Your 2010 Rookie corp

[Burgold]

Overall, not too bad a group. Each of these guys flashed at least a little.

Trent Williams: Has any rookie been subjected to a trial by fire like him? Was there a single top rusher not on our schedule? Considering his lack of help at guard he did amazingly. Began to break down as the year went on due to injuries. Grade B+

Brandon Banks: Electrifying returner and high effort guy. Not a receiver yet. They stopped putting him out there. Injury risk just because of size, but nice combo of speed, toughness, and agility. Only returner in the league that makes punters look like giants. Grade A-

Perry Riley: Seems to have good instincts at linebacker, but is still raw and will make some boneheaded plays. Contributes some penalties. Grade C+

Terrance Austin: Looked okay yesterday. Another smallish receiver with good speed and good hands. Grade: Inc too little evidence to judge really.

Anthony Armstrong: You can say he's not really a rookie, but this was his first NFL shot despite his age. He kept improving and coming on. Even after teams had tape on him they couldn't neutralize him and he not only continued making plays, but Big plays. Grade: A

Ryan Torrain: Again, not a rookie and even more of a stretch than Armstrong, but what the hey. Great downhill hill runner who fights hard and breaks tackles, plus has a little shake and beak. Lacks break away speed and durability is a question. Grade: B

Keiland Williams: Improved as the year went on. Good hands. Getting better at blocking. Seems okay at everything, but not fast enough, strong enough, or slippery enough to be a starter. Grade: C+

Selvish Capers: Couldn't unseat Heyers or earn a shot up from the practice squad when everyone else was. Grade: Inc or D

Rookies who were cut: Grade F

I'm probably missing a few. For this thread, I'm considering a rookie year anyone who had his first NFL snaps this year or a guy who never spent time on a roster. I probably should take off Torrain, but I can't remember if he got hurt with Denver in training camp or during the season.

[acuratl1984]

Erik Cook: ?
Logan Paulsen: Grade IMO C+ : Good blocker can catch out of the back field.

[Blue Collar Skins]

Great write up Burgold! My only thing is getting that many good young players in 1 season is great, not good.

[HigSkin]

It's time to continue the youth movement and replace Sellers with Darrel Young! :pfft:

Undrafted as a LB moved to FB and is becoming a ST cog.

[HTTR F Dallas]

It's time to continue the youth movement and replace Sellers with Darrel Young! :pfft:

Undrafted as a LB moved to FB and is becoming a ST cog.

I remember seeing a couple of his runs and he looks like a beast. Much shorter than Sellers though... I would have liked to see more of him in the last 3 games to see his blocking skills. IMO we could have done a better job giving our backups a chance

[authentic]

It's time to continue the youth movement and replace Sellers with Darrel Young! :pfft:

Undrafted as a LB moved to FB and is becoming a ST cog.

Absolutely! Darrel Young should definately be looked upon to take over for Sellers. Otherwise this is a good thread.

[Burgold]

Absolutely! Darrel Young should definately be looked upon to take over for Sellers. Otherwise this is a good thread.

Sheesh, just because I forgot one guy it doesn't make the good thread list. ;)

[Burgold]

What's kind of fun is that despite very few draft picks... we ended up with a pretty good rookie crop and many who contributed and even better were allowed to contribute (a definite weakness of both Gibbs and Zorn who all too often wouldn't let rookies onto the field and if someone was injured would cast about for a veteran to sign and start instead of letting the young guy take his spot)

It's amazing how much younger this team got as the season progressed.

[jflow78]

Even if you just look at the players who finished the season compared with who started the season, we're younger, we've got some potential, and some of these young players could be here for years.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Capers was shocking in the pre-season. Not surprised he never got called up, as thin as we were late on.

Nice write up and fair grading Bg, even if you did forget a couple. *Grins.

The futures slowly starting to take place.

Hail.

[Forehead]

Selvish Capers: Couldn't unseat Heyers or earn a shot up from the practice squad when everyone else was. Grade: Inc or D

I saw a blog somewhere that referred to him, derisively I assume, as Selfish Crappers. If he ever does make our 53 man roster, this has to become his nickname.

