Who is the more physically gifted QB Rex Grossman or John Beck? [Archive]

Mahons21

July-4th-2011, 07:40 PM

Why should I choose between two guys that have never done anything to impress me? They both are guys that have never won anything or led teams to championships in college or the NFL. Neither is special and they have too many questions about them otherwise they wouldn't be with the Redskins which is their third team in their NFL career's. Not exactly screaming of physicaally gifted now is it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_Grossman

As a college quarterback, Grossman led the Florida Gators (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Gators_football) to the 2000 Southeastern Conference (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeastern_Conference) (SEC) Championship, the 2001 Sugar Bowl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Sugar_Bowl), the 2002 Orange Bowl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Bowl) and the 2003 Outback Bowl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outback_Bowl). He was an All-American and the runner-up for the Heisman Trophy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heisman_Trophy) in 2001.......

He completed his first full NFL season in 2006 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Chicago_Bears_season), leading the Bears to a National Football Conference Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFC_Championship) and a Super Bowl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl) berth

Come no now Rex is easy to bash, but at least be honest.

HAILSKINSNYC

July-4th-2011, 07:44 PM

Beck....but that's not saying much

thebluefood

July-4th-2011, 08:14 PM

How low have we come that we have to pick between Rex Grossman and John friggin' Beck?

STBonecrusher21

July-4th-2011, 08:16 PM

How low have we come that we have to pick between Rex Grossman and John friggin' Beck?

Uhh. Is there another QB on our roster worth naming?

Goingforburgundy

July-4th-2011, 09:13 PM

I instantly thought of a South Park Episode as I saw this question.

http://southparkstudios.mtvnimages.com/shared/characters/non-human/giant-douche-and-turd-sandwich.jpg

I cant really choose between them

gutlead74

July-4th-2011, 09:31 PM

I pick option 4) this poll is depressing.

scruffylookin

July-4th-2011, 09:41 PM

Easily Rex. He's actually done something and his college career destroys Beck as well. Beck has literally done nothing to base an opinion on.

skins2victory

July-4th-2011, 10:23 PM

Easily Rex. He's actually done something and his college career destroys Beck as well. Beck has literally done nothing to base an opinion on.

I agree with you...... Lots of people bashing Rex on here suprizes me. Why Rex is not the best QB by far, he did have us in all of the games he started last year. He threw 4 TD passes in the Dallas game. I love all the new draft picks we added, and I actually think if Rex starts for us this year we will have a good chance to win games.

-I really dont know much about Beck, so im not going to vote on the poll. But I do think Rex has a good arm

Hitman21ST

July-4th-2011, 10:24 PM

Beck. More mobile, just as good an arm.

No more Sex Cannon, let's go with Beck's Cannon

darrelgreenie

July-4th-2011, 10:25 PM

Why should I choose between two guys that have never done anything to impress me? I don't follow.
What does them not impressing you have to do with which QB is more physically gifted?

They both are guys that have never won anything or led teams to championships in college or the NFL. Neither is special and they have too many questions about them otherwise they wouldn't be with the Redskins which is their third team in their NFL career's. Not exactly screaming of physicaally gifted now is it? Nothing you mention has anything to do with my question.
The question I'm asking is specific.
You chose to go in some other direction.
So I ask again, which QB do you think is more physically gifted (or has a better physical skillset)?

---------- Post added July-4th-2011 at 11:31 PM ----------

Easily Rex. He's actually done something and his college career destroys Beck as well. Beck has literally done nothing to base an opinion on.To be fair the question is about physical attributes not about their college accomplishments. (and for the record Beck's college stats are impressive)

B55Green

July-4th-2011, 10:33 PM

Easily Rex. He's actually done something and his college career destroys Beck as well. Beck has literally done nothing to base an opinion on.

I don't know if I agree scruffy. Naturally Grossman has a better record for the NFL, but to compare his NFL career to Beck, who only has started 5 games total (which was in his first season), I think is a bit premature. Remember he was also in Baltimore and when you have a QB like Flacco doing well, you aren't going to be given a chance.

Naturally I don't find Grossman impressive at all (not saying you do, considering this is between the two), but all that success the Bears had can be handed to their D and Hester. I remember in 06 Bears fans hating on him hardcore, probably because of this:

http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/6945/rgrossmanstats2006.png

With that said, looking at their college careers, I really don't see anything to say Grossman is 'that much better.' Simple fact being, Grossman play for Florida, Beck was at BYU. No disrespect to BYU, but I think we all know who has the better program between the two.

This is their stats from their last three years (being Grossman didn't play Freshman).

2000 - 131/212...61.8%....1,866.....21TD...7INT
2001 - 259/395...65.6%....3,896.....34TD...12INT
2002 - 287/503...57.1%....3,402.....22TD...17INT

2004 - 192/343...56.0%....2,563.....15TD...8INT
2005 - 331/513...64.5%....3,709.....27TD...13INT
2006 - 289/417...69.3%....3,885.....32TD...8INT

Each year Beck got better, where Grossman (much like his career in the NFL) went up and down. Personally I would take Beck over him because as I said, Grossman had the RB's and WR's to throw to, where Beck didn't.

I think Grossman has the better arm, but his accuracy is just flat out terrible, where Beck might not have a big arm, but his accuracy is decent.

Personally I believe it's worth giving Beck the shot, considering he could be our secret weapon. Nobody is expecting him to do things, but if he builds off of his college career, who knows what the guy is capable of. He'll have a decent line, young WR's, running core, much better than he would at BYU.

We'll see what happens though. Could you tell I was bored tonight :ols:

GhostofSparta

July-4th-2011, 10:38 PM

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_VXcyNeDp6As/SBaCDSOXyFI/AAAAAAAAAAk/W4akwe03l4E/s320/rexy.jpg

And it's not even close

skins2victory

July-4th-2011, 10:51 PM

Alot of ppl just look at Rex's 06 year with the bears and judge him on that up-down year he had. lol, like the **** it im going deep fan club above. He was alot younger then. Watching him last year in his starts I feel he is a totally different QB. His dession making skills have gotten much better.

Hitman21ST

July-4th-2011, 10:55 PM

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_VXcyNeDp6As/SBaCDSOXyFI/AAAAAAAAAAk/W4akwe03l4E/s320/rexy.jpg

And it's not even close

Every time I see this I literally laugh out loud.

:ols:

washedup2

July-4th-2011, 10:56 PM

Well, out of the two, I'd have to go with Beck. Still can't get over Grossmans 4th down play against the Giants, throwing to a wide open Austin as if he's 8ft tall. Just terrible, still shaking my head till this day about it.

really? you obviously never played any sports

Hitman21ST

July-4th-2011, 11:27 PM

really? you obviously never played any sports

Being disappointed in a horrible play means he never played sports?

B55Green

July-4th-2011, 11:37 PM

Being disappointed in a horrible play means he never played sports?

Haha apparently so.

Alot of ppl just look at Rex's 06 year with the bears and judge him on that up-down year he had. lol, like the **** it im going deep fan club above. He was alot younger then. Watching him last year in his starts I feel he is a totally different QB. His dession making skills have gotten much better.

Unfortunately I don't see it. I'm sure he's matured more, but he still makes bad decisions on the field. Perhaps if he had more time (playing with the team) he would have been better, I'm not sure, but look at his last three games of the season, he went up and down just like in 06. Perhaps not as drastic, but still did:

Week 15 - 25/43...58.1%....322...4TD...2INT
Week 16 - 19/39...48.7%....182...1TD...1INT
Week 17 - 26/44...59.1%....336...2TD...1INT

Hitman21ST

July-4th-2011, 11:49 PM

Unfortunately I don't see it. I'm sure he's matured more, but he still makes bad decisions on the field. Perhaps if he had more time (playing with the team) he would have been better, I'm not sure, but look at his last three games of the season, he went up and down just like in 06. Perhaps not as drastic, but still did:

Week 15 - 25/43...58.1%....322...4TD...2INT
Week 16 - 19/30...48.7%....182...1TD...1INT
Week 17 - 26/44...59.1%....336...2TD...1INT

:wtf: :whoknows:

19/30 is 63.3%, not 48.7%

B55Green

July-4th-2011, 11:52 PM

Sorry, that should have said 39, too close to the 0 haha.

Hitman21ST

July-4th-2011, 11:54 PM

Sorry, that should have said 39, too close to the 0 haha.

ah...makes much more sense now :thumbsup:

Xero21

July-5th-2011, 12:26 AM

...Why is everyone bringing up stats and wins and college championships and the like?

The question is about who is more "physically gifted." Not "who is the better QB" or "who would you rather have start for the Redskins."

Grossman definitely has the stronger arm, and Beck is probably only slightly faster then Grossman. So I'd have to go with Grossman overall.

Mahons21

July-5th-2011, 12:34 AM

Remember he was also in Baltimore and when you have a QB like Flacco doing well, you aren't going to be given a chance.

If I'm not mistaken he was only in BAL fora year and a half, he was not only behind Flacoo but Troy Smith as well and they traded him to us for a player they cut later that offseason. Prior to that Beck was sitting behind the likes of Chad Henne, and Chad Pennington. When a team that has QB's like that and it still cuts Beck, it says something.

Enter Apotheosis

July-5th-2011, 12:34 AM

Actually, Xero, Beck supposedly has a deceptively strong arm. He's a bit of a touch passer so you don't see too many rocket throws but he might actually have a better deep heave than Rex in addition to being more mobile.

Hubbs

July-5th-2011, 12:36 AM

You know what's funny? The thing that worries me most about Grossman isn't his interceptions. It's his fumbles, followed by his completion percentage.

I heard once that Rex has small hands. I'm sure that means "for a quarterback," but still, I completely believe it after watching him last year. I half-expected the ball to go popping into the sky every single time I knew he was about to get hit. Then there's the completion percentage. Most good quarterbacks in the league can consistently throw for 60% or better. (I don't mean that most don't have at least four or five games below 60%. I mean most manage to average at least 60%.) Rex... not so much.

His picks get all the attention for the same reason that Carlos' "anti-picks" get all the attention. They're big plays. Luckily, Carlos at least manages to overcome his problem by being quite good in almost all other aspects of the game. Rex doesn't.

darrelgreenie

July-5th-2011, 12:54 AM

If I'm not mistaken he was only in BAL fora year and a half, he was not only behind Flacoo but Troy Smith as well and they traded him to us for a player they cut later that offseason. Prior to that Beck was sitting behind the likes of Chad Henne, and Chad Pennington. When a team that has QB's like that and it still cuts Beck, it says something.Beck was technically behind Troy Smith only b/c the Ravens drafted Smith (who was in line to be the starter ahead of Flacco prior to suffering a major illness) 2 years before Beck was even signed to the team by Cam Cameron.
In the 2010 pre-season Beck and Smith were in competition for the back-up spot which later became a moot point b/c the Ravens signed Bulger.

