ESPN: Kiper's NFC East summer audits

[Hitman21ST]

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/columns/story?columnist=kiper_jr_mel&id=6715550


Washington Redskins

Help added: This was like a different team this draft. What happened? The Redskins entered the draft without a third- or fourth-round pick and had just eight overall. Same ol' story. But when it was all said and done, they made 12 selections -- four in the first four rounds. After working out a trade with Jacksonville, in which they swapped first-rounders, and dropping six spots, the redskins were thrilled to see Purdue LB Ryan Kerrigan still available. After making a name for himself at defensive end with the Boilermakers, he'll operate at OLB in the Redskins' 3-4 base. Kerrigan has natural big-play ability that can't be taught.

I'm not as high on DE Jarvis Jenkins as the Skins are, but the second-round pick out of Clemson could be productive. Miami wideout Leonard Hankerson was a very nice pick in the third round and gives them the type of physical presence at the position that was lacking last season. A fourth-round pick, Nebraska RB Roy Helu is made to order for their offense. He has excellent speed and is the type of one-cut runner that excels in Mike Shanahan's offense. They obviously scouted Nebraska very thoroughly as their next two picks were teammates of Helu.

I had a free-agent grade on safety DeJon Gomes; they saw fit to take him in the fifth round. We'll see. Wideout Niles Paul struggled with some drops and wasn't much of a factor in the offense last season due in large part to the quarterback situation, so taking a chance on him in the fifth round is well worth it. The sixth-round pick, Penn State RB Evan Royster, has limitations but can catch the ball. I really liked their other selection in the sixth round of SMU wideout Aldrick Robinson. He took over for Emmanuel Sanders as the Mustangs' feature receiver in 2010 and had a very good year.

Questions that remain: As I wrote in my 2011 NFL draft grades, "We know the Redskins need help at quarterback, but I'll give them credit: They realized there wasn't a quarterback in this draft who can help them in 2011, and they moved out of the spot that became the Blaine Gabbert pick." I'll stand by that now, meaning that's a question that remains. And for whoever is taking the snaps, the offensive line will need to continue to progress, and Hankerson will need to quickly add an element in the passing game. Obviously, the biggest questions all start on the offensive side of the ball, where you have to hope Shanahan can get the running game he made famous untracked with some new talent.

Next year's help now: Andrew Luck, QB, Stanford
This isn't a prediction that the Skins will be in place to land Luck, it means he'd be the best QB on their roster now.


It's nothing we haven't heard or seen before (or even said on here ourselves), but it's nice to see a positive outlook on the Skins coming from ESPN. Even when our pick didn't exactly mesh with Kiper's grades or outlook, he gives it a positive spin.

[ScottAH87]

Good read. Can you post the other teams evaluations? Thanks

[Hitman21ST]

Dallas Cowboys

Help added: Once it became known the Cowboys wouldn't be using their first-round pick on a cornerback, the focus shifted to both sides of the line. They had a major need at defensive end with three unsigned players there. They also had a major need at right tackle, where Marc Colombo has seen his better days and is expected to be released. They opted to address the latter, selecting USC offensive tackle Tyron Smith. While he made a name for himself at right tackle with the Trojans, he has the athletic ability necessary to eventually make the switch to the left side.

Both of their starting inside linebackers -- Bradie James and Keith Brooking -- will be free agents next year, and Sean Lee is the only backup of consequence. They opted to address the situation in the second round, taking Bruce Carter, who lacks big-play ability, but when healthy is someone who will make a very favorable impression on you. The concern there is he's coming off a torn ACL. But he can be a nice fit for the Cowboys as a 3-4 inside guy. With Marion Barber expected to be let go, Dallas got a replacement in the third round in DeMarco Murray. While no one questioned Murray's ability entering his senior year, there were concerns surrounding his durability.

Elsewhere, I'm not sold on fourth-round pick David Arkin, but he could start at guard soon. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see late pick Josh Thomas stick as a fourth cornerback, and Shaun Chapas could be a solution at fullback, a decent value late.

Questions that remain: When you take a tackle at No. 9, you have to believe he'll end up on the left side. Dallas clearly does with Smith, and he has the skill set to land there, but there's no certainty that he's an immediate help. He'll need some time to develop further. As far as picks that weren't made, the big question is whether the Cowboys can get help on the defensive line, particularly at defensive end. This was the league's 23rd-ranked defense, and I think it started up front.

