Do you agree with WP ranking of 2012 Republican candidates?

[Rdskns2000]

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/the-line/skipping-iowa.html

Well, they ranked the Top 10 potential 2012 Republican candidates; agree or disagree.

10. Rick Santorum
9. Jon Huntsman
8. John Thune
7. Mitch Daniels
6. Haley Barbour
5. Tim Pawlenty
4. Mike Huckabee
3. Newt Gingrich
2. Sarah Palin
1. Mitt Romney


Kind of sad what they say about Sarah Palin because it's true. She could win those states just on Tea Party support alone.

Right now, I don't think Obama has to worry about the most likely potential opponents; his worry is the economy and unemployment. That needs to improve dramatically for him to get 4 more years.

[Devastate]

Well you also have to realize that there will be a Democratic Primary and Obama may not win it. I almost think if Hillary was to run against him in the primary that she would win... It wouldn't stop him from running again but it would send a strong message to the voters that the party doesn't support him so I think his own party may become an obsticle for getting 4 more years as well. I think the chances of this are slim but if the state of things hasn't improved by the time the prims come around I think we could see a coup in the Dem party.

[Burgold]

Wow! One post and this is about Obama. Impressive.

Personally, I'm more amazed that Rick Santorum is still in the top ten than Sarah is at No. 2. Palin is a huge voice and omnipresent. I think she'll implode in the debates and interviews... I think her support is wide, but shallow. Santorum was about as deep in scandal as a politician could be and left in huge disgrace and controversy

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Well you also have to realize that there will be a Democratic Primary and Obama may not win it. I almost think if Hillary was to run against him in the primary that she would win... It wouldn't stop him from running again but it would send a strong message to the voters that the party doesn't support him so I think his own party may become an obsticle for getting 4 more years as well. I think the chances of this are slim but if the state of things hasn't improved by the time the prims come around I think we could see a coup in the Dem party.

I've seen this mentioned on a couple of blogs but there is absolutely no chance this happens. And there is 0 chance Hillary would do something like that. For one, any primary challenge would come from the very liberal side of the party. Hillary isn't exactly a raging liberal. Someone like Kucinich is more their type.


And I really, really do not think Palin is a legitimate candidate. Well I hope not anyway :( (Though part of me wishes she would get the nomination as she would be absolutely destroyed in the general. Double digit loss for sure.)

[twa]

Waste of time,but I find Newt @3 and their assertion he will definitely run a stretch
The combination of who will run is more critical...too many wild cards(and I expect one to be played)

I agree O has more pressing worries....as should we

[SnyderShrugged]

what is that? A list of who's who among establishment neo-cons?

[The Brave Little Toaster Oven]

If Hillary ran, I would probably vote for her over the current list of GOP'ers.

If Obama ran, I would have to vote for one of those GOP'ers.

[thebluefood]

I read an article on the Post's website about a fellow who was thinking about running for the GOP nomination. I cannot remember his name, but I believe he's the ambassador to China and a centrist. Seemed like an interesting candidate.

Edit: It was Huntsman.

[Califan007]

Wow! One post and this is about Obama. Impressive.


It became about Obama in the OP, not the first post:

"Right now, I don't think Obama has to worry about the most likely potential opponents; his worry is the economy and unemployment. That needs to improve dramatically for him to get 4 more years."

---------- Post added January-29th-2011 at 09:24 AM ----------

As for the topic, they're delusional if they think Palin is the 2nd most likely to become the GOP candidate for President...at MOST she'll end up as another Ross Perot. And Gingrich has too much baggage to survive the primaries and make it as the GOP candidate. His Repub rivals and especially the press will feast on that baggage.

[ACW]

10. Rick Santorum: Big-gov't conservative. No thanks.
9. Jon Huntsman: Don't know enough,
8. John Thune: Ditto (I know he's a Senator; that's it),
7. Mitch Daniels: He might work,
6. Haley Barbour: No thank you.
5. Tim Pawlenty: Maybe.
4. Mike Huckabee: See Santorum
3. Newt Gingrich: Ugh, this bigoted jackass? No thanks.
2. Sarah Palin: I'd rather have Obama again.
1. Mitt Romney: Too blah.

