Homer: Are the Redskins better with Mike Shanahan?

[themurf]

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6119/6344747867_c9fcd340f9.jpg

(photo by Brian Murphy)

Unfortunately for everyone involved, Hall of Famer Joe Gibbs can’t be the coach of the Washington Redskins forever.

When he walked away from football back in 1992, the three-time Super Bowl winning coach inadvertently started a two-decade long downward spiral for the burgundy and gold.

A franchise that had made the playoffs eight of the last 11 seasons qualified for the postseason just three out of the next 18* years after Grandpa Gibbs headed off into the sunset.

*While Washington still has six games left in the 2011 season, it’s safe to say the Redskins are going to miss the playoffs for the 16th time in 19 seasons. That sentence alone makes me wonder why anyone under the age of 21 willingly roots for this team.

Amazingly, two of those three post-Gibbs playoff trips were manufactured by … well … Gibbs. Basically, every other season since ’92 has been completely forgettable as the Redskins have slipped further and further into mediocrity.

When Gibbs 2.0 decided to once again embrace retirement, the keys to the franchise were turned over to an unknown (and, as it turns out, under qualified) gentleman named Jim Zorn.

Zorn was quirky. Zorn was amusing. But most of all, Zorn was a bad head coach.

In his two seasons in Washington, the former Seattle Seahawks quarterback took a playoff-caliber roster and essentially ran it into the ground – winning just 12 of 32 games with an overpaid and under-performing roster.

Mercifully, Zorn was let go after the 2009 season and owner Daniel Snyder brought in Mike Shanahan – a head coach with a proven track record and two Super Bowl victories of his own.

Unlike his predecessor, Shanahan did not inherit a playoff-ready roster. He took over the oldest team in football and, for better or for worse, opted to shy away from any talk of rebuilding.

Instead, Shanahan pulled the trigger on a deal that brought in Philadelphia Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb and crossed his fingers that the aging veteran could adequately play the role of John Elway.

Two months into the 2010 season, Shanahan had seen enough to know the McNabb experiment wasn’t going to work. The 12-year pro was benched in favor of Rex Grossman, and a season that started with plenty of hope and promise ended with just six wins and more new questions than answers.

Since the McNabb incident in Detroit, the Redskins have gone just 5-13.

The quarterback position, led by Grossman and John Beck, has been inconsistent at best, and dreadful, at worst. Statistically, the rushing attack – the one area of football Shanahan has always been able to excel at – has somehow been worse.

The offense has no identity and lacks anything resembling a true playmaker. There isn’t a player on the offensive side of the ball that opposing teams lose sleep over while game-planning. There isn’t a player who can put the rest of the team on his back and will his squad to victory.

Basically, the Redskins only hope of winning on Sundays involves dinking and dunking an opponent to death. That might work in water boarding, but it’s not a way to win football games.

When Grossman threw a 16-yard touchdown pass to receiver Jabar Gaffney with 14 seconds left in the first half against Dallas this past Sunday, it gave Washington their first lead in a game since Oct. 2.

Any time you go five entire games without holding a lead for a single second, you’re doing it wrong. That’s not something ‘Skins fans ever expected to hear when Shanahan first came to town – which is why it’s fair to ask if this franchise is actually headed in the right direction.

A Shanahan-led team had never been shutout. It’s has now. No Shanahan-coached team had ever lost six games in a row. Well, he can cross that off the to-do list.

Week after week, the Redskins find new and creative ways to re-write the Shanahan record books – just not in the way he hoped when he took his talents to our nation’s capital.

At this point, the question becomes – how many of these current players can the Redskins build around?

When Shanahan used the fourth-overall pick on left tackle Trent Williams, he obviously envisioned the Oklahoma standout locking down the blind side for the foreseeable future.

While Williams has had his moments during his season and a half in D.C., he’s also a player who is seemingly always saddled with some sort of injury or ailment. Oh, and he’s also a guy who gets called for a holding penalty once a game and is quickly earning a reputation as a hot head who tries to get into a shoving match just as often.

Middle linebacker Perry Riley appears to be the only other noteworthy player the Redskins drafted in 2010 and he’s only been a starter for 10 minutes, so it’s far too early to know if he’s worth keeping around long term.

Outside linebacker Ryan Kerrigan has been the defense’s best player this season, and looks to be a perfect complement to linebacker Brian Orakpo. Defensive lineman Jarvis Jenkins was a standout during training camp, but his season ended before it ever started.

After being inactive for the first month or so of the season, rookie receiver Leonard Hankerson had a breakout game against Miami … and then promptly injured his hip and was lost for the year.*

*How much blame should be assigned to Shanahan for Hankerson’s injury? The guy was stuck riding the bench for the first two months of the season and the basically became a focal point overnight. Was it unrealistic to think his body could go from zero to 60 overnight? Did his coach set the rookie wideout up for failure by throwing him into the fire too fast?

Click here (http://www.homermcfanboy.com/2011/11/22/are-the-redskins-better-with-mike-shanahan/) for the full article.

[Hooper]

Blaming Hank's injury on Shanny?

Now I've heard everything.

Folks, we have a defense that is on the young side and talented.

We appeared to have hit on lots of guys in the draft.

We have 18 picks in the next two drafts. That's five years of picks for Cerrato.

Whoever is coaching this team in two years -- Mike Shanahan or someone else -- will greatly benefit from what Mike Shanahan has done.

Without question we need to give him another year. He has made some mistakes for sure -- big ones -- but I think he's got us pointed in the right direction.

Fans, the media, they all scream "rebuild." Then want a coach gone in two years. It's nuts.

[bird_1972]

We have a defense that is on the young side and talented.

We appeared to have hit on lots of guys in the draft.

We have 18 picks in the next two drafts.

Whoever is coaching this team in two years -- Mike Shanahan or someone else -- will greatly benefit from what Mike Shanahan has done.

He finally brings legitimacy to this organization (on all dimensions, whereas Gibbs did so only from a coaching standpoint).

It appears as though he is less successful based on our performance over the last 2 seasons because he has chosen to properly invest the time and effort to grow the team the right way - through youth and the draft.

I firmly believe the team is a lot better with Shannahan and I hope he is given the chance to build this team slowly, through the draft over the next several years. Dan S and the fans owe it to him and the team.

[skinsdude]

Not much to argue with in that article. Pretty spot on. Not sure if Landry will be around in three years but it's certainly possible.

[themurf]

Not much to argue with in that article. Pretty spot on. Not sure if Landry will be around in three years but it's certainly possible.

Thanks, dude. I don't want people to think I'm bashing Mike Shanahan or calling for his removal. Anyone who reads the columne will hopefully see that. I'm just trying to take a step back and see how much closer this team is to being good again now compared to the day he took over. We all appreciate the fact that the drama queens and distractions are gone, but how many of these players should truly be considered long-term solutions the Redskins can build a franchise around? That's my question for the day.

[Skinsinparadise]

Shanny's mistake IMO was not rebuilding in year #1. IMO we are basically in year #1 of a rebuild, young team, lots of picks playing -- if we are going to expect instant results its unfair. they are playing poorly thus far this year, but many talk about tampa building themselves into a contender quicker than most, well in year #1 they were 3-13. it's not unusual for it to be the darkest before the dawn when you are doing a rebuild -- and the enemy IMO is to panic and not to allow the team to take a step back now to take multiple steps forward later.

it would be one thing if this would be Vinny -- we'd be looking at the future with salary cap constraints and few picks. with this regime, we are under the cap, and have 9 picks slated for each of the next two drafts. Night and day. Lets let the movie play out.

[kwitt]

Put me firmly in the camp of this team being headed in the right direction and being light years ahead of where it was two years ago.

[MattFancy]

I think even though I record doesn't show it, this team is better with Shanahan.

For one, our defense is fairly young and has some nice pieces to build around. It looks like we may have hit on 4 defensive players from the draft (Kerrigan, Jenkins, Gomes, Neild). We still have solid vets like Fletcher, Cofield, and Bowen. I think our secondary needs some work, but I think overall we have a solid defense.

Sure our offense isn't lighting it up, but again, there are some young guys there to possibly build around: Williams, Helu, Hankerson, Davis, and Paul. So there is some silver lining there.

