Homer: When it comes to swagger, in Rex they trust

[themurf]

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7001/6422756453_b0c11a9a8e.jpg

(photo by Brian Murphy)

Look, I understand why Washington Redskins head coach Mike Shanahan felt obligated to switch from Rex Grossman to John Beck after his starting quarterback threw four interceptions in a single game.

When an offensively-challenged offense like Washington’s is that careless with the football, there’s zero chance of victory.

But my biggest issue with Shanahan’s decision was that it lasted more than just the fourth quarter against Philadelphia. Turning to Beck to close out one game was fine, but sticking with a guy who has as many NFL victories as I do … well … hindsight or not, that was a stupid decision.

Beck entered our lives and continued to play exactly as Beck has always played – mediocre or worse.

The Redskins offense went from bad to worse under Beck (scoring just 31 points in three games), and the season was effectively lost during that pitiful stretch of football.

Had Shanahan stuck with The Rex Cannon the week after his four-interception performance, I feel completely confident in saying this season would have played out very differently.

I’m not saying Washington would have been on a six-game winning streak rather than dropping six in a row. I just believe that Grossman has shown an ability throughout his career to bounce back from awful outings.

Let me put it this way – the whole Good Rex/Bad Rex conundrum only works if/when Grossman follows up a stink bomb with an above average performance.

Well, talk to any Chicago Bears fan and they’ll tell you that during his time there, Grossman was capable of throwing three touchdowns or three interceptions any given Sunday. It’s why he’s lasted in the league this long (and why he’s also so maddening, at times, to those who cheer for his teams).

The absolute best time to have him behind center would have been the week after the Eagles loss, when Grossman could have used some of the “Rexual healing” against Carolina.

But don’t take my word for it. Listen to those who have known and worked with him for years.

“Even when he does struggle, he comes out there with confidence and he doesn’t look in the past,” said offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan of Grossman. “He plays one play at a time and he’s a guy who you believe in for that reason. That’s why the guys follow him.”

And here’s what the elder Shanahan had to say this week about Sexy Rexy.

“Regardless, if you’re up or down, Rex is pretty consistent,” said Mike Shanahan. “He’s got a good attitude. He’s got a lot of belief in not only himself, but the supporting cast. He’s a leader out there.”

The ninth-year pro is generously listed as 6-foot-1 and 225 lbs., though I’d be surprised if he’s actually that tall. Anyone who has ever crossed paths with him off the field understands why tight end Fred Davis joked earlier this year that Grossman could probably stand to do some P90X – because the guy is anything but physically imposing.

And yet, he’s the player – more than anyone else on offense – that gives this team its identity. When he’s in a rhythm, everyone else feeds off of him.

“Out there on the field he’s calm and confident,” said receiver Anthony Armstrong. “He believes in the plays that are called and we have complete confidence that he’s going to make the throws. He’s not an elected captain on this team, but he’s still someone we look to lead us on offense.”

In the days leading up to the Miami game, Grossman split snaps with Beck during practice. Since then though, he’s regained the starting job and done everything possible to ensure Beck doesn’t go anywhere near the field again.

In his last two games, Grossman has completed 51 of 70 passes for 606 yards with four touchdowns and three interceptions. Any time a quarterback is completing nearly 73 percent of his passes and has a QB rating of 100.0, he’s doing something right.

Grossman was at his best this past Sunday when he sparked a comeback in Seattle even though the Redskins trailed by double digits in the fourth quarter of a game being played in one of the loudest venues the NFL has to offer.

Click here (http://www.homermcfanboy.com/2011/12/02/when-it-comes-to-swagger-in-rex-they-trust/) for the full article.

[2cents]

Murf, I love you but even Shanny has said there was no way Rex could have played the Panther or Bills game because of illness. He said he almost put him back in against the 49ers....as soon as Rex could physically play, he was back in.

[Skins Wingman]

its very frustrating having grossman as our qb.. i love to hate him, and hate to love him. how can someone be so good and so bad at the same time. if he can just limit his interceptions he could be a solid qb. but i dont think he ever will. this is who he is, but hes the best out there right now. he knows the system very well, and i think would be a good backup to a rookie qb next year.

[MLSKINS]

Murf, I love you but even Shanny has said there was no way Rex could have played the Panther or Bills game because of illness.
Rex got pneumonia after he got benched. So yes, we wouldn't have been able to play in those two games, but I don't think that Shanny benched him because he knew he was about to get sick....

[aussieskin]

i love the way the offense plays during the last quater or when we move the ball quickly, he passes short and often and defenses have trouble keeping up, i think our best drives have been the short sharp game plan i am not sure why but it seems to work

[sideshow24]

Swagger. Add that to the list of crutch words.

[Boss_Hogg]

Rex takes so much heat from the media and fans. Yet he never blames anyone but himself, he's a thick-skinned positive attitude QB - I like that.

[moondog]

I just can't help it. I actually like Rex as our quarterback. He does have that swagger and confidence about himself that I have not seen in a quarterback since I was old enough to know what's going on. His interceptions look bad at times, but via the eyeball test, if you watch him play, Rex is pretty damn good in this offense. Not average, not solid - he's damn good. He will never eliminate his turnover woes and there is nothing he can do about his height (his two biggest detriments) which is why we will need to find someone else to ultimately replace him, but I enjoy watching him play. He's the only quarterback I've seen us put out there that I am consistently excited to watch the next play because I expect positive yards and when he throws the ball downfield, I actually expect a completion. With everyone else we've trotted out there it's like, "I can't wait to see this wormburner/3 yard pass." With Rex, our offense moves and has a great tempo. Believe it or not, Rex is a threat to the defense. He just needs to get better at setting up the deep ball rather than throwing it just because it is there. But even then, the confidence he has both in himself to make the throw and in the receiver to make the play - I simply cannot condemn him for it.

[SWFLSkins]

Rex got pneumonia after he got benched. So yes, we wouldn't have been able to play in those two games, but I don't think that Shanny benched him because he knew he was about to get sick....

No the point is it delayed him returning to the field. I wanted to see what Beck had, well I saw it, I know why Shanny went back to Rex. Rex gave the team the best chance to win. Actually going out on a limb here(not really)if the OL were better Grossman could have had this team in the hunt for the NFCE sans the flu/bronchitis.

[MLSKINS]

No the point is it delayed him returning to the field. I wanted to see what Beck had, well I saw it, I know why Shanny went back to Rex. Rex gave the team the best chance to win. Actually going out on a limb here(not really)if the OL were better Grossman could have had this team in the hunt for the NFCE sans the flu/bronchitis.

I agree with that.

[themurf]

I wanted to see what Beck had ...

Look, I don't play the "I told you so" card very often, but if you had listen to people like me who saw Beck regularly during training camp, you would have known he's not any good at football. Do I know more than Mike Shanahan? Of course not. But did I see the guy struggle with routine throws to uncovered receivers throughout camp? Absolutely.

As far as Rex Grossman goes, he's a solid back-up quarterback on a team that doesn't have a starter. Next season, if we're lucky, he'll be backing up Robert Griffin III or another rookie and order will have been restored to the universe.

[ddub52]

Swagger. Add that to the list of crutch words.

Seriously. It needs to go. Not hating on the article, because it was a great read as always.

[Audible_Red40]

He does have a swagger and confidence.

I think he's a great fit for the offense. He does make dumb mistakes. I too believe that if he was not sick and the benching did not last more then the 4th quarter of the Iggles game, this team could very well be in the playoff hunt.

Love em or hate em, this offense runs pretty damn good with him in there. Draft a QB and bring back Rex for another year.

People will never make Rex feel uncomfortable about football or his playing ability.

[sideshow24]

Seriously. It needs to go. Not hating on the article, because it was a great read as always.

Yeah, Murph does a great job for sure.

[Bat~man]

I like his attitude and I like when he plays well, but, he's a bad QB.

I don't care if Rex would have helped us win 1-2 more games than Beck ..we still lost to Dallas and would still be a below .500 team IMO.

There is definitely more excitement when Rex plays, but not necessarily more victories.

[DM72]

I like his attitude and I like when he plays well, but, he's a bad QB.

I don't care if Rex would have helped us win 1-2 more games than Beck ..we still lost to Dallas and would still be a below .500 team IMO.

There is definitely more excitement when Rex plays, but not necessarily more victories.

Somebody who gets it.

[redskindomination]

I like Rex. I liked him starting this year and I still like him now. He by far gives us the best chance to win. It's a shame he turns the ball over so much, because if he could bring the TO's down, he would be a very good QB. I mean, you have to consider what he's working with on offense as well, with the recievers and o-line. These ARE contributing factors and with a better supporting cast, I'm sure his play would improve as well. I also think if he would've played every game this year, we could possibly be fighting for the division title down the stretch, (that and a better kicker).

Either way, I'm not saying he's the QB of the future for the skins, but I think we have at least found our "bridge guy" that Donovan was supposed to be until we draft a QB and he's ready to play.

