Seems like the media tide has turned on McNabb

[The Diesel]

For the first day or so after the benching there was outrage all over the place. How could you bench Donovan McNabb? This is ridiculous!

Now every time I hear someone talking about it, they point out the fact that McNabb just isn't getting it done. Nobody seems to be blaming Shanahan anymore except that he didn't just come out and say "I benched him because he's not playing well." The only thing he's being taken to task for is the bs excuses.

They were talking about this on WPL yesterday and one of the guys pointed out that the Redskins are 31st in the league on 3rd down. This is of course because they are constantly in 3rd and 7 or worse. His point - with which I agree - is that McNabb is so inaccurate on 1st and 2nd down that he's putting them in these difficult situations on 3rd and Shanahan is fed up with it. He's missing easy throws. It's undeniable at this point. Talk about the O-line all you want, and yes it's a problem. But even when he has time he's missing throws that he needs to make.

I was very excited about McNabb coming to DC. I thought very highly of him in Philly. Yes, I was aware of his worm burner throws but overall I thought he was an excellent QB. It's time to admit what we all should know at this point. He's been well below average for us this year. He's probably not even a better option than Rex Grossman right now. He's not going to be back next year and finally...(sigh)...the Redskins did it again. They made a horrible decision that cost them valuable draft picks to acquire a player past his prime and not very good anymore.

Andy Reid owned us. He did. It sucks, but he did.

[stuck_N_virginia]

he cant even hit open receivers in the backfield on screen plays.. he always underthrows or overthrows them. my 12 year old could hit a wide open sellers or cooley from 10 yards.

conversely, there has been a notable number of dropped balls that could have easily put up yards.

[MustangSteve]

I totally agree, how could McNabb do such a poor job learning a new system with many offensive players that wasn't even in the NFL last year? There is NO excuse for that, he should be playing like Manning, Brees and Brady right now.

[panel]

I totally agree, how could McNabb do such a poor job learning a new system with many offensive players that wasn't even in the NFL last year? There is NO excuse for that, he should be playing like Manning, Brees and Brady right now.

I think McNabbs mistakes have nothing to do with new system, I actually think he has done a great job in learning the system. He doesn't seem to be making stupid plays, but he has been very inaccurate, missing easy throws, and that is what has been hurting him the most this season, I don't that that is related to the system.

[The Diesel]

I totally agree, how could McNabb do such a poor job learning a new system with many offensive players that wasn't even in the NFL last year? There is NO excuse for that, he should be playing like Manning, Brees and Brady right now.


What does system or personnel have to do with throwing a ball accurately 10 yards down or across the field. We (the media and I) are talking about when he makes a decent read and finds a player open yet still can't execute the simplest pass to get that player the ball.

[Skinz4Life12]

mcnabb has missed some throws to be sure, but the games he's looked like total crap are the games he is getting hit every play.

he's had some decent/good games when he's had time

[Dan T.]

The fact is that McNabb, for the most part, hasn't been playing well up to now. New scheme, sieve-like offensive line, mediocre running game, lack of receiving targets, and bad hammys are all contributing factors. The ****storm of the benching overshadowed that fact in the media for much of the bye week.

The good news is 1. we know he can play better, 2. the bye week gives him (and dinged O-linemen) a chance to heal, and 3. he's responded to being benched in the past with excellent football. Shanahan poked at Donovan's pride last week. He will respond accordingly, IMO.

[MustangSteve]

I think McNabbs mistakes have nothing to do with new system, I actually think he has done a great job in learning the system. He doesn't seem to be making stupid plays, but he has been very inaccurate, missing easy throws, and that is what has been hurting him the most this season, I don't that that is related to the system.I agree, McNabb has been innacurate, but somehow he ended up 6th in the NFL in passing yards with weapons that's never even played in this league last year and a 50 year old WR. Armstrong, K Williams, R Torain and Galloway. Give this man a better oline and receivers and watch his game take off to another level.

[ATLredskin]

Everyone on the offense is to blame for the slow start. Line can't block, WRs and TEs dropping passes, RBs not finding holes, and QBs not completing passes. Don't try to blame everything on McNabb. Without McNabb we have Rex Grossman behind him and we already seen what he can do.

Edit: And I forgot offensive coordinator calling horrible plays

[bikie]

have noticed that too... it went from, "how can another coach possible disrespect donovan like this???" to "horrible redzone QB, could this be the end of his career as a starter?"

I go back and forth from being surprised donovan is not more accurate to wondering what he can do with our oline and lack of weapons... it's one thing to cherry pick certain throws where he has time and there's an open guy he misses... but to ignore the previous 5 plays where he was pressured from the moment the ball was snapped is not fair... when a QB has a lousy line like ours, their internal clock changes and they sometimes rush throws when they don't have to...

the most surprising thing to me has been how disappointed the shanahan's appear to be with him...

[70Chip44]

- Cant we give this a FULL season! Crap!....two years ago we were 6-2 and everyone was lovin us, callin Campbell an MVP candidate and then it all went down hill....there is time to turn this around, give it a CHANCE.

[hawgboy]

We knew what DMak brought to the table when we got him...we've watched him do it in Philly for years. I look at him and see the guy who gets you better then 4-12 and keeps the seat warm for the QB you're going to draft.

[The Diesel]

have noticed that too... it went from, "how can another coach possible disrespect donovan like this???" to "horrible redzone QB, could this be the end of his career as a starter?"

I go back and forth from being surprised donovan is not more accurate to wondering what he can do with our oline and lack of weapons... it's one thing to cherry pick certain throws where he has time and there's an open guy he misses... but to ignore the previous 5 plays where he was pressured from the moment the ball was snapped is not fair... when a QB has a lousy line like ours, their internal clock changes and they sometimes rush throws when they don't have to...

the most surprising thing to me has been how disappointed the shanahan's appear to be with him...

Cherry picking those throws are what it's all about though. That's really the key thing that this hinges on. I understand he's running for his life a lot of the time, and he doesn't have a very talented receiving corp, but on those few throws a game he gets where he has time and he has an open receiver and he just whiffs.... those are the killers. We need our QB to be making decent passes on those. I don't blame McNabb for not having a higher 3rd down percentage. At that point, when it's 3rd and 8 the series has already been lost for the most part. It's the throws he's making on 2nd and 8 that are killing us and putting us in 3rd downs we can't win.

[MustangSteve]

What does system or personnel have to do with throwing a ball accurately 10 yards down or across the field. We (the media and I) are talking about when he makes a decent read and finds a player open yet still can't execute the simplest pass to get that player the ball.
Rag on him all you want, we are half way through this season with a chance to make the playoffs. He hasn't looked great, but it sure is nice playing meaningful games in November with a veteran QB like him.

[The Diesel]

Rag on him all you want, we are half way through this season with a chance to make the playoffs. He hasn't looked great, but it sure is nice playing meaningful games in November with a veteran QB like him.

That's assuming he's the QB that plays in November.

[x96bryan10]

Even if it comes to it where Mcnabb doesn't want to be back here next year. We will almost certainly franchise him to ensure that if he leaves we get something back for it. I could hardly believe that Mike and Bruce would put themselves into a position that is going to make them seem like fools. Even if we only get a 2nd or 3rd back for him so be it. It was worth the chance to try and field a competitive team over the next 2-3 years. If the Mcnabb experiment fails i think then you will see us move to the more traditional rebuild. Prolly see AL traded at the end of the year and other free agents leave rather than resign them at this point. Surely rocky is worth a 5th comp pick.

[konga2145]

have noticed that too... it went from, "how can another coach possible disrespect donovan like this???" to "horrible redzone QB, could this be the end of his career as a starter?"

I go back and forth from being surprised donovan is not more accurate to wondering what he can do with our oline and lack of weapons... it's one thing to cherry pick certain throws where he has time and there's an open guy he misses... but to ignore the previous 5 plays where he was pressured from the moment the ball was snapped is not fair... when a QB has a lousy line like ours, their internal clock changes and they sometimes rush throws when they don't have to...

the most surprising thing to me has been how disappointed the shanahan's appear to be with him... I don't think I have heard a Shanny make 1 statement against Mcnabbs play. The problem with us and the media is we speculate to much. He tried something, it backfired, end of story, if we can leave it alone.

[Taylor4Life]

On another note, Westbrook did very well with McNabb catching balls out of the backfield. Was Westbrook catching short dump offs or was he running deep routes, does anyone remember? It's hard to imagine that Westbrook made a living from short passes from McNabb based on what we've seen so far... Maybe a Philly fan can chime in.

[skins island connection]

Ehhh, the media is just pissed off that they don't have Romo to coddle and jerk off, so they're taking their frustrations out on whoever they can.
If people want to dog McNabb about him missing receivers, then how about a little fair play and dog the receivers who have dropped catchable balls thrown to them!
It works both ways folks...

[MustangSteve]

That's assuming he's the QB that plays in November.So now he's playing poorly enough to bring in Rex? I seen all I needed to out of Rex in 1:48.

[USS Redskins]

Give him time and he will beat you.

With Campbell, the team would likely be 2-6.

with a Good O-Line (including run blocking) the team could be 6-2.

