Suspension Aside...Is Trent Williams Bordering "Disappointment"?

[poultry_geist66]

Now bear with me here for a sec...(suspension aside for now, as I decided I felt this way after the 2nd Cowboys game this season).

I love our Skins...especially a lot of the players on this roster. So I'm hoping some of you can change my mind.

Trent Williams, so far, has been a disappointment to me.

I've been a huge Trent Williams Apologist since he was drafted. But, it's starting to get old. I really wanted to see him succeed more than anyone I know.

Being a former offensive lineman, I naturally tend to watch the line play. There's several things I've noticed.

1) Inconsistency in the running game (C+): Some games he looks great. I'll give him props on those. But, it seems about 2 of every 5 games (so not necessarily half the games), he's just lost out there. He's blocking like Cooley did when Cooley was coming back from the knee injury (anyone that knows what I'm referring to knows exactly what I mean). Especially when he's meant to make a block at the 2nd level.

2) Right Tackle worthy pass blocking (C): I notice when Trent has a decent pass blocking game, that a lot of praise is sent his way. He's flat out getting beat a lot more than a player of his potential should. The elite pass rushers have great games against him. The hurries are ridiculous. He seems to do decent against the average DE/OLBs. Some light at the end of the tunnel.

3) Mental Mistakes (D): Maybe it's because the timing of his penalties always seem to be at the worst time. But, this guy has killed his fair share of drives. Watch the top 10 LTs in the game...this does not happen. There has only been one player on the team more frustrating with his mental mistakes...LaRon Landry.

4) Are you injured, or hurt? (F): This was the knock on him coming into his draft. Fragile. He has done nothing but earn that distinction. As I watched him on the ground in the Cowboys game, screaming like he just got gutted, I felt like I had finally seen enough. I remember thinking, "Who is that? Trent Williams? Poor baby. Must be a hangnail."

I am by no means calling him a complete bust. Not saying we have another Tony Mandarich here. Still giving him some time to prove himself. But, my patience is getting very thin here.

Now...Suspension back on the table...I don't even know what to say. I want to hear/see more facts, but this doesn't help things. Maybe if he'd stop worrying about what BLING he's going to get the next week, he might perform better.

Trent "Silverback" Williams?

More like Trent "Koala" WIlliams.

Hope he steps up next season and proves me wrong.

[ConnSKINS26]

No! Outside of the injuries and this suspension, absolutely not. He's been great this year once he got going, and is perhaps the biggest physical freak amongst a group of elite physical talents at the LT position in the NFL. Obviously that doesn't automatically transfer to production, as he needs to keep mastering the subtle technique of the position. But he's got the talent and the mean streak. He just needs the consistency, and health.

Anyone who has found Trent disappointing, except for maybe his stupid fouls here and there, can't evaluate OL play at all. That's my opinion. Now, its always possible that Trent goes into a downward spiral of immaturity and doesn't put in the work...but I don't think that will happen. I'm certainly not going to proceed on the assumption that it will, and that would be the only thing, besides another very serious injury or another failed drug test, that would make me consider him anything close to a bust.

He's had some rough periods in his short career so far, but he's also absolutely MAULED some of the best pass-rushers in the league. Hell, his rookie year he faced a murderer's row of elite pass-rushers week after week and performed above expectations. You'd see the mental lapses or the rough technique sometimes, but in general he was never horribly overmatched very often.

I think people were so used to Chris Samuels over the years that they began to forget how good he was, when healthy, and they take Trent's talent for granted as well, even though he's taken over fairly seamlessly, or as much as you can expect from a young, raw but talented player.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

uh, he was awesome today, and has been borderline elite the past couple of weeks. all things considered including his injuries and the constant shuffling of his side of the oline, i think hes pretty awesome.

hes our best olineman by a landslide and should be a cornerstone of this offense for the next 5-7 years.

[kleese]

He has been very good albeit with episodes of extreme stupidity and immaturity that will cost him dearly if he doesn't clean it up. But he keeps that side of the DL quiet, which is exactly what you want from your LT

[WSHRedskins3ATLBraves3]

No, Trent has been great this year. I'm not really sure what people want out of him.

Can he improve? Yeah. He's doing a good job though.

[B&GVol24]

I can't wait until Steve sees this thread :ols:

[STBonecrusher21]

He's been lights out like the past 5 games. Did you hear D Ware's name at all the last time we played Dallas?

Trent is handling folks!

[HailGreen28]

Trent is OK. After a great start last year, his potential seemed to be the sky itself. We'll see next year if that's the case.

[skinsarel33t]

What are the chances he gets caught again with drugs he gets suspended a year? how likely is he to get caught again? think he will quit?

[brandymac27]

My only issues with him are the penalties, but I think in time he'll get a handle on them. On his overall performance, I think he's actually been pretty good. I think the "C" and "C+" grade in the OP are too low. I would rank them both at (at least) B's. The "F" for the injury thing, we can't really judge him on the pain he was actually feeling b/c we didn't actually experience it. He could have very well been in a lot of pain for all we know.

