It's the throws Grossman can't make that kill us.

[NoCalMike]

Grossman through 3 games, in which the 'Skins are 2-1, has shown that he is a QB that can only do so much when the weight of the game is put on his shoulders.

His knowledge of the offense doesn't making up for the fact that he simply can't make certain throws, and often floats a lot of passes making them a lot more in danger of being picked off then they should be.

A Good play call by Shanahan that gets a WR wide open, in which Grossman makes a pass to, is not good enough to get it done in the NFL. Any QB on any team should make those throws.

It is the throws Grossman can't make that makes his ceiling somewhere around being a possible Wild Card team. I won't even say Grossman can't lead a team to the playoffs, but I am not confident he can do anything better.

Grossman had Moss behind the Cowboys secondary. He was 4-5 yards past Jenkins and the safety was completely out of position over the top. If Grossman had the arm to make the throw, we are looking at Moss's 3rd Monday Night Miracle catch to pretty much seal the game.

Hell, lets look at the games the 'Skins did win....how many times in Week 1 & 2, did Grossman underthrow wide open targets that the receivers had to STOP DEAD IN THEIR TRACKS to catch. If any one of those would have been caught in stride, EASY TOUCHDOWNS.

I won't "go there" and say a QB has to have the arm of Jeff George....(oK i went there)...but they have to have the damn ability to make throws in stride to WIDE OPEN WRs......

[Voice_of_Reason]

It's true. He's physically limited. Which is too bad. He seems to have as good of a grasp of the offense and the ability to execute it well.

But he doesn't have good quickness, which leads to sacks and fumbles.

He doesn't have good speed, so he gets tracked down on the back side, which leads to sacks and fumbles.

He has small hands which leads to fumbles.

He doesn't have an NFL arm, which leads to the defense not having to defend the entire field. And when a guy is open deep, he can't always get them the ball. The best example was actually in the SB. He had a guy running completely free down the right side, threw the ball as far as he could, which was under thrown by about 10 yards, and got picked off.

Look, Grossman is who he is. He seems to be making reasonably good decisions 95% of the time (and 5% he makes bonehead decisions) and he's physically limited. He can't make all the throws. He can't throw the frozen rope 40 yards down field. He can't escape.

Yet, he can (and I think he will) lead this team to 8-10 wins this year, and be a playoff contender.

I also think that Team Shanahan knows full well his limitations, and will be drafting a QB of the future next year. But I am THRILLED they didn't do it this year. This year, they got the WR situation squared away, a couple more OL in there to see what they could do, and dramatically upgraded the D. So, the QB waits a year longer. They'll fin in a few spots on the D, add a few more OL and QB next year, and get their QB. And then the rebuilding of the roster will be mostly complete.

This was going to take 2-3 years after the carnage of the Vinny years. QB just wasn't the high priority this year. Grossman can keep the team competitive, but he won't get them to the promise land.

[SkinSince87]

As I've told countless people Beck just sees the field better and the team seems to play harder for Beck...nothing more to say

[WeBB15]

Give Rex a break... He was decent when he had time to throw(besides the one pick)... The pass protection broke down in both 2 minute drills of the game.

[Enter Apotheosis]

The single biggest problem tonight was that Grossman had absolutely no feel for pressure. He rushed himself when he had time and he was completely oblivious when he didn't. In fact, when Grossman was hurrying himself the result was unnecessarily poor footwork that robbed him of the arm strength needed to make the deep, outside throws (which he can make but just barely with his feet under him and the chance to step up).

[veteranskinsfan]

NoCalMike knows what he is talking about with this thread. The OP has identified another Grossman weakness-the throws he simply cannot make. He is more of a "game manager" than a game "changer". He can get you to 8-8 but can he lead us to the playoffs? He can throw a screen pass better than Campbell but he can also throw into coverage as if he thinks he has Brett Favre's arm strength can beat the defensive scheme. Our defense was let down tonight by our lack of offense. For many years now, our team has had trouble putting teams away in the 4th quarter. We have not had an offensive gunslinger at quarterback that is for sure.

[gamecokskins703]

It's true. He's physically limited. Which is too bad. He seems to have as good of a grasp of the offense and the ability to execute it well.

But he doesn't have good quickness, which leads to sacks and fumbles.

He doesn't have good speed, so he gets tracked down on the back side, which leads to sacks and fumbles.

He has small hands which leads to fumbles.

He doesn't have an NFL arm, which leads to the defense not having to defend the entire field. And when a guy is open deep, he can't always get them the ball. The best example was actually in the SB. He had a guy running completely free down the right side, threw the ball as far as he could, which was under thrown by about 10 yards, and got picked off.

Look, Grossman is who he is. He seems to be making reasonably good decisions 95% of the time (and 5% he makes bonehead decisions) and he's physically limited. He can't make all the throws. He can't throw the frozen rope 40 yards down field. He can't escape.

Yet, he can (and I think he will) lead this team to 8-10 wins this year, and be a playoff contender.

I also think that Team Shanahan knows full well his limitations, and will be drafting a QB of the future next year. But I am THRILLED they didn't do it this year. This year, they got the WR situation squared away, a couple more OL in there to see what they could do, and dramatically upgraded the D. So, the QB waits a year longer. They'll fin in a few spots on the D, add a few more OL and QB next year, and get their QB. And then the rebuilding of the roster will be mostly complete.

This was going to take 2-3 years after the carnage of the Vinny years. QB just wasn't the high priority this year. Grossman can keep the team competitive, but he won't get them to the promise land.


Thankyou! This right here is the voice of reason. seriously, grossman is a qb who can run the system, but is limited physically. Bottom line. Our OL still needs to be improved in both pass pro and run blocking. But were still 2-1 and our defense looks great

[SirClintonPortis]

Somebody call ASF. His golden boy just got attacked.

