Rotoworld: Rocky not expected back

[turtle]

The Redskins are not expected to retain impending free agent LB Rocky McIntosh for the 2011 season.

McIntosh wasn't awful in his first season as a 3-4 inside 'backer, racking up a career high 110 tackles, but the Skins weren't pleased that he skipped all of 2010 offseason workouts. Mike Shanahan is trying to run a tight ship.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playernews.aspx?sport=NFL

[addicted]

Wait what? He had 100+ tackles but the only thing that matters is some off season workout? I don't believe this is why he won't be back. Seems unbelievable to me

[fdarugar]

Makes sense. We are looking for guys that fit the scheme. I am really hoping we make a run at David Harris.

[Dukes and Skins]

Wait what? He had 100+ tackles but the only thing that matters is some off season workout? I don't believe this is why he won't be back. Seems unbelievable to me

That's not the real reason thats just something to stir up controversy. Its just simply the fact he doesnt fit the 3-4 D

[Xero21]

I don't know how he got over 100 tackles. He looked pretty bad at times in the 3-4.

[K.O. Johnny]

Great. Shanny wasn't f++king pleased and so we lose another decent player. I thought Rocky was solid and did his stuff. Never mind, we've got so many picks we can afford to throw away top picks from a few years back.

Way to go

[terpskins10]

Having high tackle numbers doesn't necessarily mean you played well. Any fan can tell you that watching Rocky, he looked out of place a lot of the time and we can definitely use an upgrade.

Sorry the scheme change screwed you, Rocky. You were a very good OLB. Good luck wherever you go.

[SkinsMaster88]

I saw Rocky overruning plays plenty of times and struggling to get off of blocks. Granted some of that might be due to the poor performance of the DL within our 3-4 scheme, but Rocky definitely seemed to be a weak link this year. I like the guy and wish it would've worked out, but like Andre Carter, he fits in a 4-3, not a 3-4. We need to get an upgrade at multiple positions including his.

[nightbird]

Enter Perry Riley or HB Blades or maybe Lorenzo moving inside.

Another failed Gibbs-Snyderatto personnel move.

I remember we had to trade up in the draft to get Rocky, because we desperately needed to replace a human turnstile named Warrick Holdman, who for some reason we (Grilliams) thought could be a reliable starter.

So we trade away even more picks to get rocky in the low 30s, and he was okay, but now after (yet another) scheme change, he's expendable.

Panic moves, tossing away draft picks like party favors, scrambling to fit new square pegs into freshly-cut round holes . . . hopefully those days are over soon.



.

[Dukes and Skins]

Great. Shanny wasn't f++king pleased and so we lose another decent player. I thought Rocky was solid and did his stuff. Never mind, we've got so many picks we can afford to throw away top picks from a few years back.

Way to go

He was terrible fit for the 3-4 though, Perry Riley looked 10 times better than him in the limited time he was on the field

[djnominal]

I just looked up his totals. I can believe he had 110 since he did have 94 last year. If he dont fit the scheme he doesnt fit the scheme no point in holding onto him

http://www.nfl.com/players/rockymcintosh/profile?id=MCI506148

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Great. Shanny wasn't f++king pleased and so we lose another decent player. I thought Rocky was solid and did his stuff. Never mind, we've got so many picks we can afford to throw away top picks from a few years back.

Way to go

I think we have two guys currently on the roster who fit the scheme better than he did. I think we'll be OK without Rocky.

[rockfan7224]

Is Rocky a FA this offseason?


Edit: Apparently did not read OP well enough, haha

[themurf]

Wait what? He had 100+ tackles but the only thing that matters is some off season workout? I don't believe this is why he won't be back. Seems unbelievable to me

Official stats list Rocky McIntosh at 73 solo tackles and 37 assisted tackles for the 2010 season. That being said, he was not as good as this link suggests. I'd argue that, aside from Kareem Moore, he was the second most noticeable player on the defense when it came to guys doing an awful job of tackling this season. Too many guys just bounced off of him or eluded him without even slowing down for my liking and I really think he's hoping to get his one big paycheck this time around. Wish him well and be happy the team can upgrade the position with someone who is a better fit.

[fdarugar]

Great. Shanny wasn't f++king pleased and so we lose another decent player. I thought Rocky was solid and did his stuff. Never mind, we've got so many picks we can afford to throw away top picks from a few years back.

Way to go

Dude, we had the 2nd worst defense in the league...changes need to be made and it starts with the players that don't fit the scheme.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Another failed Gibbs-Snyderatto personnel move.
I don't consider Rocky to be a failed pick.

It's not his fault that the base defense was changed. Same with Andre Carter or contrary to popular belief, Albert Haynesworth.

[authentic]

The quote is taken from this WP article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/05/AR2011010505515_3.html?sid=ST2011010600004)....I think its a pretty decent read.

[skinsfan4life7]

I like Rocky...but a lot of the time he is just invisible on the field. We need more play making linebackers, and linebackers that fit the system. It seems Landry is the only player that can lay a big hit out on someone, maybe Barnes too.

[Boss_Hogg]

I think we all saw this coming.

He doesn't fit in the 3-4.

Thanks for your service Rocky!

[authentic]

Official stats list Rocky McIntosh at 73 solo tackles and 37 assisted tackles for the 2010 season. That being said, he was not as good as this link suggests. I'd argue that, aside from Kareem Moore, he was the second most noticeable player on the defense when it came to guys doing an awful job of tackling this season. Too many guys just bounced off of him or eluded him without even slowing down for my liking and I really think he's hoping to get his one big paycheck this time around. Wish him well and be happy the team can upgrade the position with someone who is a better fit.

-Yeah, it would have been nice to see P. Riley get more PT at the end of the season. I can't imagine that the team is willing to shell out the type of money Rocky is looking for. I'm also of the belief that he needs to hit the road.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Dude, we had the 2nd worst defense in the league...changes need to be made and it starts with the players that don't fit the scheme.

Yep...I think Rocky seems like a great guy...but too many people seem to settle for "he was OK and has been here for a couple years..."

[airborneskins]

If this is true, Good luck wherever you end up Rocky.

With that said, I believe that Shanny is going to right this ship and if that means not re-signing fan favorites, then so be it.

[TK]

Official stats list Rocky McIntosh at 73 solo tackles and 37 assisted tackles for the 2010 season. That being said, he was not as good as this link suggests. I'd argue that, aside from Kareem Moore, he was the second most noticeable player on the defense when it came to guys doing an awful job of tackling this season. Too many guys just bounced off of him or eluded him without even slowing down for my liking and I really think he's hoping to get his one big paycheck this time around. Wish him well and be happy the team can upgrade the position with someone who is a better fit.
This & that it didn't help a few weeks ago when even Rocky was saying he's a bad fit for the 3-4.

[The Tris]

Sure, Rocky doesn't fit the scheme, but neither does London.

London, though, didn't miss tackle after tackle this season.

Poor fit + poor play = goodbye.

[Homercles82]

Wait what? He had 100+ tackles but the only thing that matters is some off season workout? I don't believe this is why he won't be back. Seems unbelievable to me

He made plenty of tackles but very few plays. Everytime I looked at him he was getting beat or run over.

[TK]

Another failed Gibbs-Snyderatto personnel move.

I remember we had to trade up in the draft to get Rocky,
Just because Rocky was the guy we picked after moving up, doesn't mean he was the guy we moved up to get. ;)

[authentic]

Having high tackle numbers doesn't necessarily mean you played well. Any fan can tell you that watching Rocky, he looked out of place a lot of the time and we can definitely use an upgrade.

Sorry the scheme change screwed you, Rocky. You were a very good OLB. Good luck wherever you go.

Thats not true. He's an average LB. He doesn't suck, but he's not the type of player that should be the core of a rebuilding defense. And truth be told, he was partically responsible for alot of big running plays this year (constantly out of position & and missing tackles).