[Darth Tater]

What's kind of fun is that despite very few draft picks... we ended up with a pretty good rookie crop and many who contributed and even better were allowed to contribute (a definite weakness of both Gibbs and Zorn who all too often wouldn't let rookies onto the field and if someone was injured would cast about for a veteran to sign and start instead of letting the young guy take his spot)

It's amazing how much younger this team got as the season progressed.

Well, not really amazing to me because I continually pointed this out throughout the season. There are only two ways to find quality young guys. You either do the numbers with having lots and lots of guys to look at or surround the few you've got with guys who know what their doing (even though those vets skills may be fading). With little resources to get quality young guns, you have to surround those you do have with the best set of vets you can find. You now need to rinse and repeat. You keep doing it that way until you get good and now you are going to get the picks and confidence you need to keep it going.

[Burgold]

We really raided the heck out of a lot of team's practice squads too.

[jfriedenthal]

Am I the only one who wouldn't give Armstrong an A? I like the kid, he works hard, and was better than expected, but he is not in the slightest bit elusive. He goes down by a pinky tackle. I would give him a solid B, but there is PLENTY of room for improvement (in my eyes).

[Burgold]

I think it depends what you mean by elusive. He sure gets open well enough. I think you're right that he doesn't break a lot of tackles or juke guys into looking silly, but some of that is the throw and some of it is Armstrong. I can deal with a B... but as a castoff unheralded, undrafted rookie I'm feeling generous enough to stick with my earlier grade.

[#98QBKiller]

Great writeup and I have to say I agree 100 percent. I didn't realize that Anthony Armstrong was only 129 yards from breaking 1,000 on the season. Had he started all year in place of Old Man Galloway, who knows what kind of numbers he would've posted. Very proud to have him here. I hope we keep Santana as our slot guy and get another good WR in FA. If we do, whoever the QB is next season will have a very good bunch to throw to.

[nightbird]

Armstrong gets the "A" because as an undrafted rookie, he put up the numbers we BEGGED a long list of #2 receivers to put up, many of whom were high draft picks.

He had what, 45 catches for almost 900 yards and a few TDs?

Here's a partial list of "#2" receivers who never came close to doing that playing across from Santana Moss:

Antwan Randle-el
Malcolm Kelly (2nd round pick)
Devin Thomas (2nd round pick)
Brandon Lloyd (traded a 3rd and 4th rounder for him)
David Patten
Taylor Jacobs (2nd round pick)

[Truant]

Torain definitely got time during the regular season in Denver. I think in his first career start he had sixty some yards and a TD and then hurt himself. Sound familiar?

I like the players you listed. The grades may be a little generous. I'd say Kevin Barnes, while not a rookie, finally saw time on the field. Perhaps he deserves a mention.

I really liked what I say out of Austin. He seemed pretty explosive. I liked how he fought for yards while AA (a nice find) seemingly looks for an excuse to topple to the ground.

[The Tris]

My only thing is getting that many good young players in 1 season is great, not good.

Redskins fans need to aim higher.

In 2008 the Falcons drafted six starters (Ryan, Baker, Lofton, Douglas, DeCoud, Biermann) and promoted Weems from their practice squad. That team won 11 games.

This year, the Bucs won 10 games with 10 rookie starters (Blount, Williams, Benn, Hardman, Larsen, McCoy, Lynch, Biggers, Watson, Woods).

We did ok mining the rookies we did with the limited picks we had. Far from great.

Heck, even a deep, veteran team like the Pats have seven rookies making significant contributions. We need to aim higher than this.

[PokerPacker]

Redskins fans need to aim higher.

Yeah, that was my thought, too. I think long periods of poor scouting has lead to lowered standards.

I see that list of Redskins and think its okay, but far from great. Starting LT, KR, already aging WR, and a few projects.

[Oldfan]

Sheesh, just because I forgot one guy it doesn't make the good thread list. ;)We have a very high standard on this board, my friend.:ols:

[Califan007]

Yeah, that was my thought, too. I think long periods of poor scouting has lead to lowered standards.