[SkinsHokieFan]

100 percent incorrect.

Trent Williams is jumping out on film (http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?359419-If-Redskin-LT-Trent-Williams-can-get-his-penalties-under-control-he-could-be-elite-in-2012.-Really-jumping-off-the-film-this-year)

Trent, so long as he matures, is going to be a dominant LT for a very long time. He needs to quit smoking the herb

[Metskins]

Trent Williams has been average at best. Go back and look at the Bills, Cowboys and Niners games. He has bad movement, is not very physical and tends to give up once he's out of position. Is he terrible? No. But he's not "jumping out of the film", either. I don't think the word 'jump' is in his vocabulary.

[LaRonDontLikeUgly]

I'm fine with the way Trent has played, and I absolutely love that he brings an attitude and toughness to our team.

The one thing I worry about is his desire to be great. The knock on him coming out college was that there might be issues with work-ethic, and now we find out that he's been caught puffing on magical herbs by his employers on multiple occasions. Most of my pothead friends (including myself) have way more fun getting stoned and watching Eastbound & Down than we do lifting weights. I would just like him to take his career more seriously.

From what some of my buddies around the league have told me, you either have to be a real pothead or dumb as **** to get caught doing drugs in the NFL. The "random" tests are really not that random, and in most cases the players are informed when or if they might have one coming up. No one looks good when a guy gets suspended for drugs-- the player, the league, the coach, and the team are all much better off if it never comes to that.

[ConnSKINS26]

Trent Williams has been average at best. Go back and look at the Bills, Cowboys and Niners games. He has bad movement, is not very physical and tends to give up once he's out of position. Is he terrible? No. But he's not "jumping out of the film", either. I don't think the word 'jump' is in his vocabulary.

He almost completely shut down Ware in the Cowboys game. He was a little inconsistent in the run game from what I remember, but consistency is the whole thing with him. He's got bucket-loads of talent and potential.

I think he's much closer to reaching it than you seem to, though. "Bad movement"? "Not very physical"? "Jumps not in his vocabulary"?

He's one of the most athletic LT's in the league, at a position known for the most freakish athletes on the OL.

[No Excuses]

He's a complete tool who will most likely get suspended for a full season in the near future. This team would be wise to invest in his replacement. I would not want to go into the season with a new rookie QB knowing that his blindside is being protected by a dumbass who is one bong hit away from sitting on his couch for 16 straight games.

For his play, he's been very good though. It's a shame and our FA shouldn't take this matter lightly. With any other position, you can take the risk. But for a LT, the drop off in talent from starter to backup is usually enormous.

[Laxpunk2006]

Trent Williams has been average at best. Go back and look at the Bills, Cowboys and Niners games. He has bad movement, is not very physical and tends to give up once he's out of position. Is he terrible? No. But he's not "jumping out of the film", either. I don't think the word 'jump' is in his vocabulary.

This is strange considering his ability to recover is generally listed as his greatest attribute. Are we watching the same player?

It seems we're not, seeing as Trent didn't even play in the Bills game.

[ConnSKINS26]

This is strange considering his ability to recover is generally listed as his greatest attribute. Are we watching the same player?

Exactly. His lateral agility is insane for an OL, and this guy thinks he's got "bad movement" and seems to think he's lumbering and un-athletic. No way he's watching the same guy. Maybe he thinks Trent is Jamaal Brown. ;)

[Laxpunk2006]

Exactly. His lateral agility is insane for an OL, and this guy thinks he's got "bad movement" and seems to think he's lumbering and un-athletic. No way he's watching the same guy. Maybe he thinks Trent is Jamaal Brown. ;)

Judging by the fact games he didn't even play in are listed for poor performances I'm guessing it was a fairly arbitray analysis or he really was watching Brown/Locklear.

[MonkFan8]

Really? What has he done to warrant disappointment? He played two bad games earlier in the year if memory serves but has been great in most of his toughest matchups and has looked good since returning from the injury.

If he can keep his stupidity in check I'm not worried at all.

[ConnSKINS26]

In fact, the most disappointing thing about Trent Williams is EA Sport's stupidity in giving him a B potential in Madden. I had to go in and edit him up above 90, and then back down to where he was originally, to raise his potential to an A for my franchise.

So disappointing, Trent :(

I mean, EA.

[flexxskins]

When we beat Seattle last week, wasn't there a thread singing Trent's praises?

I've never seen one player have so many good and bad seasons in one season in my life.

[Rabsuz]

I thought Trent completely manhandled people today vs the Jets, I saw Jammal getting worked almost every play, if you told me to go back to April 30th 2010 and do that pick over, I'd still pick Trent Williams. Guy is a stud. Brown however, is completely useless.

[issapunk]

So would the Trent doubters rather we had picked Okung? From what I know about him, Trent outplays him and Okung is always getting hurt.

The reality of this is that Fred and Trent smoked during the lockout, probably a lot considering it was the only time they would have their freedom. So taking bong rips when your currently 'unemployed' translates into us needing to find their replacements? I am more upset with the NFL punishing players for their actions when they were not even considered being a part of the league at the time.

