Do you want the Redskins to lose to Vikings???

[Renegade7]

The PUBLIC poll is open to skins fans only (of course, honor system), but thread is open to everyone, though targeted specifically to redskins fans:

It's the last home game of the year. Do you, as a redskins fan, want the Redskins to lose to the Vikings to maintain draft position? If you can think of another crazy idea to want us to lose, bring it up.

Of course I want us to win, but one thing I wanted to bring up that I don't know if's been talked about a lot or not: What if RG3 and Barkley don't declare?

Luck is almost a given to get drafted by the Colts. Both RG3 and Barkley are juniors, and although Barkley has a better chance of getting a BCS championship then Griffin, neither of them are going to get the stupid amount of money earlier higher draft picks got because of the new rookie cap. Would it be better for them to finish their degree then come out as seniors? What if we lose-out for that high first rounder and there's no QB of value there for us to pick? Worth it???

[deepo11]

Nah let win and try to gain some momentum for next season. Who knows, Rex could play well enough down the stretch to prove that he can be our QB next year and we can use the picks for other needs. QB's are so hit or miss, who's to say that Barkley or RG3 will be succesful QB's, let see what we have in Rex.

I'm willing to bet that Shanny biggest regret since taken over the skins is benching Rex after the eagles game. Even more than trading for Mcnabb, Haynesworth.

[Crazy Levi]

sorry double

[MLSKINS]

We will land one of the three QB's in this draft no matter where we are picking. Winning these last two games are very crucial right now.

[MattFancy]

I still think we will end up getting a top QB no matter what. Let's try and gain some momentum going into next year

[Crazy Levi]

Lord no. I'm going to the game and I HATE attending Skins losses.

All this draft nonsense...we'll get the pick we get, just like every year and every team. You don't tank in the NFL.

I wish the battered, defeated, and beaten "suck for a pick" crew would just accept that already. The ship is sailed, we already got 5 wins...just give it up already. Sorry guys!

Also, I picked the Skins to go 7-9 in August, and I just LOVE being right. So make it happen Skins!

[balki1867]

I'm going to my first game at FedEx in 12 years, and I DON'T want them to lose.

[brandymac27]

Well, IF all the other NFCE teams lose out and we win our last 2, we'd be 2nd in the NFCE and could maybe squeeze into the paloffs :D (I think). So, I'm thinking we play to win and pray the other NFCE'ers lose out and then sell the farm if we have to for a QB in the draft. And yes, I'm serious :)

But we'd have to hope the Cowboys beat the Giants week 16.

[Operations]

I think it's a win-win situation for us fans. If we win the game, great, we feel good for a little while. It's fun to win, even when we're not sniffing the paloffs. If we lose, well, we won't get too upset because we know we'll be closer to our "QB of the future".

[SinisterJay]

who the heck wants their team to lose at all.....my god :doh:

[mmzznnxx]

I truly believe momentum carries from one season to the next in the minds of players.

I also truly believe Shanahan, Allen and the rest of the coaches will find a long term solution at QB in the draft no matter where we pick. Whether that means trading up, trading down, or staying pat. I don't care if it's Luck or it's Tannehill or a no-name guy, I think that if they draft a QB it's because they really like them and can turn them into a franchise player. I have my own opinions on who and who won't be a good QB, but I'll give the coaches benefit of the doubt.

The only thing I'd rather do than beat the Vikings this upcoming week is beat the Eagles the week after.

Hail.

[Forehead]

Well, IF all the other NFCE teams lose out and we win our last 2, we'd be 2nd in the NFCE and could maybe squeeze into the paloffs :D (I think). So, I'm thinking we play to win and pray the other NFCE'ers lose out and then sell the farm if we have to for a QB in the draft. And yes, I'm serious :)

We've already been mathematically eliminated from the wild card, hate to break it to you. That being said, I still want the team to win out.

[Califan007]

I don't want them to lose, but I don't want them to win, either. I want what I usually want during the preseason: to see production, effectiveness, discipline, talent, speed, tons of effort and no injuries. Wins and losses are secondary at this point.

[brandymac27]

We've already been mathematically eliminated from the wild card, hate to break it to you. That being said, I still want the team to win out.

If we take the Giants spot (if the Cowboys beat them) being #2 in the division, we still wouldn't make it?

Damn, if this is true, you just rained on my parade. :(

[Renegade7]

I don't want them to lose, but I don't want them to win, either. I want what I usually want during the preseason: to see production, effectiveness, discipline, talent, speed, tons of effort and no injuries. Wins and losses are secondary at this point.

You're cool and all, Cali, but it's a 'yes' or 'no' question...:)

[texasthunder]

You play the game to win.

[hail2skins]

The only thing I'd rather do than beat the Vikings this upcoming week is beat the Eagles the week after.

That''s the way I feel as well, particularly if the Philly game winds up meaning something to the Eagles (i.e. if they beat Dallas and the Jets beat the Giants).

Kind of have this "meh" feeling toward the Vikings game......if we win, people won't get very excited because they'll say that's a game you should have won. If we lose, some will be pissed, some will be happy that it'll at least keep our draft position steady or improve it.

Also kind of sucks that Petitbon will be honored at a game where the stadium is going to be half full.

Having said that, I'm hoping for a win and to continue to see the same steady play that we've observed since Rex came back in against Miami.

[brandymac27]

Well, even if we have zero chance at the playoffs, these past few games have made me feel great, and it's been so much fun to watch the Redskins play again. So yeah, I still want us to win.

[Califan007]

You're cool and all, Cali, but it's a 'yes' or 'no' question...:)
No, it's a "yes" or "no" poll lol...the question itself can be answered a bunch of different ways.

[Renegade7]

No, it's a "yes" or "no" poll lol...the question itself can be answered a bunch of different ways.

Damn you and your Jedi Mind Tricks. Can I get a yes or no out of ya, or we just gonna leave it at your original answer to the "question"?

[MattFancy]

This.

We'll find a way to get the QB we want one way or another. Best to finish the season strong and set the table for the offseason/next season than to lose out and have people losing faith in the coaching staff.

We seem to be on the same page here lately! :cheers:

[#98QBKiller]

I still think we will end up getting a top QB no matter what. Let's try and gain some momentum going into next year

This.

We'll find a way to get the QB we want one way or another. Best to finish the season strong and set the table for the offseason/next season than to lose out and have people losing faith in the coaching staff.

[Forehead]

If we take the Giants spot (if the Cowboys beat them) being #2 in the division, we still wouldn't make it?

Damn, if this is true, you just rained on my parade. :(

Nah, Detroit already has nine wins in the North, Atlanta has nine in the South, and neither of them are leading their division. We can't catch either team for a wild card berth. Not to mention the number of teams that are all 7-7 and would have to lose out, and I think some of them may play each other.

[Koala]

Edit: MattFancy said it more succinctly.

[polywog999]

No, What I want is for people to stop with these stupid "should we lose" threads.

Seriously.


:shutup:

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Well, IF all the other NFCE teams lose out and we win our last 2, we'd be 2nd in the NFCE and could maybe squeeze into the paloffs :D (I think). So, I'm thinking we play to win and pray the other NFCE'ers lose out and then sell the farm if we have to for a QB in the draft. And yes, I'm serious :)

But we'd have to hope the Cowboys beat the Giants week 16.

So...you never actually look at the standings, eh? The best we can hope for is 7-9. It's already guaranteed that the wild card will have 9 wins.

[Bonez3]

Seriously, we don't know what it might mean to a relatively young team to finish season on 3 wins. May be far more important than a draft spot.

[MWCREDSKINS]

I sort of hope they lose but look good doing it. Like the Pats game sure they lost but could've beat most teams that day. Honestly 5-11, 6-10 what's the difference but in draft status it means everything

[GaryGreenMonk]

If we take the Giants spot (if the Cowboys beat them) being #2 in the division, we still wouldn't make it?

Damn, if this is true, you just rained on my parade. :(

No we wouldn't, because Detroit and Atlanta are bouth 9-5.

So we'd have to win our division, which is impossible. So we are mathmatically eliminated.

[Boss_Hogg]

Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing.

[abdcskins]

You play the game to win.

No no no no no. You play to win the game. Get it right. ;)

Draft position is great and all but I never want to see the Skins lose. Won't matter anyway whoever we draft will tear his meniscus in the second preseason game. That's just how the football gods will have it.

[brandymac27]

So...you never actually look at the standings, eh? The best we can hope for is 7-9. It's already guaranteed that the wild card will have 9 wins.

Eh- I only looked at the NFCE standings. I was basing this off of the Giants current record. Forehead has already told me I was wrong. Why rub in my disappointment?

[brandymac27]

No we wouldn't, because Detroit and Atlanta are bouth 9-5.

So we'd have to win our division, which is impossible. So we are mathmatically eliminated.

Yeah, I get it now. It's all good b/c NEXT YEAR is our year!!! :beavisnbutthead:

[SamoaSkinz]

No, lets win out. But I cannot believe there are Skin fans that want Rex to be QB next year.

Its seems some people want this team to stay in the cellar for the next 5 years. Lets face it, with Rex Grossman, we will be in the cellar next year, the year after that and so on.

I don't want us to lose but I also want us to draft a top 3 QB next year. So lets win and let Shanny work his magic and somehow draft us our future franchise QB.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Eh- I only looked at the NFCE standings. I was basing this off of the Giants current record. Forehead has already told me I was wrong. Why rub in my disappointment?

Because I am a prick.

[SlinginSammy HOF '63]

We will land one of the three QB's in this draft no matter where we are picking. Winning these last two games are very crucial right now.

Agreed. Draft be damned, Momentum will help us into 2012 and we'll find a way to draft one of the top QBs guaranteed.

[HigSkin]

Nope, blow them out and then screw up Philly's chances at a playoff spot.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Seriously, we don't know what it might mean to a relatively young team to finish season on 3 wins. May be far more important than a draft spot.

It's generally meaningless.

[Timmy Smith]

I'll be proud of the players and team if they win - they should be giving their all, as they are. But I want higher picks.

[brandymac27]

Because I am a prick.

Good answer :silly:

[stevemcqueen1]

I won't get torn up either way. A win will be nice, the draft position will be nice. Positioning in rounds 2-7 is as important as where we pick in the first. But it's always nice to win and there is a HUGE difference between a team coming off a 4-12 campaign and a team coming off a 6-10 or 7-9 campaign

[Rocket442Olds]

Definitely hoping we win, and look like we're making positive strides while doing it.

I think any team that embraces losing, has character issues. Do you really think someone like London Fletcher would say in the Defensive Huddle: "Alright, lets let them score here, we really need RGIII next year, and we don't have any shame in giving up."

Every year the Draft "Experts" and Mock sites have every competent QB going in the first 10 picks, and it never works out that way. Looking at the past 2 Drafts, we're building a young team, and seem to have our scouting rolling well now. Who would've thought we'd have so many of our draft picks around that we do. My point is, let the coaches and staff make the decisions, and us worry about cheering on our team. Would I love RGIII? I think he'd be one helluva fun guy to watch in Burgandy & Gold, but not if the staff thinks he can't fit, or that we need to give up too much to get him.

If we don't draft a QB, I may be one of the few not burning the entire world down.

[Bonez3]

It's generally meaningless.

Absolutely not....Generally meaningless is what draft position a team has.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Absolutely not....Generally meaningless is what draft position a team has.

Name five teams who used late season winning streaks in the previous year to launch themselves from non-playoff team to playoff team.

Arguably, you could begin with last year's Lions - though I think their streak had more to do with finally getting healthy than with finally getting good.

[vegeta613]

I want higher picks, but I can't root for them to lose..........can't do it

[ArmchairRedskin]

I'm fine with winning out if we end up landing one of the special QB prospects in this draft. You ask me right now, though, and I want us to be in the best position possible to make that pick. If that means that we lose a couple of games to end the season while a lot of our starters for next season are not even playing right now, then fine. We got our LT, RT, TEs, RB (?) WR and of course starting QB not even on the field. Not to mention our SS (?) and DE on defense. That's 9 of 22. That's a conservative number that doesn't factor in any other upgrades we make before next season. I think the carry over factor is somewhat mitigated. We'll start to build momentum once we get our franchise signal caller under center. End of next year going into 2013 will be a lot more important.

