When is the Last Time we had a System QB that was Talented

[Chiefinonhaze]

It must have been before I started watching football, because the only one I can remember is Todd Collins, and he ended up leading us to the playoffs. I can't remember a time we had a QB in the same system for 3 or more years. This will be Rex Grossman's 3rd year under Kyle Shanahan.

There are several QB's who are/or were in the same scenario in the NFL. Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Big Ben, Matt Cassel with Pats, Mcnabb with the Eagles, Joe Flacco, and I'm sure there are more. The main thing is, continuity in offensive scheme breeds success at the QB position.

Rex Grossman might not be Tom Brady, but he is much more physically talented than Todd Collins, and much younger. It is important for a QB to know the scheme in and out, because he will know all of the hot reads and audibles to dissect a defense. It will also allow a QB to minimize mistakes.

Not only does the QB need to know the system, the rest of the offense needs to know it to in order to help the QB succeed. The WR's needs to know the hot routes as well, to bail the QB out when he is under pressure. The O-line needs to know all of the protection calls to minimize sacks. This was everyones first year in the system, except for Rex. Maybe some of those sacks/turnovers weren't his fault?

I don't think we should squander the opportunity to finally have a QB who has mastered a system here in D.C. Rex should go into next season as the starter, and we should bring in a competent young backup, or a rookie.

[Hooper]

I would be shocked if Rex isn't the starter next year. It just makes sense. We'll draft someone for sure, but they won't be ready. And the other journeyman out there -- guys like Bulger -- aren't familiar with the system.

[Mr. Cooke]

It must have been before I started watching football, because the only one I can remember is Todd Collins, and he ended up leading us to the playoffs. I can't remember a time we had a QB in the same system for 3 or more years. This will be Rex Grossman's 3rd year under Kyle Shanahan.

There are several QB's who are/or were in the same scenario in the NFL. Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Big Ben, Matt Cassel with Pats, Mcnabb with the Eagles, Joe Flacco, and I'm sure there are more. The main thing is, continuity in offensive scheme breeds success at the QB position.

Rex Grossman might not be Tom Brady, but he is much more physically talented than Todd Collins, and much younger. It is important for a QB to know the scheme in and out, because he will know all of the hot reads and audibles to dissect a defense. It will also allow a QB to minimize mistakes.

Not only does the QB need to know the system, the rest of the offense needs to know it to in order to help the QB succeed. The WR's needs to know the hot routes as well, to bail the QB out when he is under pressure. The O-line needs to know all of the protection calls to minimize sacks. This was everyones first year in the system, except for Rex. Maybe some of those sacks/turnovers weren't his fault?

I don't think we should squander the opportunity to finally have a QB who has mastered a system here in D.C. Rex should go into next season as the starter, and we should bring in a competent young backup, or a rookie.



"Rex Grossman might not be Tom Brady, but he is much more physically talented than Todd Collins"


Nyet!

[ibarramedia]

I don't know how old you are but Mark Rypien was in Joe Gibbs' one back, H-Back system for many years. He actually has 2 superbowl rings since he was with the team as a 3rd and 4th string quarterback behind Doug Williams, Jay Schroeder,and Stan Humphries when we won Superbowl XXII. Then as a starter in the 1989 season until the year after we won Superbowl XXVI.

[darrelgreenie]

Jason Campbell?

[PlayAction]

Chiefinonhaze writes "The main thing is, continuity in offensive scheme breeds success at the QB position.
Rex Grossman might not be Tom Brady, but he is much more physically talented than Todd Collins, and much younger. It is important for a QB to know the scheme in and out, because he will know all of the hot reads and audibles to dissect a defense. It will also allow a QB to minimize mistakes.
The O-line needs to know all of the protection calls to minimize sacks. This was everyones first year in the system, except for Rex. Maybe some of those sacks/turnovers weren't his fault?"

Rex may be well suited to the Shanahan offense. The issue he has to overcome is fumbles and interceptions. But definitely not all of the fumbles/interceptions are his fault. Trent Williams was beaten on several ocassions resulting in the ball being stripped from behind. The interception against the Giants was the exact same mistake made during his first start (pass to Sellers where Sellers went on a go route and Rex thought he would take the wheel route). In both cases, miscommunication rather than a mental error on Rex's part.

Skins are not going to be able to move up and take QB Luck without selling out all other team needs. I don't think it's necessary to put all the Skins resources into a new rookie QB. Even if the Skins draft a QB in the first round we really won't know whether the guy is going to pan out. Remember Heath Schuler?

