WP: Redskins may pursue free agents Vincent Jackson, Pierre Garcon and Marques Colston in the hunt for an impact WR

[Oldskool]

The Washington Redskins are making plans to add a high-profile wide receiver in an NFL free agent market that has them in abundance, according to several people familiar with the team’s deliberations.

Most of the speculation about the Redskins’ planned offseason retooling has focused on their strategy to upgrade at quarterback. But offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan has publicly acknowledged the team’s need for a big-play wide receiver, and people with knowledge of the team’s plans say they appear to be focusing on the free agent market, which opens March 13, rather than the draft, for that player.

Such a move could aid the development of a young quarterback if the Redskins add one, perhaps by trading up in the NFL draft to select Baylor’s Heisman Trophy winner, Robert Griffin III, in April. Or it could make for a more potent offense built around a veteran quarterback if the Redskins are able to sign Peyton Manning, who soon may be released by the Indianapolis Colts, or Kyle Orton in free agency.


For the rest of the article, see http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/redskins-may-pursue-free-agents-vincent-jackson-pierre-garcon-and-marques-colston-in-the-hunt-for-an-impact-wr/2012/02/29/gIQAxegTiR_blog.html




Vincent Jackson - WR - Chargers
The Washington Post reports the Redskins are "making plans" to sign a "high-profile" free agent wide receiver in March.

The Redskins no longer have a single proven receiver who can separate from top corners and make plays after the catch. The team plans to address the position via free agency as opposed to the draft. Vincent Jackson and Pierre Garcon are considered the top targets, though Marques Colston is another option if he escapes New Orleans. Reggie Wayne would only be courted as part of a package deal with Peyton Manning.

Related: Redskins, Reggie Wayne, Marques Colston, Pierre Garcon
Source: Washington Post Feb 29 - 1:24 PM

[kiingspadee]

Shouldn't it say OR instead of and.....by saying and it sounds like we are going after all three

[HA1LV1CT0RY]

Shouldn't it say OR instead of and.....by saying and it sounds like we are going after all three

**** it, lets get all three!

[Jumbo]

bulletin....bulletin.... bulletin...airship tragedy!

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s107/jumboskins/hindenburg.jpg

[Backpack3r]

We need to stop at nothing to get RG3

[SkinsHokieFan]

Would prefer 2 tier 2 options (Garcon/Royal) as opposed to 1 A level option (VJax/Bowe)

[kiingspadee]

Would prefer 2 tier 2 options (Garcon/Royal) as opposed to 1 A level option (VJax/Bowe)

With 93 million (I think someone said) in cap space.....get Garcon/Royal and Jax/Bowe

[Oldskool]

We need to stop at nothing to get RG3

Holy crap can we have one thread where there inst a non sequitur RG3 mention? :silly:

[Hitman21ST]

If we're going after a WR, I want it to be Colston. 1000+ yards in 5 of 6 seasons (and that odd season out was cut short due to injury. He was averaging more ypc than any other year) and at least 5 TDs every year. He's young (29 when the season starts). Go for it.

---------- Post added February-29th-2012 at 01:43 PM ----------


With 93 million (I think someone said) in cap space.....get Garcon/Royal and Jax/Bowe

Bowe's not an option. He's getting franchised.

[Oldskool]

With 93 million (I think someone said) in cap space.....get Garcon/Royal and Jax/Bowe

93 million? That would mean the team only has ~$30m tied up in cap space and I don’t see that being correct. Last I heard before the teams last 2 signings they had about $53m in space. I could be wrong though.

[Dukes and Skins]

93 million? That would mean the team only has ~$30m tied up in cap space and I don’t see that being correct. Last I heard before the teams last 2 signings they had about $53m in space. I could be wrong though.

Looking to be about 49 million in cap right now

[bird_1972]

If we're going after a WR, I want it to be Colston. 1000+ yards in 5 of 6 seasons (and that odd season out was cut short due to injury. He was averaging more ypc than any other year) and at least 5 TDs every year. He's young (29 when the season starts). Go for it.

I worry that Colston is more a product of having Brees at QB.

[Taylor703]

I would take Colston/Royal. Royal affords us the ability to cut ties with Brandon Banks and would also give us the ability to move Santana Moss for a late round pick if any team were interested.

---------- Post added February-29th-2012 at 01:49 PM ----------


I worry that Colston is more a product of having Brees at QB.

I disagree. Colston is as advertised. He catches everything, runs great routes and has the ability to go up in the end zone and come down with the ball.

[Jumbo]

We need to stop at nothing to get RG3

Random RG3 posts like this, that are unimaginably repetitive and add nothing even to an RG3 topic and appear even in non RG3 threads, have become an unacceptably stupid problem and are essentially "spam" by rule and, as the case here, can result in a one week ban under the aforementioned rule.

[DavidGQ]

Would prefer 2 tier 2 options (Garcon/Royal) as opposed to 1 A level option (VJax/Bowe)
We already have Tier 2 - Moss/Hankerson/Gafney
We need a Top Tier WR


With 93 million (I think someone said) in cap space.....get Garcon/Royal and Jax/Bowe

We had about 40 mil in cap space. But we signed Montgomery and Scott so that should be less. Then we also need to resign Fletcher and Davis(Tag). So we won't go out and sign everyone. I think we will sign similar to last year. 2 -3 players at most. I think we will sign HT also.

[authentic]

Would prefer 2 tier 2 options (Garcon/Royal) as opposed to 1 A level option (VJax/Bowe)

Not me... i think we need 1 2nd teir WR (Royal) AND a 1st teir WR (VJax)... at that point we would actually have depth at the position. Plus we don't how Hanks hip will hold up by the start of the season...

[kiingspadee]

Yeah I thought 93 was a little bit out there....read it in some thread....I knew that could not have been right

[elkabong82]

With 93 million (I think someone said) in cap space.....get Garcon/Royal and Jax/Bowe

We have 93 million commited to the cap currently, which gives us roughly 49 million in cap space with which to work

[Champskins]

NEWSFLASH: Redskins will be tied to every big name FA, every single year.... why stop now

[WSHRedskins3ATLBraves3]

We already have Tier 2 - Moss/Hankerson/Gafney
We need a Top Tier WR

Exactly. Preferably we get either Jackson or Colston. Both of them have been consistently productive. Colston is a little younger, yet more injury prone. Both good prospects.

[War Paint]

Shouldn't it say OR instead of and.....by saying and it sounds like we are going after all three

We have plenty of cap room. Get them all lol.

[Hitman21ST]

I worry that Colston is more a product of having Brees at QB.

I'd be more concerned if it were Henderson or Meachem. Colston has stickum hands.

[The Tris]

Would prefer 2 tier 2 options (Garcon/Royal) as opposed to 1 A level option (VJax/Bowe)

Based on Garcon rejecting a 5 year offer from the Colts, and reportedly setting his base annual salary at $8 MM, Garcon is a tier 2 WR looking to get p-a-i-d like a tier 1 WR.

Personallly, I think he's a tier 3 WR, but that's neither here nor there.



And based on the lastest tweet, considering Colston is looking for $7 MM per, Garcon is setting himself up as the more expensive option.

[Horton_Predator48]

The article talks about how this is such a deep market for WRs but in truth it seems like most of them could be tagged. I like Colston for his size, although he may be a product of Brees, he is still an upgrade over any WR on our team. If not him, I like Royal for his age and speed.

[authentic]

I'd be more concerned if it were Henderson or Meachem. Colston has stickum hands.

yeah, but Malcolm Kelly knees... :ols:

---------- Post added February-29th-2012 at 02:00 PM ----------


The article talks about how this is such a deep market for WRs but in truth it seems like most of them could be tagged. I like Colston for his size, although he may be a product of Brees, he is still an upgrade over any WR on our team. If not him, I like Royal for his age and speed.

I don't think we can only target Royal.. I see him more as a utility guy. We need him and another stud...

[Oldskool]

Based on Garcon rejecting a 5 year offer from the Colts, and reportedly setting his base annual salary at $8 MM, Garcon is a tier 2 WR looking to get p-a-i-d like a tier 1 WR.

Personallly, I think he's a tier 3 WR, but that's neither here nor there.

Garcon could also just want out of Indy and wants to see where Manning lands after the Colts release him sometime between now and March 8th.

[jivelikenice]

Not me... i think we need 1 2nd teir WR (Royal) AND a 1st teir WR (VJax)... at that point we would actually have depth at the position. Plus we don't how Hanks hip will hold up by the start of the season...

Its not about a Tier 1 guy versus a Tier 2 guy. We need players that compliment each other. Hankerson and Gaffney seem like they're ideal at working the middle of the field. Royal can be the slot guy and Garcon could be the deep receiver. It can be a trio that actually works well together and a team with a top flight corner wouldn't be able to key in on one guy then.

[NattyBo]

VJax and Manningham, please.

Would love our offense then, assuming we plugged in the right young QB...

[The Tris]

The WR market might be perceived as deep, and I think it could be even further deflated by how deep this WR draft class is.

You have 20-25 guys, any of whom could conceivably develop into a #1 WR threat. There's going to be very good talent available in the 4th or 5th round this year.

[Truant]

Not a fan of Colston. Whether it was Lance Moore, Devery Henderson, Robert Meachem, Jimmy Graham, Jeremy Shockey, Darren Sproles, or Reggie Bush... there were so many options and targets and receiving the ball from Brees is a big boon. Granted, those players all ate each others stats a bit, but going to a place with a considerable step down at QB and becoming the primary option and I see his stats tumbling downward. Add his injury questionmarks and it makes me very uneasy.

I think Royal and Garcon would be fine additions. Hankerson/Paul can be the Colston type, move the chains. Davis and Cooley can also help in this role and in the redzone. Moss, Royal, and maybe even Robinson can work the slot. Garcon can add some big play and speed outside. Gaffney can back him up as a reliable vet.

I'd take Bowe, but I don't see him being available and I don't see any other guys that would be true #1 options for us. It could happen, but I'd rather improve the #2 and #3 positions and see how Paul/Hankerson look. Then focus next offseason on getting a #1 WR (after we solve QB this year).

[The Tris]

there were so many options and targets and receiving the ball from Brees is a big boon...

I think Royal and Garcon would be fine additions.

Yet you are fine with Garcon, as if the pre 2011 Colts didn't have a myriad of options and targets and receiving the ball from Manning wasn't a big boon?

[MattFancy]

Good job WP! I would've never thought we were going after a WR...

[HailB&G]

Whatever the cap space is, it is about $4 Mill. less after the Monty/Scott re-signings. If they franchise Davis, that is about $5 Mill. less. They will probably offer Lichtensteiger, Carriker, and Hightower decent offers. Figure about $5 Mill. or so for draft signings.

Could leave the Skins with $20-25 Mill. to upgrade at WR, DBs, and OL.

