CNN: 'Blackout in a can' blamed for student party illnesses

[JMS]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/10/25/washington.students.overdose/index.html?hpt=T2


'Blackout in a can' blamed for student party illnesses

(CNN) -- Nine Central Washington University students hospitalized this month after an off-campus party were sickened by "Four Loko," a caffeinated malt liquor also known as "blackout in a can," according to a police investigation.
Investigators concluded that none of the students were drugged or given alcohol without their knowledge and no sexual assaults occurred, according to a school statement.
The findings convinced university President James Gaudino to ban "alcohol energy drinks" from his campus.
"We need to make sure that we're sending a strong message to students about the dangers of alcohol energy drinks and we need to know more about the way it affects health and behavior," Gaudino said.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Yep, blame the beverage and not the kids who choose to drink it.

[Skinz4Life12]

red balls: cocaine in a can

[Botched]

So...an alcoholic beverage made college students sick?

[thebluefood]

Yep, blame the beverage and not the kids who choose to drink it.

Exactly.

Personal responsibility seems to be a foreign concept in society.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Exactly.

Personal responsibility seems to be a foreign concept in society.

It drives me nuts...

"I drank too much of a drink with the word "Loco" in the name and now I don't feel good." Boo hoo...who cares that your friends referred to it as "blackout in a can" prior to you drinking it?

[JMS]

Yeah I think you guys are missing the point. The drink isn't an energy drink. It's a drink designed to allow it's consumers to get extra screwed up..... It's got cafein in it so you don't loose coordination and other ingredients so you don't vomit. Evidently thse students were so drunk that the police couldn't distinguish between being drunk and on roofies.....

[OU_skins]

My friend drank two of these on Saturday and it was a freakin disaster. They're huge at my school, but I refuse to ever drink one.

[Fight4RGIII]

Four Locos are terrible. Taste terrible and I had two of them in about an hour. But, its about 4-6 beers worth in one can so you can get drunk really fast especially if your alcohol tolerance is low.

[daveakl]

Not going to lie, one of those can be a blast, 2 is insane!

[skinsgirl26]

Not going to lie, one of those can be a blast, 2 is insane!

Yeah we used to drink these all the time at tailgates for noon games...early morning, somethin sweet, gets ya feelin good pretty darn quickly....

I like Joose better. But drinkin a whole one of either makes my stomach hurt from all the sugar :(

These kids are stupid. Can I blame Jack Daniels next time it makes me sick?

[Mickalino]

red balls

You might want to see a doctor about that problem

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Yeah I think you guys are missing the point. The drink isn't an energy drink. It's a drink designed to allow it's consumers to get extra screwed up..... It's got cafein in it so you don't loose coordination and other ingredients so you don't vomit. Evidently thse students were so drunk that the police couldn't distinguish between being drunk and on roofies.....

I'm not missing the point. It's a malt liquor that is 12 or 13% alcohol and has caffeine. The point, at least to me, is that you would be idiotic to drink this at all, let alone more than one of them. If you do, that's OK, but just don't act surprised when you're obliterated. It's no different than drinking a bunch of Red Bull/Vodkas or any other alcoholic drinks. Do it in moderation and switch over the beer or something.

[thebluefood]

And people wonder why I don't drink.

[lovetoaster]

I'm not missing the point. It's a malt liquor that is 12 or 13% alcohol and has caffeine. The point, at least to me, is that you would be idiotic to drink this at all, let alone more than one of them. If you do, that's OK, but just don't act surprised when you're obliterated. It's no different than drinking a bunch of Red Bull/Vodkas or any other alcoholic drinks. Do it in moderation and switch over the beer or something.

Yep. You pretty much know what you are getting into with these. I have drank plenty of similar beverages in the past and they accomplish their goal, but you can't plead ignorance when you are smashed as a result of a few too many of these. Just look at the way they are marketed. These are not something you drink to relax after work; these have another objective in mind.

[DjTj]

Yep, blame the beverage and not the kids who choose to drink it.Who says the kids aren't getting blamed?


ELLENSBURG — Central Washington University officials say 40 students face conduct hearings due to a house party in Roslyn where a number of people became sick.

The university says more students will be notified of hearings after police provide their names. Police have interviewed 54 students and three others. Sanctions could range from an alcohol-education class to suspension or expulsion.http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2013235923_overdoses23.html

[fullnelson9999]

I'm not saying that you have to completely blame the kids, but its college. Kids are tight for money and they can get absolutely hammered on this stuff for 6 bucks.

[Drop]

i'm sorry but if you're a guy and you're drinking this crap.....you are one of the many reasons that dudes have replaced men.

[ixcuincle]

red balls: cocaine in a can

Any Chappelle's Show quote needs more attention

JAILOR...MAY I HAVE A RED BALLS

Anyway this product put their BAC up to some ridiculously high level, unsafe product

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Who says the kids aren't getting blamed?



Well this leads me to believe that they would rather remove personal accountability from the equation:

Washington State Attorney General Rob McKenna is calling for federal food regulators to ban the beverages.

"They're marketed to kids by using fruit flavors that mask the taste of alcohol and they have such high levels of stimulants that people have no idea how inebriated they really are," McKenna said. "They're packaged just like non-alcoholic drinks, but include a dangerous dose of malt liquor."

From what I can tell, there is nothing deceitful on the labels of these drinks. If you ban them, wouldn't you have to ban a whole lot of other alcoholic beverages? Also, why blame the company who makes this product if some of the kids were mixing hard alcohol with these drinks?

This story is really no different than any other "underage kids drinking too much in college" story all throughout the US except for the fact that there's a slight angle to blame someone else.

[UNC-Skins]

powerthirst

[lovetoaster]

i'm sorry but if you're a guy and you're drinking this crap.....you are one of the many reasons that dudes have replaced men.

As I said before, I have had similar beverages in the past, but it has been years. I might have had one right before going to the bar to give a little kick start, but that was about it. I can see why people drink them, but they are not really the best idea, or the best thing for you.

[Skinz4Life12]

i've tried that joose ("Jooooooooooooooooose" as my friend puts it) **** and it will get you pretty tore up in a hurry

[desioreo87]

when i saw this thread title i immediately thought of four locos. One can had me drunk as **** and Im 220lbs.

[Sticksboi05]

I drink it. It's cheap and it gets the job done. But when I do drink it I...

.always drink on a full stomach
.don't consume any other alcohol for the rest of the night
.one can is the max
.drink gradually
.drink early so I don't wake up feeling sick

It's called being responsible. Sorry they are too dumb to be responsible.

But they are terrible for you and I'm probably going to just stop with them after Halloween cause I'll actually have cash.

[Bang]

Exactly.

Personal responsibility seems to be a foreign concept in society.
I don't think that was the point of the article.
I don't see anywhere that anyone is saying that they didn't make a mistake. They drank too much of this stuff, and it sent them to the hospital, and the University wants to raise awareness around the campus of what these drinks can do.

Sounds to me as if the university is being responsible in this matter and making a push to send a message, not ban any drinks or parties. And by their doing so, maybe some of their students will know better and be a little more informed about these drinks.

~Bang

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Bang, the state Attorney General is calling for the banning of these drinks. To me, that's implicitly removing personal accountability from the students. See Stick's post...he drinks them but takes certain measures when doing so because he took 5 minutes to understand consequences.

[Mickalino]

But when I do drink it I...

.always drink on a full stomach
.don't consume any other alcohol for the rest of the night
.one can is the max
.drink gradually


So basically, you get no buzz at all from the drink :silly:

[DarrellsMyHero28]

Bang, the state Attorney General is calling for the banning of these drinks. To me, that's implicitly removing personal accountability from the students. See Stick's post...he drinks them but takes certain measures when doing so because he took 5 minutes to understand consequences.

These drinks are HORRIBLE for you.

Combining large amounts of alcohol and caffeine is terrible for your heart. If you choose to drink it so be it, its not like you can't go to a bar and order a Red Bull and vodka but there's a reason why drinks like Sparks were forced to remove the caffeine from their beverages.

Obviously you should be held responsible for your actions, and I don't think the company is necessarily being deceitful (I mean, who wants to drink something that tastes like the ****ty alcohol that they put in it? Isn't that the point of a mixed drink, to mask the taste of the bad liquor you're putting in it?) but at the same time these drinks are dangerous for your heart health.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

These drinks are HORRIBLE for you.

Combining large amounts of alcohol and caffeine is terrible for your heart. If you choose to drink it so be it, its not like you can't go to a bar and order a Red Bull and vodka but there's a reason why drinks like Sparks were forced to remove the caffeine from their beverages.

Obviously you should be held responsible for your actions, and I don't think the company is necessarily being deceitful (I mean, who wants to drink something that tastes like the ****ty alcohol that they put in it? Isn't that the point of a mixed drink, to mask the taste of the bad liquor you're putting in it?) but at the same time these drinks are dangerous for your heart health.

Maybe so, but why don't we ban cigarettes or Red Bulls or soda if we're going to start banning everything that's bad for you?

[Mickalino]

Combining large amounts of alcohol and caffeine is terrible for your heart.

A lot of mixed drinks are mixed with Coke, and if you multiply the caffeine in several Rum & Cokes, or Jack & Cokes, etc, it's almost the same thing.

[DarrellsMyHero28]

Maybe so, but why don't we ban cigarettes or Red Bulls or soda if we're going to start banning everything that's bad for you?

A) Red Bulls, without adding a depressant, are not that bad for you

B) Cigarettes will never be banned and you know that. BUT there are massive efforts from the government and private organizations to educate the public about the dangers of smoking. Same with drinking and driving, huffing household products etc etc. There's plenty of young people in the world that have no clue how awful it is to drink alcohol with energy drinks.

[DarrellsMyHero28]

A lot of mixed drinks are mixed with Coke, and if you multiply the caffeine in several Rum & Cokes, or Jack & Cokes, etc, it's almost the same thing.

True, but they're not sold in one can with a much higher amount of alcohol and caffeine. I'm not saying we should necessarily ban them but there needs to be an effort to educate people about the dangers of combining alcohol and caffeine in large quantities.

Obviously we can't just go willy nilly banning everything that may be bad for you...we'd run out of food but this stuff can give you a heart attack not to mention how extremely intoxicated it can get people because of its strong flavor (which I personally think is awful).

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Darrell, I see all your points and have no issues with the university making its students more aware. I have an issue with the Attorney General stepping in and banning something because those students didn't drink something responsibly. As Mick pointed out, this is not much different than mixing Red Bull and vodka. And, even if it is, it's certainly something that most of these kids must have known if they call it "blackout in a can" to begin with.

So again, I just get sick of the blame game that seems to be at play every time someone in this country does something that he or she regrets. Thankfully, it's not to the level that these things get at times and none of the parents are talking lawsuit against the company or something ridiculous like that.

[Bang]

Bang, the state Attorney General is calling for the banning of these drinks. To me, that's implicitly removing personal accountability from the students. See Stick's post...he drinks them but takes certain measures when doing so because he took 5 minutes to understand consequences.

The state's attorney sees a potentially dangerous drink being specifically marketed to young people, several of which have landed in the hospital. Sounds to me like he's doing his job of safeguarding the public.
I'm sure plenty of people in his state have landed drunk in jail or the hospital off of Jack Daniels, too. But he's not banning that. I'm certain every weekend people drinking beer kill innocents in his state with their cars, and he won't ban that. He's going after this fortified drink that tastes and looks like a kid's beverage that is being marketed to kids with one purpose, and that is to get them WAY ****ed up.

I've never drunk the stuff, but in reading the comments in this thread of those who have, it does sound like a pretty potent concoction made to look and taste like it's not.
Should we allow anything to be sold on the premise that if you're too stupid to use it, it's your own fault?

~Bang

[Skinz4Life12]

caffeine + alcohol is worse for you than each of those ingredients consumed seperately?

[TD_washingtonredskins]

The state's attorney sees a potentially dangerous drink being specifically marketed to young people, several of which have landed in the hospital. Sounds to me like he's doing his job of safeguarding the public.
I've never drunk the stuff, but in reading the comments in this thread of those who have, it does sound like a pretty potent concoction made to look and taste like it's not.
Should we allow anything to be sold on the premise that if you're too stupid to use it, it's your own fault?

~Bang

I too have never had it and don't really care if it's banned or taken off the market. But, if you do that, why do we sell cigarettes and grain alcohol and other things that have negative health impacts or are fine in moderation? Stickboi drinks the stuff and seems to have a handle on how to use it. The same could be said of someone who drinks 4 beers and calls it a night vs. polishing off a case of beer and passing out on the basement floor of a fraternity house.