Grossman definitely could fill the role of caretaker QB. It's not necessarily a bad thing to go with a "good enough" QB. It's going to take a lot more than the QB to convert the franchise into a perennial winner.

[More Complete]

According to Sonny Jurgensen system doesn’t matter. Or rather, it is over rated. I tend to agree. Great QBs are great QBs, good ones are good, bad ones are bad. A good coach will tailor his offense to a QBs strengths but there is only so far knowing a system inside and out will take you.

[cphil006]

According to Sonny Jurgensen system doesn’t matter. Or rather, it is over rated. I tend to agree. Great QBs are great QBs, good ones are good, bad ones are bad. A good coach will tailor his offense to a QBs strengths but there is only so far knowing a system inside and out will take you.

Did our "coaches" tailor their system to the players this season? I'd have to say, no.

[thebluefood]

It seems like the last "great" or even "talented" quarterback this team has had was Sonny Jurgensen. The rest were, at their best, teetering on the edge of greatness (Joe Theismann would probably fit that description, but I'm not sure) or benefited from having one of the greatest offensive lines in the history of the league and a hall of fame Wide Receiver...or they just flat out stank.

[cphil006]

Trent Green???

[Probos]

Sammy Baugh?

[thebluefood]

Sammy Baugh?

Probably the only "great" quarterback we had that the helm of a championship team. Poor Sonny never reached the mountain top.

[JPCreativelab]

Sammy Baugh?

that would be my vote.

was never a huge Joe T fan, and even less of a Doug Williams fan, and not a fan at all of M Rypien...the team was stellar...he just had to not make mistakes.

the way i look at it, we are still waiting for that really great franchise QB...of my lifetime :D

[Grimm]

I don't know how old you are but Mark Rypien was in Joe Gibbs' one back, H-Back system for many years. He actually has 2 superbowl rings since he was with the team as a 3rd and 4th string quarterback behind Doug Williams, Jay Schroeder,and Stan Humphries when we won Superbowl XXII. Then as a starter in the 1989 season until the year after we won Superbowl XXVI.

Rypien is the obvious pick, put up huge numbers with us in Gibbs system and did nothing anywhere else. That said I am ok with Grossman next year as long as he is the bridge to a good young QB either this draft or in 2012.

[Darth Tater]

Almost all systems in football today started so that teams of suck could compete with the good teams. A good player can play well in any system but can become elite if he learns the system he is in. A good system QB is a guy who has limited talent but has a given system down pat and is willing to do what he can do to execute within his abilities.

[JerseyGator]

If there aren't a lot of system QBs out there, then why don't a lot of QBs have success on multiple teams. I can think of two recent exceptions in Drew Brees and Kurt Warner, but they had an awful lot of support in their new systems (BTW, Warner was horrible with the Giants).

Cutler has been more turnover prone in Chicago than Rex - both now have 31 starts in their Chicago careers. And Cutler was consiered a can't miss by most of the talking heads with the NFL and the like. Orton was not very good in Chicago's system but was much better with Denver.

IMO, Brady and Manning are the only two QBs in the league who could switch systems rather easily, but both need lots of OL protection to succeed. The Patriots at last check have had the same OL coach for over 20 years.

Yes, this would be Rex's third year in the system but he's only played about 3 1/2 games in this system with two different teams.

The NFL breeds little else but system QBs IMO. Even Eli Manning had the Giants pick his college QB coach as their QB coach at one point. QBs aren't nearly as flexible as they used to be IMO.

[Shabby]

I would be shocked if Rex isn't the starter next year. It just makes sense. We'll draft someone for sure, but they won't be ready. And the other journeyman out there -- guys like Bulger -- aren't familiar with the system.

I think thats our problem. We always say someone isnt ready. Sam bradford was plugged in, and he almost led them to the playoffs. Colt McCoy came in, i believe he had a rough start, but then he picked it up a lot towards the end of the season. Then again, we all saw what Jimmy Clausen(sp) did, and i remember how many people on this board wanted him here lol.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

The best QB we've had in the last 20 years is Brad Johnson.

[herb mul-key]

C'mon Joey T lit it up w the smurfs...and Art Monk...the Fun Bunch!....Gibbs 1 we passed to set up the run...tire a D out w the pass in the 1st half and Riggo drill their worn out asses in Q4....the first drive always included a big play to Didier or TE down the middle to back off the linebackers and safeties

[Ashburn Dave]

Did our "coaches" tailor their system to the players this season? I'd have to say, no.