I didn't mind the pick of Smith at No. 9, particularly if the Boys didn't have a player such as Prince Amukamara rated high on their board, but safety and corner are still average-to-worse positions for Dallas. They should be looking for help.

Next year's help now: Mark Barron, S, Alabama
The Cowboys are soft in the back of the secondary, and Barron is well-schooled and physical. He can help immediately.


New York Giants

Help added: Weeks before the draft, Amukamara was almost a certain top-10 pick. On draft day, he fell to the Giants at pick No. 19. In today's age of pro football, you can never have enough quality cornerbacks. When you combine his physical ability and cover skills, it should equate to a very good starter in the league.

With the Giants facing the possibility Barry Cofield could depart in free agency, they were in the market for some depth at DT. Had North Carolina's Marvin Austin been on the field as a senior and played up to his potential, he would have been a first-round pick. The Giants were able to get him in the late-second round. He needs to make more plays, but there is no questioning his talent. If Austin doesn't become a starter, he should be able to at least make the grade as a top-flight backup.

New York's third-round pick, Troy wideout Jerrel Jernigan, possesses blazing speed and puts it to very good use as a receiver, a returner and on reverses. He's a guy that defenses have to find when he steps on the field. Fourth-rounder James Brewer (OT) looks the part but needs better results; a definite coach-him-up shot. While Michigan State LB Greg Jones wasn't the prospect his stats in college would lead you to believe, in the sixth round he had definite value. I would not be the least bit surprised to see him become a solid backup. Iowa S Tyler Sash wasn't the ball hawk as a junior that we witnessed the previous two years, but he still graded out as a good starter. When projecting him to the NFL, you're looking at a decent backup type.

Questions that remain: The two spots that stick out for me are at outside linebacker and on the offensive line. I really expected to see the Giants go for a linebacker earlier, and I think they may have if they hadn't been blown away by the value they got in Amukamara and Austin. But the question remains: How long will this aging offensive line hold together? We saw it struggle last year, so expect the G-men to do some scouring for starting help in free agency, or at least add some depth. Same situation at linebacker, where the team was frankly terrible in 2010.

Next year's help now: Luke Kuechly, LB, Boston College
He could add size to his frame, but Kuechly seems to make every tackle and is the kind of active, tackling-machine presence this team needs at linebacker.


Philadelphia Eagles

Help added: It wasn't a surprise to see the Eagles go for an offensive lineman in the first round. The surprise came when they bypassed Wisconsin's Gabe Carimi in favor of Baylor's Danny Watkins. Watkins' stock was on the steady rise -- the oldest player in the draft, he possesses the technique, physical tools and aggressiveness to develop into a very good pro.

Philly then targeted a suspect secondary. With Nate Allen returning from a knee injury and Quintin Mikell not expected to be re-signed, the safety position was a definite need area. Temple's Jaiquawn Jarrett is someone who the Eagles were obviously very familiar with. He possesses good instincts for the position and is solid in run support. With CB Dimitri Patterson unsigned and suffering through his fair share of struggles last season, the Eagles were in need of a reinforcement. Utah State's Curtis Marsh has an impressive combination of size and speed with cover skills. But he's a work in progress. I didn't have a third-round grade on him. Casey Matthews (fourth round) definitely has great bloodlines. While not the athlete that his older brother, Clay, is, he's always around the action and made a number of big plays for Oregon during his college career. David Akers can't feel good about his job security after watching the Eagles use a fourth-round pick on Nebraska's Alex Henery. Along with being very accurate, Henery possesses a very strong leg.

Fifth-round pick, Pittsburgh RB Dion Lewis, wasn't as impressive as a sophomore as he was the previous year, but I remain high on him. He lacks size, but runs effectively between the tackles and is very adept at catching it coming out of the backfield. With Jerome Harrison currently unsigned, he may be given every chance to show he can be a solid backup. The Eagles addressed the offensive line with their next two selections.

Questions that remain: I actually think the Eagles did a really good job in terms of targeting needs, the question for me is the upside of the players selected. Are the guys they landed for the secondary going to help immediately? Maybe. This team may need to look for some free-agent help there and at defensive tackle to shore up the defense. Remember, the big question involves what they can get for Kevin Kolb. Can they add some help, or will it only be picks?