I guess I just get sick of the "so-and-so went over the top and abused X so we're going to ban X even though the majority of people who eat/drink X are fine".

[DarrellsMyHero28]

Darrell, I see all your points and have no issues with the university making its students more aware. I have an issue with the Attorney General stepping in and banning something because those students didn't drink something responsibly. As Mick pointed out, this is not much different than mixing Red Bull and vodka. And, even if it is, it's certainly something that most of these kids must have known if they call it "blackout in a can" to begin with.

So again, I just get sick of the blame game that seems to be at play every time someone in this country does something that he or she regrets. Thankfully, it's not to the level that these things get at times and none of the parents are talking lawsuit against the company or something ridiculous like that.

Check out this link:

http://www.aboutlawsuits.com/energy-drink-lawsuit-sparks-998/

Sparks is essentially the same drink.

Of course you can mix Red Bull and Vodka but I mean you can go have surgery and get some Vicodin for it and then go to a kegger and get smashed. Or even something as seemingly painless as Sudafed or Advil, when combined with alcohol can really do some serious damage.



The state's attorney sees a potentially dangerous drink being specifically marketed to young people, several of which have landed in the hospital. Sounds to me like he's doing his job of safeguarding the public.
I'm sure plenty of people in his state have landed drunk in jail or the hospital off of Jack Daniels, too. But he's not banning that. He's going after this fortified drink that tastes and looks like a kid's beverage.
I've never drunk the stuff, but in reading the comments in this thread of those who have, it does sound like a pretty potent concoction made to look and taste like it's not.
Should we allow anything to be sold on the premise that if you're too stupid to use it, it's your own fault?

~Bang

I like this.


caffeine + alcohol is worse for you than each of those ingredients consumed seperately?

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking.

If you were to drink a bunch of liquor and then drink Red Bull it would obviously still be in your body at the same time...

[Skinz4Life12]

I'm asking if drinking a caffeine and alcohol drink (joose, sparks, four loko) is worse for you than drinking alcohol or caffeine seperately and not mixed

[generaltso]

The state's attorney sees a potentially dangerous drink being specifically marketed to young people, several of which have landed in the hospital. Sounds to me like he's doing his job of safeguarding the public.
I'm sure plenty of people in his state have landed drunk in jail or the hospital off of Jack Daniels, too. But he's not banning that. I'm certain every weekend people drinking beer kill innocents in his state with their cars, and he won't ban that. He's going after this fortified drink that tastes and looks like a kid's beverage that is being marketed to kids with one purpose, and that is to get them WAY ****ed up.

I've never drunk the stuff, but in reading the comments in this thread of those who have, it does sound like a pretty potent concoction made to look and taste like it's not.
Should we allow anything to be sold on the premise that if you're too stupid to use it, it's your own fault?

~Bang

then get them to change the packaging and make them follow the same rules that beer advertisers do.

[Mickalino]

I'm asking if drinking a caffeine and alcohol drink (joose, sparks, four loko) is worse for you than drinking alcohol or caffeine seperately and not mixed

You mean in separate drinks during the same drinking binge ?
or like on separate days, like a bunch of caffeine one day and a bunch of alcohol another day ?

[Skinz4Life12]

seperate days....like if you drink a **** load of alcohol by itself and then the next day drink a bunch of caffeine. how is that compared to drinking of bunch of alcohol and caffeine at the same time?

[DarrellsMyHero28]

I'm asking if drinking a caffeine and alcohol drink (joose, sparks, four loko) is worse for you than drinking alcohol or caffeine seperately and not mixed

Combining a stimulant and a depressant or an upper and a downer at the same time (whether its in the same drink or not) is always a bad idea when its in large quantities.

The amount of caffeine in a Coke or a Dr. Pepper or your run of the mill soda won't do anything and probably wouldn't hurt you even if you pounded Jack and Coke all night but a bunch of Sparks/4Lokos/Joose's can do some serious damage over time.

It doesn't matter if its in the same drink. If you were to take a very caffeinated beverage and a very alcoholic beverage and drink them in two separate containers but drink one right after the other you'd have the same result. Both substances are in your body at the same time.

[lovetoaster]

I'm asking if drinking a caffeine and alcohol drink (joose, sparks, four loko) is worse for you than drinking alcohol or caffeine seperately and not mixed

Yes. It is a stimulant and a depressant at the same time. You don't feel as impaired as you are until the caffeine wears off. Or at least that is how I understand it. But red bull and vodka or jager, or whatever essentially has the same effect. But you can't get that at your local 7-11.

[DarrellsMyHero28]

seperate days....like if you drink a **** load of alcohol by itself and then the next day drink a bunch of caffeine. how is that compared to drinking of bunch of alcohol and caffeine at the same time?

Drinking it the next day wouldn't be a problem. Honestly this stuff won't give you a heart attack in one night (well its not likely) but you'd be damaging your heart over time if you continued to do it on a regular basis.

So basically, you go out and get really ****ed up one night and need to drink a bunch of coffee the next day to stay awake? I wouldn't worry about it.

[Mickalino]

seperate days....like if you drink a **** load of alcohol by itself and then the next day drink a bunch of caffeine. how is that compared to drinking of bunch of alcohol and caffeine at the same time?

Definitely worse to mix it, for several reasons. For one, like the article says, the caffeine is countering your body's natural defense mechanisms (passing out) to protect you from dying from alcohol overdose. You're basically masking the symptoms of alcohol abuse with the caffeine to an extent, by adding the stimulant, so you're not truly aware of how much alcohol you've had. The sugar also masks the alcohol, but more-so masks it in the taste, as opposed to the symptoms.
And by drinking together, you're also compounding the effect on your heart and other organs....like a bad chemical reaction, as previously mentioned.

[Skinz4Life12]

good info there. obviously drinking alcohol is bad for you, but in moderation its nothing to be overly concerned about. is the same thing true for caffeine? can you be a regular coffee drinker and not worry about negative effects on your body?

[DarrellsMyHero28]

good info there. obviously drinking alcohol is bad for you, but in moderation its nothing to be overly concerned about. is the same thing true for caffeine? can you be a regular coffee drinker and not worry about negative effects on your body?

You'd have to drink an obscenely high amount of coffee for it to be a serious health threat.

[lovetoaster]

You'd have to drink an obscenely high amount of coffee for it to be a serious health threat.

I would not go that far. Caffeine is a pretty bad thing for the body. I have had a few friends that did not drink coffee, but would drink a lot of diet cokes and stuff like that and red bull and vodka at when going out that have ended up at the hospital. Two friends thought they were having heart attacks when the doctor just told them they ingest too much caffeine. Everything else checked out perfectly, and they have cut down their caffeine and are fine.

[DarrellsMyHero28]

I would not go that far. Caffeine is a pretty bad thing for the body. I have had a few friends that did not drink coffee, but would drink a lot of diet cokes and stuff like that and red bull and vodka at when going out that have ended up at the hospital. Two friends thought they were having heart attacks when the doctor just told them they ingest too much caffeine. Everything else checked out perfectly, and they have cut down their caffeine and are fine.

Interesting.

I don't drink much but I know quite a few people who are coffee/tea/soda-aholics and have had zero health implications.

Even my mom, who has a very weak heart has asked her heart doc about caffeine and he basically said not to worry about it.

[Bang]

I too have never had it and don't really care if it's banned or taken off the market. But, if you do that, why do we sell cigarettes and grain alcohol and other things that have negative health impacts or are fine in moderation? Stickboi drinks the stuff and seems to have a handle on how to use it. The same could be said of someone who drinks 4 beers and calls it a night vs. polishing off a case of beer and passing out on the basement floor of a fraternity house.

I guess I just get sick of the "so-and-so went over the top and abused X so we're going to ban X even though the majority of people who eat/drink X are fine".

Well, if they marketed cigarettes and grain alcohol for kids they would. Society has always steppd in in areas like that.
Remember "smoking" candy cigarettes as a kid? Won't find those on any shelves anymore.

This looks to be marketed in a way that minimizes what it is towards people who are by nature very impulsive and generally too carefree to consider the potential dangers of a beverage designed to not let them feel the warning signs of alcohol poisoning.

I'm the last guy against a good party, and this doesn't seem to unreasonable to me

~Bang

[lovetoaster]

Interesting.

I don't drink much but I know quite a few people who are coffee/tea/soda-aholics and have had zero health implications.

Even my mom, who has a very weak heart has asked her heart doc about caffeine and he basically said not to worry about it.

I asked my doctor after something happened with one of my friends and he suggested that I cut down because too much can send you heart out of rhythm. At least that's what he told me. That was enough to get me to cut back.

One friend probably had six diet sodas over a 9-10 hour period went to the gym and was having what felt like shocks in his chest when he got home. Another had quite a bit of red bull and vodka one night then though he was having a heart attack on the way home. He had to pull over and call an ambulance. I don't know if it would have had any serious long term health effects, but I know it scared the hell out of them at the time.

[thebluefood]

If we're going to ban things just because they're bad for you, we might as well become a nation of vegans.

[Mickalino]

If we're going to ban things just because they're bad for you, we might as well become a nation of vegans.

No.

Ban the Vegetables.

They're full of pesticides.

[thebluefood]

No.

Ban the Vegetables.

They're full of pesticides.

Brilliant. Vegetables taste like ass. :D

[twa]

I would not go that far. Caffeine is a pretty bad thing for the body. I have had a few friends that did not drink coffee, but would drink a lot of diet cokes and stuff like that and red bull and vodka at when going out that have ended up at the hospital. Two friends thought they were having heart attacks when the doctor just told them they ingest too much caffeine. Everything else checked out perfectly, and they have cut down their caffeine and are fine.

Really depends on the individual,and I suspect other ingredients in these energy drinks
I drink massive amounts of caffeine drinks(and quite a bit of liquor) with no issues...course maybe all the nicotine regulates it somehow.

[RansomthePasserby]

I would not go that far. Caffeine is a pretty bad thing for the body. I have had a few friends that did not drink coffee, but would drink a lot of diet cokes and stuff like that and red bull and vodka at when going out that have ended up at the hospital. Two friends thought they were having heart attacks when the doctor just told them they ingest too much caffeine. Everything else checked out perfectly, and they have cut down their caffeine and are fine.

Yup, I've known people who thought they were having heart problems, but when they went to the doc he told them it was their caffiene intake. They cut back and haven't had heart issues since.

[Skin'Em84]

I'm not missing the point. It's a malt liquor that is 12 or 13% alcohol and has caffeine. The point, at least to me, is that you would be idiotic to drink this at all, let alone more than one of them. If you do, that's OK, but just don't act surprised when you're obliterated. It's no different than drinking a bunch of Red Bull/Vodkas or any other alcoholic drinks. Do it in moderation and switch over the beer or something.

I drink two when I want to get crazy. But I go in knowing that my life is going to suck tomorrow morning.

[Bang]

then get them to change the packaging and make them follow the same rules that beer advertisers do.

I'd more for that than an all out ban. Most likely some sort of compromise like this will be reached.

~Bang

[HailGreen28]

Brilliant. Vegetables taste like ass. :DAnd everybody who eats vegetables, eventually dies! What's up with that? We must ban all vegetables immediately!


:silly:

[adam@section118]

I have only had two four lokos, and the first one I chugged. Rookie mistake.

I also love red bull and vodka.

What drives me nuts is blaming the companies. Did they force they kids to drink?

I have done some dumb things while drinking energy drinks (remember when the energy drink "crack" was out for all of a week.) yet somehow I never seemed to blame the drink manufacturers for the stupid things I did (granted I did not do many, but there are nights I am glad my parents never found out about)

[TheMalcolmConnection]

I don't think the marketing is aimed directly at kids. What about wine coolers and equally "bright" colors and appealing packaging? It's all about getting people to pick up a can of it among a sea of brown and green bottles.

[Bang]

I don't think the marketing is aimed directly at kids. What about wine coolers and equally "bright" colors and appealing packaging? It's all about getting people to pick up a can of it among a sea of brown and green bottles.

Except wine coolers are called "Wine", and are not designed to keep you awake and drinking beyond the point of being safe. (They're designed to allow winemakers to sell their dregs :ols:)
Now, i'm all for allowing dopes who poison themselves to do so, but this product appears to suppress the body's natural warning signs of being poisoned.

That's the issue as i see it.

I remember being young and partying with my friends to all hours on pretty much any substance or drink I could grab. It didn't matter how F'd up we got,, the higher the better, the drunker the better,, as all young people I thought I was indestructible. I've got my horrible puke stories like anyone else.. but no hospital trips. Plenty of nights hugging the commode, but no hospital trips.