Do the coaches always have to tailor their systems to the players? I understand the idea but I would prefer a coach that implements his system (if it's a proven one) and then get the players to fit it and run it for years to come.

[Darth Tater]

Do the coaches always have to tailor their systems to the players? I understand the idea but I would prefer a coach that implements his system (if it's a proven one) and then get the players to fit it and run it for years to come.
Successful football teams have been tailoring there systems to fit their players since the early 1900s. The WCO is, at its core, a system that is supposed to be tailorable to the skill sets of its players.

[Audible_Red40]

Jeff George - FTW !!!

[nyfan]

Brad Johnson

[pjfootballer]

It seems like the last "great" or even "talented" quarterback this team has had was Sonny Jurgensen. The rest were, at their best, teetering on the edge of greatness (Joe Theismann would probably fit that description, but I'm not sure) or benefited from having one of the greatest offensive lines in the history of the league and a hall of fame Wide Receiver...or they just flat out stank.

Sonny did better in Lombardi's system even though it was for one year. He didn't do so well in Allen's system, since Allen was so conservative.

The One back H-Back system was designed for Lawrence Taylor to have a TE (Warren) help with blocking Joey T's blinds side. Gibbs also installed some sprint options for Theismann to elude the rush.

[thebluefood]

Sonny did better in Lombardi's system even though it was for one year. He didn't do so well in Allen's system, since Allen was so conservative.

The One back H-Back system was designed for Lawrence Taylor to have a TE (Warren) help with blocking Joey T's blinds side. Gibbs also installed some sprint options for Theismann to elude the rush.
I thought Lombardi's system was just as conservative as Allen's, in that he didn't like passing the ball (the Packer sweet was the cornerstone of his championship teams in Green Bay).

From what I've seen on his stat sheet and from old highlight reels, Sonny was THE man, no doubt.

[TheItalianStallion]

Define "talented."

[Redskin4ever]

The best QB we've had in the last 20 years is Brad Johnson.

I agree completely. The guy was great. It's a shame that his arm was weak. Obviously, not everyone appreciated what he had, and so boy george was brought in to ruin things for a while. I would have loved to see Brad Johnson playing Marty Ball in 2001.

[Chiefinonhaze]

I think some people misunderstood the point of this thread. I shouldn't have capitalized the word Talented in the thread title.

I consider most NFL QB's to possess talent. To reach this level, most guys have a high level of talent. My question was, when was the last time we had a QB under center that had studied in the same system for 3 or more years. Todd Collins is the only one that comes to mind. I'm 21, so I was very young when we had Rypien. It seems to be a common denominator that all of the elite QB's have studied a single system for several years. I forgot to mention Aaron Rodgers. He is another QB who has benefited from a lack of turnover at the OC position.

[justice98]

I would contend we've had a couple talented (at least moderately so) QBs and sketchy systems. I still would've liked to have seen Jason Campbell and Patrick Ramsey develop in competent systems and non-dysfunctional organizations, cuz I think they both got short circuited right out of the gate. And then we saw what kind of QB Trent Green became once he left town and found a good system.

[Horatio]

The last QB that the Redskins DRAFTED who turned out to be a long-term superstar?

Sammy Baugh, drafted in 1937.

Jurgensen was good, but was drafted by the Eagles and traded to the Skins.
Kilmer was decent, but was drafted by the 49ers and traded to the Skins.
Theismann was decent, but was only truly dominant for 2-3 years.
Doug Williams was decent, but was drafted by the Buccaneers and traded to the Skins.
Jay Schroeder had one decent year.
Mark Rypien was drafted by the Skins and had 1-2 good years.
Heath Shuler? Please...

[Woofer]

that would be my vote.

was never a huge Joe T fan, and even less of a Doug Williams fan, and not a fan at all of M Rypien...the team was stellar...he just had to not make mistakes.

the way i look at it, we are still waiting for that really great franchise QB...of my lifetime :D

I don't completely agree about Theisman or Rypien. Theisman cut his teeth playing behind both Jurgensen and Kilmer. He even returned punts for a while just so he could contribute to the team's effort.
Rypien worked long and hard. He earned his SB ring and MVP. Also, he had a heck of a long pass.

For Williams, he had a long, long and difficult run in Tampa and deserved his shot in the SB. However, I was never that big a fan of his either, and he has shown that his heart lies in Tampa.

