2012 Comprehensive NFL Draft Database

[Dukes and Skins]

Well ladies and gentlemen its that time again, after last years thread became the monstrosity that it was, we had to do it again :ols:

Again welcome everyone and I hope you all find this informative and discussion to be some of the best on ES

To start it off I'll ask like I did last year who are some of your top prospects that you are looking forward to watching next year?

For me its 2 guys

Robert Griffin III
Riley Reiff

EDIT: also on the front page I will be updating it with Player Profiles and such that people do. As for the mocks it'll be tough to keep up with those so I'll just stick to player profiles

D&S

[GWinSkins83]

Well ladies and gentlemen its that time again, after last years thread became the monstrosity that it was, we had to do it again :ols:

Again welcome everyone and I hope you all find this informative and discussion to be some of the best on ES

To start it off I'll ask like I did last year who are some of your top prospects that you are looking forward to watching next year?

For me its 2 guys

Robert Griffin III
Riley Reiff

D&S
I like RG3 but where do you think he will be picked. Riley Reiff is a LT right. What you thinking about moving us picking him and moving TWill over to RT?

[Dro89]

FINALLY



http://i.imgur.com/W2Y2O.gif

[Dukes and Skins]

I like RG3 but where do you think he will be picked. Riley Reiff is a LT right. What you thinking about moving us picking him and moving TWill over to RT?

Riley Reiff is either a RT or LT in the NFL. I think you could plug him in at either and he'd be a good player for a long time. As for RG3 he's the biggest wildcard this year in terms of QB's. Right now he's probably a solid 2nd round pick, but if he puts up the year many think he can, then he'll be a 1st round pick in the mid to late range

[Dro89]

Dont'a Hightower (2nd Round Grade right now)
Landry Jones (Recently Seen a mock with us landing him around the 10 spot)
Robert Griffen III (my dvr will be set for this kid)

[GWinSkins83]

I like RG3 but where do you think he will be picked. Riley Reiff is a LT right. What you thinking about moving us picking him and moving TWill over to RT?

Janorios Jenkins- CB
Shov-ILB,OLB
Laundry Jones- QB
Fuller- WR
Cody Glenn- OC/OG
Mike Brewster-OC

---------- Post added August-23rd-2011 at 10:45 AM ----------


FINALLY



http://i.imgur.com/W2Y2O.gif
:ols::ols::ols::ols::ols::ols::ols: To funny.

[Dukes and Skins]

Janorios Jenkins- CB
Shov-ILB,OLB
Laundry Jones- QB
Fuller- WR
Cody Glenn- OC/OG
Mike Brewster-OC

Great name you bring up with Janoris Jenkins, the move to the D-1AA(yes I know its FCS still 1-AA to me) will be a chance for him to show out and have a big year and put himself in a good light with scouts. Yes he has character concerns, but if he can keep in the good for a full year, then someone will want to take him in the 1st 3 rounds. Seen mocks with him in the 3rd because of the concerns, but I see him settling in the 2nd round but he's for sure a 1st round talent

[Dro89]

intresting thing about that mock i seen.. they had us taking.. Landry in the first, Sanu from Rutgers as our 2nd round pick (1 pick before Broyles goes)

If it comes down to that would you guys see an advantage if we draft Jones AND Brolyes? For the record i dont think we pass up defensive talent in the 2nd round next year.. there is just so much.

[Dukes and Skins]

intresting thing about that mock i seen.. they had us taking.. Landry in the first, Sanu from Rutgers as our 2nd round pick (1 pick before Broyles goes)

If it comes down to that would you guys see an advantage if we draft Jones AND Brolyes? For the record i dont think we pass up defensive talent in the 2nd round next year.. there is just so much.


I have a hard time taking another WR though Dro. Personally if we're picking say 10 right now and we get Jones, I'm looking an ILB in Round 2

[Dro89]

I have a hard time taking another WR though Dro. Personally if we're picking say 10 right now and we get Jones, I'm looking an ILB in Round 2

sucks that barring horrible seasons, players like Burfict and Te'o will be long gone.. Hightower would be my fall back.


They were merely pointing out the age of Moss.. We could still find a WR in the 3rd round if need be..


Dwight Jones, WR, North Carolina
Height: 6-4. Weight: 215.
Projected 40 Time: 4.55.
Projected Round (2012): 2-3.

and

Greg Childs, WR, Arkansas
Height: 6-3. Weight: 217.
Projected 40 Time: 4.54.
Projected Round (2012): 2-3.

to guys i would watch for 1 could fall into the 3rd round..

[Dukes and Skins]

sucks that barring horrible seasons, players like Burfict and Te'o will be long gone.. Hightower would be my fall back.

Hightower would be that guy as well, been seeing Luke Kuechly available in the 2nd round and he'd be a steal no doubt

They were merely pointing out the age of Moss..

[DC9]

I would love to get the following, but we'd probably only have a shot at one or two of them.

I would prioritize this draft with QB, RT, C, ILB, a red zone weapon, and then line depth. This is going to be another deep draft...and that 4th round pick we are getting from the Raiders will really pay dividens when we are talking about establishing depth. With our picks, we'll also be able to move around a bit.

Matt Barkley, QB, USC (dead ringer for the bootleg system)
Nate Potter, T, Boise State (he should be there in the second, runs well and blocks well.)
Manti Te'o, 3-4 ILB, Notre Dame (he'll likely be a first round pick, but this kid is a tackling machine and an absolute beast)
Peter Konz, C, Wisconsin (like this guy's size/speed, he should be there in the third as of now).

[unloadvegas]

Co-sign on the Barkley idea. We won't draft high enough for Luck, but Barkley is attainable and in my opinion better than the QBs in the 2011 draft anyway.

[Dro89]

whew gunna be tough for him to get out the first round.. or even to the mid 2nd unless he has a less than stellar season and teams need something more than a LB.. id see someone like Detriot taking him in the 2nd whether it be trading up or them simply being in front of us.

[shemp nixon]

If what LL56 said the other day is correct, we will be looking for our QB of the future in this draft...BTW, you guys did a great job in the other thread, looking forward to this one.

[Dukes and Skins]

Co-sign on the Barkley idea. We won't draft high enough for Luck, but Barkley is attainable and in my opinion better than the QBs in the 2011 draft anyway.

I'd agree on that right now I'd put it as Luck Barkley Jones as the top 3 but also I could very well see Jones jump Barkley this year.

[RonArtest15]

Anquan Boldin lite....aka, Mohamed Sanu.

Keep an eye on him. He plays on a bad Rutgers team and had a down year as a Soph, but he's got some SERIOUS talent. Very versatile. I'm pretty sure he's as good as gone after this season. I've seen him projected anywhere between late in round 1 - round 3.

[DC9]

Anquan Boldin lite....aka, Mohamed Sanu.

Keep an eye on him. He plays on a bad Rutgers team and had a down year as a Soph, but he's got some SERIOUS talent. Very versatile. I'm pretty sure he's as good as gone after this season. I've seen him projected anywhere between late in round 1 - round 3.

If Michael Floyd is there when we pick in the 2nd round, I am taking him all day. He'll spend his first month in alcohol rehab, though.

[Dro89]

If what LL56 said the other day is correct, we will be looking for our QB of the future in this draft...BTW, you guys did a great job in the other thread, looking forward to this one.

^^^ does anyone have a link to this statement i missed it.

[ATLredskin]

Draft Blogs
http://www.mockingthedraft.com/
http://www.draftdaddy.com/blog/nfldraft.htm
http://rob-rang.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/view/13682485

[Dro89]

Chris Rainey, WR/RB/KR/PR, Florida
Height: 5-9. Weight: 178.
Projected 40 Time: 4.33.
Projected Round (2012): 4-6.


wouldn't mind this guy as a late round scat back all purpose guy.

[RonArtest15]

If Michael Floyd is there when we pick in the 2nd round, I am taking him all day. He'll spend his first month in alcohol rehab, though.


Oh absolutely....he's JUST like Vincent Jackson...all the way down to the DUIs LOL.

[Dukes and Skins]

Chris Rainey, WR/RB/KR/PR, Florida
Height: 5-9. Weight: 178.
Projected 40 Time: 4.33.
Projected Round (2012): 4-6.


wouldn't mind this guy as a late round scat back all purpose guy.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5570905

He's got some legal stuff as well man. Personally I think we just roll with our RB's for a while

[Goingforburgundy]

OMG FINALLY!!!!

What I was thinking to add to this was positions of need by what round we would probably need to draft.

I split first round into 2 seperate rounds.
1st Round Top 16: QB MLB
1st Round Bottom 16: QB MLB CB G
2nd Round: QB MLB CB G C NT
3rd Round: G C RT NT RLDE
4th Round: RT LT OLB FS
5th-7th Round: QB FS Best available

[ATLredskin]

-my guys are Luck and Kelechi Osemele
-I like both Jones and Barkley, but Jones is a bit injury prone and Barkley is all hype(USC QB and high HS rating)

[GWinSkins83]

Great name you bring up with Janoris Jenkins, the move to the D-1AA(yes I know its FCS still 1-AA to me) will be a chance for him to show out and have a big year and put himself in a good light with scouts. Yes he has character concerns, but if he can keep in the good for a full year, then someone will want to take him in the 1st 3 rounds. Seen mocks with him in the 3rd because of the concerns, but I see him settling in the 2nd round but he's for sure a 1st round talent
Yeah he might be the best CB I seen out of Cliff Harris, the CB out of UN, Ryan Harris too. Im going to check film on Gilmore, Minnefield, and other top CB. But I doubt any shutdown WR he did last year. I mean dude handled Green, Jones, Jeffery, and any another wr he faced. Can be a complete steal in the second. But if you get him in the third man that just is crazy it would be like 2 dozen of GMs that should be fired. But I wish to the Football Gods we could get him in the third.

[RonArtest15]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5570905

He's got some legal stuff as well man. Personally I think we just roll with our RB's for a while


What about a late-round flyer on Jeff Demps (assuming he sticks w. football)? Kid can FLY. Depending on what happens w. Brandon Banks, Demps could be nice to watch in TC as competition to some of our Special Teamers....

[GWinSkins83]

sucks that barring horrible seasons, players like Burfict and Te'o will be long gone.. Hightower would be my fall back.


They were merely pointing out the age of Moss.. We could still find a WR in the 3rd round if need be..


Dwight Jones, WR, North Carolina
Height: 6-4. Weight: 215.
Projected 40 Time: 4.55.
Projected Round (2012): 2-3.

and

Greg Childs, WR, Arkansas
Height: 6-3. Weight: 217.
Projected 40 Time: 4.54.
Projected Round (2012): 2-3.

to guys i would watch for 1 could fall into the 3rd round..
I also seen one with Cruner falling to 4th since he not playing this year or going to be late to the field.

[Dukes and Skins]

What about a late-round flyer on Jeff Demps (assuming he sticks w. football)? Kid can FLY. Depending on what happens w. Brandon Banks, Demps could be nice to watch in TC as competition to some of our Special Teamers....

I mean I wouldn't mind taking a late 7th on a speed guy, but also at the same time he'll have to prove to be better than the 4 guys right now as a RB which I dont see happening.

---------- Post added August-23rd-2011 at 11:30 AM ----------


I also seen one with Cruner falling to 4th since he not playing this year or going to be late to the field.

You mean Juron Criner right? yeah been seeing him slipping down in a lot of mocks, will be interesting to see where he ends up

[jsharrin55]

I'm excited to see what we can do with a full slate of draft picks!!! (I know we gave up a pick for Hightower, but I doubt it'll be higher than the JC pick...) Plus, when is the last time we had our first 3 picks (edit: 2008 although we traded back).

How we play and when we draft will change a lot of this talk (hence another huge thread) but very excited to see how this plays out.

What round does Riley Reiff project at this point? With J.Brown on a 5 year deal, I think we wait another year or 2 for a high round tackle, but a 3/4th might make sense for a solid backup.

[GWinSkins83]

I mean I wouldn't mind taking a late 7th on a speed guy, but also at the same time he'll have to prove to be better than the 4 guys right now as a RB which I dont see happening.

---------- Post added August-23rd-2011 at 11:30 AM ----------



You mean Juron Criner right? yeah been seeing him slipping down in a lot of mocks, will be interesting to see where he ends up
Yeah him he is the perfect big WCO WR. He's big, fast, burst, and have good hands, and quick to turn up field. He's a beast and that could be a complete steal too if he falls down to the 4th. I also notice theres alot of good Oline in this draft that can be got in the 3rd and 4th rounds too. I think this draft is alot deeper than last year by far. DT, DE, OT, OG, OC, WR, CB, RB, ILB, and most importantly QB. Im excited we have more picks coming into this draft than last year and we drafted 12 players.

[Dukes and Skins]

I'm excited to see what we can do with a full slate of draft picks!!! (I know we gave up a pick for Hightower, but I doubt it'll be higher than the JC pick...) Plus, when is the last time we had our first 3 picks (edit: 2008 although we traded back).

How we play and when we draft will change a lot of this talk (hence another huge thread) but very excited to see how this plays out.

What round does Riley Reiff project at this point? With J.Brown on a 5 year deal, I think we wait another year or 2 for a high round tackle, but a 3/4th might make sense for a solid backup.

Riley Reiff has been all over the place some have him in the mid 1st others have him in the solid 2nd round range.

One guy I will bring up that was discussed earlier was Nate Potter as a mid round pick who ends up becoming a LG for us and Kory then slides over to C. That could be an ideal scenario

[Chicken Fried]

My top guy is Matt Barkley. I actually like him better as a pro than Luck, I think mainly because Luck will probably never be able to live up to his hype. I also love Manti Teo, and we could really use a big ILB presence besides London.

[Dukes and Skins]

My top guy is Matt Barkley. I actually like him better as a pro than Luck, I think mainly because Luck will probably never be able to live up to his hype. I also love Manti Teo, and we could really use a big ILB presence besides London.

Love Te'o but I see him ending up being taken in the 1st round, but if he makes it to round 2 I'm running to the podium as fast as I can and taking him

[SkinInsite]

Upshaw or Hightower in the 2nd would be good.

[skinsfan190]

Ah finally my fav thread is back and better than ever. I have a ton of guys i'm gonna be watching real closely

Andrew Luck
Matt Barkley
Landry Jones
Nick Foles-I'm gonna try to forget how he stunk up the 2nd half of last year after he got hurt. He's needs to step it up big time this year. Plus hopefully they allow him to throw over 20 yards. :)

All the recievers-(Not a big need, but the talent is nasty this year) Blackmon, Fuller, Floyd, Jeffery, Broyles, Sanu, Childs

Vontaze Burfict
Manti Te'o

[GWinSkins83]

Love Te'o but I see him ending up being taken in the 1st round, but if he makes it to round 2 I'm running to the podium as fast as I can and taking him

[The Tris]

I think the most productive thing we could do to start out is identify what positions are in need of immediate upgrade and then depth.

Obviously, this is subject to change, but here are positions I think we should be scouting this year:

QB, WR, G/C, RT

DE, NT, ILB, CB

[Hitman21ST]

Primary areas of focus will be CB and ILB for me, with interior O line secondary and QB/WR tertiary (that's third for you non-eloquent peeps ;) )

[DC9]

-my guys are Luck and Kelechi Osemele
-I like both Jones and Barkley, but Jones is a bit injury prone and Barkley is all hype(USC QB and high HS rating)

Come on ATL, you don't want a nice looking blonde kid throwing the ball? He excells at throwing on the run. That's what the zbs and bootlegs are all about. He's a little shorter than your prototypical passers these days, but he carries a lot of weight and has a good arm/mobility.

Luck won't be there...and to be honest, if he was, I would probably trade out of that spot and get three years worth of first round picks...call me crazy.

[Dukes and Skins]

I think the most productive thing we could do to start out is identify what positions are in need of immediate upgrade and then depth.

Obviously, this is subject to change, but here are positions I think we should be scouting this year:

QB, WR, G/C, RT

DE, NT, ILB, CB

I would pretty much agree with that list Tris can't really think of anything else although I would say that NT is probably on the low for needs IMO

[GWinSkins83]

Come on ATL, you don't want a nice looking blonde kid throwing the ball? He excells at throwing on the run. That's what the zbs and bootlegs are all about. He's a little shorter than your prototypical passers these days, but he carries a lot of weight and has a good arm/mobility.

Luck won't be there...and to be honest, if he was, I would probably trade out of that spot and get three years worth of first round picks...call me crazy.
Thats not crazy that would be the smartest thing a team like us could do. For atleast three straight year we could get 2 or 3 starters in a draft is smart. Out of one of them you could get the QB of the future to. Luck would have to be better than 5 picks out together. I mean he's Great but is that Great?

[ATLredskin]

I think the most productive thing we could do to start out is identify what positions are in need of immediate upgrade and then depth.

Obviously, this is subject to change, but here are positions I think we should be scouting this year:

QB, WR, G/C, RT

DE, NT, ILB, CB

-Bowen and Jenkins is the future at DE with Carriker being a possibility as well
-they are kinda already sold on Cofield being our NT
-Riley is the future at ILB...we are not going to address that position in 2012, because even if Fletcher calls it quits then we are going to move Rocky up 1 and Riley will be next to him

[GWinSkins83]

-Bowen and Jenkins is the future at DE with Carriker being a possibility as well
-they are kinda already sold on Cofield being our NT
-Riley is the future at ILB...we are not going to address that position in 2012, because even if Fletcher calls it quits then we are going to move Rocky up 1 and Riley will be next to him

I dont know about Rocky maybe Fox but after this year if Rocky is adverage his gone. I think ILB will get picked next year.

[stevemcqueen1]

I would love to take advantage of what looks like a truly special linebacker class this year/next.

Either Manti Teo and Luke Kuechly would be awesome in the Burgundy and Gold. Perfect heirs to London and the heart of what would have to be one of the best groups of linebackers in the NFL.

We'd get to come up with awesome nicknames for the unit.

[skinsfan190]

I dont know about Rocky maybe Fox but after this year if Rocky is adverage his gone. I think ILB will get picked next year.
Agreed. rocky is on a 1 year deal and Riley has proved nothing. ILB is a big need after this season imo.

[GibbsFactor]

Any quarterbacks out there?

:silly:

[StillUnknown]

Looking forward to reading the info that will be dropped in this thread over the coming months.

[GWinSkins83]

Any quarterbacks out there?

:silly:

Landry Jones, Matt Barkley, RG3, Kirk Cousins, Ryan Lindley, Ryan Tannellile.

[unloadvegas]

So I saw a mock draft where we traded up with Carolina to draft Andrew Luck, despite the fact that we were picking later in the first round. Even if we go 8-8 or 9-7, do you guys think we possibly trade up to get this guy? I'm not necessarily for it, but given his reputation I suppose I can see that happening...

[stevemcqueen1]

I think the most productive thing we could do to start out is identify what positions are in need of immediate upgrade and then depth.

Obviously, this is subject to change, but here are positions I think we should be scouting this year:

QB, WR, G/C, RT

DE, NT, ILB, CB

We'll scout them all at some point but I doubt we'll pay much attention to anything aside from the quarterbacks. Symptom of fielding an improving team?

Defensive linemen don't really seem like much of a need when you've probably got 5 out of 7 positions pretty well spoken for by guys under the age of 27. OLB is also clearly not an area of need.

I personally don't think WR is a need. I didn't think it was much of a need going into this draft and we drafted three more and traded for another (among other FA signings). I doubt we'll pay much attention to the half backs either but that's always the case with Shanahan.

I think the areas of greatest long term need are ILB, RT, FS, and CB and I wouldn't mind seeing us upgrade our guards.

Lots of us think QB is a need and most of us would love to see us draft a potential first rounder like Matt Barkley. I personally don't think that's going to happen because I think we're pretty commited to John Beck.

Here's an early mock: I'd love to see us have a draft where we take a STUD ILB like Manti Teo in the first, a really nice corner like Cliff Harris in the second, and a whole set of talented developmental offensive linemen like Nate Potter, Matt Reynolds, William Vlachos, Mike Brewster, Stephen Good, or Ryan Miller with our three picks in the third and fourth rounds.

I'd especially like to snap up Brewster, Good, or Miller in that range plus at least one developmental right tackle to start for when JB is done.

[That Redskins Fan]

I cannot wait for the cfb eason to begin

I am looking at barkley jones and that Kid tanehill from a nd m

On defense I am going to be looking at Mlb hard and of course the RG3 from baylor- he maybe the a very raw Mike Vick

[sean_e_b]

Thanks for the new thread, Dukes and Skins. I'll try to add some insight over the course of the coming season as an extra evaluator.

