Over the past three seasons, Cooley has six touchdowns and seven fumbles. Discuss.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Per zoony's request, here is my Chris Cooley thread.

He is probably the most popular Redskins, yet is always discussed here in trade scenarios because he is seen to have "value."

Here is my question, name the NFL teams that would swap their current tight end with Cooley and be happy about it. Keep in mind that part of the logic in the "trade Cooley" threads is that Fred Davis could be just as good. (Davis has nine touchdowns over the past two years for what it's worth).

When making your determination, don't just think about Cooley as a pass catcher; think of him as a blocker as well.

[JPCreativelab]

Per zoony's request, here is my Chris Cooley thread.

He is probably the most popular Redskins, yet is always discussed here in trade scenarios because he is seen to have "value."

Here is my question, name the NFL teams that would swap their current tight end with Cooley and be happy about it. Keep in mind that part of the logic in the "trade Cooley" threads is that Fred Davis could be just as good. (Davis has nine touchdowns over the past two years for what it's worth).

When making your determination, don't just think about Cooley as a pass catcher; think of him as a blocker as well.

i think none really. not that i want to see Cooley traded, i just dont see any team out there that would want to trade for him, maybe Carolina?

[Champskins]

Surprise sleeper pick, the Buffalo Bills. They have a few tight ends that will be FA's and really did not produce. They have also been very injury prone (same for Cooley I guess). I could see the Bills doing a trade of picks for Cooley in a heartbeat.

-I was at the Bills website a few days ago and their fan base is in an uproar over needing a reliable, blocking TE that can also catch passes and feel that they will be going after TE heavy in FA.... or trade in this case

[Byner21]

He's a really good receiver, doesn't drop TOO many balls. In any given game, he and Moss have often been the only thing going on offense the past few years. I do think he has decent trade value to many teams, but not interested in letting him go. His fumble/TD ratio (weird metric btw) is mostly a function of the crappy offenses he's been a part of...two fumbles per season is really not that bad considering his activity level. How often have you really been disappointed by his play? He's like the poor man's London Fletcher on offense (always solid, very rarely pisses you off, sometimes spectacular).

Keep him and Davis. You see what New England does with two good receiving TEs. Now we just need to find our Brady. :)

[charles mannley]

I like Cooley, but I would rather cheer for him while he is dropping balls for another team.

[KDawg]

I always find it funny when people add "Discuss" to their topics. :ols:

As far as the topic goes, you're on the money as far as how many touchdowns he's scored versus how many fumbles he's had. But we just don't seem to be targetting the tight end in the red zone much.

Cooley is a moderate to good blocker as well. I think there's a misconception of his blocking abilities. Almost no tight end is going to be able to go up against Justin Tuck and win every time.

To play along with the main part of the OP, though... Teams that would swap tight ends...

Buffalo
Denver
Cincinatti
Cleveland
Seattle
St. Louis
Kansas City
Oakland
Tennessee
Miami
New York Jets


Those are off the top of my head. Probably forgot someone :ols:

[ondawarpath]

Arizona could also be interested, they are in major need of another playmaker. After watching him drop so many balls this year Im not really sure anyone will be interested in him.

[JPCreativelab]

I always find it funny when people add "Discuss" to their topics. :ols:

As far as the topic goes, you're on the money as far as how many touchdowns he's scored versus how many fumbles he's had. But we just don't seem to be targetting the tight end in the red zone much.

Cooley is a moderate to good blocker as well. I think there's a misconception of his blocking abilities. Almost no tight end is going to be able to go up against Justin Tuck and win every time.

To play along with the main part of the OP, though... Teams that would swap tight ends...

Buffalo
Denver
Cincinatti
Cleveland
Seattle
St. Louis
Kansas City
Oakland
Tennessee
Miami
New York Jets


Those are off the top of my head. Probably forgot someone :ols:

well, im not familiar with all the TEs on those teams, but are you saying those teams would swap their top TE for Cooley? I would disagree then with Miami, Cincy, Oakland, and KC

[darklight1216]

I wouldn't even think of trading Todd Heap for him. The fans always shout "HEEEEAAAAPPP" when he makes a catch. You can't do that with Cooley.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

You know, this is a good point. I've been in favor of trading Cooley since last off-season, but I've even fallen into the trap of just assuming we'd get a 3rd for him. It's very possible that there isn't a huge market out there for him...in which case he's more valuable here as a player than as trade bait. As it turns out, if we're unable to get a decent pick for him, odds are we missed our window. I have to imagine that sometime over the past 1.5 years he was worth at least a 3rd.

[KDawg]

well, im not familiar with all the TEs on those teams, but are you saying those teams would swap their top TE for Cooley? I would disagree then with Miami, Cincy, Oakland, and KC

Chris Cooley > Anthony Fasano
Chris Cooley > Chase Coffman
Chris Cooley > Zach Miller
Chris Cooley > Tony Moeaki (although, the youth is a benefit)

There are a lot of teams who I feel have worse tight ends than Cooley, but due to age and familiarity with the systems I don't think they'd swap.

[justice98]

People are so quick to get rid of players without a better alternative.

[KDawg]

I wouldn't even think of trading Todd Heap for him. The fans always shout "HEEEEAAAAPPP" when he makes a catch. You can't do that with Cooley.

We yell "COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY YYYYY"

[J-bomb]

I always find it funny when people add "Discuss" to their topics. :ols:

As far as the topic goes, you're on the money as far as how many touchdowns he's scored versus how many fumbles he's had. But we just don't seem to be targetting the tight end in the red zone much.

Cooley is a moderate to good blocker as well. I think there's a misconception of his blocking abilities. Almost no tight end is going to be able to go up against Justin Tuck and win every time.

To play along with the main part of the OP, though... Teams that would swap tight ends...

Buffalo
Denver
Cincinatti-rookie gresham
Cleveland
Seattle
St. Louis
Kansas City-moiaki
Oakland-miller
Tennessee-scaife,cook
Miami
New York Jets-keller


Those are off the top of my head. Probably forgot someone :ols:

I don't think these teams would get rid of there rookies or proven vet TE's for cooley.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Cleveland has Ben Watson. I'm not convinced that Cooley would be THAT tremendous an upgrade over him. I think Cooley is better, but I don't know if it's by such a degree to intrigue them.

[charles mannley]

He's a really good receiver, doesn't drop TOO many balls. In any given game, he and Moss have often been the only thing going on offense the past few years. I do think he has decent trade value to many teams, but not interested in letting him go. His fumble/TD ratio (weird metric btw) is mostly a function of the crappy offenses he's been a part of...two fumbles per season is really not that bad considering his activity level. How often have you really been disappointed by his play? He's like the poor man's London Fletcher on offense (always solid, very rarely pisses you off, sometimes spectacular).

Keep him and Davis. You see what New England does with two good receiving TEs. Now we just need to find our Brady. :)

First off, not dropping TOO many balls, is dropping to many balls.

London Fletcher is a solid football player, if they were alike he'd be missing tackles left and right.

[Bat~man]

I love Cooley, but I wouldn't be opposed to trading him for picks.. he isn't as reliable as he's been in the past, part of that may be scheme and what he's asked to do, but we could find a solid blocking TE to replace him and use Davis as the receiving TE I would think.

I wouldn't trade him just to do it, but if the right deal came along that helped make our team better overall, it would be ok.

[McD5]

But he's a great blogger....

[KDawg]

I don't think these teams would get rid of there rookies or proven vet TE's for cooley.

I do.

Scaife isn't a great player.

Keller thrived with Favre but has been abysmal with Sanchez.

Gresham is okay, but I bet Cincy would take Cooley in a heart beat.

Moeaki is a good player, but again, I don't see them passing on Cooley if a decent deal came to pass. I also don't see them looking to acquire a tight end. But the question was: Who WOULD swap tight ends.

[zoony]

I would love to get a real sense of what he is worth. I feel like before his injury he was worth a 3rd or maybe a 2nd if we could do business with the Raiders. This year he is second among all tight ends with 77 catches. So, that's pretty good.

As an aside, I think "TDs" is the most over-rated stat in all of football. Why should a QB's rating shoot way up if he completes a pass in the paint rather than at the 3 yard line? What difference does it make in terms of how good a player the QB is? Same with receivers and RBs.

[KDawg]

Our fans are notorious for overrating our players... But with Cooley I think we severely underrate him. Ben Watson is more than a notch below Chris Cooley.

[darklight1216]

Chris Cooley > Anthony Fasano
Chris Cooley > Chase Coffman
Chris Cooley > Zach Miller
Chris Cooley > Tony Moeaki (although, the youth is a benefit)

There are a lot of teams who I feel have worse tight ends than Cooley, but due to age and familiarity with the systems I don't think they'd swap.
Coffman didn't start a single game this year and only played in six. If you're counting back-ups than you can probably use all 31 other teams.

Davon Drew for Chris Cooley, make it happen Ozzie. :hysterical:

[Warpath11]

Nobody in their right mind would trade for Chris Cooley especially with the huge FA class coming this season. A team could find adequate TEs on the open market without sacrificing a draft pick.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Here is my question, name the NFL teams that would swap their current tight end with Cooley and be happy about it.


You should never answer a question with a question, but meh, I'm in a pernickety (NO S) mood today so I'ma ignore that unwritten rule of politeness, and ask in return: Name the NFL team's with as big a complete rebuild right across the board as the Redskins still face, and little ammo to make inroads on that?

My heart say's I'd hate to see Cooley wearing any other teams colours. (WITH a U! Did I mention I was in a pernickety English mood today?). By far and away my favourite (WITH a U ..... oh you get it) current Redskin, both on and off the field. But my head say's we have a younger, faster, more athletic pass catching TE sat behind him who potentially can be just as good if not better, and a big, young, blocking TE in Logan Poulsen. Throw in Cooley's one of the very few tradable asset's we have, when we're desperate for picks; and my head overrules my heart on this one.

That said, if Chris is retained, we keep a top class player and win anyway. I'm good either way, but I seriously believe it would be to our detriment to not even explore the possibility of what's on offer.

Hail.

[GibbsFactor]

I wouldn't even think of trading Todd Heap for him. The fans always shout "HEEEEAAAAPPP" when he makes a catch. You can't do that with Cooley.

Shows how many Skins games you've heard.

[zoony]

another little known fact: you can't yell "coooley" when heap makes a catch

[War Paint]

Cooley doesn't drop many passes. He did have that one bad game a couple of weeks ago, but that was more of a bad day fluke, so those who are always calling for trading him cling to single games like that and try to blanket over his success. Plus he was injured last year and missed half the season. Look at his career stats. With Gibbs II, he averaged between 6-8 TDs a season. Then Zorn came and he had 1 TD in Zorn's first year. He had 2 in Zorn's second year, but only played seven games.

Honestly, I don't see us upgrading in talent if we traded him for a midround pick. Why are some so sure we will land a productive player who plays at a high level in the 3rd or 4th round? Cooley was a 3rd rounder, but that's a pretty good round for positions like TE.

[KDawg]

Coffman didn't start a single game this year and only played in six. If you're counting back-ups than you can probably use all 31 other teams.

Davon Drew for Chris Cooley, make it happen Ozzie. :hysterical:

For someone that didn't know that we chant "COOLEY!" after a big catch, your opinion means little, Raven fan ;)

[Drastik]

I always find it funny when people add "Discuss" to their topics. :ols:

As far as the topic goes, you're on the money as far as how many touchdowns he's scored versus how many fumbles he's had. But we just don't seem to be targetting the tight end in the red zone much.

Cooley is a moderate to good blocker as well. I think there's a misconception of his blocking abilities. Almost no tight end is going to be able to go up against Justin Tuck and win every time.

To play along with the main part of the OP, though... Teams that would swap tight ends...


Cincinatti
Oakland
New York Jets


Those are off the top of my head. Probably forgot someone :ols:
I would disagree with these teams. They all have stud tight ends

[J-bomb]

I do.

Scaife isn't a great player.

Keller thrived with Favre but has been abysmal with Sanchez.

Gresham is okay, but I bet Cincy would take Cooley in a heart beat.

Moeaki is a good player, but again, I don't see them passing on Cooley if a decent deal came to pass. I also don't see them looking to acquire a tight end. But the question was: Who WOULD swap tight ends.

That's cool cause it's your opinion but imo no way jets,titans,cincy or kc swap TE's for cooley. You are overrating cooley he is a good player but not elite or a game changer. This is just my opinion of our TE others will disagree but hey that's what ES is for!

[Chump Bailey]

Nobody in their right mind would trade for Chris Cooley especially with the huge FA class coming this season. A team could find adequate TEs on the open market without sacrificing a draft pick.

I really don't see any big names aside from Zach Miller and Marcedes Lewis. I doubt either team lets them hit the market.

I think Cutler and Martz would love to have Cooley. I think Olsen has worn out his welcome.

[IrepDC]

Cooley may be slightly better than some of those players, but is he enough of an upgrade that those teams would trade a valuable pick. Of course they'd swap players, but we are talking trade and that they're giving up a 3rd or 4th rounder.

[KDawg]

Cooley may be slightly better than some of those players, but is he enough of an upgrade that those teams would trade a valuable pick. Of course they'd swap players, but we are talking trade and that they're giving up a 3rd or 4th rounder.

The question was: Would they swap?

Would they trade is a different question ;)

[Tweedr01]

I wouldn't even think of trading Todd Heap for him. The fans always shout "HEEEEAAAAPPP" when he makes a catch. You can't do that with Cooley.
.....you've never been to a skins game have you? when he catches a ball the crowd isn't booing, they are shouting "COOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYY" and BTW heap is old as frickin dirt and really hasn't been good since 2006. I mean you look at the numbers, he's not anywhere close to cooleys, not even close

[Drastik]

Keller thrived with Favre but has been abysmal with Sanchez.
.
Keller has improved every year he's been in the league. His year with Favre was statistically his worst season.

[KDawg]

Keller has improved every year he's been in the league. His year with Favre was statistically his worst season.

Maybe I'm basing it on perception. His stats have improved, but I still think he was better with Favre by sight, not by statistics.

By the way, having read that over, I definitely shouldn't have used the word abysmal... Oops :ols:

[The Tris]

How many concussions has he had?

[Tweedr01]

another little known fact: you can't yell "coooley" when heap makes a catch
lol
another little known fact: you can't yell "heap" when cooley makes a catch

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I think TDs are an interesting stat. I'm not sure it's a great stat, but I think there is a difference between a ten-yard catch from the 50 versus a ten-yard catch from the 9. The defense's job is a lot easier at the 9. It's probably better to look at team red zone numbers versus individual TD catches. But, the fact that Fred Davis catches more TDs than Cooley is - to me - curious if nothing else.

In part, I think that scheme can get players open near the 50, but talent gets players open in the red zone. I may be over-stating that a bit, but it's something to consider.

The one area where TDs are without question a good stat are long TDs. It's almost certainly a combination of the QB and the receiver, but DeSean Jackson and Mike Wallace's ability to catch 40 yard TD passes is a value in and of itself.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Personally I'm impressed one could yell "HEEEEAAAAPPP" in public in Baltimore and not be set upon for people wrongly thinking you were talking about the City.

Things must be progressing up I95.

Hail.

[zoony]

Personally I'm impressed one could yell "HEEEEAAAAPPP" in public in Baltimore and not be set upon for people wrongly thinking you were talking about the City.

Things must be progressing up I95.

Hail.

ZING! :ols:

[jfriedenthal]

Cooley had two games where he really dropped balls. The first, he still had a concussion and was on the field. The second.... it happens, but overall he was VERY reliable. I don't get the hate. However, I still don't think our team warrants 3 solid TEs (because we don't use them, not because we couldn't use them).

[redskins804]

There should be a qualifying test before some people are allowed to post on this site for the sake and integrity of extreme skins. Allow me to explain....