[TheLongshot]

I don't know if he's a bad QB, but he's proven that he's not the guy you want starting 16 games for you. That's the reason why he was pulled in the first place. He just makes too many critical errors that you hope the other team doesn't take advantage of.

[themurf]

There is definitely more excitement when Rex plays, but not necessarily more victories.

John Beck has never won an NFL game. Never. Never ever. I repeat -- he has ZERO career wins.

In related news, Rex Grossman is 4-4 this season. That's a lot better than zero.

So while I am usually a fan of the Dark Knight, I'm going to have to side with The Rex Cannon and brush your misguided negativity away:


http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6114/6373727319_afb3aace1d.jpg

[Hooper]

I've always liked Rex. He does a lot of stupid stuff and gets knocked down for it, but he always gets back up and keeps fighting. Fans are always hypercritical of the QB on their team, then praise other QBs based on stats on highlights. Rex is better than a lot of the guys out there the fans say/said we should have brought in.

Rex has been pretty great the past 3 games. Even against Miami, he was making some big-time throws without the benefit of a running game or any skill player worth a damn.

I hope he keeps playing well and is back in some capacity next year. We'll probably never find out, but I do wonder what Rex would look like surrounded by great playmakers. He never had them here or in Chicago.

[blueskin]

I've flagellated myself to gain absolution for the sin of backing Beckgruber. Rex makes me want to slam a fifth of Jack, but Beck made me want to jump off a bridge.
Now, I wonder if it will be good to keep Rex, and let the young QB (whoever he is) develop for a period, or let both of these yahoos go and throw the rook in. I am now leaning towards keeping Rex and letting the new 'chise QB learn for 6-16 games.

[2cents]

No the point is it delayed him returning to the field. I wanted to see what Beck had, well I saw it, I know why Shanny went back to Rex. Rex gave the team the best chance to win. Actually going out on a limb here(not really)if the OL were better Grossman could have had this team in the hunt for the NFCE sans the flu/bronchitis.

And I still contend Rex was starting to get ill at the time of the Philly game. Not totally saying that's why he sucked that day, but I think it played a part.

[redskindomination]

I've flagellated myself to gain absolution for the sin of backing Beckgruber. Rex makes me want to slam a fifth of Jack, but Beck made me want to jump off a bridge.
Now, I wonder if it will be good to keep Rex, and let the young QB (whoever he is) develop for a period, or let both of these yahoos go and throw the rook in. I am now leaning towards keeping Rex and letting the new 'chise QB learn for 6-16 games.

Hell, if we add some pieces on offense next year and have the some of the young guys step it up, I'd like to see Rex cause a little bit of a QB contraversy next year between him and the new guy. A luxury we haven't had in some time. Here's to wishful thinking, haha.

[PerryMason]

I like his attitude and I like when he plays well, but, he's a bad QB.

I don't care if Rex would have helped us win 1-2 more games than Beck ..we still lost to Dallas and would still be a below .500 team IMO.

There is definitely more excitement when Rex plays, but not necessarily more victories.

5-6 or 6-5 right now with 1-2 more wins. Which puts us right in the mix for the division title or wild card.

[moondog]

Fans are always hypercritical of the QB on their team, then praise other QBs based on stats on highlights. Rex is better than a lot of the guys out there the fans say/said we should have brought in.

I'm beginning to realize this isn't just how fans, especially the ones on here, feel about QB's. This seems to be a pattern/trend that many people on Extremeskins apply to all of our players. Right now it seems Orakpo is the most popular victim line of thinking.

It is unfortunate that Grossman is not getting the opportunity to develop a rapport with Hankerson right now. I'm hoping Niles Paul comes back health this week or next and gets some reps in the passing game in addition to blocking.

[Rocky21]

Great story as usual Murph.

What really bothers me the most about the Shanahans is their inability to tell a good one from a bad one.

[CremeBrunell]

I like Rex. I liked him starting this year and I still like him now. He by far gives us the best chance to win. It's a shame he turns the ball over so much, because if he could bring the TO's down, he would be a very good QB. I mean, you have to consider what he's working with on offense as well, with the recievers and o-line. These ARE contributing factors and with a better supporting cast, I'm sure his play would improve as well. I also think if he would've played every game this year, we could possibly be fighting for the division title down the stretch, (that and a better kicker).

Either way, I'm not saying he's the QB of the future for the skins, but I think we have at least found our "bridge guy" that Donovan was supposed to be until we draft a QB and he's ready to play.

I hope he can be that guy too. I'm not doubt a Rex fan. I've seen something with him that I haven't seen for years with a Redskins QB... and exciting offense. Sure he turns the ball over and makes stupid plays, but he moves the ball pretty well too!

My question Murph is would you be against him starting next year while our rookie QB sits on the bench for a while? I know the Skins fanbase, or at least on this board, would be all about throwing a rookie right in to the lineup... but if our team is close right now would a full year of Grossman really be a terrible thing?

[Destino]

The only thing Rex Grossman does consistently is turn the ball over twice per game. Other than that you don't know if you are getting the Week 1, 11, 12 Rex or the Week 4, 6, 10 Rex. He is clearly better than John Beck but he is not a starting QB in the NFL.

[pjfootballer]

He has to remind alot of us old timers of Joe Theismann:

1) Not great, but can work within the system

2) Shorter and smaller than he is listed

3) Cocky, has a confidence about his abilities

4) Players love him and back him

5) Can throw 3 beautiful TD passes one week and then throw 3 god awful INTs the next

6) Leader

[moondog]

My question Murph is would you be against him starting next year while our rookie QB sits on the bench for a while? I know the Skins fanbase, or at least on this board, would be all about throwing a rookie right in to the lineup... but if our team is close right now would a full year of Grossman really be a terrible thing?

That's one thing that this fan base may need to wrap their head around. If Grossman hadn't missed three starts this year and we'd just split the Dallas games, we'd be in the hunt. We're not that far off despite the injuries and three games with Beck. I, for one, would not be against it. Some guys are ready and others are not. But I think a rookie could learn a lot from Grossman's thick-skin and knowledge of the offense before getting thrown out there.

---------- Post added December-2nd-2011 at 02:27 PM ----------


He has to remind alot of us old timers of Joe Theismann:

4) Players love him and back him

6) Leader

Personally, these two are HUGE to me. He is not the most gifted talent-wise or in height, but the guy is about everything else you look for in a leader. Players feed off him, both offensive and ultimately defensive guys when our offense is clicking. Santana's quotes, on top of everyone else's really seals the deal for how this team feels about him and it's the main reason I can't stop backing Grossman.

[Bat~man]

You guys can defend him as much as you want, but, Rex is the type of QB that would handcuff us. He would give us just enough wins to not get a good draft spot, he may make you want to keep giving him "another try".

You're also blind or completely ignorant to football if you think Rex is gonna take us to where we wanna go. You think every coach or anyone who knows football preaches about not turning the ball over because they're crazy?

Rex is 4-4 , he beat a crappy Seattle, Arizone and St. Louis team, a banged up Giants team that isn't as good as they normally are anyway, and you guys are seriously using that stat to defend him? I'll use this stat, 10 Tds and 14 INTs, not counting fumbles or the numerous passes that SHOULD have been INTs. Combine that with the fact that 3 of his 4 wins came against teams with barely any wins and it isn't hard to see. He is a good backup QB and nothing more.. just stop. In 8 games started, 6 of them he has thrown as many or more INTs than he has TDs, again not counting fumbles.

Don't get me wrong Murf, I love your stuff, but if you think my negativity is misguided when it comes to Rex and your gonna base it on being 4-4, then you're just being silly. If you're asking me would I take Rex over Beck, then yes.. but neither one of those guys are gonna take us anywhere...not even above .500.

[moondog]

You guys can defend him as much as you want, but, Rex is the type of QB that would handcuff us. He would give us just enough wins to not get a good draft spot, he may make you want to keep giving him "another try".

You're also blind or completely ignorant to football if you think Rex is gonna take us to where we wanna go. You think every coach or anyone who knows football preaches about not turning the ball over because they're crazy?

Rex is 4-4 , he beat a crappy Seattle, Arizone and St. Louis team, a banged up Giants team that isn't as good as they normally are anyway, and you guys are seriously using that stat to defend him? I'll use this stat, 10 Tds and 14 INTs, not counting fumbles or the numerous passes that SHOULD have been INTs. Combine that with the fact that 3 of his 4 wins came against teams with barely any wins and it isn't hard to see. He is a good backup QB and nothing more.. just stop.

You're missing the point. Almost every supporter of Rex openly admits he's not the long term answer and is not going to win a superbowl for us or anything of that nature. The point being made is that with THIS team, he has enough talent and support (both talent around him and trust from teammates) to keep us in the hunt for a division title over a 16 game season. Nothing more or less. We all agree that we need "THE" guy as soon as possible. But for now, Rex is fun to watch and difficult not to root for and he is certainly a guy I hope we re-sign because if we do get "THE" guy next offseason, Rex is the perfect quarterback to keep us in contention until the new guy is ready to play.

