U.S. Broadband Speed (we rank relatively low)--FCC wants 100 Mpbs by 2010--links included

[Jumbo]

First, let me save the peanut gallery from potential issues by stating that the thread is not based on a single specific article or media source (though links are included) hence the title is not formatted as such. :)

I was discussing this matter yesterday with an IT professional/friend---how ever since getting deep into my first career it has seemed odd to me how the U.S. for all it's technological power was often behind in various areas of popular consumer electronics and related technology than many of their counterparts in Europe/Asia--much having to do with the U.S. market being different of course.

We covered this specific broadband matter in our talk, as he works with university databases that I often use.

I have thought it odd for awhile now that we were so behind a number of other nations in broadband download rates. But I didn't know some of the countries that were ahead of us--Romania? I mean I'd expect Latveria, with Dr. Doom and all, but Romania? I though they were too busy spending all their time in the gym to care about the internet :ols:

So the FCC is calling (like they did with HDTV) for us to catch up. 100 mbps sounds good to me. Working with hi-def video, tele-conferencing, and other matters (especially future situations) would be so enhanced

This morning, Ali B. (CNN) was talking about the same matter as my friend and I, so I did a quick check for links:

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/20100216/fcc-to-propose-faster-broadband-speeds.htm

Here's a two year old link (we've slipped a couple notches since) comparing speeds:

http://www.atelier-us.com/international/article/us-broadband-100-years-slower-than-japans


Other related links:

http://www.brookings.edu/reports/2010/0223_broadband_west.aspx

http://www.ibtimes.co.in/articles/20100118/uk-ranks-no26-global-broadband-speed.htm

[RFKFedEx]

ES HOFers shouldn't make mistakes!

Timeout corner for Jumbo.

[StillUnknown]

is that going to help us transition to the 3-4? :silly:

[HOF44]

A rare sight. A Jumbo Fail!

Happens to the best of us. lol

[Jumbo]

Wrong screen when I hit "enter". :)

[zoony]

whoops :)

As for the thread topic- just want to point out that developing countries tend to adopt new technologies much faster than established countries.

For instance- China was WAY ahead of everyone in cell phones. The reason? They had no real infrastructure of land-based communication that exists in much of the west. So it was easy for them to just plow all their resources into the emerging technology- no need to keep up with an aging land-based network.

But, should be an interesting discussion

[Jumbo]

A reminder I should be focusing on the work I'm paid to do. :D

[Jumbo]

whoops :)

As for the thread topic- just want to point out that developing countries tend to adopt new technologies much faster than established countries.

For instance- China was WAY ahead of everyone in cell phones. The reason? They had no real infrastructure of land-based communication that exists in much of the west. So it was easy for them to just plow all their resources into the emerging technology- no need to keep up with an aging land-based network.

But, should be an interesting discussion

You were fast, too, I didn't even have time right after submitting it to correct what I did. Excellent work. :ols:

[zoony]

You were fast, too, I didn't even have time right after submitting it to correct what I did. Excellent work. :ols:


:supes:

[ibarramedia]

whoops :)

As for the thread topic- just want to point out that developing countries tend to adopt new technologies much faster than established countries.

For instance- China was WAY ahead of everyone in cell phones. The reason? They had no real infrastructure of land-based communication that exists in much of the west. So it was easy for them to just plow all their resources into the emerging technology- no need to keep up with an aging land-based network.

But, should be an interesting discussion


That is also the same reason why the Philippines is the texting capital of the world. Funny thing is some of my employees said that some of their clients knew of a lot of really poor people who could not afford a tv, radio, etc but had prepaid cellphones over there. :whoknows: :whoknows:

[GibbsFactor]

Zoony nailed it. Our infrastructure was grounded on first generation technology. Really all there is to it. Also, trying to get a country the size of Romania up and running is a much smaller task, literally, then a country as vast as the US.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Zoony nailed it. Our infrastructure was grounded on first generation technology. Really all there is to it. Also, trying to get a country the size of Romania up and running is a much smaller task, literally, then a country as vast as the US.

That was my first thought too...we're a relatively big country so there are a lot of nooks and crannies to have to account for.

