ESPN: Mosley - Tap The Breaks On Redskins Playoff Talks

[TheLongshot]

A bit of a reality check...

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/21139/tap-the-brakes-on-redskins-playoff-talk


Pardon me for not getting caught up in the apparent playoff euphoria that is sweeping Redskins Park. My esteemed colleague and pal John Clayton has elevated the Washington Redskins to "co-favorite" status, along with the Dallas Cowboys, to win the NFC East.

Sorry, but I'm not there yet. Clayton points out that the addition of Brett Favre to the Vikings added 5.7 points per game and took them from 10 to 12 wins (and an NFC title game appearance).

My issue with that comparison is that McNabb won't have anywhere near the talent surrounding him that Favre enjoyed. The Vikings had the best running back in the league heading into the 2009 season. The Redskins counter with a stable of running backs who each peaked about four years ago (yes, I realize Clinton Portis was good in 2008 but he faded late).

And let's not act like drafting Oklahoma State left tackle Russell Okung in this month's draft is going to completely fix one of the worst offensive lines in the league. What, did you guys get excited about that Artis Hicks signing? He couldn't start for the Vikings last season but I guess he'll get the Redskins to the next level.

By trading for McNabb, Shanahan's acting as if the Redskins are prepared to win now. You don't pay an aging quarterback $11.2 million in 2010 to be a stopgap player. To me, this smacks of the old Dan Snyder way of doing business. McNabb is a blockbuster name like, say, Deion Sanders or Bruce Smith. It sounds like another expensive shortcut, albeit a highly-intriguing one.

But let's not forget McNabb finished up his '09 campaign by playing miserably in back-to-back losses to the Cowboys. Are the Redskins a better team with McNabb at quarterback? Of course they are. But it's hard to imagine him making a seven-win difference -- and that's what it would probably take to challenge for a division title. Clayton immediately has the Redskins leap-frogging the Eagles with this move.

"As for the Eagles, who were 11-5 last season, the pressure falls on the unproven quarterback Kevin Kolb," writes Clayton. "With this being his first year as the full-time starter, we can expect a two- or three-win drop in the Eagles' record because first-year starters have difficulty winning close games. The Packers experienced that after they traded Favre to the New York Jets for a second-round choice in 2008. Even though Aaron Rodgers threw for more than 4,000 yards in 2008, he struggled in the fourth quarter of close games, and the Packers dropped from 13-3 to 6-10."

Again, the good news for Eagles fans is that McNabb isn't exactly inheriting the Fun Bunch. Santana Moss still has breakaway speed, but he needs time to get open. And let's not act like McNabb's the same guy who once kept a play alive for 14 seconds on "Monday Night Football" against the Cowboys. In Philadelphia, McNabb played the majority of his career with offensive tackles Tra Thomas and Jon Runyan. He'll likely be breaking in a rookie on his blindside in 2010 and the pedestrian Stephon Heyer will man the right side.

This is certainly a fascinating trade in terms of its impact on two franchises, but to say that Washington and Dallas are the co-favorites in the division is a pretty big stretch.

[terrifNick21]

Mosley being negative about the Redskins. Nothing new here...

[Warhead36]

Mosley is pretty much spot on. It makes us a better team now yes but it's really not a trade that a rebuilding team should be making.

[jpyaks3]

Mosley being negative about the Redskins. Nothing new here...

I would say being realistic.

The offensive line is still atrocious the secondary depth is still spotty and there are 3 running backs that are past their primes and on the wrong side of their careers. And the defense is switching over to a 3-4 which usually takes some time. I can't see the Redskins being more than an 8-8 team and that won't win the division.

[IONTOP]

I think he hit the nail on the head... We were never 1 player away from the playoffs... I think that all this does is let Dan Snyder go along with drafting an O lineman in the draft, so that in the future if Clausen does become an elite QB, he can say "well we drafted McNabb before the draft, so we couldn't take a QB"

[ciresolstice]

It does feel like a move/fix for now and not for the future at all, and this teem has needs. Will wait and see how it all unfolds. No doubt he improves the QB position for us by a bit...but we have to protect him an the O line is seriously lacking.

[Soup]

He's just jealous :silly:

[Perky72]

Not going to comment on making the playoffs or our ranking. But it's possible McNabb elevates his receivers in the same way Favre or Manning do. Maclin and Jackson had combined for one pro season prior to '09, Celek two. If McNabb does make his receivers better, Moss/Cooley/Davis/Kelly/Thomas aren't a bad lot.

Also, Zorn's playcalling stifled all of them, apparent when Lewis took over. Not only is McNabb a better QB, but Shanahan is a better offensive mind. There should be improvement...playoff-level though? Not likely with our O-line, but it's possible. And the off-season has plenty of room for more moves.

[MontanaSkins]

I am all for this trade. On that note I don't think it puts our Skins into any elite status. But with McNabb and Shanny we won't be embarrassed on Sundays like last year. I also think if McNabb gets a running game he has 3 or 4 years left and years 2-4 the Skins could be competing for a Super Bowl.

Disclaimer: I am a huge kool-aid drinking homer who might be getting a McNabb jersey for my birthday next month.

[Oldskool]

McNabb is a considerable upgrade at QB, but this team won't be an analogue to Minny unless we can fix the OL and that will take 1-2 years.

[scruffylookin]

He's right. This move (assuming it's not a prelude to a bigger move for Bradford) reeks of bad Skins moves of the past. This new regime just lost it's honeymoon period as far as I'm concerned.

[skinsfan3880]

Mosely is a hack hes nothing more than a cowboys homer working at espn. I believe if the skins went out and got Adrian Peterson. Brandon marshall and every stud offenseive lineman you could think of we would still be slated by him to finish dead last and get embarrased by the cowboys.

In other words Matt Mosely Can stuff it

[Destino]

Who was floored by the Vikings receiving corp prior to Favre's arrival. The great S Rice had about 150 yards receiving the year prior. So don't give me that crap about talent. Favre might have made the super bowl if not for the great running back the Vikes have in the backfield developing a serious case of the fumbles.

BTW - The best running back in the league plays in Tennessee and they didn't make the post season. It's a QB league the smash mouth days are long gone. Even the Jets needed some crazy performances from their rookie to advance... only Baltimore seems to win in the post season with bad QB play.