I'll be following the BIG 10 mostly, but I'll check out conference games from the SEC, ACC, and PAC 12 whenever I get the chance.

[Dro89]

QB - Head and shoulders the number 1 need IMO.
ILB - Fletcher is close to retiring even though i think he has a year or 2 left in him this is a need coming up very fast
OC - Monty is good but we need more
LG - Lich is ok but not enough we need a LG


i think we should spend our first 2 picks on QB/ILB and then try to obtain a few more 3rd/4th/5th round picks this year and load up on LG/Center/RT/WR/CB because we OK at the position and could take risks for potential steals.

[wilco_holland]

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn103/wilco_nieuwehorne/Zooi1-3.jpg

I really looking forward to this NCAA season

- Finally a team is going to run my 4-3 hybrid full time (Gatars, I hope).
- We have a chance to take a look at the most profiled QB since Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck.
- Maryland is going to be a ACC contender with O´Brien and hopefully end in a sportsbrand bowl (Under armour Vs Nike, Terps vs Ducks).
- The Ohio and Miami mess.
- And seeing the next NFL superstars.

Players I will keep an eye on:

- Mr 'to emotional' Burfict
- Mr 'hybrid' Upshaw
- 'The fallen florida star' Jenkins
- Mr. 'to big to be a corner' Kirkpatrick
- The next playmaking Virginia corner Hosley
- 'Dubbel first name' Armstong
- Mr. 'tackling beast' Tate
- Captain Kirk, the Leader of Sparta
and a lot of others

(damm I already missed like 4 pages :drooley:)

[Hitman21ST]

So I saw a mock draft where we traded up with Carolina to draft Andrew Luck, despite the fact that we were picking later in the first round. Even if we go 8-8 or 9-7, do you guys think we possibly trade up to get this guy? I'm not necessarily for it, but given his reputation I suppose I can see that happening...

If he's Mike and Kyle's guy, then there's a good chance we trade up. However, it all depends on where we are in the draft. If we're mid to low first round, it would take probably our first and second this year AND next year, at a minimum, to trade up to get him. If we're top 12 or so, it would probably take two firsts and then a second and third this year.

So it is possible, it just depends on HOW possible

[TheRookie]

I know the center thing got a lot of attention in the last thread, but do you guys have your eye on anybody at that position? I know it's probably a 3rd or 4th round consideration and I'm not writing off Montgomery by any means. I'm more concerned about our depth there. I guess after Montgomery,we've got Cook right now (and Lichtensteiger in a pinch). I haven't really heard anything good or bad about Cook, but my feeling is that this position is still a little unsettled.

Hopefully Montgomery works out, but for depth and perhaps the future, are there any guys coming out next year that stand out?

[theboomking]

I'd like to see us draft BPA that fits system, and let the pieces fall where they may. Ideally Beck looks like the second coming of Kurt Warner and we are freed from having to take a QB. I want to see us start drafting like the Ravens. It seems like every year, regardless of need, they are fortifying their OL and defensive front.

Honestly, one of the best things that could happen to us would be a Ngata or Raji like prospect falling into our laps. I would snap him up without blinking and just have him split time with Cofield, who could also play DE.

I also wouldn't mind seeing us take a stud interior OL, in the Pouncey mold. I don't think that is consistent Shannahan's philosophy however.

[GWinSkins83]

We'll scout them all at some point but I doubt we'll pay much attention to anything aside from the quarterbacks. Symptom of fielding an improving team?

Defensive linemen don't really seem like much of a need when you've probably got 5 out of 7 positions pretty well spoken for by guys under the age of 27. OLB is also clearly not an area of need.

I personally don't think WR is a need. I didn't think it was much of a need going into this draft and we drafted three more and traded for another (among other FA signings). I doubt we'll pay much attention to the half backs either but that's always the case with Shanahan.

I think the areas of greatest long term need are ILB, RT, FS, and CB and I wouldn't mind seeing us upgrade our guards.

Lots of us think QB is a need and most of us would love to see us draft a potential first rounder like Matt Barkley. I personally don't think that's going to happen because I think we're pretty commited to John Beck.

Here's an early mock: I'd love to see us have a draft where we take a STUD ILB like Manti Teo in the first, a really nice corner like Cliff Harris in the second, and a whole set of talented developmental offensive linemen like Nate Potter, Matt Reynolds, William Vlachos, Mike Brewster, Stephen Good, or Ryan Miller with our three picks in the third and fourth rounds.

I'd especially like to snap up Brewster, Good, or Miller in that range plus at least one developmental right tackle to start for when JB is done.I dont like cliff harris to much he plays like DHall. He takes to many chances. I rather have Janorios Jenkins his a true shutdown corner. We got a developmental RT Willie Smith. Te'o I would like to get if we are playoff team or have a winning record. But I we picking in the teens go head and get Barkley or Jones.

[shuler74]

Mike Shanahan has Beck rated higher than Luck :silly:

[stevemcqueen1]

I'd like to see us draft BPA that fits system, and let the pieces fall where they may. Ideally Beck looks like the second coming of Kurt Warner and we are freed from having to take a QB. I want to see us start drafting like the Ravens. It seems like every year, regardless of need, they are fortifying their OL and defensive front.

Honestly, one of the best things that could happen to us would be a Ngata or Raji like prospect falling into our laps. I would snap him up without blinking and just have him split time with Cofield, who could also play DE.

I also wouldn't mind seeing us take a stud interior OL, in the Pouncey mold. I don't think that is consistent Shannahan's philosophy however.

Boomking! It's been a while since I've read your posts, glad you're back!

I agree with your assessment of the roster situation. I don't think this FO is currently planning to take a QB high because they have faith in John Beck.

It'd be nice to have a dominant, penatrative defensive lineman fall to us but I also don't think it's a big need considering how good Stephen Bowen and Barry Cofield are. Jarvis Jenkins and Adam Carriker round out the top of our order pretty nicely and Anthony Bryant and Chris Neild can be serviceable backups. I think the rest of the depth chart is filled by Darion Scott and Rob Jackson (as a nickel end) so we actually look pretty good right now.

Keep an eye on Alameda Ta'amu from Washington though. He could be that type of player you're referring to.

I think you're right that Shanahan would probably never really consider taking a guard or center in the first round. But I like some of the names at those positions being talked about in the mid round range, where we have extra picks this year.

The position that has me most excited this year is ILB. A really dynamic ILB could put up impressive numbers here and really help us run this scheme. I think this might be the year to get one too considering how good this group of college juniors and seniors is. A guy like Travis Lewis might get pushed into the second or third round.

I also like some of the corners and safeties that might be available this year.

[jtyler42]

I'll start out by saying what I'm not really looking at: WR's, DL, RB's, TE's, or OLB's...I feel like this is the yr to grab our QB of the future, upgrade the ILB's, and spend more than one pick on OL...At QB I'm going to be watching Jones, Barkley, Tannehill, and RG3...At ILB I like Teo, Burrfict, Keuchly, Hightower, and Upshaw...Don't know any OL names lol, but this thread will cure that!

[Pedro]

To start it off I'll ask like I did last year who are some of your top prospects that you are looking forward to watching next year?

Kellen Moore :paranoid:

I know he's a dwarf and geekier than Beck, I just can't help it.

[GWinSkins83]

Boomking! It's been a while since I've read your posts, glad you're back!

I agree with your assessment of the roster situation. I don't think this FO is currently planning to take a QB high because they have faith in John Beck.

It'd be nice to have a dominant, penatrative defensive lineman fall to us but I also don't think it's a big need considering how good Stephen Bowen and Barry Cofield are. Jarvis Jenkins and Adam Carriker round out the top of our order pretty nicely and Anthony Bryant and Chris Neild can be serviceable backups. I think the rest of the depth chart is filled by Darion Scott and Rob Jackson (as a nickel end) so we actually look pretty good right now.

Keep an eye on Alameda Ta'amu from Washington though. He could be that type of player you're referring to.

I think you're right that Shanahan would probably never really consider taking a guard or center in the first round. But I like some of the names at those positions being talked about in the mid round range, where we have extra picks this year.

The position that has me most excited this year is ILB. A really dynamic ILB could put up impressive numbers here and really help us run this scheme. I think this might be the year to get one too considering how good this group of college juniors and seniors is. A guy like Travis Lewis might get pushed into the second or third round.

I also like some of the corners and safeties that might be available this year.

Travis lewis is not a ilb in a 3-4. Look for ilb that are atleast 245 right now

[Dukes and Skins]

Travis lewis is not a ilb in a 3-4. Look for ilb that are atleast 245 right now

A lot of us feel that Travis very well could be an ILB in the 3-4 scheme. He's got the instincts and he very well could add the size to be a 3-4 ILB

[stevemcqueen1]

Travis lewis is not a ilb in a 3-4. Look for ilb that are atleast 245 right now

I wouldn't restrict yourself to that number. Jerrod Mayo was smallish in college and Lawrence Timmons isn't very big either.

[Dukes and Skins]

I wouldn't restrict yourself to that number. Jerrod Mayo was smallish in college and Lawrence Timmons isn't very big either.

And we've been showing more coverage out of our ILB's so it wouldn't surprise me one bit to see us take a guy like Timmons. Although I will say Riley did impress last week, still isn't ready yet IMO

[The Tris]

If not QB, I think it's pretty obvious that we should be looking CB or ILB in the first.

[Dukes and Skins]

If not QB, I think it's pretty obvious that we should be looking CB or ILB in the first.

I mean if it came down to Kuechly or say Cliff Harris I would rather take Kuechly just for the fact he's going to be an absolute stud and pay off dividends form day one, while Harris i'm not sure if Barnes plays well and Wilson and Hall are a good tandem(not a great one just a solid one)

[GWinSkins83]

A lot of us feel that Travis very well could be an ILB in the 3-4 scheme. He's got the instincts and he very well could add the size to be a 3-4 ILB
He doesnt shed blockers real good to me from some games I've seen. But Ima check some more film.

[The Tris]

I mean if it came down to Kuechly or say Cliff Harris I would rather take Kuechly just for the fact he's going to be an absolute stud and pay off dividends form day one, while Harris i'm not sure if Barnes plays well and Wilson and Hall are a good tandem(not a great one just a solid one)

You can never have to many corners.

Additionally, while I think both Barnes and Wilson are servicable #2's, Hall is far from an elite #1 CB, and we can certainly upgrade.

[GWinSkins83]

He doesnt shed blockers real good to me from some games I've seen. But Ima check some more film.
Well ok I just want to make sure we got some thumpers. I was looking into more of hightower out of Bama since he is in the 3-4.

---------- Post added August-23rd-2011 at 05:48 PM ----------


I mean if it came down to Kuechly or say Cliff Harris I would rather take Kuechly just for the fact he's going to be an absolute stud and pay off dividends form day one, while Harris i'm not sure if Barnes plays well and Wilson and Hall are a good tandem(not a great one just a solid one)

Janorios Jenkins! Just Say No to Cliff Harris.

[The Tris]

I'd rather have Jenkins than Harris as well. I'd rather have Minnifield than either though.

[stevemcqueen1]

He doesnt shed blockers real good to me from some games I've seen. But Ima check some more film.

One of the things I like about Travis is that he's fearless about generating contact. He doesn't run from blocks, he goes into them head on. He's very strong and aggressive for his size but at the same time, he doesn't play out of control and is a really disciplined tackler.

Travis Lewis is also really fast. When you go back to some of these great ILBs in college, they weren't big guys, they were fast guys whose ideal fit was considered to be WLB in a 4-3: Patrick Willis, Jerrod Mayo, and perhaps Sean Lee & Bruce Carter for Dallas.

In the cases of Willis and Mayo, neither are particularly big now and Willis actually moves to WLB a lot of snaps since San Francisco shifts to 4 man lines fairly regularly.

---------- Post added August-23rd-2011 at 06:42 PM ----------


I'd rather have Jenkins than Harris as well. I'd rather have Minnifield than either though.

I like both Minnifield and Jenkins but there is just something special about Harris to me. He's got star playmaking skills and looks like the best player in a pretty good Oregon program.

But I'd probably take Jayron Hosley over all of them :).

[Dukes and Skins]

I'd rather have Jenkins than Harris as well. I'd rather have Minnifield than either though.

Love what Minnifield does, hopefully under London they are guys who actually produce to their potential when heading to the NFL unlike under Groh

[GWinSkins83]

One of the things I like about Travis is that he's fearless about generating contact. He doesn't run from blocks, he goes into them head on. He's very strong and aggressive for his size but at the same time, he doesn't play out of control and is a really disciplined tackler.

Travis Lewis is also really fast. When you go back to some of these great ILBs in college, they weren't big guys, they were fast guys whose ideal fit was considered to be WLB in a 4-3: Patrick Willis, Jerrod Mayo, and perhaps Sean Lee & Bruce Carter for Dallas.

In the cases of Willis and Mayo, neither are particularly big now and Willis actually moves to WLB a lot of snaps since San Francisco shifts to 4 man lines fairly regularly.

---------- Post added August-23rd-2011 at 06:42 PM ----------



I like both Minnifield and Jenkins but there is just something special about Harris to me. He's got star playmaking skills and looks like the best player in a pretty good Oregon program.

But I'd probably take Jayron Hosley over all of them :).

Jenkins is a have superstar skills too. He is more of an shutdown corner. He was press covering Jones, Green, and Jeffery and it work. Go on youtube and tell that dude aint no bad man. He tackle, catches, and he is very tenacious. He looks like a pitbull out there playing.

---------- Post added August-23rd-2011 at 08:05 PM ----------


One of the things I like about Travis is that he's fearless about generating contact. He doesn't run from blocks, he goes into them head on. He's very strong and aggressive for his size but at the same time, he doesn't play out of control and is a really disciplined tackler.

Travis Lewis is also really fast. When you go back to some of these great ILBs in college, they weren't big guys, they were fast guys whose ideal fit was considered to be WLB in a 4-3: Patrick Willis, Jerrod Mayo, and perhaps Sean Lee & Bruce Carter for Dallas.

In the cases of Willis and Mayo, neither are particularly big now and Willis actually moves to WLB a lot of snaps since San Francisco shifts to 4 man lines fairly regularly.

---------- Post added August-23rd-2011 at 06:42 PM ----------



I like both Minnifield and Jenkins but there is just something special about Harris to me. He's got star playmaking skills and looks like the best player in a pretty good Oregon program.

But I'd probably take Jayron Hosley over all of them :).

I just looked at Hosley vs NC St and he is no where better than Jenkins. Dude has no awareness and he's not shutting the WRs down he is basicly waiting for the QB to make a mistake. Another D Hall he is. I want Revis and thats Jenkins.

[postong]

ITTTTTSSS BAAACCCKKKKK!!!!!!

So happy and pumped for the 2011/2012 CFB season and this thread!

I'm with steve, D&S, tris and other guys who think ILB and QB are our biggest needs. I'd love to get Barkley in the 1st, but I'm afraid he'll go too high for our pick (wishful thinking maybe).

I'm gonna follow and attempt to evaluate ILB's and C/G's. Looking forward to the thread this season!

[GibbsFactor]

Landry Jones, Matt Barkley, RG3, Kirk Cousins, Ryan Lindley, Ryan Tannellile.

I love it! Leave he who shall not be named out of it. We gonna be contenders this year!!

:silly:

[ConnSKINS26]

I've got some guys I'm going to keep an eye on just because I love watching them play, so its not exactly Redskins-related.

For one example, I can't wait to see what Trent Richardson does. I think he's going to go in the top ten, and put Ingram's pre-draft hype to shame. He'll show why Ingram lasted till the end of the 1st, and its not because of the continued devaluation of RB's in the NFL and NFL Draft. Its because he's not a transcendent talent. Richardson is. He'll be the best all-around workhorse back to enter the league since Peterson. Obviously there have been less highly-touted guys, even non-1st rounders, who have emerged since Peterson, which is why I hate using the "best since ___" schtick. But while those guys, like CJ2K, Rice, Charles, even DMC now that he has shaken the injury-prone label (I always thought he was an immensely talented runner though, even while others called him a bust prior to this year), etc., are all excellent, they aren't all-time-great physical talents like Peterson is. They aren't talents so above and beyond the norm that you can see them coming from a mile away.

Richardson is THAT guy. I'm getting a little excited in this post, and maybe going over the top, but I won't be surprised if by draft time this April, Richardson is actually considered a BETTER prospect than Peterson even was (minus the injury concerns). Hell, you'll hear every year somebody says that a WR prospect is a guaranteed stud, the "best since Calvin" in physical talent. We had Crabtree, then Dez, now Green and Julio. This year we'll have Blackmon and a couple others in a strong WR class. It happens all the time at WR. But not too often does this come along at RB. Richardson is special

On a similar note, I hate that Kniles is out for the season. Luckily, its not an injury that will effect him at all, once he heals. But he probably won't declare now, which is a shame. His finances aside, if he declared anyways it would be cool to know that you could take him in the 3rd-4th and get a TOTAL stud with 1st round talent who dropped because of a random broken leg and a relatively small resume (and consequently even less mileage on his legs than he would have). I have this selfish thought in my head: I kinda hope he's one of those kids whose so desperate to get drafted and help his family with money from a contract, that he ignores the smart thing and declares anyways. Because I can't justify taking even a Richardson-level talent in the 1st, but I can absolutely justify wanting a Kniles-level talent in the 3rd or later.

[GWinSkins83]

I love it! Leave he who shall not be named out of it. We gonna be contenders this year!!

:silly:
Yeah that what Im talking bout. If we picking in the 20's I say get oline or ilb, than in the second try and get Jenkins. Than in the third get Cousins or Ryan Tannehill or RG3. But Hey Im trying to shack the team so than when we get a ace QB we can step right in.

[ConnSKINS26]

Look how the QB's this year were torn apart and dissected in the media. Despite all of that, we watched how many QB's go in the 1st round? The 2nd? 3rd? Look how Locker was criticized, and he still went 8th overall.

If RGIII has even a decent year, a physical talent like him is not going to fall to the 3rd on draft day. No way.

[GWinSkins83]

I've got some guys I'm going to keep an eye on just because I love watching them play, so its not exactly Redskins-related.

For one example, I can't wait to see what Trent Richardson does. I think he's going to go in the top ten, and put Ingram's pre-draft hype to shame. He'll show why Ingram lasted till the end of the 1st, and its not because of the continued devaluation of RB's in the NFL and NFL Draft. Its because he's not a transcendent talent. Richardson is. He'll be the best all-around workhorse back to enter the league since Peterson. Obviously there have been less highly-touted guys, even non-1st rounders, who have emerged since Peterson, which is why I hate using the "best since ___" schtick. But while those guys, like CJ2K, Rice, Charles, even DMC now that he has shaken the injury-prone label (I always thought he was an immensely talented runner though, even while others called him a bust prior to this year), etc., are all excellent, they aren't all-time-great physical talents like Peterson is. They aren't talents so above and beyond the norm that you can see them coming from a mile away.

Richardson is THAT guy. I'm getting a little excited in this post, and maybe going over the top, but I won't be surprised if by draft time this April, Richardson is actually considered a BETTER prospect than Peterson even was (minus the injury concerns). Hell, you'll hear every year somebody says that a WR prospect is a guaranteed stud, the "best since Calvin" in physical talent. We had Crabtree, then Dez, now Green and Julio. This year we'll have Blackmon and a couple others in a strong WR class. It happens all the time at WR. But not too often does this come along at RB. Richardson is special

On a similar note, I hate that Kniles is out for the season. Luckily, its not an injury that will effect him at all, once he heals. But he probably won't declare now, which is a shame. His finances aside, if he declared anyways it would be cool to know that you could take him in the 3rd-4th and get a TOTAL stud with 1st round talent who dropped because of a random broken leg and a relatively small resume (and consequently even less mileage on his legs than he would have). I have this selfish thought in my head: I kinda hope he's one of those kids whose so desperate to get drafted and help his family with money from a contract, that he ignores the smart thing and declares anyways. Because I can't justify taking even a Richardson-level talent in the 1st, but I can absolutely justify wanting a Kniles-level talent in the 3rd or later.
I rather wait for Lamar Miller. Now he will kill it in the ZBS. He explose out of his cuts it looks like he'll snap his acl. But you can tell the game is in slow motion to him. Its crazy good.

---------- Post added August-23rd-2011 at 08:46 PM ----------


Look how the QB's this year were torn apart and dissected in the media. Despite all of that, we watched how many QB's go in the 1st round? The 2nd? 3rd? Look how Locker was criticized, and he still went 8th overall.

