NFP: Potential cracks in relationship between Snyder and Shanahan / Allen

[Andre The Giant]

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFP-Sunday-Blitz-2727.html

There appear to be some cracks in the relationship between Redskins owner Dan Snyder and head coach Mike Shanahan and general manager Bruce Allen, according to those familiar with the goings on at Redskins Park. And that might mean Shanahan and Allen better win in 2011 if they want to be around in 2012.

[THUNDERDOME]

Speculation.......thats all it is.....

[SMOSS89]

I was going to start a thread talking about something like this, but figured I'd sound too speculatory.

Fact of the matter is, if Snyder fires Shanahan and Bruce Allen after 2 seasons, it's all over.

[jflow78]

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFP-Sunday-Blitz-2727.html

There appear to be some cracks in the relationship between Redskins owner Dan Snyder and head coach Mike Shanahan and general manager Bruce Allen, according to those familiar with the goings on at Redskins Park. And that might mean Shanahan and Allen better win in 2011 if they want to be around in 2012.

Sounds like a Vinny Cerrato quote, since he's familiar with the "goings on at Redskins Park" and all. There's no proof, so I'd say it's BS.

[aREDSKIN]

Given the performance of Shanny et al this year do you blame Snyder?? Accountability it's a wonderful thing. Shanny could possibly care less because he'd be paid anyways.

[Hitman21ST]

Wow...not even speculating on the speculation. Just saying "there might be."

This just in, there might be something going on somewhere, according to someone.

[Hubbs]

Backed up by... absolutely nothing.

Well, I'm convinced.

[Jumbo]

Of course, few are in a position to know for sure whether such is the case, or close to the case, or not at all the case, for sure. But of those that could claim such a sureness on the matter, Dan Pompei would be farther down the list than most knowledgeable ES posters. :)

I'll submit that while Daniel Snyder may have opinions that include conflicting and challenging judgments (as do many fans and pundits) to every move our new FO has chosen, he's still committed to let them have their way for more than two years and stay out of micro-managing or even "managing" per se. :)

The sports media talking-head cadre is little more than a clown circus these days when not commenting on actual on-the-field performances, which a few of them are still able to do semi-competently.

[jflow78]

Wow...not even speculating on the speculation. Just saying "there might be."

This just in, there might be something going on somewhere, according to someone.

....but are they familiar with the goings on of the incident? :ols: I'm just playin'.

[skinfan2k]

If this were even to be true and Synder gets rid of Shanny after this year, there goes any hope of a good coach coming into coach the skins for a while. We are the raiders of the east basically in terms of coaching

[SMOSS89]

I was fortunate to be in the locker room after the Giants game last week, my first time, so a lot of locker room protocols I wasn't used to.

One was seeing Dan Snyder walking around red faced and looking quite upset. He looked frustrated at the loss, the 6-10 season, yadda yadda. I thought briefly about whether or not there was a rift between him and Bruce and Mike, but I figure it's just plain old frustration after a frustrating game and frustrating season.

Nothing to see here, move along.

[stevemcqueen1]

I was going to start a thread talking about something like this, but figured I'd sound too speculatory.

Fact of the matter is, if Snyder fires Shanahan and Bruce Allen after 2 seasons, it's all over.

Agreed. I don't want to be apocalyptic. But if Snyder does this I will stop following this team until he either dies or sells it.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

I've thinking this for awhile
We can talk about this being another rebuild year all we want
But if we finish 3-13 or 3-15
Snyder will have an aneurysm and shanny will be out on his ass

In this day and age in the NFL, with teams retooling on the fly, Detroit esque records will not be accepted especially by impatient ppl like Snyder

That is my absolute worst fear

[Enter Apotheosis]

Agreed. I don't want to be apocalyptic. But if Snyder does this I will stop following this team until he either dies or sells it.

I might be right there with you. There will be a point at which I will be ready to bail on the Shanahan (and possibly Allen) experience if we continue to struggle... but if Snyder ever does something to demonstrate that level of impatience after all he's been through (not that I believe he will), it's going to be hard to continue to follow this team so closely.

[addicted]

I was going to start a thread talking about something like this, but figured I'd sound too speculatory.

Fact of the matter is, if Snyder fires Shanahan and Bruce Allen after 2 seasons, it's all over.

For those men it would be but the Redskins would still move forward. No player, coach, or GM is bigger then the team. If someone is just a fan of the team (I know your not) because of the people running it then we don't need them anyway.

[SMOSS89]

For those men it would be but the Redskins would still move forward. No player, coach, or GM is bigger then the team. If someone is just a fan of the team (I know your not) because of the people running it then we don't need them anyway.

For sure, but it will be a rather big indictment on the owner.

[tml6157]

If we have a worse record then 6-10 next year I can see something happening but being 7-9 or better next season shouldnt be that hard to accomplish IMO.

[Andre The Giant]

A few speculative thoughts...

- Right or wrong, Snyder will likely compare Shanahan with Gibbs, with who he had an extremely positive, collaborative experience. Shanahan does not seem like he'd communicate with Dan like Joe did.

- Snyder has mentioned in the past he didn't like it when coaches hired their buddies. I wonder what his opinion is of having Kyle as the OC, especially considering the rift with Donovan.

- Jay Glazer reported that Snyder was unhappy with the Donovan benching. Would this info (if accurate) really shock anyone on this board?

[SkinsTribeVA]

I was going to start a thread talking about something like this, but figured I'd sound too speculatory.

Fact of the matter is, if Snyder fires Shanahan and Bruce Allen after 2 seasons, it's all over.

For sure. That would make me legitimately consider abandoning this team for as long as Snyder still owns it. I don't think I'm alone either-- Snyder would be risking alienating a huge part of the fan base.

[styx491]

Cracks don't matter, there are always cracks between relationships of owners and head coaches, especially when teams aren't winning. The "new" Danny shouldn't let the cracks bother him though, IF they are there in the first place. The "old" Danny would have let this bother him and would have been pressured to act.

Speculation is fear mongering

[addicted]

For sure, but it will be a rather big indictment on the owner.

For sure. We knew that his meddling childish impatience has hurt this team long before these men joined. If he cans these guys next year then it will show he's learned nothing over the years but all signs point to him understanding his role better this season then in years past. A leopard doesn't change his spots often but boys can grow up and become men and I think he's done a fine job this year of being the owner we need him to be. There is no "news" here in this report but we need to monitor the situation closely. If he regresses then he's got a revolt on his hands and the fans will leave and kill his cash cow. I don't think he wants that to happen.

[charlton]

I was fortunate to be in the locker room after the Giants game last week, my first time, so a lot of locker room protocols I wasn't used to.

One was seeing Dan Snyder walking around red faced and looking quite upset. He looked frustrated at the loss, the 6-10 season, yadda yadda. I thought briefly about whether or not there was a rift between him and Bruce and Mike, but I figure it's just plain old frustration after a frustrating game and frustrating season.

Nothing to see here, move along.

Snyder should be red faced because the stench that is the Washington Redskins is a product of gross mishandling on his part since he bought the team over a decade ago.

It is an utter embarrassment that the Skins are now mentioned in the same breath as the Lions, Bills, Browns, Texans and Jags as the only teams to not win a division championship in the past decade.

[Bliz]

Lies I tell you. Scandalous lies.

Or at least, unsubstantiated speculation for the sole purpose of stirring up stuff.

Move along.

[veteranskinsfan]

It has to be frustrating for our owner to see how the Atlanta Falcons turned their fortunes around after Vick left. Likewise, its frustrating for fans to see the Ravens in the playoffs and they are down the road from them. I am sure the owner is not happy about giving up two draft choices for McNabb and then Shanny benching McNabb. Its hard to find good quarterbacks and good coaches. All the playoff teams have good coaches and good quarterbacks and the .500 teams stay home in search of their future quarterbacks. The Redskins have not had a good General Manager since Bobby Bethard and think how long that has been now since he was in D.C.

[Andre The Giant]

The Redskins have not had a good General Manager since Bobby Bethard and think how long that has been now since he was in D.C.

Agreed ... but these guys do need the time to execute their long-term plan.

[PlayAction]

I don't care what the Skins record is next year. If Snyder fires Shanahan the Skins will never be good again until he sells the team. I'll be done as a Skins fan because it sure as heck is not the same franchise as it was when I became a fan.

[Destino]

I doubt there are something that could accurately be called "cracks" but the truth is they screwed up. The McNabb trade is a disaster. The switch to the 3-4 FAILED and let's not forget something friends that money haynesworth is due is Redskin (read snyder) money. If you're going to destroy the relationship with the million dollar man whatever you try HAD BETTER WORK. Otherwise you cost the owner a great deal of money and delivered nothing but failure in return. Speaking of which the defense failed entirely.

So somewhere in all of that there is cause for Snyder to hold a little meeting and say "this or anything like this can never happen again, am I making myself clear?"

[addicted]

I doubt there are something that could accurately be called "cracks" but the truth is they screwed up. The McNabb trade is a disaster. The switch to the 3-4 FAILED and let's not forget something friends that money haynesworth is due is Redskin (read snyder) money. If you're going to destroy the relationship with the million dollar man whatever you try HAD BETTER WORK. Otherwise you cost the owner a great deal of money and delivered nothing but failure in return. Speaking of which the defense failed entirely.

So somewhere in all of that there is cause for Snyder to hold a little meeting and say "this or anything like this can never happen again, am I making myself clear?"

I disagree with this fundamentally because of who that little man saying that would be knowing his history. If it were another owner sure your absolutely correct 100 times over here with what your saying but in my own mind Snyder doesn't get the luxury of having this meeting with these men this year like that. Snyder and his meddling ways is why this teams had so many coaches since he joined and found no success in the time he's been in charge. The fans know this and aren't ready to see him step up and put an ultimatum on the people he hired after one season. In fact Snyders screwed up so horribly that the only way I see possible where he can not be the evil villain here is to wait until the fans revolt on the coaches and GM themselves and then give into the voice of the people. If he did that like he did it with firing Zorn then he's a good guy but if he does that when the fans don't want it years of hatred flood back on us all.

Snyder owns the team but the Redskins live in the hearts of all of us. The more this team becomes Snyders playground to do whatever whenever he wants to the more people are going to turn on him. This teams been about Snyder for Snyder for years now and we know that doesn't work and the fans are exhausted because of this. There is no denying he has the right to do what your saying but after only a single year to threaten Shanahan is a huge mistake...He is not a guy you do that with. If the fans hear about it the hatred coming his way will be in new levels not yet seen before. Now is not the time for this ultimatum. The fans are OK with the season and are pleased with Snyder being no where near anything fudging it up like he always does. If you want to set this off in the wrong direction have some reports come out now saying Snyder threatened Bruce Allen or Shanny and I bet that would light the fire that burns this to the ground.

[thesubmittedone]

Sources are obviously the Washington Post crowd, and no they aren't close to the going ons at Redskins Park, lol.

[mcgraw238]

It has to be frustrating for our owner to see how the Atlanta Falcons turned their fortunes around after Vick left. Likewise, its frustrating for fans to see the Ravens in the playoffs and they are down the road from them. I am sure the owner is not happy about giving up two draft choices for McNabb and then Shanny benching McNabb. Its hard to find good quarterbacks and good coaches. All the playoff teams have good coaches and good quarterbacks and the .500 teams stay home in search of their future quarterbacks. The Redskins have not had a good General Manager since Bobby Bethard and think how long that has been now since he was in D.C.

I could care less about Synder's posture on trading away draft choices as he mastered the practise of pissing away draft choices during his tenure as owner. I hope this report (and Glazer's) is unfounded but I have a hard time believing the leopard has changed his spots. Accountability has always applied except when it comes to the man behind the curtain. I expect to see more reports like this (that I'm sure will be shot down as unfounded) next season as well. Sadly, I'm note seeing the path that will lead to this team competing for the division with all the holes on the roster.

---------- Post added January-9th-2011 at 10:52 PM ----------


I doubt there are something that could accurately be called "cracks" but the truth is they screwed up. The McNabb trade is a disaster. The switch to the 3-4 FAILED and let's not forget something friends that money haynesworth is due is Redskin (read snyder) money. If you're going to destroy the relationship with the million dollar man whatever you try HAD BETTER WORK. Otherwise you cost the owner a great deal of money and delivered nothing but failure in return. Speaking of which the defense failed entirely.

So somewhere in all of that there is cause for Snyder to hold a little meeting and say "this or anything like this can never happen again, am I making myself clear?"

The Haynesworth money was wasted the moment Synder shoved it into his pocket. That one is on him and always will be. I'll give you the McNabb trade being a disaster but I also give props to Shanny for pulling the plug and moving on. I also agree that such a mistake must not happen again.

[HigSkin]

Oh really? A couple of December excerpts from WaPo articles.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/daniel-m-snyder/dan-snyder-says-he-supports-mi.html

Snyder repeatedly said Shanahan "speaks for all of us."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2010/12/shanahan_on_his_relationship_w.html

"He's (Snyder) always been great with me, been very supportive, so if there were any comments he made, that was off the cuff to somebody else," Shanahan said. "I don't know about it. But he's always told me to do things the way that you think they should be done, and he's got the confidence in me to do it the right way, and he wants to build a football team the right way and an organization the right way. He knows there are gonna be some tough decisions, and to make the best decisions I could possibly make."

[poopoobigelow]

shanahan speaks of player accountability, and he is, in turn, accountable to his employer... the fact is, we were an embarrassment on many levels... would you expect any employer to be happy with a poor performance, loss of millions of dollars in payroll, and several media gaffes?... regardless of the profession, any boss is going to be upset...

now, what makes good employers good is their ability to have a long-term vision and an understanding that to build something great, there will be failures as well as successes... this is where snyder has shown time and time again that he is a poor owner...

now, is shanahan the long-term answer at HC? i say no, but i change this off-season will only hurt the franchise...

[GoSkins561]

I was going to start a thread talking about something like this, but figured I'd sound too speculatory.

Fact of the matter is, if Snyder fires Shanahan and Bruce Allen after 2 seasons, it's all over.

Pretty much, it will be the last straw for me.

[skinsfan_1215]

Pretty much, it will be the last straw for me.

Yep. I'll be out until Snyder dies or sell the team.

[Section106]

The main reason this is BS is that Allen is going to save Snyder millions each year on player payroll. And Allen isn't firing Shanahan, period.

[charles mannley]

I doubt there are something that could accurately be called "cracks" but the truth is they screwed up. The McNabb trade is a disaster. The switch to the 3-4 FAILED and let's not forget something friends that money haynesworth is due is Redskin (read snyder) money. If you're going to destroy the relationship with the million dollar man whatever you try HAD BETTER WORK. Otherwise you cost the owner a great deal of money and delivered nothing but failure in return. Speaking of which the defense failed entirely.

So somewhere in all of that there is cause for Snyder to hold a little meeting and say "this or anything like this can never happen again, am I making myself clear?"
I have a hard time even responding to people with your limited viewpoint. To say our defense failed entirely is ignorant. We had the 11th ranked scoring defense and if it wasn't for that MNF against the eagles we would ranked higher, and the whole concept of the defense was to be a bend but don't break. When teams got in the redzone they didn't score touchdowns. It was created to increase turnovers and it worked. We had more turnovers.

Shanahans trying to change the culture from players that are here only because Snyder made them an offer they couldn't refuse and they don't care if we win or lose, to players that want to play here and want to win. If we would have had that mentality 2 years ago we wouldn't have had Haynesworth to deal with.

[P'Oed]

And there's a potential crack in the face of a young woman because of Fred Davis. The Redskins are the Jersey Shore of the NFL.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

I have a hard time even responding to people with your limited viewpoint. To say our defense failed entirely is ignorant. We had the 11th ranked scoring defense and if it wasn't for that MNF against the eagles we would ranked higher, and the whole concept of the defense was to be a bend but don't break. When teams got in the redzone they didn't score touchdowns. It was created to increase turnovers and it worked. We had more turnovers.

Shanahans trying to change the culture from players that are here only because Snyder made them an offer they couldn't refuse and they don't care if we win or lose, to players that want to play here and want to win. If we would have had that mentality 2 years ago we wouldn't have had Haynesworth to deal with.


I hear that players who don't care cuz they get paid argument alot but who on the roster fit that bill besides haynesworth?

I'm not trying to be a dick, it's a legit question

[ArmchairRedskin]

Winning cures all ills. I suspect until that happens, we'll hear these stupid rumblings.

[WALL-LE]

if we dont win next year the WILL both be gone..
no question about it

[GoDeep81]

. If he regresses then he's got a revolt on his hands .

Same will be said for Shanahan.. He's made some blunders in year one.. He'd better show that he still knows what he's doing this offseason and next season, or I dont think Snyder will be alone in wanting him gone..

[Destino]

I disagree with this fundamentally because of who that little man saying that would be knowing his history. If it were another owner sure your absolutely correct 100 times over here with what your saying but in my own mind Snyder doesn't get the luxury of having this meeting with these men this year like that. Snyder and his meddling ways is why this teams had so many coaches since he joined and found no success in the time he's been in charge. The fans know this and aren't ready to see him step up and put an ultimatum on the people he hired after one season. In fact Snyders screwed up so horribly that the only way I see possible where he can not be the evil villain here is to wait until the fans revolt on the coaches and GM themselves and then give into the voice of the people. If he did that like he did it with firing Zorn then he's a good guy but if he does that when the fans don't want it years of hatred flood back on us all.
I'm having a hard time with your logic.

1 - You acknowledge that Snyder is a meddling owner but you think he wouldn't do this. Your reason is the fans...

2 - Snyder has mastered the art of taking money from schmucks via the "big name coach hire". Every time the fans have looked like they are going to revolt he hires a big name and every body on this forum is sold on a non-existent plan from day one.



Snyder owns the team but the Redskins live in the hearts of all of us. The more this team becomes Snyders playground to do whatever whenever he wants to the more people are going to turn on him. This teams been about Snyder for Snyder for years now and we know that doesn't work and the fans are exhausted because of this. There is no denying he has the right to do what your saying but after only a single year to threaten Shanahan is a huge mistake...He is not a guy you do that with. If the fans hear about it the hatred coming his way will be in new levels not yet seen before. Now is not the time for this ultimatum. The fans are OK with the season and are pleased with Snyder being no where near anything fudging it up like he always does. If you want to set this off in the wrong direction have some reports come out now saying Snyder threatened Bruce Allen or Shanny and I bet that would light the fire that burns this to the ground.This is just plain fantasy. The fans of the skins are easily manipulated and have been for more than a decade at this point. The only time the fans freaked out is when Zorn failed, the one time Snyder didn't hire a big name coach. As long as Snyder can hire someone the fans believe can fix this disaster they'll continue to attend games and buy redskins gear.

[charles mannley]

I hear that players who don't care cuz they get paid argument alot but who on the roster fit that bill besides haynesworth?

I'm not trying to be a dick, it's a legit question

I beleive that was the reason wee had the offseason we had. None of the players that visited were one stop players. They all had the freedom to look at other teams(porter and clifton). I know there were guys like Parker and LJ, but they lacked the desire due to wear and tear, but even with all the hype Peppers got that the media said we were going after him and were going to offer him a huge check. We stayed away.

Look at years past compared to the one year we've had with Shanahan. Other than McNabb, which I thought was a good trade until I saw him play this season, we didn't really sign any high priced FA. I just question McNabbs heart and coachability.

[Thirtyfive2seven]

Snyder will have an aneurysmTease

[Destino]

I have a hard time even responding to people with your limited viewpoint.
Then don't. I don't need to be talked down to by someone that thinks everything is great when the evidence clearly shows different.


To say our defense failed entirely is ignorant. We had the 11th ranked scoring defense and if it wasn't for that MNF against the eagles we would ranked higher, and the whole concept of the defense was to be a bend but don't break. When teams got in the redzone they didn't score touchdowns. It was created to increase turnovers and it worked. We had more turnovers.
You know when you decide to talk down to me be sure to look at the screen closely. What I think you did is fail to click the little pts/g button twice, so you sorted it backwards showing the skins as the 11th ranked scoring defense. They gave up 23.6 point per game which is tied with the eagles for 21st, not 11th. They are 11th if you sort them from most to least... more points is bad for a defense FYI.

They were tied for 15th in turnovers with 27 BTW.


Shanahans trying to change the culture from players that are here only because Snyder made them an offer they couldn't refuse and they don't care if we win or lose, to players that want to play here and want to win. If we would have had that mentality 2 years ago we wouldn't have had Haynesworth to deal with.
I've heard that from every coach, I'll believe it when I see it.

[SkinsFTW]

Agreed. I don't want to be apocalyptic. But if Snyder does this I will stop following this team until he either dies or sells it.

Yeah, same here. I pretty much boycotted the team when he fired Schottenheimer, then didn't really watch much but did shake my head a lot when Spurrier was running his circus. Only Gibbs coming back caused me to get back into it again and then hiring the incompetent Zorn mainly because he'd be easier to get along with than G. Williams was just as huge a mistake as firing Schottenheimer. Even though I didn't like the Shanahan hiring if the owner can't even stick by his own decision to hire a 2 time SB winning coach and turn over the FO to him and Allen, then there is really no hope of this team ever winning anything with Snyder in charge. I'll officially just watch the NFL casually from that point on, kinda like a bandwagon Pukes fan. :D

[celticsalmon]

Shanahan's got to get rid of all the stoolies, "tattle tellers" and malcontents at Redskins Park-on and off the field. And the so called Sports "Journalists" have to start doing their jobs instead of tattle telling!