With a reliable kicker the team would be 5-3, maybe 6-2

With McNabb and his dirt balls/overthrows, bad oline, spotty run game and at-best, medicore to bad defense.. they are 4-4.

The could easily finish 10-6 or 4-12.

[konga2145]

Give him time and he will beat you.

With Campbell, the team would likely be 2-6.

with a Good O-Line (including run blocking) the team could be 6-2.

With a reliable kicker the team would be 5-3, maybe 6-2

With McNabb and his dirt balls/overthrows, bad oline, spotty run game and at-best, medicore to bad defense.. they are 4-4.

The could easily finish 10-6 or 4-12. I don't think our kicker has been that bad actually

[#98QBKiller]

Wow 8 games in and the Chicken Littles are already praising Andy Reid for pulling the wool over our eyes. Take a look at Donovan's supporting cast and tell me why you think he's struggled. Our offensive line can't protect him, we are bare at the WR position and the run game isn't hitting on all cylinders. I can't believe anyone would think Rex Grossman is on par with Donovan McNabb at this point.

Look what happened on Grossman's first snap. A sack, a fumble and Suh's first NFL TD. It was like having Jason Campbell back for a play.

I don't understand the thought process from some of you.

[#98QBKiller]

Give him time and he will beat you.

With Campbell, the team would likely be 2-6.

with a Good O-Line (including run blocking) the team could be 6-2.

With a reliable kicker the team would be 5-3, maybe 6-2

With McNabb and his dirt balls/overthrows, bad oline, spotty run game and at-best, medicore to bad defense.. they are 4-4.

The could easily finish 10-6 or 4-12.

This is a wild and crazy assessment but honestly, it's 100 percent true.

[dogsofwar]

I hate to say I told you so, but I've said all along that McNabb SUCKS! You should hear all the Philly sports radio laughing and saying they knew he was a "good" QB at best, not great. I posted the "McNabb Not The Answer" thread in the beginning of the season and am now laughing at all of you who thought he would bring the SB to Washington! Ahhh! Ha! Ha! Ha!

[Skinz4Life12]

I hate to say I told you so, but I've said all along that McNabb SUCKS! You should hear all the Philly sports radio laughing and saying they knew he was a "good" QB at best, not great. I posted the "McNabb Not The Answer" thread in the beginning of the season and am now laughing at all of you who thought he would bring the SB to Washington! Ahhh! Ha! Ha! Ha!

You are so cool

[scott.sharrer]

- Cant we give this a FULL season! Crap!....two years ago we were 6-2 and everyone was lovin us, callin Campbell an MVP candidate and then it all went down hill....there is time to turn this around, give it a CHANCE.

Couldn't of said it better

[Frostx08]

We have had a lot of inconsistencies all over the place. The O-line, the running game. Oh and btw...more often than not you need a consistent running game to convert those 3rd downs. Not having 3rd & longs helps too

I've mentioned several times that McNabb is finding Moss & Cooley a higher percentage of the time and yet, some people are making it seem as if he's just missing everyone including them. He isn't....the numbers prove it

I don't think the media has turned on McNabb. They still think that the benching was stupid, as we all do. I haven't seen anything that says otherwise. However with Terrell Owens, Freddie Mitchell, and everyone else piling on....it's created that perception

As for Rex Grossman, he has more interceptions than tds in his career...and that doesn't even include the fumbles. He also has a 54% completion rate if you care about that sort of thing. Unless he's drastically improved, asking for Grossman shows how unreasonable people can really be

It can't be said yet if Reid screwed us. This is not the McNabb that was playing for Philly...that's not opinion that's fact. He was much more effective there and it's not as if he had a running game to cover up for him. If we got the McNabb that was playing in Philly as recently as last year, combined with a consistent running game we'd be rolling. However if McNabb is having his worst year as a Redskin, are people really suggesting he forgot how to play football in 8 months??

[Taylor4Life]

I highly suggest that for those that get the time, check out the highlights for last year's Eagles games. It's really quite simple... in games in which McNabb has time in the pocket, he lights up the opposing defenses. In games in which he has little time, the Eagles are unable to score many points .

Check out the Oakland game for an example of how McNabb played when under a lot of pressure, look familiar?.

We've tried to make up for the O-Line's inability to give McNabb in the pocket by calling bootleg plays and roll outs, but the defenses have now taken away that option.

If we really focus 100% of our effort this next off season to upgrading the offensive line, then we'll be fine next year with McNabb.

As far as this year goes, with this offensive line I would highly suggest that we all as fans temper our expectations for this season's outcome. We are 8-8 at best with that group.

[Frostx08]

On another note, Westbrook did very well with McNabb catching balls out of the backfield. Was Westbrook catching short dump offs or was he running deep routes, does anyone remember? It's hard to imagine that Westbrook made a living from short passes from McNabb based on what we've seen so far... Maybe a Philly fan can chime in.

Westbrook wasn't a pure RB. But he did all of the above..meaning deep routes, short routes, backfield, etc. It was a great help but with no running game it was also a handicap

[Homercles82]

Even if it comes to it where Mcnabb doesn't want to be back here next year. We will almost certainly franchise him to ensure that if he leaves we get something back for it. I could hardly believe that Mike and Bruce would put themselves into a position that is going to make them seem like fools. Even if we only get a 2nd or 3rd back for him so be it. It was worth the chance to try and field a competitive team over the next 2-3 years. If the Mcnabb experiment fails i think then you will see us move to the more traditional rebuild. Prolly see AL traded at the end of the year and other free agents leave rather than resign them at this point. Surely rocky is worth a 5th comp pick.

In another thread it was mentioned that the franchise tag may not be a part of the new CBA. I hope it is.

[Frostx08]

I hate to say I told you so, but I've said all along that McNabb SUCKS! You should hear all the Philly sports radio laughing and saying they knew he was a "good" QB at best, not great. I posted the "McNabb Not The Answer" thread in the beginning of the season and am now laughing at all of you who thought he would bring the SB to Washington! Ahhh! Ha! Ha! Ha!

Lol of course they're laughing. They want nothing more than to see McNabb fail so that they may feel justification

The only problem with that is, there's something called the last laugh. McNabb's career...wherever it ends up can go different ways depending on his situation

If Philly fans were really honest with you....and less hateful, they'd admit that the McNabb playing for you isn't the McNabb that played for them and something's up. If McNabb was comfortable with the offense...combined with a more consistent running game and O-line, we'd probably be 6-2...if not 7-1

Replacing Joey Galloway would help too.

[McD5]

I disagree, and believe they have turned on Shanahan.

[scott.sharrer]

Lol of course they're laughing. They want nothing more than to see McNabb fail so that they may feel justification

The only problem with that is, there's something called the last laugh. McNabb's career...wherever it ends up can go different ways depending on his situation

If Philly fans were really honest with you....and less hateful, they'd admit that the McNabb playing for you isn't the McNabb that played for them and something's up. If McNabb was comfortable with the offense...combined with a more consistent running game and O-line, we'd probably be 6-2...if not 7-1

Replacing Joey Galloway would help too.

You can't judge any player on 8 games in a new system with all new teammates. he needs to adjust still remember he played in the same system his entire career at Philly. We get a better OL and I would put money on McNabb being a top QB in the NFL

[Tweedr01]

You are so cool

His post count is 7 after he started the thread "McNabb is not the answer"....must've been a great thread...

When I saw his post count, I thought I was looking at his age

[scott.sharrer]

His post count is 7 after he started the thread "McNabb is not the answer"....must've been a great thread...

When I saw his post count, I thought I was looking at his age:movefast:

[Rocky21]

Bye weeks suck.

[rumplestilskin]

Give him time and he will beat you.

With Campbell, the team would likely be 2-6.

with a Good O-Line (including run blocking) the team could be 6-2.

With a reliable kicker the team would be 5-3, maybe 6-2

With McNabb and his dirt balls/overthrows, bad oline, spotty run game and at-best, medicore to bad defense.. they are 4-4.

The could easily finish 10-6 or 4-12.

I like this because I have a hard time with posts that make final predictions based on the latest game either good or bad or doom and gloom predictions based on 50% of the season. The OP says we are finished with McNabb and that he was a mistake and a set back for the franchise. He says this after the biggest offensive team meltdown of the season. If you look at the season from a game by game or situation by situation viewpoint then emotion and frustration is removed. All things considered I think 4-4 is a very fortunate thing because we had good moments and bad moments. McNabb is who he is and its too late to change that. Our record as a team is a reflection of McNabb and that reflection is inconsistancy. Sure he throws the grounders and the overthrows but he also throws the big yardage plays. He has had moments in the past playing for the Eagles when he was sharp overall and that play usually came in November and December so I am not going to make any rash judgement untill such time. It just seems too early to be certain about anything seeing that we still have 8 games to play and 4 in the division.

[IrepDC]

I like how people rag on Campbell even though the team, scheme, and coaching staff he played with last year was far worse(not even CLOSE). In my opinion, we're still 4-4 with him and all the other improvements.

[MustangSteve]

Look what happened on Grossman's first snap. A sack, a fumble and Suh's first NFL TD. It was like having Jason Campbell back for a play.