[Destino]

It's a typical failure of a capitalist structure and certainly a major weakness it has compared to socialism. The more socialist an economy the more the government can focus resources onto specific initiatives. In capitalism this happens, if at all, piece by piece with some being left behind for extended periods of time. IMO the ideal scenario is a mixed economy (which we are and in fact every advanced nation is) that keeps corporations moving forward without bankrupting too many of them.

It's also reflective of US attitudes towards spending on infrastructure. American's are all about building hospitals in Iraq or dropping billions on military spending but completely freak out at the thought of spending billions to upgrade the home front. We have some of the worst mass transit and rail systems amongst advanced democracies.

Without a government push the US will fall further behind. There is no real incentive to push high speed providers in the US. The competition is weak here and they are able to get away with charging some of the highest prices for some of the slowest speeds... all without having to spend a dollar on system wide upgrades. The US needs to catch up because let's face it, infrastructure spurs business and investment. The faster and cheaper you can get access to stuff and information the easier it is for business to do it's thing.

[China]

Zoony nailed it. Our infrastructure was grounded on first generation technology. Really all there is to it. Also, trying to get a country the size of Romania up and running is a much smaller task, literally, then a country as vast as the US.

This was my thought as well. I notice the top countries in one of the articles Jumbo provided:


1. Japan, 63.6
2. South Korea, 49.5
3. Finland, 21.7
4. France, 17.6
5. Sweden, 16.8
6. The Netherlands, 8.8
7. Portugal, 8.1
8. Poland, 7.9
9. Norway, 7.7
10. Canada, 7.6
11. Austria, 7.2
12. Belgium, 6.3
13. Iceland, 6.1
14. Germany, 6.0

I don't see any large countries. No U.S., China, India, Russia, Brazil. Size matters.

[jnhay]

It's Mbps. I'd love to win that Google contest where they set up a 1 Gbps network in the winning city.

[GibbsFactor]

It's a typical failure of a capitalist structure and certainly a major weakness it has compared to socialism. The more socialist an economy the more the government can focus resources onto specific initiatives. In capitalism this happens, if at all, piece by piece with some being left behind for extended periods of time. IMO the ideal scenario is a mixed economy (which we are and in fact every advanced nation is) that keeps corporations moving forward without bankrupting too many of them.

It's also reflective of US attitudes towards spending on infrastructure. American's are all about building hospitals in Iraq or dropping billions on military spending but completely freak out at the thought of spending billions to upgrade the home front. We have some of the worst mass transit and rail systems amongst advanced democracies.

Without a government push the US will fall further behind. There is no real incentive to push high speed providers in the US. The competition is weak here and they are able to get away with charging some of the highest prices for some of the slowest speeds... all without having to spend a dollar on system wide upgrades. The US needs to catch up because let's face it, infrastructure spurs business and investment. The faster and cheaper you can get access to stuff and information the easier it is for business to do it's thing.

Plus, you can be a lazy ***** surfing the interwebz on your 6 month paid sabbatical while that one capitalistic nation keeps the wheels of innovation turning.

:saber:

[greenspandan]

This was my thought as well. I notice the top countries in one of the articles Jumbo provided:


1. Japan, 63.6
2. South Korea, 49.5
3. Finland, 21.7
4. France, 17.6
5. Sweden, 16.8
6. The Netherlands, 8.8
7. Portugal, 8.1
8. Poland, 7.9
9. Norway, 7.7
10. Canada, 7.6
11. Austria, 7.2
12. Belgium, 6.3
13. Iceland, 6.1
14. Germany, 6.0

I don't see any large countries. No U.S., China, India, Russia, Brazil. Size matters.

psst -- canada is bigger than the U.S., europe is more populous, and many of the countries above us are less densely populated than us.

sure you can make excuses about early adopting or the size of our country (neither of which set us that far apart from, say, europe or canada) but the fact of the matter is that we have CRAP for infrastructure because of our government's willingness to tolerate monopolies, and refusal to encourage competition. in europe, for example, there is genuine competition between ISPs because access to the physical lines are open to any competitor. the end result is a BETTER PRODUCT for the consumer. unfortunately, the more conservative american philosophy -- that the invisible hand of the market will fix everything naturally -- is proving a naive fantasy when we allow individual corporations to gain an advantage and exploit it without benefit to the consumer.