And for what it is worth, Seattle has won 3 of it's last 4, including Baltimore, Marshawn Lynch is an animal and their defense is pretty good. Lynch ran for over 100 yards and a score against Baltimore. That was when Ray Lewis was still playing. That simply does not happen very often.

[Skinsinparadise]

Rex has played well the last 2 games, I recall reading last weeks game statistically is close to his career best. I'd love it if that game is the template for Rex from now and forever, somehow I doubt it, but hope I am wrong. Rex is usually a 50-55% completiton guy, not a 70% plus guy like last week. He's usually has a low 70s QB rating or worse this year, not mid 90s like last week. If Rex is now a 70 plus completion guy, and Bradyish with an almost 100 Qb rating -- yeah anyone challenging Rex's prowess will look foolish. But I am not ready to jump on that train until we see some more of this.

And I get Murf is saying the same. But here is where I depart big time. Where this goes off track IMO is the part about the whole Shanny was dumb to bench Rex. Seems revisionist and IMO doesn't match the actual facts. By most accounts Rex played poorly THREE games in a row, not just the Philly game. His QB rating was what like 45 against the Rams? And unless the people who cover the Redskins were misled by the team, Rex couldn't have played 2 of the three games he was sitting out regardless because of his pneumonia. Rex was so sick he couldn't even sit on the sideline during the Carolina game, but we should believe he would have felt good enough to start the game? I have had pneumonia, it totally saps you. Its tough to walk around your house, never mind flinging a football around with defensive ends bearing down on you. The dude was in the hospital the week after. So we are talking did Shanny change the outlook of the season by sitting Rex against SF?

As to training camp, there are dissenting opinions. I recall reading Keim's reports during training camp who thought that BOTH Rex and Beck struggled with accuracy and were inconsistent during training camp and he thought neither one of them separated himself in the training camp portion -- doesn't mean Keim is right but I recall his point of view was different. Also, Keim among other people covering the team did want to see Beck and thought is was time to bench Rex when it happened. Yeah if Rex played like he did against Seattle in game after game, and had one rare bad game against the Eagles than I can see an outcry. But the reality was Rex led the league in interceptions and had the lowest QB rating in the league and was arguably regressing with each game.

I've been tough on Rex. But I think he's played great the last 2 weeks. And nope the Rex who was benched against the Eagles wasn't playing like he is right now. do I think the jury is out, nope. Be interesting to watch though.

Edit: by revisionist, am not saying Murf is being revisionist, I recall his article where he quoted Santana at the time -- but from my observation the local or national media at the time didn't question the move, most saying it was about time -- the context of the benching wasn't Rex's career day play against Seattle but MULTIPLE games of bad Rex in a row.

[Bat~man]

You're missing the point. Almost every supporter of Rex openly admits he's not the long term answer and is not going to win a superbowl for us or anything of that nature. The point being made is that with THIS team, he has enough talent and support (both talent around him and trust from teammates) to keep us in the hunt for a division title over a 16 game season.

No I'm not. I disagree. How does Rex keep us in the playoffs when he is 1-3 in the division? He is good at beating bad or banged up teams, he's a good backup..he certainly isn't keeping us in the mix.

Also, what talent are you speaking of on our offense? What player on offense do we have ranked in the top 5 or top 10 in the league? Our line is banged up or not any good, we have no WRs that scare anyone, our TE is inconsistent, our RBs don't scare anyone at all, our QB might make a few legendary plays each game, but he'll also give the other team several chances to make some of their own as well. We'll see how well he does the rest of the year.. I like the guy, but he isn't keeping us in anything lol

[skins island connection]

I thought this was another "capture this image".

Rex; damn, Monty, what in the hell did YOU have for lunch!

[BleedBNG]

Good or bad, it doesn't matter. After all, who else do we have? Beck? Like I said... who else do we have?

[Hooper]

No I'm not. I disagree. How does Rex keep us in the playoffs when he is 1-3 in the division? He is good at beating bad or banged up teams, he's a good backup..he certainly isn't keeping us in the mix.

Also, what talent are you speaking of on our offense? What player on offense do we have ranked in the top 5 or top 10 in the league? Our line is banged up or not any good, we have no WRs that scare anyone, our TE is inconsistent, our RBs don't scare anyone at all, our QB might make a few legendary plays each game, but he'll also give the other team several chances to make some of their own as well. We'll see how well he does the rest of the year.. I like the guy, but he isn't keeping us in anything lol

You're right. We don't have any skill players that scare anyone.

Like or hate Rex, he is not working with great weapons around him.

I thought he pretty much put the team on his back against Dallas. We had no running game and his number one receiver was Gaffney. And he was SHREDDING them. Disagree? Go look at a Cowboys message board during that game. A lot of "when did Rex become Brady" comments.

We have lots of needs on offense. A long-term answer at QB is definitely one. But if anyone thinks a rookie or FA QB would do better than Rex did this year, with the same level of talent around him, they are mistaken.

[Skinsinparadise]

we have lots of needs on offense. A long-term answer at QB is definitely one. But if anyone thinks a rookie QB would do better than Rex did this year, they are mistaken.

IMO it depends on what rookie and what version of Rex. The version against Seattle would be tough to beat. The version against the Cowboys the first time they played, the Rams game, and Philly -- yeah depending on the rookie we potentially could do better. Though just like seeing Hankerson and Helu and the young guys develop by gaining experience -- a young QB would likely benefit from experience too regardless if it sets us back temporarily.

[Bat~man]

You're right. We don't have any skill players that scare anyone.

Like or hate Rex, he is not working with great weapons around him.

I thought he pretty much put the team on his back against Dallas. We had no running game and his number one receiver was Gaffney. And he was SHREDDING them. Disagree? Go look at a Cowboys message board during that game. A lot of "when did Rex become Brady" comments.

We have lots of needs on offense. A long-term answer at QB is definitely one. But if anyone thinks a rookie or FA QB would do better than Rex did this year, with the same level of talent around him, they are mistaken.

Rex played well against Dallas. He also helped them with a bad INT and by thinking he was Vick and running in OT, losing a yard or 2 on an already long FG attempt, which we missed. (seriously dis-like gano)



Besides, look at what THIS board says about our team during games, it doesn't surprise me at all that Dallas fans were tripping.

I like Rex, I just highly disagree that we are going to stay in the mix with him. I didn't say anything about replacing him with anyone right now..our entire roster sucks at the QB position.

[Hooper]

IMO it depends on what rookie and what version of Rex. The version against Seattle would be tough to beat. The version against the Cowboys the first time they played, the Rams game, and Philly -- yeah depending on the rookie we potentially could do better. Though just like seeing Hankerson and Helu and the young guys develop by gaining experience -- a young QB would likely benefit from experience too regardless if it sets us back temporarily.

Don't get me wrong -- I have no problem with a rook staring next year. I just think people don't realize how little Rex had to work with at times this year. Same goes for Beck, a guy who probably wouldn't have done much in great conditions -- not wired right IMO -- but was doomed to fail in the ones he faced.

[Bat~man]

Don't get me wrong -- I have no problem with a rook staring next year. I just think people don't realize how little Rex had to work with at times this year. Same goes for Beck, a guy who probably wouldn't have done much in great conditions -- not wired right IMO -- but was doomed to fail in the ones he faced.

I do agree with you as far as little talent on offense.

BUT.. Rex is known for his bad INTs, and he has proven it this year over and over with INTs, bad INTs at that. If this team was full of talent.. I still think he would throw a lot of picks because he would be over confident in his WRs..,,but that's me speculating on that part.

I would love to have a rookie next year, and if our o-line and WR core isn't vastly improved..I would rather start Rex again for at least 6 games rather than get this rookie killed right off the bat.

[Hooper]

I do agree with you as far as little talent on offense.

BUT.. Rex is known for his bad INTs, and he has proven it this year over and over with INTs, bad INTs at that. If this team was full of talent.. I still think he would throw a lot of picks because he would be over confident in his WRs..,,but that's me speculating on that part.

I would love to have a rookie next year, and if our o-line and WR core isn't vastly improved..I would rather start Rex again for at least 6 games rather than get this rookie killed right off the bat.

Agree 100 percent.

[moondog]

No I'm not. I disagree. How does Rex keep us in the playoffs when he is 1-3 in the division? He is good at beating bad or banged up teams, he's a good backup..he certainly isn't keeping us in the mix.

Also, what talent are you speaking of on our offense? What player on offense do we have ranked in the top 5 or top 10 in the league? Our line is banged up or not any good, we have no WRs that scare anyone, our TE is inconsistent, our RBs don't scare anyone at all, our QB might make a few legendary plays each game, but he'll also give the other team several chances to make some of their own as well. We'll see how well he does the rest of the year.. I like the guy, but he isn't keeping us in anything lol

He was damn near perfect against the Giants. He had us ahead in both games against Dallas - the defense (specifically DHall) and Gano blew both of those games. You don't have to have top 10 talent in statistics. We have a much more balanced offense. Despite everything that has happened this year offensively, if Gaffney and Davis just continue their average games, both will be near to over 1,000 yards receiving. Moss needs 150 yards in 5 games to reach 500 yards this year. You do not need an Andre Johnson to win games. Davis and Gaffney have been consistent downfield threats all year (with Grossman at QB). I'm not talking 40 yarders, I mean in the 15-25 yard range which are great chunks of yards. Santana Moss has transitioned into a clutch, move the chains type of receiver. And Helu is averaging 150 yards from scrimmage in his two starts.