I'd prefer Gary Johnson.

[Burgold]

It became about Obama in the OP, not the first post:

"Right now, I don't think Obama has to worry about the most likely potential opponents; his worry is the economy and unemployment. That needs to improve dramatically for him to get 4 more years."

---------- Post added January-29th-2011 at 09:24 AM ----------

As for the topic, they're delusional if they think Palin is the 2nd most likely to become the GOP candidate for President...at MOST she'll end up as another Ross Perot. And Gingrich has too much baggage to survive the primaries and make it as the GOP candidate. His Repub rivals and especially the press will feast on that baggage.

Your probably right about that. I think this thread would be a lot more fun and educational if it was about who people thought were the best and brightest (or most worthy) in the Republican or conservative spectrum.

[luckydevil]

Huckabee should be higher. He is going to give Romney a lot of headaches.

[Buford]

I think there is a bigger chance that Clinton replaces Biden as VP than a real Dem primary.

However, I think the GOP primary is going scorched earth Especially if Newt and Palin are running. Its going to be like a WWF PPV.

[Bliz]

In a list of "most likely to be Pub nominee" Palin is no higher than 5th, particularly assuming Huckabee is in the race.

Palin is unelectable, and Republicans know it. It's as simple as that. Make her the nominee and you guarantee Obama a victory. Her negatives among independents and moderates are insurmountable.

[twa]

Your probably right about that. I think this thread would be a lot more fun and educational if it was about who people thought were the best and brightest (or most worthy) in the Republican or conservative spectrum.

John MF Bolton

Or we could put Dick back in the WH :evilg:

[Burgold]

John MF Bolton

Or we could put Dick back in the WH :evilg:

You want to bring back Nixon? I thought Republicans were against cloning?

[twa]

Cheney is going bionic,but I'd prefer the stache

2013 will mark 100 years of naked-faced presidents ....this wussification of America must end

added
I can hear the whining now, Have you no heart sir?....Nope,I'm the Six Million Dollar Dick

[nonniey]

Wow! One post and this is about Obama. Impressive.

Personally, I'm more amazed that Rick Santorum is still in the top ten than Sarah is at No. 2. Palin is a huge voice and omnipresent. I think she'll implode in the debates and interviews... I think her support is wide, but shallow. Santorum was about as deep in scandal as a politician could be and left in huge disgrace and controversy

Do you have the right guy? I think you may be thinking about Delay, as the only scandal Santorum was linked were accusations over his kid attendence at a Charter school.

[Rdskns2000]

Well you also have to realize that there will be a Democratic Primary and Obama may not win it. I almost think if Hillary was to run against him in the primary that she would win... It wouldn't stop him from running again but it would send a strong message to the voters that the party doesn't support him so I think his own party may become an obsticle for getting 4 more years as well. I think the chances of this are slim but if the state of things hasn't improved by the time the prims come around I think we could see a coup in the Dem party.

Hillary will not run in 2012. Things will have to get much worse for the Dems to have someone run and win the nomination from Obama and that isn't happening.

---------- Post added January-30th-2011 at 12:15 AM ----------


John MF Bolton

Or we could put Dick back in the WH :evilg:

Cheney needs a new heart, he isn't running.

[Teller]

First off, Hillary's done a far better job than I ever expected. I still don't want her in the big chair, but I've been fairly impressed with how she's handled one of the most important, and difficult, jobs on earth.

Second, I love me some Huckabee, but he's killed himself politically with the show on Fox, IMO. And his wallet is probably a good bit heavier, so I don't see him making another run.

Third, there isn't anyone on that list that I find myself ready to run through a brick wall to support. Pawlenty is probably the closest, but I probably won't get really pumped until the McDonnell 2016 campaign gets underway.

[twa]

They said that even before he got sick.

