should neither dismiss the woman as a lier or castrate Big Dumb Ben. To my knowledge no one on ES is a cop working the case or were present at the alleged time. You really don't have any idea what did or did not occur.

[Clutch03]

I almost did a search for the Mike Vick thread when he was first accused of dog fighting/killing, just to compare the reactions. But then I remembered society loves dogs ... hates women. Very disturbing.

Oh and it only took the second accusation for ESPN to run the story. Hmmm ... Vick's story was all over ESPN probably before TMZ.

[Llevron]

I almost did a search for the Mike Vick thread when he was first accused of dog fighting/killing, just to compare the reactions. But then I remembered society loves dogs ... hates women. Very disturbing.

Oh and it only took the second accusation for ESPN to run the story. Hmmm ... Vick's story was all over ESPN probably before TMZ.

Trust, society loves women too. What they hate, however, is something all together different. Its still pretty disturbing though I will give you that.

[Clutch03]

Trust, society loves women too. What they hate, however, is something all together different. Its still pretty disturbing though I will give you that.

I hear you loud and clear.

[Hubbs]

Picture of the accuser..

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

That's one of the funniest Photoshops I've seen in a long time.

[Hiro]

Found this article interesting and I highly agree:

The fact that police in Georgia want to talk with him and other witnesses to the alleged incident in the next two to three days indicate this is something that, at the very least, has potential to grow longer legs. Then there's that first sentence of a three-sentence statement, released Monday by Pittsburgh Steelers (http://www.nfl.com/teams/pittsburghsteelers/profile?team=PIT) president Art Rooney II: "All of us in the Steelers family are concerned about the recent incident involving Ben Roethlisberger in Georgia." The rest of what he said was pretty standard under such circumstances: "We cannot comment on any of the specifics until law enforcement's investigation is concluded. Certainly, we will continue to closely monitor the situation."
Saying the Steelers family is concerned is saying plenty. There can be no denying that the alleged incident takes on a higher degree of meaning for the team and the NFL in the wake of another alleged incident involving Roethlisberger and a former female employee of a Lake Tahoe hotel and casino during his appearance at a golf tournament in 2008.
At the very least, Roethlisberger is guilty of poor judgment.
It is one thing to play football with reckless abandon. That approach has gone a long way toward allowing Roethlisberger and many of his Steelers teammates to own two Super Bowl rings.
For whatever reason, Big Ben insists on staying on a collision course with his franchise's long history of doing things the right way and with a commissioner who has a well-established low tolerance for bad behavior. Go back to his infamous motorcycle wreck. He thought so little of protecting the body that allows him to earn millions of dollars and rank among the very best at his position that he declined to wear a helmet.
Or, perhaps it would be more accurate to say that he didn't think.
Bar-hopping with friends in a college town isn't a crime. Nor is being out at 2 a.m. Nor is being a single, 28-year-old male allegedly in a club where much younger college students are typically found partying on a Thursday night.
But when you're Ben Roethlisberger, mega-star professional athlete/celebrity, you'd be wise to feel compelled to exercise greater caution than everyone else around you, unless your particular group happens to include any other mega-star professional athletes/celebrities. If you have to be in a club at that hour, you should be very aware of your surroundings and for the potential for something to happen that, at a minimum, could lead to considerable embarrassment.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d816d4689&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

Putting aside whether or not Roethlisberger is guilty or not, the fact remains is that his lack of judgment and his behaviors have put him in the position to get accused like this. And remember, accusations of a crime as heinous as sexual assault can stick to you and hurt your reputation. Even if you're found innocent, the stigma will remain and people will be wondering if you got away with it or not.

There are plenty of unmarried QB's around the league that are roughly about Ben's age, yet he's been the only one in recent memory of that group (typically the most sought after group by gold diggers) who has been accused of this. While I am withholding judgment on him, the fact is that he has to change his lifestyle in order to avoid accusations such as these.

[darklight1216]

Ben's sponsors are concerned.


"It's just very concerning," PLB Sports president and CEO Ty Ballou told McCarthy. ""Ben is a single guy. He has every right to be out doing what he's doing. But when you're the quarterback of any team, especially the Steelers, you have to take extra measures. . . . Obviously, this is very concerning for all parties. This is the second time this has come out. . . .

"It's troubling," Ballou added. "You want the offseason to be quiet. You have to put yourself in a good positions. And Ben unfortunately hasn't. You even go back to the motorcycle accident. Whatever happened down there [in Georgia], I hope this will truly be the last time something like this happens. Ben's a good person. He does a lot for charity. But for his career, his fans and his family, you have to make good decisions."

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/steelers/2010-03-08-roethlisberger-image_N.htm

[ressecup1987]

Yeah, kinda puts them in an awkward position. Now if they report this story, they have to acknowledge the previous incident, which they didn't report. They made their bed...

I don't want to pull out the race card but when Kobe Bryant went through all of this... it was instantly news on EVERY channel. Why is this different for Ben considering this is his SECOND time being accused?

[OWUeagleMD]

I don't want to pull out the race card but when Kobe Bryant went through all of this... it was instantly news on EVERY channel. Why is this different for Ben considering this is his SECOND time being accused?

And there are considerably more people concerned with the "prevalence of women who lie about being raped" with Big Ben than there ever were with Kobe.

[Big Blue Joe]

And there are considerably more people concerned with the "prevalence of women who lie about being raped" with Big Ben than there ever were with Kobe.There are? I don't remember it that way.

[Hiro]

There are? I don't remember it that way. I don't consider the two different in this case. The first time around for Ben, it was extremely suspicious because of the fact that the woman came out with the suit, supposedly a year after she was attacked by him. There wasn't a police report filed, it was simply a lawsuit if I remember correctly.

With this latest case, everybody is jumping on Ben. Regardless of it the police believe he did it or not (not determined as of yet) everybody and their mother is speaking against Ben because of his lifestyle choices. Notice that Pittsburgh has yet to come out in support of Ben in this recent case? Everybody is against him right now.

[darklight1216]

I don't want to pull out the race card but when Kobe Bryant went through all of this... it was instantly news on EVERY channel. Why is this different for Ben considering this is his SECOND time being accused?
It's several years later and now we're too worried about pit bulls to care about people.

Also, wasn't Kobe not exactly the most well liked individual prior that?

[Clutch03]

I don't want to pull out the race card but when Kobe Bryant went through all of this... it was instantly news on EVERY channel. Why is this different for Ben considering this is his SECOND time being accused?


And there are considerably more people concerned with the "prevalence of women who lie about being raped" with Big Ben than there ever were with Kobe.

Definitely noticed both of these cases. Again very disturbing.

[NewCliche21]

I wish that you guys would look things up regarding the trauma process. I feel like so many people just, and please do NOT take this as an argument, simply don't know what they're talking about.

They're saying that women should react this way, that it should be reported at this time, that this evidence should be present, etc. It just doesn't work that way, and even when it does, the mind that has experienced trauma is very fickle.

Would you put someone, September 12, 2001, who just lost a family member the previous day at the Pentagon or World Trade Center "on trial" for life insurance fraud because the "family member" didn't exist? There were many, many cases of that.

Of course you wouldn't. However, you'd do the the equivalent for a woman just because someone else at some point in time has lied. That is what baffles me.

[darklight1216]

Isn't it strange that TMZ knows everything about this case (and the last one, for that mattera)? They've even got the name and a picture of the accuser.


Ben Roethlisberger has been asked to fork over a DNA sample to cops as part of the investigation into accusations that the NFL star sexually assaulted a 20-year-old woman.

The Milledgeville Police Department claim they made the request to Ben's legal team and believe Roethlisberger will comply.

Ben's lawyer has already stated that his client is "innocent of any crime."

The Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback has already spoken to police about the alleged incident at the Capital City nightclub in Georgia -- but cops say they want to speak with him again sometime this week.


Read more: http://www.tmz.com/tag/ben+roethlisberger/#ixzz0hl3OdKQd

[NewCliche21]

Isn't it strange that TMZ knows everything about this case (and the last one, for that mattera)? They've even got the name and a picture of the accuser.



Read more: http://www.tmz.com/tag/ben+roethlisberger/#ixzz0hl3OdKQd

It's disgusting that they're releasing any of that information.

There are LAWS against that, but those who report sexual assault or rape are automatically demonized and have their rights stripped away, again.

It's truly pathetic.

[NoGravity]

It's disgusting that they're releasing any of that information.

There are LAWS against that, but those who report sexual assault or rape are automatically demonized and have their rights stripped away, again.

It's truly pathetic.

Laws against posting a picture of someone who hasn't pressed any charges for an alleged crime? Not that I know of, bro.

[darklight1216]

It's disgusting that they're releasing any of that information.

There are LAWS against that, but those who report sexual assault or rape are automatically demonized and have their rights stripped away, again.

It's truly pathetic.
They haven't released the name or picture of the accuser. They just said that they have it.



Ben Roethlisberger had his arm around his accuser before the alleged assault ... and she had a big grin as she wrapped her arms around him. No doubt Ben's lawyer -- rightly or wrongly -- will make hay of this.

We now know the accuser's identity -- we will not post the picture in this story. A photo of the two taken at Capital City bar in Milledgeville, Georgia shortly before the alleged incident shows a cozy scene -- at least at that moment in time.

Of course, a photo never tells the whole story, and the mood could have darkened in an instant. Police sources tell TMZ the woman claims Roethlisberger sexually assaulted her in the women's bathroom.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2010/03/08/ben-roethlisberger-photographed-accuser-sexual-assault-police-georgia-capital-city#ixzz0hnKoOVA3 (http://www.tmz.com/2010/03/08/ben-roethlisberger-photographed-accuser-sexual-assault-police-georgia-capital-city#ixzz0hnKoOVA3)

In addition, SportingNews believes that the best thing for Ben would be to settle this case out of court.

During a Monday press conference, authorities in Milledgeville acknowledged that the woman accusing Roethlisberger of sexual assault has hired a lawyer. This means that, at some point, she'll sue the two-time Super Bowl-winning signal-caller.

So the best approach would be for Roethlisberger's lawyers to commence a dialogue with the alleged victim's lawyer and settle the case -- now. Surely, there's a number north of $100,000 and south of $1 million that she'd take to waive any civil claims and drop her charges. Like Kobe Bryant's accuser nearly seven years ago, nothing takes the steam out of a criminal prosecution faster than a civil settlement.

The settlement needs to happen soon, before a decision is made to charge Roethlisberger with sexual assault. With a completely confidential settlement that entails an agreement to drop the charges, everyone can move on — and Roethslisberger can continue his career without having to deal with a civil trial like the one he faces in Nevada, or a criminal trial that could, in theory, put him in jail.
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2010-03-10/steelers-qb-ben-roethlisberger-should-settle-his-new-accuser

A gold digger would likely be persuaded by such an offer, but a victim might not... Unless she realized the low likelihood of him being punished and wanted to get something for her "trouble," so to speak.

[NewCliche21]

Laws against posting a picture of someone who hasn't pressed any charges for an alleged crime? Not that I know of, bro.

All right, look. You don't know much about this subject, and that's clear. It's also okay. However, don't go around trying to be condescending because you're not making yourself look good.

Go look up "rape shield law" and get back to me.

Or "tact."

I'm sorry if I sound short, but I'm at work where, you know, I deal with this all day. It becomes very frustrating that people can try to be such smartasses about such an extremely important topic that more than likely impacts them without even knowing it.

[NewCliche21]

They haven't released the name or picture of the accuser. They just said that they have it.


Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2010/03/08/ben-roethlisberger-photographed-accuser-sexual-assault-police-georgia-capital-city#ixzz0hnKoOVA3 (http://www.tmz.com/2010/03/08/ben-roethlisberger-photographed-accuser-sexual-assault-police-georgia-capital-city#ixzz0hnKoOVA3)

In addition, SportingNews believes that the best thing for Ben would be to settle this case out of court.

During a Monday press conference, authorities in Milledgeville acknowledged that the woman accusing Roethlisberger of sexual assault has hired a lawyer. This means that, at some point, she'll sue the two-time Super Bowl-winning signal-caller.

