Interesting facts about teams before they chose their franchise quarterbacks.

[NLC1054]

I keep seeing people ask "How could Mike let it get this bad! How could he let Rex Grossman and John Beck be the only quarterbacks on this roster! How could he pick THESE guys!"

It is my firmly held belief that Mike wasn't looking for either of these guys to become franchise quarterbacks, but be that Jake Plummer-esque bridge to when we could draft our ACTUAL franchise guys. Obviously, both of our guys suck.

But it's really interesting, when you look at it, the quarterback situations other teams have found themselves in before they found their franchise guys.

In 2008, the Atlanta Falcons picked Matt Ryan second overall. In 2007, however, they played THREE different quarterbacks throughout the season in the wake of the Michael Vick and Bobby Petrino disaster.

Joey Harrington, former first round bust of the Lions, threw for a whopping 2215 yards, 7 touchdowns and 8 interceptions in TEN STARTS. Chris Redman threw more touchdowns (10 touchdowns to 5 interceptions) than Harrington, but went 1-3 in his 4 starts. Byron Leftwich started 2 games games, and only threw for 279 yards and 1 touchdown to 3 interceptions.

Also drafted in 2008 was Joe Flacco. The Ravens also started three diferent quarterbacks in one season. Kyle Boller (1743 yards, 9 touchdowns, 10 interceptions) was 2-6 as the starter of the Ravens, Steve McNair was 2-4 (1113 yards, 2 touchdowns and 4 interceptions), and Troy Smith was 1-1 (452 yards, 2 touchdowns, no interceptions).

We all know how bad the Lions have been over the past decade. Before drafting Matt Stafford first overall, in 2008, the Lions started three different quarterbacks. To make matters worse, than ended up playing five different quarterbacks at some point through out the season on their way to a historic 0-16 record. The FIVE quarterbacks (Dan Orlovsky, Jon Kitna, Dante Culpepper, Drew Stanton, and Drew Henson) ended up with a combined statline of 3,299 yards, 18 touchdowns, and 19 interceptions.

Before the Rams could draft Bradford, in 2009, they started three different quarterbacks. Marc Bulger, Kyle Boller (who would sign him willingly...) and Keith Null all started for them. Their statline combined makes the Lions statline from 2008 look like a friggin' amazing---2970 yards, 12 touchdowns and 22 interceptions.

In 2010, the Panthers started Matt Moore, Jimmy Clausen and Brian St. Pierre, and had to play Tony Pike in another game...

Do you get where I'm going with this?

Look; I know that it hasn't been sunshine and rainbows, dealing with Rex and John Beck. But look how many teams have had to deal with EXTREMELY crappy quarterback play to get their franchise guy. That's not to excuse the two of them. Just a bit of a reminder that this isn't completely in vain. I'm not in favor of tanking, or "Sucking for Luck". But if there's one thing we can take solace in, it's 1.) that our guys are at least getting open, available to make plays, and 2.) every bad game by these bozos gets us one step closer to drafting our franchise guy.

Regardless of what happened, we were going to draft our franchise guy. This just makes it more likely we'll be able to get him. I truly feel Mike never though these guys were franchise caliber quarterbacks. When he said he staked his reputation on them, I think it was an overexaggeration and a poor choice of words. Regardless of what happens, it's not like what the NFL is going to take his three Super Bowl rings away.

He believed these two guys could be better than what they are. He was wrong. Oh well. Time to move on. At the end of the day, this is going to be better for us. These are the guys we've got for now, and they're interchangeably bad in seperate ways.

But I thought it was interesting that pretty much every team that found itself in as crappy of a quarterback situation as us ended up with a franchise quarterback that's pretty good. Maybe it's just the high draft pick and it's coincidence, but if they could do it, why not us?

Just 8 more games until we get our franchise quarterback, guys.

Until then, patience.

[MrJL]

are guys are getting open, available to make plays, but until we get a QB to deliever the ball we've got no idea about their hands.

[Hitman21ST]

That's some good insight there NLC. To extend it even more, the year before the Colts drafted Manning, they started Jim Harbaugh (2060 yards, 10 TDs, 4 INTs), Paul Justin (1046 yards, 5 TDs, 5 INTs), and Kelly Holcomb (454 yards, 1 TD, 8 INTs). They also went 3-13 that year.

[dfitzo53]

I think it's important that I say first that I agree with your other thread on the nature of a rebuilding year.