[RiggosMohawk]

And based on the lastest tweet, considering Colston is looking for $7 MM per, Garcon is setting himself up as the more expensive option.

I'd take Colston right now for $7M per. I'm guessing that's probably low-end #1 WR money - sounds like it at least. The only question to me is 4 or 5 years on the contract. I'd put another big roster bonus out there after the 2nd year of the contract, as a convenient out if things go south.

Colston is a big body WR, so as he enters his 30s in this deal, it's not going to be as big a deal if he loses a step. I think we'd get our money's worth out of this deal.

[TheGreek1973]

The WR market might be perceived as deep, and I think it could be even further deflated by how deep this WR draft class is.

You have 20-25 guys, any of whom could conceivably develop into a #1 WR threat. There's going to be very good talent available in the 4th or 5th round this year.

I agree with this that is why I say lets get a Tier 1 receiver and draft one with one of our two 4th round picks. Also I still want to see what our young receivers from last year's draft can do with OTAs and with a full off season this year.

[ballin86]

This is great news!

[Truant]

Yet you are fine with Garcon, as if the pre 2011 Colts didn't have a myriad of options and targets and receiving the ball from Manning wasn't a big boon?

Yes, I am. In large part because he had his best season this past year with Painter and Dan O at QB. And he's 25. And he doesn't have the injury history of Colston. Yes, I'm fine with that.

[MadMonkey]

VJax and Manningham, please.

Would love our offense then, assuming we plugged in the right young QB...

I don't see Manningham as an upgrade considering Gafney posted better numbers, plus add to the fact that Moss posted similar numbers as Manningham and missed nearly half the season.

[Champskins]

Mike Shanny loves VJ...

[Gibbsisgod2006]

Mike Shanny loves VJ...
i remember hearing that Shanny was going to draft VJ when he was in Denver but San Deigo and AJ Smith beat him to the punch.

[Alcoholic Zebra]

I disagree. Colston is as advertised. He catches everything, runs great routes and has the ability to go up in the end zone and come down with the ball.

I also want Colston, nothing better for a young QB to adapt then having two really good and reliable route runners. Gaffney + Colston would be a great starting tandem until Hankerson gets fully recovered from his injury (and I hope he does).

[Champskins]

Jsteelz ‏ @Jsteelzextreme

u got colston who wants about 7 a year jackson round 10 a year wgo wud u sign, close to age, 1 knees, 1..1strike away,know mike loves VJ

[Alcoholic Zebra]

I don't see Manningham as an upgrade considering Gafney posted better numbers, plus add to the fact that Moss posted similar numbers as Manningham and missed nearly half the season.

I agree. I don't want Manningham, I'd rather develop from within. Niles Paul (cut to the backflip catch video) seems to have a knack for catching difficult passes, but is more athletically gifted than Manningham. He can also run block like a beast. I'd rather we try and develop Paul, then sign an overhyped 4th option from a division rival.

---------- Post added February-29th-2012 at 02:34 PM ----------


Jsteelz ‏ @Jsteelzextreme

u got colston who wants about 7 a year jackson round 10 a year wgo wud u sign, close to age, 1 knees, 1..1strike away,know mike loves VJ

Colston for 7 mil a year sounds pretty good.

[The Tris]

I'd take Colston right now for $7M per. I'm guessing that's probably low-end #1 WR money - sounds like it at least. The only question to me is 4 or 5 years on the contract. I'd put another big roster bonus out there after the 2nd year of the contract, as a convenient out if things go south.

Colston is a big body WR, so as he enters his 30s in this deal, it's not going to be as big a deal if he loses a step. I think we'd get our money's worth out of this deal.

I think I would to.

I also think I would consider VJax at $10 MM per.

The deciding factor would be heavy personal due dilligence on VJ and heavy medical due dilligence on MC. Whichever risk seems more managable, that's the direction I would go.

Instead of signing Eddie Royal or another tier 2 guy, I'd probably look at the handful of strong slot guys in the draft. If you really want us to add an undersized, shifty Hokie WR next year, I'd probably rather draft Danny Coale than sign Eddie Royal.

[SkinsCrushCowboys]

Colston, VJAX and Garcon...would be my ranking. I think Garcon would be a solid pick up at a not to terrible price. I still think Royal will end up here. back close t home.

[Chump Bailey]

Colston is hopefully the target. His toughness and commitment to the team IMO is very impressive.

[DogofWar1]

I would love to get VJax or another tall true #1. I'm a little worried about cost, but that's only because I really want us to get Brandon Carr as well, and he's going to be very expensive. I'd also be all for a guy like Tyvon Branch to fill and solidify S, but I am perfectly fine with adding some big WRs.

Either we drastically buff our WR corp, or we drastically buff or secondary. I think there's more underrated talent in the FA WR market, which I think would be easier to elevate to a higher level, so I feel like we could do some less is more deals, but I certainly don't disagree with adding a 6'5" monster WR to the roster.

I'm a little worried about Garcon's cost though. He's good, but if he's asking for 7 mil a year (35 over 5), I'd rather pay Colston than him. Alternatively, I'd rather pay a Meachem or Royal half that.

[SJValleySkinz]

I love the idea of Garcon. He's the youngest of the three, doesn't have the "WR1" tag so he could cost less and most importantly his abilities complement the rest of our WR corps the best. People are so hung up on finding a "number one receiver" but what does that really mean? The Calvin Johnsons of the world don't come around very often, but some of the best passing attacks in the league (Green Bay, New Orleans, NYG, New England) do it with a deep and diverse group of receivers that complement eachother well. I think the addition of Garcon to Davis, Gaffney, Hankerson and maybe Moss gives us just that. Colston's attributes are all be it better but at the same time similar to the receivers we already have and Jackson has been salivating over a big contract for two years so he won't come cheap. Go with Garcon, especially with the Messiah at QB.

[NLC1054]

God the Post sucks...

"Redskins may pursue wide receiver?". No ****ing ****. They might want Vincent Jackson or Marques Colston? Wow, it's not like we haven't been talking about ON THIS ****ING FORUM for the better part of three months.

If the Post isn't bashing us they're posting lazy as **** **** like this...

[bird_1972]

I'd be more concerned if it were Henderson or Meachem. Colston has stickum hands.

Do we know the Saints won't franchise him?

[pjfootballer]

Royal is going to be signed to be our 4th WR and to return punts and kicks. I think this spells the end for Austin, Banks, Stallworth (FA) and Armstrong. And Paul can back up Royal returning punts and kicks.

[thecardiacrll]

Do we know the Saints won't franchise him? It's looking like they are going to have to franchise Brees. Reports today say they are far of from a long term contract with Brees.

[Oldskool]

It's looking like they are going to have to franchise Brees. Reports today say they are far of from a long term contract with Brees.

Saints priority with their tag is Brees > Nicks > Colston.

[The Tris]

Yes, I am. In large part because he had his best season this past year with Painter and Dan O at QB. And he's 25. And he doesn't have the injury history of Colston. Yes, I'm fine with that.

Counting stats wise, sure, he posted career highs in yards and receptions (albeit the first season in his career he has ever played 16 games).

Beyond the counting stats, advanced stats aren't as kind to Garcon.

According to Football Outsiders, he ranked 81st (of 92 qualifying players) in DYAR and 78th in DVOA.

http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr

Looking closer at his final stats, you will also see that he piled up 45% of his yards (421) and all of his six TDs in just three games, against the woeful Tampa and New England secondaries, and Kansas City.

Outside of those monster games, Garcon is a guy who averages 4 catches and 40 yards per game, and frequently struggles with drops. He's a one trick vertical receiver, who wants to be paid like an elite playmaker.

[Truant]

Outside of those monster games, Garcon is a guy who averages 4 catches and 40 yards per game, and frequently struggles with drops. He's a one trick vertical receiver, who wants to be paid like an elite playmaker.

I don't disagree, I just don't see a #1 WR worth investing large dollar into. I think Royal is a fine addition in that he his cheap, Shanahan knows him well, and he can take the spot of an Austin or Banks. Garcon I believe fits the part of an explosive #2 WR who is younger and has been more productive than Armstrong. Colston himself has only played in 16 games once in his career as well, but Garcon's absence was due to pecking order rather than injury. If they were the same price I'd rather gamble on Garcon ascending rather than a possession WR with injury concerns who is older.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

Absolutely no to Garcon unless we're getting him to be the #3 WR. He looked above-average with Peyton Manning throwing him the ball and Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark drawing coverage - of course, even with that he dropped a critical pass in the Super Bowl. Bad hands, mediocre route runner - he's Rod Gardner basically.

[Blue Collar Skins]

I really don't understand Vincent Jackson over Dwayne Bowe. Am I dense or something?

[The Tris]

Colston himself has only played in 16 games once in his career as well, but Garcon's absence was due to pecking order rather than injury.

The reason Garcon has never played a 16 game season is injuries - broken hand in 2009 and repeated hamstring injuries in 2010.


Garcon If they were the same price I'd rather gamble on Garcon ascending rather than a possession WR with injury concerns who is older.

Maybe - but Garcon has already rejected an offer for a $7 MM per year deal. Colston has set his asking price at $7 MM.

I just happen to think that finding a 6-0 deep threat with bad hands that runs a 4.45 just isn't that hard a player to find. To be honest, I don't see any meaningful difference between him and AA besides age.

[myzhi]

Peyton & Wayne (package deal) add one of the Jackson. We could have a top 5 Offense. I'll take that over a few first picks and change for RGIII.

[Hitman21ST]

Do we know the Saints won't franchise him?

They're having trouble coming to terms with Brees. They might have to use the tag on him.

---------- Post added February-29th-2012 at 03:30 PM ----------


I really don't understand Vincent Jackson over Dwayne Bowe. Am I dense or something?

Bowe's being franchised.

[elkabong82]

I really don't understand Vincent Jackson over Dwayne Bowe. Am I dense or something?

Bowe is getting the tag, won't leave KC this year, so he's not an option. Shanahan, reportedly, is very high on Bowe, but he's unavailable.

[pjfootballer]

I really don't understand Vincent Jackson over Dwayne Bowe. Am I dense or something?

Bowe will get the franchise tag. VJax will not. For the record, I'd rather have Colston then VJax and I'm really not that fond of even signing VJax.

[thecardiacrll]

I really don't understand Vincent Jackson over Dwayne Bowe. Am I dense or something? Everybody is assuming Bowe will get franchised.

[IS guhn RAIN]

When are people going to realize you cant base your opinions of WR's on stats. All of these guys are good, and probably better than all of the other FA WR's, but part of the big reason everyone thinks they are Tier 1 WR is because of the QB they have throwing to them. Most of these big names free agent WR's every year have great QB's getting the ball to them. Colston has Brees, VJAX has Rivers, etc.