[Destino]

Plus, you can be a lazy ***** surfing the interwebz on your 6 month paid sabbatical while that one capitalistic nation keeps the wheels of innovation turning.

:saber:

Yeah the paid time off in some of the more heavily socialist states is whacky. I'm always surprised when I read about some of the stuff coming out of France for example.

[greenspandan]

in canada, if you are employed and have a baby, you get 15 weeks of paid maternity leave, plus 35 weeks of parental leave shared with the father.

in america, you're lucky if you don't get fired.

(apologies for the off-topic post)

[PokerPacker]

psst -- canada is bigger than the U.S.

Nope. That's just just an illusion from the distortion of a spherical object to a flat surface.

United states: 3,794,101 sq mi
Canada: 3,559,294 sq mi

Woo, go USA!

[Destino]

unfortunately, the more conservative american philosophy -- that the invisible hand of the market will fix everything naturally -- is proving a naive fantasy when we allow individual corporations to gain an advantage and exploit it without benefit to the consumer.
The invisible hand fixing things is too funny. It's amazing so many people believe that. A quick glance at capitalism absent a government strongly enforcing antitrust and at times forcing a march foward capitalism creates an aristocracy in the corporate world that, like all those before it, defends itself by limiting the growth of anyone beneath it.

Having said that a mixed economy that leans capitalist provides more opportunity for the average citizen than does one that leans the other way. If the goal is simply to secure an average middle class status perhaps not, but I'll sacrifice a larger safety net for a better chance to hit it big gladly.

[Destino]

in canada, if you are employed and have a baby, you get 15 weeks of paid maternity leave, plus 35 weeks of parental leave shared with the father.

in america, you're lucky if you don't get fired.

(apologies for the off-topic post)
If you happen to employ that individual what do you do? Just curious. For example say I have a small business and I have the money to hire 3 people. If one of them leaves for 15 weeks (28% of the year) what do I do?

And how does this parental leave work? 35 weeks is a long time.

[greenspandan]

Nope. That's just just an illusion from the distortion of a spherical object to a flat surface.

United states: 3,794,101 sq mi
Canada: 3,559,294 sq mi

Woo, go USA!

not sure where you are getting those numbers, but wikipedia says:

Canada: 3,854,085 sq mi
USA: 3,794,101 sq mi

and encyclopedia brittanica concurs.

[greenspandan]

If you happen to employ that individual what do you do? Just curious. For example say I have a small business and I have the money to hire 3 people. If one of them leaves for 15 weeks (28% of the year) what do I do?

And how does this parental leave work? 35 weeks is a long time.

i don't know. i suspect the gov't subsidizes it. just a guess, though.

[GibbsFactor]

not sure where you are getting those numbers, but wikipedia says:

Canada: 3,854,085 sq mi
USA: 3,794,101 sq mi

and encyclopedia brittanica concurs.

How many of those Canadian square miles are even populated much less have broadband capability?

:doh:

[PokerPacker]

not sure where you are getting those numbers, but wikipedia says:

Canada: 3,854,085 sq mi
USA: 3,794,101 sq mi

and encyclopedia brittanica concurs.

Interesting. Well by those numbers, difference in size is practically negligible. Either way, I think we can agree that Canada would not be counted as a small country.

However, pure size and pure population don't tell the whole story.

[greenspandan]

Interesting. Well by those numbers, difference in size is practically negligible. Either way, I think we can agree that Canada would not be counted as a small country.

However, pure size and pure population don't tell the whole story.

my point is that size and population are no excuse. there are both denser-populated and sparser-populated countries ahead of us on the list, and there are both larger countries and smaller countries ahead of us. there are both developing nations, and mature, technologically advanced nations such as canada/germany/south korea and they're all kicking our butt in terms of broadband speed for no particularly great or insurmountable reason.

[Destino]

How many of those Canadian square miles are even populated much less have broadband capability?

:doh:

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. They have a lot of polar bear habitat.

[China]

Oh, and by the way, of Canada's square mileage, 291,578 of it is water. For the US, that figure is 181,522. I think that can be safely subtracted.

I purposely ignored Canada because much of it is unpopulated.

