How should a good coach protect his starting QB

[gbear]

A team grabs a 10 year vet who has a long history of winning even if stats aren't great. During the game before a bye week, the QB and the team are struggling, and the coach makes a coaches call replacing him for the game because he thought it gave the team the best chance to win.

It doesn't turn out.

Fast forwad to the end of the game. The coach knows a few things. 1) the local media will be all over the qb for bad/eratic play. 2) The media will second guess him because they lost. 3) He wants to start the vet qb the next game.

Is it unreasonable to protect the QB and his mental status by switching stories and making his reasoning the story rather than the qb's play? The coach being second guessed was a given. DOes making the story be about hs decision and what prompted it help or hurt the QB prepare mentally for the next game? I'm not sure taking the spot light off the QB who just struggled before a bye week isn't exactly what we pay a good coach to do.

[grego]

interesting point. plausible.

[SWFLSkins]

Is it groundhog day again?

[scott.sharrer]

Is it groundhog day again?

I was thinking that. Haven't we discussed this point in the other half dozen shanny/mcnabb threads?

But to say it again, it comes down to one basic team sport logic, he is the coach, he makes the calls, and in reality doesn't have to answer to the media. He made the decision to do so, and THAT was his mistake.

Now as far as taking the attention off McNabb. 1. I would give Shanny credit if that was the case simply because it would refute what the multitude of "experts" and ESers have said, that Shanny doesn't support/respect McNabb. 2. It didn't work. All week the media has been all over McNabb as well as Shanny calling him out on his lack of play this year.

[Frostx08]

Shanahan is not a stupid guy...and yet he seemed to purposely, imo, belittle the team leader. I'm sorry but there are QBs out there that are much worst and I have yet to hear their coach go as far as Shanny did. You have Qbs throwing 3 picks in games despite being in their system for longer than a year and I have yet to hear people bash them as much. That was just unprofessional but that's just me. Cutler could have thrown 5 picks in a game and I doubt he'd bench him

[scott.sharrer]

Shanahan is not a stupid guy...and yet he seemed to purposely, imo, belittle the team leader. I'm sorry but there are QBs out there that are much worst and I have yet to hear their coach go as far as Shanny did. You have Qbs throwing 3 picks in games despite being in their system for longer than a year and I have yet to hear people bash them as much. That was just unprofessional but that's just me. Cutler could have thrown 5 picks in a game and I doubt he'd bench him

I agree it was unprofessional. How bout we bring in Wade Phillips instead? J/k. I have not once said his interview was the right thing to do, I only stated I support bencing McNabb ONLY because we DO NOT KNOW THE FULL STORY. I just hope that the team unity will pull them through this and shut the ******* media up

[Soup]

I don't think so, everyone could see the oline was playing horribly.

Even if they left in Mcnabb, the talk would be centered around the oline, instead of the coaching and QB as it is now.

[Bang]

You can bet that Shanahan is not just leaving McNabb out there with only his comments to the press to go by.
And McNabb is not some second year player who needs coddling to keep his psyche intact.
He ddnt get benched for a game or a half or even a quarter, he got benched for a 2 minute drill that barring a miracle was going to result in a loss.
the game was lost when they refused to punt on 4th and 10 from our own 20 with 3 minutes left, and somehow that decision has been excused, or forgotten. And frankly, THAT one was more inexpilcable and worthy of wonder than the insertion of Grossman.

~Bang

[scott.sharrer]

the game was lost when they refused to punt on 4th and 10 from our own 20 with 3 minutes left, and somehow that decision has been excused, or forgotten. And frankly, THAT one was more inexpilcable and worthy of wonder than the insertion of Grossman.

~Bang

Thank you for bringing this up. The only sports writer I like is Gregg Easterbrook because he, like myself, calls out the media on their false statements, favoritism and inaptitude. He weekly comments on the errors of punting on 4th down in tight games. He statistically analyzed games over a 3 year period. He showed that in 92% of games where a team punts on 4th down in a close game, they loose. The teams that go for it win 92% of the time. So blame the benching all you want, but I have to agree with Bang

[scott.sharrer]

