NFL.com: NFL reportedly will adjust where umpire is stationed

[ACW]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81a27405/article/nfl-reportedly-will-adjust-where-umpire-is-stationed?module=HP_headlines

The NFL will inform teams Tuesday about tweaks to where the umpire will be stationed (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/31/sports/football/31umpire.html?_r=1&ref=football) in the offensive backfield, The New York Times reported.

The adjustments are in response to a new rule that moved the umpire from the middle of the defense to 14 to 17 yards behind the offense for safety reasons. That was adjusted to 12 yards back after the Hall of Fame Game so the ball could be spotted quicker. Still, the rule drew criticism from Indianapolis Colts (http://www.nfl.com/teams/indianapoliscolts/profile?team=IND) quarterback Peyton Manning (http://www.nfl.com/players/peytonmanning/profile?id=MAN515097), whose team was penalized twice for snapping the ball before the umpire was in position during a preseason game Thursday.


The latest tweaks, made after a conference call that included members of the league's competition committee, include requiring the umpire only to be standing behind the deepest member of the offense, and quarterbacks can look at officials near the sidelines to get the go-ahead to snap the ball, rather than turn around and look for a signal from the umpire.Rule makes sense, so do the changes. If PEYTON MANNING, the most cerebral player in the game, gets flagged twice...

[darklight1216]

I didn't expect it to stand. Heavens forbid they make a rule that gives the defense an advantage.

[ACW]

I didn't expect it to stand. Heavens forbid they make a rule that gives the defense an advantage.This is an UNFAIR advantage though.

[HailToTheRedskins14]

Pardon me if I'm not understanding it, but was this gonna result to, at some point(s) in the game, require the QB to turn around and check with the ump before hiking the ball?

If so, stupid.

[ACW]

Pardon me if I'm not understanding it, but was this gonna result to, at some point(s) in the game, require the QB to turn around and check with the ump before hiking the ball?

If so, stupid.:yes: Now apparently he'll "only" have to look at the line judge.

[darklight1216]

This is an UNFAIR advantage though.
Boo hoo.

Quarterbacks have rules protecting almost every part of their body. It's hard for me to feel sorry them because of this.

From what I've seen this pre-season, most teams aren't having issues with the new change.

Pardon me if I'm not understanding it, but was this gonna result to, at some point(s) in the game, require the QB to turn around and check with the ump before hiking the ball?

If so, stupid.
Well, they don't have to look back, but if the umpire isn't in place when they snap the ball, it will be an illegal snap. :silly:

[GhostofSparta]

This is an UNFAIR advantage though.
Well that's just to counteract the 50,000 times the umpire was an unfair advantage to the defense because the offensive players used him to set a pick on the defenders.

Look, offensive shootouts can be exciting, but if every game was like the Cards-Packers from last year's playoffs with scores of 40+ for each team, it would get old. At some point the league has to stop pandering to Peyton and the Colts/Brady and the Pats and let the defenses play.

The "illegal contact" rule? Put in place because Peyton and Dungy bitched about the Pats CBs knocking the WRs off their timing routes....the staple of the Colts offense (so both teams are to blame for that one). Carson Palmer has a Steelers DL dive at his knees causing an ACL tear in the playoffs? Whatever, no biggie. Tom Brady has the same thing happen to him a couple years later in the poening game of the year? Damnit, we HAVE to protect the QB's all of a sudden! If you're a DL and you're on the ground, you have to give up on the play, no fair trying to tackle a QB by grabbing at his legs! A defender can't put his hands above the neck on any player, but a RB can grab and shove a defender around by his facemask without a flag in sight (*cough Marion Barber cough*).

So forgive some of us (especially darklight, being a Ravens fan and all) for not getting overly upset about the offenses, and especially Peyton Manning, being almost possibly slightly incovenienced by having to wait an extra half a second before snapping the ball. Especially because they're already going to alter it for hurry-up situations.