[addicted]

I don't disagree at all with this but I watched every preseason game this year
And I know the cupboards are bare
The QB on this team that gives us the best option is Rex Grossman
He is the clear starter even with the turnovers

The reason we lost this game was because we abandoned the run

The only series we scored on? TH's drive

Washington Redskins at 09:31
1-10-WAS 24
(9:31) 25-T.Hightower left guard to WAS 26 for 2 yards (94-D.Ware, 50-S.Lee).
2-8-WAS 26
(8:56) 8-R.Grossman pass short middle to 89-S.Moss ran ob at DAL 38 for 36 yards. Pass complete on a "skinny post."
1-10-DAL 38
(8:19) 8-R.Grossman pass short left to 47-C.Cooley to DAL 26 for 12 yards (21-M.Jenkins). Pass complete in the flat.
1-10-DAL 26
(7:43) 25-T.Hightower left end to DAL 25 for 1 yard (50-S.Lee, 90-J.Ratliff).
2-9-DAL 25
(7:00) 25-T.Hightower right end to DAL 19 for 6 yards (26-A.Elam).
3-3-DAL 19
(6:15) (Shotgun) 8-R.Grossman pass short middle to 25-T.Hightower to DAL 12 for 7 yards (50-S.Lee). Pass complete on a crossing pattern out of the backfield.
1-10-DAL 12
(5:34) 25-T.Hightower right tackle to DAL 6 for 6 yards (43-G.Sensabaugh).
2-4-DAL 6
(4:52) 25-T.Hightower left end to DAL 1 for 5 yards (93-A.Spencer).
1-1-DAL 1
(4:05) 8-R.Grossman pass short left to 25-T.Hightower for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN. Pass complete off play action.
4-G.Gano extra point is GOOD, Center-57-N.Sundberg, Holder-6-S.Rocca.
WAS 16 DAL 9 Plays: 9 Possession: 5:31


Can anyone please tell me why the hell we didn't continue doing this? I'm confused

[Rodriggo]

often floats a lot of passes making them a lot more in danger of being picked off then they should be.

I'm still expecting to see Adrian Wilson pick off his lob to Moss in the endzone last week.

[SonOfWashington]

As I've told countless people Beck just sees the field better and the team seems to play harder for Beck...nothing more to sayBased on what? Preseason games? :whoknows:

[Ruff Stuff]

NoCalMike knows what he is talking about with this thread. The OP has identified another Grossman weakness-the throws he simply cannot make. He is more of a "game manager" than a game "changer". I'd say 2 fumbles (one not called) and an int make you a game changer...

[Rodriggo]

Can anyone please tell me why the hell we didn't continue doing this? I'm confused

Excellent notes. Totally agree. Be interesting to see the stats of pass v. run after that drive.

Might be wrong but didn't they go 3 and out on three straight passes on their next drive? Weird.

[addicted]

Excellent notes. Totally agree. Be interesting to see the stats of pass v. run after that drive.

Might be wrong but didn't they go 3 and out on three straight passes on their next drive? Weird.

Yes that's correct
After that drive we went all pass
Ratio was 17 passes, 2 rushes

[NoCalMike]

Grossman is Todd Collins version 2.0 He studies hard.....brings all the hard work and knowledge to the field....but doesn't have the athletic gifts to be a complete QB.

And I also agree, abandoning the run was a poor decision by Kyle Shanny......I like his offense, really do...but his PLAY CALLING is a problem.

All three games so far this season we can point to times where he just flat out abandoned the run and got pass happy when there was NO REASON for it.

[addicted]

Funny you made that comparison to Todd Collins
I said that tonight watching the game
Your assessment of what Rex is is completely on point
The good news is that Rex is younger then TC's I guess
The bad news is you can't turn a game manager into a playmaker

We will just have to rush more and we have the players for it I think
Helu looks good, Torain last season was a monster, and Hightower is the offensive MVP so far
And we have depth, Evan Royster is the all time leading rusher for Penn State.

It's confusing the hell out of me why the games being called this way
And if it is going to continue why aren't other players getting targets outside of Moss?
Why aren't we going with the youth? Lets get Austin, Hankerson, Paul involved
And one catch for Fred Davis is absurd to me after the first two weeks

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

Rex has a huge problem right now his eye's are on the pass rush not down field, and most of the time when a QB starts paying to much attention to the pass rush he is finished, he no longer can handle a hit and plays scared, that couldn't be more evident than against the cowboys last night, even when he was out of the pocket he was looking for defenders who were no where near him instead running straight ahead like any normal human being all the while just asking for a defender to run him down and strip the ball which he was holding as if he was looking for a Cowboy to hand it off to.

This game despite some of the mistakes should be laid on Rex's shoulders he just isn't a winner, we should have easily won this game with nothing more than routine QB play, Rex spent the 4th quarter watching the Dallas pass rush, take away his first intent to throw and he's done for the play, this was a big reason why I would have liked to see Beck start the season we just know what Rex is going to give you, where as Beck has a chance to progress, not to say beck is the answer by no means, but we are just spinning our wheels with Rex in whom I think could be a pretty good backup if he's not being hit every week.

[Prototype]

We are not gonna finish low enough to get Luck. So... basically, we are set back another 2 years. By then, London Fletcher will be retired, most our players past their prime. Rinse, repeat....

[amm0409]

well, duh. he made a horrible throw for an INT but he did squeeze one in through two defenders. we know this lets deal with it, his sexy rexy for gods sake

[Enter Apotheosis]

We are not gonna finish low enough to get Luck. So... basically, we are set back another 2 years. By then, London Fletcher will be retired, most our players past their prime. Rinse, repeat....

It would take us at least two years to win with a rookie QB in all likelihood, so we'd be running into the same problem anyway. It's won't even be a problem at all if we draft well and continue to make intelligent moves in free agency.

[amm0409]

we should of gotten more pressure on Romo, Homo

[GoDeep81]

Not sure there's anything new to read here? We knew what we had in Rex all along.. Listen, the guys not going to take us to a SB.. That's just a fact.. (And neither is Beck) We just have to roll with the punches until we can get an upgrade! Gonna be a few more years fellas! We knew this before tonight.. Someone said earlier they "though" we'd turned the corned.. Well, here's some news.. We HAVE turned the corner.. But we're still a ways from gettin to the top of the hill.. HAIL!!

