What would be fair/acceptable to move up to the 5th (Arizona's pick) from the 10th?

[skinsarethebest]

First of all, I am not advocating that we should move up in the draft, since it seems like 80% of the people are favoring trading BACK. But I'm sure people on this board will blast this post anyway.

With that caveat, I'm wondering what you guys would consider fair for us to give up in order to move up to the fifth pick? Assuming we do want to take a QB in the draft (even with Luck out of the picture), and knowing how much of our future success will be QB-dependent, doesn't it make sense to try to be in the driver's seat when picking a QB (5th pick), rather than just picking through the leftovers (10th pick).

Obviously, not everyone shares these assumptions (i.e., that QB should be our pick in Rd 1), but if you don't, just please don't post, instead of cluttering this thread with snide remarks.

Does anyone think McNabb + our 1st rounder (10th pick) would be enough to get the job done? What about McNabb + Haynesworth + our 1st rounder? Or is that in fact way too much that we're giving up? If so, what about us trading spots in Rounds 1 and 2 with AZ (i.e., getting the 5th in exchange for the 10th and the 37th in exchange for the 42nd) with us throwing in DMac and AH as the kicker? Is that unrealistic?

I honestly don't know, so I'm asking you guys what your opinion would be as to what could get this done, hopefully without trading away next year's 1st or 2nd rounder, or even any additional picks in this year's draft.

Hail.

[skinfan2k]

In reality, there isn't a prospect that the Redskins need to trade up for. Gabbert is a mid 1st round choice and doesn't warrant to be a top 5 selection. This team has simply too many needs to be forking over more draft picks. There isn't a Luck or Bradford in this draft

[GEAUX SAINTS]

It would take a lot more then just McNabb
http://walterfootball.com/draftchart.php



In reality, there isn't a prospect that the Redskins need to trade up for. Gabbert is a mid 1st round choice and doesn't warrant to be a top 5 selection. This team has simply too many needs to be forking over more draft picks. There isn't a Luck or Bradford in this draft
I think that if Fairley drops he could be worth it as long as it isn't ridiculous

[skinsarethebest]

It would take a lot more then just McNabb
http://walterfootball.com/draftchart.php

Interesting... based on that chart, it seems the Skins 1st (at 10) and 2nd (at 42) combined in a package would be roughly a fair trade for the single AZ 1st round pick at 10... Hmm, steep price, if you ask me

[darknessplayas]

If Luck entered the draft and there was a realistic chance to get him, I wouldn't mind the Skins doing whatever it take to trade up and get him. But with Luck out of the picture, everyone else is just average, whoever the Skins get at the 10th spot doesn't matter to me anymore with so many holes on the team.

[skinsarethebest]

But I do think it would make a huge difference to be able to have your pick of the QB crop vs. having the leftovers.... Hmmm, I guess if I'd see if AZ would take DM and AH and our 10th pick. If they would, I'd pull the trigger on that and call it a day. At least it would be killing two birds with one stone, since we'd be ending all that drama from those two players.

[Drew_Fl]

why would we trade up in the first place???

[skinsarethebest]

why would we trade up in the first place???

The fifth will be in position to select the QB of its choosing. The teams between AZ and us (including AZ, actually) are precisely the ones that are projected to be hunting for a QB in the draft.

[SkinsFanMania]

Stay at 10 and if Shanny wants a Locker or Gabbert, I'd be ok with it, even with all the other holes on our team. A few years ago the Giants chose Jake Long instead of Matt Ryan. Miami may be a much better team with Matt Ryan and using FA or another draft pick to take a tackle.

[Drew_Fl]

The fifth will be in position to select the QB of its choosing. The teams between AZ and us (including AZ, actually) are precisely the ones that are projected to be hunting for a QB in the draft.

At this point, we are like irresponsible people that keep spending more money when they have crazy high credit card debt when it comes to draft picks. Just stick with what we have and get the best player we can without giving up more.

[Blue Collar Skins]

I really do not see anyone worth trading up to what it would cost to move up to #5.

[KDawg]

I'd say that no Luck means no trade up.