He is right about one thing. The Skins need TWO (as in more than one) STARTING tackles. Do you people have any idea how hard that is to come by? One is a problem. Two requires such poor planning that you rarely see it happen. Our line is missing the two most important players on it. (friggin Vinnie!!!) Come to think of it he's right about another thing... this does look like the same old thing from the skins. Put it to you think way the 2010 draft hasn't happened and we've already lost a 2011 pick. I wonder if we'll ever keep them all or, dare I say it, have more than 7 picks.

[Jimbo]

Clayton may be showing the love but it's not like Redskins fans everywhere are proclaiming playoffs so I'm not sure what Mosley is even taling about here.

[hitmandm]

McNabb is a turd. Even Shanny won't be able to polish it. The odds Shanny stays 5 years just got smaller when McNabb busts out, gets injured and flames like an old sucky QB.

[thesubmittedone]

I think he hit the nail on the head... We were never 1 player away from the playoffs... I think that all this does is let Dan Snyder go along with drafting an O lineman in the draft, so that in the future if Clausen does become an elite QB, he can say "well we drafted McNabb before the draft, so we couldn't take a QB"


Yup, that's exactly what Dan Snyder is thinking about right now, what he's going to say just in case it doesn't work out since it's extremely important to have a quick reply on the ready for fans such as yourself. Yup. :rolleyes:

I thought we were passed the whole "blame Snyder for everything" responses.

[Truant]

The trade is worth it just to see McNabb getting "The Treatment". The way we have done business (and failed) over the last xx years means that there is a huge amount of skepticism for our team. With good reason.

Suddenly McNabb will be human in the eyes of the media. Five years too late.

[Sweet Sassy Molassy]

Yup, that's exactly what Dan Snyder is thinking about right now, what he's going to say just in case it doesn't work out since it's extremely important to have a quick reply on the ready for fans such as yourself. Yup. :rolleyes:

I thought we were passed the whole "blame Snyder for everything" responses.
Nah, people were just waiting for us to get a big name, any big name so they could proclaim nothing changed.

[TheLongshot]

Yup, that's exactly what Dan Snyder is thinking about right now, what he's going to say just in case it doesn't work out since it's extremely important to have a quick reply on the ready for fans such as yourself. Yup. :rolleyes:

I thought we were passed the whole "blame Snyder for everything" responses.

Yeah, I wouldn't look to Snyder for this move (Outside of the fact that he allows bold moves like this), but it isn't too far away from what Gibbs did when he got here. Certainly McNabb is better than Brunell when we traded for them, but we also gave up a hell of a lot more for McNabb.

It is one of the things I was nervous about when Shanahan was hired and was given a lot of control that he wasn't going to look out for the future of the franchise. Coaches typically think about next year and not really about the long term.

[Oldskool]

McNabb = Jake Plummer v2.0

He will be the starter for a few years until the OL and RB situation are fixed and the QB of the future drafted.

[iMeast]

All of this may or may not be true, but if the Redskins are now able to unload Jason Campbell for a second rounder to the Raiders, Browns, Seahawks, Bills, or Cardinals I will be happy with it. It would also be nice to move Andre Carter for a second or third. If that happens that would mean the Redskins recouped all of the picks they had lost because of the McNabb trade and the Jarmon pickup in the '09 supplementary draft. The team would have upgraded their QB situation and also have a young defensive end who was given a second round grade while at the same time unloaded some no longer useful players.

HTTR

[TANAMAN]

I have no problem with this move. McNabb is a proven QB and we can still draft a QB to groom behind him next year or in '12. When I look at the team we have I don't think damn this is a horrid team, I think man this team could be pretty good if our line were better, if we had a better QB, and if we had a coach that had half a clue of what he were doing. Guess what, we got the coach and we just got the QB. Now with a couple of moves we could strengthen the o line as well.

This could turn out to be a hell of a move, and I don't place this with the Deion and Bruce Smith moves because those players were CLEARLY on the down side of their careers and were nothing but nostalgia pick ups by Danny, he fell in love with the big name. McNabb is absolutely still playing at a high level and is still considered to be one of the top ten QB's in this league. I don'tknow about the "division favorites" thing but we should definately contend this year if we can make a couple of moves to fill in some gaps on the O Line.

[ddub52]

I know that our O line is pretty bad, but I think that the new system and McNabbs ability to throw on the run paired with his quick decision making instantly makes our O line and entire offense look a little bit better. He also manages to makes his receiver fairly productive regardless of who they are

[KennyKhaos]

Mosley's an idiot. Plain and simple. I'm not saying we'll be in the playoffs, but you have to look at this from so many different points of views. Zorn isn't our coach, Shanahan is. Who knows what he'll get outta the players we have, especially with McNabb here. Chances are we'll have a nice running game. He won't overlook the O-Line either. Our defense should be solid...hopefully. It's a new year as well. Mosley covers the NFL so he should realize just how much things change from year to year. Playoffs, maybe. But we will be a problem for everyone we play and Mosley will eat his words. Bank on it

[jason54858]

I have noticed alot you guys are down on this McNacbb trade and I can see why you would have this feeling, but the one thing you guys need to understand is this offseason is not over by any means. This trade alone made you guys better, alot better. Here in Dallas we were hoping to God McNabb would be traded out of the division, it is very disappointing he is still here. I hate McNabb with every bone in my body, but even I realize he is a solid QB. You guys go after Jared Gaither in free agency, maybe draft Eric Berry and you guys are in good shape in my opinion.

[demarc007]

Nah, people were just waiting for us to get a big name, any big name so they could proclaim nothing changed.

And those same people were crying when we didn't sign Porter, Rolle, Dansby, Clifton, and any other available free agent.

[icbmayday]

He definitely is jealous

[lou4gehrig]

Mosley is pretty much spot on. It makes us a better team now yes but it's really not a trade that a rebuilding team should be making.

We are rebuilding? Since when? I thought we're fixing our holes to compliment our good defense.

A rebuilding team wouldn't sign Larry Johnson and Willie Parker.

[SittingBull]

I wonder how people react if Allen and Shanny weren't here and Vinny was pulling off these signings and this trade.