Next year's help now: Tydreke Powell, DT, North Carolina
The defensive line is one area this draft didn't target, but it could use some help next year, and Powell should be a riser among seniors.

It actually seems to me that Kiper praises the Skins more than the Giants, Eagles, or Cowboys, at least on the "questions that remain" segment

[Dukes and Skins]

I'd be bummed like no other if the Giants got Kuechly. The guy is a stud LB and will be a force in the NFL

[Hitman21ST]

I'd be bummed like no other if the Giants got Kuechly. The guy is a stud LB and will be a force in the NFL

First round grade?

If he's there in the second, do you take him to be an ILB?

[MassSkinsFan]

It actually seems to me that Kiper praises the Skins more than the Giants, Eagles, or Cowboys, at least on the "questions that remain" segment

It looks that way to me too. Since I don't get Insider I really appreciate you posting all these. Thanks!!!

[Hitman21ST]

It looks that way to me too. Since I don't get Insider I really appreciate you posting all these. Thanks!!!

No problem. I got Insider when my wife subscribed me to ESPN the Mag, so I might as well use it, right?

[DC9]

the best inside linebacker in the draft next season will be Notre Dame's Manti Ta'o. Mail it in. He may not be there in the 2nd round, unfortunately.

[SkinsHokieFan]

I think everyone except Redskins fans see who is needed on this team to make any progress in the future.

Work to get lucky in 2012 Mike.

[Hitman21ST]

I think everyone except Redskins fans see who is needed on this team to make any progress in the future.

Work to get lucky in 2012 Mike.

You suggesting tanking? :no:

[Bang]

Thanks Hitman, made a good lunchtime read on all the NFCE teams.

I love all the positivity around Kerrigan and especially Hankerson, who I have a feeling may be a bona-fide steal.
A felony. Grand Theft Receiver.

~Bang

[Hitman21ST]

Thanks Hitman, made a good lunchtime read on all the NFCE teams.

I love all the positivity around Kerrigan and especially Hankerson, who I have a feeling may be a bona-fide steal.
A felony. Grand Theft Receiver.

~Bang

No problem Bang. I'm trying to become a productive member of ES :silly:

I agree on all accounts about Kerrigan and Hankerson. I would label Hankerson the steal of the draft, but I think we got a number, including Helu, Gomes, and Nield. All in all, I have a feeling this will rank as one of the best drafts the Skins have ever had.

[SkinsHokieFan]

You suggesting tanking? :no:

Big difference between tanking, and fielding a roster of young guys, with very few free agent additions, who most likely have the deck stacked against them.

We'll know the plan soon enough when FA begins and who our QB is. If its John Beck, well, I am going to pre order my Andrew Luck jersey this fall :ols:

[Painkiller]

Big difference between tanking, and fielding a roster of young guys, with very few free agent additions, who most likely have the deck stacked against them.

We'll know the plan soon enough when FA begins and who our QB is. If its John Beck, well, I am going to pre order my Andrew Luck jersey this fall :ols:

I really think this is preposterous. Having reasonable/realistic expectations is one thing, but If anybody thinks the leadership of this team is going to go into this season with the full intent of "tanking" the year on purpose to get a QB who has never played an NFL snap you are out of your mind.

Frankly, I don't think this team could **** up that bad in 2011 to get the first pick next year even if they do field a team of newbies and old veterans. I don't expect them to be in the top 5 in the 2012 draft. Now trading up is one thing, but no way this team is picking number 1 without trading up. They are not the worst team in the league, and I expect no worse than last year which put them at 10. I have a feeling this team will surprise some people this season. I don't expect playoffs, but I think the Redskins will exceed expecations. Maybe a 7 or 8 win season with Rex Grossman as the starting QB.

Edit: And I'm not so much speaking to you, as I am to the members who really think tanking the season to get Luck is a good idea. You don't tank anything on purpose.

Have a game plan, don't mortgage the future, but never waste right now on the past or the future. I believe this team can be competitive right now, and still build for tomorrow.

[SkinsHokieFan]

I really think this is preposterous. Having reasonable/realistic expectations is one thing, but If anybody thinks the leadership of this team is going to go into this season with the full intent of "tanking" the year on purpose to get a QB who has never played an NFL snap you are out of your mind.