[Destino]

Grossman 5 TDs 5TOs (3int & 2 fumbles lost). If he fails in seattle he SHOULD be benched. If he's benched now, in Shanny I trust. Sadly I think lil' Shanny is just as bad as Grossman. Maybe he smoked too much weed with lil Simms.

[Painkiller]

It would take us at least two years to win with a rookie QB in all likelihood, so we'd be running into the same problem anyway. It's won't even be a problem at all if we draft well and continue to make intelligent moves in free agency.

Thank You.

People who think we are going to build the team, and just plug somebody like Luck in and all of a sudden we are a Super Bowl contender are kidding themselves. Drafting a "franchise" QB does not guarantee anything. I'm not saying that isn't the direction we may need to go, but this idea that drafting a "Franchise" QB is the answer of all answers for this team is ridiculous.

There are no guarantees. We may not have any more success with a QB drafted, than we do with Rex or Beck. Less even. More often than not, they do not pan out, and if they don't you set your team back even further. I think Rex and the offense just need more time to gel, and the play-calling must improve.

[Santana_89]

Not sure there's anything new to read here? We knew what we had in Rex all along.. Listen, the guys not going to take us to a SB.. That's just a fact.. (And neither is Beck) We just have to roll with the punches until we can get an upgrade! Gonna be a few more years fellas! We knew this before tonight.. Someone said earlier they "though" we'd turned the corned.. Well, here's some news.. We HAVE turned the corner.. But we're still a ways from gettin to the top of the hill.. HAIL!!

On a dime some among us will throw the baby out with the bathwater. These Washington Redskins are VASTLY IMPROVED over the 2010 version all day and twice on Sunday.However we still have areas of needs/improvement and we WILL get them corrected and be the TEAM we envision. We have 7 NEW STARTERS that still have to become comfortable with the schemes and teammates. NO ONE expected us to go undefeated did they? So most of us say we're a 7-9 / 9-7 team well this is ONE LOSS.

[amm0409]

Whats so crazy. We are still in this. Eagles lost to Giants at home. Yes we lost to Dallas but it was at their place. We lost by one point. This game leaves bitterness in our mouth. We have the Rams next sunday then a bye week. Big game against Eagles after Bye week. Thats the game!!!! Honestly everything is fine with crazy rex. We are 2-1. Patriots are 2-1 lets see what happens. We are going to have horrible losses with Sexy, we knew this. I cant believe its not worse.

Yes, we are way better than last. I wish we threw the ball more to Helu out in the flats. Create some space for this guy. Im surprised

[Santana_89]

^^^ We could still be stuck with Donovan at qb #silverlining :)

[amm0409]

Thank You.

People who think we are going to build the team, and just plug somebody like Luck in and all of a sudden we are a Super Bowl contender are kidding themselves. Drafting a "franchise" QB does not guarantee anything. I'm not saying that isn't the direction we may need to go, but this idea that drafting a "Franchise" QB is the answer of all answers for this team is ridiculous.

There are no guarantees. We may not have any more success with a QB drafted, than we do with Rex or Beck. Less even. More often than not, they do not pan out, and if they don't you set your team back even further. I think Rex and the offense just need more time to gel, and the play-calling must improve.

I like what you said. I was one of the people who thought we would loose straight out for Luck. You make me think though. We all knew what we had with Rex. He made some great plays tonight and then some horrible ones. I think F. Jones made plays in key moments that put them over the top.

[Destino]

On a dime some among us will throw the baby out with the bathwater. These Washington Redskins are VASTLY IMPROVED over the 2010 version all day and twice on Sunday.However we still have areas of needs/improvement and we WILL get them corrected and be the TEAM we envision. We have 7 NEW STARTERS that still have to become comfortable with the schemes and teammates. NO ONE expected us to go undefeated did they? So most of us say we're a 7-9 / 9-7 team well this is ONE LOSS.
When we win 5 more games we are one game better than last year. Vastly improved? We'll see.

Also we have more than 7 new starters:
Safety
Corner
OLB
DE
NT
WR
RB
RG

Technically this is the first full season for:
QB
C
LG

[TimFolk]

This man could make all the throws... so what? HTTP://static.bbmp3.com/smilies/smug_russell.gif

[HoyaSkins28]

As I've told countless people Beck just sees the field better and the team seems to play harder for Beck...nothing more to say

Based on what? A few preseason games? Two of which Beck didn't even start. I would say Grossman has been seeing the field just fine (though anything is an upgrade after Jason Campbell and his tunnel vision), but the OP got it right, the guy just isn't strong enough to run a truly explosive offense. And the idea that the team plays harder for Beck is, at the very least, slightly ridiculous. He hasn't played any regular season games, and since the preseason means a whole lot of nothing, we have no basis to say that that's true or false. All we can comment on is that after three games of this regular season, I think effort on the field is just about the least of our concerns. This team plays hard every night, which, at least to me, makes them an absolutely lovable team. They played hard against the Giants, fought through some mental errors to come back in a tough game against AZ, and they played hard last night. Playing hard doesn't make you exempt from mistakes, as we have clearly seen with our buddy Rex, but it does keep you competitive, even with minimal talent. Thus far, through three games, I say we've played hard behind Rex, while Beck's been riding pine.

[mossomo]

Our defense was let down tonight by our lack of offense.

For sure, for sure. We didn't turn that corner.

[MartinC]

When we win 5 more games we are one game better than last year. Vastly improved? We'll see.

Also we have more than 7 new starters:
Safety
Corner
OLB
DE
NT
WR
RB
RG

Technically this is the first full season for:
QB
C
LG

Forget wins and losses for a minute you are honestly saying you dont think this roster and what we are seeing is not a significant step forward on last year? I dont know how it all shakes out on the final record (around 8-8 would be my guess) but we are significantly better this year in the defensive front seven, running back, receiver and offensive line and heading the right direction. Just not arrived yet.

[illone]

We are not gonna finish low enough to get Luck. So... basically, we are set back another 2 years. By then, London Fletcher will be retired, most our players past their prime. Rinse, repeat....


Luck is the prototype QB, yes, but there are many other QBs in 2012 draft that would fit the Skins offense just fine. Matt Barkley, Robert Griffin and Russell Wilson come to mind.