He has a artificial one

added
On a more serious note

Could you imagine the Dem attacks on Huntsman?
Clearly they couldn't go the idiot route so evil capitalist genius would be dragged out.
I'd like to see him,Bolton and Newt in the running just to step up the level of debate.

[chipwhich]

First off, Hillary's done a far better job than I ever expected. I still don't want her in the big chair, but I've been fairly impressed with how she's handled one of the most important, and difficult, jobs on earth.


Stop being a suckup and fence waffler. What has she done that impresses you so much? Seriously, your fence walking and suckling to try to be a attaboy is getting old.

Call it like it is, or get off the fence post. I need to make friends, so I will make politically positive commentary.

What exactly has she done that is so impressive? Please.

[Duckus]

Well you also have to realize that there will be a Democratic Primary and Obama may not win it. I almost think if Hillary was to run against him in the primary that she would win... It wouldn't stop him from running again but it would send a strong message to the voters that the party doesn't support him so I think his own party may become an obsticle for getting 4 more years as well. I think the chances of this are slim but if the state of things hasn't improved by the time the prims come around I think we could see a coup in the Dem party.

?

No.

[chipwhich]

?

No.

Gotta agree with you here. Uhhhh no.

[twa]

What exactly has she done that is so impressive? Please.

Not be stupid

Interviewer: “But now, Madam Secretary, there is a very strong warning of war looming in the whole area, which is going to be pulling in Hamas, Hizbullah, the Iranians, Israel, and all kinds of factions from all over the region. And this time, they are not talking about skirmishes. They are talking about a large-scale war with many more casualties. How seriously should we take this warning?”

Hillary Clinton: “I’m aware of the drum beats, and I think that those, unfortunately, are being created for very cynical purposes. Let’s just be very blunt here, because I like to be as clear as I can. I think that there is very little doubt that Iran does not want to see any kind of negotiated peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians. For its own purposes, it wants to keep its attention of what the big concern for the future, which is a nuclear-armed Iran, with weapons that threaten its neighbors and beyond. So if they can shift attention away from their own internal decisions about whether or not to pursue and produce nuclear weapons, they will be very happy about that. And we cannot let that attention get diverted, and we cannot let any outside influence case a conflict in the Middle East, which would be disastrous for everyone.” […]
http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/2768.htm

[Fergasun]

My favorite GOPer right now is Coburn. I've always thought that Newt was unelectable, but when put next to Palin, he ain't half bad. I ended up voting for Romney in the primaries 4 years ago. Daniels and Pawlenty are intriguing. Right now I'd give consideration to any candidate who holds Coburn's endorsement (pending who that will be). I think Coburn would be a pretty decent VP. He shot up in my book quite a bit based on his questioning of Elena Kagan, he was polite and thoughtful. Even though he is as right wing as they come, he wasn't disrespectful like other Senators *cough*Sessions*cough*. I hope that Rand Paul turns out to be more like Coburn... of course its easy to be polite when you don't have much opposition in your district. Given the guy I like most isn't running (not his fault, I wouldn't want to be President)... not sure what I'm going to do.

Voting for 4 more years of Obama would not be a bad choice if the GOP is going to re-take the Senate...

[Hubbs]

I'm dead serious when I say that I'll happily put up $500 on PayPal against anyone who thinks that Romney or Palin will be elected. I'd love to make $500 that easily.

[NoCalMike]

I thought there were rumblings about that one guy Chris Christie...is that his name?

[Toe Jam]

Obama will beat any of those candidates handily.

Republicans suck and America knows it. The 2010 elections were a blip on the screen.

[Elessar78]

No. Its just hard to say. Huckabee, Gingrich and their SEC cohorts have a stronger strengh of schedule. While Rick "Big Ten" Santorum is gonna look good in primaries but he'll never show up on election day. Romney and Palin never play anyone good. In short, we need a playoff.

[ACW]

I thought there were rumblings about that one guy Chris Christie...is that his name?I don't think he's running.

[Veretax]

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/the-line/skipping-iowa.html

Well, they ranked the Top 10 potential 2012 Republican candidates; agree or disagree.