[Redskins4ever]

Trent WIlliams has the potential to be just as good as Chris Samuels was. And I agree he hasn't put together a flawless season yet. Before the Redskins drafted Williams, the mock drafts all had the Redskins drafting Russell Okung. Maybe Bruce Allen and Mike Shanahan should have drafted Okung. Maybe they felt Williams was a little more athletic than Okung, but it makes you wonder whether or not sometimes they wished they had drafted Okung.

Trent Williams, from what I've seen, is an average left tackle. He's played like it for his first two seasons. When are we going to see this young man play to his utmost potential and become a pro bowler?

[Chump Bailey]

The one thing I worry about is his desire to be great. The knock on him coming out college was that there might be issues with work-ethic, and now we find out that he's been caught puffing on magical herbs by his employers on multiple occasions. Most of my pothead friends (including myself) have way more fun getting stoned and watching Eastbound & Down than we do lifting weights. I would just like him to take his career more seriously.


When I use to smoke, I actually did enjoy working out with a good buzz on. It made me focus and I use to have great lifting sessions.


From what some of my buddies around the league have told me, you either have to be a real pothead or dumb as **** to get caught doing drugs in the NFL. The "random" tests are really not that random, and in most cases the players are informed when or if they might have one coming up. No one looks good when a guy gets suspended for drugs-- the player, the league, the coach, and the team are all much better off if it never comes to that.

Not to mention that beating a urine test for marijuana is simple. With regard to Trent: I think it will sort itself out. I really want to see Willie Smith see some action however and hopefully now that will happen.

[tdigle]

A new LT was needed when Trent was drafted. Yeah, he hasn't been the stud we thought he'd be, but would you rather have Okung, who, although admittedly a solid LT, seems made of glass?

[Voice_of_Reason]

He's immature. 100% immature. The sky is the limit for him physically.

I'm not 100% sure that I care that he's missing 4 meaningless games. Honesty, who cares? I'm truly irritated that he's so freaking immature and does silly stuff outside the playing field.

[Skinsinparadise]

Good time to pick on his character but IMO bad time to pick on his play, he arguably lately has been playing his best football, the last three games.

---------- Post added December-5th-2011 at 07:31 AM ----------


He's immature. 100% immature. The sky is the limit for him physically.

I'm not 100% sure that I care that he's missing 4 meaningless games. Honesty, who cares? I'm truly irritated that he's so freaking immature and does silly stuff outside the playing field.

The problem the way I understand it if they fail again they are suspended for a whole season. Keep in mind, as I understand the 11 players were warned when they failed the previous drug test, that if they failed again they'd be suspended, 9 of those players were smart and disciplined enough to cut out the weed, the two guys who weren't were Trent and Fred. so why should we be confident they can cut out the weed where they can avoid a future one year suspension?

[Burgold]

Disappointed in their decision making too. You need to be smart on and off the field. I suspect most of us if caught using drugs would face suspension or more likely termination at our jobs. Even if you think it shouldn't be illegal. It is.

[GWinSkins83]

Trent Williams has been average at best. Go back and look at the Bills, Cowboys and Niners games. He has bad movement, is not very physical and tends to give up once he's out of position. Is he terrible? No. But he's not "jumping out of the film", either. I don't think the word 'jump' is in his vocabulary.

You are wrong. He completely dominated Ware to a point the girls had to put him on the RT. He did to Clemons too. He has been playing some of the best LT in our division. This thread seems just to be a knee jerk since he got suspended. He probably doesn't JUMPOUT to you because you don't pay attention to OLINE.

[RyansRangers]

he's only as strong as his supporting cast...He has done a great job considering he's playing with diff lineman, diff rb's and Qb who has absolutley no pocket presence

[DJD2]

The problem the way I understand it if they fail again they are suspended for a whole season. Keep in mind, as I understand the 11 players were warned when they failed the previous drug test, that if they failed again they'd be suspended, 9 of those players were smart and disciplined enough to cut out the weed, the two guys who weren't were Trent and Fred. so why should we be confident they can cut out the weed where they can avoid a future one year suspension?

I hadn't heard this. Anybody able to confirm?

[Supreme Wu]

I don't like him. I didn't like him before the suspension and I don't like him now. He's always come off as a low character unmotivated wad, and I don't even hold smoking ganga against him, lord knows it should be legal by now. That has nothing to do with his inconsistency or lack of maturity. He is not top-5 pick material so far, nowhere close.

[DJD2]

Change the title to "Suspension included...." and I would say yes.

[authentic]

I don't know what the OP is talking about Trent is having a good season thus far. And he had another good game today.

[The Tris]

Good time to pick on his character but IMO bad time to pick on his play, he arguably lately has been playing his best football, the last three games.

Seriously.

If we are putting his suspension aside, Trent has been excellent all things considered.

I think there is a huge disconnect between expectations and reality when it comes to highly drafted players among all fans, not just Redskins fans.

I am struggling to think, outside of Joe Thomas, of a first round (EDIT, scratch that, ANY) LT the past five years who has been better their first two years in the league.