I don't understand the thought process from some of you.
Thank you!!! We send McNabb on the field with half an offense that didn't even play in the NFL last year, and we expect him to be Payton Manning. Even with his poor play he is ranked 6th in passing yards so why even judge the man with only 8 games in a new system and team. He hasn't burned the league up this season, but he's a big part we are 4-4. McNabb can play better, and when he does, this will be one of them teams nobody wants to face in the playoffs.

[rumplestilskin]

I like how people rag on Campbell even though the team, scheme, and coaching staff he played with last year was far worse(not even CLOSE). In my opinion, we're still 4-4 with him and all the other improvements.

Fair enough. I would agree with that. Campbell may have coughed up a few more fumbles but may also have had fewer INTs. McNabbs play so far has not been a major upgrade but he has potential to be a major upgrade if everything starts clicking. Lets hope.

[Taylor4Life]

I like how people rag on Campbell even though the team, scheme, and coaching staff he played with last year was far worse(not even CLOSE). In my opinion, we're still 4-4 with him and all the other improvements.

I kind of agree, but I don't think this offensive line is any better than last year's, with maybe the exception of Trent Williams.

The fact is that bad offensive line play tends to magnify a quarterback's flaws, while good offensive line play tends to mask them or minimize their effect on the overall outcome of the game. McNabb's flaws are thus on full display, as were Campbell's last year.

[MDstar08]

I'll wait until I even give a hint of speculation that "he won't be back next year"! HTTR!

[The Diesel]

I'll wait until I even give a hint of speculation that "he won't be back next year"! HTTR!

Really? You haven't noticed a "hint of speculation" that he won't be back next year? Really??

And for some others in this thread, nobody is saying he needs to be Peyton Freaking Manning. We just are willing to point out what most impartial observers are coming around to admitting: Donovan McNabb has been below average for a half a season. I hope he turns it around as much as anybody, but it's getting increasingly hard to ignore that he's not able to convert plays that any starting NFL QB should be able to convert.

[MustangSteve]

Really? You haven't noticed a "hint of speculation" that he won't be back next year? Really??

And for some others in this thread, nobody is saying he needs to be Peyton Freaking Manning. We just are willing to point out what most impartial observers are coming around to admitting: Donovan McNabb has been below average for a half a season. I hope he turns it around as much as anybody, but it's getting increasingly hard to ignore that he's not able to convert plays that any starting NFL QB should be able to convert.I will agree with this Diesel, but this entire offense has been in a learning process. DMac has no running game to help, like we all thought he would have had under Shanny, and look at the pressure he's been under this season. Then look at the few weapons he's been given to work with, some of these receivers don't even belong in the league any more, and then down to Keiland Williams as your starting RB? Really, Keiland Williams? We need to get Portis and Torain healthy in order to help McNabb get to the next level. We all know how bad Dmac can be, but we also know how good he can be when he gets it going.

[Woofer]

I have to agree with the people who are saying that we need to give McNabb and the rest of the team some more time. At least until this time next year, after the FO and coaching staff have some time to bring in more of their own choices, and get the O-line stable.

That's our biggest problem. McNabb's throws are inaccurate because he is trying to get rid of it quickly, too quickly, and no one can get things done that way.

I am relaxing about this year. Its a building year.

[scott.sharrer]

I have to agree with the people who are saying that we need to give McNabb and the rest of the team some more time. At least until this time next year, after the FO and coaching staff have some time to bring in more of their own choices, and get the O-line stable.

That's our biggest problem. McNabb's throws are inaccurate because he is trying to get rid of it quickly, too quickly, and no one can get things done that way.

I am relaxing about this year. Its a building year.

Most down to earth common sense post I have seen on this subject.

[texasthunder]

Herm Edwards said it best the other day on ESPN. He said Shanahan knew what he was getting with Mcnabb. And that was a qb who is just not consistent. He will make big plays and he will
make dumb plays. But he is a leader. He also said that Shanahan should have told him he was ineffective in the game and getting pulled. And he was ineffective, for what ever the reasons are, he was ineffective.

Personally I think he deserves the next 8 games, and then reevaluate him then.

[scott.sharrer]

Herm Edwards said it best the other day on ESPN. He said Shanahan knew what he was getting with Mcnabb. And that was a qb who is just not consistent. He will make big plays and he will
make dumb plays. But he is a leader. He also said that Shanahan should have told him he was ineffective in the game and getting pulled. And he was ineffective, for what ever the reasons are, he was ineffective.

Personally I think he deserves the next 8 games, and then reevaluate him then.

I agree with this, but what has Herm Edwards done to be a reliable person to talk on this matter?

[JesseNeckred]

maybe awfully homer of me, but I still believe we haven't even come close to seeing the best this offense can do this season

[Dirt]

Andy Reid didn't own ****.

[bulldog]

McNabb is not the heart of the problem. Yes, the Redskins would be scoring more points with Manning or another elite qb like Rodgers who is in his prime.

But looking at the Redskins offense, there aren't a whole lot of locks for the future here right now.

On the offensive line, Trent Williams is a nice START. You need a franchise LT to anchor the line and the Redskins got that in the 2010 draft. But there are 4 other positions on the line and right now NONE of them is filled by a player drafted by the Redskins. And of the four, 3 are guys that are 32, 32 and 30 years old.

At wide receiver, Santana Moss is 31. Anthony Armstrong is probably better suited to being a #3 receiver. And none of the other WRs even deserve to be on an NFL roster.

In the backfield, Ryan Torain is a solid backup running back. A strong rushing team will have him as the #2. You can get away with him as the starter but then you have to have a line that blocks consistently and the one we have does not. Keiland Williams is nothing special. Clinton Portis is probably at the end of his Redskins career or will be by the last game in 2010.

Besides Williams the only building block on offense is TE Chris Cooley at 28. He is in his prime and should be effective for several additional seasons.

[REEGSKINS]

sometimes he looks like chuck knoblock throwing to first base.

[GoDeep81]

I posted the "McNabb Not The Answer" thread in the beginning of the season and am now laughing at all of you who thought he would bring the SB to Washington! Ahhh! Ha! Ha! Ha!

Nice!! You schooled all 4 poeople who actually expected Dmac to win us a SB this year!! Brilliant I tell ya!! :ols:

On the serious side.. Lets not overlook the fact that our QB plays with no line or running game to speak of.. And with only 2 targets to throw to, we've still been in every game we've played, sans the Rams.. (And if it wasnt for that fluke first 5 mins, I imagine we'd of been in that game as well) But there's no doubt DMac throws some ugly passes, but I bet if you look it up, there's been as many 3rd down drops, as there's been 3rd down balls in the dirt or that didnt touch a recievers hands.. Something to think about..

[Frostx08]

I like how people rag on Campbell even though the team, scheme, and coaching staff he played with last year was far worse(not even CLOSE). In my opinion, we're still 4-4 with him and all the other improvements.

The schedule was also much...much...MUCH easier last year

I understand you're a bit anti-McNabb so I guess I don't expect you to agree. But I simply can't agree that we'd be 4-4 with Campbell...simply because football is like a Chess match and there are several plays I've seen McNabb make that I can't see Campbell making. McNabb may have missed some throws, but this all comes down to probability

So for example let's say you're Campbell and I'm McNabb. You probably would have been sacked even more than last year(hard to believe really). Let's say you drop back...get sacked several times and make some plays several times. The amount of sacks you take will not affect your completion percentage or how bad you may really be doing

Now let's say myself...as McNabb, avoids a sack and misses a throw. Then let's say I avoid a sack again and make a throw. My completion percentage may end up being lower, but that 57-58% completion percentage is better than that 64% completion percentage simply because more OPPORTUNITIES are being made. Instead of a sack...if Mcnabb can avoid several sacks and turn that into a positive play at least 50% of the time, it helps the team

It's exactly why we have more passing yards per game and more ppg than last year...on a tough schedule. When people say our team is that much better last year...my only response to that is new names Does Not equal better. If McNabb can get even more comfortable we'll reap the benefits

[COOLeyCatchTds]

a buddy of mine is an eagles fan and the first thing he said was "get used to balls at your receivers feet." I knew he was serious, but Im a little disappointed at how frequent these throws are, admittedly. But he still has the ability to change games also. Im not giving up on him. Hopefully he's back next year with another offseason to build his line. In the lions game, he didnt stand a chance.

McNabb absolutely has his faults. But he also gives us the best chance this team has had to win in 20 years. Patience.

[COOLeyCatchTds]

That's assuming he's the QB that plays in November.

I'll bet on it.

[KillBill26]

His point - with which I agree - is that McNabb is so inaccurate on 1st and 2nd down that he's putting them in these difficult situations on 3rd and Shanahan is fed up with it. He's missing easy throws. It's undeniable at this point. Talk about the O-line all you want, and yes it's a problem. But even when he has time he's missing throws that he needs to make.