I think Shanahan's tenure will come down to the 2012 draft. If we hit on a franchise QB, it will be viewed as successful.

[NLC1054]

You say you want a revolution, well you know we all want to change the world...

Yes. The team is better with Mike Shanahan. Tired of hearing what the record was with Spurrier, tired of hearing what the record was with Zorn. We all hated those coaches, did we not? Yes, they won more games, but they still finished their coaching career with losing records and were horrible choices to coach this team.

This is the sucky part of rebuilding, and even though there are still those who will grumble to themselves "well Mike hasn't SAID we're rebuilding...", we're rebuilding. Every move we've made this offseason indicates it. No big name free agents, no ill advised trades, cap situation actually GOOD after years of disarray.

Average age of every player Mike's added this season was 26.5. The Redskins are now paying for the mistakes of the two prior administrations, and yes, that includes Joe Gibbs, who got a team to the playoffs, but left the team an aging mess with the inmates running the asylum.

You don't fix over a decade worth the personnel mistakes, missed drafted opportunities and organizational cluster****ery (that's a ten dollar word) in two seasons.

They say the greatest trick the devil ever played on the world was convincing it he didn't exist.

The greatest trick Vinny Cerrato and Dan Snyder played on us for so many years was being just mediocre enough that we always thought we were just a coach away, or a player away, or a year away from being decent, when we really, REALLY weren't.

[Goskinz0721]

It's way too early to ask this question. There's been numerous threads on the horrible shape of the roster when Shanny came on board.

Few in DC wanted JC at QB, so the Easter Massacre trade was made for McScab. Yeah, panic move by the team.

Of the guys on the current roster, the question remains how many should really be here? Shanny is weeding out the wheat from the chaff. But there were so many holes to fill that almost anybody was an upgrade from what was there.

[Destino]

When the Redskins hired Shanahan I had more confidence his ability to coach than I did to assemble a roster. That hasn't changed but I'm sincerely hoping it will. I think it's really going to come down to a QB with Shanahan. He shot himself in the foot with Grossman and Beck and I don't think he realized it would be this bad.

Having said that it's not time to switch coaches. Shanahan has shown promise and frankly there is no plan B. Coaches aren't beating down Dan Snyder's door at the moment and restarting in the middle of a rebuild is absurd. The team chose this route and now they have to give it time to succeed or fail.

[RichmondRedskin88]

As far as fans under 21 I'd make than even older to like 24-25 because I know ones like me can't even remember our last SB. Only real bright period I ever remember was the year we almost got to the NFC championship but we botched the FG try in the Divisionals.

[skinsdude]

I think Shanahan's tenure will come down to the 2012 draft. If we hit on a franchise QB, it will be viewed as successful.

I think that this is it pretty much it in a nutshell. He will more than likely have a top five pick; he better use it wisely.

[Goskinz0721]

The greatest trick Vinny Cerrato and Dan Snyder played on us for so many years was being just mediocre enough that we always thought we were just a coach away, or a player away, or a year away from being decent, when we really, REALLY weren't.

This, to me, was the greatest misjustice these 2 did to the fan base during cerrato's tenure. The message from them made for early season exuberance only to turn to midseason hatred. Those last 2 seasons prior to Shanny was a close to a complete fan revolt as I've seen in my 50 years of following the Skins.

[#98QBKiller]

Blaming Hank's injury on Shanny?

Now I've heard everything.

Folks, we have a defense that is on the young side and talented.

We appeared to have hit on lots of guys in the draft.

We have 18 picks in the next two drafts. That's five years of picks for Cerrato.

Whoever is coaching this team in two years -- Mike Shanahan or someone else -- will greatly benefit from what Mike Shanahan has done.

Without question we need to give him another year. He has made some mistakes for sure -- big ones -- but I think he's got us pointed in the right direction.

Fans, the media, they all scream "rebuild." Then want a coach gone in two years. It's nuts.

I agree with your points and I think we should stay the course with Shanahan at least through the 2012 season. If the team is still struggling and finishes 6-10 or under for a third consecutive year (assuming we're finishing poorly this year) I think it would be hard to argue for keeping Shanhan around. But I do think Shanahan/Allen have done a good job of throwing out the trash here and bringing promising youth in. I just hope he can do something with it.

[kubstix]

Looks to be going in the right direction which is good....but sometimes Mike is ridiculous with things. For example "Coach Mike Shanahan admitted that he isn't ready to commit to Roy Helu as a full-time back yet." How is this even a discussion by coaches? Mike is the biggest egotistical idiot I've ever seen with some things.

[themurf]

Put me firmly in the camp of this team being headed in the right direction and being light years ahead of where it was two years ago.

I tend to agree, but to play devil's advocate a bit - how are the Redskins light years ahead of where they were? The stats and the standings remain pitiful and I'm not sure there are 10 players on the roster who are definitely building blocks. Yes, the roster is younger. But is it actually better? Yes, the salary cap situation has improved, but that has as much to do with the uncapped year as anything this regime has done.

In the last month alone, Shanahan has been shut out for the first time in his head coaching career and is in the midst of his longest losing streak of his NFL career. I'm someone who is on board with him being here for at least five years, but it'd be nice to see some progress between now and then.

Other than Kerrigan, there aren't even any other rookies to enjoy watching regularly. Jenkins and Hankerson are done for the year and the rest of the newbies don't get enough regular playing time to properly evaluate.

---------- Post added November-22nd-2011 at 01:54 PM ----------


Fans, the media, they all scream "rebuild." Then want a coach gone in two years. It's nuts.

Please point to anywhere in this column where I suggest the coach should be removed. And while we're at it, did I actually blame Shanahan for Hankerson's injury or simply ask a question about pushing a rookie too hard too fast?

[SkinsHokieFan]

This is looking quite a bit like Bill Parcells in Dallas, with exception to overachieving in year 1 with Quincy Carter at QB (had Shanny kept JC and went 10-6, that would have been the equivalent)

Parcells took a major step back in year 2 (2004) as he decided to go the rebuild route over the "drive forward with the trash we have route"

The Cowboys went from 10-6 (a team that started 7-3) to 6-10

They were able to in the next draft of 2005 add key pieces in DeMarcus Ware, Marcus Spears and Marion Barber. They made the right moves, even though it only paid off in a 9-7 season led by Drew Bledsoe, and another missed playoff berth.

It wasn't until 2006 and Tony Romo, Parcells 4th year, that things finally appeared to start turning a corner, and that was AFTER the switch was made from Bledsoe to Romo. Romo still only led them to 9-7

So in 4 years Parcells went 10-6, 6-10, 9-7, 9-7. But he had brought in the foundation players in Ware, Spears, Barber, Romo a culture change and something for Wade to work with

[Hiro]

Other than Kerrigan, there aren't even any other rookies to enjoy watching regularly. Jenkins and Hankerson are done for the year and the rest of the newbies don't get enough regular playing time to properly evaluate.

And while we're at it, did I actually blame Shanahan for Hankerson's injury or simply ask a question about pushing a rookie too hard too fast?
Murf, I enjoy your articles and feel that typically you're pretty spot on with your analyses. Even when I feel you're being a bit hard on the administration, you do bring up good points.

This though, I kinda feel you're asking for it to be both ways. You want a guy like Hankerson to be properly evaluated and get lots of playing time. At the same time though, you wonder if he was pushed too hard? Murf, this is the NFL. All rookies are going to be asked to work harder than they ever have before, and they are going to pushed to see how far their abilities can take them. What we end up seeing, as a result, are which rookies respond to the push by showing progress, and those who won't. In my opinion, Hankerson showed more this year as a receiver than a guy like Devin Thomas in his two years here (who mostly showed more of his athleticism than his progress as a receiver).

I'm disappointed for him that he got hurt, but I'm really optimistic about his future, arguably because he may have been pushed.

Other than that though, I will argue in the short term, the Redskins aren't better off. In the long term though? I believe we're in a position to be better for years than we have in a long time.

[Hooper]

Please point to anywhere in this column where I suggest the coach should be removed. And while we're at it, did I actually blame Shanahan for Hankerson's injury or simply ask a question about pushing a rookie too hard too fast?