Don't get so hung up on Luck that you miss the boat on all the other prospects. Next years draft has the potential to beat out the 2004 draft that produced Eli, Rivers, and Big Ben.

[Dirt]

What? I had to check and see if this was a post last year about Donovan.

If anything, Rex throws too high and too deep, I don't recall any times where a guy had to 'run back' to catch a gorssman deep ball.

[s0crates]

Grossman is good when he is not fumbling or throwing into coverage. He just needs to find a way to limit those mistakes. I'm not confident that he ever will, but it is possible.

---------- Post added September-27th-2011 at 03:48 AM ----------


What? I had to check and see if this was a post last year about Donovan.

If anything, Rex throws too high and too deep, I don't recall any times where a guy had to 'run back' to catch a gorssman deep ball.Rex's INT was way underthrown.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

We are not gonna finish low enough to get Luck
They're other QBs in this upcoming draft besides Luck.

[PeterMP]

Can anyone please tell me why the hell we didn't continue doing this? I'm confused
Because it is easy for defenses to bring people to the line of scrimmage to stop the run, and then drop them into coverage for short throws on non-passing plays.

There's a reason weak armed QBs, even very accurate ones, don't have a whole lot of history of success in the NFL. You have to be able to complete some deep throws.

[HogNose]

As I've told countless people Beck just sees the field better and the team seems to play harder for Beck...nothing more to say

:wtf: Play harder when? What are you basing this on?? The 16-3 Indy pre-season game? Please explain.

[FrFan]

Grossman is and has always been a turnover machine, we just can't overcome them and that's killing us. I just don't get why Shanahan loves him, beats me.

[skins island connection]

The throws into double/triple coverage are making my gray hairs illuminate. If the receiver had ANY form of height advantage, it may be different, but some throws really do make me wonder...

[Redgrape]

The single biggest problem tonight was that Grossman had absolutely no feel for pressure. He rushed himself when he had time and he was completely oblivious when he didn't. In fact, when Grossman was hurrying himself the result was unnecessarily poor footwork that robbed him of the arm strength needed to make the deep, outside throws (which he can make but just barely with his feet under him and the chance to step up).

Spot freaking on. This post deserves its own thread.

[Audible_Red40]

As I've told countless people Beck just sees the field better and the team seems to play harder for Beck...nothing more to say

Nothing moer to say?

Explain:

1. Beck sees the field better.

2. The team seems to play hardder for Beck.

I don't understand these two logics at all.

[bowhunter]

**** it! I'm going medium!!

[Thirtyfive2seven]

grossman has a ton of faults but the fact is he still is the best, most viable option that the redskins have. Sure he's limited but it isn't time to pull the plug on Rex until we're out of the playoffs (if we were ever in it :)

I think Beck has a stronger arm but that will only get you so far. If Beck can master the offense the way Rex starting to grasp it then we have something. I agree with your points though. He floats too many, has awful pocket awareness, small, hands, not a big arm etc. Shanny may be able to hide most of that though.

[GhostofSparta]

Grossman 5 TDs 5TOs (3int & 2 fumbles lost). If he fails in seattle he SHOULD be benched. If he's benched now, in Shanny I trust. Sadly I think lil' Shanny is just as bad as Grossman. Maybe he smoked too much weed with lil Simms.

Here's what scares me. In his career, Grossman has 45 TDs, and 50 TOs (43 INTs, 16 lost fumbles [26 total fumbles]). Even his best year in Chicago he had 23 TDs to 25 TOs. Look at his career stats (http://www.nfl.com/player/rexgrossman/2505623/profile), Grossman has only 1 season with more TDs than TOs, and that's his rookie year in 2003 where he had 2 TDs, 1 INT, and 3 fumbles but none lost. Other than that, this year's 1:1 TD:TO ration is the best of his career so far.

I know this team is has given us fits in the past, but I'm convinced that Grossman will single-handedly kill 10% of our fanbase with heart attacks if he plays the whole year.

[LD0506]

I know this team is has given us fits in the past, but I'm convinced that Grossman will single-handedly kill 10% of our fanbase with heart attacks if he plays the whole year.

Do we get to choose which 10%? :silly:

[GhostofSparta]

Do we get to choose which 10%? :silly:

:ols: Only if you can get one of those torture-chair devices they have in movies that force people to watch.

[LD0506]

:ols: Only if you can get one of those torture-chair devices they have in movies that force people to watch.

No problem, let me dig it out of the shed...........

[NoCalMike]

My other fear is that as the season goes on and teams get more game film on Grossman, it will be easier to game plan to his weaknesses. It is already apparent after a mere 3 games that he has a lot of limitations. Unless we get the running game going a lot more consistently, the offense is going to continually put on Rex's shoulders which is not something he can handle due to his limitations.

Also, the guy has little to no presence for impending pressure coming his way. I am not asking for him to be mobile, but it would be nice if was a little more elusive. If he could feel the pressure and maybe make a couple moves to the left or right to buy a few extra seconds of time.

[JerseyGator]

Rex is a play action QB who can make a lot of throws. IMO, he's comparable to Eli Manning who many consider "elite" - not me. Eli has MANY limitations too. There is no perfect QB out there for any system. This is not a Madden video game you are watching.

The Cowboys had little respect for the Skins play action last night given the lack of big plays from the RBs. That's a big problem if you want most QBs in this league to succeed.

Yes, he also has a lot of turnovers, but so has every other QB who has played on the same team in the same system. Look at Cutler/Orton/Griese/McNabb. Most NFL QBs are system QBs.

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

My other fear is that as the season goes on and teams get more game film on Grossman, it will be easier to game plan to his weaknesses. It is already apparent after a mere 3 games that he has a lot of limitations. Unless we get the running game going a lot more consistently, the offense is going to continually put on Rex's shoulders which is not something he can handle due to his limitations.

Also, the guy has little to no presence for impending pressure coming his way. I am not asking for him to be mobile, but it would be nice if was a little more elusive. If he could feel the pressure and maybe make a couple moves to the left or right to buy a few extra seconds of time.