And reading the comments here by the 20-somethings who have tried this tells me a lot. Each of them who have had it seems to say "whoa.. this stuff will definitely lay you out"
Now if the age group that typically takes chances and loves to get ripped up is hedging on this stuff, I think that speaks volumes to what it's capable of doing to a person.

~Bang

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Except wine coolers are called "Wine", and are not designed to keep you awake and drinking beyond the point of being safe. (They're designed to allow winemakers to sell their dregs :ols:)
Now, i'm all for allowing dopes who poison themselves to do so, but this product appears to suppress the body's natural warning signs of being poisoned.

That's the issue as i see it.

I remember being young and partying with my friends to all hours on pretty much any substance or drink I could grab. It didn't matter how F'd up we got,, the higher the better, the drunker the better,, as all young people I thought I was indestructible. I've got my horrible puke stories like anyone else.. but no hospital trips. Plenty of nights hugging the commode, but no hospital trips.

And reading the comments here by the 20-somethings who have tried this tells me a lot. Each of them who have had it seems to say "whoa.. this stuff will definitely lay you out"
Now if the age group that typically takes chances and loves to get ripped up is hedging on this stuff, I think that speaks volumes to what it's capable of doing to a person.

~Bang

I haven't read all the thread, so maybe I'm commenting on something that I'm misunderstanding. Are you saying they're marketing these to kids (as in the underage type?)? If so, then I stand by my post, but if you mean twenty-somethings then I agree.

[Bang]

I haven't read all the thread, so maybe I'm commenting on something that I'm misunderstanding. Are you saying they're marketing these to kids (as in the underage type?)? If so, then I stand by my post, but if you mean twenty-somethings then I agree.

No, they aren't marketing directly to underage, they'd be shut down immediately.. the product itself doesn't seem to me to be terribly safe based in it's design and what it's intended to do.
They are marketing it so it doesn't taste like alcohol, and looks like a drink that is probably not as potent as it is, and that could appeal to the underage drinkers who's pallettes are not yet accustomed to whiskey or rum or what have you. I don't think I've ever seen a child who liked the taste of beer.. it tends to be an acquired taste.

I've got less problem with their packaging than i do with the drink itself.. young people will drink, no doubt. And underage kids will drink, no doubt. I think it's irresposnsible to market a product as potent as this in a manner that would encourage not just over-indulgence, but WAY over indulging while the natural warning signs are being suppressed by the drink itself to the point of it being dangerous enough to send people to the hospital.

~Bang

[Destino]

Yep, blame the beverage and not the kids who choose to drink it.
The investigation wasn't looking into personal responsibility, it was looking to see if someone drugged students at a party. It concluded that the reason they hit the deck was this drink and nothing some sinister rapist style plot. Not sure what the problem is here... Also if you google it you'll see the FDA and several states have been having issues with new drinks mixing large amounts of caffeine and alcohol. Clearly people need to be careful about what they consume but the purpose of the investigation was to find cause and the safety of the product has been questioned nationally.

[Bang]

So today I was making some chocolate chip cookies, and I broke a light bulb. All the glass fell in the mix, so I just kept stirring til it was ground up real fine.
Adds a bit of a crunch to the cookies, I think.

Sounds like a great marketing idea. This way, I never have to waste any broken glass again! It's eco-friendly!

And if anyone is stupid enough to eat them and die, welll, that's on them.

~Bang

[Destino]

What drives me nuts is blaming the companies. Did they force they kids to drink?
Can you, or anyone, tell me how much caffeine there is in a four loko by volume? I've searched and come up empty. Anytime people blame consumers I immediately look to see if consumers have access to information.

[Bang]

I agree,, if a company could package up crack as bubble gum and sell it in wal Mart, there would be so many of them lining up to do it your head would spin.
And they'd all do their best to package it in the most non-threatening appealing manner they could.

~Bang

[#98QBKiller]

Sounds like media fear mongering to me. Alcoholic beverages w/ caffeine have been around for a while now....Sparks, Red Bull + Vodka or Red Bull + Jager. Those drinks were very popular when I was in college a few years ago and still are.

Let's not pretend that the company that makes the drink is holding meetings on how to sabotage college kids. It's not the manufacturer's fault that the kids are getting blackout drunk. Like others have said, it all comes down to personal responsibility.

Also, how is a 24oz can that's 12% ABV equal to a six pack? Are they comparing it to the 55 calorie Budweiser or what? A six pack of regular beer is on average, 5% ABV. 6 bottles would be 72oz. Two beers at 12% ABV isn't as much alcohol as 6 beers at 5% ABV.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

So today I was making some chocolate chip cookies, and I broke a light bulb. All the glass fell in the mix, so I just kept stirring til it was ground up real fine.
Adds a bit of a crunch to the cookies, I think.

Sounds like a great marketing idea. This way, I never have to waste any broken glass again! It's eco-friendly!

And if anyone is stupid enough to eat them and die, welll, that's on them.

~Bang

If you called it "Broken Glass in Chocolate Chip Cookies" on the label, then I'd mock anyone who ate it. However, if you sold them strictly as cookies, I'd see your point!

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Can you, or anyone, tell me how much caffeine there is in a four loko by volume? I've searched and come up empty. Anytime people blame consumers I immediately look to see if consumers have access to information.

I'm not sure...I'm still sifting through all the "drink responsibly" propaganda on their site. That's after I had to enter my birth date just to enter the site. So, I don't believe this is a case of a company marketing to young people or taking the use of their product lightly. I would assume (maybe it's ignorant) that their can has to show the ingredients, right?

[Destino]

I would assume (maybe it's ignorant) that their can has to show the ingredients, right?
Not as far as I can tell. Found this from a college newspaper written this month:

http://www.theonlinecurrent.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=267:four-loko-are-you-crazy-4-loko&catid=57:all-news&Itemid=109

Just one 23.5-oz. can packs quite a punch. At 12 percent alcohol by volume, finishing one Four Loko is comparable to drinking three Natural Light tall boys, with one notable exception; Natural Light tall boys are completely free of caffeine and other potent ingredients. Four Loko throws in generous helpings of caffeine, taurine and guarana. How much is a generous helping?

Nobody knows. But the Food and Drug Administration wants to find out.

That’s why, last November, the FDA sent a letter to 27 companies, all of which produce and market alcoholic energy drinks, informing them the FDA planned to investigate the safety of their products. The investigation stems from two letters sent to the FDA: one from a group of scientists and the other from the attorneys general of Connecticut, Utah and Guam. All three are co-chairs of the National Association of Attorneys General Youth Access to Alcohol Committee. “The [Department of Business and Professional Regulation] does register Four Loko energy drinks for sale in the state of Florida,” said Alexis Lambert, an official with the division of alcoholic beverages and tobacco. The DBPR had no comment on the health concerns or possible illegality of the product.

By FDA standards, alcoholic energy drinks are foods with additives, and any food additive not “generally recognized as safe” (or GRAS) must obtain pre-market approval. Caffeine, up to a level of .02 percent, is GRAS in soda and similar beverages. But Four Loko is hardly a soda, and anybody who has ever tried one can attest to its higher-than-.02 percent caffeine content. Therefore, it will need pre-market approval to prove the drink is safe for consumption.

But is it safe? Logic says combining two mind-altering drugs, no matter how widely used they may be in society, is a bad idea. Available research on the topic confirms this. A recent Wake Forest study (O’Brien et al, 2008) found that consumption of alcohol mixed with energy drinks (AmED) was associated with “increased heavy episodic drinking and twice as many episodes of weekly drunkenness.” The study found that almost a quarter of students who had consumed alcohol in the past month had also consumed AmED.

The unique problem caused by drinking AmED is due to the stimulating effects of the caffeine, which make drinkers feel less drunk than they actually are. This, the attorneys general and FDA argue, leads people to drink more than they normally would, sometimes to dangerous levels.

Four Loko is special, though. The undisclosed amount of caffeine will keep you drinking and socializing further into the night, but it’s another ingredient that’s responsible for the drink’s signature effect: wormwood.

Better known as the main active ingredient in absinthe, wormwood was used as far back as ancient Egypt for medicinal purposes, but rose to popularity in 18th century France when absinthe was invented. Absinthe is currently illegal in the United States.

According to WebMD, “wormwood oil contains the chemical thujone, which excites the central nervous system.” This explains the “body buzz” one may feel after drinking a Four Loko.

But thujone isn’t all fun and games. WebMD contends that “thujone is a potentially poisonous chemical found in wormwood. Distilling wormwood in alcohol increases the thujone concentration.”

So is there actually thujone in Four Loko? Again, logic would dictate that if the drink has wormwood , and wormwood contains thujone, then there’s probably some thujone in Four Loko. That claim, however, cannot be confirmed because an official ingredients list has yet to be released.


With so many undisclosed quantities I can see why people are taking a closer look. As a consumer there is no way in hell I'd drink something that couldn't be bothered to tell me what was in it. I'll stick to whiskey. :)

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Not as far as I can tell. Found this from a college newspaper written this month:

http://www.theonlinecurrent.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=267:four-loko-are-you-crazy-4-loko&catid=57:all-news&Itemid=109

Oh OK...well I can certainly understand forcing them to disclose that type of information.

With so many undisclosed quantities I can see why people are taking a closer look. As a consumer there is no way in hell I'd drink something that couldn't be bothered to tell me what was in it. I'll stick to whiskey. :)

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Not as far as I can tell. Found this from a college newspaper written this month:

http://www.theonlinecurrent.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=267:four-loko-are-you-crazy-4-loko&catid=57:all-news&Itemid=109


With so many undisclosed quantities I can see why people are taking a closer look. As a consumer there is no way in hell I'd drink something that couldn't be bothered to tell me what was in it. I'll stick to whiskey. :)

Oh OK...well I can certainly understand forcing them to disclose that type of information.

[Skinz4Life12]

i saw a bottle of absinthe in the abc store maybe a month or two ago. maybe its a watered down version of the real **** but you can definately buy it in the states

[#98QBKiller]

i saw a bottle of absinthe in the abc store maybe a month or two ago. maybe its a watered down version of the real **** but you can definately buy it in the states

They can probably sell it without the wormwood.

[Sticksboi05]

Sounds like media fear mongering to me. Alcoholic beverages w/ caffeine have been around for a while now....Sparks, Red Bull + Vodka or Red Bull + Jager. Those drinks were very popular when I was in college a few years ago and still are.

Let's not pretend that the company that makes the drink is holding meetings on how to sabotage college kids. It's not the manufacturer's fault that the kids are getting blackout drunk. Like others have said, it all comes down to personal responsibility.

Also, how is a 24oz can that's 12% ABV equal to a six pack? Are they comparing it to the 55 calorie Budweiser or what? A six pack of regular beer is on average, 5% ABV. 6 bottles would be 72oz. Two beers at 12% ABV isn't as much alcohol as 6 beers at 5% ABV.

It's also the stimulants in there. It has guara and taurine etc.

[DarrellsMyHero28]

i saw a bottle of absinthe in the abc store maybe a month or two ago. maybe its a watered down version of the real **** but you can definately buy it in the states

:ols:

It doesn't have wormwood in it.

[mcsluggo]

you know what?
if my 13 year old daughter comes home drunk from a friend's birthday party... she is going to be in a world of trouble.

you know what else?
I am still going to have enough scorn to share some with the parents of the birthday girl.


same story here. THe product is specifically designed to be marketed to kids. Brazenly. they deserve criticizm.
responsibility isn't a zero sum game. Just because one participant in a clusterf**k can rightly be scolded.. doen't mean that every one else wins the lottery.

[Skinz4Life12]

:ols:

It doesn't have wormwood in it.

thats why i said it may be watered down

[PF Chang]

Well, I'm going to keep drinking it. Not going to drink 8 of them though. Not going to go take 20 shots either. I realize that the stimulants keep you drinking more, but as people have pointed out, Red Bull/vodka is similar. My roommate would take triple shots of Jager and then chug red bull in college, but he wasn't blaming anyone when he was bowing to the porcelain god the next morning. Personal responsibility.

This stuff has a noticeable alcohol aftertaste and says 12% on the can. You'd have to be pretty dumb to not realize that what you're drinking is reasonably potent. Isn't this why we have to wait until we're ****ing 21 to purchase it? As far as underage drinking goes, well, I'm not sure anything is going to stop some underagers from drinking way too much. Banning Four Loko and taking it away from me because your stupid kid drank 5 of them doesn't resonate well with me. We should ban the rum that I like too. I might have missed something in the thread but I don't see how it's being marketed to kids any more than other alcohol is. It's colorful...really??