[Koala]

I sort of hope they lose but look good doing it. Like the Pats game sure they lost but could've beat most teams that day. Honestly 5-11, 6-10 what's the difference but in draft status it means everything

Maybe its possible with the Pats, but there's no such thing as looking good while losing to the Vikings.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Yes....I want them to lose.

And hopefully this will be the last year I have to do that. :2cents:


Edit: I want the Skins to play hard AND lose.

[SonnyRules]

I never want the Skins to lose; it would be like wanting something bad to happen to a family member.

[Phixius]

Ending the season on a 3 game winning streak > Draft position

If Rex cut down on the silly turnovers.....they can finish the season on a three game winning streak.

[ashlynskins]

I still think we will end up getting a top QB no matter what. Let's try and gain some momentum going into next year

+2

[HailGreen28]

Best case scenario: I want all phases of our team to gel, and start executing plays like a well-oiled machine. I want our players to become comfortable enough in their roles, to have found their niches, so we dominate our last two opponents.

So i am still rooting for the Skins to win the next two games. To demonstrate that the team is improving. Regardless of who we draft, the majority of the guys that will be Redskins in 2012, are playing the next two games. I want them to improve.

[Fred Jones]

The skins are not going to lose to the Vikes. If Philly wins this Sunday, the last game will be a battle.

[martytheman]

No, lets win out. But I cannot believe there are Skin fans that want Rex to be QB next year.

Its seems some people want this team to stay in the cellar for the next 5 years. Lets face it, with Rex Grossman, we will be in the cellar next year, the year after that and so on.

I don't want us to lose but I also want us to draft a top 3 QB next year. So lets win and let Shanny work his magic and somehow draft us our future franchise QB.

And what if Shanny/Allen don't agree with you and decide one of the top 3 qb's are not "franchise" qb's and are not worth the cost, and goes in a different direction?

[Fight4RGIII]

As long as they are committed to taking a top 3 QB in the draft(assuming they all join), win away and win with force.

[SWFLSkins]

http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff482/tis_true/gifs/emersonohhellno.gif

[tibbidoe]

I'm so tired of all of these threads. As a fan of any team, you should always want to succeed/win/overcome. Wanting to lose for any reason is NOT what a fan hopes for.

Have some integrity and self-respect. The coaches and players sure as hell do.

[kwitt]

The skins are not going to lose to the Vikes.
:doh:

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

Go 7-9

Trade 2012 and 2013 picks for RGIII

sounds like a plan

And if you've been following LL56's posts, RGIII is apparently #1 on our scouts' board. That's right, if we had the #1 pick, we'd take RGIII over Luck.I just hope he's not #1 on anyone else's board.

(I wouldn't go crazy if we lost out though)

[stevemcc]

It's funny, during the week, my opinion is that it's OK if the Redskins lose, it doesn't matter we're out of the playoffs, better draft pick, etc. Once the game starts though I want them to win.

[The Curious One]

Always play to win. Always.

---------- Post added December-19th-2011 at 07:12 PM ----------


Ending the season on a 3 game winning streak > Draft position

If Rex cut down on the silly turnovers.....they can finish the season on a three game winning streak.

yes, I agree with this. Winning out can NOT be a bad thing. Playing to lose for a "slightly" better draft pick is silly. I would love to see the skins end the season at 7-9 rather than 6-10. Double digit loses suck.

[skinsfan07]

Accidently clicked yes. Mixed bag. Yes I want us to win of course, but our chances of drafting RGIII will drop significantly if we win these last two.

[moondog]

Hell No!!! I want us to kill the Vikings. I want to see us shut AP down, build a big lead, make them one-dimensional and release hounds (Kerrigan and Orakpo) on them. For the last decade, just about every game like this where we've expected to win against a lesser team or coming off a big win, we have a huge letdown or have to battle for what should be an easy win. I'm hoping to see the higher character and harder workers on this team keep that from happening and that we do win by double digits. I will be disappointed if we don't.

[DA SKINS!]

I'd rather just play it safe and lose. Shanny will get his guy, how can we be so sure? No one will remember this game come April.. I mean unless of course we're drafting after the top 3 are off the board. Than and only than will I remember this game and last weeks game or any other meaningless win etc. BUT a loss, I will not remember.

[hail2skins]

Here's something for cheer for:

The Vikings are LAST in the league in terms of points allowed. For the love of God, can the Redskins put up 30 or more against them? The Skins have scored 30 or more a whopping 3 times in the 62 games since Joe Gibbs retired after 2007, and have scored 30 one time in the past 33 games (a loss to Dallas last season).

[mzkp54]

Haha reading is your friend... voted yes because I want them to win. Sorry to skew your poll results...

[Renegade7]

Haha reading is your friend... voted yes because I want them to win. Sorry to skew your poll results...

:) It's all good. The board has spoken anyway, I believe this experiment is over. Most fans want there team to win no matter what. About 80% or more for a team's official message board is about right considering the national demographics of it all...

[HigSkin]

If we just jump on them with a lead, looks like they'll give up....

http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Notebook_Visanthe_Shiancoe_says_some_guys_hung_it_ up_in_defeat121911

But after a six-second pause, the Vikings tight end admitted he didn't see the necessary effort from all of his teammates. "I would say, you could see some guys hung it up," Shiancoe said. "Not a lot though. Like a very small handful of guys."

Shiancoe said it was "very, very disappointing" to see that happen and made it clear he wants no part of being with a team that could be the worst in franchise history.

[FanboyOf91]

**** no! I'm not going to tell London Fletcher what he can't do!

[Dirt]

are we going to do this every week?

Why didn't we just start these week1, I mean no one expected us to make the playoffs anyway right?

Why not do these next year too? Unless of course, there's enough new players on the team for the consensus of fans to draw the line and say "ok now I don't want to lose".

See how bananas this is? When will that line be drawn? See how stupid it is that I'm talking about drawing a line between wanting the team you're a fan of to win or lose?

Maybe we need a different word than "fans" for the people that follow this team.

[Kelvin Bryant]

You're cool and all, Cali, but it's a 'yes' or 'no' question...:)

Not true. I'm cheering for a tie.

[Wyvern]

I don't want them to lose, but I don't want them to win, either. I want what I usually want during the preseason: to see production, effectiveness, discipline, talent, speed, tons of effort and no injuries. Wins and losses are secondary at this point. Exactly my thoughts.

While the Skins are not in the playoff hunt -- it is a rebuilding team in evaluation mode. I'm hoping we get some clear signs of who can step up and man a spot on the offensive line. I'd like to see more progress from Royster, Young, and the young WRs -- especially on their blocking. Gomes is auditioning too. And I want the team gaining in confidence in their offensive game planners -- especially as the running game starts to click against tough run defenses. I want to see Orakpo and Kerrigan finding new ways to elude their blockers and getting to the QB.

A victory would be nice -- but a hard fought game in which the team gave 100% for 4 quarters would be nice too. I want folks to start believing that the 2011 Skins were an exception to the Parcells rule that claims a team is only as good as its record. I still think the 2011 Skins were better than a 4-12 team or even a 5-11 team. There are times when they seem like a scrappy 9-7 team/

The short version -- I don't want a loss, unless the team fought hard and there was something positive the team learned from it. But as a fan, mark me down for a 'well-earned" win.

[Kelvin Bryant]

Name five teams who used late season winning streaks in the previous year to launch themselves from non-playoff team to playoff team.

Arguably, you could begin with last year's Lions - though I think their streak had more to do with finally getting healthy than with finally getting good.

Here's one: the 1981-82 Skins during Gibbs' first season. They finished with 5 wins to get to 8-8, and went 12-1 with the Superbowl win the following year.

[skinfan2k]

Nope. What kind of message will that send. We need to kill them again or people will claim it is the same old redskins, beat the giants and lose to the vikings?

[Califan007]

Damn you and your Jedi Mind Tricks. Can I get a yes or no out of ya, or we just gonna leave it at your original answer to the "question"?

:ols:...Ok, ok...I shall vote "no" and adhere to the spirit of the thread, sir!!

[SkinsHokieFan]

Yes, 100 percent hoping for a loss. Not afraid to say it either

[Redskin4ever]

I'll be there and I'll be rooting for a win. I can never root for a loss, even if it means draft position. Sometimes, things work out for the best when you do the right thing. Tanking to hope you get the QB you want, may or may not be the best thing. 4-12 in 93 got us Heath Shuler. These things don't always work out. Go out and play your best, build some momentum, get some rookies and young guys out there to see what they can do. The young guys winning provides for a better future than those guys losing.

[FSUSkins24]

Pleasantly surprised by the poll results. I guess I should have more faith in the fanbase.

[MariusVT]

No, win the game. You can always try to give up the farm and trade up in the draft to get the guy you want.

[Renegade7]

are we going to do this every week?

Why didn't we just start these week1, I mean no one expected us to make the playoffs anyway right?

Why not do these next year too? Unless of course, there's enough new players on the team for the consensus of fans to draw the line and say "ok now I don't want to lose".

See how bananas this is? When will that line be drawn? See how stupid it is that I'm talking about drawing a line between wanting the team you're a fan of to win or lose?

Maybe we need a different word than "fans" for the people that follow this team.

We're always going to have threads like this, but there have been a lot of them this year. Enough that I felt like making the first one with a poll, just to see what the majority of the board really feels about this issue. After this, it's all just people's opinions vs people's opinions. Because again, most fans want their team to win. Fairweather, real, fake, logical, and kol-aid drinkers alike, about 80% of us on this board want this team to win.

That's all I wanted to see, that's all I needed to know...

---------- Post added December-19th-2011 at 08:56 PM ----------


Not true. I'm cheering for a tie.

Shut the front door. A tie is not a win.

[DM72]

Yeah, I want them to lose.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Everybody who is fine with winning and saying not to worry because Mike will get his man should not be able to grouch about the cost of doing so come draft time.

Ding. If we have to trade 5 picks to get a QB, the 76 percent in this poll will be livid.

[ArmchairRedskin]

Everybody who is fine with winning and saying not to worry because Mike will get his man should not be able to grouch about the cost of doing so come draft time.

[issapunk]

Nah let win and try to gain some momentum for next season. Who knows, Rex could play well enough down the stretch to prove that he can be our QB next year and we can use the picks for other needs. QB's are so hit or miss, who's to say that Barkley or RG3 will be succesful QB's, let see what we have in Rex.

I'm willing to bet that Shanny biggest regret since taken over the skins is benching Rex after the eagles game. Even more than trading for Mcnabb, Haynesworth.

Uhh, can't tell if you're serious or not. We know exactly what we have in Rex: a guy who can play just well enough to lose and sometimes he can play awful. We are going to draft a QB or maybe use FA, but no way Rex returns as the clear-cut starter. Shanny would lose his job if that was the case and rightfully so.

About this thread, I always root for the Skins, but won't complain if we lose. Might be nervous if we win.

[Crazy Levi]

I sort of hope they lose but look good doing it.

Pray tell...how do you lose to the 2-12 Vikings and "look good?"

---------- Post added December-19th-2011 at 09:37 PM ----------


Always play to win. Always.

---------- Post added December-19th-2011 at 07:12 PM ----------



yes, I agree with this. Winning out can NOT be a bad thing. Playing to lose for a "slightly" better draft pick is silly. I would love to see the skins end the season at 7-9 rather than 6-10. Double digit loses suck.

7-9 = best season for the Redskins since 2007.

People want improvement, well, there it is.

[SlinginSammy HOF '63]

Everybody who is fine with winning and saying not to worry because Mike will get his man should not be able to grouch about the cost of doing so come draft time.