If RGIII has even a decent year, a physical talent like him is not going to fall to the 3rd on draft day. No way.

Only thing is supply and domand. Not many teams are going to be after QBs in the next draft. Thats a sham too cause this class is better but alot of QBs are going to slip. Name the logic teams thats going to be after a QB?

[TheRookie]

In the past, I haven't been a huge college football fan. However, thanks to this thread, I'll be keeping up a lot more this year.

At any rate, when you guys are talking about Kuechly, is he the type of LB that you would project in, say, the top 10, 15, of the draft or would you think he'd be available later in the round?...just trying to get a feel for where we'd need to be picking to have a realistic shot at getting some of these guys. Obviously, circumstances on draft day will dictate but I'm just trying to gain some perspective.

[GWinSkins83]

In the past, I haven't been a huge college football fan. However, thanks to this thread, I'll be keeping up a lot more this year.

At any rate, when you guys are talking about Kuechly, is he the type of LB that you would project in, say, the top 10, 15, of the draft or would you think he'd be available later in the round?...just trying to get a feel for where we'd need to be picking to have a realistic shot at getting some of these guys. Obviously, circumstances on draft day will dictate but I'm just trying to gain some perspective.
I believe he would be in the late first. He has the most production out of the ILBS. But he's a physical speciman like Bulfict, Te'o, and the Bama LBs. He's awareness is good I got to see what defense BC run. Since 3-4 ILBs are the toughest position to learn I would like to know which prospects already are making reads and playing a role like they will in the NFL. Thats y I would take da Bama LBs and Shov from Stanford cause they play 3-4.

[ConnSKINS26]

Only thing is supply and domand. Not many teams are going to be after QBs in the next draft. Thats a sham too cause this class is better but alot of QBs are going to slip. Name the logic teams thats going to be after a QB?

Possibly Miami, Buffalo, Denver, and Seattle.

Kansas City, Oakland, Cleveland, SF, and Cincinatti are less likely possibilities as well. Teams don't have to stick with 2nd/3rd round QB's if something much better comes along after a very down year.

Also, have you seen the Colt's play without Manning the last 5 years? That team NEEDS to spend a relatively high pick on his replacement before its too late, even if he's got a few years left, even if its just a 3rd round guy with potential. Because that team will get run out of town if they have to play an entire season without Manning, and without a future QB with some actual talent. If that Brady injury had happened to Manning instead, the Colt's would have gone 3-13 at best. Abysmal team.

[Dukes and Skins]

In the past, I haven't been a huge college football fan. However, thanks to this thread, I'll be keeping up a lot more this year.

At any rate, when you guys are talking about Kuechly, is he the type of LB that you would project in, say, the top 10, 15, of the draft or would you think he'd be available later in the round?...just trying to get a feel for where we'd need to be picking to have a realistic shot at getting some of these guys. Obviously, circumstances on draft day will dictate but I'm just trying to gain some perspective.

He's a guy who talent wise is a top 10 talent, but will get overlooked to a guy like Burfict or Te'o but will be just as productive. Burfict is the flashy playmaker LB who has discipline issues and Te'o has been hyped up ever since he picked ND over USC.

[wilco_holland]

Don´t we need to slow down? Don't know if I can handle a year long draftmadness, I have like a life XD

[stevemcqueen1]

In the past, I haven't been a huge college football fan. However, thanks to this thread, I'll be keeping up a lot more this year.

At any rate, when you guys are talking about Kuechly, is he the type of LB that you would project in, say, the top 10, 15, of the draft or would you think he'd be available later in the round?...just trying to get a feel for where we'd need to be picking to have a realistic shot at getting some of these guys. Obviously, circumstances on draft day will dictate but I'm just trying to gain some perspective.

ILBs don't usually go top ten. I'd guess Kuechly could go somewhere from 10-25 with a good season under his belt. The insane supply of MLBs this season will probably convince him to go back to school though :(.

[The Tris]

Love what Minnifield does, hopefully under London they are guys who actually produce to their potential when heading to the NFL unlike under Groh

Actually, you have it backwards - players under Groh continually underwhelmed in college, but were excellent pros. The past decade UVA players have been great values based on their draft positions.

Much like QBs, I feel CBs who play on weaker teams (worse defenses - less pass rush, etc) and still excel are the best values on the board. Minefield putting up comparable numbers to Horsley and Kirkpatrick with a fraction of the defensive front seven pressure? Now that's impressive. (not saying that he is better, but there is something to say for that)

[ATLredskin]

If not QB, I think it's pretty obvious that we should be looking CB or ILB in the first.

Yes to CB...No to ILB

We should draft a ILB in the first only when Fletcher decide to call it quits that way we can have a young guy fill his shoes right away for 8+ years. I wouldn't stress over that position since there is a high success rate for 1st round MLB. Yes, I said MLB, but i'm not sure how the success rate for first round 3-4 ILBs. I'm sure its not a hard position to evaluate though....

[Dro89]

One of the things I like about Travis is that he's fearless about generating contact. He doesn't run from blocks, he goes into them head on. He's very strong and aggressive for his size but at the same time, he doesn't play out of control and is a really disciplined tackler.

Travis Lewis is also really fast. When you go back to some of these great ILBs in college, they weren't big guys, they were fast guys whose ideal fit was considered to be WLB in a 4-3: Patrick Willis, Jerrod Mayo, and perhaps Sean Lee & Bruce Carter for Dallas.

In the cases of Willis and Mayo, neither are particularly big now and Willis actually moves to WLB a lot of snaps since San Francisco shifts to 4 man lines fairly regularly.

---------- Post added August-23rd-2011 at 06:42 PM ----------



I like both Minnifield and Jenkins but there is just something special about Harris to me. He's got star playmaking skills and looks like the best player in a pretty good Oregon program.

But I'd probably take Jayron Hosley over all of them :).

best thing said in this thread yet.

[ConnSKINS26]

Don´t we need to slow down? Don't know if I can handle a year long draftmadness, I have like a life XD

Never. ;)

[terrifNick21]

Jason Ford
Isaiah Pead
Bryce Brown
Ralph Bolden
Nick Toon
Jermaine Kearse
Mike Adams
Matt McCants
Elvis Fisher
Andrew Datko
Chris Jacobson
Jaymes Brooks
David Molk
James Brooks
Billy Winn
Jerel Worthy
Coryell Judie
Morris Claiborne


Just a few of the guys that have jumped out at me so far when I've watched them. I went with names that I don't believe have already been said. I've underlined my favorites of the group I mentioned and wouldn't mind seeing them as Redskins.

[GWinSkins83]

Possibly Miami, Buffalo, Denver, and Seattle.

Kansas City, Oakland, Cleveland, SF, and Cincinatti are less likely possibilities as well. Teams don't have to stick with 2nd/3rd round QB's if something much better comes along after a very down year.

Also, have you seen the Colt's play without Manning the last 5 years? That team NEEDS to spend a relatively high pick on his replacement before its too late, even if he's got a few years left, even if its just a 3rd round guy with potential. Because that team will get run out of town if they have to play an entire season without Manning, and without a future QB with some actual talent. If that Brady injury had happened to Manning instead, the Colt's would have gone 3-13 at best. Abysmal team.

Cleveland no McCoy is going to be a beast this year. Bengals yeah if they are in the top spot. Other than than I dont see them giving up on Dalton. Seattle yeah so say Barkley. Oakland we'll see what they do with Pryor. If they keep him at QB then no they wont be after a QB. Colts yes. Bills yeah in the second not in the first LT Kalil thats who I think with them. Dolphins yeah Jones. Chiefs no. SF I dont know if they cant get Luck will they get another project QB if they cant get barkley or jones too? Alot of the QBs after those three could use a redshirt year I think. Broncos I think they are going to stick with Tebow. I just think they want him to sit and if they can get Luck then they would take him. But its not alot of teams like last year that needed QBs. Some will slip.

---------- Post added August-23rd-2011 at 09:54 PM ----------


Don´t we need to slow down? Don't know if I can handle a year long draftmadness, I have like a life XD
All man stop crying and name some of your prospects to look for.

[ConnSKINS26]

Cleveland no McCoy is going to be a beast this year. Bengals yeah if they are in the top spot. Other than than I dont see them giving up on Dalton. Seattle yeah so say Barkley. Oakland we'll see what they do with Pryor. If they keep him at QB then no they wont be after a QB. Colts yes. Bills yeah in the second not in the first LT Kalil thats who I think with them. Dolphins yeah Jones. Chiefs no. SF I dont know if they cant get Luck will they get another project QB if they cant get barkley or jones too? Alot of the QBs after those three could use a redshirt year I think. Broncos I think they are going to stick with Tebow. I just think they want him to sit and if they can get Luck then they would take him. But its not alot of teams like last year that needed QBs. Some will slip.

Its all speculation, so I'm not going to argue your logic, even where I disagree.

All I'm saying that in the event that any of these teams under-perform even their mediocre expectations, and along the way their QB doesn't play well, guys like Henne, Fitzpatrick, Tebow, Whitehurst/Tarvaris, Cassell, Campbell/Pryor, McCoy, Kaepernick, and Dalton aren't going to stop a team from taking a better QB in the top half of the first round, in the right situation. Again, IF the team's QB's don't look good.

I'm with you on McCoy, but its a possibility. He's a 3rd rounder, so there's not much commitment. I think he'll be fine, but he might not.

Tebow will never be the starting QB of the Denver Broncos. Brady Quinn is passing him on the depth chart for the #2 spot.

[ATLredskin]

Look how the QB's this year were torn apart and dissected in the media. Despite all of that, we watched how many QB's go in the 1st round? The 2nd? 3rd? Look how Locker was criticized, and he still went 8th overall.

If RGIII has even a decent year, a physical talent like him is not going to fall to the 3rd on draft day. No way.

Every draft is different though...in mocks I seen him go as high as late first and on draft boards seen him right outside the top 200.

[Dukes and Skins]

Actually, you have it backwards - players under Groh continually underwhelmed in college, but were excellent pros. The past decade UVA players have been great values based on their draft positions.

Much like QBs, I feel CBs who play on weaker teams (worse defenses - less pass rush, etc) and still excel are the best values on the board. Minefield putting up comparable numbers to Horsley and Kirkpatrick with a fraction of the defensive front seven pressure? Now that's impressive. (not saying that he is better, but there is something to say for that)

I mean he put up some great numbers and yet for some reason teams continued to throw his way and he made great INT's. I think it was against the U he had that sick INT in the endzone. Rod Gilmore was actually talking about him a couple weeks ago as a guy to watch this year

[ConnSKINS26]

Bryce Brown is very interesting to me. Complete stud recruit, who has never really started a college game because of the transfer. Will be very interesting to watch, with all the hype that was behind him kind of faded. But when a 5-star recruit, #1 at his position, transfers to a smaller school and is finally going to get his chance to start, I pay attention. Guy could tear up the nation this year. If he proves he can catch as well as be a stud running the ball, he could also be viewed as one of those "best since ____" prospects. Unfortunately, I've read that he's in his coaches doghouse after an offseason of not really being around and not being dedicated, so he STILL might not get a full chance to prove that he can live up to the past expectations.

The thing that might worry me, though, is his work ethic, as evidenced by the above doghouse comment. I mean, he transferred to Kansas to play with his brother, who is a leader on the team. And yet, his brother was around for all the voluntary workouts, etc. all summer being a leader and participating, and Bryce was no where to be found most of the time it seems.

Not a good sign for his dedication. Guy's obviously got a huge ego after being such a highly regarded recruit, even though he hasn't lived up to it.


---------- Post added August-23rd-2011 at 10:09 PM ----------


Every draft is different though...in mocks I seen him go as high as late first and on draft boards seen him right outside the top 200.

Oh no, I agree with this. I was just saying that even in a draft with tons of decent QB prospects, guys who were considered flawed, kinda raw, but physically elite were taken very high, regardless. So its doubtful that a guy with the measurables and talent of RGIII would fall all the way to the 3rd, if he showed the ability to even be a developmental passer.

[GWinSkins83]

Bryce Brown is very interesting to me. Complete stud recruit, who has never really started a college game because of the transfer. Will be very interesting to watch, with all the hype that was behind him kind of faded. But when a 5-star recruit, #1 at his position, transfers to a smaller school and is finally going to get his chance to start, I pay attention. Guy could tear up the nation this year. If he proves he can catch as well as be a stud running the ball, he could also be viewed as one of those "best since ____" prospects. Unfortunately, I've read that he's in his coaches doghouse after an offseason of not really being around and not being dedicated, so he STILL might not get a full chance to prove that he can live up to the past expectations.

The thing that might worry me, though, is his work ethic, as evidenced by the above doghouse comment. I mean, he transferred to Kansas to play with his brother, who is a leader on the team. And yet, his brother was around for all the voluntary workouts, etc. all summer being a leader and participating, and Bryce was no where to be found most of the time it seems.

Not a good sign for his dedication. Guy's obviously got a huge ego after being such a highly regarded recruit, even though he hasn't lived up to it.


---------- Post added August-23rd-2011 at 10:09 PM ----------



Oh no, I agree with this. I was just saying that even in a draft with tons of decent QB prospects, guys who were considered flawed, kinda raw, but physically elite were taken very high, regardless. So its doubtful that a guy with the measurables and talent of RGIII would fall all the way to the 3rd, if he showed the ability to even be a developmental passer.
I mean it could happen if some of the teams want a more polish passer or a pocket passer. Im just sayin this draft is deep. ILB, WR, OG, OT, OC, OLB, CB, RB, and S. That can push a QB down who would have thought McCoy fell to the 3rd or even Clausen to the 2nd? It was said Clausen was competing with Bradford for top QB. So it happens.

[Dukes and Skins]

I mean it could happen if some of the teams want a more polish passer or a pocket passer. Im just sayin this draft is deep. ILB, WR, OG, OT, OC, OLB, CB, RB, and S. That can push a QB down who would have thought McCoy fell to the 3rd or even Clausen to the 2nd? It was said Clausen was competing with Bradford for top QB. So it happens.

No one was competing with Bradford for that top QB spot I can guarantee that the whole talk of Clausen that high was just pure draft hype

[ConnSKINS26]

I mean it could happen if some of the teams want a more polish passer or a pocket passer. Im just sayin this draft is deep. ILB, WR, OG, OT, OC, OLB, CB, RB, and S. That can push a QB down who would have thought McCoy fell to the 3rd or even Clausen to the 2nd? It was said Clausen was competing with Bradford for top QB. So it happens.

The difference is that Clausen and McCoy were both hugely hyped by the media...but they didn't have the same physical tools or attributes of a top QB. Not really.

Many of the QB's this year DID, despite all of their question marks. Same with this coming year, there are many that fit the profile of a franchise QB.

[Hitman21ST]

The difference is that Clausen and McCoy were both hugely hyped by the media...but they didn't have the same physical tools or attributes of a top QB. Not really.

Many of the QB's this year DID, despite all of their question marks. Same with this coming year, there are many that fit the profile of a franchise QB.

So, the question is (and I know you can't possibly answer this without looking into Shanahan's mind): Do we trade up in the draft?

[darrelgreenie]

I don't think the FO will look to draft a QB w/ a high pick.
But one would expect them to draft a developmental/QB of the future.
I'm hoping Ryan Tannehill flies under the radar and gets discounted due to limited starts/attempts.
I really like that kids skillset, he's a talent.
If he's available 3rd round that would be good value.

[Hitman21ST]

I don't think the FO will look to draft a QB w/ a high pick.
But one would expect them to draft a developmental/QB of the future.
I'm hoping Ryan Tannehill flies under the radar and gets discounted due to limited starts/attempts.
I really like that kids skillset, he's a talent.
If he's available 3rd round that would be good value.

He's the A&M QB, right? The guy who played receiver up to last year?

[GWinSkins83]

The difference is that Clausen and McCoy were both hugely hyped by the media...but they didn't have the same physical tools or attributes of a top QB. Not really.

Many of the QB's this year DID, despite all of their question marks. Same with this coming year, there are many that fit the profile of a franchise QB.
So you telling me Dalton or Ponder was better than McCoy? One thing is else is McCoy wasnt hyped they said he didnt have a arm. But that was said about Dalton and Ponder. McCoy was every bit the QB than those prospects.

[Hitman21ST]

On a side note, this thread has only been around 12 hours, and it's already on page 8. That extrapolates to 5840 pages over a year's time

[darrelgreenie]

The difference is that Clausen and McCoy were both hugely hyped by the media...but they didn't have the same physical tools or attributes of a top QB. Not really.

Many of the QB's this year DID, despite all of their question marks. Same with this coming year, there are many that fit the profile of a franchise QB.According to who?
I don't recall Clausen or McCoy being hyped very much at all.
In fact I recall McCoy being on the receiving end of a draftnik hatchet job by Waltersfootball.

I thought McCoy's skillset (physical skills/attributes) weren't/aren't too far off from Bradfords.
I wasn't a big fan of Clausen but he was the most 'pro-ready' prospect and also had a similar physical skills as Bradford.

[Malcomb Kelly's Knees]

Nobody seems to be talking about Case Keenum, I mean hes been putting up monster numbers in Huston the last few seasons until his injury in 2010.

He threw 88 TDs to 36 INTS over the course of 2 seasons.

I mean assuming hes healthy again he could be a late round steal.

[darrelgreenie]

He's the A&M QB, right? The guy who played receiver up to last year?Yep.

[ConnSKINS26]

So, the question is (and I know you can't possibly answer this without looking into Shanahan's mind): Do we trade up in the draft?

I don't think so. I just don't think that's our MO, even though everyone has this "Shanahan will do anything to get his guy" thing in their head.

I should clarify. I don't think we'll do it if it means trading into the top of the draft. If we're around #18-20 overall, and need to trade up to 12-16, sure, I could see it if he loves the guy.

But I don't see us doing it if its a "sell the farm" thing for a top-10 pick. Luckily, I think there are enough QB prospects this year, and enough teams that, like GWinSkins83 said, have filled their QB needs for now, that we can grab a guy we love in the mid-1st or later, if that's our goal.

[GWinSkins83]

So you telling me Dalton or Ponder was better than McCoy? One thing is else is McCoy wasnt hyped they said he didnt have a arm. But that was said about Dalton and Ponder. McCoy was every bit the QB than those prospects.

I'll even say that we should have drafted him with our third rounder instead of Riley who Haslett seems to be relucant to start. Just saying McCoy was a better prospect than those. I'll even go far and say he had no stars around him on offense. So basicly he was carrying Texas.

[Hitman21ST]

Yep.

Haven't paid attention to him at all. Is he really a good QB?

[terrifNick21]

Haven't paid attention to him at all. Is he really a good QB?

He showed signs last year. I think with more experience, he can be really, really good.

[GWinSkins83]

Keenum can be a late round steal. If he stays healthy he could be someone to look at. How old will he be i know he got 2 redshirts for injuries right?

[ConnSKINS26]

So you telling me Dalton or Ponder was better than McCoy? One thing is else is McCoy wasnt hyped they said he didnt have a arm. But that was said about Dalton and Ponder. McCoy was every bit the QB than those prospects.

I think that McCoy the "prospect" is much closer to those guys now, a year later, with what we know. Being perceived as having a pop-gun arm can hurt a prospect quite a lot, and I think we saw a lot of that with McCoy. But he fits perfectly into that West Coast system, and was clearly undervalued. I'm still not totally sold on him, but I'm not sold on Dalton or Ponder at all. Especially where Ponder was taken.

I think that when McCoy came out, there were a lot of teams right on the fringe of "needing" a new franchise QB who held off that draft, resulting in guys sliding. It was a weak QB draft after Bradford anyways. This year, things came together and a large number of teams felt the need to take a stab at filling that hole, and many reached because of this.

[terrifNick21]

Keenum can be a late round steal. If he stays healthy he could be someone to look at. How old will he be i know he got 2 redshirts for injuries right?

He'll be 24 next draft.

[ConnSKINS26]

According to who?
I don't recall Clausen or McCoy being hyped very much at all.
In fact I recall McCoy being on the receiving end of a draftnik hatchet job by Waltersfootball.

I thought McCoy's skillset (physical skills/attributes) weren't/aren't too far off from Bradfords.
I wasn't a big fan of Clausen but he was the most 'pro-ready' prospect and also had a similar physical skills as Bradford.

Clausen was being hugely hyped. He was being mocked to us at #4 all over the place, and people were actually saying that he could be challenging Bradford for the #1 QB taken (this was before Bradford's pro day. It died down after that a bit).

McCoy you may be correct about, I think he was more hyped by fans.

[Dukes and Skins]

He showed signs last year. I think with more experience, he can be really, really good.