[tshile]

I hadn't heard this. Anybody able to confirm?

hadn't herd what?

2nd suspendable offense is a whole season, it would actually be their 4th overall offense


as for the topic at hand...
I'm not conerned about his play on the field. He needs time to grow and become better, and he has no supporting cast (in the entire offense) to help him out.

I'm conerned about williams because of his attitude and decision making both on and off the field. The penalties, 3rd time busted for smoking pot, not bothering to even try to show up to the offseason workouts, they all add up to a person who doesn't take their job seriously or doesn't realize how dumb their decisions are; both are really bad from a guy you were hoping to be a cornerstone of your offense for a decade.

People laughed at the idea of being worried about the necklace he bought, some people even got out right angry in the way they discussed the topic. Unforunately it's sort of an 'i told you so' moment for the rest of us; it was just another glimpse into the mind of trent williams. The guy just isn't very smart, and is bordering on incredibly dumb at this point.

[jfriedenthal]

I don't know what the OP is talking about Trent is having a good season thus far. And he had another good game today.

This.... I think this thread will become irrelevant when we see the line play during Trent's suspension, and how much it drops off.

[Riggo#44]

hadn't herd what?

2nd suspendable offense is a whole season, it would actually be their 4th overall offense


as for the topic at hand...
I'm not conerned about his play on the field. He needs time to grow and become better, and he has no supporting cast (in the entire offense) to help him out.

I'm conerned about williams because of his attitude and decision making both on and off the field. The penalties, 3rd time busted for smoking pot, not bothering to even try to show up to the offseason workouts, they all add up to a person who doesn't take their job seriously or doesn't realize how dumb their decisions are; both are really bad from a guy you were hoping to be a cornerstone of your offense for a decade.

People laughed at the idea of being worried about the necklace he bought, some people even got out right angry in the way they discussed the topic. Unforunately it's sort of an 'i told you so' moment for the rest of us; it was just another glimpse into the mind of trent williams. The guy just isn't very smart, and is bordering on incredibly dumb at this point.

I think it shows someone incredibly immature. But then again he's 23. Yes the necklace is dumb, but hey it's his money. Yes getting busted for smoking pot is incredibly stupid. Hopefully this is the proverbial wake-up call an immature kid needs. There are plenty of players who get in trouble, even suspended, and turn it around. Hopefully Trent can do this.

However his play cannot be questioned -- he has been every bit of the #4 overall pick -- especially lately. If you want evidence of that -- look at the games he missed. I love the Silverback and love watching him play. Hell I don't even mind some of the penalties -- it shows he has a mean streak. But the kid needs to get his head on straight. Hopefully Shanny and Allen will have a little discussion with him.

Time for him and Davis, for that matter, to grow up.

[J-bomb]

I can see the FO not leaving anything to chance or hope an draft a LT an TE as there future replacements! If they cut out the weed great we have nice depth, if not quality insurance to keep the O moving with our yng rookie at the helm.

[tshile]

I wish there was a way out of wiliams that didn't screw the team over. Unfortunately I don't think there is.

He's just way too dumb for us to have spent a 4th overall :(

[DJD2]

hadn't herd what?

I was responding to the poster's comment about Williams & Davis being the only 2 of 11 that were warned but ignored the warning and got busted anyway, with the other 9 staying clean (paraphrasing)

[tshile]

I think it shows someone incredibly immature. But then again he's 23. Yes the necklace is dumb, but hey it's his money. Yes getting busted for smoking pot is incredibly stupid. Hopefully this is the proverbial wake-up call an immature kid needs. There are plenty of players who get in trouble, even suspended, and turn it around. Hopefully Trent can do this.

However his play cannot be questioned -- he has been every bit of the #4 overall pick -- especially lately. If you want evidence of that -- look at the games he missed. I love the Silverback and love watching him play. Hell I don't even mind some of the penalties -- it shows he has a mean streak. But the kid needs to get his head on straight. Hopefully Shanny and Allen will have a little discussion with him.

Time for him and Davis, for that matter, to grow up.
His play - as in between the whistles, how he matches up against the other guy - has been good enough. I wouldn't say it 'cannot be questions', thats absurd. He has not played lights out for the majority of his two years here. He's played well, but I think some of you are so used to watching awful offensive linemen that you're way to willing to give the guy an A+. Again, I don't think eh's bad, and I think he's played well all things considered; i'm not ready to make him a annual pro bowler yet...

Unfortunately more than between the whistles matters in the NFL. He costs us huge pentalties (the team hasn't been in a situation where it really mattered, we're always out of the playoffs by mid/end october), and some of them have cost us games (or may have, who knows what happens if we don't get the penalty).

And the necklace rational can be used for the pot smoking thing - it's his money he looses on a suspension, so whatever he wants to do. Thats why it's not a good rational. (yes i know the necklace doesn't affect the team)
Yes, he can do what he wants with his money; but we can also make judgements about him as a person by what he does with his money. Right now any sane person is seriously questioning the most important thing about a person, what's between his ears.