You can't ask if Shanny is to blame for Hank's injury... then say you don't blame him at all when called on it. That's ridiculous.

Just like you can't kill Shanny for trading McNabb when you were a huge fan of the move and the player. Edit: you can bash him for it I guess. Just don't act like you were always against it. That's why I get to do as unaccountable fan.

[KingGibbs]

I'm completely onboard with the rebuild and the fact that I show no emotions after a loss only proves that. I do however think Shanny has made enough mistakes to set the rebuild back. Next year we will most likely have yet another QB and my fear is that Shanny will be given another pass based on that alone.

With the cap space and draft picks we have next year I fully expect a dramatic turnaround new QB or not. If the Matt Ryan's and Joe Flacco's can make the playoffs their first year then so can Shanny with his new QB if that QB is given a good supporting cast. Jim Harbaugh is another reason to increase the heat on Shanny because that team is having success with basically the same team, only Harbaugh has cahnged the culture and the players have bought into his way of thinking.

[themurf]

Murf, I enjoy your articles and feel that typically you're pretty spot on with your analyses. Even when I feel you're being a bit hard on the administration, you do bring up good points.

This though, I kinda feel you're asking for it to be both ways. You want a guy like Hankerson to be properly evaluated and get lots of playing time. At the same time though, you wonder if he was pushed too hard? Murf, this is the NFL. All rookies are going to be asked to work harder than they ever have before, and they are going to pushed to see how far their abilities can take them. What we end up seeing, as a result, are which rookies respond to the push by showing progress, and those who won't. In my opinion, Hankerson showed more this year as a receiver than a guy like Devin Thomas in his two years here (who mostly showed more of his athleticism than his progress as a receiver).

I'm disappointed for him that he got hurt, but I'm really optimistic about his future, arguably because he may have been pushed.

Other than that though, I will argue in the short term, the Redskins aren't better off. In the long term though? I believe we're in a position to be better for years than we have in a long time.


You can't ask if Shanny is to blame for Hank's injury... then say you don't blame him at all when called on it. That's ridiculous.

Just like you can't kill Shanny for trading McNabb when you were a huge fan of the move and the player. Edit: you can bash him for it I guess. Just don't act like you were always against it. That's why I get to do as unaccountable fan.

I don't have the answer on what happened with Hankerson. I don't know enough about the situation to say one way or the other, I'm simply asking if it's unreasonable to think that going from non-factor to being on the field for 45 snaps before his injury against Miami was a bit too much stress on his body. My guess as to why Helu hasn't gotten more than 10 carries in a game is because they're slowly working him in, so I'm wondering if Hankerson would still be in the lineup if it had been a more gradual transition from inactive to on the field for nearly every offensive snap.

[skinsdude]

The way that I interpret what Murf is saying about Hankersons injury is that Shanahan kept him on the bench for so long and then attempted to make him a focal point of our offense immediately instead of easing him into the rotation.

[Hooper]

Harbaugh is doing a great job, but he inherited a decent roster. Better than the Skins for sure, especially in the trenches. It's well known that the players in San Fran thought Singletary was in way over his head and had tuned him out.

But again, Harbaugh is doing a great job. That dude scares me.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Harbaugh is doing a great job, but he inherited a decent roster. Better than the Skins for sure, especially in the trenches. It's well known that the players in San Fran thought Singletary was in way over his head and had tuned him out.

But again, Harbaugh is doing a great job. That dude scares me.

I was calling for us to bring in Harbaugh back in 2009 (http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?308930-The-Jim-Harbaugh-bandwagon-for-next-head-coach)

Great scheme, agressive, motivator, I think he is going to be an outstanding HC. If he hits on a QB, look out

In fact, in that thread Rufus T Fly made the internet's first ever "Suck for Luck" post. Good job Rufus!

[Boss_Hogg]

I hope/pray that everyone on the coaching staff comes back next year, that includes Kyle. Sure the numbers aren't very good, but I do see a more disciplined team (less penalties and no headcases).

[themurf]

Harbaugh is doing a great job, but he inherited a decent roster. Better than the Skins for sure, especially in the trenches. It's well known that the players in San Fran thought Singletary was in way over his head and had tuned him out.

But again, Harbaugh is doing a great job. That dude scares me.

You're absolutely right about San Francisco. They had the bulk of the pieces in place. Just need the right coach to come in and maximize the talent on the roster. Night and day difference from what Shanahan inherited here.


I hope/pray that everyone on the coaching staff comes back next year, that includes Kyle. Sure the numbers aren't very good, but I do see a more disciplined team (less penalties and no headcases).

I agree ... for the most part. Guys like Trent Williams and DeAngelo Hall continue to try to get into shoving matches far too often. That's a lack of discipline and someone from the coaching staff needs to hold players accountable when they continue to act so selfishly.

[Hooper]

I don't have the answer on what happened with Hankerson. I don't know enough about the situation to say one way or the other, I'm simply asking if it's unreasonable to think that going from non-factor to being on the field for 45 snaps before his injury against Miami was a bit too much stress on his body. My guess as to why Helu hasn't gotten more than 10 carries in a game is because they're slowly working him in, so I'm wondering if Hankerson would still be in the lineup if it had been a more gradual transition from inactive to on the field for nearly every offensive snap.

I love ya, Murf, but that is really reaching. It's not like Hank hadn't been practicing. What if he had played every down in week one and got hurt?

Injuries happen. It's bad luck. Guy landed bad playing a violent game. Also, he's a Redskin and we're cursed.

---------- Post added November-22nd-2011 at 07:21 PM ----------


I hope/pray that everyone on the coaching staff comes back next year, that includes Kyle. Sure the numbers aren't very good, but I do see a more disciplined team (less penalties and no headcases).

Kyle is a punching bag, but my God, I have never seen receivers more open on a regular basis than in his scheme. And we're not talking Calvin Johnson here.

[Darkstarr]

I think shanny has done a fine job, Yes he has made mistakes, everyone does. There was nobody to build around on this team when he got here. The team was devoid of talent. In 2 drafts he has brought in the franchise's LT, 2 hard hitting young DRAFTED linebackers, a rb who has potential, a fb i like, a wr who got hurt but most seem to like and liked the pick at the time, a DL (jenkins) who alot questioned yet everyone fell in love with before he got hurt. How much do you expect? Injuries have killed this team. This team is not deep enough on talent to absorb those injuries give it time.

1. Again I point out in the last 10 years was there a better draft move then moving down and getting kerrigan and extra picks instead of taking Gabbert like so many wanted? The Mcnabb deal sucked horrible, but as bad as that was, the kerrigan move is turning out to be absolute genius. Plz mention that!!!

[Hooper]

1. Again I point out in the last 10 years was there a better draft move then moving down and getting kerrigan and extra picks instead of taking Gabbert like so many wanted? The Mcnabb deal sucked horrible, but as bad as that was, the kerrigan move is turning out to be absolute genius. Plz mention that!!!

I am still trying to figure out why scouts loved Gabbert so much. His hair maybe? It seems every draft has an overhyped QB. Let's hope we avoid the 2012 version of Gabbert.

[KingGibbs]

You're absolutely right about San Francisco. They had the bulk of the pieces in place. Just need the right coach to come in and maximize the talent on the roster. Night and day difference from what Shanahan inherited here.

How many people thought that about their roster before this year? I guarantee you there weren't many. It' s helluva lot easier to say it now and if someone said they saw the success they are having now? They're lying.

[SkinsHokieFan]

How many people thought that about their roster before this year? I guarantee you there weren't many. It' s helluva lot easier to say it now and if someone said they saw the success they are having now? They're lying.

I'll be honest, I thought they were going to win that division LAST year with the roster they had and the finish they had to the 2009 season (finishing up 8-8)

I was stunned by that collapse last season. And to be fair, a whole bunch of those games were close (like the New Orleans game on MNF in week 2)

[themurf]

How many people thought that about their roster before this year? I guarantee you there weren't many. It' s helluva lot easier to say it now and if someone said they saw the success they are having now? They're lying.

With San Francisco (and basically every other football team in the history of the NFL), it all comes down to the coach and the quarterback. No one thought Alex Smith was any good until Harbaugh found a way to mask his flaws and utilize his strengths. Now, they're the second-best team in the league.