Some feel that if he puts up a big year that he could be in the 1st round talk pretty easily. I agree as well, more experience this guy can be a stud

[ConnSKINS26]

I'll even say that we should have drafted him with our third rounder instead of Riley who Haslett seems to be relucant to start. Just saying McCoy was a better prospect than those. I'll even go far and say he had no stars around him on offense. So basicly he was carrying Texas.

Riley was a 4th rounder. We didn't have a 3rd that year, because we spent it the summer before on Jeremy Jarmon in the Supplemental draft.

---------- Post added August-23rd-2011 at 10:53 PM ----------


Some feel that if he puts up a big year that he could be in the 1st round talk pretty easily. I agree as well, more experience this guy can be a stud

Almost makes you wonder why he was recruited as a WR. Did he really play WR in HS? I would have to think he played QB in HS, since the best athletes on the team usually do. And I doubt he's throwing the ball for the first time in college haha.

So then why was he switched to WR at A&M, and what made them realize he should start at QB for them? Its all very strange to me, as I don't know the story at all.

[Dukes and Skins]

http://dallasnews.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Pr_Key=54556

Looks like he was a recruited QB listed as a dual threat. Really confusing situation to be honest :ols:

[GWinSkins83]

I think that McCoy the "prospect" is much closer to those guys now, a year later, with what we know. Being perceived as having a pop-gun arm can hurt a prospect quite a lot, and I think we saw a lot of that with McCoy. But he fits perfectly into that West Coast system, and was clearly undervalued. I'm still not totally sold on him, but I'm not sold on Dalton or Ponder at all. Especially where Ponder was taken.

I think that when McCoy came out, there were a lot of teams right on the fringe of "needing" a new franchise QB who held off that draft, resulting in guys sliding. It was a weak QB draft after Bradford anyways. This year, things came together and a large number of teams felt the need to take a stab at filling that hole, and many reached because of this.

If people look at film you would have seen a quick release, accurate, and make the right reads. He passed for like 77% his junior year. He throw 69% his senior year and it was viewed as a down year.LOL. Arm stregth dont matter with me cause that can be developed in one offseason. He could get it up to where it needed to be for the offense to work. Aaron Rogers didnt have a strong arm either. He has one now. I dont know all they could say about Colt was his arm. Lets say Locker his problem was accuracy in the pocket, reading coverage, pocket persence. Those were all Colts strenghts. Only Locker had on Colt is a arm.

[ConnSKINS26]

http://dallasnews.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Pr_Key=54556

Looks like he was a recruited QB listed as a dual threat. Really confusing situation to be honest :ols:

Thanks for the link....interesting!

[GWinSkins83]

http://dallasnews.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Pr_Key=54556

Looks like he was a recruited QB listed as a dual threat. Really confusing situation to be honest :ols:

They should have a Palm Face right now! Im sorry how could they blow that. They could have been the big 12 champs last year if they didnt play him at WR first. I know they have regrets. They failed big time for this situation. They should have a Heisman canidate right now.

[Dukes and Skins]

They should have a Palm Face right now! Im sorry how could they blow that. They could have been the big 12 champs last year if they didnt play him at WR first. I know they have regrets. They failed big time for this situation. They should have a Heisman canidate right now.

I mean at the same time I can understand not playing him last year because of Jerrod Johnson but why is he a WR? I mean he's an athlete but he's a QB and you recruited him as a QB(can't find anything saying other wise)

[ConnSKINS26]

If people look at film you would have seen a quick release, accurate, and make the right reads. He passed for like 77% his junior year. He throw 69% his senior year and it was viewed as a down year.LOL. Arm stregth dont matter with me cause that can be developed in one offseason. He could get it up to where it needed to be for the offense to work. Aaron Rogers didnt have a strong arm either. He has one now. I dont know all they could say about Colt was his arm. Lets say Locker his problem was accuracy in the pocket, reading coverage, pocket persence. Those were all Colts strenghts. Only Locker had on Colt is a arm.

I'm not arguing with you, I'm just saying its tough to compare between different classes, because things change: mainly, team needs and supply/demand.

You can't fairly say "why did Locker go 8th overall and Colt 3rd round??", because they are totally different players, who came out different years, into a league that had different needs. And one of them hasn't even played yet. So its tough. It could all just be perception. But its very hard to say.

---------- Post added August-23rd-2011 at 11:07 PM ----------


I mean at the same time I can understand not playing him last year because of Jerrod Johnson but why is he a WR? I mean he's an athlete but he's a QB and you recruited him as a QB(can't find anything saying other wise)

I think its very realistic to think that since they had Johnson doing a fine job for them, they just needed to get him on the field any way they could, because he's a great athlete, to help them win, regardless of their intention to move him to QB after Johnson left.

Maybe that's not how it went down, but its possible.

[GWinSkins83]

I mean at the same time I can understand not playing him last year because of Jerrod Johnson but why is he a WR? I mean he's an athlete but he's a QB and you recruited him as a QB(can't find anything saying other wise)
One thing that makes good coaches is playing the best QB. Tannehill came in and just took that team to new highs. How is that? I mean I dont know how some of these coaches get their jobs. Thats why I like how Mike is handling this QB competition. He knows whos going to start, but he going to keep it open so he can see the best under the most pressure.

[Dukes and Skins]

Conn that is an extremely plausible situation because hey he's mobile and can make plays, lets just get him on the field. Just one crazy story thats for sure

[postong]

What do you guys think of Dayne Crist? Is he a prospect worth watching this year? Would he be a late round project?

Also, what would be your top 5 OG's and C's?

[Dukes and Skins]

What do you guys think of Dayne Crist? Is he a prospect worth watching this year? Would he be a late round project?

Also, what would be your top 5 OG's and C's?

Personally not a huge fan of Crist if we take a QB I want to take one in the 1st 4 rounds of so considering just how deep this class is. Personally if we're going QB in the draft I think it'll be a round 1 QB, maybe even a round 2 guy like Kirk Cousins.

OG's and C's i'm kinda iffy on right now haven't really gotten huge into them, but keep an eye on Nate Potter as someone who moves into the G position in the ZBS scheme. Currently is the LT at Boise

[ConnSKINS26]

After I was hoodwinked by myself into liking Clausen so much, I'm very cautious about Crist haha.

[Soup]

Great, will talk about Denard Robinson and kellen moore until Tris gets pissed off with me. Which shouldn't take too long.

My QB formula..... Awesome hair = Awesome QB.

[ConnSKINS26]

Great, will talk about Denard Robinson and kellen moore until Tris gets pissed off with me. Which shouldn't take too long.

My QB formula..... Awesome hair = Awesome QB.

Hahaha.You must have LOVED Gabbert then??

[darrelgreenie]

Almost makes you wonder why he was recruited as a WR. Did he really play WR in HS? I would have to think he played QB in HS, since the best athletes on the team usually do. And I doubt he's throwing the ball for the first time in college haha.

So then why was he switched to WR at A&M, and what made them realize he should start at QB for them? Its all very strange to me, as I don't know the story at all.I followed Texas A&M because I like watching their offense (a version of Mike Shanahan's offense) and because of their QB Jerrod Johnson.

Tannehill was recruited as a QB but he wasn't going to start of Jerrod Johnson.
He was a good enough athlete to play WR so Mike Sherman asked him to move to WR to help the team.
Last year Jerrod Johnson recovering from shoulder surgery got benched and Tannelhill took over and played well.

[Dukes and Skins]

Hahaha.You must have LOVED Gabbert then??


Do you not remember the sig Soup was rocking about Gabbert? I think it said awesome hair = awesome QB under a dude with long blonde hair

[Soup]

Hahaha.You must have LOVED Gabbert then??

Best QB by far....lol

I come to the thread for the fights. Some of the fights that go on in the draft thread are epic.

[darrelgreenie]

If people look at film you would have seen a quick release, accurate, and make the right reads.I like this guy.


Lets say Locker his problem was accuracy in the pocket, reading coverage, pocket persence. Those were all Colts strenghts. Only Locker had on Colt is a arm.
I think that was the media perception in regards to Locker but I don't think it reflected the reality especially considered where he was drafted.
From a physical standpoint Newton and Locker were the best of both worlds as prospects: elite arm and elite playmaking.

[ConnSKINS26]

Do you not remember the sig Soup was rocking about Gabbert? I think it said awesome hair = awesome QB under a dude with long blonde hair

Well, it was a joke haha, because I remember Soup hating making me a Gabbert sig lol.

---------- Post added August-23rd-2011 at 11:56 PM ----------


Best QB by far....lol

I come to the thread for the fights. Some of the fights that go on in the draft thread are epic.

I'll take a little bow, because I can only imagine that I am a part in some of them haha.

---------- Post added August-23rd-2011 at 11:56 PM ----------


I followed Texas A&M because I like watching their offense (a version of Mike Shanahan's offense) and because of their QB Jerrod Johnson.

Tannehill was recruited as a QB but he wasn't going to start of Jerrod Johnson.
He was a good enough athlete to play WR so Mike Sherman asked him to move to WR to help the team.
Last year Jerrod Johnson recovering from shoulder surgery got benched and Tannelhill took over and played well.

Thanks for clearing that up dg, looks like I was close!

[Soup]

Well, it was a joke haha, because I remember Soup hating making me a Gabbert sig lol.


:ols: Yeah that's right, I called him BP Blaine....lol

---------- Post added August-24th-2011 at 12:07 AM ----------

Seriously though, I think the real analysts (excluding myself of course) in this thread should come together and make a blog and just post links to draft profiles on the front page. You guys could divide the teams up so each person follows 2 or 3 teams. that way they can really analyze those teams without watching so much tape. Like ESPN does with its NFL blogs, one person is assigned to each division.

[ConnSKINS26]

Well, I'm pretty sure that dukes, steve, and Tris have their redskins draft blog, so I'm sure with some organization, if they wanted to do it that way, it could be done.

[wilco_holland]

Did we ever made a profile of a Shanahan QB? We know the need to be (sneuky) atheletic and stuff but like persone wise.

What kind of guy does it need to be? And how about Kyle?

Does he like QB's with an attitude? We need a FBI profiler for this, any availble? ;)

[757SeanTaylor21]

What about vt's lendell gibson?

[FrFan]

Justin Blackmon
Landry Jones
Andrew Datko
Nico Johnson
Dont'a Hightower

[VaBeachRedskin]

What about vt's lendell gibson?

He transferred after he was essentially kicked off VT's team. Add to it that he struggled to make an impact when he was starting and I don't see him making any real draft noise in the near future.

[GWinSkins83]

Did we ever made a profile of a Shanahan QB? We know the need to be (sneuky) atheletic and stuff but like persone wise.

What kind of guy does it need to be? And how about Kyle?

Does he like QB's with an attitude? We need a FBI profiler for this, any availble? ;)
Got to be a gym rat. I also think he got to take charge of the team. I think Mike and Kyle would respect that. A real competitive person n perfectionist.

[stevemcqueen1]

What do you all think about Chris Relf from Mississppi State? He looks like a pretty exciting player to me.

[Dro89]

Janzen Jackson*, FS, Tennessee
Height: 6-0. Weight: 180.
Projected 40 Time: 4.40.
Projected Round (2012): 3-5.
5/30/11: Janzen Jackson mysteriously withdrew from Tennessee in February to deal with personal issues. This undoubtedly hurts his draft stock.


anyone heard about this personal issues?

---------- Post added August-24th-2011 at 10:17 AM ----------

since he plays in the acc i'm going to keep a eye on this monstrous guy..

T.J. Barnes*, NT, Georgia Tech
Height: 6-7. Weight: 333.
Projected 40 Time: 5.35.
Projected Round (2012): 7-FA.

[Warpath11]

T.J. Barnes*, NT, Georgia Tech
Height: 6-7. Weight: 333.
Projected 40 Time: 5.35.
Projected Round (2012): 7-FA.

Might be worth a flyer as a UDFA but I think his height will be an issue when playing NT...he will likely loose leverage pretty quickly. As for Jackson seem a bit smallish to play FS so I would give him a shot as a corner first, then maybe move him back to FS if CB does not work out.

[terrifNick21]

Janzen Jackson*, FS, Tennessee
Height: 6-0. Weight: 180.
Projected 40 Time: 4.40.
Projected Round (2012): 3-5.
5/30/11: Janzen Jackson mysteriously withdrew from Tennessee in February to deal with personal issues. This undoubtedly hurts his draft stock.


anyone heard about this personal issues?

---------- Post added August-24th-2011 at 10:17 AM ----------

since he plays in the acc i'm going to keep a eye on this monstrous guy..

T.J. Barnes*, NT, Georgia Tech
Height: 6-7. Weight: 333.
Projected 40 Time: 5.35.
Projected Round (2012): 7-FA.

Not sure the specifics on Janzen, but it's a tough loss for the Vols. Dude can lay the wood! For some reason, I remember earlier this year, he withdrew from the school, so I thought he was done playing ball anywhere at UT.


As for Barnes, he looks too big for the ZBS. Admittedly, I've not seen him on film, but based on his height/weight/40, it looks as if he'd be better in a power running game. Most of the time, you want 320 LB or lighterl quick, agile guys along the o-line for the ZBS.

---------- Post added August-24th-2011 at 09:59 AM ----------


Might be worth a flyer as a UDFA but I think his height will be an issue when playing NT...he will likely loose leverage pretty quickly. As for Jackson seem a bit smallish to play FS so I would give him a shot as a corner first, then maybe move him back to FS if CB does not work out.

He's originally a corner anyway. UT moved him to S.

[USS Redskins]

I would love to get the following, but we'd probably only have a shot at one or two of them.

I would prioritize this draft with QB, RT, C, ILB, a red zone weapon, and then line depth. This is going to be another deep draft...and that 4th round pick we are getting from the Raiders will really pay dividens when we are talking about establishing depth. With our picks, we'll also be able to move around a bit.

Matt Barkley, QB, USC (dead ringer for the bootleg system)
Nate Potter, T, Boise State (he should be there in the second, runs well and blocks well.)
Manti Te'o, 3-4 ILB, Notre Dame (he'll likely be a first round pick, but this kid is a tackling machine and an absolute beast)
Peter Konz, C, Wisconsin (like this guy's size/speed, he should be there in the third as of now).

This is spot on. I am not a college fan, so I like these threads to see whats out there. the only other pressing need would be a true #1 WR. Big and tough guy...

QB is a must in this draft. Beck is 30 and both he and Grossman will get you a consistent 8 wins.

[terrifNick21]

What do you all think about Chris Relf from Mississppi State? He looks like a pretty exciting player to me.

Most definitely going to have see more from him. I have my top 16 QBs listed, but he's not among them, and he probably wouldn't be in the top 25 when I get that far.

If he does have a great year, you'll hear about him "being from the spread..yadda yadda yadda". But as I said, he's going to be a guy I watch this year being in SEC country. I put him in the same boat as Ryan Tannehill for right now. Have to see more from each.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

Landry Jones (Recently Seen a mock with us landing him around the 10 spot)


I really wanna see him play some games. Haven't seen him at all. Def going to start watching some college football this year.

[terrifNick21]

I really wanna see him play some games. Haven't seen him at all. Def going to start watching some college football this year.

I'm not high on Landry. He's got great accuracy, but he makes the most BONEHEADED throws at the wrong times and costs OU. His decision making isn't nearly the best in the world, but if he corrects it, I wouldn't be too upset with him at QB. He's got all the skills in the world, including accuracy as I've mentioned before, which to me, is the most important attribute in a QB along with anticipation.

[stevemcqueen1]

This is a good cornerback year. There are a lot of impressive players. One big name that underwhelmed me when I watched his cutups was Alfonso Dennard. I'm not sure what the fuss is about with him, as I thought he was dwarfed by Amukamara. I'll be looking forward to watching more of him this season to see how he improves.

One guy I really enjoyed watching the cutups for was Omar Bolden from ASU. He's a really good player that I can't wait to see more of. Between him and Vontaze Burfict, the ASU defense should be a lot of fun to watch this season.

---------- Post added August-24th-2011 at 11:20 AM ----------


Most definitely going to have see more from him. I have my top 16 QBs listed, but he's not among them, and he probably wouldn't be in the top 25 when I get that far.

If he does have a great year, you'll hear about him "being from the spread..yadda yadda yadda". But as I said, he's going to be a guy I watch this year being in SEC country. I put him in the same boat as Ryan Tannehill for right now. Have to see more from each.

Yeah I haven't seen enough of him yet. At first blush though he reminds me of Cam Newton with his speed and agility and coming from a similar offensive system.

EDIT: Came Newton also wouldn't have made anyone's top 15 lists going into the year and he ended up being the first QB drafted. So much can change in a single season.

---------- Post added August-24th-2011 at 11:23 AM ----------

I just looked up information on Omar Bolden and it looks like he tore his ACL in spring practice and his status for this season is in doubt. That's a damn shame. I hope he's able to come back before the end of the season.

[terrifNick21]

This is a good cornerback year. There are a lot of impressive players. One big name that underwhelmed me when I watched his cutups was Alfonso Dennard. I'm not sure what the fuss is about with him, as I thought he was dwarfed by Amukamara. I'll be looking forward to watching more of him this season to see how he improves.

One guy I really enjoyed watching the cutups for was Omar Bolden from ASU. He's a really good player that I can't wait to see more of. Between him and Vontaze Burfict, the ASU defense should be a lot of fun to watch this season.


Agreed 100% with this. I'm a huge fan of Dennard, and wouldn't be shocked if he's better than Prince in the long run. I love his physicality and the fact that he's always around the ball it seems. Pretty hard hitter for his frame, too. I have Dennard, Judie, Kirkpatrick, and Claiborne as my top 4 CBs so far. I think this CB class COULD wind up better than this year's class.

[SkinsFanMania]

Hightower pick is a conditional 6th rounder

[VaBeachRedskin]

Janzen Jackson*, FS, Tennessee
Height: 6-0. Weight: 180.
Projected 40 Time: 4.40.
Projected Round (2012): 3-5.
5/30/11: Janzen Jackson mysteriously withdrew from Tennessee in February to deal with personal issues. This undoubtedly hurts his draft stock.


anyone heard about this personal issues?

He was dismissed by Tennessee today. He had returned to the team and school in July and seemed as though he would be getting another chance, but this morning Coach Dooley released the statement kicking him off the team because of his "actions".

[Dro89]

wow what was the reason he left in the first place.

---------- Post added August-24th-2011 at 11:49 AM ----------

also do you guys think its about that time to get a big TE to improve our redzone efficency? Cooley is getting older hes having a few injuries here and there.. I think its about that time we unload him for as much as we can get start Fred and draft a Tall athletic TE like a Jimmy Graham and Gresham.

[VaBeachRedskin]

also do you guys think its about that time to get a big TE to improve our redzone efficency? Cooley is getting older hes having a few injuries here and there.. I think its about that time we unload him for as much as we can get start Fred and draft a Tall athletic TE like a Jimmy Graham and Gresham.

I am a personal fan of having a big TE that is a redzone weapon, which is why I am still a huge fan of Martellus Bennett (who I would have taken over Fred Davis in a heartbeat). He is in the last year of his rookie contract and is still young at 24. If he is made available I would like to see us make a run at him.

College TEs that I like are Dwayne Allen, Orson Charles (love him as a WR/TE tweener ala Vernon Davis), Levine Toilolo, C.J. Fiedorowicz, and Joseph Fauria. I am also very interested in the development of Logan Thomas as I thought he was going to be a big time TE and now we get to see him at QB.

[Dukes and Skins]

What do you all think about Chris Relf from Mississppi State? He looks like a pretty exciting player to me.

I'm with Nick on him as well, right now he's a guy I'm keeping a close eye on, but I do want to see more out of him just like I do with Tannehill. Those are the two so to say unknown guys I'm watching. Unknown in the sense its not one of the highly touted names you hear

[GWinSkins83]

He was dismissed by Tennessee today. He had returned to the team and school in July and seemed as though he would be getting another chance, but this morning Coach Dooley released the statement kicking him off the team because of his "actions".

Fail drug test. If he can get that together I would be all over him in the 4 or 5 round. He has that Eric atheliticism.

[Dukes and Skins]

Fail drug test. If he can get that together I would be all over him in the 4 or 5 round. He has that Eric atheliticism.

In round 4 I'd be doing the same, we've seen Mike take chances on players with a checkered past and someone like Janzen would be an intriguing option no doubt

[ConnSKINS26]

Hightower pick is a conditional 6th rounder

This is good to know, thanks. I had assumed it was a 6th or 7th.

---------- Post added August-24th-2011 at 04:08 PM ----------


wow what was the reason he left in the first place.