[teflon don]

Trade McNabb and Al for some picks next year so we have some ammo to move up for Luck. IMO

[redskindan07]

Stay at #10 and fill a need

[SkinsCrushCowboys]

no need to trade up...trad down for more picks if anything

[DavidGQ]

MCNabb will be traded to one of the teams that is ahead of us who needs a QB. I don't think we need to trade up or down. We should pick the best one that comes to us, just like Orakpo did 2 yrs ago. You never know with FA signings and Combine. I remember last year Suh was predicted to be #1 pick for a while before Bradford moved up on a lot of Analysts' draft board.

[daveakl]

Can't trade players until there is a new CBA. Only picks at this point.

[skinfan2k]

MCNabb will be traded to one of the teams that is ahead of us who needs a QB. I don't think we need to trade up or down. We should pick the best one that comes to us, just like Orakpo did 2 yrs ago. You never know with FA signings and Combine. I remember last year Suh was predicted to be #1 pick for a while before Bradford moved up on a lot of Analysts' draft board.

Bradford was always #1. the media and analysts dont know anything

[isle-hawg]

Trading up would prove the FO are still in the marketing business to sell jerseys and have no ****ing clue as to how to win championships.

[texasthunder]

May be in the minority here-
but if there is a QB that you really believe is going to be a future franchise player then you have to trade up.
And trading up with Arizona makes the most sense. They need a veteran and we have one with his bags packed.
Swap our first round picks, trade Mcnabb and a fifth round pick for the rights to grab the future qb.

Just remember that Jay Cutler was the third rated qb in the 2006 draft, and Shanahan traded up from 15 to 11 to draft Cutler.

[Hooper]

Whisenhunt thinks very little of McNabb.

He wanted Bulger last year but the owner wouldn't ante up.

I suspect that may change this year.

[GEAUX SAINTS]

Bradford was always #1. the media and analysts dont know anything
Wasn't Clausen (lol) #1 until Bradford showed that his shoulder was fine?



Whisenhunt thinks very little of McNabb.

He wanted Bulger last year but the owner wouldn't ante up.

I suspect that may change this year.
Do you have any proof of that? Also Bulger was a FA who got a 1 year 3.8 million contract, how can you not ante up for that?

[sknz45]

I don't see the need to trade up for anyone in this draft...we have so many holes to fill we should sit tight at 10 or trade down.

[skinsarethebest]

May be in the minority here-
but if there is a QB that you really believe is going to be a future franchise player then you have to trade up.
And trading up with Arizona makes the most sense. They need a veteran and we have one with his bags packed.
Swap our first round picks, trade Mcnabb and a fifth round pick for the rights to grab the future qb.

Just remember that Jay Cutler was the third rated qb in the 2006 draft, and Shanahan traded up from 15 to 11 to draft Cutler.

I'm with you 100% on this one. I just hope McNabb + something as low as a 5th rounder is enough of a sweetener for Arizona to agree....

[stevemcqueen1]

I think we might actually have the 41st pick instead of the 42nd. Not that it makes a ton of difference according to the TVC. It's a difference of 10 points.

Moving up from 10 to 5 according to the TVC is a difference of 400 points. That's roughly our second round pick if they give us their fourth round pick in return. I don't really like that deal at all so I wouldn't do it.

Maybe a better value would be the tenth pick and a package of players and future picks. This is an extremely good class, so I don't want to lose picks in it. The tenth pick plus McNabb, plus a future third doesn't sound bad at all. But the thing is, Arizona has to want to trade down in the first place.

I'd consider it if I were them. At 10, they're in a better range to take Nate Solder or Derek Sherrod as one of the elite OTs. Or they could get an elite DB or DL there. The deal I might insist on if I were them would be the tenth pick, McNabb, Cooley, and then offer a mid round pick in addition to the first (either 61 or 101).

[S.T.real,lights,out]

IMO there is no one worth really trading up for and losing out on picks. So i wouldn't even consider doing it.

[Burgold]

Haynesworth-- a sure thing and pro bowler top five Defensive tackle and McNabb pro bowl qb and future HOFer for a draft prospect (their no. 5) and we keep the ten. We'd be getting killed given proven value for an unknown, but I might let Arizona if they take us up on it. Clock is ticking.