[Blue Collar Skins]

Seriously, just BS

[Califan007]

I disagree with this fundamentally because of who that little man saying that would be knowing his history. If it were another owner sure your absolutely correct 100 times over here with what your saying but in my own mind Snyder doesn't get the luxury of having this meeting with these men this year like that.
This is asinine thinking.

Having the "luxury" of holding a meeting like that is exactly what any good owner should possess...and it's not a luxury, it's a responsibility and a right. It doesn't mean that meeting must take place, but as fans we shouldn't look at it as a luxury or privilege for our owner to have...

A neutered owner is no better than a meddling one.

---------- Post added January-9th-2011 at 04:26 PM ----------

And, yes, this is an incredibly stupid rumor masquerading as source information. It's most likely just a regurgitation of some speculative article written 4 weeks ago or something...

[Maximus71]

Geezus.... It's been one year so far with a roster full of over paid talentless players that are 2nd string at best in other teams! Building something great takes time, not one or two years!

[ConnSKINS26]

I love, FINALLY, reading an "article" like this and seeing the first page of responses littered with posts like "pure speculation", "no sources", etc. We seem to have finally, as a community, come around to not putting stock into **** like this. We've caught on to the games the media tries to play with us, some faster than others of course, and are no longer fooled. Mostly.

Because even if this turns out to be true (which I doubt, at this time), it will STILL just be an article that threw some **** against the wall. And for once, some of it will have stuck. But I don't think that will happen here.

[SKIN4WAHOOZ]

Of course, few are in a position to know for sure whether such is the case, or close to the case, or not at all the case, for sure. But of those that could claim such a sureness on the matter, Dan Pompei would be farther down the list than most knowledgeable ES posters. :)

I'll submit that while Daniel Snyder may have opinions that include conflicting and challenging judgments (as do many fans and pundits) to every move our new FO has chosen, he's still committed to let them have their way for more than two years and stay out of micro-managing or even "managing" per se. :)

The sports media talking-head cadre is little more than a clown circus these days when not commenting on actual on-the-field performances, which a few of them are still able to do semi-competently.


couldnt have said it better myself!!

[ConnSKINS26]

I think at this point its pure speculation that he DOES let them have their way. Their is absolutely no proof of this.

Is there proof of him interfering?

[LetThePointsSoar]

The sports media talking-head cadre is little more than a clown circus these days when not commenting on actual on-the-field performances, which a few of them are still able to do semi-competently.

I'm severely tempted in making this my signature...quite possibly the best contsructed & truest sentence I've read on ES.

[Beans]

I was going to start a thread talking about something like this, but figured I'd sound too speculatory.

Fact of the matter is, if Snyder fires Shanahan and Bruce Allen after 2 seasons, it's all over.

What's over? :ols:

[Blue Collar Skins]

What's over? :ols: I think his fandom

[Hitman21ST]

What's over? :ols:

Any kind of support for the Redskins from the loyal fanbase.

[ATLredskin]

I hope Snyder fire his ass...the guy is overrated and past his prime. Maybe we can hire Russ Grimm, Chip Kelly, maybe even Rob Ryan. How we only win 2 more games when we replaced Campbell with McNabb and Zorn with Shanahan. We need to hire a real GM. Stop going for the big names and actually do your research. Look at the Falcons and how they hired the Patriots college scouting director for a GM and he is doing great. There has to be somebody associated with the Steelers, Ravens, or Colts that is out there to choose from for a real GM.

[scampbell1975]

Awesome, more baseless, senseless, and uninformed conjecture...my favorite kind.

[authentic]

I hope Snyder fire his ass...the guy is overrated and past his prime. Maybe we can hire Russ Grimm, Chip Kelly, maybe even Rob Ryan. How we only win 2 more games when we replaced Campbell with McNabb and Zorn with Shanahan. We need to hire a real GM. Stop going for the big names and actually do your research. Look at the Falcons and how they hired the Patriots college scouting director for a GM and he is doing great. There has to be somebody associated with the Steelers, Ravens, or Colts that is out there to choose from for a real GM.

yeah, lets go for a no-name up-and-coming assistant that isn't a retread. Like a player's coach, who's fun-having and won't hold the players accountable....WAIT.....:paranoid:

[TK]

Of course, few are in a position to know for sure whether such is the case, or close to the case, or not at all the case, for sure. But of those that could claim such a sureness on the matter, Dan Pompei would be farther down the list than most knowledgeable ES posters. :)

I'll submit that while Daniel Snyder may have opinions that include conflicting and challenging judgments (as do many fans and pundits) to every move our new FO has chosen, he's still committed to let them have their way for more than two years and stay out of micro-managing or even "managing" per se. :)

The sports media talking-head cadre is little more than a clown circus these days when not commenting on actual on-the-field performances, which a few of them are still able to do semi-competently.
Truth of the matter is it's called "I don't have any quotes, I have a deadline, & I need a story so I'll just throw out some garbage". :)

[SkinsHokieFan]

Yea, Shanny isn't getting fired anytime soon

If he is fired after next season Snyder will be on the hook for 21 million to Shanny

Along with the money he already wasted on AH.

The money tree at Redskins park is running out of money. This isn't the franchise from the early to middle part of the decade that was minting money

Club seat contracts have run out, renewals get lower and lower every year and the economy really hit hard with sponsorships and advertising.

Lets not forget the Six Flags epic fail and Johnny Rockets flopping and 980 getting its ass handed to it ratings wise by 106.7 the fan.

Dan can't afford to fire Shanny until after 4 years. He can't be on the hook for 21 million dollars

Th

[Shanny&Danny]

Of course Snyder is unhappy, the season has been an unmitigated disaster. Shanny brings in Haslett to run a 3-4 defense with 4-3 personnel, hires his son as OC, burns all bridges with Al while completely destroying his trade value, wastes 2 picks on McNabb whom he promptly benches. I wouldn't be too upset if Shanny got the axe to be honest.

[RAAZ227]

just another pick on the redskins! when will it stop!

[TK]

Dan can't afford to fire Shanny until after 4 years
Technically, that'd be not renewing his contract since he's got 4 years left on the current one. ;)

I wouldn't be surprised if AL had to buy out his contract ala Lavar if we can't get fair value for him.

[Hitman21ST]

Of course Snyder is unhappy, the season has been an unmitigated disaster. Shanny brings in Haslett to run a 3-4 defense with 4-3 personnel, hires his son as OC, burns all bridges with Al while completely destroying his trade value, wastes 2 picks on McNabb whom he promptly benches. I wouldn't be too upset if Shanny got the axe to be honest.

As opposed to last year, which was a great success?

[SkinsFTW]

75% of all of you saying that Shanahan has been a disaster will be picking us to make it to the playoffs next year so I don't really understand all the hate now. It's like 90% of football fans suffer from bipolar disorder.

The Eagles board is really very entertaining right now and its sad that it reminds me of this board after a loss, as if we were really the better team going in to most games, lol.

[boobiemiles]

The number one rule is do not let the owner look bad. Mike has a history of rubbing owners the wrong way. If Mike doesn't win next year he is gone. Mike won a Super Bowl 13 years ago. We have a fan base begging for a youth movement with an aging coach. Something has to give. And for the record I never like Mike. I think he sucks.

[cphil006]

Someone's OPINION that Shanny will be gone next season if we don't win big based on SPECULATION of a troubled relationship...

It's a crap-shoot. If we go 6-10 again or worse, he'd have to show something, somehow show we are improving in order to stay.

NO ONE has any idea what we will be next season.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

I just think two straight **** seasons (no matter if us fans agree or not) is not acceptable anymore

Mangini, mcdaniels etc

In today's NFL, the "we have to suck for 3 seasons to get competitive) theory is dead

Teams retool on the fly all over the league and I'm sure that's what Snyder expects

And I'm petrified that he will knee jerk after this year and eff us for the rest of my life

Whether this article is bs or not, we know what Dan is and has always been

---------- Post added January-9th-2011 at 11:05 PM ----------

The Bucs were bad for just one year and now they almost make the playoffs

The chiefs were crappy but herm Edwards was not gonna be given 3-4 years to fix them
They bring in Haley and are in the playoffs in his second year

As much as I hate to admit it, Shanny is gonna need a big year in 2011

[grantarchy]

75% of all of you saying that Shanahan has been a disaster will be picking us to make it to the playoffs next year so I don't really understand all the hate now.

Lol, that is so true. I can't really understand how anyone might have been under the assumption that we would come anywhere close to challenging for the division, much less the playoffs, but I guess some people did and to them somehow this season is a massive disappointment. I hope that these are all just rumors, but if not I'm also one of the ones who will be done until Snyder is out of the equation. It will prove to me once and for all that we'll never be able to build a truly competitive team under his watch.

[ChillSkinzFan84]

I don't think that its that fans thought that we would be contenders this year its that we expected to be going in some sort of direction. By the end of the year we should of been getting better with a promising future. And people expected to look like a legit top tier franchise now that"football people" are in charge running things.

Instead it was the opposite. The team actually regressed as the season went on. Theres no idea of which direction the team is going. It looks like we will suck again next year instead of sucking this year and being decent next year. Shanny basically wasted a year.

The organization is more of a joke than ever. Questionable moves were made all season long. Shanny has lost respect around the league and the team was a soap opera this year. Like I said theres no clear idea of which direction this team is going.

So yea I think fans and danny should be upset...atleast concerned. I would be concerned if danny was fine with how this season went. We have the same amount of questions, if not more, going into this offseason than last year.

[GoDeep81]

Lol, that is so true. I can't really understand how anyone might have been under the assumption that we would come anywhere close to challenging for the division, much less the playoffs, but I guess some people did and to them somehow this season is a massive disappointment.

The W-L record isnt the massive dissapointment.. It's how we got there.. If the season were reversed, and we started out sucking, yet ended the season beating GB, Philly, and Dallas it'd be a whole lot different feeling around here..

[ChillSkinzFan84]

And in all honesty with the deep free agent and draft class we should atleast be respectable next year. If this front office is legit then they should put together at the least a 7 win team next year. If they are a good to great front office team then they would be able to put together a 9-10 win team. We'll see what happens

[WVSkinsfan]

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFP-Sunday-Blitz-2727.html

There appear to be some cracks in the relationship between Redskins owner Dan Snyder and head coach Mike Shanahan and general manager Bruce Allen, according to those familiar with the goings on at Redskins Park. And that might mean Shanahan and Allen better win in 2011 if they want to be around in 2012.

This is EXACTLY why the Skins will never put a contending team year in and year out b/c of Snyder.He has never showed any patience at all since buying the Skins.He has single handedly destroyed this once proud franchise.I would'nt be shocked at all if he fires somebody during the offseason b/c thats the kind of guy he is.He always has to be in the news making the Skins look even worst every time he does something stupid. I am BEYOND sick of this guy and I would look to see him gone from the Washington Redskins.

[Backpack3r]

I don't think that its that fans thought that we would be contenders this year its that we expected to be going in some sort of direction. By the end of the year we should of been getting better with a promising future. And people expected to look like a legit top tier franchise now that"football people" are in charge running things.

Instead it was the opposite. The team actually regressed as the season went on. Theres no idea of which direction the team is going. It looks like we will suck again next year instead of sucking this year and being decent next year. Shanny basically wasted a year.

The organization is more of a joke than ever. Questionable moves were made all season long. Shanny has lost respect around the league and the team was a soap opera this year. Like I said theres no clear idea of which direction this team is going.

So yea I think fans and danny should be upset...atleast concerned. I would be concerned if danny was fine with how this season went. We have the same amount of questions, if not more, going into this offseason than last year.

Yeah unlike teams like the Bucs or the Chiefs, where the first year of the new coach they were rebuilding, and everyone knew they would suck, the Skins went into the year with a Win Now mentality, which was a very stupid approach. You are right, we basically wasted a year. Instead of showing promise this year, we ended up looking like **** with no identity. That Mcnabb trade is really hurting us, we could have gotten some good player in the 2nd round, and a good linemen in the 3rd round this year. That trade was an absolute failure

[Rdskns2000]

Last time there was a coach-gm conflict Dan sided with the coach.

The only way Dan accepts a losing year next year if the team is truly rebuilding. If they go through another sham year like 2010; then Shanny is on the hot seat. I think he would keep Bruce a little longer and if Danny reaches a point where he wants to make a change; Shanny would be given the walking papers first.

[stevemcqueen1]

And there's a potential crack in the face of a young woman because of Fred Davis. The Redskins are the Jersey Shore of the NFL.

It would seem that accusation is false.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/07/fred-davis-faces-potential-assault-charges/

[Bang]

Yeah unlike teams like the Bucs or the Chiefs, where the first year of the new coach they were rebuilding, and everyone knew they would suck, the Skins went into the year with a Win Now mentality, which was a very stupid approach. You are right, we basically wasted a year. Instead of showing promise this year, we ended up looking like **** with no identity. That Mcnabb trade is really hurting us, we could have gotten some good player in the 2nd round, and a good linemen in the 3rd round this year. That trade was an absolute failure

Assuming that anyone took a 4-12 team and put a "win now" mentality on it is what is a stupid approach.

Anytime you draft a left tackle first and expect him to start immediately, you're not taking a "win now' approach, no matter how many ticket-selling speeches they gave you.

There's such a thing as being able to somewhat accurately assess a team, and that is a big difference in listening to them tell you that they think it's a 'great group of guys" and that they can win now.
Every coach in the league says that. Every single year. And anyone with even half a brain could look at this team even WITH McCheese and see that there was nothing that could convince anyone they could "win now".

We made one move that everyone is hinging this"win now" crap on, and even though that move has turned out to be a huge mistake, you'd still have to convince me how that one move was supposed to put us over the top from 4-12 to winning "now".

By the way,, I've been paying attention to the goings on at redskins Park for over 40 years. Can I be a "source close to the situation", too?
These articles are such junk.

~Bang

[Seabee1973]

yeah, lets go for a no-name up-and-coming assistant that isn't a retread. Like a player's coach, who's fun-having and won't hold the players accountable....WAIT.....:paranoid:

The problem with this is Zorn did hold players accountable they just had free reign to snyders office which is what allen and shanahan want to change

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

Who gives a **** how Snyder feels right now.

Let me clue you in on a little something called Fear. If there was ever a move that Snyder could make that would result in him losing both the team as well as the fanbase, it would be to reacting in such a way that includes firing two competent individuals. Snyder may be alot of things, but he certainly is not stupid when it comes to bigger picture at hand.

Shanahan will be here for however long he chooses... bank on it.

[Probos]

I was going to start a thread talking about something like this, but figured I'd sound too speculatory.

Fact of the matter is, if Snyder fires Shanahan and Bruce Allen after 2 seasons, it's all over.

What exactly is "all over"? Haha -- The Shanahan/Allen era is over yes, but you hire new people and move on.

[thomasroane]

Agreed. I don't want to be apocalyptic. But if Snyder does this I will stop following this team until he either dies or sells it.

Count me in too. I'm pretty sure the story is BS. But still, we all remember what happened to Marty! Last year's revolt would look like a skirmish compared to the blood bath that would ensue if he pulls the plug on Shannahan and Allen!

[SWFLSkins]

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFP-Sunday-Blitz-2727.html

There appear to be some cracks in the relationship between Redskins owner Dan Snyder and head coach Mike Shanahan and general manager Bruce Allen, according to those familiar with the goings on at Redskins Park. And that might mean Shanahan and Allen better win in 2011 if they want to be around in 2012.

*There appear to be some cracks in the relationship between Redskins owner Dan Snyder and head coach Mike Shanahan and general manager Bruce Allen, according to those familiar with the goings on at Redskins Park. And that might mean Shanahan and Allen better win in 2011 if they want to be around in 2012.

_________________________________________

And that's it folks, nothing to see here, move on......

---------- Post added January-10th-2011 at 09:02 AM ----------


This is EXACTLY why the Skins will never put a contending team year in and year out b/c of Snyder.He has never showed any patience at all since buying the Skins.He has single handedly destroyed this once proud franchise.I would'nt be shocked at all if he fires somebody during the offseason b/c thats the kind of guy he is.He always has to be in the news making the Skins look even worst every time he does something stupid. I am BEYOND sick of this guy and I would look to see him gone from the Washington Redskins.

You seem like a bright intelligent fellow*, where exactly do read in this article that Snyder said anything?

[Jeffro]

The problem with this is Zorn did hold players accountable they just had free reign to snyders office which is what allen and shanahan want to change

ROFL... You clearly have short term memory.. this statement just made me spit my drink out. I'm going to guess your trolling?

[SMOSS89]

What I meant in terms of "it's all over", I mean for the owners credibility.

[Stew]

I was going to start a thread talking about something like this, but figured I'd sound too speculatory.

Fact of the matter is, if Snyder fires Shanahan and Bruce Allen after 2 seasons, it's all over.

NM, you responded. I was going to ask about what was "all over".

[Skinsinparadise]

If Snyder dumps Shanny after year 2 it would have to be for me some epic and embarrassing collapse, otherwise it would be a sign that its business as usual and here likely comes the return of Vinny, ugh! Having said that I doubt its true there is no substance behind these rumors, they aren't quoting anyone even anonymously

[Birdlives]

If read properly, this segment means literally nothing.

If true, all it means is someone told the writer that Snyder currently is not 100% happy with the way the team is being managed.

The second sentence is pure speculation, not fact.

It's his opinion.

Considering the history of Dan Snyder, its a safer bet than saying, "we still expect the Redskins to go into 2011 fully in tact."

The more telling statement this offseason so far was from Shanahan himself.

He has already said he will be bringing back his entire coaching staff for 2011.

He doesn't say that if there's any question of job security.

Snyder may not like the direction things or going, or, more likely he might just be merely concerned.

Either way, he's stuck with what he's got. There's no way he can survive another quick firing.

If Shanahan isn't here for three years minimum, the Redskins will start hemorrhaging money.

He's already having to work extremely hard just to gain back the apathetic fanbase he and Vinny created.

[addicted]

I'm having a hard time with your logic.

1 - You acknowledge that Snyder is a meddling owner but you think he wouldn't do this. Your reason is the fans...

2 - Snyder has mastered the art of taking money from schmucks via the "big name coach hire". Every time the fans have looked like they are going to revolt he hires a big name and every body on this forum is sold on a non-existent plan from day one.

I didn't say it was out of the realm of possibilities but I said it won't happen. I said doing what you suggested is like having a trashcan fire and trying to put it out with gasoline. And the "schmuck fans" as you call them aren't buying the same story of a different coach will fix anything anymore. That's been done over and over again with no results. If the Pavlovian dog theory your selling is accurate then why aren't more fans calling for Shanny's head today? Fact is these fans are taking a longer look at this and not expecting as you do that it can be turned around immediately and that it's going to take time to rebuild. Otherwise with the amount of turnover with the coaching staff says that if the fans think a hire will fix things they would be screaming for another quick fix. I don't see that yet.



This is just plain fantasy. The fans of the skins are easily manipulated and have been for more than a decade at this point. The only time the fans freaked out is when Zorn failed, the one time Snyder didn't hire a big name coach. As long as Snyder can hire someone the fans believe can fix this disaster they'll continue to attend games and buy redskins gear.

"Easily Manipulated" and comments like "Schmuck fans" eh? Sounds like you've got a problem with Skins fans as a whole. You've completely underestimated the damage Snyder's done to his reputation and the fans unhappyness. This isn't 2001, he's tried a few tricks like this in the past and it met failure every time. The one trick that the man needs to try is staying away yet you think that he's going to get more involved. Why would you want to see that? When has it ever worked? Why don't you believe the man can learn from mistakes?



This is asinine thinking.
Having the "luxury" of holding a meeting like that is exactly what any good owner should possess...and it's not a luxury, it's a responsibility and a right. It doesn't mean that meeting must take place, but as fans we shouldn't look at it as a luxury or privilege for our owner to have...

A neutered owner is no better than a meddling one.

If neutering was legal I'm positive you would have no problems finding some Redskins fans to take on the job.

And no your wrong as can be about this. Inactivity is much better then being a meddling moron like Snyders been in the past. If you question the unrest that the fan nation has today towards that man then I have to question your intelligence. No one wants to see Snyder get more involved except maybe you. I don't get that at all. Not all owners are treated equal just like not all players on the field are. A good owner is not going to get the same treatment that a bad one deserves. That's just the way it goes

[bigricky3469]

Does anybody know how messed up our roster is. We are either too old at some positions, or not talented at others, and or too many decent guys playing out of position. Our roster is one big messy sticky piece of do-do. Every year we got high hopes starting with the what if factor but that never seems to pan out for us. What if Brown returns to form our O-line

[Dick Edds]

this is just drummed up drama ... of course Snyder is pissed, we sucked this year and lost games. I have hard time believing Danny is going to start cracking the whip on Shanny (a future HOF'er nonetheless).