You make it sound like John Beck's situation with the Dolphins is somehow an indictment on his abilities as a QB.
But, it simply an example of what happens to a rookie QB drafted by a regime that gets canned: they get stuck in limbo.
The new regime goes with their guys.
The Dolphins drafted Henne and Pennington was Parcell's boy.

Anyway, how do you think Rex and Beck compare from a physical skillset stand point?

Pedro

July-5th-2011, 06:37 AM

They both have an NFL arm, neither is particularly fast running but they can both scramble. Can they both take QB hits? Grossman can, not sure on Beck due my lack of knowledge on him. If the answer is yes I'd say they both tick all the required boxes without being stand out.

I know the question is who is better physically, so I'll go with what I know now and say Grossman based on the extra tick for ability to take hits. I'd still play Beck over him due the cerebral part of the QB position, from watching him online over this off season he anticipates in the passing game and is accurate. That's been missing for a while in B&G and IMO is what Kyle needs for his O to shine.

pjfootballer

July-5th-2011, 12:43 PM

Rex at this point. What exactly has Beck done that show's you he's more physically gifted? A few preseason games?

LetThePointsSoar

July-5th-2011, 12:51 PM

I personally don't get all the Rex bashing - I mean are you talking about the fumbles and interceptions and stuff?

Sorry, had to channel some inner Vinny for a second for comedic relief.

But on a serious note, I stil lthink Rex has the stronger arm, so @ this point, I went w/ Rex. Maybe Beck ends up being the guy and shows us more, would be a nice surprise.

darrelgreenie

July-5th-2011, 12:58 PM

Rex at this point. What exactly has Beck done that show's you he's more physically gifted? A few preseason games?What hasn't Beck done that prevents you from assessing his physical skillset?
Its a fairly straight forward assesment: size, arm strength, accuracy, athleticism, running ability, quickness etc.

pjfootballer

July-5th-2011, 01:02 PM

What hasn't Beck done that prevents you from assessing his physical skillset?
Its a fairly straight forward assesment: size, arm strength, accuracy, athleticism, running ability, quickness etc.

And I'm saying there is nothing on film that shows me that except a couple of preseason games. The same thing Colt Brennen was bashed for. There isn't enough game information for me to assess him. I mean, his physical attributes (height, weight) are listed. I've not see him run. I've not seen him pass. I've not seen his arm in a real game. I've not seen his athleticism/running ability in a game. I can't just go on what the scouts have observed in practice. I've seen Rex play in games.

darrelgreenie

July-5th-2011, 01:21 PM

And I'm saying there is nothing on film that shows me that except a couple of preseason games. The same thing Colt Brennen was bashed for. There isn't enough game information for me to assess him. I mean, his physical attributes (height, weight) are listed. I've not see him run. I've not seen him pass. I've not seen his arm in a real game. I've not seen his athleticism/running ability in a game. I can't just go on what the scouts have observed in practice. I've seen Rex play in games.That's cool.
For me a guys arm stength is their arm strength wether in pre-season or regular season.
I'm not asking to assess his decision making or ability to read defenses; for me physical skillset is apparent and can be easily assessed.
That's actually one of the purposes of preseason: to assess players in live action.

Mahons21

July-5th-2011, 02:04 PM

Wasn't able to motivate myself to continue the job search today, so I've spent the last 45 minutes or so watching Beck pre-season v Jets/Cards, and Grossman Cowboys/2nd half of GNats

My overall observations:
-Neither possesses over the top elite arm strength, but they don't lack NFL arm-strength either so I'd just say that'd be a wash.
-Grossman in my opinion is clearly the more accurate of the two QB's and I believe this may be due to the next point
-Beck is lighter on his feet but Grossman keeps himself in better position to get off an accurate throw when running with the ball.
-Neither has ideal pocket presence, Grossman back-pedals the day away and Beck takes his eyes off down-field way too quickly.
-Grossman appears much more confident in his throws, while Beck holds on to the ball a little longer
-Beck doesn't seem to throw into the secondary much at all, only one pass that could have been caught that Austin dropped that I recall.

Other random tidbits from watching those clips:
-Jamaal Brown needs to be given serious consideration and offered a descent contract but not LT money that he reportedly is searching for.
-Terrence Austin knows how to get open, I thought that when I watched his college highlights, and I'm a firm believer in it again after watching the pre-season clips. TA just has a knack for finding the soft-spot on the zone and giving his QB a nice throwing lane, I think it will be fun to watch him battle it out with Kelly this year for what I assume will be the #4 position.

greenspandan

July-5th-2011, 02:19 PM

bring back Colt.

OuterBanksTarHeel

July-5th-2011, 03:07 PM

I'm not sure I understand the point in isolating a player's physical attributes from other intangibles, as if the "physical" is somehow separate from the brain when playing football. Arm strength is not just brute strength, for instance, because the amount of strength used depends on various outside factors. For instance, JC had a strong arm, but it didn't really mean anything when he constantly sailed the ball over WR's heads.

This is all a fancy way of saying that I'm not sure I understand the larger point in isolating a QB's "physical" attributes and shutting down all potential talk about how those attributes connect to other factors.

darrelgreenie

July-5th-2011, 03:44 PM

as if the "physical" is somehow separate from the brain when playing football.You're mistaking your assumption for my beliefs.

This is all a fancy way of saying that I'm not sure I understand the larger point in isolating a QB's "physical" attributes and shutting down all potential talk about how those attributes connect to other factors.Hey dude, you're welcome to start any thread and discuss any aspect of John Beck vs Rex Grossman you like.
I'm "isolating" physical attributes b/c I was curious about how the forum views judges their physical skillsets.
I'm trying keep the focus on their physical differences because its much easier to judge and there are far too many other aspects of their overall skillset to fit into 1 thread.

LetThePointsSoar

July-5th-2011, 03:57 PM

bring back Colt.

Shoot me now.

Hooper

July-5th-2011, 04:17 PM

I think it's a wash. Grossman has shown he can fling it and the players told John Keim or Rich Campbell that he has the stronger arm. Then again, could be Beck technically has the stronger arm but has to sacrifice velocity for accuracy when throwing more than 10-15 yards. Again, it's a wash. Neither has awesome physical gifts, but both have enough.

Should be an interesting battle in camp. The media keeps saying Beck is the guy but I think that has more to do with Shanahan building him up and Rex not being under contract. The players certainly don't seem to be buying into the "Beck is definitely the guy" line out there. Cooley definitely downplayed that talk while going out of his way to praise Rex in recent interviews. I think it's very much an open competition and for better or worse, we haven't had one of those in a long time, even when we clearly should have.

I think whoever wins the job will do better than people think. Let's just move on from McNabb and the drama and have two guys who don't feel entitled to anything fight it out for the job.

Rdskns2000

July-5th-2011, 05:41 PM

It doesn't matter. Everyone knows this years starting QBS are nothing more than placeholders for the franchise QB that will be drafted in 2012.

Hooper

July-5th-2011, 05:53 PM

It doesn't matter. Everyone knows this years starting QBS are nothing more than placeholders for the franchise QB that will be drafted in 2012.

I think it matters because I think either guy could surprise.

Plus, even if we do draft a QB next year there is no guarantee they will start for day one. So if Rex or Becks plays decent, they could be starting for two years.

paloosa

July-5th-2011, 07:06 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_Grossman

Come no now Rex is easy to bash, but at least be honest.

I am honest about it. Many Quarterbacks have done the same thing but haven't done a thing in the NFl. Grossman didn't win that Super Bopwl and it wasn't Grossman's QB play that got the Bears to the Super Bowl. So lets be honest and tell the real story about that team. It was the Bears Defense that got them there and not Rex Grossman. Also don't get me wrong, I watched Grossman during his college career and was very impressed by his play at Florida but I wasn't sure if his talent would translate to the NFL. The problem is that there are too many like Beck and Grossman to pick from and very little picks at a guy like Manning or Brady. So if Grossman is that good then why is he with his third team? Name a Florida QB that was coached by Steve Spurrier that did anything in the NFL?

VetMinimum+Incentives

July-5th-2011, 11:54 PM

There is a hell of alot more to being a winning quarterback than physical talent.

Case in point, Kyle Boller is more "physically gifted" than Joe Montana but who would you rather have (in their prime) under center for your team?

darrelgreenie

July-6th-2011, 06:47 AM

There is a hell of alot more to being a winning quarterback than physical talent.Thank you captain obvious.
You realize no one in this thread is making the claim that physical talent is all there is to being a winning QB right?
See post #44`

Case in point, Kyle Boller is more "physically gifted" than Joe Montana but who would you rather have (in their prime) under center for your team?Even though you picked an argument no one is making, you still chose a poor example.
Kyle Boller had a strong arm and timed fast but there was little athleticism i.e. playmaking to his game.
Joe Montana had phenomenal physical gifts for the QB position.
He was exceptionally quick, with feet like a ballerina.
He had exceptional accuracy, quick release.
His excellent/graceful movement skills allowed him to avoid the rush and be a playmaker.

But, back to the thread topic.
Care to comment on which QB you think is more physically gifted?

cweed15

July-6th-2011, 10:47 AM

why is mcnabb so out of the question...not saying its the best idea but why not let him fight for the position as well just in case

darrelgreenie

July-6th-2011, 11:16 AM

why is mcnabb so out of the question...not saying its the best idea but why not let him fight for the position as well just in caseWhy is McNabb out of the question for which QB is the most physically gifted?

2 reasons: Odds are McNabb won't be on the Redskins roster and I don't have a question/interest in knowing whose more physically gifted between McNabb, Rex and Beck.

BTW-Who do you think is more physically gifted between Rex and Beck?

paloosa

July-6th-2011, 11:53 AM

Why is McNabb out of the question for which QB is the most physically gifted?

2 reasons: Odds are McNabb won't be on the Redskins roster and I don't have a question/interest in knowing whose more physically gifted between McNabb, Rex and Beck.

BTW-Who do you think is more physically gifted between Rex and Beck?