[NattyBo]

Good riddance. One of the most overrated players by our own fans because he was good in college. He was never great here, in a 4-3 or a 3-4 he constantly got run through or run past. His ridiculous celebrations after he tackled opposing players for a GAIN won't be missed, either.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Just because Rocky was the guy we picked after moving up, doesn't mean he was the guy we moved up to get. ;)


Interesting.....

[p0rtis26]

I thought we moved up to get D'Qwell Jackson...

[S.T.real,lights,out]

Wait what? He had 100+ tackles but the only thing that matters is some off season workout? I don't believe this is why he won't be back. Seems unbelievable to me

I thought the same thing. Thought Rocky did pretty well not great. For the right price id like to keep him but i think he's going to want way too much $$

[skinsfan4life7]

Time to give up and move on. He was serviceable while he was here but we need more than that. He misses way too many tackles and is not that fast. Time for an upgrade.

[Chump Bailey]

I like Rocky and he played well in the 43 IMO. I'm sure he find another home soon and wish him well.

[skinsfan4life7]

Watch Rocky join the Giants like Antonio Pierce did.

[fdarugar]

Watch Rocky join the Giants like Antonio Pierce did.

Haha, what the hell does this even mean? Antonio Pierce was a beast here and we tried to retain him. You can't compare their situations at all.

[nightbird]

I don't consider Rocky to be a failed pick.

It's not his fault that the base defense was changed. Same with Andre Carter or contrary to popular belief, Albert Haynesworth.

I consider it a failure anyway. If we trade away picks to move up to the top of the 2nd round for a guy, I expect the guy to develop into a high-level starter.

That doesn't mean it's his failure alone. It's an organization failure.

As far as Carter goes, he wasn't a draft pick, and he at least tried to do everything asked of him. So whatever, he gave us some pretty good years and I don't hold anything against him.

Haynesworth is in a completely different category in my book, and I'll leave it at that.

---------- Post added January-6th-2011 at 02:44 PM ----------


Just because Rocky was the guy we picked after moving up, doesn't mean he was the guy we moved up to get. ;)

Okay so we traded picks away to move up and draft a guy we weren't even targeting.

That sort of . . . makes it worse.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Okay so we traded picks away to move up and draft a guy we weren't even targeting.

That sort of . . . makes it worse.

I'd have to agree there. If we moved up prematurely and then were stuck taking someone we didn't want at that spot...yikes!

[ConnSKINS26]

Wait what? He had 100+ tackles but the only thing that matters is some off season workout? I don't believe this is why he won't be back. Seems unbelievable to me

He doesn't fit this defense. He may had had 100+ tackles, but they were mostly after gains that shouldn't have been made. Not to mention the streaks he had where he just couldn't make a tackle, it seemed.

[DRSmith]

Enter Perry Riley or HB Blades or maybe Lorenzo moving inside.

Another failed Gibbs-Snyderatto personnel move.

I remember we had to trade up in the draft to get Rocky, because we desperately needed to replace a human turnstile named Warrick Holdman, who for some reason we (Grilliams) thought could be a reliable starter.

So we trade away even more picks to get rocky in the low 30s, and he was okay, but now after (yet another) scheme change, he's expendable.

Panic moves, tossing away draft picks like party favors, scrambling to fit new square pegs into freshly-cut round holes . . . hopefully those days are over soon.



.

I am not sure why they do not have LA move down to DE he is stong as heck with him Carriker and Bryant I think we would have a decent base for our front three

We need someone like Woodley if is a FA to play opposite Orakpo

[skinsfan4life7]

Haha, what the hell does this even mean? Antonio Pierce was a beast here and we tried to retain him. You can't compare their situations at all.

Haha I know Pierce was a beast, I'm just saying he would go there with a chip on his shoulder to play against us, and since they run the 4-3 he would fit the system. And our linebackers just like to go to NY for some reason...Lavar and Pierce

[ABSTRACT]

Great move by Shanny. Alot of people do not like change but I love it. To be Great requires change!!!!!!! To continue mediocrity requires the same!!!! I wish we could have traded him to the Saints for a 4th rounder. He's better off on a 4-3 team. Hopefully we can get draft picks for him and Carter!!!! SHip both of them out and get some 3-4 LBs. I LOVE IT.....Yes Shanny!!!!

Great move for my man P. Riley. Now he can showcase his excellence. He is going to dominate the middle LB position. A big body that's going to stop guys in their tracks. wow!!! Cannot wait to see P. Riley and Landry out there. Our 3-4 defense is coming together!!!! I'm getting so excited lmao!!!!

[TheLongshot]

This is expected. I was thinking that no matter how he performed he was going to hit the open market to go to some team who runs a 4-3 defense. He's in the prime of his career and wants to get paid.


I am not sure why they do not have LA move down to DE he is stong as heck with him Carriker and Bryant I think we would have a decent base for our front three

Alexander is a bit undersized for that role.

[p0rtis26]

Remember when we wouldn't include Rocky in a trade to Chicago for Briggs...lol.

[CoolUsernameHere]

I really liked Rocky. But it appears he's not in the coaches' plans. Good luck to him wherever he ends up.

[DRSmith]

This is expected. I was thinking that no matter how he performed he was going to hit the open market to go to some team who runs a 4-3 defense. He's in the prime of his career and wants to get paid.



Alexander is a bit undersized for that role.

20 more pounds and it good to go he is already like 275

[skinsfan4life7]

I am not sure why they do not have LA move down to DE he is stong as heck with him Carriker and Bryant I think we would have a decent base for our front three


Only problem is none of those three are play makers and none of those three are players that the opposition will be worried about. Bryant played well but I still think he is a backup. Carriker was decent, at least he was in his natural position. But our D-Line needs a lot of work. It was extremely hard for us to get pressure on the QB and it all starts up front. If the D-Line is bad then it hurts the LBs and CBs.

[elkabong82]

If he was in the Skins long term plans starting last offseason, then they would have given him a higher tender and there wold have been talks about negotiatinan extension. This isn't simply because of offseason workouts, it's because the team doesn't believe he fits the scheme well enough. I personally don't think there'd be a drop off if we moved Zo to his spot.

[DRSmith]

Only problem is none of those three are play makers and none of those three are players that the opposition will be worried about. Bryant played well but I still think he is a backup. Carriker was decent, at least he was in his natural position. But our D-Line needs a lot of work. It was extremely hard for us to get pressure on the QB and it all starts up front. If the D-Line is bad then it hurts the LBs and CBs.

In a three four the front three occupy the line mostly it is the the others that blitz

They also have to be strong enough to keep gap control

[skinsfan4life7]

In a three four the front three occupy the line mostly it is the the others that blitz

They also have to be strong enough to keep gap control

Which is true, but I'm saying that I don't think they do that well enough either. They aren't occupying the blockers for others to blitz. When we do blitz they get picked up.

[onedrop]

I don't consider Rocky to be a failed pick.

It's not his fault that the base defense was changed. Same with Andre Carter or contrary to popular belief, Albert Haynesworth.

the difference being that Rocky and Andre didnt whine and cry and actually tried to perform in the 3/4

[skinzwiz]

The redskins are approaching the "draft best player available" strategy with all the holes that they have...and the holes they are creating.

[TheLongshot]

If he was in the Skins long term plans starting last offseason, then they would have given him a higher tender and there wold have been talks about negotiatinan extension. This isn't simply because of offseason workouts, it's because the team doesn't believe he fits the scheme well enough. I personally don't think there'd be a drop off if we moved Zo to his spot.

I don't think many players were in the long-term plans of this team until Shanahan had a year with them to evaluate them.

---------- Post added January-6th-2011 at 03:14 PM ----------


The redskins are approaching the "draft best player available" strategy with all the holes that they have...and the holes they are creating.

Rocky is a player they can afford to move on. You probably can put Reilly in that spot and we'd be fine. There is also Henson, who looked good before missing the season because of injury.

[DRSmith]

Which is true, but I'm saying that I don't think they do that well enough either. They aren't occupying the blockers for others to blitz. When we do blitz they get picked up.

Outside of Orakpo and Landry when healthy what blitzing threats did we have?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

One day, someone will put up an article on Rtoworld that's actually news.

Hail.