I want to win out and then I realize the price we're going to pay next April. Probably/possibly a 1st, 2nd, and then either a 1st or 2nd/3rd in 2012. It may take even more, but am willing to see it happen to carry momentum into 2012. This is why we loaded up in 2011's draft. I get a feeling that we'll do some dealing to somehow get two picks on day one by draft day even with these huge trades.

I am one of those that would like to see Rex start the season and then let the rookie take over around mid season. I don't like the idea of tossing out the rookie on day one unless he totally gets the offense and is in synch with our starters, then yeah, start from day one.

[Boston Skins]

Yes and no. This will be my first and only game attended this season and a win would be fun!

[skins2victory]

Ummm.... Let me think..... HECK NO!!!

[Rabsuz]

I didn't pay 100 dollars to watch them lose.

And I sure didn't pay 100 dollars to root for them to lose in their own stadium.

[hail2skins]

7-9 = best season for the Redskins since 2007.

We went 8-8 in '08 with the Maroon and Black Master.

[Drew_Fl]

I just want to win every game to keep things simple. If you want the Skins to lose for whatever reason, that's fine, this is your team too and you should "cheer" how you see fit.

I have more important things in my life to worry about than if I should cheer for them to lose so we keep the 4th spot or the 6th spot and "we can't win b/c Clevand or Jacksonville or Carolina lost".

I want them to win, and if you don't, that is just fine with me.

[thesubmittedone]

I look at it this way... if all the top QBs go in the first few picks, then that means we're going to have an awesome pool of talented football players at other positions to grab there. That either means we get what would be a top five pick any other year (most likely the best player at said position) or someone will trade a chunk of picks to us to move up to get one of those top guys.

Which means we'll have even more ammo to pick players as well as move around the board as well to nab a QB we believe in. No matter what, our future will be secure. Worse comes to worse we stick with Grossman a little longer than we want to (the way he's been playing since he's been re-inserted has been nothing short of very good, so that's NOT a bad thing... he's playing at a higher level than any QB we've had here since Campbell's first half of 08 and Brunell's 05 season) and get a QB for the future some other time, but with a fully loaded roster.

Imagine Rex behind an even better Oline with an even better WR corps, and an even better defense? Is that so bad? I don't think so.

Look, I don't doubt we'll grab a QB this year in the draft... but I'm not going to kill myself if it somehow doesn't work out like so many here want. I honestly feel like people will jump off the ledge and simply won't accept anything this regime does anymore if they don't get Luck/RG3/Barkley. It's ridiculous.

Especially considering how we all just witnessed perhaps the greatest infusion of talent this past offseason in two decades for the Redskins. Now, we have a chance at another kind of offseason like the last one. We're going to bring even more talent in as so far our scouts and Shanahan have proven to not miss often.

[HigSkin]

I look at it this way... if all the top QBs go in the first few picks, then that means we're going to have an awesome pool of talented football players at other positions to grab there. That either means we get what would be a top five pick any other year (most likely the best player at said position) or someone will trade a chunk of picks to us to move up to get one of those top guys........


Bravo TSD, well said....

[Renegade7]

Ding. If we have to trade 5 picks to get a QB, the 76 percent in this poll will be livid.

Nice way to generalize. :rolleyes:

It really depends on what goes on in free agency. FO has already said it's going to be aggressive again, this time focusing primarily on offense. A lot of the top teams in the draft already have QBs they've invested in long-term, so we may not have to trade up that high even if we win out.

I have faith it's going to work out...

[ClemsSC7Skinfan]

I look at it this way... if all the top QBs go in the first few picks, then that means we're going to have an awesome pool of talented football players at other positions to grab there. That either means we get what would be a top five pick any other year (most likely the best player at said position) or someone will trade a chunk of picks to us to move up to get one of those top guys.

Which means we'll have even more ammo to pick players as well as move around the board as well to nab a QB we believe in. No matter what, our future will be secure. Worse comes to worse we stick with Grossman a little longer than we want to (the way he's been playing since he's been re-inserted has been nothing short of very good, so that's NOT a bad thing... he's playing at a higher level than any QB we've had here since Campbell's first half of 08 and Brunell's 05 season) and get a QB for the future some other time, but with a fully loaded roster.

Imagine Rex behind an even better Oline with an even better WR corps, and an even better defense? Is that so bad? I don't think so.

Look, I don't doubt we'll grab a QB this year in the draft... but I'm not going to kill myself if it somehow doesn't work out like so many here want. I honestly feel like people will jump off the ledge and simply won't accept anything this regime does anymore if they don't get Luck/RG3/Barkley. It's ridiculous.

Especially considering how we all just witnessed perhaps the greatest infusion of talent this past offseason in two decades for the Redskins. Now, we have a chance at another kind of offseason like the last one. We're going to bring even more talent in as so far our scouts and Shanahan have proven to not miss often.

Amen to this, I second everything you said really. I'm looking forward big time to how much talent and youth we're going to have when the offensive side of the ball gets the overhaul. This has been fun to see when you sit back from the W L column and see the transformation of what we were (recently) and what we are now. We've got better depth and now we need to begin a winning tradition into the new decade.

[The Curious One]

To all those who say play to lose so we get a better draft pick...

Would you run up your credit cards just so you could declare bankruptcy?
Would you shave your head to prevent baldness?
Pull out your toenails just so you don't have to clip them anymore?

Playing to lose is ridiculous, in any sport for any reason. Only cheaters do that, like when they're setting up a scam or taking a dive.

[Dirt]

We're always going to have threads like this, but there have been a lot of them this year. Enough that I felt like making the first one with a poll, just to see what the majority of the board really feels about this issue. After this, it's all just people's opinions vs people's opinions. Because again, most fans want their team to win. Fairweather, real, fake, logical, and kol-aid drinkers alike, about 80% of us on this board want this team to win.

That's all I wanted to see, that's all I needed to know....

Oh I didn't mean to call you out necessarily. I know, there's been a lot of them this year and we can all understand why. Matter of fact, I can't say it isn't interesting to reads peoples opinions on the matter.

Just saying I wish we weren't at this point as a fanbase dealing with a struggling team for years. And I think it's dangerous to be in such a state because it might be a hard habit to break. This kind of thinking (lose to win) will unfortunately be around for awhile, possibly forever. I don't think one ore two playoff appearances is going to change it. If we get knocked out 1st round 2 years in a row, people will want that next top5 pick out of college to 'fix' it.

Just sucks it's come to this.

[Boss_Hogg]

I sort of hope they lose but look good doing it. Like the Pats game sure they lost but could've beat most teams that day. Honestly 5-11, 6-10 what's the difference but in draft status it means everything


It's generally meaningless.


Yes....I want them to lose.

And hopefully this will be the last year I have to do that. :2cents:


Edit: I want the Skins to play hard AND lose.


No, and I figured out a reason why

If we beat the Vikings, and they lose out and the Colts win another game, the Vikings get the number one pick in the draft. Then, we can trade up with the Vikings and draft Luck!!


WIN FOR LUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1


Yes, 100 percent hoping for a loss. Not afraid to say it either


Yeah, I want them to lose.

You all make me sick.

Rather than let the young guys grow and gel you want to lose out so we can be in position for a a big name College QB who hasn't even declared yet!

Let's win out and let the chips fall after week 17. Mike will get his guy, I believe in this coaching staff.

Maybe this team isn't right for you all, it's obvious you all care more about big name players as opposed to team unity.

Hail to the Redskins! let's win out and shut up these "fans."

[Backpack3r]

If we beat the Vikings im gonna be soo pissed!

[amm0409]

I will always route for us to win!!! Lets beat Adrian peterson, and see Willie Smith Block they heck out of Jared Allen :) Im excited to see the newcomers again are you kidding me :) Skins have looked pretty good hear the last couple of weeks!

I think if we win out and were picking down in the draft and theres no top 3 QB to choose from, well theres LB kuechly, A. Jeffrey, Dre Kirkpatrick, Riley Reiff, David DeCastro, Tannehill, Vontaze Burfict. The list goes on and on. There will be many play makers to choose from, plus we could trade down again. I thought our draft last year was Awesome. I was fist pumping when we traded back and not taking Blaine :)

If we win or loose lets let the chips fall and see where we are at the end of the season and then get crazy :) I understand we ALL want the Pro Bowl QB, I do too :)

[spjunkies]

I'm not going to be very happy if we win this pointless contest.

Goooooo Vikes!!!!

[Crazy Levi]

We ain't losing to the Vikings.

The Skins aren't really that bad. They are mediocre. Vikings are Rams bad.

Sorry gang, 6-9 is only a few days away.

[hitmandm]

Depends on what the definition of lose it. Go another 20 years without hope because you constantly miss out on a franchise QB in a QB/passing league. That kind of loss trumps any single regular season game.

There are no moral victories when you dont have a franchise QB

[Redskins4ever]

No, I don't ever want to lose a game. There are those who want to lose in order to secure a top five pick in the draft. If the NFL season ended today, the Redskins would still have a top ten pick. Bruce Allen and Mike Shanahan could still do whatever they have to do in order to trade up to select the player they feel will help the Redskins the most. All of this talk about losing out is ridiculous talk. The Redskins have to win in order to carry positive winning momentum into next season.

[aussieskin]

If any Washington Redskin Fan wants us to ever lose a game then they should become fans of another franchise, I dont care what the reason they have is, wanting a lose is not on, the players dont want it the coaches dont want it the front office dont want it, a loss especially to an inferior team brings derision to the team and disgrace to the name, I always want the Redskins to win, maybe this is something to do with my Australian Culture/ Heritage: but a loss is never acceptable and when it does become an acceptable option then something is seriously wrong or misplaced at best, if we dont get the "Marquie" QB then i trust MS and son to do the best with what we have BUT A LOSS IS NEVER AN OPTION OR AN ACCEPTABLE RESULT HTTR

[TheShredSkinz]

I want a franchise QB. If that means we have to lose to get one than I guess my answer should be yes. I watch games in a daze knowing it doesn't mean anything if we win since we'll most likely be at the bottom of the division.....again. I'm happy when we win but come April I hope I don't look back to Seattle and on as opportunity lost. We could still trade the farm and move up to get our guy. Or maybe Tannehill is the one. Heck, we're the Redskins. Free agency is always an option to filling out our roster with the 'other' positions anyway. HTTR

[LoudMouth12thMan]

A quarter of you are taking crazy pills. I guess the 26% of you who think we should tank are fearful of losing the opportunity to draft a franchise QB. That's crazy. Under Vinny, I'd see your fear and raise you some panic, but this idea that we're screwing ourselves by winning or competing is asinine. Get off the meds and give it time. For every misstep Shanny has made, he's made equal progress and that seems to be ignored or shrugged off as irrelevant by some. I can't wait for April....just to see the reaction here will be worth its weight in gold.

[elkabong82]

I've said it before, I'll keep saying it: I'd rather go 7-9, trade up for a QB in the draft and bring him to a good team executing the system well with lots of young starters playing well than go 4-12 and not have to trade up, but have a team with poor execution and shoddy knowledge and belief in the system, with lots more holes then to fill, young starters playing poorly, and bringing a newly drafted QB into that situation. THAT is why these wins matter. There are 51 other roster spots besides QBs, if they all suck then a QB is going to get killed and likely look more like Gabbert than Manning. I'm sure that would be great for the QBs development to have poor execution all around him and spend half the game on his back as a result.

The Steelers were good, but got better when they drafted Roethlisberger. The Panthers have good results from Cam, but are still a ways off. Draft position for 1 spot shouldn't be as much of a worry as the state of the entire team, hence wins should take priority over draft position.

[thesubmittedone]

^^ Well said, elka.

I think it's hard for people to grasp just how important winning is since it's effects are mainly intangible. They exist in the heart; with building trust and confidence. You don't see those things, so it's like it doesn't exist to them.