For example, look at Wes Welker. When he was at Miami, did anyone even want to sign him? Did he all of a sudden become a great WR and increase his skill set overnight? No, he had a qb who could actually hit him on the run and a system that will allow him to succeed. He is now a huge name WR and if he was a free agent, trust me, people would want to sign him. But why do teams and fans still think he would be just as good with their team when realistically, he wont be anywhere near that successful. The same goes to Randy Moss. Moss sucked in Oakland and then magically became faster and a great reciever again for the patriots?

I would want dwayne bowe if for whatever reason he isnt tagged because he doenst have a great offense of big name qb around him, and he consistantly makes plays for himself and would be even better if he got in a good system. Other than that, you have to realize these big name FA are never going to be better for the redskins than they are for their current team with a great offense and great QB.

Sorry for the rant, im just a little tired with people thinking these receivers will ever be great here and i want people to focus on those recievers who stand out on bad teams because if we ever get a good Qb, its those recievers who will become even better

[The Tris]

I look at a WR corp like a basketball team - you need different types of players who compliment each other to have a good unit. You can have your PG - shifty slot guy running around, your SG - the deep threat, your SF - your go to guy, who can score inside and out, your PF - the TE you flex out, and a C - possession TE or WR.

What we are looking for is that SF. And going out and signing two or three SG does not simply mean you found someone to play SF. You don't solve your search for a SF by signing a bunch of 7th and 8th men off the bench guys who can sometimes catch lightning in a bottle one or two games a year - you solve it by either drafting a guy who projects to be your SF, or you sign a proven one from another team.

Don't expect a 3rd WR who is used to catching balls from a HOF to suddenly be a #1 guy, just as you don't sign the 8th man from the Lakers and expect him to score 25 ppg.

[bird_1972]

When are people going to realize you cant base your opinions of WR's on stats. All of these guys are good, and probably better than all of the other FA WR's, but part of the big reason everyone thinks they are Tier 1 WR is because of the QB they have throwing to them. Most of these big names free agent WR's every year have great QB's getting the ball to them. Colston has Brees, VJAX has Rivers, etc.

For example, look at Wes Welker. When he was at Miami, did anyone even want to sign him? Did he all of a sudden become a great WR and increase his skill set overnight? No, he had a qb who could actually hit him on the run and a system that will allow him to succeed. He is now a huge name WR and if he was a free agent, trust me, people would want to sign him. But why do teams and fans still think he would be just as good with their team when realistically, he wont be anywhere near that successful. The same goes to Randy Moss. Moss sucked in Oakland and then magically became faster and a great reciever again for the patriots?

I would want dwayne bowe if for whatever reason he isnt tagged because he doenst have a great offense of big name qb around him, and he consistantly makes plays for himself and would be even better if he got in a good system. Other than that, you have to realize these big name FA are never going to be better for the redskins than they are for their current team with a great offense and great QB.

Sorry for the rant, im just a little tired with people thinking these receivers will ever be great here and i want people to focus on those recievers who stand out on bad teams because if we ever get a good Qb, its those recievers who will become even betterThis is a very valid point and one that the Skins FA has fallen victim to on a number of occasions in the past at a number of postions (albiet, but Vinny in charge). I would hope that the Skins would hedge their bets by investing a draft pick in a WR if we are able to, given what it might take to move up for RGIII.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

Im thinking we will add Royal and Garcon. I think Vjaz is going to the Pats. A Miami blogger/reporter said something yesterday that if he doesn't go back the chargers he will prob end up in NE.

Incarcerated Bob ‏ @incarceratedbob
**UPDATED NFL NEWS**Source: Tampa Bay Buccaneers are preparing huge offers for (Wr's) Vincent Jackson & Bowe (If they reach FA) & Nicks (G)

Added this b/c i know these are two guys we want/like around here. Some people dont like the source but he knows his stuff

[The Tris]

Im thinking we will add Royal and Garcon.

Just because two nickles cost you twelve and a half cents each does not mean they are worth a quarter together.

I just can't get over people really wanting to pay Garcon the money that he is going to require (which is more than 5 years, $35 MM). Brandon Lloyd 2.0.

[Blue Collar Skins]

Everybody is assuming Bowe will get franchised.


Bowe will get the franchise tag. VJax will not. For the record, I'd rather have Colston then VJax and I'm really not that fond of even signing VJax.


Bowe is getting the tag, won't leave KC this year, so he's not an option. Shanahan, reportedly, is very high on Bowe, but he's unavailable.


Bowe's being franchised.

Thanks all! Now he has not been yet, but it's a pretty safe bet he will be right? Now if he wasn't?

[pjfootballer]

Yes, Blue Collar Skins, Bowe would be my first choice.

[UK SKINS FAN '74]

VJax, Trent & Fred Davis.

Not sure its a good idea having 2 starters 1 strike away, never mind 3. :whoknows:

[MartinC]

Royal is going to be signed to be our 4th WR and to return punts and kicks. I think this spells the end for Austin, Banks, Stallworth (FA) and Armstrong. And Paul can back up Royal returning punts and kicks.

If we sign Royal I think he might actually replace Santana on the roster - I can see him being cut. He has lost a couple of steps IMO and always seems to come up with a drop at a key time. He has been a very very good player here but if we sign a guy like Royal and Hankerson is healthy and shows he has progressed Moss might be the odd man out given his contract.

---------- Post added February-29th-2012 at 05:42 PM ----------


VJax, Trent & Fred Davis.

Not sure its a good idea having 2 starters 1 strike away, never mind 3. :whoknows:

Call it a support group .....

I think big Phil will be bird dogging Trent and Fred and tearing them a new one if they so much as breath out of turn.

[pjfootballer]

Maybe MartinC, but I doubt it. True that Moss has lost a step, but my 6 WRs for next year would be:

Moss
Gaffney
Hankerson
Paul
Royal
FA- (Colston is my preference).

We cannot carry 8 or 9 WRs next year.

[MartinC]

Maybe MartinC, but I doubt it. True that Moss has lost a step, but my 6 WRs for next year would be:

Moss
Gaffney
Hankerson
Paul
Royal
FA- (Colston is my preference).

We cannot carry 8 or 9 WRs next year.

I would go

FA - Royal
Gaffney
Hankerson
Paul
Draft pick
FA- (Vjax is my preference).

I dont think we will get VJax though - I think his price will get too high given the suspension risk.

[windsofcreation]

Crossing my fingers for Colston.

[RWJ]

Bowe/Colston and Royal.

[Truant]

FA - Royal
Gaffney
Hankerson
Paul
Royal
FA- (Vjax is my preference).



That'd be only five. I could see Moss on their as the 6th. He had a down year, but it wasn't a good year offensively. I think he's signed to a very team-friendly deal. Moss is still a competent NFL starter and I think he's here for another year.

[War Paint]

Just because two nickles cost you twelve and a half cents each does not mean they are worth a quarter together.

I just can't get over people really wanting to pay Garcon the money that he is going to require (which is more than 5 years, $35 MM). Brandon Lloyd 2.0.

True. Garcon doesn't seem like he would be way better than what we already have. I do like Vincent Jackson though.

[MartinC]

That'd be only five. I could see Moss on their as the 6th. He had a down year, but it wasn't a good year offensively. I think he's signed to a very team-friendly deal. Moss is still a competent NFL starter and I think he's here for another year.

Yep I messed up with Royal twice but replaced him with a later round draft pick. I just think if you sign both VJac and Royal and Hank is healthy it's tough to see a role for Moss at the salary he is on. If we don't get one of Vjax or Royal though he will be safe for another year.

[C26 Run]

Colston and Garcon would look good in the B&G, Colston has that great downfield speed we desperately need. Colston has great hands and speed. Garcon is a good receiver as well.

:helmet:

[ressecup1987]

We MAY be considering a lot of people. I love these fluff articles.

[Truant]

Just because two nickles cost you twelve and a half cents each does not mean they are worth a quarter together.

I just can't get over people really wanting to pay Garcon the money that he is going to require (which is more than 5 years, $35 MM). Brandon Lloyd 2.0.

I think you identified the issue in an earlier post... none of the options are ideal. All of the top options have question marks. Truth is no matter how much money we devote to finding a #1, unless Bowe is inexplicably not tagged, we aren't getting a #1 WR in free agency. You see Garcon being more or less the same player as Armstrong. I think they do similar things, but that Garcon is just far better at doing those things. You advocate Colston, but I think Paul/Hankerson will offer the size/possession skills that he brings to the table without the age or knee concerns.

If there was a lights out option and people we passing I could understand being flabbergasted. But when true quality supply is low and demand is high, concessions are made. You're willing to look past knee concerns, playing with Brees, a Sean Payton offense - which is consistently one of the most prolific aerial attacks each season. Other may be able to overlook Garcon being more of a complimentary piece, also playing with Manning, but being young and explosive.... which we don't have on the roster. (I feel Garcon is far better with the ball in his hands after the catch than Armstrong)

The argument would be who is capitulating more... you'll have your opinion, I'll have mine. But no matter what happens we're probably not going to look at the roster after FA and think the WR position is set.

[skinfan2k]

we have $49 million to spend. Moss is on his last legs and gaffney is no more than a 3rd on a good team. We need 2 legit Receivers

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

If we're going after a WR, I want it to be Colston. 1000+ yards in 5 of 6 seasons (and that odd season out was cut short due to injury. He was averaging more ypc than any other year) and at least 5 TDs every year. He's young (29 when the season starts). Go for it.[COLOR="Gold"]


I like Colston but he's not what this team needs imo.

He'd be another posession receiver on a team full those type receivers.

What we need is someone to stretch the field.

[Horton_Predator48]

https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/174982611238780928

Hines Ward released

Before someone asks. hell no!

[SkinsTillIDie]

I think the notion of #1 WR is overblown, but I definitely think Hankerson can be a highly productive starter, this season. Brandon Marshall was in a very similar boat as Hankerson, a big athletic receiver that fell in the draft, brought in by Shanahan in the middle rounds, sparse production his rookie year, and then massive production from then on out.

Hankerson, physically, compares almost exactly to Dwayne Bowe and Hakeem Nicks. True "#1 receivers" in most people's eyes. (From NFLDraftScout.com, a great resource)


Leonard Hankerson: 6-2 209; 40low 4.36, 40high 4.54; vertical jump 36; arm length 32 1/4; hand size 10 5/8

Dwayne Bowe: 6-2 221; 40low 4.49, 40high 4.61; vertical jump 33; arm length 33 5'8

Hakeem Nicks: 6-1 212; 40 yard dash 4.51; vertical jump 36; arm length 33 1/2; hand size 10 1/2


Grossman was recently quoted talking about how Hankerson's going to be "a star." Shanahan loves the guy and said it was "devastating" that he had to miss the rest of the season with an injury. Hank's a guy -- unlike Thomas or Kelly who showed potential with their physical attributes -- who stepped in and produced almost immediately. 8 catches for 106 yards in just his second start, without even playing the whole game. He made the 100+yard game look effortless

I see no reason why he shouldn't be starting this year. He's a near ideal threat in our deep-crossing routes and deep comeback routes, and he's a redzone target too. Having a guy on the other side of the field, be it Garcon or Meachem (my two favorites) to stretch the field will open up so much more space for Hank (and Gaffney) to operate. As well as Freddy Davis inside and Moss/Royal in the slot.