Frankly, I don't think this team could **** up that bad in 2011 to get the first pick next year even if they do field a team of newbies and old veterans. I don't expect them to be in the top 5 in the 2012 draft. Now trading up is one thing, but no way this team is picking number 1 without trading up. They are not the worst team in the league, and I expect no worse than last year which put them at 10. I have a feeling this team will surprise some people this season. I don't expect playoffs, but I think the Redskins will exceed expecations. Maybe a 7 or 8 win season with Rex Grossman as the starting QB.

Honestly, a 7 or 8 win season does nothing for us, except guarantee more 7 or 8 win seasons.

This team badly needs high end talent, in particular at the QB spot.

Nobody is going to "tank" a game or a season. They will go out there trying to win every single time.

But if the FO does in FA like it did last year, I wouldn't have very high expectations with the QB and o-line situation. And I am struggling to find 5 teams with less talent then we have.

The worst thing possible is a team full of 27-30 year old players that wins 7 or 8 games. That would be a disaster to me

[Painkiller]

Honestly, a 7 or 8 win season does nothing for us, except guarantee more 7 or 8 win seasons.

See, I don't think so. Even if we are playing new guys I have enough faith in this coaching staff that they can pull out 7 or 8 wins. If they don't fine, but don't think that limited success is out of the realm of possibility in 2011 even if we play 1/2 a team of rookies or other young players.


This team badly needs high end talent, in particular at the QB spot.

Call me crazy, but I really think that either Beck or Grossman could be the long-term answer.



But if the FO does in FA like it did last year, I wouldn't have very high expectations with the QB and o-line situation. And I am struggling to find 5 teams with less talent then we have.

The worst thing possible is a team full of 27-30 year old players that wins 7 or 8 games. That would be a disaster to me.

My thoughts on this really boil down to my strong belief that excellent leadership can overcome a lot of "talent" deficiencies. A great example of this, was my recent thread abouty the 1987 replacement team beating the Cowboys on Monday night. I believe in this coaching staff. I think they have what it takes to get the most out of their players. I don't expect this team to go after a bunch of old veteran players in free-agency. I really think those days are over in Washington.

I expect a very disciplined hard-working Redskins team this year under Coach Shanahan. A team that gives 100% at all times. A team like that is very very dangerous, even when playing teams with "superior" talent. Another advantage that they have going for them, is nobody expects this team to do squat this year. Expectations are very low. Which means very little pressure.

[mi6]

Thanks for the post. An interesting read. Now, let's hope this draft class doesn't disappoint.

I am hoping that the young gun WRs really live up to their hype/potential. We all know all to well how badly we have dreamt of replacing Monk, Clark, and Sanders ... for a long time!

[scruffylookin]

Helu is the guy I am most excited to see. A young CP is an exciting possibility. As for next year, clearly QB has to be addressed. I want Luck just like everyone but I'm also going to educate myself on the other top QBs. Reading the college football preview magazines it certainly sounds like there will be loads of first round talent next year beyond Luck and all seem better prospects than anyone from this past draft.

[Hitman21ST]

Helu is the guy I am most excited to see. A young CP is an exciting possibility. As for next year, clearly QB has to be addressed. I want Luck just like everyone but I'm also going to educate myself on the other top QBs. Reading the college football preview magazines it certainly sounds like there will be loads of first round talent next year beyond Luck and all seem better prospects than anyone from this past draft.

I'm quite high on Jones myself. Barkley not so much, only because he's a USC QB and USC doesn't have the best track record when it comes to producing pro QBs. I wouldn't mind if we took him, but he's third on my list among the "big three" - Luck, Jones, Barkley

[Dukes and Skins]

If you asked me my top 5 QB's in 2012 right now it would be

1. Luck
2A- Barkley
2B- Jones
3- Lindley
4- RGIII
5- Kirk Cousins(starting to warm up to him more and more) but this is a loaded QB class no doubt

[Dirt]

Call me crazy, but I really think that either Beck or Grossman could be the long-term answer.

I agree, it really isn't that crazy at all. Grossman is judged because he throws too many picks I guess. Although he's been to a Super Bowl. He was timely, or untimely (really, inconsistent as hell) with his game's o' picks, and his good games. Enough to get to a Super Bowl anyway. We all get wiser as we get older, so I have every reason to think he'd be better now. He looked fine late last year, and he got to a Super Bowl back when he was 'young and crappy'.