What odds? The media's? From what McNabb haas said and what Allen said in his interview, just recently on the subject of McNabb, they both want this to work. Shanahan never said he doesn't want McNabb back. As far as I know, and maybe someone can provide evidence to the contrary, no one in the Redskins front office or on the coaching staff has said that McNabb is not in their plans. Everyone wants to put Rex Grossman in the discussion as an option when he is not even under contract with the Redskins and McNabb is. If Grossman was an option then why didn't they extend his contract or sign him at the end of the season? Grossman wants to be here, Beck wants to be the starter, and McNabb wants both. So this discussion about who is the most physically gifted is something that isn't even set in stone as even happening. The benching of McNabb last yeaar was wrong because you don't do that unless you know the season is lost and you want to see whaat you have at back up. If Beck was the future then he would have started or played games last year. Grossman staarted and played the last 4 or 5 games but didn't impress either Shanahan or Allen otherwise they would have signed him to at least an extension after the season but they didn't Now that draft has gone by and FA has been delayed I really think that McNabb will be here as the starter with Beck as the backup and sign someone else to be aa third option. I think that there will be competition for the starting position but McNAbb will beat out Beck for the job. Beck and Grossman remind me of another guy that had NFL talent but never became more than a back up plan. Todd Collins.

The Tris

July-6th-2011, 12:06 PM

Name a Florida QB that was coached by Steve Spurrier that did anything in the NFL?

Prior to Aaron Rodgers, name a Jeff Tedford QB that did anything in the NFL.

This has nothing to do with Grossman, but simply to point out the fallacy that is assuming any QB from X college or X coach will be a bust.

---------- Post added July-6th-2011 at 01:08 PM ----------

Grossman staarted and played the last 4 or 5 games but didn't impress either Shanahan or Allen otherwise they would have signed him to at least an extension after the season but they didn't.

They also didn't sign Santana Moss to an extension after the season, does that mean they aren't interested in resigning him either?

darrelgreenie

July-6th-2011, 12:13 PM

...[whole bunch of completely off topic stuff].....Beck and Grossman remind me of another guy that had NFL talent but never became more than a back up plan. Todd Collins.I know this is extremeskins where threads often veer off topic.
But, you've made no attempt to respond to the thread at all, which is fine but you haven't even responded to another post in this thread.
Why post in a thread/poll about a topic in which you have no interest?

So I ask again between Rex and Beck who do you think is more physically gifted?

Hooper

July-6th-2011, 01:08 PM

Chump Bailey

July-6th-2011, 01:16 PM

I personally think it's pretty close to a wash between the two, but I am inclined to go with Beck by a hair. I think Beck is also the better pure passer.

darrelgreenie

July-6th-2011, 01:38 PM

I suspect most posters think there is very little real difference between Beck and Rex's physical gifts so they're not really answering your question.

Of course I could be wrong. I may be nuts in fact. After all, I'm actually excited about a Rex/Beck competition and think whoever wins is going to put up some very good numbers.
The poll results are all I really need to get my answer.
And even answering that they think there is no difference between the physical skillset of Rex and Beck is an answer to my question.

I'm not sure about very good numbers, but I think whomever the QB is next year be it Rex or Beck or a FA/trade to be named later that QB will put up better numbers then people in this forum expect.
In fact my faith in Mike/Kyle's ability to coach and evaluate the QB position hangs the success of the QB they chose.
I believe Mike Shanahan when he says he has a plan for the QB position.
I also agree with Chris Cooley:
edit quote/link:
Obviously, they passed on a lot of guys that they had a chance to draft, so either they really like John Beck and Rex Grossman or they have someone else in mind
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d8201f9ce/Cooley-McNabb-won-t-return

If the staff/FO chose to ignore the QB position entirely during the draft then they should have a viable answer to our QB quandry.

So count me as nuts too then.
Because I'm looking forward to watching our passing offense next year; especially if the Burgundy and Gold re-sign Moss.

Hooper

July-6th-2011, 01:46 PM

I'm not sure about very good numbers, but I think whomever the QB is next year be it Rex or Beck or a FA/trade to be named later that QB will put up better numbers then people in this forum expect.
In fact my faith in Mike/Kyle's ability to coach and evaluate the QB position hangs the success of the QB they chose.
I believe Mike Shanahan when he says he has a plan for the QB position.
I also agree with Chris Cooley:

If the staff/FO chose to ignore the QB position entirely during the draft then they should have a viable answer to our QB quandry.

So count me as nuts too then.
Because I'm looking forward to watching our passing offense next year; especially if the Burgundy and Gold re-sign Moss.

Agree 100 percent.

Lombardi's_kid_brother

July-6th-2011, 02:39 PM

I have never seen Beck play.

So, I'm going with Beck.

zoony

July-6th-2011, 05:31 PM

I have never seen Beck play.

So, I'm going with Beck.

:ols:

Further, the thread title is a sad commentary on the state of our franchise.

Dex_is_the_Manley

July-6th-2011, 08:31 PM

dont know. havent seen either one naked.

Park City Skins

July-6th-2011, 08:55 PM

dont know. havent seen either one naked.

And let's just hope it stays that way. For all of us. :paranoid:

For the record books,I'm still recovering from seeing those two names and "athletically gifted" in the same sentence.

:silly:

ConnSKINS26

July-6th-2011, 09:10 PM

darrelgreenie

July-6th-2011, 10:02 PM

An excelled read, from a very well-qualified observer:

http://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2011/07/06/emerging-nfl-talents-qb-john-beck-redskins/

Warning: kinda long (how long have "that's what she said" jokes been considered lame?)
I remember an article he wrote that we discussed in the draft thread.
I like the way this guy thinks.
And I like his breakdown format reminds me of...............
Thanks for the link Conn, I'm gonna add his breakdown of the Phins game to the A Closer Look at Beck thread.

BTW-What's your opinion Rex vs Beck from a skillset standpoint?

Floodzone004

July-6th-2011, 10:25 PM

I remember an article he wrote that we discussed in the draft thread.
I like the way this guy thinks.
And I like his breakdown format reminds me of...............
Thanks for the link Conn, I'm gonna add his breakdown of the Phins game to the A Closer Look at Beck thread.

BTW-What's your opinion Rex vs Beck from a skillset standpoint?

As I was reading that article earlier I was thinkin "This reminds me of DG's breakdowns" haha.

I've been following him on twitter for a while. Really enjoy reading his thoughts.

darrelgreenie

July-6th-2011, 10:57 PM

As I was reading that article earlier I was thinkin "This reminds me of DG's breakdowns" haha.

I've been following him on twitter for a while. Really enjoy reading his thoughts.You did a good breakdown of Beck's vs Cards pre-season game yourself. (Which I still owe you a reply to sorry)
I didn't know this guy was on twitter what's his twitter name?

TonePatron

July-6th-2011, 11:52 PM

I have never seen Beck play.

So, I'm going with Beck.

Lmao, nice.

Like I told all my friends, if we resign Rex, I'm totally getting a jersey. Reason being we are not going to be any good for a few years, and I honestly like to watch Rex play. It could be a 4 td game, or a 4 pick game. Pure entertainment. Les grossman, sexy rexy, the nicknames will be great. Buy in to the man they call Sexy Rexy DC.

I miss football

Floodzone004

July-7th-2011, 06:48 AM

You did a good breakdown of Beck's vs Cards pre-season game yourself. (Which I still owe you a reply to sorry)
I didn't know this guy was on twitter what's his twitter name?

I still need to do the second half of my breakdown man. I've already watched both preseason videos of him, just gotta write it down. Hopefully soon.

http://twitter.com/#!/MattWaldman

carverkid

July-7th-2011, 08:39 AM

An excellent read, from a very well-qualified observer:

http://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2011/07/06/emerging-nfl-talents-qb-john-beck-redskins/

Warning: kinda long (how long have "that's what she said" jokes been considered lame?)

Enjoyed the article.

EDIT: had other comments, but received a thoughtful email from Matt Waldman, and decided to retract.

Hooper

July-7th-2011, 11:39 AM

Lmao, nice.

Like I told all my friends, if we resign Rex, I'm totally getting a jersey. Reason being we are not going to be any good for a few years, and I honestly like to watch Rex play. It could be a 4 td game, or a 4 pick game. Pure entertainment. Les grossman, sexy rexy, the nicknames will be great. Buy in to the man they call Sexy Rexy DC.

I miss football

I miss it too. And I could totally see Rex throwing for 35 tds and 30 picks. For better and for worse, dude is a gunslinger.

bulldog

July-7th-2011, 06:39 PM

4 games in 2007 for a 1-15 team that had little talent on it in Miami? :)

Who knows WHAT Beck has to offer?

My only concern is that Ozzie Newsome who is a pretty shrewd GM had the chance to watch Beck in practice every day and didn't have any regrets in shipping him to the Redskins for a ham sandwich.

darrelgreenie

July-7th-2011, 07:04 PM

4 games in 2007 for a 1-15 team that had little talent on it in Miami? :)

Who knows WHAT Beck has to offer?No doubt.
But, if you've seen Beck or heard about Beck or did a google search.

Based on what you know about Beck's physical skillset do you think he or Rex has more physical talent?

paloosa

July-7th-2011, 08:22 PM

I know this is extremeskins where threads often veer off topic.
But, you've made no attempt to respond to the thread at all, which is fine but you haven't even responded to another post in this thread.
Why post in a thread/poll about a topic in which you have no interest?

So I ask again between Rex and Beck who do you think is more physically gifted?

I am sorry that I haven't answered the question to your liking. This is extremeskins and I have posted in several other threads. You asking me to answer a question about two QB's that are on the same level in abilities and you want to know who I think is more physicaally gifted. Well I think that the word physically gifted, Rex Grossman and John Beck don't really come to mind. Neither has impressed me and if I answer the way I have then it is my right to do so. Telling me that I haven't answered the question the way you want people to is not always going to happen. So why is so importnt that I answer your question the way you want me to?

ConnSKINS26

July-7th-2011, 09:58 PM

I am sorry that I haven't answered the question to your liking. This is extremeskins and I have posted in several other threads. You asking me to answer a question about two QB's that are on the same level in abilities and you want to know who I think is more physicaally gifted. Well I think that the word physically gifted, Rex Grossman and John Beck don't really come to mind. Neither has impressed me and if I answer the way I have then it is my right to do so. Telling me that I haven't answered the question the way you want people to is not always going to happen. So why is so importnt that I answer your question the way you want me to?

Because that is the thread topic. It's right in the title. You chose to click on the thread and respond. If you didnt have something to contribute, you shouldn't have.

As for me, I think that Beck is more physically gifted. I think that Grossman's obvious gunslinger mentality tricks people into thinking he's got a great arm. Now, I think he's got an adequate arm, and likes throwing it deep. But the velocity isn't there throwing down the field. You see lots of wobble. Now, that could have something to do with Grossman's sitting the Bench for a few years. But it's not like he hasn't been throwing.

Beck has a quick, if sometimes awkward, release. His ball, to me, is plainly more of a strike. I think that he relies more on anticipation, and without being an expert in this scheme, I think that's why some think he's forcing balls. Once he's comfortable, I think people will see how much of an asset his arm can be. When he knows where he's going with the ball, I don't think you'll see it flutter or sail like Grossman's has a tendency to do.