Thank you for bringing this up. The only sports writer I like is Gregg Easterbrook because he, like myself, calls out the media on their false statements, favoritism and inaptitude. He weekly comments on the errors of punting on 4th down in tight games. He statistically analyzed games over a 3 year period. He showed that in 92% of games where a team punts on 4th down in a close game, they loose. The teams that go for it win 92% of the time. So this game going for it was one of the times that didn't fit in the majority. A lot of things went wrong in this game, and NO ONE THING can be solely blamed for the loss

[Frostx08]

I agree it was unprofessional. How bout we bring in Wade Phillips instead? J/k. I have not once said his interview was the right thing to do, I only stated I support bencing McNabb ONLY because we DO NOT KNOW THE FULL STORY. I just hope that the team unity will pull them through this and shut the ******* media up

Well I guess it's an opinion and we all have one, I just think considering the circumstances and everything else...in addition to coming out and saying your starting QB doesn't have the "cardiovascular endurance" and can't do a two minute drill...it's one thing for a radio host to say something like that but not a coach. And I think there are several Qbs not named McNabb that would have not been pulled for that. It would have just been a loss and that's it.

[scott.sharrer]

Well I guess it's an opinion and we all have one, I just think considering the circumstances and everything else...in addition to coming out and saying your starting QB doesn't have the "cardiovascular endurance" and can't do a two minute drill...it's one thing for a radio host to say something like that but not a coach. And I think there are several Qbs not named McNabb that would have not been pulled for that. It would have just been a loss and that's it.

Not in anyway doubting you but what QBs are you refering to? Only reason I am asking is that this is borderline of falling into the conversation earlier in the week when someone said that if McNabb was white he wouldn't have been benched.

And you are right it is one thing for the coach to do it compared to a radio host. That is why I said I DO NOT agree with his response to the media, but support his decision DURING the game because he is the coach and something could of been said or happened during the game on the sideline that lead to it happening when it did that no one will ever know because Shanny nor McNabb are the type of coach/player to talk internal team business to the media which is good and bad. In this case I would say it is bad because they opened a door that they are not making any attempt to close and until they do, it will just lead to more accusations and speculations that are not needed. The sooner this is put behind the team, the better it is for the team and the longer it drags on the more damage that COULD be done from it.

[#98QBKiller]

I'm almost convinced that Shanahan doesn't even know for sure why he made the decision. I think he was frustrated at the end of the game and made the switch out of emotion. I think if he could go back and do things differently he would. And I don't just mean in the context of hindsight. If he could go back and put his emotions in check, I don't think he would have ever benched McNabb.

All of that being said, everyone knows that it was a mistake. Including Shanahan himself. I think the best thing that he can do right now is go to McNabb, tell him that he's the guy and that they (the coaching staff) have confidence in him and that they made a mistake in benching him. Clear the air and be honest with McNabb and tell him that you're ready to move on with the season and finish strong.

IMO, McNabb would appreciate that more than anything and it would certainly be a motivator heading into act 2.

[Frostx08]

Not in anyway doubting you but what QBs are you refering to? Only reason I am asking is that this is borderline of falling into the conversation earlier in the week when someone said that if McNabb was white he wouldn't have been benched.

And you are right it is one thing for the coach to do it compared to a radio host. That is why I said I DO NOT agree with his response to the media, but support his decision DURING the game because he is the coach and something could of been said or happened during the game on the sideline that lead to it happening when it did that no one will ever know because Shanny nor McNabb are the type of coach/player to talk internal team business to the media which is good and bad. In this case I would say it is bad because they opened a door that they are not making any attempt to close and until they do, it will just lead to more accusations and speculations that are not needed. The sooner this is put behind the team, the better it is for the team and the longer it drags on the more damage that COULD be done from it.

I would never bring race into anything...that's just a recipe for trouble and I'd rather debate without bringing it up

But what I am saying in general is....I've seen Qbs struggle and make game ending interceptions. I have seen Eli, Rothlisberger, Flacco, even Cutler struggle ridiculously and people stick behind them. McNabb just seems to be held to an entirely different standard imo, I'm not saying that to start anything...I'm saying that more so because of analysis and comparison. Even when Carson Palmer was struggling I'm not sure anyone ever suggested benching him, and he has much more at his disposal than McNabb(Didn't stop Terrell Owens from talking though :ols:). McNabb is definitely struggling, wouldn't disagree with anyone there but I'm just saying that I've seen Qbs stay on the field for much worse. More often than not, they stay