10. Rick Santorum
9. Jon Huntsman
8. John Thune
7. Mitch Daniels
6. Haley Barbour
5. Tim Pawlenty
4. Mike Huckabee
3. Newt Gingrich
2. Sarah Palin
1. Mitt Romney


It's widely believed that Pawlenty, and Romney will run, I've not heard anything about the others. And I pray to God Newt stays out of it. The guy is sometimes clever, but He's a major risk IMO. I like Huckabee, but he better not run again. I think he's damaged pretty badly from 2008. I'm still waiting on Palin to say she's in or not until you says otherwise, I'm keeping my options open.

[Rdskns2000]

They said that even before he got sick.

He has a artificial one

added
On a more serious note

Could you imagine the Dem attacks on Huntsman?
Clearly they couldn't go the idiot route so evil capitalist genius would be dragged out.
I'd like to see him,Bolton and Newt in the running just to step up the level of debate.

Cheney still has his old ticker, they implanted a pump or somewhat thing to help him with his heart. Cheney said himself in a recent interview that he probably will need a new heart. I think it was on Meet the Press.

[twa]

Facts have a way of interfering with the stupid jokes....roll with me here.

Old men are not prime candidates for transplants,nor should we be

[deejaydana]

I would eliminate Palin from that list as well as Romney, they're both failures from the past cycle. I'm not even sure Palin would want the chance, at least I pray she passes on it. Gingrich, while he's very intelligent, may be too divisive though he did a great job collaborating with Clinton back in 1996. I don't know enough about the others to comment.

[skinfan13]

I'm voting for Thomas Jefferson again if any of those guys make it on the GOP ticket.

[twa]

Any of the 10?
Just who do you want?

[skinfan13]

Any of the 10?
Just who do you want?

I think I'd be happy with Coburn or Pence, maybe... That's a big maybe. In my heart of hearts I'd want Ron Paul, but we all know this is incredibly unlikely. My dream candidate doesn't exist: A vibrant, young person who can express most of the libertarian/conservative ideas that Ron Paul espouses without sounding like and coming off as a crazy old man. Ron Paul is simply past his prime, the Liberty movement needs someone younger and more articulate to carry the standard. That person has not been found yet, and therefore until that person shows up, I'll continue to pencil in the name Thomas Jefferson. Actually, I might mix things up a bit and vote for Coolidge in this election.

[Hubbs]

It's widely believed that Pawlenty, and Romney will run, I've not heard anything about the others. And I pray to God Newt stays out of it. The guy is sometimes clever, but He's a major risk IMO. I like Huckabee, but he better not run again. I think he's damaged pretty badly from 2008. I'm still waiting on Palin to say she's in or not until you says otherwise, I'm keeping my options open.

How was Huckabee damaged in 2008? He wasn't expected to be a major player, yet managed to turn into one, and a lot of people believe that he's the reason Romney didn't win. I'd actually give him some of the best odds of anyone on the list in the OP.

Also, you might want to re-think your hopes for Newt. I don't think he has a shot in hell of actually getting nominated, but if he runs he'll add an interesting voice and some creative ideas to the debates that other candidates will be forced to address.


I think I'd be happy with Coburn or Pence, maybe... That's a big maybe. In my heart of hearts I'd want Ron Paul, but we all know this is incredibly unlikely. My dream candidate doesn't exist: A vibrant, young person who can express most of the libertarian/conservative ideas that Ron Paul espouses without sounding like and coming off as a crazy old man. Ron Paul is simply past his prime, the Liberty movement needs someone younger and more articulate to carry the standard. That person has not been found yet, and therefore until that person shows up, I'll continue to pencil in the name Thomas Jefferson. Actually, I might mix things up a bit and vote for Coolidge in this election.

Gary Johnson's younger, at least.

[Wrong Direction]

The problem with the GOP field is nobody stands out but the top four, but none of them are particularly hot candidates. You could add Jindal, Bolton, Guiliani and Bachmann as well. I think Pawlenty and Thune are both risers. A lot of people like Daniels and Barbour as well, but none of the four are known nationally. I guess that's what primaries are for.

