PDA

View Full Version : George Will - Tea Party would defeat Obama by supporting McConnell plan on debt



Buford
July-23rd-2011, 11:27 AM
Tea Party would defeat Obama by supporting McConnell plan on debt (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/sustaining-the-unsustainable/2011/07/21/gIQAI6mtRI_story.html)



Tea Party would defeat Obama by supporting McConnell plan on debt

By George F. Will (http://www.washingtonpost.com/george-f-will/2011/02/24/ABVZKXN_page.html), Published: July 21

The Tea Party, the most welcome political development since the Goldwater insurgency in 1964, lacks only the patience necessary when America lacks the consensus required to propel fundamental change through our constitutional system of checks and balances. If Washington’s trajectory could be turned as quickly as Tea Partyers wish — while conservatives control only one-half of one of the two political branches — their movement would not be as necessary as it is. Fortunately, not much patience is required.
The Goldwater impulse took 16 years to reach fruition in the election of Ronald Reagan. The Tea Party can succeed in 16 months by helping elect a president who will not veto necessary reforms. To achieve that, however, Tea Partyers must not help the incumbent achieve his objectives in the debt-ceiling dispute.
One of those is to strike a splashy bargain involving big — but hypothetical and nonbinding — numbers. This would enable President Obama to run away from his record and run as a debt-reducing centrist. Another Obama objective is tax increases that shatter Republican unity and dampen the Tea Party’s election-turning intensity. Because he probably can achieve neither, he might want market chaos in coming days so Republicans henceforth can be cast as complicit in the wretched recovery that is his administration’s ugly signature.
Mitch McConnell’s proposal (http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/debt-talks-show-growing-gap-between-white-house-gop/2011/07/12/gIQAbKuiAI_story.html) would require Obama to make three requests for additional debt-ceiling increases. Each time he would be required to recommend commensurate spending reductions. Concerning them, Congress would, of course, retain its constitutional power to do what it wishes.
Obama could muster sufficient Democratic votes (one-third plus one, in one house) to sustain his veto of Congress’s disapproval of his requests. But this would not enhance presidential power. Rather, McConnell’s proposal would put a harness on the president, tightly confining him within a one-time process.
Congressional primacy would be further enhanced by McConnell’s proposed special congressional committee. It would not be another commission; it would have no administration members or other outsiders. Its proposals would be unamendable, and would be voted on this year.
Thanks largely to the Tea Party, today, more than at any time since Reagan’s arrival 30 years ago, Washington debate is conducted in conservatism’s vocabulary of government retrenchment. The debt-ceiling vote, an action-forcing mechanism of limited utility, has at least demonstrated that Obama is, strictly speaking, unbelievable.
Five months ago he submitted a budget (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/14/AR2011021400906.html) that would have accelerated indebtedness, and that the Democratic-controlled Senate rejected in May (http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/163347-senate-votes-unanimously-against-obama-budget), 97 to 0. Just three months ago he was demanding a “clean” increase in the debt ceiling, containing nothing to slow the spending carousel. Now he calls for “the largest possible” debt-reduction deal. Today, he says (http://projects.washingtonpost.com/obama-speeches/speech/736/), “If you look at the numbers, then Medicare in particular will run out of money and we will not be able to sustain that program no matter how much taxes go up.” Last year he advertised Obamacare as a sufficient reform of health care. He denounces Republicans as uncompromising regarding tax increases but vows “I will not accept” a deal that does not increase taxes.
Obama vaguely promises (http://m.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/07/05/president-obama-addresses-status-deficit-negotiations-0) to “look at” savings from entitlements because “we need to find trillions in savings over the next decade.” But when McConnell learned that negotiations chaired by Vice President Biden had identified a risible $2 billion (http://www.nationaljournal.com/congress/congressional-gop-leaders-slowly-convincing-newer-members-of-importance-of-raising-debt-ceiling-20110716) in 2012 discretionary spending cuts — a sum equal to a rounding error on the GM bailout — McConnell concluded that Obama’s frugality pantomime required a response that will define the 2012 election choice.
Obama’s rhetorical floundering is the sound of a bewildered politician trying to be heard over the long, withdrawing roar of ebbing faith in a failing model of governance. From Greece to California, with manifestations in Italy, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Illinois and elsewhere, this model is collapsing. Entangled economic and demographic forces are refuting the practice of ever-bigger government financed by an ever-smaller tax base and by imposing huge costs on voiceless future generations.
Richard Miniter, a Forbes columnist (http://blogs.forbes.com/richardminiter/2011/07/18/why-the-democratic-party-is-doomed/), is right: “Obama is not the new FDR, but the new Gorbachev.” Beneath the tattered, fading banner of reactionary liberalism, Obama struggles to sustain a doomed system. Democrats’ dependency agenda — swelling the ranks of government employees, multiplying government-subsidized industries, enveloping ever-more individuals in the entitlement culture — is buckling under an intractable contradiction: It is incompatible with economic growth sufficient to create enough wealth to feed the multiplying tax eaters.
Events are validating the Tea Partyers’ arguments. Time is on their side — but not on America’s, unless the impediment to reform is removed in 16 months.
georgewill@washpost.com