I dunno. I'm sick of things being banned or illegal because some people can't use them reasonably. And maybe I am coming off as "me, me, me!!" but I really doubt I'm the only one who is sick of a stupid minority ruining things for an exasperated majority.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

you know what?
if my 13 year old daughter comes home drunk from a friend's birthday party... she is going to be in a world of trouble.

you know what else?
I am still going to have enough scorn to share some with the parents of the birthday girl.


same story here. THe product is specifically designed to be marketed to kids. Brazenly. they deserve criticizm.
responsibility isn't a zero sum game. Just because one participant in a clusterf**k can rightly be scolded.. doen't mean that every one else wins the lottery.

But would you blame the company that produces Zima or whatever your 13-year old daughter was served?

I get blaming the kids who drank it and the hosts who served it to younger kids. But I guess I still don't get why a company who labels its product as alcoholic has any additional responsibility. Again, go to their web site and try to ignore that this is for adults only...it's impossible.

[#98QBKiller]

It's also the stimulants in there. It has guara and taurine etc.

So does Red Bull.

[Sticksboi05]

So does Red Bull.

Not guarana, just taurine.

[PF Chang]

I am admittedly interested in learning more about the effects of whatever is in four loko on the heart when combined with alcohol. So far, though, seems like these articles are more about people drinking too much. I can't say it's very interesting to read the same old story about someone going a little too far and getting alcohol poisoning.

[MikeInJc aka M.I.A.]

I've drank this stuff before and didn't have a problem with it. Kids are such *****'s now days.

[twa]

same story here. THe product is specifically designed to be marketed to kids. Brazenly. they deserve criticizm.
responsibility isn't a zero sum game. Just because one participant in a clusterf**k can rightly be scolded.. doen't mean that every one else wins the lottery.

Is it marketed to kids or simply young adults(read as idiots)?

Perhaps we need to raise the drinking age again?....50 works for me.:):)

[Destino]

According to http://www.energyfiend.com/the-caffeine-database
Redbull has 9.5 milligrams of caffeine per ounce.
Starbucks coffee has 20.6 mg/oz

I'd love to know how much caffeine "four loko" has in it.

[mcsluggo]

Is it marketed to kids or simply young adults(read as idiots)?

Perhaps we need to raise the drinking age again?....50 works for me.:):)

i want to lower the drinking age to 14.

and RAISE the driving age to 25!

[ZoEd]

I don't think that was the point of the article.
I don't see anywhere that anyone is saying that they didn't make a mistake. They drank too much of this stuff, and it sent them to the hospital, and the University wants to raise awareness around the campus of what these drinks can do.

Sounds to me as if the university is being responsible in this matter and making a push to send a message, not ban any drinks or parties. And by their doing so, maybe some of their students will know better and be a little more informed about these drinks.

~Bang

I can speak from experience because I see it with my AF students all the time, you make them aware and they go out and find it. We had to make our students "aware' of herbal alternatives, AKA spice, mojo, k2, k3 and several others. We were given a breifing to give them, to summarize "hey, this stuff is man made THC so there's no way of knowing what you're injesting, there's no test for it but if you get busted smoking it you'll get kicked out". They couldn't get out the gate fast enough to get their hands on the stuff.

So, the college is going to tell the kids how potent it is and how messed up you can get off of it and it's going to deter them? Hells no, they'll be buying it by the case. Especially because the "man" tells them it's bad.

[adam@section118]

Can you, or anyone, tell me how much caffeine there is in a four loko by volume? I've searched and come up empty. Anytime people blame consumers I immediately look to see if consumers have access to information.

I do not know the exact number, but I do know it out out there. (To be fair I heard/saw it via a special I watched on energy drinks and how they have become the drink of choice for the younger generation)

I am not sure I get your point.

Sure it has a lot (and trust me, A LOT) of caffeine in it. However, I managed to have one while drinking liquor, and I was fine. I have friends that went out and bought everyone they could when the FDA tried to ban them in FL, and they have never had any problems.

I do not think we should simply absolve companies of any responsibility, but I also just graduated college and like Bang has said (I apoloigze but at the time of this post I have only read 4 pages of this thread) young people will drink.

Maybe they need to put a health warning that says "Hey, dummy, drinking alcohol is bad and drinking one of these is equivelant to drinking 10 cups of coffee or 17 cokes"

Honest question, though. And while I do not post often I do not want this to come off as a smart-ass question: Would that warning stop any kids from going nuts with the drink?

I honestly do not think so, but if it saves just one life I guess it is worth it.

Sorry for rambling

EDIT: I just called a friend and asked her as we had watched the special together. Four Loko had not at the time of the special disclosed how much caffeine was in one bottle. To the best of my knoweldge, this has not changed. I would say double or tripple that of a Red Bull just guessing, but that is a 10) percent pulled out of my rear end guess

[Bang]

I can speak from experience because I see it with my AF students all the time, you make them aware and they go out and find it. We had to make our students "aware' of herbal alternatives, AKA spice, mojo, k2, k3 and several others. We were given a breifing to give them, to summarize "hey, this stuff is man made THC so there's no way of knowing what you're injesting, there's no test for it but if you get busted smoking it you'll get kicked out". They couldn't get out the gate fast enough to get their hands on the stuff.

So, the college is going to tell the kids how potent it is and how messed up you can get off of it and it's going to deter them? Hells no, they'll be buying it by the case. Especially because the "man" tells them it's bad.

Well, there is that, but you can't really ignore it either, right?


BTW, my guess is you're on Keesler?
I was back in the old days.. studied ECM there.
I'm guessing it's much different now, even before the hurricane.. I used to frequent a bar just off the gate called the Sundance that had about 40 pool tables and $2.50 pitchers.. saw the Redskins win SB 17 in there and am amazed I didn't get my head kicked in by all the Dolphins fans . i was rather obnoxious.

~Bang

[ZoEd]

Well, there is that, but you can't really ignore it either, right?


BTW, my guess is you're on Keesler?
I was back in the old days.. studied ecm there.

~Bang

Down the road on the Seabee base, we have a Tri-service school house with the Army and Navy. We train Seabee builders, Army engineers and Air Force Structures Airmen for Civil Engineering. I'm the Shirt for the Air Force detachment

Spice is HUGE down here, they recently banned here and NOLA but supposedly the producers of it have found a way around it in NOLA. I say legalize the stuff made by God and you don't have to worry about a bunch of kids ingesting a bunch of chemicals to get their rocks off.

[Mooka]

This story is really no different than any other "underage kids drinking too much in college" story all throughout the US except for the fact that there's a slight angle to blame someone else. There is that angle, but it seems a bit went into the build up of this situation. There is more to this story: Central Wash. U: Some overdose party-goers may be suspended (http://www.seattlepi.com/local/428201_cwu10.html)

So timeline (that I made up):

- Police find passed out girl in some parking lot. Find out where she came from.
- Police bust party and find people passed out. Looks worse then a typical party. They suspect people have been drugged.
- Heads start to roll. People start to get outraged. Headlines say Date Rape. Someones in serious trouble.

...

- The dust clears, no one was drugged, they were all just completely trashed.
- Someone has to be to be the bad guy here. (Four Lokos)

[Mickalino]

What's ****ed up about these drinks is they DO NOT have the typical ingredient/nutritional information on the can, like EVERY OTHER food or drink that is sold, with the exception of alcohol. But I guess, because of the fact that the drink is alcoholic, they're not required to put the nutritional info of all the ingredients ?? Why are alcoholic drinks exempt from that ? THAT, plus the fact that this drink needs extra warnings due to its potency, which are not part of the package, DOES warrant some responsibility on the part of the manufacturer.

[Sticksboi05]

Mick - it says on the can that it has alcohol, guarana and taurine...

[[[ghost]]]

They're huge around my way, and they can really **** you up.

I had two gulps of one once, and I can safely say those will be my last two gulps.

[Destino]

I do not know the exact number, but I do know it out out there. (To be fair I heard/saw it via a special I watched on energy drinks and how they have become the drink of choice for the younger generation)

I am not sure I get your point.
My point is that consumers in the US "assume" things legally sold in the US are safe. We do after all spend a lot of money funding the FDA to ensure exactly that. When a company sells a drink without telling anyone how much of ingredients so central to the drink that they MARKET the fact the drink contains them that should send up red flags. The amounts of caffeine and these other ingredients are needed to discern how safe consumption is.

For example, if this drink is stronger than starbucks coffee (which is stronger than redbull in terms of caffeine per ounce) than someone that isn't a coffee drinker and doesn't typically consume caffeine is going to have one hell of a ride at 12% alcohol by volume.

People have compared it to a redbull and vodka but that drink is 50/50 RB to vodka in a cup full of ice typically. 9.6 milligrams per ounce and I'm thinking no more than 10 ounces of fluid in a 16 ounce cup full of ice. That's 5 ounces of redbull or 48 milligrams of caffeine, or put in an easily understood fashion... less than 1/5th the caffeine in a tall starbucks coffee.

So I'd like to know where Four Loko stands. If it's like Cocaine Energy Drink which was 33.3 mg/oz and the thing is 23.5 oz at 12% alcohol by volume what you are drinking is the equivalent of: 5.5 miller lite's in terms of alcohol. 2.3 grande coffee from starbucks (think big gulp of coffee).

Point is simple the effects of the drink on the individual would vary wildly depending on their tolerance for caffeine and alcohol. It be nice if they told people how much caffeine was in it because drinking so they can decide if they can handle it.

[Mickalino]

Mick - it says on the can that it has alcohol, guarana and taurine...

I don't think that's a complete listing, though.

[royallypwned]

****, I drink these all the time. If it weren't so cheap, I'd stop. :ols:

[PF Chang]

My point is that consumers in the US "assume" things legally sold in the US are safe. We do after all spend a lot of money funding the FDA to ensure exactly that. When a company sells a drink without telling anyone how much of ingredients so central to the drink that they MARKET the fact the drink contains them that should send up red flags. The amounts of caffeine and these other ingredients are needed to discern how safe consumption is.

For example, if this drink is stronger than starbucks coffee (which is stronger than redbull in terms of caffeine per ounce) than someone that isn't a coffee drinker and doesn't typically consume caffeine is going to have one hell of a ride at 12% alcohol by volume.

People have compared it to a redbull and vodka but that drink is 50/50 RB to vodka in a cup full of ice typically. 9.6 milligrams per ounce and I'm thinking no more than 10 ounces of fluid in a 16 ounce cup full of ice. That's 5 ounces of redbull or 48 milligrams of caffeine, or put in an easily understood fashion... less than 1/5th the caffeine in a tall starbucks coffee.

So I'd like to know where Four Loko stands. If it's like Cocaine Energy Drink which was 33.3 mg/oz and the thing is 23.5 oz at 12% alcohol by volume what you are drinking is the equivalent of: 5.5 miller lite's in terms of alcohol. 2.3 grande coffee from starbucks (think big gulp of coffee).

Point is simple the effects of the drink on the individual would vary wildly depending on their tolerance for caffeine and alcohol. It be nice if they told people how much caffeine was in it because drinking so they can decide if they can handle it.

this is a good, fair post. Not adding much to the discussion here, but well said.

[Mickalino]

****, I drink these all the time. If it weren't so cheap, I'd stop. :ols:

You better go get a complete physical from your doctor

[RaspberryRumble]

These are still pretty big around JMU. I think girls drink them much more than guys though. A lot of girls like to pre-game with one of these before going out for the night. Everybody knows that they will get you real drunk, but that's what people are looking for a lot of the time.

[rictus58]

With all the caffeine in these drinks....do they give you horrible runs?

[Mickalino]

I think girls drink them much more than guys though. A lot of girls like to pre-game with one of these before going out for the night.

Is it almost like a date rape ?

[Homercles82]

There's plenty of young people in the world that have no clue how awful it is to drink alcohol with energy drinks.

I think you underestimate what teens and young adults know about these drinks.

[DarrellsMyHero28]

I think you underestimate what teens and young adults know about these drinks.

Uh, nope.

Look at my age and location.

I'm a college student, in a college town and I know plenty of people (here and at UVA/JMU/VCU/W&M etc) that pound down these drinks and have no clue how terrible they are for you.

[twa]

Point is simple the effects of the drink on the individual would vary wildly depending on their tolerance for caffeine and alcohol. It be nice if they told people how much caffeine was in it because drinking so they can decide if they can handle it.

Might help, might not...couldn't hurt

http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/health/man-dies-of-caffeine-overdose-ncxdc-102910

Michael Lee Bedford, 23, from Mansfield, central England, was at a party in April when he swallowed caffeine powder that a friend bought online for £3.29 ($5.26), Nottingham Coroner’s Court heard Thursday.