Danny needs Shanny more than he needs us. Shanny can find work somewhere else no problem if that is really what it comes down to. Snyder can put Jim Zorn on the hot seat, but not Shanny after only year one of a re-building process. And I don't care how you want to describe it, this IS a rebuilding (culture, organization, staff, roster and fan-base).

[ATLredskin]

Why are people looking at Shanahan like the chosen one. What does he have to do for you guys to jump off the bandwagon. Nobody is really holding him accountable for the horrible McNabb trade and the horrible free agent pickups. If Shanahan goes 6-10 next year then do would you still want him back and this is assuming he is going 6-10 without a young developing QB (not even one waiting in the wings)...

[HigSkin]

This just in...the reporter of the article is Albert Haynesworth's brother-in-law. :jerk:

[artmonkforHOF]

Please let this be true, then Shanny can GTFO and take the Kyle/Sexy Rexy show with him. I don't think any coach could have screwed up Big Al and DMac as much as Shanny did, even Zorn would not have dug himself that big of a hole to get out of like Shanny and his off season conditioning tests and poor cardio excuses.

[refhaf4L]

Please let this be true, then Shanny can GTFO and take the Kyle/Sexy Rexy show with him. I don't think any coach could have screwed up Big Al and DMac as much as Shanny did, even Zorn would not have dug himself that big of a hole to get out of like Shanny and his off season conditioning tests and poor cardio excuses.

The fact that you even care about Albert Haynsworth gives you little credability. This team is a team full of losers essentially, we have been loosine for 11 years. The only way you redifine a culture, is to tear it down and start from scratch. Shanny has admitted his mistakes with Mcnabb, oh well. The fact that this guy has a long term plan for this team is something we have been lacking for almost a decade. Getting Rid of Mike Shanahan would be the top 5 dumbest thing Snyder has done in his entire life. No question. This team has been a joke. When former players go to other teams to play, they say that the cultures are night and day. MS might not win a Superbowl here with us, but I'll bet you the farm that this team will be ready to compete in January for the next ten years once he's done tinkering with it.

[1972dodgedart]

Snyder will live with 6-10 again provided that Shannybruce make genuine progress towards bringing coherence and stability to the roster. But they used their mulligan on McNabb.

[The Diesel]

There was talk on the radio yesterday from Mike Florio about Shanny possibly being let go THIS offseason. I know, Mike Florio.... yadda yadda.

I'm going to say this though, and I think I actually mean it this time. If Snyder fires Shanahan after this season .... I am done. I will find another team to try and root for, or I'll just be a football fan in general with no team affiliation - a nomad. I swear to Christ if he fires Shanny after one season I will disaffiliate myself with the Washington Redskins for as long as Daniel Snyder is the owner.

[cphil006]

some pure SPECULATION followed by an OPINION on what would happen if the hypothetical SPECULATION were to happen... this is how rumors start and persist... freaking beautiful. see you after the draft... slow slow off-season indeed.

[addicted]

There was talk on the radio yesterday from Mike Florio about Shanny possibly being let go THIS offseason. I know, Mike Florio.... yadda yadda.

I'm going to say this though, and I think I actually mean it this time. If Snyder fires Shanahan after this season .... I am done. I will find another team to try and root for, or I'll just be a football fan in general with no team affiliation - a nomad. I swear to Christ if he fires Shanny after one season I will disaffiliate myself with the Washington Redskins for as long as Daniel Snyder is the owner.

You aren't alone. Lets hope that idiot does what's best and stays far far away from this team. If he treats Shanny and Bruce this poorly no respectable coach no matter the amount of money will want to coach here ever. Think that clustermess with the hiring of Zorn was bad...I bet the next search is 10 times worse.

[cphil006]

You aren't alone. Lets hope that idiot does what's best and stays far far away from this team. If he treats Shanny and Bruce this poorly no respectable coach no matter the amount of money will want to coach here ever. Think that clustermess with the hiring of Zorn was bad...I bet the next search is 10 times worse.

Mike Florio was offering his opinion, that's the problem... it wasn't what Dan was thinking of doing. The team is obviously more structured than when Zorn or Spurrier were here.

[stevemcqueen1]

Count me in too. I'm pretty sure the story is BS. But still, we all remember what happened to Marty! Last year's revolt would look like a skirmish compared to the blood bath that would ensue if he pulls the plug on Shannahan and Allen!

Yeah it smells like BS to me too. But Snyder has just about lost the benefit of the doubt.

Last year's fan revolt put the mechanisms in place for a greater revolt. It was like the Japanese-Russo Conflict to WWI or something. French Indochine conflict to Vietnam?

Hiring Allen and Shanahan was supposed to be a clean break from the old ways. Firing them after two seasons would merely prove that despite everything that's happened, nothing's changed. It would kill NFL football for me. I'd just have to follow the Wizards and Nats and go into sports hybernation during the fall. Perhaps there is a nice CFL team out there for me to follow?

[addicted]

Mike Florio was offering his opinion, that's the problem... it wasn't what Dan was thinking of doing. The team is obviously more structured than when Zorn or Spurrier were here.

Florrio would likely make his opinion that the world is in fact flat if people would talk about that. Florrio is just like other hacks out there playing "what if" games when it comes to this team. He knows that the Redskins faithful hang on every word said about us, that we pay attention in the offseasom better then most other fans, and are highly intellegent fans. So he drums up some silly nonsense like this which is based on nothing but his wanting attention from us and throws in the little "It's just my opinion" so that he can keep a shread of journalistic integrity with the bullspit. It's my opinion that the Seahangs are going to win the superbowl this year 72-0 and beat the Patriots. The "just my opinion" goes for the wildly unexpected to the rumor mill just the same no matter any facts or anything. It's a catch all for lying, manipulation, attention whoring, and on and on. It's my opinion is a game. You have to take the person saying it in context and Florrio has a reputation for saying anything that can or will get a rise out of you.

[stevemcqueen1]

Please let this be true, then Shanny can GTFO and take the Kyle/Sexy Rexy show with him. I don't think any coach could have screwed up Big Al and DMac as much as Shanny did, even Zorn would not have dug himself that big of a hole to get out of like Shanny and his off season conditioning tests and poor cardio excuses.

What are they putting in that water up in Hamilton, Ontario? Crazy Contrarian Pills?

---------- Post added January-10th-2011 at 12:26 PM ----------


Florrio would likely make his opinion that the world is in fact flat if people would talk about that. Florrio is just like other hacks out there playing "what if" games when it comes to this team. He knows that the Redskins faithful hang on every word said about us, that we pay attention in the offseasom better then most other fans, and are highly intellegent fans. So he drums up some silly nonsense like this which is based on nothing but his wanting attention from us and throws in the little "It's just my opinion" so that he can keep a shread of journalistic integrity with the bullspit. It's my opinion that the Seahangs are going to win the superbowl this year 72-0 and beat the Patriots. The "just my opinion" goes for the wildly unexpected to the rumor mill just the same no matter any facts or anything. It's a catch all for lying, manipulation, attention whoring, and on and on. It's my opinion is a game. You have to take the person saying it in context and Florrio has a reputation for saying anything that can or will get a rise out of you.

"It's my opinion" that Mike Florio is in need of a new line of work.

[mcgraw238]

Yea, Shanny isn't getting fired anytime soon

If he is fired after next season Snyder will be on the hook for 21 million to Shanny

Along with the money he already wasted on AH.

The money tree at Redskins park is running out of money. This isn't the franchise from the early to middle part of the decade that was minting money

Club seat contracts have run out, renewals get lower and lower every year and the economy really hit hard with sponsorships and advertising.

Lets not forget the Six Flags epic fail and Johnny Rockets flopping and 980 getting its ass handed to it ratings wise by 106.7 the fan.

Dan can't afford to fire Shanny until after 4 years. He can't be on the hook for 21 million dollars

Th

This post is spot on. Add in the dollars Snyder is paying Zorn for this season as well and you have a balance sheet for Snyder that can't be as rosy as it was say 5 years ago. I don't expect Snyder to eat as much contract as it would take to can several years of Shanny's contract. Thus, I just don't see it happening. That said, I really hope that Snyder stays in the background and the current front office begins to build something tangible and long term. They can start by respecting the draft and move to accumulate picks they way other successful organizations do. The McNabb fiasco doesn't really add up to me which makes me wonder if there was another move (as speculated) at the time of that trade that did not work out. I also wonder whether the fan base (and owner) will have the patience if we acquire a young franchise QB as part of a rebuilding process. TK has mentioned this thing getting blown up, a rebuild even if those words are spoken, and I hope we see major changes to approach to constructing the roster.

TK, perhaps you could opine whether there is any buzz about changes to the scouting department as contemplated last offseason?

---------- Post added January-10th-2011 at 05:37 PM ----------


"It's my opinion" that Mike Florio is in need of a new line of work.

Unfortunately, it seems to me that Florio has carved out a nice role for himself by throwing [insert explicative] against the wall. Afterall, it landed him a gig on NBC Sunday nights.

[Hollywood1127]

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFP-Sunday-Blitz-2727.html

There appear to be some cracks in the relationship between Redskins owner Dan Snyder and head coach Mike Shanahan and general manager Bruce Allen, according to those familiar with the goings on at Redskins Park. And that might mean Shanahan and Allen better win in 2011 if they want to be around in 2012.

I believe this is true. We wasted two draft picks on McNabb, just to bench him for Grossman. Now McNabb wants to leave. Shanny said he could stay if he is willing to be a back-up. If anyone knows McNabb he is not going to be a back-up QB. He could easily go to another team and start. From the way things are looking, we may end up having Grossman as starter for next season. I don't see a draft pick QB taking us to the play offs under the current O-Line that we have. If Shanny has a loosing season, he is done. The way Snyder is going to see it is that you wasted my draft picks, just to bench McNabb. Now he is gone and I have another loosing season.

I could this being the last season for Shannahan, Kyle Shannahan and possibly Bruce Allen.

[NAZology]

Correct me if I am wrong, but everyone who is bringing up $ for the reason Shanahan won't be fired is probably wrong.

If we have Shanahan for 7 million and fire him, and then let's say another team hires him for 5 million. Isn't Danny only on the hook for the difference? 2 Million? Or whatever the case may be.

I think it would be silly to think another team wouldn't go after Shanahan.

I don't want him fired. Part of me says there is a purge process with players, adjusting to his style, his demands and building his culture etc.. The other part of me thinks back to all the washed up running backs we had, trading for McNabb and the handling of a few situations that make me question what the hell he is doing

[mcgraw238]

Correct me if I am wrong, but everyone who is bringing up $ for the reason Shanahan won't be fired is probably wrong.

If we have Shanahan for 7 million and fire him, and then let's say another team hires him for 5 million. Isn't Danny only on the hook for the difference? 2 Million? Or whatever the case may be.

I think it would be silly to think another team wouldn't go after Shanahan.

I don't want him fired. Part of me says there is a purge process with players, adjusting to his style, his demands and building his culture etc.. The other part of me thinks back to all the washed up running backs we had, trading for McNabb and the handling of a few situations that make me question what the hell he is doing

Your correct that Snyder would only be on the hook for the difference assuming an immediate hire by another club. If, as you say, another team would go after Shanny, what would that say about our franchise's dismissal of such a desired commodity? The questions on Mcnabb, etc. are valid which makes the approach this offseason all the more interesting.

[paloosa]

Cose this thread because it is pure speculation and nothing to back anything. It is just another opinion by a media writer that just states an observation that is baseless and without facts yet someone sees it and makes it a post. Why?

[Jeffro]

I believe this is true. We wasted two draft picks on McNabb, just to bench him for Grossman. Now McNabb wants to leave. Shanny said he could stay if he is willing to be a back-up. If anyone knows McNabb he is not going to be a back-up QB. He could easily go to another team and start. From the way things are looking, we may end up having Grossman as starter for next season. I don't see a draft pick QB taking us to the play offs under the current O-Line that we have. If Shanny has a loosing season, he is done. The way Snyder is going to see it is that you wasted my draft picks, just to bench McNabb. Now he is gone and I have another loosing season.

I could this being the last season for Shanahan, Kyle Shanahan and possibly Bruce Allen.

Ah, the wonderful use of hindsight.. When Shanny got McNabb for a 2nd everyone in the organization praised the pickup and joked how they wrote his name on the draft board as their 2nd rounder. They printed his face on season tickets, on TV, on the billboards etc. Now, what your suggesting is, that because it didn't work out for whatever reason, that now Shanny is on the hot seat for "wasting picks". That's beautiful logic on us fans part. To me, if he would have covered his butt, left him in and rode him for three years that would have been "Vinny" like. I like the fact that they took a shot, it didn't work, Shanny and Bruce were smart enough to give themselves an out on the contract release but get ridiculed for that as well. The bottom line is, no one can ever do right by this fan base.. they either go all out and make big free agent splashes and get killed by "hindsight" or they have the balls to rebuild and get killed for not "winning now".

I support Bruce and Shanny 100% and I entrust the team to them until their contracts expire, that's fair in my opinion.

If we go back to the old Redskins and fire Shanny, hire some new guy who wins the off season FA and we get right back into the old swing then you can consider this fan done forever with the team after 30+ years. It's no wonder we are in an infinite loop, the damn fans are just as much to blame as the ownership.

My 2 cents are free.

[skinsfan913]

YES!!! Best news I've heard all day!! For those that would stop being Skins fans I say, "Good riddance dont let the door hit ya on the way OUT!! If Shanny and Co dont produce next year then they should be let go plain and simple!! In todays NFL you have to win today and Shanahan didnt do it his last years in Denver( reaon why he was fired!) and he certainly aint doing it now. This year has been totally FUBAR!!

---------- Post added January-10th-2011 at 01:10 PM ----------

So Shanny gets a 2-3 year pass while a future hall-of-fame QB gets about 1/2 year to run a NEW system to perfection?! Sounds like a genius head coach we got here!

[sly]

Shanahan and Bruce Allen aren't going anywhere. If so, Snyder truly needs to get his head examined along with the rest of you who think the coaching staff needs to purged (AGAINx5) after a season or two... or even three or four. Yes, there's always drama with this team (and honestly, there's drama with every NFL team... do you remember the best coach in the NFL having that little "spy gate" incident?), but FINALLY we truly know what it's like to see real leadership on our favorite professional football team. It's never going to be perfect... we're not going to win every down... every game.... and every Super Bowl every season... but for god's sake the coaching carousel and letting players not be held accountable has got to stop. Shanahan is here to stay. And regardless of our win-loss record this season, that makes me very happy.

[authentic]

YES!!! Best news I've heard all day!! For those that would stop being Skins fans I say, "Good riddance dont let the door hit ya on the way OUT!! If Shanny and Co dont produce next year then they should be let go plain and simple!! In todays NFL you have to win today and Shanahan didnt do it his last years in Denver( reaon why he was fired!) and he certainly aint doing it now. This year has been totally FUBAR!!

---------- Post added January-10th-2011 at 01:10 PM ----------

So Shanny gets a 2-3 year pass while a future hall-of-fame QB gets about 1/2 year to run a NEW system to perfection?! Sounds like a genius head coach we got here!

Nothing shocks me at ES anymore. Absolutely NOTHING!!! :doh:

[Jeffro]

YES!!! Best news I've heard all day!! For those that would stop being Skins fans I say, "Good riddance dont let the door hit ya on the way OUT!! If Shanny and Co dont produce next year then they should be let go plain and simple!! In todays NFL you have to win today and Shanahan didnt do it his last years in Denver( reaon why he was fired!) and he certainly aint doing it now. This year has been totally FUBAR!!

---------- Post added January-10th-2011 at 01:10 PM ----------

So Shanny gets a 2-3 year pass while a future hall-of-fame QB gets about 1/2 year to run a NEW system to perfection?! Sounds like a genius head coach we got here!

I'd love to hear your suggestion on what "you" would do for the next coach, GM and what decisions you would make for this team. Please feel free to share, I'd be interested.

[gortiz]

Nothing shocks me at ES anymore. Absolutely NOTHING!!! :doh:

wait a minute ...

[Popeman38]

Dollars to donuts the "source" is Vinny Cerrato. He is the only one that stands to gain from this BS.

[refhaf4L]

YES!!! Best news I've heard all day!! For those that would stop being Skins fans I say, "Good riddance dont let the door hit ya on the way OUT!! If Shanny and Co dont produce next year then they should be let go plain and simple!! In todays NFL you have to win today and Shanahan didnt do it his last years in Denver( reaon why he was fired!) and he certainly aint doing it now. This year has been totally FUBAR!!

---------- Post added January-10th-2011 at 01:10 PM ----------

So Shanny gets a 2-3 year pass while a future hall-of-fame QB gets about 1/2 year to run a NEW system to perfection?! Sounds like a genius head coach we got here!


The QB has one job to do ....the head coach has a bout 2 dozen jobs to do...awful analogy.

[cphil006]

Dollars to donuts the "source" is Vinny Cerrato. He is the only one that stands to gain from this BS.

Let the SPECULATION continue... I would be so MAD if Vinny came back...!!!

[thebluefood]

Let the SPECULATION continue... I would be so MAD if Vinny came back...!!!

I was just thinking that. I'm taking a year off of Redskins football if that happens.

[ChillSkinzFan84]

YES!!! Best news I've heard all day!! For those that would stop being Skins fans I say, "Good riddance dont let the door hit ya on the way OUT!! If Shanny and Co dont produce next year then they should be let go plain and simple!! In todays NFL you have to win today and Shanahan didnt do it his last years in Denver( reaon why he was fired!) and he certainly aint doing it now. This year has been totally FUBAR!!

---------- Post added January-10th-2011 at 01:10 PM ----------

So Shanny gets a 2-3 year pass while a future hall-of-fame QB gets about 1/2 year to run a NEW system to perfection?! Sounds like a genius head coach we got here!

Exactly thats why i just laugh at them. They're so busy trying to defend "the chosen one" Mike Shanahan that they dont realize that they're being hypocrites. They say give Shannahan time to prove he can win here but dont want to give McNabb time to learn a new system and prove he can be the guy, they say what has mcnabb done for the redskins...but what has shanny done for the redskins? They say the team needs accountability but the coach has none, They riddocule Vinny but praise Shanny for doing the same thing ( trade draft picks for older players, sign old free agents, bad trades, and this year shanny will sign some big name free agents just like vinny did), when vinny made mistakes he was crucified but when you bring up shanny's mistaks its " oh well it didnt work out just move on". I cant wait to see the spin they put on this offseason and praise shanny for doing such a good job filling holes on this team with free agency and the draft...when in actuality it will be the same thing we have been trying to do for years...just different people doing it. Just a bunch of hypocrites with blind faith in my opnion.

Right now they say that they dont want free agents but when there are rumors and we sign some players the board will be flooded with members who have hope excitement and optimisim just like every other year.

Its ok to like the coach and want him to succseed...we all want that we're all redskins fans here. But dont just have blind faith and ignore the bad things the coaching staff and front office does, the bad decisions they make, the warning signs...because you better believe that if this doesnt work out that most on here will flip and use hindsight 20/20 to say they saw it coming and shannahan was an idiot for making all the dumb moves he made. You know kinda like they do Vinny now.

And dont criticize the fans that do see whats going on and point out the mistakes that are being made, dont hate us just because we arent going all in with blind faith and acting like Shanny is a savior. Some of us just call it like we see it and want the coach to have some accountability. Like I said we all want the Redskins to win, we all want this to work out...but that doesnt mean that you should just ignore and dismiss the mistakes being made.

I just hope that with Shanny being held accountable that he makes a change on his my way or the highway philosophy and realize that you need talent and the best players to win...not just players that "fit your system"...great coaches coach and adapt their systems to the talent that they have on their team, the great coaches are managers of the talent that they have, and by that i mean manage the people not just the player. So far he has failed to do so.

I hope he changes and realizes that he cant just get rid of our best players. Because as a great coach once said " a great coach with no talent on his team is an EX COACH"

[Voice_of_Reason]

The question has got to be, what's plan B? If he has lost faith in Allen and Shannahan, who in God's name is he going to have faith IN? He brought back Gibbs, that was ok, but he's gone and not coming back. Zorn didn't work out... I mean, at some point you've just got to grit it and bear it for a while.

Though, I think if I was in his position, what would frustrate me, and make me want to pick up the phone and call Mike and have a chat with him has nothing to do with the football side. It's the PR side.

It sounds like within the locker room, guys respect him. And he never lost the team. They fought hard until the end. They tried something with McNabb, it didn't work. Those things are going to happen.

However, what is sortof inexcusable has been the soap opera surrounding the 'Skins. First with Fat Albert, then with McNabb being benched. There are just better ways to do it, and he's got to find those, and find them fast. Because the likes of Lavar, Dukes, Czaban, and the other mediots out there who just make ratings complaining about everything will not go away until they start winning consistently.