I'd vote for any of Jindal, Guiliani, Thune, Pawlenty, Newt, Daniels, Barbour and Romney before I ever voted for Obama, so I"m not really pressed.

In the end, the real question is whether Christie decides to run. If he does, he's the odds on favorite to win the nomination.

[Ron78]

I like Newt Gingrich and Allen West more than any of the other candidates. For different reasons though, I am not confident that either of them is electable.

[twa]

I'd donate to a West run just for the entertainment value

[Ron78]

I'd donate to a West run just for the entertainment value

What would be entertaining about it for you?

[twa]

Peoples reactions

[boston skins fan]

Third, there isn't anyone on that list that I find myself ready to run through a brick wall to support. Pawlenty is probably the closest, but I probably won't get really pumped until the McDonnell 2016 campaign gets underway.

I completly agree and it pains me to say this but i think the GOP might not run a great candidate cause i think they want a McDonnell or I think a better candidate Scott Brown in 16.

Brown is making moves within the party and is becoming a rising name.

[Fergasun]

They wouldn't want McConnell or Brown (he'd never make it through the primary). GOP may be angling for Christie in 2016. I know some people who have a political theory that the parties will intentionally throw presidential elections now for the next one. Of course they said that McCain was a "throw the game" candidate in 2008. It seems like the GOP maintains their lead in the House and picks up the Senate... I'd rather have divided government than give one party all 3 branches. I say "one party" as if there were real, meaningful differences between the parties. Okay; there are some but there's enough similarities. One piece of legislation (health care reform) sticks out in my mind as kind've a "moons aligning" event.

[mardi gras skin]

At this point, I think I like Pawlenty the most. I just read this article over at Real Clear Politics and he comes out sounding like a solid leader:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2011/01/31/steel_deal_reveals_pawlentys_priorities_on_securit y_jobs_108711.html

But if we get a Republican controlled House and Senate, I would rather Obama stay on as president.

[twa]

In somewhat related news
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/48533.html

Jon M. Huntsman Jr., the U.S. ambassador to China, sent a resignation letter to President Barack Obama on Monday, the White House said. Huntsman now is likely to explore a Republican presidential bid, according to supporters.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/48533.html#ixzz1CiGt561I
Huntsman boasts the most foreign policy experience of any of the likely GOP candidates, and would be a formidable entry to the unformed GOP field. He had a fiscally conservative record as governor, opposes abortion and is a strong supporter of gun owners’ rights.

The ambassador has moderate views on gay rights and the environment, which would be an asset in a general election but could be a hurdle in the primaries. In a campaign, Huntsman could be expected to point out that he has created jobs in both the private and public sectors.

[DRSmith]

Interesting now with two Mormons in the raise what does the religous right do.

[SnyderShrugged]

Interesting now with two Mormons in the raise what does the religous right do.


You seem way to hung up on the fact that some are Mormons. I really doubt that a candidate's religion would have much impact on most voters. Of course, there will always be some who make that an issue, but it's not a huge percentage of the overall voting population

It's their principles, historical actions and future plans that most are concerned with.

[DRSmith]

You seem way to hung up on the fact that some are Mormons. I really doubt that a candidate's religion would have much impact on most voters. Of course, there will always be some who make that an issue, but it's not a huge percentage of the overall voting population

It's their principles, historical actions and future plans that most are concerned with.

Because I watched what happened when Romney won I have seen the things said about Mormons, the question does the religous right ignore it?

If people's religion did not matter in Ameirca then there would be no talk of Obama being Muslim

[ZoEd]

I'm not in the loop as much as most of you guys and really don't follow candidates until it's closer to election time. But for me, the Republican that I really like is Michael Steele. I have yet to see this guy talk and really disagree with anything he says. I don't know too much about his platform or where he stands on all issues but I think he's a likable guy that people could get behind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Steele

[DRSmith]

I'm not in the loop as much as most of you guys and really don't follow candidates until it's closer to election time. But for me, the Republican that I really like is Michael Steele. I have yet to see this guy talk and really disagree with anything he says. I don't know too much about his platform or where he stands on all issues but I think he's a likable guy that people could get behind.