And yes, smoking pot is a victimless crime and this country goes way overboard in how it handles it. That has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that, as an NFL player, you're asked to follow some pretty simple rules (most of which equate to: follow the law) in exchange for having the oportunity to make millions of dollars every year. Trent can't follow very simple rules; not only that but he broke them 3 times.
The 3rd time he broke them knowing damn well they were watching him and the next time would result in a suspension.

So the guy we spent a 4th overall draft pick is on one more failed test away from being out for an entire season.
an entire season
he hasn't even fished his second year yet.
all because of dumb decisions.



I was responding to the poster's comment about Williams & Davis being the only 2 of 11 that were warned but ignored the warning and got busted anyway, with the other 9 staying clean (paraphrasing)

it was on both 1067 and espn 980 this morning, when they were reading articles from the post and espn.

11 players got caught, nflpa negotiated a deal that didn't involve suspensions, of the 11 trent and davis are the only two to be suspended.
it's worth noting that (as of about an hour ago, things may have changed) there hasn't been any official word on it, so that could change. but it seems to be the numbers everyone is running with.

[Arsenic]

Come to find out, "Silverback Gorilla" is actually a premier strain of Indica marijuana:
http://www.kreamofthekrop.com/ (currently the 3rd crop listed)

Perhaps this is where the nickname came from? :whoknows:

[Bat~man]

I'm not sure where, but, I read that if this was last season...they both would be gone for a year because they're repeat offenders.

Honestly, as bad as it would hurt us....if they fail again then good riddance. You can't be that stupid to repeatedly fail drug tests when you're making millions as an NFL athlete. Put the freakin blunt down, you're career is gonna be 8-10 years then you can smoke yourself blind.

This shows a serious lack of discipline and will power...something you need to be a successful NFL player. Tighten up.

[emor09]

is he chris samuels? no

has he been a good LT for us? yes

[#98QBKiller]

I don't get all of the people who say Williams has been a disappointment. IMO, his only problems are his temper and the fact that he's getting suspended. He is a mauler in the run game and he's very good in pass protection. I think his value to the team was very obvious when he was out for a few games injured. The OL with him looks light years better than the OL without him.

If we could get a solid RT to help out the line, we'd be in pretty good shape.

[Bang]

:doh: all this talk about cutting Williams and Davis.. throw them away, and then of course we'll ***** that we have no talent.

Williams is not disappointing, he's in his SECOND season and playing well. Young players make occasional mistakes. Williams doesn't make them very often, and he's a mauler on the line. DeMarcus Ware turns into DeMarcus Where? whenever Trent squares up on him.
Our offense has a lot of problems, but Williams is not one of them. I think some of you expect to take the packaging off when they're rookies and expect them to play like All Pros right out of the box. It's unreasonable and short-sighted, which of course makes it par for the course for large portions of this fan base.

The internet is a pox on this team. We're ready to throw away anything and everything for anything and everything.

~Bang

[Long-Time-Fan]

I'm worried he's another Tre Johnson

[#98QBKiller]

DeMarcus Ware turns into DeMarcus Where? whenever Trent squares up on him.

:ols::ols::ols:

I love this quote.

[RiggosMohawk]

Suspension aside, Trent Williams has been a huge bright spot this season. I've seen noticeable improvement from his rookie year, which I love to see in the NFL.


DeMarcus Ware turns into DeMarcus Where? whenever Trent squares up on him.

Sig worthy.

[TheLongshot]

is he chris samuels? no

has he been a good LT for us? yes

Funny you mention Samuels. I remember Skins fans saying some of the same things early in his career as well, especially when we were extending his contract.

Williams is young and there are always kinks to work out. No, he's not great yet, but he's shown enough that he can get there. And occasionally, like when he's shutting down Demarcus Ware, he looks the part.

[NNskinsfan1]

In every single game ware has played against williams, he has gotten a sack off of beating williams..stop being ridiculous

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

In every single game ware has played against williams, he has gotten a sack off of beating williams..stop being ridiculous


It's okay to play the Devil's Advocate but come with the facts as well.

Did D.Where? get a sack during the second meeting this year?

[Riggo#44]

It's okay to play the Devil's Advocate but come with the facts as well.

Did D.Where? get a sack during the second meeting this year?

Yes, but he was lined up over Jammal Brown.

[Bang]

In every single game ware has played against williams, he has gotten a sack off of beating williams..stop being ridiculous

go watch them again.
He moves to the other side and gets his pressure off of the right tackle.
He did it both games this year and last year in the second game. In trent's first game against Ware, he stonewalled him.
Since Williams arrived, Ware gets pressure only from the right side.

~Bang

[shakinaiken]

uh, he was awesome today, and has been borderline elite the past couple of weeks. all things considered including his injuries and the constant shuffling of his side of the oline, i think hes pretty awesome.

hes our best olineman by a landslide and should be a cornerstone of this offense for the next 5-7 years.

yep. I was his biggest supporter in the beginning of the season when he appeared to struggle a bit, but i think its easy to see how good hes been lately. This thread topic pops up way too much on ES. Enough already. He is not a bust, and looks to be on the verge of being one the elite LT's in the game.