[Dick Edds]

Exactly thats why i just laugh at them. They're so busy trying to defend "the chosen one" Mike Shanahan that they dont realize that they're being hypocrites. They say give Shannahan time to prove he can win here but dont want to give McNabb time to learn a new system and prove he can be the guy, they say what has mcnabb done for the redskins...but what has shanny done for the redskins? They say the team needs accountability but the coach has none, They riddocule Vinny but praise Shanny for doing the same thing ( trade draft picks for older players, sign old free agents, bad trades, and this year shanny will sign some big name free agents just like vinny did), when vinny made mistakes he was crucified but when you bring up shanny's mistaks its " oh well it didnt work out just move on". I cant wait to see the spin they put on this offseason and praise shanny for doing such a good job filling holes on this team with free agency and the draft...when in actuality it will be the same thing we have been trying to do for years...just different people doing it. Just a bunch of hypocrites with blind faith in my opnion.

Right now they say that they dont want free agents but when there are rumors and we sign some players the board will be flooded with members who have hope excitement and optimisim just like every other year.

Its ok to like the coach and want him to succseed...we all want that we're all redskins fans here. But dont just have blind faith and ignore the bad things the coaching staff and front office does, the bad decisions they make, the warning signs...because you better believe that if this doesnt work out that most on here will flip and use hindsight 20/20 to say they saw it coming and shannahan was an idiot for making all the dumb moves he made. You know kinda like they do Vinny now.

And dont criticize the fans that do see whats going on and point out the mistakes that are being made, dont hate us just because we arent going all in with blind faith and acting like Shanny is a savior. Some of us just call it like we see it and want the coach to have some accountability. Like I said we all want the Redskins to win, we all want this to work out...but that doesnt mean that you should just ignore and dismiss the mistakes being made.

I just hope that with Shanny being held accountable that he makes a change on his my way or the highway philosophy and realize that you need talent and the best players to win...not just players that "fit your system"...great coaches coach and adapt their systems to the talent that they have on their team, the great coaches are managers of the talent that they have, and by that i mean manage the people not just the player. So far he has failed to do so.

I hope he changes and realizes that he cant just get rid of our best players. Because as a great coach once said " a great coach with no talent on his team is an EX COACH"

hmmmmm ... I'm gonna go out on limb and guess you weren't part of the burgundy revolution last year ...

[refhaf4L]

Exactly thats why i just laugh at them. They're so busy trying to defend "the chosen one" Mike Shanahan that they dont realize that they're being hypocrites. They say give Shannahan time to prove he can win here but dont want to give McNabb time to learn a new system and prove he can be the guy, they say what has mcnabb done for the redskins...but what has shanny done for the redskins? They say the team needs accountability but the coach has none, They riddocule Vinny but praise Shanny for doing the same thing ( trade draft picks for older players, sign old free agents, bad trades, and this year shanny will sign some big name free agents just like vinny did), when vinny made mistakes he was crucified but when you bring up shanny's mistaks its " oh well it didnt work out just move on". I cant wait to see the spin they put on this offseason and praise shanny for doing such a good job filling holes on this team with free agency and the draft...when in actuality it will be the same thing we have been trying to do for years...just different people doing it. Just a bunch of hypocrites with blind faith in my opnion.

Right now they say that they dont want free agents but when there are rumors and we sign some players the board will be flooded with members who have hope excitement and optimisim just like every other year.

Its ok to like the coach and want him to succseed...we all want that we're all redskins fans here. But dont just have blind faith and ignore the bad things the coaching staff and front office does, the bad decisions they make, the warning signs...because you better believe that if this doesnt work out that most on here will flip and use hindsight 20/20 to say they saw it coming and shannahan was an idiot for making all the dumb moves he made. You know kinda like they do Vinny now.

And dont criticize the fans that do see whats going on and point out the mistakes that are being made, dont hate us just because we arent going all in with blind faith and acting like Shanny is a savior. Some of us just call it like we see it and want the coach to have some accountability. Like I said we all want the Redskins to win, we all want this to work out...but that doesnt mean that you should just ignore and dismiss the mistakes being made.

I just hope that with Shanny being held accountable that he makes a change on his my way or the highway philosophy and realize that you need talent and the best players to win...not just players that "fit your system"...great coaches coach and adapt their systems to the talent that they have on their team, the great coaches are managers of the talent that they have, and by that i mean manage the people not just the player. So far he has failed to do so.

I hope he changes and realizes that he cant just get rid of our best players. Because as a great coach once said " a great coach with no talent on his team is an EX COACH"

First of all, you are grossly exaggerating the free agent blunders of Shanny this past offseason. For the most part, Mcnabb was a big mistake and the coach has essentially admitted as much. So he's taken accountability for that mistake, and he has immediately began to try to go another direction...like it or not, that is what leaders do. Secondly, there is no comparison right now to the Cerrato Era because VC has many, many examples of failure to point out, and the current regime is simply dealing with them in the best way they know how.
There also has never been any talk of "not wanting" free agents as you claim. Free agents are a part of the current NFL team structure--to not want them or use them would be the kiss od death for a franchise because they can add immediate leadership and NFL talent to a roster. The issue with free agents as far as the REdskins are concearned is that in the past, we have overpaid undeserving players at the expense of building a complete roster, or using money more wisely to stockpile players in various positions to add depth. Being smart with their money and collecting as many young players through the draft is the route that they are commited to. And all of you Shanny haters out there--did you really think he was going to be able to take a plate of cow dung and turn it into a gourmet meal in one year?

[ChillSkinzFan84]

I'd love to hear your suggestion on what "you" would do for the next coach, GM and what decisions you would make for this team. Please feel free to share, I'd be interested.

I know that you didnt direct this at me but it seems like fun and ill say what I would do if I were GM or coach. Im basing this as if we fired Shanny (which im not saying i would do)

Ok (clears throat while fixing his tie) I would hire Russ Grimm or Rob Ryan as head coach. I would prefer to Have Russ as head coach and Rob(or maybe Mike Singletary) as defensive cordinator. I would KEEP Donovan and haynesworth. I would tailor my system to the talent that we currently have on the team and i would put the players in the best position for them to succeed instead of forcing them into a system that they dont fit. In the draft I would go best player available (much like Ozzie Smith does with the Ravens), and I would try to trade Cooley and Andre Carter for a few extra picks. In free agency I would try to fill some holes because there are a ton of good players available this year. This is the perfect year to grab some good talent in free agency, young talent so they will be in redskins uniforms during their prime years instead of after their prime years. I would get rid of most of the older players on the team and let the young hungry unproven players loose. After the draft and free agency hopefully most of the holes are filled and I would look to undrafted free agents to get some good depth on the team and practice squad.

That would be my first offseason and the foundation would of been laid with young hungry talent sprinkled in with some veteran talent and leaders to show the young guys what it is to be a proffessional in this league. Then hopefully year 2 I can fill the rest of the holes on the team and start my yearly traddition of collecting talent in the draft and free agency so eventually my depth would be filled with young ballers ready to step in at a moments notice forcing me to make tough decisions on who the starter should be because my depth is almost as good as the starters. That way I can trade some starters after their prime for more draft picks. I dont give a damn about who the fan favorite is...im running this like the Steelers and Patriots.

Oh yea and im cutting Rex Grossman ASAP.

[refhaf4L]

I know that you didnt direct this at me but it seems like fun and ill say what I would do if I were GM or coach. Im basing this as if we fired Shanny (which im not saying i would do)

Ok (clears throat while fixing his tie) I would hire Russ Grimm or Rob Ryan as head coach. I would prefer to Have Russ as head coach and Rob(or maybe Mike Singletary) as defensive cordinator. I would KEEP Donovan and haynesworth. I would tailor my system to the talent that we currently have on the team and i would put the players in the best position for them to succeed instead of forcing them into a system that they dont fit. In the draft I would go best player available (much like Ozzie Smith does with the Ravens), and I would try to trade Cooley and Andre Carter for a few extra picks. In free agency I would try to fill some holes because there are a ton of good players available this year. This is the perfect year to grab some good talent in free agency, young talent so they will be in redskins uniforms during their prime years instead of after their prime years. I would get rid of most of the older players on the team and let the young hungry unproven players loose. After the draft and free agency hopefully most of the holes are filled and I would look to undrafted free agents to get some good depth on the team and practice squad.

That would be my first offseason and the foundation would of been laid with young hungry talent sprinkled in with some veteran talent and leaders to show the young guys what it is to be a proffessional in this league. Then hopefully year 2 I can fill the rest of the holes on the team and start my yearly traddition of collecting talent in the draft and free agency so eventually my depth would be filled with young ballers ready to step in at a moments notice forcing me to make tough decisions on who the starter should be because my depth is almost as good as the starters. That way I can trade some starters after their prime for more draft picks. I dont give a damn about who the fan favorite is...im running this like the Steelers and Patriots.

Oh yea and im cutting Rex Grossman ASAP.

So basically, stick with what we've always done--bring in players and mold our team philosophy around who we have. Ozzie Newsome drafts the best player available, but you can bet the farm that he does it knowing that they run a certain type of defense or offense. you don't a fantastic option QB/athlete if you don't run that system. Same thing with the Steelers and the Patriots. And when you make a change, like going from a 4-3 to a 3-4, there is no right time to do it. Now is as good as any--especially since we ain't gonna win the super bowl with this roster anyway.

[ChillSkinzFan84]

First of all, you are grossly exaggerating the free agent blunders of Shanny this past offseason. For the most part, Mcnabb was a big mistake and the coach has essentially admitted as much. So he's taken accountability for that mistake, and he has immediately began to try to go another direction...like it or not, that is what leaders do. Secondly, there is no comparison right now to the Cerrato Era because VC has many, many examples of failure to point out, and the current regime is simply dealing with them in the best way they know how.
There also has never been any talk of "not wanting" free agents as you claim. Free agents are a part of the current NFL team structure--to not want them or use them would be the kiss od death for a franchise because they can add immediate leadership and NFL talent to a roster. The issue with free agents as far as the REdskins are concearned is that in the past, we have overpaid undeserving players at the expense of building a complete roster, or using money more wisely to stockpile players in various positions to add depth. Being smart with their money and collecting as many young players through the draft is the route that they are commited to. And all of you Shanny haters out there--did you really think he was going to be able to take a plate of cow dung and turn it into a gourmet meal in one year?

First of all ofcourse Shanny hasnt equaled the mistakes that Vinny made. He has been here only 1 year while Vinny was here for 9 or 10. Thats common sense. My point is that in year one he has made similar mistakes that Vinny did. Not the amount of mistakes. Would you argue that?

And the free agents I was talking about were Larry Johnson, Willie Parker, Joey Galloway, Roydell Williams all players who should of never been signed in the first place. I never liked Randle El but cutting him and Thomas just to keep Galloway and Williams doesnt make sense to me. No matter which way you try to spin it. You cant convince me that Thomas couldnt off been the 4th or 5th reciever on this team...even if he couldnt get on the field he was still a good productive Kick Returner he was 5th in the league when we cut him. I would rather have Banks return Punts and a bigger stronger Thomas on kicks. In my opinion he made a mistake at the reciever posistion which hurt the team this year. Moss, Armstrong, Randle El, Kelly, Thomas, Banks is alot better than Moss, Galloway, Armstrong, Williams. If you dont agree with that then I dont know what to tell you.

At RB he cut Torrain for Johnson. He got lucky that no other team claimed Torrain because that allowed him to resign him. But he doesnt get credit for Luck. If another team signs Torrain then where would of that left the running game?

The thing that makes the McNabb trade bad is the fact that he only kept him for a season. He knew the player he was getting...if he would of tailored the offense a little to fit what McNabb can do well and kept him for atleast 3 years while a young qb sits and learns the game then that trade wouldnt of been horrible. How is trading 2 picks to get McNabb for one year any different than trading 2 picks to get Jason Taylor for 1 year?

And there have been plenty of people that say "just say no to free agents" or "everytime a free agent is availabe you fans always start a lets sign him thread...just build thru the draft". People act like free agents are a bad thing around here just because some of them didnt work out. In reality more of them worked out than were busts. So I agree with you on everything else you say about free agents. But my point is that people say "say no to big name free agents" and bash Vinny/Gibbs for signing big name guys but dont call out Shannahan for doing the same thing. And he's going to get more big names this offseason.

And im not a "Shanny Hater" im an "arrogant coach who doesnt adjust his system to his players, who cant communicate with players, who makes decisions with his ego, who gets in pissing matches with players" hater. I was on board with hiring Shanny as COACH but not GM. I said it from day one that he has too much ego and he isnt a good GM. And he hasnt proven me wrong so far.

And no I didnt think we would win it all this year but I was hopig that he would have the team getting better and moving in a good direction as the season went on. I didnt expect him to cut talent off of the team and i didnt expect him to get into a pissing match with 2 of our best players in McNabb and Haynesworth.

So once again I ask you...are you saying that he hasnt made similar mistakes that Vinny/Gibbs made?

---------- Post added January-10th-2011 at 03:20 PM ----------


So basically, stick with what we've always done--bring in players and mold our team philosophy around who we have. Ozzie Newsome drafts the best player available, but you can bet the farm that he does it knowing that they run a certain type of defense or offense. you don't a fantastic option QB/athlete if you don't run that system. Same thing with the Steelers and the Patriots. And when you make a change, like going from a 4-3 to a 3-4, there is no right time to do it. Now is as good as any--especially since we ain't gonna win the super bowl with this roster anyway.

How does building thru the draft and playing young players sound like ANYTHING we have been doing? Did I say anythign about going back to a 4-3? If you know football then you would know that Mike Singletary and Rob Ryan run the 3-4 defense.

An any great coach will tell you that the job of a coach is to adjust to the talent he has. To put players in a position to succeed, to build the system around what you have and most of all be a teacher. If it were up to me I would of ran the 4-3 for atleast this year until we got more pieces that fit the 3-4.

The NFL is a RESULTS driven business. And right now his results stink. He can want to run "his system" all he wants but I gurantee you that if doesnt get results in the next 2 years then him and his "system" will be out of here.

We didnt have to be 6-10 this year, ofcourse he wants you to think that so the pressure is off of him and he can just say "hey i had a bad team what did you expect", but the truth is this year we underachieved and last year we underachieved again this year. Both years we underachieved due to coaching. If he would of made better coaching/system and personnel decisions then we would of had a better record this year.

[refhaf4L]

First of all ofcourse Shanny hasnt equaled the mistakes that Vinny made. He has been here only 1 year while Vinny was here for 9 or 10. Thats common sense. My point is that in year one he has made similar mistakes that Vinny did. Not the amount of mistakes. Would you argue that?

And the free agents I was talking about were Larry Johnson, Willie Parker, Joey Galloway, Roydell Williams all players who should of never been signed in the first place. I never liked Randle El but cutting him and Thomas just to keep Galloway and Williams doesnt make sense to me. No matter which way you try to spin it. You cant convince me that Thomas couldnt off been the 4th or 5th reciever on this team...even if he couldnt get on the field he was still a good productive Kick Returner he was 5th in the league when we cut him. I would rather have Banks return Punts and a bigger stronger Thomas on kicks. In my opinion he made a mistake at the reciever posistion which hurt the team this year. Moss, Armstrong, Randle El, Kelly, Thomas, Banks is alot better than Moss, Galloway, Armstrong, Williams. If you dont agree with that then I dont know what to tell you.

At RB he cut Torrain for Johnson. He got lucky that no other team claimed Torrain because that allowed him to resign him. But he doesnt get credit for Luck. If another team signs Torrain then where would of that left the running game?

The thing that makes the McNabb trade bad is the fact that he only kept him for a season. He knew the player he was getting...if he would of tailored the offense a little to fit what McNabb can do well and kept him for atleast 3 years while a young qb sits and learns the game then that trade wouldnt of been horrible. How is trading 2 picks to get McNabb for one year any different than trading 2 picks to get Jason Taylor for 1 year?

And there have been plenty of people that say "just say no to free agents" or "everytime a free agent is availabe you fans always start a lets sign him thread...just build thru the draft". People act like free agents are a bad thing around here just because some of them didnt work out. In reality more of them worked out than were busts. So I agree with you on everything else you say about free agents. But my point is that people say "say no to big name free agents" and bash Vinny/Gibbs for signing big name guys but dont call out Shannahan for doing the same thing. And he's going to get more big names this offseason.

And im not a "Shanny Hater" im an "arrogant coach who doesnt adjust his system to his players, who cant communicate with players, who makes decisions with his ego, who gets in pissing matches with players" hater. I was on board with hiring Shanny as COACH but not GM. I said it from day one that he has too much ego and he isnt a good GM. And he hasnt proven me wrong so far.

And no I didnt think we would win it all this year but I was hopig that he would have the team getting better and moving in a good direction as the season went on. I didnt expect him to cut talent off of the team and i didnt expect him to get into a pissing match with 2 of our best players in McNabb and Haynesworth.

So once again I ask you...are you saying that he hasnt made similar mistakes that Vinny/Gibbs made?

Well, Shanny has no doubt made some mistakes. But honestly, bringing in Willie Parker and LJ for peanuts as opposed to millions was actually the first sign that we had actual professionals running the show as opposed to glorified marketing machines disguised as NFL executives. Galloway was an awful decision in retrospect, be the guy runs meticulous routes and he practices his arse of with a monsterous work ethic. I think the organization was pretty surprised that his hands ended up sucking. Ususally with players of that age it's speed and agility, but as we saw he was open often and dropped balls--hence he got canned. No sympathy from me here on ARE--he was a debacle. a catch or two every other game and a negative punt return average. I had seen enough. Thomas, a cocky young receiver with no work ethic and no production. You can be an a-hole if you produce. But if your not producing and your an a-hole--pink slip. I got no problem with that either. He may or may not have helped us a little, but I saw guys like Chris Cooley and Santana Moss dropping balls this season that would have resulted in touchdowns--Thomas being on the roster doesn't change that one bit...Shanny drafted Torrain for a reason so I'm not about to call him lucky. RTe was on our practice squad and stepped up when CP went down and LJ got released. Great story.

[zskins]

Snyder to Allen and Shanny: Well this was such a disappointed season. I am not happy how things turned out.

Media: Potential cracks in relationship between Snyder and Shanahan / Allen

FACT: Snyder has already told the public about not being happy about this season. So not sure how this is just an inside info?

[lawboy_2000]

Didn't we actually improve our record under year one of Shanny? And some on this board are calling for his head!!

Who cares if Danny is upset and ashamed...He has done it to us as fans for years!!

Let the grown-ups run things over at Redskins Park, and have some patience!!

[charles mannley]

He knew the player he was getting...if he would of tailored the offense a little to fit what McNabb can do well and kept him for atleast 3 years while a young qb sits and learns the game then that trade wouldnt of been horrible.

So what does McNabb do well?

[refhaf4L]

First of all ofcourse Shanny hasnt equaled the mistakes that Vinny made. He has been here only 1 year while Vinny was here for 9 or 10. Thats common sense. My point is that in year one he has made similar mistakes that Vinny did. Not the amount of mistakes. Would you argue that?

And the free agents I was talking about were Larry Johnson, Willie Parker, Joey Galloway, Roydell Williams all players who should of never been signed in the first place. I never liked Randle El but cutting him and Thomas just to keep Galloway and Williams doesnt make sense to me. No matter which way you try to spin it. You cant convince me that Thomas couldnt off been the 4th or 5th reciever on this team...even if he couldnt get on the field he was still a good productive Kick Returner he was 5th in the league when we cut him. I would rather have Banks return Punts and a bigger stronger Thomas on kicks. In my opinion he made a mistake at the reciever posistion which hurt the team this year. Moss, Armstrong, Randle El, Kelly, Thomas, Banks is alot better than Moss, Galloway, Armstrong, Williams. If you dont agree with that then I dont know what to tell you.

At RB he cut Torrain for Johnson. He got lucky that no other team claimed Torrain because that allowed him to resign him. But he doesnt get credit for Luck. If another team signs Torrain then where would of that left the running game?

The thing that makes the McNabb trade bad is the fact that he only kept him for a season. He knew the player he was getting...if he would of tailored the offense a little to fit what McNabb can do well and kept him for atleast 3 years while a young qb sits and learns the game then that trade wouldnt of been horrible. How is trading 2 picks to get McNabb for one year any different than trading 2 picks to get Jason Taylor for 1 year?

And there have been plenty of people that say "just say no to free agents" or "everytime a free agent is availabe you fans always start a lets sign him thread...just build thru the draft". People act like free agents are a bad thing around here just because some of them didnt work out. In reality more of them worked out than were busts. So I agree with you on everything else you say about free agents. But my point is that people say "say no to big name free agents" and bash Vinny/Gibbs for signing big name guys but dont call out Shannahan for doing the same thing. And he's going to get more big names this offseason.

And im not a "Shanny Hater" im an "arrogant coach who doesnt adjust his system to his players, who cant communicate with players, who makes decisions with his ego, who gets in pissing matches with players" hater. I was on board with hiring Shanny as COACH but not GM. I said it from day one that he has too much ego and he isnt a good GM. And he hasnt proven me wrong so far.

And no I didnt think we would win it all this year but I was hopig that he would have the team getting better and moving in a good direction as the season went on. I didnt expect him to cut talent off of the team and i didnt expect him to get into a pissing match with 2 of our best players in McNabb and Haynesworth.

So once again I ask you...are you saying that he hasnt made similar mistakes that Vinny/Gibbs made?

