Forget the Mcnabb benching, going for it on 4th down was THE bad call

[BLEED-B&G]

over 3 minutes left only down by 3. 2 timeouts and we go for it on 4th and 10 on our own 30 something.

We basically spot them 3 points. And force our offense to score a touchdown on the next series.

We should have kicked the ball away, hope the D does it's job, used our timeouts and force Detroit to kick it to Banks (or likely out of bounds).

We then would have only had to get into field goal range to tie it and send it to overtime.

This was the biggest coaching gaffe.

[Skinz4Life12]

agreed. i was upset when we went for it on 4th down

[blue collar]

Yeah, that was a panic move.

[MCnDaHouse]

Yeah we had 2 times out and the 2 min warning. If it had been inside the 2min warning I would have seen them going for it. Otherwise we doomed ourselves.

[DjTj]

Especially if they didn't trust McNabb at that point. If the QB can't run a two-minute drill, he probably can't pick up a fourth down either. :2cents:

[TD_washingtonredskins]

On one hand...I like the attitude of trying to win. At times, I think coaches make decisions to keep the score respectable. Punting it away and risking never getting the ball back guarantees that we lose that game no worse than 28-25. The one thing I didn't mind about the 4th down decision is that Shanahan showed he didn't care if we lost by 3 or by 10+. Now, in reality, I agree overall that we had a better shot to flip the field, get a stop, give Banks another shot at a punt return, and get into FG range.

[panel]

I don't think move was that bad, going for the 2 PC with 9 minutes left, and then again later was a bad move. You need to wait there are only about 3 minute left to decide to go for 2.

[drowland]

Agreed, they gave Detriot the ball back already in FG range.

[BurgundyBlog]

Hard to say which was the "biggest" mistake when you look at the QB switch, the two dubious two-point conversion attempts, and the abandonment of the running game despite Pop Warner-like pass protection... but yes, this fourth-down decision was certainly an important and underrated one.

[Bang]

I agree... could not justify that. A defensive stand and the ball goes back to Banks,,, and who knows what he could do with it.

~Bang

[Gibbsisgod2006]

I thought the biggest mistake was throwing with 4 min to go instead of running the ball even though they might not have gone anywhere they still could have ate some clock and pinned the lions back.

[loren]

The premise of this thread is completely wrong

Going for it is is a questionable call that you can debate about...there wasn't much time left in the game, even with two timeouts and the two minute warning, you're gambling on your defense not giving up a first down, and even if they do hold, you're probably not going to have any timeouts, and won't have much time left at all. Shanahan probably got that call wrong, but it kind of worked out anyway (the Skins still got the ball back with a chance to win). Bad call, but not completely indefensible.

Compare that to benching McNabb, which was about ten levels of stupid every way you think about it. First, there was ZERO chance it would work out. Donovan McNabb is going to the Hall of Fame in all likelihood. He hasn't been good at all this year, but Rex Grossman sucks. That is why he is a backup quarterback, he is just not good enough to be a starter in this league, period. Second, despite Shanny's best efforts to explain it, it is completely indefensible. Grossman knows the "terminology" better than McNabb? Give me a break. It's a two-minute offense, which should just be a microcosm of your regular offense. It's the eighth game of the season (and McNabb had most of the whole offseason and preseason) and if McNabb can't understand what the words you're using mean, then just give him words he understands (and by the way, if your terminology is that difficult to pick up, then maybe there's something wrong with your terminology).

But what really takes this to a level of idiocy beyond a typical doubtful coaching decision is the ramifications. With less than two minutes left before the bye week, Shanahan, for no real reason, turned a disappointing, stinging, but pretty standard loss into something far bigger. He opened a big can of worms that didn't need to be opened. Now, all of the players will hear for two solid weeks about this, and begin to start choosing sides, and there's a chance that a decent portion of them will turn on their head coach and offensive coordinator (who, by the way, can't have a ton of credibility since his offense sucks, and he's younger than like half the roster).

You just can't credibly compare a blown coaching decision to the benching of McNabb, unless you're purposely trying to be contrarian. Going for it on fourth was debatable, but probably wrong, but that call is NOT threatening to undermine the season. But the gloriousness of the stupidity of the decision to bench McNabb is that there was NO upside whatsoever, but it threatens to undermine the entire season. Since McNabb is a professional (and I guess so is Shanahan) they may come out of this with minimal damage, but why even take a risk and make a decision that could submarine your whole season? Not only that, if there was any chance McNabb would sign here, that is 100% (or at least 99.5%) gone now. Now, some may think that is not such a bad thing given McNabb's play this year, but now that that option is completely off the table, the Redskins are guaranteed to have zero viable options for the most important position on the field going into the 2011 season. So, however this season turns out, this decision threatens to have ramifications going into NEXT year. And again, there was NO UPSIDE!!! How much dumber does it get?