Grossman will not be playing a line like Dallas' every Sunday with the exception of Philly's.

The name of the game is called "counter-production." How do you counter defensive lines that have speed, you screen the hell out of them.

[Skinz4Life12]

As I've told countless people Beck just sees the field better and the team seems to play harder for Beck...nothing more to say

lol how can you say that the team plays harder for beck? i've seen no indication of that

[GWinSkins83]

It's true. He's physically limited. Which is too bad. He seems to have as good of a grasp of the offense and the ability to execute it well.

But he doesn't have good quickness, which leads to sacks and fumbles.

He doesn't have good speed, so he gets tracked down on the back side, which leads to sacks and fumbles.

He has small hands which leads to fumbles.

He doesn't have an NFL arm, which leads to the defense not having to defend the entire field. And when a guy is open deep, he can't always get them the ball. The best example was actually in the SB. He had a guy running completely free down the right side, threw the ball as far as he could, which was under thrown by about 10 yards, and got picked off.

Look, Grossman is who he is. He seems to be making reasonably good decisions 95% of the time (and 5% he makes bonehead decisions) and he's physically limited. He can't make all the throws. He can't throw the frozen rope 40 yards down field. He can't escape.

Yet, he can (and I think he will) lead this team to 8-10 wins this year, and be a playoff contender.

I also think that Team Shanahan knows full well his limitations, and will be drafting a QB of the future next year. But I am THRILLED they didn't do it this year. This year, they got the WR situation squared away, a couple more OL in there to see what they could do, and dramatically upgraded the D. So, the QB waits a year longer. They'll fin in a few spots on the D, add a few more OL and QB next year, and get their QB. And then the rebuilding of the roster will be mostly complete.

This was going to take 2-3 years after the carnage of the Vinny years. QB just wasn't the high priority this year. Grossman can keep the team competitive, but he won't get them to the promise land.

You maybe right I hope we get RGIII he would fit this offense to a TEE. I also think he could start day one and be better than Rex. Especially if we can get some stud OLine that can help open up the run game.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I pretty much agree with this. If Rex can't hit the deep ball every now and then, we're in some trouble this year. It always seems like he's throwing the deep ball about a second too late. I'm not going to pretend to have any clue as to why that is. He did it with Davis last week and Moss this week. If throws those balls a little sooner, I think our guys score long TDs. I also think if he puts that one throw to Austin into the back corner (more accurately, if he's ABLE to), it's a TD catch.

I'm not piling on Rex, but there are some things he can't do too well. I wouldn't have thought this to be the case a couple weeks ago, but I can certainly see a situation in which we go to Beck at some point this year. If the bye wasn't so early in the season, I'd pick that week as the possible change, but I don't think Rex will do enough to play himself out of the starting position next week. I think he might play just fine (which he has been...as I've said if 250 yards and 1 TD is your WORST game, you're doing something right).

The tough thing is trying to determine what he's leaving on the field.

[monkeezgob]

I don't think the loss was on Grossman, but on the playcalling. We need a balanced attack, if we just abandon the running game as we did after our TD then both Beck and Grossman will struggle. This loss is on Kyle Shanahan for lousy play-calling and Haslett for that stupidly risky call on 3rd and 21.

[Hail26]

Give Rex a break... He was decent when he had time to throw(besides the one pick)... The pass protection broke down in both 2 minute drills of the game.

Agreed.....Rex is not Tom Brady....so please dont act like he is....he did a GOOD job @ Dallas on Monday Night....we should have and could have won. This is a new Skins team.....I like Rex, and i think his teammates do as well

[rk3025]

Today's QB should be taller than Rex unless you are a great athlete to be a pocket mover.

[Hooper]

As I've told countless people Beck just sees the field better and the team seems to play harder for Beck...nothing more to say

Hilarious.

Beck was better than I thought in preseason but one of his biggest weaknesses was that he didn't see the field well at all.

Beck does have a better arm though. But everywhere he's gone he's shown he's afraid to use it. Probably because he doesn't trust his deep ball accuracy. JC had/has the same problem.

Rex is 2-1. Let's all relax. Our longterm answer at QB -- if we're lucky to find one -- isn't on the roster. But Rex is capable of winning games.

[ciresolstice]

I won't trash Grossman, I think he is a serviceable QB that will make some great throws at times..and can't make others...take the good with the bad. I agree he can't make all the throws...He has guts, and a short memory, yet is limited physically and mentally in some regards. Beyond his int's or fumbles..I just hate his accuracy. There are so many plays that if he threw the ball accurately the receiver would get 10-20 more yards or score possibly if the ball wasn't high, or low, or behind them. Even when he's on, he's off if that makes sense. lol

[Bobbyst21]

Not calling for Rex to be benched,but it would be nice to see what Beck can do with the entire starting teams on the field. To many times in preseason it was Beck with and against second stringers. Just to bad we dont have Mallett waiting to start.

[kubstix]

I'm still 100% behind Rex. I wonder what everyone will say after next Sunday when he throws 3 TDs 1 INT and 350+?? "It's the throws Grossman makes that are cannons"

[NoCalMike]

The thing about Rex is that he reminds me somewhat of Jason Campbell, in that it seems once the ball is snapped, if everything falls into place, the pass protection, the routes, the out-manned defense, then Campbell was capable of making a pretty good play. I attribute it to him being in the Kyle Shannahan offense for three years. He knows the scheme itself, when the ball is snapped, inside Rex's head he knows exactly where all the pieces should be falling into place. However that doesn't translate into him having the physical attributes to make it actually happen on the field.

Grossman seems the same way. At isolated times, he drops back, seems calm and collected and delivers the ball to the open WR right where he should, but I have noticed that he is not a QB that can make those "extra" things happen.

He will never be a QB that can buy extra time for either the O-line, or the receivers to break off routes and find a way to get open.
He will never be a QB that can avoid the pressure. Not necessarily by scrambling, but merely taking a few steps to the left or right or stepping forward. aka being Elusive.
He will hasn't been (won't say never to this one YET) a QB that shows he can hit receivers wide open down field in stride, which turns regular long completions into TDs
He will never be a QB that feels the pressure and protects the ball. I think the sample size we have on him is big enough now to say it decisively.