[ConnSKINS26]

The redskins are approaching the "draft best player available" strategy with all the holes that they have...and the holes they are creating.

We aren't creating a hole here. Rocky doesn't fit in this defense, and is part of the reason it was so bad. Riley will fill in just fine. Probably better, with more experience this offseason.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

We aren't creating a hole here. Rocky doesn't fit in this defense, and is part of the reason it was so bad. Riley will fill in just fine. Probably better, with more experience this offseason.

He's more slated for the middle than outside, but '09's 6th rounder who's been on IR this year Robert Henson excites me with his athleticism in this scheme.

Hail.

*Edit* And why I pointed out the difference in the same position as McIntosh I don't know, lol. LONG ass day

[Champskins]

I wouldnt be opposed to bringing in Aaron Maybin if the Bills release him (seems like a 100% chance right now). He could at least be a serviceable backup or we could cut him outright without big pay day for the 3rd year pro out of Linebacker U.

He was picked in the top 15 3 years ago and hasnt done it in Buffalo but maybe Spanos could turn him around. He'd be a perfect fit for OLB in the 3-4

[nightbird]

He was picked in the top 15 3 years ago and hasnt done it in Buffalo but maybe Spanos could turn him around. He'd be a perfect fit for OLB in the 3-4

Not only that, as I recall the Bills took Maybin EXACTLY one pick ahead of Orakpo.

Oy, Vinny didn't make all the terrible moves, lest we forget.

But I agree. Give him a looksee. He's local I think. Can't hurt. If he's not better than Rob Jackson or Chris Wilson, adios.

[Champskins]

Not only that, as I recall the Bills took Maybin EXACTLY one pick ahead of Orakpo.

Oy, Vinny didn't make all the terrible moves, lest we forget.

But I agree. Give him a looksee. He's local I think. Can't hurt. If he's not better than Rob Jackson or Chris Wilson, adios.

He's also younger than Andre Carter and very mobile

[KDawg]

Rocky was often a liability in coverage. He also made most of his tackles yards down field. He didnt fit the scheme. He's not a bad outside linebacker, and I'm sure he'll get interest in the free agent market. But this isn't a shocking move to me.

[RandyHolt]

Rocky was one of our turnover creators. In the 4-3. I liked his game, has many other turnovers that he just missed out on. We should have traded him a year ago if shanny is so bent about skipping optional team building activities. Or, just stayed 4-3. What a failure it was.

[mossomo]

Mike Shanahan is trying to run a tight ship.

Love this move. Sorry Rocky is the sacraficial lamb. But... Your draft position won't shield you. Mediocre don't cut it. Under perform and you're out. No more free rides and pay checks at Redskins Park. And you better show up with the TEAM for off season workouts, that's where the chemistry starts. In Shanny I trust!


Or, just stayed 4-3. What a failure it was.

Randy - We havent won post season in over a decade. It wasn't all the offense's fault. So in a sense, our 4-3 got us to the exact same place we find ourselves today.

[greenspandan]

Rocky didn't look good in this scheme. he missed tackles, couldn't cover, and overran plays. it's no big loss.

i said before the season started that this personnel would perform disastrously bad in the 3-4, and that we'd be one of the worst defenses in the league. i was proven correct.

that's all fine as long as we are rebuilding. but then we went for a huge "win TODAY" move and traded two draft picks for an old, big-name QB. nothing frustrates me more than when the redskins make moves that strategically undermine each other.

[I_Bleed_B&G]

Wow. I would have never guessed he had that many tackles. It always seemed like he was the one missing tackles.

[No_Pressure]

Great, the media mentions that we weren't pleased he missed off season workouts (which isn't why we're letting him go) and people on this thread at least play right into their hands and say **** SHANAHAN HE'S A CONTROL FREAK DOUCHEBAG.

The real reasons are:

A. Rocky McIntosh is horrible at blitzing which is a bad trait for an LB in the 3-4.
B. Rocky McIntosh is undersized- his listing at 239 on ESPN is optimistic. He is really more like 230-235 most likely.
C. Rocky McIntosh may have logged 110 total tackles, but his play was awful. He was routinely beat like a drum in coverage by backs and tight ends, and he was easily blocked out of a play, caught out of position, overpowered, or showing poor form and technique against the run in his ability to read/react to a play, take on a blocker, and make a form tackle to stop the opposing player.
D. We have younger linebackers on the roster who have performed well over the course of the season and unlike a lot of draft picks of years past, we didn't draft them to sit on the bench for their whole careers.
E. The options through FA, the draft, or promotion on our own roster will all be cheaper alternatives than retaining Rocky McIntosh.
F. Rocky McIntosh has played for 5 seasons now, and while he usually managed to stay fairly healthy over the course of the season, he has had major knee injuries and durability issues. He frequently spends the entire off-season recovering from a major surgery. His health concerns will eventually catch up with him and he will suffer a major injury in the early part of a season. I think it is wise to part with him rather than relying on him, especially when we have equal or better options on our own roster perhaps.


Randy - We havent won post season in over a decade. It wasn't all the offense's fault. So in a sense, our 4-3 got us to the exact same place we find ourselves today.


We beat the Tampa Bay Buccaneers on the road in 2005 during the wild card playoffs before falling short in Seattle mainly due to injuries to our entire offensive line (I believe that Cory Raymer started at C, Ray Brown started at RT, and someone else might have been out or playing quite injured.) as well as injuries to Mark Brunell's knees and throwing arm which rendered him inaccurate and less mobile, his two greatest traits prior. We have won in the playoffs in the past decade, though the sentiment is certainly not changed. We have not been successful if we have had 1 post season win in the course of a decade and 2 post season wins in almost 2 decades.

[The Full Monty]

Great, what a wonderful return on a 2nd round pick investment.

[BuryYourDuke]

Thank goodness. I've said for years that this guy had no business being drafted where he was, and that he was a bust. Glad Shanny has the guts to drop this guy.

[nightbird]

Great, what a wonderful return on a 2nd round pick investment.

Even worse. We traded TWO 2nd round picks to move into that slot, plus a 6th rounder.

I looked up how that shook out.

The 2nd rounder eventually went to Dallas, who took Anthony Fasano. Devin Hester and Maurice Jones-Drew were still on the board.

The 6th rounder was Drew Coleman, currently starting at safety for the Jets, who you may have heard have a good defense.

The other 2nd rounder was Eric Weddle (which ended up being the 37th pick overall, because of course we'd just had a crappy year -- shockingly -- again) was starting safety for the chargers, who had something like the number one defense in the league.

This is the kind of crap I've been steaming about for years. Stop making desperate panic moves and start building around a long-term plan.

[herb mul-key]

Official stats list Rocky McIntosh at 73 solo tackles and 37 assisted tackles for the 2010 season. That being said, he was not as good as this link suggests. I'd argue that, aside from Kareem Moore, he was the second most noticeable player on the defense when it came to guys doing an awful job of tackling this season. Too many guys just bounced off of him or eluded him without even slowing down for my liking and I really think he's hoping to get his one big paycheck this time around. Wish him well and be happy the team can upgrade the position with someone who is a better fit.

Totally agree w this

[skinsfan242]

Sorry if I missed you post if someone identified this. But this "fact" was taking from an article about someones opinions of what will happen next season. Just educated guesses. There are also articles saying we are going to keep him.

I would just wait and not worry about anything for now becuase no one knows jack.

[The Full Monty]

Even worse. We traded TWO 2nd round picks to move into that slot, plus a 6th rounder.

I looked up how that shook out.
The facts you uncovered are even more depressing... the horror...the horror...

[Bang]

He's always been rather average to me.
Next?

~Bang

[A Skinhead in Saints Land]

Hey, well at least we'll probably get a comp pick for losing him.

[bedlamVR]

Meh I dont think he was a waste . Wasn't this the same year Dallas pick up the Carp ... the crybaby fans on here are getting ridiculous . A 5 year starter is decent return on what should have been a late 2nd round pick . .. but it was the one failing of the Gibbs II years was if we liked someone in the draft we would over pay to get him . We could have got Cooley in the 4th for example but burnt a 2nd round pick to select him in the 3rd .