Think he'll answer the phone if The Rex Cannon calls with a few questions?

[Hooper]

I agree ... for the most part. Guys like Trent Williams and DeAngelo Hall continue to try to get into shoving matches far too often. That's a lack of discipline and someone from the coaching staff needs to hold players accountable when they continue to act so selfishly.

Yes. It is annoying. Shanny needs to get Silverback in line. I think Haslett is a hothead who likes Hall's act. Shanny should tell Haslett to get him in line and to stop bringing everybody on 3rd and long against a mobile QB. It's cost about five games now.

---------- Post added November-22nd-2011 at 07:32 PM ----------


Think he'll answer the phone if The Rex Cannon calls with a few questions?

My stupid prediction for the rest of the year is that Rex plays well enough to open some eyes around the league.

And that Houston will wish they had him after Leinart/pretty Beck kills them by refusing to go downfield.

[TheLongshot]

Few in DC wanted JC at QB, so the Easter Massacre trade was made for McScab. Yeah, panic move by the team.

Maybe few on this board, but in general the fanbase was very supportive of Campbell. I remember the year rumors were swirling about Sanchez the fans at the FedEx draft party, fans were showing their support of Campbell and cheered the fact that the Jets took him. As for McNabb, fans always get excited about the big names, at least until they don't produce. I don't think it was a panic move at all, but a deal Shanahan felt he couldn't refuse. Unfortunately for him, he should have. That move and the move for Brown probably set the team back a year, at least.

Are we better off than the 2009 team? Personally, other than the lack of drama, I'd have to say no. It is funny, but this team seems to resemble that 2009 squad a lot. Mediocre offense with occasional standout games, the starting RB going down and the revolving door for the rest of the season at the position. OL injuries and exposing the lack of depth. A defense that looks good, but has a tough time making the critical stop where needed. The more things change, the more things seem to stay the same...

[themurf]

You can't ask if Shanny is to blame for Hank's injury... then say you don't blame him at all when called on it. That's ridiculous.

Just like you can't kill Shanny for trading McNabb when you were a huge fan of the move and the player. Edit: you can bash him for it I guess. Just don't act like you were always against it. That's why I get to do as unaccountable fan.

I'm still not mad about rolling the dice with McNabb. I'm disappointed with the way Shanahan handled the situation once he made up his mind McNabb was no longer the guy who he thought he was acquiring, but I'm not hating on them for making the initial trade.

That being said, it was definitely a move that set the franchise back these last two seasons. I'd love to know what Plan B would have been last season if the McNabb deal never happened. Keep Campbell? Roll with Grossman from Day 1? Let Kyle Shanahan play the position?

[NLC1054]

Shanny should tell Haslett to get him in line and to stop bringing everybody on 3rd and long against a mobile QB. It's cost about five games now.

We didn't send everyone this week. We showed cover 0, then bailed out and rushed 5. Dez is covered on the hot read slant by D-Hall and Otogwe , but Rak loses outside contain and lets' Romo gets outside of the pocket, Dez adjusted to the ball, first down.

[pjfootballer]

We have 18 picks in the next two drafts. That's five years of picks for Cerrato.

Not only is that hilarious :ols: but so true.:D

[Hooper]

We didn't send everyone this week. We showed cover 0, then bailed out and rushed 5. Dez is covered on the hot read slant by D-Hall and Otogwe , but Rak loses outside contain and lets' Romo gets outside of the pocket, Dez adjusted to the ball, first down.

I stand corrected.

It just seems like third and long in crunch time is terrible for us.

I had to blame somebody!

---------- Post added November-22nd-2011 at 07:39 PM ----------


I'm still not mad about rolling the dice with McNabb. I'm disappointed with the way Shanahan handled the situation once he made up his mind McNabb was no longer the guy who he thought he was acquiring, but I'm not hating on them for making the initial trade.

That being said, it was definitely a move that set the franchise back these last two seasons. I'd love to know what Plan B would have been last season if the McNabb deal never happened. Keep Campbell? Roll with Grossman from Day 1? Let Kyle Shanahan play the position?

I think it was Rex. Which would meant low expectations/rebuild from day one.

[TheLongshot]

With San Francisco (and basically every other football team in the history of the NFL), it all comes down to the coach and the quarterback. No one thought Alex Smith was any good until Harbaugh found a way to mask his flaws and utilize his strengths. Now, they're the second-best team in the league.

You say that, but SF seemed to believe in him enough to keep him around for so long. His situation was worse than Campbell's in that I think he had a different OC every year. (There might have been an exception the two years Singletary was in charge.) Not to mention having mostly defended-minded head coaches. Harbaugh has done a hell of a job with him, but I think Smith deserves some credit as well.

Imagine that: a head coach actually adjusting to the talent he has and working to his strengths. We haven't had enough of that in this town...

[Hooper]

Deleted because it's old news.

[skinsdude]

It's way too early to ask this question. There's been numerous threads on the horrible shape of the roster when Shanny came on board.

Few in DC wanted JC at QB, so the Easter Massacre trade was made for McScab. Yeah, panic move by the team.

Of the guys on the current roster, the question remains how many should really be here? Shanny is weeding out the wheat from the chaff. But there were so many holes to fill that almost anybody was an upgrade from what was there.

When you say "few in DC wanted JC at QB", who are the few that you are referring to? The fans or coaching staff? Are you suggesting that it was the fans that prompted the trade when you characterize it as a panic move?

[SKIN4WAHOOZ]

I'm just trying to take a step back and see how much closer this team is to being good again now compared to the day he took over.

I'd be a little concerned that someone has to "take a step back" to see this. This team is missing a little depth and a franchise QB all of which will be addressed in the offseason.

To address your question about these players being a long term solution...I would guess you are looking at the current roster. If so, I would have to say yes and no. Some players have been added to fill holes (see above, depth). However, a lot of them are young players who are currently getting invaluable playing time in only their 1st, 2nd and 3rd year. This will pay off in the end. Do they look as if they have no talent, probably so. But lets not forget, they are 1st, 2nd and 3rd year players..

All this questioning MS's ability is just (forgive me) dumb as hell!! Please find us someone else who has 2 SB rings. Made it to AFC championship game with Jake Plummer. Was consistently relevant with and WITHOUT J. Elway. If you dont beleive that, then look it up.

[TheLongshot]

All this questioning MS's ability is just (forgive me) dumb as hell!! Please find us someone else who has 2 SB rings. Made it to AFC championship game with Jake Plummer. Was consistently relevant with and WITHOUT J. Elway. If you dont beleive that, then look it up.

Find me a coach that managed to find success with a second team. The closest you'll come is Parcells, and he never got any of his teams post-Giants to a SB.

If we aren't allowed to question, we should shut this board down. Isn't this what discussion boards are for?

[SKIN4WAHOOZ]

I'm still not mad about rolling the dice with McNabb. I'm disappointed with the way Shanahan handled the situation once he made up his mind McNabb was no longer the guy who he thought he was acquiring, but I'm not hating on them for making the initial trade.QUOTE]


Id say MS did mcnabb a favor the way he handled it....He could of came out and said...the dude is dumb, lazy, out of shape, doesnt want to listen to coaches, doesnt know the playbook and doesnt seem to interested in learning it...... Had MS been honest about the douche bag, he probably wouldnt have had to the chance to play in minnesota...I mean it only took them few games to figure the samething out about the guy.

---------- Post added November-22nd-2011 at 03:02 PM ----------

[QUOTE=TheLongshot;8709462]Find me a coach that managed to find success with a second team. The closest you'll come is Parcells, and he never got any of his teams post-Giants to a SB.

If we aren't allowed to question, we should shut this board down. Isn't this what discussion boards are for?

You can question all you want...and I can tell you how rediculous it is also

And let me get this straight...you are saying MS has no chance because this is his 2nd team??? See above "how rediculous you sound"..good gosh man

[VRIEL1]

Simple answer.... YES.

Look you can't expect to change HC's every two yrs and get the results your looking for. We fans asked for continuity, we asked for a decent HC, we asked for a real GM, how about we let them fix this mess that took over 10yrs to create and leave them alone.