Oh, and it's nice to see you posting more frequently lately. Much easier when we win, huh? :)

[wilco_holland]

who the heck wants their team to lose at all.....my god :doh:

ArmchairRedskin Backpack3r Bionickoolaid bishtw BRAVEONAWARPATH Chris0894 cjcindc Coloradoskin CounterTrey DavidGQ drek201 ExoDus84 Fat Stupid Loser Fear Our D! FLRedskins Fred Jones gamecokskins703 GhostRider grhqofb5 hitmandm instinct21 issapunk jeepinjed JeepRyder kwitt Main-Maine MarkRascadizzle Mr.Skinbo mzkp54 Operations PeterKingsIllegitimateKid Polo3 prsnljournalst3 redskindan07 rodvon ScottAH87 skinsfan07 SkinsHokieFan skinsinpdx sniksdeR84 SoulRebel spjunkies STBonecrusher21 stp240 sugewhite94 terpskins10 Timmy Smith Truant War Paint Water Boy whitejimmy zskins

XD

Wouldn't that be weird. Headcoach walking in the room and saying: We need to lose, make sure we don't win. You guys understand me?

I would love to see London Fletchers reaction. Could be epic but it will make you lose your locker room.

[Vooskin]

If we were to win a game I'd rather lose to the Vikings and beat the Eagles. There is also a chance that our week 17 game may have playoff implications, the game against the Vikings means nothing except draft position.

[airborneskins]

If we beat the Vikings im gonna be soo pissed!


I'm not going to be very happy if we win this pointless contest.

Goooooo Vikes!!!!
Dont spew that crap here. Below is the link to the place where both of you can go and "cheer" for the Vikings.
http://www.purplepride.org/content/?name=cheersurvivor

[NewCliche21]

I've said it before, I'll keep saying it: I'd rather go 7-9, trade up for a QB in the draft and bring him to a good team executing the system well with lots of young starters playing well than go 4-12 and not have to trade up, but have a team with poor execution and shoddy knowledge and belief in the system, with lots more holes then to fill, young starters playing poorly, and bringing a newly drafted QB into that situation. THAT is why these wins matter. There are 51 other roster spots besides QBs, if they all suck then a QB is going to get killed and likely look more like Gabbert than Manning. I'm sure that would be great for the QBs development to have poor execution all around him and spend half the game on his back as a result.

The Steelers were good, but got better when they drafted Roethlisberger. The Panthers have good results from Cam, but are still a ways off. Draft position for 1 spot shouldn't be as much of a worry as the state of the entire team, hence wins should take priority over draft position.

The record doesn't matter if the players are playing well and the ball just doesn't bounce their way. Were you embarrassed by the second Cowboys game? The Patriots game? Of course not, because we looked damned good even with our fifth-string waterboy.

For those of you who think that we can just "trade up" like it's no big deal and has no long-term ramifications, that's just as Vinny-like as Vinny. The top spots are going to cost more picks, and that cost increases with the distance between the top pick and your pick. If we want to go from say fourth overall to second, that'd cost around either a first next year or a second and fourth this year because the difference is nill and the player you wanted at two will probably be there at four.. To go from seventh overall to second would cost a LOT more. Drop out of the top ten and we won't have to argue about our first round pick for three years because we won't have one.

Will you honestly go back and look at this Vikings game and say, "Yeah, but, we beat the Vikings!" when we're kicking stones on Day One for the next couple of Aprils?

Look back at the Jaguars game last year. We won that, dropped us to tenth. No playoffs, no Super Bowl. If we lose that game, then we can be where the Browns were. Still no playoffs, still no Super Bowl, but having this conversation:


Oh, hello, Atlanta! What's that? You'd like to give me a **** ton of picks to get your receiver guy? No problem! Next year we'll have two firsts and be able to get any player that we want without screwing ourselves for the next couple of drafts.

Yes, I'd like for that to have happened. I'd like for it to happen again this year. However, winning meaningless games doesn't help that at all.

I don't want to ever see us lose. It burns every time. I enjoyed the crap out of Sunday's beatdown of the Giants. However, in ten years I'll remember being in position to draft our quarterback, and I won't remember losing to the Vikings.

[Fieldy]

Since we're eliminated from the playoffs, my brain wants our boys to lose to get a better draft pick. Last Sunday, however, I couldn't help cheering my ass off when Young dragged Pierre-Paul into the endzone! It's a difference between brain and heart. All week my brain says lose for draft pick and tries to be all morose about football. Sunday, my heart says win, baby, win!

Also, for the record, I have never supported throwing the game. If I found out the skins were doing that, that would make me more pissed than anything. These are two professional teams going at it and one of them has to lose. For the sake of draft pick I simply hope its our team that loses.

[Son of Gadsden]

I want them to win, of course. Im not too worried about draft picks now that I see about how they will fall. I don't see many teams that are a QB threat in front of us, and it's looking like we'll be around 7th or so, so if one doesnt fall to us, I think we've got a good chance to trade up anyway. The Vikings and Jags took QB's last year. We traded down with the Jags so they could get their QB last year, so maybe we have a good relationship with them and they return the favor. They have been saying that despite his poor play, Gabbert is their man. The Vikings have looked good with Ponder, so I can't see them taking another one either. The Rams aren't taking a QB, and we have had a good trade relationship with them in the past, so they're a possibility also. Carolina is not taking a QB, Newton looks damn good. I can't see Tampa Bay taking a QB quite yet. Another bad year from Freeman and maybe next year. I would say our only real threats are Miami and Cleveland, and the way Miami is playing, they'll be after us. Cleveland, I have my doubts will take a QB. I think they need help in pass protection. I don't think McCoy is the problem. If all 4 declare, I'd even be happy with Landry Jones anyway. Of course I'd be ecstatic about Luck or RG3, but my original choice was Jones anyway.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

Nope, I would love to see a packed house and all the fans screaming their heads off. I think it would send a big message to the team showing we care, we want you guys to win and we have your backs no matter what!

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Ding. If we have to trade 5 picks to get a QB, the 76 percent in this poll will be livid.

I haven't voted because I admittedly ride the fence on this issue. But, as someone who gets excited when we win (thinking with my heart instead of my head, basically), I'm completely on board with however Shanahan/Allen decide to acquire a QB this off-season. If they trade up, I'll assume that there really is a vast difference between the top-3 and the rest of the pack. If they sit back and let the action come to them, I'll assume that Shanahan has some of the lesser-known guys graded out relatively similarly to some of the studs. If we wheel and deal to acquire a young veteran whose team is possibly moving in a different direction (Bradford, Cassel, etc.), I'll assume that was the best situation as well.

The only situation that would make me nervous is coming out of the draft without a clear-cut rookie QB to groom and/or young starting QB. Even then though, I'll assume that there was no way we could have acquired someone reasonably. We all know that QB is our biggest weakness so Shanahan obviously realizes this as well. If he is unable to get one, there must be a pretty compelling reason.

[BadKarma]

Rooting for them to win but I also think the team needs to be looking to next season and be using any/every player we have who could use some game experience. ie we should be looking to find out what we have at KR/PR and WR in some of these rookies and seeing less Moss/Gaffney.

[UK_HOG]

I want to win but if we lose I will console myself with the thought that we are one step closer to getting a QB

[Renegade7]

ArmchairRedskin Backpack3r Bionickoolaid bishtw BRAVEONAWARPATH Chris0894 cjcindc Coloradoskin CounterTrey DavidGQ drek201 ExoDus84 Fat Stupid Loser Fear Our D! FLRedskins Fred Jones gamecokskins703 GhostRider grhqofb5 hitmandm instinct21 issapunk jeepinjed JeepRyder kwitt Main-Maine MarkRascadizzle Mr.Skinbo mzkp54 Operations PeterKingsIllegitimateKid Polo3 prsnljournalst3 redskindan07 rodvon ScottAH87 skinsfan07 SkinsHokieFan skinsinpdx sniksdeR84 SoulRebel spjunkies STBonecrusher21 stp240 sugewhite94 terpskins10 Timmy Smith Truant War Paint Water Boy whitejimmy zskins

XD

Wouldn't that be weird. Headcoach walking in the room and saying: We need to lose, make sure we don't win. You guys understand me?

I would love to see London Fletchers reaction. Could be epic but it will make you lose your locker room.

How were you able to see who voted? I started the thread and I still can't find it. :ols:

[bedlamVR]

The record doesn't matter if the players are playing well and the ball just doesn't bounce their way. Were you embarrassed by the second Cowboys game? The Patriots game? Of course not, because we looked damned good even with our fifth-string waterboy.

For those of you who think that we can just "trade up" like it's no big deal and has no long-term ramifications, that's just as Vinny-like as Vinny. The top spots are going to cost more picks, and that cost increases with the distance between the top pick and your pick. If we want to go from say fourth overall to second, that'd cost around either a first next year or a second and fourth this year because the difference is nill and the player you wanted at two will probably be there at four.. To go from seventh overall to second would cost a LOT more. Drop out of the top ten and we won't have to argue about our first round pick for three years because we won't have one.

Will you honestly go back and look at this Vikings game and say, "Yeah, but, we beat the Vikings!" when we're kicking stones on Day One for the next couple of Aprils?

Look back at the Jaguars game last year. We won that, dropped us to tenth. No playoffs, no Super Bowl. If we lose that game, then we can be where the Browns were. Still no playoffs, still no Super Bowl, but having this conversation:



Yes, I'd like for that to have happened. I'd like for it to happen again this year. However, winning meaningless games doesn't help that at all.

I don't want to ever see us lose. It burns every time. I enjoyed the crap out of Sunday's beatdown of the Giants. However, in ten years I'll remember being in position to draft our quarterback, and I won't remember losing to the Vikings.

This is wrong and you know its wrong .

Willing your team to loose is just bad karma - What happens in the draft and arround the draft is what happens in the draft and arround the draft . It is a great way to get your guy for the future but it is a lottery . If you had $1million would you give me all that money if I could enter you in a draw which gives you a 50-1 chance to win $10million?

If RGIII or Luck or Barkley are the next cannot fail QB I would not mind giving up a couple of tickets (draft picks (I would potentially give up a 1,1,2(3),4 ) in my lottery to get him . I would rather that than have my team simply quit which is what the loose out crowd are hoping for ....

[Renegade7]

I haven't voted because I admittedly ride the fence on this issue. But, as someone who gets excited when we win (thinking with my heart instead of my head, basically), I'm completely on board with however Shanahan/Allen decide to acquire a QB this off-season. If they trade up, I'll assume that there really is a vast difference between the top-3 and the rest of the pack. If they sit back and let the action come to them, I'll assume that Shanahan has some of the lesser-known guys graded out relatively similarly to some of the studs. If we wheel and deal to acquire a young veteran whose team is possibly moving in a different direction (Bradford, Cassel, etc.), I'll assume that was the best situation as well.

The only situation that would make me nervous is coming out of the draft without a clear-cut rookie QB to groom and/or young starting QB. Even then though, I'll assume that there was no way we could have acquired someone reasonably. We all know that QB is our biggest weakness so Shanahan obviously realizes this as well. If he is unable to get one, there must be a pretty compelling reason.

C'mon, TD, just say no. You know you want to... :)

[TD_washingtonredskins]

C'mon, TD, just say no. You know you want to... :)

Peer pressure plus a Nancy Reagan cliche...I'm not sure how to react! :ols:

[Renegade7]

Peer pressure plus a Nancy Reagan cliche...I'm not sure how to react! :ols:

:ols: I already got Califan, so you don't have to play the mysterious one if you don't want to...

http://foxspideyfansite.yolasite.com/resources/Villains/Mysterio%20II.jpg?timestamp=1258078616486

[Missouri_Skins_Fan]

I didn't vote because I'm not worried either way...
I'm "Indifferent" about it all...
But I'm also logical,as well.

I know,that the best position,we can possibly land in the draft is #4.
4. Jacksonville (4-10) --- .502 SOS; Remaining: TEN, IND
5. Cleveland (4-10) --- .525 SOS; Remaining: @BAL, PIT
6. Tampa Bay (4-10) --- .543 SOS; Remaining: @CAR, @ATL
These 3 winning at least 1 game. Certainly possible....