[VaBeachRedskin]

McNabb = Jake Plummer v2.0

He will be the starter for a few years until the OL and RB situation are fixed and the QB of the future drafted.

Only difference is that Jake Plummer signed with Denver as a FA, not was traded there for a 2nd and 3rd round picks. This is a horrible move that reeks classic Redskins. You are right though that we will be drafting a QB very high again in the next 2 years to be McNabb's replacement. Just another high pick spent on the QB position by the Redskins. This is embarrassing.

[Hiro]

I don't really think anyone is proclaiming playoffs here. What bringing McNabb here does to is make a rebuilding team actually relevant in the 2010 season.

We gave up a 2nd round pick, and a 3rd or a 4th in 2011 depending on performance I assume. That is not a steep price to pay when you put the acquisition of Donovan McNabb in context.

This isn't a one year, all chips in type of angle Shanahan and Allen are taking here. Their goal coming in was to change the culture of the Washington Redskins and change the attitude of the franchise by jettisoning the old, stagnant, under performing players of the old regime, and slowly bring in new players who can perform at a level equal to or above their salary. What McNabb does is establish this culture in the locker room, with his past achievements and credibility giving the team confidence that yes, they can win. He is, above all else, a leader and the players do rally around him as the past has shown.

While McNabb does this, Shanahan and Allen continue to build the team through extensive scouting, making the most out of our picks, and finding as many diamonds in the rough as possible for the 2010 off season. Thus, this results in somewhat of a transition year in 2010, which explains the multiple cheap FA signings that have a bit of a "stop-gap" label on them. This year will allow them to find who has the stuff to be a part of the new organization, and who needs to be replaced.

That will lead us to the 2011 draft, which I believe is where we'll begin to see the extensive injection of youth via the draft, as we'll have more picks and potentially a greater ability to acquire more picks as we'll have more guys we know are expendable.

Despite the fact that this is a trade and not a FA acquisition, getting McNabb reminds me of when Miami went and got Chad Pennington. He was a veteran guy who was proven, commanded respect and leadership in the locker room, and actually made the Dolphins relevant, while acting a bridge to Chad Henne as the new QB. I have a feeling that this is very similar to how our QB situation will eventually shake down.

[VaBeachRedskin]

I don't really think anyone is proclaiming playoffs here. What bringing McNabb here does to is make a rebuilding team actually relevant in the 2010 season.

We gave up a 2nd round pick, and a 3rd or a 4th in 2011 depending on performance I assume. That is not a steep price to pay when you put the acquisition of Donovan McNabb in context.

This isn't a one year, all chips in type of angle Shanahan and Allen are taking here. Their goal coming in was to change the culture of the Washington Redskins and change the attitude of the franchise by jettisoning the old, stagnant, under performing players of the old regime, and slowly bring in new players who can perform at a level equal to or above their salary. What McNabb does is establish this culture in the locker room, with his past achievements and credibility giving the team confidence that yes, they can win. He is, above all else, a leader and the players do rally around him as the past has shown.

While McNabb does this, Shanahan and Allen continue to build the team through extensive scouting, making the most out of our picks, and finding as many diamonds in the rough as possible for the 2010 off season. Thus, this results in somewhat of a transition year in 2010, which explains the multiple cheap FA signings that have a bit of a "stop-gap" label on them. This year will allow them to find who has the stuff to be a part of the new organization, and who needs to be replaced.

That will lead us to the 2011 draft, which I believe is where we'll begin to see the extensive injection of youth via the draft, as we'll have more picks and potentially a greater ability to acquire more picks as we'll have more guys we know are expendable.

Despite the fact that this is a trade and not a FA acquisition, getting McNabb reminds me of when Miami went and got Chad Pennington. He was a veteran guy who was proven, commanded respect and leadership in the locker room, and actually made the Dolphins relevant, while acting a bridge to Chad Henne as the new QB. I have a feeling that this is very similar to how our QB situation will eventually shake down.

How does that make any sense whatsoever? The whole point of rebuilding is to lay the groundwork for future success. You acquire picks for run down talent (like the Eagles did), not try to make a rebuilding team relevant. Who cares if we are relevant this year (6-10 is not relevant to me though) if this cripples us again for some seasons down the road?

Since the 2003 draft we have had 14 top 100 selections in the draft. Is there any wonder why our roster is filled with aging players and scrubs?

[Hiro]

How does that make any sense whatsoever? The whole point of rebuilding is to lay the groundwork for future success. You acquire picks for run down talent (like the Eagles did), not try to make a rebuilding team relevant. Who cares if we are relevant this year (6-10 is not relevant to me though) if this cripples us again for some seasons down the road?

Since the 2003 draft we have had 14 top 100 selections in the draft. Is there any wonder why our roster is filled with aging players and scrubs?The point of future success isn't just about acquiring talent, but changing a culture in the locker room that all the players can buy into. The QB position is the most important position on the field, and if you can upgrade it in such a way that our organization just did, you should without question.

I agree that I hate the fact that we had to give up picks for this. But this isn't anything like the Jason Taylor trade all over again where we made a play for a guy who didn't fit our scheme and wouldn't impact us in a way comparable to the price we paid. This is an all-pro QB that can add credibility to our offense and help lay the ground work for the future.

Think of it this way. Do you think the Miami Dolphins' future benefited from their run in 2008 that arguably was attributed to Chad Pennington? Or do you think they'd be nearly as confident in their abilities had they had a down year in 2008 with Josh McCown or John Beck at the helm?

The picks and youth will come with time. What adding McNabb does is he likely will actually help us get more out of the young players we currently have and will get in the future. That, to me, is worth a lot more than just bringing in lots of young players who will flounder in a locker room with weak leadership.

[Iced Coffee]

For god sake no one thinks we are the second coming of the Vikings( even though they fell short). People are talking about making the playoffs which is realistic since we can actually throw the ball down field and score some points.

[21Knock_U_Out]

He's right. This move (assuming it's not a prelude to a bigger move for Bradford) reeks of bad Skins moves of the past. This new regime just lost it's honeymoon period as far as I'm concerned.

Seriously! I will be scratching my head ALL WEEK! What the hell FO?