[brettstr]

Why in the world would Dan fire Shanahan? He is staking his own reputation on being patient and taking this team through a rebuild with the people HE brought in to do it. I am growing tired and weary of hearing people talk about firirng Shanahan. After about 8 years of placing a non competing team on the field then and only then will Dan consider making some changes. We seem to be the only franchise in history with a revolving door of coaches, and believe me we made some mistakes along the way i.e. Marty Shottenheimer.End of story.

---------- Post added November-22nd-2011 at 03:07 PM ----------


Simple answer.... YES.

Look you can't expect to change HC's every two yrs and get the results your looking for. We fans asked for continuity, we asked for a decent HC, we asked for a real GM, how about we let them fix this mess that took over 10yrs to create and leave them alone.

Agree 10000000 %

[authentic]

Thanks, dude. I don't want people to think I'm bashing Mike Shanahan or calling for his removal. Anyone who reads the columne will hopefully see that. I'm just trying to take a step back and see how much closer this team is to being good again now compared to the day he took over. We all appreciate the fact that the drama queens and distractions are gone, but how many of these players should truly be considered long-term solutions the Redskins can build a franchise around? That's my question for the day.

I think we're in better shape now than then because of the way we have gone about constructing the team. As someone else said 12 draft picks this past draft, 9 in '12, 9 in '13... Releasing Old, overrated, and overpaid vets. And not signing FAs at a premium. I also think that the offensive system is in place, we just need the pieces to put make it successful. I hear you, i don't like the results of this past season, but I have faith that it will improve....

[Riggo#44]

Great, thought provoking article as usual Murph -- thanks for your hard work! Can you give Jason Reid a lesson or 2...thousand? :)


I tend to agree, but to play devil's advocate a bit - how are the Redskins light years ahead of where they were? The stats and the standings remain pitiful and I'm not sure there are 10 players on the roster who are definitely building blocks. Yes, the roster is younger. But is it actually better? Yes, the salary cap situation has improved, but that has as much to do with the uncapped year as anything this regime has done.

Well, unless another regime very wisely purged the roster of horrible contracts and paid out bonuses to alleviate the cap strain, I think they deserve a little credit too. Not every team did that...

The results may not be better, I think we are in better shape. More draft picks legitimately made the roster this year than I can remember (no I am not counting the year when all the picks were kept simply b/c they were draft picks.) As someone pointed out earlier we have a decade worth of picks over the next two years. We no longer have to worry about teams like the Bengals saving us from ourselves. The roster might not be as talented on paper right now, but I think it's a much more cohesive group. And as we are all very well aware -- paper talent doesn't equal results. We are building a team, not a collection of players.



In the last month alone, Shanahan has been shut out for the first time in his head coaching career and is in the midst of his longest losing streak of his NFL career. I'm someone who is on board with him being here for at least five years, but it'd be nice to see some progress between now and then.

Other than Kerrigan, there aren't even any other rookies to enjoy watching regularly. Jenkins and Hankerson are done for the year and the rest of the newbies don't get enough regular playing time to properly evaluate.

Hank was such a kick in the dinger. He was really looking good! I do think we're going to see more and more of Helu over the next couple of weeks. I also want to see more of DeJon "Mustard" Gomes at saftey. Anything to not have Reed Doughty in coverage! Still want to see more of Perry Riley. There is something to watch, just not much right now. However, that is more due to injuries than incompetence. Another distinct difference from Snyderatto!


Please point to anywhere in this column where I suggest the coach should be removed. And while we're at it, did I actually blame Shanahan for Hankerson's injury or simply ask a question about pushing a rookie too hard too fast?

Not sure if he was pushed too hard or too fast, or the kid was just having a great game and was unlucky (it was his 3rd start...Helu had way more action in his 2nd game...). He really looked like he was coming into his own -- he was just open all of the time.

[illone]

I thnk it's too early to tell which players are worth building around. Regardless of that, though, we are going to be building around all the guys from last years draft, orakpo, Landry (maybe) and most of the free agents from this year sans Grossman/Beck and maybe Hall.

I don't think you will see as much turnover in year 3 as you saw in year 2.

Me personally I think Mike Shanahan is done, but could definitely be wrong about that part. Just not happy with the fact that there doesn't really seem to be a identity on this team.

[Maximus71]

Shanny needs 4 years of drafting and developing a young qb!! We will be great if he finds his qb in the draft, in 4 years teams like Dallas, giants, pats etc..will be on a decline (my belief only) due to their aging qbs. We could be the hot and heavy contender, give it time people. Shanny and this team need time to gel, as long as Danny doesn't get involved we should improve within the next two or three years (playoff team).

[Crazy Levi]

Shanny's mistake IMO was not rebuilding in year #1. t.

Yep, that's the only real gripe I have so far with his tenure. It was a real waste, not to mention that 2nd round draft pick really would have been nice to hold on to.

[mr_neon]

*How much blame should be assigned to Shanahan for Hankerson’s injury? The guy was stuck riding the bench for the first two months of the season and the basically became a focal point overnight. Was it unrealistic to think his body could go from zero to 60 overnight? Did his coach set the rookie wideout up for failure by throwing him into the fire too fast?


This can be summed up in word word. No. If I need to expand on that, then absolutely not.

[sportjunkie07]

Shanny's mistake IMO was not rebuilding in year #1. IMO we are basically in year #1 of a rebuild, young team, lots of picks playing -- if we are going to expect instant results its unfair. they are playing poorly thus far this year, but many talk about tampa building themselves into a contender quicker than most, well in year #1 they were 3-13. it's not unusual for it to be the darkest before the dawn when you are doing a rebuild -- and the enemy IMO is to panic and not to allow the team to take a step back now to take multiple steps forward later.

it would be one thing if this would be Vinny -- we'd be looking at the future with salary cap constraints and few picks. with this regime, we are under the cap, and have 9 picks slated for each of the next two drafts. Night and day. Lets let the movie play out.

yeah, id have to agree with that. i think shanny realized the team was bad, but im not sure if he realized just how far we were behind league average until late in his first season. if he did, he might not have spent high draft picks on McNabb. though we didnt have much at the position, so he did need someone to be the QB.

but, i like what shanny is doing so far and the wins will come. i dont think anyone can make a great comparison to other teams that have "turned it around", because im not fully confident in the turnarounds of the 49ers and bucs, and, furthermore, i dont believe they had it as bad as we did when shanny took over.

in the past we wouldve slapped bandaids on the team via free agency and mortgaging the future with traded draft picks. such might have led to an extra win or two per season but no real results. shanny is building the right way now, and we'll see the fruits of it in the next couple years.

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

Murf, did you write this article after only getting 2 hrs. of sleep or something...

I've seen better from you especially from a critical standpoint.

[Destino]

he probably wouldnt have had to the chance to play in minnesota...I mean it only took them few games to figure the same thing out about the guy.
What exactly do you think the Vikings figured out? Ponder is 1-4 and McNabb was 1-5. The Vikings were scoring 20.2ppg with McNabb and have scored 17.8 with Ponder. McNabb has better passing stats this year than Ponder. The problem is the Vikings offense isn't good enough to win games with either in that situation you might as well start the rookie and get him some experience. Their defense allows 27.1 (3rd worst in the NFL) and short of signing Green Bay's entire passing offense nothing the Vikings do is going to result in winning this season.

McNabb is not good. Let that be clear. I don't think he's a starting QB at this point in his career or outside of Philly for that matter. I do think however that he is better than Rex Grossman and John Beck. If Shanahan had known just how bad these two were going to be McNabb would still be here.

[Skinsinparadise]

Yep, that's the only real gripe I have so far with his tenure. It was a real waste, not to mention that 2nd round draft pick really would have been nice to hold on to.

Agree. As to whether Shanny is the answer or is not is like asking the audience early in the movie whether you like the ending of it. I won't know until it ends and we see the results. right now we can just witness the methods and decide whether they should yield instant results or bust or whether we should be patient. IMO the methods used now -- add picks, go young, be prudent with the salary cap are the way most good teams build. whether Shanny is the right guy to execute those methods remains to be seen, but i really like their draft and free agent class this year so am cool so far.