So the best approach would be for Roethlisberger's lawyers to commence a dialogue with the alleged victim's lawyer and settle the case -- now. Surely, there's a number north of $100,000 and south of $1 million that she'd take to waive any civil claims and drop her charges. Like Kobe Bryant's accuser nearly seven years ago, nothing takes the steam out of a criminal prosecution faster than a civil settlement.

The settlement needs to happen soon, before a decision is made to charge Roethlisberger with sexual assault. With a completely confidential settlement that entails an agreement to drop the charges, everyone can move on — and Roethslisberger can continue his career without having to deal with a civil trial like the one he faces in Nevada, or a criminal trial that could, in theory, put him in jail.
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2010-03-10/steelers-qb-ben-roethlisberger-should-settle-his-new-accuser

A gold digger would likely be persuaded by such an offer, but a victim might not... Unless she realized the low likelihood of him being punished and wanted to get something for her "trouble," so to speak.

Ah, I didn't actually click the story. Thanks for the correction. As long as it hasn't been released, that's good. However, the fact that they GOT that information is distubring.

It's funny that if she takes money, then she is a gold digger. I'm guessing that Nicole Brown Simpson's family is a bunch of gold diggers then? I mean, after all, O.J. didn't do it, right?

[darklight1216]

Ah, I didn't actually click the story. Thanks for the correction. As long as it hasn't been released, that's good. However, the fact that they GOT that information is distubring.

It's funny that if she takes money, then she is a gold digger. I'm guessing that Nicole Brown Simpson's family is a bunch of gold diggers then? I mean, after all, O.J. didn't do it, right?
I don't think it's surprising that they know. There were, apparantly, lots of people at the location, several people with the accuser; surely someone is willing to talk to a reporter or posted something on facebook or whatever.

I believe I said that she could be a gold digger OR a victim. And yeah, there's crazy, or attention hungry, or just a liar, etc as other options, but I figured the first two are more likely. Once again: a gold digger might be pursuaded, by you know, money; but a victim can be paid off as well.

[NewCliche21]

I don't think it's surprising that they know. There were, apparantly, lots of people at the location, several people with the accuser; surely someone is willing to talk to a reporter or posted something on facebook or whatever.

I believe I said that she could be a gold digger OR a victim. And yeah, there's crazy, or attention hungry, or just a liar, etc as other options, but I figured the first two are more likely.

Or she could just be doing what she can to cope with it. Or she could be wanting an apology in order to help her in the healing process. Or she could want to bring him to justice. Or she could be trying to prevent further sex crimes. Or she could be publicizing the existence and perpetuation of the crimes.

But, of course, you think that she's either a survivor or a plethora of other negative things. That shows exactly your opinion of her without knowing a damned thing. THAT is your assumption. She's either a survivor or crazy, attention-hungry, a liar, or a gold digger. Do you see what's wrong with that mindset?

[darklight1216]

Or she could just be doing what she can to cope with it. Or she could be wanting an apology in order to help her in the healing process. Or she could want to bring him to justice. Or she could be trying to prevent further sex crimes. Or she could be publicizing the existence and perpetuation of the crimes.

But, of course, you think that she's either a survivor or a plethora of other negative things. That shows exactly your opinion of her without knowing a thing. THAT is your assumption. She's either a survivor or crazy, attention-hungry, a liar, or a gold digger. Do you see what's wrong with that mindset?
Sounds like all of the first paragraph fits under the "victim" category.

Yeah, I do think she's either telling the truth or lying for one reason or another, and I don't see anything wrong with thinking that. Maybe you think that there's some reason why it's okay to lie about this, but I think she's either been assaulted or is falsely accusing Jen.

Also, you're right in saying that I don't know exactly what happened. I am speculating. Do you know exactly what went down? If you weren't there that night, you don't know either.

PFT has some news that they basically copied from TMZ who seems to know everything. There might be something to my Facebook theory.


Our friends at TMZ report that police in Milledgeville have seized security camera footage from the nightclub where the sexual assault allegedly occurred.

Per the report, multiple cameras were placed in several locations throughout the club. Roethlisberger supposedly can be identified in some of the footage.

Meanwhile, TMZ also reports that some comments posted on Facebook and Twitter by the accuser's sorority sisters have been removed, at the direct instruction of the sorority to which the women belong. We'd heard, admittedly second hand, that some of the messages might have actually indicated that Roethlisberger didn't do what he allegedly did.

Finally, the second set of sexual assault allegations has created a critical mass of sorts regarding the perception that Roethlisberger is a jerk. Talk radio in Pittsburgh has been flooded with accounts of boorish behavior by Big Ben, and Colin Cowherd of ESPN Radio pointed out during his Tuesday show that there are many in the media who have stories to share about Roethlisberger being a butthole.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/10/roethlisberger-investigation-keeps-moving/

[Larry Brown #43]

I don't want to pull out the race card but when Kobe Bryant went through all of this... it was instantly news on EVERY channel. Why is this different for Ben considering this is his SECOND time being accused?

A couple things here. First off, Ben's first incident WAS widely reported--by pretty much every one except ESPN. The belief by many was that ESPN was protecting its own interests by not reporting the story, because Ben was involved with some ESPN-owned sports-themed reality show at the time.

I have no idea if the reality show ever aired, or what it's about, but there apparently was a conflict of interest there for ESPN. And the non-reporting of the story made ESPN look bad, and they know it.

This second Ben incident has been reported everywhere, including ESPN.

But also keep in mind that Ben is nowhere near the star that Kobe is. Non-sports fans know who Kobe Bryant is. Non-sports fans generally don't know who Ben Roethlisberger is. That clearly would account for some disparity in reporting too.

[darklight1216]

Friends in high places:


A Pittsburgh-area police officer and a Pennsylvania state trooper were among Ben Roethlisberger's posse on the night he was accused of sexual assault.

A lawyer for one of the officers told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette that his client is close friends with Roethlisberger, and was in Georgia with him in that capacity.

Eyewitnesses have described larger bouncer-type friends protecting Roethlisberger at times while he partied. Surprisingly, neither man has been contacted by Georgia authorities yet, indicating that the investigation is going slowly.

The officer's lawyer said both officers were "completely sober" on the night in question and will cooperate with the investigation.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/10/roethlisbergers-crew-included-officers/

[DexterSackMachine]

Well known and rich athletes are targets for stuff like this. I think it's ridiculous for Ben to put himself in this situation again, regardless of how guilty or not he is this time. The NFL is a small time window for him, he has the rest of his life to carouse.

[NewCliche21]

Sounds like all of the first paragraph fits under the "victim" category.

Yeah, I do think she's either telling the truth or lying for one reason or another, and I don't see anything wrong with thinking that. Maybe you think that there's some reason why it's okay to lie about this, but I think she's either been assaulted or is falsely accusing Jen.

Also, you're right in saying that I don't know exactly what happened. I am speculating. Do you know exactly what went down? If you weren't there that night, you don't know either.

PFT has some news that they basically copied from TMZ who seems to know everything. There might be something to my Facebook theory.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/10/roethlisberger-investigation-keeps-moving/

You're entitled to your opinion. At least you're keeping up with the case.

I do, however, know that the vast majority of reports are not lies. I'm waiting for someone to tell me if they would assume that someone was lying about losing a family member on 9/11. I'm also waiting for someone to tell me which of their relatives/loved ones that they would assume is lying when she tells you that she has experienced, because believe me, one or more of them have and because people make it as much of a torture to disclose as it was to go through, you'll never know. Hope that you all can sleep knowing that you're adding to the problem. :thumbsup:

[Soup]

I know its a serious matter but bengal, raven and brown fans are calling him rapeaburger. So creative :ols:, I can imagine the posters

[WALEOVECHKIN]

Ben Roethlisberger told police that he never had sex with his accuser, but admitted she bumped her head after the two made "contact" in the bathroom -- this according to a new report.

KDKA in Pittsburgh claims they spoke with insiders who claim Ben told Milledgeville police that the woman "slipped and fell" after an incident in the bathroom at the Capital City nightclub.

According to the report, the woman suffered injuries to her head.

They also took DNA from Big Ben so if there was any funny business the police will know in a month or so

[NewCliche21]

Ben Roethlisberger told police that he never had sex with his accuser, but admitted she bumped her head after the two made "contact" in the bathroom -- this according to a new report.

KDKA in Pittsburgh claims they spoke with insiders who claim Ben told Milledgeville police that the woman "slipped and fell" after an incident in the bathroom at the Capital City nightclub.

According to the report, the woman suffered injuries to her head.

They also took DNA from Big Ben so if there was any funny business the police will know in a month or so

Please read the posts that I made on DNA evidence to dispel that type of thinking. Thanks! :)

[Larry Brown #43]

Ben Roethlisberger told police that he never had sex with his accuser, but admitted she bumped her head after the two made "contact" in the bathroom -- this according to a new report.

KDKA in Pittsburgh claims they spoke with insiders who claim Ben told Milledgeville police that the woman "slipped and fell" after an incident in the bathroom at the Capital City nightclub.

According to the report, the woman suffered injuries to her head.

They also took DNA from Big Ben so if there was any funny business the police will know in a month or so

Well, KDKA is saying something completely different here:

Report: Roethlisberger admitted to having "sexual contact" with alleged victim
Posted by Mike Florio on March 10, 2010 7:02 PM ET

As the investigation regarding the sexual assault allegations against Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger continues, KDKA-TV in Pittsburgh reports that Roethlisberger has conceded having "sexual contact" with the woman who claims sexual assault, but that there was no intercourse.

The admission apparently came during an interview of Roethlisberger conducted at the scene.

Per the report, Roethlisberger claims that the woman fell and injured her head after the incident. She then went to a hospital and alleged that she was sexually assaulted.

Police have requested a DNA sample from Roethlisberger, but attorney Ed Garland has not yet agreed either to make a DNA sample available or to make Roethlisberger available for another interview.

[Big Blue Joe]

It's really not looking too good for Big Ben. The smoke around this story is starting to get awfully thick.

[Hooper]

The "she fell and hit her head" stuff is... well, yikes.

[NoGravity]

All right, look. You don't know much about this subject, and that's clear. It's also okay. However, don't go around trying to be condescending because you're not making yourself look good.

Go look up "rape shield law" and get back to me.

Or "tact."

I'm sorry if I sound short, but I'm at work where, you know, I deal with this all day. It becomes very frustrating that people can try to be such smartasses about such an extremely important topic that more than likely impacts them without even knowing it.

This is not a rape charge (in fact it still isn't even a formal charge). Get back to me when you're whining about the right issues. You can't rape someone without intercourse.

You've used the words truly pathetic and disturbing over and over again. I'm starting to wonder if you are talking about yourself since you seem to be so emotionally involved in this case. Did Big Ben touch you in a bathroom or something?

[NewCliche21]

This is not a rape charge (in fact it still isn't even a formal charge). Get back to me when you're whining about the right issues. You can't rape someone without intercourse.

You've used the words truly pathetic and disturbing over and over again. I'm starting to wonder if you are talking about yourself since you seem to be so emotionally involved in this case. Did Big Ben touch you in a bathroom or something?

Your attitude is appalling. You're all alone on this one. Not only are your facts completely off, which I'll let you research on your own without providing you with any *cough* http://www.naesv.org/Resources/Articles/UnderstandingRapeShieldLaws.pdf *cough* links on the subject (and please read the whole thing if you want to continue to pretend that you have any knowledge on the subject), you're making a truly adorable and misguided attempt to insult me for being adamant about the protection of women from violence and sex crimes.

That's right, YOU are trying to lead some sort of crusade against ME for being passionate about women NOT experiencing rape. Why on earth would someone be so against that? Oh, because you're a Steelers fan and this is the second time that Roethlisberger has been accused of this type of crime. Either that or you're an offender yourself.

I'm still waiting on which of your family members or loved ones you'd like to call a liar if your dumbass quarterback did the same thing to her.

One in four. You pick.

Have fun spending your days trying to think of a good retort (here's a hint: there isn't one), but maybe your precious hero will let you borrow his defense attorneys when he's done with them. Enjoy your day leading the charge towards rapes and sexual assaults for all! :thumbsup:

[darklight1216]

I know its a serious matter but bengal, raven and brown fans are calling him rapeaburger. So creative :ols:, I can imagine the posters
I think last year's "Rapistburger" was better.