[PokerPacker]

Manning went out of his way to force the issue. :cry:

[kiingspadee]

Here's the thing - the refs should not influence any part of the game. They should just be there to enforce the rules. The Colts run a sort of no huddle fast paced offense. The fact that the ump was slowing down their game was just pathetic. It's not that Peyton is crying it's the fact that they are stopping them from playing.

Peyton looks and say he sees an unmanned guy he wants to snap it fast to hit say a screen or slant or whatever. But gets flagged because the ump is too fat to get set.

Glad they fixed it.

[mossomo]

the fact that they are stopping them from playing.

From playing at the top of their game. Refs shouldn't be a hinderance to how fast an offense can get set and hike.

[Oldskool]

I was watching NFLN and Sapp was demonstrating that with the new placement of the referee to the left shoulder of the QB instead of behind the DL, that DT's and NT's are going to be holding like crazy because the ref cannot see it.

[darklight1216]

Well that's just to counteract the 50,000 times the umpire was an unfair advantage to the defense because the offensive players used him to set a pick on the defenders.

Look, offensive shootouts can be exciting, but if every game was like the Cards-Packers from last year's playoffs with scores of 40+ for each team, it would get old. At some point the league has to stop pandering to Peyton and the Colts/Brady and the Pats and let the defenses play.

The "illegal contact" rule? Put in place because Peyton and Dungy bitched about the Pats CBs knocking the WRs off their timing routes....the staple of the Colts offense (so both teams are to blame for that one). Carson Palmer has a Steelers DL dive at his knees causing an ACL tear in the playoffs? Whatever, no biggie. Tom Brady has the same thing happen to him a couple years later in the poening game of the year? Damnit, we HAVE to protect the QB's all of a sudden! If you're a DL and you're on the ground, you have to give up on the play, no fair trying to tackle a QB by grabbing at his legs! A defender can't put his hands above the neck on any player, but a RB can grab and shove a defender around by his facemask without a flag in sight (*cough Marion Barber cough*).

So forgive some of us (especially darklight, being a Ravens fan and all) for not getting overly upset about the offenses, and especially Peyton Manning, being almost possibly slightly incovenienced by having to wait an extra half a second before snapping the ball. Especially because they're already going to alter it for hurry-up situations.
Thank you! QFT

[jflow78]

I'm glad they moved the ref, I got tired of seeing passes bounce off of refs, or runningbacks or defenders having to change their direction because the ref was in the way.

I did watch the Packers/Colts game and it was pretty obvious the ref was a bit of a nuisance. It seemed like it took a lot of time for him to get positioned. Seemed like it slowed the game down a lot, and I don't like watching baseball so I definitely don't want football to become that.

Moving the ref up a few feet will help out a little, so we'll see how it goes, I suppose.


I was watching NFLN and Sapp was demonstrating that with the new placement of the referee to the left shoulder of the QB instead of behind the DL, that DT's and NT's are going to be holding like crazy because the ref cannot see it.

That actually doesn't bother me in the least, since OL get away with it nearly the entire game. I am so sick of watching OL get away with obvious holding I'll get some sort of disturbing satisfaction watching them go crazy when it's happening to them.

[darklight1216]

That actually doesn't bother me in the least, since OL get away with it nearly the entire game. I am so sick of watching OL get away with obvious holding I'll get some sort of disturbing satisfaction watching them go crazy when it's happening to them.
I like the way you think. :evilg:

[C26 Run]

I guess it takes the right QB to complain about the rule. Now who says it's not a Quarterback driven league?

:helmet:

[ACW]

Here's the thing - the refs should not influence any part of the game.QFT.
I was watching NFLN and Sapp was demonstrating that with the new placement of the referee to the left shoulder of the QB instead of behind the DL, that DT's and NT's are going to be holding like crazy because the ref cannot see it.Saw that. Maybe they need to create robotic refs on both ends?

