Education In America

[Chiefinonhaze]

Why have we gotten so behind? Countries like Latvia, Hungary, Luxemburg, Iceland, South Korea, and many others are ahead of us in education. This is unacceptable because we used to be 1st. What is the purpose of education?

[ConnSKINS26]

When were we ever "first" in education? Rich families sent their children overseas for better educations as recently as the beginning of the century, if I'm not mistaken.

[Burgold]

It's a multi-faceted question, but I think it boils down to three factors.

1) As a culture, Americans are content. Without that drive to succeed people don't challenge themselves to the same degree.
2) Teachers aren't respected. We look down on teachers in this country. The job is considered second class. The whole if you can't do then teach is all about disrespect. If children learn not to respect their teachers they can't learn as much from them. Parents and adults often fail in this regard. That's a major reason (that and money) why the top people who want to teach don't or often leave after only a few years. Teaching has the highest burn out rate in the country and it's largely due to lack of support.
3) Education doesn't only happen in the school. Parents need to become involved. They need to do homework with their kids. Read to them. Take them to museums. Need to wrestle with ideas and turn the TV and video games off. When I was a teacher (I taught spec ed for four years) it blew my mind how many parents were not a part of their children's lives. How many of them had signed off. School isn't a baby sitting service. Parents need to be involved. My favorite parents were the ones who were often the biggest pains in the neck.

[aREDSKIN]

Why have we gotten so behind?


1) IMO it's quite obvious the "professional" educators have fail miserably by just about any measure.
2) Cultural difference on the importance & value of a "good" education or just an "education".
3) Political correctness to a degree but not overwhelming
4) Influx of non-english speaking children
5) The myopic view of how education "needs" to be conducted by teachers unions.
6) Lack of parental involvement in childs' education performance/progress

[ixcuincle]

Pretty sure America ranks mediocre mostly in math and sciences because of test results. Very disappointing.

And we also used to be one of the best educated countries in the world, but things have changed. Students can't afford college anymore, the American college matriculation rate has tanked drastically compared to Canada and Sweden. Lol.

I would blame America's decreased math and science scores on a lack of interest in the topic, most math classes are excruciatingly uninteresting and old-fashioned. Just a guy talking in front of a board for an hour lol. Who wants to sit through that?

[Elessar78]

There's also a strong undercurrent of anti-intellectualism in this country. Like everything is about common sense—which is why people pursue higher education. There's a lot of base thinking and the strong belief that because one watches the news that one is informed. The problem with that, aside from the obvious ones is that you have the same information as everyone else—there is no information advantage.

One of the things I miss about the DC area is having a nice conversation with someone that I know is informed by much more than a daily rag and nightly news and their superficial "reporting"

I believe that the top, say, 25% of students really do care and make a good go of it, the middle 50% are on cruise control, and the bottom quarter is essentially left for dead. The main problem, for me, is that public schools cater to bottom 75% instead of putting resources into those that will excel. The problem with the "No Child Left Behind" mentality is that it could also be the "Hold Back the High Achievers" policy.

[Burgold]

Pretty sure America ranks mediocre mostly in math and sciences because of test results. Very disappointing.

And we also used to be one of the best educated countries in the world, but things have changed. Students can't afford college anymore, the American college matriculation rate has tanked drastically compared to Canada and Sweden. Lol.

I would blame America's decreased math and science scores on a lack of interest in the topic, most math classes are excruciatingly uninteresting and old-fashioned. Just a guy talking in front of a board for an hour lol. Who wants to sit through that?

It's not just math and science, but even in literacy America has fallen dramatically. We used to be amongst the tops in literacy rate and now we are middle of the pack. Pretty unbelievable considering that everyone has a free opportunity to learn to read and write, then again, listen to the majority of college educated pro-athletes and the literacy level they display is shocking.

[Thiebear]

This gets me everytime.

There are 2 people that take care of 50 servers in Vancouver canada.
There are 2 people that take care of 20 servers in Ft. Lauderdale.
And i help them all the time while i take care of 440 servers.

I often wonder what they do on Tuesday-Friday..

Do you believe its easier to take care of the
300k people in Iceland
Luxemburg 500k
2.2 million people in Latvia (I'd say Fairfax county has better educatin than Latvia).
vs. 300million people in the USA?