They also took DNA from Big Ben so if there was any funny business the police will know in a month or so
DNA won't prove very much in and of itself. He's alread said that they had sexual contact. Now if the DNA came from blood, it might be a different situation.

This is not a rape charge (in fact it still isn't even a formal charge). Get back to me when you're whining about the right issues. You can't rape someone without intercourse.

You've used the words truly pathetic and disturbing over and over again. I'm starting to wonder if you are talking about yourself since you seem to be so emotionally involved in this case. Did Big Ben touch you in a bathroom or something?
Way to stay classy. These are the kinds of comments that give your fanbase a bad reputation.

Whatever happened the good old "innocent until proven guilty?"

[NewCliche21]

I think last year's "Rapistburger" was better.

DNA won't prove very much in and of itself. He's alread said that they had sexual contact. Now if the DNA came from blood, it might be a different situation.

Way to stay classy. These are the kinds of comments that give your fanbase a bad reputation.

Whatever happened the good old "innocent until proven guilty?"

Man, did I have you pegged the wrong way! :cheers:

Admitting to sexual contact is a way for DNA not to matter, as you said. That's like saying, "I was there, but I didn't do anything wrong." Kind of like Kobe admitting the affair so that any evidence found would be admitted and disregarded. A very common defense technique.

"Yes, I held the gun and fired it at one point, but I didn't shoot the victim." Renders fingerprints and gunshot residue absolutely worthless while making the guy in question look falsely accused. Hell, I'd use that defense if I were put in the same situation.

Vick used something similar with saying that he provided the grounds and financed it but had no idea what was going on there and didn't do anything to the dogs.

Same thing is used in traffic court. "I had to speed to avoid a car that was about to hit me."

You'll find it in every case.

[Big Blue Joe]

I'm still waiting on which of your family members or loved ones you'd like to call a liar if your dumbass quarterback did the same thing to her.

One in four. You pick.

Have fun spending your days trying to think of a good retort (here's a hint: there isn't one), but maybe your precious hero will let you borrow his defense attorneys when he's done with them. Enjoy your day leading the charge towards rapes and sexual assaults for all! :thumbsup:I can kind of understand where he's coming from. Your constant attempts to bring people's family members into this discussion got old several pages ago. Especially since the overwhelming majority of rapes are committed by someone close to the victim.

[SkinsNut73]

The "she fell and hit her head" stuff is... well, yikes.

I have to agree. When the story first broke I was skeptical, but that comment jumped off the page when I first read it. That's a little concerning...

[Big Blue Joe]

It may have gotten old to you since most young, clueless guys won't equate mom, sister or female cousin being sexually assaulted or putting their family members on the same level as rape victims because they won't say Mom or sis brought it on herself as most idiots immediately think of those actually assaulted.

Yeah I'm so sure all of the rapes in Metro DC are all "date rapes." :rolleyes: get real.If my mom, sister, or female cousin was raped, it was likely by a friend, my father, my brother, a male cousin, or myself. So I'm just wondering which one of my friends or family he's accusing of rape. Oh yeah, and thanks for the personal attack; I really appreciated that.

[NoGravity]

Your attitude is appalling. You're all alone on this one. Not only are your facts completely off, which I'll let you research on your own without providing you with any *cough* http://www.naesv.org/Resources/Articles/UnderstandingRapeShieldLaws.pdf *cough* links on the subject (and please read the whole thing if you want to continue to pretend that you have any knowledge on the subject), you're making a truly adorable and misguided attempt to insult me for being adamant about the protection of women from violence and sex crimes.

That's right, YOU are trying to lead some sort of crusade against ME for being passionate about women NOT experiencing rape. Why on earth would someone be so against that? Oh, because you're a Steelers fan and this is the second time that Roethlisberger has been accused of this type of crime. Either that or you're an offender yourself.

I'm still waiting on which of your family members or loved ones you'd like to call a liar if your dumbass quarterback did the same thing to her.

One in four. You pick.

Have fun spending your days trying to think of a good retort (here's a hint: there isn't one), but maybe your precious hero will let you borrow his defense attorneys when he's done with them. Enjoy your day leading the charge towards rapes and sexual assaults for all! :thumbsup:

Actually, posters have agreed with me about my initial thoughts on this case.

But obviously, you're on the "I'm right, everyone else who doesn't agree with me is wrong," mentality. I didn't say Ben was innocent at all. Neither did I lead a campaign saying Ben who supports him is disgusting and pathetic. If this same thing happened to Chris Cooley, I'm sure the Redskins fans across the world would support him. Especially when there is not enough evidence to support either side. Is that a surprise to you?

I've been giving you sarcasm in all my posts (after the first 2-3 in this thread) because it's obvious that you are a very thickheaded (possibly disturbed, pathetic, and appalling :ols:) individual who won't listen to anyone. You make up your own conclusions and run off with them. Anyone who goes and reads your posts in this thread will see that.

You are not neutral in this case, like you claim to be, and for the same reason you claim I support Ben being a Steelers fan, could be the same reason why you bash him (you are NOT a Steelers fan, since it takes you a while to put 2 and 2 together).

Good day to you! :laugh:

[NewCliche21]

I can kind of understand where he's coming from. Your constant attempts to bring people's family members into this discussion got old several pages ago. Especially since the overwhelming majority of rapes are committed by someone close to the victim.

76% are committed by someone known to the survivor, you're right. That does not mean that it did not happen to someone in your family or close to you, which it almost certainly did.

Your statistic is irrelevant to the fact that one in four women experience it.

Just because you don't like the facts doesn't change them.

[NewCliche21]

Actually, posters have agreed with me about my initial thoughts on this case.

But obviously, you're on the "I'm right, everyone else who doesn't agree with me is wrong," mentality. I didn't say Ben was innocent at all. Neither did I lead a campaign saying Ben who supports him is disgusting and pathetic. If this same thing happened to Chris Cooley, I'm sure the Redskins fans across the world would support him. Especially when there is not enough evidence to support either side. Is that a surprise to you?

I've been giving you sarcasm in all my posts (after the first 2-3 in this thread) because it's obvious that you are a very thickheaded (possibly disturbed, pathetic, and appalling :ols:) individual who won't listen to anyone. You make up your own conclusions and run off with them. Anyone who goes and reads your posts in this thread will see that.

You are not neutral in this case, like you claim to be, and for the same reason you claim I support Ben being a Steelers fan, could be the same reason why you bash him (you are NOT a Steelers fan, since it takes you a while to put 2 and 2 together).

Good day to you! :laugh:

:doh:

That's really that you are worth at this point.

[NewCliche21]

If my mom, sister, or female cousin was raped, it was likely by a friend, my father, my brother, a male cousin, or myself. So I'm just wondering which one of my friends or family he's accusing of rape. Oh yeah, and thanks for the personal attack; I really appreciated that.

The truth is that it is by someone known to the attacker. The majority of sexual assault cases are not incest, but remember that sex abuse is not part of the sexual assault statistics.

Again, not liking the facts does not change them.

I also am curious, and I genuinely AM curious (it's not a veiled insult), as to why you seem to be more concerned about someone accusing your friends or family rather than about the fact that you know someone, like many people, who have experienced it.

[NewCliche21]

It may have gotten old to you since most young, clueless guys won't equate mom, sister or female cousin being sexually assaulted or putting their family members on the same level as rape victims because they won't say Mom or sis brought it on herself as most idiots immediately think of those actually assaulted.

Yeah I'm so sure all of the rapes in Metro DC are all "date rapes." :rolleyes: get real.

^^^^^
Gets it.

The 76% statistic is national, though.

The depersonalization and thinking that "it couldn't happen to me or someone I know" is a defense mechanism that many people have. I am not surprised to see it in any population. Once people get past their defenses and actually look at reality, they tend to change their tunes.

[darklight1216]

Despite vowing to cooperate with the police, Ben's lawyer has not agreed to provide a DNA sample.

He also claims that they have evidence of his innocence.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/12/bens-attorney-claims-he-has-evidence-of-innocence/
Big surprise.

http://www.tmz.com/2010/03/12/ben-roethlisberger-hires-high-profile-private-dick/
This article is interesting. It states that Ben has hired a high profile private investigator, presumably to do some back-checking on the accuser.

We may hear the usual "She's had this many boyfriends in the last three months,"or perhaps there are some paper trails similar to the last accusation. (Look it up, if you don't know what I'm talking about.)

Also:

The alleged accuser is under 21. She was legally allowed to be in the bar but not allowed to drink. Law enforcement tells TMZ the alleged victim had been drinking and "alcohol is a factor in the investigation."

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/category/ben-roethlisberger/#ixzz0hzTTn4W5
If this is true, and she did break the law, I'm sure Ben's posse will be all over it.

[Mooka]

Also:

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/category/ben-roethlisberger/#ixzz0hzTTn4W5
If this is true, and she did break the law, I'm sure Ben's posse will be all over it. That actually could make things much worse for Ben.

A girl under the influence of alcohol cannot consent to sex and having sex with her is rape by law in many states. Not sure about Georgia.

[OWUeagleMD]

Here we go. The race to defame the girl and everything she's done since childhood is on. Let's hear about how she participated in a talent show ("Proof she wants to be famous!"), how she has photos with other guys and sexy poses on her Facebook page ("Proof she 'wanted it!'"), how someone in her sorority was found to have lied about rape in the past ("They're all the same!").

[NewCliche21]

Despite vowing to cooperate with the police, Ben's lawyer has not agreed to provide a DNA sample.

He also claims that they have evidence of his innocence.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/12/bens-attorney-claims-he-has-evidence-of-innocence/
Big surprise.

http://www.tmz.com/2010/03/12/ben-roethlisberger-hires-high-profile-private-dick/
This article is interesting. It states that Ben has hired a high profile private investigator, presumably to do some back-checking on the accuser.

We may hear the usual "She's had this many boyfriends in the last three months,"or perhaps there are some paper trails similar to the last accusation. (Look it up, if you don't know what I'm talking about.)

Also:

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/category/ben-roethlisberger/#ixzz0hzTTn4W5
If this is true, and she did break the law, I'm sure Ben's posse will be all over it.

You rock for keeping up with this!

As for the background check, look at the rape shield law (which doesn't exist according to some people in this thread), and how it worked in the Bryant case. It's a TERRIBLE precedent.

Just to let you know how behind the times our country is:

Until April of 2008, a person could not withdraw consent after intercourse had begun. It was the "initial deflowering" that was the crime. Find out he's not wearing a condom? Too bad. Find out that she's not on the pill? Too bad. Realize what you're doing? Too bad. Find out that she/he has an STD? Too bad. Up until less than TWO years ago.

The culture of this society regarding rape is atrocious.

[darklight1216]

That actually could make things much worse for Ben.

A girl under the influence of alcohol cannot consent to sex and having sex with her is rape by law in many states. Not sure about Georgia.
First of all, how does that even work? If you get drunk, drive a car, and kill someone with it, you are responsible for taking their life; but if you get drunk you're not capable of giving consent?

If having sex after consuming alchohol is against the law in many states, do they prosecute most of the college students in those states?

I suppose this could apply to both parties, right? So Ben could, conceivable use that defense himself... Of course, Jen also denies having intercourse with her at all so it might be a moot point.

[NewCliche21]

First of all, how does that even work? If you get drunk, drive a car, and kill someone with it, you are responsible for taking their life; but if you get drunk you're not capable of giving consent?

If having sex after consuming alchohol is against the law in many states, do they prosecute most of the college students in those states?

So then, I suppose this could apply to both parties, right? Of course, Jen also denies having intercourse with her at all so it might be a moot point.

It's a judgment call, really. There's no BAC for it. If someone is too intoxicated, though, then she/he can't consent. Just like you can't ask a drunk person to sign any sort of binding agreement. Consent is that agreement.

If you're getting a girl drunk in order to have sex with her, then you're aiming for a rape. And you've also got no game and are pretty pathetic.

[Mooka]

If having sex after consuming alchohol is against the law in many states, do they prosecute most of the college students in those states? Well it definitely happens, sometimes people fall victim of the system. I know a guy (well the accusing girl actually) that had his life pretty much ruined because of an unfortunate circumstance like this.


So then, I suppose this could apply to both parties, right? Of course, Jen also denies having intercourse with her at all so it might be a moot point. It does. Problem is that means the guy has to counter and accuse the girl of rape. A tough sell for any guy.