Those are the healthy guys. Bring back a healthy Hightower and Hankerson next year, along with an upgrade or two on the O-line and yes, this offense can be damn good with Grossman while a rookie gets up to speed.

Our defense is excellent and they will be getting a healthy Jarvis Jenkins back next year, along with whatever other offseason acquisitions we may make. They've had some poor plays this year (such as the Dallas games) but overall it is an excellent group.

Ultimately, our already excellent defense is going to get better, and our offense has balanced talent throughout (though no superstars) that is good enough to contend for the division given our defense, especially when you factor in 8 draft picks (whatever we choose to do with them) and another offseason.

Let me name several top 5 players in different categories to show that you don't NEED top 5 players to contend for the division (and again, I'm talking in terms of next year and ONLY contending for a division title on our way to becoming a team built to contend for deep playoffs and superbowl perhaps in 2013):

Passing Yards: Eli Manning & Philip Rivers (#'s 4 & 5)
Rushing Yards: LeSean McCoy, Maurice Jones-Drew (#'s 1 & 2 respectively) and Fred Jackson (#5)
Receiving Yards: Steve Smith (#2) & Victor Cruz (#4)
Sacks: Jared Allen (#2), Jason Babin (#3) & Jason Pierre-Paul (#5)
Interceptions: Eric Weddle (#4) & Brandon Browner (#5)

[Bat~man]

He was damn near perfect against the Giants. He had us ahead in both games against Dallas - the defense (specifically DHall) and Gano blew both of those games. You don't have to have top 10 talent in statistics. We have a much more balanced offense. Despite everything that has happened this year offensively, if Gaffney and Davis just continue their average games, both will be near to over 1,000 yards receiving. Moss needs 150 yards in 5 games to reach 500 yards this year. You do not need an Andre Johnson to win games. Davis and Gaffney have been consistent downfield threats all year (with Grossman at QB). I'm not talking 40 yarders, I mean in the 15-25 yard range which are great chunks of yards. Santana Moss has transitioned into a clutch, move the chains type of receiver. And Helu is averaging 150 yards from scrimmage in his two starts.

Those are the healthy guys. Bring back a healthy Hightower and Hankerson next year, along with an upgrade or two on the O-line and yes, this offense can be damn good with Grossman while a rookie gets up to speed.

Our defense is excellent and they will be getting a healthy Jarvis Jenkins back next year, along with whatever other offseason acquisitions we may make. They've had some poor plays this year (such as the Dallas games) but overall it is an excellent group.

Ultimately, our already excellent defense is going to get better, and our offense has balanced talent throughout (though no superstars) that is good enough to contend for the division given our defense, especially when you factor in 8 draft picks (whatever we choose to do with them) and another offseason.

Let me name several top 5 players in different categories to show that you don't NEED top 5 players to contend for the division (and again, I'm talking in terms of next year and ONLY contending for a division title on our way to becoming a team built to contend for deep playoffs and superbowl perhaps in 2013):

Passing Yards: Eli Manning & Philip Rivers (#'s 4 & 5)
Rushing Yards: LeSean McCoy, Maurice Jones-Drew (#'s 1 & 2 respectively) and Fred Jackson (#5)
Receiving Yards: Steve Smith (#2) & Victor Cruz (#4)
Sacks: Jared Allen (#2), Jason Babin (#3) & Jason Pierre-Paul (#5)
Interceptions: Eric Weddle (#4) & Brandon Browner (#5)

He was damn near perfect against the Giants, then he followed it up by having 6 turnovers the next 3 games. That's 2 a game...that's bad no matter how you slice it. He damn near gave the game back to the Rams.

The only reason why I asked about top 5 players is because you were talking about our "talent' on offense. What determines talent other than statistics? If we aren't top 5 anywhere in talent then we obviously have to compete because of our excellent scheme, not talent.

Besides, you listed several players in your top 5 that play for teams that already beat us...we did beat the Giants and that was our best win all year, and they aren't that good.

I'm really not sure what we are debating anymore tho. Some people think this years team with Rex will be in the playoff hunt, some people don't. I'm one that doesn't think so based on his divisional record and turnovers. He is still a good guy to have around as a backup or to fill in while a rookie QB gets ready.

[moondog]

He was damn near perfect against the Giants, then he followed it up by having 6 turnovers the next 3 games. That's 2 a game...that's bad no matter how you slice it. He damn near gave the game back to the Rams.

The only reason why I asked about top 5 players is because you were talking about our "talent' on offense. What determines talent other than statistics? If we aren't top 5 anywhere in talent then we obviously have to compete because of our excellent scheme, not talent.

Besides, you listed several players in your top 5 that play for teams that already beat us...we did beat the Giants and that was our best win all year, and they aren't that good.

I'm really not sure what we are debating anymore tho. Some people think this years team with Rex will be in the playoff hunt, some people don't. I'm one that doesn't think so based on his divisional record and turnovers. He is still a good guy to have around as a backup or to fill in while a rookie QB gets ready.

Ultimately, I think we both agree on Rex. You've said pretty much what I have in terms of he's not the long term solution but we'd both like to see us re-sign him and wouldn't mind seeing him play next year til whoever we acquire is ready. We simply disagree on where this team can get with him at QB.

The difference in terms of what we're looking at as offensive talent is I felt like you were looking at individual talent. My point is that you don't need a top 5 individual at WR or RB. The guys I listed are all top 5 in their respective categories yet they are on teams with poor records or in the Giants case they are plummeting fast. My point is that you do not need a top 5 individual talent. It can be done with above average talent across the board. Gaffney and Moss are solid receivers, Davis is a Pro-Bowl lock if our offense scored more (aka more TD's for him), and Helu is a dual-threat RB. Are any of these guys elite? Davis may be on his way, but the point is that our offense lacks superstars but is also solid across the board. Add Hightower and Hankerson back in the mix as well as some additions in the offseason to the O-line, bring Jarvis Jenkins back to the defense, and I think with that group Grossman can keep us in the mix for the division title over the course of next season, or at least until he was supplanted by a hopefully deserving rookie.

[Bat~man]

Ultimately, I think we both agree on Rex. You've said pretty much what I have in terms of he's not the long term solution but we'd both like to see us re-sign him and wouldn't mind seeing him play next year til whoever we acquire is ready. We simply disagree on where this team can get with him at QB.

The difference in terms of what we're looking at as offensive talent is I felt like you were looking at individual talent. My point is that you don't need a top 5 individual at WR or RB. The guys I listed are all top 5 in their respective categories yet they are on teams with poor records or in the Giants case they are plummeting fast. My point is that you do not need a top 5 individual talent. It can be done with above average talent across the board. Gaffney and Moss are solid receivers, Davis is a Pro-Bowl lock if our offense scored more (aka more TD's for him), and Helu is a dual-threat RB. Are any of these guys elite? Davis may be on his way, but the point is that our offense lacks superstars but is also solid across the board. Add Hightower and Hankerson back in the mix as well as some additions in the offseason to the O-line, bring Jarvis Jenkins back to the defense, and I think with that group Grossman can keep us in the mix for the division title over the course of next season, or at least until he was supplanted by a hopefully deserving rookie.

I do disagree about this team offensively. Hankerson looks very promising, I love that kid. Helu also looks promising..but we need more. The teams that are really competing have serious talent..I'm not sure what teams are doing it with average talent 'across the board".

You can be in the mix with solid talent and excellent QB play, but not really a threat. You don't need top 5 talent in every spot, you just need more talent than what we currently have...otherwise we would have more wins.

**Edit** Can I say the word talent any more than I did in this post? I apologize for being redundant.

[darrelgreenie]

We have lots of needs on offense. A long-term answer at QB is definitely one. But if anyone thinks a rookie or FA QB would do better than Rex did this year, with the same level of talent around him, they are mistaken.Why? You don't think a rookie or FA QB could perform better then 25th in total QBR or 28th DVOA? Both are stats/metrics that try to evaluate the QB apart from the team around them.

Because there are certainly FA and rookie QBs that are above 25th in QBR and 28th in DVOA.

[JerseyGator]

Newsflash: Redskins 3rd in QB hits behind Rams and Seahawks. Who will be the Redskins' starter at RB this week? I love how people say so and so is not the long-term answer on offense when long-term this season equates to a matter of weeks given all of the injuries and personnel decisions.

What does long-term mean? One month.

[Crazy Levi]

Enough with the "swagger" thing. I don't really understand what it means.

Unless "swagger" is code word for "underthrow into triple coverage."

[steve09ru]

What I found pretty interesting was that, with Rex (going back to last season), we average 21 points a game. He can put points up but he can also cost us points as we have seen.