That said . Time to move on .

Good luck where ever Rocky

[REEGSKINS]

rocky was horrible. when someone broke off a long run most of the time he was the 1 who missed the tackle. sometimes he would hit the rb then not wrap him up. i have never seen an nfl lb tackle so bad. then he celebrates after making a routine tackle. i wont miss him.

[nightbird]

Meh I dont think he was a waste . Wasn't this the same year Dallas pick up the Carp ... the crybaby fans on here are getting ridiculous . A 5 year starter is decent return on what should have been a late 2nd round pick . .. but it was the one failing of the Gibbs II years was if we liked someone in the draft we would over pay to get him . We could have got Cooley in the 4th for example but burnt a 2nd round pick to select him in the 3rd .

That said . Time to move on .

Good luck where ever Rocky

Who's being a crybaby? People demanding an end to the same stupid practices that have led us to the bottom of the NFL?

Like you said, we keep overpaying because it's a cycle of stupidity where we allow these massive holes to appear on our roster, then freak out and trade picks away to fill the holes with mediocre talent, thereby allowing another gaping hole to open elsewhere.

If people seem like crybabies to you, some of these fans remind me of consumers in the old Soviet Union.

They were happy to get a pot of watery potato soup and some week-old rye bread every day, because that was all they knew.

So they took their rations happily, and they stood up and applauded the pronouncements from Pravda when they were told of record wheat production or some made-up scientific achievement.

Same deal here.

People are satisfied we traded away multiple picks for "a five-year starter" who we don't want anymore right as he's hitting his prime.

The same people will stand up and cheer when the press release comes out touting "Free Agent X Who Will Definitely Save Us This Time, So Thank Your Ashburn Commisars And Buy Tickets."

[authentic]

rocky was horrible. when someone broke off a long run most of the time he was the 1 who missed the tackle. sometimes he would hit the rb then not wrap him up. i have never seen an nfl lb tackle so bad. then he celebrates after making a routine tackle. i wont miss him.

Remember Warrick Holdman? I feel what you're saying, but he was pretty bad.

[skinfan2k]

awful in coverage, awful fit in the 3-4, bad tackler, and hes slow

[glongest]

Everybody wants to bash Rocky but other than London who is steady as she goes, what other linebacker on this team had a better year?

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Everybody wants to bash Rocky but other than London who is steady as she goes, what other linebacker on this team had a better year?

Orakpo?

[Dirt]

Great. Shanny wasn't f++king pleased and so we lose another decent player. I thought Rocky was solid and did his stuff. Never mind, we've got so many picks we can afford to throw away top picks from a few years back.

Way to go

Shanny knows better than you.

[MrJL]

I only noticed him when he was playing well

[glongest]

Orakpo?

Really. Now I will give you he may be our best player on defense, could make a case for Landry, but for a defense that is ranked 31st out of 32 teams that does not say much. Based on what he has done thus far, he may be the one of the most overrated and over hyped players in the league.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Really. Now I will give you he may be our best player on defense, could make a case for Landry, but for a defense that is ranked 31st out of 32 teams that does not say much. Based on what he has done thus far, he may be the one of the most overrated and over hyped players in the league.

Isn't he averaging about 9-10 sacks in his first two years on a team that recently doesn't get to the QB? He might be overrated by fans, but I believe he had a better season than Rocky.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

awful in coverage, awful fit in the 3-4, bad tackler, and hes slow

but aside from that, we should keep him. lol

[bowhunter]

Robert Henson should fill in nicely. I love his passion for the game

[glongest]

Isn't he averaging about 9-10 sacks in his first two years on a team that recently doesn't get to the QB? He might be overrated by fans, but I believe he had a better season than Rocky.


Well he is the pass rusher so he is suppose to be getting the sacks. But that was really not the point. The fact is that none of our linebackers strick fear into any of our opponents but it seems like Rocky gets an unfair share of being the one that sucks. Rak was likened to Lawrence Taylor when he came out. Sorry not even close at this point in his career. Hope he gets there but he will need a serious upgrade on the defensive line for that to happen.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Well he is the pass rusher so he is suppose to be getting the sacks. But that was really not the point. The fact is that none of our linebackers strick fear into any of our opponents but it seems like Rocky gets an unfair share of being the one that sucks. Rak was likened to Lawrence Taylor when he came out. Sorry not even close at this point in his career. Hope he gets there but he will need a serious upgrade on the defensive line for that to happen.

I'd agree that he hasn't peaked yet...but Rocky probably has and I still believe Orakpo is better. I'm not anti-Rocky, but I believe he's an average LB...that's all.

[glongest]

I'd agree that he hasn't peaked yet...but Rocky probably has and I still believe Orakpo is better. I'm not anti-Rocky, but I believe he's an average LB...that's all.

Thats a fair assessment. Just seems like people this board have been down on him this year. Dude was in on 110 tackles so he has been close to the action.

[ABSTRACT]

Some Redskins fans are just not used to sensible moves yet. Alot of people are simply scared of change. We don't need Rocky and there are better 3-4 fits behind him such as P. Riley and Robert Henson. It makes even more sense if we can get a pick for him. He does not fit the 3-4.

[honejc]

so much for homegrown talent.


shanny is a cocky arrogant bastard. period. cant deny that

[terrifNick21]

Just because Rocky was the guy we picked after moving up, doesn't mean he was the guy we moved up to get. ;)

D'Qwell Jackson!

And he's a free agent this year.

Am I right? :D

[Dukes and Skins]

D'Qwell Jackson!

And he's a free agent this year.

Am I right? :D

I believe you are right sir :)

[icbmayday]

The scheme def is not for him and he still put up numbers

[SkinsFTW]

D'Qwell Jackson!

And he's a free agent this year.

Am I right? :D

Now all we need is for Snyderatto to get it done and sign him to a 5 year 30M contract with a ginormous bonus!!

[CjSuAvE22]

Rocky was often a liability in coverage. He also made most of his tackles yards down field. He didnt fit the scheme. He's not a bad outside linebacker, and I'm sure he'll get interest in the free agent market. But this isn't a shocking move to me.

I agree 100 percent Rocky never hit anybody in the backfield for a loss, and during games in coverage it was easy to catch him not even covering anyone leaving the midle open for completion and him running in and making a tackle only after the opposing team had gotten a first down or 5-6 yards. 110 Tackles is a lot but none of them occured behind the line of scrimmage, hence we need a new linebacker. I would give Rocky a below average grade this year in the 3-4 and hes average at best in the 4-3.

[scruffylookin]

Rocky was literally invisible this past season and much of his career.

The best of Rocky was early in 2007 when it appeared he was about to break out but then nothing.

[Travdaskin]

D'Qwell Jackson!

And he's a free agent this year.

Am I right? :D
Did he even play last year? Don't remember hearing his name if not then why the hell would we want him?

[WALL-LE]

and shanny continues to **** up the defense...
i dont know what u guys like about him..

[Wyvern]

The redskins are approaching the "draft best player available" strategy with all the holes that they have...and the holes they are creating.So true! But you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.

Essentially we're going to a 3-4 and the entire F.O. is onboard with that. So we're going to have to let players go if they can't adapt to that system. Rocky's performance showed me that he couldn't adapt.

It's sad to see these high-level draft choices, and valuable free agents being let go, but this is a consequence of overhauling your coaches and systems. Hopefully we maintain more continuity in the future and find the players we need who can thrive in systems that will be around for a long time.

[Cskin]

It's Quite Simple:

Bad Knees + Poor Fit + No Off-season Participation = Cut

I've always thought he was overrated and a weak link... even in the 4-3. He misses way to many tackles, takes poor angles, and often gets caught up in the mush of blocking lanes. Watch all the big runs we gave up this year..... you'll see Rocky trailing the rusher and way out of position when the rusher reached the second level.

Let's find someone better suited for the 3-4 that plays with sound technique and fulfills his assignments.... plus someone on board with the coaching staff in terms of off-season work and preparation.