---------- Post added January-10th-2011 at 03:20 PM ----------



How does building thru the draft and playing young players sound like ANYTHING we have been doing? Did I say anythign about going back to a 4-3? If you know football then you would know that Mike Singletary and Rob Ryan run the 3-4 defense.

An any great coach will tell you that the job of a coach is to adjust to the talent he has. To put players in a position to succeed, to build the system around what you have and most of all be a teacher. If it were up to me I would of ran the 4-3 for atleast this year until we got more pieces that fit the 3-4.

The NFL is a RESULTS driven business. And right now his results stink. He can want to run "his system" all he wants but I gurantee you that if doesnt get results in the next 2 years then him and his "system" will be out of here.

We didnt have to be 6-10 this year, ofcourse he wants you to think that so the pressure is off of him and he can just say "hey i had a bad team what did you expect", but the truth is this year we underachieved and last year we underachieved again this year. Both years we underachieved due to coaching. If he would of made better coaching/system and personnel decisions then we would of had a better record this year.

We underacheived because we have a lot of players on our team that are accustomed to loosing--flat out. Loosers. Fire in their belly's? Sure. Winners? No. Gibbs in his second stint didn't do this organization any favors by kissing snyders behind and being wishy washy in the direction he wanted to take this team. If he had and done things the right way, we wouldn't be in this position. This is how you change things, you pull your sack out and you make tough decision without caring how it's going to look or be perceived by ownership, who frankly aren't qualified to make football decisions. At some point you have to point your fingers at personnel as to why we've been loosing for 9 out of the last 11 years. How can we say it's coaching? we've had all kinds of em. This regime is making a clear effort to building a long term winner, not a maybe this year or maybe next year winner. You think if we would have run a 4-3 this year it would have made a difference??? Why run it when you know your going to change. I'm not sure why there is so much distrust in a guy like Shanahan. He's a proven winner and he's got the drive and detrmination, and respect from players to turn this thing around. Not only that but, contrary to what most people think, he got a pretty damn good draft record. Brandon Marshall, eddie Royal, Torrain, Terrel Davis, countless RB's. I don't get it. He is the opposite of what we've been doing...That's a good thing.

[hitmandm]

I was not a fan of the Shanny hiring. I got lambasted last year, and I still dont think he is a good fit. But the truth is, he is wayyyyy better than anyone that will come here (Cowher and others will not) so I am content he does have the ability to take us far, although he is pretty falliable. We can give Shanny a benefit of the doubt because he has won it all.

DMAC was never going to be a success because he has never won it all. For all we know Philly might have 2-4 SBs if dumb fatty dirt thrower wasnt their QB for so long. He is lazy, slow, dumb and inaccurate- and his one strength, classiness, doesnt win football games. The Philly fans knew it, Reid knew it, the other teams that passed on a trade last year knew it, Limbaugh knew it and now, after ignoring all the evidence and two high picks later, we know it.

[tdigle]

I'm so used to failure and mediocrity by now that I have no hopes for this team when opening day rolls around. On the plus side, this has rid me of any expectations (and thus any impatience). I say let Shanahan do his thing. I'd rather see him fail spectacularly in his attempt to turn this team around than have Snyder fire him over results that don't come quick enough.

[thomasroane]

So what does McNabb do well?

He took care of the mole problem at Fed Ex!

[ChillSkinzFan84]

Well, Shanny has no doubt made some mistakes. But honestly, bringing in Willie Parker and LJ for peanuts as opposed to millions was actually the first sign that we had actual professionals running the show as opposed to glorified marketing machines disguised as NFL executives. Galloway was an awful decision in retrospect, be the guy runs meticulous routes and he practices his arse of with a monsterous work ethic. I think the organization was pretty surprised that his hands ended up sucking. Ususally with players of that age it's speed and agility, but as we saw he was open often and dropped balls--hence he got canned. No sympathy from me here on ARE--he was a debacle. a catch or two every other game and a negative punt return average. I had seen enough. Thomas, a cocky young receiver with no work ethic and no production. You can be an a-hole if you produce. But if your not producing and your an a-hole--pink slip. I got no problem with that either. He may or may not have helped us a little, but I saw guys like Chris Cooley and Santana Moss dropping balls this season that would have resulted in touchdowns--Thomas being on the roster doesn't change that one bit...Shanny drafted Torrain for a reason so I'm not about to call him lucky. RTe was on our practice squad and stepped up when CP went down and LJ got released. Great story.

In my opinion your looking at it all thru rose colered glasses. He doesnt get credit for signing Johnson and Parker to low money deals. Nobody in the league including Vinny would of paid them big money. The only reason they were signed was because of their big names. Thats why Johnson made the team over Torrain. The fact that he drafted Torrain brought him here and cut him to keep Johnson speaks to my point of him making a mistake. Whether you want to admit it or not he did get lucky that no other team signed Torrain. You really cant dispute that and saying that he drafted him certainly doesnt dispute it.

Like I said i didnt like Randle el either but if you dont think he could of been more productive than williams or galloway then your definately looking thru rose colored glasses. The same goes for Thomas. If you dont think that a 6'1 215 pound reciever would of helped more than Galloway and Williams who produced NOTHING. When did Shanny ever give Thomas a chance to prove himself? In the preseason he got a td on the same play that Armstrong caught that ball on and that was one of his few chances to prove something. Thomas best game was better than Armstongs best game. And Armstrong is essentially the same reciever that Randle El was. a couple of catches a game and nothing more. The only difference is that Armstrong was asked to run deeper routes...thats it.

Im not saying that Thomas is a good player but my problem is that shanny didnt give him a chance to see what he is. What would of it hurt to keep Thomas over Williams? Thomas is better on special teams so the only logical conclusion is that Shanny just didnt like him for whatever reason. You say no work ethic but the players at redskins park say different. You say no production but like I said when was he really given a chance? And not only me but Jerry Gray said the same thing at the end of last year.

Kelly Johnson asked Gray whats the difference between Thomas as Desean Jackson and he answer was opportunity. He said how can you produce and show what you can do if your not given an opportunity to it? He said you cant do it from the sidelins or on the inactive list. And thats COACH at redskins park everyday seeing what Thomas can do saying that...not just some random fan but a coach.If Thomas was good enough to be on the Colts and Giants team then I think he was good enough to be on our roster...especially when 2 of the OLD recievers(who you know had no future with the team) produced nothing. This was the perfect season to see if he could play or not being in a real system and having a legit QB. If he doesnt produce (in his third year when most recievers start to show promise) then cut him...it couldnt of hurt us. Seeing that the 2 old recievers he kept over Thomas produced nothing for this team I believe it was a roster mistake that Shanny made. And you cant say that the lack of playmakers at recievers didnt hurt us this year. Thats why we have to draft one now. TO BE CLEAR IM NOT SAYING CUTTING THOMAS WAS A MISTAKE BECAUSE HE'S A GREAT PLAYER BUT BECAUSE WE DIDNT TAKE THE OPPRTUNITY TO SEE WHAT HE COULD DO AND BECAUSE THE RECIEVERS HE KEPT WERE OLD AND SORRY WITH NO UPSIDE. Also i think putting Kelly on IR was a mistake because he was healthy and practicing the last half of the season and his size could of helped us.

And you saying that Torrain went in when CP got hurt is speaking to my point when I said what would of happened if Torrain got picked up by another team when Shanny cut him? It was a bad decision to cut him and he got lucky that he was not picked up off of waivers.

If you dont think that these were mistakes that Shanny made then in my opnion your looking thru rose colered glasses

---------- Post added January-10th-2011 at 04:10 PM ----------


So what does McNabb do well?

Be real with yourself. If McNabb does nothing well then why is he a boarderline hall of famer and why did the genius Shanahan give up 2 picks to get him? Answer that for me

[thomasroane]

Be real with yourself. If McNabb does nothing well then why is he a boarderline hall of famer and why did the genius Shanahan give up 2 picks to get him? Answer that for me

Philly is a pass first system and will never win a Super Bowl that way. The only QB that has a chance is Tom Brady and that style didn't work vs the Giants and may not work this year. The pro bowl is a joke and Redskins fans proved it to puke fans by stuffing the ballots a couple years ago. It's a popularity contest. The ultimate measurement for a QB's greatness is Super Bowls. That's it.

Donovon had the luxury of being in a pass happy offense with one of the greatest receiving RB's in the history of the game. He often got 5 times the credit in yardage for a 3 yard pass. He was able to ad lib when he was athletic until someone opened up. But he never made the transition to reading defenses and getting the ball out quickly. Shannahan believed he was that high character guy everyone else thought he was and would buy in to what they were trying to do. We were all fooled. Cause Donovon never bought in and if a QB that hasn't started a game in two years can be more productive and (without the benefit of having never played a regular season game in that system) can out produce him then I'd consider that case closed. Donovon expected Shanny to run Philly's system. A system by the way that has NEVER won a Super Bowl and probably never will.

[ChillSkinzFan84]

We underacheived because we have a lot of players on our team that are accustomed to loosing--flat out. Loosers. Fire in their belly's? Sure. Winners? No. Gibbs in his second stint didn't do this organization any favors by kissing snyders behind and being wishy washy in the direction he wanted to take this team. If he had and done things the right way, we wouldn't be in this position. This is how you change things, you pull your sack out and you make tough decision without caring how it's going to look or be perceived by ownership, who frankly aren't qualified to make football decisions. At some point you have to point your fingers at personnel as to why we've been loosing for 9 out of the last 11 years. How can we say it's coaching? we've had all kinds of em. This regime is making a clear effort to building a long term winner, not a maybe this year or maybe next year winner. You think if we would have run a 4-3 this year it would have made a difference??? Why run it when you know your going to change. I'm not sure why there is so much distrust in a guy like Shanahan. He's a proven winner and he's got the drive and detrmination, and respect from players to turn this thing around. Not only that but, contrary to what most people think, he got a pretty damn good draft record. Brandon Marshall, eddie Royal, Torrain, Terrel Davis, countless RB's. I don't get it. He is the opposite of what we've been doing...That's a good thing.

I agree that we have a bunch of losers on this team, I said that back in 05. But you only have to look to the 08 season to see how coaching affected the season. When Zorn was aggressive, unpredictable, and threw the ball deep we were 6-2. When he became Conservative, predictable, only throwing short passes and slamming Portis into a brick wall against 8-9 in the box we were 2-6. Thats why I said before the 09 season that the season would all come down to coaching...if Zorn is conservative like 2nd half of 08 season the we would lose. And thats what happened.

As for the 4-3 I do think it would of helped us if we let Haynesworth do his thing and be dissruptive and let Orakpo play DE. I think we would of had a better defense if we had done that. And Shannahan was fired because of his job as GM. You do know that right?

And a coach that doesnt care about his owner is a coach that gets fired. All coaches(even the great ones) pay respect to their owners...because the owner is the boss. Its that simple

[thomasroane]

I agree that we have a bunch of losers on this team, I said that back in 05. But you only have to look to the 08 season to see how coaching affected the season. When Zorn was aggressive, unpredictable, and threw the ball deep we were 6-2. When he became Conservative, predictable, only throwing short passes and slamming Portis into a brick wall against 8-9 in the box we were 2-6. Thats why I said before the 09 season that the season would all come down to coaching...if Zorn is conservative like 2nd half of 08 season the we would lose. And thats what happened.

As for the 4-3 I do think it would of helped us if we let Haynesworth do his thing and be dissruptive and let Orakpo play DE. I think we would of had a better defense if we had done that. And Shannahan was fired because of his job as GM. You do know that right?

And a coach that doesnt care about his owner is a coach that gets fired. All coaches(even the great ones) pay respect to their owners...because the owner is the boss. Its that simple

Three well respected coaches now (Jeff Fisher, Greg Blache and Haz) have yet to get Fat Ass to play up to his talent level for an entire season. What makes you think ANY coach could do better?

[ChillSkinzFan84]

Philly is a pass first system and will never win a Super Bowl that way. The only QB that has a chance is Tom Brady and that style didn't work vs the Giants and may not work this year. The pro bowl is a joke and Redskins fans proved it to puke fans by stuffing the ballots a couple years ago. It's a popularity contest. The ultimate measurement for a QB's greatness is Super Bowls. That's it.

Donovon had the luxury of being in a pass happy offense with one of the greatest receiving RB's in the history of the game. He often got 5 times the credit in yardage for a 3 yard pass. He was able to ad lib when he was athletic until someone opened up. But he never made the transition to reading defenses and getting the ball out quickly. Shannahan believed he was that high character guy everyone else thought he was and would buy in to what they were trying to do. We were all fooled. Cause Donovon never bought in and if a QB that hasn't started a game in two years can be more productive and (without the benefit of having never played a regular season game in that system) can out produce him then I'd consider that case closed. Donovon expected Shanny to run Philly's system. A system by the way that has NEVER won a Super Bowl and probably never will.

No matter how many ways you try to spin it Donovan is a good player. And the whole NFL knows that. If he was a bum then he wouldnt of been able to put up those stats and win the amount of games he did. Period. Philly never won a championship because they had the worst recieving corps in the league his whole time there. The one year they get a legit WR they go to the superbowl. You think thats a coinsedence?

Its funny that you say Grossman outplayed McNabb because Grossman got most of his stats and some touchdowns on the same play that you used to say McNabb shouldnt get credit...the screen pass. Which we ran more of to help beat the blitz once Rex started playing. And thats what McNabb asked for not the philly offense. Extremeskins favorite player Anthony Armstrong even said that was the case. Smells like a contridiction to me

[Skinzfever2010]

In my opinion your looking at it all thru rose colered glasses. He doesnt get credit for signing Johnson and Parker to low money deals. Nobody in the league including Vinny would of paid them big money. The only reason they were signed was because of their big names. Thats why Johnson made the team over Torrain. The fact that he drafted Torrain brought him here and cut him to keep Johnson speaks to my point of him making a mistake. Whether you want to admit it or not he did get lucky that no other team signed Torrain. You really cant dispute that and saying that he drafted him certainly doesnt dispute it.

Like I said i didnt like Randle el either but if you dont think he could of been more productive than williams or galloway then your definately looking thru rose colored glasses. The same goes for Thomas. If you dont think that a 6'1 215 pound reciever would of helped more than Galloway and Williams who produced NOTHING. When did Shanny ever give Thomas a chance to prove himself? In the preseason he got a td on the same play that Armstrong caught that ball on and that was one of his few chances to prove something. Thomas best game was better than Armstongs best game. And Armstrong is essentially the same reciever that Randle El was. a couple of catches a game and nothing more. The only difference is that Armstrong was asked to run deeper routes...thats it.

Im not saying that Thomas is a good player but my problem is that shanny didnt give him a chance to see what he is. What would of it hurt to keep Thomas over Williams? Thomas is better on special teams so the only logical conclusion is that Shanny just didnt like him for whatever reason. You say no work ethic but the players at redskins park say different. You say no production but like I said when was he really given a chance? And not only me but Jerry Gray said the same thing at the end of last year.

Kelly Johnson asked Gray whats the difference between Thomas as Desean Jackson and he answer was opportunity. He said how can you produce and show what you can do if your not given an opportunity to it? He said you cant do it from the sidelins or on the inactive list. And thats COACH at redskins park everyday seeing what Thomas can do saying that...not just some random fan but a coach.If Thomas was good enough to be on the Colts and Giants team then I think he was good enough to be on our roster...especially when 2 of the OLD recievers(who you know had no future with the team) produced nothing. This was the perfect season to see if he could play or not being in a real system and having a legit QB. If he doesnt produce (in his third year when most recievers start to show promise) then cut him...it couldnt of hurt us. Seeing that the 2 old recievers he kept over Thomas produced nothing for this team I believe it was a roster mistake that Shanny made. And you cant say that the lack of playmakers at recievers didnt hurt us this year. Thats why we have to draft one now. TO BE CLEAR IM NOT SAYING CUTTING THOMAS WAS A MISTAKE BECAUSE HE'S A GREAT PLAYER BUT BECAUSE WE DIDNT TAKE THE OPPRTUNITY TO SEE WHAT HE COULD DO AND BECAUSE THE RECIEVERS HE KEPT WERE OLD AND SORRY WITH NO UPSIDE. Also i think putting Kelly on IR was a mistake because he was healthy and practicing the last half of the season and his size could of helped us.

And you saying that Torrain went in when CP got hurt is speaking to my point when I said what would of happened if Torrain got picked up by another team when Shanny cut him? It was a bad decision to cut him and he got lucky that he was not picked up off of waivers.

If you dont think that these were mistakes that Shanny made then in my opnion your looking thru rose colered glasses

---------- Post added January-10th-2011 at 04:10 PM ----------



Be real with yourself. If McNabb does nothing well then why is he a boarderline hall of famer and why did the genius Shanahan give up 2 picks to get him? Answer that for me

I literally spent all year explaining and expressing this same view. You couldn't have said it better. ShanaAllen put themselves under the microscope with questionable/dumb move after questionable/dumb move.

1. win now was never necessary (Trading two picks, the McNabb Hope/change campaign)

2. The 3-4 in year one with no 3-4 players (outside of LaRon). lets be real here, had we drafted a 3-4 OLB or NT maybe we could have tried it in year one with hopes that everyone catches on by year 2 BUT our staff destroyed our only strength stemming back from Marvin Lewis & Greg Williams.

3. The "old ass" WR debacle. Antwan Randel would have been great filler for another year (should have restructured his deal and kept him). Better VET presence in the locker room/ better player than Galloway (Antwan has been to the promise land and won it, Galloway ****ing sucks). Devin Thomas should have stayed on as filler at WR and KR on teams. Roydell sucks. Still in shock we didn't pick up a WR that could have been more productive for a year.

4. He lucked out with Torain. Anyone that isn't sipping the CKool-Aid will admit that. (See Banks as well).


However, through all of his mistakes and contradictions in year one we are a better team than we were in 09. We regressed from 2007 & 2008 but we may be headed in the right direction. It was only year 1.

SideBar: For all his(Mike Shanahan) **** ups he made that 6th pick in 2007 draft worth everything. He drafted one hell of a Tackle in T.Williams, and found a stud on Teams. I don't know if you can build a team around a S, PR, & T, but its a start lol.

[ChillSkinzFan84]

Three well respected coaches now (Jeff Fisher, Greg Blache and Haz) have yet to get Fat Ass to play up to his talent level for an entire season. What makes you think ANY coach could do better?

Al was known as the best and most dominant defensive player in the league when under Fisher. So your wrong about that. Blache is an idiot who made Orakpo an outside linebacker and told Al and the rest of the dline to not get upfield and get pressure but to hold their position at the line of scrimmage...and even while doing that Al still put up Pro Bowl numbers (go head check them yourself compared to Kevin Williams and Jay Ratliff)...so again im not getting your logic here.

Thats why I always tell you people to stop taking everything the media says as gospel. Use your own eyes and own brain. If you watched then you would know that he played well in 09. Oh yea in 09 we also had the best short yardage and goal-line defense in the NFL...but I guess Al had nothing to do with that right? SMH

[Skinzfever2010]

Al was known as the best and most dominant defensive player in the league when under Fisher. So your wrong about that. Blache is an idiot who made Orakpo an outside linebacker and told Al and the rest of the dline to not get upfield and get pressure but to hold their position at the line of scrimmage...and even while doing that Al still put up Pro Bowl numbers (go head check them yourself compared to Kevin Williams and Jay Ratliff)...so again im not getting your logic here.

Thats why I always tell you people to stop taking everything the media says as gospel. Use your own eyes and own brain. If you watched then you would know that he played well in 09. Oh yea in 09 we also had the best short yardage and goal-line defense in the NFL...but I guess Al had nothing to do with that right? SMH

Blache also kept LaRon at FS and tried to call him his little Angel. Blache was indeed a dumb ass.

[Bang]

For you guys advocating two year shots for every coach,, get used to continuing to be a loser.

Unreasonable expectations lead to frustrated fans, and if they have their say, leads to more losing with the next guy.

It's called the coaching carousel, and on that particular merry go round there is NO brass ring. You just keep spinning.

It takes time, especially when a team is in the shape this one was in.

Here's some homework for you impatient guys.
Go take a look at the teams in the league with the most coaching turnover in the last ten years, and then look at their records.

Then look at the teams who give a philosophy a chance to work and their coaches stick for more than 2 seasons, and what their records have been.

Or don't. You already know what you're going to find anyway.

~Bang

[Skinzfever2010]

For you guys advocating two year shots for every coach,, get used to continuing to be a loser.

Unreasonable expectations lead to frustrated fans, and if they have their say, leads to more losing with the next guy.

It's called the coaching carousel, and on that particular merry go round there is NO brass ring. You just keep spinning.

It takes time, especially when a team is in the shape this one was in.

Here's some homework for you impatient guys.
Go take a look at the teams in the league with the most coaching turnover in the last ten years, and then look at their records.

Then look at the teams who give a philosophy a chance to work and their coaches stick for more than 2 seasons, and what their records have been.

Or don't. You already know what you're going to find anyway.

~Bang

The great voice of reason. You never fail. Exactly why I summed it all up to "it was just one year". Having detached from the season a bit and focusing more on the the bigger picture we are better than we were in 09 and headed in a different (good, bad, ugly yet to be determined) direction.

I seriously want to be at least 8-8 in year 2.