[Darkstarr]

Find me a coach that managed to find success with a second team. The closest you'll come is Parcells, and he never got any of his teams post-Giants to a SB.

If we aren't allowed to question, we should shut this board down. Isn't this what discussion boards are for?

Wow really? Hmm parcells had success with the Pats and the jets. Holmgren took the seahawks to the super bowl and got robbed by the refs. Do those count as success? Dick Vermeil took the eagles to the sb and won it with the rams. Do u actually research anything?

[tibbidoe]

Please point to anywhere in this column where I suggest the coach should be removed. And while we're at it, did I actually blame Shanahan for Hankerson's injury or simply ask a question about pushing a rookie too hard too fast?

I think it's just like any other injury, as far as the fact that they just happen. Hank's PT increased bit-by-bit, he was getting more into the games. Then he has a breakout game (for a rookie WR on a bad team), and BAM, injury. I don't think Shanny should be blamed for pushing him too fast. Had this been in the first month of the season, I could see the point. But we're headed towards the close of the season. It was time to see what the kid could do.

Unfortunate, but injuries happen.

Great read as always, sir.

[PortisBetts]

Its threads like this why i love this place. Everyone seems to have the same perspective. I think not only did the front office and coaching staff have to buy into a full rebuild, but so did we as fans. And i think we did. I know i did. I love what Shanahan is doing with this team. He is bringing in talent, slowly buy surely getting younger and building depth. No one is perfect, so the miss on Mcnabb i dont mind. I want to see my team always trying to get better and thats what Shanahan is doing. We are obviously going to get worse before we get better because we are playing a lot, and i mean A LOT of young players who have little experience. It sucks that we are losing now, but Shanahan isnt stupid, nor a loser. He knew the mess he was getting into and he came in to fix it. The best thing we as fans can do is keep perspective and let Shanahan build this team like a professional football team.

Good article Murf. I dont agree with the Shanahan possibly causing Hankerson injury, but everything else is pretty spot on.

[TheLongshot]

Wow really? Hmm parcells had success with the Pats and the jets. Holmgren took the seahawks to the super bowl and got robbed by the refs. Do those count as success? Dick Vermeil took the eagles to the sb and won it with the rams. Do u actually research anything?

I'll give you a few points. You are correct there are retread coaches that brought teams to the Superbowl. (In addition to Parcells, Holmgren and Vermeil, there is also Dan Reeves and Don Shula.) But, point in my favor, none of these coaches won the SB with their new team. Also, that's only 5 retread coaches in the 40 years there has been a Superbowl. Doesn't give one a huge amount of hope that this time it will be different.

Edit: ug, screwed up again. That's what I get for reading Wikipedia. Vermiel did win in St Louis, but wasn't able to follow it up in KC.

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

What exactly do you think the Vikings figured out? Ponder is 1-4 and McNabb was 1-5. The Vikings were scoring 20.2ppg with McNabb and have scored 17.8 with Ponder. McNabb has better passing stats this year than Ponder. The problem is the Vikings offense isn't good enough to win games with either in that situation you might as well start the rookie and get him some experience. Their defense allows 27.1 (3rd worst in the NFL) and short of signing Green Bay's entire passing offense nothing the Vikings do is going to result in winning this season.

McNabb is not good. Let that be clear. I don't think he's a starting QB at this point in his career or outside of Philly for that matter. I do think however that he is better than Rex Grossman and John Beck. If Shanahan had known just how bad these two were going to be McNabb would still be here.

Save for the interceptions and immobility, how much worse is Grossman compared to McNabb at this stage in his career?

[Destino]

Save for the interceptions and immobility, how much worse is Grossman compared to McNabb at this stage in his career?

:ols::ols: very funny.

[LuRedskins]

the building blocks coming into shanny's tenure here would be orakpo, landry, and maybe moss (a bit old)? I wouldnt count davis since he hadnt done anything close to what he put together in the beginning of this year. But he's added kerrigan, williams, hankerson did very well in limited opportunities, davis came into his own, brought in hightower, jenkins looked solid before the injury, helu has shown flashes, and riley played great the past couple games, and montgomery has been a huge upgrade over rabach. so shanny has tripled the quality players on our roster in 2 years, and had a good season going this year before we hit an unbelievable string of injuries. As for hankerson's injury, i might think it was shanny's fault if he pulled his hammy or something like that, but the torn hip muscle is just bad luck from going down awkwardly

[rick7423]

Put me firmly in the camp of this team being headed in the right direction and being light years ahead of where it was two years ago.

+1!!! Mike and company are rebuilding a team from the ground up. He took over a team that was... well, horrible (I am being kind). After 20 years of total mismanagement, it will take awhile to fix the damage.

I will give him 2+ years more. I hope he is the coach for 10!

[Blue Collar Skins]

Find me a coach that managed to find success with a second team. The closest you'll come is Parcells, and he never got any of his teams post-Giants to a SB.

If we aren't allowed to question, we should shut this board down. Isn't this what discussion boards are for? Umm Joe Gibbs. During the lockout, he made a winning team out of scrubs even against Dallas' first team, but I digress and I know you know that one. Joe Gibbs was also the only head coach to win the superbowl 3 times with 3 different quarterbacks. I would also argue that no head coach will ever do that again. Sorry, I am just stuck on missing Joe Gibbs. :silly:

[The Tris]

Are we better off than the 2009 team? Personally, other than the lack of drama, I'd have to say no. It is funny, but this team seems to resemble that 2009 squad a lot. Mediocre offense with occasional standout games, the starting RB going down and the revolving door for the rest of the season at the position. OL injuries and exposing the lack of depth. A defense that looks good, but has a tough time making the critical stop where needed. The more things change, the more things seem to stay the same...

Well, besides the whole age difference...

[skinsmania123]

Nope not at all. Seems to be same movie/play, slightly different plot.

[Hooper]

Save for the interceptions and immobility, how much worse is Grossman compared to McNabb at this stage in his career?

I think Good Rex -- like last week -- is better than Donny Mac at this point, who might be out of the league next year.

Also, the rest of the guys on the team actually respect Rex and don't think he's two-faced. Two-chinned maybe, but then he got sick and lost all that weight.

[themurf]

Its threads like this why i love this place. Everyone seems to have the same perspective. I think not only did the front office and coaching staff have to buy into a full rebuild, but so did we as fans. And i think we did. I know i did. I love what Shanahan is doing with this team. He is bringing in talent, slowly buy surely getting younger and building depth. No one is perfect, so the miss on Mcnabb i dont mind. I want to see my team always trying to get better and thats what Shanahan is doing. We are obviously going to get worse before we get better because we are playing a lot, and i mean A LOT of young players who have little experience. It sucks that we are losing now, but Shanahan isnt stupid, nor a loser. He knew the mess he was getting into and he came in to fix it. The best thing we as fans can do is keep perspective and let Shanahan build this team like a professional football team.

Good article Murf. I dont agree with the Shanahan possibly causing Hankerson injury, but everything else is pretty spot on.

Agreed. I don't care if other fans agree with my stance or not. I love this place because of the awesome discussions that come out of columns like these. Cheers fellas. All the way around.

[ciresolstice]

I'm fine with Shanahan being the coach, while it hasn't translated into a better record or winning, there were some good moves made, some good players drafted, the philosophy seems like one that will translate into success for years to come..just not immediately. I'm not a huge fan of the Shanahans, don't get me wrong, but I think you have to stick with it and let the man do his job with the adequate amount of time it takes to get a franchise going in the right direction that has been depleted and dysfunctional for years.

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

I think Good Rex -- like last week -- is better than Donny Mac at this point, who might be out of the league next year.

Also, the rest of the guys on the team actually respect Rex and don't think he's two-faced. Two-chinned maybe, but then he got sick and lost all that weight.

And is why he's probably playing at a faster pace.

[Destino]

I think Good Rex -- like last week -- is better than Donny Mac at this point, who might be out of the league next year.

Which would matter if bad Rex wasn't the dominant personality. He's turned the ball over twice (or more) in 6 of his 7 starts this season. He's accounted for two (or more) touchdowns in 3 of those 7 starts.

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

Which would matter if bad Rex wasn't the dominant personality. He's turned the ball over twice (or more) in 6 of his 7 starts this season. He's accounted for two (or more) touchdowns in 3 of those 7 starts.