That said, poor quarterback play and multi-QB seasons are not something new in D.C. It's entirely possible that we'll follow in the footsteps of the Lions and find someone who looks to be a true franchise QB in the next year or two. It's also possible that this is just another year in a string of 20 or so with no true solution at quarterback. Your thread seems to imply that a season or two of terrible quarterback play is a sign that better things are on the horizon. That's simply not so, and you've basically cherry-picked examples from recent history that fit your case.

This line is especially hard to support: "But I thought it was interesting that pretty much every team that found itself in as crappy of a quarterback situation as us ended up with a franchise quarterback that's pretty good."

What about Seattle? Minnesota, pending Christian Ponder's performance over the next couple years? Cleveland? Miami? Our own team? That's just taking a quick look around the league this year, not even looking back a few years. It remains to be seen whether the Panthers and Bengals really have their QBs of the future, although I think things generally look good for them.

For that matter, it remains to be seen whether Tampa Bay, Atlanta, the NY Jets, Oakland and St. Louis, among others, really have the kind of QB you can hang your hat on.

Edit: And teams like the Bills, Bears and Texans have had to suffer through horrendous QB play for a lot longer than 2-3 years to find their guys.

[Hitman21ST]

For that matter, it remains to be seen whether Tampa Bay, Atlanta, the NY Jets, Oakland and St. Louis, among others, really have the kind of QB you can hang your hat on.


Save for the Raiders, it's safe to say all those teams have their QB for the next 7-10 years.

[dfitzo53]

Save for the Raiders, it's safe to say all those teams have their QB for the next 7-10 years.
None of them currently has a QB rating (flawed system, blah blah blah, it's still useful for comparison) above 85. Matt Ryan for example is surrounded with the kind of offensive weapons most quarterbacks never get the chance to see, and he's turning in a pretty average performance. Will they make a move at quarterback any time soon, considering the other needs they have? Most likely not. Still though, I would maintain that none of them got quite the player they were hoping for. If you rank the entire league in any of the major categories, those guys rarely crack the top 12.

Bradford is a little different in that he's on such a struggling team he's had very little chance to actually prove himself.

[ashlynskins]

seriously...please tell me you wouldn't give your left leg for a Matt Ryan, Josh Freeman, Mark Sanchez (who let me remind you has been to 2 AFC Championships and could be a 3rd)..over what we have....LOL...c-mon now you don't believe barring any major injury that these QB's are planted in these franchises for several years to come.

[Wildbunny]

So basically, what this prooves is that teams that struggles with many QB within a single year, ends up with picking first in the upcoming draft.
I guessed that :)
Struggling doesn't make sure you're gonna have some success later.

[Redskindon2]

I think it's important that I say first that I agree with your other thread on the nature of a rebuilding year.

That said, poor quarterback play and multi-QB seasons are not something new in D.C. It's entirely possible that we'll follow in the footsteps of the Lions and find someone who looks to be a true franchise QB in the next year or two. It's also possible that this is just another year in a string of 20 or so with no true solution at quarterback. Your thread seems to imply that a season or two of terrible quarterback play is a sign that better things are on the horizon. That's simply not so, and you've basically cherry-picked examples from recent history that fit your case.

This line is especially hard to support: "But I thought it was interesting that pretty much every team that found itself in as crappy of a quarterback situation as us ended up with a franchise quarterback that's pretty good."

What about Seattle? Minnesota, pending Christian Ponder's performance over the next couple years? Cleveland? Miami? Our own team? That's just taking a quick look around the league this year, not even looking back a few years. It remains to be seen whether the Panthers and Bengals really have their QBs of the future, although I think things generally look good for them.

For that matter, it remains to be seen whether Tampa Bay, Atlanta, the NY Jets, Oakland and St. Louis, among others, really have the kind of QB you can hang your hat on.

Edit: And teams like the Bills, Bears and Texans have had to suffer through horrendous QB play for a lot longer than 2-3 years to find their guys.