[XEL]

What truly pissed me off were all those damn two-point conversion tries. Kick the damn ball.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I thought the biggest mistake was throwing with 4 min to go instead of running the ball even though they might not have gone anywhere they still could have ate some clock and pinned the lions back.

I agree...shorten the game as much as possible and hope your D can bail you out one more time. The offense wasn't going to get the 4-5 first downs necessary to get the game-clinching FG at that point anyway.

[70Chip44]

Yeah, that was a panic move.

- Correct, he panicked and choked

[DixieFlatline]

There were a lot of questionable moves in the games and this was one of them. I couldn't believe we went for it. 4th and less than 5....maybe? But 10? Didn't make any sense with 2 timeouts and the 2:00 minute warning.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I agree... could not justify that. A defensive stand and the ball goes back to Banks,,, and who knows what he could do with it.

~Bang

I was shocked by the call myself. It made zero sense at the time and still doesn't. On a related note to the above, can you believe they persisted in kicking it to Banks all game? Even when they were reckoning to pouch it near the end they still kicked it high and short, giving him an ideal chance to return it.

Dumbass tactics given what he'd done to them all game.

Hail.

[Dick Edds]

The premise of this thread is completely wrong

Going for it is is a questionable call that you can debate about...there wasn't much time left in the game, even with two timeouts and the two minute warning, you're gambling on your defense not giving up a first down, and even if they do hold, you're probably not going to have any timeouts, and won't have much time left at all. Shanahan probably got that call wrong, but it kind of worked out anyway (the Skins still got the ball back with a chance to win). Bad call, but not completely indefensible.

Compare that to benching McNabb, which was about ten levels of stupid every way you think about it. First, there was ZERO chance it would work out. Donovan McNabb is going to the Hall of Fame in all likelihood. He hasn't been good at all this year, but Rex Grossman sucks. That is why he is a backup quarterback, he is just not good enough to be a starter in this league, period. Second, despite Shanny's best efforts to explain it, it is completely indefensible. Grossman knows the "terminology" better than McNabb? Give me a break. It's a two-minute offense, which should just be a microcosm of your regular offense. It's the eighth game of the season (and McNabb had most of the whole offseason and preseason) and if McNabb can't understand what the words you're using mean, then just give him words he understands (and by the way, if your terminology is that difficult to pick up, then maybe there's something wrong with your terminology).

But what really takes this to a level of idiocy beyond a typical doubtful coaching decision is the ramifications. With less than two minutes left before the bye week, Shanahan, for no real reason, turned a disappointing, stinging, but pretty standard loss into something far bigger. He opened a big can of worms that didn't need to be opened. Now, all of the players will hear for two solid weeks about this, and begin to start choosing sides, and there's a chance that a decent portion of them will turn on their head coach and offensive coordinator (who, by the way, can't have a ton of credibility since his offense sucks, and he's younger than like half the roster).

You just can't credibly compare a blown coaching decision to the benching of McNabb, unless you're purposely trying to be contrarian. Going for it on fourth was debatable, but probably wrong, but that call is NOT threatening to undermine the season. But the gloriousness of the stupidity of the decision to bench McNabb is that there was NO upside whatsoever, but it threatens to undermine the entire season. Since McNabb is a professional (and I guess so is Shanahan) they may come out of this with minimal damage, but why even take a risk and make a decision that could submarine your whole season? Not only that, if there was any chance McNabb would sign here, that is 100% (or at least 99.5%) gone now. Now, some may think that is not such a bad thing given McNabb's play this year, but now that that option is completely off the table, the Redskins are guaranteed to have zero viable options for the most important position on the field going into the 2011 season. So, however this season turns out, this decision threatens to have ramifications going into NEXT year. And again, there was NO UPSIDE!!! How much dumber does it get?

this is the best post-game analysis I have seen yet. And to add to your comments, so what if Rex did manage to pull off some kind of fluke and win the game. What do you do, start Rex and bench McNabb possibly the rest of the season? While I understand Shanny's "no one is bigger than the team" motto ... at the same time you have to have leaders out there as an example or the others. This is exactly WHY you brought Dmac in here in the first place, to give this team a fighting chance at the end of the game.

Had McNabb publicly questioned the Shanny's coaching strategy, or created some kind of strife between the players and coaches this would make sense. This was a LOSE-LOSE situation and decision, and Shanny got it wrong in the clutch. Maybe Mcnabb isn't the only one who is now perceived to choke under pressure. How were we to know that McNabb couldn't run the 2 minute drill. Shanny is also a terrible liar. He has now lost what credibility he had in the Haynesworth debate ... the perception will now be that Shanny is the dictator. I'm just dumbfounded that after as whacky of a game, that Shanny actually thought that Rex gave us the best chance to win. I keep trying to tell myself that Shanny just wanted to keep McNabb from getting injured, but didn't want to publicly admit defeat or throw his entire OL under the bus, especially with the questionable line-up decisions on the OL. But at the expense if your biggest leader at the most important position on the field? I fear this will have bad ramifications unless we can get on a winning streak. B/c hovering around .500 with this type of drama is creating a bigger hole than what was already there.