One person claimed that Cooley drops too many passes... I guess that person based that notion on ONE game that didn't even matter. How can people forget that Cooley has been clutch and been catching balls in traffic ever since he arrived in washington. Even the Washington Post had a special last week about Cooley's incredible sure-handed-ness and how rare it is to have so many drops. So one bad half and now he is a dropper to some people lol?? Cooley has to be one of the most reliable players we have had in recent history and his best skill is finding the open field and becoming a BIG target for whomever our quarterback is...a luxury we can't afford to throw away for a low round pick.

Another thing, there is no way a team is willing to give up a significant pick for ANY tight end - especially not an older one. Unless the player is a freak athlete like Vernon Davis who consistently runs a seam route on point and catches balls in stride and is under the age of 27. And to be honest, I think if we made our very own Fred Davis run the same route, he could pull of the same type of plays but thats another story. The 49er's wouldn't be able to get more than a 2nd pick from a team that is stacked and just needs an extra piece like the COLTS. In any case, there is no way a team would give up more than a 4th rd pick if we are LUCKY. A 4th rd pick is nice to be had if you know your getting a guaranteed starter which is what Cooley is.... and thats not true.

So, keep cooley bc he isn't going anywhere...The only players that are going to be traded are Mcnab and Fat Boy... and we aren't getting anything better than 4th or 5th rounders for them

[Dan T.]

First things first. Cooley has lost only 4 fumbles his whole 7 year career. So LKB's thread title is misleading at best.

I posted this elsewhere, but it's worth looking at for comparison and potential value.

The Giants traded Jeremy Shockey to the Saints for a 2nd and a 5th. Shockey was a month shy of 28 at the time.
The Browns traded 26 year old Kellen Winslow the Buccaneers for a 2nd and a 5th.
The Chiefs traded 33 year old Tony Gonzales to the Falcons for a 2nd.

Chris Cooley is 28 years old.

[Mahons21]

People don't seem to understand Cooley is our biggest threat on offense, and teams game plan to take him out of the equation. If Cooley were on a team with a few more playmakers to take some of the heat, he would be making ridiculous plays.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

First things first. Cooley has lost only 4 fumbles his whole 7 year career. So LKB's thread title is misleading at best.

I posted this elsewhere, but it's worth looking at for comparison and potential value.

The Giants traded Jeremy Shockey to the Saints for a 2nd and a 5th. Shockey was a month shy of 28 at the time.

The Browns traded 26 year old Kellen Winslow the Buccaneers for a 2nd and a 5th.

The Chiefs traded 33 year old Tony Gonzales to the Falcons for a 2nd.

Chris Cooley is 28 years old.

Do you think Cooley is considered that class of athlete?

I know he is more productive than Winslow. But the reason teams trade for Winslow is the "Wow...if he could just put it all together...." factor.

The thing is, I think teams are terrified of Shockey, Winslow, and Gonzalez. Even if they don't produce, you have to account for them and prepare for them and change the way you do things on defense because of them. I think Fred Davis has that potential.

On the other hand, I think teams are willing to give Cooley 5 catches for 70 yards as the cost of doing business.

[addicted]

I always find it funny when people add "Discuss" to their topics. :ols:

Me too lol



As far as the topic goes, you're on the money as far as how many touchdowns he's scored versus how many fumbles he's had.

Is he? I want to point out that of those 7 fumbles only 3 of them were recovered by the other team. When it comes to other skill positions only the lost fumbles are meaningful so why would it be any different for a TE?

And as for proposed question I submit to the forum this:

Chris Cooley was second in the entire league this season in the number of times he caught the football for all Tight Ends.
Chris Cooley was third in the league for yards for all Tight Ends.
Chris Cooley was 3rd in the league with first down receptions for all Tight Ends

I suggest that every team in the league could be interested in Cooley if the price was right. Why wouldn't they? If you don't think that they would be then explain why



But we just don't seem to be targetting the tight end in the red zone much.

Is the measuring stick for a TE soley how many TD's they receive? If so the best TE's in the game today are:

Antonio Gates
Rob Gronkowski
Marcedes Lewis

Who all tied for first place for TE recieving TD's. The lack of TD's and the amount of TD's these men all had is all related to how they are used in the offenses they play in and not the only measuring stick for a TE's value

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

People don't seem to understand Cooley is our biggest threat on offense, and teams game plan to take him out of the equation. If Cooley were on a team with a few more playmakers to take some of the heat, he would be making ridiculous plays.

As I just said, I don't think teams gameplan around Cooley at all. I don't recall seeing him bracketed or double-teamed very often. Don't mistake productivity with being a "threat." Santana Moss can have one catch for eight yards and have had a bigger impact on the defense than Cooley.

[Mahons21]

. In any case, there is no way a team would give up more than a 4th rd pick if we are LUCKY. A 4th rd pick is nice to be had if you know your getting a guaranteed starter which is what Cooley is.... and thats not true.


So let me get this straight. Shockey warrants a 2nd and 5th, Cooley with similar numbers if not better, but a year older, only warrants a 4th rounder if we're lucky?


There should be a qualifying test before some people are allowed to post on this site for the sake and integrity of extreme skins
What makes you think you would have passed?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

For the record, fumble recoveries are meaningless. Football Outsiders has shown that recovering a fumble is strictly luck. The fact, that he's only lost 3 fumbles means nothing. It would mean nothing if he lost 7. It would mean nothing if he lost 0. The act of fumbling is more important.

[Mahons21]

As I just said, I don't think teams gameplan around Cooley at all. I don't recall seeing him bracketed or double-teamed very often.
Watch him in the RZ then, or watch him on 3rd down.


Don't mistake productivity with being a "threat." Santana Moss can have one catch for eight yards and have had a bigger impact on the defense than Cooley.
I'm not. Cooleys first four years TD totals are; 6,7,8,6 and his last 3 years are; 1,2,3. To me this can suggest two things either a.) Cooley declined during his prime, or b.) Teams began to realize how much of a RZ threat he is.

You don't think it's odd that in his rookie year he had as many TD's as the last 3 years combined?

[MLSKINS]

Young, these Cooley threads are crazy.

This man has been balling since he came to the league. The few times our offense is clicking, it is when Cooley is involved. I blame the coordinators and the QB for the numbers Cooley has and not Cooley.

As far as Fred Davis goes, he is a beast, I am not going to lie. But I rather have both of them instead of one and a 4th round pick.

Stop trying to trade out TE and start trying to get them more involved.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Watch him in the RZ then, or watch him on 3rd down.


I'm not. Cooleys first four years TD totals are; 6,7,8,6 and his last 3 years are; 1,2,3. To me this can suggest two things either a.) Cooley declined during his prime, or b.) Teams began to realize how much of a RZ threat he is.

You don't think it's odd that in his rookie year he had as many TD's as the last 3 years combined?

His first year, he was playing more of a true H-back spot. That started to go away as Gibbs began modernizing his offense before finally just giving it to Saunders.

[Dan T.]

Do you think Cooley is considered that class of athlete?

I know he is more productive than Winslow. But the reason teams trade for Winslow is the "Wow...if he could just put it all together...." factor.

The thing is, I think teams are terrified of Shockey, Winslow, and Gonzalez. Even if they don't produce, you have to account for them and prepare for them and change the way you do things on defense because of them. I think Fred Davis has that potential.

On the other hand, I think teams are willing to give Cooley 5 catches for 70 yards as the cost of doing business.

I think he's every bit the tight end that Shockey is. Is he as athletically gifted as Winslow? No. Is he as good a tight end? I would argue yes. Gonzales is the best tight end of his era, so he's a bit of an outlyer. Still it's telling that even at 33 the Falcons were willing to give up a 2nd for him to fill the hole left by Alge Crumpler.

[Mahons21]

His first year, he was playing more of a true H-back spot. That started to go away as Gibbs began modernizing his offense before finally just giving it to Saunders.

And in Saunders first year Cooley had the highest TD total of his career. 2 more TDs than he has had the past 3 seasons combined.

That doesn't explain how Cooley went from 8 TD's to 1 the following season.

[KingGibbs]

I wouldn't even think of trading Todd Heap for him. The fans always shout "HEEEEAAAAPPP" when he makes a catch. You can't do that with Cooley.

For a Ravens fan you sure do have a lot of interest in the Redskins. I understand though because Ravens fans aren't capable of building a site on the same intellectual level as a 'skins fan.

Anyhoo, in regards to Cooley. He is just another player that has become over-rated by 'skins fans.Don't get me wrong, I like him, but he just seems to disappear in long stretches. he also has a habit for dropping balls at crucial times. By that I mean his drops are drive killers and that endzone drop a few weeks ago? Ouch. I still have visions of him dropping that pass inside the ten in the playoff game against Seattle.

I know he is beloved by 'skins fans but reality is he isn't even a top ten TE anymore. It's always the same excuse "He isn't targeted enough." You know this how?

Whenever a Redskin is playing poorly or has a bad game fans criticize them. Cooley isn't exempt from criticism. I personally think Fred Davis is capable of being a better TE then Cooley.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

And in Saunders first year Cooley had the highest TD total of his career. 2 more TDs than he has had the past 3 seasons combined.

That doesn't explain how Cooley went from 8 TD's to 1 the following season.

We can just call it an outlier and move on if you want. Albert Connel once had a 1,000-yard season. That doesn't mean he was good. Brandon Lloyd might stink again next year. **** happens over a 16-game schedule. Hell, Mike Sellers once caught 7 TD passes in a season.

[Boss_Hogg]

:Flame Suit On:

I've always thought Cooley was overrated. He thrived as an H-Back in the Gibbs offense, but as a traditional pass catching/blocking TE, he's not very good.

[Mahons21]

We can just call it an outlier and move on if you want. Albert Connel once had a 1,000-yard season. That doesn't mean he was good. Brandon Lloyd might stink again next year. **** happens over a 16-game schedule. Hell, Mike Sellers once caught 7 TD passes in a season.
His first four seasons; 6,7,6,8. How is that 8 an outlier? His first 5 seasons.. 6,7,6,8,1. I would suggest that the 1 TD season is much more of an outlier than the 8 TD season.

[Botched]

FWIW, Jason Witten and Tony Gonzalez have each had 3 seasons where they caught 2 or fewer TDs.

[addicted]

For the record, fumble recoveries are meaningless. Football Outsiders has shown that recovering a fumble is strictly luck. The fact, that he's only lost 3 fumbles means nothing. It would mean nothing if he lost 7. It would mean nothing if he lost 0. The act of fumbling is more important.

Ok so Cooley lead all TE's with 3 fumbles this season with the second place going to the leading TD catcher Marcedes Lewis which only further drives home the complexity of this. If Fumbles in your eye means that people wouldn't want a player and TD's are the measuring stick for value of a player then what do you say about Lewis? TD leader, and 2nd overall in Fumbles. And further Chris Cooley had 3 fumbles and was targeted 126 times this year (1 fumble every 42 targets). Lewis was targeted 88 times and had 2 fumbles (1 fumble every 44 targets). However this was Cooley's high fumble number for his career as was Lewis's however before this season he was never used as a pass catcher like this,

My point is that you can't use Fumbles and TD's like this when judging the worth of a player and I do believe depending on the asking price every single team would be interested in Chris Cooley. If you disagree then explain why because he has all the numbers of an elite TE so to say no teams going to be interested in him is silly.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

:Flame Suit On:

I've always thought Cooley was overrated. He thrived as an H-Back in the Gibbs offense, but as a traditional pass catching/blocking TE, he's not very good.

I won't flame you as I agree he's overrated, though I'd stop short of calling him "not very good" as a TE. I think he's average or slightly above.

[KDawg]

Is he? I want to point out that of those 7 fumbles only 3 of them were recovered by the other team. When it comes to other skill positions only the lost fumbles are meaningful so why would it be any different for a TE?

Yes. I view fumbles as a turnover opportunity. Whether you regain them or not, you give the opposing team a chance at the football. I view all skill positions the same. Just as I view forced fumbles as a better defensive stat than fumble recoveries.


Is the measuring stick for a TE soley how many TD's they receive? If so the best TE's in the game today are:

No. Of course not. Touchdowns are an odd stat on their own. A one yard touchdown is just as good as a 99 yard touchdown in the stat book.

[derskinsfan]

Cooley is a fan favorite (and a personal favorite) mostly because of his personality and name.

He's fun. He makes some good plays. He's a nice target against zone defenses in particular (knows how to find the soft spots).

But if he were the exact same player with the same stats and had a boring to not-so-notable personality and a name like Chris Jones... we would probably all be open to trading him for a third or fourth round pick given the state of the team.

This season in particular, I sometimes wondered if he is ultimately a crucial threat for a winning offense or more of a lovable dude in a losing situation.

[skins25]

People are so quick to get rid of players without a better alternative.

fred davis has 9 td's in the last 2 seasons and has 0 fumbles

[addicted]

No. Of course not. Touchdowns are an odd stat on their own. A one yard touchdown is just as good as a 99 yard touchdown in the stat book.

That's the point I'm making here. LKB has taken two different things and using them asked the question who would want this guy? The answer is only correctly stated "Depends on the price" because without knowing that all 31 teams would want him if we were asking for a 2020 seventh round draft pick lol. Just another crazy LKB thread

[Dan T.]

Anyhoo, in regards to Cooley. He is just another player that has become over-rated by 'skins fans.Don't get me wrong, I like him, but he just seems to disappear in long stretches. he also has a habit for dropping balls at crucial times. By that I mean his drops are drive killers and that endzone drop a few weeks ago? Ouch. I still have visions of him dropping that pass inside the ten in the playoff game against Seattle.

I know he is beloved by 'skins fans but reality is he isn't even a top ten TE anymore. It's always the same excuse "He isn't targeted enough." You know this how?

Whenever a Redskin is playing poorly or has a bad game fans criticize them. Cooley isn't exempt from criticism. I personally think Fred Davis is capable of being a better TE then Cooley.


:Flame Suit On:

I've always thought Cooley was overrated. He thrived as an H-Back in the Gibbs offense, but as a traditional pass catching/blocking TE, he's not very good.


Cold hard numbers prove you both wrong.

[Annonymous Source]

I wouldn't even think of trading Todd Heap for him. The fans always shout "HEEEEAAAAPPP" when he makes a catch. You can't do that with Cooley.

Not sure if joking. Whenever Cooley catches a pass it is the exact same thing. The only problem is that his name can sound like BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO sometimes.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

That's the point I'm making here. LKB has taken two different things and using them asked the question who would want this guy? The answer is only correctly stated "Depends on the price" because without knowing that all 31 teams would want him if we were asking for a 2020 seventh round draft pick lol. Just another crazy LKB thread

I don't actually think the fumbles thing is important in the big scheme of things. I just think it's odd that he has fumbled more than he has caught TD passes.

On the list of things that are wrong with Cooley "Fumbles too much" is not very high.

[sknz45]

The only reason Davis has so many touchdowns is because the Skins put him in only on the goal line where Cooley draws double coverage or is used as a decoy which leaves Davis WIDE open. I admit Cooley has had some drop ball issues this year but dude plays hard, he fights for every yard and he loves being a Skin. Most fumbles can be attributed to fighting for more yardage. Am I saying Davis sucks...NO....he is a talent as well just not quite as talented or determined as Cooley. Fact is we need to get both TE's MORE involved. The only way we do that is with improved line play so Cooley doesn't have to stay in and block so much.

[Tweedr01]

I don't actually think the fumbles thing is important in the big scheme of things. I just think it's odd that he has fumbled more than he has caught TD passes.

On the list of things that are wrong with Cooley "Fumbles too much" is not very high.
uh, how long is this list of things that are wrong with cooley? care to share this list?

[justice98]

fred davis has 9 td's in the last 2 seasons and has 0 fumbles

In 43 games, he has 72 catches, it's easier to not fumble the ball when you barely have opportunities.

If you think Fred Davis is a better overall TE than Chris Cooley, more power to you then, I guess.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

In 43 games, he has 72 catches, it's easier to not fumble the ball when you barely have opportunities.
He'll have plenty of opportunities when he leaves as a free agent. :(

---------- Post added January-5th-2011 at 05:51 PM ----------


Am I saying Davis sucks...NO....he is a talent as well just not quite as talented or determined as Cooley.