[addicted]

If this team trades up it's going to cost our 2nd round pick this year or our 1st next year or a package of players the other team deems it worth a 2nd round player. No McNabb is not enough to equal that 2nd rounder. For that matter there is no reason for this team to try and move up in the draft this year with the rebuilding project needed but with comments like this


Obviously, not everyone shares these assumptions (i.e., that QB should be our pick in Rd 1), but if you don't, just please don't post, instead of cluttering this thread with snide remarks.

Makes me think your not interested in a real debate about this at all. You've made up your mind already and aren't listening to other opinions anyway so I don't understand why you'd post this in the first place unless you just wanted some reinforcement on this idea from fellow cheerleaders.

The answer is you don't trade up period. To turn this around you need more picks not less

[GibbsFactor]

Interesting... based on that chart, it seems the Skins 1st (at 10) and 2nd (at 42) combined in a package would be roughly a fair trade for the single AZ 1st round pick at 10... Hmm, steep price, if you ask me

Remember, that chart is from the early 90s and is said to be out of date. Less weight is given to the top 5 due to the price in signing him. Things may even up to that chart if the CBA is done with a rookie scale.

Since we can't trade and probably won't be able to past April (looks bad for football next year) draft picks then become the only commodity at the table. It would take our first and second or some combination thereof. Too steep unless you are 100% that the player you want is a sure NFL star. And with this crop, there's just no way to be sure. Too risky.

[cphil006]

I'd say that no Luck means no trade up.

I agree... even if he was coming out, he may go #1... depends on who is there at #5, and I don't see anyone worth it being left to trade up..

[The Slamming Butcher]

I really do not see anyone worth trading up to what it would cost to move up to #5.

This.

[skinsarethebest]

If this team trades up it's going to cost our 2nd round pick this year or our 1st next year or a package of players the other team deems it worth a 2nd round player. No McNabb is not enough to equal that 2nd rounder. For that matter there is no reason for this team to try and move up in the draft this year with the rebuilding project needed but with comments like this



Makes me think your not interested in a real debate about this at all. You've made up your mind already and aren't listening to other opinions anyway so I don't understand why you'd post this in the first place unless you just wanted some reinforcement on this idea from fellow cheerleaders.

The answer is you don't trade up period. To turn this around you need more picks not less

Lol, that's EXACTLY right... I really didn't want this thread to be a debate about trading up. vs. staying put vs. trading down.... Someone else can feel free to create a discussion on that. I did precisely want to limit it to a thread about assessing what sort of "ammo"/sweetener would be needed to induce AZ to make the deal.... But it seems like 90% of the board ignored my limitation and chimed in anyway that trading up's no good....

Don't take it the wrong way, please. I'm not at all against debate. I just believe in focusing the topic properly. Even still, very few on this thread actually bothered to respond to the question as to what it would take. Other questions (should we do it in the first place?) I wanted to leave for another discussion/thread....

Oh well....

Hail.

[TankRizzo]

Luck is the only thing worth trading up for, and that would have been far too costly. Now we need to try to move down.

[AKM311]

Lol, that's EXACTLY right... I really didn't want this thread to be a debate about trading up. vs. staying put vs. trading down.... Someone else can feel free to create a discussion on that. I did precisely want to limit it to a thread about assessing what sort of "ammo"/sweetener would be needed to induce AZ to make the deal.... But it seems like 90% of the board ignored my limitation and chimed in anyway that trading up's no good....

Don't take it the wrong way, please. I'm not at all against debate. I just believe in focusing the topic properly. Even still, very few on this thread actually bothered to respond to the question as to what it would take. Other questions (should we do it in the first place?) I wanted to leave for another discussion/thread....

Oh well....

Hail.

No offense bud, but your topic would never be discussed just on Ammo. Why? Because there is no real discussion then. Arizona needs that 5th pick and a new veteran QB. Trading our trash isn't going to intice Arizona to trade the 5th pick.

If McNabb is traded, it will be for a mid round pick at best. Everyone knows hes trash to us, so why would someone pay diamonds for trash? I think that is why no one is discussing your topic.

Also, this is Extremeskins. Just like you want people to discuss your topic, we want people to stop creating threads that have been discussed in a million other threads.