---------- Post added August-24th-2011 at 11:49 AM ----------

also do you guys think its about that time to get a big TE to improve our redzone efficency? Cooley is getting older hes having a few injuries here and there.. I think its about that time we unload him for as much as we can get start Fred and draft a Tall athletic TE like a Jimmy Graham and Gresham.

There have been some guys I loved the last two years, but couldn't justify it in my head. I loved Julius Thomas this year, who might be even more raw than Jimmy Graham was/is.

---------- Post added August-24th-2011 at 04:10 PM ----------


I am a personal fan of having a big TE that is a redzone weapon, which is why I am still a huge fan of Martellus Bennett (who I would have taken over Fred Davis in a heartbeat). He is in the last year of his rookie contract and is still young at 24. If he is made available I would like to see us make a run at him.

Bennett has been nothing short of horrible for the Cowboys. Injuries, immaturity and general jackassness, and big problems actually catching the ball. I don't want anything to do with him, honestly, even though I think he could accomplish something somewhere new. But John Phillips was outplaying him by a long shot last preseason before he was done for the season with injury, and the same thing is happening this preseason. Bennett's trash.

[The Tris]

What do you all think about Chris Relf from Mississppi State? He looks like a pretty exciting player to me.

Depends on what you think of Tim Tebow.

[ConnSKINS26]

Don't know where to put this, but if you guys remember this guy from the 2011 draft, you could give me your thoughts. Probably thinking too far ahead here, but:


Johnny Culbreath - T - Lions

The Lions have worked seventh-round pick Johnny Culbreath strictly at offensive tackle in training camp.
A freak athlete for his size at 6'6/322 with a 4.92 forty, Culbreath is being given a look as Jeff Backus' possible eventual replacement. While that's a major long shot, Culbreath has "flashed everything he needs to do to be in the NFL," said coach Jim Schwartz. He'll likely spend 2011 on the practice squad.

Would be nice to steal a guy like that off of the practice squad, if that's where he's put like the blurb suggests. Only issue is having to keep him on the active roster for 3 weeks.

[Dukes and Skins]

Don't know where to put this, but if you guys remember this guy from the 2011 draft, you could give me your thoughts. Probably thinking too far ahead here, but:



Would be nice to steal a guy like that off of the practice squad, if that's where he's put like the blurb suggests. Only issue is having to keep him on the active roster for 3 weeks.

Conn I am interested to see just what the staff thinks of Willie Smith he's shown flashes of being a good solid reserve OT in the NFL, but you also see just how raw he is. Culbreath is interesting but may not be if they feel confident in Smith

[Warpath11]

Conn I am interested to see just what the staff thinks of Willie Smith he's shown flashes of being a good solid reserve OT in the NFL, but you also see just how raw he is. Culbreath is interesting but may not be if they feel confident in Smith

Agreed with D&S here, we have our own Culbreath in Willie Smith. A raw, athletic tackle that you hope can be developed into a decent player in this league.

[earl]

guys i want to watch this year

trent richardson (best back in the country)
alson jeffries (best WR in the country)
marcus latimore (best young back in the country)
dre kirkpatrick (breakout year for the CB)
donta hightower (perfect fit for our 3-4... elite talent coming off injury, should be elite again this year)
blackman (most productive WR last year)
broyles (will likely be the most productive this year)
denard robinson ( most electrifying player)
Barrett Jones/ william Vlachos ( 2 Bama interior linemen that i want the skins to target in rounds 2 and 3)

and obviously QB's as potential targets for the skins:
Luck
Barkley
Jones
Keenam

[Dukes and Skins]

Agreed with D&S here, we have our own Culbreath in Willie Smith. A raw, athletic tackle that you hope can be developed into a decent player in this league.

Which I think they feel confident that he can be a solid back up. It had been stated before with Smith by a draft person(I think Bunting) that Smith is just starting to scratch the surface of his potential as a player

[ATLredskin]

People on here are ranting and raving over this Robert Griffin guy. How is he any different than a Joe Webb, Josh Portis, or Josh Johnson...

[stevemcqueen1]

You know it took me a while to realize this but something just clicked for me about the way Mike and Bruce draft.

They haven't drafted a single underclassman.

Knowing that now, it seems obvious that they would have never drafted Blaine Gabbert.

Two trends that pop up with this FO are that they like seniors who are high on their school's career production lists (for the stat driven positions) or who have lots of starts/awards (for the non stat accumulating positions).

Go ahead and start ruling out those underclassman QBs, WRs, and defenders that you all like. Start focusing on the super productive seniors.

[ConnSKINS26]

Wow....not one? You'd think someone would have picked up on that by now! Crazy. I mean, I knew we were veering towards the team captain, blue-collar personalities. But that is eye-opening.

[Malcomb Kelly's Knees]

guys i want to watch this year

trent richardson (best back in the country)
alson jeffries (best WR in the country)
marcus latimore (best young back in the country)
dre kirkpatrick (breakout year for the CB)
donta hightower (perfect fit for our 3-4... elite talent coming off injury, should be elite again this year)
blackman (most productive WR last year)
broyles (will likely be the most productive this year)
denard robinson ( most electrifying player)
Barrett Jones/ william Vlachos ( 2 Bama interior linemen that i want the skins to target in rounds 2 and 3)

and obviously QB's as potential targets for the skins:
Luck
Barkley
Jones
Keenam

Justin Blackmon is a better prospect than Jeffries.

Why isn't anyone talking about Lemicheal James at RB?

[ConnSKINS26]

Justin Blackmon is a better prospect than Jeffries.

Why isn't anyone talking about Lemicheal James at RB?

I think many people assume he isn't built to be a stud RB, and that the scheme helps him out a lot. He'll be an interesting one to break down.

[Dro89]

^^ Lamicheal i was talking loads about last year, but he wasn't coming out. I think we are fine @ RB though.. QB and ILB seem to be the highest on the list SO FAR.

[GWinSkins83]

Justin Blackmon is a better prospect than Jeffries.

Why isn't anyone talking about Lemicheal James at RB?

No Jeffry is the better NFL WR. He will be compared to Calvin Johnson. Blackmon will be compared to Dez Byrant

[The Tris]

Justin Blackmon is a better prospect than Jeffries.

Says you.

And if we are going to talk about him for the next nine months, its AL-shon JEFF-ery (singular)

[Laron Burgundy]

You know it took me a while to realize this but something just clicked for me about the way Mike and Bruce draft.

They haven't drafted a single underclassman.

Knowing that now, it seems obvious that they would have never drafted Blaine Gabbert.

Two trends that pop up with this FO are that they like seniors who are high on their school's career production lists (for the stat driven positions) or who have lots of starts/awards (for the non stat accumulating positions).

Go ahead and start ruling out those underclassman QBs, WRs, and defenders that you all like. Start focusing on the super productive seniors.

I wouldn't be so quick to judge on that. If Aldon Smith or Robert Quinn were still on the board do you think we would have selected Kerrigan still? I doubt that. The draft just unfolded where the best 3-4 olb at our spot was a senior. The next two pass rushers drafted were Sheard and Ayers, both seniors, and they went 5th and 7th in round 2, so quite a drop. Now, in the later rounds the draft picks may have been focused on getting disciplined, mature players, but you pick talent in the first round. Perhaps they have some stipulations for maturity and such, but our FO wouldn't go for a Tannehill over a Luck, Barkley, or Jones simply because he is a senior. Now, if it were between Tannehill and Manuel then I think they'd err on the side of experience over upside, but I believe they balance it out. In the first we've seen them go after O-line (predominantly seniors anyways, best 2 at our spot were seniors) and we got the best OLB on the board (we didn't pass on underclassmen for him), so I think it's way too early to say after two drafts that they target only seniors, especially in the first.

[wilco_holland]

People on here are ranting and raving over this Robert Griffin guy. How is he any different than a Joe Webb, Josh Portis, or Josh Johnson...

He is the third version, so he is a upgraded version of 1 and 2 ;)

The QB's you name are first versions....and people love Griffin the college QB not the pro prospect I think.

[The Tris]

You know it took me a while to realize this but something just clicked for me about the way Mike and Bruce draft.

They haven't drafted a single underclassman.

Knowing that now, it seems obvious that they would have never drafted Blaine Gabbert.

Two trends that pop up with this FO are that they like seniors who are high on their school's career production lists (for the stat driven positions) or who have lots of starts/awards (for the non stat accumulating positions).

Go ahead and start ruling out those underclassman QBs, WRs, and defenders that you all like. Start focusing on the super productive seniors.

Haven't had time to analyze the whole Broncos history, but out of 12 first round picks, 4 were not seniors:

2008: Ryan Clady (RS Jr)
2002: Ashley Lelie (Jr)
2001: Willie Middlebrooks (Jr)
1998: Trevor Pryce (Jr)

Now maybe this is a new trend, I don't disagree with that. However, I don't think he would limit himself solely to seniors, based on his past history.

[Dukes and Skins]

He is the third version, so he is a upgraded version of 1 and 2 ;)

The QB's you name are first versions....and people love Griffin the college QB not the pro prospect I think.

No people do love Griffin for the pro prospect ability. He's an exciting player to watch in college, but people feel that he can make the transition to QB in the NFL

[GWinSkins83]

I think many people assume he isn't built to be a stud RB, and that the scheme helps him out a lot. He'll be an interesting one to break down.
I think he is a stud and Orengon runs a ZBS. So he would know this running system. He also breaks alot of arm tackles. I watched some film and its hard to bring him down and its not just his elusivenist.

---------- Post added August-25th-2011 at 06:54 PM ----------


He is the third version, so he is a upgraded version of 1 and 2 ;)

The QB's you name are first versions....and people love Griffin the college QB not the pro prospect I think.
Griffin does make NFL reads though.

[Dukes and Skins]

I think he is a stud and Orengon runs a ZBS. So he would know this running system. He also breaks alot of arm tackles. I watched some film and its hard to bring him down and its not just his elusivenist.

---------- Post added August-25th-2011 at 06:54 PM ----------


Griffin does make NFL reads though.

Yep Griffin does make the reads you want to see. Its a spread offense but when he's sitting back there making the reads, then decides to take off or not

[stevemcqueen1]

Haven't had time to analyze the whole Broncos history, but out of 12 first round picks, 4 were not seniors:

2008: Ryan Clady (RS Jr)
2002: Ashley Lelie (Jr)
2001: Willie Middlebrooks (Jr)
1998: Trevor Pryce (Jr)

Now maybe this is a new trend, I don't disagree with that. However, I don't think he would limit himself solely to seniors, based on his past history.

I don't think they see it as a limitation at all. I think they see it as a preference.

18 picks approaches three full drafts. That's enough to point to a trend.

Preferring to draft senior offensive linemen is no big deal since almost all OL are seniors. But drafting so many senior skill position players is rare.

Also think about their QB preferences--multi-year veterans with at least five years of NFL experience. Experience and maturity seems to be the most important operative qualities our FO searches for.

Put it this way, I wouldn't bet on Mike and Bruce taking an underclassman in the class until they actually do. I've noticed that some really good coaches who are heavily involved in the drafting process often prefer to draft seniors and award winners. I wouldn't totally rule out Shanahan and Allen from drafting a super talented underclassman so long as the guy has a long history of starts and production in college. But I certainly wouldn't expect them to draft the talented underclassman over the productive senior who might even be marginally less talented.

@LaronBurgundy - I think there was pretty much no chance we'd have drafted Robert Quinn. He had very minimal experience and production, two qualities that our FO seems to value highly.

Beyond that, we had an opportunity to draft him at ten and we didn't. He certainly wouldn't have been a reach at that selection according to the general draftnik consensus. If we valued him significantly more than Kerrigan, then we would have either drafted him or ten or even considered trying to trade up for him.

I actually don't think we valued him more than Kerrigan. Kerrigan fits a profile we like--incredibly productive senior who tied his school record for career sacks and set the NCAA record for fumbles forced, first team All-American, runner up for the Hendricks award, Big 10 DPOY, etc. Quinn had none of that...

Consider the other skill position players we drafted too: Royster is Penn St.'s career rushing leader, Hankerson is Miami's career reception yards leader, Helu top five for career rushing at Nebraska Niles Paul top five in career receiving yards at Nebraska, Aldrick Robinson second in career receiving yards at SMU, and so on and so forth.

Another thing to look for is guys who get conference and national academic first team awards since a lot of our draft picks received that honor.

You know how the Raiders shill for speed? That's their type and their system values it heavily.

Smart, experienced, productive is our type. I'm perfectly fine with that. Shanahan must have picked that up from studying the Patriots because that's exactly the type of player they've been drafting for a decade and it works for them.

[Dro89]

we need to replace rocky.. its signed sealed and delivered..

[The Tris]

we need to replace rocky.. its signed sealed and delivered..

I'm hoping its the lockout that has slowed Riley, and not a lack of starting ability.

But I agree. With the 2nd ILB unsettled and Fletchs age, I don't see how people don't see this as one of our biggest weaknesses.

[Dukes and Skins]

I'm hoping its the lockout that has slowed Riley, and not a lack of starting ability.

But I agree. With the 2nd ILB unsettled and Fletchs age, I don't see how people don't see this as one of our biggest weaknesses.

I think Haslett had mentioned the other day that the lockout affected Riley. Still think he ends up starting by the end of the season

[stevemcqueen1]

Actually, come to think of it, our most successful draft picks the past several years have all been productive, award winning seniors for the most part. Joe Gibbs favored them over underclassmen too.

Look at our meager drafts and you see that the guys who actually stuck for at least the duration of their rookie deals were those types of players: Brian Orakpo, LaRon Landry, Reed Doughty, Kevin Barnes, Fred Davis, HB Blades, Chris Cooley, Carlos Rogers, Rocky McIntosh, Kedric Golston, Jason Campbell, etc.

A lot of the high profile guys that flamed out were underclassmen like Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly.

When you think about it, taking underclassmen kind of sucks. Especially outside the top 10-15 picks when their talent advantage is no longer overwhelming. It hasn't really worked for us in a long time.

I don't think we'll draft Matt Barkley or Landry Jones if they declare and are available to us when we draft. It'd also be somewhat surprising if we draft someone like Manti Teo, Vontaze Burfict, or Luke Kuechly if they declare (most of them won't). And you should probably expect us to target the senior DBs like Minnifield, Dennard, or Jenkins over the highly touted underclassmen like Dre Kirkpatrick, Morris Claiborne, Stephen Gilmore, and Cliff Harris.

I also think there is 0% chance we spend a first round pick on an underclassman WR or RB no matter who is available.

If I had to guess right now, I'd say we'll end up drafting someone like Courtney Upshaw, Levy Adcock, or even Andrew Datko if they're available in the first.

[Goingforburgundy]

We need some 3-5 rounder O line men

[GWinSkins83]

Yep Griffin does make the reads you want to see. Its a spread offense but when he's sitting back there making the reads, then decides to take off or not
\I see wht u did there:ols:

[Dukes and Skins]

We need some 3-5 rounder O line men

Nate Potter as a G is still an intriguing option to me especially if you can get him in round 3

[The Tris]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/15484006/pack-your-bags-a-scouts-fall-football-itinerary


*
Andrew Luck can expect lots of scouts to be in attendance when his Cardinal take on a quality opponent like USC. (Getty Images) *
NFL general managers would love to see every one of the top 100 prospects in person during a college football season.

Watching tape is helpful. It gives an evaluator the ability to watch plays repeatedly. But seeing a player "on the hoof" during the game and in practice affords a far better indicator of the player from his physique and interaction with teammates and coaches.

But general managers obviously can't be in two places at once.

That forces all decision-makers to carefully craft a fall schedule that is assembled with matchups that not only allow them to see the best players, but also against the best competition possible, in mind.

Teams looking at Stanford quarterback Andrew Luck as the top overall pick, for example, are more interested in seeing his performances on the road against tough defenses -- Southern Cal or Arizona -- than what's likely to be a huge stat day against San Jose State opening weekend.

The following potential weekly schedule for a general manager during the 2011 college football season includes many of the year's top games, but also tries to minimize duplication in order to see as many of the top prospects as possible.

It's like a big puzzle which, when complete, presents the best possible picture of the 2012 draft class.

Boise State vs. Georgia (Atlanta), Sept. 3

Since this West vs. Southeast matchup kicks off at the same time as the other big interregional contest to be held at Cowboys Stadium in Arlington (Oregon vs. LSU), scouts have a tough decision.

Watching undersized but accurate and productive Boise quarterback Kellen Moore take on an SEC defense might be too interesting to ignore. Georgia's excellent offensive line includes top prospects at left tackle (Cordy Glenn) and center (Ben Jones), while the Broncos bring active Billy Winn and up-and-comer Tyrone Crawford to the party.

Arizona at Oklahoma State, Sept. 8

Oklahoma State, particularly with soon-to-be 28 year-old quarterback Brandon Weeden trying to find talented junior receiver Justin Blackmon using the strong arm he honed during his days in baseball's minor leagues, should put up plenty of points again.

The Wildcats lost three defensive ends to the draft last year, so OSU right tackle Levy Adcock should have an advantage, but Weeden must be wary of experienced Arizona corners Trevin Wade and Robert Golden. The Wildcats also have a potentially formidable combination of quarterback Nick Foles to receiver Juron Criner; Cowboys safeties Markelle Martin and Johnny Thomas must make plays for the team to succeed.

Oklahoma at Florida State, Sept. 17

This game turned out to be a laugher in Norman last year, with the Sooners winning 47-17. New FSU quarterback, the athletic junior E.J. Manuel, got a chance to play against Bob Stoops' defense last year, however, so he'll have a fair chance to succeed if his receivers and offensive line (including top tackle prospects LT Andrew Datko and RT Zebrie Sanders) do their jobs.

Oklahoma's prototypically-sized pocket passer, junior Landry Jones, also gets another shot at ripping past the Seminoles' defense, though junior defensive end Brandon Jenkins will test an unproven Sooners' offensive line. Look for Jones to unload quickly, therefore, to the ultra-productive Ryan Broyles and other talented receivers.

Arkansas at Alabama, September 24th

Ryan Mallett left for the NFL, affording Arkansas quarterback Tyler Wilson his chance against a star-studded, Nick Saban-coached Alabama defense. Losing junior running back Knile Davis to a season-ending left ankle injury makes Wilson's life more difficult, he still has one of the deepest receiving corps in the country at his disposal. Greg Childs returns from a knee injury, and Joe Adams, Jarius Wright, and junior Cobi Hamilton will force the Tide's top corner Dre Kirkpatrick (junior) and safeties Mark Barron and Robert Lester (junior) to make plays in the secondary.

The Hogs' defense is not quite as talented as 'Bama's, but one match-up to watch is when the Tide has the ball is defensive end Jake Bequette taking on either junior left tackle Barrett Jones or sophomore right tackle D.J. Fluker -- both potential future first round picks. Arkansas defenders linebacker Jerry Franklin and safety Tramain Thomas are also on NFL scouts' radars.

Nebraska at Wisconsin, October 1

This game already feels like a long-time rivalry even though the Cornhuskers will be playing their first Big Ten schedule in 2011 and the two teams haven't played since 1974. But GMs are less interested in the program similarities and the Saturday Night atmosphere at Camp Randall than they are the intriguing prospect match-ups -- especially when the Badgers have the ball.

The Huskers' defensive line includes the high-motor, underrated athletic Jared Crick and juniors Baker Steinkuhler -- yes, another one -- and Cameron Meredith -- but Wisconsin's line includes future NFL players at all five spots including seniors guard Kevin Zeitler and tackle Josh Oglesby on the right side. All-American linebacker Lavonte David will track down UW's stable of running backs, while undersized press corner Alfonzo Dennard will earn his first round grade against Badgers receiver Nick Toon, as long as the son of former long-time NFL receiver Al Toon has made connections with N.C. State transfer quarterback Russell Wilson.

*
The NFL combine is an easy way to scout, but its no replacement for seeing players in game situations. (Getty Images) *Boston College at Clemson, October 8
The Red River Rivalry between Texas and Oklahoma might be the "sexy" matchup of the weekend in terms of the national college football radar. But scouts should make the effort to see the stacked Clemson front four taking on an annually solid BC O-line. Junior tackles John Wetzel (taking over for first round pick Anthony Castonzo on the left side) and Emmett Cleary will have their hands full with seniors Andre Branch and Kourtnei Brown, as well as junior Malliciah Goodman. Tigers tackle Brandon Thompson has the strength, hands, and agility to be a first round pick, so BC guard Nathan Richman and center Mark Spinney must be stout to make room for running back Montel Harris (assuming his scoped left knee is healthy by then).