As for mobility, I don't think either are exceltional, in the pocket or out, but Beck looks lighter on his feet to me.

ATLredskin

July-8th-2011, 12:55 AM

Once he's comfortable, I think people will see how much of an asset his arm can be. When he knows where he's going with the ball, I don't think you'll see it flutter or sail like Grossman's has a tendency to do.

How would you know that???

SpacePenguin

July-8th-2011, 01:19 AM

How would you know that???

This whole thread is opinion. I haven't seen anyone link to 40 times for these decidedly unathletic QBs. LOL

Why not give him his opinion? I'd agree Beck throws a nicer looking ball downfield, from what limited film I've seen on him. Is it really that unbelievable?

Anyways, no offense intended, they'll probably sign Vince Young in a week anyways knowing the Skins.

addicted

July-8th-2011, 02:22 AM

What hasn't Beck done that prevents you from assessing his physical skillset?
Its a fairly straight forward assesment: size, arm strength, accuracy, athleticism, running ability, quickness etc.

Practice, combine scores, and college play doesn't translate to being a good NFL starting QB
Ever heard of practice heroes? Guys who look great in practice but not in game day situations?
If you only needed physical gifts from your QB to be a good NFL QB then guys like Ryan Leaf, Jarmarcus Russell and Jeff George would have been great
What is this exercise proving exactly?

The answer is Grossman.
Grossman wins in almost every area because this is the NFL, it's not college
You want fans to decide what the coaches have been clear on since Beck and Grossman entered the league
Judging someones physical gifts doesn't mean anything if they can't get it done in games
Anyone saying Beck needs to look at his games in this league.
Not all QB's pan out, very few actually do.
One guy never starts, is a 3rd stringer bounced around from team to team
The others been to the Superbowl and more importantly started every game and took every snap for us last year McNabb didn't
The QB shouldn't be based on physical talents alone
And if Beck truly is the more physically talented QB as you want us to believe then its disappointing at the least he's never earned a shot to show that

Truth is Beck has shown nothing in this league and has been passed over by two other teams before we got him
When we got him we proceeded to pass him over as well

Do you really only think it was just only a terrible team Beck played for that made him throw only 1 TD in his 5 total NFL starts?
1 TD pass...5 NFL starts
He led his team to a 3 to 0 loss at home

What does that speak about his ability?

If Beck was as good and talented as you say why has he never been given a chance to start for any of the teams he's been on since 2007?

Today we have way too many questions about John Beck for anyone to feel certain about him positively unless your just being positive because the team because they said he was good. To me I'm not down on the guy but that's not a resume that I'd stick my neck out for in support of unless I was forced. In the end his play will show on the field. If he's any good and we lucked into a good QB then I will be happy and support him loudly. Longshots sometimes pan out but truth is its much more likely we will see what fans in Miami and Baltimore have already and be disappointed.

LaRonDontLikeUgly

July-8th-2011, 02:42 AM

I think Beck wins in a triathlon, and Rex wins in anything related to being an NFL quarterback.

Floodzone004

July-8th-2011, 09:00 AM

I don't understand why the question of this thread is beyond some people. Who is more physically gifted? You're not being asked how pathetic our QB situation is or how Beck/Grossman suck.

I believe Beck is the more physically gifted but not by much. Beck's a bit taller, but his release sometimes makes him shorter. I'd say Beck is marginally more athletic. Like Conn was saying earlier, Grossman's arm is a little overrated because he launches throws everywhere, probably call it a wash there. Beck's release is definitely much quicker.

Again, the question is who is physically more gifted. We all know that physical gifts don't always translate to the NFL, nobody is trying to make that claim.

darrelgreenie

July-8th-2011, 10:24 AM

Practice, combine scores, and college play doesn't translate to being a good NFL starting QB
Ever heard of practice heroes? Guys who look great in practice but not in game day situations?
If you only needed physical gifts from your QB to be a good NFL QB then guys like Ryan Leaf, Jarmarcus Russell and Jeff George would have been great
What is this exercise proving exactly?

The answer is Grossman.
Grossman wins in almost every area because this is the NFL, it's not college
You want fans to decide what the coaches have been clear on since Beck and Grossman entered the league
Judging someones physical gifts doesn't mean anything if they can't get it done in games
Anyone saying Beck needs to look at his games in this league.
Not all QB's pan out, very few actually do.
One guy never starts, is a 3rd stringer bounced around from team to team
The others been to the Superbowl and more importantly started every game and took every snap for us last year McNabb didn't
The QB shouldn't be based on physical talents alone
And if Beck truly is the more physically talented QB as you want us to believe then its disappointing at the least he's never earned a shot to show that

Truth is Beck has shown nothing in this league and has been passed over by two other teams before we got him
When we got him we proceeded to pass him over as well

Do you really only think it was just only a terrible team Beck played for that made him throw only 1 TD in his 5 total NFL starts?
1 TD pass...5 NFL starts
He led his team to a 3 to 0 loss at home

What does that speak about his ability?

If Beck was as good and talented as you say why has he never been given a chance to start for any of the teams he's been on since 2007?

Today we have way too many questions about John Beck for anyone to feel certain about him positively unless your just being positive because the team because they said he was good. To me I'm not down on the guy but that's not a resume that I'd stick my neck out for in support of unless I was forced. In the end his play will show on the field. If he's any good and we lucked into a good QB then I will be happy and support him loudly. Longshots sometimes pan out but truth is its much more likely we will see what fans in Miami and Baltimore have already and be disappointed.
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9596/kobewhatever2.png

The answer is Grossman.
Grossman wins in almost every area because this is the NFL, it's not college
Cool.
I'm trying to understand your "this is the NFL, it's not college" statement and how/why it relates to the difference in physical skillset.

darrelgreenie

July-8th-2011, 02:30 PM

John Beck Scouting Report - Scouts, Inc.

http://a.espncdn.com/i/insider/pickcenter/logo_insider_pickcenter.png
Grade: 63 | Key (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/scouts/news/story?id=2996209)

Comment: Beck has adequate size and athleticism with solid arm strength. He has good release quickness and shows effective accuracy when he has time to set his feet. Beck isn't great to create out of the pocket, but can elude and deliver the ball to make plays downfield. He is a smart player who shows good vision downfield to take what the defense gives him. He doesn't have the power to fit the ball into tight windows but has enough arm strength to make all the throws with effective weight transfer and timing. Beck is a high-character person with great work ethic, toughness and intelligence

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rex Grossman Scouting Report - Scouts, Inc.

http://a.espncdn.com/i/insider/pickcenter/logo_insider_pickcenter.png
Grade: 56 | Key (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/scouts/news/story?id=2996209)

Comment: Grossman has been a backup quarterback for pretty much all of his seven years in the NFL since being drafted in the first round of the 2003 drafty by the Chicago Bears. He is an undersized quarterback with a strong arm but has a tendency to take too many chances when throwing the ball. He understands the game and can read coverages but needs to stay in the pocket to be most successful and lacks the speed and quickness to be much of a scrambler or to extend the pocket. He has a quick release once he decides to pull the trigger but does not have a great feel for the rush and tends to take too many sacks.

Hooper

July-8th-2011, 02:44 PM

Beck may technically have a stronger arm, but in the little game film we've seen of him, he doesn't seem to unleash it. Maybe because his accuracy suffers when he really lets it go. Who knows?

Plus, the players told John Keim or Rich Campbell that Grossman had a stronger arm.

I'm sure it's a minimal difference either way.

We know Grossman is capable of giving you a very bad game and a very good game. People tend to forget the latter.

We have yet to see Beck have anything close to a good game but he only played one year and for a bad team.

darrelgreenie

July-8th-2011, 02:46 PM

Hoop-
I know I've asked before and I'm not doubting you but where did you read/hear this? (link?)

Hooper

July-8th-2011, 03:01 PM

Hoop-
I know I've asked before and I'm not doubting you but where did you read/hear this? (link?)

It was either Keim or Rich Campbell on Twitter. They said they were surprised by it. I'll see if I can find it.

---------- Post added July-8th-2011 at 08:04 PM ----------

DG -- Just found one mention of it. It was Keim retweeting someone.

@BurgundyBlog anonymous Redskin told me last week Rex has stronger arm than Beck.

HAIL Freezes Ova

July-8th-2011, 03:05 PM

I
Personally I believe it's worth giving Beck the shot, considering he could be our secret weapon.

He'll have a decent line,

:ols::ols::ols::ols::ols: I'll have what this guy is smoking!!!!

darrelgreenie

July-8th-2011, 03:49 PM

It was either Keim or Rich Campbell on Twitter. They said they were surprised by it. I'll see if I can find it.

---------- Post added July-8th-2011 at 08:04 PM ----------

DG -- Just found one mention of it. It was Keim retweeting someone.

@BurgundyBlog anonymous Redskin told me last week Rex has stronger arm than Beck.Thanks,

addicted

July-8th-2011, 03:50 PM

Cool.
I'm trying to understand your "this is the NFL, it's not college" statement and how/why it relates to the difference in physical skillset.

I'm still waiting for you to explain why the question is relevant but whatever.
There should be a point to your thread. What is your point?

darrelgreenie

July-8th-2011, 04:18 PM

I'm still waiting for you to explain why the question is relevant but whatever.
There should be a point to your thread. What is your point?Relevant to what?
The point of the thread 2 fold 1) to vote in the pole 2) to answer the pole question/and if you want to explain the reasoning

Its really not that difficult a concept to get your head around.

Who is the more physically gifted QB Rex Grossman or John Beck?

Notice, the OP consists only of a question.

A question is commonly known as a sentence in an interrogative form, addressed to someone in order to get information in reply.

A question seeks to acquire knowledge about a particular topic/subject.

The purpose of a question is to illicit an answer.

Cheers

Floodzone004

July-8th-2011, 07:20 PM

I'm still waiting for you to explain why the question is relevant but whatever.
There should be a point to your thread. What is your point?

Why do you need explaining for why it's relevant? My 6 year old cousin could understand the relevancy of the question.

I think it's interesting hearing (and seeing with the poll) what everyone thinks. I have my own thoughts on everything but it's always refreshing to hear what other people say, even you addicted. Everyone is aware that Beck is an unknown quantity for the most part, even his biggest supporters, and it is a concern no doubt. I'm generally not a gambling man when evaluating NFL talent, but I'm willing to risk...well its not like we're amounting to anything this season, so I'm willing to risk a little bit more of a proven commodity for what I see as a player with a higher ceiling.

But again, this isn't what the OP was even talking about. Just the physical attributes between the two.

TGW21

July-8th-2011, 07:33 PM

Only Rex can release the dragon...