Exactly!!! The thing is, we have sucked @$$ for a long time. and us FANS!!! are tired of losing year after year with the promise of next year being better. Shanny could have done something better at QB than Beck and Grossman. Why didn't he look at Bulger or someone other than what we have. Even McNabb would have been better. And what happens next when we draft this so called franchise QB and he sucks just like all of our other 1st round QB picks. I am a DIEHARD skins fan. but enough is enough. I can't take losing any more. I'm tired of being the laughing stock of a fan. I have to watch the Raven fans enjoy success year after year. How come SF turned it around in less then a year with little change other than the coaching staff who I might add had virtually no off season to prepare because of the lockout. Are you telling me that SF wasn't in cap hell and sucking @$$ for the last few years and now their 7-1? What are they doing so much different than us? Alex Smith wasn't getting it done before. Now he is? Is Harbaugh that much of a genious? No matter what coach we have had in the last 10 years our offense has just been horrible. If everyone wants to blame the oline all the time then why not draft oline help for the last 5 years to shore it up then. Some of it has to be coaching and some of it has to be attitude. They are just so used to being losers they don't know how to get up for a win. Can you see I'm tired of losing? ok I'll stop here...sorry for the rant...

[dfitzo53]

Exactly!!! The thing is, we have sucked @$$ for a long time. and us FANS!!! are tired of losing year after year with the promise of next year being better. Shanny could have done something better at QB than Beck and Grossman. Why didn't he look at Bulger or someone other than what we have. Even McNabb would have been better. And what happens next when we draft this so called franchise QB and he sucks just like all of our other 1st round QB picks. I am a DIEHARD skins fan. but enough is enough. I can't take losing any more. I'm tired of being the laughing stock of a fan. I have to watch the Raven fans enjoy success year after year. How come SF turned it around in less then a year with little change other than the coaching staff who I might add had virtually no off season to prepare because of the lockout. Are you telling me that SF wasn't in cap hell and sucking @$$ for the last few years and now their 7-1? What are they doing so much different than us? Alex Smith wasn't getting it done before. Now he is? Is Harbaugh that much of a genious? No matter what coach we have had in the last 10 years our offense has just been horrible. If everyone wants to blame the oline all the time then why not draft oline help for the last 5 years to shore it up then. Some of it has to be coaching and some of it has to be attitude. They are just so used to being losers they don't know how to get up for a win. Can you see I'm tired of losing? ok I'll stop here...sorry for the rant...

In a lot of ways, that wasn't my point. Bulger isn't starting anywhere else and McNabb has already lost his job to a rookie on an offense with some decent firepower. (A bit lacking at WR, but not terrible.) From what I understand, Bulger was pretty comfortable retiring anyway.

I don't fault Shanahan for having Beck and Grossman at QB this year. Grossman actually looked pretty solid at the end of last year, even into the beginning of this year before the wheels fell off. I just don't necessarily believe it means the next great thing is right around the corner. I've been hoping that for just about 20 years now.

@ashlyn: The Jets made it to the Conference championship despite Sanchez, not because of him. They had (and in many ways still have) a punishing defense, although their running game has fallen off, and now they're struggling. They run hot and cold and Sanchez is still making the kind of mistakes that you chalk up to inexperience - except that he can no longer claim to be inexperienced.

Would I consider any of those guys as a QB for us right now on a short contract? Sure. Do I really think any of them would be here long term, Matt Ryan and Freeman included? No. They would most likely go the way of Trent Green and Brad Johnson, good but unspectacular players who spend of a few years here before the next thing comes along for them.

[skinsdude]

None of them currently has a QB rating (flawed system, blah blah blah, it's still useful for comparison) above 85. Matt Ryan for example is surrounded with the kind of offensive weapons most quarterbacks never get the chance to see, and he's turning in a pretty average performance. Will they make a move at quarterback any time soon, considering the other needs they have? Most likely not. Still though, I would maintain that none of them got quite the player they were hoping for. If you rank the entire league in any of the major categories, those guys rarely crack the top 12.

Bradford is a little different in that he's on such a struggling team he's had very little chance to actually prove himself.

All of those quarterbacks led their respective teams to better records last year than ours. Mark Sanchez led the Jets to the AFC conference game and Matt Ryan took the Falcon to the NFC divisional game. Josh Freeman led the Bucs to 10-6. I will take any one of them.

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

In a lot of ways, that wasn't my point. Bulger isn't starting anywhere else and McNabb has already lost his job to a rookie on an offense with some decent firepower. (A bit lacking at WR, but not terrible.) From what I understand, Bulger was pretty comfortable retiring anyway.

I don't fault Shanahan for having Beck and Grossman at QB this year. Grossman actually looked pretty solid at the end of last year, even into the beginning of this year before the wheels fell off. I just don't necessarily believe it means the next great thing is right around the corner. I've been hoping that for just about 20 years now.