That's debatable. Very debatable.

[surferskin]

I'd trade him in a second for a 3rd rounder or better. Or we could hang onto him as his skills slowly diminish as we rebuild this crapass team.

[SkinsFTW]

How many TD's has he dropped. Considering he only has 6 TD's and I can remember at least 2 drops, it would be interesting if he has more dropped TD's than TD's.

[RabidFan]

trade cooley for ryan fitzpatrick

[Mooka]

I'd say Cooley's worth a 4th rounder if anything. Don't see the demand there with so many receiving TE's coming out of the woodworks these days.

Tampa got Winslow for a 2nd and 5th coming off of an injury but that was 2 years ago.

[Xero21]

I love how a TE who can get 800 yards in each of two years during some of the worst offensive production I've ever seen can be called average and overrated just because he hasn't gotten many TDs.

Newsflash people: Our entire team has struggled to score TDs. Stop over-thinking this. Cooley is a great football player who knows how to get open, despite not being very fast. Not every TE has to be a Kellen Winslow type of athlete.

Have you seen Cooley after he catches the ball? He gains yards that he shouldn't be able to. He's a great player. If you want to trade him for picks because we are rebuilding, then just say that. But don't delude yourself by thinking he's somehow deteriorating or not as good as he is.

[moondog]

I always find it funny when people add "Discuss" to their topics. :ols:

As far as the topic goes, you're on the money as far as how many touchdowns he's scored versus how many fumbles he's had. But we just don't seem to be targetting the tight end in the red zone much.

Cooley is a moderate to good blocker as well. I think there's a misconception of his blocking abilities. Almost no tight end is going to be able to go up against Justin Tuck and win every time.

To play along with the main part of the OP, though... Teams that would swap tight ends...

Buffalo
Denver
Cincinatti
Cleveland
Seattle
St. Louis
Kansas City
Oakland
Tennessee
Miami
New York Jets


Those are off the top of my head. Probably forgot someone :ols:

I know the original question was who would "swap" their tight end but I think what is meant is who would give us a valuable draft pick (perhaps at least a 3rd rounder) for Cooley.

There is no way that Oakland, Kansas City, Miami, Cincinnati or the Jets trade for Cooley. They all have young, productive tight ends, many of whom are higher draft picks than Cooley was. The rest on this list may give us something decent for him.

Secondly, if you look at the numbers over the last two years:

Cooley has 106 catches, averages about 11.1 YPC, and scores on less than 5% of his catches (4.7%). He also has fumbled the ball four times the past two years - once less than his TD count. He's led the league at his position in fumbles 2 of the last 3 years. Cooley had 1 catch of 20+ yards last year. He had 9 catches of 20+ yards this year and 0 catches for 40+.

Davis has 69 catches, averages 11.95 YPC, and scores on 13% of his catches. He has never fumbled the ball in his career and has 9 TD in limited playing time over the past two seasons. He had two 50+ yard catches this year. Davis had 4 catches of 20+ yards last year. Out of only 21 receptions this year, Davis had 4 that went for 20+ yards and 2 that were 40+.

Cooley may be a slightly better blocker but I don't think it's by much. Davis has proven that he can and will make big plays regardless of who is behind Center, he finds the endzone, he doesn't drop the ball and obviously does not fumble.

[KDawg]

I know the original question was who would "swap" their tight end but I think what is meant is who would give us a valuable draft pick (perhaps at least a 3rd rounder) for Cooley.

That wasn't the question posed, as you pointed out. So debating whether or not I was right about who would trade for Cooley doesn't prove much of anything. That's not the question I answered.

[moondog]

Here is my question, name the NFL teams that would swap their current tight end with Cooley and be happy about it.

KDawg, you sure about that?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

People don't seem to understand Cooley is our biggest threat on offense, and teams game plan to take him out of the equation. If Cooley were on a team with a few more playmakers to take some of the heat, he would be making ridiculous plays.

Cooley WAS our biggest threat on offense.

Then we hired an OC that's had little comprehension of how to utilize the few real talented players he has at his disposal.

Hopefully he learns from his mistakes and get's FreddyD and Cooley, if he's retained, heavily involved next year.

Hail.

[Boss_Hogg]

Cold hard numbers prove you both wrong.

More fumbles than TDs aren't good numbers.

[moondog]

Nevermind KDawg, I see what you are saying. I still mainly disagree that the teams I listed would happily swap with us (the valuable draft pick thing aside). Zach Miller, Dustin Keller and Jermaine Gresham are all very high quality tight ends. Kansas City and Miami may trade although KC had a rookie (Moeaki) who posted 47 catches for 556 yards and 3 TD's this year. I'd say they'd probably be happier just sticking with him as well.

[skins25]

Cooley WAS our biggest threat on offense.

Then we hired an OC that's had little comprehension of how to utilize the few real talented players he has at his disposal.

Hopefully he learns from his mistakes and get's FreddyD and Cooley, if he's retained, heavily involved next year.

Hail.

100 catches and 1150 yards is pretty involved I would say, throw in about 10 drops, 2 of them being sure td's and I would say the TE's are more involved in Washington than 28 other teams.

[jwpanic]

the jets coaching staff LOVES keller.no way they would swap him for cooley.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I think the recent development of competent TEs out of nowhere (NE's two rookies, NO's basketball player Graham, etc.) hurts Cooley's value.

[zoony]

There should be a qualifying test before some people are allowed to post on this site for the sake and integrity of extreme skins. Allow me to explain....

Another thing, there is no way a team is willing to give up a significant pick for ANY tight end - especially not an older one. Unless the player is a freak athlete like Vernon Davis who consistently runs a seam route on point and catches balls in stride and is under the age of 27.



followed by:



The Giants traded Jeremy Shockey to the Saints for a 2nd and a 5th. Shockey was a month shy of 28 at the time.
The Browns traded 26 year old Kellen Winslow the Buccaneers for a 2nd and a 5th.
The Chiefs traded 33 year old Tony Gonzales to the Falcons for a 2nd.

Chris Cooley is 28 years old.


:ols: :ols: :ols:

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

100 catches and 1150 yards is pretty involved I would say, throw in about 10 drops, 2 of them being sure td's and I would say the TE's are more involved in Washington than 28 other teams.

Fred Davis had a mere 21 catches all year, through which he had 4 plays in the mid-range 20-40 yard bracket, and 2 over 40; with 11 first downs. Dude's a serious production threat every time he touches the ball. Which again was for a WHOPPING 21 times through 16 games. Credit to Cooley for a career high in receptions, but how often has he been totally ignored until the 4th quarter this year, often kept in to block? And given the threat he's been in the past in the red zone, he's been woefully under used down there.

We've had next to nothing receiving wise outside of Moss and Armstrong, so to leave Davis alone more or less totally out the picture beggars belief.

Sorry, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree; but I honestly don't see how a claim can be made for the TE's being used to the full extent their talent and threat warrants this year.

Hail.

[Mr. Cooke]

Per zoony's request, here is my Chris Cooley thread.

He is probably the most popular Redskins, yet is always discussed here in trade scenarios because he is seen to have "value."

Here is my question, name the NFL teams that would swap their current tight end with Cooley and be happy about it. Keep in mind that part of the logic in the "trade Cooley" threads is that Fred Davis could be just as good. (Davis has nine touchdowns over the past two years for what it's worth).

When making your determination, don't just think about Cooley as a pass catcher; think of him as a blocker as well.


You had me at "swap their current tight end".

[Dan T.]

More fumbles than TDs aren't good numbers.

33 Touchdowns scored, 4 fumbles lost. Good numbers.

[Chump Bailey]

Have you seen Cooley after he catches the ball? He gains yards that he shouldn't be able to.

That is precisely what distinguishes him from the rest IMO. Cooley 98% of the time is getting postive yards.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

That is precisely what distinguishes him from the rest IMO. Cooley 98% of the time is getting postive yards.

What does that even mean? How often does a pass-catcher lose yards on a reception? Maybe it happens 5 times per year across an entire team?

Are you talking about yards after the catch? If so, I believe Davis does a nice job there as well.

[Dirt]

How many of Fred Davis' touchdowns/big plays occured when Cooley was on the field with him? Like, every time, or not at all? Does this mean anything? Just a thought.

[darklight1216]

.....you've never been to a skins game have you? when he catches a ball the crowd isn't booing, they are shouting "COOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYY" and BTW heap is old as frickin dirt and really hasn't been good since 2006. I mean you look at the numbers, he's not anywhere close to cooleys, not even close
It was a joke. You can't, or at least shouldn't, yell "Heap" if Cooley makes a catch.

What numbers are you looking at? Heap may have significantly less yards but he has more touchdowns (5,6,3 in the last three years compared to Cooleys 3,2,1). I like him as a blocker too.

As far as age goes, you do realize that I'm a fan of team that has Ray Lewis and Derrick Mason, right? (And Cooley is just two years younger.)

[DieselPwr44]

One thing in Cooley's defense: take a look at who's been throwing the ball around here the last few years.

It's like watching the old Hal Roach "Our Gang" play football when it comes to the guys under center.

[Chump Bailey]

What does that even mean? How often does a pass-catcher lose yards on a reception? Maybe it happens 5 times per year across an entire team?

Are you talking about yards after the catch? If so, I believe Davis does a nice job there as well.

Of course I'm talking about YAC. You're telling me that you've never seen CC break tackles and get more yards than he originally would? He does that routinely. I'm not getting your point and CC is the amongst the best, if not the best, i've seen do that. Davis does a good job too, but not as good as CC.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Of course I'm talking about YAC. You're telling me that you've never seen CC break tackles and get more yards than he originally would? He does that routinely. I'm not getting your point.

No, I've noticed that. You said "positive yardage" which confused me.

Yes, Cooley gets yards after his catch, just as Davis has proven he can do too. I don't think Cooley does it any better than Davis does.

Just checked...

Cooley has 77 catches for 849 yards with 366 YAC. That works out to 43% of his yardage coming after the catch (4.8 per catch).
Davis has 21 catches for 316 yards with 165 YAC. That works out to 52% of his yardage coming after the catch (7.9 per catch).

So, Cooley does fine, but we have a backup who is better.

[Chump Bailey]

No, I've noticed that. You said "positive yardage" which confused me.

Yes, Cooley gets yards after his catch, just as Davis has proven he can do too. I don't think Cooley does it any better than Davis does.

Just checked...

Cooley has 77 catches for 849 yards with 366 YAC. That works out to 43% of his yardage coming after the catch (4.8 per catch).
Davis has 21 catches for 316 yards with 165 YAC. That works out to 52% of his yardage coming after the catch (7.9 per catch).

So, Cooley does fine, but we have a backup who is better.

I get that you like Davis - so do I. I don't think you are giving CC nearly enough credit for what he's done over the years.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I get that you like Davis - so do I. I don't think you are giving CC nearly enough credit for what he's done over the years.

How so? I've said he's a good player who has been overrated. I don't recall your initial stance in this thread. All I've ever argued is that I'd happily take a 3rd round pick for him. Would you not (knowing that we have a younger Davis behind him)?

[rookieskin]

I think that CC has lost his focus, and as much as I like him, Davis is the better long-term option at this time.

[Chump Bailey]

How so? I've said he's a good player who has been overrated. I don't recall your initial stance in this thread. All I've ever argued is that I'd happily take a 3rd round pick for him. Would you not (knowing that we have a younger Davis behind him)?

Overrated? I think you would be very hard pressed to find anyone, aside from message board fans, that would agree with you at all. I would trade him also, but I think he deserves much more credit than you apparently. I don't think he's overrated one bit - you do. So be it.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Overrated? I think you would be very hard pressed to find anyone, aside from message board fans, that would agree with you at all. I would trade him also, but I think he deserves much more credit than you apparently. I don't think he's overrated one bit - you do. So be it.

Well, you have a good point...I think his value and, more specifically his trade value, are overrated ON THIS BOARD. I'm not sure he's overrated by NFL experts, other teams, etc.

Sure, I can agree to disagree...again, recall that I'm stating that I believe he's a good player. Nothing more, certainly nothing less.

[tiger187126]

this is what i've been trying to say. this team has been so bad for so long we don't have players that are value to other teams. i mean look at the guys we cut. they don't go on to have great years other places. (well except brandon "**** you" lloyd, but i still contend he's a one hit wonder).

[Botched]

I know the original question was who would "swap" their tight end but I think what is meant is who would give us a valuable draft pick (perhaps at least a 3rd rounder) for Cooley.

There is no way that Oakland, Kansas City, Miami, Cincinnati or the Jets trade for Cooley. They all have young, productive tight ends, many of whom are higher draft picks than Cooley was. The rest on this list may give us something decent for him.

Secondly, if you look at the numbers over the last two years:

Cooley has 106 catches, averages about 11.1 YPC, and scores on less than 5% of his catches (4.7%). He also has fumbled the ball four times the past two years - once less than his TD count. He's led the league at his position in fumbles 2 of the last 3 years. Cooley had 1 catch of 20+ yards last year. He had 9 catches of 20+ yards this year and 0 catches for 40+.

Davis has 69 catches, averages 11.95 YPC, and scores on 13% of his catches. He has never fumbled the ball in his career and has 9 TD in limited playing time over the past two seasons. He had two 50+ yard catches this year. Davis had 4 catches of 20+ yards last year. Out of only 21 receptions this year, Davis had 4 that went for 20+ yards and 2 that were 40+.

Cooley may be a slightly better blocker but I don't think it's by much. Davis has proven that he can and will make big plays regardless of who is behind Center, he finds the endzone, he doesn't drop the ball and obviously does not fumble.

Most of Davis' big plays this year, were plays where he was forgotten by the defense (probably because someone else was double covered), we lobbed him a pass downfield with no defenders within 10 yards of him, and he ran a few yards before being caught from behind. It's not like he was running over defenders on his way to 50 yard TDs.

I'm also not sure what you mean about Davis not dropping the ball. He dropped a TD and a 2pt conversion in the Detroit game, and another TD in the 2nd Dallas game. I'm also pretty sure he lead the team in drop percentage last year, although I only remember him dropping one TD. It was in the second Giants game.

Cooley drops a TD in a meaningless game -that we won anyway-, and it's huge news. I don't get it. Seems like people only remember when Moss and Cooley drop passes, I don't know why.

[Boss_Hogg]

33 Touchdowns scored, 4 fumbles lost. Good numbers.

A fumble is a fumble

A lost fumble is just as bad as a recovered fumble

Cooley has 11 fumbles in 7 years.

Compare to the elite Tight ends:

Jason Witten - 4 fumbles in 8 years
Tony Gonzalez - 6 fumbles in 14 years
Dallas Clark - 5 fumbles in 8 years
Antonio Gates - 3 fumbles in 8 years
Heath Miller - 4 fumbles in 6 years
Todd Heap - 6 fumbles in 10 years

I wish there was a stat for TE drops as I'm sure Cooley would lead that category as well.

Edit: I found that information on NFL.COM

[UK SKINS FAN '74]

The Chiefs traded 33 year old Tony Gonzales to the Falcons for a 2nd.

And the Falcons will be looking for an established TE again if Gonzales retires..

[Boss_Hogg]

One thing in Cooley's defense: take a look at who's been throwing the ball around here the last few years.

It's like watching the old Hal Roach "Our Gang" play football when it comes to the guys under center.

True, we have had some fugly QBs but unless Brunell drooled all over the football Cooley shouldn't have fumbled 11 times in seven seasons.

[ABSTRACT]

Cooley is so overrated and I have been sick of his play for the past 3 years. Great funny guy to listen to every Monday....but I want to see production on the field. Yes he is behind Witten and #2 in yards but he drops too many balls and fumbles way too much. Not dependable enough to me. I want an athletic guy like Fred Davis and I really like Paulsen as well because he can block and catch the ball. I'd trade Cooley for a 2nd, 3rd, and even a 4th in a second.