With all that said, I am not trying to say Rex is an awful QB, I am just trying to explain why I think there is a ceiling with him, and if fans can see it from watching games, I am damn sure the coaches know it, but as coaches, it doesn't matter cause they still need to run the plays for the sake of the rest of the team learning them so when we do get that QB, the rest of the team will be as helpful as possible working them into the system. I mean just imagine if we had a new QB, new to the system AND the rest of the team was also in the first year of the offense? It would look horrendous on the field, could get the QB shell-shocked.

Maybe this comparison will make you laugh:

If being a complete NFL QB could be explained via the 8 legs of an Octopus, I would say Rex Grossman is about a 4-5 legged Octopus, who is missing the other 3-4 legs. He might be able to survive in the Ocean, and have his days in the sun, but eventually, not having all 8 legs is going to catch up once the other fish & creatures in the sea clamp down and start attacking.

[jivelikenice]

Rex is who he is. To expect him to make a complete transformation is ridiculous at this point in his career. I don't think he'll have a 4 int game anytime soon but fumbling is an issue for him. He has believe 13 turnovers in 6 games as a starter in Washington and to expect anything different goign forward would be naive. I don't dislike the guy and I find myself rooting for him because you can see by his demeanor with the media that he knows what people say about him and has taken a public beating in the media. It would be great if he could prove everyone wrong, but that's just not realistic. His arm strength on the deep passes just isn't there, he struggles on throws to the hashmarks, and has no mobility, and he's a fumbling machine. He can do some things well, but to me he is an ideal back-up. he can give you 3-4 solid relief games and can win at least half of them for you but over time DC's will figure out his limitations and it would limit us from running our full offense to its potential. Beck hasn't proven anything in real action, but his preseason action showed that at worst he can be serviceable and his brings the ability to throw the ball deep, and move in & outside of the pocket. Over the longhaul of this season, I just think having that threat in the passing game is needed and can make us a more complete offense.

[washedup2]

im behind Rex but his arm is obviously weak, he has no zip on the ball, the ball floats almost every pass..and whats worse is when he is moving out of the pocket, his arm becomes weaker. The best ball he's thrown as a redskin was last year vs Giants to Armstrong. (wheres that arm?) As was stated, receivers have to wait on his throws. He can manage the game but his arm strength his a huge liability. Anyway lets shoot for 3-1

[Scamp1]

Give Rex a break... He was decent when he had time to throw(besides the one pick)... The pass protection broke down in both 2 minute drills of the game.

Thank you Rex, now back to practice.

[monkeezgob]

It's the lousy, bone-headed play calling that'll kill us, not Grossman. Kyle should hand it over to his father. As for Haslett...3rd and 21????? All out blitz???? You have to be kidding.

[RichmondRedskin88]

I'm still 100% behind Rex. I wonder what everyone will say after next Sunday when he throws 3 TDs 1 INT and 350+?? "It's the throws Grossman makes that are cannons"

And if he throws 4 INTS, no TDs, and throws for like 50 yards?

[kubstix]

And if he throws 4 INTS, no TDs, and throws for like 50 yards?

They are not realistic numbers. My numbers aren't off the wall ridiculous.

[-JB-]

As I've told countless people Beck just sees the field better and the team seems to play harder for Beck...nothing more to say

Ridiculous statement. Absolutely backed by zero factual evidence or rational thinking.

[Reaper 21]

You guys ***** more then my girl. We are 2-1 we lost away at Dallas by 2 pts a game we could have won, ball didn't bounce our way. Grossman looked ok but made an unfortunate play in crunch time. I'm pretty sure romo did this two weeks ago now he is a warrior national hero. Puke. Truth is we always split Dallas it's a part of the rivalry. Grossman is fine and so is d hall Kyle and haslett. Cuz more times and not these guys will be responsible for our new era wins. You could have campbell, the bingo caller, Greg blatche, and Carlos stone hands rOdgers .

[RichmondRedskin88]

They are not realistic numbers. My numbers aren't off the wall ridiculous.

I'd consider the 3 TDs and 350+ yards part possibly to be.

Also it wouldn't be the first time Rex has thrown 4 INTs in a game.

[Chachie]

Give Rex a break... He was decent when he had time to throw(besides the one pick)... The pass protection broke down in both 2 minute drills of the game.


Exactly. He kept us in that game. Our RBs couldn't find space, Fred Davis disappeared, and DHall got pushed around by a huge WR all night. Hence, we lose.


Edit- Not to mention we couldn't stop Felix Jones.

[kubstix]

I'd consider the 3 TDs and 350+ yards part possibly to be.

Also it wouldn't be the first time Rex has thrown 4 INTs in a game.

So let me get this straight. It's more realistic for Rex to throw for 50 yards and have 4 INTs than throwing for 350+ and 3TDs? That makes sense.

[ballin86]

Grossman 5 TDs 5TOs (3int & 2 fumbles lost). If he fails in seattle he SHOULD be benched. If he's benched now, in Shanny I trust. Sadly I think lil' Shanny is just as bad as Grossman. Maybe he smoked too much weed with lil Simms.

1 INT was because armstrong can't catch.

I'm not willing to blame a QB for fumbles when he is running for his life and gets hit. The one against Arizona was bad...but the one against Dallas is understandable...50 seconds to go...he is running for his life trying to make a play to win the game for his team.....give him some protection before we crucify him for fumbling the ball.

[Skinsinparadise]

Not calling for Rex to be benched,but it would be nice to see what Beck can do with the entire starting teams on the field. To many times in preseason it was Beck with and against second stringers. Just to bad we dont have Mallett waiting to start.

I'd give Rexy at least half a season. And I was rooting for Beck to win the job in the preseason. Still, IMO he hasn't done enough to lose his job or for that matter lock it in permanently. I think Rex has been OK, not IMO the stud that some on the board think he is, or IMO the train wreck that some think he is or will be. Yeah I am intrigued by Beck too, got no clue if he's the answer though but to play off of your point agree that Rex shouldn't be benched. IMO you can't hand someone the job, and give him just three games. Its chapter 1 in the movie, personally I am undecided.