Yet, if he's consistent with his play (not withstanding the interceptions) then he'd gained respect among the coaching staff. Maybe even enough to warrant him a new contract with certain incentives and provisions. Of course, we'd definitely draft a quarterback but then he'd have time to develop while the rest of the team is being built.

[Destino]

Yet, if he's consistent with his play (not withstanding the interceptions) then he'd gained respect among the coaching staff. Maybe even enough to warrant him a new contract with certain incentives and provisions. Of course, we'd definitely draft a quarterback but then he'd have time to develop while the rest of the team is being built.

You can't write off interceptions like that. An NFL QB needs upside or history to have people look past a season with more Int's than TD's.

[Hooper]

You can't write off interceptions like that. An NFL QB needs upside or history to have people look past a season with more Int's than TD's.

Casserly was on the radio today saying Rex has really stood out on film the past two weeks. Said he's basically doing it all by himself and very few QBs could do much better when you look at the "talent" he's surrounded by.

He's a great number two.

[skinny21]

I think we're absolutely better off. FAs are younger, character is improved, young guys are getting opportunies (even if this is mostly due to injuries), and we've increased the number of draft picks (as opposed to doling them out left and right*).

I know this offense is ugly, but I've got to give Shanahan credit for drafting an LT in the first and replacing Rabach, two of the biggest things fans were clamoring for. He also beefed up the D-line (none of the "d-linemen should only be taken late in the draft" bs), another thing fans had been calling for.

He hasn't had enough time to get all the building blocks for a franchise, but he's made a ton of smart moves IMO.

*the McNabb and Brown trades notwithstanding. To be fair on the Brown trade though, he was a good LT coming off injury that we got got for, what, 2 mid-round picks? Don't even have too much of a problem with the McNabb trade... its not like we gave up 2 first rounders for him and we did need a qb pretty desperately. As someone said earlier, my real problem with the situation was how the Shanahans treated it/him.

[bedlamVR]

Murf I appreciate your writing but this to me is one of those tipping point articles we tend to see with a loosing record .

While you say you are not calling for Shanahan to be fired it almost seems your mouth is saying one thing while the body is saying another . The point at which the article is focusing soley on the negative aspects of the last two years, does sound like the point of the article is to turn the page . Especially stretching to blame injuries on the head coach , it makes it hard to come away with the idea that this article offers any support to the current regime given the important question the article poses .

You also make the point the 2010 draft sucked ... i disagree it was not great but not a flame out . Williams gets very bad rap for not being Chris Samuels, but injuries aside he has played at a very high level this season . Yes he does need to cool off a bit but the OL with him is much much better than without, 2nd round pick - sure McNabb was a mistake, 3rd round - Brown was a risk reward move that hasn't quite payed off . He is good at times but not dominanting and bad at time but not bench worthy bad, Riley is looking solid, Adam Carricker has 5 sacks as a rotational DE in a 3-4 scheme (yet people call for him to go) and Terrance Austin is a James Thrash like special teams specialist who can contribute ....compare that to drafts even under Gibbs (like 2005)

Perhaps another question would be for another article "Would the Redskins be better without the Shanahans ?" The way things are going now it is easy to say yes, but this team, the way it is composed was going to struggle, and the reason we are here is 19 years (and more) of misrule . We stuck too long with Norv and Charlie C but then reacted by chopping and changing everything ...we need a moment of quiet reflection and I have to say there is more positive than negative that happened over the last 2 seasons . If people really don't see that then they have short memories .

[themurf]

Casserly was on the radio today saying Rex has really stood out on film the past two weeks. Said he's basically doing it all by himself and very few QBs could do much better when you look at the "talent" he's surrounded by.

He's a great number two.

My stance all season long has been that Rex Grossman is a fine number-two quarterback and John Beck is a third-stringer. Unfortunately, that means the Redskins don't have a number one.

[paloosa]

I think the article says a lot about how things have been done around here for the longest time. Now that Shanahan has taken the team to greater dispair by being shut out for the first time and having a 6 game losing streak for the first time in his coaching career is probably an eye opener for him. But through it all he is going to either step down as HC or he is going to keep plugging away at getting this team to be a contender again. There is no gray area adn I doubt that Snyder is going to jump in this soon to fire him since they are good friends. Heck, he let Cerrato stay around for more years than that I think he is going to allow some leeway here but I have been wrong before. Anyway I think it was a good article.

[Riggo#44]

Casserly was on the radio today saying Rex has really stood out on film the past two weeks. Said he's basically doing it all by himself and very few QBs could do much better when you look at the "talent" he's surrounded by.

He's a great number two.

I've said all along that this was a year long try out for Mentor/Back up to the rookie next year...

[cjrugger]

Usually a big fan but you've lost me on this one

You say you wanted a rebuild, well you got one. Look at how bad the Nats and caps were as they stripped down and started over

The McNabb move sucked, but it set us back 1 year. I'll take that risk reward. Since then we've gone from the oldest team in the league to one of the youngest. We draft barkley in the first, sanu or another wr in the 2nd and I'll be very happy to with the direction of this team

[themurf]

Usually a big fan but you've lost me on this one

You say you wanted a rebuild, well you got one. Look at how bad the Nats and caps were as they stripped down and started over

The McNabb move sucked, but it set us back 1 year. I'll take that risk reward. Since then we've gone from the oldest team in the league to one of the youngest. We draft barkley in the first, sanu or another wr in the 2nd and I'll be very happy to with the direction of this team

I'm happy Shanahan is on board and am happy he's finally embracing the much-needed rebuild. But that doesn't mean I can't wonder if a year and a half into his tenure how much closer the team is to actually being respectable. I hope the entire coaching staff is here for a minimum of five seasons to finally give the franchise some stability and consistency. I'm just trying to take a moment to see how long and painful the journey is going to be moving forward. Either way, thanks for the feedback. Cheers.

[Riggo#44]

Find me a coach that managed to find success with a second team. The closest you'll come is Parcells, and he never got any of his teams post-Giants to a SB.

If we aren't allowed to question, we should shut this board down. Isn't this what discussion boards are for?

Pats in 97 went to the Super Bowl. Jets to the AFC championship shortly there after.

As for Shanahan's coaching ability -- everyone wants to talk about his record without Elway. What about the Broncos record without Shanahan?

[skins island connection]

Last spring, I went out to my garage, and it was the first time I've really looked around inside it for about 4 months.
It took me quite a bit of time to clean it out, re-evaluate what was trash and what was worth saving, and figuring out exactly what use I had for the things in it.
I can see Mike's dilemma...

[TheLongshot]

What about the Broncos record without Shanahan?

Considering that his successor managed to toss all of the offensive talent off the team before getting fired, it is kinda hard to judge. McDaniels almost actively destroyed that team.

[J3553]

the organization as a whole is better off with mike and bruce. at least you can see an honest effort to rebuild, even if they're reluctant to call it that. they've made some mistakes, but they're aren't perfect and this is a bit of a learning experience for everyone. as a fan, i've never been more comfortable with losing than i am now. i just wanna see production from the young players.

[KingGibbs]

Pats in 97 went to the Super Bowl. Jets to the AFC championship shortly there after.

As for Shanahan's coaching ability -- everyone wants to talk about his record without Elway. What about the Broncos record without Shanahan?

I'm not arguing with you, but I heard something very interesting on a sportstalk show last week. They said people claim Elway didn't win a SB until Shanny got there. They said an argument could be made that Elway didn't win a SB 'til Terrel Davis arrived. Had me going "Hmmmm."

[ytrain98]

Shanny's call of a timeout when Dallas was about to incur a delay of game penalty on the game-winning field goal attempt is inexcusable, is it not?

[Tsoe]

I enjoy reading your articles, but this was borderline unreadable. Just from an objective standpoint you seemed all over the place and left a lot out.