He washed the powder down with an energy drink, and around 15 minutes later began sweating and vomiting blood. He later died at King’s Mill Hospital in Nottinghamshire, central England, the Nottingham Post reported.

The court heard that Bedford ignored the product's recommendation to take no more than one sixteenth of a teaspoon and instead took two spoonfuls of the powder -- ingesting a level of caffeine 70 times more than is usually found in a high-energy drink.

Speaking outside the court, Bedford’s aunt Sue Burton said, "I think there should be a warning on it saying it can kill."

[RichmondRedskin88]

I have only had two four lokos, and the first one I chugged. Rookie mistake.

I also love red bull and vodka.

What drives me nuts is blaming the companies. Did they force they kids to drink?

I have done some dumb things while drinking energy drinks (remember when the energy drink "crack" was out for all of a week.) yet somehow I never seemed to blame the drink manufacturers for the stupid things I did (granted I did not do many, but there are nights I am glad my parents never found out about)

Yeah you can't down those things fast. Doesn't matter who you are it will get you. I also don't understand they at first put all the blame on the companies. The kids drank it. If they hadn't been downing them they would have realized they were over their head. On another note its a good thing parents don't find out about stupid things cuz then it will probably prompt them to talk about their stupid moments.

[Backpack3r]

Vodka red bull owns that ****

[SkinsBry]

Yeah you can't down those things fast. Doesn't matter who you are it will get you.

Challenge accepted.

[RichmondRedskin88]

Challenge accepted.

Have fun with that. Funny to the people saying I accept this challenge and I could totally drain that ****

Big whoop. Since when did parties have to revolve around a challenge and passing the hell out?

If I wanted to knock myself out I could go get a couple of these and some 151. I don't need a party to get so wasted I pass out.

Its sad that a 37 yr old is saying this too. Sounds like a frat boy getting all offended when a guy calls him a light weight so he tells him to get him the foulest drinks he can find to prove himself and ends up face down out cold on the floor from the drinks

[SkinsBry]

Have fun with that. Funny to the people saying I accept this challenge and I could totally drain that ****

Big whoop. Since when did parties have to revolve around a challenge and passing the hell out?

If I wanted to knock myself out I could go get a couple of these and some 151. I don't need a party to get so wasted I pass out.

Its sad that a 37 yr old is saying this too. Sounds like a frat boy getting all offended when a guy calls him a light weight so he tells him to get him the foulest drinks he can find to prove himself and ends up face down out cold on the floor from the drinks

Sounds like someone is still mad that she got drawn on with magic marker when she passed out once.

[Park City Skins]

I remember back a few hundred years ago when I was a bartender in my 20's,we'd have a drink after skiing or dinner called a "Hot Tub." Coffee,Baileys,and Hennesy I think. That was nothing like this stuff. Makes my heart have palpitations thinking about it. No thanks.

[RichmondRedskin88]

Sounds like someone is still mad that she got drawn on with magic marker when she passed out once.

Sounds like someone shouldn't drink Black out in a can cuz they can't tell the difference between a woman and man sober.

[rdsknbill]

. On another note its a good thing parents don't find out about stupid things cuz then it will probably prompt them to talk about their stupid moments.


WOW! That has to be one of the stupidest things I have heard. SO what you are saying is that, if I have a talk with my nineteen year old college student son about some poor decisions that I made at around his age, it is "stupid"? Do us all a favor, don't EVER have children. :jerk:

[rdsknbill]

sounds like someone is still mad that she got drawn on with magic marker when she passed out once.

found him!http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:VW2MDXUY0rF_yM:http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn231/DTea5553/WeenieRoast.jpg&t=1

Oh and I think the "She" was intentional Einstein!

[RichmondRedskin88]

WOW! That has to be one of the stupidest things I have heard. SO what you are saying is that, if I have a talk with my nineteen year old college student son about some poor decisions that I made at around his age, it is "stupid"? Do us all a favor, don't EVER have children. :jerk:

Nope you read it differently then intended. I'm saying I know kids who have done stupid things and their parents told them about their stupid moments as though their just sharing some great stories. The parents don't pay attention to the kid screwing up. In fact I know a few whose parents go out with their kid to do stupid crap so thats just encouraging. If a parent wants to prevent their kid from doing something stupid they should tell them the story and then make sure to get the point across how stupid it was. Got it now?

Also I didn't say talking with the kid was stupid I said talking about "stupid moments"

But then again you had to jump on my back and act like a ass in my posts after.

[skinsfan07]

Love me some Four Loko's!

We get loko'd almost every weekend! Sure gets the job done quick! Drink one before you go to the club, and you're buzzin all night, drink 2, and you might not make it the whole night! FADED!

[RaspberryRumble]

Is it almost like a date rape ?

No, if girls are going to a party where they know it will likely be crowded and hard to get a beer a lot of them will drink a four loko before they go just so they won't have to worry about drinking a lot there. I wouldn't associate this with any kind of date rape drug. It's not like the people don't know what they're doing. The people that have problems drinking too much beer in a night are the same ones that have problem drinking too much four loko in a night. Some people just don't know when to call it quits...regardless of what they happen to be drinking

[rdsknbill]

Challenge failed. It tastes like dodo.

TheBry

[Mickalino]

Love me some Four Loko's!

We get loko'd almost every weekend! Sure gets the job done quick! Drink one before you go to the club, and you're buzzin all night,

Really ? It lasts that long ?

I don't know of any energy drink, or 5 hour energy shot, or any combination of alcoholic drinks that will actually keep you buzzin more than 2 or 3 hours without you passin out or sobering up before that time is up.

[RichmondRedskin88]

No, if girls are going to a party where they know it will likely be crowded and hard to get a beer a lot of them will drink a four loko before they go just so they won't have to worry about drinking a lot there. I wouldn't associate this with any kind of date rape drug. It's not like the people don't know what they're doing. The people that have problems drinking too much beer in a night are the same ones that have problem drinking too much four loko in a night. Some people just don't know when to call it quits...regardless of what they happen to be drinking

I mean rape could still occur as result of the drink. A girl who willingly took the drink before going to party so that she doesn't have find a beer is responsible for her acts though. Shes basically drugging herself. If she thinks theres a chance someone might take advantage of her because she can't handle the drink its better to leave the four loko alone. I definitely agree some people just don't know when to stop. Thats when bad things happen.

[Destino]

I haven't had this stuff but it sound like Mad Dog 20/20 plus random energy drink crap.

I'll stick to my Crown and Coke.

[Mickalino]

This is a very interesting article on the subject with some facts that may surprise many of you.

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/a-ban-on-caffeinated-alcohol-drinks-won%E2%80%99t-work

[rdsknbill]

Also I didn't say talking with the kid was stupid I said talking about "stupid moments"

But then again you had to jump on my back and act like a ass in my posts after.

Again, Please don't breed. You are one of those 22 year old "worldly" friggin geniuses that loves to impart his wisdom on us old dumb guys. Thing is at this point? We know more about the REAL world than you will ever know. So just shut it! And yea, you probably have put yourself in that "picture situation"

[10fttall]

It's all about the learning curve. These drinks tend to have a lot higher alcohol than normal beer, but then again so do mixed drinks, or liquor on the rocks. Pepole may be surprised to find how drunk they are getting from a seemingly smaller amount of product, but that would be the FIRST time. And people's first time with any alcohol is going to be dicey. Nobody doing shots for the first time knows what's about to hit them. Basically, it's not the caffeine at all. It's just people too stupid to read the can, or people that choose to do it anyway. This is no different than any unsupervised party type young kids alcohol consumption. Kids will always do stupid things with alcohol, this is nothing new.

[rdsknbill]

I mean rape could still occur as result of the drink. .

Well no we all know who was cruising the college Halloween parties this weekend

[RichmondRedskin88]

Well no we all know who was cruising the college Halloween parties this weekend

Wow that is not even the slightest bit funny. Your 44 and you start cracking jokes about rape?:doh:

And also what the hell are you talking about "young worldly genius" crap?

Sounds like to me you have just resigned to jumping on my back. In fact I bet you haven't read a single post of mine since my first post that you twisted around in your sick mind into rape/marker jokes. I'm not sure your in thar real world you keep saying you know everything about.

[rdsknbill]

WOW! you're 22 and said "rape could still occur" and went on to basically say that it would be the girl's fault. Should I quote it? I think it is on this page, or maybe the previous.

In your "sick mind" it is no big deal? right? :stfu: PLEASE

[RichmondRedskin88]

WOW! you're 22 and said "rape could still occur" and went on to basically say that it would be the girl's fault. Should I quote it? I think it is on this page, or maybe the previous.

In your "sick mind" it is no big deal? right? :stfu: PLEASE

Once again you twist my words. Can you read dude? I said rape still occur as result of the drink. I also said the girl needs to realize the risk of rape before she starts downing the drink. Stop trying to act like I said the girl deserves to be raped because she passed out. I clearly said she needs to realize the risk. Also yes a person is responsible for their own actions. No one is forcing the drink down her throat. Also the rapist is responsible for their actions as well which would hopefully mean being locked away for a DAMN long time.

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

Maybe you guys could have a 4 Lokos summit and talk this out?

[RichmondRedskin88]

Maybe you guys could have a 4 Lokos summit and talk this out?

I don't normally get worked up like this but I hate my words being twisted. Plus I don't normally clash with anyone on here too much. I ain't gonna start stinking to the level of rapist jokes though. I'll just let him think what he wants.

side note: My Caps and your Hawks are doing pretty well so far.:)

[rdsknbill]

Once again you twist my words. Can you read dude? I said rape still occur as result of the drink. I also said the girl needs to realize the risk of rape before she starts downing the drink. Stop trying to act like I said the girl deserves to be raped because she passed out. I clearly said she needs to realize the risk. Also yes a person is responsible for their own actions. No one is forcing the drink down her throat. Also the rapist is responsible for their actions as well which would hopefully mean being locked away for a DAMN long time.

And once again, you failed to engage your mind before putting your mouth in gear. How many daughters do you have? I have 2. I didn't twist your ****ing words you said what you said

Do me a favor, don't bring age into it like you have shown is your style with me and other posters. I've been married longer than you have been on the planet.

[RichmondRedskin88]

And once again, you failed to engage your mind before putting your mouth in gear. How many daughters do you have? I have 2. I didn't twist your ****ing words you said what you said

Do me a favor, don't bring age into it like you have shown is your style with me and other posters.

LOL I never use my age in my posts minus the ones about VCU college life. If people need my age they can look under my avatar. But whatever man its clear your just looking for a discussion board fight. I ain't gonna give you that. I thought your posts on extremeskins were pretty good but you showed your true colors. Like I said though I'm done arguing with you.

for note- I'm a junior CRJS major at VCU. I'm dedicated to stopping **** like rape so consider that before you make rape jokes at me. I study rape cases everyday so before you make one more rape crack think about that. I have no patience for it.

[rdsknbill]

Really ? Your 44 and you start cracking jokes about rape? Its sad that a 37 yr old is saying this too

Sure you didn't

Oh and BTW, I don't care where you go to college or what you are studying. It still doesn't change the fact That you buried your foot knee deep down your throat. The sad thing is that you have ZERO remorse and have made no attempt at a retraction. GFY

[RichmondRedskin88]

Really ? Your 44 and you start cracking jokes about rape? Its sad that a 37 yr old is saying this too

Sure you didn't

Oh and BTW, I don't care where you go to college or what you are studying. It still doesn't change the fact That you buried your foot knee deep down your throat. The sad thing is that you have ZERO remorse and have made no attempt at a retraction. GFY

Retraction for what? Saying people are responsible for their actions? Saying a girl needs to consider the risk of something bad potentially happening before taking a drink that she might pass out from? Saying that a parent who tells their kids their stories and not telling them its wrong is a stupid thing to do? Saying that everyone is responsible for their actions? Tell me what part of that is incorrect?

I spend everyday studying cases and countless articles about murders, rape, etc and many of those are situations just like this. Someone not considering the risks of their actions. Everyone has done something stupid in their lives but its the things you do where you know your taking a major risk is when really bad things happen.

The only argument you have brought to the table is that I'm apparently some stupid 22 yr old with no idea about the real world. That and the random posts changing my wording to make me sound like a heartless jerk.

[Park City Skins]

Bill. Richmond. Enough already. Take it to pm. Yeeesh.