@ashlyn: The Jets made it to the Conference championship despite Sanchez, not because of him. They had (and in many ways still have) a punishing defense, although their running game has fallen off, and now they're struggling. They run hot and cold and Sanchez is still making the kind of mistakes that you chalk up to inexperience - except that he can no longer claim to be inexperienced.

Would I consider any of those guys as a QB for us right now on a short contract? Sure. Do I really think any of them would be here long term, Matt Ryan and Freeman included? No. They would most likely go the way of Trent Green and Brad Johnson, good but unspectacular players who spend of a few years here before the next thing comes along for them.

Very good write-up.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

couldnt agree more. but in order for this to make sense, dont we have to have a 3rd ****ty starter at some point? that kid on the practice squad, maybe he can start a few games to make sure we keep the cycle of 3 or more terrible QBs to get our franchise guy?

[War Paint]

Yeah, I'm to the point now where I've changed my stance. I was wanting us to win at all costs. Now is time to just go into the "last year's Panthers" mode and lose out. We look like we are going that way because watching our offense looks eerily similar to the Clausen led Panthers last year. I'm not a college QB expert but from what I keep hearing, the next draft is supposed to be one of the strongest QB classes in years. This is our true shot to get the franchise guy. 8-8 will drop us too far down. We need to suck and lose out. I normally hate that stance. I usually get angry when I see people say "suck for Luck" and such, but it is clear that we are the one team in the NFC East that hasn't had a franchise QB. Now is the time to get that guy and if the QB class is as good as people are saying, we might find the guy who can help us turn things around.

[TK]

But if there's one thing we can take solace in, it's 1.) that our guys are at least getting open, available to make plays, and 2.) every bad game by these bozos gets us one step closer to drafting our franchise guy.

Regardless of what happened, we were going to draft our franchise guy. This just makes it more likely we'll be able to get him. I truly feel Mike never though these guys were franchise caliber quarterbacks. When he said he staked his reputation on them, I think it was an overexaggeration and a poor choice of words. Regardless of what happens, it's not like what the NFL is going to take his three Super Bowl rings away.

He believed these two guys could be better than what they are. He was wrong. Oh well. Time to move on. At the end of the day, this is going to be better for us. These are the guys we've got for now, and they're interchangeably bad in seperate ways.

You're very close.:)

Here's what you missed. That year off Shanny had between here & Denver, he spent time during training camps with & studing a few teams. Teams like the Pats & the Steelers. Both ran the 3-4. Both are held up as model franchises. Both had a pretty good Defense with an offense that wasn't quite firing on all cylinders. Then the Pats stuck oil with Brady when they inserted a rookie QB. Look at them now. They give the entire League a case of Lombardi envy. Same with the Steelers. Defense was lights out, Offense, not what it should have been doing. And then they land Big Ben in the Draft & win 2 out of 3 Super Bowl appearences.

Back to your #1 above, yes guys are getting open. Our QB play just flatout sucks more then a Hoover. We're pretty much on par with where the Pats & Steelers were before Brady & Big Ben. Our Defense is still pretty damned good while our Offense is a few cogs short to work the way it should.

Our scouts are pretty much focused on every QB coming out in the Draft. I just hope no team decides to dump their GM (Chicago) and make a run at Morocco Brown any time soon.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Our scouts are pretty much focused on every QB coming out in the Draft. I just hope no team decides to dump their GM (Chicago) and make a run at Morocco Brown any time soon.

That's great to hear. So it's safe to assume that we'll be using a high draft choice on the best available QB? Do you know how many they are high on? Of course, Luck would be great, but if we can get someone who is going to be a nice long-term solution and still use the rest of our draft to build around him, that would be ideal.

[NLC1054]

You're very close.:)

Here's what you missed. That year off Shanny had between here & Denver, he spent time during training camps with & studing a few teams. Teams like the Pats & the Steelers. Both ran the 3-4. Both are held up as model franchises. Both had a pretty good Defense with an offense that wasn't quite firing on all cylinders. Then the Pats stuck oil with Brady when they inserted a rookie QB. Look at them now. They give the entire League a case of Lombardi envy. Same with the Steelers. Defense was lights out, Offense, not what it should have been doing. And then they land Big Ben in the Draft & win 2 out of 3 Super Bowl appearences.

Back to your #1 above, yes guys are getting open. Our QB play just flatout sucks more then a Hoover. We're pretty much on par with where the Pats & Steelers were before Brady & Big Ben. Our Defense is still pretty damned good while our Offense is a few cogs short to work the way it should.