If we can get a QB that can limit those mistakes, we are only a mistake away from 24+ ppg as an offense...we're really not that far off from where everyone seems to think we are offensively.

**forget to include that the 21 ppg is right in the middle of the pack NFL wise

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I think that Rex was the perfect fit for this season. We knew we weren't gonna be very good, but at least he's made it entertaining. Not only that, but he has carried himself like a Redskin the entire time. Kudos to the Cannon.

[moondog]

I do disagree about this team offensively. Hankerson looks very promising, I love that kid. Helu also looks promising..but we need more. The teams that are really competing have serious talent..I'm not sure what teams are doing it with average talent 'across the board".

You can be in the mix with solid talent and excellent QB play, but not really a threat. You don't need top 5 talent in every spot, you just need more talent than what we currently have...otherwise we would have more wins.

**Edit** Can I say the word talent any more than I did in this post? I apologize for being redundant.

Right, but you're simply confirming what I'm saying. I agree that we probably need a little more firepower on offense in terms of skill positions to go with a quarterback and some upgrades on the line. But you're probably not going to get all that in one more offseason. Do we want to just contend for a division title next year but not really be a deep play team? No, preferably we would be a superbowl contender. But that's probably not going to happen by next year. My point is simply that realistic expectations lead me to believe with the pieces we have right now, plus getting some guys back healthy, plus another solid draft/offseason (focusing on offense) we will be ready to seriously contend in this division next year.

By 2013, yes, we need to have a guy or two on offense (aside from quarterback) who is considered "elite." Maybe Davis or Hankerson will reach that level in another year or two. So I agree, in the long run we need more starpower on offense, but I'm looking at what we have right now on our roster and saying with a few minor additions and getting healthy, our defense is good enough to carry a mediocre offense to a division title. And the offense isn't that far behind.

[Crazy Levi]

I think that Rex was the perfect fit for this season. We knew we weren't gonna be very good, but at least he's made it entertaining. Not only that, but he has carried himself like a Redskin the entire time. Kudos to the Cannon.

I agree with that...I said that when he was benched. Beck is gonna suck...Rex might suck too but at least he's fun to watch.

This season would have had zero entertainment value if not for him.

[Skinsfan4life83]

I just don't agree that this team has no offensive talent. I think it has some great young potential in players like Helu, Hankerson and Davis. It's a shame Hank got injured. I also believe a better QB makes everyone else look better. Just look at Peyton.

But on topic Rex is entertaining if nothing else.

[DC_BearsFan]

Been a rex fan ever since 2005, when he was like a shot of adrenaline to the bears passing game. Give me a Rex win or lose but go all out kindof qb over kyle orton check down to death any day. Love the way he just shrugs off media crticism it seems like they want him to fail and be this big joke because he has a funny name but it never gets to him.

That being said, it can be tough being a fan of his because every time you think he's turned a corner he has a bad game and tbe haters come back in full force. This season is like deja veiw to the bears 2007 season (benched, returns plays awsome) hopefully doesnt end the same way (injured by Redskins)

[Hooper]

Why? You don't think a rookie or FA QB could perform better then 25th in total QBR or 28th DVOA? Both are stats/metrics that try to evaluate the QB apart from the team around them.

Because there are certainly FA and rookie QBs that are above 25th in QBR and 28th in DVOA.

I think a rookie QB would perform more like Beck did if he had the same team around him. I'm talking about when the Skins couldn't run the ball at all and had Jabar as their number one.

But hopefully we'll never have to see any Redskins QB in that situation again.

[darrelgreenie]

I think a rookie QB would perform more like Beck did if he had the same team around him. I'm talking about when the Skins couldn't run the ball at all and had Jabar as their number one.

But hopefully we'll never have to see any Redskins QB in that situation again.I agree.
And unlike Beck hopefully a rookie QB will be allowed to get to face some of the weaker defenses when the team is actually at full strength and be allowed to weather the storm after they face some of the tougher defenses without the benefit of balanced playcalling.

But, that convo is a shift in the topic which was whether a FA or rookie could play better then Rex.
And to play better Rex means the have to be slightly better then league worst. ;)

[Hooper]

No question Beck found himself in a tough situation, but pretty much all the negatives he showed here in practice, preseason, and in the regular season were the same he showed elsewhere. And at 30 years old and on his third team... well, he's never going to get the time from a team to see if he can improve. Suspect he'll be out of the league next year. Tough game, tough business.

[darrelgreenie]

No question Beck found himself in a tough situation, but pretty much all the negatives he showed here in practice, preseason, and in the regular season were the same he showed elsewhere. And at 30 years old and on his third team... well, he's never going to get the time from a team to see if he can improve. Suspect he'll be out of the league next year. Tough game, tough business.All that not withstanding you're using Beck to shift from my question which was:

Why do you think a rookie or FA QB wouldn't do better than Rex did this year, with the same level of talent around him?
And to better frame that question Rex is: 25th in total QBR or 28th DVOA both are metrics that aim to isolate QB play from the team.
There are rookies and FA QB that have out performed 25th in QBR and 28th in DVOA.

[The Fax]

I seriously hope he doesn't surge at the end of the year. I can't stand the thought of going into camp with him as our best option again.

[Hooper]

All that not withstanding you're using Beck to shift from my question which was:

Why do you think a rookie or FA QB wouldn't do better than Rex did this year, with the same level of talent around him?
And to better frame that question Rex is: 25th in total QBR or 28th DVOA both are metrics that aim to isolate QB play from the team.
There are rookies and FA QB that have out performed 25th in QBR and 28th in DVOA.

Hey, maybe you're right. Rex certainly has had some bad games this year, which no doubt effected his QBR and DVOA ratings.

He's also had some good games, with big plays at key moments.

He'll be back next year, either as a backup or a bridge. The Beck experiment is over and Shanny knows what he has in Rex, for better and worse.

[scruffylookin]

Again, as I pointed out in another thread, while I share most peoples desire for a long term solution at QB I don't understand the venom some fans here have for Rex.

Has he had poor games? A couple yes. But dating back to last year he has put up okay numbers and has a 5-6 record. This from a guy who was brought in last year to be a backup. A guy who cost us nothing in draft picks. A guy who has played on a 1 year contract both seasons with a modest salary. A guy who has never complained or caused drama. A guy who isn't a look at me douche like others. And a guy that clearly his teammates love.

Yet some here go into convolutions at even the idea that Rex return next year as a bridge or backup.

Bizarre

[sportjunkie07]

I do disagree about this team offensively. Hankerson looks very promising, I love that kid. Helu also looks promising..but we need more. The teams that are really competing have serious talent..I'm not sure what teams are doing it with average talent 'across the board".

You can be in the mix with solid talent and excellent QB play, but not really a threat. You don't need top 5 talent in every spot, you just need more talent than what we currently have...otherwise we would have more wins

**Edit** Can I say the word talent any more than I did in this post? I apologize for being redundant.

rex has shown enough for me to be happy with him as our transitional starter/backup for next year. same as this offseason, there just isnt anyone out there that will cost us nothing in draft picks and will be more comfortable and better able to run our system than rex.

i dont think people realize just how bad our offense is in terms of talent. just look at other teams... in terms of offenses, i cant watch a game without noticing how much faster, stronger, and more agile other teams are across the board. most teams have a couple of players that need to be gameplanned for... we have maybe fred davis.

having average talent "across the board" just isnt going to work in the nfl. the easiest way to fix that, is with great qb play, which we will be addressing in the draft.

and barring a great rookie year from said qb, it's going to take another season or two for us to have a good offense. things are already getting better, with the maturation of our youngsters and the addition of depth, but we still need another year or two of drafting before our offense will realistically be up to par.

[Skins3000]

Rex got pneumonia after he got benched. So yes, we wouldn't have been able to play in those two games, but I don't think that Shanny benched him because he knew he was about to get sick....

Rex was not on the sidelines at the Carolina game because Rex was so sick that Rex had to have an IV. He was checked into a Charlotte hospital after the game so that lead to some credence that Rex would not been able to play that Carolina game. Beck was not the problem in the Carolina game. The Skins did not scheme well on defense to slow down Cam Newton and Steve Smith.

---------- Post added December-3rd-2011 at 10:24 AM ----------


rex has shown enough for me to be happy with him as our transitional starter/backup for next year. same as this offseason, there just isnt anyone out there that will cost us nothing in draft picks and will be more comfortable and better able to run our system than rex.

i dont think people realize just how bad our offense is in terms of talent. just look at other teams... in terms of offenses, i cant watch a game without noticing how much faster, stronger, and more agile other teams are across the board. most teams have a couple of players that need to be gameplanned for... we have maybe fred davis.

having average talent "across the board" just isnt going to work in the nfl. the easiest way to fix that, is with great qb play, which we will be addressing in the draft.

and barring a great rookie year from said qb, it's going to take another season or two for us to have a good offense. things are already getting better, with the maturation of our youngsters and the addition of depth, but we still need another year or two of drafting before our offense will realistically be up to par.