I guess I can agree with you that it's the coach's decision. I guess we both have the stance that the way he handled it was wrong, so no problem there. But especially with just under 2 minutes to go..that still seems a bit extreme. Kind of like Jeff Fisher benching Vince Young for struggling against the Steelers. It just seems a bit over the top and unnecessary

Heck I'm not even sure if Brett Favre has been benched ever and even when he was with the Packers he'd throw almost as much interceptions as touchdowns

[scott.sharrer]

I'm almost convinced that Shanahan doesn't even know for sure why he made the decision. I think he was frustrated at the end of the game and made the switch out of emotion. I think if he could go back and do things differently he would. And I don't just mean in the context of hindsight. If he could go back and put his emotions in check, I don't think he would have ever benched McNabb.

All of that being said, everyone knows that it was a mistake. Including Shanahan himself. I think the best thing that he can do right now is go to McNabb, tell him that he's the guy and that they (the coaching staff) have confidence in him and that they made a mistake in benching him. Clear the air and be honest with McNabb and tell him that you're ready to move on with the season and finish strong.

IMO, McNabb would appreciate that more than anything and it would certainly be a motivator heading into act 2.

Very good possibility, and falls right in line with what I have been saying. None of us know exactly what went on down on the sideline, and this is a very likely possibility, and the more I think about it now, I would say it is the most likely, but that is my opinion.

And in regards to Shanny saying that to McNabb, it falls into the same category. That could of happened already, we don't know and I doubt we ever will cause like I said, neither are likely to go to the media about any conversations that are held behind closed doors

[LadySkinsFan]

You can bet that Shanahan is not just leaving McNabb out there with only his comments to the press to go by.
And McNabb is not some second year player who needs coddling to keep his psyche intact.
He ddnt get benched for a game or a half or even a quarter, he got benched for a 2 minute drill that barring a miracle was going to result in a loss.
the game was lost when they refused to punt on 4th and 10 from our own 20 with 3 minutes left, and somehow that decision has been excused, or forgotten. And frankly, THAT one was more inexpilcable and worthy of wonder than the insertion of Grossman.

~Bang

That 4th down call plus the 2 2-point conversion calls were just inexplicable to me. The passing game was non-existent and he calls for 2 point conversion plays based on passes. Granted that Davis couldn't hang on to the passes that were in his hands.

Lots of blame about this game. But the yanking of McNabb was just adding insult to injury. And going into the bye week was just mindblowng.

[Frostx08]

Thank you for bringing this up. The only sports writer I like is Gregg Easterbrook because he, like myself, calls out the media on their false statements, favoritism and inaptitude. He weekly comments on the errors of punting on 4th down in tight games. He statistically analyzed games over a 3 year period. He showed that in 92% of games where a team punts on 4th down in a close game, they loose. The teams that go for it win 92% of the time. So blame the benching all you want, but I have to agree with Bang

I would love to see this article so that I can verify the validity of these claims myself

Btw...we lost the Texans game after Kubiak decided to punt. Football isn't set in stone and imho..we should have punted or just run the ball 3 times even if we had no gain

[GhostofSparta]

I would love to see this article so that I can verify the validity of these claims myself

Btw...we lost the Texans game after Kubiak decided to punt. Football isn't set in stone and imho..we should have punted or just run the ball 3 times even if we had no gain

I read Gregg on TMQ, and he talks about it every week, so I'm not sure which specific article would give solid stats on it, but even he himself states that there's a difference between 4th and 10 and your own 20 and 4th and inches at your opponent's 40. It's the latter the he always decries and states that agressive teams make the call to go for it there and usually end up winning.

[Rocky52Mc]

A good coach doesn't protect his QB. Unlike McNabb, Shanahan doesn't run the risk of blowing a knee out or losing his mind to concussions. Good coaches understand players are replaceable and are hired without ties to players unlike (Zorn + Campbell)

[PeterMP]

This is a stupid thread and idea. By doing so he put the FOCUS on McNabb. For this week and the next.

If he'd benched Landry, gotten into a yelling match on the sideline with Fletcher, etc, then you might have an argument.

You think if McNabb gets off to a bad start against Philly, there aren't going to boos. All the benching has done is put that much MORE attention on how badly McNabb has been playing.

[Frostx08]

This is a stupid thread and idea. By doing so he put the FOCUS on McNabb. For this week and the next.