[Xameil]

with all the technology now, you would think it would be easy to just put an official in the booth looking at the feed from the overhead camera and make calls that way. Get the ump off the field all together.

[Passizle]

How about instead of an either/or thing, they shoudl use the old style back judge AND the one behind the LOS. If either are in position, its ok to snap the ball?

[Oldskool]

That actually doesn't bother me in the least, since OL get away with it nearly the entire game. I am so sick of watching OL get away with obvious holding I'll get some sort of disturbing satisfaction watching them go crazy when it's happening to them.

Considering how much of the ZBS involves shedding/moving your initial DL and getting to the 2nd level on the running game, this could have serious implications for the Skins this year.

[DCsportsfan53]

Every time something affects Peyton negatively it gets changed, lol. The whole defensive holding and re-emphasis on the 5 yard chuck rule came out almost solely due to Peyton's WRs getting manhandled by the Pats in the playoffs, now he can't run his precious hurry up fast enough.

[pjfootballer]

A defender can't put his hands above the neck on any player, but a RB can grab and shove a defender around by his facemask without a flag in sight (*cough Marion Barber cough*).



Can someone from the NFL please explain to me why ball carriers can grab, push, wrench and rip a defender's facemask with a stiff arm, but nobody else (including offensive linemen) can touch a facemask? Shouldn't it be illegal hands to the face, facemask or something? Pisses me off every time I see it.

[Oldskool]

Can someone from the NFL please explain to me why ball carriers can grab, push, wrench and rip a defender's facemask with a stiff arm, but nobody else (including offensive linemen) can touch a facemask? Shouldn't it be illegal hands to the face, facemask or something? Pisses me off every time I see it.

Because they aren't using that part of the equipment to tackle or wrench someone down. It's simply a leftover from the days when everyone could put their hands on another players neck, or helmet.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Seriously, why doesn't the league just let Bill ****ing Polian decide all the ****ing rules? It seems that everything has to be approved by him anyway. Just cut out the middleman.

[Warhead36]

I don't get the hate towards Manning. This makes perfect sense. Just wait till McNabb tries to lead a 2 minute drill to try to win us a game late and we end up losing because waiting for the ref ends up costing us time. This new ref placement hurts the flow of the game.

[ACW]

I don't get the hate towards Manning. This makes perfect sense. Just wait till McNabb tries to lead a 2 minute drill to try to win us a game late and we end up losing because waiting for the ref ends up costing us time. This new ref placement hurts the flow of the game.Agreed. Hate him or not, he has a legit complaint. And again, when you have THE most cerebral QB getting flagged twice for this...

[ntotoro]

I don't get the hate towards Manning. This makes perfect sense. Just wait till McNabb tries to lead a 2 minute drill to try to win us a game late and we end up losing because waiting for the ref ends up costing us time. This new ref placement hurts the flow of the game.

Hard to disagree with that. Regardless what people's thoughts are of Manning, this complaint or whatever, the rule's existence hurts the flow of the game and we'll see it most in two-minute drills. It's just a dumb rule to begin with.

[kiingspadee]

Yeah a lot of hate on Manning which I don't understand

[GhostofSparta]

I don't get the hate towards Manning. This makes perfect sense. Just wait till McNabb tries to lead a 2 minute drill to try to win us a game late and we end up losing because waiting for the ref ends up costing us time. This new ref placement hurts the flow of the game.


Agreed. Hate him or not, he has a legit complaint. And again, when you have THE most cerebral QB getting flagged twice for this...


Yeah a lot of hate on Manning which I don't understand
I won't pretend to speak for anybody else, but I'm actually a fan of Peyton Manning. But this whole "This rule unfairly affects me and my team" routine he's trying to pull here is annoying. Yes, Manning got flagged for this penalty twice in 1 game (Actually, twice in 1 half). How many other times was this penalty called in the preseason on all the other QBs? It's the special treatment that he demands.