I also know that if these 3 teams win 1 more game,the worse draft position we can get is #10th.
11. Tennessee (6-8) --- .466 SOS; Remaining: JAX, HOU
12. Philadelphia (6-8) --- .498 SOS; Remaining: @DAL, WAS
13. Kansas City (6-8) --- .516 SOS; Remaining: OAK, @DEN
Which is also very possible.

So with these numbers...this puts our probable draft position anywhere from #4 at best-to-#10 at worse.
We will get our QB..don't worry people.

The question is? What players will we have to trade, to possibly move up in the draft? Other than using draft picks?
I vote for Cheech & Chong!
They've become a liability, for the Washington Redskins.

[Dallsux]

My answer is an emphatic NO! I want to see our Skins win every game they can.

I have read a lot of posts that I agree with here, particularly the ones that mention momentum going into the offseason. Momentum is important, even in a season that is a loss, mathmatically or otherwise.

I believe in the current coaching staff (although, I am a bit shaky on Kyle, but lately, he has opened things up a bit more, so I have gotten back in his corner a little) & I believe they will make the right moves for this team going into next season in the Draft AND FA.

In the immortal words of the late great Al Davis, "Just Win Baby!" :vikesuck:

[gchwood]

Heck NO! I am taking my 6 year old son to his first Skins game, but he is now a Vikings fan, because of is confused infatuation with McNabb. I hope his Vikes get killed :D

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

I want a win so that I may wake up a happy camper come Christmas Day.

[Dallsux]

The question is? What players will we have to trade, to possibly move up in the draft? Other than using draft picks?
I vote for Cheech & Chong!
They've become a liability, for the Washington Redskins.

Cheech & Chong? I guess you're refering to Trent Williams & Fred Davis...? Then I have to strongly disagree. We need them to straighten out their lives & play well, which they have done in the past. We need them moving forward, especially with the currect OL situation & Cooley seemingly getting hurt all the time. It would be nice to have both Davis & Cooley on the field at the same time tho. Either way, I don't have any idea who should go right now, but those 2 are a definite "no" from my camp.

[thewagen]

Since they have blown the draft order by beating the Giants, then they might as well finish out the season with 2 more wins!!!

[redskinss]

this is one of those situations where we want the skins to win cause we like seeing them play well but come draft time we'll regret it.

I promise if we win out and end up with a pick between 10 and 15 come draft time we will wish we hadnt, especially if barkley luck and rg3 all go before we pick or we have to trade the farm to get one of them.

we havent had a true franchise quarterback in 25 years and it looks like this could be the deepest qb draft since we actually had one.

I dont want any moral victories if its going to cost us a chance to finally get a franchise qb.

I would love to get one of the big 3 and still have the rest of our draft to continue to build on the last two drafts, that would be a dream come true draft for me.

[Missouri_Skins_Fan]

Well...I'm confident we will finish with 1 more win at least. be it the Vikings or Eagles.
Shanny's never finished worse than 6-10 in any coaching season.
Last year and the 99 season when Elway had retired and Griese was hurt.

It's going to be what teams win and lose,these final 2 games that will decide our Draft Order.
It's a good thing we have a low SOS%. That actually,might be..what saves us...(meaning...getting our QB and being in front of all same records))

I will say this...if we do lose 1 more game this season.
We won't be picking lower than 10th.

[The Dude]

I will NEVER root for the Redskins to lose. Anyone who does otherwise is guilty of treason and should leave the team.

They will win and win big this weekend.

[Santana_89]

Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing.

We've lost enough the past few years I want WINS damn it!

[KDawg]

Here's how I want it to be:

If the Redskins genuinely come out and lay an egg, yes, I want them to lose. I don't want the Vikings to outsuck us. If we're bad, I'd rather lose and keep the draft position.

That said, I can't ever root for the 'Skins to lose. And if we come out and play like we did for three quarters against the Jets, for the entire games like we did against New England and the Giants, then hell yes I want to win. Playing well and winning does a lot for a football team, I don't care what anyone says.

[HateYanksDukeCowboys]

I want them to lose in such a way that provides both maximum entertainment and satisfaction with certain players performing great, as well as severe exposure to certain players' flaws, thereby further compelling management to address the needs of this team. Specifically:

1. Running game: Would love to see Helu, Royster, and even Torrain have great games.
2. Passing/Receiving game: Would like to see Moss drop a few balls while Paul and Austin have big games.
3. O-Line: Would like to see Willie Smith and Palumbo take a few steps back.
4. D-Line: Would like to see the line get pushed around
5. LB: Would like to see missed coverages and tackles
6. DB: Would like to see Hall and Wilson fried for a handful of big plays

The overall theme here is exposing the mirage of goodwill from the past few weeks so that the front office is reminded just how poor our O-line is, how bad it is that Moss is our #1 WR, how overrated and thin our front seven are, and further exposing the need for a 1 and a 2 CB.

That said, I'd like to see the continued development of the two rookie RB's, as well as a reminder that Torrain is a good RB when given a chance, and one last chance for Austin, whom I fear may be an odd man out next season witjh the return of Hankerson and the inevitable draft pick or two of WR's.

[Crazy Levi]

I want them to lose in such a way that provides both maximum entertainment and satisfaction with certain players performing great, as well as severe exposure to certain players' flaws, thereby further compelling management to address the needs of this team. Specifically:

1. Running game: Would love to see Helu, Royster, and even Torrain have great games.
2. Passing/Receiving game: Would like to see Moss drop a few balls while Paul and Austin have big games.
3. O-Line: Would like to see Willie Smith and Palumbo take a few steps back.
4. D-Line: Would like to see the line get pushed around
5. LB: Would like to see missed coverages and tackles
6. DB: Would like to see Hall and Wilson fried for a handful of big plays

The overall theme here is exposing the mirage of goodwill from the past few weeks so that the front office is reminded just how poor our O-line is, how bad it is that Moss is our #1 WR, how overrated and thin our front seven are, and further exposing the need for a 1 and a 2 CB.

That said, I'd like to see the continued development of the two rookie RB's, as well as a reminder that Torrain is a good RB when given a chance, and one last chance for Austin, whom I fear may be an odd man out next season witjh the return of Hankerson and the inevitable draft pick or two of WR's.

I love this angle.

As if we could somehow lose to the 2nd worst team in the NFL and "look good."

It ain't gonna happen. We are going to win this game. 6-9 Hatas!!!!

[HateYanksDukeCowboys]

I love this angle.

As if we could somehow lose to the 2nd worst team in the NFL and "look good."

It ain't gonna happen. We are going to win this game. 6-9 Hatas!!!!

Show me where I said we would "look good."

This is what I said:

"I want them to lose in such a way that provides both maximum entertainment and satisfaction with certain players performing great, as well as severe exposure to certain players' flaws, thereby further compelling management to address the needs of this team."

And yes, it is possible for certain players to look good while others do not, and lose to an NFL team. In fact, I'd argue that in every single one of our games this year, certain guys looked good and others did not.

Also, I don't know how this constitutes me as a hater (err, sorry, Hata) as much as it does someone who's looking big picture here. It's becasue I don't hate that I want them to lose this game but have specific pros and cons as part of the loss.

[MLiverpool]

I'd like to see the Redskins finishing strong. Let's build through wins. Yes, it's at a detriment to our draft position, but I am not one to believe losing out and drafting well will bring an amazing future to a franchise. I'd like a more consistent QB, but Grossman is likely to be the man next season while a rookie watches. I don't believe we'll get one of the top three QB's. I don't believe all three will be amazing. I suspect we'll see some Alex Smith/Trent Dilfer and possibly Heath Shuler types lurking. Gotta be wary of the "sure thing". Injuries can upset that in a heartbeat, so depth and team work are necessary.

[Jethrodsp]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMk5sMHj58I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMk5sMHj58I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMk5sMHj58I

[polywog999]

I hope we lose our first round pick. If it were up to me I'd trade it in order to piss off our whiny fan base.


http://image.spreadshirt.com/image-server/image/product/19333944/view/1/type/png/width/190/height/190/men-s-suck-for-luck-tee-grey.png


I'll never forget the Vinny Testaverty sweepstakes! That worked out pretty good, didn't it?

[Boss_Hogg]

I love this angle.

As if we could somehow lose to the 2nd worst team in the NFL and "look good."

It ain't gonna happen. We are going to win this game. 6-9 Hatas!!!!

for the first time on this board...

I agree with you.

F the haters, F these so called "fans" who prefer big names over Redskin wins.

Hail to the Redskins! Let's finish strong!

[mojo]

I want them to lose in such a way that provides both maximum entertainment and satisfaction with certain players performing great, as well as severe exposure to certain players' flaws, thereby further compelling management to address the needs of this team. Specifically:

1. Running game: Would love to see Helu, Royster, and even Torrain have great games.
2. Passing/Receiving game: Would like to see Moss drop a few balls while Paul and Austin have big games.
3. O-Line: Would like to see Willie Smith and Palumbo take a few steps back.
4. D-Line: Would like to see the line get pushed around
5. LB: Would like to see missed coverages and tackles
6. DB: Would like to see Hall and Wilson fried for a handful of big plays

The overall theme here is exposing the mirage of goodwill from the past few weeks so that the front office is reminded just how poor our O-line is, how bad it is that Moss is our #1 WR, how overrated and thin our front seven are, and further exposing the need for a 1 and a 2 CB.

That said, I'd like to see the continued development of the two rookie RB's, as well as a reminder that Torrain is a good RB when given a chance, and one last chance for Austin, whom I fear may be an odd man out next season witjh the return of Hankerson and the inevitable draft pick or two of WR's.

Wow..not only would you like a loss but you want to pick specific players to look bad/good. Save yourself some grief and go play Madden.

It's as if you're saying if the Redskins beat the miserable Vikings and look good doing it, Shanny and Allen will high-five at midfield knowing they have a championship quality team, no additions necessary....their work is done.

[elkabong82]

The record doesn't matter if the players are playing well and the ball just doesn't bounce their way. Were you embarrassed by the second Cowboys game? The Patriots game? Of course not, because we looked damned good even with our fifth-string waterboy.

For those of you who think that we can just "trade up" like it's no big deal and has no long-term ramifications, that's just as Vinny-like as Vinny. The top spots are going to cost more picks, and that cost increases with the distance between the top pick and your pick. If we want to go from say fourth overall to second, that'd cost around either a first next year or a second and fourth this year because the difference is nill and the player you wanted at two will probably be there at four.. To go from seventh overall to second would cost a LOT more. Drop out of the top ten and we won't have to argue about our first round pick for three years because we won't have one.

Will you honestly go back and look at this Vikings game and say, "Yeah, but, we beat the Vikings!" when we're kicking stones on Day One for the next couple of Aprils?

Look back at the Jaguars game last year. We won that, dropped us to tenth. No playoffs, no Super Bowl. If we lose that game, then we can be where the Browns were. Still no playoffs, still no Super Bowl, but having this conversation:



Yes, I'd like for that to have happened. I'd like for it to happen again this year. However, winning meaningless games doesn't help that at all.

I don't want to ever see us lose. It burns every time. I enjoyed the crap out of Sunday's beatdown of the Giants. However, in ten years I'll remember being in position to draft our quarterback, and I won't remember losing to the Vikings.

Did you ever play sports? If you did, then you understand that close losses eventually don't cut it and don't accomplish the same as winning does.

Those of you who prefer losses now for draft position don't realize you are sacrificing just as those in favor of winning and trading up realize there will be sacrifice. That's disengenous to postulate that people don't realize the cost of trading up. Let's also not ignore that since you all feel justified in rooting for a loss for draft position, sacrificing wins, others feel justified in sacrificing picks and bringing a QB to a good team that believes in itself.

Again, bringing a QB to a 7-9 is better than bringing one to a 4-12 team. Do you prefer Carolina, who has a worse record then us but got Cam, or do you prefer the Steelers, who traded up and brought a good QB to an already good team, and has won Superbowls with him.