[Leonard Washington]

I like Rocky and I think he played well early this season but he was banged up for most of thus one. Hopefully Teddy Riley and Jim Henson can play.

[megared]

This is creating holes when it's unnecessary. We have needs at OLB, FS, NT, as well as several more places on offense.

Besides, no LBs in a 3-4 will look good with a subpar D line. We have no one up there capable of occupying blockers and allowing our LBs to make plays.

[KDawg]

and shanny continues to **** up the defense...
i dont know what u guys like about him..

This is as unspecific as it gets. How does this **** up the defense? How did you evaluate his coverage ability and his ability to shed blocks and his tackling? Were you content with his play recognition?


This is creating holes when it's unnecessary. We have needs at OLB, FS, NT, as well as several more places on offense.

Besides, no LBs in a 3-4 will look good with a subpar D line. We have no one up there capable of occupying blockers and allowing our LBs to make plays.

Anthony Bryant looked pretty good in there, and Carriker came on strong. We still need to upgrade our defensive line, but I think it's difficult to blame under coverage issues on the defensive line. We do have a ton of holes. Rocky struggles to get off of blocks and we have a few young inside backers that can play the spot. Perhaps we're looking at others in free agency and through the draft. This has always been a possibility. Those who are just understanding this with the rumors of Rocky's demise, I think missed some of his play specifically... (Please don't take this as me saying you didn't watch the games, or you're not a fan. If you don't watch a player specifically, then it's difficult to see much other than how many tackles the guy racked up, and he got a ton. It's not a knock on anyone. I promise).

[megared]

Anthony Bryant looked pretty good in there, and Carriker came on strong. We still need to upgrade our defensive line, but I think it's difficult to blame under coverage issues on the defensive line. We do have a ton of holes. Rocky struggles to get off of blocks and we have a few young inside backers that can play the spot. Perhaps we're looking at others in free agency and through the draft. This has always been a possibility. Those who are just understanding this with the rumors of Rocky's demise, I think missed some of his play specifically... (Please don't take this as me saying you didn't watch the games, or you're not a fan. If you don't watch a player specifically, then it's difficult to see much other than how many tackles the guy racked up, and he got a ton. It's not a knock on anyone. I promise).

There's a difference between looking good for a few games and sustaining that over the course of a season. If the coaches feel that Bryant's good enough to be a consistent starter, I hope he can fill that role at an average level at least.

We know that Rocky is professional, and performs...and now he's being jettisoned because he missed offseason workouts. If we're giving other players a pass to adjust to a 3-4, why not him? By no means would I say that he is as much of a weakness as other positions of need...so I hope he is at least offered a fair contract. Besides, Shanahan's history doesn't exactly install confidence in his ability to assemble a defense. With our luck, Rocky's the new AP, and goes to a new team and gets better...

[Champskins]

Aaron Maybin please.... he'll be a free agent soon, worth a look and at least a first round backup with good size and speed.. and sterioids

[GaryGreenMonk]

Has anybody noticed that we have 3 rumored LB'ers not returning..

Rocky, Carter and Blades all rumored to not be returning.

that leaves us with a LB core of Fletch (who will be 36), Alexander, Orakpo and Riley.

and on top of that Big Al will be gone, I can't imagine they will keep Kemoatu (he was awful), PD93 has got to be on the edge here, and with Carter gone we lose yet another DE.

We must be planning to massively address both the D Line and LB core in FA and the draft.

[Champskins]

Has anybody noticed that we have 3 rumored LB'ers not returning..

Rocky, Carter and Blades all rumored to not be returning.

that leaves us with a LB core of Fletch (who will be 36), Alexander, Orakpo and Riley.

and on top of that Big Al will be gone, I can't imagine they will keep Kemoatu (he was awful), PD93 has got to be on the edge here, and with Carter gone we lose yet another DE.

We must be planning to massively address both the D Line and LB core in FA and the draft.

Dont forget about Robert Henson who was a beast in preseason and Rob Jackson who has an eye for the outside speed rush

[LD0506]

Cue the wet-diaper overreactions on 3...2...1...

[GaryGreenMonk]

Dont forget about Robert Henson who was a beast in preseason and Rob Jackson who has an eye for the outside speed rush

depth maybe and potential groomers.. but starters? I don't think Riley is starter ready yet either..

IMO.. before FA and draft.. we'll have 3 legit starters on the D line and LBer core.... Orakpo, Fletch and Carriker..

With a some borderline projects in Alexander and Bryant. and then some depth rooks in Jackson, Henson and Riley.

We are going to have to draft a NFL ready DE or ILB.. and then pick up a good starter in FA at the other position. And we'll have to address depth at NT..

[Bantu]

Rocky has been decent to above average at times but has never been great at anything. His high draft status is the best highlight on his resume.

[Champskins]

depth maybe and potential groomers.. but starters? I don't think Riley is starter ready yet either..

IMO.. before FA and draft.. we'll have 3 legit starters on the D line and LBer core.... Orakpo, Fletch and Carriker..

With a some borderline projects in Alexander and Bryant. and then some depth rooks in Jackson, Henson and Riley.

We are going to have to draft a NFL ready DE or ILB.. and then pick up a good starter in FA at the other position. And we'll have to address depth at NT..

If we can get some good guys in FA or the draft then im all for it. Id love to have Quinn with our #10 pick to be on the outside opposite Orakpo... but if all else fails, we need to start guys like Riley and Henson and let them feel the first string fire and prove if they can do it or not. Its rebuilding and we are not going to win a championship anytime soon... the Skins always let potential starters sit on the bench until someone gets injured and when they come in, the majority of the time they excel. for example, Riley and Jackson

[Hitman21ST]

Great. Shanny wasn't f++king pleased and so we lose another decent player. I thought Rocky was solid and did his stuff. Never mind, we've got so many picks we can afford to throw away top picks from a few years back.

Way to go

Rocky was never going to be a playmaker in the defense. His tackle numbers are a little inflated because our D-line sucked and he was getting run at the whole time. He's a better fit as a 4-3 OLB than a 3-4 ILB. Just didn't look quite as capable of warding off linemen as you'd like in an ILB.

[Spitfire71]

David Harris would be a hell of a pickup if we could get him...don't see it happening, though.

This isn't without precedent. The exact same thing happened to Jonathan Vilma when Mangini took over as coach of the Jets and moved the Jets' D to a 3-4 back in '06. Vilma was 24 at the time and had been an absolute machine at the 4-3 MLB spot, and was coming off a season where he posted 169 tackles, good for the NFL lead. But Vilma, much like Rocky, was barely over 230, and wasn't exactly well suited to the 3-4, which favors slightly bigger MLBs that often have an interior OL running free at them. He ended up getting traded to the Saints, and has continued his 100+ tackle performances there. I'd like to see Robert Henson take over the spot if we don't draft or sign a FA. Henson may be young, but he just struck me as having a very high football IQ from what I saw of him in the preseason games. He was always near the football, and that's a good sign for a LB in any system.

[Houston2Taylor2Landry]

I've said this since he was drafted and I will continue to say it...Rocky Mcintosh is the Definition of Average.

[Darc Requiem]

I wouldnt be opposed to bringing in Aaron Maybin if the Bills release him (seems like a 100% chance right now). He could at least be a serviceable backup or we could cut him outright without big pay day for the 3rd year pro out of Linebacker U.

He was picked in the top 15 3 years ago and hasnt done it in Buffalo but maybe Spanos could turn him around. He'd be a perfect fit for OLB in the 3-4

Very good idea Champskins. Maybin could be a steal.

[Madison Redskin]

Well, Shanny will have gotten rid of Andre Carter, Albert Haynesworth, and Rocky McIntosh. Oh yeah, and he thought about trading Landry before last season. Shanny has done a bang-up job with our defensive scheme and personnel.

[Dukes and Skins]

Well, Shanny will have gotten rid of Andre Carter, Albert Haynesworth, and Rocky McIntosh. Oh yeah, and he thought about trading Landry before last season. Shanny has done a bang-up job with our defensive scheme and personnel.