[polywog999]

Retraction for what? Saying people are responsible for their actions? Saying a girl needs to consider the risk of something bad potentially happening before taking a drink that she might pass out from? Saying that a parent who tells their kids their stories and not telling them its wrong is a stupid thing to do? Saying that everyone is responsible for their actions? Tell me what part of that is incorrect?

I spend everyday studying cases and countless articles about murders, rape, etc and many of those are situations just like this. Someone not considering the risks of their actions. Everyone has done something stupid in their lives but its the things you do where you know your taking a major risk is when really bad things happen.
.

I agree completely. Like a car accident, there are usually multiple responsibilities. No one likes to admit it, though.

[Special K]

The way I see it, this whole issue isn't about pinning the blame solely on a company completely absolving these kids of irresponsible drinking...or "college" as many of us like to call it :)

The problem here is the non-specifics regarding the ingredients of this drink and questionable marketing and those need to be investigated. I've never had this drink and it doesn't sound appealing in the least, but clearly this drink can mess people up more than your average rum and coke, or red bull and vodka. The drink was designing specifically for this purpose and it, and other energy alcohol drinks, definitely need to be looked into and possibly more strictly regulated or even banned.

And for the people in this thread who think the public, or college students, are well informed about the dangers of these types of drinks...I would very much disagree with that assertion. In fact, I would say that a large majority of the public don't fully understand the health dangers of adding stimulants to alcohol.

[Sticksboi05]

The way I see it, this whole issue isn't about pinning the blame solely on a company completely absolving these kids of irresponsible drinking...or "college" as many of us like to call it :)

The problem here is the non-specifics regarding the ingredients of this drink and questionable marketing and those need to be investigated. I've never had this drink and it doesn't sound appealing in the least, but clearly this drink can mess people up more than your average rum and coke, or red bull and vodka. The drink was designing specifically for this purpose and it, and other energy alcohol drinks, definitely need to be looked into and possibly more strictly regulated or even banned.

And for the people in this thread who think the public, or college students, are well informed about the dangers of these types of drinks...I would very much disagree with that assertion. In fact, I would say that a large majority of the public don't fully understand the health dangers of adding stimulants to alcohol.

One can will simply get you moderately intoxicated. Seriously, it's not cyanide. Those kids just need to get their **** together and know when to stop.

[Mickalino]

In fact, I would say that a large majority of the public don't fully understand the health dangers of adding stimulants to alcohol.

Maybe these college students falling for it are mainly math nerds who think that the stimulants and depressants cancel each other out, according to the positive-negative formula :silly:

[Special K]

One can will simply get you moderately intoxicated. Seriously, it's not cyanide. Those kids just need to get their **** together and know when to stop.
I never said it is cyanide. Obviously it is not. However, this stuff absolutely needs to be investigated for the reasons I pretty clearly described in my above post.

And I disagree with you that one can will just get someone moderately intoxicated as evidence by the very posts from some people in this thread. And like I said before, many people, particularly younger people do not understand the dangers of alcohol and stimulants. I am glad this stuff is actually getting more publicity, albeit from an unfortunate event.

[Sticksboi05]

I never said it is cyanide. Obviously it is not. However, this stuff absolutely needs to be investigated for the reasons I pretty clearly described in my above post.

And I disagree with you that one can will just get someone moderately intoxicated as evidence by the very posts from some people in this thread. And like I said before, many people, particularly younger people do not understand the dangers of alcohol and stimulants. I am glad this stuff is actually getting more publicity, albeit from an unfortunate event.

Well, I've had it for the last like month on the weekends. One can resulted in moderate intoxication. I did not drink any other alcohol on those nights because that would've been dumb.

My university actually just sent out a warning email about it. It's just going to get people who didn't know about it to start drinking.

I agree though, people should know about mixing caffeine/alcohol. I'm taking a few weekends off from it cause it's just so bad for you and I mean it's pretty easy to tell that when drinking or at least I thought.

[Special K]

Well, I've had it for the last like month on the weekends. One can resulted in moderate intoxication. I did not drink any other alcohol on those nights because that would've been dumb.
Your alcohol tolerance is not the same as other people's tolerance. Again, as evidenced by posts in this thread by other people who have drank it.


My university actually just sent out a warning email about it. It's just going to get people who didn't know about it to start drinking.
So, I'm confused. You think it's a bad idea to educate and warn people about a harmful product? You think it should just be swept under the rug?

[DarrellsMyHero28]

My university actually just sent out a warning email about it. It's just going to get people who didn't know about it to start drinking.


That I don't care about.

I don't feel bad for anyone that damages their health by doing something that they're well aware is terrible for them.

If they're educated about the dangers and still choose to do it, that's their own stupid fault.

[Sticksboi05]

Your alcohol tolerance is not the same as other people's tolerance. Again, as evidenced by posts in this thread by other people who have drank it.


So, I'm confused. You think it's a bad idea to educate and warn people about a harmful product? You think it should just be swept under the rug?

Well, actually, I don't have that high a tolerance. I'm not a heavy drinker at all so I was surprised. I mean I took precautions such as drinking after a full meal and whatnot but still...

and I'm all for educating people...

"I agree though, people should know about mixing caffeine/alcohol"

But let's be real, these kids probably knew that it would get them very drunk and that's probably the exact reason they got Four Loko in the first place. I highly doubt they didn't know about its potency.

[SKOALSKIN]

Sounds like they should re-name Joose. Call it Delorian. When you drink it you go back to the future.

[Special K]

Well, actually, I don't have that high a tolerance. I'm not a heavy drinker at all so I was surprised. I mean I took precautions such as drinking after a full meal and whatnot but still...

and I'm all for educating people...

"I agree though, people should know about mixing caffeine/alcohol"

But let's be real, these kids probably knew that it would get them very drunk and that's probably the exact reason they got Four Loko in the first place. I highly doubt they didn't know about its potency.
Yes, that's typically why college students would drink "blackout in a can," to get hammered. It's good to hear you are in the .0000000001% of underage and young drinkers who drink responsibly.

I agree that they were drinking it because they would get drunk fast. However, I think you are missing my point about the central issue being non-specificity of ingredients in the drink and people not understanding how potent it is. This is what needs to be investigated and is currently being investigated by the FDA. You are debating this based on your experience with the drink and your perception of how people "should" act...when in fact, there are health issues that need to be seriously looked at with this drink.

[Sticksboi05]

Yes, that's typically why college students would drink "blackout in a can," to get hammered. It's good to hear you are in the .0000000001% of underage and young drinkers who drink responsibly.

I agree that they were drinking it because they would get drunk fast. However, I think you are missing my point about the central issue being non-specificity of ingredients in the drink and people not understanding how potent it is. This is what needs to be investigated and is currently being investigated by the FDA. You are debating this based on your experience with the drink and your perception of how people "should" act...when in fact, there are health issues that need to be seriously looked at with this drink.

If we are talking about health issues caused by alcohol/stimulants and not specifically morons not knowing their drinking limits, I 100% agree.

[No Excuses]

Some labs in our building are actually studying this drink lol.

Four Loko sucks anyways as do all energy alcohol drinks. Very dangerous, especially when consumed by dumbasses.

[Mickalino]

With all the mention of 4 Lokos, how about the other ones like Tilt, Joose, Sparks, etc ?

Are they basically the same exact thing ?

[Homercles82]

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20101117/FREE/101119881


Federal regulators are poised to ban alcoholic energy drinks such as Four Loko in the face of health concerns, Sen. Chuck Schumer said Tuesday, calling the move a "nail in the coffin" for drink makers.

Makers are moving to take out the caffiene from the drinks, and possibly (probably) the herbal stimulants.

I don't agree with banning items that have a market demand. People will still mix Red Bull with liquor and Monster with Jagermeister. Pretty soon all energy drinks will be banned and I will flip ****.

[DCsportsfan53]

Yay, more **** for mommy and daddy state to ban! Get the **** out my life and do something useful for a change, I can't beleive they're considering banning this. Is it going to become illegal to mix redbull and vodka, too? Same ****ing thing. I cringe when I think where this society is headed.

[Skins_Fan82]

I don't agree with banning items that have a market demand.

I completely agree with you there. If were talking about banning an item because it's dangerous, how about banning all alcohol again and cigarettes, too?

If the Four Loko stuff is causing people health problems, that's one thing. But because a couple of dumbass, UNDERAGE kids get wasted because they don't know how to drink responsibly, doesn't mean the product owners should have to pay.

[Sticksboi05]

What a joke this nation has become. Never thinking things through and completely reactionary.

[#98QBKiller]

What a joke this nation has become. Never thinking things through and completely reactionary.

This whole thing has turned into a news cow for the media. This is hardly the first time anyone has abused and gotten high on something that is readily available at the store. The only reason this comes up is because it makes for a good news story when things are slow. I saw some ***** on the TV news talking about it last night like it's the black plague. Just another bogeyman created by the media to garner up some fear-induced viewers. Pretty silly IMO.

[10fttall]

With all the mention of 4 Lokos, how about the other ones like Tilt, Joose, Sparks, etc ?

Tilt has not had caffeine, ginseng, or any other "extras" for a long time. They did, however, have a makeover to include a 24 oz can instead of 16oz, and they moved from 2 varieties at 6.6% and 8.8%, to 4 varieties all at 12%. They redesigned the cans to resemble similar drinks, kind of reminiscent of a big tatoo design.

[Mickalino]

Tilt has not had caffeine, ginseng, or any other "extras" for a long time.

I seriously wonder if the ginseng, and other "extras" make any difference. I think they're just added as a marketing ploy to make the product more attractive and sound more credible. Because you have to take supplements like ginseng for a while and accumulate it before they have an effect. AND you have to take more than the amount they put in the drink. And for a lot of people, they have no effect at all.

[10fttall]

I seriously wonder if the ginseng, and other "extras" make any difference. I think they're just added as a marketing ploy to make the product more attractive and sound more credible. Because you have to take supplements like ginseng for a while and accumulate it before they have an effect. AND you have to take more than the amount they put in the drink. And for a lot of people, they have no effect at all.

I don't think they make much difference at all. I haven't had 4Loko, but the old formula of Tilt reminded you of a red bull. I think it's probably more psychological, thinking "wow, I must have more energy!" The new Tilt will **** you up in a hurry even with no extras. That's most of the difference- it's a 12% alcohol malt beverage in a large can. Down one of those, and you've had as much alcohol as 4 beers of 6% ABV.(and 6% is on the hefty side for regular beers too!)

[Dr. Do Itch Big]

Tilt is delicious I don't know why but I enjoy dunno about four lokos never tried it.

[10fttall]

I don't know why

I think I know why, it's the 12% alcohol that you hardly notice! lol

[Skin'Em84]

Too bad, I love four loko. Too bad some idiots had to ruin it for us.

[Special K]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/17/alcohol.caffeine.drinks/index.html?hpt=T2

Don't know if this has been posted, but this is a story about the FDA warnings regarding these alcoholic energy drinks. This is not just a media-made story as the FDA has been investigating this issue for over a year....

[QBkilla56]

Any store sell it in Montgomery county? I wanna try it before they ban it but if it tastes like Sparks then good riddance.

[Special K]

Yay, more **** for mommy and daddy state to ban! Get the **** out my life and do something useful for a change, I can't beleive they're considering banning this. Is it going to become illegal to mix redbull and vodka, too? Same ****ing thing. I cringe when I think where this society is headed.
There is actually a big difference between red bull and vodka drinks and these drinks. These specific beverages are made and marketed for the sole purpose of providing someone a stimulant and depressant in the same serving. Red bull and vodka are not marketed to a younger audience as beverages that should be added to one another, thus introducing the upper and downer into the system at the same time. Big difference.

[Sticksboi05]

There is actually a big difference between red bull and vodka drinks and these drinks. These specific beverages are made and marketed for the sole purpose of providing someone a stimulant and depressant in the same serving. Red bull and vodka are not marketed to a younger audience as beverages that should be added to one another, thus introducing the upper and downer into the system at the same time. Big difference.

Still doesn't give the government the right to tell us what we can put into our system. They should probably ban anything that increases your risk of heart attack. Why allow me to get a triple cheeseburger at Wendy's? That's alot of sodium, cholesterol and saturated fat isn't it?

[skinsgirl26]

I love 4Lokos and Joose.

I really don't see how these kids are getting so messed up from drinking one...I get the stimulant/depressant argument cause it's is awful for your body, but I've never been close to blacking out from drinkin just one of these things.

So it's unhealthy and dangerous. So is drinkin a handle of alcohol. Or taking too many shots or chuggin too many beers and people do that at bars on the reg...

[Mickalino]

Too bad, I love four loko. Too bad some idiots had to ruin it for us.