It's a no brainer

darrelgreenie

July-9th-2011, 12:13 AM

Long-time NFL scout Dave Razzano also believes Beck is worth a look (http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/redskins/2011/05/razzano-redskins-get-b-can-win-beck):

]“I did like (http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/redskins/2011/04/shanahan-beck-i-think-world-him)John Beck coming out of college. He had a terrible Senior Bowl game. At BYU I thought he was quick with his feet, and dropped quickly. He had a good release and was very accurate short and intermediate. He could scramble away from pressure. He had a real accurate arm, he just didn’t have great size. But I’ll tell you what, they loved him at BYU. They couldn’t say enough about him. They thought he had good accuracy and smarts. It was just a matter of getting an opportunity and staying in one system. It wouldn’t shock me if he’s their starter. I thought he could be. You probably want someone better in the long run but you can win with him. He’s better than Rex Grossman by a longshot. Grossman is erratic as hell. If Beck gets dialed in and he’s smart, he can handle that offense.”

MLSKINS

July-9th-2011, 12:29 AM

Grossman is erratic as hell. If Beck gets dialed in and he’s smart, he can handle that offense.”
To me, this is what it all boils down to. We already know what Grossman is capable of, he is the NFL's version of Two-face. I rather have a QB that keeps us in the games rather than trying to lose us the game. I think Beck can do that. Grossman can kick rocks as well as "Groundball" McNabb.

Chump Bailey

July-9th-2011, 05:23 AM

To me, this is what it all boils down to. We already know what Grossman is capable of, he is the NFL's version of Two-face. I rather have a QB that keeps us in the games rather than trying to lose us the game. I think Beck can do that. Grossman can kick rocks as well as "Groundball" McNabb.

I think he can was well. QB is most certainly priority one for next season. The OL SHOULD be better by that time and our young WR's/RB's will have valuable playing time under their belts too. All of this should help a rookie QB I would think.

Voice_of_Reason

July-9th-2011, 09:13 AM

Uhh. Is there another QB on our roster worth naming?

Well, to be technically correct, Grossman isn't on the roster and McNabb is. :) And McNabb is still more physically gifted than either Grossman or Beck.

The longer this lockout continues, the more I think that there's a possibility we all will be shocked, and Donovan will be under center for the opener. Whenever that is. I think in an ideal world, the 'Skins coaching staff would have evaluated Grossman and Beck in the off season, and then known more going into camp what they had. Since they're going in without that work, without those reps, McNabb might just win out. Grossman didn't exactly light it up and convince everybody that he was a shoe-in to be the starter/

Not that I'm advocating for McNabb starting, I'm just playing out a possible scenario.

addicted

July-9th-2011, 01:22 PM

Relevant to what?
The point of the thread 2 fold 1) to vote in the pole 2) to answer the pole question/and if you want to explain the reasoning

Well I'd actually take some meaning in this thread if

1. Physical gifts translated to the NFL on a consistent basis at QB position and equaled success but as I pointed out they don't. If all it took was physical talent then Beck would have gotten a start since 2007 right? If all it took was physical talents then the NFL would be much more successful at predetermining a QB's value right? Physical gifts mean next to nothing. Trent Dilfer won a Superbowl, Tom Brady was picked in the 6th round, guys like Jarmarcus Russel and Jeff George were complete busts, and not one team thinks that John Becks ever going to be a starting NFL QB. And I refuse to believe that Shanahan thought that Beck was any good last year because if he had thought that instead of Grossman getting those last three starts we would have seen Beck but alas we didn't because when it comes down to it our best shot at winning doesn't rest on Becks shoulders, they sit firmly on Rex's.

2. You'd stop dancing around the issues I brought up and didn't just post a stupid picture of Kobe Bryant as a response. You doing that just showed me that you had no answer for anything. This reply is another blow off to the many issues I brought up and I'm expecting just a snarky reply. If you just want to act like that why bother at all?

Beck's done NOTHING so far in his career. 1 TD pass in 5 professional starts, 0 wins, never got out of 3rd on the depth charts on the two teams he has been on, yet your silly insistence that it was "a regime change" argument is beyond tiresome and wrong. You want to live in a fantasy world be my guest but Baltimore and Miami aren't as dumb as you want people to believe they are. If Beck turns out to be anything valueable that would be great. But saying a pond is an ocean doesn't make it an ocean and the chances of him ever doing anything are next to none. Of course if I hated Rex Grossman as much as you do I'd probably be pushing John Beck as you have been too but I just want this team to be successful, and I'm not anti Grossman in the least, I support an open competition at the position and I hope the best man wins but I'm tired of the anti Grossman sentiment around here by some of you and think that if some of you weren't so anti Grossman that the Beck talk wouldn't continue.

I don't have any problem with Beck but some guys have the ability to play in this league and some don't and Beck imo has yet to ever show a single thing that says he can play in the NFL. Potential is just another word for disappointment and if Beck is truly the more gifted QB and can't out perform Grossman to get a start then he's just a bigger disappointment then even I imagined

darrelgreenie

July-9th-2011, 03:00 PM

...[truncated rant filled with strawmen and false claims about points that I'm not making].... just post a stupid picture of Kobe Bryant as a response. You doing that just showed me that you had no answer for anything.C'mon dude you're making it too easy:
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9596/kobewhatever2.png Seriously though, once you start using the quote feature I'll respond.
That way I'll be responding to a statement I've actually made rather then the ones you've invented.
And you won't be arguing with yourself.

If you just want to act like thatYou know I was thinking the same thing?

I don't have any problem with Beck http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9596/kobewhatever2.pngOf course not.

HTTR-
If you want to start a discussion about these other topics either start another thread or figure out a way to post that's less.....I don't know.....douche-like that way people might be more inclined to discuss/debate with you.

mossomo

July-9th-2011, 04:17 PM

Well, to be technically correct, Grossman isn't on the roster and McNabb is. :) And McNabb is still more physically gifted than either Grossman or Beck.

Maybe so but McNabb is out of here. He failed at the helm last season. Just seemed like he didn't have the passion anymore, was just another day on the job. And those "protecting his INT stat" ankle passes didn't help win me over, or DC.

Now, who's more physically gifted. Rex has a cannon for sure. Need more games with Beck throwing to starters to really answer that one.

Mr. Sinister

July-9th-2011, 04:34 PM

Rex Grossman by a country mile, but it really doesn't matter that much when you consider what he has to work with between the ears.

darrelgreenie

July-20th-2011, 09:27 PM

Like Schaub, Beck does a great job of moving up within the pocket to get out of trouble, and both quarterbacks keep their eyes upfield when flushed out of the pocket, looking for open receivers. While neither of the two will ever be confused for Michael Vick because of their speed, they have enough speed and instincts to run for a yard or two when all their receivers are covered.

In terms of physical talents, Beck is more gifted than Schaub. Beck's game film shows him consistently throwing a crisp and accurate ball with incredible velocity. One aspect of Beck's game that is particularly promising is his ability to place the ball where only his receiver can reach it. Even when his throw is off-target, it is placed ahead of his receivers instead of near defensive backs.

Additionally, Beck does an excellent job of going through his progressions and looking to multiple receivers on each play. The mental acuity to scan through reads until finding an open receiver is one of the most important intangible aspects of being an NFL quarterback, and is an ability Beck has displayed in his playing time.

Beck's potential is real, and it has former Washington Redskins quarterback Joe Theismann excited. In an interview with the Washington Post's Jason Reid, Theismann said he believes Beck can "be a quarterback in this town for four or five years." Theismann also said he doesn't see a difference between Beck and Philadelphia Eagles quarterback Kevin Kolb.

"John Beck and Kevin Kolb came out the same year," Theismann said.

"Because Eagles Coach Andy Reid named Kevin Kolb a starter for a half of a game, or a quarter of a game, we've anointed him the hottest free agent out there. But what has he done? I mean, really, what has he done? Then you take a look at John Beck, who sat for a number of years, who was in another bad situation offensively in Miami."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hank-koebler/redskins-beck-experiment-_b_905022.html

DeaconTheVillain

July-21st-2011, 10:08 AM

Rex Grossman is just awful. Not a winner at all.

He is gross

ConnSKINS26

July-21st-2011, 08:42 PM

Rex Grossman is just awful. Not a winner at all.

He is gross

Excellent contribution, exactly what the OP is looking for :silly:

Hitman21ST

July-21st-2011, 08:45 PM

Rex Grossman is just awful. Not a winner at all.

He is gross, man

Made it more LOL-sy for you ;)

texasthunder

July-21st-2011, 10:57 PM

Choice C== Vince Lamp Young

In The Barrel

July-22nd-2011, 12:34 PM

This poll is like asking someone if they want kicked in the
Head or kicked in the Groin... Either way it is going to
Hurt ..

darrelgreenie

July-22nd-2011, 12:50 PM

This poll is like asking someone if they want kicked in the
Head or kicked in the Groin... Either way it is going to
Hurt ..Right.
But, I'm actually curious to see what you and other members perceptions are of their physical skillsets.

MartinC

July-24th-2011, 01:58 PM

Coming to this party late (and without a bottle) but my 2cents would be that Beck has a stronger arm and better athletic ability than Grossman. I think both of their throwing motions and footwork are fine (I don't have a problem with Beck being a bit 3/4 in his release) so would grade them equal there.

So if you are looking at them purely from a physical point of view I would say Beck comes out on top. Of course physical ability is only a part of the puzzle when it comes to being an effective NFL starting QB.

JerseyGator

July-24th-2011, 02:35 PM

In this category, I would rate Schuler ahead of both of them.

warpath213

July-24th-2011, 03:45 PM

I pick option 4) this poll is depressing.

i went with i love lamp... but a sex cannon has to be pretty physically gifted, right?!?!

ciresolstice

July-24th-2011, 07:21 PM

I pick option 4) this poll is depressing.

Agreed. yeesh.

Chachie

July-25th-2011, 03:32 PM

ConnSKINS26

July-25th-2011, 04:35 PM

I cannot believe how many people picked John Beck when they have zero idea how good or bad he is. We simply have not seen enough football from him to make this call. For right now, I went with Grossman only because we've seen him in the Super Bowl. I know that's not a real indication of how good Rex is but we certainly don't know what Beck has.

The thread has nothing to do with who is "good" or "bad". Read the thread title. It's a simple question, based fully on one's opinion of their respective physical tools.

Hdf561

July-25th-2011, 04:46 PM

I think the biggest question is who gives us the better chance to win....The answer is Grossman, he knows the offense better and was more productive than Mcnabb who has been to several NFC championships and has been a elite QB in the NFL....if we have to go with someone I say its Rex with the understanding that he is not our future, and it will likely be a stop gap unless he produces well over his ability.

Truant

July-25th-2011, 04:49 PM

I already voted for Grossman and talked about it a long time ago, but I had a question Beck/Grossman lockout related.