McD5
July-23rd-2011, 11:29 AM
I feel badly for Obama. It's painfully obvious that he's in way over his head, and that he wasn't up for the job of President. Great campaigner, but worthless as a President.

And now all the sharks are starting to swim around him.

Larry
July-23rd-2011, 11:33 AM
Did News Corp hack George Will's cell phone? Before this piece, I regarded him as possibly the only voice on the Republican side that actually possessed both a brain and a grasp pf reality. But this thing reads like a Fox News litany of untrue political sloganeering.

twa
July-23rd-2011, 02:08 PM
I like it.,especially Minter

AsburySkinsFan
July-23rd-2011, 06:09 PM
Anyone who supports McConnell's plan hates America, and does not want what is best for America.

mardi gras skin
July-23rd-2011, 06:10 PM
Anyone who supports McConnell's plan hates America, and does not want what is best for America.

:ols:

My faither-in-law says the same thing about Obama. I think you're both a little insane. ;)

AsburySkinsFan
July-23rd-2011, 06:18 PM
:ols:

My faither-in-law says the same thing about Obama. I think you're both a little insane. ;)

Seriously, the McConnell plan is to shirk responsibility off onto the President in order to dodge getting blamed for the inevitable raising of the debt ceiling, he's a coward and a spineless hack who is more interested in looking good in the next election cycle than he is interested in doing what's best for the country. Funny, when McConnell and any other elected official gets sworn in they don't swear to serve their party above the interests and needs of the nation...yet for some reason we applaud them when they do just that. How dare they wear the stars and stripes, they ought to switch the flag lapel pins for Elephants and Asses that's where their true loyalties lie.

Personally, I think Obama should just shut the whole Federal government down if Congress fails to do its job....and oh yes it is the GOP controlled Congress' job to raise the debt ceiling.

Shut it down Mr. President. Don't take fall for their trojan horse!

HailGreen28
July-23rd-2011, 06:27 PM
Seriously, the McConnell plan is to shirk responsibility off onto the President in order to dodge getting blamed for the inevitable raising of the debt ceiling, he's a coward and a spineless hack who is more interested in looking good in the next election cycle than he is interested in doing what's best for the country. Funny, when McConnell and any other elected official gets sworn in they don't swear to serve their party above the interests and needs of the nation...yet for some reason we applaud them when they do just that. How dare they wear the stars and stripes, they ought to switch the flag lapel pins for Elephants and Asses that's where their true loyalties lie.

Personally, I think Obama should just shut the whole Federal government down if Congress fails to do its job....and oh yes it is the GOP controlled Congress' job to raise the debt ceiling.

Shut it down Mr. President. Don't take fall for their trojan horse!So to avoid blame on raising the debt ceiling, Obama should shut the government down? :doh:

Who would be hurting America by playing politics, then?

Both sides should put their cards on the table. The Republicans should pass their own measure, regardless of what Obama wants. Obama should veto or approve it, regardless of what the Republicans want. And let the voters decide where blame lies.

twa
July-23rd-2011, 07:45 PM
GOP controls Congress?...damn I missed that....it happen while I was napping? :silly:

Fred Jones
July-23rd-2011, 08:05 PM
Of course Obama is not the answer. Knew that before he was elected. In fact, the previous President was not the answer either.

The problem with the Tea Party is they are wrong. The reason they are wrong, they are like all the rest.

Let's start by taking away their benefits. Or, more specifically, cut their benefits by ensuring their taxes are not raised. I mean, stop right now. Reduce their social security payments, medicare or medicaid payments or any type of disability payments. I sure hope they are not getting any state or local money either. They want to cut all of that so take it away. That way the Government can reduce spending and not have to raise taxes.