I see that list of Redskins and think its okay, but far from great. Starting LT, KR, already aging WR, and a few projects.

But most of the players listed in the OP were cast-offs, low round picks or udrafted free agents. You don't usually find as many contributing players out of that talent pool as we did this year.

To compare, that list of rookie contributors on the 2008 Falcons that was posted above you:

"In 2008 the Falcons drafted six starters (Ryan, Baker, Lofton, Douglas, DeCoud, Biermann) and promoted Weems from their practice squad. That team won 11 games."

Ryan - 1st round
Baker - 1st round
Lofton - 2nd round
Douglas - 3rd round, didn't start any games that year, had worse stats than Armstrong...in fact his career total is less than what Armstrong did this year lol
DeCoud - 3rd round, didn't start any games that year
Biermann- 5th round, didn't start any games that year

5 of those 6 "starters" were drafted in the first 3 rounds...3 of those 6 "starters" didn't start until their 2nd or 3rd years. We've yet to see how the careers of players like Armstrong, Banks, Austin and Torain will be like by their 3rd years in the league.

The Bucs definitely did well with their rookies this year, but that's not the norm by any stretch of the imagination...what they did was incredible (or lucky lol)...nobody should deem their rookie class a disappointment by comparing it to what occurred with the Bucs.

[zskins]

Sheesh, just because I forgot one guy it doesn't make the good thread list. ;)

With as many as post you have one would think you would know by now it is EXTREMESkins. ;)

Thanks for the write up though. :)

[Oldfan]

Wasn't Armstrong already here, on our practice squad in 2009?

[Califan007]

By the way, to compare further:

Ryan - 1st round
Baker - 1st round
Lofton - 2nd round
Douglas - 3rd round
DeCoud - 3rd round
Biermann- 5th round


Trent Williams - 1st round
Perry Riley - 4th round
Terrence Austin - 7th round
Keiland Williams - Undrafted
Brandon Banks - Undrafted
Ryan Torain - Cast off/5th round
Anthony Armstrong - Cast off/Undrafted

---------- Post added January-3rd-2011 at 05:10 PM ----------


Wasn't Armstrong already here, on our practice squad in 2009?

Yep...he got tossed from the Dolphins' PS and then we picked him up.

[Burgold]

Can't remember exactly when he was added. It may have been very early in the offseason or may have been within the last few games of '09. That's why his inclusion on this list was a wee bit sketchy, but certainly not an unreasonable stretch.

[The Tris]

As I said, we did a good job with what we had. But until we retain our picks and add significant, highly drafted youth, I will refuse to give us a great stamp.

[thesubmittedone]

I know I'm excited for what the future holds based on these guys alone.

I think we're going to go all out in Free Agency, but not in the way we used to. I don't think we're going to sign 2 or 3 big name players to massive contracts within minutes of the start of Free Agency and call it a night like before, lol. I think we're going to sign like 6-10 guys, mostly to 3 year contracts or so, heavily based on incentives. We might make a big splash at WR, but that's it I think.

I can't wait, and I hope this CBA nonsense gets ironed out quickly. This thread also shows us the value of those late round picks, and it's sweet that we got 4 of them in the last two rounds alone.

[Thinking Skins]

What's kind of fun is that despite very few draft picks... we ended up with a pretty good rookie crop and many who contributed and even better were allowed to contribute (a definite weakness of both Gibbs and Zorn who all too often wouldn't let rookies onto the field and if someone was injured would cast about for a veteran to sign and start instead of letting the young guy take his spot)

It's amazing how much younger this team got as the season progressed.

I don't know. I'm afraid of Torrain because he seems to get injured a lot. And similar to Gibbs, Shanny was unwilling to have these guys on the roster (and thus to play these guys) until their veteran starters got hurt, in which case the rookies outperformed them. That really leads me to wonder how many other young guys should be starting instead of the guys we had starting.