[Oldskool]

Only difference is that Jake Plummer signed with Denver as a FA, not was traded there for a 2nd and 3rd round picks. This is a horrible move that reeks classic Redskins. You are right though that we will be drafting a QB very high again in the next 2 years to be McNabb's replacement. Just another high pick spent on the QB position by the Redskins. This is embarrassing.

:ols:

Does it really matter how he came here, via hook or by crook. The fact is the chicken littles here that bitched, pissed and moaned that they didn't have a QB and that its a QB league :blahblah::blahblah::blahblah:

Now the team has a pro bowl caliber QB and the pissing and moaning starts anew.

Simply pathetic.

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

:ols:
The fact is the chicken littles here that bitched, pissed and moaned that they didn't have a QB and that its a QB league :blahblah::blahblah::blahblah:

Now the team has a pro bowl caliber QB and the pissing and moaning starts anew.

Simply pathetic.

Uh, most of the QB contingent here is pleased or at least neutral. Not saying all, bust most of the prominent "voices" of that faction are pleased. Don't really appreciate the icons and "moaning" since many of us are just fine now and have no issue going OL with the top pick and subsequent selections.

You'll notice that he whines about a high pick spent on a QB, whereas pro-QB people were generally ADVOCATING it.

There are two camps opposing the move, in the main: 1) Youth uber alles we need to rebuild from the ground up types and 2) JC Supporters (with some Culters sprinkled in)

[Coopskin]

Mosley is pretty much spot on. It makes us a better team now yes but it's really not a trade that a rebuilding team should be making.

Where in the hell does this roster show were rebuilding?This is not a rebuiding team!With McNabb and upgrading the off.line we can compete for the nfc.We went from probably finishing last to a chance at winning the division with one trade!The most important position QB,something the skins have'nt had in over a decade.This is a grat move.

[jchap]

Just FYI:

Clayton picked the Skins to win the NFC East last year too

[Veretax]

The best part about McNabb is that he'll find the open guy, something JC has admittedly had trouble with it. But it will be fun to pull the hair out the first time he tries to hit Cooley/Portis/RB in the flat and he bounces it to him off the turf.

(Say who thinks we play Philly week 1 now? ;)

[Califan007]

Pardon me for not getting caught up in the apparent playoff euphoria that is sweeping Redskins Park. My esteemed colleague and pal John Clayton has elevated the Washington Redskins to "co-favorite" status, along with the Dallas Cowboys, to win the NFC East.
John Clayton is part of Redskins Park now? lol

[SkinsHokieFan]

McNabb is a clear upgrade at the QB spot

Does this make us a playoff team? Well it depends on the rest of the offseason.

The 2010 roster is far from set

[Blue Collar Skins]

McNabb is a considerable upgrade at QB, but this team won't be an analogue to Minny unless we can fix the OL and that will take 1-2 years.

I agree with you, but indeed we could draft and acquire Offense Linemen to repair our line, this year.

[TheLongshot]

There are two camps opposing the move, in the main: 1) Youth uber alles we need to rebuild from the ground up types and 2) JC Supporters (with some Culters sprinkled in)

3) Those who know that the lack of draft picks has hurt this team.

[MattFancy]

I don't see why Mosley doesn't think this makes us a better team. Now our sole focus will be on the OL from here until training camp. We have a legit top 10 QB in the NFL now, we have a top 10 defense, we have solid RBs, and we have some young WRs. I'm sure Shanny and Allen both know that the OL hasn't been fixed yet and that is what they will address next.

[Henry]

Mosley is absolutely right. This team was not a mere QB away last year.

McNabb may be good enough to get a crappy team to 8 wins or so. Think Favre with the Jets.

And make no mistake, we have a crappy team right now. How many draft picks do we have now? If we used every single pick we have on the OL I'm not sure it would be enough. And that's if you like having the Battling Geriatric Outpatient Brigade running the ball for us.


I don't see why Mosley doesn't think this makes us a better team. Now our sole focus will be on the OL from here until training camp. We have a legit top 10 QB in the NFL now, we have a top 10 defense, we have solid RBs, and we have some young WRs. I'm sure Shanny and Allen both know that the OL hasn't been fixed yet and that is what they will address next.

Of course it makes us a better team. Then again, 5-11 is a better team. We don't have to be a contender to be better than we were last year.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I would fall somewhere between Clayton and Moseley actually.

Clayton is getting ahead of himself by declaring we're co-favorites to win the division, something we haven't done (and only once challenged for) in 10 years. However, I think Moseley might be underestimating our talent a bit. Sure, we're not loaded. But I think competent coaching will get more out of our current players.

What I believe this regime is attempting to do is cobble together a good team WHILE we rebuild in the background. Our current defense plus some talented veterans on offense (McNabb, Johnson, Parker, Hicks) might get us used to winning. In the background, we will be adding youth, grooming younger players, and implementing a program.

I don't think Moseley is properly accounting for the upgrade at the two most influential spots on a football team: coaching and QB. For years, that's what's separated us from the Eagles. Now, coaching and QB have to be considered a strength. We're not a 12-win team or anything...but we could have a winning record in year 1 now...and be poised to make some noise.

Finally, I believe Mike Shanahan is hitching his wagon to McNabb. He's his Elway. In a few years when Mike wants to stay in the front office and let Kyle run the show, we'll probably have the heir apparent on the roster, fully groomed, and ready to take over...

[redskindan07]

He's right. We need more than one player from being a legit contender

[Henry]

What I believe this regime is attempting to do is cobble together a good team WHILE we rebuild in the background. Our current defense plus some talented veterans on offense (McNabb, Johnson, Parker, Hicks) might get us used to winning. In the background, we will be adding youth, grooming younger players, and implementing a program.

We have to think that, because that's the only strategy that makes sense now that we've spent ANOTHER high draft pick on an old formerly-great player.

That doesn't mean that's what we're doing. I haven't seen any evidence this team is rebuilding. I've seen us sign a couple very old RBs and trade away picks. Teams in rebuild-mode generally trade FOR them.

[Thirtyfive2seven]

If the Redskins do NOT address the offensive line and the offense starts to work what will the JC supporters say? It must be the system? LOL.