And John Beck is judged because, well, he hasn't played many games. It's assumed, of course, that the reason teams don't start him is because he sucks. But again, it's not crazy for a decent, playoff running QB to show up in some way like Beck did. Maybe he's coached up a better way than he ever has. Really, the thing I like about Beck and Rex is their 'yes sir' attitude. They're gonna do the damn play like Kyle Shannahan was playing Madden. Both of them seem pretty enthusiastic and eager. It's awesome to have 2 mediocre guys battling it out for the starting position, haha. I mean really, they're not some hotshots that can act like they don't care, and few if any teams are looking at them, so I'm sure you'll get the 110% best out of both of them, mentally and everything.

In fact it will be pretty sad when someone like Vince Young or another definite starter is brought on. All that hard work for nothin' huh Rex/Beck. Whatever, I just like those guys. Wouldn't mind either of them starting. Lot's more rebuilding to do anyway.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Dallas Cowboys

Questions that remain: When you take a tackle at No. 9, you have to believe he'll end up on the left side.

Or his right. Or his ass. Or his back. Or his (you get the picture.).

Here's to the Cowboys #9 eating turf all year. :cool:.

Hail.

[Wyvern]

I liked the analysis that Kiper made of the Skins' draft. I think if the Skins had drafted Stefen Wisniewski (Center, Penn State) instead of Jarvis Jenkins -- people would really be talking up the Skins draft. Wisniewski would have been a very good center for Shanahan's system and help solidify that interior line. Wisniewski seemed to be a regular contributing factor to many of Royster's highlight runs through the interior of the line. I also agree that Gomes was a head-scratcher and Paul was another gamble -- maybe these guys are gems in the rough, but I've never been a big fan of gambling that Nebraska players make it big in the NFL.

But back to Jenkins, I share Kiper's current doubts, but also feel that Jarvis might eventually be productive. What concerned me about Jenkins at the beginning was his low number of reps at the combine - really low for his position. There was also a lot of chatter (pre-draft and post-draft) about Jenkins lack of conditioning.. And now we're being told that Clemson's strength-training program wasn't very good... but with the right pro-level training we're going to see the "real" Jenkins who'll surprise everyone with his developed potential. Bottom line is that it seems the Skins gambled a bt with their early second-round pick, when they could have obtained someone who was more of a sure thing, like Wisniewski.

Well, that's my two-cents as a fan -- I understand that Allen and Shanahan are more experienced and put in a lot more time in analyzing these players, but I've also seen a definite willingness to gamble on their part. .I wonder how much of picking Jenkins, Gomes and Paul was due to the gambling side.

[Chump Bailey]

I think if the Skins had drafted Stefen Wisniewski (Center, Penn State) instead of Jarvis Jenkins -- people would really be talking up the Skins draft.Wisniewski would have been a very good center for Shanahan's system and help solidify that interior line. Bottom line is that it seems the Skins gambled a bt with their early second-round pick, when they could have obtained someone who was more of a sure thing, like Wisniewski.

Completely agree with you

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

If you asked me my top 5 QB's in 2012 right now it would be

1. Luck
2A- Barkley
2B- Jones
3- Lindley
4- RGIII
5- Kirk Cousins(starting to warm up to him more and more) but this is a loaded QB class no doubt

Hey, Dukes man. How about a friendly signature bet before the season's even started the Landry Jones ends the year as the most coveted guy in the Nation and goes at 1? (Which will piss me off as I believe he's the perfect fit for what Coach Mike does.).

I'll lay it on the line right here, right now. Jones, not Luck, will be the first QB taken.

Hail.

[Gibbstastic]

i believe it was Jake Locker who went into his senior year as the most likely #1 pick of the draft. Luck is a real good QB, but people seem to forget his coach is gone and after a few losses with other QBs stepping up, he could easily fall in the draft.

not to mention, it's a little crazy in general to be trying to predict a draft that's a season away.

[Hitman21ST]

Dallas Cowboys

Questions that remain: When you take a tackle at No. 9, you have to believe he'll end up on the left side.

Or his right. Or his ass. Or his back. Or his (you get the picture.).

Here's to the Cowboys #9 eating turf all year. :cool:.

Hail.

98 through pick number 9 to #9.