[brutality]

There's nothing worth trading up for now that Luck isn't in the draft. Don't see the point in trading up for a QB that isn't a surefire franchise player with so many other holes to fill. If we improve enough next year we draft a QB and if we're just as bad or worse, then maybe we'll even be in position to take Luck. I think some people forget that when you draft a QB that high, your stuck with that guy for at least 3 yrs I would say, and if he's not the answer you end up setting your team back quite a bit. Much rather trade down pick up players that we know can fill some holes. If we stay put, I see us ending up with Julio Jones more than likely. Whether we draft a QB or bring in some FAs, whoever is under center still needs legitimate #1 WR to target. I think MK would be a good #2 if he can even get healthy and then have Armstrong in the slot cause he makes those tough catches. Trade Moss to a receiver needy team, preferably a contender cause I feel like we should do right by him.

Anyway, off-topic, so for the sake of this thread, if we were to trade up to 5th...McNabb + Haynesworth + #10 pick for #5 pick + AZ's 3rd rounder. I don't care if McNabb had a bad year, he's still a franchise QB that's capable of at least getting you deep into the playoffs even if he'll probably never when it all. He's not the most accurate passer but he makes big plays and that's all u need when you are throwing to Fitzgerald. I wouldn't give him up for anything less than a 2nd rounder or maybe like a 3rd + 4th/5th. On another note though, this trade will never happen cause AZ plays a 3-4 and we know Haynesworthless is exactly that in the system, worthless. McNabb + our 1st isn't gonna get the job done, and there's nothing else we have to offer AZ. So to answer the question, trading up to #5 is unacceptable in itself. It shouldn't even be a thought, and if it is, then this franchise is still heading in the wrong direction and I'll just give up all hope for this team.

I'm still more concerned whether there's even going to be football next year. :cool:

[redskins4ever28]

In my own opinion I think Shanny wants Locker. I also think he will drop beyond the top 5. I believe we can actually trade Mcnabb +Haynesworth + 1st rd to the Titans for their 1st rd pick and take Locker. I think Ten is what 7? I may be wrong. But I believe we need to jump Minnesota to get Locker.

EDIT:
Nevermind Min is not even in the top 10, so we should be able to take Locker @ 10.
Also, for the people saying not to trade up, its completely understandable, I just think the original poster was playing devils advocate and saying that "theoretically" IF we did trade up to AZ's spot, what would we need to trade.
I figure the QBs gone before we get to pick are going to be Gabbert, Mallet, Newton, and we snag up Locker. Or, if Tennesee does feel like they want a QB, then we need to trade them mcnabb and hayney to get him. Locker is an excellent QB. He had a bad year but his team is awful. I think with the right practice this guy could be Aaron Rodgers Jr.

[ExoDus84]

I don't think Locker goes top 10. His stock fell this year. Looks like the top QB pick may be...what, Mallet? There are some decent QB's, but now that Luck is out, there doesn't seem to be any home runs. Man, I wish we could have grabbed Bradford last year, though.

[pjfootballer]

Stay at 10 and if Shanny wants a Locker or Gabbert, I'd be ok with it, even with all the other holes on our team. A few years ago the Giants chose Jake Long instead of Matt Ryan. Miami may be a much better team with Matt Ryan and using FA or another draft pick to take a tackle.

Gabbert for me. I don't want any part of Locker. I think he's another Alex Smith.

[skinsarethebest]

No offense bud, but your topic would never be discussed just on Ammo. Why? Because there is no real discussion then. Arizona needs that 5th pick and a new veteran QB. Trading our trash isn't going to intice Arizona to trade the 5th pick.

If McNabb is traded, it will be for a mid round pick at best. Everyone knows hes trash to us, so why would someone pay diamonds for trash? I think that is why no one is discussing your topic.

Also, this is Extremeskins. Just like you want people to discuss your topic, we want people to stop creating threads that have been discussed in a million other threads.

So my topic, which is specifically focused on what would constitute fair value that would justify AZ to exchange draft spots with us, has already been discussed on a billion other threads... But the topic you keep insisting belongs in a thread you didn't even create (i.e., why trading up isn't even a good idea) hasn't been?..

I don't think so

And as for whether or not McNabb + AH = "trash" and therefore not worthy of a deal with AZ, well, sorry, not everyone on this board is on a consensus on that one either

so, no offense, but I think you're mistaken on both counts....