You act is if they banned it

[DarrellsMyHero28]

I don't really like that they're banning it.

They're really dangerous, terrible for you etc etc but as its been said over and over in this thread there are plenty of other things that are worse that are legal. I can go buy a keg of beer and do keg stands all night until I end up in the hospital...totally legal. I can buy a case of redbull and a few handles of vodka and go to town.

I would prefer if the gov't would force the manufacturer to put better warning labels on it and would do a awareness campaign or something like that. If you know how bad something is for you (smoking) and choose to do it, so be it. However, the health consequences are on you.

[Special K]

Still doesn't give the government the right to tell us what we can put into our system. They should probably ban anything that increases your risk of heart attack. Why allow me to get a triple cheeseburger at Wendy's? That's alot of sodium, cholesterol and saturated fat isn't it?
Sure it does.

I really think the issue here is a fundamental misunderstanding regarding the severity of the dangers associated with acute effects of mixing a stimulant and a depressant as well as a misunderstanding of the details of issue at hand. Multiple studies show that the stimulant can decrease the "subjective" intoxication effects of alcohol thereby increasing the likelihood of alcohol-related consequences. This is exactly what these drinks are made and marketed to do. A handle of alcohol is not marketed to be drunk by an individual all at once. Red Bull is not marketed to be mixed with alcohol, making someone more drunk. Vodka is not specifically made and marketed to be mixed with stimulants, making someone more drunk. These alcoholic energy drinks are.

The government actually has a pretty long history of banning substances that pose a significant, acute health danger and are marketed accordingly. However, outcry against this type of stuff only seems to occur when something is a popular product and/or there is not a full understanding of the danger. For instance, there are many drugs that the government has investigated and taken off the market for the statistically significant danger they pose to the populatoin. Let's use fen-phen as an example. Fen-phen is a weight loss drug that was marketed in the 90's for...weightloss. It was made of a combination of 2 drugs: fenfluramine and phentermine and You can Wiki it if you would like, but basically fenfluramine, when used on its own, aided in only a relatively insignificant amount of weight loss. Phentermine was shown to aid in moderate levels of weight loss. When the ingredients were combined however, studies showed they facilitated significant weight loss among test subjects. After it was marketed to the public and became the weight loss drug du jour, follow-up studies showed Fen-phen significantly increased user risk of pulmonary hypertension. The drug was then quickly recalled.

I used Fen-phen as my example because this is very similar to the situation you see with alcoholic energy drinks: when specific ingredients stand alone, adverse health affects are statistically insignificant (hence the reason they are legal on their own). However, when combined, they create dangerous effects that pose a significant health risk to the public. This is much like the alcoholic energy drinks: caffeine and other stimulants, when ingested on their own only pose a relatively insignificant threat to an individual's health. Alcohol, when used on it's own, doesn't acutely put a person at risk for severe health consequences...unless they are stupid and drink an entire fifth. When these 2 ingredients are combined, investigation shows that even just one can can inhibit an individual's cognitive function enough (without them fully realizing it - which is an extremely important aspect of this debate) that it signficantly increases their risk of alcohol-related health consequences.

Finally, the attempt by some in this thread to compare a triple cheeseburger to an alcoholic energy drink is a fundamentally flawed argument as there is a major difference in the acute health effects of eating a triple cheeseburger and the acute health effects of drinking an alcoholic energy drink.

[Skins_Fan82]

You act is if they banned it

It is banned in Washington State as of TODAY.

[DCsportsfan53]

There is actually a big difference between red bull and vodka drinks and these drinks. These specific beverages are made and marketed for the sole purpose of providing someone a stimulant and depressant in the same serving. Red bull and vodka are not marketed to a younger audience as beverages that should be added to one another, thus introducing the upper and downer into the system at the same time. Big difference.

So the big difference is that 4 Lokos pre mixes it for you and sells it as an alcoholic drink therefore it's easier to go after them? Thanks for the clarification. I swear to God it feels like at some point we'll just get a government ration of vitamin water, whole grains and broccoli because everything else is potentially dangerous. Put the information about the dangers out there so the public can access it and stfu and go worry about something like, I don't know, 10% unemployment and no solid source of economic growth. Stay the hell out of what I do with my body. I'm so tired of people acting like it's the drinks fault, it's the drugs fault, it's the TVs fault, it's the gun's fault, ect, ect....whatever happened to holding people accountable for their decisions and manning up to the choices you make instead of outsourcing blame for EVERY damn thing that goes wrong? People are a lot more capable of running their lives then we act lately. This is not the governments place or jurisdiction.

[Special K]

So the big difference is that 4 Lokos pre mixes it for you and sells it as an alcoholic drink therefore it's easier to go after them? Thanks for the clarification. I swear to God it feels like at some point we'll just get a government ration of vitamin water, whole grains and broccoli because everything else is potentially dangerous. Put the information about the dangers out there so the public can access it and stfu and go worry about something like, I don't know, 10% unemployment and no solid source of economic growth. Stay the hell out of what I do with my body. I'm so tired of people acting like it's the drinks fault, it's the drugs fault, it's the TVs fault, it's the gun's fault, ect, ect....whatever happened to holding people accountable for their decisions and manning up to the choices you make instead of outsourcing blame for EVERY damn thing that goes wrong? People are a lot more capable of running their lives then we act lately. This is not the governments place or jurisdiction. So, you're cool with the FDA just being obliterated, essentially. They shouldn't ban anything that is acutely harmful, not even certain prescription drugs?

And I don't know if you are telling me or the FDA to stfu, but I highly doubt either of us will :)

[DCsportsfan53]

So, you're cool with the FDA just being obliterated, essentially. They shouldn't ban anything that is acutely harmful, not even certain prescription drugs?

And I don't know if you are telling me or the FDA to stfu, but I highly doubt either of us will :)

Not you, the FDA and I'm not saying abolish it. What I'm saying is put the information about the dangers at there for the public and let people make their own decisions about their life. You know, let us take the responsibility of protecting us from ourselves, that's not the government's job.

[jbooma]

Yep, blame the beverage and not the kids who choose to drink it.

It is the beverage. When your body is supposed to be passed out due to the alcohol it will keep you still going. This is why all those redbull/liquor drinks are not good for people. Your body is being impaired due to the combination of the caffeine and alcohol.

Heck just to much caffeine is not good for you, and when you add alcohol its even worse.

[jbooma]

There is actually a big difference between red bull and vodka drinks and these drinks. These specific beverages are made and marketed for the sole purpose of providing someone a stimulant and depressant in the same serving. Red bull and vodka are not marketed to a younger audience as beverages that should be added to one another, thus introducing the upper and downer into the system at the same time. Big difference.

Redbull and vodka though are also bad for you it masks the impact of the alcohol after a lot of drinks.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

It is the beverage. When your body is supposed to be passed out due to the alcohol it will keep you still going. This is why all those redbull/liquor drinks are not good for people. Your body is being impaired due to the combination of the caffeine and alcohol.

Heck just to much caffeine is not good for you, and when you add alcohol its even worse.

I am not saying that this drink is healthy or good for you. However, where do you draw the line. This is an alcoholic beverage that should be used responsibly and not abused. If you allow yourself to drink ANYTHING to the point where your body should be shutting down and passing out, then you are running risks. If you're dumb enough to drink enough of these to do it, you should probably have a decent idea of what you're putting into your body and learn to curtail the amounts. That's all.

I just hate how a small minority of people abuse something that the majority of people seem to use with no problems so we start looking to ban it.

[jbooma]

I am not saying that this drink is healthy or good for you. However, where do you draw the line. This is an alcoholic beverage that should be used responsibly and not abused. If you allow yourself to drink ANYTHING to the point where your body should be shutting down and passing out, then you are running risks. If you're dumb enough to drink enough of these to do it, you should probably have a decent idea of what you're putting into your body and learn to curtail the amounts. That's all.

I just hate how a small minority of people abuse something that the majority of people seem to use with no problems so we start looking to ban it.

Public health is not a "small minority", when there are multiple issues related to a drink sold it is a serious matter. Even the company selling this product knows it isn't safe. If you want to look it this another way there are a ton of energy drinks out there that are fine and never been pulled. Mixing alcohol and caffeine though is very dangerous. We are starting to see it now.

[Sticksboi05]

Sure it does.

Finally, the attempt by some in this thread to compare a triple cheeseburger to an alcoholic energy drink is a fundamentally flawed argument as there is a major difference in the acute health effects of eating a triple cheeseburger and the acute health effects of drinking an alcoholic energy drink.

Here's the thing. Because 9 morons at Central Washington can't drink responsibly, an entire product is being banned. It (the federal investigations) had NOTHING to do with the dangers of mixing alcohol and caffeine, it was because they got plastered and probably nearly died of alcohol poisoning. If idiots like that didn't drink till they almost died, the government would not care at all. It is reactionary to an isolated incident. I'm sure there are more but this entire national hype is because of what, one or two incidents.

As for the triple cheeseburger, it's the principle. And sure it could acutely kill you. Should the government ban someone with diabetes or with cardiovascular disease from fast food places because in many cases, their next Big Mac could be their last which is medically proven?

It's people's choice to risk drinking it. If you want to put a thousand warning labels on it, be my guest and quite frankly there probably should be a warning label on it but banning it because of a few clowns?

[Special K]

Here's the thing. Because 9 morons at Central Washington can't drink responsibly, an entire product is being banned. It (the federal investigations) had NOTHING to do with the dangers of mixing alcohol and caffeine, it was because they got plastered and probably nearly died of alcohol poisoning. If idiots like that didn't drink till they almost died, the government would not care at all. It is reactionary to an isolated incident. I'm sure there are more but this entire national hype is because of what, one or two incidents.

As for the triple cheeseburger, it's the principle. And sure it could acutely kill you. Should the government ban someone with diabetes or with cardiovascular disease from fast food places because in many cases, their next Big Mac could be their last which is medically proven?

It's people's choice to risk drinking it. If you want to put a thousand warning labels on it, be my guest and quite frankly there probably should be a warning label on it but banning it because of a few clowns?
You clearly do not understand the timeline here. The FDA has been investigating these alcoholic energy drinks for OVER A YEAR. The party was last month. Obviously this party didn't initiate the original FDA investigation into this or we wouldn't be hearing conclusions from the agency for over a year. So yes, the FDA investigation had EVERYTHING to do with caffeine being added to alcohol. Investigations, if you bother yourself to take a little time to read the findings, pretty clearly showed the increased acute health effects of these drinks as compared to regular alcoholic beverages without caffeine additives.

So, to clarify, FDA began investigating these drinks long before the party at CWU. They aren't banning it because of a "few clowns" at CWU. The CWU party has served only as a launching point for this issue in the media and has enabled it to gain traction. This issue has also been propagated by the young, vocal crowd crying foul against this in their never-ending battle against "the man."

Finally, regarding the cheeseburger, it's not the principle. It's a completely irrelevant comparison because it has nothing to do with the variables being scrutinized in this issue. Nothing. And the argument about banning diabetics from McDonalds is really ridiculous, I don't know how this type of argument can be made with a straight face. I really can't. You are trying to compare a product that poses an immediate health danger to the general population of users (alcoholic energy drinks), to a product that has not been proven to be an acute danger to an individual's health. Moreover, you are trying to ban a subpopulation from that particular product. The fallacies in this comparison attempt are quite pronounced when you think for more than 5 seconds about it.

[Skin'Em84]

Last day to buy it with Caffiene I believe. Or I hope, me and my roommates just bought 40 cans.

[Mickalino]

It is banned in Washington State as of TODAY.

Just that brand, or any brand of that type of drink ?

[Mickalino]

me and my roommates just bought 40 cans.

Good gosh, man. Pace yourself :)

[Sticksboi05]

You clearly do not understand the timeline here. The FDA has been investigating these alcoholic energy drinks for OVER A YEAR. The party was last month. Obviously this party didn't initiate the original FDA investigation into this or we wouldn't be hearing conclusions from the agency for over a year. So yes, the FDA investigation had EVERYTHING to do with caffeine being added to alcohol. Investigations, if you bother yourself to take a little time to read the findings, pretty clearly showed the increased acute health effects of these drinks as compared to regular alcoholic beverages without caffeine additives.

So, to clarify, FDA began investigating these drinks long before the party at CWU. They aren't banning it because of a "few clowns" at CWU. The CWU party has served only as a launching point for this issue in the media and has enabled it to gain traction. This issue has also been propagated by the young, vocal crowd crying foul against this in their never-ending battle against "the man."