[GWinSkins83]

In every single game ware has played against williams, he has gotten a sack off of beating williams..stop being ridiculous

This is a big FAIL. Last game Ware had one sack and that was vs Brown. I even think Ware didn't have a sack vs Trent the first game too. You buddy need to look at film. Cause you evidentlly don't know what you are looking at LIVE.

[Skinsinparadise]

I hadn't heard this. Anybody able to confirm?

that's what they said on 980 this morning

[Califan007]

In every single game ware has played against williams, he has gotten a sack off of beating williams..stop being ridiculous
As others have pointed out, you actually have no idea what you're watching when you claim you've seen Ware beat Williams for a sack "every single game" he's gone up against him. It reminds me of the doofus who said he saw Ware get "at least" one sack in "every single game" against the Redskins...then found out he only had like six sacks in 10 games lol...and now we have someone claiming Williams sucked in the game against the Bills, even though he didn't even play in that game :ols:...

Ah, you gotta love fan perception :thumbsup:

[CrabR]

delete this post I misread the thread

[MartinC]

I wonder what people actually watch sometimes. I get most people focus on the ball and only notice the O'Linemen if they jump offside, hold or get beat for a sack. I understand that but still anyone watching this year has to have seen Williams being very solid and at times been extremely good. He has room to grow and he needs to become more consistent and focused (stopping smoking weed might help there!) but he is already a good starting calibre NFL LT.

If Williams can get that focus he already has the mean streak and physical ability, He and Davis are important pieces in what will be a rebuilt offense next year.

They both need the riot acting reading about getting these positive tests though and Davis has probably cost himself several million dollars on his new deal and/or some contract language protecting the team if he gets a suspension.

[NNskinsfan1]

http://www.fftoolbox.com/football/head-to-head-stats.cfm?player_id=7823&opponent=WAS
yea, bash me but the stats are right here. the guy is still being overvalued by this ridiculous homer fanbase,fact is we don't have one future perennial all-star on this tem. BTW he got abused yesterday on a play action pass in the first half which led to an immediate sack

[GibbsFactor]

With the suspension aside, I have no problem with Trent. He's the main cog in our line, which plays pretty darn good with him in.

I'd like for his availability to be better, suspensions and missed time due to injury have really affected his value to the team.

[Califan007]

http://www.fftoolbox.com/football/head-to-head-stats.cfm?player_id=7823&opponent=WAS
yea, bash me but the stats are right here. the guy is still being overvalued by this ridiculous homer fanbase,fact is we don't have one future perennial all-star on this tem. BTW he got abused yesterday on a play action pass in the first half which led to an immediate sack

Is this really your honest response? :ols:...

Those are Ware's stats against the Redskins...NOT against Williams. Nothing on there indicates that the sacks Ware got in games against the Skins were against Williams. And their fantasy football stats at that :ols:...at least use stats that discuss the effectiveness of offensive linemen since, you know, that's what Williams actually is.

So your "the stats are right there" comment is asinine. And using them to somehow denigrate Trent Williams' play is even moreso.

[Bang]

Ware did beat Williams for two sacks last year, but overall, Williams has managed to play him well. Ware usually has to shift at halftime to come from the other side to get consistent pressure.

~Bang

[tshile]

Williams has played well enough that i'm happy we picked him.
He's temper makes him a better player, he just needs to get it under control so it doesn't kill drives by causing 15 yard penalties.

I don't know how anyone could say his play has been bad; just not pro bowl level (yet. or at least, hopefully yet)

He's just dumb.
Hopefully not Heyer dumb, because my understanding from people who met him and watched him in practice was that the tree stump in my front yard has more going for it mentally than heyer.

[ddub52]

Do you remember the games where he didnt play?

[MartinC]

Do you remember the games where he didnt play?

An excellent point!

It's going to be interesting watching our offense the next few weeks without Williams and Davis. Having Davis on the field limits how often defences blitz us. No team wants to match a linebacker in man coverage on Davis so when he motions out or lines up in the slot it pretty much dictates you are going to get zone coverage and gives your QB a much easier read and limit options for pressure for the defense.

Without Davis defences can be more agressive - and that's going to mean that whoever lines up at LT will be tested early and often. Losing one of these guys hurts, losing both together is if not the final nail in the coffin at least the lid going on.

[mcsluggo]

uh, he was awesome today, and has been borderline elite the past couple of weeks. all things considered including his injuries and the constant shuffling of his side of the oline, i think hes pretty awesome.

hes our best olineman by a landslide and should be a cornerstone of this offense for the next 5-7 years.

isn't saying he is the Redskin's best O-lineman this year a bit like saying he is the tallest member of the lollipop guild??


http://front-free.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Lollipop_Guild1.jpg

[flexxskins]

isn't saying he is the Redskin's best O-lineman this year a bit lie saying he is the tallest member of the lollipop guild??


http://front-free.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Lollipop_Guild1.jpg:ols:Bravo!

There is no one on our OL that even comes close to Williams' abilities.