[darklight1216]

And you've also got no game and are pretty pathetic.
Have you ever seen Ben Roethlisberger? :silly:

Also, speaking of precedent in rape shield laws:


[Judge Philip Brown] humiliated Ross by forcing her to reveal her dating history and history of sexual contact; this despite Georgia (criminal, at least) rape shield laws that are meant to protect sexual assault victims from having to discuss any previous sexual partners.
http://marybubbles.wordpress.com/2008/05/16/georgia-women-and-men-should-be-outraged/
Now this is all speculation (but, hey it is a football message board) but since this case happened recently (2008) and occured in the same state, this might possibly be applicable in Jen's case... maybe, assuming this case even makes it to court. Now in this case, the woman had been dating the guy she accused for a while and that's probably why the judge admitted it. Ben and his accuser don't seem to have any history so it might all be irrelevant.

(The flip side of the rape shield laws is that if they are upheld, they can even be used to exclude a history of falsely reporting rapes.)

[NoGravity]

I get it. 25 year old social worker. That is disturbing.

NoGravity

^^^ gets it.

[NewCliche21]

I get it. 25 year old social worker. lol.

NoGravity

^^^ gets it

You're not even trying to make sense at this point.

Stop trolling another team's board and go blindly defend sex offenders somewhere else, mmkay?

[NoGravity]

You're not even trying to make sense at this point.

Stop trolling another team's board and go blindly defend sex offenders somewhere else, mmkay?

Finally took you this long to admit you were just bashing Ben, not taking a 'lets see the facts' approach. :ols:

The only troll is the social worker preach that has been coming out of your mouth for this entire thread.

[OWUeagleMD]

Those evil social workers, with their decision to pursue a low-paying career that benefits others directly! God, I hate those people! Also on my hate list: teachers, firemen, rescue workers.

[HailRiggoRanger]

I work with social workers every day, and as they say, women rarely, rarely lie about sexual assault/rape (so rare, it's statistically insignificant). Roethlisberger is guilty (just as Kobe was guilty). It's sad that they're about to trash this woman's reputation. The women that come forward and stick with the case to the end deserve a medal of honor imo.

[NewCliche21]

Those evil social workers, with their decision to pursue a low-paying career that benefits others directly! God, I hate those people! Also on my hate list: teachers, firemen, rescue workers.

:)

Comes with the job title.


I work with social workers every day, and as they say, women rarely, rarely lie about sexual assault/rape (so rare, it's statistically insignificant). Roethlisberger is guilty (just as Kobe was guilty). It's sad that they're about to trash this woman's reputation. The women that come forward and stick with the case to the end deserve a medal of honor imo.

^^^^^^

Gets it.

[HailRiggoRanger]

:)

Comes with the job title.



^^^^^^

Gets it.

Seriously, my heart goes out to her and her family, for what she went through and what she will go through. Rape shield laws are a joke; the laws didn't stop Kobe's attorneys from having a field day with his victim.

[NewCliche21]

Seriously, my heart goes out to her and her family, for what she went through and what she will go through. Rape shield laws are a joke; the laws didn't stop Kobe's attorneys from having a field day with his victim.

No, survivors never get the protections and respect that they deserve.

It is a shame that society as a whole does not understand how trauma affects people. I really think that people, who have the chance, should seek out a presentation on how trauma impacts a person and those around her/him.

It's sad, but a lot of the posters here are simply a product of a lack of education or misinformation on the topic.

[darklight1216]

Here's some really long article from Pittsburgh: http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/pittsburgh/s_671613.html

Buried in there is the report that Ben's lawyer has agreed to arrange another meeting between Ben and the police and to submit a DNA sample.

[Hiro]

First of all, how does that even work? If you get drunk, drive a car, and kill someone with it, you are responsible for taking their life; but if you get drunk you're not capable of giving consent?

If having sex after consuming alchohol is against the law in many states, do they prosecute most of the college students in those states?

I suppose this could apply to both parties, right? So Ben could, conceivable use that defense himself... Of course, Jen also denies having intercourse with her at all so it might be a moot point.
What they're thinking typically are girls who basically cannot think, or are blacked out while they're "consenting" to have sex. Or hell, the guy could easily say that the girl said it was fine, when the girl didn't really want it.

Alcohol impairs judgment, this is something they take into account. You can't really tell what's spoken to be true and what's spoken to be false. That's why, as a guy, I'd rather just refuse a drunk girl and not run the risk of being accused of being raped, rather then have sex with a drunk girl and face the 'consequences' later.

And yes, many college students have faced rape charges as a result of drunken one night stands.


Finally took you this long to admit you were just bashing Ben, not taking a 'lets see the facts' approach.

The only troll is the social worker preach that has been coming out of your mouth for this entire thread.
He's been contributing to this discussion, based on his personal experience.

You may refuse to see it because Roethilisberger is your QB, but if I were a Steelers fan, I'd be taking the same approach your owners are taking. They're very pissed that Ben, if he is innocent, didn't bother to take a change in his lifestyle to make sure he wouldn't put himself in a compromising position after going through what he did before. That's on Roethilsberger for not growing the hell up.

"Seeing the facts" goes both ways man. Let's wait to see if physical evidence comes out to incriminate Ben before we go accusing this girl of being a gold digger. If Ben did this, he deserves lots of jailtime.

[robotfire]

In the case of forced oral sex, is there going to be anything in the vagina?Look, I think we can all agree that we're confused about how all of that works. There's no reason to turn this into a scientific debate that will only confuse us further...

[darklight1216]

The Georgia state police agency investigating allegations against Ben Roethlisberger is pursuing an interview with the woman who sued the Pittsburgh Steelers' quarterback in Nevada last year, the woman's attorney said Wednesday.

Attorney Calvin Dunlap, who represents the accuser in the Nevada case, Andrea McNulty, told KDKA-TV in Pittsburgh that the Georgia Bureau of Investigation has sought an interview with his client. Dunlap has not ruled out allowing McNulty to speak to Georgia investigators.

In the Nevada lawsuit, McNulty alleged Roethlisberger sexually assaulted her. He has denied those allegations. No criminal charges have been filed in that case.

"They need information from us, and frankly we need information from them, so I will make a decision on how to proceed as the need arises," Dunlap told KDKA-TV.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5005188

I'm not sure how this could affect things.

[NewCliche21]

The Georgia state police agency investigating allegations against Ben Roethlisberger is pursuing an interview with the woman who sued the Pittsburgh Steelers' quarterback in Nevada last year, the woman's attorney said Wednesday.

Attorney Calvin Dunlap, who represents the accuser in the Nevada case, Andrea McNulty, told KDKA-TV in Pittsburgh that the Georgia Bureau of Investigation has sought an interview with his client. Dunlap has not ruled out allowing McNulty to speak to Georgia investigators.

In the Nevada lawsuit, McNulty alleged Roethlisberger sexually assaulted her. He has denied those allegations. No criminal charges have been filed in that case.

"They need information from us, and frankly we need information from them, so I will make a decision on how to proceed as the need arises," Dunlap told KDKA-TV.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5005188

I'm not sure how this could affect things.

They wouldn't be talking to her if pieces weren't coming together and dots weren't being connected during the investigation.

Remember, there's no double-jeopardy here. There were never criminal charges.

[darklight1216]

They wouldn't be talking to her if pieces weren't coming together and dots weren't being connected during the investigation.

They might want to talk to her if they were looking for pieces. It's not really unusual for the cops to look into past allegations.

[NewCliche21]

They might want to talk to her if they were looking for pieces. It's not really unusual for the cops to look into past allegations.

We're gonna go back and forth on the logistics of it. Agreeing to disagree. :cheers:

[NoGravity]

I think we should take a deep breath and let the facts come out before making any snap judgments here. It could very easily be that this chick is a money grubber and it's a classic financial shakedown, and at the same time it could be that Ben is a scumbag. Let's let the facts come out before deciding.

If these accusations are lies, he's guilty of really bad judgment getting with women who he obviously shouldn't be trusting. If the allegations are true, then of course he's guilty of far worse.

^^^

gets it.

[Hiro]

"I'm highly concerned for our franchise and for Ben personally," Tomlin told the NFL Network after arriving in Orlando, Fla., on Saturday for the NFL meetings, which start Monday.
"My concerns are many," Tomlin said, "but I think at this time it's kind of appropriate to watch these things and let these things run their course. I think it would be inappropriate for me to have strong feelings one way or another with the investigation being ongoing and so forth. Like everyone else, you watch these things unfold."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5014558

The statements made by Tomlin and the Rooneys speak volumes IMO. If Ben goes to trial and is found to have done the deed he's been accused of, I think there's a good chance the Steelers would get rid of him.

[darklight1216]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5014558

The statements made by Tomlin and the Rooneys speak volumes IMO. If Ben goes to trial and is found to have done the deed he's been accused of, I think there's a good chance the Steelers would get rid of him.
If this makes it to trial, the league may suspend regardless of the outcome.



The Personal Conduct Policy states that persons "arrested, charged or otherwise appearing to have engaged in conduct prohibited under this policy will be required to undergo a formal clinical evaluation." Even if authorities in Georgia decide that insufficient evidence exists to convict Roethlisberger beyond a reasonable doubt, the mere making of the criminal complaint fits the "otherwise appearing" language.

...If Roethlisberger is charged, the team and/or the league "can dole out immediate discipline," even without a conviction.

A key factor in this regard will be the outcome of the investigation that NFL Security undoubtedly is conducting. If NFL Security believes that the claim against Roethlisberger has merit, there's a chance that an indictment will result in the same indefinite suspension that was imposed on Mike Vick once he was indicted on federal conspiracy charges relating to dogfighting and gambling.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/22/roethlisberger-faces-league-scrutiny-even-without-indictment/

[NewCliche21]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5014558

The statements made by Tomlin and the Rooneys speak volumes IMO. If Ben goes to trial and is found to have done the deed he's been accused of, I think there's a good chance the Steelers would get rid of him.

I'm with you on this. If they had no doubts, then they would have no doubts in the media. When you're doing damage control already, you know that SOMETHING is wrong.

[darklight1216]

Reasons why Ben's lawyer isn't letting him talk to the cops:


The decision not to fully cooperate with the investigation could be driven by different factors. First, it's possible that Roethlisberger is guilty as charged, and that he prefers neither to admit to a crime nor to compound the problem by lying to police. If that's the case, Garland will force the prosecution to prove its case with no specific cooperation from Roethlisberger. (Of course, if Roethlisberger is guilty, then he deserves to be convicted, and to have a large cellmate who is a Ravens fan. Our system of justice, however, seeks to prevent unjust imprisonments, even if it means periodically -- or more often -- allowing the guilty to go free.)

It's also possible that Roethlisberger is innocent, but that Garland believes that his client, well, isn't very bright. (Garland would have a lot of company.) In that case, talking to the cops could give them ammunition for prosecution and a conviction that they don't already have, even if it's merely a case of Roethlisberger getting tied up in knots while he tries to explain himself.

There's also a chance that, guilty or innocent, Garland wants to defer producing Roethlisberger until Garland has concluded his own investigation. This will allow Garland to funnel to his client the information that has been gathered, so that Roethlisberger will be aware of the potential traps, pitfalls and conflicts in the various accounts that have been given by other witnesses.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2010-03-18/roethsliberger-s-decision-not-talk-places-liberty-over-image

[NoGravity]

"ammunition for prosecution and a conviction that they don't already have"

Oh the real reason why Ben hasn't even been charged with anything comes out.

[NewCliche21]

"ammunition for prosecution and a conviction that they don't already have"

Oh the real reason why Ben hasn't even been charged with anything comes out.

Someone didn't read the article or any other, apparently.

[darklight1216]

Someone didn't read the article or any other, apparently.
I'd say that it's a safe bet that the quotation wasn't even read very carefully. :silly: But hey, everyone skims at some point.



The Georgia Bureau of Investigation has withdrawn its request for a DNA sample from Ben Roethlisberger (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=5536), according a source familiar with the investigation.

No reason was given as to why the GBI has withdrawn its request or when it did so. When asked what this means in terms of the status of the investigation of Roethlisberger, GBI public information officer John Bankhead declined to comment.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5022501

If you watch the video, Espn's legal analyst doesn't think that this is the first sign that the police are going to drop this investigation, but rather that they don't need it.