[Shabby]

I always find it funny when people add "Discuss" to their topics. :ols:

As far as the topic goes, you're on the money as far as how many touchdowns he's scored versus how many fumbles he's had. But we just don't seem to be targetting the tight end in the red zone much.

Cooley is a moderate to good blocker as well. I think there's a misconception of his blocking abilities. Almost no tight end is going to be able to go up against Justin Tuck and win every time.

To play along with the main part of the OP, though... Teams that would swap tight ends...

Buffalo
Denver
Cincinatti
Cleveland
Seattle
St. Louis
Kansas City
Oakland
Tennessee
Miami
New York Jets


Those are off the top of my head. Probably forgot someone :ols:

I dont see tennessee trading jared cook jr for cooley. Dudes a beast. Also, i dont see the jets trading keller (sp?). Other than that, i agree with you.

[Chip80]

Gosh. I remember a little over a year ago more than a few loudly saying that Cooley was a "Top Five Tight End."

Guess that's not the case, huh?

[WALL-LE]

well, im not familiar with all the TEs on those teams, but are you saying those teams would swap their top TE for Cooley? I would disagree then with Miami, Cincy, Oakland, and KC

lol who do miami, KC and Oakland have that are better than cooley?
Cincy wouldnt because gresham is young but other than that Cooley is better

[moondog]

Most of Davis' big plays this year, were plays where he was forgotten by the defense (probably because someone else was double covered), we lobbed him a pass downfield with no defenders within 10 yards of him, and he ran a few yards before being caught from behind. It's not like he was running over defenders on his way to 50 yard TDs.

I'm also not sure what you mean about Davis not dropping the ball. He dropped a TD and a 2pt conversion in the Detroit game, and another TD in the 2nd Dallas game. I'm also pretty sure he lead the team in drop percentage last year, although I only remember him dropping one TD. It was in the second Giants game.

Cooley drops a TD in a meaningless game -that we won anyway-, and it's huge news. I don't get it. Seems like people only remember when Moss and Cooley drop passes, I don't know why.

I agree with what you're saying in terms of Davis being left alone in coverage or a defender falling down, but hey, it happens. Davis proved last year as our only receiving tight end that he can make big plays both before and after he gets the ball. If you want to talk about Davis' two drops in Detroit - go back and watch them. Not a single guy on our team was going to catch a poorly placed ball thrown at 90 mph from three yards away, as proven by the other guys in that game that dropped similar passes not only in that game but others as well (i.e. Moss' drop on a slant at our own five yard line - forget which game).

Yes, players other than Cooley and Moss drop balls. AND I love Cooley, always has. With the exception of this year, I think it's been a pretty strong consensus Cooley has had the best hands on the team over the years (he and Moss get labeled or remembered for their drops because they are our best receivers so when they drop or fumble in big situations like the playoff game in Seattle or Moss' fumble against GB etc). Cooley does rack up yards after catch and although it does seem confusing as to how he breaks the tackles (he even had a blog or interview about it) he still does it.

I just honestly think Davis is the bigger offensive threat and can/will be the better overall player in this offense. I think he is more physical with the ball after the catch and more productive with his opportunities.

Finally, I do not think Cooley is overrated in any way shape or form in terms of production or ability - here or around the league. But, I just have a hard time seeing too many teams parting ways with worthy compensation for Cooley. I KNOW that tight ends both young and old have garnered great picks for the teams that traded them. For some reason I just can't see us getting what he's worth, but if someone did offer us a 3rd and a 5th or something it would be worth it, not just because we get something valuable for Cooley but also because we get Davis on the field more.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Bottomline: Its going to come down to Davis or Cooley. And I'm talking within the next year.

[Skin'Em84]

Actually, Chris Cooley is 2nd in receptions for TEs this year, and 3rd in yards, and 2nd in receptions/4th in yards in 2008 (his last full season). in 2007 he was 5th in receptions, 5th in yards and 3rd in TDs. I'll still take Cooley over most TEs in the game.

[tiger187126]

Actually, Chris Cooley is 2nd in receptions for TEs this year, and 3rd in yards, and 2nd in receptions/4th in yards in 2008 (his last full season). in 2007 he was 5th in receptions, 5th in yards and 3rd in TDs. I'll still take Cooley over most TEs in the game.

exactly. we would take cooley. no need to get rid of him.

but no team is going to be beating down the door looking to give up picks for him.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Bottomline: Its going to come down to Davis or Cooley. And I'm talking within the next year.

Cooley signed a 6-year contract in 2008. He ain't going anywhere. 2011 is the last year of Davis' contract. He will probably be attractive on the free agent market.

My guess is Cooley outlasts Davis, which is fine. Two tight ends are a luxury.

[tiger187126]

Cooley signed a 6-year contract in 2008. He ain't going anywhere. 2011 is the last year of Davis' contract. He will probably be attractive on the free agent market.

My guess is Cooley outlasts Davis, which is fine. Two tight ends are a luxury.

especially when we have a guy like paulson who can block and play a little FB too.

[ChillSkinzFan84]

I said we would have to trade cooley the second we drafted fred davis. Back then people acted like that was blasphemy. Now people are on board with it. Some people just don't have forseight.

Cooley is a great player but we woukdnt be losing much in trading him. Davis is almost his equal plus he's younger and more athletic. We need draft picks to build this team. I also said we should trade andre carter 2 years ago and people thought I was crazy. Now his trade value has dropped and we may have to cut him. He already is demanding a trade so keeping him is not a option.

But back to cooley, back in 05 this team proved to me that they weren't winners and didn't have the heart it takes to be a perinial winner or contender year after year, so I feel that its time tov move on and get some youth in here.

I luv cooley as a player but his nonchalaunt attitude has been bothering me, he also made some of the same comments that portis was ripped for. People say its baggage with portis but its in one ear and out the other for cooley.

Like I said he's a great player but its time to move on and let the young guys play...both davis and paulsen. By the time we are yearly contenders cooley will be on the downside of his career anyway.

[ChillSkinzFan84]

I said we would have to trade cooley the second we drafted fred davis. Back then people acted like that was blasphemy. Now people are on board with it. Some people just don't have forseight.

Cooley is a great player but we wouldnt be losing much in trading him. Davis is almost his equal plus he's younger and more athletic. We need draft picks to build this team. I also said we should trade andre carter 2 years ago and people thought I was crazy. Now his trade value has dropped and we may have to cut him. He already is demanding a trade so keeping him is not a option.

But back to cooley, back in 05 this team proved to me that they weren't winners and didn't have the heart it takes to be a perinial winners or contenders year after year, so I feel that its time to move on and get some youth in here.

I luv cooley as a player but his nonchalaunt attitude has been bothering me, he also made some of the same comments that portis was ripped for. People say its baggage with portis but its in one ear and out the other for cooley.

Like I said he's a great player but its time to move on and let the young guys play...both davis and paulsen. By the time we are yearly contenders cooley will be on the downside of his career anyway.

[veteranskinsfan]

Trade Davis and keep Cooley. If another team wants Davis then lets see what they will offer us. We need draft picks each year any way.

[Rufus T Firefly]

lol who do miami, KC and Oakland have that are better than cooley?


Oakland has Zach Miller. I would take him over Cooley myself, but at the least it's debatable.

[bedlamVR]

A fumble is a fumble

A lost fumble is just as bad as a recovered fumble

Cooley has 11 fumbles in 7 years.

Compare to the elite Tight ends:

Jason Witten - 4 fumbles in 8 years
Tony Gonzalez - 6 fumbles in 14 years
Dallas Clark - 5 fumbles in 8 years
Antonio Gates - 3 fumbles in 8 years
Heath Miller - 4 fumbles in 6 years
Todd Heap - 6 fumbles in 10 years

I wish there was a stat for TE drops as I'm sure Cooley would lead that category as well.

Edit: I found that information on NFL.COM

Errm no ... a recovered fumble is the same as well a recovered fumble - no change of possession no worries . Just goes to show how haters will hate .

BTW it is interesting you never posted the drops stat because I found one too . Its strange Cooley somehow is not on the list ... odd isn't it ?

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?year=&type=Receiving&range=NFC&rank=232

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Cooley signed a 6-year contract in 2008. He ain't going anywhere. 2011 is the last year of Davis' contract. He will probably be attractive on the free agent market.

My guess is Cooley outlasts Davis, which is fine. Two tight ends are a luxury.
Personally, I would prefer to move Cooley.

[tml6157]

If you must move a TE then it has to be Davis. If you trade Cooley, you are left with Davis who is a FA at the end of the year. What does he owe this team to resign with us? You trade Cooley and Davis doesn't resign because he was underused here and wants to go elsewhere. You are now left with a huge weakness at TE. Cooley and Paulsen is a very solid TE duo.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

If you must move a TE then it has to be Davis. If you trade Cooley, you are left with Davis who is a FA at the end of the year. What does he owe this team to resign with us? You trade Cooley and Davis doesn't resign because he was underused here and wants to go elsewhere. You are now left with a huge weakness at TE. Cooley and Paulsen is a very solid TE duo.
If you trade Cooley, why wouldn't Davis resign?

I'm assuming you just prefer Cooley? :)

[tiger187126]

Errm no ... a recovered fumble is the same as well a recovered fumble - no change of possession no worries . Just goes to show how haters will hate .

BTW it is interesting you never posted the drops stat because I found one too . Its strange Cooley somehow is not on the list ... odd isn't it ?

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?year=&type=Receiving&range=NFC&rank=232

it's not hating. there's a lot of luck that goes into recovering a fumble. a TE who fumbles less is less likely to lose fumbles.

i don't care if cooley's fumbles are mostly recovered because the fact that he puts it on the ground almost twice as much as other high ranking TEs in the league means that he is putting his team more in harms way.

look at how costly moss' fumble was last week.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Errm no ... a recovered fumble is the same as well a recovered fumble - no change of possession no worries . Just goes to show how haters will hate .

BTW it is interesting you never posted the drops stat because I found one too . Its strange Cooley somehow is not on the list ... odd isn't it ?

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?year=&type=Receiving&range=NFC&rank=232

Any fumble is bad. The receovery of said fumble is just luck.

One of things football outsiders does each year is look at fumble receovery percentage. Sometimes, a team will receover 80 percent of the fumbles in their games. That's usually an indication that they were very lucky and due for a correction. And a major correction can mean something like a two-game swing in the record.

Here...learning is fun!

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/extra-points/2008/fumble-luck-2007

[ABSTRACT]

Looking back at the number of TDs for Cooley in the past 3 years and Davis in the past 2 years....I don't know why we would not trade him this offseason. Due to his high numbers in yardage this year and his history, he has high value. I would love a second round pick for this guy. Terrence Austin is on the Sports Journey radio show right now talking about how much of a perfectionist Logan Paulsen is. Logan is also an excellent blocker. Logan Paulsen and Fred Davis can be a great TE duo.

For us to succeed and realize our potential in this youth movement, Cooley has to go.

[Bang]

I'm for trading Cooley, but his value may be slipping,, as the stats show, his overall numbers are off. he had some injuries this year even if he did play thru them.

Davis is also an option to float.. maybe float both and see which fetches the bigger price. I'd love to develop Davis, but I can see Cooley being worth his weight for a couple more seasons. He's no lack of heart. for sure, and he's a team player.

~Bang

[ABSTRACT]

I'm for trading Cooley, but his value may be slipping,, as the stats show, his overall numbers are off. he had some injuries this year even if he did play thru them.

Davis is also an option to float.. maybe float both and see which fetches the bigger price. I'd love to develop Davis, but I can see Cooley being worth his weight for a couple more seasons. He's no lack of heart. for sure, and he's a team player.

~Bang

Davis is unproven and only us Skins fans know about his high potential. Cooley would give us a 2nd or 3rd rounder before him anytime. I just prefer Davis because he is younger with a high ceiling. He has 3 more TDs than Cooley in 2 years while Cooley has 3 less in 3 years. If Davis was put out on routes as much as Cooley, he would get as many touches, if not more. When he gets the touches, instead of fumbling, he catches the ball and is very hard to bring down. Trading Cooley and developing Paulsen and Davis seem like the no-brainer to me.

[Bang]

Davis is unproven and only us Skins fans know about his high potential. Cooley would give us a 2nd or 3rd rounder before him anytime. I just prefer Davis because he is younger with a high ceiling. He has 3 more TDs than Cooley in 2 years while Cooley has 3 less in 3 years. If Davis was put out on routes as much as Cooley, he would get as many touches, if not more. When he gets the touches, instead of fumbling, he catches the ball and is very hard to bring down. Trading Cooley and developing Paulsen and Davis seem like the no-brainer to me.

To think only we know Davis is really seriously underestimates the rest of the coaches in the league. They have tape on anyone, and they can get tape on anyone if they don't.
He's young. He's shown flashes of brilliance at times. He has good hands, good YAC. He's big. He can block. He can get open.
He's nothing great yet, but to a potential trade partner he might be more attractive than Cooley. He shows a lot of potential that could be developed, and he's been playing in the shadow of a pro bowler.

I think Cooley's contract and performance and injuries this season probably have dropped him out of the 2nd and 3rd round pick range.

~Bang

[ConnSKINS26]

Honestly, Cooley is such a fan favorite, that I think fans have over-rated the value of having a good receiving TE in recent years.

Teams around the league are spending fairly low-round picks on receiving TE's...and they've been getting good production from them. But because we've had nothing BUT Cooley, Moss, and Portis the last 5-6 years, we over-rate Cooley's real worth to this team.

The reality is that teams around the league drafted guys like Hernandez, Moeaki, Graham, Hoomanawanui, etc. this past offseason and have seen stellar production from them when they've played. And those are just the low-round guys. In a single draft. Add to that the fact that Davis has performed excellently in Cooley's stead when he's gotten the chance, and arguably outperformed him when given touches this season, and he's absolutely replaceable for a 2nd round pick. Maybe even a high 3rd. The value of a pass-catching TE is falling around the league, in part because its not such a hard position to fill anymore. We have to take advantage of whatever market is left while we still can.

With all of the underclassmen declaring the past couple of days showing that college players aren't in fact worried about the lockout, this is going to be a deep draft. That pick, or even multiple picks, will be worth more to us in the future than Cooley's future production will.

Basically, teams draft receiving TE's all over the place in the draft and have success now. Cooley is not irreplaceable, and to be taken aback that many of us feel this way, just proves that many people can't see the big picture.

[darklight1216]

A fumble is a fumble

A lost fumble is just as bad as a recovered fumble

Cooley has 11 fumbles in 7 years.

Compare to the elite Tight ends:

Jason Witten - 4 fumbles in 8 years
Tony Gonzalez - 6 fumbles in 14 years
Dallas Clark - 5 fumbles in 8 years
Antonio Gates - 3 fumbles in 8 years
Heath Miller - 4 fumbles in 6 years
Todd Heap - 6 fumbles in 10 years

I wish there was a stat for TE drops as I'm sure Cooley would lead that category as well.

Edit: I found that information on NFL.COM
That's something to consider.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Davis is unproven and only us Skins fans know about his high potential. Cooley would give us a 2nd or 3rd rounder before him anytime. I just prefer Davis because he is younger with a high ceiling. He has 3 more TDs than Cooley in 2 years while Cooley has 3 less in 3 years. If Davis was put out on routes as much as Cooley, he would get as many touches, if not more. When he gets the touches, instead of fumbling, he catches the ball and is very hard to bring down. Trading Cooley and developing Paulsen and Davis seem like the no-brainer to me.

Wait...you really think that the front offices in the league are unaware of Fred Davis?

The front offices know the names of the backup long snapper at Brown.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Trade Davis and keep Cooley. If another team wants Davis then lets see what they will offer us. We need draft picks each year any way.

With their respective ages at the start of next year being 25 and 29, and both with a similar skill set; I'm curious to know why you'd prefer to trade the younger guy by 4 years, Davis?

Hail.

