Advice for a confused post undergrad/possible career path

[Iced Coffee]

I am going crazy.

I have one year left in undergrad and I am at a loss with what I want to do with my life. All three years it has basically been going for a PhD in Counseling/Clinical Psychology or going to Law school. I had figured I would know by now but I don’t

Law has always been a back pocket type of thing; why? I am not 100% sure.. Maybe because everyone has that expectation from me? Not sure. But it's something I haven’t been able to explore to see if it is something I’d like to do but it has always been an option.

Everyone and their mom has advice on what career path to take, which just adds more pressure, but I have not yet come to a realization of what I want.

GRE or LSAT a fork in the road so to say.

I am trying to juggle studying for both the exams with my job and everything else going on.. But I'd prefer to focus on one. But I have no idea what I want to do?

My family doesn't really believe in taking a year off after I graduate to study and figure it all out which is frustrating. I feel like I am crumbling under all the pressure.

I guess taking a year off would be to see if Law is an option. To find an internship of some sort and study for the LSAT since that makes or breaks you.

If I go the psych route I am not so worried about taking a year because the GRE is not something that worries me as much as say the LSAT, and the other aspects of the application I am pretty good to go with.

Wth am I supposed to do.. All of my friends I talk to about this say enjoy summer take it easy, but with every passing day that becomes harder.

So here is a fork in the road and I have no idea which way to go. Maybe someone on here can enlighten me with how they knew their calling in life or any other random tid bits.. any advice is welcome.

Sorry for the long post/rant.

[Duckus]

Take your time. You are probably 20-22 years old - it is okay to be unsure about your future. I am 26 and I am still not 100% sure what I want to do for the next 40 years - that is normal.

Most people don't and won't know what they want to do until they get out and try several different jobs/fields. Then they find something they love and get a graduate degree in that field.


My family doesn't really believe in taking a year off after I graduate to study and figure it all out which is frustrating.

Who gives a **** what your family believes in? This is YOUR life. You will be out of college. Start making your own decision. Listen to the advise of your family, but don't allow them to make your decisions.

Taking your time and finding out what you really want to do with your life is not wasting time or being irresponsible. Rushing into something, wasting thousands upon thousands of dollars and making yourself feel depressed all in need to rush towards the future is the real irresponsible and time wasting option.

Side note - I talk to a lot of interns at my job. Most are 20-22 years old. Almost all of them wants to go straight to Graduate School - especially Law School. I always asking them why and 95% of them have no idea. Many don't even want to practice law. They just want to go because they are scared of what to do after they graduate.

Fear drives so many young people to Graduate School. School is safe. It is not the real world. Many just want to keep learning (which is a great thing) and live their lives in the bubble that is the academic world.

[PeterMP]

Why take a year off?

Can't you make a decison while in school?

Go to grad school (or law), and if you don't lik it quit and go the other direction.

I've never understood how this idea of taking a year off to figure things out, like doing nothing for year will really help you figure out what you want to do as compared to actually DOING something to move in a direction.

(Do they pay you or at least give out TA's where the waive tuition to get a PhD in psycology?)

[Heisenberg]

I agree with the last poster.

I'm almost 26 and 3+ years out of college and I'm still very confused about what direction I want to go with my career. I hope that changes soon but I wouldn't panic or anything.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Why take a year off?

Can't you make a decison while in school?

Go to grad school (or law), and if you don't lik it quit and go the other direction.

I've never understood how this idea of taking a year off to figure things out, like doing nothing for year will really help you figure out what you want to do as compared to actually DOING something to move in a direction.

(Do they pay you or at least give out TA's where the waive tuition to get a PhD in psycology?)

Or why can't the OP enter the workforce until he knows which direction he wants to go and then apply for grad/law school at that point. That way, you're earning your own money and being productive while you're deciding.

[Burgold]

A few days ago I started a thread about career path matching college degrees. You'll find that there are quite a few who started down one road and ended pretty successfully upon another. You have time.

That said, my best advice would be....

Seek out internships. Get yourself in the day-2-day of whatever field you think you're interested in. That's the best way to figure out if you'll like the field. Call businesses that have professionals in the fields you like best and set up informational interviews. Most will accomodate and spending an hour or two talking with people in the field who are doing what you are hoping to do is also valuable.