They just ran him out as chair I do not see them getting behind as the nominee

[SnyderShrugged]

Because I watched what happened when Romney won I have seen the things said about Mormons, the question does the religous right ignore it?

If people's religion did not matter in Ameirca then there would be no talk of Obama being Muslim

You are applying normality to the fringe.

[DRSmith]

You are applying normality to the fringe.

Aka the base of the Republican party right now, the same people that think Palin and Bachmann are smart and Rush is being funny when making the a persons race an issue

[JohnLockesGhost]

Romney's just too plastic. Palin's just too vacuous. Huckabee's just too Magoo.

I really like Newt. He's brilliant, but I'm afraid his past makes him unelectable. Thune and Pawlenty should be your standard, cookie-cut, Republican candidates with nice families and haircuts. I'm interested in learning more about Huntsman.

I'll say something that should be a little controversial: I think, Barbour's southern accent makes him unelectable. If he were a Democrat it would be an asset, but not as a Republican.

I'd really like a dark horse to emerge that I can get behind like Jeff Flake.

[ZoEd]

They just ran him out as chair I do not see them getting behind as the nominee

I'm just saying I like the guy. And the reason they ran him out, kind of agree with what he said. I'm in the military and I don't agree with the way we're handling Afghanistan and I think it was a political move by Obama as well. Obama wanted to give the American people the illusion of "pulling out of Iraq" but all we did was move from one place to another. Once he gained office he realized we couldn't simply leave the Middle East but he made an attempt to please his base by "ending" the Iraq war. BTW, there are still a lot of us in Iraq and probably will be for a very long time. Just saying.

[twa]

As a religious rightie I have no problem with him....hell it's not like he's a Episcopalian:pfft:

JLG I think you will see some dark horses ,not familiar with Flake

[JohnLockesGhost]

As a religious rightie I have no problem with him....hell it's not like he's a Episcopalian:pfft:

JLG I think you will see some dark horses ,not familiar with Flake

Younger, well-spoken libertarian Congressman from Arizona.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNij_WFf8Ho&feature=relmfu

[Dan T.]

Where's Paul Ryan on the list? Isn't he considered a rising star? He was tapped to deliver the Republican response to Obama's SOTU address, he's from the heartland (Wisconsin), looks like a young Ronald Reagan, and is considered an influential conservative congressman, ...

Maybe he's too young for the top of the ticket, but could be a veep candidate.









---------- Post added February-1st-2011 at 09:22 AM ----------


I'm just saying I like the guy. And the reason they ran him out, kind of agree with what he said. I'm in the military and I don't agree with the way we're handling Afghanistan and I think it was a political move by Obama as well. Obama wanted to give the American people the illusion of "pulling out of Iraq" but all we did was move from one place to another. Once he gained office he realized we couldn't simply leave the Middle East but he made an attempt to please his base by "ending" the Iraq war. BTW, there are still a lot of us in Iraq and probably will be for a very long time. Just saying.

Steele might make a good vice presidential candidate, but realistically he's poison after getting dumped as RNC chair.

BTW, when you say Obama gave "the illusion of pulling out of Iraq" and "but all we did was move from one place to another" are you talking about the shift in focus to Afghanistan? You do know that he campaigned on doing just that, right? I don't think anybody thought we would just abruptly pull out of Iraq entirely. Didn't most everybody acknowledge that there would have to be a U.S. presence there even as the drawdown continued?

How would you have done things differently?

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

I'll say something that should be a little controversial: I think, Barbour's southern accent makes him unelectable.


Personally, I'm more concerned about some of his views on race relations. :2cents:

[Madison Redskin]

Where's Paul Ryan on the list? Isn't he considered a rising star? He was tapped to deliver the Republican response to Obama's SOTU address, he's from the heartland (Wisconsin), looks like a young Ronald Reagan, and is considered an influential conservative congressman, ...