Though I can see Shanahan falling in love with a guy like Vincent Jackson, who could perhaps have a Plaxico Burress-like impact on this team like he did with a young Eli Manning -- giving the rook an enormous 6'5 target to throw to at the very end of a play, when the play breaks down... Hell, it could be a ridiculously lethal combination with Griffin's ability to extend plays in a Vick or Roethlisberger fashion

[elkabong82]

V-Jax, Gaffney, Hankerson, Paul, Royal, Austin looks good to me. You get a top guy, a reliable possession guy who knows offense, a potential number 1 guy, a great blocker w/ good possession potential and ups, a shifty speedster familar w/ coach, good in slot and return game, and a another young guy who is improving in the system, OR replace Austin w/ Aldrick Robinson for another young speedster w/ some height. Pretty sure I read elsewhere that if we bring in a #1 the Moss is out though.

[SkinsTillIDie]

Don't think there's any chance Austin makes the team... I'd imagine we draft a WR late and keep him inactive all season (until injuries strike). Robinson is a more likely candidate I think too. Besides that one catch, Austin hasn't done anything in 2 years in the NFL, and his competition will only be much more stiff.

It's easy to see why Moss might be released, but Shanahan always seems to hang on to his veterans longer than any of us fans anticipate or particularly care for :ols:

[ScottAH87]

https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/174982611238780928

Hines Ward released

Before someone asks. hell no!

Vinny would have spit out his drink from excitement and likely throw his arm out of socket from reaching for the phone too quickly

[authentic]

https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/174982611238780928

Hines Ward released

Before someone asks. hell no!

sorry, but i don't have 2 F's to give.. good riddence!!

[Darth Tater]

I really don't understand Vincent Jackson over Dwayne Bowe. Am I dense or something?

VJax won't be tagged. Bowe will either be tagged, which makes him not a FA for all intents, and, if not tagged, than its likely that he's not really that good.

[authentic]

V-Jax, Gaffney, Hankerson, Paul, Royal, Austin looks good to me. You get a top guy, a reliable possession guy who knows offense, a potential number 1 guy, a great blocker w/ good possession potential and ups, a shifty speedster familar w/ coach, good in slot and return game, and a another young guy who is improving in the system, OR replace Austin w/ Aldrick Robinson for another young speedster w/ some height. Pretty sure I read elsewhere that if we bring in a #1 the Moss is out though.

Imagine what our spread 4-man formation would look like.. :)

[Skins199021]

I think my perfect scenario for Receivers would be

Hankerson
Garcon (I think he is good, I mean he had a nice year with really bad QB play and is young)
Moss
Jeffery (Not in the 1st round, but I really like his size and ball skills, ultimate Red Zone guy, we need somthing like that)
Paul
A.J. Jenkins (In the 4th, I think this guy is a big sleeper, solid combine, solid stats)

I do not mind losing gaffney, Austin, Banks, Armstrong, we need an influx of youth and size to our WRs

[authentic]

I think my perfect scenario for Receivers would be

Hankerson
Garcon (I think he is good, I mean he had a nice year with really bad QB play and is young)
Moss
Jeffery (Not in the 1st round, but I really like his size and ball skills, ultimate Red Zone guy, we need somthing like that)
Paul
A.J. Jenkins (In the 4th, I think this guy is a big sleeper, solid combine, solid stats)

I do not mind losing gaffney, Austin, Banks, Armstrong, we need an influx of youth and size to our WRs

I've read that Garcon is looking for about $7 mill per...

[Rpredskins]

people criticized the panthers for re-signing steve smith. look how that turned out. He made newton better and newton made smith better.
We have the cap space. There's no reason not to sign the best guy available- Bowe imo but they might have somebody else in mind. No to manningham, hines ward, or any other mediocre WR. We already have 7 of those.

[Skins199021]

I've read that Garcon is looking for about $7 mill per...

Really if that were truly the case that would be a little high, but if he were to sign for 5 million per, I think that would be alright.

This offseason really needs to start haha

[SJValleySkinz]

people criticized the panthers for re-signing steve smith. look how that turned out. He made newton better and newton made smith better.
We have the cap space. There's no reason not to sign the best guy available- Bowe imo but they might have somebody else in mind. No to manningham, hines ward, or any other mediocre WR. We already have 7 of those.

Resigning a player you drafted and has been on your team for years is completely different than signing a high priced free agent. Not saying we shouldn't sign anyone but that's a bad comparison.

[SWFLSkins]

The undervaluing of Moss and Gaffney in this thread is disturbing. Gaffney proved he can be a great number two or three, Moss while slipping can still be productive in the slot and in this offense.

[RedskinsFanatic]

The undervaluing of Moss and Gaffney in this thread is disturbing. Gaffney proved he can be a great number two or three, Moss while slipping can still be productive in the slot and in this offense.

How do you think Moss has been 'slipping'? What QB has he had to throw him the ball consistently? Grossman?..Beck?...Campbell? Out of anyone on this planet, if we actually signed a quality QB, Moss will be the happiest person on the planet.

[SkinsTillIDie]

Moss has been 'slipping' every year since 2005.

Though that's not to say that he can't be a valuable role player in 2012

[Rpredskins]

Resigning a player you drafted and has been on your team for years is completely different than signing a high priced free agent. Not saying we shouldn't sign anyone but that's a bad comparison.

The comparison was to show that a good WR is hugely beneficial to a young QB. The fact that Smith was already on the team is irrelevant because Newton had never played with him before.

[illone]

Wish we could get Bowe, he's the best FA WR avail but sounds like KC will def franchise him, as they should.

[SJValleySkinz]

The comparison was to show that a good WR is hugely beneficial to a young QB. The fact that Smith was already on the team is irrelevant because Newton had never played with him before.

That's simply not true. There is a difference when the player has been on the team for almost 10 years and is one of their leaders, even if it was Newton's first year it's a completely different dynamic than bringing in a free agent.

[NoCalMike]

I really hope the hard pursuit of an elite WR has more to do with the fact that the coaches feel a rookie QB will benefit from a WR who is elite RIGHT NOW and not that they feel a guy like Hankerson will only be as good as #2.

I just don't want to see ANOTHER highly drafted WR turn out to be just ok.

[skinny21]

I would go

FA - Royal
Gaffney
Hankerson
Paul
Draft pick
FA- (Vjax is my preference).

I dont think we will get VJax though - I think his price will get too high given the suspension risk.

It's funny... Moss has clearly outplayed every receiver on our roster, but he certainly could still find himself the odd man out, depending on the FA signings of course. Honestly though? I don't see them cutting him. He's been more productive in (I believe) every season, and his down year he dealt with a broken hand - a pretty good reason for poor numbers and a higher percentage of drops (clutch or not). He's a loyal, professional, hardworking dude that runs great routes. Perhaps my perception of him doesn't jive with the FO and they let him go, but I really doubt it.

I will say that if they bring in certain guys, his age and the dynamics could mean he's gone... You've gotta have the balance of vets and youth, particularly in a rebuild.

[elkabong82]

I like Santana, fwiw, I was just passing along info I thought I recalled reading from insiders

[nnhvacjs]

Moss has been 'slipping' every year since 2005.


See Moss's Stats below.He had his 2nd best year in 2010, He only played 12 games last year and had Grossman and Beck. I think he still has something left...

Receiving Rushing
Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G YScm RRTD Fmb AV
2001 22 NYJ 83 5 0 2 40 20.0 0 33 0.4 8.0 1 -6 0 -6 -6.0 -1.2 0.2 34 0 0 0
2002 23 NYJ PR 83 15 1 30 433 14.4 4 47 2.0 28.9 7 48 0 14 6.9 3.2 0.5 481 4 2 7
2003 24 NYJ PR/WR 83 16 12 74 1105 14.9 10 65 4.6 69.1 10 67 0 25 6.7 4.2 0.6 1172 10 4 11
2004 25 NYJ PR/WR 83 15 14 45 838 18.6 5 69 3.0 55.9 6 18 0 12 3.0 1.2 0.4 856 5 2 8
2005* 26 WAS WR 89 16 16 84 1483 17.7 9 78 5.3 92.7 3 -3 0 3 -1.0 -0.2 0.2 1480 9 3 14
2006 27 WAS WR 89 14 14 55 790 14.4 6 68 3.9 56.4 7 82 0 35 11.7 5.9 0.5 872 6 2 8
2007 28 WAS WR 89 14 14 61 808 13.2 3 49 4.4 57.7 3 13 0 11 4.3 0.9 0.2 821 3 2 7
2008 29 WAS WR 89 16 16 79 1044 13.2 6 67 4.9 65.3 1 27 0 27 27.0 1.7 0.1 1071 6 1 10
2009 30 WAS WR 89 16 16 70 902 12.9 3 59 4.4 56.4 2 8 0 6 4.0 0.5 0.1 910 3 2 7
2010 31 WAS WR 89 16 16 93 1115 12.0 6 56 5.8 69.7 5 -6 0 7 -1.2 -0.4 0.3 1109 6 3 7
2011 32 WAS WR 89 12 12 46 584 12.7 4 49 3.8 48.7 584 4 0 4

[texasthunder]

V-Jax, Gaffney, Hankerson, Paul, Royal, Austin looks good to me. You get a top guy, a reliable possession guy who knows offense, a potential number 1 guy, a great blocker w/ good possession potential and ups, a shifty speedster familar w/ coach, good in slot and return game, and a another young guy who is improving in the system, OR replace Austin w/ Aldrick Robinson for another young speedster w/ some height. Pretty sure I read elsewhere that if we bring in a #1 the Moss is out though.

Agree 100 percent.
Would love to see VJax in a skins uniform.
Of course that would mean I would have to buy a RGIII and a Vjax jersey"s.

[Horton_Predator48]

I would think Royal would be a target sInce Shanny drafted him. He would be a low figure guy which is nice, but would not be a true #1 receiver. I like Colston for his size.

[skinny21]

Edit: My bad. After seeing your later post(s) Martin, I think we're sort of on the same page.

Still think they end up keeping Moss though. I believe he'd have been over 1,000 again without the hand issue last year. Moss, Gaffney and VJax would be a serious Wr threat. I'd certainly take Moss over most other team's 3rd or even 2nd receiver (though age is definitely a factor).

[elkabong82]

I like Colston for his size.

But how do you feel about him as a football player?

ba-zing!

[Fight4RGIII]

I just hope VJ is more consistent if he comes to the Skins. He is the definition of boom or bust. I called him wack-a-mole. Could be the system he was in or lack of targets in certain games but he'd have HUGE games and then be a no show the next week too often

[Horton_Predator48]

But how do you feel about him as a football player?

ba-zing!