A culture of winning is bred, not conjured up simply by sucking ass for a high draft pick and hoping you get a once-in-a-generation Peyton Manning, instead of Akili Smith, Ryan Leaf, Jamracus Russell, Tim Couch, Heath Schuler, etc. I'd rather have the Steelers method, with an entire good team, than the paper-thin Colts method that become the worst team in the NFL by losing 1 position.

[NewCliche21]

Did you ever play sports? If you did, then you understand that close losses eventually don't cut it and don't accomplish the same as winning does.

Those of you who prefer losses now for draft position don't realize you are sacrificing just as those in favor of winning and trading up realize there will be sacrifice. That's disengenous to postulate that people don't realize the cost of trading up. Let's also not ignore that since you all feel justified in rooting for a loss for draft position, sacrificing wins, others feel justified in sacrificing picks and bringing a QB to a good team that believes in itself.

Again, bringing a QB to a 7-9 is better than bringing one to a 4-12 team. Do you prefer Carolina, who has a worse record then us but got Cam, or do you prefer the Steelers, who traded up and brought a good QB to an already good team, and has won Superbowls with him.

A culture of winning is bred, not conjured up simply by sucking ass for a high draft pick and hoping you get a once-in-a-generation Peyton Manning, instead of Akili Smith, Ryan Leaf, Jamracus Russell, Tim Couch, Heath Schuler, etc. I'd rather have the Steelers method, with an entire good team, than the paper-thin Colts method that become the worst team in the NFL by losing 1 position.

First: Glad to see you on here more!

The Steelers example is poor because they had a crap season in 2003 (6-10 to get the rapist) to get their quarterback. If they were consistently good through that 2003 season, then they don't get him and they don't win those two titles. Picking as high as they did is what got them the rapist in an extremely deep 2004 draft. He was also the third quarterback taken and there was only one worth mentioning after him. Not a deep quarterback draft at all. Put the same guy in this draft and he won't be going 11th.

If you're asking if I'd rather be in the Panthers' position or our position, then it's no contest: Panthers win by a lightyear. I don't know where you're looking for stats, but Carolina has the same record as we do. Oh, and they beat us. Last year they were 2-14; this year they already have at least three more wins. We can eek out one more win if we win out. Hooray! Granted that the Panthers were not consistently as terrible as we have been, but 2-14 and getting that top quarterback is what let them improve as much as they have.

This team believes in itself. They believe in Shanahan. They believe in where they are headed. You're a smart guy, so you know that they are giving it their all out there even though they have nothing to play for. A team that doesn't believe in itself is down in Tampa Bay where the coach is all-but-fired and the team is only a "team" by being a collection of guys wearing the same uniforms. They have no faith, they have no future. We are not the Bucs.

If we were a good team, or if we even had a chance at the division, then I'd be on the opposite end. However, our season is over and those who are playing aren't those who started. They are playing for Coach, they are playing because it's their first shot to do so. Getting a win is nice, but to guys like Smith, Hurt, Paul, Riley, Helu, Royster, Westbrook, Barnes, Gomes, and others, just being on the field is huge. Those are the guys who will be here and flourish with a team that has a great quarterback. Their careers and next season will not be decided by the guys who are either suspended, hurt, or on their way out.

The pick matters next April. A win against the Vikings doesn't.

[MartinC]

We need a QB. I get that, we all get that. To get one of the top 3 rated guys we need a top 5 amd probably top 3 pick. I get that.

I don't get a fan wanting their team to lose, escpecially a team like the Redskins who have been losing consistently for 20 years. Losing is habit and it's a hard one to lose. Winning is also a habit and hard one to gain. As much as we need a QB we also need a culture change and an expectation change - if we can end the year with another couple of wins it would hurt our draft position and increase the cost of us trading up to get the QB we want (which we are going to have to try to do in any case IMO) but it would create confidence and a really positive atmosphere which we can build on into the start of next year.

Especially given the number of young guys who are starting.

[NewCliche21]

We need a QB. I get that, we all get that. To get one of the top 3 rated guys we need a top 5 amd probably top 3 pick. I get that.

I don't get a fan wanting their team to lose, escpecially a team like the Redskins who have been losing consistently for 20 years. Losing is habit and it's a hard one to lose. Winning is also a habit and hard one to gain. As much as we need a QB we also need a culture change and an expectation change - if we can end the year with another could of wins it would hurt our draft position and increase the cost of us trading up to get the QB we want (which we are going to have to try to do in any case IMO) but it would create confidence and a really positive atmosphere which we can build on into the start of next year.

Especially given the number of young guys who are starting.

Since when has a positive atmosphere with the current players, with many who won't be coming back, had an effect on the following year with players who have never been here?

Without trading with Jacksonville, we don't have: Hankerson, Helu, Gomes, Paul, or Hurt. That's assuming that everything else was picked the same way. Oh, and we traded three picks to move up to grab Helu.

How could we pull off such an amazing draft? We traded a high pick to Jacksonville so that they could get Gabbert. If we're sitting at 16 to begin with, then we're not getting that phone call, and we're not getting those players.

To bring it up again: Had we lost to Jacksonville last year, then we could have been the ones answering the phone for Atlanta's trade up instead of the Browns. Could you effing imagine what Shanahan could do with the bevy of picks that Cleveland got? It's mind-boggling. Ironically, had we lost that game and gotten even just the SAME trade, then we would have two firsts to trade to whoever to get whatever quarterback we want, and nobody would be cheering for a loss.

And that was with just eight picks, the extra ones being in the lower round. We entered with eight and left with twelve players. That's just insane, and I can't imagine what magic they could do with a substantially higher pick.

Anyway, I digress. Just answer this: What would you rather have? The above mentioned players or a "gee gosh darn dolly things are looking up" feeling after the Jacksonville game last year? I'll go with those players.

[elkabong82]

First: Glad to see you on here more!


The pick matters next April. A win against the Vikings doesn't.

First, thank you. Semester of grad school is over, so I have more time. ES beware, hahaha.

Steelers you are correct, I forgot they slid a year. However, they were still able to get their franchise guy going 6-10. The team was still a good team overall but had a slide IIRC due to Maddox either regressing or being figured out. But, had they been lower in the draft, trading up to get Ben wouldn't have cost that much, and some would argue that their team was already good, so giving up picks to get essentially that final piece would have been worth it.

My point is that the culture of winning is vitally important, and giving up picks to get the QB isn't terrible when you're bringing him to a good team. The more we win now, the more it means the young guys are excelling in the system and solidifying their spots. Carolina is 5-9, I was looking at a site which hadn't updated the results unfortunately. Still, they have a ways to go, and their main weapon, Steve Smith, is no spring chicken. There's also the concern of the team being abysmal should Cam get injured or have a sophomore slump next season. Instead of the Panthers, how about the rams? Bradford can't even stay healthy because he lacks support and spends most of the game on his back. Do we want a Ramsey repeat? Teams like the Pats and Steelers win games even when their starting QB goes out because the team overall is good, which is why I used the Colts as a contrast to them.

For the occasional Colts that get the very rare elite QB, there are teams like the Pats, Steelers, Packers, and Saints who get their franchise QB outside of the top 5, or even through free agency.

I agree that win or lose this team believes in itself, but I will never agree that losing out is the best route. If we have to rely on losing for draft position to get better, than our GM, coaches, and scouting department aren't very good.

Roethlisberger wasn't the top QB prospect of his class, nor was Brees, nor Rodgers. You have to have faith that this team can be good regardless of draft position. The Pats and Steelers find a way eventhough they pick later in most drafts. If we want a good team then our personnel has to be equally capable.

Not giving up, having the young guys win, is more important and beneficial to development then playing well and still losing. If you're losing, then problems persist, and it's no guarantee simply adding a QB will fix all that. But if you're winning, then you bring the QB into a good position.

The pick next April matters for one position, which does have a significant effect on the team. But, a win against the Vikings matters for the remaining 52 players on the active roster, and they typically collectively outweigh the QB position. You want a QB so badly that you're neglecting the intangible values of winning, which are much more significant than playing well and losing. Teams that do the same, that get desperate for a QB so much that they devalue all else, end up like the Chargers with Leaf and seemingly now the Jags with Gabbert. That's why I asked if you had played sports, because if you did then you should have first hand knowledge of the effect winning has on a team.

[MartinC]

Since when has a positive atmosphere with the current players, with many who won't be coming back, had an effect on the following year with players who have never been here?

We had a big clear out of dead wood and ageing players last year and a big infusion of youth many of whom are now making big constitutions - add in Hamk, Williams, Jenkins and Davis to those still out there contributing. Many of the players who are contributing are going to be the nucleus around which we build - them getting the habit and taste of winning is a good thing period IMO.


Without trading with Jacksonville, we don't have: Hankerson, Helu, Gomes, Paul, or Hurt. That's assuming that everything else was picked the same way. Oh, and we traded three picks to move up to grab

Right. These are the young guys who we want to build our future aound along with guys like Davis, Orakpo, Williams, Kerrigan etc. We have a good young nucleus (drug suspension aside for the moment).


How could we pull off such an amazing draft? We traded a high pick to Jacksonville so that they could get Gabbert. If we're sitting at 16 to begin with, then we're not getting that phone call, and we're not getting those players.

Nope. Different year, different situation and different stage of our teams development. This year we are the team making that call not taking it.


Anyway, I digress. Just answer this: What would you rather have? The above mentioned players or a "gee gosh darn dolly things are looking up" feeling after the Jacksonville game last year? I'll go with those players.

I'll take a win every time. Play the games, play to win and then when the dust settles you map our offseason strategy. Winning beats losing in just about any circumstance in my world.

[NewCliche21]

First, thank you. Semester of grad school is over, so I have more time. ES beware, hahaha.

Steelers you are correct, I forgot they slid a year. However, they were still able to get their franchise guy going 6-10. The team was still a good team overall but had a slide IIRC due to Maddox either regressing or being figured out. But, had they been lower in the draft, trading up to get Ben wouldn't have cost that much, and some would argue that their team was already good, so giving up picks to get essentially that final piece would have been worth it.

My point is that the culture of winning is vitally important, and giving up picks to get the QB isn't terrible when you're bringing him to a good team. The more we win now, the more it means the young guys are excelling in the system and solidifying their spots. Carolina is 5-9, I was looking at a site which hadn't updated the results unfortunately. Still, they have a ways to go, and their main weapon, Steve Smith, is no spring chicken. There's also the concern of the team being abysmal should Cam get injured or have a sophomore slump next season. Instead of the Panthers, how about the rams? Bradford can't even stay healthy because he lacks support and spends most of the game on his back. Do we want a Ramsey repeat? Teams like the Pats and Steelers win games even when their starting QB goes out because the team overall is good, which is why I used the Colts as a contrast to them.

For the occasional Colts that get the very rare elite QB, there are teams like the Pats, Steelers, Packers, and Saints who get their franchise QB outside of the top 5, or even through free agency.

I agree that win or lose this team believes in itself, but I will never agree that losing out is the best route. If we have to rely on losing for draft position to get better, than our GM, coaches, and scouting department aren't very good.

Roethlisberger wasn't the top QB prospect of his class, nor was Brees, nor Rodgers. You have to have faith that this team can be good regardless of draft position. The Pats and Steelers find a way eventhough they pick later in most drafts. If we want a good team then our personnel has to be equally capable.

Not giving up, having the young guys win, is more important and beneficial to development then playing well and still losing. If you're losing, then problems persist, and it's no guarantee simply adding a QB will fix all that. But if you're winning, then you bring the QB into a good position.

The pick next April matters for one position, which does have a significant effect on the team. But, a win against the Vikings matters for the remaining 52 players on the active roster, and they typically collectively outweigh the QB position. You want a QB so badly that you're neglecting the intangible values of winning, which are much more significant than playing well and losing. Teams that do the same, that get desperate for a QB so much that they devalue all else, end up like the Chargers with Leaf and seemingly now the Jags with Gabbert. That's why I asked if you had played sports, because if you did then you should have first hand knowledge of the effect winning has on a team.