McNabb has struggled, no doubt, but so has every facet of the offense. The first drive vs. Chi comes to mind, McNabb drops back, and fires consecutive accurate passes which bounce of WR hands. Careless drops by Cooley and Moss/Armstrong have killed big drives too. The penetration up the gut seems unstoppable at times, and RBs (after Portis) seem uncapable of picking up blitzes. McNabb shares some of the blame for sure, but the offense can't get in a rhythm and is struggling on so many levels, it is not as black and white as most people would like to believe. Skins don't draft Jake Locker and head to the Super Bowl. So back McNabb the rest of the way (or John Beck up to you) and focus just as much on fixing OL, bitz pick up, and playmakers stepping up in big spots and see if this offense (only 8 games in) can start gelling.

[ncr2h]

The schedule was also much...much...MUCH easier last year

I understand you're a bit anti-McNabb so I guess I don't expect you to agree. But I simply can't agree that we'd be 4-4 with Campbell...simply because football is like a Chess match and there are several plays I've seen McNabb make that I can't see Campbell making. McNabb may have missed some throws, but this all comes down to probability

So for example let's say you're Campbell and I'm McNabb. You probably would have been sacked even more than last year(hard to believe really). Let's say you drop back...get sacked several times and make some plays several times. The amount of sacks you take will not affect your completion percentage or how bad you may really be doing

Now let's say myself...as McNabb, avoids a sack and misses a throw. Then let's say I avoid a sack again and make a throw. My completion percentage may end up being lower, but that 57-58% completion percentage is better than that 64% completion percentage simply because more OPPORTUNITIES are being made. Instead of a sack...if Mcnabb can avoid several sacks and turn that into a positive play at least 50% of the time, it helps the team

It's exactly why we have more passing yards per game and more ppg than last year...on a tough schedule. When people say our team is that much better last year...my only response to that is new names Does Not equal better. If McNabb can get even more comfortable we'll reap the benefits

This armchair analysis is great in theory, but when presented in the face of how terribly McNabb has played this year, it doesn't hold up. McNabb has avoided sacks. A few. McNabb has also tripped over his own feet while making his drop. He has done that at least 4 times. So I don't think Campbell would take any more sacks than McNabb.

Campbell doesn't hit the downfield stuff like McNabb has (sometimes) been. However, he also isn't the one chucking 50 yard bombs on 3rd and short. Campbell makes fairly accurate throws on short and intermediate routes. That would be huge for our offense right now.

I am convinced that we would be 4-4 with Campbell right now.

Don't take that as Campbell praise. That's McNabb bashing. McNabb has been AWFUL out there. Absolutely awful. We'd probably be around 4-4 with Rex Grossman, assuming Grossman had the intangibles to get the other players playing as hard as McNabb's got them playing.

Don't get me started on McNabb guys. He has played so ****ing badly I almost can't believe it. I know he's a good QB. But can you guys admit for a second that he's probably in the bottom tier of starting QBs thusfar. Thusfar. Not talent-wise, but execution-wise. He has played horribly.

I aint asking him to be Peyton Manning. I'm just asking for you to do your job. And your job is to put up points and make plays and he just hasn't done ANY of that the past 2 weeks. He's been awful.

[ncr2h]

McNabb is not the heart of the problem. Yes, the Redskins would be scoring more points with Manning or another elite qb like Rodgers who is in his prime.

But looking at the Redskins offense, there aren't a whole lot of locks for the future here right now.

On the offensive line, Trent Williams is a nice START. You need a franchise LT to anchor the line and the Redskins got that in the 2010 draft. But there are 4 other positions on the line and right now NONE of them is filled by a player drafted by the Redskins. And of the four, 3 are guys that are 32, 32 and 30 years old.

At wide receiver, Santana Moss is 31. Anthony Armstrong is probably better suited to being a #3 receiver. And none of the other WRs even deserve to be on an NFL roster.

In the backfield, Ryan Torain is a solid backup running back. A strong rushing team will have him as the #2. You can get away with him as the starter but then you have to have a line that blocks consistently and the one we have does not. Keiland Williams is nothing special. Clinton Portis is probably at the end of his Redskins career or will be by the last game in 2010.

Besides Williams the only building block on offense is TE Chris Cooley at 28. He is in his prime and should be effective for several additional seasons.

I think most would disagree with you.

Anthony Armstrong is a #3 on a championship-caliber team. For an average team, I don't see any reason why he couldn't be your #2.

And I think that's the theme of your GMing here. We aint asking for all-world talent. We're asking, "is it McNabb, or is it the talent around him?" And I think it's fairly obvious that a huge part of it is McNabb.

Torain is a solid building block for the future. He runs hard as ****, picks up yards after contact, and makes the zone reads very nicely. He also made some good plays in pass protection, and delivered 3 points on a silver platter right before the half last week with the help of Brandon Banks.

Which leads me to my next point. Brandon Banks is probably a top 5 return man right now. And when you've got a guy like him back there, it does a lot of things for your team. You get great field position, time and time again (which our offense totally squandered time and again). Sometimes you get points. You have to win those games when you get points from your return units.

Laron Landry...didn't see you mention him there. He's playing very well, and will likely go to the Pro Bowl if not be an All Pro selection this season. We got another guy on the team that's leading the league in picks, but eveybody's talking about Landry and not Hall. That's how good he's been.

Deangelo Hall. He's a unique talent. He gets more points for your team from the CB position than probably anybody in the league over the span of his career. I'd say he's Ed Reed-lite, in that respect. Yeah, he has some weaknesses, but I'll be damned if 32 teams wouldn't love a corner who is good for 1-2 defensive TDs per year.

Orakpo. Didn't see him on your list.

I mean, are you kidding me? Do I have to go on? And one last thing. Our offensive line isn't that bad. It's much better than last season. Last season, we had Clinton Portis having to make multiple guys miss just to get back to the LOS. We had Jason Campbell having to change the mechanics of his 5 step drop to anticipate that he would already have pressure when he hit his back foot. We had Heyer in FOR THE WHOLE SEASON. That's like 10 false start penalties right there.

So, in summary...I know we all want McNabb to be good. But we don't have to dump on the players around him when CLEARLY he is one of the biggest issues. He has played terrible football back there for the past 3 and a half games. No need to make excuses for him. He just needs to get up and do a better job the rest of the year.

[Hubbs]

I have no idea what media outlets the OP listens to, but, um, everyone's still blaming Shanahan. They're saying his move was nuts. Some are already calling for his head. (Bad idea, IMHO.)

By the way, we have a ****ing horrific offensive line. That might be playing a small factor.

[scruffylookin]

McNabb has been awful this season. He was good for about three quarters against Houston. Other than that he's been a huge bust.

By any measure he's a failure.

Two of the biggest that point to how well a qb is doing, third down conversion and redzone touchdowns, we are awful.

Add to that McNabb coming up small in crunch time you have a huge mistake in giving two high draft picks for him.

And I don't want to hear about the oline excuse or crap receivers excuse, at least not by the JC bashers, to defend McNabb. Jason had the same crap around him and played far better. If Jason had a d and special teams that gave him the points/field position that McNabb has enjoyed this season we'd be at least 4-4 if not better.

I'm glad that the focus is back where it should be, on how bad McNabb has been and not about some babies in the media and fans who did nothing but cry like wusses that the "great" McNabb was benched by the "evil" and "arrogant" Mike Shanahan.

[Frostx08]

McNabb has been awful this season. He was good for about three quarters against Houston. Other than that he's been a huge bust.

By any measure he's a failure.

Two of the biggest that point to how well a qb is doing, third down conversion and redzone touchdowns, we are awful.

Add to that McNabb coming up small in crunch time you have a huge mistake in giving two high draft picks for him.

And I don't want to hear about the oline excuse or crap receivers excuse, at least not by the JC bashers, to defend McNabb. Jason had the same crap around him and played far better. If Jason had a d and special teams that gave him the points/field position that McNabb has enjoyed this season we'd be at least 4-4 if not better.

I'm glad that the focus is back where it should be, on how bad McNabb has been and not about some babies in the media and fans who did nothing but cry like wusses that the "great" McNabb was benched by the "evil" and "arrogant" Mike Shanahan.

I think Jason Campbell can and will have success with a good O-line in the future. I think McNabb will have much more success with another team. People say our team is better than last year on Rushing, Special teams and defense which is kind of short sighted if you look at ALL 8 games

The problem is...despite how much our offense has struggled this year....McNabb has at least attempted to make a play instead of taking the sack. That's why we have more ppg and passing yards per game than last year...

If McNabb wanted to protect his stats...he would simply take the sack and only throw when he can...instead of breaking tackles and trying to make a play

Besides that...I won't really challenge the rest of your post. Not because I think you're right but rather...to completely dismiss it as it being all on McNabb is kind of a narrow scapegoating mindset to argue with in truth.

[Frostx08]

This armchair analysis is great in theory, but when presented in the face of how terribly McNabb has played this year, it doesn't hold up. McNabb has avoided sacks. A few. McNabb has also tripped over his own feet while making his drop. He has done that at least 4 times. So I don't think Campbell would take any more sacks than McNabb.

Campbell doesn't hit the downfield stuff like McNabb has (sometimes) been. However, he also isn't the one chucking 50 yard bombs on 3rd and short. Campbell makes fairly accurate throws on short and intermediate routes. That would be huge for our offense right now.

I am convinced that we would be 4-4 with Campbell right now.