I don't get your point. He contemplated Landry for about a day until he sat down and watched tape and realized just how talented a Safety he had on his hands and then said he wasn't going to deal him. I will concede Haynesworth but with Carter and McIntosh he was just doing holdovers until he could have another offseason to install the 3-4 personnel who fit the scheme right and McIntosh would be the stop gap to Riley and Carter to either Woodley through FA or an OLB in the draft

[Spitfire71]

Maybin is the definition of a tweener. He couldn't put on enough weight to stay at DE (he was about 250 at best, IIRC), and just couldn't adapt well to the LB position. Maybe he's a late bloomer, but I don't know if signing him would help us at all.

[TotalRecall]

Good. Rocky was awful in both pass coverage and run support. And he was a poor tackler, despite what the stats say.

[Madison Redskin]

I don't get your point. He contemplated Landry for about a day until he sat down and watched tape and realized just how talented a Safety he had on his hands and then said he wasn't going to deal him. I will concede Haynesworth but with Carter and McIntosh he was just doing holdovers until he could have another offseason to install the 3-4 personnel who fit the scheme right and McIntosh would be the stop gap to Riley and Carter to either Woodley through FA or an OLB in the draft

My point is I'm not surprised. Shanny took an above average defense and turned it into a piece of ****. He made a horrible decision to switch to the 3-4 without the personnel and he's about to get rid of the guys who would make it possible to switch back to the 4-3.

As much as it pains me, I think that our defense will continue to struggle in 2011. We have holes at NT, RDE, ILB, LOLB, CB, and FS. Moreover, it looks like Shanny will retain Haslett. So, I see us struggling again in 2011 and asking ourselves, "Why did we trade our top 10 4-3 defense for this?"

[SWFLSkins]

Good gravy I can't believe how many people fail to really watch the game. Read Murfs take and learn something. And personally I don't think Rocky is going to be that good in the 4-3 either.

---------- Post added January-8th-2011 at 10:38 AM ----------


My point is I'm not surprised. Shanny took an above average defense and turned it into a piece of ****. He made a horrible decision to switch to the 3-4 without the personnel and he's about to get rid of the guys who would make it possible to switch back to the 4-3.

As much as it pains me, I think that our defense will continue to struggle in 2011. We have holes at NT, RDE, ILB, LOLB, CB, and FS. Moreover, it looks like Shanny will retain Haslett. So, I see us struggling again in 2011 and asking ourselves, "Why did we trade our top 10 4-3 defense for this?"

Because our top five defense did not produce game changing T/O's , and you don't know that the D kept the games closer this year? The O and the ST's needs to pull it together and do their part for anyone to see what this D can bring to the game.

[WALL-LE]

This is as unspecific as it gets. How does this **** up the defense? How did you evaluate his coverage ability and his ability to shed blocks and his tackling? Were you content with his play recognition?



Anthony Bryant looked pretty good in there, and Carriker came on strong. We still need to upgrade our defensive line, but I think it's difficult to blame under coverage issues on the defensive line. We do have a ton of holes. Rocky struggles to get off of blocks and we have a few young inside backers that can play the spot. Perhaps we're looking at others in free agency and through the draft. This has always been a possibility. Those who are just understanding this with the rumors of Rocky's demise, I think missed some of his play specifically... (Please don't take this as me saying you didn't watch the games, or you're not a fan. If you don't watch a player specifically, then it's difficult to see much other than how many tackles the guy racked up, and he got a ton. It's not a knock on anyone. I promise).

how did he **** up the defense???
lets take a look
went from top 10 in defense to 31st..
hired a terrible D-coordinator and isnt willing to fire him,
he ****ed up the D in Denver at the end

[Madison Redskin]

Because our top five defense did not produce game changing T/O's , and you don't know that the D kept the games closer this year? The O and the ST's needs to pull it together and do their part for anyone to see what this D can bring to the game.

You mean the defense that was 31st in yards per game and 21st in points per game? Granted, the 2010 defense nabbed a whopping 3 more INTs and forced a whopping 2 more fumbles than the 2009 defense. However, the sack total went from 40 in 2009, to 29 in 2010.

The 2009 defense might not have been flashy and it might have been conservative, but it was good. The 2010 defense was woefully inconsistent and gave up FAR too many points and yards. I can't believe that I even need to argue that point.

[Burgold]

Nah, the 2009 defense wasn't good. It never forced punts, it never created a stop when the team needed it too and it always allowed the opponent to march up the field for the game winning or sealing score. That's why so many were upset with Blache.

That said, the 2010 defense was much worse... except for the last two weeks of the year which interestingly enough came against teams that desperately needed a win to make the playoffs. This D looked so much better playing with scrubs, castoffs, and second stringers than it did with its stars. That doesn't inspire a lot of confidence for next year though.

[Hitman21ST]

My point is I'm not surprised. Shanny took an above average defense and turned it into a piece of ****. He made a horrible decision to switch to the 3-4 without the personnel and he's about to get rid of the guys who would make it possible to switch back to the 4-3.

As much as it pains me, I think that our defense will continue to struggle in 2011. We have holes at NT, RDE, ILB, LOLB, CB, and FS. Moreover, it looks like Shanny will retain Haslett. So, I see us struggling again in 2011 and asking ourselves, "Why did we trade our top 10 4-3 defense for this?"

Because our "Top 10" defense didn't produce turnovers, nor get sacks. Nor could it get off the field when it really mattered. Our 3-4 has shown that it can get off the field, give our offense short fields, and even score touchdowns. D Hall's TDs were the first since 2006. And we did a hard switch to the 3-4 so when we filled all the holes, we would have some cornerstones who are used to the playcalling, blitz schemes, etc and can teach the new guys, rather than having everyone learn everything all at once.

---------- Post added January-8th-2011 at 11:45 AM ----------


Nah, the 2009 defense wasn't good. It never forced punts, it never created a stop when the team needed it too and it always allowed the opponent to march up the field for the game winning or sealing score. That's why so many were upset with Blache.

That said, the 2010 defense was much worse... except for the last two weeks of the year which interestingly enough came against teams that desperately needed a win to make the playoffs. This D looked so much better playing with scrubs, castoffs, and second stringers than it did with its stars. That doesn't inspire a lot of confidence for next year though.

Scrubs and castoffs who wanted to play, not stars who were prima donnas. Save for Haynesworth, our D wasn't really being prima donnas. It actually gives me hope for next year because all those players have shown what they can do, so if the new guys we bring in don't produce, we know we have valuable and good backups.

[LD0506]

Good gravy I can't believe how many people fail to really watch the game. Read Murfs take and learn something.

You should be able to believe it, you've been here long enough to know that's actually the rule, not the exception. :ols:

[SWFLSkins]

You mean the defense that was 31st in yards per game and 21st in points per game? Granted, the 2010 defense nabbed a whopping 3 more INTs and forced a whopping 2 more fumbles than the 2009 defense. However, the sack total went from 40 in 2009, to 29 in 2010.

The 2009 defense might not have been flashy and it might have been conservative, but it was good. The 2010 defense was woefully inconsistent and gave up FAR too many points and yards. I can't believe that I even need to argue that point.

Your not taking into account the players on this squad were all a year older and some new faces had to step in. 2010's 2nd best player, LL was out most of the season and the 2009 best player basically called it quits after getting his bonus failing to impact 2010. I mean you really think that the same personnel of 2009 in 2010 in the 4-3 would have turned this team into a contender? That is a point I could not argue with you if you believe it so, that D was already slipping and would have continued. Mike Shannahan is looking at league trends on Offense all the time and made the switch with more than the stats in mind and this year for that matter.

All I am saying is I want to see what the 3-4 can look like with some new faces this year added to the mix. I would also point out that the 2009 squad often gave up the game winning drive when the 2010 squad prevented it only to have the O fail to capitalize. This team is in desperate need of playmakers on D and Reed Doughty, Kareem Moore, Kemo, Big Al and Rocky McIntosh ain't them. The team needs two LBers to compliment Fletch and Orakpo. The line needs a 3-4 DE and may have one among the guys given the chance at the end of the year. I like Bryant at NT. The team needs a true FS and now, I happen to like our corners just the way they are.