Our scouts are pretty much focused on every QB coming out in the Draft. I just hope no team decides to dump their GM (Chicago) and make a run at Morocco Brown any time soon.

Aw yes, I'd almost forgotten to add that before drafting Big Ben, the Steelers started Tommy Maddox for 16 games. His number weren't horrible, but clearly not as good as his magical comeback season. And Drew Bledsoe's numbers had been trending downwards for two seasons before Tom Brady.

It's just interesting that people seem to be implying that Mike doesn't know how important the quarterback position is. I think he realized it when he drafted Cutler, and his time off only strengthened his belief.

[hitmandm]

It was clear to me what happened. The Redskins wanted locker but the Titans grabbed him at 8. We were forced to sit on Becka nd Grossman without hope until this year.

[TK]

Aw yes, I'd almost forgotten to add that before drafting Big Ben, the Steelers started Tommy Maddox for 16 games. His number weren't horrible, but clearly not as good as his magical comeback season. And Drew Bledsoe's numbers had been trending downwards for two seasons before Tom Brady.
Maddox, Bledsoe, & Rex in those last 3 games after McNabb was benched. Those guys at those times pretty much mirrored each other with their play didn't they. :)

[The Batman]

Out of curiosity, TK or any other insiders, you probably aren't able to speak about this but a name I'm seeing associated with the Redskins with increasing frequency in mock drafts around the Internet is Robert Griffin III. Do you know if that's a name our scouts are batting around at all, if they take him seriously as a prospect/their opinion of him as a passer, and what the chances are that we would target someone like him in the event that Luck is not reachable?

[PeterMP]

You're very close.:)

Here's what you missed. That year off Shanny had between here & Denver, he spent time during training camps with & studing a few teams. Teams like the Pats & the Steelers. Both ran the 3-4. Both are held up as model franchises. Both had a pretty good Defense with an offense that wasn't quite firing on all cylinders. Then the Pats stuck oil with Brady when they inserted a rookie QB. Look at them now. They give the entire League a case of Lombardi envy. Same with the Steelers. Defense was lights out, Offense, not what it should have been doing. And then they land Big Ben in the Draft & win 2 out of 3 Super Bowl appearences.

Back to your #1 above, yes guys are getting open. Our QB play just flatout sucks more then a Hoover. We're pretty much on par with where the Pats & Steelers were before Brady & Big Ben. Our Defense is still pretty damned good while our Offense is a few cogs short to work the way it should.

Our scouts are pretty much focused on every QB coming out in the Draft. I just hope no team decides to dump their GM (Chicago) and make a run at Morocco Brown any time soon.
You think this team is a QB away from being a SuperBowl contender (Pittsburgh and the Patriots actually won it)?

[TK]

You think this team is a QB away from being a SuperBowl contender?

Only? No. Important piece? Yes.


Another thing, since I keep hearing how all these other teams turn around in a year with a new or rookie Head Coach. It's taken Jim Schwartz 4 years to turn Detroit around. And we all know the Lions were considered a joke thoughout the League. The bigger the mess, the longer it takes the right guy to turn it around. We're still at least two years out from being competive.

***********
EDIT
***********
After posting the above I clicked on the OP's other thread (http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?357866-What-s-more-important-to-the-Redskins-future-success-losing-or-a-solid-front-office-and-coaching-staff). Glad to him make the Detroit reference as well, though in a bit of a different way. :)

[Boss_Hogg]

Hopefully John Beck will play the eight remaining games of the season. That will ensure a top 3 pick.

[PeterMP]

Only? No. Important piece? Yes.


Another thing, since I keep hearing how all these other teams turn around in a year with a new or rookie Head Coach. It's taken Jim Schwartz 4 years to turn Detroit around. And we all know the Lions were considered a joke thoughout the League. The bigger the mess, the longer it takes the right guy to turn it around. We're still at least two years out from being competive.
I think you and I then are in a similar place. I believe I've said before that they could compete in 2 years, if they get really lucky.

[VRIEL1]

Ok so I'm just going to ask the OP. .... are you suggesting the team start Jonathan Crompton like I have been? cause basically what your saying is each of those teams prior to picking their franchise QB played atleast 3 QB's during the season prior do drafting said franchise QB. The Skins have only used 2 (Grossman,Beck). So essentially we need to start another QB in order for the cards to fall into place and we are able to draft our guru franchise QB in the next draft.

