plummer takes shot at shanny, kinda.

[SBboundbaby]

so i was watching an in state rivalry. az state vrs. u of a last night. and plummer was in attendance. they happened to get an interview with him. and asked him if he misses the nfl. he said of coarse. especially when people like tebow? and newton are running the option. and that coaches who want to win are letting their players do what they are good at. instead of trying to make them do something that they are not accustomed to, or to play within a system like he was treated in denver but would not directly mention any names.

my thing is this. is shanny and sons willing to swallow their ego and shape the offense to the players. or are we caught in a system that no matter what has to work and will only come to an end when shanny and son leaves?

discussion


sbb

[Son of Gadsden]

Well seeing as his system has won him 2 superbowls, id say it can't be all that bad.

[chipwhich]

they dont have players to shape to, so it's a silly discussion.

[DeadExField]

I think you're stretching it, kinda.

I think this has been discussed with the Mcnabb ordeal and AH, I think they will push the scheme as far as they can or they will deal the players out

[emor09]

shannahan made plummer

before denver, plummer never had QB rating over 80. In denver 3/4 seasons he was over 80, with 2 in the 90s

[Taylor 36]

I think you're stretching it, kinda.

I think this has been discussed with the Mcnabb ordeal and AH, I think they will push the scheme as far as they can or they will deal the players out
No stretching about it. The OP is trying to make something out of nothing. There is no discussion here to be had past the point that Plummer should be grateful to Shanny for even having a career where people would remember him after he left. Let's not forget how Mr. Crybaby quit the NFL because Shanny traded him. If anything , and honestly, there was NOTHING there, this would be nothing more than a case of sour grapes.

[ashlynskins]

Plummer is a wack job imho...no good reason as to why he quit the NFL after being dealt to Tampa (where he more then likely would have been the #1) so really anything this clown has to say doesn't mean a thing to me.....and as stated Plummer should be thankful to Shanahan..Plummer was a ok QB in Arizona but in Denver at least became a decent to good QB....

[Thirtyfive2seven]

We have been pining for an offensive system for years here. I think we all agree that a steady system that works over time is best. Look at Philly, Indy, Giants, Saints, Packers... They have had consistency over time and keep getting the best players to fit. I would love to see that occur here.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

this whole tebow thing is so ****ing stupid. so john fox is now some magical coach cause hes getting the best out of his QB that will ultimately fail because he tailored his offense to a system that is never going to work? thats a genius idea. lets take two systems (kyles and mikes) that have both worked very well, and throw them out the window, and just do what fits rex grossman and john beck. winner idea people. after all, forget the system success stories, lets just tailor the offense to two worthless losers that have no future with this team.

and just for the record, id like to know exactly what offenses john beck and rex grossman would thrive in. after all, our coaching staff clearly isnt adapting to the "strengths" (LOL) we have on offense, and theyre forcing rex and beck to do things they arent comfortable with.

shanahan and kyle are not the problem, or any sort of problem. the problem is our awful situation at QB that is not fixable due to sheer suckitude. and tebow isnt even doing well, he plays godawful QB for 57 minutes then leads one ugly drive that wins games (mostly against teams that are massive underachievers). nevermind the broncos defense is holding teams to like 10 points. this is just like when vince young was winning with the titans in 06, when in reality it was solid defense that was winning and a little luck sprinkled in. the broncos are setting their offense back by doing this stupid crap and its going to hurt them in the long run when they get rid of the option.

[Bang]

The OP question is valid.. but coming from Plummer, it is sort of ridiculous.
Jake the Fake was nothing. To give any younger fans a player to compare to, he was Rex Grossman. He had potential mixed with an uncanny ability to make the wrong decision and make the bad throw.

Shanahan's system took him to an AFC championship,, completely overachieving for such an average Joe QB.
(System can also be defined as "When you feel any indecision at all, throw it to Shannon sharpe. He will be following you around and waiting for the dump.)

Plummer should thank Shanahan for giving him his biggest moment of glory.

~Bang

[War Paint]

I do think good coaches customize their system for their QB strengths. I understand having a proven system that works, but I do think the coach should do tweaks and such to maximize a QB's strengths and minimize their weaknesses. I hope Shanahan isn't so stubborn that he expects every single QB with different skill sets to do everything exactly what the system demands. I understand not wanting to completely change a system that is proven to work, but a good system should have some flexibility for different QB skill sets.