I've read that free agents that are signed cannot workout with the team in any physically demanding manner (weights/practice) till August 4th. Would that apply for Rex even though he is "our" free agent?

If so, give Beck another point as he'll be the guy for about a week before Rex is allowed to play. With an abbreviated offseason that makes a big difference.

darrelgreenie

July-25th-2011, 05:11 PM

For right now, I went with Grossman only because we've seen him in the Super Bowl. I know that's not a real indication of how good Rex is but we certainly don't know what Beck has.Its great that Grossman played in the superbowl.

But, this thread isn't about how good Rex or Beck are its about physical skillset:

o arm strength/velocity
o accuracy
o footwork
o athleticism
o playmaking
o etc...

If you feel you haven't seen enough to judge I can respect that, but the topic you're broaching is separate from this thread (and could be a good thread).

---------- Post added July-25th-2011 at 06:22 PM ----------

I think the biggest question is who gives us the better chance to win...It may very well be the bigger question and probably thread worthy.
But, this thread isn't about the perception/discussion of who gives us a better chance to win.

This thread is an attempt,albiet a failed attempt, to discuss physical skillset.
(Because apparently people in this forum aren't interested in taking a stab at a critical look at skillset and actually discussing or giving their opinions on physical skillset)

I focus on physical skillset because,imo, its the most easily identifiable and quantifiable of the traits that make a QB.

There are of course other traits some of which are equally if not more important then physical skillset but there also nearly impossible for the laymen to judge.

A discussion of who is better or who gives us a better chance to win would make for a wildly subjective but good discussion.
But, this thread isn't about that.

My aim was to focus on one topic in regards to Beck and Grossman, and that topic is which QB do you think has a better physical skillset and why.

---------- Post added July-25th-2011 at 06:27 PM ----------

If so, give Beck another point as he'll be the guy for about a week before Rex is allowed to play. With an abbreviated offseason that makes a big difference.I'm not sure how the above increases Beck's physical skillset enough to earn him another point?

Hdf561

July-25th-2011, 06:28 PM

Its great that Grossman played in the superbowl.

But, this thread isn't about how good Rex or Beck are its about physical skillset:

o arm strength/velocity
o accuracy
o footwork
o athleticism
o playmaking
o etc...

If you feel you haven't seen enough to judge I can respect that, but the topic you're broaching is separate from this thread (and could be a good thread).

---------- Post added July-25th-2011 at 06:22 PM ----------

It may very well be the bigger question and probably thread worthy.
But, this thread isn't about the perception/discussion of who gives us a better chance to win.

This thread is an attempt,albiet a failed attempt, to discuss physical skillset.
(Because apparently people in this forum aren't interested in taking a stab at a critical look at skillset and actually discussing or giving their opinions on physical skillset)

I focus on physical skillset because,imo, its the most easily identifiable and quantifiable of the traits that make a QB.

There are of course other traits some of which are equally if not more important then physical skillset but there also nearly impossible for the laymen to judge.

A discussion of who is better or who gives us a better chance to win would make for a wildly subjective but good discussion.
But, this thread isn't about that.

My aim was to focus on one topic in regards to Beck and Grossman, and that topic is which QB do you think has a better physical skillset and why.

---------- Post added July-25th-2011 at 06:27 PM ----------

I'm not sure how the above increases Beck's physical skillset enough to earn him another point?

Ok well to me a part of his skill set is knowing the offense better than anyone else that could start for this team this season, that is a learned skill and a product of being in this system for a while, much like Todd Collins was a few years ago. Add to that his strong arm, and I think you have a better skill set. His problems of course immobility, and failure to feel the backside pressure can be fixed with blocking scheme in my opinion. We know he cant run, and he cant feel the back side so we stack the line to that side, and we work diligently to improve our o-line which should have been the priority for the past several years. Lets face it Tom Brady could not have won with the line that Patrick Ramsey, Mark Brunell, and Jason Campbell had to work with, and he has a great "skill set"

darrelgreenie

July-25th-2011, 07:28 PM

Add to that his strong arm, and I think you have a better skill set. His problems of course immobility, and failure to feel the backside pressure can be fixed with blocking scheme in my opinion. We know he cant run, and he cant feel the back side so we stack the line to that sideGrossman?
^^The above sounds like 1 "up" (arm strength) and 3 "downs" (immobility, lack of feel and inability to run).

What do you think about Beck?

Hdf561

July-25th-2011, 08:27 PM

Grossman?
^^The above sounds like 1 "up" (arm strength) and 3 "downs" (immobility, lack of feel and inability to run).

What do you think about Beck?

I think Beck has a weaker arm, and the same other problems as Grossman....there is a reason that he couldnt catch on with the other teams he played for, while Grossman went to the superbowl (sure you can say it was all defense, but you gotta score points to win the game and Devon Hester didnt score them all on KR) I also think that Grossman knows the offense better than Beck which is not Becks fault but gives the edge to Grossman.

He had his chance with the Dolphins to get it done, and couldnt beat out Josh Mcown, Chad Pennington, and Chad Henne to me that says worlds

Stadium-Armory

July-25th-2011, 08:58 PM

Hasselbeck, Carson Palmer, and Kolb are out there, and we're deciding between Beck and the Rexy? WTF. Even McNabb has more upside than Beck. ****.

ConnSKINS26

July-25th-2011, 09:01 PM

Hasselbeck, Carson Palmer, and Kolb are out there, and we're deciding between Beck and the Rexy? WTF. Even McNabb has more upside than Beck. ****.

A. At this point in McNabb's career, how do you know that?

B. You're in the wrong thread.

Stadium-Armory

July-25th-2011, 09:04 PM

Well, I certainly don't 'know it', but its my judgement as a football fan.

darrelgreenie

July-25th-2011, 10:38 PM

I think Beck has a weaker arm, and the same other problems as Grossman....You think Beck is immobile and can't run?

TonePatron

July-25th-2011, 11:01 PM

So I'm not allowed to post threads anymore. But I was just watching NFLN
and Rich Eisen ( Redskins hater). Told a story, about how John Beck
heard the Redskin doors will be open on Thursday of last week.
So he went there, but Security didn't let him in. Not that he wasn't allowed
but they didn't know who he was. Warren Sapp was laughing the whole time
Has anybody else heard this story????

HateYanksDukeCowboys

July-26th-2011, 10:49 AM

It really doesn't matter who's physically more gifted. Who is the better Quarterback?

As for all the folks taking this thread as an opportunity to bash the athletic shortcomings of both Beck and Grossman, almost to the point where one could believe they're crippled, I'd be willing to bet either one of them would embarrass anybody here in a pick-up game at a local school.

Not every QB is going to have the physical makeup of a John Elway, but these guys are still world-class athletes at the end of the day.

darrelgreenie

July-26th-2011, 01:06 PM

It really doesn't matter who's physically more gifted. Who is the better Quarterback?
Then you should start that thread.

This thread is discussion of physical skillset.

Care to talk about that?

HateYanksDukeCowboys

July-26th-2011, 01:57 PM

Then you should start that thread.

This thread is discussion of physical skillset.

Care to talk about that?

I don't think a thread (yet another) needs to be started about who the better QB is. My contribution to THIS thread is that imo, it doesn't matter who is more physically gifted.

darrelgreenie

July-26th-2011, 03:05 PM

I don't think a thread (yet another) needs to be started about who the better QB is. My contribution to THIS thread is that imo, it doesn't matter who is more physically gifted.Then why even post?

HateYanksDukeCowboys

July-26th-2011, 03:35 PM

Then why even post?

You must be the guy who started the thread.

I posted with the naive assumption that the thread starter wouldn't be a control-freak who expected every other poster in HIS thread to adhere to a strict guideline of rules surrounding what was and was not permissible to talk about in the thread that he owned.

Silly me.

darrelgreenie

July-26th-2011, 04:31 PM

You must be the guy who started the thread.

I posted with the naive assumption that the thread starter wouldn't be a control-freak who expected every other poster in HIS thread to adhere to a strict guideline of rules surrounding what was and was not permissible to talk about in the thread that he owned.

Silly me.Wow, imagine that?
I guy that asked a specific question in order to have a specific discussion wants the thread to stay on topic.

Shocking!

But, seriously though do you care to discuss their physical skillset.

HateYanksDukeCowboys

July-26th-2011, 04:36 PM

Wow, imagine that?
I guy that asked a specific question in order to have a specific discussion wants the thread to stay on topic.

Shocking!

But, seriously though do you care to discuss their physical skillset.

Relax dude.

Beck is more athletic, and may even have the stronger arm. There ya go.

darrelgreenie

July-26th-2011, 05:37 PM

Relax dudeYes, I do try to stay relaxed.
I'm easy breezy

Beck is more athletic, and may even have the stronger arm. There ya
go.It wasn't that hard now was it?

KokoMike

July-26th-2011, 06:17 PM

darrelgreenie

July-27th-2011, 07:41 PM

They are about even; both very average. Neither one is in the top five of the four team NFC East.

Who was the most gifted among all the Redskins QBs in history? Grossman and Beck probably wouldn't come in the top 20 on that list, either. One of the worst QBs in Redskins history might come in second: Jeff George. Sonny was # 1.

Its great that Grossman played in the superbowl.

But, this thread isn't about how good Rex or Beck are its about physical skillset:

o arm strength/velocity
o accuracy
o footwork
o athleticism
o playmaking
o etc...

If you feel you haven't seen enough to judge I can respect that, but the topic you're broaching is separate from this thread (and could be a good thread).

---------- Post added July-25th-2011 at 06:22 PM ----------

It may very well be the bigger question and probably thread worthy.
But, this thread isn't about the perception/discussion of who gives us a better chance to win.

This thread is an attempt,albiet a failed attempt, to discuss physical skillset.
(Because apparently people in this forum aren't interested in taking a stab at a critical look at skillset and actually discussing or giving their opinions on physical skillset)

I focus on physical skillset because,imo, its the most easily identifiable and quantifiable of the traits that make a QB.

There are of course other traits some of which are equally if not more important then physical skillset but there also nearly impossible for the laymen to judge.
A discussion of who is better or who gives us a better chance to win would make for a wildly subjective but good discussion.
But, this thread isn't about that.

My aim was to focus on one topic in regards to Beck and Grossman, and that topic is which QB do you think has a better physical skillset and why.[COLOR="][
Obviously, talent doesn't equate to success.
But, for my money the answer is Heath Shuler was easily the most physically talented modern Redskins QB.