Honestly I'd probably give the starting job back to Grossman at this point but MS does not see it that way. Beck will be the starter. But at some point that I know the season is a wash maybe after 2 more losses.... I'd start Crompton just to see what he can do and to see if he's worth keeping next year.

[Bang]

Edit: And teams like the Bills, Bears and Texans have had to suffer through horrendous QB play for a lot longer than 2-3 years to find their guys.

I would add that the Texans suffered through it with their first overall draft choice Franchise QB.
They traded for Schaub, who really had not show a whole lot. He had some nice games as a backup, but very limited in terms of how much playing time anyone actually saw out of him.

and the moral of the story is that the Franchise may not come via the draft.
There is no formula.

~Bang

[Botched]

You're very close.:)

Here's what you missed. That year off Shanny had between here & Denver, he spent time during training camps with & studing a few teams. Teams like the Pats & the Steelers. Both ran the 3-4. Both are held up as model franchises. Both had a pretty good Defense with an offense that wasn't quite firing on all cylinders. Then the Pats stuck oil with Brady when they inserted a rookie QB. Look at them now. They give the entire League a case of Lombardi envy. Same with the Steelers. Defense was lights out, Offense, not what it should have been doing. And then they land Big Ben in the Draft & win 2 out of 3 Super Bowl appearences.

Back to your #1 above, yes guys are getting open. Our QB play just flatout sucks more then a Hoover. We're pretty much on par with where the Pats & Steelers were before Brady & Big Ben. Our Defense is still pretty damned good while our Offense is a few cogs short to work the way it should.

Our scouts are pretty much focused on every QB coming out in the Draft. I just hope no team decides to dump their GM (Chicago) and make a run at Morocco Brown any time soon.

You know I was recently thinking how similar we are to this year's Patriots.

We both have proven, veteran coaches with multiple Super Bowl rings. We both run a 3-4 defense, only ours is a little better. We both have a bunch of possession wide receivers with no real downfield game breakers. The receiving strength from both teams is at tight end. They have the better offensive line. Neither team has a strong running game. We are a little better on special teams.

What separates the 2011 Redskins from the 2011 Patriots is mostly one position. They have one of the best quarterbacks in the game, we easily have the worst.

Honestly, as horrible as we look right now, we are one player away from being a solid playoff team. It just so happens that that player is the most important one.

[pjfootballer]

I would add that the Texans suffered through it with their first overall draft choice Franchise QB.
They traded for Schaub, who really had not show a whole lot. He had some nice games as a backup, but very limited in terms of how much playing time anyone actually saw out of him.

and the moral of the story is that the Franchise may not come via the draft.
There is no formula.

~Bang

What frustrates people around here is that no matter what formula we use, we can't seem to find our guy. Shuler, Frerotte, Ramsey, Campbell (draft). George, Hostetler, Banks, B. Johnson (free agents) or McNabb, Brunell (trades), we seem to not find anything. But I think the best way for "us" right now is to find one in this years draft. I just don't see a Matt Cassell/Schaub trade on the horizon or a "have to have" free agent (Matt Flynn? Barf!!) out there. First round pick will be a QB for the Washington Redskins in 2012.

[skinsdude]

What frustrates people around here is that no matter what formula we use, we can't seem to find our guy. Shuler, Frerotte, Ramsey, Campbell (draft). George, Hostetler, Banks, B. Johnson (free agents) or McNabb, Brunell (trades), we seem to not find anything. But I think the best way for "us" right now is to find one in this years draft. I just don't see a Matt Cassell/Schaub trade on the horizon or a "have to have" free agent (Matt Flynn? Barf!!) out there. First round pick will be a QB for the Washington Redskins in 2012.

Agreed. In addition, when we did have a decent QB we let him go. Trent Green, Brad Johnson, and Stan Humphries come to mind. Brad Johnson went to Tampa and had success as did Stan Humphries in San Diego. Gibbs admitted it was a mistake to let Humphries go.

[#98QBKiller]

Just 8 more games until we get our franchise quarterback, guys.

Exactly. I'm not even mad when we lose anymore. I just want to see our young guys play well and see how the defense does having to carry the load for the entire game...BTW, should we hope that Crompton gets a start so we've officially played three different QBs on the season? :silly:

[daveakl]

That year off Shanny had between here & Denver, he spent time during training camps with & studing a few teams. Teams like the Pats & the Steelers. Both ran the 3-4. Both are held up as model franchises.