As I and another poster pointed out, the 5-yard illegal contact rule was basically installed because Manning didn't like that the Pats had figured out a legal way to beat him, so he and Polian lobbied to have the rule changed. And it worked. Have Peyton and Brady take the kinds of hits that Campbell, McNabb, Romo, Henne, Gradkowski, etc take, and flags would be thrown 11 times out of 10 on those 2 special players. The rest have to just pick themselves up and go on without a free 15 yards.

Look at a simliar situation that occured in reverse: The Roy Williams Horsecollar rule. RW was a terrible safety that always got beat deep, but he had the speed to play catch up and save a TD with a tackle from behind. One play he breaks TO's ankle, suddenly there is outrage and the rule is changed, and RW proceeds to fall off the face of the earth. But nobody was crying to repeal the rule because it adversely affected 1 player....but I guess he was the wrong player. If that 1 player adversely affected is Manning or Brady, well we should look at it again and make sure that it's ok with that player.

So again, I can't speak for others, but I just hate the fact that there are 2 or 3 players in the entire league that can have entire rules changed because they don't like it. I get it, QBs like Manning, Brady, and Favre are the ones that get the most ratings, but what happens when they retire and suddenly other, less popular players want the spotlight and start demanding rule changes so this can happen?

[darklight1216]

I won't pretend to speak for anybody else, but I'm actually a fan of Peyton Manning. But this whole "This rule unfairly affects me and my team" routine he's trying to pull here is annoying. Yes, Manning got flagged for this penalty twice in 1 game (Actually, twice in 1 half). How many other times was this penalty called in the preseason on all the other QBs? It's the special treatment that he demands.

As I and another poster pointed out, the 5-yard illegal contact rule was basically installed because Manning didn't like that the Pats had figured out a legal way to beat him, so he and Polian lobbied to have the rule changed. And it worked. Have Peyton and Brady take the kinds of hits that Campbell, McNabb, Romo, Henne, Gradkowski, etc take, and flags would be thrown 11 times out of 10 on those 2 special players. The rest have to just pick themselves up and go on without a free 15 yards.

Look at a simliar situation that occured in reverse: The Roy Williams Horsecollar rule. RW was a terrible safety that always got beat deep, but he had the speed to play catch up and save a TD with a tackle from behind. One play he breaks TO's ankle, suddenly there is outrage and the rule is changed, and RW proceeds to fall off the face of the earth. But nobody was crying to repeal the rule because it adversely affected 1 player....but I guess he was the wrong player. If that 1 player adversely affected is Manning or Brady, well we should look at it again and make sure that it's ok with that player.

So again, I can't speak for others, but I just hate the fact that there are 2 or 3 players in the entire league that can have entire rules changed because they don't like it. I get it, QBs like Manning, Brady, and Favre are the ones that get the most ratings, but what happens when they retire and suddenly other, less popular players want the spotlight and start demanding rule changes so this can happen?
You can speak for me on this issue. Preach it. :D

... Except for the part about being a fan of Manning, to me he is like every other player who doesn't wear black and purple: the enemy.

[Xameil]

I don't get the hate towards Manning. This makes perfect sense. Just wait till McNabb tries to lead a 2 minute drill to try to win us a game late and we end up losing because waiting for the ref ends up costing us time. This new ref placement hurts the flow of the game.

From what I heard on NFL radio, the umpire goes back to the defensive side of the ball during the final 2 mins. Did they get that wrong?

[ACW]

I'm actually GLAD they got rid of the horsecollar. And if Roy isn't good w/o it, I guess he's just not that good.

[TURKEYTALKER]

why not make officals full time and maybe they will not be old and slow and he could stay behind the linebackers

[pjfootballer]

Because they aren't using that part of the equipment to tackle or wrench someone down. It's simply a leftover from the days when everyone could put their hands on another players neck, or helmet.