Though i'd say inner city (Ward8 in DC) etc are ignored, same as the super rural.
The Achieveable Dream example in Newport would help most inner city schools and bring up the curve quite a bit.

Pro Atheletes as an example? Really? Thats low hanging fruit as they make more than Iceland per person and are given a free pass through school.. its known.

[Burgold]

Pro Atheletes as an example? Really? Thats low hanging fruit as they make more than Iceland per person and are given a free pass through school.. its known.

I just picked on the athlete because they are an easy example that we all have experience with, but you can't tell me that you haven't heard CP speak or give an interview and found it unsettling and CP is actually a pretty smart guy... or could be.

[FanboyOf91]

When were we ever "first" in education? Rich families sent their children overseas for better educations as recently as the beginning of the century, if I'm not mistaken.
:yes:


"U.S. students, who once led the world, currently rank 21st in the world in science and 25th in math," Newsweek reported in September. I hear that a lot. Politicians and business leaders often bemoan the decline of American education compared to the rest of the world. We are doomed, they say, unless we [fill in here the latest plan to save the country.]

So I was surprised to find, in the latest report by the wonderfully contrarian Brookings Institution scholar Tom Loveless, that the notion of America on the downward track is a myth. The data show that we have been mediocre all along, as far back as 1964. If anything, we have lately been showing some signs of improvement.

Loveless, senior fellow at the Brown Center on Education Policy at Brookings, says in his annual report on American Education:

"The United States never led the world. It was never number one and has never been close to number one on international math tests. Or on science tests, for that matter. It is more accurate to say that the United States has always trailed the world on math tests."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/class-struggle/2011/02/myth_of_declining_us_schools.html

[No Excuses]

I'd never send my kids to public schooling in this country. I know from my own experience how disrespectful a lot of the kids are to teachers and as a result, how little most teachers actually care about teaching. I only had a handful of teachers in high school who thoroughly enjoyed teaching. The rest were either collecting a pay check or absolutely miserable.

Pre-teens and teenagers are coddled so much in this country. This country is becoming soft.

[Corcaigh]

Education in America depends largely on zip code. 95% of the issue is parenting and demographics.

There's little doubt that many of the top universities in the World are here and the majority of students attending are American.

So what it seems we have is much greater difference here between high performers and low performers compared to other developed nations.

[mardi gras skin]

Something interesting is happening my kid's school.

My daughter is in second grade and she's in the advanced class. She's about middle of the road for the class she's in but there are a group of students who are brainiacs and they're all immigrants. Everyone one of them. If there were no second generation Asians or Africans or Caribbean students in her class, my daughter would be the academic rock star. My daughter reads for 15 to 30 minutes a day but these kids read an hour to 2 hours a day. I want to see that my daughter is getting the concepts and we work with her on things she's lagging behind in. These kid's parents go nuts when their sons and daughters don't nail the ideas on the first assessment. I've seen some of the intense and dramatic conversations these parents have with the teacher. They are fiercely devoted to their child's education.

But I have noticed that, each year, there are fewer African Americans in her class. The school in general is mostly African American and the advanced class used to have a fair representation. But they keep getting bumped to the standard level class. In Kindergarten, they tested into the advanced track but they haven't kept up. Next year, it looks like the class will still be very ethnically diverse but most of the African American kids will be gone.

Now here's my daughter's take on the situation. School is becoming less and less fun because all her friends are getting moved to other classes. The kids in her class this year are more boring than the kids in her class last year. She doesn't say anything about skin color or ethnicity or anything like that, just that her class isn't as fun as it used to be. Its much harder for her to make friends.

And its true. When I go in to observe this year, the class is kind of socially dull. Most of the kids are almost lifeless. They animate to do what they're supposed to do and wait to be told what to do next. In the down time, most of them don't seem to know what to do with themselves.

Obviously, this is one experience in one class in one elementary school. But it seems pretty obvious to me that there are only so many hours in a day. If you spend 2 hours each evening reading a book, there's not nearly as much time left to run around the park and ride your bike and make forts in the woods behind our house with the other kids. You can't watch iCarly in each other's homes and talking about it together in class the next day and still have time to work your flash cards over and over again.