[stat2883]

eh....6 of one, half dozen of the other in my opinion. Either change your system to fit your players, or change your players to fit your system. Both sides can be argued and it won't make a bit of difference. I don't think either way is wrong - we chose option B, so let's ride it out and see where it goes.

[Pelado]

To give any younger fans a player to compare to, he was Rex Grossman. He had potential mixed with an uncanny ability to make the wrong decision and make the bad throw.


Imperfect comparison. Jake could run.

[ADF]

There is definitely beef between Shanahan and Plummer. So there is no surprise that Plummer took a shot at him. Mike is one of the most demanding coaches in the NFL. I don't even think he and Elway have had the best relationship. So, whomever we draft next year will have to have thick skin to deal with Mike Shanahan and the Redskins faithful.

[SBboundbaby]

my concern if for next year. if we get a decent draft pick, and get a QB. will he fit in our system? or will he have to learn to play within a set of plays?


sbb

[Clark84]

Sour grapes, he lost his job to the younger, much more-talented Cutler.

[robotfire]

Jay Cutler was awesome in Shanahan's system, and I believe he knows how to bring out the best in a quarterback.

Also, look at Beck and Grossman. They look like completely different types of suck. Shanahan allows them to each suck in their own way.

[C26 Run]

No they are not willing to shape their offense. Mike and Kyle will continue on their ego trip and yet again we, as fans, will suffer through another losing era of our team.

:helmet:

[Enter Apotheosis]

Plummer is like a petulant little child when it comes to his years in Denver. Shanahan put Plummer in a position to succeed and effectively brought his game to a level it had never reached in Arizona. Plummer is just bitter that he got kicked out on his ass because Shanahan didn't like his work ethic (e.g., Plummer didn't buy in to the importance of OTAs, which is not what you want to see out of your team leader) and has said that he thought that Plummer had maxed out (i.e., losing the AFC championship game was the best he could ever do). As a result, Denver drafted Cutler and Plummer proceeded to phone it in like the pithy human being he is until he was discarded for good.

[Mr. Sinister]

Plummer is like a petulant little child when it comes to his years in Denver. Shanahan put Plummer in a position to succeed and effectively brought his game to a level it had never reached in Arizona. Plummer is just bitter that he got kicked out on his ass because Shanahan didn't like his work ethic (e.g., Plummer didn't buy in to the importance of OTAs, which is not what you want to see out of your team leader) and has said that he thought that Plummer had maxed out (i.e., losing the AFC championship game was the best he could ever do). As a result, Denver drafted Cutler and Plummer proceeded to phone it in like the pithy human being he is until he was discarded for good.

That pretty much sums up how I feel.

[pjfootballer]

Plummer is a "QUITTER" Eff Him!!

[#BgMase76#]

my concern if for next year. if we get a decent draft pick, and get a QB. will he fit in our system? or will he have to learn to play within a set of plays?


sbb it would look really bad on the Shanny's and front office if they drafted a QB that didn't fit our system. They would be run out of town by Snyder faster that Schottenheimer was.

[PorkSkins]

Plummer was traded by Shanny to our now GM, Mr. Allen. He retired and never played in TB. There are two sides to the story and based on the enormous ego I have seen for two years, there is a little bit of do as I say whether it works or not. Yes, Napoleon has two rings but he inherited them because he was given the keys to a winning team. When he had to build a winning team, he hasn't won.

[LoudMouth12thMan]

What player do we have on offense to "BUILD" anything around? Let's build an offense around Grossman's strengths (throwing picks) by running on every down. Although he did play well today....for the most part.

Shanahan should punt on first down since Sav Rocca is our weapon. Let's build an offense around him.

[rick7423]

I am kinda confused about the whole 'playing in a system I know' concept. As an employee, and a highly paid one, it is the employees job to adapt to the employer, not the other way around. I am not saying that there is not a give and take relationship, but the employee needs to adapt to the employers demands. If not, then move on.

It is players like this that drive me nuts. These are highly paid athletes who should be adaptable, to a large extent, to their environment. It is unreasonable for a company to change its operational strategies because one employee finds it distasteful (aka the Albert Haynesworth debacle).