Points avg. given up per game was 19th and that ties the Eagles for 2010,

Points avg. per game was 13th in 2009, so total defensive numbers can be mis-leading.

The point per game avg. to me is more important and yes 2009 wins that, but there is not the drop off you are eluding to. I want to see that number improve most importantly. They changed systems and had many of the wrong players to run it, but they still faired well in terms of giving up points.

---------- Post added January-8th-2011 at 12:45 PM ----------


Nah, the 2009 defense wasn't good. It never forced punts, it never created a stop when the team needed it too and it always allowed the opponent to march up the field for the game winning or sealing score. That's why so many were upset with Blache.

That said, the 2010 defense was much worse... except for the last two weeks of the year which interestingly enough came against teams that desperately needed a win to make the playoffs. This D looked so much better playing with scrubs, castoffs, and second stringers than it did with its stars. That doesn't inspire a lot of confidence for next year though.

I think just the oppposite, it starts them moving in the right direction for once. We need castoffs and scrubs to show the talent the level of effort required to succeed at this level.

---------- Post added January-8th-2011 at 12:54 PM ----------


You should be able to believe it, you've been here long enough to know that's actually the rule, not the exception. :ols:

Yeah-- right.

[wilbur58z]

McIntosh has done squat as a 'Skin, no matter the defense.

Literally, I can't think of a single big play he's made at LB. He's just a guy running around out there.

Anybody wanting to re-sign him is an idiot.

[SWFLSkins]

McIntosh has done squat as a 'Skin, no matter the defense.

Literally, I can't think of a single big play he's made at LB. He's just a guy running around out there.

Anybody wanting to re-sign him is an idiot.


Well that was short and to the point, good job and I agree.

[Skinz248]

Great. Shanny wasn't f++king pleased and so we lose another decent player. I thought Rocky was solid and did his stuff. Never mind, we've got so many picks we can afford to throw away top picks from a few years back.

Way to go

Did you watch the games? Rocky is not a 3-4 ILB.. I love Rocky but he just is not a fit for the 3-4.

[shk75]

I always thought Rocky was a solid player, not a star but a good player to have on your 53 man roster. He seemed like the player who just came to work everyday and did not complain or moan he just played football. I am sad to see him go and I, like many others, just don't get why we switched to 3-4.

[Madison Redskin]

Because our "Top 10" defense didn't produce turnovers, nor get sacks. Nor could it get off the field when it really mattered. Our 3-4 has shown that it can get off the field, give our offense short fields, and even score touchdowns. D Hall's TDs were the first since 2006.

Our "Top 10" defense didn't produce turnovers? Well, it only produced 2 fewer INTs and 3 fewer FFs than the 2010 defense (while allowing about 40+ fewer points).

Our "Top 10" defense didn't get sacks? Well, the 2009 defense produced 11 MORE sacks than the 2010 defense. And that 3-4 sure did wonders for Brian Orakpo's sack numbers, huh?

The 2009 defense couldn't get off the field? FYI - the 2009 defense let opponents' offenses stay on the field for an average of 31:24 per game. The 2010 defense let opponents' offenses stay on the field for an average of 32:54 per game. So, the 2009 defense was better at getting off the field, producing more sacks, and yielding FAR fewer yards and points.

But let's all pretend the 3-4 defense was great and the 4-3 defense was horrible. That will make it a lot easier to watch teams like the Eagles put up 50 points on our team and march up and down the field on our defense.

[Hitman21ST]

Wrong. The 2009 defense produced 11 MORE sacks than the 2010 defense. The 2009 defense let opponents' offenses stay on the field for an average of 31:24 per game. The 2010 defense let opponents' offenses stay on the field for an average of 32:54 per game. So, the 2009 defense was better at getting off the field, producing more sacks, and yielding FAR fewer yards and points.

Show me a key third or fourth down stop when it mattered from the 2009 defense. Show me when our offense gave us a lead in 2009 and the defense could be trusted to make that stop and get off the field. Give me a key turnover that put us in position to take control of or win a game. It's not necessarily about numbers, it's about timing.

[Reic]

Our "Top 10" defense didn't produce turnovers? Well, it only produced 2 fewer INTs and 3 fewer FFs than the 2010 defense (while allowing about 40+ fewer points).

Our "Top 10" defense didn't get sacks? Well, the 2009 defense produced 11 MORE sacks than the 2010 defense. And that 3-4 sure did wonders for Brian Orakpo's sack numbers, huh?

The 2009 defense couldn't get off the field? FYI - the 2009 defense let opponents' offenses stay on the field for an average of 31:24 per game. The 2010 defense let opponents' offenses stay on the field for an average of 32:54 per game. So, the 2009 defense was better at getting off the field, producing more sacks, and yielding FAR fewer yards and points.

But let's all pretend the 3-4 defense was great and the 4-3 defense was horrible. That will make it a lot easier to watch teams like the Eagles put up 50 points on our team and march up and down the field on our defense.

And we won 4 games last year. If I was on the ouside lookin in I would have said "**** it, lets shake things up" too.

[NewCliche21]

Show me a key third or fourth down stop when it mattered from the 2009 defense. Show me when our offense gave us a lead in 2009 and the defense could be trusted to make that stop and get off the field. Give me a key turnover that put us in position to take control of or win a game. It's not necessarily about numbers, it's about timing.

Don't bother. Anyone who thinks that the 2009 defense was anything but horrifyingly awful didn't watch the season. It's like arguing with a sixteen-year-old girl that Justin Bieber makes terrible music.

[Hitman21ST]

But let's all pretend the 3-4 defense was great and the 4-3 defense was horrible. That will make it a lot easier to watch teams like the Eagles put up 50 points on our team and march up and down the field on our defense.

Hell, the Patriots put up 52 on our 4-3 "top 10" defense a couple years back, I guess we should have ditched that defense back then.

The Pats also put up 45 on the Jets this year, should they ditch their defense?

---------- Post added January-8th-2011 at 02:46 PM ----------


Don't bother. Anyone who thinks that the 2009 defense was anything but horrifyingly awful didn't watch the season. It's like arguing with a sixteen-year-old girl that Justin Bieber makes terrible music.

My wife just tried to call me over to watch a Bieber music video with my six-year-old. It's starting already :doh:

[Park City Skins]

Don't bother. Anyone who thinks that the 2009 defense was anything but horrifyingly awful didn't watch the season. It's like arguing with a sixteen-year-old girl that Justin Bieber makes terrible music.

Or,gasp,they saw things a little differently. How about not responding like that very same 16 year old before keeping that in mind. I am not saying that I believe that the 2009 defense was anything either way,but allowing for the fact that people see things differently and that's okay.

[Mr. Sinister]

Don't bother. Anyone who thinks that the 2009 defense was anything but horrifyingly awful didn't watch the season. It's like arguing with a sixteen-year-old girl that Justin Bieber makes terrible music.

While I don't agree that we had a great defense in 2009, I definnitely wouldn't describe them as " horrifyingly awful ". i would definitely use that to describe this year's defense though.

[skinfan2k]

you guys are kidding yourselves if you thought this 4-3 defense was ever gonna win the superbowl..

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Because our "Top 10" defense didn't produce turnovers, nor get sacks.

I agree with you about the turnovers but as for sacks.........

2009: 40 sacks.
2010: 29 sacks.

---------- Post added January-8th-2011 at 08:08 PM ----------


you guys are kidding yourselves if you thought this 4-3 defense was ever gonna win the superbowl..

The 4-3 defense was never the problem. The man (Greg Blache) implementing it was the problem.

Blatche was far too conservative but that had nothing to do with the 4-3 as a whole.

[NewCliche21]

Or,gasp,they saw things a little differently. How about not responding like that very same 16 year old before keeping that in mind. I am not saying that I believe that the 2009 defense was anything either way,but allowing for the fact that people see things differently and that's okay.