Maybe he's too young for the top of the ticket, but could be a veep candidate.

I used to live is Madison, Wisconsin, so I am pretty familiar with Ryan. He is articulate, intelligent, and informed. When he speaks, I listen, even if I disagree with many of his positions. Ryan is someone to watch out for.

[twa]

And young,it will be interesting how he does as chairman

[December90]

At this point I think the ABO (Anyone But Obama) factor will be a key factor come election time. I give the WP little credibility when it comes to reporting on GOP politics. They have an agenda to keep BO in office and will push for the weakest GOP nominee. (Much like many in the GOP pushed for the weakest Democrat in 2008 and the result was we punished the country with the election of Obama:()

[Dan T.]

At this point I think the ABO (Anyone But Obama) factor will be a key factor come election time. I give the WP little credibility when it comes to reporting on GOP politics. They have an agenda to keep BO in office and will push for the weakest GOP nominee. (Much like many in the GOP pushed for the weakest Democrat in 2008 and the result was we punished the country with the election of Obama:()


What a crock of ****. Seriously, come up with your own list if you think the WP list is that agenda driven. And don't look now, but the whole "Anyone But Obama" thing is SO 2009.

[ZoEd]

Steele might make a good vice presidential candidate, but realistically he's poison after getting dumped as RNC chair.

BTW, when you say Obama gave "the illusion of pulling out of Iraq" and "but all we did was move from one place to another" are you talking about the shift in focus to Afghanistan? You do know that he campaigned on doing just that, right? I don't think anybody thought we would just abruptly pull out of Iraq entirely. Didn't most everybody acknowledge that there would have to be a U.S. presence there even as the drawdown continued?

How would you have done things differently?

We still have a pretty sizable footprint in Iraq but the media, 48K as of November 2010. That's more than a prescence. But the American people were appeased and it made Obama look good on his promise of withdraw. Since when is just under 50K a withdraw?

How would I do things differently? Afghanistan is the right move but why lie about the prescence in Iraq? It's bull**** political retoric. I knew in 2007, and even posted it here on ES, that we were never going to withdraw from Iraq and even stated that we will probably have a prescence there similiar to that in S Korea. As far as Afghanistan goes, I still feel as if our servicemembers hands are tied in terms of their ability to sufficiently do their job. When you allow political interests to interfere with military tactics you're fighting a losing battle.

I personally feel, if you're not going to allow the military to do the job the way it's supposed to be done then there's no sense fighting it, pull us out completely and bring us home. This has been going on for over 7 years, it's time to **** or get off the pot.

[Dan T.]

We still have a pretty sizable footprint in Iraq but the media, 48K as of November 2010. That's more than a prescence. But the American people were appeased and it made Obama look good on his promise of withdraw. Since when is just under 50K a withdraw?

How would I do things differently? Afghanistan is the right move but why lie about the prescence in Iraq? It's bull**** political retoric. I knew in 2007, and even posted it here on ES, that we were never going to withdraw from Iraq and even stated that we will probably have a prescence there similiar to that in S Korea. As far as Afghanistan goes, I still feel as if our servicemembers hands are tied in terms of their ability to sufficiently do their job. When you allow political interests to interfere with military tactics you're fighting a losing battle.

I personally feel, if you're not going to allow the military to do the job the way it's supposed to be done then there's no sense fighting it, pull us out completely and bring us home. This has been going on for over 7 years, it's time to **** or get off the pot.

Who is lying about the continued U.S. presence in Iraq?

As to Afghanistan, I agree that the situation is untenable there from a military standpoint. It was never going to be a conventional war there, and it is too much to ask the U.S. military to be soldiers fighting the Taliban in addition to peacekeepers, law enforcement officers, community conflict meditators, and disbursers of government largesse. But by the same token, I don't know how you can have the military "do its job the way it's supposed to be done" because it is not a conventional war there.