[NLC1054]

Trent has absolutely been one of the few bright spots on our team. He gets dumbass personal fouls sometimes, but he's been playing his best football and has been playing every bit like the 4th overall pick he is. I don't fault him for smoking weed. I fault him for doing it habitually and getting caught doing it three times.

He's young, he's dumb, but he's talented and has been playing like he's talented most of the year. These last three or so weeks, it's been nice knowing that the left side of our lines isn't completely going to collapse. Hopefully Mike gave him a great big earful about it and he learns his lesson.

---------- Post added December-5th-2011 at 04:28 PM ----------


I wonder what people actually watch sometimes. I get most people focus on the ball and only notice the O'Linemen if they jump offside, hold or get beat for a sack. I understand that but still anyone watching this year has to have seen Williams being very solid and at times been extremely good. He has room to grow and he needs to become more consistent and focused (stopping smoking weed might help there!) but he is already a good starting calibre NFL LT.

If Williams can get that focus he already has the mean streak and physical ability, He and Davis are important pieces in what will be a rebuilt offense next year.

They both need the riot acting reading about getting these positive tests though and Davis has probably cost himself several million dollars on his new deal and/or some contract language protecting the team if he gets a suspension.

They don't watch. Period. It's too hard to watch and really study the game for these casual fans.

Fact is, if you don't like Trent, it's because you decided you didn't like him last year and you haven't been paying attention to how well he's been playing.

Nonetheless, everyone who, early in the season, was hoping that Trent got moved to the right side and wanted to give Willie Smith an opportunity because he played really well against second and third stringers, will probably get to see just how much the line needs him.

Even last year when he had his struggles, there was no doubt that the line was better with him than it was without him.

[wildbill1952]

Ignoring the boneheaded, selfish, incredibly stupid, fan/teammate/team and game disrespecting stupidity of being caught three times smoking a doobie as instructed, yeah, the guy has some talent and is not a disappointment as a talent. But as a Redskin, what an absolute bonehead for being caught 3 times and getting busted on a marijuana beef. This could be a thread by itself, but what an idiot. Despite the fact it's going to cost him a quarter of his yearly salary, kills any chance of him ever getting any endorsements, and puts him in line for a full year of suspension if caught again, what an absolute moron. I just hope he mans up and I don't hear that "second hand smoke at a party" garbage. What a buffoon. Way to make the family proud. But as instructed, I'll just look at the talent. The guy could be great. But it requires head and heart to be great. Right now, neither appears to be where it's supposed to be if his goal is to be a great footbal player.

[shakinaiken]

http://www.fftoolbox.com/football/head-to-head-stats.cfm?player_id=7823&opponent=WAS
yea, bash me but the stats are right here. the guy is still being overvalued by this ridiculous homer fanbase,fact is we don't have one future perennial all-star on this tem. BTW he got abused yesterday on a play action pass in the first half which led to an immediate sack

we bash you becasue you're flat out wrong. Williams did not get beat for a sack yesterday. The play you're thinking about happened to Logan Paulsen, not Trent

[kevinklein]

I think Trent has played well, fundamentally. But his post-play antics are annoying as ****, and I'm wont to label him as an *******, douche, what have you. I truly have developed a disliking for Trent, something that usually only happens with players who suck (W. Harris). If he can keep his head on straight, great, but I'm sick of his stupid ass penalties, big mouth, and overall immaturity.

[skinsfanindallas88]

As I see it, Redskins fans tend to dislike players who have mean streaks. I don't know if its the Gibbs effect of like good guys, or we just view these types of players as being Cowboy-esque if you will.

But IMO trent gives this team something we need, good guys are all well and good but at some point you need to have a guy that's gonna make a point on the field. Sometimes it costs of 15 yards and that sucks but it also gets the guys fired up and makes us tougher

[Stadium-Armory]

He is good when not committing penalties and being injured. Unfortunately, its impossible to separate one from the other.

[NoCalMike]

Offensive lineman are not like skill position players who can come into the league as rookies and instantly look like stars.

There is so much that goes into an offensive lineman, let alone an entire O-line to become a solid unit. Trent Williams has the talent. He needs to knock off the distractions and missteps, but the guy has IT.

[Redskins4ever]

In the first game of the year against the G-Men, Trent Williams inability to keep Pierre-Paul at bay bothered me some. Chris Samuels rarely if ever had a bad game. To me, Trent Williams is just lazy at times. He has the talent, the ability, and the athleticism to be a great left tackle, But I'm hoping big things for him. I think he'll reach his first pro bowl next season after his 3rd year.

[U C S D SkinsFan]

He's played better the last few weeks for sure, but overall...#4 pick...I'd say he's a disappointment. He's been inconsistent...gets called for way too many penalties...has been hurt often...and now is missing 4 games. If he gets caught again, he's out for a year. I don't think you can judge him by a few really good games recently w/o factoring everything else. I hope he gets his act together and is consistently dominant next year.