He also went to Florida and studied Urban Meyer's spread offense. NE is a passing team. Pittsburgh is a passing team (and with Brown, Sanders, and Wallace out there they have crazy speed at WR). Think there is a reason he kept so many WR's this year and is still bringing in more as we go?

I have a sneaky suspicion as to which QB he really wants.

[GWinSkins83]

He also went to Florida and studied Urban Meyer's spread offense. NE is a passing team. Pittsburgh is a passing team (and with Brown, Sanders, and Wallace out there they have crazy speed at WR). Think there is a reason he kept so many WR's this year and is still bringing in more as we go?

I have a sneaky suspicion as to which QB he really wants.

Who Who:drooley::drooley:

[SirClintonPortis]

You know I was recently thinking how similar we are to this year's Patriots.

We both have proven, veteran coaches with multiple Super Bowl rings. We both run a 3-4 defense, only ours is a little better. We both have a bunch of possession wide receivers with no real downfield game breakers. The receiving strength from both teams is at tight end. They have the better offensive line. Neither team has a strong running game. We are a little better on special teams.

What separates the 2011 Redskins from the 2011 Patriots is mostly one position. They have one of the best quarterbacks in the game, we easily have the worst.

Honestly, as horrible as we look right now, we are one player away from being a solid playoff team. It just so happens that that player is the most important one.

The Patriots are not running a 3-4 defense. They're running a 4-3. Their defense is terrible. Our defense is holding its own, except in the running game.
The Patriots have Welker(who is much more than a mere possession guy) and two TEs that cause huge mismatches. We have Moss and Davis and that's about it. Cooley is a pure possession receiver who doesn't scare anyone deep When the Patriots want to run, they can. Green-Ellis(power back), Ridley, and Woodhead are all running at 4.0 YPC or better.
Their QB is better, but the rest of their offense easily has more TD producers than ours, even with Tom Brady.

[GibbsFactor]

He also went to Florida and studied Urban Meyer's spread offense. NE is a passing team. Pittsburgh is a passing team (and with Brown, Sanders, and Wallace out there they have crazy speed at WR). Think there is a reason he kept so many WR's this year and is still bringing in more as we go?

I have a sneaky suspicion as to which QB he really wants.

NEs offense is all about precise execution where the Steelers are all about playmaking ability.

Brady won't throw to a receiver that doesn't run a good clean route.

The Steelers entire passing game is based around the receivers running 9 routes and then breaking off when Big Ben starts to scramble. It's essentially the exact opposite of what NE/Indy does. I find GB mixing in a little of both which is where I'd love this team to be.



As for the OP, so you are saying that teams that struggle at QB select one in the next year's draft? Groundbreaking.

[daveakl]

I find GB mixing in a little of both which is where I'd love this team to be.


Funny you would say that. I never said that he studied three of the same offenses, just that those were the three that he studied. ;)

[Tom [Giants fan]]

If I am a scout for the Giants, I am looking all over the country at high school quarterbacks because that is probably where the next franchise QB of the Giants is at. I think it is vital that you have a franchise QB. The Giants went through names like, Tommy Maddox, Danny Kannell, Dave Brown, and others after Phil Simms and didn't really have a stable QB for quite some time until Mr. ELIte. :D

[GibbsFactor]

Funny you would say that. I never said that he studied three of the same offenses, just that those were the three that he studied. ;)

GB and Pitt can run backyard football when they have QBs that are so hard to bring down. The Panthers need to adapt that style.

[Blue Collar Skins]

As for the OP, so you are saying that teams that struggle at QB select one in the next year's draft? Groundbreaking. A weisenheimer posting a smart alec comment...shocking! :silly:

[GibbsFactor]

;8678838']If I am a scout for the Giants, I am looking all over the country at high school quarterbacks because that is probably where the next franchise QB of the Giants is at. I think it is vital that you have a franchise QB. The Giants went through names like, Tommy Maddox, Danny Kannell, Dave Brown, and others after Phil Simms and didn't really have a stable QB for quite some time until Mr. ELIte. :D

The real benefit of having a Franchise QB is that you no longer need to worry about that position. You can stock up and miss on other positions and the FQB masks the other areas of weakness.

The Colts are the antithesis of that. They haven't needed to have a lot of resources spent on offense since Manning has been there. They've obviously missed quite a bit in the draft over the last 10 years.