Grad school is the worst. Have to give up everything for that!

The 2004 draft was very unique. Eight out of the first eleven picks were Pro Bowlers. There was so much talent up top that a SAFETY was taken that high. A friggin' SAFETY. Followed by a tight end! Sure, you can find safeties taken high now, but that was unheard of until Sean Taylor. Tight ends weren't taken with the sixth pick, either. In a 2012 draft, he doesn't last until the eleventh pick. As for being the top prospect, his trajectory was straight up from February through April, but everyone was just focused on Manning.

You can have a team that is really good that doesn't win. Look at the 49ers of 2011. That team seemed like crap, but with nearly the same team as 2010, they have the second seed pretty much locked up.

I think that you're reaching when you bring up "What if Newton has a sophomore slump", because that's not a real argument. Bradford doesn't have any weapons or a line in St. Louis, so him being flat on his back there has nothing to do with how he would perform here. In fact, if we hadn't done the McNabb trade, then we could've taken Bradford. Shanahan wanted him, but the price was too high when he only had four picks that year. Ramsey is irrelevant as well, as Shanahan is not Spurrier and has done a pretty fantastic job with quarterbacks.

More than a quarter of all Super Bowls were won by quarterbacks taken in the top five. That may not sound like much, but when there are 23-31 other teams who didn't get that top spot, your odds are much lower with a quarterback taken out of the top five. No player is ever a guarantee, but you go ahead and pick 199th overall and I'll pick first overall for the next ten drafts, and I'll be sure to tell your grandkids about the good guy you were while you're busy waiting and waiting for Tom Brady.

Having a real quarterback will be more beneficial to their development than winning some meaningless games. Real quarterbacks make their teams better.

You keep bringing up Ryan Leaf, and I'm not sure why. The Chargers didn't tank to get him and the Jaguars didn't do that for Gabbert. You're crossing argument streams here. Haven't you seen "Ghostbusters"? You can't cross streams!

However, if you talk to Bradshaw's Steelers, Unitas's Colts, Griese's Dolphins, Plunkett's Raiders, McMahon's Bears, Aikman's Cowboys, Elway's Broncos, Manning's Colts, or Manning's Giants, I'm sure that they'll tell you a hell of a lot more about their quarterbacks leading them to victory than trying so desperately to get out of the top five. A bunch of those first-overalls, by the way. I also left out any other Super Bowl-winning quarterbacks taken in the first round as well as any Super Bowl-winning teams that had an impact top-five pick at another position.

I'll take the championship brought to me by our star quarterback as opposed to the continuation of mediocrity and pointless wins that only prevent us from getting that quarterback.

Quarterbacks win Super Bowls. Week 16 of the year preceding those mentioned above does not.

---------- Post added December-20th-2011 at 05:42 PM ----------


We had a big clear out of dead wood and ageing players last year and a big infusion of youth many of whom are now making big constitutions - add in Hamk, Williams, Jenkins and Davis to those still out there contributing. Many of the players who are contributing are going to be the nucleus around which we build - them getting the habit and taste of winning is a good thing period IMO.

Yes, it's a fantastic thing. And many of those players aren't here if we don't get that trade with Jacksonville, which we don't get without earning the tenth-overall pick. Your future isn't there if you don't have a crap 2010.




Right. These are the young guys who we want to build our future aound along with guys like Davis, Orakpo, Williams, Kerrigan etc. We have a good young nucleus (drug suspension aside for the moment).

See above.


Nope. Different year, different situation and different stage of our teams development. This year we are the team making that call not taking it.

That's not what I was talking about. I'm saying that if we had won some more meaningless games last year, like I and many others were so excited to have won, then we're not able to trade to get ANY of the above-mentioned. All because we sure showed them Giants in 17 in that scenario. Woohoo!

Also, if we're picking at 4, then making that call for 2 or even 1 isn't going to cost nearly as much as it would even at 7. To get to 2 from 4 would probably be a first and a fourth at the most. To get to 2 from 7 is a couple of firsts or a first and most of the rest of this draft. Then you're sacrificing our next Hankerson, Helu, Jenkins, etc. just to beat the Vikings in a game that will not matter this time next year.


I'll take a win every time. Play the games, play to win and then when the dust settles you map our offseason strategy. Winning beats losing in just about any circumstance in my world.

You'll take a win over the players that you have said are contributing and getting better that are only on the squad because we did NOT win more meaningless games last year? Winning a single game, unless it's the Super Bowl or the NFC Championship against Dallas, means absolutely nothing in the long run. Nothing. Having a top quarterback means EVERYTHING.

[MartinC]

I'll take the championship brought to me by our star quarterback as opposed to the continuation of mediocrity and pointless wins that only prevent us from getting that quarterback.

Quarterbacks win Super Bowls. Week 16 of the year preceding those mentioned above does not.

I think just about all of us agree we need a QB and that getting one at the top of this years draft is almost certainly something we will be doing. If we win a couple more games and pick say 10 as opposed to 5 that increases the cost of us trading up but t also signals that QB is coming to a team with a foundation in place which is heading in the right direction.

I think we have to trade up this year regardless - we need a top 3 pick and maybe top 2.

I understand our argument about what havng last years record allowed us to do in terms of moving around and picking up more players. What I'm saying is we HAVE thoselayers now and seeing them develop and contribute to wins is a good thing. It shows this team is heading in the right direction - we lack a QB as you say. Adding a good young QB this year is key - this year it's quality over quantity.

[NewCliche21]

I think just about all of us agree we need a QB and that getting one at the top of this years draft is almost certainly something we will be doing. If we win a couple more games and pick say 10 as opposed to 5 that increases the cost of us trading up but t also signals that QB is coming to a team with a foundation in place which is heading in the right direction.

I think we have to trade up this year regardless - we need a top 3 pick and maybe top 2.

Nah, it signals that the quarterback is coming to a place that got a ball bouncing the right way or a penalty not being called. We're five points away from literally leading the NFC East right now. Literally FIVE points against the Cowboys in both games combined puts us at 7-7 and likely division champions. The Colts can't say that. The Vikings can't say that. The Rams can't say that. However, we can say that, and the players, coaches, and agents know it.

A loss to the Vikings makes the net cost lower and doesn't change the course of Redskins history in a negative way. Those are the only reasons that I want us to solidify our draft position.

[ArmchairRedskin]

We win out it's a three game win streak. Hardly anything to build on. Lets keep it in perspective. Rodgers took over a 13-3 team and went 6-10 his first year starting. Peyton was 3-13 his first year. Aikman was on a 1-15 team. Point is all those guys are great QB's and all went on to Super Bowl success despite a losing start.

It's not like all 22 of next year's starters are on the field. 9 significant guys are not playing. Some of the guys playing right now won't be starting next year. Its a lot more important that we get exceptional talent at the single most important position on the team that to try and build moementum off of 3 games.

You guys have all seen Grossman try and fail because he can't make all the throws. You've seen how wide open our offense gets the receivers. You've seen glimpses of what could be. Now imagine Luck or Griff in there. Both of those guys hit the deep pass on a regular basis. Luck this year less so due to the guys he has to throw to but he has in the past. Imagine how explosive we can be. You can't settle for a guy. Not in this league and not in the third year of Mike's 5 year deal. We absolutely have to hit on the guy and there is no draft better than this year where the top 2 are very special talents and the third could very well be elite as well.

Now we all know we are gonna have to trade up no matter what. However, if we drop too far the cost could be outrageous for us. Trading into the top 5 from the teens is gonna hurt. Trading up from 7 to the top 5 is not near as bad. I'd rather be able to use future picks than have to sink them into this trade up deal. Thats me rooting for the team, not against it. I want this team to have longterm success. A couple of losses is not gonna set this team back longterm. Having to give up a bevy of picks to move up very well could make us miss out on some very good talent. I can just see all the threads and posts now about how we gave up too much. Judging from the percentage of people that want to win, I'm pretty certain a lot of the same people will be the ones griping.

I'm certainly not advocating the team to mail it in. I don't want them to throw the game. I would just prefer a loss. I want our position to be as much in our favor as possible when it comes time to select our Franchise Quarterback. I prefer the cost to move up to be managable. You don't like that mindset, that's fine. It doesn't make me any less of a fan than you. I want to go back to the Super Bowl as much as the next person. I'm just being rational and pragmatic about it. I think the momentum angle is way overblown.

[Koala]

I'm not going to be very happy if we win this pointless contest.

Goooooo Vikes!!!!

Every football game is an oppurtunity to learn the game, to learn how to win, to build confidence, to build team unity, to build player's belief in the coach and the vice versa. There is no such thing as a pointless contest, except maybe game 4 of the pre-season and games played under a lame-duck coach.

Well, you're not going to build confidence and team unity by losing. Its really not a difficult concept, Im just shocked that the 25% of people who dont get this simple concept manage to dress themselves in the morning.

[Painkiller]

As the losses mounted this year, I tried to take things in stride and find the silver lining.

For me, there is no way this team and organization will not be in better shape going into next season with a 7-9 record as opposed to a 5-11 record. The draft will take care of itself. I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever, that whatever it takes to get the right QB of the future on this team, THIS front office will accomplish that. Where we end up in the 1st round after the season is over is only the starting point for them to get to work figuring out the strategy, and deciding what they want to do. I am confident that no matter what direction they go, they will be making a decision that they feel will best benefit this team.

Seriously, it's time to come down out of the clouds for some of you about this mythical messiah at QB riding in on his white horse and saving the day. Ultimately, we will probably get that guy, and hopefully he pans out, but the damn draft is in April.

I'm not asking anybody to be happy about the team's overall record. I'm not asking anybody to be happy about the team's deficiencies. Why not, just for once...savor the moment, and remember why you became a fan in the first place.

[NewCliche21]

As the losses mounted this year, I tried to take things in stride and find the silver lining.

For me, there is no way this team and organization will not be in better shape going into next season with a 7-9 record as opposed to a 5-11 record. The draft will take care of itself. I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever, that whatever it takes to get the right QB of the future on this team, THIS front office will accomplish that. Where we end up in the 1st round after the season is over is only the starting point for them to get to work figuring out the strategy, and deciding what they want to do. I am confident that no matter what direction they go, they will be making a decision that they feel will best benefit this team.

Seriously, it's time to come down out of the clouds for some of you about this mythical messiah at QB riding in on his white horse and saving the day. Ultimately, we will probably get that guy, and hopefully he pans out, but the damn draft is in April.

I'm not asking anybody to be happy about the team's overall record. I'm not asking anybody to be happy about the team's deficiencies. Why not, just for once...savor the moment, and remember why you became a fan in the first place.

You never explained why being 7-9 going into next season, which gives us a crap draft pick, is better than going 5-11 with a better one. You literally gave no explanation at all, and I'd be interested to read it.

I don't know why you think that the draft will take care of itself. If you're the Rams, then you want Khalil. Moving down two spots will probably let you still have him. Moving down ten spots? He's gone, and now you're still without your tackle. To convince the Rams to do that would take a LOT more than it would if they were just dropping two or three spots.

Will we get a quarterback? I hope so. I also don't want to pay out the nose to get that quarterback and then miss out on this year's Helu, Hankerson, Jenkins, Hurt, Paul, and Neild because we had to trade the rest of the draft away to move up.

Win meaningless games and that happens, don't and it doesn't.

[Painkiller]

You never explained why being 7-9 going into next season, which gives us a crap draft pick, is better than going 5-11 with a better one. You literally gave no explanation at all, and I'd be interested to read it.

because it has everything to do with momentum, confidence, and team-building. All items that cannot be measured, but items that are equally important to a team, just as are QB statistics and your percentage on 3rd down.