Don't take that as Campbell praise. That's McNabb bashing. McNabb has been AWFUL out there. Absolutely awful. We'd probably be around 4-4 with Rex Grossman, assuming Grossman had the intangibles to get the other players playing as hard as McNabb's got them playing.

Don't get me started on McNabb guys. He has played so ****ing badly I almost can't believe it. I know he's a good QB. But can you guys admit for a second that he's probably in the bottom tier of starting QBs thusfar. Thusfar. Not talent-wise, but execution-wise. He has played horribly.

I aint asking him to be Peyton Manning. I'm just asking for you to do your job. And your job is to put up points and make plays and he just hasn't done ANY of that the past 2 weeks. He's been awful.

Your comments are disingenuous at best, especially your 1st paragraph

One game in which he tripped(or Rabach tripped him) is one thing. To say he's only avoided a "few"...when even NFL Network showed him avoiding 3-4 alone in the Colts game is dishonest. It tells me that you're looking at the worst of McNabb instead of being fair and balanced. Either that..or you're basing your perception off what's happened in the past couple of games. Either way...I can look at all 8 games with good memory and have been pointing out the sacks avoided each week. If you can say JC would do that...then there's not much to say to that

McNabb does lead the league in big yardage plays...but again...you're being disingenuous. He's hitting Cooley 64% of the time and Moss 67% of the time. Unless you want to argue with me that Cooley and Moss have been going deep, then that argument holds little merit. The receiver McNabb has been missing constantly is Joey Galloway, at an awful below 30% rate. You can take your judgement from that if you will

I am convinced that we would be 2-6 with Campbell right now. I think Campbell is a good Qb who may thrive with weapons and an O-line...but I do not see him doing well on a schedule that is a 1000x harder than last years. I don't see us winning the Packers game with Campbell for example...the same way even London Fletcher doesn't feel we would have won that game with him. McNabb may not have been the sole reason we've been winning games...but i see the contribution he makes. Winning football games is also about game planning and teams seem to be more concerned with taking away the big play rather than stopping the running game

Grossman is a Qb that has more interception than Tds in his career and that doesn't even include fumbles. His completion percentage has been 54% since you obviously care about that kind of thing. Unless he's drastically improved...despite what you say you are indeed McNabb bashing

When I look at the season stats...I say to myself that yes, McNabb has played poorly. When I re-watch the games, I see an offense overall that has been struggling and yet, McNabb is becoming the scapegoat.

[Frostx08]

I think most would disagree with you.

Anthony Armstrong is a #3 on a championship-caliber team. For an average team, I don't see any reason why he couldn't be your #2.

And I think that's the theme of your GMing here. We aint asking for all-world talent. We're asking, "is it McNabb, or is it the talent around him?" And I think it's fairly obvious that a huge part of it is McNabb.

Torain is a solid building block for the future. He runs hard as ****, picks up yards after contact, and makes the zone reads very nicely. He also made some good plays in pass protection, and delivered 3 points on a silver platter right before the half last week with the help of Brandon Banks.

Which leads me to my next point. Brandon Banks is probably a top 5 return man right now. And when you've got a guy like him back there, it does a lot of things for your team. You get great field position, time and time again (which our offense totally squandered time and again). Sometimes you get points. You have to win those games when you get points from your return units.

Laron Landry...didn't see you mention him there. He's playing very well, and will likely go to the Pro Bowl if not be an All Pro selection this season. We got another guy on the team that's leading the league in picks, but eveybody's talking about Landry and not Hall. That's how good he's been.

Deangelo Hall. He's a unique talent. He gets more points for your team from the CB position than probably anybody in the league over the span of his career. I'd say he's Ed Reed-lite, in that respect. Yeah, he has some weaknesses, but I'll be damned if 32 teams wouldn't love a corner who is good for 1-2 defensive TDs per year.

Orakpo. Didn't see him on your list.

I mean, are you kidding me? Do I have to go on? And one last thing. Our offensive line isn't that bad. It's much better than last season. Last season, we had Clinton Portis having to make multiple guys miss just to get back to the LOS. We had Jason Campbell having to change the mechanics of his 5 step drop to anticipate that he would already have pressure when he hit his back foot. We had Heyer in FOR THE WHOLE SEASON. That's like 10 false start penalties right there.

So, in summary...I know we all want McNabb to be good. But we don't have to dump on the players around him when CLEARLY he is one of the biggest issues. He has played terrible football back there for the past 3 and a half games. No need to make excuses for him. He just needs to get up and do a better job the rest of the year.

You're making up your own facts/bias...

Armstrong a #3 on a championship caliber team?? :ols:...are you serious?? What has Armstrong done for you to definitively say that? Yet you go out of your way to bash McNabb??

Armstrong is a receiver with potential. He's had up and down moments like the rest of this team...considering he's screwed up what should have easily been 3 passing TDs. Armstrong would be a 2nd stringer on other teams...a receiver that the coach's would say is still "developing". Either that or he'd be a 4th receiver

To say "a huge part of it is McNabb" tells me that in just a short year you think the team is better than it is. Kind of delusional with all due respect...several of our players would not be starters for other teams. The guy had a 93 Qb rating last year(without a running game)...he has a 76 with us. He didn't just forget to play football...the team just has a lot of holes and he's struggling in the system but people are convincing themselves that the team is better than it is

Torain was missing in the Packers game, the Lions game, and the Rams game. Our running game in general was missing for 5 out of 8 games this year. He also hasn't been making long yardage runs...and I have seen on at least 4-5 occasions where McNabb would get us down the field only to hand it off to Torain or Portis.

Also keep in mind we didn't have special teams for the whole season...so it's not like we've been thriving off that for most of the time..

Laron Landry is a beast. We can agree on that.

DeAngelo Hall has been good LATELY...but he's also costed us most of the games before that with blown coverage. That's not opinion...that's fact. It's why I'm amazed at how perceptions change from week to week...a guy could get burned for most of the season but let him be on fire for a week or two and suddenly he's a top CB, which is ridiculous. I'm not a Ravens fan and I'm almost appalled that you'd mention him and Ed Reed in the same sentence

Orakpo is a beast...give you that

So that said...how is our O-line better? Because of new names?? :ols:. You don't get a better O-line based off new people...you get a better O-line from analyzing and watching them. The O-line has not shown improvement from last year..that's just what it is. Last year we also played against a lot of teams that suck...so maybe this O-line would have looked better last year. And furthermore, Heyer was in for at least 1/2 of our games if I'm not mistaken. Are you forgetting Trent WIlliams injuries?? Under Heyer we had like 3 false start penalties in the Rams game..about 2 more late in the Texans game, and some other games following that.

Wanting McNabb to play well isn't gonna automatically gonna make him play well. I think the difference between you and others is people are trying to give a fair assessment instead of making McNabb the easy scapegoat that he is. If you think he's our BIGGEST issues holding back our oh so talented team then it's kind of hard to argue with that kind of logic. I don't think there are much people around the NFL who would say we have a talented Redskins team

[texasthunder]

I do love the comments about how Rabach tripped Mcnabb.

Cmon guys, the man is a center, he calls the blocking assignments, checks the defensive line, snaps the ball, then has to block.
If he is stepping backwards fast enough to trip Mcnabb, then that tells me Mcnabb is too damn slow in his drop back, or he doesnt have his feet set right at the snap.
And fwiw, one of thsoe trips in the first series against the Lions was not on Rabach, I replayed it and Mcnabb tripped over his own two feet. It was the second one,
so maybe he was trying to move his feet too fast, I dont know.

I tried to find a picture of Mcnabb under center with the Skins, but I only found one with him as an eagle, playing the skins.
Notice how much distance is between the centers feet and McNabbs.
I cant believe an athlete such as mcnabb would not have fast enough feet as to not get tangled with the center.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSuyL5wY9XPFcxHAfBR0KZkBNS5Rg58T yIIquRvas7cM_Vzu-A&t=1&usg=__UI4xQAnYtibxK9DdSewzAVZLPy8=

Now I am not saying that Rabach is a great center, but surely Mcnabb is quicker then Rabach.

[flexxskins]

McNabb is not the heart of the problem. Yes, the Redskins would be scoring more points with Manning or another elite qb like Rodgers who is in his prime.

But looking at the Redskins offense, there aren't a whole lot of locks for the future here right now.

On the offensive line, Trent Williams is a nice START. You need a franchise LT to anchor the line and the Redskins got that in the 2010 draft. But there are 4 other positions on the line and right now NONE of them is filled by a player drafted by the Redskins. And of the four, 3 are guys that are 32, 32 and 30 years old.

At wide receiver, Santana Moss is 31. Anthony Armstrong is probably better suited to being a #3 receiver. And none of the other WRs even deserve to be on an NFL roster.

In the backfield, Ryan Torain is a solid backup running back. A strong rushing team will have him as the #2. You can get away with him as the starter but then you have to have a line that blocks consistently and the one we have does not. Keiland Williams is nothing special. Clinton Portis is probably at the end of his Redskins career or will be by the last game in 2010.

Besides Williams the only building block on offense is TE Chris Cooley at 28. He is in his prime and should be effective for several additional seasons.:applause:Excellent quote.

However, you left out one of our best young offensive weapons being Fred Davis.