[GaryGreenMonk]

if you were going to do something risky...

i would have rather short punted it on purpose and hoped for a fumble or a accidental touch and recover.

[Rypien1191]

I don't mind the 2 point attempt or going for it on 4th and 10.

2 point conversion attempt is standard and textbook. When you're up 5 in the 4th quarter after a score (especially in the 10-12 minute range), you go for 2. Pretty simple. Odds are more likely the other team will get ONE touchdown than TWO field goals (without you scoring).

The 4th and 10 - We've lost so many games the past few years playing overly conservative, I'm happy we're taking risks. In that spot, you've got about a 25% chance of making a first down. If you miss, there's a good chance you hold them to 3 (which was what happened - Lions played conservative cause they didn't want to risk the 3 points), and we got the ball back at the same spot with hardly any time elapsed and down 6 instead of 3, but at least we had the chance at the first down. If we punted, we might not get the ball back at all.. Detroit might have thrown a pass to CJ and played less conservative... if we punt, at best we get the ball back in the same spot down 3, but we remove the chance of the first down on 4th and 10.

[PlayAction]

If you punt on 4th and 10, then the Lions are going to try to eat up the clock and move the ball slowly down the field for an eventual field goal attempt. The likely outcome is that the Skins don't get the ball back unless they are able to stop the Lions on a 3-and-out. With the Lions already in field goal range they know that they can prevent the Skins from tying the game by FG as long as they don't screw anything up. So the Lions' playcalling is likely to be conservative. Skins gambled to allow the Lions no more than a quick field goal. Result - more time for the last Skins drive to win the game. Too bad it didn't work out that way.

[Jay Master Jay]

i am getting the impression our new beloved coach has been reading his own press clippings. He won a Super Bowl because of John Elway and Terrell Davis he needs to stop thinking its him. Its a combination great coaches and players but he have some good players that he is playing head games with. Fat Albert is a good player and so is McNabb the best at their position on our team why is our coach not giving us a chance to win with our best players on the field? You take out your starting qb down by 6 with 2 minutes left? You dont have your best defensive linemen on the field when you play Peyton Manning. Someone needs to take a chill pill and it doesnt seem like its our players this time its our coach. IMO

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

i was kinda indifferent. i didnt like it because it was 4th and 10 but i was worried about punting it back to them. with the way their passing game had carved us up it was a risky move to give them the ball back.

[hail2skins]

Debatable call to be sure. There were actually more like 2 minutes 15 seconds left when the 4th down play occurred. We were at our 28. People talk about "oooh, we hold them, they'd have to punt to Banks, etc." While Banks had a great game, what about the craptastic show Hunter was putting on? If we punt, more than likely he puts it out at the 40 again and even if we hold them, the Lions punt from good field position anyway. It seems like at the end they got smart and, like we did with Hester the previous week, started delibarately trying to avoid Banks.

[TheLongshot]

i was kinda indifferent. i didnt like it because it was 4th and 10 but i was worried about punting it back to them. with the way their passing game had carved us up it was a risky move to give them the ball back.

While I didn't like it, from the results I think there was a concern that the Lions would eat up some clock. Better to give up the three and still keep it at one score with enough time to drive down for a TD. Course, then he made the dumbass switch to Grossman...

[jgibbsfootball]

i was kinda indifferent. i didnt like it because it was 4th and 10 but i was worried about punting it back to them. with the way their passing game had carved us up it was a risky move to give them the ball back.

I agree. We took the lead twice late in the 2nd half only to see Detroit retake the lead at will. Our defense did not do much after half time. It was just a bad offensive performance fron the o-line and Mcnabb both.

[Spearfeather]

Agreed. Bad move.

[skins4eva]

It was a horrendous decision. But, there were many, many questionable calls from the braintrust in this game. The entire game plan looked suspect, and when it was clear that their defense was getting pressure up the middle all day, we didn't seem to adjust or do anything to counteract it. I was really, really disappointed with the offensive coaching staff.

[AzSkinsFan63]

Let's face it that was a very poorly managed Skins game..perioid! reminded me of Norv and Zorn..Happy Halloween I guess.

For that kind of game to come from Shanahan's I am completely floored. McNabb must have felt like Andy Reid was his HC again.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Worst decision of the game. Opportune defense playing a mistake prone QB and a team that can't run the ball. Add the fact that the Lions couldn't contain Banks all day and it just makes the decision even worse.

[wysknz1]

The biggest mistake was the encroachment after the D stopped Detroit and it was 4th and 4 and it gave them a 1st and they converted it into a TD.

[GoDeep81]

over 3 minutes left only down by 3. 2 timeouts and we go for it on 4th and 10 on our own 30 something.



Yea, not sure what was up, but the coaches crapped the bed the last few minutes of that game for sure..

[Slacky McSlackAss]

They were driving up and down the field on us, might as well give them the 3 points they were gonna get already and save a few minutes on the clock.