They can't do it all.

[Sticksboi05]

I'd never send my kids to public schooling in this country. I know from my own experience how disrespectful a lot of the kids are to teachers and as a result, how little most teachers actually care about teaching. I only had a handful of teachers in high school who thoroughly enjoyed teaching. The rest were either collecting a pay check or absolutely miserable.

Pre-teens and teenagers are coddled so much in this country. This country is becoming soft.

Seriously? I went to public school and had some of the best teachers you could ask for. Things aren't in black and white, that gets us nowhere.

As for "becoming" soft. That has already happened and quite frankly I wouldn't be surprised to see that kids can't bring pencils to school one day because they can be used as a weapon.

---------- Post added February-19th-2011 at 11:34 AM ----------


Education in America depends largely on zip code. 95% of the issue is parenting and demographics.

There's little doubt that many of the top universities in the World are here and the majority of students attending are American.

So what it seems we have is much greater difference here between high performers and low performers compared to other developed nations.

Bingo.

[Thiebear]

I send my children to the public school Bush Hill Elementary school. It is a fantastic school and my daughter is doing 8th grade algebra in the 6th grade along with advanced poetry etc.
I have no complaints other than its getting harder to help her with the homework.


---------- Post added February-19th-2011 at 11:46 AM ----------

We probably shouldn't use Iceland as an example.. not sure what they are teaching but it doesnt appear to be good.

Iceland is usually seen as one of the most isolated and ethnically homogeneous states in Europe; a place where national identity is jealously guarded and a rugged climate has forced people to pull together. The harshness of the landscape mean that solidarity and mutual aid are bred in the bone here: helping your neighbour is simply second nature. But that very ethos goes hand in hand with a rather ambivalent attitude to outsiders.

During World War II Iceland was notably reticent in accepting refugees from Nazism and even deported some Jewish families back to the mainland. More recently, the US Army, which maintains a large military bases on the island, was discreetly asked not to send any black soldiers lest they upset the locals.

[Bang]

You get out of education what you put into it.
Simple as that.
Since a lot of kids don't put much into it. They don't get much out of it.
Since their parents often don't insist and assist them to put into it, they don't get much out of it.


We've also progressivley lowered standards, concerned more with feel-good demographic gains than the actual education it is providing the students.

But again, if the student applies themselves and actively participates in their own education, they will get a lot out of it.

~Bang

[Thiebear]

Raise your hand if you believe we should teach the More than 1.2 million legal and illegal immigrants combined now settle in the United States each year up to every other countries standard? more people than three of the listed countries combined.
I think were kicking ass if you think about it.

[endzone_dave]

I would wager that the education that we offer our kids is competitive with other countries. If a kid works hard, takes AP courses, and goes to a decent college, they can compete in the global economy.

I think too many kids don't take advantage of what's being offered and squander the opportunity to be educated. It's up to parents to make sure they don't do this.

[Burgold]

You get out of education what you put into it.
Simple as that.~Bang

I think that's really true.

I was a B/C student through most of public school. Basically, I slept through the classes, did homework when I felt like it, and aced all the tests. In college, I was a B/A student because I began to care and thought that it mattered. I finished grad school with a 3.8.

Basically, as it got harder I did better. I don't think I'm alone in that either. Maybe it was responding to the challenge, but mostly I think it was about me deciding to care.

[mardi gras skin]

I was a B/C student through most of public school. Basically, I slept through the classes, did homework when I felt like it, and aced all the tests. In college, I was a B/A student because I began to care and thought that it mattered. I finished grad school with a 3.8.

Basically, as it got harder I did better. I don't think I'm alone in that either. Maybe it was responding to the challenge, but mostly I think it was about me deciding to care.

Yeah, I was almost identical. B's and C's in 9th and 10th grade, A's and B's in 11th and 12th grade. A's and B's in college, A's in my masters.

I didn't think of it as getting better as it got harder but as it became more interesting. The scope of the information continually narrowed into areas that I cared about. The more control I had over my schedule, the better I did.

[No Excuses]

Seriously? I went to public school and had some of the best teachers you could ask for. Things aren't in black and white, that gets us nowhere.