[ExoDus84]

People need to stop with the idea of trading a face of our franchise; a guy who's a pro-bowler, with high-character and loyalty to the franchise. Why some of you want to trade one of our few weapons is beyond me. What are the odds that a 4th rounder, which is about his trade value, would contribute anywhere near the level that cooley has for the past few years? Seriously. I'd rather keep a guy like Cooley, than take my chances on some 4th round rookie. We need to add weapons, not trade them away.

Thank god none of you are the GM of this team.

[Skins199021]

TDs are such a subjective stats especially for a TE. Plus he missed 9 games in 09, ultra consistent.

Despite that time missed in 7 season he has 420 Receptions, and 4638 yards for his career.... yes clearly nit picking.

Number 2 in total yards and 6th for yards per game among TEs. In 2008 he rankes 2nd and 5th in those respective numbers, In 2007 he ranked 5th and 5th in those respective categories.... yea clearly unproductive.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

People need to stop with the idea of trading a face of our franchise; a guy who's a pro-bowler, with high-character and loyalty to the franchise. Why some of you want to trade one of our few weapons is beyond me. What are the odds that a 4th rounder, which is about his trade value, would contribute anywhere near the level that cooley has for the past few years? Seriously. I'd rather keep a guy like Cooley, than take my chances on some 4th round rookie. We need to add weapons, not trade them away.

Thank god none of you are the GM of this team.
What we're advocating is the same philosophy that organizations like the Eagles, Steelers and Patriots follow.

But yeah, thank god none of us are the GM of this team. ;)

[ABSTRACT]

People need to stop with the idea of trading a face of our franchise; a guy who's a pro-bowler, with high-character and loyalty to the franchise. Why some of you want to trade one of our few weapons is beyond me. What are the odds that a 4th rounder, which is about his trade value, would contribute anywhere near the level that cooley has for the past few years? Seriously. I'd rather keep a guy like Cooley, than take my chances on some 4th round rookie. We need to add weapons, not trade them away.

Thank god none of you are the GM of this team.

Fred Davis has more potential than Cooley. Logan Paulsen is also a great TE and can block, something Cooley cannot do. The truth is....Cooley is a one-dimensional (pass catcher) TE and his skills are diminishing when you consider his stats for the past 3 seasons. When Davis was out there, he has shown more than Cooley and he is four years younger. A team without a TE will definitely sacrifice a second or third round pick for a guy like Chris Cooley. They will look at what he has done in the past and believe that he can still be that great threat at TE....while in reality, his skills are declining and he is simply stunting the growth of the two great TEs behind him. At 29, this is the perfect time to trade Cooley and there are a couple of teams that would love to have him on their team. For this team to get better, trading Chris Cooley is a necessity.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

People need to stop with the idea of trading a face of our franchise; a guy who's a pro-bowler, with high-character and loyalty to the franchise. Why some of you want to trade one of our few weapons is beyond me. What are the odds that a 4th rounder, which is about his trade value, would contribute anywhere near the level that cooley has for the past few years? Seriously. I'd rather keep a guy like Cooley, than take my chances on some 4th round rookie. We need to add weapons, not trade them away.

Thank god none of you are the GM of this team.

Playing Devils advocate, and I personally love Chris; just what exactly have we won with him these past 7 sevens that makes him untradeable? We've had a grand total of 2 winning seasons in that span, culminating in 3 playoff games that never went past the Divisional round. No question he's one of the few weapons we have, but he's not that vital a component to our (not so) continued success that we can't afford to let him go.

And let's say we only did get a 4th for him. (We should get higher, all things being equal, but let's go with a 4th.). As we have a younger, faster, more athletic guy chomping at the bit behind him, we wouldn't lose out in terms of quality at the position. Now, even if whomever, at whatever position, was ultimately just young depth, we've added one more component for our future beyond what we had if we kept three TE's on the roster.

I love me some Cooley, but it would be to our detriment to not at the very least see what's on offer when we have as big a re-build still facing us as the one at hand.

Hail.

[veteranskinsfan]

Gibbs Hog Heaven- Hail. I would agree with ExoDus84's post below my post. Cooley is better than a fourth round pick. I think he can excel in this new offense if we can get a solid quarterback in here next year.

[ConnSKINS26]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Chris Cooley is much more replaceable than this fanbase would like to recognize. Not because he isn't a great player, but because good to great receiving TE's are no longer a hard position to find.

What type of compensation is worth taking the "risk" of replacing Cooley? a 2nd rounder, a higher 3rd rounder, or any combination of one of those and a lower/conditional pick.

[2006Skins]

I would be very open to trading Cooley for a 3rd round pick. As unpopular as it is to believe here, I do think Cooley is very replaceable. He had way too many drops this season, and had some troubles with injury this year and last year.

Though raw, I think Davis can be a better pass catching tight end than Cooley. While there would be a drop off in blocking, I think the benefit outweighs what is lost

[wildbill1952]

Source: http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?season=2010&seasonType=REG&statisticPositionCategory=TIGHT_END&d-447263-o=2&conference=0015&tabSeq=1&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=RECEIVING_RECEPTIONS&d-447263-n=1

In the entire NFL, Cooley is second in catches (77) and yards (84) only to Jason Witten of the CowPatties. Only 9 other TE's had more TD catches than Cooley, so it's not like the TE is a primary target for anybody but the aforementied Witten. There are 12 TE's out of 32 teams that had more than 40 catches. He had a bad game against the Jaguars and dropped 4 passes, including a sure TD and a lot of people remember that. His touchdwns were at 3, but I think that comes form an offense that had few other goto guys in the redzone and he was the guy the other teams planned for when they were in the goalpost's shadow.

It's also important to look at the QB's of the TE's that had more touchdowns. It looks like a who's-who of modern QB's: Romo/Kitna, Alex Smith, Matt Ryan, Eli Manning, Drew Brees, Jay Cutler, Josh Freeman, Michael Vick, Matthew Stafford. Eight of those are listed in the top 10 QB's in the same NFL stats for QB rating. Better QB means more rouchdowns for TE.

So, if the Skins were stupid enough to trade Cooley, there'd be plenty of willing suitors. Davis is not the blocker nor the fan favorite that Cooley is, but he's already shown the true talent he possesses when he gets out there. And Davis is younger with more upside, also a plus. But the problem is, if you trade, do you get a player who is going to contribute to the team as much as Cooley? Or do you get a 4th round pick that makes the practice squad for a year and is gone by the start of next season? I wouldn't trade Cooley for THAT. There's just too much upside for Cooley to risk trading him for eventual Camp Fodder. I wouldn't trust anything worse than a second round pick, and the Skins aren't going to get that for Cooley.

[Skins81a]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Chris Cooley is much more replaceable than this fanbase would like to recognize. Not because he isn't a great player, but because good to great receiving TE's are no longer a hard position to find.

What type of compensation is worth taking the "risk" of replacing Cooley? a 2nd rounder, a higher 3rd rounder, or any combination of one of those and a lower/conditional pick.

BINGO...we have a winner..pass catching TE's are dime a dozen and Cooley is average at that at best. As far as being a GM...yea thank god none of us are GM's because 5-11 and 6-10 is hard to accomplish!

[Aquariuzzz]

I would gladly keep both as long as Davis got used more.. It seems strange why we cant seem to get them on the field producing together.. The best offenses tailor to their players skills.. what the hell...

I believe that if Davis got more opportunities he could be more effective than Cooley. I love both their abilities in getting YAC. If Davis doesnt play, he can only sit quietly for so long before he just decides to leave after next season. If Cooley has to leave to get Davis on the field, lets see what teams will offer.

[TANAMAN]

The Giants traded Jeremy Shockey to the Saints for a 2nd and a 5th. Shockey was a month shy of 28 at the time.
The Browns traded 26 year old Kellen Winslow the Buccaneers for a 2nd and a 5th.
The Chiefs traded 33 year old Tony Gonzales to the Falcons for a 2nd.

Chris Cooley is 28 years old.


People need to stop with the idea of trading a face of our franchise; a guy who's a pro-bowler, with high-character and loyalty to the franchise. Why some of you want to trade one of our few weapons is beyond me. What are the odds that a 4th rounder, which is about his trade value, would contribute anywhere near the level that cooley has for the past few years? Seriously. I'd rather keep a guy like Cooley, than take my chances on some 4th round rookie. We need to add weapons, not trade them away.

Thank god none of you are the GM of this team.

The above post shows recent trades made for pro bowl caliber TE's. With Chris being a tad bit older than the first two (Shockey, Winslow) at their trading points and not quite at the level of Gonzalez, I would imagine that a 3rd rounder wouldn't be completely out of the question.

What we need to do as a franchise (not necessarily as fans because we should always do this) is not get so wrapped up in keeping players just based on their popularity. We have 2 young players at the position sitting behind Cooley who could step right in and we wouldn't miss a much of a beat. We need to get what we can get for Cooley NOW. What do we gain by holding on to him? Do we wait for him to get to the age where teams aren't willing to give us anything for him? Or even worse do we wait until we lose the young player behind him in Fred Davis who won't want to resign with us when his contract is up because he wants to start.

Franchises like the Pats do this as common pactice and that's why they're successful. I'm sure the Pats fans felt like WTF when Belichik traded Semour and even Moss but that's why they have 6 picks in the first 3 rounds of the draft and might win the Super Bowl this year, that's good business. We should've traded Ladell Betts the year after he rushed for 1000 yards in limited games in relief of Clinton, his stock was at it's highest peak, but we didn't and a couple years later we let him go for nothing. Compare the Pats with Cassell (I know a QB is a different situation with their value but humor me) he had one good year when Brady went down, his value was high and the Pats picked the Cheifs pockets for him. Again Good Business. I'm sure having a backup QB like Cassell was a great luxury for NE but when you can get by without him why not get what you can while you can?

---------- Post added January-5th-2011 at 11:22 PM ----------


Source: http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?season=2010&seasonType=REG&statisticPositionCategory=TIGHT_END&d-447263-o=2&conference=0015&tabSeq=1&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=RECEIVING_RECEPTIONS&d-447263-n=1

In the entire NFL, Cooley is second in catches (77) and yards (84) only to Jason Witten of the CowPatties. Only 9 other TE's had more TD catches than Cooley, so it's not like the TE is a primary target for anybody but the aforementied Witten. There are 12 TE's out of 32 teams that had more than 40 catches. He had a bad game against the Jaguars and dropped 4 passes, including a sure TD and a lot of people remember that. His touchdwns were at 3, but I think that comes form an offense that had few other goto guys in the redzone and he was the guy the other teams planned for when they were in the goalpost's shadow.

It's also important to look at the QB's of the TE's that had more touchdowns. It looks like a who's-who of modern QB's: Romo/Kitna, Alex Smith, Matt Ryan, Eli Manning, Drew Brees, Jay Cutler, Josh Freeman, Michael Vick, Matthew Stafford. Eight of those are listed in the top 10 QB's in the same NFL stats for QB rating. Better QB means more rouchdowns for TE.

So, if the Skins were stupid enough to trade Cooley, there'd be plenty of willing suitors. Davis is not the blocker nor the fan favorite that Cooley is, but he's already shown the true talent he possesses when he gets out there. And Davis is younger with more upside, also a plus. But the problem is, if you trade, do you get a player who is going to contribute to the team as much as Cooley? Or do you get a 4th round pick that makes the practice squad for a year and is gone by the start of next season? I wouldn't trade Cooley for THAT. There's just too much upside for Cooley to risk trading him for eventual Camp Fodder. I wouldn't trust anything worse than a second round pick, and the Skins aren't going to get that for Cooley.
With a 3rd round pick we can get great value at the interior line positions, both offensive and defensive. I don't think the point is if we can get a player who will contribute as much as Cooley, we already have that in Davis. Moving Cooley on gives Davis the opportunity to show that he can produce like Cooley. IMO the point is we have a player approaching the 30 year old mark who still has some value and maybe attractive to other teams, with a young player capable a playing at the same level behind him. Why not get something for the older player while we can.

[Tarpon75]

He is an average pass catching TE yet his numbers are top 7 in the league year in and year out.He has developed into a very good blocker.Cooley is consistentent, plays hurt when possible, and wants to retire as a Redskin. Yea, let's trade him for a possible 3rd round bust.

[RIPSean]

I have a feeling Cooley would dominate for his new team if he were traded. I mean, If Brandon Lloyd can lead the league in receiving yards on a 4 win team, imagine how stupid Cooley would make the Skins look if he were to go to a place like New England, Indianapolis, Green Bay, New Orleans, Houston... basically any team with a legitimate NFL offense. Skins would get poor trade value as usual, and look like a joke of a team, as usual.

[Tarpon75]

Davis hasn't proven he can be a consistent player at this point. He may prove himself over time and if he does 2 very good te's would be a good thing.Cooley is 28 and could well improve over the next couple of years or so. I would hate that to happen with him on another team. He could have 4 to 7 good years left.I think alot of you guys want to trade someone just for the sake of trading.Getting a 3 or 4 rounder for a player as steady as Cooley makes no sense to me. If he were a part of a trade to bring a franchise qb to Wash. then it could make sense.Someone earlier posted that Cooley was a below average TE,what a seriously rediculous statement!

[TANAMAN]

Davis hasn't proven he can be a consistent player at this point. He may prove himself over time and if he does 2 very good te's would be a good thing.Cooley is 28 and could well improve over the next couple of years or so. I would hate that to happen with him on another team. He could have 4 to 7 good years left.I think alot of you guys want to trade someone just for the sake of trading.Getting a 3 or 4 rounder for a player as steady as Cooley makes no sense to me. If he were a part of a trade to bring a franchise qb to Wash. then it could make sense.Someone earlier posted that Cooley was a below average TE,what a seriously rediculous statement!

With all due respect to you, Davis proved his consistency in '09 when Cooley went down with the injury. Davis stepped in as a 2nd year TE and in starting only 10 games he had 48 catches 509 yds. and 6 tds. If you take those numbers and do the calculations, had he kept at that pace and started all 16 games he'd have a better year than either of Cooley's Pro Bowl seasons.

Listen, believe me when I tell you I'm in no way knocking Cooley as a player. He's an upper tier TE in this league, but we have a guy sitting behind him that can do just about everything he can do and is 4 years younger. Cooley will be 29 at the start of next year, Davis will be 25. To say Cooley may have 7 good seasons left is a hell of a stretch that would make him 36. He may have 4-5 good years left barring injuries, Davis on the other hand may have 9-10 left barring those same injuries and he's a better athelete. All I'm saying is we should move Cooley while we can still get something for him, because when their contracts come up we're going to have one hell of a decision to make. Do we keep the younger Davis and get rid of Cooley at that point. I can guarantee you that Davis won't resign unless he's promised a chance to start because he knows he's capable of starting on another team. And if we wait until then Cooley's 31 at that point and his value is much lower than it is now. The best chance to get value for him is RIGHT NOW. We may not be better of today at the TE position if we trade Cooley but if we can turn that pick into a starter on the OL/DL or DB/LB position we're better off as a team and we've gotten younger at two positions.

[ABSTRACT]

With all due respect to you, Davis proved his consistency in '09 when Cooley went down with the injury. Davis stepped in as a 2nd year TE and in starting only 10 games he had 48 catches 509 yds. and 6 tds. If you take those numbers and do the calculations, had he kept at that pace and started all 16 games he'd have a better year than either of Cooley's Pro Bowl seasons.

Listen, believe me when I tell you I'm in no way knocking Cooley as a player. He's an upper tier TE in this league, but we have a guy sitting behind him that can do just about everything he can do and is 4 years younger. Cooley will be 29 at the start of next year, Davis will be 25. To say Cooley may have 7 good seasons left is a hell of a stretch that would make him 36. He may have 4-5 good years left barring injuries, Davis on the other hand may have 9-10 left barring those same injuries and he's a better athelete. All I'm saying is we should move Cooley while we can still get something for him, because when their contracts come up we're going to have one hell of a decision to make. Do we keep the younger Davis and get rid of Cooley at that point. I can guarantee you that Davis won't resign unless he's promised a chance to start because he knows he's capable of starting on another team. And if we wait until then Cooley's 31 at that point and his value is much lower than it is now. The best chance to get value for him is RIGHT NOW. We may not be better of today at the TE position if we trade Cooley but if we can turn that pick into a starter on the OL/DL or DB/LB position we're better off as a team and we've gotten younger at two positions.