Let's see what happens.

And, stop pork spending. If you can't afford it, don't ask the Federal Government to pay for it. So, all those big projects in all the states need to be supported by state and local money. Stop taking my tax dollars to build bridges in Alaska or anywhere else. This includes all the projects tea party candidates want to get passed.

mardi gras skin
July-23rd-2011, 08:07 PM
McConnell must be the most powerful Senate minority leader of all time. What's the majority leader up to? Has he stepped up with some kind of plan?

RedskinsFan44
July-23rd-2011, 08:16 PM
So to avoid blame on raising the debt ceiling, Obama should shut the government down? :doh:

Who would be hurting America by playing politics, then?

Both sides should put their cards on the table. The Republicans should pass their own measure, regardless of what Obama wants. Obama should veto or approve it, regardless of what the Republicans want. And let the voters decide where blame lies.

The thing is, the Democrats control the Senate, so if the Republicans keep passing proposals that are unacceptable to Democrats they are wasting precious time. That's where the rhetoric of "Obama doesn't have a plan on the table comes in". He is trying to broker an agreement on something that can pass before pushing it through. Cut, Cap, and Balance is political cover, not a realistic attempt to reach a deal. Neither side holds all the cards, we need compromise. Republicans won't be able to blame Obama because a bill unacceptable to him won't make it to his desk. Actually I'm sure lots of people would blame him, but it won't be because of a veto.

---------- Post added July-23rd-2011 at 09:19 PM ----------


McConnell must be the most powerful Senate minority leader of all time. What's the majority leader up to? Has he stepped up with some kind of plan?

Actually I believe Reid was involved in that plan. Inexplicably, I would say, as it is terrible politically for the Dems, and particularly for Obama.

twa
July-23rd-2011, 08:33 PM
Let's start by taking away their benefits. Or, more specifically, cut their benefits by ensuring their taxes are not raised. I mean, stop right now. Reduce their social security payments, medicare or medicaid payments or any type of disability payments. I sure hope they are not getting any state or local money either. They want to cut all of that so take it away. That way the Government can reduce spending and not have to raise taxes.

Liberals

Isn't that what cut cap and balance does?...you are criticizing them for submitting a plan to do so

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/dems_tax_trouble_ujAy4mJMHh8NDqr7k9IctI

Every political movement has its rhetorical strengths and weaknesses. The right can wax poetic about liberty and freedom, the left about the nobility of the poor and downtrodden.

Nowhere do these differences come across more starkly than on the subject of taxation.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/dems_tax_trouble_ujAy4mJMHh8NDqr7k9IctI#ixzz1SyxiI 1eO

Wrong Direction
July-23rd-2011, 10:30 PM
So, Republicans in the house won't vote for a plan with tax increases. Democrats in the Senate, and apparently the President, won't support a plan unless it has tax increases. Therefore, Therefore, no plan with tax increases can pass and no plan without tax increases can pass.

Both sides seem equally entrenched and equally reasonable (or unreasonable) to me.

So McConnell comes forward and says, look, these are the facts. The House and Senate have polar opposite positions. All anyone agrees upon is 1) the debt limit needs to be raised and 2) we have irreconsilable differences. So, rather than actually default, we'll pass this bill that lets the president implement a plan and lets the people choose in 2012.

I actually think it's a damn good idea. Can anyone say that Washington hasn't tried to come to an agreement? The McConnell plan doesn't seem like the plan from a man who wants to drop his responsibility. He's clearly tried to make a deal. To me, it seems like the only plan on the table right now that recognizes that neither side wants to break with their principals. It might be the only plan that actually keeps us from defaulting.

We'll see.

mardi gras skin
July-24th-2011, 04:26 AM
Actually I believe Reid was involved in that plan. Inexplicably, I would say, as it is terrible politically for the Dems, and particularly for Obama.

How often do the Senate majority leader and minority leader craft a plan together and it become known as the minority leader's plan?

I don't understand Democrat leadership at all.

RedskinsFan44
July-24th-2011, 01:02 PM
How often do the Senate majority leader and minority leader craft a plan together and it become known as the minority leader's plan?

I don't understand Democrat leadership at all.