I like it. :)

[Dukes and Skins]

Hey, Dukes man. How about a friendly signature bet before the season's even started the Landry Jones ends the year as the most coveted guy in the Nation and goes at 1? (Which will piss me off as I believe he's the perfect fit for what Coach Mike does.).

I'll lay it on the line right here, right now. Jones, not Luck, will be the first QB taken.

Hail.

I'm down I still think Luck goes #1 no matter what but I'll take it

[kyousukeneko]

i mean next years really strong at ILB. i mean Vontaze burfict, luke kechley, Manti To'e

[Hitman21ST]

i mean next years really strong at ILB. i mean Vontaze burfict, luke kechley, Manti To'e

Next year, I think we target QB in the first, CB in the second, and interior O line in the later rounds

[MartinC]

If you asked me my top 5 QB's in 2012 right now it would be

1. Luck
2A- Barkley
2B- Jones
3- Lindley
4- RGIII
5- Kirk Cousins(starting to warm up to him more and more) but this is a loaded QB class no doubt

Assuming we don't end up with the worst record in football we are not getting Luck - and I just don't see us having the worst record in football!

I have watched some recordings and YouTube highlights of Barkely and Jones over the last few weeks and I am very impressed with Jones. He looks like a guy with great physical skills, great size and a good head on his shoulders as well. I was not as impressed by Barkley from a physical point of view. It's going to be an interesting year watching the progress and performance of the top QB prospects because I think it's almost nailed on we will be taking one high next year.

[alwaysaskin]

If you asked me my top 5 QB's in 2012 right now it would be

1. Luck
2A- Barkley
2B- Jones
3- Lindley
4- RGIII
5- Kirk Cousins(starting to warm up to him more and more) but this is a loaded QB class no doubt

After that write up Steve did on RGIII I've become more intrigued about what he can do for our Offense, while I'd like to see Luck or Jones in a "Skins uniform, I don't want to tank the season in order to see it, I'll be trying to watch more of Griffin this season

[Dukes and Skins]

After that write up Steve did on RGIII I've become more intrigued about what he can do for our Offense, while I'd like to see Luck or Jones in a "Skins uniform, I don't want to tank the season in order to see it, I'll be trying to watch more of Griffin this season

That was me who wrote it actually....

[alwaysaskin]

That was me who wrote it actually....

Great write up, I watched RGIII in few games last season

[aussieskin]

is it just me or are the media taking us seriously now since whats his name got the sack, oh year vinny.....

[Dukes and Skins]

Great write up, I watched RGIII in few games last season

I appreciate it man, RGIII is easily one of my favorite prospects. He's one of the most gifted QB's I've watched in my time closely. He's going to do big things in the NFL I think

[terryb101]

You suggesting tanking? :no:
dont think we have to "tank" anything. the natural course of having to play against other nfl teams will take care of that

[alwaysaskin]

I appreciate it man, RGIII is easily one of my favorite prospects. He's one of the most gifted QB's I've watched in my time closely. He's going to do big things in the NFL I think

I'm tending to agree with you, he seems to be that mobile QB, who is not always looking to tuck and run, just curious, if we finished 8-8 do you think we'd be able to grab RGIII?

[OuterBanksTarHeel]

When fans use "tanking," I don't think they're using the term literally, or suggesting that the coaches and players should go out of their way to lose games. They're simply suggesting that a gutted roster with mostly young players will probably take its lumps for a year or two; ironically, though, such teams are usually some of the hardest-playing squads in the league, but that doesn't stop such teams from being terrible for a little while.

But it doesn't matter, because when/if FA opens, the Skins will go on a spending spree. I don't get the optimism that they won't, or this idea that they've suddenly turned into the Lions or Bucs or Chiefs just because they drafted a bunch of players during a lockout. I hope I'm wrong though.

[Dukes and Skins]

I'm tending to agree with you, he seems to be that mobile QB, who is not always looking to tuck and run, just curious, if we finished 8-8 do you think we'd be able to grab RGIII?

8-8 puts us in the middle of the 1st round so yes we could be in that position to get him. I only see Luck Jones and Barkley as the top 10 guys and in that 2nd tier is a guy like RGIII, Kirk Cousins which would be the middle of the 1st round

[Hitman21ST]

8-8 puts us in the middle of the 1st round so yes we could be in that position to get him. I only see Luck Jones and Barkley as the top 10 guys and in that 2nd tier is a guy like RGIII, Kirk Cousins which would be the middle of the 1st round

If we go 8-8 do you think we trade up? What would the mid-range record have to be for us to not trade up?