As for the article, the man is right but I think McNabb will have much more success behind the same oline. I just hope he doesn't get injured. If he does you can kiss that contract goodbye as he will retire an Eagle

[Henry]

If the Redskins do NOT address the offensive line and the offense starts to work what will the JC supporters say? It must be the system? LOL.

That McNabb is a better QB than Campbell? Is that even up for debate?


As for the article, the man is right but I think McNabb will have much more success behind the same oline.

I do to. 8-8 would be much more successful than last year. And pretty much par for the course with the Redskins of the past decade.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

We have to think that, because that's the only strategy that makes sense now that we've spent ANOTHER high draft pick on an old formerly-great player.

That doesn't mean that's what we're doing. I haven't seen any evidence this team is rebuilding. I've seen us sign a couple very old RBs and trade away picks. Teams in rebuild-mode generally trade FOR them.

Sure...but again, we don't know a whole lot about some of the younger players on this team. For all we know, the current regime is pleasantly surprised with our young WRs and TE. For all we know, they think we have a little more in our OL than we saw on the field last year. Maybe they think with a new coaching outlook (from a MUCH-improved coaching staff) and some grooming, we have a good nucleus of young players that can compete.

When you think about the NFL, coaching and QB are the two biggest keys. It's very possible that we've been held back significantly by those two positions for the past couple years. I'm not saying we're SB-ready, but we might not have seen our players' potential reached just yet.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I'm going to give Allen and Shanahan more than 3 months to determine what their long-term strategy is. And, even if they are going to adopt a "win now" mentality, I'm much more confident in their abilities to piece together a winning team than the previous regime's.

[jfr3ek]

we'll be ok. Im sure we're going to pick up more Linemen soon enough. This isn't a sprint, but a marathon for free agent signing you know.

[Henry]

Sure...but again, we don't know a whole lot about some of the younger players on this team. For all we know, the current regime is pleasantly surprised with our young WRs and TE. For all we know, they think we have a little more in our OL than we saw on the field last year. Maybe they think with a new coaching outlook (from a MUCH-improved coaching staff) and some grooming, we have a good nucleus of young players that can compete.

That's the Redskin battle-cry from 2000 until today. This team is secretly really good and it's just that nobody else knows it.


When you think about the NFL, coaching and QB are the two biggest keys. It's very possible that we've been held back significantly by those two positions for the past couple years. I'm not saying we're SB-ready, but we might not have seen our players' potential reached just yet.

I don't think we were held back significantly by Joe Gibbs the Coach. Looking back it's clear he was squeezing blood from a stone during his second tenure. That's because as Joe Gibbs the GM he traded draft picks for veterans, including an established 34-year-old franchise QB, and thought he could rebuild around him on the fly.


Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I'm going to give Allen and Shanahan more than 3 months to determine what their long-term strategy is. And, even if they are going to adopt a "win now" mentality, I'm much more confident in their abilities to piece together a winning team than the previous regime's.

Sure. You never know. I can say though that so far we're seeing more of the same from the Redskins. If we win a ton of games I'll happily shut up, but until then this team has not earned the benefit of the doubt. Not anymore.

[MattFancy]

I would fall somewhere between Clayton and Moseley actually.

Clayton is getting ahead of himself by declaring we're co-favorites to win the division, something we haven't done (and only once challenged for) in 10 years. However, I think Moseley might be underestimating our talent a bit. Sure, we're not loaded. But I think competent coaching will get more out of our current players.

What I believe this regime is attempting to do is cobble together a good team WHILE we rebuild in the background. Our current defense plus some talented veterans on offense (McNabb, Johnson, Parker, Hicks) might get us used to winning. In the background, we will be adding youth, grooming younger players, and implementing a program.

I don't think Moseley is properly accounting for the upgrade at the two most influential spots on a football team: coaching and QB. For years, that's what's separated us from the Eagles. Now, coaching and QB have to be considered a strength. We're not a 12-win team or anything...but we could have a winning record in year 1 now...and be poised to make some noise.

Finally, I believe Mike Shanahan is hitching his wagon to McNabb. He's his Elway. In a few years when Mike wants to stay in the front office and let Kyle run the show, we'll probably have the heir apparent on the roster, fully groomed, and ready to take over...

I agree with this. I do think though that we have a legit chance to win the division. I mean why not? McNabb took those Eagle teams to the NFCCG with no one special. I mean Pinkston and Mitchell were the WRs, I don't think either of them are even in the league anymore. Look what he did with Maclin and Jackson. Neither of them were proven guys and now they are household names.

Yes our OL still needs some work, but we have some good guys in place here. We have a consistent top 10 defense which has a bunch of talent on it. We have some solid RBs that will all split the load to keep them fresh throughout the season. Our WRs our unproven, but have shown flashes of getting better.

We also didn't have to trade the farm to get him. We were more than likely going to take a QB in the draft, I'd say McNabb is better than any of the QBs that would've been available to us. I think it was a great trade and we'll be a legit contender for the coming years because of it.

[asnpcwiz]

McNabb is a turd. Even Shanny won't be able to polish it. The odds Shanny stays 5 years just got smaller when McNabb busts out, gets injured and flames like an old sucky QB.

You must have been watching another sport called "football" for the past 11 years...

[youngestson]

Mosley being negative about the Redskins. Nothing new here...

Actually he is just being realistic.......again. I don't like the message any more than you do, but it's the truth, and we'll have to deal with it until the Skins prove themselves to be a real team on the field and not in the off-season.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

That's the Redskin battle-cry from 2000 until today. This team is secretly really good and it's just that nobody else knows it.

Well, the only times we've seen success is when we've had an established coach and given him more than a year...so that battle cry really hasn't been proven wrong yet.


I don't think we were held back significantly by Joe Gibbs the Coach. Looking back it's clear he was squeezing blood from a stone during his second tenure. That's because as Joe Gibbs the GM he traded draft picks for veterans, including an established 34-year-old franchise QB, and thought he could rebuild around him on the fly.

See my point above.


Sure. You never know. I can say though that so far we're seeing more of the same from the Redskins. If we win a ton of games I'll happily shut up, but until then this team has not earned the benefit of the doubt. Not anymore.