[Califan007]

In the first game of the year against the G-Men, Trent Williams inability to keep Pierre-Paul at bay bothered me some. Chris Samuels rarely if ever had a bad game. To me, Trent Williams is just lazy at times. He has the talent, the ability, and the athleticism to be a great left tackle, But I'm hoping big things for him. I think he'll reach his first pro bowl next season after his 3rd year.

Chris Samuels definitely had his share of bad games, to the point that quite a few on this board called him "overrated", laughed off the idea that he was a Pro Bowl-level LT, and would get upset when he'd restructure.

[Rickc402]

In this draft we need to draft a QB first and then a left tackle.....thats right, Williams needs to be moved to the right and a new left tackle brought in. The primary reason for this is we are one bong hit from losing Williams for an entire season, and I don't think we need to take that risk with a young franchise QB because Williams cant stop acting like he is 16.

[shakinaiken]

Chris Samuels definitely had his share of bad games, to the point that quite a few on this board called him "overrated", laughed off the idea that he was a Pro Bowl-level LT, and would get upset when he'd restructure.

yep. i recall many of those threads. how soon people forget...

[Tarantula]

All I ask is that Williams cut down on the bonehead personal fouls, but honestly, we've lacked an OL with a mean streak for years! The guy handles every elite pass rusher, he will definitely be an elite LT once he cuts down on the penalties.

[isle-hawg]

Trent Williams is an OK LT. But for the 4th pick overall is a bust. His "next" (read 4th) pop for drugs within a year will put him out for a season. The current FO missed on him like they did with McNabb. I am singing the praises for the good that the FO rebuilding (getting younger - not trading away (too many) draft picks in the process to my fellow Redskins fans co-workers) but this makes me question WTF are they doing with their scouts/scouting reports? TW has a bad rep in college for his poor work ethic, and he was the number 2 rated LT on most of the "experts" boards (mid-round pick).

[Hooper]

He has played GREAT the past couple weeks. Graded out extremely high. And it's not like he's playing in a great situation.

If he can stay off the weed, we are set at LT for the next decade.

[Loyal2Washington]

Trent has been very uneven the first year and half of his career to say the least. The past month he has played some of the best LT in the entire league, so we have to ask ourselves why. Now is it realistic to believe that since Trent has already known he failed his third test and will miss four games, that he has actually put down the roach clip, emptied the bong water and started to focus on football.

Trent has to know that a fourth failure is a season killer, for both him and the team, so unless he is a complete and total moron one would reason to believe that the Trent we have seen over the last three games is a completely focused and more importantly completely sober Trent Williams. Now if Trent can pull up his big boy pants and live his life on and off the field the way he has the past month then Trent will live up to the pro bowl level LT we all wish him to become. If he goes back to the partying(illegally) ways that got him in this suspension mess then we will see more of the uneven, great one week awful the next, play that has plagued him the first year and a half of his career. So in essence it's completely up to Trent on what his career will end up as. Trent has clearly shown when focused and motivated he can easily be a force at this level. Now does he grasp the opportunity or turn into another could have been type talent?

[Skinsfan4life83]

So many people coming out the wood work to bash Trent Williams. It is ridiculous.

The guy has more raw talent than almost any other LT out there. He is a physical freak. He has been much better in year two than year one. Which is expected of a rookie olineman. He has more than handled himself against almost every "Elite" pass rusher in the league between last season and this one. The guy is a monster in the zone running scheme.

But now with the failed drug tests/suspension it seems people wanna use that stupid mistake to label him a bust. In my personal opinion its just pot. And I'm gonna give Trent the benefit of the doubt. He won't fail another test. He can reportedly be tested up to 10x a month. Too much money at stake.

[Bat~man]

He is good when not committing penalties and being injured. Unfortunately, its impossible to separate one from the other.

This may be a touch over-board but, I kinda agree with the injury part. I don't see him being a flag machine. He has proven he is going to miss a handful of games every year so drafting/signing a starter quality backup isn't a bad idea at all, especially since this moron is already a "repeat" offender when it comes to being a freakin pothead. I hope we work some magic in this years draft because we need so much... o-line starters/depth is on the list right after QB.

I am definitely not in the "Trent is a bust" crowd because the dude can flat ball, he's just an idiot.

[#98QBKiller]

We're about to see how important he is to this team over the next four weeks. I'm a little worried about Rex Grossman's health.

[mi6]

Trent William has been a disappontment. He has been often injured, and now this! He ought to be ashamed of himself.

[stevemcqueen1]

I can't wait until Steve sees this thread :ols:

tl;dr

[The Tris]

Trent Williams is an OK LT. But for the 4th pick overall is a bust. His "next" (read 4th) pop for drugs within a year will put him out for a season. The current FO missed on him like they did with McNabb. I am singing the praises for the good that the FO rebuilding (getting younger - not trading away (too many) draft picks in the process to my fellow Redskins fans co-workers) but this makes me question WTF are they doing with their scouts/scouting reports? TW has a bad rep in college for his poor work ethic, and he was the number 2 rated LT on most of the "experts" boards (mid-round pick).

Besides Joe Thomas, please tell show me a LT drafted in the past couple years who was better his first two seasons.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about whatsoever. Mid round pick?