But it should be a safety issue. Jamming the neck back or grabbing on to the facemask is just as dangerous.

[Sweet Sassy Molassy]

I won't pretend to speak for anybody else, but I'm actually a fan of Peyton Manning. But this whole "This rule unfairly affects me and my team" routine he's trying to pull here is annoying. Yes, Manning got flagged for this penalty twice in 1 game (Actually, twice in 1 half). How many other times was this penalty called in the preseason on all the other QBs? It's the special treatment that he demands.

As I and another poster pointed out, the 5-yard illegal contact rule was basically installed because Manning didn't like that the Pats had figured out a legal way to beat him, so he and Polian lobbied to have the rule changed. And it worked. Have Peyton and Brady take the kinds of hits that Campbell, McNabb, Romo, Henne, Gradkowski, etc take, and flags would be thrown 11 times out of 10 on those 2 special players. The rest have to just pick themselves up and go on without a free 15 yards.

Look at a simliar situation that occured in reverse: The Roy Williams Horsecollar rule. RW was a terrible safety that always got beat deep, but he had the speed to play catch up and save a TD with a tackle from behind. One play he breaks TO's ankle, suddenly there is outrage and the rule is changed, and RW proceeds to fall off the face of the earth. But nobody was crying to repeal the rule because it adversely affected 1 player....but I guess he was the wrong player. If that 1 player adversely affected is Manning or Brady, well we should look at it again and make sure that it's ok with that player.

So again, I can't speak for others, but I just hate the fact that there are 2 or 3 players in the entire league that can have entire rules changed because they don't like it. I get it, QBs like Manning, Brady, and Favre are the ones that get the most ratings, but what happens when they retire and suddenly other, less popular players want the spotlight and start demanding rule changes so this can happen?

Premiere players get premiere benefits, it happens in all forms of sports. I've accepted that much. However, I think that anytime anyone other than another player causes an issue with how a team plays the game, within the rules btw, there should be a change. Everyone knows that the Colts use the hurry up offense as part of their gameplan, and the umpires should never interfere with a teams gameplan. If the Cowboys were upset about the change for the same reason, I'd agree with them.

[ACW]

Am the only one who'd be fine if they wouldn't make holding a penalty? It's SO subjectively called anyway.

[ConnSKINS26]

Am the only one who'd be fine if they wouldn't make holding a penalty? It's SO subjectively called anyway.

Yes, you are. Or what we now think of as line play would never be the same :doh:

The calling of the penalty is very subjective, yes. But the fear of being called keeps most players in line, most of the time.

[Sweet Sassy Molassy]

Am the only one who'd be fine if they wouldn't make holding a penalty? It's SO subjectively called anyway.
That sounds great until in a regular season game you watch Brian Orakpo get held every time he tries to rush the passer. Then you'll realize that's a terrible idea.

[authentic]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81a27405/article/nfl-reportedly-will-adjust-where-umpire-is-stationed?module=HP_headlines
Rule makes sense, so do the changes. If PEYTON MANNING, the most cerebral player in the game, gets flagged twice...

Lets just call the new rule "Rule the Peyton Manning Rule"

[ACW]

That sounds great until in a regular season game you watch Brian Orakpo get held every time he tries to rush the passer. Then you'll realize that's a terrible idea.I see what you and Conn are saying, but it seems to ME at least that it goes on all the time.

[ConnSKINS26]

I see what you and Conn are saying, but it seems to ME at least that it goes on all the time.

Yes, but usually not blatantly. You don't usually see obvious grabbing of the jersey, without moving the feet, that leads to being thrown on the ground. Not unless its a last ditch effort to save your QB from getting killed.

With your idea, you'd see it every play.

[Enter Apotheosis]

Not to pile on (okay... maybe to pile on) but that is a terrible idea, ACW.

[Oldskool]

But it should be a safety issue. Jamming the neck back or grabbing on to the facemask is just as dangerous.