Boston College's top defenders, tackle Kaleb Ramsey, middle linebacker Luke Kuechly (junior) and corner/safety prospect Donnie Fletcher also draw tough assignments in slowing down Clemson's junior duo of speedy running back Andre Ellington and top tight end prospect Dwayne Allen.

Miami (Fla.) at North Carolina, October 15th

These programs have provided the worst off-field stories the past two years, but their talent level is strong enough to still earn the respect of NFL scouts. The Tar Heels' defensive line is loaded again, with top five overall prospect Quinton Coples and up-and-coming Donte Paige-Moss taking on young but huge (they average 6-6, 324 lbs) 'Canes tackles. Tackle Tydreke Powell also has a chance to prove himself against massive junior All-ACC guard Brandon Washington. Miami running backs Lamar Miller (redshirt sophomore) and Mike James (junior) must keep an eye out for speedy UNC linebackers Zach Brown and Kevin Reddick (junior).

Miami also has plenty of talent on the defensive line, with Micanor Regis joining juniors Marcus Forston, Oliver Vernon and Adewale Ojomo as potential impact playmakers. Active linebacker Sean Spence and junior strong safety Ray Ray Armstrong will also try to stop Carolina backs Ryan Houston and fullback Davon Ramsay from getting loose.

Southern Cal at Notre Dame, October 22

The game might have lost luster in recent years, but there is still quite a bit of talent on the field when the Irish host the Trojans -- especially at the skill positions. USC junior quarterback Matt Barkley and Notre Dame's junior passer, Dayne Crist, both have futures in the NFL. Barkley's left tackle, Matt Kalil, also should be a high pick if he declares this year. Scouts will have to wait at least another year before super sophomore Trojans receiver Robert Woods is available to them, but Notre Dame's big-bodied pass-catcher Michael Floyd needs to build on his Sun Bowl MVP performance to make scouts forget his alcohol-related offenses.

Both defenses have fair prospects, as well. Notre Dame senior defensive backs Harrison Smith, Robert Blanton and Gary Gray joining junior linebacker Manti Te'o will try to make plays against Barkley for the Irish, while USC junior defensive ends Wes Horton and Nick Perry, tackle Christian Tupou, and junior free safety T.J. McDonald will be tracking Crist in this nationally-televised match-up.

Michigan State at Nebraska, October 29

College quarterbacks face few tougher tests than the Bo Pelini-coached Blackshirts. Michigan State's Kirk Cousins is one of the top senior prospects at the position, and he'll need to prove his accuracy, mobility and poise against Crick, Dennard, and the rest of the squad noted in Nebraska's earlier match-up against Wisconsin.

Cousins has two solid seniors receivers to throw to, however, in all-purpose threat Keshawn Martin and strong B.J. Cunningham, as well as receiving tight ends in Brian Linthicum and Garrett Celek. The Spartans also have a potential star on defense in junior tackle Jerel Worthy, who faces an inexperienced NU interior offensive line.

LSU at Alabama, November 5

The Tigers and Tide lead one of the strongest weekly schedules of the season, with Texas A&M also travelling to Oklahoma and Arkansas hosting South Carolina. But the two top teams of the SEC West have literally dozens of future NFL players on their rosters, so scouts will flock to Tuscaloosa for this one.

Alabama junior running back Trent Richardson, the top prospect in this game, must avoid a talented but young LSU front seven led by linebackers Stefoin Francois, Karnell Hatcher (who is switching from safety), and Ryan Baker. No matter who is throwing the ball for Alabama, there will be great battles on the outside between lanky LSU junior corner Morris Claiborne, his smallish but tough sophomore teammate Tyrann Mathieu and Tide's solid senior receivers Marquis Maze and Darius Hanks.

Oregon at Stanford, November 12

Oregon's offense may be a bigger opponent for everyone's number one prospect, Stanford quarterback Andrew Luck, than the Ducks' defense. He may need to lead his team to 50 or more points, as the Cardinal defense failed to stop the Ducks in a 52-31 loss -- their only defeat of the season. He'll need his possible first round value offensive lineman, juniors left tackle Jonathan Martin and right guard David DeCastro, receiver Chris Owusu and tight ends Coby Fleener and Zach Ertz (sophomore) to all make plays. Among those defending all those weapons for Oregon will be junior playmaking corner Cliff Harris and linebackers Josh Kaddu and Eddie Pleasant.

Of course, Oregon juniors quarterback Darron Thomas and small-but-explosive running back LaMichael James will once again test the Cardinal's defensive leaders, junior linebackers Shayne Skov and Chase Thomas. Thomas makes plays with his arm to big receiver Lavasier Tuinei and tight end David Paulson, as well as on the run.

Penn State at Ohio State, November 19

The Buckeyes won't have most of their top players until the sixth game of the year, and they need to give them a couple of games to get back into a playing mentality. Running back Dan "Boom" Herron, left tackle Mike Adams, and receiver DeVier Posey should all have their "game legs" by the time they host the Nittany Lions.

Adams and highly-rated center Mike Brewster attempt to move PSU's Jack Crawford and Devon Still, respectively, so Herron can make hay when the Buckeyes have the ball. Posey, on the other hand, takes on an underrated corner with NFL size, D'Anton Lynn, on the outside.

Texas at Texas A&M, November 24 (Thurs)

This could be the first time in a couple of decades that scouts will be paying significantly more attention to prospects wearing maroon in this fierce in-state rivalry than those wearing burnt orange. A&M's offensive triple threat of quarterback Ryan Tannehill, running back Cyrus Gray and receiver Jeff Fuller should get a lot of attention this season.

Texas' inexperienced corner group will be less green by the time they face Fuller, and Gray will have to avoid a Longhorns front seven with potential breakout players tackle Kheeston Randall and junior end Alex Okafor and solid linebackers Emmanuel Acho and Keenan Robinson. Scouts can't hit the restroom when the Aggies' defense is on the field, however, as corners Coryell Judie (also a good returner) and Terrence Frederick, defensive lineman Tony Jerod-Eddie have pro talent. Super soph linebacker Damontre Moore is also a potential star filling in for 2011 number two overall pick Von Miller.

SEC Championship Game, December 3

The Big Ten holds its first conference championship in Indianapolis on this day, the winner of the ACC will be determined in Charlotte, and Bedlam reigns when Oklahoma travels to Stillwater to take on Oklahoma State. But whether it's LSU or Alabama making it out of the SEC West or South Carolina or Georgia coming out of the East, scouts will likely head to Atlanta to check out the top teams in the country's most talented conference.

Steve Spurrier's Gamecocks haven't been included anywhere on this schedule, but GMs would love to see quarterback Stephen Garcia throwing to 6-foot-4, 230-pound junior receiver Alshon Jeffery against a top defense for the conference championship. South Carolina also has top front seven defenders in Devin Taylor (junior), Travian Robertson, and Melvin Ingram, as well as secondary prospects Stephon Gilmore (junior), Akeem Auguste and Antonio Allen.

Chad Reuter is Senior Analyst for NFLDraftScout.com, distributed by The Sports Xchange.

[Dro89]

i think we need to target hightower in 2nd round.. we need a ILB quick. Te'o, Burfict (who i think will benefit from Fletcher) would be good picks if our QB situation is ok this year.. but i think QB is higher than ILB.

[stevemcqueen1]

I'm pretty interested in Courtney Upshaw. I think he could end up being the best ILB in this class when all is said and done.

I actually don't think Teo or Kuechly declare--I think both are better than Upshaw.

Upshaw was consistently more impressive to me last season than Hightower and Burfict were.

I hope Travis Lewis gets healthy soon because I'd love to watch him play this year.

[The Tris]

Aaron Aloysius' first mock: http://draftbreakdown.com/new-mock

I'm not a fan of mocks (especially this early), but our boy AA deserves the page views.

[Dukes and Skins]

Aaron Aloysius' first mock: http://draftbreakdown.com/new-mock

I'm not a fan of mocks (especially this early), but our boy AA deserves the page views.

Even though I dont see us drafting at #8, I have no problem taking Landry Jones there

[Dro89]

do you guys think we entertain a trade for a DE? or do we look to acquire another in 2012.

[stevemcqueen1]

I don't think we'll pick that high, nor do I think Landry Jones and Matt Barkley are likely to declare. Of course, I thought there was no way Gabbert would declare until we found out Luck decided to return to school.

Tris I know you have keen observations on SEC prospects, what do you think about Courtney Upshaw as a prospect? What do you think about the fact that CBS has him ranked as their top ILB prospect for the class?

I like Upshaw but he'd be a bit unique as an NFL ILB to say the least. From what I saw, a lot of his best play came at the strong side DE spot in Alabama's four man fronts.

I wonder what CBS sees that makes them project him as an ILB instead of a more traditional 3-4 OLB?

That said, the guy is obviously very versatile and before his injury and after it healed, he was extremely disruptive. His background as a DE shouldn't necessarily remove him from consideration at ILB. Upshaw gives us a third outstanding pass rushing LB plus talented blitzers in the secondary. Offenses would have to move to a quick strike over the middle offense and if they started to rely on that we could have Atogwe or Landry or even Fletcher squat on that zone. Plus Upshaw is a good run defender with active hands and is explosive making plays off his frame. He hits freaking hard too when he gets an unsuspecting ball carrier and he's so big and strong that he gets those arm bars and shoe string tackles with regularity.

One base personnel package that I'd scheme up to get Orakpo, Kerrigan, and Upshaw on the field together is Kerrigan on the line at a 7 technique, Orakpo at a 9 technique, and Upshaw blitzing the B gap from the stack. Orakpo and Upshaw could probably even be swapped. Upshaw gives your blitz some sharp teeth because he'd be so much more skilled a passrusher than most ILBs. He can be your best stunting option with a guy like Stephen Bowen. And he can stack up and muscle with interior offensive linemen when they run the ball--let London Fletcher get 180 tackles that season.

That said, I see some problems with starting Upshaw inside. I understand that ILB projection is probably because he's only 6'2, and he's got a better chance holding ground against interior linemen. But there aren't many 265 ILBs out there. He's almost too big and you've got to figure that the coverage assigments in the NFL will be hard for him. Because of that, I bet Upshaw won't be drafted until the late first or early second round at the absolute earliest.

London is a terrific coverage MLB, but he's not going to be here forever. We would probably need to find a really skillfull coverage linebacker to help Upshaw inside to make this work. Maybe even find one as soon as 2013.

Luke Kuechly or Manti Teo in the first in 2013? How ****ing Naughty would our defensive front be then? Especially if we got Upshaw in the second round and someone like Alameda Ta'amu in the first this year.

[Dukes and Skins]

do you guys think we entertain a trade for a DE? or do we look to acquire another in 2012.

I dont think we look for a DE, just roll with what we have until 2012 when Jenkins is back

[Dro89]

wow he had Lamichael james to the steelers i dont see that fit at all..

[stevemcqueen1]

do you guys think we entertain a trade for a DE? or do we look to acquire another in 2012.

I don't think we'll trade for one. I can't imagine we'd have hinged our plans around a rookie, no matter how good he looked early on.

I think the slack at DE will be taken up by Cofield/Kerrigan/Jackson, etc. depending on the leverage/situation.

We already had two starting caliber ends in Carriker and Bowen, IMO. We'll look for depth, so why not give Phil Daniels a contract? We'd all love to see him back here.

How about trade Ryan Torain for Vonnie Holliday and our 6th rounder back LOL!

[Dukes and Skins]

wow he had Lamichael james to the steelers i dont see that fit at all..

it makes a lot of sense though as a 3rd down type if you really think about it Dro

[Dro89]

it makes a lot of sense though as a 3rd down type if you really think about it Dro

i just dont think him as a small speedy back would be a good fit in the power running scheme.. plus i think they would go Oline/Defense b4 they go RB.. Dwyer and Mendy are a good enough combo.

[Dukes and Skins]

i just dont think him as a small speedy back would be a good fit in the power running scheme.. plus i think they would go Oline/Defense b4 they go RB.. Dwyer and Mendy are a good enough combo.

He would be a 3rd down guy who comes in on passing downs. Yes its not ideal given his size, but its also Pittsburgh and knowing Pitt we'll end up watching them draft another 3-4 DE

[Dro89]

He would be a 3rd down guy who comes in on passing downs. Yes its not ideal given his size, but its also Pittsburgh and knowing Pitt we'll end up watching them draft another 3-4 DE

i couldn't see them actually using a 1st round pick on a 3rd down guy..but i see what your saying..


also i like what Steve said give Daniels the contract to come back..


do you guys get a eerie feeling that were going to trade someone right before the season... and i have a feeling its cooley (i know ive been on this for to long), but fred has looked ok in my book.

[Dukes and Skins]

i couldn't see them actually using a 1st round pick on a 3rd down guy..but i see what your saying..


also i like what Steve said give Daniels the contract to come back..


do you guys get a eerie feeling that were going to trade someone right before the season... and i have a feeling its cooley (i know ive been on this for to long), but fred has looked ok in my book.

I dont see us trading Cooley and if they do I'll be very surprised that it happens

[Dro89]

I dont see us trading Cooley and if they do I'll be very surprised that it happens

idk why i feel it, but they keep hiunting at trades (could be just smoke) and cooley hasn't played yet i don't think (could be injury or could be wanting to see what the other TEs could do), but hey i could and probably am over reading the situation..




SN: did you guys see Boise St. Pro Combat Jerseys?

http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/boise-nike-football-uniform.jpg
http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/boise-state-football-helmet.jpg
http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/boise-state-2011-uniform.jpg
http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/boise-state-broncos-football.jpg

[Dukes and Skins]

Dro biggest thing though is this man, Cooley has little trade value with an injury why would they trade him when his value is extremely low?

[Dro89]

Dro biggest thing though is this man, Cooley has little trade value with an injury why would they trade him when his value is extremely low?

was his injury legit injury? i honestly never heard of the injury until i didnt see him start i think week1 or 2 i cant remember.

---------- Post added August-26th-2011 at 12:06 PM ----------

Devon Still, DE/DT, Penn State
Height: 6-5. Weight: 311.
Projected 40 Time: 5.03.
Projected Round (2012): 3-4.

ima watch for this kid this year.. if we have multiple 3rd n 4th.

[Dukes and Skins]

was his injury legit injury? i honestly never heard of the injury until i didnt see him start i think week1 or 2 i cant remember.

---------- Post added August-26th-2011 at 12:06 PM ----------

Devon Still, DE/DT, Penn State
Height: 6-5. Weight: 311.
Projected 40 Time: 5.03.
Projected Round (2012): 3-4.

ima watch for this kid this year.. if we have multiple 3rd n 4th.

Cooley has had problems with his knee, If I'm another GM Dro, i'm going to buy low aka I'm talking 5th round pick. Thats not worth the price of giving up one our your best players

[stevemcqueen1]

How do you all rank the top ILBs for 2012. I'm working on my ranking now. I'm going to do one list of seniors and one list of Seniors + underclassmen.

[GWinSkins83]

I dont care who we get next draft aslong as we get Janoris Jenkins. We need him and he would put our defense over the top.

[stevemcqueen1]

I don't know about Jenkins. We'll see where he's at after the transfer. He's also more of a single coverage guy and I'd feel uncomfortable drafting someone who got kicked off his team in the first or second round.

Cornerback isn't a pressing need either. We've got some good young corners on the roster. I'd be looking in the middle rounds for steals if I could. Maybe someone like Coryell Judie or Omar Bolden could be available in that range.

[GWinSkins83]

I don't know about Jenkins. We'll see where he's at after the transfer. He's also more of a single coverage guy and I'd feel uncomfortable drafting someone who got kicked off his team in the first or second round.

Cornerback isn't a pressing need either. We've got some good young corners on the roster. I'd be looking in the middle rounds for steals if I could. Maybe someone like Coryell Judie or Omar Bolden could be available in that range.

Man you see how the Jets play. Revis makes that happen. Jenkins can be that to a tee. Go look at his film. He goes head up with Jones, Green, and Jeffery. Im sorry but you are wrong he smoked weed and got caught. I dont care about that yet until he gets into the NFL. I dont want no middle round steal I want someone who can have a chance vs Dez Byrant, Miles Austin, Nicks, DeShawn Jackson, Calvin Johnson, and other ones. We dont have that. I just think if we had that we would be getting beat on long passes like the Baltimore game or if Ben had connected with Wallace the first game. That is a problem and it will get exposed this year.

[stevemcqueen1]

Lots of college players smoke weed. Not a lot of them get kicked off their teams. It's a problem whether you think so or not.

You're overrating his performance against Julio Jones and A.J. Green instead of looking at the total skill set and body of work. He's not a physical player and struggles with ball carriers in the open field, and he's best in off single coverage. He's going to have to play zones and be physical here.

He's not a can't miss type prospect that you ignore the off the field stuff for. This is a good CB class as a whole. There are plenty of prospects out there that will work without having to take on a potential headache like Jenkins.

CB isn't a big need right now, and you're overrating the importance and scheme impact of CBs anyway. Darrelle Revis gets beat and gives up TDs too. Corners cycle between good and subpar years from season to season. If you want to make sure you get good secondary play on a consistent basis then focus on building the defensive front--stopping the run and getting regular pressure so you're defense is always playing with good leverage. Skillful, fast, 5'10 190 pound guys are a dime a dozen in the NFL.

---------- Post added August-27th-2011 at 10:45 PM ----------

Here's my Senior ILB top 5:

1.) Courtney Upshaw
2.) Travis Lewis
3.) Jerry Franklin
4.) Tank Carder
5.) Zach Brown

It's a huge drop in quality after Upshaw and Lewis for me. I think those two have legit impact potential as linebackers in most schemes. They're very different players. Think Jerrod Mayo for Lewis and Adalius Thomas for Upshaw.

Franklin is decent but he doesn't really stand out to me. Carder has nice instincts but seems a bit physically limited. Zach Brown doesn't have experience and has underdeveloped instincts but he's an elite athlete so you have to do your diligence with him.

I would be really happy with either Lewis or Upshaw but Upshaw seems like the superior weapon to me. He gives you so much versatility in your pressure sets and he'd be an elite run defender inside. They actually compliment each other's skill sets really well when you think about it. Lewis is going to be a 150 tackles a season guy. His instincts are amazing and he's blazing fast with huge range. I see him as a potential heir for London Fletcher.

[GWinSkins83]

Lots of college players smoke weed. Not a lot of them get kicked off their teams. It's a problem whether you think so or not.

You're overrating his performance against Julio Jones and A.J. Green instead of looking at the total skill set and body of work. He's not a physical player and struggles with ball carriers in the open field, and he's best in off single coverage. He's going to have to play zones and be physical here.

He's not a can't miss type prospect that you ignore the off the field stuff for. This is a good CB class as a whole. There are plenty of prospects out there that will work without having to take on a potential headache like Jenkins.

CB isn't a big need right now, and you're overrating the importance and scheme impact of CBs anyway. Darrelle Revis gets beat and gives up TDs too. Corners cycle between good and subpar years from season to season. If you want to make sure you get good secondary play on a consistent basis then focus on building the defensive front--stopping the run and getting regular pressure so you're defense is always playing with good leverage. Skillful, fast, 5'10 190 pound guys are a dime a dozen in the NFL.

You dont look at film. You say he's not physical? What I've seen him take on Trent Richardson and tackle him. You say he can only play off but you are wrong. Go look at the film he jams Julio Jones and re routes him. He did that to Green and Jeffery. Im not overrating his preformance when he did to not one but all of them. They as a whole probably adverage like 90 yards a game. They only get 50 yards is go. What gets me is you say he is off coverage when I know for sure I seen him up close to the line and jam bigger players than him and stay hip to hip with them going down the field. I want to ask you what film you seen for you come up with those statements. How many TDs he give up a year to D Hall? How many yards? How is not giving up bombs and junks of yards overrating? Yeah I know stoping the run is important but when Andre Johnson caught that ball last year what down and what distant was is? Wont is like 3rd or 4th down and long? Didnt the run defense do its job then? Im sorry but if you can get Janoris Jenkins in the second I say yea. Cause no matter what We have no CB that cover Mile Austin or Dez Byrant, No one who cover Nicks, and no one who can cover any other stud wr in the league. Your funny if you think that CB is the easiest position to play and produces.