[Dukes and Skins]

If we go 8-8 do you think we trade up? What would the mid-range record have to be for us to not trade up?

Who knows at this point me personally if I'm sitting at say 17 and Landry Jones is there on board at 12 I'm looking to maybe make a move up, but also if I feel there isn't a huge drop off between him and RGIII(which isn't out of the realm of possibility) then I just look at stand pat and take my guy, maybe even move up a little in case I'm worried RG wont be there

[Hitman21ST]

Who knows at this point me personally if I'm sitting at say 17 and Landry Jones is there on board at 12 I'm looking to maybe make a move up, but also if I feel there isn't a huge drop off between him and RGIII(which isn't out of the realm of possibility) then I just look at stand pat and take my guy, maybe even move up a little in case I'm worried RG wont be there

Fair enough. If we end up with a top 10 pick again, do we go with one of the big three or trade back looking at RGIII?

[Dukes and Skins]

Fair enough. If we end up with a top 10 pick again, do we go with one of the big three or trade back looking at RGIII?

I'm staying in the top 10 and probably taking Landry Jones if there.

[Hitman21ST]

I'm staying in the top 10 and probably taking Landry Jones if there.

Good man

[boobiemiles]

If we are in the running for Andrew Luck, I hope the lock out continues.

[ArmchairRedskin]

I'd like to put my vote in the NO column right now for RGIII. Having watched him in full games a few times last year, seeing his build, and knowing his injury history has me convinced that he is not going to make a worthwhile transition to the NFL. Anybody see his Bowl game performance? Yuck.

Luck or Landry as of right now for me.

[Dukes and Skins]

I'd like to put my vote in the NO column right now for RGIII. Having watched him in full games a few times last year, seeing his build, and knowing his injury history has me convinced that he is not going to make a worthwhile transition to the NFL. Anybody see his Bowl game performance? Yuck.

Luck or Landry as of right now for me.

his injury history? you mean the knee injury that he's 100% recovered from? I think he very well will be a franchise QB in the NFL, he's a rare breed of QB

[ACW]

Who's RGIII? :dunce:

[Dukes and Skins]

Who's RGIII? :dunce:

Robert Griffin III QB out of Baylor. Did a write up on him on the draft blog

[SlinginSammy HOF '63]

Here's a question, Does anyone think we stocked up on the draft this year in order to throw the whole draft as a trade at a team to get Luck next year?

[SkinsHokieFan]

Here's a question, Does anyone think we stocked up on the draft this year in order to throw the whole draft as a trade at a team to get Luck next year?

Its a plausablie theory that has been written about elsewhere (http://www.hogshaven.com/2011/5/5/2153811/washington-redskins-announce-andrew-luck-in-2012-plan)

My thought is along the lines of HH, that if Beck is starting behind this o-line, we aren't doing anything in 2011. Which is just fine by me, so long as the young players get experience and get better and we start to take a very long term view of this thing.

Of course, this could all be blown up if we go into free agency and sign everyone

[Hitman21ST]

Here's a question, Does anyone think we stocked up on the draft this year in order to throw the whole draft as a trade at a team to get Luck next year?

Not sure if you meant the actual entire draft by whole draft, but I could see us packaging our first, second, and some pick next year to move up

[SlinginSammy HOF '63]

Not sure if you meant the actual entire draft by whole draft, but I could see us packaging our first, second, and some pick next year to move up

Yep. This here is what I meant. Load up on draft picks this year and expecting to trade away their first day picks for better positioning.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Its a plausablie theory that has been written about elsewhere (http://www.hogshaven.com/2011/5/5/2153811/washington-redskins-announce-andrew-luck-in-2012-plan)

My thought is along the lines of HH, that if Beck is starting behind this o-line, we aren't doing anything in 2011. Which is just fine by me, so long as the young players get experience and get better and we start to take a very long term view of this thing.

Of course, this could all be blown up if we go into free agency and sign everyone

The only issue I have is that I find it remarkable that Shanahan is really willing to wait four years or so to be competitive.

We stunk last year. We will probably stink worse this year with Beck. Hopefully, that leads to Luck. You figure Luck will need at least one year to take his lumps, per the usual pattern with these things. That means 2013 is the first time the team should be kind of okay.