This average talk sounds too much like excuses for not having an elite or franchise qb. I look at Chicago with a weak offensive line, a stud running back, franchise qb, but slightly average receivers and the Bears score points. I look at the Tampa Bay Bucs, while Josh Freeman has taken a step back this year, still a mediocre wr core, an ok line, with a hard runner in Blount. Bucs had alot of come back wins last year and scored points. Rivers in San Diego last year had no name receivers, a stud tight end, no running game, and a shaky offensive line, guess what San Diego scored points. Our team struggles because the Skins just do not A. have a franchise qb that knows the system and have been in the system for at least three years. B. Always trying to acquire instead of develop our own qb specifically for the Skins system, and C. Poor drafting when the Skins had an opportunity to draft a franchise qb ala Jason Campbell. I hope this front office take a qb in the top 10 when it comes time to draft. Enough, is enough already.

---------- Post added December-3rd-2011 at 10:25 AM ----------


rex has shown enough for me to be happy with him as our transitional starter/backup for next year. same as this offseason, there just isnt anyone out there that will cost us nothing in draft picks and will be more comfortable and better able to run our system than rex.

i dont think people realize just how bad our offense is in terms of talent. just look at other teams... in terms of offenses, i cant watch a game without noticing how much faster, stronger, and more agile other teams are across the board. most teams have a couple of players that need to be gameplanned for... we have maybe fred davis.

having average talent "across the board" just isnt going to work in the nfl. the easiest way to fix that, is with great qb play, which we will be addressing in the draft.

and barring a great rookie year from said qb, it's going to take another season or two for us to have a good offense. things are already getting better, with the maturation of our youngsters and the addition of depth, but we still need another year or two of drafting before our offense will realistically be up to par.

This average talk sounds too much like excuses for not having an elite or franchise qb. I look at Chicago with a weak offensive line, a stud running back, franchise qb, but slightly average receivers and the Bears score points. I look at the Tampa Bay Bucs, while Josh Freeman has taken a step back this year, still a mediocre wr core, an ok line, with a hard runner in Blount. Bucs had alot of come back wins last year and scored points. Rivers in San Diego last year had no name receivers, a stud tight end, no running game, and a shaky offensive line, guess what San Diego scored points. Our team struggles because the Skins just do not A. have a franchise qb that knows the system and have been in the system for at least three years. B. Always trying to acquire instead of develop our own qb specifically for the Skins system, and C. Poor drafting when the Skins had an opportunity to draft a franchise qb ala Jason Campbell. I hope this front office take a qb in the top 10 when it comes time to draft. Enough, is enough already.

---------- Post added December-3rd-2011 at 10:26 AM ----------


rex has shown enough for me to be happy with him as our transitional starter/backup for next year. same as this offseason, there just isnt anyone out there that will cost us nothing in draft picks and will be more comfortable and better able to run our system than rex.

i dont think people realize just how bad our offense is in terms of talent. just look at other teams... in terms of offenses, i cant watch a game without noticing how much faster, stronger, and more agile other teams are across the board. most teams have a couple of players that need to be gameplanned for... we have maybe fred davis.

having average talent "across the board" just isnt going to work in the nfl. the easiest way to fix that, is with great qb play, which we will be addressing in the draft.

and barring a great rookie year from said qb, it's going to take another season or two for us to have a good offense. things are already getting better, with the maturation of our youngsters and the addition of depth, but we still need another year or two of drafting before our offense will realistically be up to par.

This average talk sounds too much like excuses for not having an elite or franchise qb. I look at Chicago with a weak offensive line, a stud running back, franchise qb, but slightly average receivers and the Bears score points. I look at the Tampa Bay Bucs, while Josh Freeman has taken a step back this year, still a mediocre wr core, an ok line, with a hard runner in Blount. Bucs had alot of come back wins last year and scored points. Rivers in San Diego last year had no name receivers, a stud tight end, no running game, and a shaky offensive line, guess what San Diego scored points. Our team struggles because the Skins just do not A. have a franchise qb that knows the system and have been in the system for at least three years. B. Always trying to acquire instead of develop our own qb specifically for the Skins system, and C. Poor drafting when the Skins had an opportunity to draft a franchise qb ala Jason Campbell. I hope this front office take a qb in the top 10 when it comes time to draft. Enough, is enough already.

[wildbill1952]

In hindsight, the Beck move was bad. He played terribly. Yes, the OL is bad and the entire first string of WR's was gone, but even with those missing pieces, Beck played poorly. The first game I'll give it to first game starter jitters, but he just didn't show any real bright spots in the games after.

Grossman is inferior to the majority of the QB's in the league including the much maligned Jason Campbell who, prior to his injury, turned out to be a serviceable QB when given fair protection and receivers who create separation. Grossman is better than McNabb who was a waste of draft picks here as well as comfort for the enemy by giving them those same draft picks, but in reality, he's just one more bad QB decision in a long line of bad QB decisions by Washington management.

The best thing to come out of the Grossman/Beck/McNabb/Campbell/Brunell/Campbell/Brunell/Ramsey fiascos? The end result is that everything has aligned to put the Skins in position for next year's draft where the teams that are competing in the the lower part of the draft are not all looking for QB's, where team management appears to be finally in agreement the Rex/Beck Wreck at QB was a dismal failure and where there are 4 available college QB's, any of whom are serious upgrades to the present QB's or any of the QB's for the past decade. It comes in a year where the Skins have all of their draft picks plus a couple of extra, the year after they took all the best eggs and put them in the defensive basket in the draft, where, after picking a QB in the first round next year, will have ample picks to put some decent OL talent around him in the second, third and fourth rounds, building a starting corps of OL that will be both starters and depth for years. It comes in a year where the Skins have found a good WR in Hankerson, where he'll return from his injury with a year under his belt, where the Skins also have Armstrong for speed and where they finally have enough talent they can put Moss in the slot, where he'll rule for a season or two.

When you couple that with the other guys who will be returning form injury I think the Skins have a bright future, even with a dim present. It may not happen immediately next year, but I see a much better team coming in the future.

The glass is almost empty right now, admittedly. But next year, I don't see a glass half empty, I see it 4/5ths full. JMHO.

[moondog]

Grossman is inferior to the majority of the QB's in the league including the much maligned Jason Campbell who, prior to his injury, turned out to be a serviceable QB when given fair protection and receivers who create separation.

See, this is the problem with so many guys on this board. I'm not trying to pick on you, just using it as an example, but SO many posters here look at our players and focus on their weaknesses and talk about how everyone else at their position around the league is better. Jason Campbell is no different in Oakland than he was here, yet he has vaulted in the opinion of some Skins fans because they no longer see him play, now they just see the stats and that he was winning. He's always been a decent QB, doesn't turn the ball over too often, and can find some receivers with good protection. But he's just that, average, and most of the time will check the ball down just like he did here. The difference is he was checking it down to Darren McFadden.

Campbell has not really improved since leaving, but most here seem to see him in a different light now. It's not a bash against Campbell, I always liked him and still root for him. But Grossman is much more fun to watch and for that reason until we find "our" guy, I'd rather have him. But it's a perfect example of how many posters/fans overvalue guys that play elsewhere because they don't actually see every play of every game like they do with the Skins, and undervalue or nitpick our players.

This is incredibly frustrating.

[WSHRedskins3ATLBraves3]

See, this is the problem with so many guys on this board. I'm not trying to pick on you, just using it as an example, but SO many posters here look at our players and focus on their weaknesses and talk about how everyone else at their position around the league is better. Jason Campbell is no different in Oakland than he was here, yet he has vaulted in the opinion of some Skins fans because they no longer see him play, now they just see the stats and that he was winning. He's always been a decent QB, doesn't turn the ball over too often, and can find some receivers with good protection. But he's just that, average, and most of the time will check the ball down just like he did here. The difference is he was checking it down to Darren McFadden.

Campbell has not really improved since leaving, but most here seem to see him in a different light now. It's not a bash against Campbell, I always liked him and still root for him. But Grossman is much more fun to watch and for that reason until we find "our" guy, I'd rather have him. But it's a perfect example of how many posters/fans overvalue guys that play elsewhere because they don't actually see every play of every game like they do with the Skins, and undervalue or nitpick our players.

This is incredibly frustrating.

You are absolutely right about our fans overvaluing other players. Jason Campbell is the same player he was when he was here.

[Hooper]

You are absolutely right about our fans overvaluing other players. Jason Campbell is the same player he was when he was here.

If we had Oakland's skill players, I suspect our offense would be very good.

[moondog]

If we had Oakland's skill players, I suspect our offense would be very good.

I would definitely agree at least at RB. Darren McFadden is an incredible talent. Unfortunately, both for fans of Oakland and football in general, he spends about as much time rehabbing injuries as he does on the field. Watching McFadden is entertaining and exciting no matter who you're rooting for (unless he's playing you) but he's about as fragile as Shawn Springs was. I would take him and Bush (not sure he fits our system). Their receivers have some serious speed but are also oft-injured and I think a little overrated. Other than their RB's I think their TE and WR aren't that much of an upgrade over ours at all when everyone is healthy. What makes that team go is their physicality and power on the offensive line complemented by some great running backs. And their defense is good enough to limit other teams enough so their running game can chew up clock and yardage and score enough to win. And on a team like that, it helps dramatically that they have the best kicker and the best punter in the game. They will almost always win the field position battle and Janikowski will straight up win them games (as he did last week with 6 field goals).