[stevemcqueen1]

You dont look at film. You say he's not physical? What I've seen him take on Trent Richardson and tackle him. You say he can only play off but you are wrong. Go look at the film he jams Julio Jones and re routes him. He did that to Green and Jeffery. Im not overrating his preformance when he did to not one but all of them. They as a whole probably adverage like 90 yards a game. They only get 50 yards is go. What gets me is you say he is off coverage when I know for sure I seen him up close to the line and jam bigger players than him and stay hip to hip with them going down the field. I want to ask you what film you seen for you come up with those statements. How many TDs he give up a year to D Hall? How many yards? How is not giving up bombs and junks of yards overrating? Yeah I know stoping the run is important but when Andre Johnson caught that ball last year what down and what distant was is? Wont is like 3rd or 4th down and long? Didnt the run defense do its job then? Im sorry but if you can get Janoris Jenkins in the second I say yea. Cause no matter what We have no CB that cover Mile Austin or Dez Byrant, No one who cover Nicks, and no one who can cover any other stud wr in the league. Your funny if you think that CB is the easiest position to play and produces.

I'm sorry, Mr. Jenkins, I didn't realize I was talking to Janoris's father.

You like to put words in people's mouths don't you?

1.) I never said he couldn't play on the line. I said that his best coverage is off single coverage. That's true. That's the type of coverage that Florida likes to run. He can jam guys at the line (although this is the college level we're talking about), but he's most comfortable playing off the ball and reading patterns.

The off coverage isn't an issue for me or our defense at all. Most of our coverages are off zone pattern reads. The man coverage is where the scheme incompatibility complaint came from. Our corners just don't do a lot of man. He likes to run with receivers and the majority of his coverages here aren't going to involve that.

2.) I never said CB was the easiest position to play. It's not. I said it's one of the most common positions to find NFL caliber talent in just about every draft class. That's true. Year in and year out it's always among the most drafted positions. Corners also have volatile career trajectories. Even the best ones are just as likely to follow up brilliant seasons with subpar ones. We've seen that from both Nnamdi Asomugha, Champ Bailey, and Darrelle Revis in the past four years. If you want consistent excellent production, spend your high picks on front seven players and pass rushers. They're harder to find and they produce at a more consistent rate. It's what the Steelers and Ravens have done for most of the decade and they always have dominant defenses.

3.) My physicality complaint on Jenkins didn't come from his ability to press since I don't think pressing is a huge part of our scheme. It stemmed from the fact that the guy just isn't a great open field tackler and his smallish size suggests it's always going to be a concern. He's not like Darrelle Revis in build--Revis is a big corner. He's more like Deangelo Hall, and Hall is actually a pretty smart and skilled tackler. Jenkins is also going to have to blitz here too.

I don't dislike Jenkins's and think he probably deserves a first round grade given his combination of read and react ability and rare ball skills. I definitely don't like the fact that he got kicked out of Florida and has to go play Division II and seeing as how he's not the cleanest fit, corner isn't a pressing need, and there are a lot of other, cleaner CB prospects in this class. He's not the type of player we've gone for in the past two drafts.

Also I think it's a bit ironic that you are touting him as a sort of anti-Hall shutdown corner when he's got a lot of the same flaws as Deangelo and reminds me of him in some ways. He's an extremely aggressive corner susceptible to deep plays because he guesses a lot, he does give up touchdowns.

I see you're new here so I'll give you a tip. The "you don't watch games" argument gets thrown around too often in here by new contributors who encounter someone who disagrees with them. It's tiresome. Stick around and you'll realize that every regular contributor in here, myself include, watches a ton of games every week and has a pretty wide span of film to form their opinions from.

[TheREALJBird]

As a Canes fan I'm wondering how the booster deal is going to effect some of the players draft stock that will be coming out this year. I know before this Marcus Forston would probably be a 1st round pick, wondering if this will impact that.

[GWinSkins83]

I'm sorry, Mr. Jenkins, I didn't realize I was talking to Janoris's father.

You like to put words in people's mouths don't you?

1.) I never said he couldn't play on the line. I said that his best coverage is off single coverage. That's true. That's the type of coverage that Florida likes to run. He can jam guys at the line (although this is the college level we're talking about), but he's most comfortable playing off the ball and reading patterns.

The off coverage isn't an issue for me or our defense at all. Most of our coverages are off zone pattern reads. The man coverage is where the scheme incompatibility complaint came from. Our corners just don't do a lot of man. He likes to run with receivers and the majority of his coverages here aren't going to involve that.

2.) I never said CB was the easiest position to play. It's not. I said it's one of the most common positions to find NFL caliber talent in just about every draft class. That's true. Year in and year out it's always among the most drafted positions. Corners also have volatile career trajectories. Even the best ones are just as likely to follow up brilliant seasons with subpar ones. We've seen that from both Nnamdi Asomugha, Champ Bailey, and Darrelle Revis in the past four years. If you want consistent excellent production, spend your high picks on front seven players and pass rushers. They're harder to find and they produce at a more consistent rate. It's what the Steelers and Ravens have done for most of the decade and they always have dominant defenses.

3.) My physicality complaint on Jenkins didn't come from his ability to press since I don't think pressing is a huge part of our scheme. It stemmed from the fact that the guy just isn't a great open field tackler and his smallish size suggests it's always going to be a concern. He's not like Darrelle Revis in build--Revis is a big corner. He's more like Deangelo Hall, and Hall is actually a pretty smart and skilled tackler. Jenkins is also going to have to blitz here too.

I don't dislike Jenkins's and think he probably deserves a first round grade given his combination of read and react ability and rare ball skills. I definitely don't like the fact that he got kicked out of Florida and has to go play Division II and seeing as how he's not the cleanest fit, corner isn't a pressing need, and there are a lot of other, cleaner CB prospects in this class. He's not the type of player we've gone for in the past two drafts.

Also I think it's a bit ironic that you are touting him as a sort of anti-Hall shutdown corner when he's got a lot of the same flaws as Deangelo and reminds me of him in some ways. He's an extremely aggressive corner susceptible to deep plays because he guesses a lot, he does give up touchdowns.

I see you're new here so I'll give you a tip. The "you don't watch games" argument gets thrown around too often in here by new contributors who encounter someone who disagrees with them. It's tiresome. Stick around and you'll realize that every regular contributor in here, myself include, watches a ton of games every week and has a pretty wide span of film to form their opinions from.

First I didnt put words in your mouth you said what you said. Now yes Florida do run an off coverage but that doent mean he doesnt like to play up. Now that right there is trying to tell me what he likes to do. College is different from NFL. But those players he was going against where NFL WR. Wasnt Green touted the best WR prospect since Calvin Johnson and Julio by some was better than Green. And Jeffery will be a top ten pick next year. So that tells me if he hangs with them and pretty much win those matchup he should be able to do that on a NFL level. Next Revis is 5-11 195. That is Jenkin size and Jenkins play bigger than he is. I mean go look at his draft anaylst the anouncers say that in two different games. Hall does not play like Jenkins. Dhall waits and try to lure the QB in a bad decision. Im sorry but you can say you watch film on it but if thats what you get out of watching Jenkins. Then I dont know if you know what you are looking at. You said corners come a dime of dozen. I know thats what you said. But who was the most sought out player in the free agent...a CB. Look its not that many shutdown corners in the NFL and I just think if we had one on this defense will make it that much better. I get the line I do I believe in winning the LOS to win. But it has been plentiy of time that our line has won the first two downs and then on 3rd and long we have blown coverage or just not a guy to stop the go to guy. Our line is not going to beat the oline all the time. This is the NFL oline do get paid too. When has the last time we have had a coverage sack? I mean I see it happen to us plentiy of times. I said you must not watch film on him from your breakdown on his game. Nothing in those videos say he is not physical player. Which brought me to saying you must not look at film. But anyway you disagree with me and I disagree with but I know something we both want whats best the Redskins. So thats all that matter.

[ConnSKINS26]

GWinSkins83, you need to slow your roll and work on having a respectful discussion, whether you agree or disagree with any particular point being debated.

I'll repeat Steve's tip that continually "accusing" another poster of not watching a specific player being discussed is a serious Draft Thread party foul. Unless admitted or just plain obvious, always assume that everyone involved has in fact watched the player, and proceed from there, whether you agree or disagree. Its much easier to stay on even footing and not fall into that extremely disrespectful, and almost always VERY distracting, "you obviously have no idea what you're talking about" shtick.

As for one specific point, because this isn't my argument and I don't feel like breaking down your wall-o-text piece by piece, I've got this to say:

Steve clearly said that players with corner size/speed/athleticism/raw skill-set are the easiest to come by in the NFL and the draft. And that could definitely be argued very strongly. He did NOT say that good corners are the easiest, or even an easy, position to find. There's a subtle, but distinct, difference there.

And on that note, I'll pass along some more advice for these gargantuan draft threads: so much specific detail and varied minutiae are involved in breaking down prospects, and its such an arbitrary process in some regards, that paying VERY close attention to others' posts is pretty much necessary for a civil and accurate discussion, where each poster's individual views are fairly and consistently represented. Jumping to conclusions, reading between the lines, and generally "putting words in someone's mouth" becomes very easy to do when you don't attempt to put yourself on their side of the debate and carefully dissect their POV before making half-baked assumptions about it. Basically, pay attention to the small details to avoid confusion and unnecessary conflict on a point that might not even mean what you assume it does. Like the aforementioned CB debate.

Just some pointers to make your transition into what will obviously be an active role in this thread a smooth one. Your contributions WILL be valued and respected, I promise you. You'll have some of the best draft discussion you could imagine here.

But it all starts with respectfully and responsibly replying to others' posts, and going out of your way to understand what it is you're reading and replying to before flying off the handle.

A respectful tone and ability to phrase your thoughts in a readable, well-organized manner will take you very far in this thread, no matter what your opinions and who agrees or disagrees.

[GWinSkins83]

GWinSkins83, you need to slow your roll and work on having a respectful discussion, whether you agree or disagree with any particular point being debated.

I'll repeat Steve's tip that continually "accusing" another poster of not watching a specific player being discussed is a serious Draft Thread party foul. Unless admitted or just plain obvious, always assume that everyone involved has in fact watched the player, and proceed from there, whether you agree or disagree. Its much easier to stay on even footing and not fall into that extremely disrespectful, and almost always VERY distracting, "you obviously have no idea what you're talking about" shtick.

As for one specific point, because this isn't my argument and I don't feel like breaking down your wall-o-text piece by piece, I've got this to say:

Steve clearly said that players with corner size/speed/athleticism/raw skill-set are the easiest to come by in the NFL and the draft. And that could definitely be argued very strongly. He did NOT say that good corners are the easiest, or even an easy, position to find. There's a subtle, but distinct, difference there.

And on that note, I'll pass along some more advice for these gargantuan draft threads: so much specific detail and varied minutiae are involved in breaking down prospects, and its such an arbitrary process in some regards, that paying VERY close attention to others' posts is pretty much necessary for a civil and accurate discussion, where each poster's individual views are fairly and consistently represented. Jumping to conclusions, reading between the lines, and generally "putting words in someone's mouth" becomes very easy to do when you don't attempt to put yourself on their side of the debate and carefully dissect their POV before making half-baked assumptions about it. Basically, pay attention to the small details to avoid confusion and unnecessary conflict on a point that might not even mean what you assume it does. Like the aforementioned CB debate.

Just some pointers to make your transition into what will obviously be an active role in this thread a smooth one. Your contributions WILL be valued and respected, I promise you. You'll have some of the best draft discussion you could imagine here.

But it all starts with respectfully and responsibly replying to others' posts, and going out of your way to understand what it is you're reading and replying to before flying off the handle.

A respectful tone and ability to phrase your thoughts in a readable, well-organized manner will take you very far in this thread, no matter what your opinions and who agrees or disagrees.

I respect everybody up here. We all adults up in here plus ya'll been here but I can explain my point. I said from his breakdown of Jenkins he must haven't watched his(Jenkins) film. I also in my last post say whatever to it because we are not against each other we root for the same team. Now you come in the debate. I mean whats going on here I know how it rolls up in here. Just because I just join doesnt mean I haven/t been up in here paying attention to this forum. Look for a whole 2 years I have been in the site everyday, at home, at work, at the store when my woman is shopping. I know how to roll we was debating I havent said anything that would put him down in no way. I wonder do you going around tell others how to debate others. I aint trying to come here and start arguements just trying to debate if I come by as that.....O well cause first and foremost I, you, he and hopefully everyone in here are Redskin Fans and on the same side.

[ConnSKINS26]

Well, that wasn't taken exactly how I'd hoped it would. Just trying to help you out, dude. Some friendly advice on how to get the most of your discussions here, with the least amount of misunderstanding. No big deal if you want to continue doing the same thing and not take the advice. I wasn't "telling you how to debate" or accusing you of putting him down, or breaking any rules. I was trying to help you out a little, that's all.

[wilco_holland]

Jenkins is just a great all round corner. I only see two reasons why he won't be a first rounder:
- He isn't dominate enough this season. Takes off plays, doesn't play hard because off the lack of talent against him. He needs to bring his A-game.
- GM's get scared of his personality. Don't think weed is a that big probleme (****ing legal here) but he needs to show that he can focus. In the NFL you are not going to make it on talent alone, you need to work hard. Day in, day out. Is he willing to do that?

[postong]

Speaking to the CB discussion going on right now, what are y'alls thoughts on CB Greg Reid out of Florida State? I do not see him listed on CBS sports 2012 CB Draft Prospects list.

I know he's only a junior and drafting him would be contrary to Steve's theory (which, by the way, I think is a GREAT theory coupled with the team captain idea - well thought out Steve!), but I remember a good amount of hype surrounding him at the beginning of last CFB season. But if I remember correctly, I do not think he had a stellar year last season.

Has anyone followed him enough to notice the strengths/flaws in his game? He is definitely someone I would like to watch this season.

[GWinSkins83]

Well, that wasn't taken exactly how I'd hoped it would. Just trying to help you out, dude. Some friendly advice on how to get the most of your discussions here, with the least amount of misunderstanding. No big deal if you want to continue doing the same thing and not take the advice. I wasn't "telling you how to debate" or accusing you of putting him down, or breaking any rules. I was trying to help you out a little, that's all.

Thank you I was on one like Drake earlier my bad. I still stand by the Jenkins part.

[stevemcqueen1]

Thank you I was on one like Drake earlier my bad. I still stand by the Jenkins part.

Jenkins is a good corner, I don't dispute that.

At this point though, I'm not sure I would draft any corner before the first 20 picks, and I know I'd prefer to draft front seven players ahead of corners. Joe Haden is a great corner taken in the top ten and a shutdown player. But was he really all that much better than Devin McCourty who was taken much later? I'm not sure I believe in the concept of the franchise caliber shutdown corner. There are so many good ones in the NFL right now. And like you said earlier, the front 7 doesn't always win and that sometimes the OL wins--great corners sometimes blow coverages or they play good coverage and the QB & WR still win. And I mentioned this earlier but I think it bears repeating, Asomugha, Revis, Bailey, who are the great CBs of the league this decade, have all followed up elite seasons with subpar/mediocre ones at various points this decade. Corners are up and down, it's the nature of the position.

And I know you mentioned it earlier, that Andre Johnson touchdown has you worried about our corners but remember that was completed against Reed Doughty. If a secondary position needs to be upgraded to prevent those sorts of big passing plays, then shouldn't it be FS? Now if you wanted to argue for FS being a big need going forward, I'd actually agree with you.

Also, you mentioned stockpiling good corners to build a defense like the Jets, I wanted to respond that our defense is constructed more like Pittsburgh's than anyone else's. Pittsburgh has been getting it done with marginal CBs for a long time, but they've spent a ton of first and second round picks on defensive linemen and linebackers.

If I'm Shanahan why should I spend a high pick on a corner when I see mid-late round picks and UDFAs like Tramon Williams getting the job done at an elite level? Not only that, I'm drafting from a position of strength too, Deangelo Hall, Kevin Barnes, Brandyn Thompson, Dejon Gomes, and Josh Wilson all look like good players, none of whom limit your defense. They're all youngish too. We can afford to draft a middle round developmental guy with talent and have him sit for a couple of seasons in development, we don't have to go out and pick a guy in the first round who can start immediately.

You've made your case for Jenkins pretty well, and the one thing I like about him is that he's a three year starter already. But that move to division II because he got kicked off his team really bothers me. I don't really care that he smokes weed. I care that he kept getting arrested for it when he knew he was endangering his scholarship and potentially leaving his team out to dry.

This is a strong CB class too. For our purposes, the senior crop is deep with some really good players like Cliff Harris, Chase Minnifield, Coryell Judie, Omar Bolden, Alfonso Dennard, etc. Several of those guys could come here and develop into good starters, and some of them will slip into the middle round range. I'd rather see us spend our first and second round picks on guys like Alameda Ta'amu, Josh Chapman, Kheeston Randall, Courtney Upshaw, Travis Lewis, or Billy Wynn. Continuously upgrading the front seven also gives you a nice increasing return on what you've already invested in it previously by making the other linebackers' and linemen's jobs easier and strengthening your DL rotations. If we draft someone like Courtney Upshaw or Travis Lewis then it's going to make Orakpo and Kerrigan that much better, especially defending the run.

Our current corners are getting the job done so far, the weak part of our defense is up the middle where we don't really have a good NT after Cofield, weak ILBs, and little depth at safety. If we go out and draft something like Ta'amu or Chapman in the first and Travis Lewis in the second then I think you'll have a dominant defense with or without upgrading the cornerbacks.

Also this is a tip on how to format your posts. You're writing your arguments as one big paragraph which is harder to read and also harder to respond to using the quote feature. I suggest going through your posts after you've written them and break them up with paragraphs where you start each separate point you're making. See how mine is split up into a bunch of two and three line paragraphs? It's easier for people to pick out and respond to the separate arguments I make within a post.

[GWinSkins83]

Jenkins is a good corner, I don't dispute that.

At this point though, I'm not sure I would draft any corner before the first 20 picks, and I know I'd prefer to draft front seven players ahead of corners. Joe Haden is a great corner taken in the top ten and a shutdown player. But was he really all that much better than Devin McCourty who was taken much later? I'm not sure I believe in the concept of the franchise caliber shutdown corner. There are so many good ones in the NFL right now. And like you said earlier, the front 7 doesn't always win and that sometimes the OL wins--great corners sometimes blow coverages or they play good coverage and the QB & WR still win. And I mentioned this earlier but I think it bears repeating, Asomugha, Revis, Bailey, who are the great CBs of the league this decade, have all followed up elite seasons with subpar/mediocre ones at various points this decade. Corners are up and down, it's the nature of the position.

And I know you mentioned it earlier, that Andre Johnson touchdown has you worried about our corners but remember that was completed against Reed Doughty. If a secondary position needs to be upgraded to prevent those sorts of big passing plays, then shouldn't it be FS? Now if you wanted to argue for FS being a big need going forward, I'd actually agree with you.

Also, you mentioned stockpiling good corners to build a defense like the Jets, I wanted to respond that our defense is constructed more like Pittsburgh's than anyone else's. Pittsburgh has been getting it done with marginal CBs for a long time, but they've spent a ton of first and second round picks on defensive linemen and linebackers.

If I'm Shanahan why should I spend a high pick on a corner when I see mid-late round picks and UDFAs like Tramon Williams getting the job done at an elite level? Not only that, I'm drafting from a position of strength too, Deangelo Hall, Kevin Barnes, Brandyn Thompson, Dejon Gomes, and Josh Wilson all look like good players, none of whom limit your defense. They're all youngish too. We can afford to draft a middle round developmental guy with talent and have him sit for a couple of seasons in development, we don't have to go out and pick a guy in the first round who can start immediately.

You've made your case for Jenkins pretty well, and the one thing I like about him is that he's a three year starter already. But that move to division II because he got kicked off his team really bothers me. I don't really care that he smokes weed. I care that he kept getting arrested for it when he knew he was endangering his scholarship and potentially leaving his team out to dry.

This is a strong CB class too. For our purposes, the senior crop is deep with some really good players like Cliff Harris, Chase Minnifield, Coryell Judie, Omar Bolden, Alfonso Dennard, etc. Several of those guys could come here and develop into good starters, and some of them will slip into the middle round range. I'd rather see us spend our first and second round picks on guys like Alameda Ta'amu, Josh Chapman, Kheeston Randall, Courtney Upshaw, Travis Lewis, or Billy Wynn. Continuously upgrading the front seven also gives you a nice increasing return on what you've already invested in it previously by making the other linebackers' and linemen's jobs easier and strengthening your DL rotations. If we draft someone like Courtney Upshaw or Travis Lewis then it's going to make Orakpo and Kerrigan that much better, especially defending the run.