You open saying he did not inherit a playoff roster. So right of the bat, you cannot expect a winning record for this team. On the defensive side you vastly underrate some young players on the team. No mention of the solid year that Stephen Bowen and Adam Carriker have had so far? I'm sure Jenkins has a role to play in the future, but I don't see DE as a concern going forward. For YEARS, all the fan base asked for were some solid ends. With the switch to 3-4, Our front 7 is solid and Cofield has plugged in well into the Nose Tackle. ( He will never get crazy stats, he is an NT ) This just leaves the secondary to be "addressed". ( quotes because I'm not sure that 20 points a game is even bad )

Offensively, our Oline was a mess and will continue to be a mess when you are replacing Dockery, Rabach, Heyer, etc... While going from the Buge's Power run game to a ZBS. Look, pressures are up on the QB because of this line. Taking the Packers/Aaron Rodgers/Vick approach to this problem is to put Beck in and let him run for his life. Problem is, he seems to be a practice superstar and can't translate.

Receiving is quietly very improved from years past. Gibbs did a lot of great things for the club, but players like James Thrash has no business being a wideout for this club. Next year it looks like we are going with Moss, Hankerson, and Gaffney as a solid three. Paul, Austin, Robinson are not there yet. While I am not 100% sold on Hank, he looks like he turned the corner before the injury. Davis is a #1 TE, and we need to move away from the notion that 2 pro bowl tight ends make a team. It hasn't worked for the skins and whether it be Cooley or Paulsen, The backup isn't too shabby.

Qb remains an issue, and that is what is holding back this offense with a shotty line so far. However, look at our draft picks coming up. We have the ammo to make moves in both FA and the draft. McNabb didn't cost this team squat in the long run. He was an over-dramatic stop gap that needed to go.

While I agree that statistically this team looks poor, the article seemed very ESPN-esque. Lacking little insight into why these things are happening and more reactionary to stats. I am in no way lumping you with those pundits, your track record speaks for itself. Fans of this team need to see this club for what it is. The roster has emerging talent, but matching a completely different scheme with a new roster takes time and I agree with you on that.

[Duckus]

Most folks thought we would go 6-10, if everything went perfectly. It didn't. We have been ravaged with injuries. Going 4-12 is about where this team will/should end up given our talent level and injuries. I don't really understand why this is shocking or surprising.

Also, I love Joe Gibbs as much as the next fan, but the way Gibbs 2.0 ran our team is one of the reasons we are in the situation we find ourselves. Yea, he went to the playoffs twice, but it didn't come cheap.

My only problem with the article was the following.


After being inactive for the first month or so of the season, rookie receiver Leonard Hankerson had a breakout game against Miami … and then promptly injured his hip and was lost for the year.*

*How much blame should be assigned to Shanahan for Hankerson’s injury? The guy was stuck riding the bench for the first two months of the season and the basically became a focal point overnight. Was it unrealistic to think his body could go from zero to 60 overnight? Did his coach set the rookie wideout up for failure by throwing him into the fire too fast?

Running back Roy Helu has been fun to watch and his 4.9 yards per carry average is more than a yard better than anyone else on the roster, but he’s never been given more than 10 carries a game, so it’s still too early to know how much of the running game could/should rest upon his shoulders.

In a 3 paragraph span you rip a coach for playing a rookie off the bench too much too fast and "throwing him in the fire", and then follow it up by claiming we are not playing Helu enough? Which is it? Throw them in the fire or no?

[Riggo#44]

Considering that his successor managed to toss all of the offensive talent off the team before getting fired, it is kinda hard to judge. McDaniels almost actively destroyed that team.

Mike got fired one year too soon. The Broncos were sitting on a ton of talent, I think they would have been in the playoffs under Shanny in McDaniel's 1st year.

[Destino]

The redskins will not be better off until we find a QB. The reason isn't just because this is a QB league either. Our offense passes more than 60% of the time. No other coach hired by Dan Snyder has average less rushing attempts per game than Mike Shanahan or more passing attempts per game.

2011: 22.6 rushing attempts per game. 36.7 passing attempts per game. (61.9% passing)
2010: 21.9 rushing to 37.8 passing. (63.3% passing)

In an offense that is decidedly pass happy there simply won't be any success until a QB that can run the offense without averaging two turnovers a game can be found and signed.

[chaught76]

Hey Murf, quick question on the hypothetical side of things.

In your opinion, would Jim Zorn or any of other rotational head coaches still be coaching today if we had a better front office? I know your article was your assessment of where we are with Shannahan, but what impact would it have had on our team if Dan had stepped back earlier and Allen or someone like him would have stepped in sooner. I'm not trying to turn this into a bash Snyder thread, we have all been there and done that. The fact he is passionate about this team and was willing to step back says a lot. So, you were comparing Shannahan's team to his predecessors' teams; what effect, in your opinion, does a different front office have if it had been implemented sooner.

I don't think it would have helped Spurrier because that guy just seemed completely in over his, but maybe it would have helped some of the coaches, even Gibbs.

[BTBIRD 227]

To coin an old phrase,"Rome was not built over night". Shanahan, is moving in the right direction, as stated before Shanahan/Allen are cleaning up the roster and always evaluating the roster.Obviously, we need a infusioin of talent for QB and O line. The O line is the engine for the offense,and the QB is the driver. Gibbs had success because of a damn good O line and strong armed QB. Once you build this portion of the team you can build confidence. I want Shanahan to succeed, the next draft will make or break the Allen/ Shanahan regime. Hail :logo:

[Malcomb Kelly's Knees]

NOPE.

Jim hasselete might as well be the head coach since the only thing we do right is defense.

Shanahasbeen was brought here to fix the offense and he has done NOTHING right in that regards.

bust on mcnabb (2nd round pick, 4th round pick)
bust on jamall brown (3rd round pick)
trent williams sucks (4th overall pick)

[Riggo#44]

NOPE.

Jim hasselete might as well be the head coach since the only thing we do right is defense.

Shanahasbeen was brought here to fix the offense and he has done NOTHING right in that regards.

bust on mcnabb (2nd round pick, 4th round pick)
bust on jamall brown (3rd round pick)
trent williams sucks (4th overall pick)

Trent Williams does not suck. He's a 2nd year player who, in my opinon (and several cowboys fans opinons as well) held his own against the best pass rusher, if not defender, in the league in Demarcus Ware.

Add to that, it looks like:

Hit on Ryan Kerrigan
Hit on Kory Lichtensteiger
Hit on Roy Helu
Hit on Stephen Bowen
Hit on Adam Carriker
Hit on Barry Cofield
Hit on Perry Riley
Hit on Jarvis Jenkins
Hit on starting Will Montgomery at Center
Hit on not drafting Blane Gabbert

Sure Shanahan has made mistakes, but this team is much farther along with him...

[2cents]

Yeah....selective reasoning is pretty much the norm here. One miss....you suck. Ten hits...that's what you were supposed to do. Yikes people.

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

My stance all season long has been that Rex Grossman is a fine number-two quarterback and John Beck is a third-stringer. Unfortunately, that means the Redskins don't have a number one.

Question... Is there an out in John Beck's contract after this season?

I think Rex would make a good mentor to the rookie (whomever that may be) next season if he continues to play well with the marginal talent he has to work with now. Make no mistake, Rex is no world-beater but he is better than a say Kyle Orton for this system right now.

I took notice in how Rex gave the Dallas D-line a hard-count and then took a knee before handing the ball off to the Ref. That was being very alert and knowing what the situation was. Also, I think that if Rex loses a couple of pounds in the offseason, it may sustain his ability to move around in pocket much like we saw against Dallas.

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

I'm not arguing with you, but I heard something very interesting on a sportstalk show last week. They said people claim Elway didn't win a SB until Shanny got there. They said an argument could be made that Elway didn't win a SB 'til Terrel Davis arrived. Had me going "Hmmmm."

Yet it was Shanahan that drafted Terrel Davis, correct?

One can not be accounted for without giving credit to the other... what SportsTalk show were you referring to BTW?

[Destino]

Yeah....selective reasoning is pretty much the norm here. One miss....you suck. Ten hits...that's what you were supposed to do. Yikes people.
We have the haters and the fanboys on here that always have a one sided view of things. Just as the one miss haters want to fire everyone (like those crazy people that want to trade Orakpo) there are those that excuse every mistake. It's normal to read things like "he wanted to leave" and "no one could have seen that coming" every time a bad player is brought in.

Shanahan has many hits and misses.