Edit: I'd be far from upset to see Beck in there though. I am much more intrigued by him than Grossman but I think its unfair to have a QB competition, hand someone the job, and give him a ridiculously short leash. i know none of this is a direct response to your post just piggy backing off of it.

[jivelikenice]

It's the lousy, bone-headed play calling that'll kill us, not Grossman. Kyle should hand it over to his father. As for Haslett...3rd and 21????? All out blitz???? You have to be kidding.

Disagree. The blitz was part of the reason sure, but not the only reason we lost. Rex as the qb is the leader of our offense and its his responsibility to execute in the redzone. We've left a ton of points on the field the last 2 weeks so it should never have come down to 3rd and 21 w/ a 1 pt lead. That being said, during the course of a season defenses will make mistakes and our QB will have to lead us back. He had nearly 2 minutes on the clock and 2 timeouts and we only had to get in field goal range. He didn't come through. Finally, a couple of first downs or some points on our 4th quarter drives before the 2 minute drill could have put Dallas away. We let them hang around & in the NFL that will come back to haunt you very often. The same could have happened easily last week, but we were able to strip the ball loose at the end.

---------- Post added September-28th-2011 at 07:09 PM ----------


I'd give Rexy at least half a season. And I was rooting for Beck to win the job in the preseason. Still, IMO he hasn't done enough to lose his job or for that matter lock it in permanently. I think Rex has been OK, not IMO the stud that some on the board think he is, or IMO the train wreck that some think he is or will be. Yeah I am intrigued by Beck too, got no clue if he's the answer though but to play off of your point agree that Rex shouldn't be benched. IMO you can't hand someone the job, and give him just three games. Its chapter 1 in the movie, personally I am undecided.

Rex has done as much as McNabb did to get pulled versus Detroit. Rex is who he is....Everyone keeps saying that but people still expect something else. If you wait until midseason we'll be having the same discussion. I frankly think that another fumble or two and that leash will get very short. I like Rex and would love to see him suceed and prove everyone wrong, but he has too many negatives going against him:
1. Arm Strength- Its clearly on the decline. We have no deep pasing game and receivers are constantly waiting on the ball. On top of that when he gets pressured he has a difficult time throwing the ball away
2. Mobility- Aside fron not having any escapability, we cannot run any rollouts with him and thats a big part of the Shanahan offense
3. Turnovers- Speaks for itself

I'm not saying Beck is great, but he opens up the entire playbook....

---------- Post added September-28th-2011 at 07:13 PM ----------


1 INT was because armstrong can't catch.

I'm not willing to blame a QB for fumbles when he is running for his life and gets hit. The one against Arizona was bad...but the one against Dallas is understandable...50 seconds to go...he is running for his life trying to make a play to win the game for his team.....give him some protection before we crucify him for fumbling the ball.

The Armstrong INT still wasn't a great pass. And for every INT you can blame elsewhere, there are several where he got bailed out (numerous batted passed v Zona, and Dallas nearly had 2-3 additional picks where receivers broke up the play)

How can you not blame Rex for fumbles? He didn't have to win the game on that one play. It was 2nd down, we only needed 20-25 yards and we had 35 seconds left with a timeout! You don't have to try to win the game there. He also had no pocket presense and should have known that someone was coming considering the play took long to develop. Bottom line, he should have thrown it away. Even if he got sacked it would have been a boneheaded play because we would have had to burn our last timeout.

[Destino]

1 INT was because armstrong can't catch.

I'm not willing to blame a QB for fumbles when he is running for his life and gets hit. The one against Arizona was bad...but the one against Dallas is understandable...50 seconds to go...he is running for his life trying to make a play to win the game for his team.....give him some protection before we crucify him for fumbling the ball.
He had plenty of time to throw the ball and was caught from behind while outside the pocket by a line backer that came from the opposite end of the field. He needs to have another good game and the Rams are perfect for that.

[Renegade7]

Amazing how in one week Sexy Rexy has gone from being the best redskins QB ever to Todd Collins 2.0 .Dallas Week is like two weeks long and can't end soon enough. :doh:

[Win4us]

I'm not sure why Kyle got away from the short and intermediate stuff (Cooley/Davis) as the game went on. Maybe the turds adjusted but seemed like we went for broke on just about every pass in the 4th quarter.

[DeadExField]

My question is, do the coaches keep Rex as the starter if he has another 2-3 bad games in the upcoming weeks?

[Renegade7]

My question is, do the coaches keep Rex as the starter if he has another 2-3 bad games in the upcoming weeks?

Rex will stay the starter as long as we're in playoff contention. There's a reason he's starting over Beck; it's because the coaches feel gives us a better chance to win a football game. Once it doesn't matter anymore it doesn't matter anymore...

[darrelgreenie]

My question is, do the coaches keep Rex as the starter if he has another 2-3 bad games in the upcoming weeks?Mike Shanahan has benched almost every QB he's had going back to his days as a OC/playcaller in 49ers.
If Rex is the reason the offense struggles I would bet dollars to doughnuts that Rex will ride the pine.

[NoCalMike]

To me the one and only reason Rex was named the starter in the first place has to be his knowledge and comfortableness within the Kyle Shanahan offense. There is no way on earth you can argue that Rex makes throws that Beck can't. Beck is more mobile, elusive, and has a better arm, however, if he is not comfortable in the offense to where you can use 100% of the playbook, that can be reason enough to start Rex until Beck learns the offense better.

In the preseason, even when Beck was not doing the best, you saw the difference in how the offense felt like it could moved down the field at anytime because Beck had the arm to make the deep throws and to keep defenses honest.

With Rex the offense will always be limited to whatever type of throw Rex can execute.

I am not arguing that Beck should be the starting QB now, I am simply laying out the case for why I think Rex was chosen over Beck.

It reminds me of Todd Collins in the Al Saunders system. Todd Collins didn't have half the physical tools Campbell did, but Collins knew the Al Saunders offense, so on a SHORT TERM basis, Collins would come and look great.....until teams had game film and figured out what his limited physical ability had to offer, and they adjusted and Collins showed why he is not a starter in the NFL.

[rk3025]

If we keep Grossman as QB, we can draft higher next year!

[jivelikenice]

Amazing how in one week Sexy Rexy has gone from being the best redskins QB ever to Todd Collins 2.0 .Dallas Week is like two weeks long and can't end soon enough. :doh:

I don't see it that way. I'm not sure anyone out there was extremely pleased with Rex's play versus the Cards.

[SkinSince87]

the oline actually runs to pick him up off the floor

[RedskinsInFebruary]

we should of gotten more pressure on Romo, Homo

Thats what's REALLY depressing--the Cowgirls injured/inexperienced/ w rookie OL has looked pretty good so far.

[GWinSkins83]

1 INT was because armstrong can't catch.

I'm not willing to blame a QB for fumbles when he is running for his life and gets hit. The one against Arizona was bad...but the one against Dallas is understandable...50 seconds to go...he is running for his life trying to make a play to win the game for his team.....give him some protection before we crucify him for fumbling the ball.

Don't give him an excuse man. Last time we played Dallas the game ended onna turnover by Grossman. He should have had it tucked. Now if he had fumbled it while it was tuck ok. But he had it in his little hand dangling. He should have been saying in his head "Ok I am Rex Grossman, I have little hands, I have fumbled the past two games of this season, I am slow so its probably a much bigger person running me down, I still have time on the clock, I should tuck it! Tuck it!" But no he wants to stay a punchline and our team does not need a QB that is turnover punchline.

[rockfan7224]

Amazing how in one week Sexy Rexy has gone from being the best redskins QB ever to Todd Collins 2.0 .Dallas Week is like two weeks long and can't end soon enough. :doh:

Seriously, it's so obnoxious. Watch him light up the Rams like he did to the Giants and everyone will be on the bandwagon again.

[Skinsinparadise]

Rex has done as much as McNabb did to get pulled versus Detroit. Rex is who he is....Everyone keeps saying that but people still expect something else. If you wait until midseason we'll be having the same discussion. I frankly think that another fumble or two and that leash will get very short. I like Rex and would love to see him suceed and prove everyone wrong, but he has too many negatives going against him: 1. Arm Strength- Its clearly on the decline. We have no deep pasing game and receivers are constantly waiting on the ball. On top of that when he gets pressured he has a difficult time throwing the ball away 2. Mobility- Aside fron not having any escapability, we cannot run any rollouts with him and thats a big part of the Shanahan offense
3. Turnovers- Speaks for itself

I'm not saying Beck is great, but he opens up the entire playbook.

Yeah but McNabb was just pulled at the end of the game, he didn't lose his job at that point. I think you are probably right about Rex, I am not sold on Rex based on his first 3 games. But I don't think he's been bad either. I don't agree with those Rex supporters who say "get out of here" he's played very well and the best is yet to come. (though I do think he burns it up against the Rams wretched secondary) but I also don't agree with the this dude stinks crowd. I rooted for Beck to win the job and I am definitely more intrigued by Beck over Rex because of his athleticism.

My best guess on Rex is he's now sort of like who John Freiz/Jon Kitna were in their peak -- guys who play decently at times but are too inconsistent and aren't enough of a game breaker to take you to the promised land. Is Beck better? I don't know. But if Shanny stays true to his word, I don't think Rex should be benched. I don't think he's lost his job. However, I also don't think he's locked it in. I think it would be unfair to bench him after such a small sample of games, especially considered I don't think he's been bad. I am hoping for better than a QB that's not bad, I am hoping longer term we have a guy that scares defenses.

I was listening to a Rams broadcaster talk on 106.7 and he was saying as far as he knows their game plan is to stop Hightower and the running game, and daring Rex to beat them. For the last 10 years or so, stopping our run game seems to be the operative game plan for most teams. I'd like to see that change for once. And yeah I don't think at least yet, opposing defensive coordinators are saying to themselves, we can't let Rex beat us, he is the Skins most dangerous weapon, etc.

Edit: the thing is I've noticed if teams want to stop our run game even in our peak, they often can do it. That's a whole separate subject though. Clinton for example disappeared in both playoff games he played in.

---------- Post added October-1st-2011 at 09:20 AM ----------


Seriously, it's so obnoxious. Watch him light up the Rams like he did to the Giants and everyone will be on the bandwagon again.

I predict that's going to happen, followed by an erratic game against the eagles. Then the debate ensues. Hope am wrong though.

[rockfan7224]

I predict that's going to happen, followed by an erratic game against the eagles. Then the debate ensues. Hope am wrong though.

What I find most amusing is that everyone (recently) is knocking Rex for the "deep ball" and clamoring for Beck when the deep ball was everyones complaint about Beck before the season. It never ends. :ols:

[Skinsinparadise]

What I find most amusing is that everyone (recently) is knocking Rex for the "deep ball" and clamoring for Beck when the deep ball was everyones complaint about Beck before the season. It never ends. :ols:

Agree neither has been impressive with the deep ball. Although, Beck clearly has the stronger arm, his deep ball was erratic in preseason. I thought the deep ball was one of the things that give Rex the edge, but I've not seen it yet. Hopefully he burns it up against the Rams, their secondary really stinks, should be a big game for Rexy and thus will quiet down this discussion for a little bit.

[OlufemiBiz]

NO, it's 'CALLS' which Kyle REFUSES to make (i.e.: "if it ain't 'broke',don't 'fix' it"; "if the opposing defense ISN'T stopping 'certain plays', KEEP running them"; et al., etc., ad nauseum)!?! Because of his "stubborn-ness", we KEEP opponents in the games!!! Plus, Grossman is a 'BUM'!!!

[Buck812]

I have a hard time believing Beck is this bad... I think we'll see him soon

[NoCalMike]

With the 'Skins up 17-0, (not quite worthy of the term "route" but firmly being in control), Grossman reminded us he is Grossman. The first INT not his fault, but that second INT was almost identical to the one against Dallas, never sees the linebacker standing right in front of the route.

Shanahan must really feel that there is no better alternative in 2011 than Grossman and realizes he has to take the lumps until a better replacement can be found.