I do believe in that year or two off between undergrad and grad school esp. if you are working/interning/volunteering. Getting away from the school grind can help you to refocus, but if you don't and you happen to be wrong... you aren't lost. You will find many opportunities to set a new course and find a safe harbor.

but take advantage of the resources your campus offers. The best thing a good college offers is networking opportunities. It's not just about the classes... it's about getting your feet in the door and meeting people who know and can mentor you. Theory only gets you so far.

[PeterMP]

Or why can't the OP enter the workforce until he knows which direction he wants to go and then apply for grad/law school at that point. That way, you're earning your own money and being productive while you're deciding.
First, he can. I don't have any authority over his life.

Two, I don't see how that does any really good though. It doesn't really prepare you for going to grad school or law school, and it probably doesn't really help him make a decision.

Sometimes, you have to make a decision and move. It might be the right one or it might not.

Delaying a decision doesn't make a lot of sense, but is easy to do and a lot of people do that under the guise of trying to be "sure" to make the right decision.

[Duckus]

Go to grad school (or law), and if you don't lik it quit and go the other direction.


I have 2 friends who went half-way through Law School only to realize they hated it. They both owe in the range of $40,000 - $80,000 for that mistake. And those are loans on top of their $20,000-$30,000 for undergrad.

Starting and quitting can be a costly gamble.

[PeterMP]

I have 2 friends who went half-way through Law School only to realize they hated it. They both owe in the range of $40,000 - $80,000 for that mistake.

Starting and quitting can be a costly gamble.
Yeah, but is there anything they could have done before hand that would have required taking a year off that would have helped them figure out that they wouldn't like law school?

I'm not saying that it doesn't make a sense to be pretty sure that you want to go in a particular direction BEFORE going there, but this guy has a year left in school before making the decision.

Generally, I'd advise NOT spending a bunch of money to do something that is your "back up" plan, but figuring that out (or asking me that question (or anybody else)) shouldn't require taking a year off.

[Heisenberg]

Try to get a job at a law firm being a paralegal or something.

That's what my friend did for a year after college and then he went to University of Maryland law school after that. He just graduated a few weeks ago.

I'd say that's a good way to a) have a job, b) build your resume, c) see if it's a direction you'd like to go in.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

First, he can. I don't have any authority over his life.

Two, I don't see how that does any really good though. It doesn't really prepare you for going to grad school or law school, and it probably doesn't really help him make a decision.

Sometimes, you have to make a decision and move. It might be the right one or it might not.

Delaying a decision doesn't make a lot of sense, but is easy to do and a lot of people do that under the guise of trying to be "sure" to make the right decision.

1) I understand...it was a way of expressing a hypothetical.

2) Well, it doesn't get him any closer to choosing which path to take for an advanced degree, but he's not just standing still or going a year or two down a path he might abandon.

I'd rather work for a year or two and bank some money than spend time/money toward a degree that I eventually give up on. Just picking one won't necessarily make it the one he sticks with.

So, I'd recommend gaining some "real world" experience while he's figuring things out. He might even find that he wants to pursue the job/career that he's in and put off grad school longer. It could be more valuable then if it's more relevant to something he's doing.

[Cooley4President]

So, I'd recommend gaining some "real world" experience while he's figuring things out. He might even find that he wants to pursue the job/career that he's in and put off grad school longer. It could be more valuable then if it's more relevant to something he's doing.

And you never know, he could get a job with a company that will pay for his grad school.

[Iced Coffee]

Why take a year off?

Can't you make a decison while in school?

Go to grad school (or law), and if you don't lik it quit and go the other direction.

I've never understood how this idea of taking a year off to figure things out, like doing nothing for year will really help you figure out what you want to do as compared to actually DOING something to move in a direction.

(Do they pay you or at least give out TA's where the waive tuition to get a PhD in psycology?)

The problem with this is that the time is like right this instant, where I have to study for either the LSAT or GRE which would be a commitment. I have been studying for the LSAT because I figured that is the harder of the two. But I am unsure which is like being at square one. A part of me wants to dive into it right away.. But as Duckus mentioned if I make the decision and it ends up being the wrong gamble and I end up in the 20,000-40,000 debt range I would regret that for the rest of my life.