[Botched]

The Patriots are not running a 3-4 defense. They're running a 4-3. Their defense is terrible. Our defense is holding its own, except in the running game.
The Patriots have Welker(who is much more than a mere possession guy) and two TEs that cause huge mismatches. We have Moss and Davis and that's about it. Cooley is a pure possession receiver who doesn't scare anyone deep When the Patriots want to run, they can. Green-Ellis(power back), Ridley, and Woodhead are all running at 4.0 YPC or better.
Their QB is better, but the rest of their offense easily has more TD producers than ours, even with Tom Brady.

You're right about their D, I don't know why I always think of them as a 3-4 defense. I'll wake up tomorrow morning calling them a 3-4.

Wes Welker is not even as good as Santana Moss. He would be a so-so player on any other NFL team, assuming he wasn't cut for dropping too many passes. The guy has Tom Brady to thank for his career.

The Patriots have less rushing talent than we do. I could average 4.5ypc in that offense. The only reason they can run it at all is because nobody cares if they do. Defenses only care about Tommy Boy.

Put any back, tight end, or receiver from the Patriots offense on this team with John Beck under center, and nobody would even know they exist. They really are not more talented than we are at those positions, they just have an actual NFL quarterback, while we have a guy who couldn't start for most CFL teams.

[sportjunkie07]

i pretty much agree with the OP, seems kinda obvious.

we might differ in that i think we are one GOOD qb away from being a contender.

i think our defense is underrated by most and is near elite. our special teams are above average.

offense is by far our weakest unit, but a good qb will do a lot to change that. i think our oline is capable, and though we lack explosive weapons, we do have some good pieces, all of which are underutilized.

[JerseyGator]

I've watched Sanchez play a lot. He is highly overrated and has a ton of support around him. Ryan isn't much better and doesn't seem able to win the big game so far. When was the last time the Skins had studs on the interior of their line? Pre-Spurrier?

[Prototype]

Don't look now, but this could finally be the Draft we've been waiting for 20 years.

[prufRock]

The fact that other teams have had bad quarterback situations for a long time and then wound up with good situations really doesn't prove anything with regard to our current Redskins. The examples you cite:
Atlanta
Baltimore
Detroit
Carolina
also happened to change coaches at the exact time that they acquired their new quarterback, so I'd be more encouraged if you'd come up with some examples of coaches who came into rebuilding situations and had some sort of master plan that involved rolling out bad-to-mediocre quarterbacks for two years and then drafting the QB of the future in year three. I just don't think that happens.
I think the Shanahans overestimated McNabb, Grossman, and Beck and because of that, did not feel the need to draft a top-flight prospect whether at their predefined draft position, or by maneuvering for a higher pick. None of what Shanahan is doing now means anything until he finds a quarterback

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I have a sneaky suspicion as to which QB he really wants.

Care to share? Your amongst friends. It's only right and proper. :pfft:

Hail.

[glongest]

The sad part is we don't have to "mail it in" to get a good draft pick because this team does not have to try and suck, they suck without even trying. Unless a combination of this team starts playing better and getting healthy happens, it is hard to find another win on our schedule.

[Bang]

What frustrates people around here is that no matter what formula we use, we can't seem to find our guy. Shuler, Frerotte, Ramsey, Campbell (draft). George, Hostetler, Banks, B. Johnson (free agents) or McNabb, Brunell (trades), we seem to not find anything. But I think the best way for "us" right now is to find one in this years draft. I just don't see a Matt Cassell/Schaub trade on the horizon or a "have to have" free agent (Matt Flynn? Barf!!) out there. First round pick will be a QB for the Washington Redskins in 2012.

Totally agree.
I'd much rather draft a guy and give him to Mike Shanahan to mold then go for a castoff.
Schaub and Cassell, even Fitzpatrick had shown at least a little something.

~Bang

[wildbill1952]

With our need at QB and the lack of need at QB of the other bottom 8 NFL teams, I fully expect to get one of the top 2 or 3 QB's in this year's draft (barring some other teams giving two first round picks for a top 3 choice). But if the team doesn't immediately follow up with a solid, field stretching WR to complement Moss, and a few really good offensive linemen, then this is just drafting Ramsey or Campbell all over again. The new QB will develop happy feet and destroy his mechanics while waiting for bad route runners with no running game and no protection.

Here's hoping Shanny and Allen look beyond the first round for talent to help the QB.