Our current corners are getting the job done so far, the weak part of our defense is up the middle where we don't really have a good NT after Cofield, weak ILBs, and little depth at safety. If we go out and draft something like Ta'amu or Chapman in the first and Travis Lewis in the second then I think you'll have a dominant defense with or without upgrading the cornerbacks.

Also this is a tip on how to format your posts. You're writing your arguments as one big paragraph which is harder to read and also harder to respond to using the quote feature. I suggest going through your posts after you've written them and break them up with paragraphs where you start each separate point you're making. See how mine is split up into a bunch of two and three line paragraphs? It's easier for people to pick out and respond to the separate arguments I make within a post.

I dont think we should draft Jenkins in the First either and yes we do need to build our defense like Steelers. But can I point out one thing. In the Steelers division they don't need a great CB because they dont go against great WRs. Im pretty sure if they had to go against some bona fide WRs they would address that too. But I do get what your saying. But this draft coming up have plenity of ILB, OLB, DE, and got NTs that is going to get pushed back in this draft. In some mock Tam'um and Chapman are going in the third and fourth rounds. They're also some good ILB that are going to be pushed back too. I mean you got 3 legid ILBS coming from Alabama only. DE I really dont know but we do Carriker who is young, Bowen who is young, Jenkins who is a rookie, Cofield can move around on the line. Its not like we short on talent out there and yes we can be deeper. But I also think we are in a different division and a whole different beast in the NFC. We have the better receivers in the conference. And we have to be ready for that for to compete. But yeah the front seven can make the back four look better than they are but I think we should want both making each other look good.

---------- Post added August-28th-2011 at 11:15 AM ----------

Ima look at some of Minnifield Cut ups because would be the ideal fit senior wise and local product. So I guess I'll check him out but I seen him going in the first or early second. So I dont know about that. Thats why I bring up Jenkins too cause maybe he will fall to the third over character issues.

[stevemcqueen1]

Speaking to the CB discussion going on right now, what are y'alls thoughts on CB Greg Reid out of Florida State? I do not see him listed on CBS sports 2012 CB Draft Prospects list.

I know he's only a junior and drafting him would be contrary to Steve's theory (which, by the way, I think is a GREAT theory coupled with the team captain idea - well thought out Steve!), but I remember a good amount of hype surrounding him at the beginning of last CFB season. But if I remember correctly, I do not think he had a stellar year last season.

Has anyone followed him enough to notice the strengths/flaws in his game? He is definitely someone I would like to watch this season.

Greg Reid shows up as the 10th ranked CB on CBS' 2013 CB list.

I like him personally, but I tend to favor ACC prospects a little more than I probably should. It comes from a higher level of familiarity.

I also like dynamic athletes at the CB position who can generate big plays from opportunistic ballhawking in zone coverages. I like that Reid comes out of a zone scheme and he's a TD return threat any time he gets an INT in the open field. I think our defense is predicated to generate and thrive off of these sorts of turnovers. Our CBs get beat occasionally, but if the front seven is generally successful in creating good leverage situations and our CBs aggressively break on balls in their zones, we're going to end up with a lot of picks and opportunities to score defensive TDs.

From that standpoint, Reid is a pretty nice fit.

He seems unlikely to declare early though given he can probably return to school in 2012 and be one of the top CBs in the 2013 class.

The theory of drafting seniors I've been thinking about isn't set in stone. I think that eventually this FO is going to draft an underclassman. But I'd guess that the conditions have to be right for him. He'd probably need to be a multi-year starter. A high number of starts has been a big trend for our draft picks so far (and I think it's a smart criteria). Second, you'll want to see some sort of peripheral awards and honors out of the prospect: team captain or school statistical records, first team all conference or player of the year awards, etc.

Also my gut tells me that you won't ever see this FO picking more than one or two juniors in a draft class.

I don't have a problem with passing on most juniors for seniors and targeting guys who were team captains, all conference academic teams, and multi-year starters. To me it speaks to the prospect's intangibles--his love of football, his work ethic, translating his talent into on field production, his maturity level, and his learning ability.

In the past I've tried to get a clue about a prospect's intangibles by watching interviews and reading rumors about them. I'm still going to watch interviews because I think you can discover a lot about a player's intelligence if they are a good communicator. But I'm also going to start paying more attention to awards won, captain status, academic achievement, and charitable contribution awards like the one Lowe's gives as a measure of intangibles. At the very least, number of career starts is going to become a big factor for how I consider prospects as a fit for us.

---------- Post added August-28th-2011 at 12:39 PM ----------


I dont think we should draft Jenkins in the First either and yes we do need to build our defense like Steelers. But can I point out one thing. In the Steelers division they don't need a great CB because they dont go against great WRs. Im pretty sure if they had to go against some bona fide WRs they would address that too. But I do get what your saying. But this draft coming up have plenity of ILB, OLB, DE, and got NTs that is going to get pushed back in this draft. In some mock Tam'um and Chapman are going in the third and fourth rounds. They're also some good ILB that are going to be pushed back too. I mean you got 3 legid ILBS coming from Alabama only. DE I really dont know but we do Carriker who is young, Bowen who is young, Jenkins who is a rookie, Cofield can move around on the line. Its not like we short on talent out there and yes we can be deeper. But I also think we are in a different division and a whole different beast in the NFC. We have the better receivers in the conference. And we have to be ready for that for to compete. But yeah the front seven can make the back four look better than they are but I think we should want both making each other look good.

---------- Post added August-28th-2011 at 11:15 AM ----------

Ima look at some of Minnifield Cut ups because would be the ideal fit senior wise and local product. So I guess I'll check him out but I seen him going in the first or early second. So I dont know about that. Thats why I bring up Jenkins too cause maybe he will fall to the third over character issues.

No doubt that it's nice to have good corners to disrupt an offense's timing. Jenkins is definitely a good corner who almost certainly would have been a first round pick this draft. I agree that if he's there in the third, you draft him because his talent advantage over the other available prospects would be overwhelming at that point. I don't know that he falls that far though. He's not going to get in trouble again this year so he's just going to go out, have a quiet season, and let his play do his talking for him. By the end of the season he'll have probably repaired his image and draft stock. Too bad he didn't declare for the Supp draft. He'd be a steal in the third.

I also agree that we have good defensive ends now with Bowen, Jenkins, and Cofield able to take snaps there + we already had Carriker. Darion Scott has been pretty good too, and in nickel situations Rob Jackson can play DE. I think we're weaker at NT and that is what I would look to fortify with a player like Ta'amu or Chapman. I've also seen Brandon Thompson out of Clemson ranked very high. As far as Ta'amu's and Chapman's draft stock goes, it's hard to say where they'll go right now. Mock's are going to fluctuate a lot early on. The best way is to trust your gut instinct on what round you think a prospect deserves to be taken in right now.

I look at Chapman and Ta'amu and think that Ta'amu deserves a first round grade, and that Chapman deserves a first to early second round grade. They're clean on character and injury history, if they make it through the year injury free then I think both will go by the middle of the second round. Courtney Upshaw is another player I really like, I see him getting late first and second round grades and going in the second of some mocks. I think he's an impact player. My gut tells me he'll be a first round pick if he stays injury free this season.

I would love a draft where our first three picks are:
Rd 1 - Upshaw
Rd 2 - Ta'amu/Chapman
Rd 3 - Jenkins

The problem is, when even the fans like us can tell when a player is really good, usually the NFL can too and those guys end up going a lot higher than mocks anticipate. It seems like it happens to me every year. J.J. Watt, Adrian Clayborn, Christian Ponder, and Aldon Smith were all players that I really liked and was hoping would slip on draft day, and all went earlier than they were projected to right before the draft.

Speaking of slipping, it seems like a lot of the top college CBs have been slipping on draft day. Amukamara fell pretty far. Jimmy Smith also fell all of the way to 27 when he was probably a top 15 talent. Then Brandon Harris fell all of the way to the end of the second round when he was a decent first round talent IMO. Aaron Williams went in the second and I thought he was a first round talent too.

There are a lot of good cornerbacks falling on draft day, I think that's another reason why you wait a bit on the position and see what comes your way towards the middle rounds.

I like Minnifield as a prospect and think he'll be a good draft value at the position. I see him as a first round caliber talent with a good size and speed combination.

The thing that I'm not crazy about is that he's not as big a playmaker as guys like Janoris Jenkins, Cliff Harris, or even Jayron Hosley. He's got 10 career interceptions which is fine IMO. But he has low career PBU numbers, with only 10 total and he has low tackle numbers. That says to me that he's not finding the ball very often and he's not the aggressive, playmaking type of player that we like for our defense. For instance, Jenkins has 25 career PBUs, and Cliff Harris had a ridiculous 25 the past two seasons. Running so much zone like we do, I want a guy who can read and react to break on the ball quickly and make plays. I'm not sure if that's Minnifield's style. I want to see him generate more plays on the ball this season before I'm completely sold on him.

[Dro89]

This is a strong CB class too. For our purposes, the senior crop is deep with some really good players like Cliff Harris, Chase Minnifield, Coryell Judie, Omar Bolden, Alfonso Dennard, etc. Several of those guys could come here and develop into good starters, and some of them will slip into the middle round range. I'd rather see us spend our first and second round picks on guys like Alameda Ta'amu, Josh Chapman, Kheeston Randall, Courtney Upshaw, Travis Lewis, or Billy Wynn. Continuously upgrading the front seven also gives you a nice increasing return on what you've already invested in it previously by making the other linebackers' and linemen's jobs easier and strengthening your DL rotations. If we draft someone like Courtney Upshaw or Travis Lewis then it's going to make Orakpo and Kerrigan that much better, especially defending the run.


Steve im with you Barring that the QB situation proves to be good.. But i think is also depends on where Ta'amu goes if he slipped to late 2nd i would trade up to get him then our Dline would be up there at the top imo.. we could dedicate the 1st round pick to say upshaw? Lewis may fall due to his Injury.

Id like to see us try and get Ta'mau and Lewis or Upshaw within the first 2 rounds (if the qb is ok.. if not we need to go QB first round and look for Chapman in the 2nd round and maybe trade back up in the 2nd for a slipping player maybe a Travis Lewis or a Donta Hightower).. I'd like to see us take advantage of maybe Ray Ray Armstrong.. we need to add depth to our Saftey position BADLY..

hopefully we will try and wheel and deal and get more picks to build depth for this team since that was one of the bad things he had last year and Previous years.

---------- Post added August-28th-2011 at 01:06 PM ----------

side note does this bother you guys?


Sources around the Oklahoma program have said that Lewis is a prima donna. He thinks that he should get big money and endorsements immediately when entering the NFL. That attitude could turn off a lot of teams, and Lewis needs to humble himself to not get himself taken off of multiple draft boards.

---------- Post added August-28th-2011 at 01:15 PM ----------

as of right now do you guys know what draft picks we have? we possibly lost what a 6th for Hightower? the rest should be..

1st
2nd
3rd
4th
4th
5th
7th

that about right?

[Dukes and Skins]

I kinda find that quote hard to believe Dro, the same Travis Lewis who when you watch the all access stuff is a very vocal team first leader. As for the picks I think thats correct as well

[stevemcqueen1]

Steve im with you Barring that the QB situation proves to be good.. But i think is also depends on where Ta'amu goes if he slipped to late 2nd i would trade up to get him then our Dline would be up there at the top imo.. we could dedicate the 1st round pick to say upshaw? Lewis may fall due to his Injury.

Id like to see us try and get Ta'mau and Lewis or Upshaw within the first 2 rounds (if the qb is ok.. if not we need to go QB first round and look for Chapman in the 2nd round and maybe trade back up in the 2nd for a slipping player maybe a Travis Lewis or a Donta Hightower).. I'd like to see us take advantage of maybe Ray Ray Armstrong.. we need to add depth to our Saftey position BADLY..

hopefully we will try and wheel and deal and get more picks to build depth for this team since that was one of the bad things he had last year and Previous years. Sounds good to me. I really like watching Ta'amu play. He reminds me of having a lot of the good qualities of Phil Taylor, only with a better motor.



side note does this bother you guys? That doesn't really bother me at all. I think the rumor mill isn't reliable, and citing unnamed sources doesn't lend the report a lot of credence. I think Travis Lewis actually has really clean character and that i's a plus in his favor. He's a team captain, won tons of awards, and a three time Academic All Big 12 selection. You can't get all of that without being a hard worker and smart guy.


as of right now do you guys know what draft picks we have? we possibly lost what a 6th for Hightower? the rest should be..

1st
2nd
3rd
4th
4th
5th
7th

that about right?

We got two 6th rounders from the McNabb deal, I think the 6th we traded Arizona is one of them, so we should still have our own 6th this year. Other than that, I think that list looks correct.

[GWinSkins83]

Sounds good to me. I really like watching Ta'amu play. He reminds me of having a lot of the good qualities of Phil Taylor, only with a better motor.


That doesn't really bother me at all. I think the rumor mill isn't reliable, and citing unnamed sources doesn't lend the report a lot of credence. I think Travis Lewis actually has really clean character and that i's a plus in his favor. He's a team captain, won tons of awards, and a three time Academic All Big 12 selection. You can't get all of that without being a hard worker and smart guy.



We got two 6th rounders from the McNabb deal, I think the 6th we traded Arizona is one of them, so we should still have our own 6th this year. Other than that, I think that list looks correct.

I know people dont like this but we should trade Cooley for a 3rd or 4th. Then pull what we did last year and trade down after we get a QB in the first.

[Dukes and Skins]

I know people dont like this but we should trade Cooley for a 3rd or 4th. Then pull what we did last year and trade down after we get a QB in the first.

Right now theres no way we get a 3rd or 4th for Chris. Best case scenario is that he comes back week one plays very well and then we could deal him, but honestly I dont see him going anywhere

[Dro89]

QB
Landry Jones
Andrew Luck
Matthew Barkley (hes going to Seattle signed sealed delivered imo)

NT
Brandon Thompson (do you guys see NT in this guy?)
Alameda Ta'amu
Josh Chapman

ILB
Manti Te'o (if he comes out)
Don'ta Hightower
Vontaze Burfict (pretty sure he comes out)
Luke Kuechly
Courtney Upshaw
Travis Lewis
Tank Carder

i see most of us are pretty set on either a QB/NT/ILB with QB and ILB being two of the positions of most need..

[Floodzone004]

Upshaw intrigues me so much. If Haslett really wants to get experimental, he'd be right up our alley.

[Dukes and Skins]

Upshaw intrigues me so much. If Haslett really wants to get experimental, he'd be right up our alley.

Honestly with Haslett Upshaw would be one of the guys Haslett could find a way to use him on the field. We've seen that Haslett doesn't stick to a base 3-4 D and will show many different looks and use different combinations. Right now getting Upshaw and Ta'amu would be sick to the D but again thats all dependent on QB as well

[Floodzone004]

Honestly with Haslett Upshaw would be one of the guys Haslett could find a way to use him on the field. We've seen that Haslett doesn't stick to a base 3-4 D and will show many different looks and use different combinations. Right now getting Upshaw and Ta'amu would be sick to the D but again thats all dependent on QB as well

Exactly, I think Haslett was more a victim of his personnel. We've already seen just in this preseason what he will do with the people he wanted. If Haslett wanted Upshaw it'd be like Shanny wanting a certain RB, clearly there will be a distinct plan to use him.

[GWinSkins83]

Right now theres no way we get a 3rd or 4th for Chris. Best case scenario is that he comes back week one plays very well and then we could deal him, but honestly I dont see him going anywhere

I know just wish we could. Ok than that I hope we can make something happen where we can get more picks for this draft.

[ConnSKINS26]

I know just wish we could. Ok than that I hope we can make something happen where we can get more picks for this draft.

The cool thing to me is that I'm now confident that even if we don't make a single trade between now and draft day, I know that we CAN pick up extra picks mid-draft if that's our prerogative.

[Dro89]

would be something crazy if beck and/or Rex played well enough and we took Upshaw/Lewis this year and then went BPA and landed Te'o

[Dukes and Skins]

I know just wish we could. Ok than that I hope we can make something happen where we can get more picks for this draft.

I understand that man but like Conn said we have shown to be able to acquire those picks that are valuable in the mid rounds which is just a testament of what a change our FO is now

[GWinSkins83]

Yeah the FO got me all gidy now about the draft. I mean Im studying the prospect like Im a scout. I can see we can be great for a long time with the amount of drafts we had and the quality picks like this year. Im excited to see what next year brings.

[Pedro]

We won't be picking as high as we were this year again under Shanahan IMO. We need to start trading for future picks with weak teams in strong divisions, like the Cowboys.

OT - Anyone know how our scout team did this off season? We look to have made a lot of hits in both the draft and FA, and that's not supposedly a consistent strength of Shanahan (i.e. he's historically good on RB, WR, OL and not so good on D and we look to have made hits in every section).

[Dro89]

We won't be picking as high as we were this year again under Shanahan IMO. We need to start trading for future picks with weak teams in strong divisions, like the Cowboys.

OT - Anyone know how our scout team did this off season? We look to have made a lot of hits in both the draft and FA, and that's not supposedly a consistent strength of Shanahan (i.e. he's historically good on RB, WR, OL and not so good on D and we look to have made hits in every section).

as much as it pains me to say this.. i wouldn't call the cowboys a weak team.. they can still be good.. i think we pick in the 10 range again..

[Rabsuz]

Let's talk about the elephant in the room, which QB should we take? Me myself, I am a fan of Landry Jones, but not so much of Barkely. But if we are picking really high in the draft, I say just go for broke and trade up for Andrew Luck, but if we are choosing past the maybe 8th pick then just pick Landry Jones. I'm still very skeptical about USC QBs, they are NEVER good in the NFL. Landry Jones has the traits of a franchise passer and his problems are thing that can be coached, like rookie throws and such that he seems to do time to time. Barkely is impressive, but there have been more impressive USC QBs than Barkely who have been mediocre or bad in the NFL. I haven't really done my homework on the "2nd tier" of QBs in this draft, but if the big three are Luck, Barkely, Jones and if they all declare, my board has Luck at top obviously, Jones, and then Barkely.

If we roll with Barkely than okay, I can live with it, we will see how that would play out. But I don't think the Redskins have the luxury of gambling on a young QB coming from a school that seems to produce QB busts when we have been starved for a great QB since the 60's. This QB selection next year is going to be a huge milestone in Redskins history. I can't wait.

Oh and in the later rounds I would grab some linemen to help nurture our new QB and help his development, as cliche as that sounds, but grab a lot of players like we did this year. But that all depends on how our D turns out to be. I would also probably sit our QB for a year and ween him into the system and playing time in 2013.

Let's hope we finally get the right guy this time.

[terrifNick21]

as much as it pains me to say this.. i wouldn't call the cowboys a weak team.. they can still be good.. i think we pick in the 10 range again..

Dallas has NO defense. They've overhyped, and they're going to be lucky to get to 8-8. Their o-line is in shambles, their CBs are average, they have no safeties, and the middle of their run defense is non-existent. Plus they have Romo at QB. Dallas is overrated by the mediots.

[Dukes and Skins]

I think though if we end up picking a QB it may not even be one of the big 3. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if we took a guy like Upshaw or Ta'Amu in round 1 then turned around in round 3 and took Tannehill(DG will be happy :ols:)

[Malcomb Kelly's Knees]

QB
Landry Jones
Andrew Luck
Matthew Barkley (hes going to Seattle signed sealed delivered imo)
.

Jones wants to get his degree so I doubt he leaves this year, Barkley has stated he wants to get USC to a bowl game before he leaves which means he'd have to stay another season.

So in all likely hood the only top rated QB guaranteed to be in the draft next year is Luck and he goes #1 no matter what.

Guys like lindley and foles would be reaches in the top 15 so i doubt we get a QB next year. More than likely upgrade our biggest weakness on defense in my mind.

[wilco_holland]

It´s possible that all of the three QB´s stay in school...and then? Then this QB class goes from deep to dissapointing at the top.

[Dukes and Skins]

It´s possible that all of the three QB´s stay in school...and then? Then this QB class goes from deep to dissapointing at the top.

Personally have a hard time seeing all 3 stay in the school at the same time. One of the 3 will leave to be the #1 guy IMO. I think you see Barkley and Luck declare but possibly Jones stay in school

[Dro89]

Dallas has NO defense. They've overhyped, and they're going to be lucky to get to 8-8. Their o-line is in shambles, their CBs are average, they have no safeties, and the middle of their run defense is non-existent. Plus they have Romo at QB. Dallas is overrated by the mediots.


i didnt say they were an 11-5 team but they aren't a team thats going to be drafting in the top 5 in the upcoming years.. no need to try and flip our picks for theirs..good players will always find a home in dallas and they will always be ok.