Oh ncr2h,

it's obvious that you didn't notice this, but bulldog was referring to offense specifically in his quote. You went on to mention names that he left out like Landry, Hall and Orakpo.

[HA1LV1CT0RY]

Seems a lot like last seasons problems but since his name is Mcnabb hes getting more excuses from the fans, but the not the coach.

Campbell with no O-line, third or fourth system?, no running game, and no coaches to pull him for things out of his control. Not comparing either QB or on the JC bandwagon, but I think without help no QB can function is this system. And people just have waited longer to start the cross burnings because our QB now has a #5 on his back and they thought a new coach and essentially team would "fix" an O-line in a season

[Enter Apotheosis]

I agree, McNabb has been innacurate, but somehow he ended up 6th in the NFL in passing yards with weapons that's never even played in this league last year and a 50 year old WR. Armstrong, K Williams, R Torain and Galloway. Give this man a better oline and receivers and watch his game take off to another level.

That's not a particularly valid excuse when you account for the fact that guys like Armstrong and Torain are good players. Where they were last season has no bearing on what they're doing this season. Hell, even if you insist on blaming the talent around McNabb just look at some of the guys he threw to early in his career. Most of those guys didn't do anything after the Eagles inevitably let them go and yet McNabb still looked good.

It's obvious that the poor play by the oline is having an effect on him but he's still missing some genuinely easy throws and making terrible decisions even when he does have time.

[Jeeb]

It's obvious that the poor play by the oline is having an effect on him but he's still missing some genuinely easy throws and making terrible decisions even when he does have time.

Don't forget his "drop back to punt throws" where he overthrows Galloway by about 10 yds and a safety inevitably catches it.

[Frostx08]

I do love the comments about how Rabach tripped Mcnabb.

.

It's very possible it was McNabb's fault. However are you saying that centers never trip their Qbs? Reminds me of that fumbled snap in the Green Bay game. It was way higher than most snaps yet people argued it was McNabb's fault. So is everything on McNabb??


Seems a lot like last seasons problems but since his name is Mcnabb hes getting more excuses from the fans, but the not the coach.

Campbell with no O-line, third or fourth system?, no running game, and no coaches to pull him for things out of his control. Not comparing either QB or on the JC bandwagon, but I think without help no QB can function is this system. And people just have waited longer to start the cross burnings because our QB now has a #5 on his back and they thought a new coach and essentially team would "fix" an O-line in a season

People gave Campbell 3 years...people gave McNabb 8 weeks and now with the exception of a few most are against him. I do think Campbell can have success with better surrounding talent...and I think McNabb can have success if he's comfortable with the team/system and doesn't have to throw to a 40 year old receiver

[konga2145]

This armchair analysis is great in theory, but when presented in the face of how terribly McNabb has played this year, it doesn't hold up. McNabb has avoided sacks. A few. McNabb has also tripped over his own feet while making his drop. He has done that at least 4 times. So I don't think Campbell would take any more sacks than McNabb.

Campbell doesn't hit the downfield stuff like McNabb has (sometimes) been. However, he also isn't the one chucking 50 yard bombs on 3rd and short. Campbell makes fairly accurate throws on short and intermediate routes. That would be huge for our offense right now.

I am convinced that we would be 4-4 with Campbell right now.

Don't take that as Campbell praise. That's McNabb bashing. McNabb has been AWFUL out there. Absolutely awful. We'd probably be around 4-4 with Rex Grossman, assuming Grossman had the intangibles to get the other players playing as hard as McNabb's got them playing.

Don't get me started on McNabb guys. He has played so ****ing badly I almost can't believe it. I know he's a good QB. But can you guys admit for a second that he's probably in the bottom tier of starting QBs thusfar. Thusfar. Not talent-wise, but execution-wise. He has played horribly.

I aint asking him to be Peyton Manning. I'm just asking for you to do your job. And your job is to put up points and make plays and he just hasn't done ANY of that the past 2 weeks. He's been awful. In all fairness our center caused a few of those.

[Taylor4Life]

And one last thing. Our offensive line isn't that bad.

One of the silliest quotes I've seen here all week. Have you actually went back and looked at some plays from the Lions game? This line doesn't just lack physical talent, but they are just football stupid getting faked out at the LOS, missing one one one assignments, even Chris Cooley said when the team looked at the film they were just embarrased.

[IrepDC]

Your comments are disingenuous at best, especially your 1st paragraph

One game in which he tripped(or Rabach tripped him) is one thing. To say he's only avoided a "few"...when even NFL Network showed him avoiding 3-4 alone in the Colts game is dishonest. It tells me that you're looking at the worst of McNabb instead of being fair and balanced. Either that..or you're basing your perception off what's happened in the past couple of games. Either way...I can look at all 8 games with good memory and have been pointing out the sacks avoided each week. If you can say JC would do that...then there's not much to say to that.

Come on man, Campbell was hardly a statue in the pocket. He doesn't have the ability McNabb has, but he avoids plenty of sacks. He took so many sacks because his Tackles were Levi Jones and Stephon Heyer.. soak that in. Seriously though, watch any Raiders game and Campbell is dodging sacks too.

Also, I'd like you to elaborate on how our schedule has been so much harder this year. I'm talking specifically about the defenses McNabb has faced. I'm not rejecting your statement, I would just like you to elaborate on "much much harder," because I can easily explain how the situation McNabb is in is "much much better."

[ExoDus84]

Our offense, as a whole, needs an infusion of talent, especially on the O-line. There aren't many QB's who can succeed behind a turnstile offensive line. Our offense is predicated on medium range and long range throws, with short throws typically being an outlet. How can you expect McNabb to put up all pro numbers every week if he's not even getting 3 seconds to throw the damn ball? Not to mention, Mcnabb actually LEADS THE LEAGUE in passes of 50+ yards. He's doing about as much as he can with what he has around him. He could certainly be more accurate, but the man is a good QB. He needs more time to feel comfortable in this offense and develop his timing with his receivers, but he's still a vast upgrade over Campbell. Some of you forget that.

[redskins55]

I hadn't heard the tide shift yet in my neck of the woods. And MCNabb's looking better than any other QB we've had here in the last decade so we have nothing to complain about. He's in a new freakin system with hand me down running backs, receivers, and o-linemen. I cant remember looking at the stats and seeing a Redskins quarterback in the top 10 in passing yards this late in the season. With this scrap heap of players none the less.... Donovan will be the next Kurt Warner mark my words... After Kurt left NYG people thought he was washed up but he actually went to a team with real talent and got the job done!

[36HAMMER]

and we care why? the sports media has become like the political media, all bitter and fault finding and i don't like it.I don't expect them to be homers but they don't like calm seas and goodtimes.If there isn't a problem they will manufacture one and thats the trueth, czaban is like that.All they want is to stir things up over and over again adnaseum.how many here have practically vomited from them hash hash and rehashing something to death ?we all have, problem this time is the head coach brought this one all on himself.He should have just been honest that he was angry with the int and wanted to try something.we all would have understood that, i mean Mcnabb hasn't played very well the last 3 games bad throws and descions and all.But with him you are never out of a game.The same cannot be said bout any of our other qb's.And you give him a good oline and we are leading this division and having a ball.the front office and head coach are to blame for this.They knew what the problem was and failed to adiquately address it.Hicks is fine and Jamaal was the right choice.It's not their fault his hip is still bothering him and Trent is a bonafide baller.they just didn't get a center and another guard.loosing Mike hurt and i realize that rabach is smart and knows all the line calls and does that part well.But physically he no longer has the ability to play at this level and really hasn't for the last couple of years.i have heard from Doc that he likes the fact that the defensive coaches have made adjustments to fit the scheme to their players.Shanahan may need to do that some but can't completely because he lacks the players to adjust with.

[Chachie]

- Cant we give this a FULL season! Crap!....two years ago we were 6-2 and everyone was lovin us, callin Campbell an MVP candidate and then it all went down hill....there is time to turn this around, give it a CHANCE.



Huh? That's got to be the craziest thing I've ever heard. Imagine being "patient" or allowing a team time to "develop" and "find an identity." Absurd. Do you know where you are right now?

[bulldog]

Gibbs during his first coaching stint would not have changed quarterbacks with 2 minutes left in the game against Detroit unless McNabb was too injured to play. He stayed with some players a bit too long, but that loyalty was paid back in spades by his veterans who never gave up or gave him less than 100%.

It was a mistake clear and simple. Forget the media. We have all been around long enough to know Rex Grossman didn't give this team the best chance to win. For all of his 'book' knowledge of the offense he has thrown NINE passes in 2 years in Kyle Shanahan's system and has NEVER run a two minute drill in the scheme.


If Donovan McNabb is a mistake, it is one of Mike Shanahan's own making, he can't put this one on anyone else. Mike wanted #5 here. He traded the picks.

And now we learn the staff doesn't like McNabb's footwork and mechanics throwing the ball?

You've got to be kidding me.

After watching 10 years of available tape on McNabb's NFL career I can't believe Shanahan and Son couldn't evaluate McNabb and his suitability to play in the scheme being installed here.