Finally, regarding the cheeseburger, it's not the principle. It's a completely irrelevant comparison because it has nothing to do with the variables being scrutinized in this issue. Nothing. And the argument about banning diabetics from McDonalds is really ridiculous, I don't know how this type of argument can be made with a straight face. I really can't. You are trying to compare a product that poses an immediate health danger to the general population of users (alcoholic energy drinks), to a product that has not been proven to be an acute danger to an individual's health. Moreover, you are trying to ban a subpopulation from that particular product. The fallacies in this comparison attempt are quite pronounced when you think for more than 5 seconds about it.

Admit I didn't know that they'd been investigating that long.

Andon the McDonald's point, when you have cardiovascular or heart disease, any large portion of unhealthy food full of cholesterol and sodium and saturated fat is absolutely an acute health risk.

Again, we are not arguing about its health effects. Everybody knows it is absolutely horrible for you. That is not up for debate. In fact, a few of my friends who are pretty big drinkers, had it one night and decided to stop for good because they just knew it was terrible for you.

Fine then, let's use our imagination. I'm sure if we sat here for an hour we could come up with stuff that has an acute health risk that is FDA approved. What makes this different?

The government's job is to protect us, not to protect us from ourselves. And just because they've gotten away with it before doesn't mean it's the right thing this time.

That all said, I'm all for putting more warning labels on these things just like cigarettes. If it is as dangerous as purported, which, after having several, I cannot deny, then alert people about it. If people know that it could heavily increase their risk of say, heart attack, then people, if smart, would stop buying it and Phusion would either remove the caffeine like they are now or they'd cut the drink all together. I'm opposed to the ban on principle, not because I don't think it poses a health risk, it clearly does and should be clearly labeled as so.


So now they will remove the caffeine and stimulants from the drink and it'll go back onto shelves and students will still drink more than they should in one night and still blackout and still do stupid things. And we will be right back to step 1.

It's cheap and gets you drunk. Removing the caffeine etc. doesn't take away its main advantage. It's still effectively a dangerous drink marketed to college kids for cheap drunkenness and it will still cause dangerous behavior and health risks of alcohol poisoning.

[renaissance]

Last day to buy it with Caffiene I believe. Or I hope, me and my roommates just bought 40 cans.

Just saw someone buying a couple cans at the liquor store and the clerk told him the same thing.

[Skin'Em84]

Good gosh, man. Pace yourself :)

I'm halfway through 2 now.

[NeueRedskinWelle]

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

God damn kids who don't know their limits. I think I heard about how there was a "game" to try and drink four of these in one night. The kids are getting sick because they are morons. They live, they learn. I sure as hell figured out my limits quick in college.

Now back to drinking 40's I guess...

[boysetsfire]

Lets do this. No work the rest of the week.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/sensesfail117/fourloko.jpg

And no, i'm taking the ***** way out and only drinking one tonight.............I think.

[Skin'Em84]

Lets do this. No work the rest of the week.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/sensesfail117/fourloko.jpg

And no, i'm taking the ***** way out and only drinking one tonight.............I think.

Dude, I've done 2. Come on man

[boysetsfire]

Dude, I've done 2. Come on man

Dude I hate malt liquor. I've had bad experiences in the past and I am not living that crap out again. Besides, I said "I think" at the end. :pfft:

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

How does this stuff taste?

With all of the publicity, I'm really curious now.....

[boysetsfire]

How does this stuff taste?

With all of the publicity, I'm really curious now.....

My gf says it tastes like red bull, juice, and alcohol. I think it tastes like a cheap fruity shot.

[boysetsfire]

So just finished one of these cans. And yeah I feel like I've had 5 or 6 beers. I know my limit and I don't know how these idiots tried drinking 4 cans of this ****.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

My gf says it tastes like red bull, juice, and alcohol. I think it tastes like a cheap fruity shot.

Wow...reading that just gave me a splitting headache.

[boysetsfire]

Also don't get the "fruit punch flavor". It tastes like robitussen cough syrup.

[Skin'Em84]

So just finished one of these cans. And yeah I feel like I've had 5 or 6 beers. I know my limit and I don't know how these idiots tried drinking 4 cans of this ****.

Halfway through 3. I'm an alcoholic.

[Skin'Em84]

Also don't get the "fruit punch flavor". It tastes like robitussen cough syrup.


I like this flavor :-p

[Sticksboi05]

It tastes like garbage. Orange flavor is at least edible. I look forward to it now that it won't have caffeine and other crap. Just 5 beers in a can.

[boysetsfire]

Halfway through 3. I'm an alcoholic.

I don't know how man. There is no way I could do 3 cans of this ****. I'm done after I finish this second one.

[Skin'Em84]

I don't know how man. There is no way I could do 3 cans of this ****. I'm done after I finish this second one.

drunk, but finishing can 3.

[Skin'Em84]

4.5 and a lip. I think i may be sleepin soon.

[Bibby]

I like beer.

[NeueRedskinWelle]

The watermelon (Green with red camo) is the best one. If you try one try that one.

But you gotta figure what you're drinking and not think about the taste. I used to chug Steels in college all the time, so my taste buds rather enjoy the sweetness of getting hammered.

I've been drinking these things since they've come out and 2 still get me very drunk.

[Skin'Em84]

My body hates me.

[boysetsfire]

First and last time. NEVER AGAIN.

[PF Chang]

Haha. This thread has turned into a great timeline of 4 loko. Start drinking, ok this taste is absurd, but I guess I'll keep going... time travel, regret.

[renaissance]

Loko was nasty and I don't see why anyone would drink it unless they're just trying to get really drunk really fast. boysetsfire crushed 2 of them last night on an empty stomach and then proceeded to play every DMX song on youtube.

[boysetsfire]

Loko was nasty and I don't see why anyone would drink it unless they're just trying to get really drunk really fast. boysetsfire crushed 2 of them last night on an empty stomach and then proceeded to play every DMX song on youtube.


:rotflmao::rotflmao:

Don't hate cuz you weren't hood enough.

[Sticksboi05]

Loko was nasty and I don't see why anyone would drink it unless they're just trying to get really drunk really fast. boysetsfire crushed 2 of them last night on an empty stomach and then proceeded to play every DMX song on youtube.

Woof woof! Stop drop! Shut em down open up shop!

[Skins_Fan82]

Woof woof! Stop drop! Shut em down open up shop!

i can see some dude screaming that as he sings along in a drunken rage :ols:

[jbooma]

Admit I didn't know that they'd been investigating that long.

Andon the McDonald's point, when you have cardiovascular or heart disease, any large portion of unhealthy food full of cholesterol and sodium and saturated fat is absolutely an acute health risk.


Its a health risk but the difference is you will not DIE from lets say 1-5 of even of those BK super duper burgers, thats the difference :)

[Mickalino]

WWAY : FDA : Alcoholic energy drinks to be off shelves in December

http://www.wwaytv3.com/fda_alcoholic_energy_drinks_be_shelves_december/11/2010

[Sticksboi05]

Its a health risk but the difference is you will not DIE from lets say 1-5 of even of those BK super duper burgers, thats the difference :)

Well, I have not seen one documented incident of Four Loko by itself killing anyone. However, chugging it and downing mixed drinks left and right will obviously cause a problem.

[TheDoyler23]

The last two liquor stores I went to didn't have it. I would've tried one had they had any. Ah well.

[#98QBKiller]

I drank one of these last night. Found it at a gas station. I drank it and a few beers before going out last night and I couldn't tell a huge difference than if I'd just drank beer the whole time. I did have more energy but that's about it. I had a fruit punch one and it tasted like ass. Took me a while to finish it.

[edgun88]

I drank two of these one night about a year ago and had the worst hangover of my life...my highs and lows got all ****ed up and the next day i could barely function.

Since then I haven't touched them.

[Reic]

Four Loko and Joose is popular here at ODU. They taste like **** but they are cheap for the buzz

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

I drank two of these one night about a year ago and had the worst hangover of my life...my highs and lows got all ****ed up and the next day i could barely function.

Since then I haven't touched them.

Ever heard of Thunderbird (http://www.bumwine.com/tbird.html)? Me and my buddies bought a couple of them and some Night Train (http://www.bumwine.com/tbird.html) back in my Army days. I drank like a bottle of that and a little bit of the Night Train. I was absolutely destroyed the next day. My head had the worst pain and everytime I stood up or tried to walk, everything would go white and I couldn't see anything and my balance was all jacked. I spent almost the entire workday hiding out on a toilet because I literally couldn't function. (Calling out wasn't an option.) I've never experienced anything like that before or since. To this day, thinking about that crap makes me gag.


Has there ever been a thread about alcohol/hangover stories? That might be fun. Seem to remember it being done though.

[DarrellsMyHero28]

Has there ever been a thread about alcohol/hangover stories? That might be fun. Seem to remember it being done though.

Do it, I'm sure we'd have plenty of good ones.

I'm too tired right now to put in the effort :ols:

[Mickalino]

I still see these drinks in the store. I thought they were to be banned nationwide by now.

[Spec138]

I still see these drinks in the store. I thought they were to be banned nationwide by now.

Same I saw someone buying one a weekend or two ago.

[PF Chang]

I think it was reformulated to take out the caffeine, not sure though. Could be why

[Mickalino]

I think it was reformulated to take out the caffeine, not sure though. Could be why

So, basically they're no longer "energy alcohol" drinks. And it's just alcohol :(

[lovetoaster]

I think it was reformulated to take out the caffeine, not sure though. Could be why

You are correct. I checked one out the other day and it did not have caffeine.

[Sticksboi05]

They have no caffeine or guarana or taurine anymore.

[SKOALSKIN]

This unjust attack on economy beer has got to stop. I enjoy a 40 oz from time to time and I was fortunate enough to try a four lokos (cranberry lemonade) the other weekend. I will say that it was the most efficient alcohol delievery method to date. It allows you to have the energy to party with out any recolection. True they tend to market the flavors to babes i.e. watermelon, blue raspberry, sour apple. But lets not take away our rights to party.

[Mickalino]

They have no caffeine or guarana or taurine anymore.

Is it just Four Lokos, or all of them ?

And is it nationwide ?

[PF Chang]

This unjust attack on economy beer has got to stop. I enjoy a 40 oz from time to time and I was fortunate enough to try a four lokos (cranberry lemonade) the other weekend. I will say that it was the most efficient alcohol delievery method to date. It allows you to have the energy to party with out any recolection. True they tend to market the flavors to babes i.e. watermelon, blue raspberry, sour apple. But lets not take away our rights to party.

I concur on the cranberry lemonade. I personally consider the flavor the classiest of all Lokos, and look forward to enjoying one at State Pattys Day this weekend. The town of State College, PA, on the other hand, won't appreciate it much

[Mickalino]

Looks like one of the makers still has the same formula : Joose, which still indicates caffeine in their drinks.
This appears on their website :

"According to the FDA, there is evidence that caffeinated alcoholic beverages may pose unusual risks to health and safety, particularly for young adults. Consumers of JOOSE beverages are reminded to drink responsibly."

http://www.drinkjoose.com/new.html

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

I finally got a hold of one of these....I'm just waiting for the right time :)

[Mickalino]

I finally got a hold of one of these....I'm just waiting for the right time :)

:)

sVwjzkIdmog

[SKOALSKIN]

I concur on the cranberry lemonade. I personally consider the flavor the classiest of all Lokos, and look forward to enjoying one at State Pattys Day this weekend. The town of State College, PA, on the other hand, won't appreciate it much

I doubt you would resort to this. But if you find yourself in a more professional or formal event. The cranberry Lemonade can be poured into a wine glass and consumed accordingly.

[PF Chang]

I doubt you would resort to this. But if you find yourself in a more professional or formal event. The cranberry Lemonade can be poured into a wine glass and consumed accordingly.

:ols::ols: Some would say it's among the finest red wines available

[Mickalino]

I doubt you would resort to this. But if you find yourself in a more professional or formal event. The cranberry Lemonade can be poured into a wine glass and consumed accordingly.


:ols::ols: Some would say it's among the finest red wines available

Redneck Wine, I assume you refer to :)

[Mickalino]

So the FDA bans all those "energy alcohol drinks" like Four Loko, or requires them to reformulate them without the caffeine, yet they don't have a problem with bars basically selling the same thing, like Yeager-Bombs, which is essentially an "energy-high caffeine-liquor" drink. What's up with that ? Sure, bars are more of a controlled environment, but why not just limit the amount someone can purchase in a store, like they do with freakin Nyquil. Otherwise it seems like a double-standard.

Heck, you could even make your own !!!

Just buy a Monster drink, and a liquor drink at the same convenience store and go home and MIX IT YOURSELF !!

But yet, we can't buy them in the same drink ?!