Ben's private investigator expects his investigation to be complete very soon.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5006803

[NewCliche21]

Thank you, darklight, for being a poster who can actually contribute to the thread. I may not agree with everything that you have to say, but it at least means something.

[NoGravity]

The Georgia police no longer are requesting Ben's DNA for their investigation. This is good news for Steeler fans and tells us that they have little to no physical evidence against Ben. We'll see what happens, but I have a feeling NewCliche21 will be owing Ben an apology by time the season starts ;)

[darklight1216]

The Georgia police no longer are requesting Ben's DNA for their investigation. This is good news for Steeler fans and tells us that they have little to no physical evidence against Ben. We'll see what happens, but I have a feeling NewCliche21 will be owing Ben an apology by time the season starts ;)
Beat you to it. :pfft:

Remember, DNA evidence would only prove that Ben was there. No one is denying that fact, so the police might not need the DNA because they already know that he was there. Although it could be the beginning of the end, as you said.

Thank you, darklight, for being a poster who can actually contribute to the thread. I may not agree with everything that you have to say, but it at least means something.
Thanks; right back at you. :cheers:

[NewCliche21]

The Georgia police no longer are requesting Ben's DNA for their investigation. This is good news for Steeler fans and tells us that they have little to no physical evidence against Ben. We'll see what happens, but I have a feeling NewCliche21 will be owing Ben an apology by time the season starts ;)

It tells you what you want to hear because your hero is a disgusting "person." You're reading what you want it to read.

You already owe one in four women an apology. Call up your mom, sister, girlfriend, or grandmother and pick one. Your attitudes make it happen, little man.

[Enter Apotheosis]

It tells you what you want to hear because your hero is a disgusting "person." You're reading what you want it to read.

You already owe one in four women an apology. Call up your mom, sister, girlfriend, or grandmother and pick one. Your attitudes make it happen, little man.

From what little I've seen, you're pretty much the same guy he is... you're just on the opposite side of the debate over Ben's guilt. If you want to be an advocate for rape victims there are probably far more useful and productive ways for you to be spending your time than pulling the white knight routine on a football message board. :2cents:

[Hiro]

The Georgia police no longer are requesting Ben's DNA for their investigation. This is good news for Steeler fans and tells us that they have little to no physical evidence against Ben. We'll see what happens, but I have a feeling NewCliche21 will be owing Ben an apology by time the season starts ;)
Maybe they don't need it? :whoknows:

You do realize that the fact that your owners and coach haven't come out with exactly ringing endorsements of Ben must mean that they know something that we don't, right? I'm withholding judgment on this one, but I wouldn't crow just yet. This isn't over.

[NoGravity]

From what little I've seen, you're pretty much the same guy he is... you're just on the opposite side of the debate over Ben's guilt. If you want to be an advocate for rape victims there are probably far more useful and productive ways for you to be spending your time than pulling the white knight routine on a football message board. :2cents:

Bravo dude. About time someone saw what was going on.

If you read my first couple of posts, they showed no biasness to whether Ben was innocent or guilty. I took the wait and see approach, like most logical people are doing. This guy then goes on to question my intelligence then says I make fun of rape victims because I have a Polamalu signature. This guy is unbelievable. Since then, I've just been making fun of his posts and egging him on. And what do you know? He throws a fit. Seriously, for a social worker, you would think he would have a little more self control. He's basically preaching in an NFL forum. I find it bizarre.

[darklight1216]

Maybe they don't need it? :whoknows:

You do realize that the fact that your owners and coach haven't come out with exactly ringing endorsements of Ben must mean that they know something that we don't, right? I'm withholding judgment on this one, but I wouldn't crow just yet. This isn't over.
Don't you think the Steelers could just be frustrated that he put himself in a situation like this yet again?

NoGravity, I found some one that agrees with you.


Forensic pathologist Dr. Cyril Wecht told the Tribune-Review that investigators' decision not to seek a DNA sample could mean they lack physical evidence against Roethlisberger:

"We can infer, with some certainty, that they have nothing at all that would be male ejaculate, semen, that would be a stain on clothing or any swabs taken from the lady. Remember Monica Lewinsky's dress? We don't have that kind of thing now.
"Now, medically and legally, this doesn't mean that rape or another form of assault didn't take place. But in the absence of DNA, if they did the proper workup, it markedly could weaken what was a case."
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/03/police-wont-seek-dna-sample-from-steelers-qb-ben-roethlisberger-in-sexual-assault (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/03/police-wont-seek-dna-sample-from-steelers-qb-ben-roethlisberger-in-sexual-assault-case/1)

[Hiro]

Don't you think the Steelers could just be frustrated that he put himself in a situation like this yet again?Quite possible as well, which I think could be partly why they've been saying the things they've been saying.

Regardless, this isn't like that Falcons coming out with a ringing endorsement for Vick. The Steelers brass knows something is wrong (whether it's him putting himself out there or doing it, I don't know) and will likely end up taking some kind of action at the end to save face, depending on what becomes of this investigation.

[Laxpunk2006]

The authorities dropping their request for DNA doesn't mean a thing one way or the other. Ben has already admitted that "sexual contact" has occurred. If he is admitting it happened but saying it was consensual, what would the presence of his DNA prove? Nothing.

Ben could still be a scumbag, or a victim of money hungry females, but this proves nothing.

[NewCliche21]

From what little I've seen, you're pretty much the same guy he is... you're just on the opposite side of the debate over Ben's guilt. If you want to be an advocate for rape victims there are probably far more useful and productive ways for you to be spending your time than pulling the white knight routine on a football message board. :2cents:

You're admitting to reading little, and I think that's from where you're getting your impression.

I'm not saying that anyone is guilty. I'm against calling women "money-grubbing whores" and automatically assuming that a woman is lying. I'm saying that the reality of rape, while people don't like it, IS the reality. Perpetuating the automatic blame of a woman and defense of a man, especially a celebrity, is dangerous.

I'm an advocate academically, professionally, and in my spare time. There isn't much more that I can do time-wise, though I appreciate your concern.


Bravo dude. About time someone saw what was going on.

If you read my first couple of posts, they showed no biasness to whether Ben was innocent or guilty. I took the wait and see approach, like most logical people are doing. This guy then goes on to question my intelligence then says I make fun of rape victims because I have a Polamalu signature. This guy is unbelievable. Since then, I've just been making fun of his posts and egging him on. And what do you know? He throws a fit. Seriously, for a social worker, you would think he would have a little more self control. He's basically preaching in an NFL forum. I find it bizarre.

You've been oppositional, immature, and contributed nothing throughout this thread. Your first post wasn't bad, but it just all went downhill from there.

You're admitting to making fun of my posts and egging me on concerning rape and sexual assault? That just shows how much "intelligence" you have and what kind of person you are. I never, ever said that you are the way that you are because of your signature; I said that you are clinging to this one because of who the accused is, and I still believe that. You can't even get your own lies straight.

People with real values keep them wherever they are.

Still waiting for you to pick your one in four and tell her to her face that what she experienced doesn't matter and that it should be something to mock her for. Let us know how that goes.

Your irrelevant, smartass "comeback" is on its way, I'm sure.

[NewCliche21]

The authorities dropping their request for DNA doesn't mean a thing one way or the other. Ben has already admitted that "sexual contact" has occurred. If he is admitting it happened but saying it was consensual, what would the presence of his DNA prove? Nothing.

Ben could still be a scumbag, or a victim of money hungry females, but this proves nothing.

This is the same as what happened with Kobe. He admitted that sexual contact happened, so DNA evidence is moot.

It's saying, "Yes, I have blood on my hands because we got into a fight, but I didn't kill him!" Puts you at the scene and explains the evidence; it in no way exonerates you.

[NoGravity]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/24/report-roethlisbergers-accuser-declines-interview/

Report: Roethlisberger's accuser declines to be re-interviewed

Posted by Mike Florio on March 24, 2010 7:44 PM ET
On Tuesday, the news that police have dropped a request for an DNA sample from Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger was regarded as an indication that full exoneration is coming. There's been another development that points more directly to the possible collapse of the case.

According to KDKA-TV in Pittsburgh, the alleged victim has declined to be re-interviewed by authorities. She last talked to police on the evening of the alleged incident.

Unless the alleged victim, who has retained private counsel, has opted to focus only on a civil claim, the move makes no sense. And even if she plans to focus on the civil claim, a viable criminal case provides a high degree of leverage.

Then there's the possibility that there has been a secret and confidential settlement, and that the deal specifically required her to no longer cooperate with the criminal investigation.

[darklight1216]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/24/report-roethlisbergers-accuser-declines-interview/

Report: Roethlisberger's accuser declines to be re-interviewed

Posted by Mike Florio on March 24, 2010 7:44 PM ET
On Tuesday, the news that police have dropped a request for an DNA sample from Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger was regarded as an indication that full exoneration is coming. There's been another development that points more directly to the possible collapse of the case.

According to KDKA-TV in Pittsburgh, the alleged victim has declined to be re-interviewed by authorities. She last talked to police on the evening of the alleged incident.

Unless the alleged victim, who has retained private counsel, has opted to focus only on a civil claim, the move makes no sense. And even if she plans to focus on the civil claim, a viable criminal case provides a high degree of leverage.

Then there's the possibility that there has been a secret and confidential settlement, and that the deal specifically required her to no longer cooperate with the criminal investigation.
If it's true that this case is falling apart, Ben might just be the luckiest player in the NFL. Not only does he get drafted by a good team, he walks away from a bad motorcycle accident, his first accusation went away, and when he puts himself in a bad situation yet again, he dodges that bullet too.

Of course, PFT could be wrong. It's not over 'til it's over, but thanks for the info.

[NewCliche21]

And it happens again.

It is unfortunate that I can more than imagine what this woman is going through right now. If it happened, then she's been reliving that night over and over for nearly three weeks. Every waking moment is dedicated to the worst moment of her life. Nobody stops to think about that at all.

Many just give up due to the psychological torture. That trauma being experienced over and over and over. So many people on the outside saying that she's a liar, she's a whore, she's in it for money, and fawning over the accused. I am impressed with anyone with the strength that this woman has. The shame that she will be forced to live with for the rest of her life, the stares, the points, the posts on facebook, the e-mails, the IMs, the news stories, everything. Every moment from the time that she wakes up to the time that she goes to bed, and even in her nightmares, is dedicated to this. I'd take 25 to life over that. There is a reason that the suicide rate among those who have experienced sexual assault is 1,300% higher than of the general population. I can't blame them.

And, of course, nobody thinks about that.

[NoGravity]

Well Cliche, how about you reverse situations. What if it wasn't true and she wanted to cash out. Can you think of the psychological effects it would have on the accused?

[NoGravity]

If it's true that this case is falling apart, Ben might just be the luckiest player in the NFL. Not only does he get drafted by a good team, he walks away from a bad motorcycle accident, his first accusation went away, and when he puts himself in a bad situation yet again, he dodges that bullet too.

Of course, PFT could be wrong. It's not over 'til it's over, but thanks for the info.

He was drafted by a 6-10 team. Don't want to get into that argument of how underrated a quarterback he is. I've been saying that since 2005. It kind of stopped after his 2nd SB though... ;)

[Sweet Sassy Molassy]

And it happens again.

It is unfortunate that I can more than imagine what this woman is going through right now. If it happened, then she's been reliving that night over and over for nearly three weeks. Every waking moment is dedicated to the worst moment of her life. Nobody stops to think about that at all.

Many just give up due to the psychological torture. That trauma being experienced over and over and over. So many people on the outside saying that she's a liar, she's a whore, she's in it for money, and fawning over the accused. I am impressed with anyone with the strength that this woman has. The shame that she will be forced to live with for the rest of her life, the stares, the points, the posts on facebook, the e-mails, the IMs, the news stories, everything. Every moment from the time that she wakes up to the time that she goes to bed, and even in her nightmares, is dedicated to this. I'd take 25 to life over that. There is a reason that the suicide rate among those who have experienced sexual assault is 1,300% higher than of the general population. I can't blame them.

And, of course, nobody thinks about that.