As for "becoming" soft. That has already happened and quite frankly I wouldn't be surprised to see that kids can't bring pencils to school one day because they can be used as a weapon.[COLOR="Gold"]


Different schools, different teachers I guess. I went to a school that was considered one of the "better" ones in Fairfax County. It was a total mixed bag for me. Science teachers were awful, English teachers were awful, Math teachers were good, History teachers were good. Maybe this is a bit revisionist though, because once I started college, I realized how much I disliked the high school system and how awful it was being stuck in one building from 7 in the morning till 4 in the afternoon.

I agree on the soft part with you. I wish the kids who grow up here would get to see how easy they have in this country in comparison to the rest of the world.

[twa]

You get out of education what you put into it.

~Bang

Agreed

Vishal, mine went to public schools,and while there are some teachers that are basically worthless,there are many more putting forth a effort.
I believe the kids tutoring other students makes them better students

[ConnSKINS26]

The other big issue....we teach towards testing in this country. We don't give a **** whether we learn or not, or whether we're helping others learn....we care that they pass the test that SAYS they "learned" it. And then the information is gone the next day, or within a week of discussing it.

[ixcuincle]

The other big issue....we teach towards testing in this country. We don't give a **** whether we learn or not, or whether we're helping others learn....we care that they pass the test that SAYS they "learned" it. And then the information is gone the next day, or within a week of discussing it.

This

STandardized testing ruined America's education system

[SkinsHokieFan]

I am not really concerned about standardized tests

What I do know is, my cousin, who graduated high school 10 years after me, is far ahead of anything I could do 10 years ago and faced far stiffer competition then I did.

I know I wouldn't be able to get into Virginia Tech with a 3.5 1300 now. And its like that across the board

My opinion? Kids are smarter, more motivated and more competitive these days. And the best is yet to come

[skinfan2k]

I was pretty fortunate to go to to the best public schools in PG county and it helped me develop life skills along with the education i need to get into college and beyond. I think that Teach for America needs to have a bigger hand in the education system in america. My cousin has risen to become a principal at the age of 26 and she was recognized as one of the best teachers in the program when she took the lowest poverty students in houston and had that class on par with the brightest folks in the state. It can happen. After teach for america recognized that, she quickly became a teacher to the other teacher there and now a principal in 4 out of college.

[jnhay]

The other big issue....we teach towards testing in this country. We don't give a **** whether we learn or not, or whether we're helping others learn....we care that they pass the test that SAYS they "learned" it. And then the information is gone the next day, or within a week of discussing it.
I've gotten solid A's in some of the hardest, most demanding classes on my schedule but in the end looked back and knew I hadn't really learned much. Maybe the Asian culture lends itself to just giving out a textbook and saying "learn this", but I know American teachers rely too much on this kind of teaching and it just doesn't work. Many teachers are too stubborn and lazy to realize when they need to adjust their note-taking/boring slides/read 3 chapters before class approach.

[ixcuincle]

I am not really concerned about standardized tests

What I do know is, my cousin, who graduated high school 10 years after me, is far ahead of anything I could do 10 years ago and faced far stiffer competition then I did.

I know I wouldn't be able to get into Virginia Tech with a 3.5 1300 now. And its like that across the board

My opinion? Kids are smarter, more motivated and more competitive these days. And the best is yet to come

I've always thought the SAT was a waste of time, and that GPA and extracurriculars should suffice. If you have to take a test, you need the SAT II one or the AP one, don't have any concerns about those.

[Burgold]

I've always thought the SAT was a waste of time, and that GPA and extracurriculars should suffice. If you have to take a test, you need the SAT II one or the AP one, don't have any concerns about those.

The problem is the incredible variability between classrooms and schools. How does your A compare with mine? So, a way to equalize is useful. The SAT is not a great test, but it is the best one we've designed so far.