Oh I like him as football player too :)

I know he had an injury the year before but it seems like he recovered this year.

[zoony]

Does the WP have a team of monkeys working round the clock nowadays? That's some hard hitting journalism right there

Headlines still in cue:
REDSKINS MAY PURSUE FREE AGENT LINEBACKERS
REDSKINS MAY PURSUE FREE AGENT CORNERBACKS
REDSKINS MAY PURSUE FREE AGENT OFFENSIVE LINEMAN
REDSKINS MAY BE GOOD NEXT YEAR
REDSKINS MAY BE AVERAGE NEXT YEAR

[SWFLSkins]

How do you think Moss has been 'slipping'? What QB has he had to throw him the ball consistently? Grossman?..Beck?...Campbell? Out of anyone on this planet, if we actually signed a quality QB, Moss will be the happiest person on the planet.

Well the drops is what I meant by slipping, but I certainly agree with your point. And I think you recognize that I am stating that I would like nothing more than to include Moss and Gaffney as the other two starters, with a shiny new big target outside.

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

Bowe is the best out there right now, but KC would be crazy not to franchise him, I like V jax and wanted us to draft him coming out of N.Colorado, but I don't think we should break the bank to get him, I would pass on Garcon, I would also like to get rid of Moss his hands are just to unreliable, for every nice play he makes he drops an easy one if we can't fill the slot in house then look to Eddie Royal he would replace Moss nicely at a reasonable price.

If we don't lose most of our picks to move up for a QB then we have an opportunity to possibly move down and go after what will be a lot of potentially #1 type big bodied WR's, this draft is loaded with huge wideouts who can run. There is a lot to be said about trading down in this draft and really build what could become a scary team, the talent is in this draft now we just have to play it right?

[Blue Collar Skins]

The undervaluing of Moss and Gaffney in this thread is disturbing. Gaffney proved he can be a great number two or three, Moss while slipping can still be productive in the slot and in this offense. I totally agree. Gaffney was huge for us this past year and I have always loved Moss and what he has done for us.

[jivelikenice]

I totally agree. Gaffney was huge for us this past year and I have always loved Moss and what he has done for us.

I don't know anyone who doesn't appreciate Moss's contributions but he'll be 33 before next season and is cmoign off his worst season. If the Steelers can move on from Hines then we should be able to move on from 89....

[Blue Collar Skins]

I don't know anyone who doesn't appreciate Moss's contributions but he'll be 33 before next season and is cmoign off his worst season. If the Steelers can move on from Hines then we should be able to move on from 89.... Ward is one month away from 36 so they kept him for 14 years. Moss still has a little gas left in the tank.

[DogofWar1]

Does the WP have a team of monkeys working round the clock nowadays? That's some hard hitting journalism right there

Headlines still in cue:
REDSKINS MAY PURSUE FREE AGENT LINEBACKERS
REDSKINS MAY PURSUE FREE AGENT CORNERBACKS
REDSKINS MAY PURSUE FREE AGENT OFFENSIVE LINEMAN
REDSKINS MAY BE GOOD NEXT YEAR
REDSKINS MAY BE AVERAGE NEXT YEAR

Wait, you mean we're not pursuing kickers?

And I guess we're going to be average or good next year, and not bad. Sweet.

[windsofcreation]

But how do you feel about him as a football player?

ba-zing!

Considering the fact that he is clearly the Saints' best and most consistent wide receiver, always making clutch catches, I would label him a terrific all-around football player.

He lacks breakaway speed, but if we acquire him, we'll have an automatic target on 3rd downs for the next 5 years.

[MartinC]

It's funny... Moss has clearly outplayed every receiver on our roster, but he certainly could still find himself the odd man out, depending on the FA signings of course. Honestly though? I don't see them cutting him. He's been more productive in (I believe) every season, and his down year he dealt with a broken hand - a pretty good reason for poor numbers and a higher percentage of drops (clutch or not). He's a loyal, professional, hardworking dude that runs great routes. Perhaps my perception of him doesn't jive with the FO and they let him go, but I really doubt it.

I will say that if they bring in certain guys, his age and the dynamics could mean he's gone... You've gotta have the balance of vets and youth, particularly in a rebuild.

I really like Moss. In his time here he along with Cooley and Portis was the offense. Heck just for that game against Dallas back in 2005 he has a place in Redskins history and our hearts and he has been consistently productive since.

But he is getting older and is no longer the deep threat he was in his prime. He still runs very good routes and can separate but again not the way he used to. I would say he still has a couple of years in him as #3 receiver but if we sign both Vjax and Royal and bring back Gaffney and Hankerson there might not be a spot for him. He is not getting paid a stupid amount - I think he signed a 3 year deal for around $15M total with $6M guranteed so he might stick around for another year but the clock is ticking.

[issapunk]

Bowe is best for us and then Vincent Jackson. If we don't get a young qb *cough* RG3 *cough*, then there's really no point in signing a guy like Jackson who will be 30 or 31 when we have our franchise guy. Bowe would be great no matter what. If he isn't franchised, we need to try to get him at any cost.

Out of all the receivers in NO, I trust Colston and Graham as having the most talent. The rest of them are productive because of Brees and because there are so many options. I think Colston should be our target, after Jackson and Bowe, if possible.

Royal I like because he is young, Shanahan knows him, and he seems to fit the profile of guys we're looking for. He's hungry and the right age. I bet he would thrive in this offense, but no one will be able to become elite until we get that #1 true deep threat receiver. Kyle was so successful in Houston because of Andre Johnson and his ability to open up the rest of the field and still be productive while taking on double teams. We need someone like that for this offense to really open up.

[SkinsTillIDie]

Santana Moss' yards per reception has decreased every successive year from 2005 until now -- except for a .7 ypc increase between 2010 and 2011, though with a significant decline in overall production. He hasn't been a legitimate deep threat in years (no matter how many times we send him deep). Though, again, he's still got value in the slot. He's an exceptional route runner, gets in and out of breaks almost as well as he ever has, and he's the consummate professional. Shanahan places enormous value on such players.

In any case, it's a requisite for any good offense to have at least 4 good, consistently effective wide receivers at any given time -- the Packers are the ideal example. Even when injuries strike, they've got another guy that can step in. This is why I think Eddie Royal absolutely has a spot on this team, regardless of how many other vets we have.

Vincent Jackson will be for RGIII (knock on wood) what Plaxico Burress was for Eli Manning -- the enormous target for him to throw it up there when a play breaks down. Burress was 28 in his first year with the Giants, Jackson will be 29. Both are 6'5, around ~230 lbs. Though Jackson's got 6 inches more on his vertical.

Please, forget all the talk about #1 vs #2 receivers -- Jackson and Hankerson can both be extremely dynamic outside receivers and tremendous red zone threats. Moss and Royal have the potential to be highly productive, efficient slot receivers. The dependable Gaffney can do a bit of everything. While we groom Niles Paul, Aldrick Robinson, (draft pick?) for larger roles down the road. ... and of course, we've got the playmaking of Fred Davis, and hopefully Chris Cooley coming back in good health.

This is a hell of a receiving corps, a far cry from the days when we were employing Joey Galloway and Roydell Williams

[ddub52]

If we get Garcon or Wayne, the Manning rumors are going to heat up even more

[Missouri_Skins_Fan]

Love some of these FA prospects available.

But if we can't land Luck or RG3...what's the point?
Seriously...Who cares who's available.

We'll just be having some throwaway QB here. tossing them the ball...(IE Grossman,Flynn,Orton, etc)
SSDD imo...

That's why it's apparent, we get a deal done IMMEDIATELY for RG3(Luck), then we can go Hog Mad Cow crazy for a FA WR's.

We get the right piece and build around our QB.

Honestly..unless we land a Franchise QB, this thread is absolutely useless and pointless.
We'll still suck....just might be a little better at the WR position.

This is my 1st and last post in this thread, until we trade up to #1 or #2 or draft RG3 or Luck.

Because without our QB, all this crap is just eye candy to keep the casual Redskins fan happy, until we're sitting at 5-11 or 6-10 next yr and figuring out who to blame and what went wrong.

And probably coach searching as well...that'll be a new thread we can all post in.
My patience isn't thin..
It's ran out!

Get me a damn Franchise QB..NOW!
I'll worry about wideout later...

[D-Day]

Moss is the perfect slot receiver and it only saves us 1.5 million by cutting him this year (can you replace him for 1.5 million?). He stays.

If Manning is signed you can count on Wayne or Garcon on the team.
Eddie Royal is also a value pick up.
Vincent Jackson will break the FA WR contract record this year. We have a lot of cap space but so does a lot of teams. He is getting paid big, I hope it isn't us.
Bowe will be tagged

The draft does have a lot of talent, if we keep or multiply our picks we can pick up one or two big fast wr's this year in the draft.

[s0crates]

I like Marques Colston. I imagine the Saints will re-sign him, but if they do not, I think he is the one to get.

Unlike some of the other free agent receivers out there, Colston has the type of attitude you look for in a player. He is one of those guys who simply flips the ball to the ref when he scores a touchdown. I think part of why he is underrated is because he does not call attention to himself.

He doesn't get all the attention off the field, but he does get double-teams on it, even on a team that is stacked with WRs. He is big, fast, runs good routes, and has great hands.

Also, I think you know what you are getting with him, a guy who has had five 1,000 yard seasons in his first 6 years, had some injuries, but consistently produced on the field.

Like I said, I think the Saints will find a way to re-sign him, but if they do not I would love Bruce and Shanny to make him an offer.

Here are his highlights from last season :


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bjh4i_FB-4

[Tom10Y]

Regarding the topic of this thread...http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/822078/nos.gif:ols:

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

I like Marques Colston. I imagine the Saints will re-sign him, but if they do not, I think he is the one to get.

Unlike some of the other free agent receivers out there, Colston has the type of attitude you look for in a player. He is one of those guys who simply flips the ball to the ref when he scores a touchdown. I think part of why he is underrated is because he does not call attention to himself.

He doesn't get all the attention off the field, but he does get double-teams on it, even on a team that is stacked with WRs. He is big, fast, runs good routes, and has great hands.


Actually, he's not fast....which is why I'd pass on him.

[LD0506]

Does the WP have a team of monkeys working round the clock nowadays? That's some hard hitting journalism right there

Headlines still in cue:
REDSKINS MAY PURSUE FREE AGENT LINEBACKERS
REDSKINS MAY PURSUE FREE AGENT CORNERBACKS
REDSKINS MAY PURSUE FREE AGENT OFFENSIVE LINEMAN
REDSKINS MAY BE GOOD NEXT YEAR
REDSKINS MAY BE AVERAGE NEXT YEAR

You forgot the old reliable: REDSKINS STILL SUFFER FROM INTERFERING OWNER one. :ols:

[s0crates]

Actually, he's not fast....which is why I'd pass on him.
He runs a 4.5, which is pretty fast, certainly fast enough.