---------- Post added January-3rd-2011 at 10:53 PM ----------


But most of the players listed in the OP were cast-offs, low round picks or udrafted free agents. You don't usually find as many contributing players out of that talent pool as we did this year.



But teams normally don't have that many UDFAs as the primary backups on their team. Its nice that we found some possible gems in UDFAs (Armstrong, Banks, Torrain), but the pessimistic person I am, I've got to say its more due to us getting lucky for once with a large number of our UDFAs unlike most years. Remember how much we praised Heyer when he beat out Jansen, but the next season he showed his true colors. We're normally a team that's forced to rely on a lot of UDFAs as primary backups and we get lucky often enough (look at W. Montgomery), but I don't think that any of these guys (other than Banks at KR/PR) is really a gamechanger or a guy we say we're ready to rely on.

[PokerPacker]

But most of the players listed in the OP were cast-offs, low round picks or udrafted free agents. You don't usually find as many contributing players out of that talent pool as we did this year.

To compare, that list of rookie contributors on the 2008 Falcons that was posted above you:
Or you can compare it with the Packers rookie class this season.

contributing players:
Draft Picks

1st round- Bryan Bulaga, current starting RT and future LT
2nd round- Mike Neal, rotating lineman before injured.
3rd round- Morgan Burnett, starting SS before injured
5th round- Andrew Quarless, starting TE
5th round- Marshall Newhouse, OL that did not contribute but 53 man roster before joining IR
6th round- James Starks, most explosive RB on the active roster
7th round- C.J. Wilson, rotating defensive lineman who played as started in shutout against the Jets.


Undrafted Free Agents:

Frank Zombo, starting ROLB
Sam Shields, Nickel CB/KR
Tim Masthay, Best punter we've seen in GB in years. Special Teams player of the week in the shutout to the Jets, and I think could be named again after keeping Devin Hester in check on 8 punts.
Nick McDonald, OL that did not contribute but on 53 man roster
Graham Harrell, 3rd string QB on 45 man roster for Patriots game with Rodgers out with concussion
Josh Gordy, reserve CB


Practice Squad/Waivers/Miscellaneous

Dimitri Nance- Power short yardage HB
Tom Crabtree- Run-blocking TE


Bolded are contributors. We've got 11 rookies (going by the "never appeared in an NFL game" definition, I suppose) who are making or have made contributions, several of which are currently or began the season as starters. We got 6 starters (I consider nickel CB to be starting since we play more nickel snaps than base) among the rookie class (though Burnett is now on IR), three of whom were UDFAs.

There's nothing wrong with the 'Skins rookie class, but when you look at it compared to some others around the league, you see that its not really that great by comparison.

[Burgold]

I don't know. I'm afraid of Torrain because he seems to get injured a lot. And similar to Gibbs, Shanny was unwilling to have these guys on the roster (and thus to play these guys) until their veteran starters got hurt, in which case the rookies outperformed them. That really leads me to wonder how many other young guys should be starting instead of the guys we had starting.[COLOR="Gold"]

Yes and no. Armstrong, Banks, Williams and Williams got on the field almost from the get go. It took an overly long time to see what some others could do. Was Perry elevated mid season to special teams play or was he playing the whole year? I can't remember.

[Thinking Skins]

Yes and no. Armstrong, Banks, Williams and Williams got on the field almost from the get go. It took an overly long time to see what some others could do. Was Perry elevated mid season to special teams play or was he playing the whole year? I can't remember.

Armstrong, yes. Banks wasn't even on the roster for the first few games (remember Devin Thomas returning kicks and punts?). T. Williams was an immediate starter. K. Williams had to beat out Larry Johnson. He was on the field, but hadn't emerged as the third down back yet. But even armstrong was the number 3 or 4 from the getgo. Eventually Shanny decided to play him ahead of no production Galloway.