[No Excuses]

Vishal, mine went to public schools,and while there are some teachers that are basically worthless,there are many more putting forth a effort.
I believe the kids tutoring other students makes them better students

I admit, that perhaps my feelings about high school are a bit jaded by my own experience. I never tried or gave any effort for all four years. My freshmen year of college, I tried harder than I ever had because I knew my parents were paying for my tuition and boarding. I had a good GPA and good SAT score but nothing to write home about. I didn't qualify for any scholarships and I only got a small amount of need based financial aid because of my parents combined income. I've had to work my ass off to get to the point I'm at right now where I'm not dependent on my parents. I was practically free loading off of tax payer money (and my parents) in high school and I never appreciated the system because nothing was on the line (besides my own future, but I never understood that until after graduation).

This is not really the most sound logic, but maybe if my kids knew that daddy was paying for school tuition, they'd want to try a little bit harder. I know that I would have.

[Teller]

I think the structure at home has a lot to do with it too. When people my age (37) and older were in school, for the most part, we had traditional nuclear families. The divorce rate is higher now (too lazy to look up the numbers), and we have far more kids being raised by single parents who have all the demands of a two-parent household on their shoulders. And PLEASE don't misunderstand me. There are plenty of single parents who do a PHENOMAL job of raising their kids on their own. And each of them has my full respect and admiration. I'm not knocking one-parent families at all.

But I think the education problems we have in this country do start at home. Whether it's too much time on game consoles, apathetic parents, whatever it is. You can't expect your kid's teacher to fix in seven hours what you're ****ing up the other 17.

[Vilandil Tasardur]

It all starts at home. Fewer and fewer students have a parent at home full time to make sure homework gets done. Thirty years ago, if you had to read a chapter for the next morning's science class, someone at home made sure you read it before the next day. Nowadays enough kids go home to single parents or to homes where both parents are working. These kids get in the house, pop in call of duty, and good effin luck. Between no one around at home to force them to do the homework and study, and the fact that kids in this age aren't used to having something challenging unsolved in an hour, they quickly give up. If a high schooler has to read Macbeth in english class and it takes him an hour and a half to get through that night's thirty pages, how long is it going to take before he gives up to play call of duty? Students today don't like to take that long doing things. And who is going to check it? "Johnny, did you read for class tomorrow?" "Yeah, that dude died and his ghost was all getting his haunt on." Ten minutes on sparknotes and the kid knows enough to make people think they read.

I'm not that removed from high school; I remember having a horrible notion of only needing to do the bare minimum. I would always do all of my homework, but I never studied for a test in my high school life. I didn't know how, and didn't know why I should. The role of my teachers was to prepare me for the exam and my homework should have been enough practice. Well, of course it doesn't work that way. But the thought of doing extra studying after all that homework was just bogus to me.

[youngestson]

The problem is the incredible variability between classrooms and schools. How does your A compare with mine? So, a way to equalize is useful. The SAT is not a great test, but it is the best one we've designed so far.

I agree the SAT is a good test, but it's a predictor test. All it measures is a student's potential to do well (or not) in college. As an indication of what was learned, it falls a little flat.

[Sticksboi05]

Standardized testing is comically wasteful. Because 50 questions, multiple choice might I add, determines if you should move to the next level. Hilarious.

And H_H, it does indeed all start from home which is why kids whose parents are highly educated usually get good grades also. You don't even have to like learning but accept that you need an education to make it far in life which is enough motivation.

[youngestson]

Standardized testing is comically wasteful. Because 50 questions, multiple choice might I add, determines if you should move to the next level. Hilarious.

And H_H, it does indeed all start from home which is why kids whose parents are highly educated usually get good grades also. You don't even have to like learning but accept that you need an education to make it far in life which is enough motivation.

It also determines how effective the school, state, teachers, and administration are according to some people.

[Chiefinonhaze]

These are some interesting ideas. IMO, education is lacking in the U.S. because of the teaching. Teachers are not able to take command of their students, leading the students to rebel and avoid doing schoolwork.

[jnhay]

These are some interesting ideas. IMO, education is lacking in the U.S. because of the teaching. Teachers are not able to take command of their students, leading the students to rebel and avoid doing schoolwork.
Some teachers either have no ability to grasp if their students are learning, or just don't care. I had a teacher last semester who would drone on and on, and I swear he wasn't saying a damn thing that was important to the subject. Basically, he spoke as if everyone was an expert already and glossed over the meaningful details. After class, I would ask people what the hell he talked about, and no one could give me an answer.