For comparison, Vincent Jackson runs a 4.46, and Pierre Garcon runs a 4.48.

There are better ways to measure a wide receiver than that though. We must consider things like size, hands, route-running, football IQ, etc. A better measure than 40 times might be productivity. Neither Jackson nor Garcon has anything approaching Colston's productivity. Colston has five 1,000 yard seasons, compared to Jackson's three, and Garcon's zero.

[redskindan07]

Any of the 3 would be an instant upgrade over what we currently have. 2 of the 3 would be amazing!!

[TheGreek1973]

Man i want to be a fly on the wall when we approach some of these receivers. No way we can say to them, we got Grossman and Beck to throw you the ball...lol. i bet it will be we are moving heaven and earth to get RGIII or Manning is ours, no one beats the Danny on high profile FA moves...LOL

[skinzwiz]

He runs a 4.5, which is pretty fast, certainly fast enough.

For comparison, Vincent Jackson runs a 4.46, and Pierre Garcon runs a 4.48.

There are better ways to measure a wide receiver than that though. We must consider things like size, hands, route-running, football IQ, etc. A better measure than 40 times might be productivity. Neither Jackson nor Garcon has anything approaching Colston's productivity. Colston has five 1,000 yard seasons, compared to Jackson's three, and Garcon's zero.
I think most everyone would tell you that Vincent Jackson is more intriguing than Marques Colston. In V. Jax's defense about the 1,000 yard seasons, he did just have a long holdout that prevented one and besides him and Antonio Gates, there hasn't been another decent receiving option in that offense. Floyd has emerged a little here recently though.

[pjfootballer]

Considering the fact that he is clearly the Saints' best and most consistent wide receiver, always making clutch catches, I would label him a terrific all-around football player.

He lacks breakaway speed, but if we acquire him, we'll have an automatic target on 3rd downs for the next 5 years.

And endzone catches. He makes some pretty sick grabs in the endzone.

---------- Post added March-1st-2012 at 10:42 AM ----------


Love some of these FA prospects available.

But if we can't land Luck or RG3...what's the point?
Seriously...Who cares who's available.

We'll just be having some throwaway QB here. tossing them the ball...(IE Grossman,Flynn,Orton, etc)
SSDD imo...

That's why it's apparent, we get a deal done IMMEDIATELY for RG3(Luck), then we can go Hog Mad Cow crazy for a FA WR's.

We get the right piece and build around our QB.

Honestly..unless we land a Franchise QB, this thread is absolutely useless and pointless.
We'll still suck....just might be a little better at the WR position.

This is my 1st and last post in this thread, until we trade up to #1 or #2 or draft RG3 or Luck.

Because without our QB, all this crap is just eye candy to keep the casual Redskins fan happy, until we're sitting at 5-11 or 6-10 next yr and figuring out who to blame and what went wrong.

And probably coach searching as well...that'll be a new thread we can all post in.
My patience isn't thin..
It's ran out!

Get me a damn Franchise QB..NOW!
I'll worry about wideout later...

But free agency is before the draft, so even if we don't get a QB this year (which I really want) I think we will still have added some good pieces in free agency. VJax/Colston, Royal, Hank and Cooley coming back could even help (shudders the thought) Rex.

---------- Post added March-1st-2012 at 10:49 AM ----------


Actually, he's not fast....which is why I'd pass on him.

Willie Gault was fast, just saying. Colston is fast enough and there is more to being a receiver than just "go route" speed.

[skinsarel33t]

Wit the steelers letting mike Wallace walk he should be our target

[NattyBo]

Wit the steelers letting mike Wallace walk he should be our target

They're still tendering him. Where are we going to get a first round pick to give to the Steelers for him?

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Willie Gault was fast, just saying. Colston is fast enough and there is more to being a receiver than just "go route" speed.

Yes, there is more to being a receiver than just being fast.

But with that being said, speed is a critical element in any sucessful offense for the most part.

And we currently don't have it.



I like Colston. He's solid/very good.

But he doesn't (imo) provide a different skill set than we already have on the team.

Colston in terms of skill set (not production) is a younger, better version of Jabbar Gaffney.

As I said in another post: He'd be a possession receiver on a team filled with possession receivers".




Now otoh, guys like Vincent Jackson, Robert Meachem etc. would provide a whole different element to our team.

Something we're consistently lacking....SPEED and explosive plays.

[pjfootballer]

Yes, there is more to being a receiver than just being fast.

But with that being said, speed is a critical element in any sucessful offense for the most part.

And we currently don't have it.

I like Colston. He's solid/very good.

But he doesn't (imo) provide a different skill set than we already have on the team.

Colston in terms of skill set (not production) is a younger, better version of Jabbar Gaffney.

As I said in another post: He'd be a possession receiver on a team filled with possession receivers".


Now otoh, guys like Vincent Jackson, Robert Meachem etc. would provide a whole different element to our team.

Something we're consistently lacking....SPEED and explosive plays.

Mecham averaged 15.5 a catch, Colston 14.9, Jackson 18.9. I realize Colston is not a deep theat, but he can get deep like Art Monk could on occasion and I feel that his intermediate receptions (10-25 yards) will help us move the chains. I agree that we're lacking in explosive plays, so that's why you sign Eddie Royal. I think it will be dependent on how much we're willing to pay also. I know Mike likes Jackson and believe you me, I wouldn't be disappointed with either Jackson or Colston.

And FWIW the ability to get off the line is important when talking about a guys speed. Receivers don't always have a clear path to run a go route.

---------- Post added March-1st-2012 at 11:53 AM ----------


They're still tendering him. Where are we going to get a first round pick to give to the Steelers for him?

People shouting popular names and not actually knowing the situation. I can do it, watch....

Hey, let's sign Tom Brady, because he's, you know, good and all!

Let's sign Ray Rice, because he's, you know, a beast!

[blchizzleke]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7633206/pittsburgh-steelers-franchise-wr-mike-wallace-source-says

Steelers may not put the franchise tag on Mike Wallace. If not, he would be a great guy to pursue. He is young, not a character concern, and has elite big play ability. If we get RG3 we will need a receiver who can get open deep and I do not think many, if any, receivers caught more deep balls than Mike Wallace the last couple of years.

Forgot he was a restricted free agent. Nevermind. Not worth our first round pick, obviously.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7633206/pittsburgh-steelers-franchise-wr-mike-wallace-source-says

Steelers may not put the franchise tag on Mike Wallace. If not, he would be a great guy to pursue. He is young, not a character concern, and has elite big play ability. If we get RG3 we will need a receiver who can get open deep and I do not think many, if any, receivers caught more deep balls than Mike Wallace the last couple of years.

Mike Wallace will be a restricted free agent....meaning that any teams that signs him will forfeit thier 1st round pick.

Otherwise, I would love to have him.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Love some of these FA prospects available.

But if we can't land Luck or RG3...what's the point?
Seriously...Who cares who's available.

Well the point would be to upgrade a somewhat weak position. I would assume we'd sign whoever it is to more than a one-year deal which makes your "if we don't get a QB this year, what's the point" point a little bizarre to me.

[bird_1972]

They're still tendering him. Where are we going to get a first round pick to give to the Steelers for him?

Nowhere. He won't be a Skin.

[DogofWar1]

Mike Wallace will be a restricted free agent....meaning that any teams that signs him will forfeit thier 1st round pick.

Otherwise, I would love to have him.

Yeah, Mike Wallace shouldn't really be discussed in the same breath as Colston, VJax, and Bowe. Completely different situation, RFA and UFA.

I think there's still plenty of reason to upgrade WRs this offseason, even if we don't upgrade QB, because one way or another, we're going to have a new "expected franchise" QB starting come, at the very latest, week 6 of the 2013 season (I figure if we miss RGIII we're going to either get someone this year to start next year, or get a franchise QB via the draft next year; and if we miss out through 2013, we'll have bigger problems than getting a QB, like rebuilding FedEx after the inevitable riots). So even if VJax or Colston only have 4 or 5 years left, we could still get 2-4 years out of them with a new QB, which I think would be worth it. They would be a very robust stopgap while we snagged guys for the young QB to throw to as he's entering his 3rd or 4th year.

[Rpredskins]

That's simply not true. There is a difference when the player has been on the team for almost 10 years and is one of their leaders, even if it was Newton's first year it's a completely different dynamic than bringing in a free agent.

I disagree. Steve Smith helped Cam Newton by catching the ball and making plays. The leadership and experience may have been important, but ultimately a young QB needs somebody to throw the ball to whether it is a team veteran or somebody new.

[Oldskool]

Yeah, Mike Wallace shouldn't really be discussed in the same breath as Colston, VJax, and Bowe. Completely different situation, RFA and UFA..

If the Skins were picking anywhere between 26-32nd in the 1st round and had the cap space they currently have, I'd totally be in favor of signing him to a contract that Pitt couldn't match.

That's obviously not the case, so there isn't any need to dream of that scenario.

[bird_1972]

I disagree. Steve Smith helped Cam Newton by catching the ball and making plays. The leadership and experience may have been important, but ultimately a young QB needs somebody to throw the ball to whether it is a team veteran or somebody new.

Santana Moss and Gaffney can provide that.

In the meantime, we'll bring up some young guys. Hopefully one will be from this years draft.

[morpheusmeyers]

Yeah, Mike Wallace shouldn't really be discussed in the same breath as Colston, VJax, and Bowe. Completely different situation, RFA and UFA.

ESPN confirmed on their 4:00pm NFL show today that Wallace will in fact be tendered, not franchised, and that Desean Jackson will be tagged.

[Alcoholic Zebra]

Santana Moss and Gaffney can provide that.

In the meantime, we'll bring up some young guys. Hopefully one will be from this years draft.

Colston is a legitimate red zone threat, he can really go up can fight for it. Gaffney's more grounded and Moss just can't do that. I'm definitely in favor of Colston regardless, he'll definitely help us score.

[Laxpunk2006]

I agree that we're lacking in explosive plays, so that's why you sign Eddie Royal.



I don't see Eddie Royal as a guy that adds explosiveness to an offense. Not only is his career average pretty poor at 10.2 ypc (10.8 was his best season, under Mike) but he lacks explosive plays.

In 206 receptions Royal had 18 20+ yard receptions and 3 40+. In comparison Anthony Armstrong had 15 20+ receptions and 7 40+ in 2010 alone on only 44 receptions.

Royal isn't a deep threat nor is he a guy that is going to get you big yards after the catch. He's an undersized possession reciever.

[maskedsuperstar]

I don't see Eddie Royal as a guy that adds explosiveness to an offense. Not only is his career average pretty poor at 10.2 ypc (10.8 was his best season, under Mike) but he lacks explosive plays.