[Califan007]

Or you can compare it with the Packers rookie class this season.
Yeah, let's do that lol :thumbsup:


contributing players:
(Let's see what they contributed)

Draft Picks

1st round- Bryan Bulaga, current starting RT and future LT
2nd round- Mike Neal, rotating lineman before injured.
3rd round- Morgan Burnett, starting SS before injured
Gonna ignore rookies from the first 3 rounds since my comment was about how much production the Redskins got from "rookie" players not acquired from those early rounds (other than Williams). Plus, it's less work for me lol :D....



5th round- Andrew Quarless, starting TE
5th round- Marshall Newhouse, OL that did not contribute but 53 man roster before joining IR
6th round- James Starks, most explosive RB on the active roster
7th round- C.J. Wilson, rotating defensive lineman who played as started in shutout against the Jets.
1. Started 3 games, 21 catches, 1 TD. Not all that bad, especially for a 5th round back-up TE.

2. Did not contribute, merely made the team then got injured...in other words, he's their version of Colt Brennan/Malcolm Kelly lol ;)

3. "Most explosive RB on the roster" had 29 attempts for 101 yards, a 3.5 ypc average...and zero TDs.

To compare, Keiland Williams had 65 attempts, 261 yards, a 4.0 ypc average...and 3 TDs. He also had 39 receptions for 309 yards, and another 2 TDs. And was undrafted.

4. Played in 15 games, had 18 total tackles, and 1 sack. Again, not bad for a 7th rounder.

All in all...eh. "Not too bad" would be the best I would say for this group.




Undrafted Free Agents:

Frank Zombo, starting ROLB
Sam Shields, Nickel CB/KR
Tim Masthay, Best punter we've seen in GB in years. Special Teams player of the week in the shutout to the Jets, and I think could be named again after keeping Devin Hester in check on 8 punts.
Nick McDonald, OL that did not contribute but on 53 man roster
Graham Harrell, 3rd string QB on 45 man roster for Patriots game with Rodgers out with concussion
Josh Gordy, reserve CB

1. Truly good return on an undrafted FA
2. 29 tackles, 2 INTs, 6 pass def....another really good return on a UFA.
3. Punters should be an exception, because they are almost always low round picks or undrafted free agents. In fact, almost all of the top 10 punters in the league this year were either drafted in the 6th or 7th rounds or were undrafted free agents.
4. Did not contribute
5. Did not contribute
6. Only played in 2 games, got 2 tackles total.

So out of the 6 undrafted FAs, two were really good, three contributed nothing, and one shouldn't really count.



Practice Squad/Waivers/Miscellaneous

Dimitri Nance- Power short yardage HB
Tom Crabtree- Run-blocking TE

1. 36 attempts, 95 yards, 2.6 ypc...0 TDs
2. 4 catches, 61 yards, 0 TDs. By contrast our undrafted 3rd string blocking TE had 2 catches, 10 yards, 1 TD.



Bolded are contributors. We've got 11 rookies (going by the "never appeared in an NFL game" definition, I suppose) who are making or have made contributions, several of which are currently or began the season as starters. We got 6 starters (I consider nickel CB to be starting since we play more nickel snaps than base) among the rookie class (though Burnett is now on IR), three of whom were UDFAs.

There's nothing wrong with the 'Skins rookie class, but when you look at it compared to some others around the league, you see that its not really that great by comparison.

So to compare the production of the low-round "rookies"/UFAs/cast-offs on both squads:

Total receptions:
Packers - 30
Redskins - 109

Total receiving TDs:
Packers - 1
Redskins - 9

Total rushing yards:
Packers - 196 yds
Redskins - 1,022 yds

Yards per carry:
Packers - 3.0 ypc
Redskins - 4.4 ypc

Total rushing TDs:
Packers - 0
Redskins - 7

Total tackles:
Packers - 87
Redskins - 7

Total sacks:
Packers - 5
Redskins - 0

Kickoff returns:
Packers - averaged 21.5 yards per return, 0 TDs
Redskins - averages 25.1 yards per return, 1 TD

I dunno...I think we match up pretty good.