I've been following this thread since it started and we had a bit of discourse about the subject. Since then I've left it alone, but I still feel like you've made up your mind about this situation. I understand what you're saying, but man, you just seem to refuse the idea that she could be lying. No one called her a money grubbing whore, but you are sticking to that claim like people came in this thread ragging on the woman. Again, I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I really feel like you have an agenda that goes beyond the truth, and due to that you've already decided that Ben is 100% guilty as EA said, I really haven't seen what makes you much different than the people you seem to be condemning in this thread ... aside from the fact that you're on the other end of the spectrum.


Well Cliche, how about you reverse situations. What if it wasn't true and she wanted to cash out. Can you think of the psychological effects it would have on the accused?

Exactly.


He was drafted by a 6-10 team. Don't want to get into that argument of how underrated a quarterback he is. I've been saying that since 2005. It kind of stopped after his 2nd SB though... ;)

Totally unrelated to the thread, but I agree. Ben is severely underrated as a QB, the man is one of the top 5 or 6 QBs in the game.

[darklight1216]

He was drafted by a 6-10 team. Don't want to get into that argument of how underrated a quarterback he is. I've been saying that since 2005. It kind of stopped after his 2nd SB though... ;)
I don't think it really stopped. Most fans have him outside the top five qbs in the league. I see alot of Rivers/Rodgers being ranked ahead of him. I think it's just been tempered now. You still have the "he just has a good defense crowd" (and granted, save for one year, he's never made the playoffs without the having the number one defense on his team) but now you've also got the "omg he's the best qb eveeeeerrrrrr" people raising their voices to even things out.

As far as the Steelers not being good before he was drafted. Child, please. They had something like 26 .500 or better seasons in the 32 years before he was drafted. Let's not act like Ben was drafted by the Arizona Cardinals or Detroit Lions.

[Laxpunk2006]

And it happens again.

It is unfortunate that I can more than imagine what this woman is going through right now. If it happened, then she's been reliving that night over and over for nearly three weeks. Every waking moment is dedicated to the worst moment of her life. Nobody stops to think about that at all.

Many just give up due to the psychological torture. That trauma being experienced over and over and over. So many people on the outside saying that she's a liar, she's a whore, she's in it for money, and fawning over the accused. I am impressed with anyone with the strength that this woman has. The shame that she will be forced to live with for the rest of her life, the stares, the points, the posts on facebook, the e-mails, the IMs, the news stories, everything. Every moment from the time that she wakes up to the time that she goes to bed, and even in her nightmares, is dedicated to this. I'd take 25 to life over that. There is a reason that the suicide rate among those who have experienced sexual assault is 1,300% higher than of the general population. I can't blame them.

And, of course, nobody thinks about that.

What if Ben is innocent? Even if found "not guilty" or charges are dropped there will still be many around the country that are going to assume he is a rapist. That isn't something I would like to be known for. What about the possibility that he is innocent but is found guilty anyway?

It's a horrible situation regardless who is at fault here. One person's life is going to be altered in a horrible way.

[HailRiggoRanger]

And it happens again.

It is unfortunate that I can more than imagine what this woman is going through right now. If it happened, then she's been reliving that night over and over for nearly three weeks. Every waking moment is dedicated to the worst moment of her life. Nobody stops to think about that at all.

Many just give up due to the psychological torture. That trauma being experienced over and over and over. So many people on the outside saying that she's a liar, she's a whore, she's in it for money, and fawning over the accused. I am impressed with anyone with the strength that this woman has. The shame that she will be forced to live with for the rest of her life, the stares, the points, the posts on facebook, the e-mails, the IMs, the news stories, everything. Every moment from the time that she wakes up to the time that she goes to bed, and even in her nightmares, is dedicated to this. I'd take 25 to life over that. There is a reason that the suicide rate among those who have experienced sexual assault is 1,300% higher than of the general population. I can't blame them.

And, of course, nobody thinks about that.

Ditto that. I said earlier in this thread that I felt so bad for her and her family, and that if she pursues the case she deserves a medal of honor.

I also said that I work with social workers everyday, and what others do not understand, is that women rarely, if ever, lie about sexual assault/rape. It's so rare it's statistically improbable. The fact that Roethlisberger has been accused twice is no coincidence.

To help others understand (especially the Steelers fan that defends him just b/c he happens to be on a team the guy likes), take a look at superstars that got/get a lot of ass -- Warren Beatty, Magic Johnson, Tiger Woods, Wilt Chamberlain, Matt Damon, Derek Jeter, George Clooney...the list goes on and on. Most of these guys have slept with thousands of women, how many times were any of them accused?

That should clear it up for those that think women cry rape to make money.

[Hiro]

Well Cliche, how about you reverse situations. What if it wasn't true and she wanted to cash out. Can you think of the psychological effects it would have on the accused?
How do you figure? Playing Devil's Advocate here, if he didn't do it, Ben is a moron for putting himself out in a bad situation to potentially get accused again. He should have learned after the 1st accusation that he's a potentially vulnerable person that people could go after because of the type of money he makes.

I honestly doubt Ben is going through any kind of psychological problems that are anything close to what a rape victim would go through. I don't pity the man, even if he was falsely accused. He knows how much money he makes, yet he continues to get drunk and gallivant as if he were 20 years old. He's almost 30 for god's sake, he needs to grow up.

[NewCliche21]

Well Cliche, how about you reverse situations. What if it wasn't true and she wanted to cash out. Can you think of the psychological effects it would have on the accused?

Being falsely accused of this type of crime is terrible, and I will certainly agree with you on that.

My advice for Ben: If you don't like where you are, then stop taking the path that got you there.


I've been following this thread since it started and we had a bit of discourse about the subject. Since then I've left it alone, but I still feel like you've made up your mind about this situation. I understand what you're saying, but man, you just seem to refuse the idea that she could be lying. No one called her a money grubbing whore, but you are sticking to that claim like people came in this thread ragging on the woman.

Took me literally four seconds to find this on the first page of the thread:


];7345508']The last chick was full of **** right?

If I were a money grubbing attention whore, the only person I'd accuse of rape before an athlete is an athlete who's already been accused of rape.

I'll side with Big Ben until this settles down.

Soon after:


Picture of the accuser..

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c202/Gracelander/crosbybaby.jpg

Not as bad, but still shows the societal thought process:


Agreed. I know probably 4 or 5 girls that have claimed to have been raped at one point in their lives, some of which even went to the police. All of which have eventually admitted it was a lie/exageration for one reason or another.

The first chick was obviously lieing for money. This one we'll have to wait for the facts but Ben is an easy target at this point. If I were looking for attention/money Ben would 100% be my target right now.


Again, I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I really feel like you have an agenda that goes beyond the truth, and due to that you've already decided that Ben is 100% guilty as EA said, I really haven't seen what makes you much different than the people you seem to be condemning in this thread ... aside from the fact that you're on the other end of the spectrum.

My "agenda" is that people who perpetrate sex crimes receive treatment and go to jail, that those who experience it do not experience it again and get the treatment that they deserve, and that sex crimes do not happen at all. THAT is my "agenda."

I don't know if he is guilty. He's a dumbass for sure, but I'm waiting to see where I said that he was 100% guilty.


What if Ben is innocent? Even if found "not guilty" or charges are dropped there will still be many around the country that are going to assume he is a rapist. That isn't something I would like to be known for. What about the possibility that he is innocent but is found guilty anyway?

It's a horrible situation regardless who is at fault here. One person's life is going to be altered in a horrible way.

I don't think that you know how these cases go. The likelihood of him being convicted of a crime that he committed (we're being hypothetical here) while just being a regular person is in the single percentage point-range.

If he wants to scrub his psyche, then he needs to prove that he's not an idiot, which he hasn't. Two of these cases and the motorcycle accident, for which he showed no remorse and he said that he would not advocate wearing a helmet again, and he's 27? 28? Don't put yourself in that situation anymore. We blame women for wearing a short dress or a low top, but a guy with a bad reputation shouldn't take special precautions out of common sense?

Even if he IS a rapist (and this case isn't a rape), that doesn't mean that he can't turn it around. What good is it for society, the woman/women, or Roethlisberger if he's burned at the stake for doing this? Nothing. Get treatment, serve your time, and give some time/money/celebrity to the cause.

If he were smart, which he's demonstrated that he's not, then he would do that in a way that was least likely to get accusations of sarcasm or mocking.

[Sweet Sassy Molassy]

Being falsely accused of this type of crime is terrible, and I will certainly agree with you on that.

My advice for Ben: If you don't like where you are, then stop taking the path that got you there.


I don't think too many people would disagree with that.



Took me literally four seconds to find this on the first page of the thread:


I don't think that really helps your argument as far as I'm concerned. You and I specifically have gone back and forth about that quote, and during that exchange I gave you my perception of the statement. I even broke down the statement and explained the way I perceived it. So unless Ghost comes in here and clears up this debate, I still believe you were merely using his comment as a launching pad your display of bravado (for lack of a better word).



Soon after:


I understand that this is a serious situation but c'mon, seriously? We're on a D.C. based messageboard, that has a large Washington Capitals contingent, and the Pens are a rival of the Caps. I feel like that was a rather innocuous, albeit inappropriate but somewhat funny, attempt at humor.



Not as bad, but still shows the societal thought process:

We've debated the intent of these statements once already, and it seems that you're just rehashing old arguments. As I said in our earlier discussion, which I guess you decided not to respond/read, I don't think anyone was condemning the current accuser the way you seem to suggest, they are merely reminding people what happened last time so that people don't jump to conclusions.

In-fact, in both quotes you've highlighted and pulled out the comments the person made that fit within what you want people to see, but you leave out the part where they immediately say that they'll wait to see more facts come out before they make their mind up. Seems a bit disingenuous to me.

Also if it's fair to suggest/ask "What if Ben did it" why is it unfair to ask/suggest "What if the woman was lying"?




My "agenda" is that people who perpetrate sex crimes receive treatment and go to jail, that those who experience it do not experience it again and get the treatment that they deserve, and that sex crimes do not happen at all. THAT is my "agenda."

I don't know if he is guilty. He's a dumbass for sure, but I'm waiting to see where I said that he was 100% guilty.


Agenda may have been a bad choice of word, I apologize about that however I think that bias may have been a better word to use. I respect your passion for the subject, I wish more people knew as much as you do about it as it would really do a lot to help the enlighten people about the harsh reality and affects that something like this has on the victim, perpetrator, their respective families and friend.

I didn't say you said he was 100% guilty, however calling him a disgusting "person" and just from the way you've seemed to side with the accuser throughout this thread led me to believe you had determined that Ben was guilty.

[Enter Apotheosis]

Took me literally four seconds to find this on the first page of the thread:

"If I were" is not the same as "she is". There's no accusation of the supposed victim in that statement, it's merely an expression of skepticism.


My "agenda" is that people who perpetrate sex crimes receive treatment and go to jail, that those who experience it do not experience it again and get the treatment that they deserve, and that sex crimes do not happen at all. THAT is my "agenda."

Your problem is not your agenda, it is how you're pursuing your agenda in this thread. It's almost akin to vigilantism in that you're fighting for something worthwhile but going completely overboard with it to the point of being polarizing and counter-productive.


I don't know if he is guilty. He's a dumbass for sure, but I'm waiting to see where I said that he was 100% guilty.

NoGravity also never said that Roethlisberger was 100% innocent, that doesn't stop either of you from sounding like you would strongly prefer a certain outcome.

[NewCliche21]

*Please ignore the font color changes. Had to do this in Word since the site kept crashing on me*


I don't think too many people would disagree with that.


I don't think that really helps your argument as far as I'm concerned. You and I specifically have gone back and forth about that quote, and during that exchange I gave you my perception of the statement. I even broke down the statement and explained the way I perceived it. So unless Ghost comes in here and clears up this debate, I still believe you were merely using his comment as a launching pad your display of bravado (for lack of a better word).

I understand that this is a serious situation but c'mon, seriously? We're on a D.C. based messageboard, that has a large Washington Capitals contingent, and the Pens are a rival of the Caps. I feel like that was a rather innocuous, albeit inappropriate but somewhat funny, attempt at humor.

We've debated the intent of these statements once already, and it seems that you're just rehashing old arguments. As I said in our earlier discussion, which I guess you decided not to respond/read, I don't think anyone was condemning the current accuser the way you seem to suggest, they are merely reminding people what happened last time so that people don't jump to conclusions.