+1

Could not have said it better. Hope that we can get a stud with the pick we get from the Cooley trade. Davis and Paulsen are better than alot of people think.

[bedlamVR]

With all due respect to you, Davis proved his consistency in '09 when Cooley went down with the injury. Davis stepped in as a 2nd year TE and in starting only 10 games he had 48 catches 509 yds. and 6 tds. If you take those numbers and do the calculations, had he kept at that pace and started all 16 games he'd have a better year than either of Cooley's Pro Bowl seasons.

Listen, believe me when I tell you I'm in no way knocking Cooley as a player. He's an upper tier TE in this league, but we have a guy sitting behind him that can do just about everything he can do and is 4 years younger. Cooley will be 29 at the start of next year, Davis will be 25. To say Cooley may have 7 good seasons left is a hell of a stretch that would make him 36. He may have 4-5 good years left barring injuries, Davis on the other hand may have 9-10 left barring those same injuries and he's a better athelete. All I'm saying is we should move Cooley while we can still get something for him, because when their contracts come up we're going to have one hell of a decision to make. Do we keep the younger Davis and get rid of Cooley at that point. I can guarantee you that Davis won't resign unless he's promised a chance to start because he knows he's capable of starting on another team. And if we wait until then Cooley's 31 at that point and his value is much lower than it is now. The best chance to get value for him is RIGHT NOW. We may not be better of today at the TE position if we trade Cooley but if we can turn that pick into a starter on the OL/DL or DB/LB position we're better off as a team and we've gotten younger at two positions.

You cannot pro rate stats like that . Davis had nothing but opportunity to come in here in the offseason and unseat Cooley by showing desire and heart . New coaches Cooley coming off a bad injury and momentum going forwards . Yet he didn't . Just because he put together 10 games in 2009 does not show me anything . Like Ladell Betts managed to do nothing else in his Redskins career after or prior to 2006, Davis will probably never top his 2009 numbers .

Cooley has been a top TE for his entire career . People throw around names like Todd Heap and Heath Miller and yet their production is **** compared to Cooley . Cooley is also an under rated blocker, that is something that has improved over his career, and even in a year in which he had a "down" season he was second in the NFL as a pass catching TE . They say discarding players in their prime is what great FO like the Eagles do and that approach has yielded what exactly ?

He loves the Skins, he is always positive and he is a team leader . He interacts with the Community and he loves being here and yet the dumb ass fans want to trade him for a 4th or 5th round pick . Way to show appreciation .

While we are at it why not trade Rak and Williams ... we could probably get a 3rd round pick for them . . . lets ship Landry out for a ham sandwich . . . the injured bum ! And the fan base calls out the FO for being dumb .

[Travdaskin]

You cannot pro rate stats like that . Davis had nothing but opportunity to come in here in the offseason and unseat Cooley by showing desire and heart . New coaches Cooley coming off a bad injury and momentum going forwards . Yet he didn't . Just because he put together 10 games in 2009 does not show me anything . Like Ladell Betts managed to do nothing else in his Redskins career after or prior to 2006, Davis will probably never top his 2009 numbers .

Cooley has been a top TE for his entire career . People throw around names like Todd Heap and Heath Miller and yet their production is **** compared to Cooley . Cooley is also an under rated blocker, that is something that has improved over his career, and even in a year in which he had a "down" season he was second in the NFL as a pass catching TE . They say discarding players in their prime is what great FO like the Eagles do and that approach has yielded what exactly ?

He loves the Skins, he is always positive and he is a team leader . He interacts with the Community and he loves being here and yet the dumb ass fans want to trade him for a 4th or 5th round pick . Way to show appreciation .

While we are at it why not trade Rak and Williams ... we could probably get a 3rd round pick for them . . . lets ship Landry out for a ham sandwich . . . the injured bum ! And the fan base calls out the FO for being dumb .
I wanna know who said a 4th or 5th rounder lol? And come on really we have no one who can do half of what Rak, Trent, and Landry can do totally different situations.

[ConnSKINS26]

yet the dumb ass fans want to trade him for a 4th or 5th round pick .

Not one single person on ES wants to trade Cooley for a 4th or 5th round pick, I'll promise you that. Not ONE. That's called over-stating your case for dramatic effect, and its below you. Most have said that they'd only trade him for a 2nd, maybe a third. If you could find a single post advocating trading Cooley for a 4th or lower (from someone who isn't a proven idiot), I'd eat my hat. Or your hat. Or someone's.

Here's my case for trading Cooley, and it has nothing to do with how I feel about him as a person or player. Oh, and I do fully appreciate what he's done here and his status as a fan-favorite, before you start lecturing again.


Honestly, Cooley is such a fan favorite, that I think fans have over-rated the value of having a good receiving TE in recent years.

Teams around the league are spending fairly low-round picks on receiving TE's...and they've been getting good production from them. But because we've had nothing BUT Cooley, Moss, and Portis the last 5-6 years, we over-rate Cooley's real worth to this team.

The reality is that teams around the league drafted guys like Hernandez, Moeaki, Graham, Hoomanawanui, etc. just this past offseason and have seen stellar production from them when they've played. And those are just the low-round guys that I can think of. In a single draft. Add to that the fact that Davis has performed excellently in Cooley's stead when he's gotten the chance, and arguably outperformed him when given touches this season, and he's absolutely replaceable for a 2nd round pick. Maybe even a high 3rd.

The value of a pass-catching TE is falling around the league, in part because its not such a hard position to fill anymore. We have to take advantage of whatever market is left while we still can.

With all of the underclassmen declaring the past couple of days showing that college players aren't in fact worried about the lockout, this is going to be a deep draft. That pick, or even multiple picks, will be worth more to us in the future than Cooley's future production will.

Basically, teams draft receiving TE's all over the place in the draft and have success now. Cooley is not irreplaceable, and to be taken aback that many of us feel this way, just proves that many people can't see the big picture.

My ending argument:

I'll say ahead of time that I'd rather have scenario 1 than 2.

Scenario 1. A properly utilized Fred Davis starting at TE with Paulson fulfilling his role as blocking TE, and an extra 2nd round pick, plus a possible later round/conditional pick.

That 2nd rounder could turn into someone like:

Stephen Paea
Jonathan Baldwin
Marvin Austin
Jerrell Powe
Rodney Hudson
Justin Houston
Aldon Smith
Mike Pouncey
Demarco Murray
Ryan Williams
Pat Devlin

I'd take Fred Davis and one of these guys, plus possibly a late round pick, over Cooley any day. But that's because I'm not blinded by fandom...I can see that despite his great (mostly) stats, Cooley is a replaceable player, just like any other good to very good player getting close to 30, with a very solid backup.

Scenario 2. Keep Cooley and also keep an under-utilized Davis (mostly) rotting on the bench until he leaves as a FA, becoming yet another draft bust.

Again, I know which scenario I'd prefer. And its the first one.

[Botched]

Ok I don't understand something. Why is it the people who keep telling us Cooley is overrated/average/not very good, and that pass catching TE's are a dime a dozen, are also telling us that trading Cooley would get us some good draft picks?

Is he overrated, or is he a stud that will get us high value on the market? He can't be both.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Maybe it's me, which is entirely possible, but for the life of me I can't find a site that shows how many times a player was targeted through the year. I'm sure there must be something to show that somewhere. I ask as I'd love some stats to show both how Davis was criminally under utilized by the OC this past season; and how high his production was versus the amount of times he was targeted.

Anyone who does know where to look would be real appreciated if they'd enlighten me.

Hail.

[justice98]

Funny how quickly things change. Wasn't too long ago, Chris Cooley was a top 5 TE. Now, he's totally expendable and overrated.

[Boss_Hogg]

Errm no ... a recovered fumble is the same as well a recovered fumble - no change of possession no worries . Just goes to show how haters will hate .

You've obviously never played or coached football before. A fumble recovery is pure dumb luck. Coach Lovie Smith: "Forcing Fumbles Is a Skill, Recovering Fumbles Is Luck" http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:16wcqtBPMH8J:nfl.fanhouse.com/2008/11/25/sorry-lovie-smith-forcing-fumbles-is-a-skill-recovering-fumbl/+fumble+recovery,+luck&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us


BTW it is interesting you never posted the drops stat because I found one too . Its strange Cooley somehow is not on the list ... odd isn't it ?

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?year=&type=Receiving&range=NFC&rank=232

I asked for a list of dropped passes by Tight ends, you posted a general list of dropped passes.

[RandyHolt]

A different perspective besides focusing on fumbles.... If I was an opposition GM looking for a pass catching TE, perusing our roster, I go right for Davis. No major injuries, produced when asked to, costs less, younger, and maybe faster, maybe more athletic. Nothing against Cooley at all. In the grand scheme of life, he and Davis are very similar. After his injury last year, it seemed like Cooley wasn't quite as quick this year. It may just be my eyes.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Ok I don't understand something. Why is it the people who keep telling us Cooley is overrated/average/not very good, and that pass catching TE's are a dime a dozen, are also telling us that trading Cooley would get us some good draft picks?

Is he overrated, or is he a stud that will get us high value on the market? He can't be both.

The fan base can overrate him while he's still a good TE. I don't think he's overrated when it comes to NFL teams or personnel guys. If the latest couple of TE trades are roughly comparable, a 3rd round pick seems like a reasonable assumption.

I think the point that keeps getting overlooked is this:

If, hypothetically, we can get a 3rd round pick for Cooley, aren't we a BETTER OVERALL TEAM with Davis + 3rd round player than we are with just Cooley (and Davis in some 2-TE sets)?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Maybe it's me, which is entirely possible, but for the life of me I can't find a site that shows how many times a player was targeted through the year. I'm sure there must be something to show that somewhere. I ask as I'd love some stats to show both how Davis was criminally under utilized by the OC this past season; and how high his production was versus the amount of times he was targeted.

Anyone who does know where to look would be real appreciated if they'd enlighten me.

Hail.

Thanks to Murph's latest piece, I have it.

28 times he was targeted.

A man who had 21 reception's, for 316 yards, averaging 15 yards a reception with 4 over 20 yards, and 2 over 40, for 3 TD's. Oh, and he picled up 11 first downs from those 21 receptions.

Yet our OC deemed him unworthy of any more than 28 looks. A man with that production, who was a serious scoring threat in the red zone in particular the year before.

Tell us again bedlamVR, or anyone else for that matter, how he's failed to take his opportunity. To fail, you need an opportunity in the first darn place. If we had an OC that had any comprehension of utilizing the weapons at his disposal, I don't see as there'd be ANY drop off in production from Cooley to Davis.

Hail.

[Dan T.]

Ok I don't understand something. Why is it the people who keep telling us Cooley is overrated/average/not very good, and that pass catching TE's are a dime a dozen, are also telling us that trading Cooley would get us some good draft picks?

Is he overrated, or is he a stud that will get us high value on the market? He can't be both.


Yeah, who's going to give us a 3rd round pick for a tight end who - according to posters in this thread - is overrated, has a lackadaisical attitude, fumbles too much, and drops too many passes?

Some of you people would claim to kick Megan Fox out of bed because her thumb looks funny.

[KingGibbs]

Yeah, who's going to give us a 3rd round pick for a tight end who - according to posters in this thread - is overrated, has a lackadaisical attitude, fumbles too much, and drops too many passes?

Some of you people would claim to kick Megan Fox out of bed because her thumb looks funny.

I know right? Thumbs?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I know right? Thumbs?

Ask not what the thumb look's like; ask what the thumb can aid in doing to you.

Old Chinese proverb. 'Kinda.

Hail.

[Dan T.]

Ask not what the thumb look's like; ask what the thumb can aid in doing to you.

Old Chinese proverb. 'Kinda.

Hail.


Edited out a gratuituous Carlos Rogers all thumbs joke...

[surferskin]

It's maddening to me that fans want to get younger and build through the draft but are unwilling to trade any player that has value on our team. People want linemen. Defense and offensive lineman. IMO a pass catching TE like Cooley is more a luxury for a team that already has their lines shored up. Trade Cooley and get draft picks and further address both lines. Plus, I don't really see much a drop off between Cooley and Davis at this point.

[KDawg]

I know right? Thumbs?

Women have thumbs?

[Boss_Hogg]

You cannot pro rate stats like that . Davis had nothing but opportunity to come in here in the offseason and unseat Cooley by showing desire and heart .

Davis stats after Cooley went down last year:

48 receptions, 509 yards, 6 TDs 0 fumbles

compared to TE #47

29 receptions, 332 yards, 2 TDs 1 fumble


Cooley has been a top TE for his entire career . People throw around names like Todd Heap and Heath Miller and yet their production is **** compared to Cooley .

Miller and Heap play on winning football teams, they have contributed to the success of the Steelers and Ratbirds.


Cooley is also an under rated blocker, that is something that has improved over his career.

He's an average pass blocker, I saw him get beat like a drum several times this year.


He loves the Skins, he is always positive and he is a team leader . He interacts with the Community and he loves being here.

yeah constantly blogging and showing pictures of your penis online is very classy.


and yet the dumb ass fans want to trade him for a 4th or 5th round pick . Way to show appreciation.

Gotta do what's best for the team. Can't coddle one player because of what he's done in the past or how much money he makes.

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

The drops have been a killer for this dude.

Besides, it's time to get Fred Davis on the field full-time :)

[KingGibbs]

I have this suspicion that Chris has read this thread and is saying "**** these mother****ers.":ols:

[ABSTRACT]

Yeah, who's going to give us a 3rd round pick for a tight end who - according to posters in this thread - is overrated, has a lackadaisical attitude, fumbles too much, and drops too many passes?

Some of you people would claim to kick Megan Fox out of bed because her thumb looks funny.

We can get a 2nd round pick for the guy because of what a team desperate at TE knows what Cooley is CAPABLE of doing due to his history. Plus that team desperate at TE will see that he is only 28 (even though he will soon be 29) and think they can get some good years out of him. They will ignore his mediocre past three seasons and believe they can bring back that old CHris Cooley...That 05-07 Cooley. A second round pick would seem expandable for that team if they were getting a guy like Cooley into the mix. Being a Redskin fan....you should know alot of front offices take risks like this for the good of their team. There will be a team out there that wants Chris Cooley and is willing to give up a second rounder fro him.

We have two guys who can excel and have much better numbers than Cooley. Why keep him? To be great requires change. If you want to continue the legacy of mediocrity, then continue do what you have been doing. We do not need Cooley to succeed. We have not done anything for the past seven seasons so what are we going to do with a declining version of him. I understand many of you are Chris Cooley fans, but I'm a Redskin fan and he is stunting the growth of this team. For the future.....this offseason, we need to put our priority in big hungry guys that play NT, DE, C, G, FS, 3-4 OLB, ILB, RT, etc.....not an aging pass-catching TE. Get the 2nd rounder for Cooley, and move on.

[Dan T.]

:ols: So now it is IMPERATIVE for the future of this franchise that we trade Cooley because there is definitely a team out there desperate for a tight end willing to trade a 2nd for him? Chris Cooley is single-handedly "stunting the growth the this team"? :ols: Good stuff.

Cooley has been "mediocre" for 3 years? He was the 2nd leading TE in the NFL in receptions this year, and 3rd in yardage. Those numbers were similar last year before he got hurt. In 2008 he was again 2nd among TEs in receptions, and 4th in yards. In the whole NFL. But there are TWO TEs ON THE REDSKINS better than him!?!?

You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to make **** up.

[SkinsFanMania]

Surprise sleeper pick, the Buffalo Bills. They have a few tight ends that will be FA's and really did not produce. They have also been very injury prone (same for Cooley I guess). I could see the Bills doing a trade of picks for Cooley in a heartbeat.