If that's the plan, that's kind of ballsy for a coach who will be in his 60s by the time the team is ready to compete....and we had better end up with Luck or God help us all. But it clearly was not the plan at the beginning or the McNabb signing would not have happened.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Yep. This here is what I meant. Load up on draft picks this year and expecting to trade away their first day picks for better positioning.

Honestly, with the current QB/ offensive situation, I don't think we'll have to worry too much about having to move up too many spots in the draft. We'll be drafting right up the top end anyway's.

For all this talk of 'should we/ shouldn't we tank the season for the future', I honestly see us doing that without meaning to do it. We'll give our all in every game, but invariably come up short 9 times out of 10. But at least we're progressing. Even if the results don't yet show it.

Hail.

[SkinsHokieFan]

The only issue I have is that I find it remarkable that Shanahan is really willing to wait four years or so to be competitive.

We stunk last year. We will probably stink worse this year with Beck. Hopefully, that leads to Luck. You figure Luck will need at least one year to take his lumps, per the usual pattern with these things. That means 2013 is the first time the team should be kind of okay.

If that's the plan, that's kind of ballsy for a coach who will be in his 60s by the time the team is ready to compete....and we had better end up with Luck or God help us all. But it clearly was not the plan at the beginning or the McNabb signing would not have happened.

I agree with you. There is now way this was the "plan" in Februrary 2010. The plan was to quickly get in position to get Sam Bradford and go from there. Once that was not possible, it shifted to "lets be competitive with Mcnabb" and well we saw how that worked out.

I have no doubt Shanahan didn't expect to be noncompetitive for the first 3-4 years of his contract in DC.

[Hitman21ST]

I agree with you. There is now way this was the "plan" in Februrary 2010. The plan was to quickly get in position to get Sam Bradford and go from there. Once that was not possible, it shifted to "lets be competitive with Mcnabb" and well we saw how that worked out.

I have no doubt Shanahan didn't expect to be noncompetitive for the first 3-4 years of his contract in DC.

I agree completely that it wasn't the Shanaplan to not be competitive for the majority of his contract here. However, when he couldn't get Bradford - my guess would be more of a need at LT than the inability to get Bradford - that he wanted to be as competitive as possible in year one, thus trading for McNabb. I may be giving him too much credit, but it's possible he knew McNabb wouldn't work out here long-term, but he extended his contract in order to be able to get something back for McNabb this year, instead of letting him walk for nothing.

If that was the case, then to me anyway, this draft makes even more sense. He avoided drafting a QB to get help almost everywhere else it was needed - WR, RB, LB, DL, DB. With free agent OL coming in, he's getting the team ready for the franchise QB when we draft them. Be it Luck, Barkley, or Jones (I'm almost sure it's going to be one of those three), they'll be in a better position than Bradford was in coming in. Bradford did wonders for the Rams, almost got them to the playoffs in his rookie season, with much less talent at the skill positions than our rookie QB will be in. It's not out of the question, that in year three of Shanahan, we'll be competing for a playoff spot. We'll have an experienced defense in the 3-4, with players who fit it, and aren't the poison that in Haynesworth. We'll have a much better offense - experienced, talented youth at the skill positions, a respectable line, and possibly even more importantly, a backup QB with starter experience, in case the rook gets injured or has a rough start.

I'm not writing this season off by any means, but I'm leaning towards this season being a "break-in" season for the rookies so next year we'll be seriously competitive. If we make the playoffs, great. If not, I'm not going to go on suicide watch though.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I agree completely that it wasn't the Shanaplan to not be competitive for the majority of his contract here. However, when he couldn't get Bradford - my guess would be more of a need at LT than the inability to get Bradford - that he wanted to be as competitive as possible in year one, thus trading for McNabb. I may be giving him too much credit, but it's possible he knew McNabb wouldn't work out here long-term, but he extended his contract in order to be able to get something back for McNabb this year, instead of letting him walk for nothing.

Then why did he kill his trade value by benching him?

[Hitman21ST]

Then why did he kill his trade value by benching him?

Same reason he benched Haynesworth, only McNabb didn't give reason to label anything he did "conduct detrimental to the team" so Shanny said it was to evaluate Grossman - and part of it probably was

[MartinC]

Then why did he kill his trade value by benching him?

To be fair McNabb was killing his trade value quite well before he benched him.