Altogether you listed 11 Packers "rookies"...altogether I listed the stats from 9 Redskins "rookies". I'm not sure how you could say that the Skins' rookies did not measure up to what the Packers' rookies showed and produced. There MIGHT be an argument that the Skins' rookies only contributed more because they saw more time on the field due to injuries and the Skins' starters not being that good (lol)...but if you make that argument that means that if we had simply put Devin Thomas on the field he would have produced like Anthony Armstrong did...meaning, it's not the talent level or ability to adapt to the pro-level of the NFL that matters. Any undrafted free agent would produce at pretty much the exact same level and numbers if they just got the same amount of time on the field.

[The Tris]

I think the point people are trying to make Cali, is that we are doing a commendable job despite constantly tying our hand behind our back.

Until we stop doing that, its a stretch to say we are doing a "great' job.

[LetThePointsSoar]

Burg, you really need to stop with all your silly LOGIC and positivity....I'm going back with the rest of the sheep to bury my head in the sands of negativity... [/sarcasm] :silly:

[Califan007]

I think the point people are trying to make Cali, is that we are doing a commendable job despite constantly tying our hand behind our back.

Until we stop doing that, its a stretch to say we are doing a "great' job.
My point, though, is that I think some are undervaluing just how much the Redskins were able to get out of their lower round and undrafted rookies...especially when it's claimed that a team like the Packers somehow did significantly better.

[The Tris]

My point, though, is that I think some are undervaluing just how much the Redskins were able to get out of their lower round and undrafted rookies...especially when it's claimed that a team like the Packers somehow did significantly better.

I didn't claim the Packers, that was the resident Packer fan.

And we did do very well with our limited resources (and no real skill ahead of them I might add).

But if we can do that with what little we had, imagine the youth if we ever committed all our resources to draft picks and FAs. That truly would be a "great" rookie corp.

Until then, I will hope we aim higher, and that the ownership (as well as the fans) are happy but not satisfied with a crop like this year.

[Enter Apotheosis]

You saved me a lot of typing, Califan. The Packers are without a doubt a well-run organization that has made very good use of the offseason for years but Poker did seem to be overstating the contributions of a lot of the guys he listed.

[Califan007]

I didn't claim the Packers, that was the resident Packer fan.
I know, that's why I didn't say you did lol ;)...



And we did do very well with our limited resources (and no real skill ahead of them I might add).

But if we can do that with what little we had, imagine the youth if we ever committed all our resources to draft picks and FAs. That truly would be a "great" rookie corp.

Until then, I will hope we aim higher, and that the ownership (as well as the fans) are happy but not satisfied with a crop like this year.
Is there any reason why you would think the Redskins and their fans would NOT aim higher?

---------- Post added January-4th-2011 at 11:16 AM ----------


You saved me a lot of typing, Califan. The Packers are without a doubt a well-run organization that has made very good use of the offseason for years but Poker did seem to be overstating the contributions of a lot of the guys he listed.
Yeah, it was a bit obvious when reading his post lol :yes:...Unfortunately, for a lot of NFL fans the lower round/undrafted players only deserve praise or recognition when they're part of a winning team.

[PokerPacker]

My point, though, is that I think some are undervaluing just how much the Redskins were able to get out of their lower round and undrafted rookies...especially when it's claimed that a team like the Packers somehow did significantly better.

I still don't see how the redskins did great, though. You wanna say they got good value picking up others' castoffs? Fine, I'll go along with that. But you need more than just a few unexpected contributers; you need a complete draft, and that is something I don't see. I see a solid 1st round pick. I don't know much about Riley, but he hasn't contributed much. Terrence Austin has 3 receptions in 5 games. and then you have two offensive linemen who couldn't even make the 53 man roster over folks like Rabach and Heyer.

---------- Post added January-4th-2011 at 03:17 PM ----------


You saved me a lot of typing, Califan. The Packers are without a doubt a well-run organization that has made very good use of the offseason for years but Poker did seem to be overstating the contributions of a lot of the guys he listed.

not intending to be combative, but who's contribution did I overstate?