-I was at the Bills website a few days ago and their fan base is in an uproar over needing a reliable, blocking TE that can also catch passes and feel that they will be going after TE heavy in FA.... or trade in this case

Cooley is not injury prone and I believe the only games he missed were due to last seasons injury. He was drafted in 2004.

[Tweedr01]

Women have thumbs?
only to turn the stove on

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Dan, you should be careful not to change an argument just to make yours more attractive. The post above you didn't say or even imply that Cooley was "single-handedly" stunting the growth of this team. But any older player who is blocking a younger, more dynamic player on this roster is contributing to that. More extreme examples might be someone like Rabach. If he's blocking Montgomery or Lichtensteiger at C, that's a bad thing. To me, Moss and Cooley fall into that category (however they are obviously still much better than Rabach). We have younger guys who could be getting experience in what will be a couple transitional years...why not get value for the older players and give the younger guys a chance to grow in time to be ready to contribute to a up-and-coming team?

[Tweedr01]

Davis stats after Cooley went down last year:

48 receptions, 509 yards, 6 TDs 0 fumbles

compared to TE #47

29 receptions, 332 yards, 2 TDs 1 fumble

Miller and Heap play on winning football teams, they have contributed to the success of the Steelers and Ratbirds.

He's an average pass blocker, I saw him get beat like a drum several times this year.

yeah constantly blogging and showing pictures of your penis online is very classy.

Gotta do what's best for the team. Can't coddle one player because of what he's done in the past or how much money he makes.
are you christy's ex-bf or something? man agenda much?

[Makaveli]

We have two tight ends that have proven they are capable of producing on the field, and this team has too many glaring holes, specifically at QB and on the lines, for us not to make a smart trade when we can get some value in return. In this situation you stick with the younger talent and trade Cooley while you can still get some value for him.

[Botched]

The fan base can overrate him while he's still a good TE. I don't think he's overrated when it comes to NFL teams or personnel guys. If the latest couple of TE trades are roughly comparable, a 3rd round pick seems like a reasonable assumption.

I think the point that keeps getting overlooked is this:

If, hypothetically, we can get a 3rd round pick for Cooley, aren't we a BETTER OVERALL TEAM with Davis + 3rd round player than we are with just Cooley (and Davis in some 2-TE sets)?

I think your stance on the Cooley thing is reasonable TD, even though I'd still rather not trade him. I'm kinda just poking a stick at some others.

Tough to say if we'd be better off with a 3rd rounder, especially considering our draft history. I don't think we need to trade Cooley (or Davis for that matter) to get better though. We've got our current draft picks, free agency, and other players who contribute less that could be traded.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

I don't think we need to trade Cooley (or Davis for that matter) to get better though. We've got our current draft picks, free agency, and other players who contribute less that could be traded.
This draft is loaded and we need all the picks we can get. Personally, I think two pass catching TEs are a luxury.

And you need to factor in Fred's impending free agency into the equation as well.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Tough to say if we'd be better off with a 3rd rounder, especially considering our draft history. I don't think we need to trade Cooley (or Davis for that matter) to get better though. We've got our current draft picks, free agency, and other players who contribute less that could be traded.

If your stance is that we're not a good drafting team and thus it might not benefit us to receive a relatively high pick for Cooley, then you can't turn around and use the draft as a way we can improve while keeping him. Also, if we're not a good drafting team, wouldn't you want as many shots to strike gold as possible?

Basically, you lose very little (if anything) going from Cooley to Davis, so any improvement at any other position with what you get back in a Cooley trade is a positive. It's certainly possible that you completely miss with that pick, but at least you'd be playing your 2nd round pick from 2008 now.

[ConnSKINS26]

are you christy's ex-bf or something? man agenda much?

So now anyone advocating for a Cooley trade that nets us a good draft pick must be the vindictive ex of his wife? This is ridiculous.

Leave this kind of bull**** "logic" in the ATN. I laugh when you and others play with Cowboys fans this way there, even if its not the most respectable way to debate...but leave that **** out of here.

Some of us have made VERY logical and convincing arguments advocating for such a trade...they just haven't been addressed. I don't think its a coincidence that the weaker pro-trade arguments presented in this thread are the only ones being picked apart, while perfectly reasonable posts calling for such a trade are being mysteriously ignored. For some reason, people get very threatened when the topic of replacing Chris Cooley comes up. And posts like this exemplify that.

[Dan T.]

Dan, you should be careful not to change an argument just to make yours more attractive. The post above you didn't say or even imply that Cooley was "single-handedly" stunting the growth of this team.

His exact quote:

"I understand many of you are Chris Cooley fans, but I'm a Redskin fan and he is stunting the growth of this team."

[ABSTRACT]

His exact quote:

"I understand many of you are Chris Cooley fans, but I'm a Redskin fan and he is stunting the growth of this team."

He is stunting the growth of Fred Davis and Logan Paulsen. Fred Davis and Paulsen's success affects the team. Therefore, yes....Cooley is stunting the growth of the team...especially when he is taking Fred Davis snaps from him and messing them up by dropping the ball when it hits him between the numbers or failing to get a first down once the ball is in his grasp.

When Davis gets the ball in his hand, he is hard to bring down and can do more than Cooley can do. While Cooley was mediocre, Davis has proven he can replace him and produce more than him. Logan can also block...something Cooley can not do. Davis is more athletic, stronger, and younger than Cooley. Logan is versatile and can catch and block very well. He is also very young....just drafted....and only 23 yrs old. Cooley is a one-dimensional aging pass catcher that is better off on another team.

The writing is on the wall. The best direction for this team to go is to trade Chris. I know you like him but it is a logical move for the good of the team.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

His exact quote:

"I understand many of you are Chris Cooley fans, but I'm a Redskin fan and he is stunting the growth of this team."

So, in your best, objective opinion..you honestly believe that he's making the argument that our TE is "single-handedly" stunting the growth of the entire team? Or was it just easy to use that quote in an intellectually dishonest way to "win" a minor point in this debate.

I don't think anyone in the "willing to trade Cooley" boat would make that argument. However, he's one of many Gibbs-era players who will probably be over-the-hill by the time we can contend, so why not get value in return for him if we can?

[IrepDC]

Cooley is not getting better, though, he is getting worse. He continues to drop the ball in key situations. He continues to have costly fumbles. I seriously can't understand why he is the ONLY Redskin who gets a pass for so many mistakes. He's cool or whatever but the fan attachment is ridiculous. He is no different than Moss or Portis in my opinion. Guys that gave it their all and were the faces of a losing franchise. Much love to them; it is time to move on.

[Thirtyfive2seven]

Does anyone have a list of how many drops he has had since that time frame (listed by the OP)?

I found this but to be honest it is a little fuzzy to me

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/te

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Cooley is not getting better, though, he is getting worse. He continues to drop the ball in key situations. He continues to have costly fumbles. I seriously can't understand why he is the ONLY Redskin who gets a pass for so many mistakes. He's cool or whatever but the fan attachment is ridiculous. He is no different than Moss or Portis in my opinion. Guys that gave it their all and were the faces of a losing franchise. Much love to them; it is time to move on.

Yep, these guys are now Stephen Davis to me. They were our best players while we continuously came up short. Individually, they have nothing to be ashamed of, but if we can lose with them, we can lose (or hopefully begin to win) without them.

[IrepDC]

The whole fear of draft picks because "What if they bust?" argument is what has made our team as old as it is today. We always latch on to the older proven players even when they are clearly declining. The point isn't that it's guaranteed the draft pick will pay off; the point is that the draft pick has more potential to benefit the team in the long run. That 3rd or 4th rounder could be a future Center, or Guard, or LB, or DL. The fact that we have a younger and still talented TE waiting behind makes even more sense.

If we don't move Cooley this off season, I can guarantee you Davis walks at the end of his rookie contract next season. Davis has expressed that he really wants to be here, but if this team doesn't use him he will find a team that will.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

If we don't move Cooley this off season, I can guarantee you Davis walks at the end of his rookie contract next season. Davis has expressed that he really wants to be here, but if this team doesn't use him he will find a team that will.
This.

[ABSTRACT]

Cooley is not getting better, though, he is getting worse. He continues to drop the ball in key situations. He continues to have costly fumbles. I seriously can't understand why he is the ONLY Redskin who gets a pass for so many mistakes. He's cool or whatever but the fan attachment is ridiculous. He is no different than Moss or Portis in my opinion. Guys that gave it their all and were the faces of a losing franchise. Much love to them; it is time to move on.

+1

The only reason I am willing to part ways with Portis is because of his injuries and upcoming salary. He is actually great when healthy but it is time to let him go....and I will be surprised if he is not this offseason.

As for Moss, I'd be alright with him staying here until he retires. He has key drops but he produces so well in the slot and is a very consistent route runner and threat in the middle. He can also be a mentor for all the receivers that come here. I was listening to Terrence Austin on the Sports Journey show last night and he was talking about how big of an inspiration and teacher Moss has been to him. I think guys like that really need to stick around. Moss is a consummate professional and I want him to continue to be the cowboy killer. I believe that Moss will accept moving down to the 3rd and 4th receiver once we get legitimate weapons at WR in the near future. Austin said that Moss knows young hungry guys like him are vying for his spot but Moss does not withhold any information from them. Similar to Fletcher, I want to see Moss retire in B&G.

As for Cooley, his mediocre play does not seem to bother him. Moss was closed to crying a few weeks ago...but I hear Cooley every Monday sounding the same.....whether it''s a win or loss. Cooley has two young guys with tons of potential behind him and he simply needs to leave to let these guys grow. Since Cooley is leaving, he might as well get us a draft pick.

---------- Post added January-6th-2011 at 02:40 PM ----------


The whole fear of draft picks because "What if they bust?" argument is what has made our team as old as it is today. We always latch on to the older proven players even when they are clearly declining. The point isn't that it's guaranteed the draft pick will pay off; the point is that the draft pick has more potential to benefit the team in the long run. That 3rd or 4th rounder could be a future Center, or Guard, or LB, or DL. The fact that we have a younger and still talented TE waiting behind makes even more sense.

If we don't move Cooley this off season, I can guarantee you Davis walks at the end of his rookie contract next season. Davis has expressed that he really wants to be here, but if this team doesn't use him he will find a team that will.

+1 +1 +1

[Tweedr01]

So now anyone advocating for a Cooley trade that nets us a good draft pick must be the vindictive ex of his wife? This is ridiculous.

Leave this kind of bull**** "logic" in the ATN. I laugh when you and others play with Cowboys fans this way there, even if its not the most respectable way to debate...but leave that **** out of here.

Some of us have made VERY logical and convincing arguments advocating for such a trade...they just haven't been addressed. I don't think its a coincidence that the weaker pro-trade arguments presented in this thread are the only ones being picked apart, while perfectly reasonable posts calling for such a trade are being mysteriously ignored. For some reason, people get very threatened when the topic of replacing Chris Cooley comes up. And posts like this exemplify that.
whoa there killer, it was meant light-heartedly towards a fellow skins fan, but since you are so sensitive, did you even read what he wrote?


yeah constantly blogging and showing pictures of your penis online is very classy.

Bringing up something like that, which obviously happened completely by accident, and calling him classless for it sounds like jealousy, or like someone has an agenda. You sure are sensitive on this though guy. I don't care if you guys are discussing real reasons for any player to be traded but to bring up something like that as a reason to be traded is neither a logical nor a convincing argument.

---------- Post added January-6th-2011 at 02:57 PM ----------


He is stunting the growth of Fred Davis and Logan Paulsen. Fred Davis and Paulsen's success affects the team. Therefore, yes....Cooley is stunting the growth of the team...especially when he is taking Fred Davis snaps from him and messing them up by dropping the ball when it hits him between the numbers or failing to get a first down once the ball is in his grasp.

When Davis gets the ball in his hand, he is hard to bring down and can do more than Cooley can do. While Cooley was mediocre, Davis has proven he can replace him and produce more than him. Logan can also block...something Cooley can not do. Davis is more athletic, stronger, and younger than Cooley. Logan is versatile and can catch and block very well. He is also very young....just drafted....and only 23 yrs old. Cooley is a one-dimensional aging pass catcher that is better off on another team.

The writing is on the wall. The best direction for this team to go is to trade Chris. I know you like him but it is a logical move for the good of the team.
lol, man the agenda boys are out today. Listen guy, half of what you posted is YOUR OPINION and not fact. If it was fact then Davis would be starting and Chris would be backing him up. Are you saying you know more about the two of them than the coaches? If so, maybe we should just call you Ryman and get you a one way ticket to Redskins park so you can coach our coaches....smh, some of you are unbelievable.

Fact - Cooley is a top 5 TE this year, and has consistently been in the past. He had one game, ONE GAME, with the dropsies.

No wonder we ain't getting any better, Dan Snyder doesn't just own the team, there's a little bit of him in each one of you agenda boys, geez.

[Dan T.]

So, in your best, objective opinion..you honestly believe that he's making the argument that our TE is "single-handedly" stunting the growth of the entire team? Or was it just easy to use that quote in an intellectually dishonest way to "win" a minor point in this debate.

I don't think anyone in the "willing to trade Cooley" boat would make that argument. However, he's one of many Gibbs-era players who will probably be over-the-hill by the time we can contend, so why not get value in return for him if we can?

Intellectually dishonest is arguing that Chris Cooley is "stunting the growth of the team" and wildly exaggerating his every flaw as a rationale for trading him. The post above yours is a prime example of that.

I understand a rationale for trading Cooley. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I understand it.. But what is absurd, stupid, and - frankly - disgraceful is the tearing down of Cooley and his contributions to the team by some on this board as a justification for getting rid of him.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Intellectually dishonest is arguing that Chris Cooley is "stunting the growth of the team" and wildly exaggerating his every flaw as a rationale for trading him. The post above yours is a prime example of that.

I understand a rationale for trading Cooley. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I understand it.. And what is absurd, stupid, and - frankly - disgraceful is the tearing down of Cooley and his contributions to the team by some on this board as a justification for getting rid of him.

That's fair. I concede that some people on my side of this debate are exaggerating the point as well. I didn't mean to single you out, I just get sick of the constant re-wording of points to make a point. Off topic, so many times I'll see an exchange like this that never lends anything to the actual discussion:

Poster 1: The Redskins are one of the worst teams in the league this year.
Poster 2: REALLY??? You are telling me that you'd rather be the Bills?????

Anyway, back to the point...I've said all along that Cooley is good. Not great, but good. He's had some very good seasons. With a promising, cheaper, younger option behind him...I'd love to get a decent draft pick for him and continue to turn the page from the Gibbs II era.

[Tweedr01]

Intellectually dishonest is arguing that Chris Cooley is "stunting the growth of the team" and wildly exaggerating his every flaw as a rationale for trading him. The post above yours is a prime example of that.

I understand a rationale for trading Cooley. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I understand it.. But what is absurd, stupid, and - frankly - disgraceful is the tearing down of Cooley and his contributions to the team by some on this board as a justification for getting rid of him.
Exactly right, don't doubt for a second that no one on this team is above the team and cannot be traded.....but if you are going to give reasons, give legit reasons. Don't diminish what he has done for us, don't bring up blog pics that were an accident, don't bring up your personal feelings. These are not legit reasons to drop anyone, which includes everyone on our team. Do we have something better? Is the pick/player/both worth it? If there is nothing worth it, then what's the point? We will just be talking in circles.

---------- Post added January-6th-2011 at 03:05 PM ----------


That's fair. I concede that some people on my side of this debate are exaggerating the point as well. I didn't mean to single you out, I just get sick of the constant re-wording of points to make a point. Off topic, so many times I'll see an exchange like this that never lends anything to the actual discussion:

Poster 1: The Redskins are one of the worst teams in the league this year.
Poster 2: REALLY??? You are telling me that you'd rather be the Bills?????