[DCMONEY]

The Skins today don't run their team the way that the Championship Skins teams did. I think its nice if a team has a franchise QB. The Skins IMO back in the day always emphasized O-line. The thing is all the Skill position players benefited from the Skins having an excellent O-line. The Skins always had depth on the O-line. The Skins O-line nowadays is a joke. That falls on the front office to me. No QB or any skill position player is gonna flourish behind these bad o-lines. Thats the bottom line. Constant change doesn't help either. I mean whoever the Skins get at QB needs help up front 1st and foremost, then get some WR's.

[thebluefood]

The last QB that the Redskins DRAFTED who turned out to be a long-term superstar?

Sammy Baugh, drafted in 1937.

Jurgensen was good, but was drafted by the Eagles and traded to the Skins.
Kilmer was decent, but was drafted by the 49ers and traded to the Skins.
Theismann was decent, but was only truly dominant for 2-3 years.
Doug Williams was decent, but was drafted by the Buccaneers and traded to the Skins.
Jay Schroeder had one decent year.
Mark Rypien was drafted by the Skins and had 1-2 good years.
Heath Shuler? Please...

When you get right down to it, the Redskins have seldom had "great" quarterbacks or even "good" quarterbacks. We've built our success on staunch defenses, extra-ordinary special teams, and having a solid corps in the trenches. That, to me, is the Redskins way. During the past 15-20 years, we've walked away from that and tried to build teams like everyone else. The Redskins, it seems, just aren't like everyone else. We have our own way of doing things, and when we stick to it, we win. When we focus on the guys that do the grunt work, we win.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

Brad Johnson? I thought he did pretty well for us.

[ibarramedia]

He would have had a good 10 year career for us. I hated losing him to Jeff George. That was a wrong move. Brad is a good guy and I'm glad he was able to win a Superbowl with the Bucs.

[honejc]

BRING back Jason campbell to be backup!

thats a sick QB tandem

[Ashburn Dave]

Successful football teams have been tailoring there systems to fit their players since the early 1900s. The WCO is, at its core, a system that is supposed to be tailorable to the skill sets of its players.

Successful football teams also bring in players that fit their systems so that the coaches don't need to always adjust to them.

[Darth Tater]

Successful football teams also bring in players that fit their systems so that the coaches don't need to always adjust to them.

Ask Knute Rockne why he installed the first modern passing game at Notre Dame. Ask Fordham why they developed the ZBS back in the late 20s/early 30s. Ask Clark Shaughnessy why he developed the T-Form at Chicago and later took it to the nth at Standford. Ask why he later developed the 3-End formation (pro-set) while HC at the Rams. Ask why Brown developed the use of timing patterns and layering. Ask why Lombardi brought the ZBS he learned at Fordham. Ask why the 3-4 was invented and later implemented in the NFL. Ask why the wishbone, the veer attack were created, Why the WCO was created in fact the traditional WCO is all about morphing to the players you got. Why "Air Coryell" was invented. I could go on but EVERY ONE of these exists to either be able to use almost anybody willing to work hard and has some talent or to take advantage of some players unique skills sets. Its been a rather recent phenomena to find the right players to fit your system.

[skinsfan_1215]

BRING back Jason campbell to be backup!

thats a sick QB tandem

Stay in school kid

[Ashburn Dave]

Ask Knute Rockne why he installed the first modern passing game at Notre Dame. Ask Fordham why they developed the ZBS back in the late 20s/early 30s. Ask Clark Shaughnessy why he developed the T-Form at Chicago and later took it to the nth at Standford. Ask why he later developed the 3-End formation (pro-set) while HC at the Rams. Ask why Brown developed the use of timing patterns and layering. Ask why Lombardi brought the ZBS he learned at Fordham. Ask why the 3-4 was invented and later implemented in the NFL. Ask why the wishbone, the veer attack were created, Why the WCO was created in fact the traditional WCO is all about morphing to the players you got. Why "Air Coryell" was invented. I could go on but EVERY ONE of these exists to either be able to use almost anybody willing to work hard and has some talent or to take advantage of some players unique skills sets. Its been a rather recent phenomena to find the right players to fit your system.

Everyone of your examples are game changing innovations which takes a special coach to come along every decade or so and implement. These are not the norm.

Obviously you want your coach to play to the strengths of their players.

This is why smart coaches bring in players that can play their schemes. If you run zone blocking then that coach is going to bring in OL that can play it. He should not draft the best available OL if that guy does not fit into zone blocking................unless your point is that the coach should and then change his whole philosophy on how he wants to run the ball.

[Hitman21ST]

BRING back Jason campbell to be backup!

thats a sick QB tandem

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