There is a world of difference between "seeing things differently" and seeing things that aren't there. That defense lost to how many straight winless teams? How many games in the easiest schedule in NFL history? Made how many big plays? Yes, they got sacks, and that was great, but you couldn't depend on them for anything. If the above quoted had watched the games, then he would see that.

It's not an argument.


While I don't agree that we had a great defense in 2009, I definnitely wouldn't describe them as " horrifyingly awful ". i would definitely use that to describe this year's defense though.

Blache was the worst thing to ever happen to this team. We couldn't do a damn thing on defense and nobody was scared of us. Top ten was in numbers only, and if you depend on numbers alone for an argument about the play of an entire defense, then that's not going to fly.

[ChillSkinzFan84]

Let me break this down so you people will understand it. Both the 4-3 and the 3-4 are good defenses to run. You just need the right personnel and you need to be aggressive to get the most production out of both. We dont have the personnel right now but when we get it the 3-4 will be fine. Just like the 4-3 was fine for for years. The only problem with the 4-3 under Blache was that he was conservative and he moved our best DE to LB (which was dumb as he!l) and he didnt let Big Al loose to do his thing.

Nobody talks about this but I will. Blache told the dline to basically read and react instead of rushing up field and making plays. Which is why Haynesworth was upset and didnt like the 4-3 that we ran last year. Anyone with a brain knew that Haynesworth wouldnt like the 3-4( and im talking about before he made it know publicly) because he would be doing basically the same thing Blach had him doing which is just holding the block instead of being a force and causing disruption.

Which brings me to my next point( which is off topic) why doesnt anyone mention that Big Al was RIGHT for not liking his role in either defense. Now I dont like the way he went about it and handled everything but he was right to be upset about his role both years here. Why in the he!! would you sign the most athletic and the most disrupting dlineman in the game to a $100 million dollar contract and then ask him to NOT be DISRUPTIVE? That makes no sense at all, thats what he does best so yea he should of been upset about it.

Thats like having Michael Jordan or Allen Iverson and saying " I know your a great scorer and thats what you do best but I just want you to pass the ball and get assist for most of the game" thats retarded you dont take away what the man does best. That HURTS your team... not help it.

Not to mention we did the same thing with Orakpo. It was dumb to make him a LB when we all know he is best with his hand in the dirt. So yea we didnt get the best results out of the 4-3 last year but we also didnt use it and our players to the best of their abilities and to our advantage.

So to sum it up if we had run an aggressive attacking style of the 4-3 it would of been great because we have the talent and personnel to fit that type of system. If we had the players to fit a 3-4 that would have also been great because it is an affective defense when run properly, we just dont have the players to fit it right now. So basically the last two years we have been ***** backwords and have the results to prove it.

[Hitman21ST]

I agree with you about the turnovers but as for sacks.........

2009: 40 sacks.
2010: 29 sacks.

I was more referring to overall than just specifically last year.

We had 24 in 2008.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

I was more referring to overall than just specifically last year.

We had 24 in 2008.
That's true....but that was before we had Brian and Albert.

[NewCliche21]

That's true....but that was before we had Brian and Albert.

Remember, Albert wasn't in for more than half of Orakpo's sacks.

[ChillSkinzFan84]

I agree with you about the turnovers but as for sacks.........

2009: 40 sacks.
2010: 29 sacks.

---------- Post added January-8th-2011 at 08:08 PM ----------



The 4-3 defense was never the problem. The man (Greg Blache) implementing it was the problem.

Blatche was far too conservative but that had nothing to do with the 4-3 as a whole.

Exactly

[NewCliche21]

The 4-3 defense was never the problem. The man (Greg Blache) implementing it was the problem.

Blatche was far too conservative but that had nothing to do with the 4-3 as a whole.

I wouldn't even refer to that piece of trash as a man. He's a quitter and a whiner and he was absolutely awful. That "top ten" defense could have been a really legitimate defense if we had a real coach that year.

---------- Post added January-8th-2011 at 03:29 PM ----------

Again for those who think that a top ten defense really means something: The New Orleans defense did wonders for the team in the Super Bowl, including the nail-in-the-coffin pick six. What were they ranked? Twenty-fifth. Which would you rather have? Our defense or the Saints'?

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Let me break this down so you people will understand it. Both the 4-3 and the 3-4 are good defenses to run. You just need the right personnel and you need to be aggressive to get the most production out of both. We dont have the personnel right now but when we get it the 3-4 will be fine. Just like the 4-3 was fine for for years. The only problem with the 4-3 under Blache was that he was conservative and he moved our best DE to LB (which was dumb as he!l) and he didnt let Big Al loose to do his thing.

Nobody talks about this but I will. Blache told the dline to basically read and react instead of rushing up field and making plays. Which is why Haynesworth was upset and didnt like the 4-3 that we ran last year. Anyone with a brain knew that Haynesworth wouldnt like the 3-4( and im talking about before he made it know publicly) because he would be doing basically the same thing Blach had him doing which is just holding the block instead of being a force and causing disruption.

Which brings me to my next point( which is off topic) why doesnt anyone mention that Big Al was RIGHT for not liking his role in either defense. Now I dont like the way he went about it and handled everything but he was right to be upset about his role both years here. Why in the he!! would you sign the most athletic and the most disrupting dlineman in the game to a $100 million dollar contract and then ask him to NOT be DISRUPTIVE? That makes no sense at all, thats what he does best so yea he should of been upset about it.

Thats like having Michael Jordan or Allen Iverson and saying " I know your a great scorer and thats what you do best but I just want you to pass the ball and get assist for most of the game" thats retarded you dont take away what the man does best. That HURTS your team... not help it.

+1+1+1+1+1

[Hitman21ST]

FWIW, even with Gregg Williams as our DC in 2006, we were dead last in the league with 19 Sacks. That's why we drafted Landry, to give us a better defensive backfield so receivers wouldn't get open so quickly so we could get more coverage sacks.

[mike tatertot]

rocky was half way decent period...

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

FWIW, even with Gregg Williams as our DC in 2006, we were dead last in the league with 19 Sacks. That's why we drafted Landry, to give us a better defensive backfield so receivers wouldn't get open so quickly so we could get more coverage sacks.
Honestly, we just didn't have any natural pass rushers then. :(

[Hitman21ST]

Honestly, we just didn't have any natural pass rushers then. :(

Didn't we have AC?

[NewCliche21]

Honestly, we just didn't have any natural pass rushers then. :(

Well, we had Arch Deluxe at strong safety, which was the biggest defensive bust of Gibbs II.

As for your PM, I agree that Haynesworth was misused, but his personality just doesn't work here. Can't wait until he's taking naps on the field somewhere else.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Didn't we have AC?
I forgot about him. :doh:

[Hitman21ST]

I forgot about him. :doh:

I think everyone forgot about the 2006 defense. The only bright spot was Sean Taylor.

[NewCliche21]

I think everyone forgot about the 2006 defense. The only player was Sean Taylor.

Fixed that for you.

[Hitman21ST]

Fixed that for you.

He was our only probowler that year wasn't he? That was the year he laid out Moorman, right?

[cphil006]

He's talented... I'm still not sold on the 3-4, but we'll give it time. Vinny is gone, so there will be more hope this time.

[NewCliche21]

He was our only probowler that year wasn't he? That was the year he laid out Moorman, right?

Yep. Every other player on that defense was garbage.

[WALL-LE]

lol at tryon with the pick

[NewCliche21]

lol at tryon with the pick

LOL@posting in the wrong thread. :)

[WALL-LE]

LOL@posting in the wrong thread. :)

couldnt be bothered to look for one to put it in.

[ConnSKINS26]

couldnt be bothered to look for one to put it in.

At least you're honest :ols:

[mi6]

Rock is an average LB. We need to seriously upgrade at this position. I would like someone like Ray Lewis -- that caliber/motor LB to fill in Rocky's shoes.

[WALL-LE]

Rock is an average LB. We need to seriously upgrade at this position. I would like someone like Ray Lewis -- that caliber/motor LB to fill in Rocky's shoes.

u would like someone like ray lewis????
pretty sure so would every ****ing team in the NFL