Anyway, back to the point...I've said all along that Cooley is good. Not great, but good. He's had some very good seasons. With a promising, cheaper, younger option behind him...I'd love to get a decent draft pick for him and continue to turn the page from the Gibbs II era.
And that right there is very logical, however....I DISAGREE!!!!! :)

[Boss_Hogg]

Bringing up something like that, which obviously happened completely by accident, and calling him classless for it sounds like jealousy, or like someone has an agenda.

LOL at your insinuation of penis envy. :ols:

The penis shot wasn't the first time #47 posted a provocative picture online.


I don't care if you guys are discussing real reasons for any player to be traded but to bring up something like that as a reason to be traded is neither a logical nor a convincing argument.


So basically you completely ignored all my other points and "real reasons" on this Cooley debate yet focused on my comment about Cooley's ad nausem blogging and posting a photo of his junk?

EDIT: and yeah that post was in response to the Chris "Model Citizen" Cooley comment from another poster. It's not like I picked that out of the air.

[ConnSKINS26]

whoa there killer, it was meant light-heartedly towards a fellow skins fan, but since you are so sensitive, did you even read what he wrote?

I'm not being sensitive. I'm stating a fact. Everybody in here is tearing apart the weaker posts that are pro-trade, and not even attempting to address the ones that DO make a good argument, DON'T use hyperbole, and ARE defensible. They'd rather pick apart a weaker post, and respond with something like your last post, insinuating that being on the opposite side of this argument must make one the vengeful ex of Cooley's wife.


lol, man the agenda boys are out today. Listen guy, half of what you posted is YOUR OPINION and not fact.

This is an example of that. You pile on to this post rather than taking your position and confronting a more well-argued contribution to "my" side of the debate.


agenda boys, geez.

This post sets off the irony-meter alarm :ols:

Don't use a term you obviously don't understand, just because you see TR1 use it.


Exactly right, don't doubt for a second that no one on this team is above the team and cannot be traded.....but if you are going to give reasons, give legit reasons.

Fair enough. It would be easier if you just started off by addressing the posts that give "legit reasons", rather than targeting those (or the parts of those) that you don't believe do that, and saying they should be more like the posts you're....wait for it....not addressing anyways. Because they are harder to discount.

[Tweedr01]

LOL at your insinuation of penis envy. :ols:

The penis shot wasn't the first time #47 posted a provocative picture online.

So basically you completely ignored all my other points and "real reasons" on this Cooley debate yet focused on my comment about Cooley's ad nausem blogging and posting a photo of his junk?
What other provocative pics has he posted? I was pretty sure that was the only instance, but if you know of more....well I won't cite jealousy this time :)
Most of what you posted wasn't bad stuff, it was just redundant of what others had said, and were already arguing so I didn't think it was necessary to add to it. Just about everthing in this thread, whether for or against trading Cooley, are cherry picked stats, so all they are doing is proving the point of the person posting.

[ConnSKINS26]

Double post.

[Tweedr01]

I'm not being sensitive. I'm stating a fact. Everybody in here is tearing apart the weaker posts that are pro-trade, and not even attempting to address the ones that DO make a good argument, DON'T use hyperbole, and ARE defensible. They'd rather pick apart a weaker post, and respond with something like your last post, insinuating that being on the opposite side of this argument must make one the vengeful ex of Cooley's wife.

This is an example of that. You pile on to this post rather than taking your position and confronting a more well-argued contribution to "my" side of the debate.

This post sets off the irony-meter alarm :ols:

Don't use a term you obviously don't understand, just because you see TR1 use it.
lol, yeah, you are being sensitive, but it's ok, no big deal. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean you have to flip out and go postal guy. I only pointed out some of the more ludicrous statements on the pro-trade, why would I tell someone they are wrong when they make a valid argument for pro-trade? If it's legit, then why would they be wrong to post it? We are on a message board, we aren't influencing some conspiracy trade with Cooley, we are discussing the possibility of it.

I have no problem with someone validly stating their opinion, I do however think the more asinine posts should be pointed out as....well....asinine.

Man you guys sure do have a thing for tr1.

---------- Post added January-6th-2011 at 03:23 PM ----------


Double post.
Trigger finger getting itchy?

[Boss_Hogg]

What other provocative pics has he posted? I was pretty sure that was the only instance, but if you know of more....well I won't cite jealousy this time :)
Most of what you posted wasn't bad stuff, it was just redundant of what others had said, and were already arguing so I didn't think it was necessary to add to it. Just about everthing in this thread, whether for or against trading Cooley, are cherry picked stats, so all they are doing is proving the point of the person posting.

It's a photo of Cooley and his wife having sex in a tanning bed or something. Can't post it cause I'm at work.

I posted Cooley's fumbling stats, I compared his fumbling stats with those of other well known TEs to prove a point.

[Dan T.]

It's a photo of Cooley and his wife having sex in a tanning bed or something. Can't post it cause I'm at work.

I posted Cooley's fumbling stats, I compared his fumbling stats with those of other well known TEs to prove a point.

Cooley has lost a total of 4 fumbles in his 7 years in the league. TRADE HIM NOW!!!!!!

[Tweedr01]

It's a photo of Cooley and his wife having sex in a tanning bed or something. Can't post it cause I'm at work.

I posted Cooley's fumbling stats, I compared his fumbling stats with those of other well known TEs to prove a point.
Like I said, I'm not gonna tell you that you are wrong for providing fumbling stats, it's a legit reason to talk about trades. I understand that. I don't understand what accidental pics put onto the internet awhile ago have anything to do with it. He has legitimately been a very active person in the community, he doesn't have DUI's, doesn't try to rape girls in bathrooms, is a very nice person, and loves the fans, why should that all be nullified because of an accidental pic?

BTW, I'm witholding (sp?) judgement on the tanning bed pic because I've never seen it.

[Botched]

Abstract, can you tell us how you know so much about Logan Paulsen, who has barely set foot on the field? You've said he is a better blocker than Cooley, is a great pass catcher, and has tons of potential.

Please enlighten us?

[Tweedr01]

Cooley has lost a total of 4 fumbles in his 7 years in the league. TRADE HIM NOW!!!!!!
See I agree with you, I don't wanna trade him because it's only 4 lost fumbles, but I do understand where BH is coming from with his argument.

---------- Post added January-6th-2011 at 03:31 PM ----------


Abstract, can you tell us how you know so much about Logan Paulsen, who has barely set foot on the field? You've said he is a better blocker than Cooley, is a great pass catcher, and has tons of potential.

Please enlighten us?
Very intriguing, I would like to know too :)

[Boss_Hogg]

Cooley has lost a total of 4 fumbles in his 7 years in the league. TRADE HIM NOW!!!!!!

He has fumbled 11 times, all of which could have been lost. A fumble recovery is a crap shoot.
http://www.nfl.com/players/chriscooley/profile?id=COO376642



I don't understand what accidental pics put onto the internet awhile ago have anything to do with it. He has legitimately been a very active person in the community, he doesn't have DUI's, doesn't try to rape girls in bathrooms, is a very nice person, and loves the fans, why should that all be nullified because of an accidental pic?

BTW, I'm witholding (sp?) judgement on the tanning bed pic because I've never seen it.

Good points Tweedr, compared to other players Cooley's a good dude. I just wish he would spend more time away from the blogs

If you Google Chris Cooley and wife, you will see the photo.

[ConnSKINS26]

lol, yeah, you are being sensitive, but it's ok, no big deal. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean you have to flip out and go postal guy.

...Yeah. For someone whose been around for a while, you sure have a pretty low standard for what qualifies as "going postal".

Seeing you over in ATN, becoming a mini TR1/Califan007, I chuckled. Cowboys fans deserve to be treated that way, and its comical over there. But I knew that if you ever wandered over into the Stadium and I disagreed with you on something (or others did) it would turn into exactly this. Lots of "lols" and passive-aggressive insults. Lots of down-playing how seriously you're taking the debate compared to those you disagree with. But no substance. Because that's how you guys operate over in the ATN forum.

Its fine there. Its insulting here. Get a better sense of what a real debate is, or stay over in ATN and continue this act there.

But you'll just shrug off this post, "lol" at it, say I'm taking it too seriously, and that I should calm down because you're obviously "getting to me".

I'll say it again...That's how you guys do things over there, and its predictable as hell.

[Botched]

Does anyone have a list of how many drops he has had since that time frame (listed by the OP)?

I found this but to be honest it is a little fuzzy to me

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/te

This was Cooley's worst year for drops, and Stats LLC doesn't have him in the top 16 for drops in the NFL. Brent Celek, Brandon Pettigrew, and Tony Gonzalez are all on there though, along with a number of elite wide receivers.

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=nfl&type=receiving&rank=232

That's the only place I know where to find stats for dropped passes. I'm sure they aren't official, but I assume it's pretty accurate.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

This was Cooley's worst year for drops, and Stats LLC doesn't have him in the top 16 for drops in the NFL. Brent Celek, Brandon Pettigrew, and Tony Gonzalez are all on there though, along with a number of elite wide receivers.



On a side note, every game I watched Detroit play, I think Pettigrew dropped about 18 passes.

[ConnSKINS26]

On a side note, every game I watched Detroit play, I think Pettigrew dropped about 18 passes.

Interesting. I had wondered why his stats were what they were, when he was targeted so many times. Don't remember the numbers, but they're very high. Which makes sense, because you've got CJ taking the pressure off on the outside, and Shaun Hill using you as a panic outlet all season. But still, him being up there in drops makes sense.

[UK SKINS FAN '74]

Tell us again bedlamVR, or anyone else for that matter, how he's failed to take his opportunity. To fail, you need an opportunity in the first darn place. If we had an OC that had any comprehension of utilizing the weapons at his disposal, I don't see as there'd be ANY drop off in production from Cooley to Davis.

GHH, I do recall one of our 'insiders' stating that Davis was not setting the world alight in practice, poor route was cited at the time, and that was not sitting well with the coaches. Can't find the quote, so I'm afraid you'll have to take my word for it :)..It was posted though, so maybe that has been a factor...:whoknows:

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

GHH, I do recall one of our 'insiders' stating that Davis was not setting the world alight in practice, poor route was cited at the time, and that was not sitting well with the coaches. Can't find the quote, so I'm afraid you'll have to take my word for it :)..It was posted though, so maybe that has been a factor...:whoknows:

Honestly didn't know that '74, and I certainly don't disbelieve you.

That may well of been a factor, dependent on the time frame the quote was from. All we've had to judge him on as fans has been his actual on-field play and production, and that's been pretty darn impressive every chance he's had.

Hail.

[Boss_Hogg]

Tweedr,

I just came across this:

TMZ.COM - Fred Davis Accused of Assaulting Woman

:doh:

looks like you win the "classy" argument. ;)

[UK SKINS FAN '74]

All we've had to judge him on as fans has been his actual on-field play and production, and that's been pretty darn impressive every chance he's had.

Hail.

Agreed, kid looks pretty good. Gotta sort something out one way or another before he becomes a FA and walks for nothing..

[erock353]

He's a really good receiver, doesn't drop TOO many balls. In any given game, he and Moss have often been the only thing going on offense the past few years. I do think he has decent trade value to many teams, but not interested in letting him go. His fumble/TD ratio (weird metric btw) is mostly a function of the crappy offenses he's been a part of...two fumbles per season is really not that bad considering his activity level. How often have you really been disappointed by his play? He's like the poor man's London Fletcher on offense (always solid, very rarely pisses you off, sometimes spectacular).

Keep him and Davis. You see what New England does with two good receiving TEs. Now we just need to find our Brady. :)


My point of view exactly. Davis and Cooley kind of off-set one of another. One is the big, fast, athletic one and the other your very solid one. Great combo to have in my opinion. Allows much more disguise to be used on offense. If it is properly used that is.

[icbmayday]

Cooley isnt going anywhere

[Tweedr01]

...Yeah. For someone whose been around for a while, you sure have a pretty low standard for what qualifies as "going postal".

Seeing you over in ATN, becoming a mini TR1/Califan007, I chuckled. Cowboys fans deserve to be treated that way, and its comical over there. But I knew that if you ever wandered over into the Stadium and I disagreed with you on something (or others did) it would turn into exactly this. Lots of "lols" and passive-aggressive insults. Lots of down-playing how seriously you're taking the debate compared to those you disagree with. But no substance. Because that's how you guys operate over in the ATN forum.

Its fine there. Its insulting here. Get a better sense of what a real debate is, or stay over in ATN and continue this act there.

But you'll just shrug off this post, "lol" at it, say I'm taking it too seriously, and that I should calm down because you're obviously "getting to me".

I'll say it again...That's how you guys do things over there, and its predictable as hell.
here's your lol for the response, but really, what are you arguing? are you mad because I'm not disagreeing with anyone providing a valid argument? my first post was in response to BH and he gets it, you seem to be the only one in your little piss party. good for you. I pointed out something I didn't think should be a valid argument, and other than that I have stated if there you have a legit reason for wanting to trade ANY player I'm not going to argue it. None of us know exactly what the coach will use to decide why he will trade a player, that's why we are fans, and they get paid to make the calls. Love how you only responded to the first sentence and didn't even respond to the rest of the post explaining what I just explained for you....again.

That's fine little guy, I remember when I had my first beer, once you grow up you'll probably mature into having debates and enjoying other people giving their opinion without blasting them. BTW, what are you disagreeing with me on?

Tweedr,

I just came across this:

TMZ.COM - Fred Davis Accused of Assaulting Woman

:doh:

looks like you win the "classy" argument. ;)
lol, I just heard about that this morning, ugh, but it does seem that the witnesses all claim that she was WAY over exaggerating what happened and dude was drinking orange juice. I would like to get a poll of people here on this message board who would be able to drink orange juice out at a club, and it probably means he hadn't been drinking all night.

[justice98]

This was Cooley's worst year for drops, and Stats LLC doesn't have him in the top 16 for drops in the NFL. Brent Celek, Brandon Pettigrew, and Tony Gonzalez are all on there though, along with a number of elite wide receivers.

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=nfl&type=receiving&rank=232

That's the only place I know where to find stats for dropped passes. I'm sure they aren't official, but I assume it's pretty accurate.

I think the fact that we see every play of every game skews our perception, so we think Moss and Cooley have to be amongst the leaders in drops, when comparatively, they're no worse than anyone else and probably better than most as far as this stat is concerned.

[Dan T.]

I think the fact that we see every play of every game skews our perception, so we think Moss and Cooley have to be amongst the leaders in drops, when comparatively, they're no worse than anyone else and probably better than most as far as this stat is concerned.


Bingo. It's the same with left tackle. We see every sack Trent Williams gives up, so all of a sudden "he was a mistake to take that high in the draft and not that good of a tackle, so let's move him to guard." It's a fan myopia.

[sempre_victrix]

Cooley may have some fumbles, but how many of those were from trying to eke out that extra yard that he needed to get a first down in Zorn's ****ty offensive scheme?

How many TD's did he drop in the endzone? One comes to mind.

If we don't target him in the red zone, he is unlikely to score that many touchdowns.

[ukvillaskin]

Cooley's a great TE. He had 2 or 3 ropey games this season, where he dropped a few catches, but he was playing injured at the time. The rest of the time he's been one of the best players on the team. I've lost count of the times he's eeked out extra yards for a first. He's been a rock again this season.

[Califan007]

Seeing you over in ATN, becoming a mini TR1/Califan007, I chuckled. Cowboys fans deserve to be treated that way, and its comical over there. But I knew that if you ever wandered over into the Stadium and I disagreed with you on something (or others did) it would turn into exactly this. Lots of "lols" and passive-aggressive insults. Lots of down-playing how seriously you're taking the debate compared to those you disagree with. But no substance. Because that's how you guys operate over in the ATN forum.
Excuse me? You wanna clarify this comment some? lol...

[OVCChairman]

Cooley has the second most receptions by a TE this season... He plays as hard if not harder then any TE in the league. If he got targeted in the first half like he did in the second half, he'd have over 100 catches this season. Like another poster said, 2 fumbles a year... i'll take it from one of the most productive offensive players on the team..