In-fact, in both quotes you've highlighted and pulled out the comments the person made that fit within what you want people to see, but you leave out the part where they immediately say that they'll wait to see more facts come out before they make their mind up. Seems a bit disingenuous to me.

Also if it's fair to suggest/ask "What if Ben did it" why is it unfair to ask/suggest "What if the woman was lying"?

Agenda may have been a bad choice of word, I apologize about that however I think that bias may have been a better word to use. I respect your passion for the subject, I wish more people knew as much as you do about it as it would really do a lot to help the enlighten people about the harsh reality and affects that something like this has on the victim, perpetrator, their respective families and friend.

I didn't say you said he was 100% guilty, however calling him a disgusting "person" and just from the way you've seemed to side with the accuser throughout this thread led me to believe you had determined that Ben was guilty.

We are just rehashing the same points repeatedly, as you pointed out.

Am I harsh? Absolutely? Should I be? Nah. However, this is just a news story to most people. That’s it. They check up on it once in a while, comment in a thread, and that’s it. I live this. I work 44+ hours a week with the people who are affected by this crime, who have no advocates, who are constantly berated and accused of lying. I see it. I see how the train of thought that is carried on by some posters on this board leads to depression, job losses, ineffective parenting, broken relationships, drugs, withdrawal from school, violent “romances”, pregnancies, and suicides. When I’m not getting paid squat to do it, I’m doing it for free.

No, I am not tooting my own horn, but I am admitting that I don’t always use the most polite terms. When I’m on a message board, in this forum to talk **** about the rest of the NFC East, and I come across this, I get pissed off. I won’t make excuses for it or explain it any other way. As EA says below, it can be counter-productive.

It frustrates me beyond comprehension that people think this way even though they are all affected by it. You *DO* know someone to whom this has happened, and if you were one of the posters making the kinds of posts that they do, then *YOU* are directly harming that person. I don’t think that anyone posting here is a bad person. I believe that the general societal thought is broken and that Roethlisberger is a prime example of someone who will be defended regardless of what happens.


"If I were" is not the same as "she is". There's no accusation of the supposed victim in that statement, it's merely an expression of skepticism.


Your problem is not your agenda, it is how you're pursuing your agenda in this thread. It's almost akin to vigilantism in that you're fighting for something worthwhile but going completely overboard with it to the point of being polarizing and counter-productive.

NoGravity also never said that Roethlisberger was 100% innocent, that doesn't stop either of you from sounding like you would strongly prefer a certain outcome.

You’re splitting hairs with your first and last paragraphs.

Before I get to the next paragraph, I want to apologize to anyone I've offended, including NoGravity. I don't think that anyone on here is a bad person or WANTS anyone to experience this. I also don't think that anyone WANTS Roethlisberger to "get away with this" if he is guilty.

Your second one is dead on. As I said above, this is a real issue on which society as a whole simply is not educated on. People think that these posts are innocuous, but they’re not. They affect people tremendously because they add to the problem. Just as a single vote does not decide an election, it is unlikely that any one post will damage someone to an extreme (though it might). The collective of these posts, and the thoughts that they represent, DO hurt people. That’s not an opinion; that is fact.

What do I really want as an outcome? Roethlisberger to get help either way. Stop putting himself in that position. If he has committed these crimes, then stop and get treatment. Jail time? Sure, but jail doesn’t change the problem’s source and it only pisses people off. To me, it’s not justice. I want the person who has experienced this, either way, to get treatment and not be the target of harassment, names, accusations, etc. I want the public as a whole to be educated so that misinformation doesn’t spread and people understand the power of their words. I want this all to never, ever happen again. I want to be out of a job.

THAT is what I want.

[NoGravity]

lol @ the Crosby pic

[darklight1216]

Strange development:


Cansino explains that the security videos from the evening of the incident weren't available, because the system used at the club "recorded over the footage."

"The DVD system overwrote itself," Cansino told the Tribune-Review. "Had it just been deleted, they might have been able to save some of it."

I've encountered multiple situations like this, in my technically mothballed legal career. Many businesses have security cameras, and most have a system where, eventually, the old footage automatically is replaced with new footage. Otherwise, each place of business eventually would need an NFL Films-style vault to house what amounts to, in most cases, recordings of primarily if not exclusively innocuous activity within the premises.

One of the frustrations often encountered in these cases is that nightclubs and retailers are in position to preserve the footage that advances their interests, such as video of employee misconduct, because they know to pull the images before the system covers them up with new footage. For incidents that could create liability for the business, the footage usually is long gone by the time a lawsuit is threatened or filed, since the business had no reason to save it, especially if it might be harmful to the interests of the business.

There's a huge difference in this case. The folks who run the Capital City nightclub in Milledgeville, Georgia knew immediately that an incident had occurred. Thus, the footage should have been flagged and saved, with or without a request or a subpoena.

So, yes, something stinks about this specific development. Even though there reportedly was not a camera in the vicinity of the place where the alleged incident occurred ("a staff restroom near a dingy storage corridor," the epitome of high class), other cameras could have captured images that would have provided circumstantial evidence of innocence or guilt, based on the alleged victim's demeanor before and after the incident.

If, in the end, a lawsuit is filed by the alleged victim (assuming, of course, that her failure to cooperate hasn't resulted from a confidential settlement that already has been reached), look for Capital City to face a litany of claims for failure to provide a safe and secure environment -- and look for the alleged victim's lawyer to hammer the nightclub for failing to preserve video evidence that might have been incredibly useful to the overall pursuit of the truth.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/25/curious-developments-in-case-against-roethlisberger/

Apparantly the reports that the occuser is no longer cooperating were incorrect.


Roethlisberger's accuser has not had the change of heart reported by the media, because her lawyer tells TMZ she's scheduled to be re-interviewed by cops in the sexual assault investigation.

Her reps tell us they broke their silence to correct "recent misstatements in the media," saying, "Our client is cooperating fully with law enforcement in this matter. Future interviews have been scheduled and our client will attend."

The lawyers were mum on when the sit-downs with cops will take place

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/category/ben-roethlisberger#ixzz0jDic3yH0

It's from TMZ so it must be true.

[NewCliche21]

Strange development:


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/25/curious-developments-in-case-against-roethlisberger/

Apparantly the reports that the occuser is no longer cooperating were incorrect.



Read more: http://www.tmz.com/category/ben-roethlisberger#ixzz0jDic3yH0

It's from TMZ so it must be true.

TMZ's actually pretty reliable when it comes to celebrity stuff. PFT, funnily enough, is terrible.

I just hope that they both get help regardless of the case's outcome.

[Enter Apotheosis]

You’re splitting hairs with your first and last paragraphs.

I'm not at all sure how pointing out that you and NoGravity are different sides of the same coin is splitting hairs. It was a very general observation, not a dissection of minute details.

As far as what was really your lone example of "people calling the victim a money-grubbing whore" goes, it's not splitting hairs so much as pointing out that what you called a dog is actually a pink, three-legged hippopotamus. You completely mischaracterized the post as far as I can tell.

Perhaps you should have chosen a different phrasing for what you are trying to convey because what you said, frankly, doesn't make a lot of sense to me.


Before I get to the next paragraph, I want to apologize to anyone I've offended, including NoGravity. I don't think that anyone on here is a bad person or WANTS anyone to experience this. I also don't think that anyone WANTS Roethlisberger to "get away with this" if he is guilty.

Which we can all agree with.


Your second one is dead on. As I said above, this is a real issue on which society as a whole simply is not educated on. People think that these posts are innocuous, but they’re not. They affect people tremendously because they add to the problem. Just as a single vote does not decide an election, it is unlikely that any one post will damage someone to an extreme (though it might). The collective of these posts, and the thoughts that they represent, DO hurt people. That’s not an opinion; that is fact.

Oh, I'm well-aware. I called you out on the white knight routine with good reason. The problem is never the intentions of the white knight, as those are usually good. The problem is a combination of the tactics and choice of venue the overly self-righteous crusader uses in being an advocate for and staunch defender of a given person or issue. Using the wrong tone for your specific audience, being entirely too defensive when it is not necessarily called for, and being too pushy with your message are pretty typical of someone who is absolutely going overboard trying to do what they think is right. The problem is that when you do these things it backfires in a big way. You begin to polarize people and force them to take sides, which is not good if said people don't respect your approach as they'll choose to be against you instead of against rape.

My advice and my entire point, really, is that you need to mellow out a bit. You're letting your rage at rape and the suffering of victims in general seep into your views of this particular case. It's clouding your judgment and is hurting your ability to sound thoughtful, rational, and respectful of the opinions of others, which is a big part of winning people over and ultimately making them more aware.


... THAT is what I want.

Commendable. I just feel compelled to remind you that it is not your goal but your approach in this thread that I take issue with.

[darklight1216]

TMZ's actually pretty reliable when it comes to celebrity stuff. PFT, funnily enough, is terrible.

I just hope that they both get help regardless of the case's outcome.
I wasn't kidding when I said that. TMZ really does know everything about this case. PFT maybe faster than some other media sources (except for perhaps TMZ) but they are very opinionated.

[TheItalianStallion]

NewCliche, can you provide a link(s) to these studies which show that 90% of rapes go unreported? I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, I just want to take a look at these studies myself, as I have a hard time believing that the 90% number can be reliably quantified.

Your points regarding trauma are all perfectly legit. One of my friends has a gf who was raped at age 13. She's a devout catholic, and as such, she believes in no sex until marriage. She fears that she'll be going to hell now that she's been raped, and even today is uncomfortable around males.

[NewCliche21]

NewCliche, can you provide a link(s) to these studies which show that 90% of rapes go unreported? I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, I just want to take a look at these studies myself, as I have a hard time believing that the 90% number can be reliably quantified.

Your points regarding trauma are all perfectly legit. One of my friends has a gf who was raped at age 13. She's a devout catholic, and as such, she believes in no sex until marriage. She fears that she'll be going to hell now that she's been raped, and even today is uncomfortable around males.

What a powerfully brave woman. Unfortunately, society does not help quell her fears, and neither does the Church.

I'll post more sources as I find them (I'm at home and my research binder is back at my parents' house), but here's something from the DOJ regarding undergraduates specifically: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij/topics/crime/rape-sexual-violence/campus/know-attacker.htm

RAINN has different stats, but remember that mine are skewed by the undergraduate focus: http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/reporting-rates

No easier in the military (I have these numbers in actual journals/Pentagon reports somewhere in that binder): http://civiliancontractors.wordpress.com/2010/03/02/pentagon-estimates-90-of-sexual-assaults-go-unreported/

[darklight1216]

More on the disappearing footage:



The source told Naqi that many of the club's security cameras are focused on the main dance floor area. The value of any footage obtained from those recordings would have been to see the demeanor of the accuser and her friends as they made their exit from the club, the source told Naqi.
The source also said that Duncan viewed the footage from the output of those cameras from the night in question, but said it was hard for Duncan to determine much from the footage because there were a couple of hundred people in the club and the footage is in black and white.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5026596

What the videos may have contained probably might be irrelevant now, but the cops said that his accuser was hysterical. However, I remember reading that one of her friends said she looked normal when she came out.

Edit: I can't seem to find the link to that article, but it doesn't matter...

In other news:


WTAE-TV reports late this week that Ben Roethlisberger’s sexual assault accuser recently attended a “sorority retreat” in the North Georgia mountains and plans to go back to school soon...

With the way things are going for Roethlisberger in this case, those seemingly mundane details might end up part of a case the quarterback’s attorney is building against the accuser if the QB is eventually charged with a crime.

I say that because based on the information made available to the public, along with the actions of Roethlisberger attorney Ed Garland, it appears the quarterback’s counsel views the background of the accuser as perhaps the most critical component of a possible court proceeding. Otherwise Garland wouldn’t have hurriedly hired high-profile private investigator Charles Middlestadt to presumably dig into the accuser’s personal life.

http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/big-ben-accuser-back-to-school-and-sorority-life-28056
(Hopefully, none of those girls in the picture is his accuser.)

[Destino]

Shooting from the hip here. Looking at how Roethlisberger is behaving I'd say there is something to this accusation. He's not running to the camera's to angrily proclaim his innocence like he did last time. The team is distancing itself from him. He immediately went heavy on the defense and investigation budget. Hasn't fully cooperated with police (which is a smart legal tactic).