In 206 receptions Royal had 18 20+ yard receptions and 3 40+. In comparison Anthony Armstrong had 15 20+ receptions and 7 40+ in 2010 alone on only 44 receptions.

Royal isn't a deep threat nor is he a guy that is going to get you big yards after the catch. He's an undersized possession reciever.

He had a real good season under Mike. After Mike got fired, he fell off the map. Don't think it was his fault.

[Never4Get21]

Like I have said many times, Shanny has told his staff that Royal will be here for this season. That being said I would like to have him paired up with one of the following 1. VJax 2. SJ13 3. Colston 4. Garcon. I would be happy with any of these combos being brought in in FA. Then if Hank is healthy enough and good enough to start outside along with one of the big name FAs we would have the ability to use Moss (who I hope is back) in the slot where he would be deadly or Royal in the slot. Even if Gaffney is our number 2 with one of the 2 speedsters in the slot along with our new number 1, whoever our new QB is should have a pretty good receiving corps to throw to. If somehow we can add Carl Nicks (looks like he could be a FA since its likely saints will have to tag Brees) our passing game would be pretty damn good as long as whatever QB we get is as good as they are supposed to be.

[Oldskool]

Looking less and less likely that Colston will be tagged.

Drew Brees - QB - Saints

According to Yahoo! Sports' Jason Cole, the Saints and free agent Drew Brees remain "roughly $5 million a year apart" on a new contract.

That's a lot of ground to make up by Monday's franchise tag deadline. The Saints could free up $5 million by restructuring Will Smith's contract, and another $11 million by cutting MLB Jonathan Vilma and DT Sedrick Ellis. If the Saints are forced to use the exclusive franchise tag on Brees, they run the risk of losing both Marques Colston and Carl Nicks.
Related: Jonathan Vilma, Sedrick Ellis

Source: Yahoo! Sports Mar 1 - 6:30 PM

[RWJ]

Looking less and less likely that Colston will be tagged.

Drew Brees - QB - Saints

According to Yahoo! Sports' Jason Cole, the Saints and free agent Drew Brees remain "roughly $5 million a year apart" on a new contract.

That's a lot of ground to make up by Monday's franchise tag deadline. The Saints could free up $5 million by restructuring Will Smith's contract, and another $11 million by cutting MLB Jonathan Vilma and DT Sedrick Ellis. If the Saints are forced to use the exclusive franchise tag on Brees, they run the risk of losing both Marques Colston and Carl Nicks.
Related: Jonathan Vilma, Sedrick Ellis

Source: Yahoo! Sports Mar 1 - 6:30 PM



Think they would tag Nicks before Colston. I'm with you though, Colston will cost less than VJ and is solid every year.

[Oldskool]

Think they would tag Nicks before Colston. I'm with you though, Colston will cost less than VJ and is solid every year.

Yeah I said before that the tag would be used on Brees first, Nicks second and Colston last. I'm not sold on Colston staying healthy enough to warrant signing him to a contract though.

[RWJ]

Yeah I said before that the tag would be used on Brees first, Nicks second and Colston last. I'm not sold on Colston staying healthy enough to warrant signing him to a contract though.

Bowe would've been the grand prize but between VJ (1 violation away from a year suspension) and Colston, I'd take Colston.

[Rufus T Firefly]

Bowe would've been the grand prize but between VJ (1 violation away from a year suspension) and Colston, I'd take Colston.

Of course, Bowe is one violation away from that suspension, too.

[RWJ]

Of course, Bowe is one violation away from that suspension, too.

RTF, I didn't know this. Another reason I'd take Colston.

[bird_1972]

RTF, I didn't know this. Another reason I'd take Colston.
He is injury prone.

It's a bit of a concern.

[Stophovr6]

I never watched Garcon very closely, only play I remember was his ridiculous one hand catch against the Skins. Is he really a #1 or just a good receiver that caught balls thrown by a great QB?

[Epochalypse]

I never watched Garcon very closely, only play I remember was his ridiculous one hand catch against the Skins. Is he really a #1 or just a good receiver that caught balls thrown by a great QB?

Garcon from what I've seen has questionable hands, but he's flashed potential. That being said, it's always been as a #2 or lower option in Indy, with Wayne and Dallas Clark there.

[grego]

garcon may be better than any WR we have, but at 6', i'd kinda like a big guy we need a big redzone target. we have a few shorter guys already.

[Laxpunk2006]

He had a real good season under Mike. After Mike got fired, he fell off the map. Don't think it was his fault.

Well as I mentioned in my post, even under Mike Shanahan he averaged 10.8 yards per catch. He had 8 20+ yard plays that season and 2 40+. 47% of his catches were for first downs.

Our very own Jabar Gaffney had 14 20+ yard catches and 1 40+ catch this season and has been labeled by our fan base as a nothing more than a #2 posession reciever. 73% of Gaffney's receptions were for first downs.

If you want to compare them within a single season and offense we can look to 2010. Royal had 59 total catches and 3 touchdowns. 8 were 20+ yards, 1 was for 40+. 54% of his catches were for first downs and he averaged 10.6 yards per catch.

Gaffney had 65 total catches and 2 touchdowns. 12 went for 20+ and 1 went for 40+. 65% went for first downs and he averaged 13.5 yards per catch.

Obviously this thread isn't about Gaffney vs. Royal but my point is that within Mike Shanahan's offense or otherwise, Eddie Royal is not an explosive player. Looking at the numbers in more detail he isn't even particularly great at picking up first downs. I was luke warm on him going into this thread. Now I have even less interest. I'd personally rather see more of Austin/Robinson, neither of whom I am a particular fan of.

[Fight4RGIII]

Didn't Garcon put up career numbers without Manning?

[Stophovr6]

Didn't Garcon put up career numbers without Manning?

Seems he did, but he also had similar numbers to Gaffney. I just think if we're going to get a guy in FA, shouldn't we go after a surefire number 1?

[Rufus T Firefly]

Didn't Garcon put up career numbers without Manning?

He was much better this year than he had been in the past, not having trouble with drops or mental mistakes.

I'm not one to yell "contract year", as I think that gets ridiculously overused by fans, but when a guy struggles with focus and consistency for his career and suddenly seems to put it all together the year before hitting FA, it would make me cautious about signing him for big money.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Didn't Garcon put up career numbers without Manning?

Yes.

2011: 70 rec, 947 yds, 6 TDs.

[Fight4RGIII]

Seems he did, but he also had similar numbers to Gaffney. I just think if we're going to get a guy in FA, shouldn't we go after a surefire number 1?

Yeah I agree with you. I just think he is pretty quality and not a product of Manning. I'd make a strong push for Colston/Vjax if we are going hard after a number 1. No one else if really worth throwing a bunch of money at to me.

[s0crates]

Colston is one of those high-character guys we always say way want.

I like a guy who says things like:


"I'm never going to enjoy being in the limelight," 6-foot, 5-inch Colston said. "If it's for a good cause, like the community work we do, I don't mind because you never know what kind of positive effect you'll have on someone. But as far as stuff for my own personal recognition, I don't do that."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?page=hotread12/Marques%20Colston

[Laxpunk2006]

Interesting article from PFF from 2010:

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/05/23/drop-percentage/

From 2008-2010 Colston, Garcon, and Bowe all ranked very poorly in terms of drop percentages. Our very own Santana Moss ranked poorly as well.

Maybe all of these "Colston catches everything" comments aren't as accurate as we originally thought.

[J-bomb]

So according to those stats the wrs we should bring in, thats had good hands an dropped the least amount of passes the last 3 yrs are royal an vjax.

[Laxpunk2006]

So according to those stats the wrs we should bring in, thats had good hands an dropped the least amount of passes the last 3 yrs are royal an vjax.

Well as the stats I put up earlier showed, Royal doesn't add the explosive plays we're looking for in an offense. His hands seem to be great but he doesn't make big plays or even pick up a high percentage of first downs.

[J-bomb]

Well as the stats I put up earlier showed, Royal doesn't add the explosive plays we're looking for in an offense. His hands seem to be great but he doesn't make big plays or even pick up a high percentage of first downs. He did when shanny was calling plays! So does that mean all of sudden he cant or is there another factor, maybe mcdaniels or tebow at the helm?

[grego]

Colston is one of those high-character guys we always say way want.

I like a guy who says things like:



http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?page=hotread12/Marques%20Colston

good stuff. love his size and now i love his attitude. i believe hes from harrisburg, so i doubt he'd mind playing close to home.

the only question about him is staying healthy.

[s0crates]

Interesting article from PFF from 2010:

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/05/23/drop-percentage/

From 2008-2010 Colston, Garcon, and Bowe all ranked very poorly in terms of drop percentages. Our very own Santana Moss ranked poorly as well.

Maybe all of these "Colston catches everything" comments aren't as accurate as we originally thought.
Yeah, but that is 2008-2010 combined. That same website has him as the 4th best in the league in terms of drop percentage in 2011.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/01/17/drop-rate-2011-which-receivers-are-dropping-the-ball/


Other names in the top five include two soon to be free agents; Marques Colston and Reggie Wayne. Colston, by virtue of having more receptions finishes just above Wayne, as both men dropped just the two passes. There may be plenty of concerns about both men (health for Colston and age for Wayne) but you needn’t worry about their hands, with both proving reliable targets for their quarterbacks. That is especially impressive given the traffic that Colston often has to deal with over the middle for New Orleans.

Maybe he does have good hands after all. ;)

[Laxpunk2006]

He did when shanny was calling plays! So does that mean all of sudden he cant or is there another factor, maybe mcdaniels or tebow at the helm?




Go back and read post #164. Royal's "good" season with Shanahan was far worse than Jabar Gaffney's season in 2011. The only thing "good" about it were his number of catches and I suppose drop percentage. Less thatn 50% of his catches were for first downs and his average yards per catch was a very low 10.8. That happens to be the highest of his career.



Yeah, but that is 2008-2010 combined. That same website has him as the 4th best in the league in terms of drop percentage in 2011.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/01/17/drop-rate-2011-which-receivers-are-dropping-the-ball/



Maybe he does have good hands after all. ;)

I read that as well, Colston had a great 2011. I didn't mean to say that Colston has particularly bad hands, just trying to add more facts to the discussion.

[J-bomb]

Lax you said royal doesnt provide the explosive plays we want. That year he had with shanny he was beast i remember watching him shake dbs an toast our very own dhall that year. We have no wr on our roster thats ever done that, EVER (in the last 15 years)! Dont you remember that or am i thinking of someone else? Im not talking about stats I mean him abusing dbs an taking simple out routes to the house.

[rk3025]

**** it, lets get all three!
I'm with you ! Let's get all THREE on the 13th.

[Stophovr6]

Lax you said royal doesnt provide the explosive plays we want. That year he had with shanny he was beast i remember watching him shake dbs an toast our very own dhall that year. We have no wr on our roster thats ever done that, EVER (in the last 15 years)! Dont you remember that or am i thinking of someone else? Im not talking about stats I mean him abusing dbs an taking simple out routes to the house.