[ChillSkinzFan84]

I literally spent all year explaining and expressing this same view. You couldn't have said it better. ShanaAllen put themselves under the microscope with questionable/dumb move after questionable/dumb move.

1. win now was never necessary (Trading two picks, the McNabb Hope/change campaign)

2. The 3-4 in year one with no 3-4 players (outside of LaRon). lets be real here, had we drafted a 3-4 OLB or NT maybe we could have tried it in year one with hopes that everyone catches on by year 2 BUT our staff destroyed our only strength stemming back from Marvin Lewis & Greg Williams.

3. The "old ass" WR debacle. Antwan Randel would have been great filler for another year (should have restructured his deal and kept him). Better VET presence in the locker room/ better player than Galloway (Antwan has been to the promise land and won it, Galloway ****ing sucks). Devin Thomas should have stayed on as filler at WR and KR on teams. Roydell sucks. Still in shock we didn't pick up a WR that could have been more productive for a year.

4. He lucked out with Torain. Anyone that isn't sipping the CKool-Aid will admit that. (See Banks as well).


However, through all of his mistakes and contradictions in year one we are a better team than we were in 09. We regressed from 2007 & 2008 but we may be headed in the right direction. It was only year 1.

SideBar: For all his(Mike Shanahan) **** ups he made that 6th pick in 2007 draft worth everything. He drafted one hell of a Tackle in T.Williams, and found a stud on Teams. I don't know if you can build a team around a S, PR, & T, but its a start lol.

lol I feel you man we are in better shape. And we will be good to go if he learns from his mistakes...thats all im hoping for. But if the media and fans dont hold him accountable then he will never have to acknowledge the mistakes and wont feel a need to change. And the old wr debacle is just mind blowing to me. I was looking forward to seeing what we had in Thomas this year. But for Shanny to cut him for no reason and keep Galloway and Williams was just like I said mind blowing to me. And now people just jump all over Thomas and act like better recievers wouldnt of helped us this year. I just dont get it

---------- Post added January-10th-2011 at 04:54 PM ----------


Blache also kept LaRon at FS and tried to call him his little Angel. Blache was indeed a dumb ass.

Another good point that I forgot to think about. I was screaming for us to move LaRon to SS for years now. Kareem Moore really let me down this year though. He used to be a big hitter and now he just flops and misses. It seems like he was never the same after the knee injury in preseason. I hope he gets back to form though.

[TheLongshot]

For you guys advocating two year shots for every coach,, get used to continuing to be a loser.

Unreasonable expectations lead to frustrated fans, and if they have their say, leads to more losing with the next guy.

It's called the coaching carousel, and on that particular merry go round there is NO brass ring. You just keep spinning.

It takes time, especially when a team is in the shape this one was in.

Here's some homework for you impatient guys.
Go take a look at the teams in the league with the most coaching turnover in the last ten years, and then look at their records.

Then look at the teams who give a philosophy a chance to work and their coaches stick for more than 2 seasons, and what their records have been.

Or don't. You already know what you're going to find anyway.

~Bang

You'd think after a decade of having coaches last an average of 2 years that fans would learn that it is one of the big reasons why we haven't been very good.

While I wasn't a big fan of the Shanahan hire, or with some of his decisions, I know that this team needs to stick with some plan for longer than two years and whoever was hired for the job should be someone we stick with for the long-term.

[Skinzfever2010]

lol I feel you man we are in better shape. And we will be good to go if he learns from his mistakes...thats all im hoping for. But if the media and fans dont hold him accountable then he will never have to acknowledge the mistakes and wont feel a need to change. And the old wr debacle is just mind blowing to me. I was looking forward to seeing what we had in Thomas this year. But for Shanny to cut him for no reason and keep Galloway and Williams was just like I said mind blowing to me. And now people just jump all over Thomas and act like better recievers wouldnt of helped us this year. I just dont get it

The WR debacle left me very frustrated as well. If you search my posts during the season you will see just how "upset" I was. I mean if we were going to throw a 2nd rounder away for Old ass McNabb why not just keep Campbell and throw it away (for then) Denver Bronco WR Brandon Marshall.

Are we headed in the right direction ?

Personally, I have never seen a coach **** up so much (in Washington) in year one and keep his job. Not to mention still keep the faith from his players. Therefore, I would have to say yes. We have to be headed in the right direction. We add a new G, C, and two WR's to the offense and a NT, OLB, FS to the defense we should be a solid 8-8 next year.

Technically,

Nope. Its really yet to be determined. Will we play up/down to the opposing teams week in and week out or will we finally develop some real consistency?

What will our playoff record be if he start getting into the tournament?

Will we ever find a franchise QB post Brad Johnson?

Still some real questions that need to be answered by time & the new administration.

From one young fan to another HAIL!

[ChillSkinzFan84]

For you guys advocating two year shots for every coach,, get used to continuing to be a loser.

Unreasonable expectations lead to frustrated fans, and if they have their say, leads to more losing with the next guy.

It's called the coaching carousel, and on that particular merry go round there is NO brass ring. You just keep spinning.

It takes time, especially when a team is in the shape this one was in.

Here's some homework for you impatient guys.
Go take a look at the teams in the league with the most coaching turnover in the last ten years, and then look at their records.

Then look at the teams who give a philosophy a chance to work and their coaches stick for more than 2 seasons, and what their records have been.

Or don't. You already know what you're going to find anyway.

~Bang


I dont think we should fire Shanny right now, but I do have a problem with him having all the player personnel power. But using your logic i guess you wanted to give Jim Zorn another 2 years to build his system here in DC? Sometimes the writings on the wall

[Bang]

lol I feel you man we are in better shape. And we will be good to go if he learns from his mistakes...thats all im hoping for. But if the media and fans dont hold him accountable then he will never have to acknowledge the mistakes and wont feel a need to change. And the old wr debacle is just mind blowing to me. I was looking forward to seeing what we had in Thomas this year. But for Shanny to cut him for no reason and keep Galloway and Williams was just like I said mind blowing to me. And now people just jump all over Thomas and act like better recievers wouldnt of helped us this year. I just dont get it

---------- Post added January-10th-2011 at 04:54 PM ----------



Another good point that I forgot to think about. I was screaming for us to move LaRon to SS for years now. Kareem Moore really let me down this year though. He used to be a big hitter and now he just flops and misses. It seems like he was never the same after the knee injury in preseason. I hope he gets back to form though.

Assuming Shanahan had no reason for cutting Thomas ignores the fact that he did so after seeing him in every practice, every meeting, every game, and knew everything about the player available to him. He also did it with serious holes in our WR corps, a corps DT couldn't crack all spring and summer.
You don't have that luxury, even if you think you do.
You were looking forward to what you saw out of Thomas last year. Based on what a football professional saw this year, that wasn't enough.
Nevermind Carolina also cut him, and they haven't got a single wide receiver in that town that didn't get hurt this year.


It's like this, if you don't take our coach's word for it, take those others. Fox has been a Super Bowl, not like he's clueless, and could't find a place for him on a team with no receivers. Same with the McNabb flap. If you don't believe Shanahan, believe Reid.

It's not "blind faith" to understand that you lack knowledge of the situation that they have. It's not "blind faith" to measure his reactions against other coaches to see if they make more sense.

However, what IS blind faith is assuming from our once-a-week seat in the stands or on our sofa that we CAN see more than them, and that we know more than them when moves happen that make no sense to us.

Andy Reid always cuts players that people scratch their heads over. Bill bellichek does too. Team leaders, guys who can play.. they think nothing of moving them along if they see something that doesn't sit well with them. And they're right WAY more often than they're wrong.

Accountability is a strangve beast. In some people's minds that means that we expect results in a timely fashion. Me, I expect to be respectably over .500 starting in 2012, and never looking back from there. Next year I expect some more growing pains, and a little more clarity.

I think he's learned from his mistakes.. His escapades with McNabb pretty much show me that. Lots of guys would never admit that mistake, and would never make moves to move past it. In the past he hasn't shown much desire to do that,,, but I also think that his decision is also based in the fact that he's not ensconced here, and he's got to earn his keep.

We can all gas about our opinions, but no matter how much all of us think we know, we all hit that wall where our knowledge ends due to lack of personal experience. And where that ends, even among the most knowledgeable fan, the coach's picks up. Even the worst coaches.

~Bang

[Skinzfever2010]

I dont think we should fire Shanny right now, but I do have a problem with him having all the player personnel power. But using your logic i guess you wanted to give Jim Zorn another 2 years to build his system here in DC? Sometimes the writings on the wall


lol Now you know Jim Zorn shouldn't have even been given the opportunity to be a head coach. Hell even Jim knew it. We should have promoted G.Williams as Coach Gibbs wanted all along.

Greg would have rebuilt the D-lines and O-lines.

He would have found a way to rational way to get rid of Jason Campbell.

LaRon would have never been taking silly angles at opposing players

Hindsight is beautiful. Jim is the playoffs, his QB is nice. He turned transformed Jason Campbell & Matt Hasselback into solid QB's. I would say he is living the life post all the bull **** he had to deal with here.

[SkinsFTW]

One was seeing Dan Snyder walking around red faced and looking quite upset. He looked frustrated at the loss, the 6-10 season, yadda yadda.


I wish the guy would just stay out of the locker room. I'm sure the players don't get more motivated to win when they see the little midget owner running around looking like he's about to throw a temper tantrum.

[ChillSkinzFan84]

The WR debacle left me very frustrated as well. If you search my posts during the season you will see just how "upset" I was. I mean if we were going to throw a 2nd rounder away for Old ass McNabb why not just keep Campbell and throw it away (for then) Denver Bronco WR Brandon Marshall.

Are we headed in the right direction ?

Personally, I have never seen a coach **** up so much (in Washington) in year one and keep his job. Not to mention still keep the faith from his players. Therefore, I would have to say yes. We have to be headed in the right direction. We add a new G, C, and two WR's to the offense and a NT, OLB, FS to the defense we should be a solid 8-8 next year.

Technically,

Nope. Its really yet to be determined. Will we play up/down to the opposing teams week in and week out or will we finally develop some real consistency?

What will our playoff record be if he start getting into the tournament?

Will we ever find a franchise QB post Brad Johnson?

Still some real questions that need to be answered by time & the new administration.

From one young fan to another HAIL!

Ive been saying the same thing. I said we should keep JC even after we traded for McNabb because once we trade JC that means that we HAVE to draft a young qb. And thats not something I really like to do because its such a crapshoot and you hav to wait a few years to find out if he can play or not.

And I agree if this were any other coach he would of been fired for this soap opera that we were this year.

I was also looking to see if we played up or down to our competition. Ive been complaining about for about the past 10 years or so. And thats what dissapointed me about Shanny this year. He didnt get the team to play consistently at one level. I feel that we should have a standard level of play no matter who we play. If that team cant play up to our level then sorry for them we'll just kick their *****, if they do then it will just be one hell of a game, but we should have a standard regardless.

With the Deep draft and free agency pool we should be able to fill some holes and be like you said around 8-8 next year. If we can get to a standard level of play then we have a chance to be better. If not then it will be the same up and down crap that we have been seeing.

[TheLongshot]

Nevermind Carolina also cut him, and they haven't got a single wide receiver in that town that didn't get hurt this year.

Personally, hard to hold that against him when their WRs were getting healthy and they had bigger fish to fry. Fact is, young players who change teams often don't have much of an impact unless they are forced to play. (See: Andre Brown)

I don't know if Thomas forced Shanahan's hand or not in this. In any case, we won't really know where he stands until he has had a full offseason with another team.

[Skinzfever2010]

Ive been saying the same thing. I said we should keep JC even after we traded for McNabb because once we trade JC that means that we HAVE to draft a young qb. And thats not something I really like to do because its such a crapshoot and you hav to wait a few years to find out if he can play or not.

And I agree if this were any other coach he would of been fired for this soap opera that we were this year.

I was also looking to see if we played up or down to our competition. Ive been complaining about for about the past 10 years or so. And thats what dissapointed me about Shanny this year. He didnt get the team to play consistently at one level. I feel that we should have a standard level of play no matter who we play. If that team cant play up to our level then sorry for them we'll just kick their *****, if they do then it will just be one hell of a game, but we should have a standard regardless.

With the Deep draft and free agency pool we should be able to fill some holes and be like you said around 8-8 next year. If we can get to a standard level of play then we have a chance to be better. If not then it will be the same up and down crap that we have been seeing.

Oh yeah. Bang has been preaching it (once I detached from the circus year I could decipher what he was trying to tell me) The Free agency pool & Draft are very deep. Our QB may not be out there this year but we have so many other holes it doesn't matter.

An 8-8, 2011 campaign with a team that doesn't play up/down against its opponent every week would be great. It would feel good. I want to see 110% effort every night. The same way we played Dallas (each time), Indy, Philly (first time) Green Bay every damn week.

I also want to beat the Giants. Coach Gibbs knew how to do it. I'm sure Shanny can figure it out as well.

Your good convo bro lol

Hail!

[Painkiller]

Personally for me, if Shanahan leaves by any other means other than he wants to retire from coaching after several successful years with the Redskins, I'm done with this team with Snyder as owner. I don't care if we win less games next year, which is entirely possible. Compare this roster to the Phallus, Eagles, and Giants rosters, and we don't even come close talent wise yet. I am fully prepared for another 5 to 7 win season again next year. Anybody who expects better than that, is not facing the reality of the situation. This team is not ready to make a run, and it won't be for at least one more season.

I really don't know if I would survive another idiotic move like the Marty firing.

P-A-T-I-E-N-C-E

[tex]

Allen and Shanahan should be allowed to stay so they can continue to build on what they've started. Dan and Vinny 1.0, 2.0, Hot lips Spurrier, Zorn, Bingo play caller, free agent bromances, etc., etc., have taken a terrible toll from these Redskins over many years. They now, finally, have some real pros leading the way and that ain't bad.

FWIW here is one fan that wants Allen and Coach Shanahan to stay.

[redskins55]

YES!!! Best news I've heard all day!! For those that would stop being Skins fans I say, "Good riddance dont let the door hit ya on the way OUT!! If Shanny and Co dont produce next year then they should be let go plain and simple!! In todays NFL you have to win today and Shanahan didnt do it his last years in Denver( reaon why he was fired!) and he certainly aint doing it now. This year has been totally FUBAR!!

---------- Post added January-10th-2011 at 01:10 PM ----------

So Shanny gets a 2-3 year pass while a future hall-of-fame QB gets about 1/2 year to run a NEW system to perfection?! Sounds like a genius head coach we got here!


BOOM! There it is!

If Gibbs would've gone 6-10 in his second year he would've received one more year to get it right based off the fact that he was Joe Gibbs a Redskins legend. But Shanahan is just another coach. And if any of you want to keep him based off his resume from 10 years ago then your NUTTS! He should be evaluated on his accomplishments and progress next season and if there is none, then he should be dealt with.
And all of you that are expecting progress from last year you should temper your expectations big time cause Shanahan set us up to start over this year instead of starting over last year. So basically he's lost a year with mismanagement, giving away draft picks, neglecting youth and wasted trades. Expect us to be worse if he truly wants to infuse the team with youth as he stated. He's a season late and 4 traded draft picks short of that approach.

Great post man and dont listen to some of these ES folks who cant see 2 feet in front of their face about what today's NFL is all about! Win now or find someone who will!

[charles mannley]

Be real with yourself. If McNabb does nothing well then why is he a boarderline hall of famer and why did the genius Shanahan give up 2 picks to get him? Answer that for me

First off you didn't answer my question.

McNabb has not shown that he can do anything good this year. He's lazy, noncompetitive, inaccurate, throws int's at the end of games, and for how old he is still doesn't know how to get rid of the ball quickly. Considering Manning and Brady as HOFers I wouldn't mention McNabb in the same breath as those guys. This season showed he benefitted from Philly's system, and all those years in Philly they had one of the best defenses in the league.

I liked McNabb when we traded for him, but you need to be real he sucks.

[seriously]

There could very well be an "issue" and for the whole McNabb situation it could very well be...

Regardless, I honestly do not expect anything substantial out of our next season other than slight improvements- maybe a couple more wins. If Snyder fires either after next year I am done with this franchise until we get another owner. Both have proven to be capable elsewhere and with less "support" be it financially or with the fanbase.

[ChillSkinzFan84]

Assuming Shanahan had no reason for cutting Thomas ignores the fact that he did so after seeing him in every practice, every meeting, every game, and knew everything about the player available to him. He also did it with serious holes in our WR corps, a corps DT couldn't crack all spring and summer.
You don't have that luxury, even if you think you do.
You were looking forward to what you saw out of Thomas last year. Based on what a football professional saw this year, that wasn't enough.
Nevermind Carolina also cut him, and they haven't got a single wide receiver in that town that didn't get hurt this year.


It's like this, if you don't take our coach's word for it, take those others. Fox has been a Super Bowl, not like he's clueless, and could't find a place for him on a team with no receivers. Same with the McNabb flap. If you don't believe Shanahan, believe Reid.

It's not "blind faith" to understand that you lack knowledge of the situation that they have. It's not "blind faith" to measure his reactions against other coaches to see if they make more sense.

However, what IS blind faith is assuming from our once-a-week seat in the stands or on our sofa that we CAN see more than them, and that we know more than them when moves happen that make no sense to us.

Andy Reid always cuts players that people scratch their heads over. Bill bellichek does too. Team leaders, guys who can play.. they think nothing of moving them along if they see something that doesn't sit well with them. And they're right WAY more often than they're wrong.

Accountability is a strangve beast. In some people's minds that means that we expect results in a timely fashion. Me, I expect to be respectably over .500 starting in 2012, and never looking back from there. Next year I expect some more growing pains, and a little more clarity.

I think he's learned from his mistakes.. His escapades with McNabb pretty much show me that. Lots of guys would never admit that mistake, and would never make moves to move past it. In the past he hasn't shown much desire to do that,,, but I also think that his decision is also based in the fact that he's not ensconced here, and he's got to earn his keep.

We can all gas about our opinions, but no matter how much all of us think we know, we all hit that wall where our knowledge ends due to lack of personal experience. And where that ends, even among the most knowledgeable fan, the coach's picks up. Even the worst coaches.

~Bang

And your the typical fan that thinks the coach knows best just because he's the coach. I guess coaches never make mistakes huh? I guess they're not human and dont hold personal grudges against players for whatever reason. No he's the coach and he always makes the right choice becaue he's there everyday. Take that BS somewhere eles. If this was a perfect world then maybe I would buy it.
Ive played sports I know how the game goes, Ive seen good players not get time because the coach had a personal problem with them...and given the fact that I already knew Shannahan had a huge ego exscuse me for not giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Just ignore the fact that we all saw Thomas have good games and show some promise. Ignore the fact that other players said how good he was and his potential, this year Randle El said that he sees Thomas as a Anquan Bolden type and he didnt unerstand why he cant get a chance. And was on the field with him, in the study room with him for 2 years...but lets just ignore that because Shannahan can do no wrong. Lets ignore the fact that Jerry Gray another coach who coached players going up against Thomas everyday for 2 years said that the kid can play, is a hard worker, and just needs the opportunity to go out there and show what he can do.

And im a knowledgable fan and im guessing that you are as well...so when I combine what I hear all the players say, what I hear the coaches say, and the talent that i see plain as day on the field then yea im going to assume that shanny had a personal problem with the kid. Especialy seeing that he didnt even give him a chance to succeed this year. And thats why he didnt give him a chance because he knew that aslong as Thomas is an unknown than he can justify cutting him. Because fans like you are going to believe anything he says and back any move that he makes.

And I dont think he's learned from his mistakes especially when ive been following the guy for over a decade. If he learned from his mistakes that he made in Denver then he wouldnt of made the mistakes that he made here in DC. How was i able to say (the day we hired him) that he has too much ego and he needs to get in check. Because he already showed that in the past. And he has shown it here in his first year here...so no i dont think he has learned.

Stop being naive...he doesnt get credit for admitting McNabb was a mistake. Common sense tells you its a mistake if you give up 2 picks to trade a guy and then only keep him for 13 games. Thas common sense...he had to admit it. What else was he goin to say? He has to justify him getting rid of McNabb some way. And you fans are falling for it hook line and sinker.

---------- Post added January-10th-2011 at 05:37 PM ----------


Oh yeah. Bang has been preaching it (once I detached from the circus year I could decipher what he was trying to tell me) The Free agency pool & Draft are very deep. Our QB may not be out there this year but we have so many other holes it doesn't matter.

An 8-8, 2011 campaign with a team that doesn't play up/down against its opponent every week would be great. It would feel good. I want to see 110% effort every night. The same way we played Dallas (each time), Indy, Philly (first time) Green Bay every damn week.

I also want to beat the Giants. Coach Gibbs knew how to do it. I'm sure Shanny can figure it out as well.

Your good convo bro lol

Hail!

lol you too man I can tell that you really know football. Most people dont look at the little details in sports. As pros you would think that they would have the pride to come out and play to a certain level every week. Thats why i said in 05 that this team had no heart and would never win big time. Everytime we become good and people start to believe in us we lose to a team that isnt on out level. Then when are backs are to the wall and have nothing to lose and people say we suck we come out and beat a good team. It drives me crazy.