The team is not the same. If you don't want to give the 2010 Redskins the benefit of the doubt due to mistakes that were made by previous regimes over the past 10 years, that's your choice. I, however, believe that Allen and Shanahan deserve the benefit of the doubt. They had nothing to do with the 2000 nightmare, the hiring of Spurrier and stocking his teams with college players and nobodies, the Gibbs FA moves and trades, or the hiring of Zorn and the personnel decisions made during his tenure.

Just like you said, if 2 years from now we're still winning 6-8 games per year and have "started over" again, I'll say I was wrong. For now though, we have gone from Zorn/Campbell to Shanahan/McNabb. That's a good thing.

[GibbsFactor]

There's a lot of "fans" in this thread that no very little about this game. Toss last year out. You can't say the skins are awful and not close because of last year. Fact is, all we need is 3 players to step up and be legitimate contenders. One of them will be the #4 pick. That leaves RT, RG and possibly a safety. We still will most likely trade Campbell, perhaps Carlos and Carter. Who knows, maybe Clinton and Albert. Let's say we get a third back from one of them. There's your RG. Hicks and Heyer at RT. Boom.

No more predictable offense, no more controversy, no more dysfunction.

Redskins fans lift your head up. Today is a good day.

It's laughable. This is a huge deal and everyone knows Mosley's a hater anyway. The only reason he has this gig is he was lucky to break the Baylor bball murder story. He's a fool.

[Henry]

Well, the only times we've seen success is when we've had an established coach and given him more than a year...so that battle cry really hasn't been proven wrong yet.

We had a small, small taste of success. Followed by more horribleness.

I am hoping for a little more than that this time around.


The team is not the same. If you don't want to give the 2010 Redskins the benefit of the doubt due to mistakes that were made by previous regimes over the past 10 years, that's your choice. I, however, believe that Allen and Shanahan deserve the benefit of the doubt. They had nothing to do with the 2000 nightmare, the hiring of Spurrier and stocking his teams with college players and nobodies, the Gibbs FA moves and trades, or the hiring of Zorn and the personnel decisions made during his tenure.

Until proven otherwise 'the regime' is Dan Snyder. Under Dan Snyder there has been one constant: Trading the future for the present. We're still seeing that now. Maybe it really is different behind the scenes. But we're still making the same type of moves we did before, so until I see something different on the field ... like a consistant long-term winner, I won't believe things have changed. I don't know why I would.


Just like you said, if 2 years from now we're still winning 6-8 games per year and have "started over" again, I'll say I was wrong. For now though, we have gone from Zorn/Campbell to Shanahan/McNabb. That's a good thing.

The Redskins have earned my blind faith with one or two offseason moves in the past. Not anymore. Sorry.

[Big Blue Joe]

Mosley being negative about the Redskins. Nothing new here...What have you guys given him to be positive about? It's not as if the Redskins have been lighting up the league for the past few years.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

We had a small, small taste of success. Followed by more horribleness.

I am hoping for a little more than that this time around.

I probably butchered the point I was trying to make there...sorry about that. The point I was hoping to make was that our "talent" has gotten a bad reputation in my opinion. We had turnover every 2 years and lousy coaching with the exception of a 4-year stint with Joe Gibbs. That means that I don't believe you can judge our roster based on what we saw on the field over the past 2 seasons.


Until proven otherwise 'the regime' is Dan Snyder. Under Dan Snyder there has been one constant: Trading the future for the present. We're still seeing that now. Maybe it really is different behind the scenes. But we're still making the same type of moves we did before, so until I see something different on the field ... like a consistant long-term winner, I won't believe things have changed. I don't know why I would.

Well, I don't agree that Snyder has anything to do with these transactions. Since I can't prove anything, we'll just have to agree to disagree.


The Redskins have earned my blind faith with one or two offseason moves in the past. Not anymore. Sorry.

Again, that's your choice...and if you truly believe Snyder is pulling the strings, I don't blame you. I think Allen and Shanahan are in charge, so it would be silly of me to assume they are going to make the same mistakes that previous regimes did just because they work in the same building that Cerrato, Zorn, and Spurrier did.

[brianm23]

I think the article is 100% dead on. We have too many positions that need upgrading to even think about contending. The only thing we've are contending with is the "Off-season CHAMPS" title again. :mad:

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I think the article is 100% dead on. We have too many positions that need upgrading to even think about contending. The only thing we've are contending with is the "Off-season CHAMPS" title again. :mad:

I would like someone to flesh this out a little more for me. I'll say right off the bat, that I'm NOT an expert.

What positions need upgrading?
What classifies as "too many" positions needing upgrading before we can hope to contend?

I see our team as it stands on 4/5/2010 and can't see any holes other than OL. Even that could look drastically different by September if we use the #4 pick and a later-round pick to address it.

We have Rabach back at C (average). We have Dockery at G (good). We have Hicks signed (average). We have Williams in the mix (average with upside).

I guess I don't believe that we're a team that is going to be giving up a record number of sacks. I just don't see it happening.

[Henry]

Again, that's your choice...and if you truly believe Snyder is pulling the strings, I don't blame you. I think Allen and Shanahan are in charge, so it would be silly of me to assume they are going to make the same mistakes that previous regimes did just because they work in the same building that Cerrato, Zorn, and Spurrier did.

Well for what it's worth I hope you're right and I'm wrong. :)

I hope this turns into another Shanahan/Elway dynamic. I'm hoping that's what Shanahan is thinking. I do think McNabb is the best QB Shanahan has had since Elway, so there is that.

But we've seen this team with the offseason before. A few posts up someone is saying we're just three players away from greatness now.

I'm not going there anymore. That's all.

[Spooky]

If Clayton was refuting Mosly I would be worried but Clayton is more optimistic and usually right about everything that is football. Mosley said it himself that this trade makes the Redskins better. It is not as if we traded 2 firsts for Cutler.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Well for what it's worth I hope you're right and I'm wrong. :)

I hope this turns into another Shanahan/Elway dynamic. I'm hoping that's what Shanahan is thinking. I do think McNabb is the best QB Shanahan has had since Elway, so there is that.

But we've seen this team with the offseason before. A few posts up someone is saying we're just three players away from greatness now.

I'm not going there anymore. That's all.

And I hope I'm right too!