I think it is pretty apparent that the plan is McConnell's primarily. Perhaps Reid was trying to temper it, but having the President raise tha debt ceiling 3 times between now and the election, as would be necessary to avoid default, and allowing the Republicans to vote unanimously against it while still having the default avoided (it requires a 2/3 vote against to stop the Pres from raising it) would make for some good ads come November 2012.

It's all great for the Republicans to tout the fact that they have presented plans and the Democrats have not. But the fact is the Republican plans are political grandstanding. Voting on a plan that won't pass is wasting precious time. Neither side can get all it wants. So what we really need is the two sides to reach an agreement on a compromise and then pass it. I don't give the Republicans credit for presenting a plan that they knew would not pass.

Yusuf06
July-24th-2011, 01:21 PM
What's really funny to me is that pretty much everyone, me included thought both sides were just posturing and playing the brinksmanship card after which a deal would miraculously appear at the 11th hour. Turns out we were wrong--they are crazy after all.

Tulane Skins Fan
July-24th-2011, 01:48 PM
Liberals

Isn't that what cut cap and balance does?...you are criticizing them for submitting a plan to do so

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/dems_tax_trouble_ujAy4mJMHh8NDqr7k9IctI

Every political movement has its rhetorical strengths and weaknesses. The right can wax poetic about liberty and freedom, the left about the nobility of the poor and downtrodden.

Nowhere do these differences come across more starkly than on the subject of taxation.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/dems_tax_trouble_ujAy4mJMHh8NDqr7k9IctI#ixzz1SyxiI 1eO

Just in reference to that bill, a balanced budget amendment is about the worst idea since prohibition.

Hubbs
July-24th-2011, 01:56 PM
What's really funny to me is that pretty much everyone, me included thought both sides were just posturing and playing the brinksmanship card after which a deal would miraculously appear at the 11th hour. Turns out we were wrong--they are crazy after all.

Not yet. I'm still betting on them reaching a deal on July 31st/August1st/August 2nd and just overriding the rules that supposedly would make them wait to pass it. I'd give that about a 75% chance of happening, with a 12% chance of a deal before then, and a 13% chance of no deal by August 2nd.

Rdskns2000
July-24th-2011, 02:20 PM
Tea Party will only support their plan- the Ryan Plan and Cut,Cap, Balance, ****,****.Etc....


They will only acccept their ideological plan and nothing else.

mardi gras skin
July-24th-2011, 04:01 PM
What's really funny to me is that pretty much everyone, me included thought both sides were just posturing and playing the brinksmanship card after which a deal would miraculously appear at the 11th hour. Turns out we were wrong--they are crazy after all.

I never thought they'd have a deal done this quickly. They'll get it done August 1st or the day after the market totally loses confidence, whichever comes first.

Yusuf06
July-24th-2011, 05:09 PM
I never thought they'd have a deal done this quickly. They'll get it done August 1st or the day after the market totally loses confidence, whichever comes first.
Maybe we have differing views of what 11th hour means. :)

As for the OP, I can't believe that the Tea Bagger types won't see McConnell's proposal for the self serving political sham that it is. Sure they'll see Obama raising the debt ceiling but they'll also see McConnell and the R's facilitating of it as a sellout. Were I on their side I would anyway.

Hubbs
July-24th-2011, 05:12 PM
Maybe we have differing views of what 11th hour means. :)

As for the OP, I can't believe that the Tea Bagger types won't see McConnell's proposal for the self serving political sham that it is. Sure they'll see Obama raising the debt ceiling but they'll also see McConnell and the R's facilitating of it as a sellout. Were I on their side I would anyway.

Oh, trust me, a lot of them are. Most Tea Partiers are pissed about McConnell's plan. (That's why there's a good chance it won't get through the House.)

Larry
July-24th-2011, 05:13 PM
Maybe we have differing views of what 11th hour means. :)

As for the OP, I can't believe that the Tea Bagger types won't see McConnell's proposal for the self serving political sham that it is. Sure they'll see Obama raising the debt ceiling but they'll also see McConnell and the R's facilitating of it as a sellout. Were I on their side I would anyway.

I don't think so.

I think that, come election time, what they'll have in their heads are images and slogans of Obama raising the debt ceiling THREE TIMES, despite the fact that the Republican Party voted unanimously against every single one of them. This, to their "thinking" will prove that the Democrats are the party of big spending and deficits, and the GOP are the party of small government.

It's what they already think.