I agree with you on the safety issue.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Yeah a lot of hate on Manning which I don't understand

Because he is a whiny ********** with a large fetus head.

"Oooohhhh....I'm Peyton Manning. I never make mistakes. It was the line or the mean Patriots or the officials or the kicker."

If he was in prison, he would be wearing makeup and being passed out by the Aryans like a bong. *****.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Premiere players get premiere benefits, it happens in all forms of sports. I've accepted that much. However, I think that anytime anyone other than another player causes an issue with how a team plays the game, within the rules btw, there should be a change. Everyone knows that the Colts use the hurry up offense as part of their gameplan, and the umpires should never interfere with a teams gameplan. If the Cowboys were upset about the change for the same reason, I'd agree with them.

It's the ****ing sense of entitlement that all the Mannings have.

"I don't like it. Therefore, it must be wrong."

That pretty much summarizes Peyton's entire career.

Seriously, how did Polian, Dungy, and Manning ever sit in the same room together? It would need to be the size of the Reagan Building just to fit their feelings of entitlement.

I'm one of the few people who admit that I watch football in part for the horrific injuries. And nothing - NOTHING! - would make me happier to see any of the Mannings get a Theisman-esque injury. Granted, it seems unlikely that it would occur to Archie. But I can dream, can't I?

[Xameil]

It's the ****ing sense of entitlement that all the Mannings have.

"I don't like it. Therefore, it must be wrong."

That pretty much summarizes Peyton's entire career.

Seriously, how did Polian, Dungy, and Manning ever sit in the same room together? It would need to be the size of the Reagan Building just to fit their feelings of entitlement.

I'm one of the few people who admit that I watch football in part for the horrific injuries. And nothing - NOTHING! - would make me happier to see any of the Mannings get a Theisman-esque injury. Granted, it seems unlikely that it would occur to Archie. But I can dream, can't I?

wow man...did one of them kick your dog, or pee in your cheerios?

I know most of the stuff you say are heavy in sarcasm but DAYUM!!!!

[darklight1216]

Because he is a whiny ********** with a large fetus head.

"Oooohhhh....I'm Peyton Manning. I never make mistakes. It was the line or the mean Patriots or the officials or the kicker."

If he was in prison, he would be wearing makeup and being passed out by the Aryans like a bong. *****.
And I thought I wasn't a Manning fan... O.O

[Sweet Sassy Molassy]

It's the ****ing sense of entitlement that all the Mannings have.

"I don't like it. Therefore, it must be wrong."

That pretty much summarizes Peyton's entire career.

Seriously, how did Polian, Dungy, and Manning ever sit in the same room together? It would need to be the size of the Reagan Building just to fit their feelings of entitlement.

I'm one of the few people who admit that I watch football in part for the horrific injuries. And nothing - NOTHING! - would make me happier to see any of the Mannings get a Theisman-esque injury. Granted, it seems unlikely that it would occur to Archie. But I can dream, can't I?
You sound like a bitter woman. Regardless, I don't think there's any problem with them asking for a rule change, and I don't see it as a sense of entitlement (and I know what you're getting at, but that's not the point of the thread) when a ref interferes with the game, something has to change. I've always felt that way, even when the umps were on the defensive side of the ball, I hate seeing refs get in the way of a play, and I've always felt that in such a situation when a ref interferes with a play it should be a replay of downs.

[Park City Skins]

I don't know. Maybe I've been watching different preseason games than others,but I recall listening to players and announcers,(mostly announcers),***** about this rule since the preseason first started. Several of them used that Colt's game earlier in the preseason as a prime example of why this repositioning of the Umpire was a bad idea. Stating that the Colts were just one of a few teams that would be affected by it consistently. Of course,there have been some who had no problem with it and said things were fine and teams would learn to adjust. Point being is that there has been noise about this and it hasn't been coming from just Peyton Manning. Though apparently his has been the loudest. Or at least the most notable.