The US has a population of 308,878,000 compared to 34,035,000 for Canada; almost 10 times as many people in an equivalent area. The amount of infrastructure needing to be upgraded is therefore not even close.

[heyholetsgogrant]

Thanks Bush...Verizon charges an arm and a leg for 50MB, I cant imagine how much 100 will cost.

-Grant

[jnhay]

Thanks Bush...Verizon charges an arm and a leg for 50MB, I cant imagine how much 100 will cost.

-Grant

50MB is blazing. I'm sure 100Mb would be much cheaper.

[GibbsFactor]

The US telephone system is 100 years old in many metro regions. The coax is 40 years old in some places.

The price for being first is that it's hard to keep up when other countries implement newer generations.

[SkinnedAussie]

If you happen to employ that individual what do you do? Just curious. For example say I have a small business and I have the money to hire 3 people. If one of them leaves for 15 weeks (28% of the year) what do I do?

And how does this parental leave work? 35 weeks is a long time.

Do what any smart business would do and NOT employ any female of child bearing age. That will save you 15 weeks of paid leave right there!

[SkinnedAussie]

At one stage, Australia was ranked in the bottom 5 for broadband speed, but ranked inside the top 10 for cost per household.

ATM, I'm paying A$69.95 per month for 12GB download at 1500 kbps. Once we reach our monthly 12GB limit, we are throttled back to 256kbps, but not charged for anything over the 12GB.

[zoony]

Do what any smart business would do and NOT employ any female of child bearing age. That will save you 15 weeks of paid leave right there!


It's always amusing to me to see the unintended consequences of do-gooder social programs.

Government to business: You MUST give your female employees 35 weeks off.

Business to Government: Okay. (never hires another young female again)


Good job government, now you've created a demographic that can't find work :ols:


.....

[Johnny Punani]

Nope. That's just just an illusion from the distortion of a spherical object to a flat surface.

United states: 3,794,101 sq mi
Canada: 3,559,294 sq mi

Woo, go USA!

greespandan fail

[greenspandan]

Oh, and by the way, of Canada's square mileage, 291,578 of it is water. For the US, that figure is 181,522. I think that can be safely subtracted.

I purposely ignored Canada because much of it is unpopulated.

The US has a population of 308,878,000 compared to 34,035,000 for Canada; almost 10 times as many people in an equivalent area. The amount of infrastructure needing to be upgraded is therefore not even close.

why is that an issue? we have ten times as many people to do the upgrading. population is just another dumb excuse. our GDP dwarfs canada's. there's no reason we can't spend as much per capita.

[greenspandan]

greespandan fail

uh, read the thread. Johnny Punani fail.

[LaxBuddy21]

Thanks Bush...Verizon charges an arm and a leg for 50MB, I cant imagine how much 100 will cost.

-Grant

This is the sole reason I do not have a smartphone yet. I refuse to pay more for internet for my cell phone than I pay for internet for my house...

[jnhay]

This is the sole reason I do not have a smartphone yet. I refuse to pay more for internet for my cell phone than I pay for internet for my house...

You're not going to get 50Mb/s on your cellphone either.

[MattFancy]

This is the sole reason I do not have a smartphone yet. I refuse to pay more for internet for my cell phone than I pay for internet for my house...

You don't have a smart phone because you're an old geezer who doesn't believe in them!

[Destino]

You're not going to get 50Mb/s on your cellphone either.

if I did I'd tether that bad boy and cancel my home internet account lol

[jnhay]

if I did I'd tether that bad boy and cancel my home internet account lol

After posting that, I looked up 4G expected speeds. I had no idea they were planning to provide 100Mb/s with 50Mb/s upload speeds. What could a cellphone user send that requires 50Mb/s upload speeds (unless you tether it)?

[Destino]

After posting that, I looked up 4G expected speeds. I had no idea they were planning to provide 100Mb/s with 50Mb/s upload speeds. What could a cellphone user send that requires 50Mb/s upload speeds (unless you tether it)?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGkvXp0vdng

[LaxBuddy21]

You don't have a smart phone because you're an old geezer who doesn't believe in them!

True but my wife would have one so she can spend every waking moment on facebook. At that price, not happening!