[darrelgreenie]

I would definitely agree at least at RB. Darren McFadden is an incredible talent. Unfortunately, both for fans of Oakland and football in general, he spends about as much time rehabbing injuries as he does on the field. Watching McFadden is entertaining and exciting no matter who you're rooting for (unless he's playing you) but he's about as fragile as Shawn Springs was. I would take him and Bush (not sure he fits our system). Their receivers have some serious speed but are also oft-injured and I think a little overrated. Other than their RB's I think their TE and WR aren't that much of an upgrade over ours at all when everyone is healthy. What makes that team go is their physicality and power on the offensive line complemented by some great running backs. And their defense is good enough to limit other teams enough so their running game can chew up clock and yardage and score enough to win. And on a team like that, it helps dramatically that they have the best kicker and the best punter in the game. They will almost always win the field position battle and Janikowski will straight up win them games (as he did last week with 6 field goals).I agree about the talent level, Moss and Davis would easily be the best receivers on their team.
I think you've got to give credit to their offensive staff.
They choose the philosophy/scheme and it get the most out of their talent.
Even if you look at their OL wasn't that much better then ours last year, they almost gave up as many sacks in fewer attempts/dropbacks.
But their scheme and execution on offense has helped cut down on sacks and has produced an offense that is much better coordinated then our own.
And for a large part of the season they were doing it with a QB that we casted off.

---------- Post added December-3rd-2011 at 05:15 PM ----------


Jason Campbell is no different in Oakland than he was here, yet he has vaulted in the opinion of some Skins fans because they no longer see him play, now they just see the stats and that he was winning. He's always been a decent QB, doesn't turn the ball over too often, and can find some receivers with good protection. But he's just that, average, and most of the time will check the ball down just like he did here. The difference is he was checking it down to Darren McFadden.

Campbell has not really improved since leaving, but most here seem to see him in a different light now. It's not a bash against Campbell, I always liked him and still root for him.I agree that Campbell is the same player, a decent QB that hasn't reached his potential.

I still say that Campbell last year in Washington was the best year of his career and a remarkable year when you think about how little talent that team had on the OL and RB and HC/OC.

[HailGreen28]

I think except for the bootleg options, (which may be more a feature of Shanny Sr. than Shanny Jr. anyways? :whoknows: ), Rex at least shows how the offense should be run. I don't think Beck was making the right reads.

[RedskinsWarpath]

Stay with REX everyone is so hard on him when everything is agianst him he may not be the greatest but he is the greatest in what they have.Plus there is no O-LINE to protect him they need a LEFT GUARD, CENTER, RIGHT GUARD, And maybe a RIGHT TACKLE the LINE has also hurt the RUNNING GAME. They need some WR'S for god sake MOSS is the still the number one WR when at Best a number two or A SLOT would be best give REX some help!! They have good TE'S with Cooley, Davis and Paulsen, I believe a healty Cooley still has some years left!! Hankerson has to please not be another Bu
st AT WR they need this guy to become an elite WR' the drafting has to get better in WASHINGTON PERIOD!!

---------- Post added December-3rd-2011 at 05:57 PM ----------

They Need a Number one and two WR with Moss playing slot like a Greg Jenning or a Calvin Johnson Big WR'S with big play making capibilities. Get a young QB let him ride the bench for a year or two behind Rex and Beck and build an O-LINE and get some WR'S

[Cpt.Chaos47]

I've always liked Rex. I think some of his INTs comes from being short. In the Rams game he flat couldn't see Laurinitis because the line was in his way. It seems like just about every pick he throws is to the middle of the field where he has to see over the line. I know thats not the only problem he just throws dumb balls sometimes, but I think its a contributing factor. I also think if he hit the gym it would help him out alot. He was flat out porky at the start of the season. It would help with mobility and arm strength

[Santana_89]

Great article Murf:)

I like Rex's leadership and how the team rallies around him. When was the last time we had that '05 Brunell?? Yes I am on pins ans needles when he's out there but he's far more entertaining to watch than our last 3 qb's. He's a good dude and for that I will continue to support him.

[Hooper]

I agree about the talent level, Moss and Davis would easily be the best receivers on their team.

Disagree.

Moss would be the most consistent maybe.

But Oakland has explosive young talent at WR. Lots of it. We have a nice young TE and not one WR who scares anyone downfield. Please don't say Armstrong.

[Jumbo]

Disagree.

Moss would be the most consistent maybe.

But Oakland has explosive young talent at WR. Lots of it. We have a nice young TE and not one WR who scares anyone downfield. Please don't say Armstrong.

Hoop...check your PMs :)

[CM916]

I can't remember any of our last half dozen QBs ever converting a 3rd and 22, let alone doing it for the game winning TD. I made jokes when we first signed him last year and even more heading into his first start but I've been 100% behind Rex since I first saw him actually play for us. He's going to throw stupid picks sure but he's also going to make some amazing plays that we really haven't seen from anyone else. I'd stick with him until we can find a worthwhile rookie and get them ready to play.

[darrelgreenie]

Disagree.

Moss would be the most consistent maybe.

But Oakland has explosive young talent at WR. Lots of it. We have a nice young TE and not one WR who scares anyone downfield. Please don't say Armstrong.

It takes more then being a downfield threat to make a good receiver.
And even if that is your criteria, as much as you might not like it, Anthony Armstrong when healthy and paired with a QB with a good deep ball is one of the best deep threats in the NFL and the stats bear this out:
2010 44 catches 871 good for 19.4 YPC which is behind only Mike Wallace and DeSeana Jackson.
Last year Moss, Armstrong and Gaffney were top 30 in yards none of Oaklands receivers were top 30.

This year, right now Gaffney is just outside top 30 in catches ahead of any Oakland receiver as is Fred Davis who is also 25th in yards.
And if Tana was healthy he would be undoubtedly be higher then Gaffney is catches and yards.

Oakland has a young receiving corps but I don't see how that makes them better i.e. more productive then ours.

[moondog]

I agree about the talent level, Moss and Davis would easily be the best receivers on their team.
I think you've got to give credit to their offensive staff.
They choose the philosophy/scheme and it get the most out of their talent.
Even if you look at their OL wasn't that much better then ours last year, they almost gave up as many sacks in fewer attempts/dropbacks.
But their scheme and execution on offense has helped cut down on sacks and has produced an offense that is much better coordinated then our own.
And for a large part of the season they were doing it with a QB that we casted off.

---------- Post added December-3rd-2011 at 05:15 PM ----------

I agree that Campbell is the same player, a decent QB that hasn't reached his potential.

I still say that Campbell last year in Washington was the best year of his career and a remarkable year when you think about how little talent that team had on the OL and RB and HC/OC.

Of course. Campbell got better every year he was here. His yards per attempt went up every year he was here and he protected the football. I feel bad that Oakland abandoned him when he got hurt and turned to Carson Palmer but it seems to be working out for them. I wonder where he'll end up next but it's been the story of his career - new coordinators/coaches every year and teams abandoning him. He's an extremely classy guy and an average quarterback that's got heart and leads by example, I hope he finds some success and redemption somewhere as long as it's not against us.

[Skinsinparadise]

What was Shanny thinking when he benched Rex when he did? Well, IMO some of our memories are short, per my post on this thread, Rex played three games in a row as bad as he played today -- then he was sat down. It wasn't just a bad game against the Eagles and the rest was fine.

The Seattle game if I recall was his 2nd best game in his whole CAREER statistically or close to that -- it wasn't a typical Rex, game, but an atypical one. The best I'll say about Rex is he's streaky and when he is good, he's good, and I am not shy to say so, I thought he played very well against Seattle. But he's ranked statistically around the bottom of the NFL because on the aggregate on balance IMO he's more inclined to play poorly than he is to play well. The typical Rex game is somewhere around 50-55% completion rate and a low 70 QB rating -- and heck yeah a rookie Qb like a Christian Ponder or Dalton type i think can come in during their rookie season and play better.

Aside from Rex, don't get why they stopped using Helu much. and Santana so so game, two bad drops.

[skins island connection]

Please tell me Rex will not be here next season.
Not even as a back-up or PS player; makes a handful of good plays and a truckload of bone headed plays; I wanna smack that ****ed up smart-ass smirk right off his face; he looks as if he could care less, as him and Kyle jerk each other on the sideline. Send Kyle packing too; Mike, you're NOT gonna win with him as OC...

[Dirt]

Rex is capable of swagger, and equally as capable of suck. I don't know why folks are surprised when he has a bad game. Then continue to be surprised when he has a good one.