[2cents]

This is a tired point. Here is the answer so we can put this to rest. We will shape the system when they have more players who fit the system. We aren't there yet. You can't/shouldn't fit the system for players who won't be here next year. Also you can't change the system while you are installing it. Soon, everyone will know it better and then with players who fit it, then you tweak it to fit their individual strengths......

[ddub52]

Shape the offense to the players? What players? They dont have much to work with, whether thats their fault or not

[skinsrbeast]

this didnt seem like a shot to me

[bigjumbo1971]

What player do we have on offense to "BUILD" anything around? Let's build an offense around Grossman's strengths (throwing picks) by running on every down. Although he did play well today....for the most part.

Shanahan should punt on first down since Sav Rocca is our weapon. Let's build an offense around him.

This is what gets me when I listen to sports talk radio...people call in all the time about them not coaching to the players strengths like we have Tebow back there

[SBboundbaby]

well if we keep on stinking up the joint. we will have a top five draft pick for sure. with that i expect a QB to be taken. will that QB be the best player available, or the guy that fits what shanny and son want to do?

i know the whole plummer thing is sour grapes. but it does give us some insight on what could happen when ego's come before winning. and didnt he bench plummer for cutler, but then went back to him late in the season? and i am pretty sure cutler did not do much better the next few years. and he was hand picked by shanny.

all that being said. i just hope whatever we do, we start to turn this thing around. i see other teams doing it in one year. why cant we? next year will be year 3 under shanny and son. that to me is make or break. and alot of that depends on how we finish this year.


sbb

[2cents]

No, really, next year is number two in the rebuilding. The first year was an evaluation to see who we were going to rebuild around. And guess what you found....no one. That's why you saw so many guys brought in. This team had no talent what so ever. Read all the other threads that state how many guys were drafted/signed and cut from the Vinny era that are no longer in football....basically all of them. Yes a lot of team makes some changes and "turn around" in one year....like Miami and the Chiefs. But guess what? They still aren't that good and rode an easy schedule to build up wins but really were not fundimentally better. Slow and steady wins the race. You can't blame Shanny for all that went on before him which people are trying to do when they complain about us being bad so long. He's cleaning up the mess in a house that the hoarders left behind and people are complaining that too much garbage is sitting on the lawn waiting for the dump truck to come back after it's first run to the dump.

[GWinSkins83]

well if we keep on stinking up the joint. we will have a top five draft pick for sure. with that i expect a QB to be taken. will that QB be the best player available, or the guy that fits what shanny and son want to do?

i know the whole plummer thing is sour grapes. but it does give us some insight on what could happen when ego's come before winning. and didnt he bench plummer for cutler, but then went back to him late in the season? and i am pretty sure cutler did not do much better the next few years. and he was hand picked by shanny.

all that being said. i just hope whatever we do, we start to turn this thing around. i see other teams doing it in one year. why cant we? next year will be year 3 under shanny and son. that to me is make or break. and alot of that depends on how we finish this year.


sbb

Umm Cutler had a 4500 yard season and I think he had 22 td to like 10 ints. That was like his second or third season. Cutler was showing to be a great pick by Mike. And as you can see Cutler now Mike Shanahan knows how to pick them. Cause Cutler is playing in a different offense and he still playing some great ball. I have complete faith in Shanahan on finding a young QB. I think he did great this past offseason suring up the defense. Now he will get his QB and oline. I expect us to be a playoff team in 2013 for sure.

[aussieskin]

as chief wigham would say "Nothing to see here move on please" just another ex player taking a cheap shot at a head coach, by the way, i believe that if the skins are patient and just wait for the Shanahans to get the players they want, we will be contenders again but patience is the watch word

[Forever21]

Plummer is like a petulant little child when it comes to his years in Denver. Shanahan put Plummer in a position to succeed and effectively brought his game to a level it had never reached in Arizona. Plummer is just bitter that he got kicked out on his ass because Shanahan didn't like his work ethic (e.g., Plummer didn't buy in to the importance of OTAs, which is not what you want to see out of your team leader) and has said that he thought that Plummer had maxed out (i.e., losing the AFC championship game was the best he could ever do). As a result, Denver drafted Cutler and Plummer proceeded to phone it in like the pithy human being he is until he was discarded for good.

Well said. If Elway has something to say about Shanahan I'll listen. Plummer's words should not have even made it to ES.