Cutcliffe coached both Shuler and Manning and said that Shuler was more talented.

georgiaredskin

July-27th-2011, 08:54 PM

darrelgreenie

July-27th-2011, 10:04 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CPwOOK4nEM

I love lamp. The best 3rd poll option ever. And truly, I have no clue about Rex or Beck. But I doubt either of them make the 5th tier for QBs for fantasy. (hope Beck is as good as Shanny thinks)Best post in the thread by far.

The poll and this thread was very telling and eye opening for me.
I'm a football nerd and was surprised to learn or be (reminded actually) that despite people loud opinions in this forum they're not really inclined to get down to brass tacks and discuss their 'football' reasons.

But, I guess like my man Brick Tamland we all sometimes love lamp.

BRAVEONAWARPATH

July-28th-2011, 08:16 AM

Anthony Armstrong is being interviewed right now and he's talking about the differences between Beck and Grossman.

According to Anthony, Beck is more athletic and can get out of the pocket.

He also has a stronger arm.

HateYanksDukeCowboys

July-28th-2011, 09:01 AM

Beck is more athletic, and may even have the stronger arm. There ya go.

Seems Anthony Armstrong and I agree.

sontupelo

July-28th-2011, 09:11 AM

Grossman has proven time and again that he is obviously colorblind by throwing to the wrong colored jersey so for now I will say Beck.

kobra860

July-28th-2011, 02:13 PM

They're both equally bad.

Tazhog

July-28th-2011, 04:57 PM

Can you say.... CARSON PALMER TO WASHINGTON !!!

georgiaredskin

July-28th-2011, 05:25 PM

Best post in the thread by far.

The poll and this thread was very telling and eye opening for me.
I'm a football nerd and was surprised to learn or be (reminded actually) that despite people loud opinions in this forum they're not really inclined to get down to brass tacks and discuss their 'football' reasons.

But, I guess like my man Brick Tamland we all sometimes love lamp.

Muchas gracias!

That is (often) the Stadium for you. Don't you especially love it right after a game?

Oh yes we do. We love some lamp.

Beck is also a very hard worker and helped set up the off-season training. He flew in from California all of the time just to throw the ball with the WRs. Shanny loves guys like this and is looking for another Elway. A true leader of the team. The more I hear about Beck, the more I can't wait to see him play again.
Check out this article:
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/article/Redskins-keep-Santana-Moss-1596416.php

Also, I just can't wait until I love lamp surpasses Sexy Rexy in votes.

darrelgreenie

August-16th-2011, 04:16 AM

Beck seems to have a quick release, decent velocity (from what little I've seen...may I add I'm waiting until Tues to be able to watch the Steelers game when it gets re-aired), but is reportedly limited in terms of distance............

Grossman has distance, average velocity, decent accuracy, and a reasonably quick release. My concern with him, however, is his hands. I don't think he gets a decent enough grip on the ball, and as a result, his passes all too often tend to float.

Son of Gadsden

August-16th-2011, 05:32 AM

The current results of this poll are absolutely demoralizing.

darrelgreenie

August-16th-2011, 09:48 AM

The current results of this poll are absolutely demoralizing.Why?

Son of Gadsden

August-16th-2011, 11:08 AM

Rex Grossman, John Beck, and I Love Lamp are neck and neck and NECK.

darrelgreenie

August-16th-2011, 11:15 AM

Rex Grossman, John Beck, and I Love Lamp are neck and neck and NECK.But why is that absolutely demoralizing?
Its a poll nothing more then opinion not reality.

Son of Gadsden

August-16th-2011, 11:17 AM

But why is that absolutely demoralizing?
Its a poll nothing more then opinion not reality.

"depressing"?

darrelgreenie

August-16th-2011, 11:19 AM

Who do s2thalayer think is more physically gifted Beck or Rex?

Son of Gadsden

August-16th-2011, 11:37 AM

Who do s2thalayer think is more physically gifted Beck or Rex?

No idea.

darrelgreenie

August-16th-2011, 11:39 AM

No idea.What's your best guess?

Son of Gadsden

August-16th-2011, 11:44 AM

What's your best guess?

Taking experience out of the equation here because of "physical gift", probably Beck has the edge. Mostly because I think Rex has shown terrible judgement as to where the ball goes. Not saying I have no faith in Rex, he did great in preseason. Beck is unproven as far as that, so i'll give him the benefit of a doubt.

The depressing thing here is that we are forced to talk about these two guys, in fact, the same amount of fans that voted for each obviously are not impressed with the competition at all and vote "I love lamp". It's just a depressing situation. Don't get me wrong, I've got all the faith in the world in Shanahan's wisdom...but even SF has Alex Smith.

Mahons21

August-16th-2011, 11:45 AM

What are people hoping to see/not see from Beck?

I hope to see;
-His quick release/anticipation we've been hearing about.
-Him using his legs to create a play down-field
-Using his legs to move around the pocket as well
-Him take at least once chance down-field
-His 3/4 throw in action, will any of his balls get batted?

Hope I don't see;
-Him bail on the pocket and use his legs more than necessary, ie 1 read then duck n run
-Any wild inaccuracies down-field
-A Qb that is scared and consistently checks-down

darrelgreenie

August-16th-2011, 11:53 AM

The depressing thing here is that we are forced to talk about these two guys, in fact, the same amount of fans that voted for each obviously are not impressed with the competition at all and vote "I love lamp". It's just a depressing situation. Don't get me wrong, I've got all the faith in the world in Shanahan's wisdom...but even SF has Alex Smith.Or it could evidence that as fanbase we don't know what the heck we're looking at when it comes to evaluating QBs from a physical skillset standpoint?

I feel confident that Beck or Rex will have a much better season then people currently think.
I feel like a broken record but all you have to do is look at the passing game last year to know that this offense will produce good numbers from the QB position.

Hooper

August-16th-2011, 12:01 PM

Or it could evidence that as fanbase we don't know what the heck we're looking at when it comes to evaluating QBs from a physical skillset standpoint?

I feel confident that Beck or Rex will have a much better season then people currently think.
I feel like a broken record but all you have to do is look at the passing game last year to know that this offense will produce good numbers from the QB position.

Thank you, DG. I swear, it's like people just didn't watch Rex play last year. Yes, he turned the ball over more than you would like. He also threw for a ton of yards and tds. If his name wasn't Rex Grossman, the fans and media would be singing a different tune.

Very excited to see Beck play. Loved what he said about the most important thing being scoring tds.

Son of Gadsden

August-16th-2011, 12:15 PM

Thank you, DG. I swear, it's like people just didn't watch Rex play last year. Yes, he turned the ball over more than you would like. He also threw for a ton of yards and tds. If his name wasn't Rex Grossman, the fans and media would be singing a different tune.

Very excited to see Beck play. Loved what he said about the most important thing being scoring tds.

Yeah but Rex's problem has never been that he can't throw for yardage, his problem is that he is inconsistent. If you throw for 400 yards, but throw 3 interceptions, you still aren't getting very far. Exaggeration? Probably. I'm also not a Rex hater, i've got all the faith in the world that our QB's will get the job done because i trust Shanahan. I just wish had prospects that at least one other team had faith in too.

ConnSKINS26

August-16th-2011, 01:41 PM

Yeah but Rex's problem has never been that he can't throw for yardage, his problem is that he is inconsistent. If you throw for 400 yards, but throw 3 interceptions, you still aren't getting very far. Exaggeration? Probably. I'm also not a Rex hater, i've got all the faith in the world that our QB's will get the job done because i trust Shanahan. I just wish had prospects that at least one other team had faith in too.

Why? Who gives a **** what another team needs in a QB, if one of the two we have, or even both, fit in our system? That's all that matters, unless you're hung up on public perception. Which, many fans are.

Gibbs Hog Heaven

August-16th-2011, 01:59 PM

With Beck being named the starter in Indy today, and presumably getting something like the time Rex got last Friday; I guess we'll get judge with our own eyes the two in the space of 7 days.

Hail.

Lombardi's_kid_brother

August-16th-2011, 02:41 PM

Maybe we can have some kind of fun competition between them. Like the Laff-A-Lympics.

SpacePenguin

August-16th-2011, 07:24 PM

Why? Who gives a **** what another team needs in a QB, if one of the two we have, or even both, fit in our system? That's all that matters, unless you're hung up on public perception. Which, many fans are.

Nice post. It's hard to believe some fans still want name recognition over a QB that fits the system after the McNabb debacle. Unless your goals for the team are merchandise sales and respect from the talking heads.

In that case, go away Vinnie! ;p

As for the topic, from the film I've seen on Beck, he looks much smoother on bootlegs and can buy time in the pocket pretty well. Two things that Rex struggles with. I think, considering the heavy amount of PA stretches we see from Kyle, this is the reason Beck is favored by the staff off the bat.

Son of Gadsden

August-17th-2011, 08:59 AM

Nice post. It's hard to believe some fans still want name recognition over a QB that fits the system after the McNabb debacle. Unless your goals for the team are merchandise sales and respect from the talking heads.

In that case, go away Vinnie! ;p

As for the topic, from the film I've seen on Beck, he looks much smoother on bootlegs and can buy time in the pocket pretty well. Two things that Rex struggles with. I think, considering the heavy amount of PA stretches we see from Kyle, this is the reason Beck is favored by the staff off the bat.

It's not about names. It's about the fact that no one is afraid of Beck and Grossman, and honestly, probably rightfully so. Im not calling for a big name free agent, i just find it hard to believe that we couldnt pull in a Bulger or Orton until we can get a rookie. Not saying we should pay a lot, and I know im contradicting myself here. I think Rex and Beck could get the job done, and might be diamonds in the rough, i've got faith shanny knows what he is doing and i dont. Theres just part of me screaming "DID YOU JUST SAY YOU HAVE FAITH IN REX GROSSMAN!?"

darrelgreenie

August-17th-2011, 05:04 PM

1.) His throwing motion bugs me. Particularly the fact that he tends to side arm fling the ball when throwing to his right. His footwork is good (if not inconsistent), and his overall mechanics seem fine. But you see him side arm the ball a lot, which I think isn't very good. Looking back at the fourth preseason game versus the Cardinals and versus the Jets, he makes a few throws that could've been easily completed if he had planted his foot and thrown the ball instead of side-arming it. His receiver usually had to adjust to the ball, or he threw it into the ground. Neither is good.

Partner that with a low delivery, and I think it's going to mean some unnecessary incomplete passes on some easy throws, and some balls that are batted back at the line of scrimmage.

2.) I think he's got happy feet in the pocket sometimes, which leads to a break down in his otherwise solid fundamentals. It was a knock on him coming out of BYU, it followed him to Miami, it showed up in Baltimore in preseason at times, and it pops up in the Jets and Cardinals game from last season. That of course leads to some of those side arm throws I talk to, but it also contributed to the lack of velocity on some of his other throws. He's got an arm, but he has to be more consistent with his footwork and not be quite so eager to run, which I feel like he wants to do (which is what a lot of rookies want to do).