And as far as I know in regard to the TA in stuff for PhD they give you stipends toward your tuition.



but take advantage of the resources your campus offers. The best thing a good college offers is networking opportunities. It's not just about the classes... it's about getting your feet in the door and meeting people who know and can mentor you. Theory only gets you so far.

I completely agree with this which is why I have been doing research in psychology and trying to get some work published-> which showed me that I'd rather stay away from the academia/research aspect of the field and be more in the applied aspect. As you said books/theory only take you so far. I’d want to try some law internships but the timing of it conflicts with my current job, research and academic work during the year which is why I would want to take a year off to explore that avenue.. But for some reason it is unacceptable in the eyes of my parents.

Which brings me to





Who gives a **** what your family believes in? This is YOUR life. You will be out of college. Start making your own decision. Listen to the advise of your family, but don't allow them to make your decisions.

Taking your time and finding out what you really want to do with your life is not wasting time or being irresponsible. Rushing into something, wasting thousands upon thousands of dollars and making yourself feel depressed all in need to rush towards the future is the real irresponsible and time wasting option.

I wish I didn’t give a **** about what my family believes in.. I know it is my life but it is this huge expectation of theirs that is overwhelming. Expectations are a *****

They have mentioned law school since I was a senior in high school.. at this point I don’t even know if it is what I want, or it is because it is what they want from me.

[Bliz]

Take at least 1-2 years off if you're thinking about law school. Right now the market is awful. Big firms have trimmed their ranks, decimated their summer associate programs, and cut back big-time on the number of new lawyers they're bringing in. There is a glut of young attorneys floating out there looking for jobs. Unless you want to be an ADA or public defender, want to practice in a small town where you know someone, or are confident you can go to a top tier school and graduate in the top 5-10%, you are taking a big risk.

Keep an eye on www.abovethelaw.com particularly between May and November (graduation through posting of bar results) and monitor the job market before committing the time and resources.


***edit*** and don't do it unless it's what YOU want. The lifestyle can be a ***** particularly depending on where you end up. You can work the same 50-60 (or more) hours per week and make just as much money doing something else. For the time commitment, it better be something you can find some enjoyment in

[DCSaints_fan]

Why take a year off?

Can't you make a decison while in school?

Go to grad school (or law), and if you don't lik it quit and go the other direction.

I've never understood how this idea of taking a year off to figure things out, like doing nothing for year will really help you figure out what you want to do as compared to actually DOING something to move in a direction.

(Do they pay you or at least give out TA's where the waive tuition to get a PhD in psycology?)

Well if you do want to take a year off, my suggestion would be to apply to the programs, get accepted, then say you are going to take a year off. I know someone who did this with medical school. I think you can do it with law school too. You won't be able to do it science since you will be tied to someone's grant funding.

[PeterMP]

Well if you do want to take a year off, my suggestion would be to apply to the programs, get accepted, then say you are going to take a year off. I know someone who did this with medical school. I think you can do it with law school too. You won't be able to do it science since you will be tied to someone's grant funding.
In sciences, your acceptance is independent of anybody's funding. You can certainly do this for most schools most of the time.

It might affect the work you can do or how you will get paid, but it might be a positive or negative.

[Spartacus87]

I have 2 friends who went half-way through Law School only to realize they hated it. They both owe in the range of $40,000 - $80,000 for that mistake. And those are loans on top of their $20,000-$30,000 for undergrad.
About 1/3rd of the people I know who have gone to law school or are going into law school really have no idea why they're doing it. Law school is just a "safe" answer to post-graduation and working towards a law degree typically sounds really respectable. I don't know anyone who's dropped out yet though.

[NewCliche21]

Just a question:

Why do you want the PhD in psych? What, exactly, do you want to do with it? If it's clinical, as in really working with people, then don't go that route. Almost every PhD in psych does three things:

1) Create a theory.
2) Try to prove the theory.
3) Write a paper about it.

If you want to actually work with people, then you're going the wrong route. Lawyers don't really help (I've been considering it) in any way that you could monetize very well. Doctorates in psych don't do anything other than what I listed above.

I wanted to do clinical therapy, so I went the LCSW-C route. When I have that license, I can do everything that a Ph.D in psychology can do, literally. I didn't have to take the GREs, I learned how to actually work with people rather than try to prove egocentric theories (which I'm doing ethically in my work, anyway), and I can make just as much doing therapy as someone else can. If I want, then I can go get my PsyD later, anyway.