[pjfootballer]

Plummer was traded by Shanny to our now GM, Mr. Allen. He retired and never played in TB. There are two sides to the story and based on the enormous ego I have seen for two years, there is a little bit of do as I say whether it works or not. Yes, Napoleon has two rings but he inherited them because he was given the keys to a winning team. When he had to build a winning team, he hasn't won.

Denver's record the 4 years prior to Shanahan:

8-8
9-7
7-9
8-8.

While they didn't suck, they were hardly a great team. Now, finding Terrell Davis certainly helped the fortunes of not only Shanahan, but the Broncos also. Without Davis, neither Mike nor John Elway win a SB. So I'm not sure you can say he was handed the keys to a winning team much like George Siefert with the 49ers or the bufoon, Barry Switzer in Dallass. Shanahan played a role in gettint the Broncos to the next level.

[Pelado]

i know the whole plummer thing is sour grapes. but it does give us some insight on what could happen when ego's come before winning. and didnt he bench plummer for cutler, but then went back to him late in the season? and i am pretty sure cutler did not do much better the next few years. and he was hand picked by shanny.


Not really. The only stats Plummer had after getting replaced by Cutler in week 13 were in the final game of the year against San Fran, in which he attempted 2 passes (0 completions, 1 interception). ESPN's write-up of the game includes the following:


The Broncos sent the game into overtime when Cutler, who was knocked woozy and sidelined by a hard hit in the first half, drove his team 80 yards in 10 plays and threw a fastball to fellow rookie Tony Scheffler for a 9-yard TD with 90 seconds left in regulation.
"I was a little dinged up. My head was swimming a little bit," Cutler said. "But I was fine in the second half."

http://espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=261231007

Cutler was probably concussed (knocked woozy, "my head was swimming") and would not have been allowed back into the game under the rules now.

[haider61]

Just saw this on deadspin, thought I should share:

You were 39-15 in Denver and played extremely well given the pressure of having to play that position in Denver. Mike Shanahan really gave you the shaft. I admire that you had the balls to put him on blast the last few years and look now in Washington the guy is completely exposed:

"Yeah and I don't like to see that. I mean I don't want to see anybody struggle. I'm not sitting here gloating or feeling better about his lack of success down there. As time goes you learn more things. I'm here hanging out with my buddies from college. Jason Verdugo from St.Paul, Minnesota, he's a baseball coach for Hampton University. He said ‘God when we were 21 [years old] we thought we knew everything and thought we were old and we thought god we know what we're doing. Now you look back and I'm 36 and I'm looking back on that and I didn't know anything back then and look what I know now. In retrospect and hindsight you see things. Things play out and you learn if you keep your eyes and ears open. Hey I was lucky to get the opportunity to play for [Mike] Shanahan. He helped turn my career around and gave me a chance to show that I was a winner regardless of how things went down. His style is just what it is. I think we are seeing he isn't the special coach we thought he was. He's a great coach, but he's not like some of those guys that will take a player…Coach [John] Fox man look at what he is doing. You think he is going to force Tebow to throw 30 times a game? No. They are going to try to win with what he can do and it is kind of fun to see since they are bucking the system in the NFL. They are running the option. Are you kidding me?"

For more, here is the link:


http://deadspin.com/5861519/jake-plummer-to-tim-tebow-we-get-it-dude-you-love-jesus (http://deadspin.com/5861519/jake-plummer-to-tim-tebow-we-get-it-dude-you-love-jesus)

[Hooper]

As the link above shows, Plummer also praised Shanny for turning his career around and showing him he could be a winner.

Not that anyone is highlighting that.

[steve09ru]

If you let the players roam and do their own thing then it's completely disorganized and not functional - see 2011 Eagles.

Take a team that has a strong system in place with players that have grown accustomed to the system and style then you come up with a functional and organized team - see 2011 Packers

[cphil006]

If you let the players roam and do their own thing then it's completely disorganized and not functional - see 2011 Eagles.

Take a team that has a strong system in place with players that have grown accustomed to the system and style then you come up with a functional and organized team - see 2011 Packers

THIS.

This is the second year of this offense... and defense for that matter. The offense does not have the talent. The plays look good. We lack Matt Shaub, Arian Foster, and Andre Johnson.