---------- Post added January-10th-2011 at 05:42 PM ----------


Personally, hard to hold that against him when their WRs were getting healthy and they had bigger fish to fry. Fact is, young players who change teams often don't have much of an impact unless they are forced to play. (See: Andre Brown)

I don't know if Thomas forced Shanahan's hand or not in this. In any case, we won't really know where he stands until he has had a full offseason with another team.

Yea that Carolina argumet doesnt hold water if you really know and watch football. Carolina has a few yong good recievers that are starting to develope, and not to mention Steve Smith. So why would you expect Thomas to come in and play right away when those recievers were there working al offseason to get some playing time. You knew that it would take time for him to learn their system...its not like he was going to come in right away and start...thats not how the NFL works.

Like you said once he has a whole offseason with a team and gets on the field you really cant make a judgment on hm or a fair one atleast.

[SkinsFTW]

But Shanahan is just another coach. And if any of you want to keep him based off his resume from 10 years ago then your NUTTS! He should be evaluated on his accomplishments and progress next season and if there is none, then he should be dealt with.

That's the whole problem. Evaluated by WHO? Our non qualified to be anything but a fan, owner? Hey, I didn't like the hiring of Shanahan either. Look at my history, but it takes more than 2 seasons to turn a cluster**** around. The whole problem is that we still don't have a real GM to Coach relationship. Shanahan is basically the boss, the owner is the only one above him and I wouldn't trust that guys "evaluation" process of anything. He's still the same guy who fired Schottenheimer so he could bring back his best buddy and hire Steve Spurrier. He has 0 clue about anything and so how would he evaluate the job that Shanahan is doing?

[ChillSkinzFan84]

First off you didn't answer my question.

McNabb has not shown that he can do anything good this year. He's lazy, noncompetitive, inaccurate, throws int's at the end of games, and for how old he is still doesn't know how to get rid of the ball quickly. Considering Manning and Brady as HOFers I wouldn't mention McNabb in the same breath as those guys. This season showed he benefitted from Philly's system, and all those years in Philly they had one of the best defenses in the league.

I liked McNabb when we traded for him, but you need to be real he sucks.

Ok to answer your question he throws deep balls well, thats why he was close to breaking the single season pasing yards record and why Armstrong was close to 1000yds and why his yds per catch average is so high, he throws screens well, he avoids the rush and can extend plays. We should have alot more sacks than we do but he avoided many.

You dont have to mention with hall of famers but the NFL community does...so I dont think he's worried about you.

[charles mannley]

Ok to answer your question he throws deep balls well, thats why he was close to breaking the single season pasing yards record and why Armstrong was close to 1000yds and why his yds per catch average is so high, he throws screens well, he avoids the rush and can extend plays. We should have alot more sacks than we do but he avoided many.

You dont have to mention with hall of famers but the NFL community does...so I dont think he's worried about you.

And thats why he sucks because now he is easy to gameplan against. Everyone knows he wants to go deep everytime. In this system its timing, rhythm, and spreading the ball around. . McNabb is a backyard quarterback(like Roethlisbuerger without the competitive fire and the ability to hit the intermediate routes) that doesn't fit the system shanahn runs. He is not a student of the game.

I personally think Shanahan saw the wins on McNabbs record, as we all did, but found out he can't be coached.

I know he doesn't care what I think. I am just sayin.

[pimpumd]

This thread is hilarious. Fans still claiming Devin Thomas is great based on what his teammates said about him. Hilarious. What do you expect them to say, that he sucks? I can't recall the last time I heard a player just come out say that one of his teammates (or former teammates) sucked. Yeah, Shanahan made a mistake about McNabb, and he's admitted it.

I actually like what I've seen under Shanahan this year. Under Zorn, we had zero semblance of a running game. Zero. Now, we have Torain (and others), who many would say is not a top RB talent, putting up good numbers behind an o-line we all know is still in need of significant improvement. We throw the ball deep now. We've seen what the offense can look like with a QB that knows how to run it when Rex played well. We know he isn't the answer but at least we know our scheme is capable, which is far more that we had with Zorn (and Spurrier, and to some extent Gibbs).

Fans seems to have a hard time accepting the fact that the team was completely devoid of talent when Shanny took over, and it takes TIME to undo what previous management did. It seems all the Shanahan bashers are hanging their hat on the McNabb trade. Big effing deal. Shanny thought McNabb could play/learn his offense, he couldn't, Shanny admitted it was a mistake and we've moved on. It's worth the risk to get a potential franchise QB, it just didn't work out. The draft picks we lost on that trade weren't going to make us contenders by any means. If it becomes a pattern, then I'll be worried.

[Bang]

Personally, hard to hold that against him when their WRs were getting healthy and they had bigger fish to fry. Fact is, young players who change teams often don't have much of an impact unless they are forced to play. (See: Andre Brown)

I don't know if Thomas forced Shanahan's hand or not in this. In any case, we won't really know where he stands until he has had a full offseason with another team.

True.
I don't have anything against him, but I don't think he's going to do much.

Maybe he'll be like Lloyd and grow up somewhere someday and be something.

Unless I miss my guess, hadn't he only played on year of football before we drafted him? He was very raw then,, might be he's too raw.

~Bang

---------- Post added January-11th-2011 at 04:02 AM ----------


You'd think after a decade of having coaches last an average of 2 years that fans would learn that it is one of the big reasons why we haven't been very good.

While I wasn't a big fan of the Shanahan hire, or with some of his decisions, I know that this team needs to stick with some plan for longer than two years and whoever was hired for the job should be someone we stick with for the long-term.

Exactly. Ultimately, he may fail.
But if we start rolling heads (except Danny smiths :pfft: ) prematurely we can all but guarantee the next guy will fail, too.

~Bang

[Skinzfever2010]

This thread is hilarious. Fans still claiming Devin Thomas is great based on what his teammates said about him. Hilarious. What do you expect them to say, that he sucks? I can't recall the last time I heard a player just come out say that one of his teammates (or former teammates) sucked. Yeah, Shanahan made a mistake about McNabb, and he's admitted it.

I actually like what I've seen under Shanahan this year. Under Zorn, we had zero semblance of a running game. Zero. Now, we have Torain (and others), who many would say is not a top RB talent, putting up good numbers behind an o-line we all know is still in need of significant improvement. We throw the ball deep now. We've seen what the offense can look like with a QB that knows how to run it when Rex played well. We know he isn't the answer but at least we know our scheme is capable, which is far more that we had with Zorn (and Spurrier, and to some extent Gibbs).

Fans seems to have a hard time accepting the fact that the team was completely devoid of talent when Shanny took over, and it takes TIME to undo what previous management did. It seems all the Shanahan bashers are hanging their hat on the McNabb trade. Big effing deal. Shanny thought McNabb could play/learn his offense, he couldn't, Shanny admitted it was a mistake and we've moved on. It's worth the risk to get a potential franchise QB, it just didn't work out. The draft picks we lost on that trade weren't going to make us contenders by any means. If it becomes a pattern, then I'll be worried.

Under Zorn we had one hell of a running game before our line wore out? I honestly don't want to read anything else you have to say.

Ugh,...

[Redskins4ever]

Mike Shanahan will be around for a while. Why fire him? Why? This is nothing more than some sports writer talking out of the side of his neck. Mike Shanahan and Bruce Allen are still trying to undo the mess that Snyder and Cerratto made. That's going to take some time.

[Skinzfever2010]

Mike Shanahan will be around for a while. Why fire him? Why? This is nothing more than some sports writer talking out of the side of his neck. Mike Shanahan and Bruce Allen are still trying to undo the mess that Snyder and Cerratto made. That's going to take some time.

Exactly

Slow news day. We pretty much opened ourselves up to be picked on after the circus years that were 09-10. So honestly its whatever at this point. Pick right on and keep picking until there is nothing left to pick.

We need an exceptional draft, and some good free agent pick ups. The mainsteam American Journalism & Mass Communications department has hit the ****ter anyway.

Hail!

[p0rtis26]

Umm...I believe it. This is the same owner who put vanilla ice cream on a coach's desk, hired a bingo caller to call plays, fired Shotty after a late season run in his first year, and had Vinny Cerrato as his GM/VP of Raquetball for the better part of ten years! Everyone needs to get their heads out of their rear ends and wake up! The media is not against the redskins. We do it to ourselves...we are the Raiders!!!

[Skinzfever2010]

Umm...I believe it. This is the same owner who put vanilla ice cream on a coach's desk, hired a bingo caller to call plays, fired Shotty after a late season run in his first year, and had Vinny Cerrato as his GM/VP of Raquetball for the better part of ten years! Everyone needs to get their heads out of their rear ends and wake up! The media is not against the redskins. We do it to ourselves...we are the Raiders!!!

Don't believe the hype

Same owner that hired Joe Gibbs and stepped back. The same owner who said out of his mouth he wants Shan to retire here.

S
L
O
W

News day

[p0rtis26]

Stepped back? You're kidding, right?

[Skinzfever2010]

Stepped back? You're kidding, right?

Danny let Joe run the show. Joe picked his players Vinny signed them. This was explained to me more than a few times this past season by several different posters. I'm very serious.

[ConnSKINS26]

Stepped back? You're kidding, right?

Even if he didn't with Gibbs, there's NO evidence that he hasn't stepped back now, with Shanahan. And that's all that matters now.

If anything, Snyder and Vinny HAD to fail on their own, with full control, before Snyder could realize that he just couldn't keep that up.

[Bang]

And your the typical fan that thinks the coach knows best just because he's the coach. I guess coaches never make mistakes huh? I guess they're not human and dont hold personal grudges against players for whatever reason. No he's the coach and he always makes the right choice becaue he's there everyday. Take that BS somewhere eles. If this was a perfect world then maybe I would buy it.
Ive played sports I know how the game goes, Ive seen good players not get time because the coach had a personal problem with them...and given the fact that I already knew Shannahan had a huge ego exscuse me for not giving him the benefit of the doubt.

:ols: "I've played sports"
Really ? Has it ever been your career? Have you played sports for a living for a few decades?
As you like to say.. "take that **** somewhere else" That's a joke.

They do make mistakes. I've never once said otherwise.
But it's also a fact he knows more about football than you and I combined. To pretend otherwise is the height of arrogance and ignorance. Are you the typical fan who DOES think he knows more than the coach? I don't want to tell you how patently ridiculous that is. I'm sure you've got a job, but I bet it's not anything to do with football.


Just ignore the fact that we all saw Thomas have good games and show some promise. Ignore the fact that other players said how good he was and his potential, this year Randle El said that he sees Thomas as a Anquan Bolden type and he didnt unerstand why he cant get a chance. And was on the field with him, in the study room with him for 2 years...but lets just ignore that because Shannahan can do no wrong. Lets ignore the fact that Jerry Gray another coach who coached players going up against Thomas everyday for 2 years said that the kid can play, is a hard worker, and just needs the opportunity to go out there and show what he can do.
And you just ignore the fact that two NFL coaches have complained about his work habits, and he's on his third team in one year. Young players who can play don't end up in that situation.
As someone else said, I don't think I've ever heard any player say anything negative about a teammate. In fact, if we watch some football together sometime I'll show you a nifty trick. When they interview the coach or any player, I can tell you almost exactly what they'll say BEFORE they say it. And the cool thing is,, so can you! It's as predictable as the sunrise. They almost all say the same things. It's rarely negative, rarely does that get into the public eye straight from a teammate's mouth. When it does, it's news.
But nah, you saw him do well in a couple games last year, so from your position on the couch, you don't get it.
That's fine, you don't get it. But you don't seem to leave the possibility open that there might be a problem there that you DON'T see. You've got it all figured out, and believe you don't get it because they have it wrong.
Teams just love to get rid of talented young players. They do it all the time. Especially when they are rebuilding and don't have any receivers. That is usually when these awesome guys get cut, mid season. Coaches love to do that, especially when they come to a team that has so many needs.


And I'm a knowledgable fan and im guessing that you are as well...so when I combine what I hear all the players say, what I hear the coaches say, and the talent that i see plain as day on the field then yea im going to assume that shanny had a personal problem with the kid.
So what if he did? Maybe his personal problem stemmed from him sleeping in meetings. He's not the first coach that has complained about his work habits. Factor those into what you see.


Especialy seeing that he didnt even give him a chance to succeed this year. And thats why he didnt give him a chance because he knew that aslong as Thomas is an unknown than he can justify cutting him. Because fans like you are going to believe anything he says and back any move that he makes.

Right, becaue it makes SO much sense to have such a conspiracy. It really helps a team be productive!

I don't back everything he does. I'm arguing with your characterization of anyone who believes that he might know a bit more about the situation than we do.


And I dont think he's learned from his mistakes especially when ive been following the guy for over a decade. If he learned from his mistakes that he made in Denver then he wouldn't of made the mistakes that he made here in DC. How was i able to say (the day we hired him) that he has too much ego and he needs to get in check. Because he already showed that in the past. And he has shown it here in his first year here...so no i dint think he has learned.

I've been following about twice that long, and coaches in general for a whole lot longer. I can tell you this about them. They are ALL egotistical. ALL of them. People who compete for a living and lead for a living all think their **** doesn't stink, and that their decisions are right.
The difference is whether or not he can move on from a mistake. McNabb is a HUGE mistake. BIG time, especially considering the rebuilding that needs to be done. It's a disaster that it didn't work out.
I am well aware of his proclivity for making dumb free agent moves and trades. (Love his draft, tho).
I made a cartoon surmising that a "special needs" kid was actually doing his signings for him in Denver. Bronco Billy's been one of my most popular characters ever since.
Not sure how many of my cartoons you've seen, but I'm the guy who does a LOT more than just criticize these guys on a message board. I hammer them. Make fun of them mercilessly. And i get plenty of traffic watching them, including players and coaches alike.
I am so far from the type of fan you think I am it's not even funny, and I've got 7 years worth of radio shows and 150+ cartoons to bear me out when I say that.


Stop being naive...he doesnt get credit for admitting McNabb was a mistake.
really? Eating a gigantic mistake like that as publicly as it was done is not admitting an error?

Common sense tells you its a mistake if you give up 2 picks to trade a guy and then only keep him for 13 games. Thats common sense...he had to admit it. What else was he goin to say? He has to justify him getting rid of McNabb some way. And you fans are falling for it hook line and sinker.[COLOR="Gold"]
Trouble is, the side of the road is littered with coaches who don't admit mistakes and try their best to claim that it's not even as it gets them fired.

Naive,, :ols: that's pretty funny. In the words of the immortal Bugs Bunny.. "he don't know me very well, do he?"

[quote]
Yea that Carolina argumet doesnt hold water if you really know and watch football. Carolina has a few yong good recievers that are starting to develope, and not to mention Steve Smith. So why would you expect Thomas to come in and play right away when those recievers were there working al offseason to get some playing time.
Because all of them were HURT. Why did they sign him? Do teams sign players for no reason? They signed him and released him a few weeks later. With their injuries, if he could contribute he would, even on special teams. You think none of this has anything to do with Thomas himself?
He's failed to impress every coach he's had in the NFL. He had to fight to get on the field when he was a rookie, they complained about his work habits. Last year before he showed you that promise, he was again on the bench, playing only sparingly. I don't know how many more ways you need to see that the guy might have a problem that turns off his coaches.
Let's face it. Carolina's entire offense didn't know what it was doing all year. One more guy with no experience isn't OKing to make much difference.
But, that's why they're picking first and their coach is looking for a job, I guess.



You knew that it would take time for him to learn their system...its not like he was going to come in right away and start...thats not how the NFL works. So, for some reason Carolina decided that they didn't even want to give him that, but they signed him anyway... for a few days. Why'd they do that?


Like you said once he has a whole offseason with a team and gets on the field you really cant make a judgment on hm or a fair one at least. He's had three offseasons. Don't they count?

~Bang

[MattFancy]

I was a big Devin Thomas supporter, but he was on 3 teams this season. He and I both had the same amount of catches on the season. That should tell you something...

[redskins55]

That's the whole problem. Evaluated by WHO? Our non qualified to be anything but a fan, owner? Hey, I didn't like the hiring of Shanahan either. Look at my history, but it takes more than 2 seasons to turn a cluster**** around. The whole problem is that we still don't have a real GM to Coach relationship. Shanahan is basically the boss, the owner is the only one above him and I wouldn't trust that guys "evaluation" process of anything. He's still the same guy who fired Schottenheimer so he could bring back his best buddy and hire Steve Spurrier. He has 0 clue about anything and so how would he evaluate the job that Shanahan is doing?

Excellent question..
We all know that Snyder has done everything to mess this thing up in D.C. But lets be very realistic here.. Snyder has been hands off for two coaches since he's owned the team, Joe Gibbs and Mike Shanahan. When Gibbs coached you didnt hear or see anything from Snyder or Cerrato, so if Gibbs messed up it was all on him. Gibbs even said " hey if this team doesn't do well the finger is pointed at me not Dan". But Gibbs took us to the playoffs two years so who cant evaluate that success? But what if Gibbs wouldnt have gone to the playoffs the second year? People were already calling for his head after 2006 when we went 5-11. The evaluation doesn't have to be by Snyder, its basically cut and dry with Shanahan just as it was with Gibbs. Win and you stay, lose and your gone!

[pimpumd]

Under Zorn we had one hell of a running game before our line wore out? I honestly don't want to read anything else you have to say.

Ugh,...

Are you referring to Zorn's first season, when we started 6-2? Then the rest of the league figured out how to beat us? Is that what you're referring to? So let me get this straight, you actually think we had a good running game under Zorn? That's funny. Please don't respond to any of my posts if you thought we had a good running game under Zorn.

[Skinzfever2010]

Are you referring to Zorn's first season, when we started 6-2? Then the rest of the league figured out how to beat us? Is that what you're referring to? So let me get this straight, you actually think we had a good running game under Zorn? That's funny. Please don't respond to any of my posts if you thought we had a good running game under Zorn.

Technically we had a good running game under Zorn in year 1.

Prove me wrong?

The rest of the league figuring us out was not included in your original off the wall assertion. Nice try (adding it in up there^ lol)

We actually did (I challenge you to pull stats from the 2008 season sir)

[pimpumd]

Technically we had a good running game under Zorn in year 1.

Prove me wrong?

The rest of the league figuring us out was not included in your original off the wall assertion. Nice try (adding it in up there^ lol)



We actually did (I challenge you to pull stats from the 2008 season sir)

So, according to you, having a good running game for 1/4 of the time Zorn was here means we had a good running game under Zorn? I said that we did not have a good running game under Zorn, and for 3/4 of the time he was here, that was the case. How does that not make sense to you?

Let me help you out. Portis had very good numbers for the first half of Zorn's first season (so did JC for that matter). Once teams figured out what we were doing, any success we were having abruptly ended.

[ChillSkinzFan84]

lol @Bang now I see why your a cartoonist...because your a funny guy. I see you tried pretty hard but you didnt disprove any of my points. Nice try though. If you ever played sports then you would know that you dont have to play pro sports to have experianced similar sports situations that pros have...especially onces when dealing with a coach. But maybe I shouldnt expect a waterboy to understand that. You think every coach is perfect and that they dont make mistakes so really theres no hope of you understanding. Didnt you use to stick up for Jim Zorn too? Yea your the type to make fun of people after the fact...you know hindsight is 20/20 anybody can do that. Im not going to go back and forth with you because your beliefs are your beliefs and it seems as if they're set in stone but I will make myself clear on 2points.

I never said Thomas was going to be great I said not finding out what he could do this year and instead keeping Joey Galloway and Roydell Williams, Two players who just wasted roster spots all year, Was a mistake. If you cant see that then I cant help you. And if he does become good I bet you'll just say the standard " well he finally got his act together and became good" crap that coach loving fans say. Because its not possible that he was good hear and just didnt get the opportunity to play or that the coach made a mistake. Because the coach knows football and wouldnt cut a good player. You act like good players dont get cut. James Harrison was cut 6 times and he was a MVP, Kurt Warner wa bagging groceries, wonderboy Anthony Armstrong was cut, I could go on for days naming players who didnt get a chance but turned out to be good. Its called opportunity. But no coaches dont make mistakes and cut good players so they must of just got good overnight with their current team smh. Yea right you probably used to make fun of Fred Davis too before he got his opportunity.

As for Shanny admitting his mistake with McNabb...it seems to be that you dont comprehend that he had no choice but to admit it. What was he going to say after he trades the man? That he did the right thing in giving up 2 picks for him just to let him play 13 games and then getting rid of him after one year? Like I said your falling for it hook line and sinker because your not getting the point that he doesnt want anyone to talk about...that fact that he did a crappy job here as coach in 2010, the fact that his offense didnt succeed, that they didnt score points, that he made the whole year a circus...instead he throws mcnabb under the bus and everyone just focuses on that and puts all the blame on donnovan. That was the whole purpose of him throwing mcnabb under the bus.

But if you want to continue with blind faith then go head...but where did it get you with Zorn and Blache. Ill leave it at that...I have no problem with you nothing personal and your cartoons are ok I think I laughed at some back in 02 or 03. But your willingness to stick up and side with coaches in general and Shannahan is just laughable to me...like I said your a funny guy. Talk to ya later

[Bang]

I see it's obvious you failed to grasp anything I said.