Believe me, there's a small part of me that can see this turning out just like Deion, Bruce Smith, Jason Taylor, etc. However, I have to remember (or have faith, at least) that this isn't Vinny getting fleeced by smarter people...this is a competent FO now.

[TheLongshot]

I would like someone to flesh this out a little more for me. I'll say right off the bat, that I'm NOT an expert.

What positions need upgrading?
What classifies as "too many" positions needing upgrading before we can hope to contend?

I see our team as it stands on 4/5/2010 and can't see any holes other than OL. Even that could look drastically different by September if we use the #4 pick and a later-round pick to address it.

We have Rabach back at C (average). We have Dockery at G (good). We have Hicks signed (average). We have Williams in the mix (average with upside).

I guess I don't believe that we're a team that is going to be giving up a record number of sacks. I just don't see it happening.

There are still a lot of questions on this team. While I think we probably will be fine at RB for the time being, the future is still up in the air considering that the best years might be behind these guys. The OL talent so far hasn't changed much at all. We are also in the process of converting to a 3-4, in which some of the talent we have on this team might not fit into that.

I guess some fans have gotten used to a depleted draft, never mind that it is because of those depleted drafts that we have the situation that we have on the OL.

There is still a lot of work ahead for this team to become a contender. Whether McNabb survives long enough to reap the benefits of it is a big question.

[December90]

McNabb is a turd. Even Shanny won't be able to polish it......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rax27_ZIVM

Maybe we need to bring in Adam Savage and Jamie Hyneman ro be assistant coaches then:evilg:

[brianm23]

I would like someone to flesh this out a little more for me. I'll say right off the bat, that I'm NOT an expert.

What positions need upgrading?
What classifies as "too many" positions needing upgrading before we can hope to contend?

I see our team as it stands on 4/5/2010 and can't see any holes other than OL. Even that could look drastically different by September if we use the #4 pick and a later-round pick to address it.

We have Rabach back at C (average). We have Dockery at G (good). We have Hicks signed (average). We have Williams in the mix (average with upside).

I guess I don't believe that we're a team that is going to be giving up a record number of sacks. I just don't see it happening.

Did you watch any Redskins game last year? If so, you'd notice our secondary sucks. Big time. You'd also notice our OL was horrible, and the 3 guys you named up there are part of that badness.

RB
OL
S
CB
QB - which we did upgrade


Blame the coaches or whoever you want to, but the fact is those positions didn't get the job done last year.

[SB17]

I wonder how people react if Allen and Shanny weren't here and Vinny was pulling off these signings and this trade. The difference, I believe, is that if Vinny were pulling off these signings and this trade is that we would have given up tens of millions of dollars more for the signings and possibly next year's 1st rounder (in addition to this year's 2nd and next year's 3rd/4th) for the trade. As things stand, if the signings don't work out in the Redskins' favor, the player gets released with little financial penalty (in terms of salary cap) to the Redskins, something which couldn't be done in the past. Look at the Jason Taylor trade (and others made by Vinny) and then try to tell me that this wasn't a more balanced trade (what we gave up vs. what we got).

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Did you watch any Redskins game last year? If so, you'd notice our secondary sucks. Big time. You'd also notice our OL was horrible, and the 3 guys you named up there are part of that badness.


OL
S
CB
QB - which we did upgrade


Blame the coaches or whoever you want to, but the fact is those positions didn't get the job done last year.

So, we have "a lot of holes" because we need to fill a couple positions in the secondary and fortify our OL? You do realize that means you think we're pretty well off at the following positions:

DL
LB
WR
RB
TE
QB

So, let's say we need 3 more OL, 1 safety, and 1 CB (we have Hall, Buchanon, Rogers if we don't trade him, Tryon, and Barnes). You believe that 5 or 6 players is way too many holes to overcome in order for this team to contend in the next couple years?

[isle-hawg]

Playoffs? Who the heck thinks this team is ever going to the Playoffs with McNabb and now 2 less draft picks??

[brianm23]

So, we have "a lot of holes" because we need to fill a couple positions in the secondary and fortify our OL? You do realize that means you think we're pretty well off at the following positions:

DL
LB
WR
RB
TE
QB

So, let's say we need 3 more OL, 1 safety, and 1 CB (we have Hall, Buchanon, Rogers if we don't trade him, Tryon, and Barnes). You believe that 5 or 6 players is way too many holes to overcome in order for this team to contend in the next couple years?

I just posted the immediate stuff I thought about, and I added RB to the position too. Bringing in old vets does not constitute as "upgrading" as we've seen first hand the past decade.

Rogers? Garbage. Buchanon? Garbage. Hall? The only one with talent, but he's often burned too often due to his gambling style of play.

Switching to a 3-4, we'll now need OLB for the new defense. Carter? He even knows himself that he's not a good OLB for the 3-4 defense. Who's going to be your other MLB beside Fletcher? McIntosh? NT? You got one in FA that's injury prone so what's the backup plan?

So yeah, there are other needs, but I just pointed out the obvious ones to start.

Fact is, if Vinny were still here and made this move, you guys would be ALL in a uproar about it.

[KennyKhaos]

Did you watch any Redskins game last year? If so, you'd notice our secondary sucks. Big time. You'd also notice our OL was horrible, and the 3 guys you named up there are part of that badness.

RB
OL
S
CB
QB - which we did upgrade


Blame the coaches or whoever you want to, but the fact is those positions didn't get the job done last year.

RB is taken care of now. So is CB and QB. If players can stay healthy we do have a little depth at safety. That leaves OL. We do need some help on the DL and LB since we're switch to a 3-4, but that's mostly for depth. Everyone keeps saying we have these huge holes, but a few of them have been addressed. Just seems like some of you guys don't like what they've fill the holes with.

And you can blame a lot of it on coaching. Secondary didn't suck so much as they were on the field way too long and told to play waaayy to far off the ball on short yardage plays. They did get beat a few times, but Blache didn't help too much with his passive schemes. Imagine how good our d would've been with a more aggressive defensive scheme. The talent alone is why they were as good as they were

[Oldfan]

I guess some fans have gotten used to a depleted draft, never mind that it is because of those depleted drafts that we have the situation that we have on the OL.