I don't know why you think that the draft will take care of itself. If you're the Rams, then you want Khalil. Moving down two spots will probably let you still have him. Moving down ten spots? He's gone, and now you're still without your tackle. To convince the Rams to do that would take a LOT more than it would if they were just dropping two or three spots.

because if the Skins want to trade up to get a guy, we have the ammo and a front office savvy enough to pull it off. If it costs us draft picks, so be it. The problem with this whole lose for a draft pick idea, is that it has absolutely zero basis in reality. There is no way the team actively tries to lose a game to improve or maintain a draft position. The whole idea is the very worst kind of defeatism.


Will we get a quarterback? I hope so. I also don't want to pay out the nose to get that quarterback and then miss out on this year's Helu, Hankerson, Jenkins, Hurt, Paul, and Neild because we had to trade the rest of the draft away to move up. Win meaningless games and that happens, don't and it doesn't.

This right here is the problem. We are fans, you can think what you want to. For the team there are NO meaningless games! Every single game the team plays means something. Every single down means something.

Honestly, straight up...do you think the Coaching staff should try to lose these next two games? and how would you implement a plan that would guarantee a loss, without proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that you were throwing the game?

I'd love to hear your answer.

[NewCliche21]

because it has everything to do with momentum, confidence, and team-building. All items that cannot be measured, but items that are equally important to a team, just as are QB statistics and your percentage on 3rd down.

That's just not true. If that were true, then teams would never get worse, or at least would get worse more often because of a bad preceding season than they would with a Ryan Leaf-type choice. You're saying that it has as much, if not more, impact than the quarterback, or at least that's what I'm getting from it. I could be wrong, so I apologize if I am.

However, if "momentum" mattered, then why are we 5-9 again? We ended on an upswing of sorts. Why didn't the 1991 Redskins go to 18-1 in 1992? 19 - 0 in 1993? And forever stay at the top? I mean, they have momentum, don't they? Momentum would carry over if there wasn't a nine-month break before the next season and all of the players and coaches stayed. With the momentum theory, good teams should always be good and bad teams should always be bad.


because if the Skins want to trade up to get a guy, we have the ammo and a front office savvy enough to pull it off. If it costs us draft picks, so be it. The problem with this whole lose for a draft pick idea, is that it has absolutely zero basis in reality. There is no way the team actively tries to lose a game to improve or maintain a draft position. The whole idea is the very worst kind of defeatism.

We have the ammo to pull it off? And the Colts, Rams, Vikings, and Browns don't have us by the balls because they know that we'll overpay? That's just silly. Having a higher draft pick enables the traded draft picks to be in a lower quantity, and that gives our savvy front office the ability to find a Helu or Royster or White.

And no, no way that a team intentionally tanks. Nobody ever argued that a team would do that. It's what the fans are hoping for that is under discussion.


This right here is the problem. We are fans, you can think what you want to. For the team there are NO meaningless games! Every single game the team plays means something. Every single down means something.

Cool? Like you said, we're fans, so I don't care what it means to them if it makes us win more next year and the years after that. That is all that matters as a fan.


Honestly, straight up...do you think the Coaching staff should try to lose these next two games? and how would you implement a plan that would guarantee a loss, without proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that you were throwing the game?

I'd love to hear your answer.

For the record, when I said that I wanted to read your explanation, there was no sarcasm there at all. I'm glad that you provided it in this post. :)

Again, no coach is going to try to lose games, and I'm not suggesting that they do.

The roulette wheel is spinning. You're pulling for black, and I'm pulling for red. Our rooting interests, however, have no effect on where the ball lands. This is just a big version of "we should have ran on that play vs. the pass was the right call" or "Campbell vs. Collins" or any other situation. Thank the Lord in Heaven that none of us have any impact on their decisions!

. . . except for not hiring Fassel. That would have just been stupid. :)

[Skinsfan1311]

**** No!!!!!!!!

[8181]

I'd like them to lose, but not tank on purpose.

[Renegade7]

Worst-case scenario for you Spock-its-only-logical fans out there:

what if we finish 7-9? Where's the lowest we could land in the draft? I saw somewhere that our easy strength of schedule will cause us at this rate to draft no lower then #10 even if we win out. Can you prove this is not true? Is it really impossible for us to even trade up and get our guy from the 10th overall pick? Do we really need the 2nd overall pick to get our guy???

Edit: seen a couple posters I've known in here for a while now vote, but less then I expected. Where you at?

site shows us with a .469 opponent winning %, surrounded by teams with over .500...

http://www.redskinsgab.com/2011/12/20/as-of-today-the-redskins-would-have-the-7th-selection-in-the-2012-nfl-draft/

[allannis]

I don't want them to win until the game starts, then I can't help myself, I start rooting for them to win.

[Painkiller]

That's just not true. If that were true, then teams would never get worse, or at least would get worse more often because of a bad preceding season than they would with a Ryan Leaf-type choice. You're saying that it has as much, if not more, impact than the quarterback, or at least that's what I'm getting from it. I could be wrong, so I apologize if I am.

it's not an either or though. One doesn't guarantee the other. You don't have to sacrifice one thing or the other. The best teams have always had good combinations of skill, chemistry, and leadership. From your point of view, why don't all these teams that have supposedly "bought" a championship over the years, (and not just in Football) seem like they never pan out? Take the Eagles for example. The "Dream Team" who signed Jenkins and Asomugha (sp?) and expected that simply bringing in these talented players would be enough to put them over the top. We all see how that has panned out, and I think a lot of it has to do with team chemistry. This is where all those intangibles come into play.

it's all good man. I do get really fired up about this topic though, because I really think the most cynical and pessimistic attitude a person could have with regards to their team is hoping they lose games for a draft pick.

[hail2skins]

I think its funny how many folks defended the Skins not drafting a QB last year because the 2012 draft was going to be super deep at the position.

And now that the Skins are winning a few games late in the season, panic is setting in because of falling out of position to draft the top 3 guys.

[Koala]

When will we learn that football messiahs dont exist? How many times have we convinced ourselves that this one player can save our franchise? And how many times have we ended up instead with players who cant carry the team alone because it has too many holes, and whose expensive acquisition ironically hindered our abilities to take care of those very holes that prevented the acquistion from living up to expectations in the 1st place?

Enough pursuing players. Why dont we focus on buidling talent pools through the draft and allowing good players to emerge, rather than searching for them? You win when you get players that exceed expectations (not just meet them), and since the draft is a crapshoot, the key to success is to give yourself as many chances as possible.

I say all this, because no matter what we do for the rest of the season, we're gonna have to trade up to ensure getting RGIII or Barkley. In other words, we're gonna have to pursue. Bill Bellichik wouldnt sacrifice his toe cheese in pursuit of any one player, that has never stepped on the field, much less a win. This "acquire RGIII/Luck at all costs" is loser talk, the same pathetic belief in football saviors that we've been trapped in for over a decade.

Win now. Reap the known benefits of winning. Then see who falls to us in draft, if we dont like it, trade down and expand that talent pool. Whatever you do, dont overpursue for FGII, and sacrificng wins now would be a clear signal that we are willing to overpur

[Boss_Hogg]

This thread is an abomination. It's no wonder our fan base is eroding.

Yuck.

[Jumbo]

It was said in a phone conversation earlier between a couple of mods that if we were really mean we would just take the list of those who voted for "lose" and B2A them. :)

Here's the thing. Think whatever you want, have your reasons, and if they involve why you want the team to lose, discuss them. But the burden of doing it in a manner without risking problems is on you, not us. :)

And fortunately for all concerned, there are a number of folks who know how to do that, but still sometimes precariously.

But the key matter here is this is EXTREMESKINS.

This is not the site to post on hoping the Redskins lose a game (any game) no matter why, or pissing and moaning if they win (no matter why) or getting on the case of someone happy for a win (no matter why).

It doesn't matter if you disagree, it doesn't matter if you don't like it or think it's any form of "unfair", but doing such can easily get you banned (as many have found out). There's no challenge to be made on that, and no debate. Been there, done that. In short, on this angle, "IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU THINK!" :)

[mojo]

It was said in a phone conversation earlier between a couple of mods that if we were really mean we would just take the list of those who voted for "lose" and B2A them. :)

Here's the thing. Think whatever you want, have your reasons, and if they involve why you want the team to lose, discuss them. But the burden of doing it in a manner without risking problems is on you, not us. :)

And fortunately for all concerned, there are a number of folks who know how to do that, but still sometimes precariously.

But the key matter here is this is EXTREMESKINS.

This is not the site to post on hoping the Redskins lose a game (any game) no matter why, or pissing and moaning if they win (no matter why) or getting on the case of someone happy for a win (no matter why).

It doesn't matter if you disagree, it doesn't matter if you don't like it or think it's any form of "unfair", but doing such can easily get you banned (as many have found out). There's no challenge to be made on that, and no debate. Been there, done that. In short, on this angle, "IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU THINK!" :)

THANK YOU! I don't post a lot on the site but I enjoy the commentary and the camaraderie but seeing countless posts hoping the Skins lose is ridiculous. It's the equivalent to saying I'm going to quit my job because it gives me more time to play the lottery.

[Jumbo]

THANK YOU! I don't post a lot on the site but I enjoy the commentary and the camaraderie but seeing countless posts hoping the Skins lose is ridiculous. It's the equivalent to saying I'm going to quit my job because it gives me more time to play the lottery.


Well hell, you've been a member since 2002---post more! :)

[ClarkeKent91]

Yes I want them to lose, simply to have a higher chance at drafting a Franchise QB, without giving up a boatload of draft picks (which is most likely what we'll have to do if we end up drafting outside of the top 10). Im sick of this team being a cellar dweller, and the 2012 draft has 3 prospects that would be first overall picks if they came out in different years. It is CRUCIAL we end up with one of them!!!

[ConnSKINS26]

Yes I want them to lose, simply to have a higher chance at drafting a Franchise QB, without giving up a boatload of draft picks (which is most likely what we'll have to do if we end up drafting outside of the top 10). Im sick of this team being a cellar dweller, and the 2012 draft has 3 prospects that would be first overall picks if they came out in different years. It is CRUCIAL we end up with one of them!!!

I don't COMPLETELY disagree with your post.

But I have a feeling that signing up here just to post that might not go over well after the first post on this page. :ols: Poor timing, possibly.

[elkabong82]

It's a good thing Joe Gibbs tanked games early on in order to get that franchise QB high in the draft that led him to all 3 Superbowl victories.

---------- Post added December-21st-2011 at 01:30 AM ----------


Yes I want them to lose, simply to have a higher chance at drafting a Franchise QB, without giving up a boatload of draft picks (which is most likely what we'll have to do if we end up drafting outside of the top 10). Im sick of this team being a cellar dweller, and the 2012 draft has 3 prospects that would be first overall picks if they came out in different years. It is CRUCIAL we end up with one of them!!!

No, it really isn't crucial we lose out to end up with Luck, RG3, or (I assume) Barkeley. We could finish 7-9, pick 12th, and only the Colts and Miami in front of us would be real threats to take a QB.

It is crucial that the team overall is good. For all any of us know, Luck is the next Leaf, RG3 the next Couch, and our Drew Brees, Ben Roethlisberger, Aaron Rodgers, Jay Cutler, Matt Schaub is sitting there lower in the draft in the form of Barkely, Jones, or Tannehill.

Wishing for your team to lose for a higher draft spot when the prospects are uncertain (no matter how good they look in college), rather than rooting for them to win and improve the current, known prospects on the team, is not fan-like, but is detrimental wishful thinking. If we lose out, have even more holes to fill, and then our QB is the next Jamarcus Russell, will you feel good that you rooted for them to lose? I certainly wouldn't. The focus is better placed on right now and what we have, than focusing on the unknown at the expense of the current.

[SWO-tarious]

I'm definitely looking forward to a big win in front of the home crowd. We are in the position where we can finish the season with strong wins, setting us up for a run next year. Go Skins!

[Jumbo]

I don't COMPLETELY disagree with your post.

But I have a feeling that signing up here just to post that might not go over well after the first post on this page. :ols: Poor timing, possibly.


Easy come easy go.