I hope this isn't heading down the road of the Jason Taylor acquisition where Jason was here for a year and then moved on while we suffered the loss of a #2 draft pick because the Redskins wanted to play him at DE in a 4-3 and he was ill-suited to that assignment.

[Mackdaddydean]

I guess the thing that makes little sense to me is that we put together two really long really great drives against Indy and then when we are against the Lions it looks like we have never even played in this system. It's just so freakin' strange, I don't know who to blame.

[konga2145]

Gibbs during his first coaching stint would not have changed quarterbacks with 2 minutes left in the game against Detroit unless McNabb was too injured to play. He stayed with some players a bit too long, but that loyalty was paid back in spades by his veterans who never gave up or gave him less than 100%.

It was a mistake clear and simple. Forget the media. We have all been around long enough to know Rex Grossman didn't give this team the best chance to win. For all of his 'book' knowledge of the offense he has thrown NINE passes in 2 years in Kyle Shanahan's system and has NEVER run a two minute drill in the scheme.


If Donovan McNabb is a mistake, it is one of Mike Shanahan's own making, he can't put this one on anyone else. Mike wanted #5 here. He traded the picks.

And now we learn the staff doesn't like McNabb's footwork and mechanics throwing the ball?

You've got to be kidding me.

After watching 10 years of available tape on McNabb's NFL career I can't believe Shanahan and Son couldn't evaluate McNabb and his suitability to play in the scheme being installed here.

I hope this isn't heading down the road of the Jason Taylor acquisition where Jason was here for a year and then moved on while we suffered the loss of a #2 draft pick because the Redskins wanted to play him at DE in a 4-3 and he was ill-suited to that assignment. Like to know where you heard our couch say he was unhappy with Mcnabbs footwork and mechanics

[bulldog]

the Lions have a physical defensive front, the Colts don't. Mathis and Freeney are speed rushers but Indy doesn't have anyone like Suh up the gut to disrupt the passing game.

the Redskins ran into a similar situation in the Rams game where the offensive line was gashed by a young and strong DL that Spagnuolo is bringing along.

it is a talent gap up front, at OC and the OG positions.

and it needs to be addressed before this offense will take off, regardless of who the quarterback is.

[Newera]

I like how people rag on Campbell even though the team, scheme, and coaching staff he played with last year was far worse(not even CLOSE). In my opinion, we're still 4-4 with him and all the other improvements.

Still taking about Jason, eh.

[Newera]

I guess the thing that makes little sense to me is that we put together two really long really great drives against Indy and then when we are against the Lions it looks like we have never even played in this system. It's just so freakin' strange, I don't know who to blame.

That's the frustration the Shanahan;s are having with Donovan. Two great drives versus Indy. But two terrible possessions with the game on the line. Then followed by boneheaded plays versus Chicago. Got lucky on the one pick. Then the same thing happened in Detroit. Throws pick. Then on last possession before he was pulled, instead of trying to get first downs, Donovan is throwing bombs. The Shanny's got fed up and benched him. It's been a process. They've made their point: They will sit Donovan if his play doesn't improve.

[Butch007]

If the Redskins pulled the trigger on Vincent Jackson or Randy Moss and drafted a young running back in this past year's draft a lot of problems would clear themselves up for the rest of the season. Every defense knows what to do with the Redskins offense: Single cover the mediocre receivers, keep bodies in the middle of the field and/or send an extra rusher. With Jackson or Moss teams would at least play honest and set up a 2-Deep zone on every down opening up the middle of the field for higher percentage passing options and running the ball. The F.O. has had opportunities to improve the team twice and squandered them. Just to think the Redskins could have had Jackson and Moss at this point and no can say that wouldn't have changed the teams fortunes to the positive in a major way. Screw the past...With a franchise QB that just needs good receivers it's worth the gamble every time.

[bulldog]

Smith was not going to trade Jackson for anything approaching reasonable cost. We saw that bear itself out when Seattle and Minnesota couldn't shake him loose before the trade deadline.

Moss would have been a 3 month rental. Would he have improved things? Yes, IF he decided he wanted to play. And given Shanahan's dealings with other 'vested' veterans like Haynesworth and now McNabb I don't know that having another wildcard around Redskins Park would have been a net positive.

[ncr2h]

One of the silliest quotes I've seen here all week. Have you actually went back and looked at some plays from the Lions game? This line doesn't just lack physical talent, but they are just football stupid getting faked out at the LOS, missing one one one assignments, even Chris Cooley said when the team looked at the film they were just embarrased.


See this is the exact ****ing problem with the "GMs" on this site. To be a decent offensive line, it doesn't mean every single week you dominate the **** out of the other team's DL. Detroit has an excellent group of players at D line. Yeah, we got manhandled. That doesn't mean our line is bad.

The ExtremeSkins talent evaluator / excuse contingent always complains about the lack of talent on this team. The REST of us are asking the following question:

Does our team SUCK, or are they at least decent?

You guys seem to keep harping on the fact that a certain player or unit isn't elite means that that unit sucks. No. Torain isn't an elite RB. But he's certainly shown himself to be at least a decent runner. He makes people miss. He breaks tackles. He's taken over games for portions of time. How is he not at least decent? Yet all I hear about is he's some scrub because he has barely played at all. Use your eyes!

Santana Moss, Chris Cooley, Torain, Armstrong, Sellers, Williams, Rabach, Brown...yeah, some of these guys aren't elite players, but they're not exactly the trash you guys have been telling us they are. They are solid players.

So, now that we've gotten that out of the way...why is it so hard to admit that Mcnabb has been terrible at QB this season? The Redskins aren't the wasteland of talent you guys have tried to convince us they are. He's missing open guys. He's tripping over his own ****ing feet, creating sacks. He's often not been on the same page as his WRs. He's missing reads at the line of scrimmage, resulting in multiple instances of unblocked defenders getting a free run at the QB unbeknownst to Mcnabb, his clock management has been poor (timeouts called in the 2nd half to avoid delay of game penalty on 3rd and 10+ while not even in enemy territory, delay of game penalties, not getting the team set up quickly enough to give the defense a chance to show their hand, etc.).

I mean...he's done a couple of good things. He's lifted the confidence of a lot of our players. He's made some huge plays (although I would contend that for the last 4 weeks he has missed on far too many of these). He's avoided some sacks and created yardage with his feet. But seriously, I'm reaching to find anything else he's done...

[TheShredder]

DM5 will be one and done with the Skins. He doesn't fit with Coach. That's not good considering the price of doing business with a Division rival. Philly obviously won that one and DM5 is not the clutch QB that can win the 2-minute drill. He's no John Elway and he is also not the QB for a Shanahan coached offense.

How about a Cutler for McNabb trade? Anything is possible at this point. All in all I see him as one and done.

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

More panicking I see.

I'll see you guys in one week or so.

[maskedsuperstar]

Shanahan did his job. He gave the media and the fans something too talk about. The man never gives up any information he doesn't want to. That leaves everybody guessing."Donovan won't be here next year. Kyle doesn't get along with McNabb. Shanahan is not being fair." LOL!! Why don't we all just ****ing relax!!!

[texasthunder]

Gibbs during his first coaching stint would not have changed quarterbacks with 2 minutes left in the game against Detroit unless McNabb was too injured to play. He stayed with some players a bit too long, but that loyalty was paid back in spades by his veterans who never gave up or gave him less than 100%.

It was a mistake clear and simple. Forget the media. We have all been around long enough to know Rex Grossman didn't give this team the best chance to win. For all of his 'book' knowledge of the offense he has thrown NINE passes in 2 years in Kyle Shanahan's system and has NEVER run a two minute drill in the scheme.


If Donovan McNabb is a mistake, it is one of Mike Shanahan's own making, he can't put this one on anyone else. Mike wanted #5 here. He traded the picks.

And now we learn the staff doesn't like McNabb's footwork and mechanics throwing the ball?

You've got to be kidding me.

After watching 10 years of available tape on McNabb's NFL career I can't believe Shanahan and Son couldn't evaluate McNabb and his suitability to play in the scheme being installed here.

I hope this isn't heading down the road of the Jason Taylor acquisition where Jason was here for a year and then moved on while we suffered the loss of a #2 draft pick because the Redskins wanted to play him at DE in a 4-3 and he was ill-suited to that assignment.

Bulldog, you make some good points.
But the alternative to signing Mcnabb, is that we would have had to go thru the season with either Grossman and/or Beck as QB.
And given that our line has played pretty poorly, then Grossman would have been on IR by week three and Beck would be running for his life.
And the Skins would be fighting the Cowboys for celler dweller status.

Did we give up too much for Mcnabb? At this point in the season I would say yes, especially if he leaves next year. But that could all change
in the second half of the season. This is the NFL, anything can happen.

[Parsec2010]

When I see the way that Vince Young is treated, and disrespected by his coach(despite his 30-16 win loss record), it reminds me of Donovan McNabb. Black QB's are treated differently, I think we've all grown to accept that, I'm not saying it's right, that's just the reality. The media has always been against McNabb. The only guys that has been in his corner were actual football players, and the coaches who had to face him. Anyone outside of that demographic has always debased his contributions and abilities.