For some time now, it has been my impression that the typical Skins' fan talks out of both sides of his mouth. He believes in building through the draft, but wants to win now.

I'm a strong proponent of building and maintaining a high-grade team primarily through the draft, but I won't criticize trades even for old vets when they make sense. But, I can't make sense of this one.

I don't think the inconsistent, big play style of offense Andy Reid fashioned around Donovan is a good plan if winning Super Bowls is the goal. Moreover, the Eagles' offense depended on: 1) Donovan's legs and his ability to extend plays; and 2) well-run screen passes with Westbrook in an open field. Neither of those advantages is coming to Washington in the trade.

McNabb's deep throwing ability won't help us given our O line protection problems which are not likely to be solved overnight.

Our three young receivers drafted in 2008, were drafted for a conventional, ball control WCO which McNabb isn't suited to run. The only deep threat we have is Santana who appears close to the end of his string.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

Thomas isn't a deep threat? Davis is probably a top 3 deep threat at QB. The only "possession" guys we have is Kelly and Mitchell. Also, I think our running game will be better than theirs, seeing we'll actually *attempt* to run the ball.

The Eagles actually have done a lot of dink and dunk WCO in the past, at least when their WRs weren't great (todd pinkston loooooool).

Personally, we're two linemen away from being "okay" on the line. Stephon Heyer is an UPGRADE from Jason Peters. I really think that one of our trash-heap guys or a low-round RT could stick in the "water to wine" schemes of Shanahan. Okung or even Bulaga will be the best LT *prospect* he's ever had (Bulaga coming in is at least as good as Clady coming in), and we can still trade down and go with Iupati/Williams/Davis. We just need to package McIntosh, Carter, Campbell, Cooley, and possibly Haynesworth in trades somehow.

[prufRock]

Mosley is on the right track, and is in fact being kind to the Redskins. Taken on its own merits within the context of where this team is, this trade doesn't make any sense for the Redskins.

I think Shanahan is trying to recreate the Elway situation he had several years ago in Denver. The problem is that he's inheriting a 4-12 team with multiple holes on the roster, not a .500 team that just needs the great QB to make them a playoff team.

We can speculate about what future offseason moves the team might make but right now, this looks like a band-aid solution where we've once again sacrificed the future for immediate gratification.

[TheLongshot]

For some time now, it has been my impression that the typical Skins' fan talks out of both sides of his mouth. He believes in building through the draft, but wants to win now.

I've noticed that dichotomy for a long time. Fans seem to have this love/hate relationship with big moves like this: they love it when it happens and hate it when it doesn't turn out as well as it could have. People talk about building through the draft, but I doubt many truly believe in it. In the end, many are mini-Snyders, who desperately want to win.


I don't think the inconsistent, big play style of offense Andy Reid fashioned around Donovan is a good plan if winning Super Bowls is the goal. Moreover, the Eagles' offense depended on: 1) Donovan's legs and his ability to extend plays; and 2) well-run screen passes with Westbrook in an open field. Neither of those advantages is coming to Washington in the trade.

Personally, I don't think Donovan's legs have been an advantage for a while. If anything, he seems very resistant to use his legs, even when it is the best move.


Our three young receivers drafted in 2008, were drafted for a conventional, ball control WCO which McNabb isn't suited to run. The only deep threat we have is Santana who appears close to the end of his string.

I'll disagree with you here. Both Thomas and Mitchell are speed guys and traditionally have been deep threats in college. They haven't been used as deep threats much because we haven't been able to go deep.

[Monkfan63]

Every year the Skins spurn building through the drafts and pretty much every year they suck. And yet the fans on here fall for the "1 player away" mentality. I am amazed at how the fans are so gullible.

[DallasSucks19922010]

The only thing I dont like about it is the fact that we are rebuilding and we give up the equivalent of a 1st round pick for a guy who will only start for a maximum of 2 years. We werent a QB away like the Vikings. We are a QB, o-line, recieving corp, special teams unit, and defense that can get turnovers away from contention. If we needed a stopgap guy just start Jason Campbell or Colt Brennan and draft the best available QB in this draft. Hopefully Bruce and Shanny have a plan to get the picks back.

[Oldfan]

I'll disagree with you here. Both Thomas and Mitchell are speed guys and traditionally have been deep threats in college. They haven't been used as deep threats much because we haven't been able to go deep.

Thomas has good speed for his size, but he is not a burner like Santana has been. Mitchell has yet to prove he can play in the NFL. Neither compares to the Eagles Maclin or Jackson.

[TheLongshot]

Thomas has good speed for his size, but he is not a burner like Santana has been. Mitchell has yet to prove he can play in the NFL. Neither compares to the Eagles Maclin or Jackson.

Well, neither compares right now because neither have gotten the opportunity that both of those players have gotten.

Thomas ran a 4.4 40 at the combine. Mitchell runs a 4.49. That's pretty darn fast. Maclin's times at the combine were pretty close to Thomas'.

[Oldfan]

Well, neither compares right now because neither have gotten the opportunity that both of those players have gotten.

So, you are hoping they are deep threats while my remarks are based on what I've seen from them so far.

[Brett81]

Davis is probably a top 3 deep threat at QB.

Is that Fred Davis you're referring to? If so, he's play TE not QB. How would a QB be a deep threat, when he's a QB? Is he gonna do that 8 yr old type of football play and throw the ball up in the air and then run around everyone and catch it like we did as kids in the street in front of the house?

Sorry, but this post makes no sense.

[Mooka]

No **** Mosely. You could've summed up that blog very easily in one sentence.

"This is certainly a fascinating trade in terms of its impact on two franchises, but to say that Washington and Dallas are the co-favorites in the division is a pretty big stretch."


Just had to throw in your jabs though, eh?

[bird_1972]

Mosley is pretty much spot on. It makes us a better team now yes but it's really not a trade that a rebuilding team should be making.

No, it's not.

And this does vaguely seem very Snyder-esque on its surface.

[tex]

the team obviously felt that after looking at the qb offerings in this years draft that McNabb for a 2nd and 3rd or 4th represented a lot of value.

you don't go from 4-12 to the super bowl in one giant leap, you take it one step at a time. this step moves the team forward and that ain't bad.