I'm certainly not saying he's guilty. I have no way of determining guilt. What I am saying is that this isn't playing out like a BS no big deal crazy accusation. The club accidentally losing the footage isn't a good sign either. It benefits the club for there NOT to have been a rape and if the tapes showed that or suggested that they'd have them locked up in a bank safe to use in their own defense.

[darklight1216]

Shooting from the hip here. Looking at how Roethlisberger is behaving I'd say there is something to this accusation. He's not running to the camera's to angrily proclaim his innocence like he did last time. The team is distancing itself from him. He immediately went heavy on the defense and investigation budget. Hasn't fully cooperated with police (which is a smart legal tactic).

I'm certainly not saying he's guilty. I have no way of determining guilt. What I am saying is that this isn't playing out like a BS no big deal crazy accusation. The club accidentally losing the footage isn't a good sign either. It benefits the club for there NOT to have been a rape and if the tapes showed that or suggested that they'd have them locked up in a bank safe to use in their own defense.
I'm not saying that I disagree with that, but it doesn't sound like there was much on the video. I'm pretty sure that there were no cameras in the bathroom.

[tonyriggins]

What about suspension? Does Commissioner Goodell still dock him a few games even if charges are not filed? He has a good case by the standard of his personal code of conduct policy, but someday an NFL player will challege he on doing this.

[darklight1216]

What about suspension? Does Commissioner Goodell still dock him a few games even if charges are not filed? He has a good case by the standard of his personal code of conduct policy, but someday an NFL player will challege he on doing this.
After two allegations in less than a year, Goodell has yet to even meet with Ben. I don't think he'll be suspended unless charges are filed.

[Destino]

I'm not saying that I disagree with that, but it doesn't sound like there was much on the video. I'm pretty sure that there were no cameras in the bathroom.

Footage of her leaving would be relevant and I don't think she jumped out a bathroom window.

[tonyriggins]

After two allegations in less than a year, Goodell has yet to even meet with Ben. I don't think he'll be suspended unless charges are filed.

Oh I dont think Goodell has a choice if he doesnt do anything, then it looks like the code of conduct does not apply to certain players! Ben gets one game for sure.

[darklight1216]

Footage of her leaving would be relevant and I don't think she jumped out a bathroom window.
Of course, she didn't jump out the window, but the assault allegedly happened in the bathroom so the cameras wouldn't have been any good for absolutely conclusive evidence imho. If you look at my earlier post, the cameras were apparantly black and white and it was difficult to determine very much from them.

Oh I dont think Goodell has a choice if he doesnt do anything, then it looks like the code of conduct does not apply to certain players! Ben gets one game for sure.
Ben has yet to be charged with either sexual assault so Goodell doesn't really have to anything until/unless that changes. If the case is dropped, I could easily Ben getting off without any punishment from the NFL, but that's just my opinion.

[NewCliche21]

Doubting that this is an April Fool's joke:


Four weeks after an alleged incident of sexual assault, police in Milledgeville, Georgia soon will present the case involving Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger to the local district attorney, according to WPXI-TV in Pittsburgh.

The prosecutor, as explained in our latest PFTV segment, will then consider whether there's enough evidence to justify the filing of charges.

The decision won't depend on whether the prosecutor thinks Ben is guilty. The question is whether the prosecutor thinks that a conviction can be obtained under the very high standard of proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

In this regard, the prosecutor has considerable discretion. And if that discretion is exercised in favor of pursuing charges, Roethlisberger's life will be turned upside down -- regardless of whether he ultimately is found guilty.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/01/milledgeville-police-will-soon-send-roethlisberger-case-to-prosecutor/?related=1


People who make their livings as spokesmen are usually very careful in how they choose their words. That's especially true when they're addressing issues as serious as potential criminal charges against a public figure.

So it's a little surprising to see the way the spokesman for the Georgia Bureau of Investigation lashed out at members of the media covering the Ben Roethlisberger sexual assault investigation.

John Bankhead, spokesman for the Georgia Bureau of Investigation in Atlanta, told Dan Majors of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette that members of the media who have questioned the Bureau's handling of the Roethlisberger case are going to look foolish when the full scope of the investigation comes to light.

"There are a lot of people out there reporting things and repeating things that just are not true," Bankhead said. "They'll be eating crow later. It may taste delicious like Thanksgiving turkey now, but later on, when the facts come out, it'll taste like eating crow."

It's not clear which reports Bankhead is referring to. It's also not clear why Bankhead feels the need to call out unnamed members of the media now, rather than wait until the Bureau can reveal its findings and let the investigation speak for itself.

Asked if investigators have encountered any difficulties, Bankhead replied, "No, other than with the media."

Bankhead added that people who believe the investigation is moving slowly "don't understand our procedures."

Clearly he doesn't read ES.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/02/georgia-bureau-of-investigation-media-will-be-eating-crow/

Let the spin machine begin!

[darklight1216]

^ You don't hear that from a spokesman every day. :silly:

I saw the first thing on Espn so I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with April Fools Day. That would be crass.

I can't say that I've heard anything about the media questioning the investigators... Might be a local thing.

[SkinsBry]

http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/big-ben-accuser-back-to-school-and-sorority-life-28056
(Hopefully, none of those girls in the picture is his accuser.)

I don't know, the one on the left has a nice rack and none of them are butt ugly.

I got a chuckle out of the devil shirt he's wearing though.

[NewCliche21]

^ You don't hear that from a spokesman every day. :silly:

I saw the first thing on Espn so I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with April Fools Day. That would be crass.

I can't say that I've heard anything about the media questioning the investigators... Might be a local thing.

Nah, the whole media coverage has had a lot of people saying, including in this thread, "Oh, it's taking so long because they don't have anything on him."

From what I can tell, it's a swipe at that.

[darklight1216]

The Ben Roethlisberger sexual assault investigation is complete ... except for one Big thing.

Milledgeville

Police Chief Woodrow Blue tells TMZ they've completed their investigation -- including a follow-up interview with the alleged victim -- but they'd still like to button it up with a follow-up interview with Big Ben. Problem is -- Ben's not talking.

So assuming Ben exercises his right to remain silent, the Chief is still kosher with the case -- kinda sorta. We asked Chief Blue if he's satisfied, and he said, "Yeah, I guess."

Ben's lawyer isn't talking about why Ben isn't talking.

As for when a decision will be made on whether to prosecute the Pittsburgh Steelers QB, we're told the Georgia Bureau of Investigation will make that call ... "soon."
Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2010/04/06/ben-roethlisberger-sexual-assault-investigation-pittsburgh-steelers/#ixzz0kMbk3fa1

Does anyone know how long it usually takes to make a decision like this?

[NewCliche21]

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2010/04/06/ben-roethlisberger-sexual-assault-investigation-pittsburgh-steelers/#ixzz0kMbk3fa1

Does anyone know how long it usually takes to make a decision like this?


Completely case-by-case. An investigation isn't done until it's done, and the prosecutor, for such a high-profile trial, will be going over every little thing.

[darklight1216]

Completely case-by-case. An investigation isn't done until it's done, and the prosecutor, for such a high-profile trial, will be going over every little thing.
I see. Well I'm going to take a wild guess and say that Ben will not be charged.

[darklight1216]

Monday is the big day:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5070273


MILLEDGEVILLE, Ga. -- A district attorney in Georgia plans to announce Monday whether he will file charges in a case of sexual assault accusations against Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger.

District Attorney Fred Bright said in a statement Friday he has reviewed all the investigation reports and will hold a news conference at 2 p.m. ET to announce his decision.

Someone on another forum made the suggestion that the DA probably wouldn't wait until after the weekend if they weren't going to press charges since that would be like drawing attention to a failure. I don't know if that is true, but it's something to consider.

[TotalRecall]

Monday is the big day:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5070273



Someone on another forum made the suggestion that the DA probably wouldn't wait until after the weekend if they weren't going to press charges since that would be like drawing attention to a failure. I don't know if that is true, but it's something to consider.

Intentionally or unintentionally, they screwed-up the investigation. I bet it's only a he said/she said thing now.

[darklight1216]

Intentionally or unintentionally, they screwed-up the investigation. I bet it's only a he said/she said thing now.
Just how did they "screw up" the investigation? Most rape cases are he said/she said so that's not a big surprise.

[NoGravity]

Big Ben won't be charged.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/11458/report-big-ben-wont-be-charged

endthread.

But yeah sigh of relief for Steelers fans. Definitely the most valuable player on our offense and probably 2nd to Troy on our team.

[LeesburgSkinFan]

Another money-grubbing ho...

[GaryGreenMonk]

Another money-grubbing ho...

i don't know man...

where there's smoke.. there's fire.

all NFL players have a lot of money...

Ben's the only one that's been accused of rape twice.

[pjfootballer]

Another money-grubbing ho...

Hmmm....happened to the same guy twice, but not to other athletes twice. Maybe Mr. R got the big ego that he could bag any chick he wanted without repercussions. Maybe he's a tail chasing man ho...

[NewCliche21]

Another money-grubbing ho...

:doh:

Because she's seeking anything monetary? Because any other athlete is being accused like he is? Because she wanted to press charges?

And people wonder why I get pissed off in threads like these.

[skinsfan_1215]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?id=5078977

Just because he wasn't charged doesn't mean he didn't do it... There just wasn't enough evidence to get a conviction.


Question: What were the key factors in the prosecutor's decision not to charge Roethlisberger?

Answer: Two factors were critical.

First, the victim was, according to Bright, "highly intoxicated" after an evening of barhopping and drinking shots with her sorority sisters. With the details of the incident lost in a fog of intoxication, prosecutors are reluctant to file charges. Although the law requires that Roethlisberger's behavior would be the central issue in any trial on a sexual assault charge, prosecutors know that jurors are reluctant to convict when the accuser is shown to be guilty of any form of risky or contributory behavior. If jurors sensed that the accuser was in a brownout or blackout stage of intoxication, they would quickly decide on a not guilty verdict.

Second, there was no evidence of the forcible penetration that is required for the Georgia definition of rape. Bright was unusually specific in his description of the definition's requirements and in his statement that there was not enough material to obtain a sample for DNA testing. Like most states, Georgia law requires "forcible penetration" that is done "against the will" of the accuser. It is known as "carnal knowledge."

With the accuser's intoxication and little evidence of carnal knowledge -- forcible penetration against the will of the accuser -- Bright's decision was easy.


Q: Will we ever know the details of what happened in the bathroom of the Capital City nightclub early on the morning of March 5?

A: Probably not. We know that Roethlisberger's bodyguard led the accuser down a hall to the employees' bathroom and stood guard outside the door while they were in the bathroom. We know that the bathroom is tiny and filthy. We know the victim had bruises and a laceration in her genital area when examined at the hospital. And we know that there was not enough semen or other bodily evidence to show that there was carnal knowledge or penetration. Was it consensual? Was it consensual for a time until consent was withdrawn? We do not know, and we may not ever know.

Q: How important was the lack of DNA evidence in the prosecutor's decision?

A: It was a more important factor than Bright indicated in his news conference. Bright minimized its importance as he explained his decision. Bright suggested that although the swabs from the emergency room rape kit contained some male DNA, it was not a sufficiently large amount to permit DNA testing. If there had been enough DNA for testing and the tests showed that it was Roethlisberger's semen, it would have been important evidence. If the tests had shown it was not Roethlisberger's DNA, then the evidence would have been conclusive.

Q: Is this vindication for Roethlisberger? Can he now say that he was wrongfully investigated?

A: No. Bright deliberately and emphatically stated that "we do not condone what Roethlisberger did." If anyone had any doubt of Bright's evaluation of Roethlisberger's behavior, Bright made it very clear when he added, "we do not prosecute morals. We prosecute crimes." Bright's observations on Roethlisberger's conduct will be major factors when Roethlisberger meets with Goodell and his team ownership.

[Mooka]

Good grief, how many girls and bathrooms have there been? Sounds like Ben does this regularly.


As for the details, apparently the girl said she didn't want to press charges. I wonder if she's gearing up for her civil case or if she's been paid off.

[Soup]

I don't know, I gues I'll lose my man card for this but Its not cool to just get a chick completely wasted and take advantage of her. :2cents: