Czaban: Sham-a-han??

[hail2skins]

When it rains it pours. Of course, Czaban predicted that the Skins were going to somehow put up 28-30 points this week......talk about needing to lay the pipe down!

http://www.czabe.com/

[DieselPwr44]

In honor of bubba:

Czabe's a putz.

[Hitman21ST]

Pretty much, all I take from Shanahan saying what he does about the quarterbacks is that since he can't say "Our QB next year is in college now, all we have is a seat-warmer. We're using this year as an extended preseason to try out the rookies and get them experience."

Shanny can't say that because the backlash would be absolutely earth-shattering. So he says "we understand the QB situation" and "I have the utmost confidence in Beck"

[RFKFedEx]

Matt Barkley please Shanny. In the mean time he can pretend to love Beck all he wants.

[authentic]

This is like a winter wonderland for guys like Czabe. I wouldn't pay him any mind what so ever....

[#98QBKiller]

Pretty much, all I take from Shanahan saying what he does about the quarterbacks is that since he can't say "Our QB next year is in college now, all we have is a seat-warmer. We're using this year as an extended preseason to try out the rookies and get them experience."

Shanny can't say that because the backlash would be absolutely earth-shattering. So he says "we understand the QB situation" and "I have the utmost confidence in Beck"

Pretty much and it's amazing how many people take everything he says at face value. What he says and what he's thinking are two very different things. He has to stay PC to keep his job.

[Drkstar]

Pretty much, all I take from Shanahan saying what he does about the quarterbacks is that since he can't say "Our QB next year is in college now, all we have is a seat-warmer. We're using this year as an extended preseason to try out the rookies and get them experience."

Shanny can't say that because the backlash would be absolutely earth-shattering. So he says "we understand the QB situation" and "I have the utmost confidence in Beck"


more earth shattering then the results the past 3 weeks?
I hope you are right but czabe's point in his blog has equal merit

I think you over-estimate the concept that redskins fans cant take the truth about the QB position

[brandymac27]

All I know is that from the look on his face in that pic, he looks exasperated and just disgusted. Anyone claiming that Mike is just here for the cash is full of crap. All they need to do is look at his face in that pic. If Mike is faking that expression, then he shouldn't be coaching football, he should be on the big screen with Tom Cruise etc b/c he would absolutely deserve an Academy Award.

[Hitman21ST]

I think you over-estimate the concept that redskins fans cant take the truth about the QB position

The whole world may (hell, probably does) know it. Still doesn't mean you say it.

What Czabe is doing is the same thing as if Mrs. Shanahan (who for my example is fat) asks Mike if a dress makes her look fat, Mike says "no honey, you look fine" and then Czabe freaks out about what he said.

[Boss_Hogg]

He's a poor writer.

[Old Bay]

Czabe's tirade yesterday afternoon was a bit Chad-esque.

[Skinsfan4life83]

The media attention has gotten pretty pathetic, especially locally and on ComCast. If I have to listen to Brian Mitchell go on another tirade I think I'm gonna vomit. I mean this is obviously a rebuild but these half assed reporters just don't get it, B Mitch and Kelli Johnson really made that clear after Shannys press conference yesterday. They just want to drum up drama.

[RFKFedEx]

They just want to drum up drama.

Pretty much. I love Czabe, and I understand he needs to be entertaining in what is becoming yet another lost season. But quit acting like we're as bad off as we were in 2009. Stop pretending like we're not in complete and total rebuild mode.

[ktball74]

People are quick to forget the mess that the previous regime left this franchise in! Giving away draft picks and ignoring the trenches on both sides of the ball in the draft set us back 10 years. Shanny is doing the right thing and needs time. Look how many early first round picks it took for Detroit to be relevant again. I think Vinny was worse than Millen in the grand scheme of things! The short sightedness form the media and some fans are just plain idiotic! Just my 2 cents

[MassSkinsFan]

What a ****ing tool. Seriously. I'm glad I don't listen to or read this guy because it would send me around the bend if this nugget is any indication of his usual reasoning skills.

To suggest that Mike Shanahan is totally clueless about the QB situation - to say he really thinks that either Rex or Bex are high-quality starter material - is plain stupid. Of course he knows they aren't. When he says he understands the QB situation, that doesn't mean he has it solved dumbass. It means he knows how tenuous it is.

Czabe nails it when he says that Shanahan is prepared to take **** from the media. I'm pretty much convinced he's fixing D first then O, within the constraints presented by the need to pursue BPA. WIth so many gaps to fill, it's not a mystery that he pursued McNabb as a placeholder who could provide enough stability to ensure a meaningful evaluation of receivers. Unfortunately he misjudged McNabb's worth. But, if he was really trying to cover up a mistake as Czabe suggests, would he have done what he did with McNabb or would Donovan still be here? I think the latter.

So, Czabe, shut the **** up.

Thank you.

Hail.

[RFKFedEx]

People are quick to forget the mess that the previous regime left this franchise in! Giving away draft picks and ignoring the trenches on both sides of the ball in the draft set us back 10 years. Shanny is doing the right thing and needs time. Look how many early first round picks it took for Detroit to be relevant again. I think Vinny was worse than Millen in the grand scheme of things! The short sightedness form the media and some fans are just plain idiotic! Just my 2 cents

I'm so with you.

People like Czabe and Dukes need to see the big picture, long term. Not just the here and now of suckness for which we are suffering from a decade of Vinny and Danny running the show.

Now if next year comes and goes w/ out a QB, and we find ourselves at 4-12 again, then we can clean house.

[ktball74]

What a ****ing tool. Seriously. I'm glad I don't listen to or read this guy because it would send me around the bend if this nugget is any indication of his usual reasoning skills.

To suggest that Mike Shanahan is totally clueless about the QB situation - to say he really thinks that either Rex or Bex are high-quality starter material - is plain stupid. Of course he knows they aren't. When he says he understands the QB situation, that doesn't mean he has it solved dumbass. It means he knows how tenuous it is.

Czabe nails it when he says that Shanahan is prepared to take **** from the media. I'm pretty much convinced he's fixing D first then O, within the constraints presented by the need to pursue BPA. WIth so many gaps to fill, it's not a mystery that he pursued McNabb as a placeholder who could provide enough stability to ensure a meaningful evaluation of receivers. Unfortunately he misjudged McNabb's worth. But, if he was really trying to cover up a mistake as Czabe suggests, would he have done what he did with McNabb or would Donovan still be here? I think the latter.

So, Czabe, shut the **** up.

Thank you.

Hail.

Amen brother!

[Destino]

Anyone else find it funny that this argument is essentially "who knows what Shanahan is really thinking?"

Czabe saying he thought this would work because his system is more important is no more or less ridiculous than fans claiming he knew these two QBs would fail. Neither of you are in Shanahan's head and both of you are attributing your own thoughts on the subject to Shanahan. We know what he's done. The rest is just a bunch of fanboys and haters making up reasons for it.

---------- Post added November-8th-2011 at 10:43 AM ----------


Pretty much, all I take from Shanahan saying what he does about the quarterbacks is that since he can't say "Our QB next year is in college now, all we have is a seat-warmer. We're using this year as an extended preseason to try out the rookies and get them experience."Why not just take him at his word at the beginning of the season? Is it really unthinkable that he thought Rex, who he favored over McNabb, and John Beck, who he hand picked, were players he felt would succeed? He said as much and he took us into the season with just these two QBs. Those were his actions and they fit perfectly with his words. Why are we suddenly playing psychic and deciding that he didn't really mean it and what he really meant was XYZ.

[darrell1106]

Matt Barkley please Shanny. In the mean time he can pretend to love Beck all he wants.
uggghhhh

[Jumbo]

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[Rocky52Mc]

Czabe is a complete douche. I literally want to listen to sports talk but have to turn away from it from time to time because the **** he says is all built up negativity and his word pronouncing is pig like.

[Brotherz]

Shanny can't say that because the backlash would be absolutely earth-shattering. So he says "we understand the QB situation" and "I have the utmost confidence in Beck"

I agree that is what he is doing. I don't think for a minute that a guy who coached Elways and Steve Young and drafted Cutler when nobody else knew who he was doesn't know QB's. But I am curious about the whole "earth-shattering" to say it. Why? I for one would be comforted if he said it and it would take the air out of the sails of guys like Czabe who can only write this drivel because Shanny won't say it.

He shouldn't say "we are tanking" (and by the way, he isn't). But tell me you wouldn't stand up and applaud if he said:

"I'm not going to talk about specific players. These are the players on our team this year. I don't need to tell you guys the history of this franchise over the last two decades save for two seasons with Joe Gibbs. This team has tried the fast, "win now" approach and you see the results of that philosophy. I am not trying to build a team that sneaks into the playoffs once every ten years. I am trying to build New England. I am Trying to Build Pittsburgh. I am trying to build Green Bay.

Going from what we inherited to those perrenial powerhouses is a tall order and it isn't going to be a quick fix because quick fixes is exactly why this team ISN'T those franchises right now. I care about one thing - Superbowls. I don't even want to create a team that just competes for playoffs regularly, i want a team that competes for Superbowls regularly. I am making decisions for this team with that frame of reference. So for those who are unhappy with our current record and situation I empathize but understand that playing young players like Leonard Hankerson, Roy Helu, Niles Paul, Ryan Kerrigan, and Jon Beck instead of Veterans who may have more experience and therefore give you a short term better chance to win a specific game is all about getting to our overarching goal of championships. That doesn't mean we don't do everything in our power to win every sunday. What it does mean is that we are trying to win every sunday in the context of our ultimate goal which is to build a champion.

Again, I won't speak about specific players because that's unfair to them, they are on this roster right now, they are Redskins right now and over the course of the rebuild they do have a role. For some it is to bridge us to a better position in the future. That is the role for some of these guys but this year, right now, they are Redskins and deserve the respect that I am trying to build to be associated with that name. Its a fine line every week getting up in front of you guys and trying to subtley say "of course I know this team has to keep growing and changing - that's obvious, because we are building a champion and this team, right now is not championship caliber versus saying we are trying to win right now and I like the guys we have. Ultimately, those two positions are not mutually exclusive.

Everyone in that locker room knows that if you are not going to help us become a champion, you won't ultimately be here when we become a champion. That doesn't mean I don't respect you. it doesn't mean you aren't important in the process of getting there. But I can't stand up here every week and say this guy or that guy is a short term bridge to the guy we are targeting in the draft or free agency next year. That's not fair. I won't do that because the men in that locker room deserve better than that. But, I am building a champion here and I know this team needs more talent. And we are going to get it. We are going to get it at every position. We are going to get it in depth as well. Its a process and it takes time. We think we are adding those kinds of guys each year and you can look and see that happening. But it doesn't happen overnight. But it will happen.

I would freakin love it! Who would bash him for that? By the way, THAT is the freakin truth!!

[SkinsHokieFan]

The drama people need with the Redskins. Parsing words, etc.

It was very obvious, to me at least, by the actions of the offseason that we were not going to be competitive nor planned to be competitive in 2011 but planned on being in position to draft a QB in 2012.

Its a shame that so many of you had foolish expectations.

---------- Post added November-8th-2011 at 11:14 AM ----------




---------- Post added November-8th-2011 at 10:43 AM ----------

[/COLOR]Why not just take him at his word at the beginning of the season? Is it really unthinkable that he thought Rex, who he favored over McNabb, and John Beck, who he hand picked, were players he felt would succeed? He said as much and he took us into the season with just these two QBs. Those were his actions and they fit perfectly with his words. Why are we suddenly playing psychic and deciding that he didn't really mean it and what he really meant was XYZ.

Because its a FOOTBALL COACH.

These guys don't reveal a thing unless they are named Jim Zorn. Rather then trying to parse through words, it was very obvious by the actions this FO took (no big FA signings, no QB drafted) that 2011 would be a non competitive year.

Next year I expect a) impactful signings in the FA market on offense and b) a run at Andrew Luck or picking the next best QB at our top 3 pick.

Which is fine by me

[Boss_Hogg]

SHF,

awesome sig. Great photoshop work!

[cphil006]

This is ridiculous. He really wants attention (Czaben)....

Shanahan is a very good coach. I want him here at least 3 more seasons... we need TALENT on offense...

[MLSKINS]

The media attention has gotten pretty pathetic, especially locally and on ComCast. If I have to listen to Brian Mitchell go on another tirade I think I'm gonna vomit. I mean this is obviously a rebuild but these half assed reporters just don't get it, B Mitch and Kelli Johnson really made that clear after Shannys press conference yesterday. They just want to drum up drama.

Yeah, I was really surprised at KJ yesterday. I think she was just scared of B-Mitch or something because the words that came out of her mouth were unbelievable.

[mrredskin]

Czabe isn't a writer. Not sure where that's really coming from.

And I enjoy his morning show.

Spear me all you want, I don't give a s***.

[Destino]

Because its a FOOTBALL COACH.

These guys don't reveal a thing unless they are named Jim Zorn. Rather then trying to parse through words, it was very obvious by the actions this FO took (no big FA signings, no QB drafted) that 2011 would be a non competitive year.

Next year I expect a) impactful signings in the FA market on offense and b) a run at Andrew Luck or picking the next best QB at our top 3 pick.

Which is fine by me
So in your opinion the actions this team took in the offseason show that Shanahan had very little confidence in either John Beck or Rex Grossman? I find that statement to be entirely disconnected from reality. It implies that Shanahan knowingly positioned his football team to have no options at QB other than two guys he knew were bad. Honestly I think that statement would insult Bruce Allen and coach Shanahan. That would imply they were tanking the season or at least not interested at all in winning football games.

I don't see anything at all that supports that claim. Your bizarre interpretation of what the team did in free agency offer nothing that can rationally be argued to support that.

[SkinsHokieFan]

So in your opinion the actions this team took in the offseason show that Shanahan had very little confidence in either John Beck or Rex Grossman? I find that statement to be entirely disconnected from reality. It implies that Shanahan knowingly positioned his football team to have no options at QB other than two guys he knew were bad. Honestly I think that statement would insult Bruce Allen and coach Shanahan. That would imply they were tanking the season or at least not interested at all in winning football games.

I don't see anything at all that supports that claim. Your bizarre interpretation of what the team did in free agency offer nothing that can rationally be argued to support that.

Look at the contracts Beck and Grossman have signed. Beck is operating under a 2 year deal, Grossman a 1 year deal. The reality is these guys were filler for 1 season until they got who they wanted in the 2012 draft and they sold Dan Snyder on this plan. Dan of course needs his big star QB to compete with the other stars in town, Ovechkin, Strasburg, Harper, Wall. Easy sell for Dan, especially if the Redskins lucked into the top pick

These guys aren't going to be here long term. And yes, my opinion hasn't changed since this past summer that these guys had a QB in mind and were going into 2011 with the mindset we would not be competitive.

I think they were more shocked by the 3-1 start then anyone else

[skinsrbeast]

Shanahan is a borderline hall of fame coach. If he were to turn this around he would be a hall of fame coach. If anyone does not think that he wants that they are jus plain wrong.

[TK]

Brothers, as he typically does, nailed it.

Great post. :)

But the thing is, with our media, no matter what he says, they will tear it apart & either find something or make up something to ***** about. The local DC media is a bigger part of what's been wrong with the team in the last ten plus years. Bruce can wine & dine them, upgrade the food in the Press Box, etc, to try to embrace them somewhat, but at the end of the day, it's contraversety that creates cash & sells papers.

[Boss_Hogg]

I'm so with you.

People like Czabe and Dukes need to see the big picture, long term. Not just the here and now of suckness for which we are suffering from a decade of Vinny and Danny running the show.

It's all about the ratings, they can get more attention with bogus conspiracy theories

[MassSkinsFan]

It's all about the ratings, they can get more attention with bogus conspiracy theories

What I think these guys sometimes forget is that people actually like to read good things about the teams they support. I'm pretty sure the generally positive attitude amongst NE sportswriters isnt really hurting cirulation at the Globe or Herald.

[Boss_Hogg]

What I think these guys sometimes forget is that people actually like to read good things about the teams they support. I'm pretty sure the generally positive attitude amongst NE sportswriters isnt really hurting cirulation at the Globe or Herald.

This is DC kind sir.

The sky is always falling!

[MLSKINS]

But the thing is, with our media, no matter what he says, they will tear it apart & either find something or make up something to ***** about.

The perfect example of this was on Redskins Post Game Live on Sunday. Trevor Matich gets it, he knows that we are trying to build something great right now. But the other three idiots were zoning in on the fact that teams like the 49ers and Falcons have had success with first and second year coaches. What those idiots fail to realize is that those teams were teams that had some nice young talent when the coaches came in. When Mike came here last year this roster was shot, he did what he could with it. This year the roster was leaps and bounds better, but the injury bug struck.

Next year this team will be better. I am not saying Super Bowl or paloffs, but we will all be able to tell that the team is better. I know we all want to win now, I am sick and tired of losing all the time, but if this team wants to be great, then have to be patient. It's that simple.

[Mr.Skinbo]

Czabe is a typical "us" fan of the past 20 years, that if his way of thinking perspired we would have another 20 years of mediocrity. "Sham-a-han" received a gawd awful team that needed to have much of the remaining roster dumped. Shannies progressions have been overshadowed by his failures most notably the McNubb debacle which could have been handled better, and we all definitively learned McNubb wasnt the QB he was in Philly. The Haynesworth saga was inherited and Shanny once again handled it not so well, but clearly

Al is not the player he once was, ask PAT's fans how much production their getting from that MFer. I've listened to Shanny speak 100's of times and recently was the first time I heard him mention rebuild, though its not widely discussed, its obvious thats whats going on here. Most level headed fans that want to someday relive the 80s through early 90s need consistency and the only way to get that is to stick with Shannahan. I believe he is righting the ship, he just needs to continue getting young talent and plug them in, who really thought we'd be a playoff team this season, seriously?

[RFKFedEx]

Mike, Kyle, and Jim all need to be back in 2012. If anyone is fired it could derail the rebuilding process. Media and ESers will continue to push for change as the losses mount in 2011, but Snyder has to resist the urge.

Consistency and stability are the only way this team will ever be a winner again. We are going in the right direction despite our record on the field, but that doesn't make good fodder for talk radio.

[Timmy Smith]

Typical bottom-feeding, muckraking "journalism" from subpar sports reporters makes the world go round, in this Internet age. Nothing to see here, move along...

[Son of Gadsden]

I don't watch college football, so until i see the ratings and draft information during the offseason, i pick the one with the coolest name. Last year it was Jake Locker, this year i say Landry Jones. Randy Moss is a beast, as is Santana Moss. Andre Johnson is a Beast, as is Calvin Johnson. Sooooo LaRon LANDRY is a beast, so LANDRY Jones must be a beast too! BOOK IT.

[Mr.Skinbo]

Beahaha, Patriots waived Albert Haynesworth, lets see Bell Belicheck get ridiculed like Shanny did.................wont happen.

[Dub70s]

Add Doc Walker and Coach Thompson to the do not listen to list.

[Horatio]

The Skins only need one dominant defensive player to put them in the Supper Bowl. I hear Albert Haynesworth is available. Shanny, do the right thing and give up next year's #1, #2, and #3 picks for him.

[Destino]

Beahaha, Patriots waived Albert Haynesworth, lets see Bell Belicheck get ridiculed like Shanny did.................wont happen.

How much did they pay him? (serious question). How much more did that fat bastard bank?

[Destino]

Look at the contracts Beck and Grossman have signed. Beck is operating under a 2 year deal, Grossman a 1 year deal. The reality is these guys were filler for 1 season until they got who they wanted in the 2012 draft and they sold Dan Snyder on this plan. Dan of course needs his big star QB to compete with the other stars in town, Ovechkin, Strasburg, Harper, Wall. Easy sell for Dan, especially if the Redskins lucked into the top pick

These guys aren't going to be here long term. And yes, my opinion hasn't changed since this past summer that these guys had a QB in mind and were going into 2011 with the mindset we would not be competitive.

I think they were more shocked by the 3-1 start then anyone else

Didn't Beck sign a 3 year 3.4 million dollar extension before last season? How is that unusual for an unproven QB that the coaches think could develop? I thought the story on Grossman was that they offered him something longer and low but that he wanted a shorter deal (thinking he could succeed lol).

None of that tells me Shanahan knew these guys would fail. I think he thought Beck could develop. I think the moves at wideout going on right now suggest Shanahan is going to try to find some guys that click with Beck. If he fails Shanahan will go in another direction... But I'm not buying that he intended to waltz into this season with two guys he knew couldn't play. You don't bring John Beck here amd extend his contract before 2010 while McNabb had yet to fail if you thought he was a scrub,

[Brotherz]

Brothers, as he typically does, nailed it.

Great post. :)

But the thing is, with our media, no matter what he says, they will tear it apart & either find something or make up something to ***** about. The local DC media is a bigger part of what's been wrong with the team in the last ten plus years. Bruce can wine & dine them, upgrade the food in the Press Box, etc, to try to embrace them somewhat, but at the end of the day, it's contraversety that creates cash & sells papers.

Thanks for the kind words TK. Its interesting what you say about the DC media being a part of what's wrong with the team. I know alot of people will say they have no connection but I can tell you that there is ABSOLUTELY a link between the fan base/media outlets/sports radio etc and the success of the franchise.

After law school I took a job in Philly thinking I'd be there a year or two before I came back to Virginia. As it happens, its harder to move once you establish yourself and I stayed for over a decade. I am CONVINCED after ten years in that miserable town that philly didn't win multiple superbowls at least partially as a result of the fans and WIP radio. You could literally feel it there. You could smell the choke in the air. From morning til night, that city would get so excited as they played these incredibly meaningful games, and they'd have pep rallies, and all the stores were involved, and it was a big party . . . on monday. . . then tuesday. . by Thursday their voices started to shake. They would start suggesting that maybe James Thrash is a problem at Wide Receiver or that the O-line might not be up to par. They would still be arrogant and cocky but you could just feel the stress as the game approached. Its like they knew. And the radio absolutely fanned those flames. They got something out of the week following the choke job. It was undeniable. It was almost like they were secretly or subconsciously rooting for failure. At a minimum they were cognizant that the city felt afraid and they got ratings off the fear. Whether they were stoking the fear or trying to alleviate it, they were involved. As most of us have experienced in our lives, trying to consciously calm down over something you fear often makes it worse. They would start to pose questions by Friday like "if, somehow, at home, as 14 point favorites, against a team that hasn't won in its history in under 35 degrees, after a bye, in the last game to be played at the Vet, they were to somehow manage to lose. would it be {insert superlative catastrophe here}?" And every year, it would happen.

Its not some magic thing either. I am not talking about "The Secret" and "invisible vibrations". Its real. Psychology matters. We are infected by it and so is that team. When you go into every season waiting for the collapse, waiting for them to tease you with competence only to have it unravel, at the first sign of an error on the field there is a collective shallowing of everyone's breath. A dread. And here they stoke it. And they manipulate it and they take advantage of it.

106.7 literally came into existence over it. They wouldn't know what to do with themselves if(when) this team turns it around. They can't look at this objectively for what it is. Because its boring. Its too logical. Its not emotional. It doesn't stoke the collectively fear of the town. There's no drama in "we were a train wreck and its going to take several years to correct this - try watching the game on the micro instead of the macro level - if you do, you can see the plan right in front of you". Its not fear they are stoking though. Here its all about ANGER. Its about the history of the team. I am amazed at how much crap this regime is blamed for that they had literally NOTHING to do with.

[P007]

What a ****ing tool. Seriously. I'm glad I don't listen to or read this guy because it would send me around the bend if this nugget is any indication of his usual reasoning skills.

To suggest that Mike Shanahan is totally clueless about the QB situation - to say he really thinks that either Rex or Bex are high-quality starter material - is plain stupid. Of course he knows they aren't. When he says he understands the QB situation, that doesn't mean he has it solved dumbass. It means he knows how tenuous it is.

Czabe nails it when he says that Shanahan is prepared to take **** from the media. I'm pretty much convinced he's fixing D first then O, within the constraints presented by the need to pursue BPA. WIth so many gaps to fill, it's not a mystery that he pursued McNabb as a placeholder who could provide enough stability to ensure a meaningful evaluation of receivers. Unfortunately he misjudged McNabb's worth. But, if he was really trying to cover up a mistake as Czabe suggests, would he have done what he did with McNabb or would Donovan still be here? I think the latter.

So, Czabe, shut the **** up.

Thank you.

Hail.

What you fail to state is that it wasn't going to work with McNabb, because he had a fallen out with Kyle and that relationship could not be repaired. Both sides took shots at each other through the media and Shanny was compliant. Also Kyle didn't want McNabb he kept saying that Rex could get the job done, also during the off season Shanny and Son didn't address the quarterback situation and Shanny said he could win with both. A lot of this could have been prevented if he said that this was a rebuilding year, however Shanny didn't say it because he thought we could win. Fans need to quit making excuses for Shanny and Son, if this was the Zorn regime fans wouldn't make as many excuses as they make for Shanny and Son.

---------- Post added November-8th-2011 at 05:28 PM ----------


Anyone else find it funny that this argument is essentially "who knows what Shanahan is really thinking?"

Czabe saying he thought this would work because his system is more important is no more or less ridiculous than fans claiming he knew these two QBs would fail. Neither of you are in Shanahan's head and both of you are attributing your own thoughts on the subject to Shanahan. We know what he's done. The rest is just a bunch of fanboys and haters making up reasons for it.

---------- Post added November-8th-2011 at 10:43 AM ----------

Why not just take him at his word at the beginning of the season? Is it really unthinkable that he thought Rex, who he favored over McNabb, and John Beck, who he hand picked, were players he felt would succeed? He said as much and he took us into the season with just these two QBs. Those were his actions and they fit perfectly with his words. Why are we suddenly playing psychic and deciding that he didn't really mean it and what he really meant was XYZ.

You are right on point Destino. These are the same people that swear up and down that Shanny is the greatest coach of the past 2 decades, but when you bring up his playoff wins of 1 in 10 years, in which he was in a weak AFC West division, they ignore those facts. Just like they ignore the fact that we have been out coached and prepared 2 years in a row coming off a bye week, which to me is unacceptable and is totally on the coaching staff.

[Hitman21ST]

You are right on point Destino. These are the same people that swear up and down that Shanny is the greatest coach of the past 2 decades, but when you bring up his playoff wins of 1 in 10 years, in which he was in a weak AFC West division, they ignore those facts. Just like they ignore the fact that we have been out coached and prepared 2 years in a row coming off a bye week, which to me is unacceptable and is totally on the coaching staff.

Um, no?

Shanny is one of the better coaches of the past two decades, but not the best.

And you're seriously using two single games as an example of his coaching ineptitude? How about I use him getting six wins out of last year's joke of a team, including beating BOTH teams that were in the NFC Championship game?

[NLC1054]

Um, no?

Shanny is one of the better coaches of the past two decades, but not the best.

And you're seriously using two single games as an example of his coaching ineptitude? How about I use him getting six wins out of last year's joke of a team, including beating BOTH teams that were in the NFC Championship game?

Or how about the fact that the Eagles are flat out a better team than us and that we match up horribly with them as long as they have number 7 under center?

Can you argue than any of the teams we lost to aren't better than us? Even Carolina is better than us right now.

Sometimes you do everything right during the week and still get your ass kicked. So goes the NFL.

[Hitman21ST]

Or how about the fact that the Eagles are flat out a better team than us and that we match up horribly with them as long as they have number 7 under center?

Can you argue than any of the teams we lost to aren't better than us? Even Carolina is better than us right now.

Sometimes you do everything right during the week and still get your ass kicked. So goes the NFL.

That too, I was just trying to come up with a new argument.

[P007]

Um, no?

Shanny is one of the better coaches of the past two decades, but not the best.

And you're seriously using two single games as an example of his coaching ineptitude? How about I use him getting six wins out of last year's joke of a team, including beating BOTH teams that were in the NFC Championship game?

The man has amassed 1 playoff win in the last 10 years. That is not elite. Let me ask you this, how many coaches would still have a job with a record like that?

[Hitman21ST]

The man has amassed 1 playoff win in the last 10 years. That is not elite. Let me ask you this, how many coaches would still have a job with a record like that?

How many playoff wins have the Bengals had the past ten years?

What about the Texans?

Falcons?

Buccaneers?

Lions?

---------- Post added November-8th-2011 at 10:45 PM ----------

Bengals: 0
Texans: 0
Falcons: 2 (0 since 2004)
Buccaneers: 3 (all in one season, 2002)
Lions: 0

[Jumbo]

<edit crap>These are the same people that swear up and down that Shanny is the greatest coach of the past 2 decades, but when you bring up his playoff wins of 1 in 10 years, in which he was in a weak AFC West division, they ignore those facts. <edit other crap>.

Well, aside of what one can already see of my opinion of your views, I am going to resist noting your location and your NNT as further ground to impugn the intelligence of your comments. :pfft: :evilg:

But I do want you to prove something (and I'm serious). I want you to find me one post from anyone that categorically proves this assertion:
These are the same people that swear up and down that Shanny is the greatest coach of the past 2 decades,

You need to show me one post that makes that precise claim about Shanahan or else admit you are talking out your ass. And when I say you "need" to, that's exactly what I mean. :)

[P007]

How many playoff wins have the Bengals had the past ten years?

What about the Texans?

Falcons?

Buccaneers?

Lions?

---------- Post added November-8th-2011 at 10:45 PM ----------

Bengals: 0
Texans: 0
Falcons: 2 (0 since 2004)
Buccaneers: 3 (all in one season, 2002)
Lions: 0


Gibbs 2.0 had the same number of playoff wins. We were better off with Gibbs 2.0 then with Shanny, and there were many people that said Gibbs has lost it. Many Shanny isn't who you thought he was?

[Hitman21ST]

Gibbs 2.0 had the same number of playoff wins. We were better off with Gibbs 2.0 then with Shanny, and there were many people that said Gibbs has lost it. Many Shanny isn't who you thought he was?

Lose an argument, change the parameters. :thumbsup:

Considering the team was in a whole lot better shape when Gibbs came back (oh yeah, and we drafted a certain Sean Taylor with Gibbs first pick) than when Shanny came in, that's not surprising. Maybe you have your agenda blinders on?

[P007]

How many playoff wins have the Bengals had the past ten years?

What about the Texans?

Falcons?

The point is the man was coaching in Denver, and post Elway in his last 10 years there he had 1 playoff win, that is not good. Also the teams you have listed haven't had the same coach for a 10 year run so you are making my point. Do you honestly think any of the teams you have listed would keep a coach for 10 years and only have 1 playoff win to show for it?

Buccaneers?

Lions?

---------- Post added November-8th-2011 at 10:45 PM ----------

Bengals: 0
Texans: 0
Falcons: 2 (0 since 2004)
Buccaneers: 3 (all in one season, 2002)
Lions: 0

---------- Post added November-8th-2011 at 10:20 PM ----------


Lose an argument, change the parameters. :thumbsup:

Considering the team was in a whole lot better shape when Gibbs came back (oh yeah, and we drafted a certain Sean Taylor with Gibbs first pick) than when Shanny came in, that's not surprising. Maybe you have your agenda blinders on?

I am not changing the parameters I am making a point. Gibbs 2.0 is better than Shanny hands down, that is my argument. This team will go no where with him as coach.

[Hitman21ST]

The point is the man was coaching in Denver, and post Elway in his last 10 years there he had 1 playoff win, that is not good. Also the teams you have listed haven't had the same coach for a 10 year run so you are making my point. Do you honestly think any of the teams you have listed would keep a coach for 10 years and only have 1 playoff win to show for it?

Marvin Lewis is in his 9th season with no playoff wins. Kubiak is in his 6th without a playoff appearance.

[NLC1054]

Marvin Lewis is in his 9th season with no playoff wins. Kubiak is in his 6th without a playoff appearance.

Pfft. Logic. Who needs it?

[Hitman21ST]

I am not changing the parameters I am making a point. Gibbs 2.0 is better than Shanny hands down, that is my argument. This team will go no where with him as coach.

You asked me to name teams with coaches who have been around awhile with one or less playoff wins. I named five. So you changed your argument to "yeah, well he's no Gibbs."

By the way, you still haven't done what Jumbo wanted you to do, which is point out anyone (with a quote) who said that Shanahan is
the greatest coach of the past 2 decades.

You might want to look into that.

[Jumbo]

P007. You've made a few posts since I gave you an instruction. And you're continuing to step all over yourself in the process re: your exchanges with Hitman--for example, he's absolutely right that you did indeed change the parameters. Most of what you argued here has been little more than overstated and under-informed opinionated flapping. However, I'm being appropriately patient. But you'd do well not to continue to ignore my post. :)

[Destino]

The man has amassed 1 playoff win in the last 10 years. That is not elite. Let me ask you this, how many coaches would still have a job with a record like that?



Bengals: 0
Texans: 0
Falcons: 2 (0 since 2004)
Buccaneers: 3 (all in one season, 2002)
Lions: 0


Marvin Lewis is in his 9th season with no playoff wins. Kubiak is in his 6th without a playoff appearance.

To be fair you didn't meet the parameters of his question. He asked about coaches not teams. He couldn't hold his ground well enough to point out that you made his point for him. Only two head coaches I can see have held their current seat for 10+ years (Belichick and Reid). In fact there are only 6 head coaches with 10 years or more head coaching experience in the league currently occupying any head coaching position. Lets look at them and their post season wins in the last 10 years:

John Fox - 3 playoff wins, 1 superbowl appearance.
Bill Belichick - 3 superbowl wins, 4 superbowl appearances
Tom Coughlin - 3 playoff wins, 1 superbowl win
Andy Reid - 9 playoff wins
Norv Turner - 3 playoff wins
Mike Shanahan - 1 playoff win

9 years:
Jack Del Rio - 1 playoff win
Marvin Lewis - 0 playoff wins.

You know what that list tells me? Shanahan needs to find a QB and not take a job with the Bengals. :)

[brandymac27]

You know what that list tells me? Shanahan needs to find a QB and not take a job with the Bengals. :)

Patience grasshopper! Mike will draft us a QB in a couple of months :D

[Hitman21ST]

To be fair you didn't meet the parameters of his question. He asked about coaches not teams. He couldn't hold his ground well enough to point out that you made his point for him. Only two head coaches I can see have held their current seat for 10+ years (Belichick and Reid). In fact there are only 6 head coaches with 10 years or more head coaching experience in the league currently occupying any head coaching position. Lets look at them and their post season wins in the last 10 years:

Fair enough, but his question has a flaw in it by itself. To be a head coach for one team for at least ten years with one team in and of itself means the coach is pretty damn good. If you look at the list of coaches who have done that recently, it's very short.

That one playoff win still netted him another AFC Championship game. He coached that team well enough to get the bye in the playoffs. I'm not saying it counts as a second win, but you have to lend some sort of credibility to that.

I also did the next best thing in bringing up Marvin Lewis and Gary Kubiak - coaches who have kept their jobs for a significant amount of time without playoff success.

[SkinsFTW]

I'm so with you.

People like Czabe and Dukes need to see the big picture, long term. Not just the here and now of suckness for which we are suffering from a decade of Vinny and Danny running the show.


Skins fans need to see the big picture. These guys aren't paid to do that and they aren't paid Redskins fans. They are paid to hype up whatever will get them be best ratings that particular week. When the team averages 15 points a game and has 2 QB's that wouldn't even be 3rd string on some teams, it's not hard to find things to blow out of proportion.

[maskedsuperstar]

The media attention has gotten pretty pathetic, especially locally and on ComCast. If I have to listen to Brian Mitchell go on another tirade I think I'm gonna vomit. I mean this is obviously a rebuild but these half assed reporters just don't get it, B Mitch and Kelli Johnson really made that clear after Shannys press conference yesterday. They just want to drum up drama.

Shanny came out and said that he had to rebuild this team. HE SAID THAT!!!!!!! And those 2 totally missed it. I don't know what is wrong with B Mitch. The guy just loves to *****!!!

[MassSkinsFan]

What you fail to state is that it wasn't going to work with McNabb, because he had a fallen out with Kyle and that relationship could not be repaired. Both sides took shots at each other through the media and Shanny was compliant. Also Kyle didn't want McNabb he kept saying that Rex could get the job done, also during the off season Shanny and Son didn't address the quarterback situation and Shanny said he could win with both. A lot of this could have been prevented if he said that this was a rebuilding year, however Shanny didn't say it because he thought we could win. Fans need to quit making excuses for Shanny and Son, if this was the Zorn regime fans wouldn't make as many excuses as they make for Shanny and Son.[COLOR="Gold"]


If you go back and look at the post to which you replied, you'll see that I'm talking about his intent from the beginning, not what he intended to do after it started to become clear that McRibb was not the man Shanny thought he was.

As for Rex and Bex, I imagine they had their doubts, but as has been rehashed ad infinitum here already, had reasons for not expressing them. Ditto the rebuilding year thing.

Oh, and you should answer Jumbo. Really.

[Destino]

Fair enough, but his question has a flaw in it by itself. To be a head coach for one team for at least ten years with one team in and of itself means the coach is pretty damn good. If you look at the list of coaches who have done that recently, it's very short.

That one playoff win still netted him another AFC Championship game. He coached that team well enough to get the bye in the playoffs. I'm not saying it counts as a second win, but you have to lend some sort of credibility to that.

I also did the next best thing in bringing up Marvin Lewis and Gary Kubiak - coaches who have kept their jobs for a significant amount of time without playoff success.
I'm not in the camp that believes Mike Shanahan is a bad head coach. I'll admit that I have my doubts about hiring superbowl winning head coaches, or big name head coaches for that matter, to turn it all around. I don't think that strategy yields results that match the lofty expectations that come with big names and impressive resumes.

Having said that you are absolutely correct, to hold a job for that long you've had to have done something right. I think lost in all the numbers though is the simple fact that you need a QB to win in the modern NFL and the redskins don't have one. If Shanahan is able to secure that piece I can't say "superbowl" but I'm sure this team gets much better over the next three years.