If he'd benched Landry, gotten into a yelling match on the sideline with Fletcher, etc, then you might have an argument.

You think if McNabb gets off to a bad start against Philly, there aren't going to boos. All the benching has done is put that much MORE attention on how badly McNabb has been playing.

If he'd benched Landry or Fletcher....it would be significant but not as significant as benching the face and leader of your franchise. However he has praised Galloway and our O-linemen...so it's obvious he has no problem embarrassing 5 while making others who are playing poorly look good

And conversely...benching McNabb can also make him the ultimate scapegoat for all the holes/shortcomings of our team....it's gotten to the point where if we don't win people will probably point to what McNabb didn't do 1st and foremost

[GoDeep81]

I've read alot of threads about McNabb and coach, and heard tons of "plausible" reasons why he may of done it.. But to be honest, all the "plausibe" reason go straight out the window since tha game was still very winnable.. When you pull the starting QB, with less than 2 mins to go, down by less than 7 points, it becomes very UNplausable.. Just sayin.. :point2sky

[Forever21]

I've read alot of threads about McNabb and coach, and heard tons of "plausible" reasons why he may of done it.. But to be honest, all the "plausibe" reason go straight out the window since tha game was still very winnable.. When you pull the starting QB, with less than 2 mins to go, down by less than 7 points, it becomes very UNplausable.. Just sayin..

I agree. I actually like the logic of thinking of the thread. IF the game had been two or more scores I'd be tempted to agree with the OP. However, with the game in reach. makes little sense.

[Bang]

Thank you for bringing this up. The only sports writer I like is Gregg Easterbrook because he, like myself, calls out the media on their false statements, favoritism and inaptitude. He weekly comments on the errors of punting on 4th down in tight games. He statistically analyzed games over a 3 year period. He showed that in 92% of games where a team punts on 4th down in a close game, they loose. The teams that go for it win 92% of the time. So blame the benching all you want, but I have to agree with Bang

If percentages are what you want to go on, you need to look at the Redskins 3rd and long percentage, and fourth and long percentage.
They aren't good.
Going for it from the 45 is one thing, especially if it was just McNabb having a bad day, and not the fact that the Lions defensive line had dominated the entire game and smacked him around like a speedbag all day.
But it was our own 20, with the odds of making just that play stacked so heavily against us that it doesn't matter at that point what the stats say about the rest of the game, if you don't make that highly unlikely play, the game is all but over. You've volunteered to go down two scores even if your defense forces a 3 and out.
Your better chance with 2 timeouts and the 2 minute warning is to punt and put your better unit on the field, the defense, and demand they make a stop. Then you put your best player of the whole day on the field (Banks) and see if he can flip field position by breaking another good return, something he'd had a high% of doing all day. Even if he doesn't, you haven't lost anything that you would concede by blowing it on fourth down.
And you don't need to bench McNabb, and choking on fourth down from our own 20 isn't a spirit crusher.

~Bang

[MikeBass]

If percentages are what you want to go on, you need to look at the Redskins 3rd and long percentage, and fourth and long percentage.
They aren't good.
Going for it from the 45 is one thing, especially if it was just McNabb having a bad day, and not the fact that the Lions defensive line had dominated the entire game and smacked him around like a speedbag all day.
But it was our own 20, with the odds of making just that play stacked so heavily against us that it doesn't matter at that point what the stats say about the rest of the game, if you don't make that highly unlikely play, the game is all but over. You've volunteered to go down two scores even if your defense forces a 3 and out.
Your better chance with 2 timeouts and the 2 minute warning is to punt and put your better unit on the field, the defense, and demand they make a stop. Then you put your best player of the whole day on the field (Banks) and see if he can flip field position by breaking another good return, something he'd had a high% of doing all day. Even if he doesn't, you haven't lost anything that you would concede by blowing it on fourth down.
And you don't need to bench McNabb, and choking on fourth down from our own 20 isn't a spirit crusher.

~Bang

Bang, it is not my norm to get into 2 other members debate, but how you intentionally formatted your post was funnier than a mug!!

...and BTW, I agree with every word!!

[Hollywood1127]

Start by giving him an O-Line this coming off-season. Enough Said.

[REEGSKINS]

Start by giving him an O-Line this coming off-season. Enough Said.

an oline and a receiver is a must