[GenMgr]

When I see the way that Vince Young is treated, and disrespected by his coach, it reminds me of Donovan McNabb. Black QB's are treated differently, I think we've all grown to accept that, I'm not saying it's right, that's just the reality. The media has always been against McNabb. The only guys that has been in his corner were actual football players.

I don't see it with the current media's treatment of this situation. Clearly, the overwhelming majority feels that Shanahan was in the wrong. Race isn't a factor in how Shanahan is evaluating McNabb.

[andboom]

I agree McNabb has been very subpar at this point. His inaccuracy is frustrating to say the least, but one can't discount his bad decision making either. When we do (only occasionally) have short 3rd down conversion attempts, instead of hitting Cooley on a five and out, or one of the backs on a screen, he tosses the ball 40 yards down the field. Now I understand that he doesn't call all of the plays, but I think the qb has a responsibility to know that the situation dictates whether you need 4 yards or 40.

[texasthunder]

When I see the way that Vince Young is treated, and disrespected by his coach(despite his 30-16 win loss record), it reminds me of Donovan McNabb. Black QB's are treated differently, I think we've all grown to accept that, I'm not saying it's right, that's just the reality. The media has always been against McNabb. The only guys that has been in his corner were actual football players, and the coaches who had to face him. Anyone outside of that demographic has always debased his contributions and abilities.

Let me direct you to an appropriate thread: http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?259507-DUMBEST-things-you-ve-heard-a-fan-say/page63&highlight=dumbest+thing+heard+fan

No, we dont all accept that black qb's are treated different. The situation is the same for white running backs.
Its about talent, desire and getting the job done. Wins and loses are what matters in this league, and every head coach knows that.
Its about trying to put the best 11 men on the field that fit the scheme, that play as a unit, and gives the team a chance for a victory.
Amd anyone who suggest that it is any different, is as Ryman of the North would say, a MORON.

[cphil006]

That's assuming he's the QB that plays in November.

It's hard to see Rex or anyone else doing a "better" job.

[RWJ]

The next 8 games will say alot in whether we keep McNabb or not. If he plays well and we do then all is well. If he doesn't then it looks like Shanahan and Co. didn't quite do the homework they should've when they surrendered a 2nd and 3/4th round pick for him. We do need an OL but you'd expect more out of McNabb than has been delivered thus far.

[SweeneyToad]

Thank you Ditka:

"if I'm the coach and my QB is having trouble with the playbook several weeks into the season thats MY FAULT!"

[Hunter_R]

I haven't seen a thread on it, but Jay Glazer just said that Kyle Shanahan has wanted to bench McNabb for weeks.

[snsliberty]

I am not sorry to say that McNabb HAS BEEN, ALWAYS WILL BE, OVERRATED! Think on this, if Rush Limbaugh, who has a nack of starting brush fires everytime he opens his mouth, did not say that Rush was overrated, the support McNabb gets would be much, much less. Now, forget what Rush said, and look at his play. Sure, he makes one or two exciting plays here and there, but he makes more POOR decisions than any QB I have ever seen.

Face it....the guy is OVERRATED....pure and simple. Hall of Fame? That's a joke...
b.

[RWJ]

I haven't seen a thread on it, but Jay Glazer just said that Kyle Shanahan has wanted to bench McNabb for weeks.

KS has alot to lean as an OC. It's pretty apparent with who we have as QB that McNabb is the best option we have at this time.

[SkinsCrushCowboys]

I haven't seen a thread on it, but Jay Glazer just said that Kyle Shanahan has wanted to bench McNabb for weeks.

heard that as well, I do not think Rex would do any better, but if the name on the back of the uniform was not DMAC and we had not dumped a pick(s) for him, based on performance, it would not be unwarranted

[mikeDinNYC]

the fox sports guys just lambasted the shannys... i don't think they could have been more harsh... i imagine that every redskins player is watching this and not feeling so hot about their coaches.
why o why did they pull mcnabb and create this firestorm! so unnecessary and idiotic.

i'm so depressed.

[cphil006]

Thank you Ditka:

"if I'm the coach and my QB is having trouble with the playbook several weeks into the season thats MY FAULT!"

Kyle needs to make the best use of Donnie Mac. Stop trying to force something. They knew what he is capable of. I hat people trying to "install" their offense. Run plays that DMc will be successful at.

On another side, I think the run game is suffering and that needs to get situated first.

[praise_gibbs]

I'm getting quite tired of this McNabb benching. As the days progress so do more stories. I don't care who you have at the QB position, the o-line is not playing the way they should be and we do not have much at thw WR position minus Moss. Honorable mention to Anthony Armstrong who is coming along but, he is not our solid WR opposite Moss just yet. McNabb is our best option right now. **** Rex Grossman. He certainly is not what we need at this point in the season.

I thought it was hysterical when Rex entered the line-up and it resulted in a sack/fumble for a TD. The ultimate message was sent to the Shanahan's on that play. We need better play at the QB position, even a blind man can see it. But, benching McNabb in favor of Rex ****ing Grossman is not going to get the results IMO.

What the hell do I know though.

[Parsec2010]

Let me direct you to an appropriate thread: http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?259507-DUMBEST-things-you-ve-heard-a-fan-say/page63&highlight=dumbest+thing+heard+fan

No, we dont all accept that black qb's are treated different. The situation is the same for white running backs.
Its about talent, desire and getting the job done. Wins and loses are what matters in this league, and every head coach knows that.
Its about trying to put the best 11 men on the field that fit the scheme, that play as a unit, and gives the team a chance for a victory.
Amd anyone who suggest that it is any different, is as Ryman of the North would say, a MORON.

If you don't accept that reality, you need to. Black QB's are held to a different standard, just because you refuse to recognize that doesn't erase this fact. Each and every time I listen to a commentator pontificate about a Black QB, the first thing they mention is his mobility, or how he needs to "learn" the system, or his inability to read his progressions. Instead of allowing this ignorance to raise my blood pressure, I've just come to accept that's how they'll continue to be treated.

[Parsec2010]

I am not sorry to say that McNabb HAS BEEN, ALWAYS WILL BE, OVERRATED! Think on this, if Rush Limbaugh, who has a nack of starting brush fires everytime he opens his mouth, did not say that Rush was overrated, the support McNabb gets would be much, much less. Now, forget what Rush said, and look at his play. Sure, he makes one or two exciting plays here and there, but he makes more POOR decisions than any QB I have ever seen.

Face it....the guy is OVERRATED....pure and simple. Hall of Fame? That's a joke...
b.

McNabb is a lock for the Hall of Fame, he's currently # 16 all-time in passing yards, # 22 all-time in passing TD's, # 14 all time in passes completed, 5 seasons where he's lead his team to 10 or more victories. Once he's retired, he'll be in the top 10 in every important statistical category. That's why he's a Hall of Famer, his numbers prove it.

[ADF]

It was a mistake clear and simple. Forget the media. We have all been around long enough to know Rex Grossman didn't give this team the best chance to win. For all of his 'book' knowledge of the offense he has thrown NINE passes in 2 years in Kyle Shanahan's system and has NEVER run a two minute drill in the scheme.


If Donovan McNabb is a mistake, it is one of Mike Shanahan's own making, he can't put this one on anyone else. Mike wanted #5 here. He traded the picks.

And now we learn the staff doesn't like McNabb's footwork and mechanics throwing the ball?

You've got to be kidding me.

After watching 10 years of available tape on McNabb's NFL career I can't believe Shanahan and Son couldn't evaluate McNabb and his suitability to play in the scheme being installed here.

I hope this isn't heading down the road of the Jason Taylor acquisition where Jason was here for a year and then moved on while we suffered the loss of a #2 draft pick because the Redskins wanted to play him at DE in a 4-3 and he was ill-suited to that assignment.

This is exactly how I feel. Did they even watch film on McNabb? The guy has been playing in the league for a decade. There should have been more than enough film to determine if he was a fit for their system. You can't squander multiple early round picks like this. This is the crap that's got us in our current situation. Also, what film have they been watching that would lead them to believe that Grossman could lead them down the field with less than 2 minutes to go? All that did was open this can of worms.

[Kostaskins]

dm5 stay! youve given us something that we havent had since brad johnson a true leader in the locker room and well a goood qb!

[Phixius]

All I know is McNabb has beaten the Redskins so many times in his career. I think people should give him.......well I don't care what you people do, I'm going to believe in McNabb until he's longer a Redskin. It's not McNabb's fault that Kyle hasn't figured out how to move the chain on the ground.

[RedskinsInFebruary]

I'm getting quite tired of this McNabb benching. As the days progress so do more stories. I don't care who you have at the QB position, the o-line is not playing the way they should be and we do not have much at thw WR position minus Moss. Honorable mention to Anthony Armstrong who is coming along but, he is not our solid WR opposite Moss just yet. McNabb is our best option right now. **** Rex Grossman. He certainly is not what we need at this point in the season.

I thought it was hysterical when Rex entered the line-up and it resulted in a sack/fumble for a TD. The ultimate message was sent to the Shanahan's on that play. We need better play at the QB position, even a blind man can see it. But, benching McNabb in favor of Rex ****ing Grossman is not going to get the results IMO.

What the hell do I know though.

I think it's hysterical they imagined switching QB's would fix our interior OL.