Peace.

~Bang

[TheLongshot]

True.
I don't have anything against him, but I don't think he's going to do much.

Maybe he'll be like Lloyd and grow up somewhere someday and be something.

Unless I miss my guess, hadn't he only played on year of football before we drafted him? He was very raw then,, might be he's too raw.

He was a JuCo transfer with one full year at Michigan. He probably didn't do his career any favors in coming out early, but many rated him as the top WR in the draft, so it is kinda hard to blame him.

What will keep Thomas around is that he's a pretty good ST player. He returns kicks, does a good job as a gunner and, much to our chagrin, can block a kick. :doh:

I don't have much regrets about him. When we drafted him, I saw him as a high risk/high reward kind of player.

[Bang]

He was a JuCo transfer with one full year at Michigan. He probably didn't do his career any favors in coming out early, but many rated him as the top WR in the draft, so it is kinda hard to blame him.

What will keep Thomas around is that he's a pretty good ST player. He returns kicks, does a good job as a gunner and, much to our chagrin, can block a kick. :doh:

I don't have much regrets about him. When we drafted him, I saw him as a high risk/high reward kind of player.

That's right, thanks for the clarification (altho I think it was Mich. St.)

I agree, I don't have much regret,, and even though he's showing he might not be much in the league, I had hopes for him when he was drafted.
I wish him success,,, once he leaves the Giants.

~Bang

[TheLongshot]

That's right, thanks for the clarification (altho I think it was Mich. St.)

You might be right about that.


I agree, I don't have much regret,, and even though he's showing he might not be much in the league, I had hopes for him when he was drafted.
I wish him success,,, once he leaves the Giants.

I've actually had higher hopes for Kelly, who is the big physical receiver we haven't had since Monk left.

But, to keep perspective, Thomas is still doing better than half the WRs drafted in that round, in that he's still in the league. Of the 10 receivers drafted in that 2nd round, only 4 have been productive in offenses. I am hoping once Kelly gets past the injury bug that he will be #5.

[SKOALSKIN]

This is bull**** started by florio. I was listening to those idiot's "the Junkies" who were sure the story was true. According to EB there is no way Florio would just speculate. This ******* conjures ideas out of thin air (or message boards) and then tries to pawn them off to readers as NFL scripture. I'm sick of his racket.

[Larry Brown #43]

This is bull**** started by florio.

I agree 100%, with respect to Florio. However, Jay Glazer came out with a report about Snyder’s frustrations with Shanny a little while back. Glazer tends to be one of the more trustworthy football reporters out there. It’s certainly possible Glazer was misinformed, but he seems to be the recipient of quality leaks and isn't just a pot-stirrer, as far as I can tell.

A big problem we have around here is that our expectations don’t match reality. The sooner we all (fans, ownership, and everyone else in Redskinland) understand that having a championship-caliber football team is not our birthright, the better off we’ll all be.

Take a look at Steve Spagnuoulo and the St. Louis Rams. He takes over a hapless mess of a team in 2009 and goes 1-15. In 2010, they make dramatic strides, end up going 7-9, and have the football world saying, “Hey, Spags has those Rams headed in the right direction.”

But by our standards, Spags would be considered a failure. “Two seasons and he hasn’t even posted a winning record yet? Get him outta here!” So then we start over.

[Kostaskins]

how can shanny build up a team with no draft picks!!! snyder **** down and shut up! give the guy 5 years! true years with draft picks!

[TheLongshot]

I agree 100%, with respect to Florio. However, Jay Glazer came out with a report about Snyder’s frustrations with Shanny a little while back. Glazer tends to be one of the more trustworthy football reporters out there. It’s certainly possible Glazer was misinformed, but he seems to be the recipient of quality leaks and isn't just a pot-stirrer, as far as I can tell.

It is still mostly meaningless. You can be frustrated and all it leads to is a talk session about what happened, what went wrong and what will change in the future to keep it from happening again. If I was Snyder, I wouldn't be happy either about some of the things that went on, but that doesn't mean that the guy's job is in danger.

[tiger187126]

potential media fodder: lets write about it until it comes true!

the media has began to throw unsourced stories around in a vague manner so that when they're proven false they can say, we didn't actually say it was 100% true.

breaking a story is more important to the media than getting a story right.

[Califan007]

how can shanny build up a team with no draft picks!!! snyder **** down and shut up! give the guy 5 years! true years with draft picks!

What are you mad about? lol

[wilbur58z]

You have to wonder if Snyder doesn't like Shanahan running everything...

He fired Marty because of that.

[Larry Brown #43]

It is still mostly meaningless. You can be frustrated and all it leads to is a talk session about what happened, what went wrong and what will change in the future to keep it from happening again. If I was Snyder, I wouldn't be happy either about some of the things that went on, but that doesn't mean that the guy's job is in danger.

It's meaningless, UNLESS it was Snyder who leaked his frustration to Glazer. If Snyder was frustrated enough that he felt the need or the urge to leak his frustration to Glazer, then I don’t think it’s meaningless at all. And if it wasn’t Snyder who leaked it, I can’t even fathom where Glazer could have gotten information about Snyder being frustrated. Again, maybe he was just misinformed.

Obviously, I have no idea whether Snyder leaked the info. Hopefully he did not. But I’d say that Snyder has used carefully timed and carefully placed leaks over the years to get a message across. I recall a report about Zorn that said, “the honeymoon is over,” when things started to go south with him. That report was surprising at the time, because we had started out 6-2 under him, and he was in his first year. But it turned out to be truer than true.

Snyder may be crazy but he’s not dumb. He knows how to float a message out through the media. Again, I don’t know whether that’s what he did that with Glazer regarding Shanny, but it’s worrisome if he did. From what I’ve seen over the years, Snyder tends to fire a shot across the bow before things completely deteriorate with his coach.

To make a long story short, I think the report in the OP is likely crap, but I’m more concerned about the report from a few weeks back from the usually reliable Glazer.

[pimpumd]

Technically we had a good running game under Zorn in year 1.

Prove me wrong?

The rest of the league figuring us out was not included in your original off the wall assertion. Nice try (adding it in up there^ lol)

We actually did (I challenge you to pull stats from the 2008 season sir)


So, according to you, having a good running game for 1/4 of the time Zorn was here means we had a good running game under Zorn? I said that we did not have a good running game under Zorn, and for 3/4 of the time he was here, that was the case. How does that not make sense to you?

Let me help you out. Portis had very good numbers for the first half of Zorn's first season (so did JC for that matter). Once teams figured out what we were doing, any success we were having abruptly ended.

I'm glad you realized your incredible error, but you could of at least acknowledged I was right instead of just leaving. :ols::pfft:

[TheLongshot]

It's meaningless, UNLESS it was Snyder who leaked his frustration to Glazer.

I've never seen anything within this organization to prove that Snyder is passive aggressive like this. Plus, this is a man who doesn't trust the media. I doubt that Snyder is doing any leaking to the media. Someone might, but I doubt it is Snyder or done with his permission.

[Larry Brown #43]

I've never seen anything within this organization to prove that Snyder is passive aggressive like this. Plus, this is a man who doesn't trust the media. I doubt that Snyder is doing any leaking to the media. Someone might, but I doubt it is Snyder or done with his permission.




With Zorn, you had the “honeymoon is over” leak, which turned out to be dead-on accurate. With Spurrier, Vinny and Snyder cut Danny Wuerffel and forced Spurrier to coach without the one and only quarterback he really wanted to work with. You can argue that it was a good football decision, but it neutered Spurrier and cut his legs out from under him. Spurrier’s dejected responses? “I thought I’d at least be able to pick my quarterback.” Spurrier lost all interest in the job at that moment. There were even reports that Marty could be in trouble after his first season, but no one actually believed it because it seemed absurd--until it actually happened. Norv was given a playoffs-or-bust ultimatum in ’99, as I recall, before he was fired the following season at 7-6.

As for the media, you’re right that Snyder generally doesn’t trust them. But I think he has a few hand-selected confidants he’ll spill the beans to when he’s so inclined.

[SkinsFTW]

You have to wonder if Snyder doesn't like Shanahan running everything...

He fired Marty because of that.

And Schottenheimer finished by winning 8 of 11 with gd Tony Banks at QB, no legit receiving threats, and an entire squad of scrubs on defense with the exception of Arrington and Bailey.

I wouldn't be surprised if he is itching to fire Shanahan but he has to know that the fan revolt would have to mean the end of the road for him. I wanna see what he does if Shanahan really starts a rebuilding process and we go 5-11 next year. I seriously doubt Shanahan can even consider really doing that though.

[nebster21]

Yeah the crack is the media wanting to have something to talk about. I wonder what the media will make up this year trying to create a drift between coach and ownerships. The media is funny that way.

[TheLongshot]

With Zorn, you had the “honeymoon is over” leak, which turned out to be dead-on accurate. With Spurrier, Vinny and Snyder cut Danny Wuerffel and forced Spurrier to coach without the one and only quarterback he really wanted to work with. You can argue that it was a good football decision, but it neutered Spurrier and cut his legs out from under him. Spurrier’s dejected responses? “I thought I’d at least be able to pick my quarterback.” Spurrier lost all interest in the job at that moment. There were even reports that Marty could be in trouble after his first season, but no one actually believed it because it seemed absurd--until it actually happened. Norv was given a playoffs-or-bust ultimatum in ’99, as I recall, before he was fired the following season at 7-6.

As for the media, you’re right that Snyder generally doesn’t trust them. But I think he has a few hand-selected confidants he’ll spill the beans to when he’s so inclined.

Well, the latter sounded like a smart decision considering that Woeful was never that good. I remember many cheering that decision at the time. (Tho, I never understood what Vinny saw in Rob Johnson that lead him to believe he'd be a good QB for Spurrier.) As for the former, given everything that was heard after the fact, I wouldn't be shocked if most of the rumors came from Vinny or someone close to him. Toward the end, it sounded like he was getting really hostile to Zorn.

[Skinzfever2010]

I'm glad you realized your incredible error, but you could of at least acknowledged I was right instead of just leaving. :ols::pfft:

I went to sleep sir. Sorry

I asked you to provide stats. That was a direct question. I never implied the question. Go find the stats copy N Paste them and lets talk about how legit our running game indeed was in 2008. The reason we went 8-8 was because we could run the hell out of the football.

I will wait

Hail!

[pimpumd]

I went to sleep sir. Sorry

I asked you to provide stats. That was a direct question. I never implied the question. Go find the stats copy N Paste them and lets talk about how legit our running game indeed was in 2008. The reason we went 8-8 was because we could run the hell out of the football.

I will wait

Hail!

2008

1. 84
2. 149
3. 136
4. 161
5. 213
6. 181
7. 193
8. 135

First half season rushing yards per game = 156.5

9. 60
10. 92
11. 187
12. 92
13. 62
14. 113
15. 122
16. 125

Second half season rushing yards per game = 106.625

We ended up 8th overall in rushing in 2008. As you can see, it was quite the difference between the first half of the season and the second half. In the first half of the 2008 season, we were among the league leaders in rushing. The Giants finished number one for the year with 157.4 rushing yards/game. Our average in the first half of the season was right there with the Giants. However, in the second half of the season, our average was on par with the #22 rushing team that year, the Eagles (at 106 yards/game). The downward rushing trend continued into and for the entirety of the 2009 season, as seen below.

2009

91.3 rushing yards/game (30th in the league)

Is that clear enough for you? We were not a good rushing team under Zorn. We started out on fire, but once teams knew our scheme we fell of rapidly, and permanently. Yes, we ended up 8th overall in rushing in 2008, but you can clearly see it was a season of two halves, with a very strong rushing attack in the first half and very weak rushing attack in the second half. We started 6-2 with a strong rushing attack, and finished 2-6 with a very weak rushing attack. The fact that the trend continued for the rest of Zorn's tenure is representative of our weak rushing attack under Zorn. As I said before, for 3/4 of Zorn's tenure, we had a pathetic rushing attack.

This was your quote:


Under Zorn we had one hell of a running game before our line wore out? I honestly don't want to read anything else you have to say.

Ugh,...

So I guess for a full season and a half you blame the poor running game under Zorn on the o-line? That's pretty funny.

[Skinzfever2010]

2008

1. 84
2. 149
3. 136
4. 161
5. 213
6. 181
7. 193
8. 135

First half season rushing yards per game = 156.5

9. 60
10. 92
11. 187
12. 92
13. 62
14. 113
15. 122
16. 125

Second half season rushing yards per game = 106.625

We ended up 8th overall in rushing in 2008. As you can see, it was quite the difference between the first half of the season and the second half. In the first half of the 2008 season, we were among the league leaders in rushing. The Giants finished number one for the year with 157.4 rushing yards/game. Our average in the first half of the season was right there with the Giants. However, in the second half of the season, our average was on par with the #22 rushing team that year, the Eagles (at 106 yards/game). The downward rushing trend continued into and for the entirety of the 2009 season, as seen below.

2009

91.3 rushing yards/game (30th in the league)

Is that clear enough for you? We were not a good rushing team under Zorn. We started out on fire, but once teams knew our scheme we fell of rapidly, and permanently. Yes, we ended up 8th overall in rushing in 2008, but you can clearly see it was a season of two halves, with a very strong rushing attack in the first half and very weak rushing attack in the second half. We started 6-2 with a strong rushing attack, and finished 2-6 with a very weak rushing attack. The fact that the trend continued for the rest of Zorn's tenure is representative of our weak rushing attack under Zorn. As I said before, for 3/4 of Zorn's tenure, we had a pathetic rushing attack.

This was your quote:



So I guess for a full season and a half you blame the poor running game under Zorn on the o-line? That's pretty funny.


I'm confused man. 2008 seemed like a pretty good year? Did it not? 8th in th league? Prowbowl running back?

[pimpumd]

I'm confused man. 2008 seemed like a pretty good year? Did it not? 8th in th league? Prowbowl running back?

The point is, for the majority of the time Zorn was here, our rushing attack was not good. I don't think a good half of one season means we had a good running attack under Zorn, which is what you asserted.

[jnhay]

Speculation comes true way too often with this organization, so I wouldn't just dismiss this. Hopefully we don't hear more about this in the months to come.

[Skinzfever2010]

The point is, for the majority of the time Zorn was here, our rushing attack was not good. I don't think a good half of one season means we had a good running attack under Zorn, which is what you asserted.


sill confused..

I said we had a good running game under Zorn in year 1. :ols:

Those stats your copy and pasted support that. Agree?

[pimpumd]

Not what you said. You said we a good rushing attack under Zorn until the "line wore out?" Were you asking a question? And was the line wore out in year 2 of Zorn? You never mentioned just year 1 of Zorn.

[Skinzfever2010]

Not what you said. You said we a good rushing attack under Zorn until the "line wore out?" Were you asking a question? And was the line wore out in year 2 of Zorn? You never mentioned just year 1 of Zorn.

Reading is fundamental sir. Post my quotes or re-read them in response to yours. lol

HAIL!

[1972FAN]

don't believe it, garbage

[pimpumd]

Reading is fundamental sir. Post my quotes or re-read them in response to yours. lol

HAIL!

I quoted you before but I'll do it once again since you can't seem to read to well.


Under Zorn we had one hell of a running game before our line wore out? I honestly don't want to read anything else you have to say.

Ugh,...

This was your response to when I said we had a weak running game under Zorn. You say "we had one hell of a running game before our line wore out?" Where does that specify only in year 1 of Zorn? It doesn't. And are you implying that the line was still "wore out" in year 2 of Zorn?

Clearly math and logic are not your friend. I acknowledged the running game was good in the first half of Zorn year 1. That leaves 24 other games where the run game sucked. Do you not get that?

[Skinzfever2010]

I'm glad you realized your incredible error, but you could of at least acknowledged I was right instead of just leaving. :ols::pfft:


Originally Posted by Skinzfever2010
Technically we had a good running game under Zorn in year 1.

Prove me wrong?

The rest of the league figuring us out was not included in your original off the wall assertion. Nice try (adding it in up there^ lol)

We actually did (I challenge you to pull stats from the 2008 season sir)

Originally Posted by pimpumd

So, according to you, having a good running game for 1/4 of the time Zorn was here means we had a good running game under Zorn? I said that we did not have a good running game under Zorn, and for 3/4 of the time he was here, that was the case. How does that not make sense to you?

Let me help you out. Portis had very good numbers for the first half of Zorn's first season (so did JC for that matter). Once teams figured out what we were doing, any success we were having abruptly ended.
I'm glad you realized your incredible error, but you could of at least acknowledged I was right instead of just leaving.
:ols:

You know what I said mr.pimp


---------- Post added January-11th-2011 at 08:35 PM ----------


I quoted you before but I'll do it once again since you can't seem to read to well.



This was your response to when I said we had a weak running game under Zorn. You say "we had one hell of a running game before our line wore out?" Where does that specify only in year 1 of Zorn? It doesn't. And are you implying that the line was still "wore out" in year 2 of Zorn?

Clearly math and logic are not your friend. I acknowledged the running game was good in the first half of Zorn year 1. That leaves 24 other games where the run game sucked. Do you not get that?

Just graduated (econ major) loved math.

[pimpumd]

Originally Posted by Skinzfever2010
Technically we had a good running game under Zorn in year 1.

Prove me wrong?

The rest of the league figuring us out was not included in your original off the wall assertion. Nice try (adding it in up there^ lol)

We actually did (I challenge you to pull stats from the 2008 season sir)

Originally Posted by pimpumd

So, according to you, having a good running game for 1/4 of the time Zorn was here means we had a good running game under Zorn? I said that we did not have a good running game under Zorn, and for 3/4 of the time he was here, that was the case. How does that not make sense to you?

Let me help you out. Portis had very good numbers for the first half of Zorn's first season (so did JC for that matter). Once teams figured out what we were doing, any success we were having abruptly ended.
I'm glad you realized your incredible error, but you could of at least acknowledged I was right instead of just leaving.
:ols:

You know what I said mr.pimp


---------- Post added January-11th-2011 at 08:35 PM ----------



Just graduated (econ major) loved math.

Congrats on your education there buddy. I graduated in 01 with a finance major and in 05 with a law degree. I love math, too. If you think having half a good rushing year constitutes a good rushing attack, I don't know what to say. We were also 6-2 during that good half of the year, and when we couldn't rush it we were 2-6. Simple math :)

Using your logic our 6-2 record during the first half of 08 technically meant we had a winning season.

[Skinzfever2010]

Congrats on your education there buddy. I graduated in 01 with a finance major and in 05 with a law degree. I love math, too. If you think having half a good rushing year constitutes a good rushing attack, I don't know what to say. We were also 6-2 during that good half of the year, and when we couldn't rush it we were 2-6. Simple math :)

Using your logic our 6-2 record during the first half of 08 technically meant we had a winning season.


Thats awesome. Was the Lsat a beast? Where did you got to Law School?

I honestly could care less about the rushing attack in 2008. Zorn the rushing all of it at this point is meaningless. All I know is I'm sick of the media making up stories every other week.

[haider61]

"But I've learned to get the right people, and we did that with Joe Gibbs, we're doing that with Mike Shanahan, and I'm excited about where we're going."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2011/01/snyder_on_maturing_as_an_owner.html

Seems like Mike Shanahan is placed in the same sentence as Joe Gibbs, hmmm I wonder where all the scuttlebutting is coming from? Maybe a rat that is out for revenge and trying to sabotage the team? I think Florio's source and others is none other than:


Vinny Cerrato

[pimpumd]

Thats awesome. Was the Lsat a beast? Where did you got to Law School?

I honestly could care less about the rushing attack in 2008. Zorn the rushing all of it at this point is meaning less. All I know is I'm sick of the media making up stories every other week.

I don't remember much about the LSAT except the logic games portion was a pain in the ass. The problems were interesting, but the time constraints kind of sucked. I went to Catholic University for law school, but I'm a terp at heart (where I got my B.S.)

I could care less about 08 as well. The only reason I said what I did about Zorn's rushing attack was because I just remember how 08 finished and how all of 09 went. Too many recollections of 8 or 9 men in the box and getting stuffed routinely. These media stories are ridiculous, too. I have a hard time believing that Snyder could still be so stupid when it comes to the need for coaching stability given the last 10 years, but I guess you never know with him.

[Skinzfever2010]

I don't remember much about the LSAT except the logic games portion was a pain in the ass. The problems were interesting, but the time constraints kind of sucked. I went to Catholic University for law school, but I'm a terp at heart (where I got my B.S.)

I could care less about 08 as well. The only reason I said what I did about Zorn's rushing attack was because I just remember how 08 finished and how all of 09 went. Too many recollections of 8 or 9 men in the box and getting stuffed routinely. These media stories are ridiculous, too. I have a hard time believing that Snyder could still be so stupid when it comes to the need for coaching stability given the last 10 years, but I guess you never know with him.

WOW, so you don't remember your preparation for the test? I know some people who are loosing their minds trying to get ready for it. Thats really cool though.

Dan really brought this on himself. However, lately he has been saying the right things. Season II should be allot better (at least I hope).

HAIL!

[icbmayday]

That is just media hype no facts