If you want to help, then go LCSW-C.

If you don't, then pick one of the two paths that you are on.

[karmacop]

My advice as a lawyer -- don't go to law school unless you absolutely know you want to, and you have a true passion for some aspect of the law. Too many people just "go to law school" without knowing exactly why they are, or what they hope to do when they get out. These are the people who leave the law burned out and frustrated after a few years, with $120,000 in law school debt still to pay off.

And if you want to go to law school to "make a difference" in some public interest or governmental area (i.e., district attorney, public defender), know that your salary will be incredibly low and you will work incredibly hard anyway. As a result, you'll need to go to a cheaper law school (in-state?), get grants, or have some money already set aside before you enroll. Otherwise, you'll be forced to work at a firm doing a job you absolutely hate just to pay off your student loans.

However, if you know you want to go to law school, and you know the stress and long hours involved in the profession, then at least you're entering it with your eyes open, which is the only way to go. There are some perks to practicing law (interesting problems, intellectually stimulating, sometimes very good salary) that can make up for the negative aspects. As long as you know all this going in and make an informed choice, then the law can be a rewarding career.

[Iced Coffee]

Just a question:

Why do you want the PhD in psych? What, exactly, do you want to do with it? If it's clinical, as in really working with people, then don't go that route. Almost every PhD in psych does three things:

1) Create a theory.
2) Try to prove the theory.
3) Write a paper about it.



And you just brought up my biggest concern with a PhD in psych either clinical or counseling!

I just finished doing a year and half worth of research and in the process of getting my paper published.. but I did not enjoy the process at all which raises a lot of questions for me.

If I go further with psych my ideal job would be working with patients in a counseling or to a lesser degree clincal type setting. If it is anything heavily research/theory/academia/paper oriented I would hate my life. I am not 100% sure what would be the ideal degree for that. The PhD route is what keeps being mentioned by the people i talk to in my lab etc.

[NewCliche21]

And you just brought up my biggest concern with a PhD in psych either clinical or counseling!

I just finished doing a year and half worth of research and in the process of getting my paper published.. but I did not enjoy the process at all which raises a lot of questions for me.

If I go further with psych my ideal job would be working with patients in a counseling or to a lesser degree clincal type setting. If it is anything heavily research/theory/academia/paper oriented I would hate my life. I am not 100% sure what would be the ideal degree for that. The PhD route is what keeps being mentioned by the people i talk to in my lab etc.

Dude, go the LCSW-C route. Seriously. The ultimate goal of mine is to do counseling/therapy. In order to get your LCSW-C, you have to do the following:

1) Undergraduate degree.
2) Master's of Social Work, a two-year program (University of Maryland, Baltimore is one of the top schools in the nation and you get two field placements to figure out what you want to do. Specialize in mental health or children and families. Title IV-E program will pay for your school, but you must work in child welfare for two years)
3) Pass your LGSW exam once earning that master's.
4) 3,000 hours of client contact, half of which must be face-to-face, and 144 hours of at least weekly supervision by someone with an LCSW-C who is certified to be a supervisor.
5) You're done!

With all of that, you get a TREMENDOUS education in the real world problems of people, not just abstract DSM-IV TR diagnoses. You can get your school paid for, you get a couple of internships, you get a lot of experience with people, you make a lot of connections, you can become a therapist, everything.

Plus, there's more letters after your name, and if you're really into human services and not just stroking your own ego, you won't even use "Mr. Coffee", let alone "Dr. Coffee."

PM me if you want more info.

[Predicto]

My advice as a lawyer -- don't go to law school unless you absolutely know you want to, and you have a true passion for some aspect of the law. Too many people just "go to law school" without knowing exactly why they are, or what they hope to do when they get out. These are the people who leave the law burned out and frustrated after a few years, with $120,000 in law school debt still to pay off.



This is the truth, right here.

[No Excuses]

Don't worry, you aren't alone. I still can't decide between medical school, getting a PhD in Biology or listening to my dad and following in his path and becoming some sort of a fed employee. I think it's unfortunate that your family is making things tougher for you. I'm lucky in that regard because my parents are letting me take my time. Good luck dude.

Expectations are a ***** but be happy about the fact that you are capable enough of putting yourself in a position to go get a PhD or go to Law School.