See, he's set up to have an awesome day next week and beat the Pats ;)

Honestly I can only take 4 more games of the Rexcoaster. I'm done. Makes you so happy then so sad. Can't do it. Nerves can't take it. Start the rookie.

[SkinsGuy]

19/46 for 221 yards and 1 INT

Not a good day.

[Destino]

Tim Tebow now has as many passing TDs as Rex (10) this season.

---------- Post added December-4th-2011 at 04:48 PM ----------


19/46 for 221 yards and 1 INT

Not a good day.

second lowest QB Rating of the season for him. 47.5

[RandyHolt]

he must be one of the worst getting rid of the ball to avoid a sack.

Shagger err swagger... doesnt matter, its still more than Beck has.

[Jumbo]

Rex is as up and down as the board.

[Crazy Levi]

Rex wasn't great but the play-calling killed him. Rex isn't good enough to win with if the Defense knows he's throwing every down.

Baffling why they gave up on the run in the 2nd quarter.

[Skinsinparadise]

Rex is capable of swagger, and equally as capable of suck. I don't know why folks are surprised when he has a bad game. Then continue to be surprised when he has a good one.

See, he's set up to have an awesome day next week and beat the Pats ;)

Honestly I can only take 4 more games of the Rexcoaster. I'm done. Makes you so happy then so sad. Can't do it. Nerves can't take it. Start the rookie.

Agree. He's a feast or famine QB. And IMO more famine then feast and the stats show that.

---------- Post added December-4th-2011 at 06:21 PM ----------


Rex wasn't great but the play-calling killed him. Rex isn't good enough to win with if the Defense knows he's throwing every down.

Baffling why they gave up on the run in the 2nd quarter.

Yeah i was actually OK with Kyle for a long time but am starting to buy into the idea that he's Andy Reid Jr, not Mike Shanahan Jr. Pass, pass pass. He game plans often like we got Tom Brady under center.

[Phixius]

Of course. Campbell got better every year he was here. His yards per attempt went up every year he was here and he protected the football. I feel bad that Oakland abandoned him when he got hurt and turned to Carson Palmer but it seems to be working out for them. I wonder where he'll end up next but it's been the story of his career - new coordinators/coaches every year and teams abandoning him. He's an extremely classy guy and an average quarterback that's got heart and leads by example, I hope he finds some success and redemption somewhere as long as it's not against us.abandoned him? He broke his collarbone and wasn't returning for the season.

[GaryGreenMonk]

Even when hes "on", he's generally just good enough to pull out a win..

its not like we crush people when he's playing well.

[TD Riggo]

Rex wasn't great but the play-calling killed him. Rex isn't good enough to win with if the Defense knows he's throwing every down.

Baffling why they gave up on the run in the 2nd quarter.


The play calling today, with the exception of the opening drive, absolutely sucked! KYLE!

Rex was the combination of good Rex, and evil Rex today. He obviously wasn't as sharp as last week. But when your O.C. calls THREE PASS PLAYS ON THE FIVE YARD LINE in a row, and you can't score a T.D? Well .. that's squarely on the play caller! Especially when you had success earlier with #29 and then you all but bench him!

Kyle is like a kid with A.D.D. and a bucketload of candy! I swear .. his daddy needs to sit his ass down and tell him to stop the **** or he's demoted to waterboy!

[Kelvin Bryant]

Tim Tebow now has as many passing TDs as Rex (10) this season.


Let's make Rex run the ball more, so's we can emulate Denver's success.

[moondog]

abandoned him? He broke his collarbone and wasn't returning for the season.

Campbell is actually throwing again and will be healthy enough to play in another week, maybe two. But given when he was hurt, yes, his season was pretty much over and the Raiders needed to get somebody. But given that the Raiders seem to have started to turn the corner and he's had more success their than any QB they've had in quite some time, both he and Oakland had started to feel like he was the guy. Two days after he gets hurt they gave up A TON to get Carson Palmer, basically signifying that no matter how well/poorly Carson played, they were done with Campbell. Definition of insult to injury.

Considering their record, I understand wanting to go out and get the best thing available. But I'm talking about abandoning him long term as well as short term because I'm sure before being injured, Campbell was feeling pretty good about re-signing in Oakland and settling in there.

[mi6]

Rex is "Gross" man! Enough said!!

[darrelgreenie]

Let's make Rex run the ball more, so's we can emulate Denver's success.You're actually right.
But to emulate Denver's plan with our personnelle we need to let our running backs run the ball more, a lot more.

---------- Post added December-5th-2011 at 11:55 AM ----------


Campbell is actually throwing again and will be healthy enough to play in another week, maybe two. But given when he was hurt, yes, his season was pretty much over and the Raiders needed to get somebody. But given that the Raiders seem to have started to turn the corner and he's had more success their than any QB they've had in quite some time, both he and Oakland had started to feel like he was the guy. Two days after he gets hurt they gave up A TON to get Carson Palmer, basically signifying that no matter how well/poorly Carson played, they were done with Campbell. Definition of insult to injury.

Considering their record, I understand wanting to go out and get the best thing available. But I'm talking about abandoning him long term as well as short term because I'm sure before being injured, Campbell was feeling pretty good about re-signing in Oakland and settling in there.When you have Kyle Boller as the back-up QB and you think your starter is done for the season, I understand how the Raiders may have had a 'panic' moment.
The compensation they gave up was insane.

If Campbell is actually gonna be healthy this year and being that Martz is a Coryell guy and Campbell is familiar with Coryell..........shot in the dark I know

[Skinzaddict1983]

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6114/6373727319_afb3aace1d.jpg


:ols: Rex has the swagger here.... "Get out of my way, I'mma bout to smack the **** out of somebody!!!! lemme get my pimp hand ready" :ols:

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

Rex is horrible and shot, he absolutly has no pocket awareness, and his accuracy is brutal, for every good pass there is an equally bad one, he spends more time looking for someone to hit him than someone to throw to downfield, I thought Shanny should have yanked him for Beck in the 4th, not because Beck is any better I still wonder what he's looking at downfield but because he does add the mobility factor in which the defense may not be prepaired for at that point in the game, I also think both Beck and Gross may be better when they have had time on the bench to forget how bad they are.

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

Rex is horrible and shot, he absolutly has no pocket awareness, and his accuracy is brutal, for every good pass there is an equally bad one, he spends more time looking for someone to hit him than someone to throw to downfield, I thought Shanny should have yanked him for Beck in the 4th, not because Beck is any better I still wonder what he's looking at downfield but because he does add the mobility factor in which the defense may not be prepaired for at that point in the game, I also think both Beck and Gross may be better when they have had time on the bench to forget how bad they are.


Don't be surprised if no one shares your sentiments on this one.

[DM72]

Don't be surprised if no one shares your sentiments on this one.

I share his sentiments on Rex. Dude is horrible.

[JerseyGator]

Streaky QB ... always has been. Thought he would do better yesterday but maybe Rex Ryan made some adjustments for the Skins after his brother faced them twice. Strange that Gaffney wasn't more involved.

[railcon56]

Mention the name Rex Grossman to a fan of any other team except the Redskins. And they just shake their heads and laugh! Grossman is Grossman he is way too streaky to rely on. One good game and then 4 bad onse he sux plain and simple.

[JerseyGator]

It's hard to be consistent when your team can't even field consistent support. Moss out, OL out, Williams and Davis suspended for the rest of the year, Cooley out, Hightower out.

As bad as this is, it was even worse with the Bears when he was benched after 3 games in 2007. Even his QB coach was suspended the following year for drugs during that season. Not to mention having the oldest OL in the league and the worst rushing game with the wonderful Cedric Benson (is he still in jail?).

Rex needs to write a book.

[skins island connection]

As bad as this is, it was even worse with the Bears when he was benched after 3 games in 2007. Even his QB coach was suspended the following year for drugs during that season. Not to mention having the oldest OL in the league and the worst rushing game with the wonderful Cedric Benson (is he still in jail?).

Rex needs to write a book.[/QUOTE]

Ehhh, he'd "fumble" around with the idea, but then "pass" it off to someone else; but then again, he may just hit the "sack" and dream he was an NFL caliber QB...:)

[Redskins4ever]

Is Jonathan Crompton good enough yet to be promoted to the active roster? I can't bare watching Rex Grossman playing QB for the Redskins a second longer and Beck is 0-7 as a starter and would be 0-8 if he started another game. I saw video clips of Crompton play in college and he looked good. It's unknown just how much of the offense Crompton knows, or how much Kyle Shanahan has been working with Crompton in practice. At this point in the season with four games remaining, what bad would it be to see what Crompton can do in a regular season NFL game?

[skinsmarydu]

I love Rex and I love his swagger. I believe play-calling has a LOT to do with our failure at this point in the season, but injuries and stupid failed drug tests haven't helped any. Love your post and photos as usual, murf.

[veteranskinsfan]

I concur with the fan who says the "dude is horrible". There is a reason that Chicago let him go.
We do have holes all over this team so even if we had a better quarterback right now it still would not
get us to the playoffs this year. I read that Sonny said Rex will be back next year. So those fans who
still believe in Rex should be happy.