[Burgold]

I still don't see how the redskins did great, though. You wanna say they got good value picking up others' castoffs? Fine, I'll go along with that. But you need more than just a few unexpected contributers; you need a complete draft,

But they didn't have a full draft. You can only grade them on what they had and what they did with it. What I'm saying is that they uncovered a bunch of diamonds or at least several semi-precious stones with their draft and udfas.

Having a first, no second, no third, no fourth, and coming up with six contributing rookies? Pretty good. I don't want to get into the good vs. great argument.

[PokerPacker]

But they didn't have a full draft. You can only grade them on what they had and what they did with it. What I'm saying is that they uncovered a bunch of diamonds or at least several semi-precious stones with their draft and udfas.

Having a first, no second, no third, no fourth, and coming up with six contributing rookies? Pretty good. I don't want to get into the good vs. great argument.

You can talk about how good of a job the scouts did working with what they had. Hell, isn't there already a thread dedicated to the scouts? The title of this thread is your 2010 rookie corp (corps?). The point I am making is that how good your rookie corps is is not relative to the picks you had available, but rather the absolute of how good the players you got are.

[Burgold]

You can talk about how good of a job the scouts did working with what they had. Hell, isn't there already a thread dedicated to the scouts? The title of this thread is your 2010 rookie corp (corps?). The point I am making is that how good your rookie corps is is not relative to the picks you had available, but rather the absolute of how good the players you got are.

Yeah, and I'd say Williams, Armstrong, and Banks were fantastic pick ups (even more so on the value scale)
Torrain, K. Williams, and Riley were good pick ups.

Austin was a I don't know pick up. Paulson flashed a bit too.

Then we had garbage pick us.

Considering most of those guys were 7th round or worse... that's not a bad rookie corp. A bunch o' contributors and several starters.

[Thinking Skins]

My point, though, is that I think some are undervaluing just how much the Redskins were able to get out of their lower round and undrafted rookies...especially when it's claimed that a team like the Packers somehow did significantly better.

Don't overvalue what we've got (or what a team like the Packers got). These guys contributed and I'm not disappointed in them at all. In fact I'm glad we found them. The thing I see (as with most years) is that we (and many other teams) always find jewels in these UDFAs and late round picks. Thats why I never understood the signing of Larry Johnson, Philip Buchanan, Willie Parker, even Vonnie Holiday and whoever our starting NT was, and I REALLY don't understand why we are always so freaking excited about whoever the big name free agent is that year. I would have much rather we had signed some young guys at low salaries to compete for those spots. At least in my opinion, thats how a young team should be built.

If you look at the Packers roster, you'll find that they have a number of young players: I believe its 12 rookies. compare that to us who have only 8. And that 8 we have is largely because we had to sign players (rookies) due to injury, just like we were forced to play rookies due to injury. I think the only rookies who were on our opening day roster were T. Williams, K. Williams, and Logan Paulsen (and if you want to count Armstrong).

Most teams have an active group of young guys who are chopping at the bit to get playing time and waiting for the opportunity to shine. At the start of the season we didn't have this, and its a consequence of having the oldest roster in the league. Most of our backups were guys who were already proven to be non-starter material, or just too old to start (R. Williams, J. Galloway, A. Hicks, P. Daniels, etc).. Luckily when L. Johnson proved himself incapable of playing RB, we were able to sign Torrain and find a quality backup for Portis (for 2010). Same with how we were luckily able to keep Banks on the PS until we decided to cut Thomas.

[Big Blue Joe]

My point, though, is that I think some are undervaluing just how much the Redskins were able to get out of their lower round and undrafted rookies...especially when it's claimed that a team like the Packers somehow did significantly better.But it's kind of an apples and oranges comparison to judge the Packers and Redskins' scouting by how much their low round draft picks and UDFA's played. A talented team like the Packers is much less likely to start a UDFA, because he'll more than likely already have quality players in front of him on the depth chart. Teams like the Rams, Lions, or Bucs would be more appropriate comparisons to the Redskins.

[HailSkins83]

I think Perry Riley will take over for Mcintosh next year and we will not see any drop off...he plays tough when given the oppertunity..