3.) You know, sometimes you admire the guts of a man who will throw the ball to Brandon Banks when he's matched up on Antonio Cromartie, or who will come within a hair of completing a pass to Terrence Austin with three guys around him...but you also have to question the decision making. I'm sure part of that was Kyle just saying "put it up there, let your guy make a play", but still. It's worry some.

4.) The arm strength. Which kinda goes hand and hand with his sorta 3/4's release and the happy feet in the pocket. It's seems like, just judging by the reports coming out of camp, it's not that he can't throw the deep ball. He can. But he's been overthrowing people, and his passes haven't looked pretty getting there. He's got the accuracy on the short and intermediate stuff, but I'd like to know he was going to be able to stretch the field on a consistent basis without throwing one of those McNabb-esque "You're either going to have to adjust like crazy to this football or it's going to be overthrown" kind of deals.

Of course I could be wrong about this. Probably am. But that's some of the stuff I notice that's formulated purely on my own opinions. And for the record, I like a lot more about John Beck than I don't. I do like Rex a bit more, though, I won't lie.

SocratesDC

August-17th-2011, 08:03 PM

Grossman is more physically gifted. Beck is not an NFL quarterback and I'm confused as to why he's even on the team. Hopefully personnel moves like this will convince Mr. Snyder to clean house.

darrelgreenie

August-17th-2011, 08:12 PM

Grossman is more physically gifted. Beck is not an NFL quarterback and I'm confused as to why he's even on the team..Why?
Arm strength?
Mobility?
Accuracy?
Hand size?
Pocket presence?
Decision making?

SocratesDC

August-17th-2011, 09:10 PM

Why?
Arm strength?
Mobility?
Accuracy?
Hand size?
Pocket presence?
Decision making?Grossman sucks and at best is a back up QB. But he at least has NFL arm strength and can understand pro offenses. Beck is not a professional football player. These are our quarterbacks though so we'll see how it goes. Shanahan is going to tank this season and that's fine, but he better hope the draft works out favorably next year or Mr. Snyder will clean house.

santanathegreat

August-17th-2011, 09:13 PM

Beck is not a professional football player.

Really? Last time I checked, he was a professional football player, getting paid by a professional football team. Unless there's something you know that the rest of us, including Shanahan, don't know, I'd say what you just posted is butt-stinkin-ridiculous.

SocratesDC

August-17th-2011, 09:24 PM

Really? Last time I checked, he was a professional football player, getting paid by a professional football team. Unless there's something you know that the rest of us, including Shanahan, don't know, I'd say what you just posted is butt-stinkin-ridiculous.Allow me to clarify for the mentally handicapped. Beck does not have NFL talent. Fortunately for Beck, not having NFL talent is par for the course for the Redskins so he'll probably last here 3-4 years.

santanathegreat

August-17th-2011, 09:28 PM

Allow me to clarify for the mentally handicapped. Beck does not have NFL talent. Fortunately for Beck, not having NFL talent is par for the course for the Redskins so he'll probably last here 3-4 years.

Thanks for that condescending reply. Also, thank you for enlightening us on what type of talent Beck does or does not have. You should send your comprehensive scouting report to the front office so that they can use it for something useful....like extra TP or something to train a puppy with.

Jumbo

August-17th-2011, 09:32 PM

At first, I was just going to chide SocratesDC and tell him to up his game if he wants to post here, as we don't need any new guys joining the herd just to put out weak sauce like post #166, but then I saw #168, so don't waste time replying to him as he has already won a month long vacation and will be given a serious warning upon his return about how he needs to improve to remain a member.

darrelgreenie

August-21st-2011, 06:16 PM

Truth is they both have their pros and cons:
Pros:
Grossman: Can put up a ton of yardage, not afraid to throw downfield, has a good long ball, high release point, gets rid of the football, good command of the offense

Beck: Good mobility, fast release, makes smart decisions, strong arm (not in terms of distance, moreso velocity), good accuracy, solid tempo.

Cons:
Grossman: turns the ball over way too often, makes some really terrible decisions and is inconsistent.

Beck: Holds the ball too long, will take a ton of sacks, awkward release point.I agree with most of the above.

When looking at last years preseason I came away with the same feeling about Beck's throwing motion i.e. that he'll have ball batted down.
But, I notice a real difference in his release point.
He might have ball's batted down he might not.

Also I disagree that Grossman has higher release point and Rex is no stranger to having balls batted down.

I think it remains to be seen wether or nor Beck will hold the ball too long or will take a ton of sacks; both are linked to decision making and like you've said Beck appears to be smart decision maker.
From his play in the Colts game at the very least I think its safe to say that Beck is an efficiency focused decision maker.

texasthunder

August-21st-2011, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by KDawg
Truth is they both have their pros and cons:
Pros:
Grossman: Can put up a ton of yardage, not afraid to throw downfield, has a good long ball, high release point, gets rid of the football, good command of the offense

Beck: Good mobility, fast release, makes smart decisions, strong arm (not in terms of distance, moreso velocity), good accuracy, solid tempo.

Cons:
Grossman: turns the ball over way too often, makes some really terrible decisions and is inconsistent.

Beck: Holds the ball too long, will take a ton of sacks, awkward release point.

Good report Kdawg.
The part about the command of the offense is what stands out to me.
Grossman seems to make the whole offense look like its running smoother.
He did it last year in relief of McNabb, against the Steelers and even with mostly second and third team players in the Indy game.
Just wish he would dial back on the interceptions.

Boss_Hogg

August-22nd-2011, 12:13 PM

Beck looks to be the better athlete, but IMO Grossman is the better QB.

Still too early to tell.

darrelgreenie

August-22nd-2011, 08:17 PM

Beck looks to be the better athlete, but IMO Grossman is the better QB.

Still too early to tell.If Beck is the better athlete then what makes Rex the better QB in your opinion?

Physical skillset isn't really time dependent their physical skillset is the same now as it will be if you look at it 2 weeks from now.

SWFLSkins

August-22nd-2011, 08:21 PM

If Beck is the better athlete then what makes Rex the better QB in your opinion?

Physical skillset isn't really time dependent their physical skillset is the same now as it will be if you look at it 2 weeks from now.

I get what he is saying, Beck moves better, Grossman throws better. The next two weeks will certainly be interesting.

darrelgreenie

August-24th-2011, 06:37 PM

Since others are doing it, I’ll offer my scouting expertise on John Beck. I won’t speculate on the intangibles except to say that what I’ve heard about his intelligence and attitude is all good. With enough time in the scheme, he should not be limited by the intangibles.

John Beck reminds me of Jay Cutler, Tony Romo and Brett Favre in the sense that he changes arm angles on the fly. I take this as one sign of an exceptional athlete at the QB position. The various arm angles and release points are produced by athletes who can deliver a quick release on the move. When being chased, they don’t have to stop to get their feet in an ideal position before throwing.

If we were talking Baseball pitchers, Beck would be called a “short-armer:” There’s lots of bicep and wrist involved in his throwing mechanics. The main advantages: quick release, great accuracy, great zip on most throws. The main disadvantages: A lower release point and the need to change arm angles to produce the touch throws. Judging from his college videos, Beck does this, but there’s not enough video to judge how well he does it.

Since we have an O-line that is still suspect in pass protection, Beck’s mobility allows more stretch-rollouts. Against the Colts, I got the feeling that Kyle could have called the stretch or the stretch-roll on every play and the Colts would have been helpless to defend it. I am confident that John Beck will start the opener against the Giants for this reason alone. He's more of a weapon than Rex in the Shanahan scheme's signature play.

A grade A ball control game can beat anybody. John Beck and his short-to- medium range accuracy, along with an improving run game, has the potential to give us that in this scheme.

I had a similar view:

John Beck reminds me a lot of Colt McCoy.
McCoy is a better runner/playmaker and uses an over the top throwing motion more often, but I think the similarities from a height/weight and playing style stand point are there.
But have quick feet and are nimble, both can throwing from different arm angles.
Both have stronger arms then they're given credit for (Beck might actually have the stronger arm of the 2).
Both are good timing and anticipation passers.

Quick thoughts on Beck from the Jets game:
o quick, light feet; has very smooth footwork in his drop backs and can set-up and get to a throwing position quickly
o can move a little bit
o has a quick throwing motion and a compact delivery but he has 3/4/side armish throwing motion (which make his release shorter which makes him throw shorter then his height)

Throws I like:

@ 1:36 only a 5-6 yard hitch Roydell Williams vs Cromartie; accurate throw into a tight window but what I liked most was the velocity, the ball got there in a hurry. It shoes he can throw hard when he needs too.

@ 2:18 another velocity throw-from the about the 25 yard line to the goaline on a rope;
this throw is all about arm strength

And yes I'm completely and totally bored without football and feeling nervous for the 1st time about wether a 16 games season will happen.
My main concerns are:

o throwing height
o inconsistent mechanics/variety of throwing platforms
o velocity to make the stick throws

He's only 6'2 and, unlike Drew Brees, Beck has a low release point

One reason why Brees is successful despite being 6' is he has a classic over the shoulder throwing motion with a high release point that makes him throw taller then his height Beck is the opposite.
Low release point, makes him shorter.
Will it be an issue? Who knows?

He's kinda like Romo and McCoy that he can throw/release the ball from different angles and from different platforms.

But, it makes his mechanics seem inconsistent, will the ball always go where he wants?

Velocity, I see hints of it but I want to see more.

---------- Post added August-24th-2011 at 08:19 PM ----------

Trying to duplicate Brees’ success is why Beck started working out with the former NFL MVP and Super Bowl champion in the offseason three years ago, prompted by former Miami coach Cam Cameron. Aaron Rodgers also works out with them.

Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/nfl/2011/04/beck-works-brees-dreams-big#ixzz1VzkOpX6C

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkRIpmD16mM
Beck'sthrowing angle was a previous concern for me and maybe I'm imagining it.
But I noticed from the video above that it appears to my eye that Beck is throwing less sidearmy this year.

ConnSKINS26

August-24th-2011, 08:19 PM

I always loved Brees' demonstration of one of his crazy mental exercises, where he mentally "remembers" where things are along a very long hallway, staring at everything for 10-15 seconds. Then he walks down the hall carefully, with his eyes closed, measuring his steps carefully in his head, and touches each object exactly as he comes to them along the wall, like "fire extinguisher" 10 feet away, "doorway" 15 feet away, "doorway" 25 feet down the hallway.

Helps him remember where receivers are supposed to be on the field without actually seeing them. Don't remember where I read/saw that, but I thought it was very cool and impressive. Beck working with him can only be a good thing.

darrelgreenie

August-24th-2011, 08:36 PM