Just to add to this Royal had 5 receiving tds his rookie year with Shanny, looks like one was for 93 yards! In the last 3 years, only 4 tds. He needs to come back to this system.

[Prototype]

Im probably the only one here who would like DeSean Jackson. #takethetopoffthedefense

Commence hate posts.

[Coolio47]

Im probably the only one here who would like DeSean Jackson. #takethetopoffthedefense

Commence hate posts.

Irrelevant since the Eagles just used the franchise tag on him today.

[Laxpunk2006]

Lax you said royal doesnt provide the explosive plays we want. That year he had with shanny he was beast i remember watching him shake dbs an toast our very own dhall that year. We have no wr on our roster thats ever done that, EVER (in the last 15 years)! Dont you remember that or am i thinking of someone else? Im not talking about stats I mean him abusing dbs an taking simple out routes to the house.

Did you forget Santana's 2005 season? He made a living turning screen passes into big plays that year.

Royal did well against Hall that season, but so did every other WR he faced. Hall was awful in Oakland.

You can say that he abused db's and took out routes to the house all you want, but simple stats tell otherwise. Royal caught a ton of passes in 2008 but the vast majority were for very short gains. 10.8 yards per catch is pathetic for a WR. His sub 50% first down on catches is awful as well.

Royal may have the speed and ability to generate big plays, but up to this point in his career he hasn't done it. As I stated earlier in this thread, Anthony Armstrong had more 40+ yard plays in 2010 and nearly as many 20+ yard plays than Eddie Royal has in his career.

In comparison to Royal's 10.8 ypc, Sanatana averaged 12.7 in 2011 having a "bad" season. He also had 10 20+ yard plays, more than Royal has ever had in a single season. Terrance Austin averaged 11.4 this year (12.3 career).

In fact to make this simpler here are the Redskins pass catchers that averaged less yards per catch in 2011 than Royal did in his best year (2008), Brandon Banks and Chris Cooley. Even Logan Paulsen has a higher career average.

[rk3025]

Colston is one of those high-character guys we always say way want.

I like a guy who says things like:



http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?page=hotread12/Marques%20Colston
Let's go for the playoffs and pick the Saints players Brees,Colston and Nicks.
Like Coach Allen would do.

[Enter Apotheosis]

Did you forget Santana's 2005 season? He made a living turning screen passes into big plays that year.

That was a nice save on the DHall foul-up :ols:

[Laxpunk2006]

That was a nice save on the DHall foul-up :ols:

Ninja edit

[Dr. Do Itch Big]

I would take Colston strong big receiver with great hands and deceptive speed.

[pjfootballer]

He had a real good season under Mike. After Mike got fired, he fell off the map. Don't think it was his fault.

Get Royal off the outside and bring him in as a slot and maybe the numbers go up. Plus, Royal has been dealing with Orton/Tebow the last couple of years. When he had a bonafide QB (Cutler) he was putting up good numbers.

---------- Post added March-2nd-2012 at 09:18 AM ----------


I don't see Eddie Royal as a guy that adds explosiveness to an offense. Not only is his career average pretty poor at 10.2 ypc (10.8 was his best season, under Mike) but he lacks explosive plays.

In 206 receptions Royal had 18 20+ yard receptions and 3 40+. In comparison Anthony Armstrong had 15 20+ receptions and 7 40+ in 2010 alone on only 44 receptions.

Royal isn't a deep threat nor is he a guy that is going to get you big yards after the catch. He's an undersized possession reciever.

I'm not sure which position Denver was playing him in, but he does run a 4.4. 40. Not lightning fast, but fast. Sign Colston for the underneath stuff, with Hank and Gaffney, Royal could get 1 on 1 coverage and we could take some shots downfield.

[bird_1972]

Get Royal off the outside and bring him in as a slot and maybe the numbers go up. Plus, Royal has been dealing with Orton/Tebow the last couple of years. When he had a bonafide QB (Cutler) he was putting up good numbers.

I dunno, Orton made Brandon Lloyd look like a HOFer. Plus there is a decent chance Orton is on our team next year in which case we better hope Royal can develop some chemistry with him.

[Alcoholic Zebra]

I'm not sure which position Denver was playing him in, but he does run a 4.4. 40. Not lightning fast, but fast. Sign Colston for the underneath stuff, with Hank and Gaffney, Royal could get 1 on 1 coverage and we could take some shots downfield.

I think you're underrating Colston. He's not there "just for the underneath stuff", the guy can run all of the routes, he's big, he goes up and catches it, he's a red zone threat, and he makes plays over the middle. He's really good.

---------- Post added March-2nd-2012 at 11:45 AM ----------


Well as I mentioned in my post, even under Mike Shanahan he averaged 10.8 yards per catch. He had 8 20+ yard plays that season and 2 40+. 47% of his catches were for first downs.

Our very own Jabar Gaffney had 14 20+ yard catches and 1 40+ catch this season and has been labeled by our fan base as a nothing more than a #2 posession reciever. 73% of Gaffney's receptions were for first downs.

If you want to compare them within a single season and offense we can look to 2010. Royal had 59 total catches and 3 touchdowns. 8 were 20+ yards, 1 was for 40+. 54% of his catches were for first downs and he averaged 10.6 yards per catch.

Gaffney had 65 total catches and 2 touchdowns. 12 went for 20+ and 1 went for 40+. 65% went for first downs and he averaged 13.5 yards per catch.

Obviously this thread isn't about Gaffney vs. Royal but my point is that within Mike Shanahan's offense or otherwise, Eddie Royal is not an explosive player. Looking at the numbers in more detail he isn't even particularly great at picking up first downs. I was luke warm on him going into this thread. Now I have even less interest. I'd personally rather see more of Austin/Robinson, neither of whom I am a particular fan of.

Very good post. Completely agree. I see no reason for adding Royal.


Yes.

2011: 70 rec, 947 yds, 6 TDs.

Gaffney had 68 rec, 947 yards, 5 TD's.

Some more stats.

YPC, Gaffney had 13.9. Garcon had 13.5. So it's about even but Gaffney has the edge there.

Garcon had 70 catches on 134 targets. He caught 52.2% of passes thrown his way.
Gaffney had 68 catches on 115 targets. He caught 59.1% of passes thrown his way.

I see no reason (just from stats) to add Garcon. I would much rather sign someone like Colston, who often gets double teamed, and if he's not, is a match up problem cause of how big he is.

[pjfootballer]

I think you're underrating Colston. He's not there "just for the underneath stuff", the guy can run all of the routes, he's big, he goes up and catches it, he's a red zone threat, and he makes plays over the middle. He's really good.

Not at all. I know Colston can go deep. Go back a few pages and I've been advocating Colston over VJax while Laxpunk has been trying to convince me that VJax is a better deep threat. I also said in one of my posts on another page in here that Colston is "sick:" when it comes to catching redzone passes. My preference is Colston & Royal, keep Gaffney, Moss, Paul and Hank. And whether anyone wants him or not, I'd expect to see Royal in a #19 jersey in a couple of weeks.

[Jim Bob]

Colston would appear to be the least likely to be a head case.

Although, VJax has the head case potential, he's the most talented guy that could be out there.

[Laxpunk2006]

Get Royal off the outside and bring him in as a slot and maybe the numbers go up. Plus, Royal has been dealing with Orton/Tebow the last couple of years. When he had a bonafide QB (Cutler) he was putting up good numbers.

---------- Post added March-2nd-2012 at 09:18 AM ----------



I'm not sure which position Denver was playing him in, but he does run a 4.4. 40. Not lightning fast, but fast. Sign Colston for the underneath stuff, with Hank and Gaffney, Royal could get 1 on 1 coverage and we could take some shots downfield.

The point I've been trying to make is that while Royal had 90+ catches with Cutler/Shanahan, his yards per catch, first down per catch, and number of chunk/explosive plays were all well below average. With Orton he actually had a very similar season in yards per catch, and chunk/explosive plays, he just had less targets.

Royal is extremely fast and pre draft was advertised as a big play threat. He seems to be productive in the return game so he would have value for us taking Banks' spot but I haven't seen anything from him in the NFL to suggest that he is a guy that can consistently take the top off a defense or turn a short catch into a bigger gain. Since I've already discussed his "chunk/explosive" plays, or lack thereof, at length, let's looking at his "yac."

In 2008 Eddie Royal averaged 3.8 (rounding up) "yac" per reception.

In comparison Fred Davis averaged 5.98 "yac" per reception this past season.
Santana Moss's "down" 2011 averaged 3.8 "yac."
Donte Stallworth averaged 4.8
Our fullback, Darrell Young averaged 7.1.
Logan Paulsen averaged 4.18.
None of these are considered particularly good numbers. The good "yac" WR's appear to be in the 6.0+ range.

In an attempt to not withhold any of the facts here, Royal averaged 6.5 yac in 2010 playing with Orton/McDaniels. Considering that was his best "yac" performance, I find it unfair to blame coaching/quarterbacking for his inability to pick up additional yards when he did better in that offense. In 2009 he averaged only 3.2.

I hope no one is taking this as a hate fest on Royal or me trying to attack other posters, I find it to be an interesting conversation.

[pjfootballer]

I hope no one is taking this as a hate fest on Royal or me trying to attack other posters, I find it to be an interesting conversation.

Not at all man. I love the stats. I love the comparisons. But what it comes down to is, Royal will be wearing a #19 Redskins jersey in about 11 days or so whether anybody wants him or not. I think he could add something to what we already had in addition to being a good return guy. I still think the FO goes out and gets another receiver along with Royal.

[RWJ]

Not at all man. I love the stats. I love the comparisons. But what it comes down to is, Royal will be wearing a #19 Redskins jersey in about 11 days or so whether anybody wants him or not. I think he could add something to what we already had in addition to being a good return guy. I still think the FO goes out and gets another receiver along with Royal.

Agree 100%

[Truant]

There are a lot more questions than answers in FA for a WR. Everyone has a preference and we might argue against other options, but nothing is close to ideal. Legit #1 WRs don't come for free very often. Our best shot at a #1 WR for next year is probably Hankerson.

While I think we'll add Royal because, at worst, he's good enough to push guys like Austin and Banks off the roster, I'm pretty sure he's not the explosive option we're looking for. But Shanahan knows him, drafted him, used him well. He also won't require a massive contract. While his rookie year may not have been deadly, in terms of yards per catch, it was certainly effective.

If Hank (big if) can be a poor man's version of Bowe/Nicks then we could use a great compliment WR. I'd go with Laurent Robinson. His injury history and lack of consistent success in the NFL would keep his pricetag low and if he doesn't work out it's not a big financial hit. Have Moss and Gaffney helping out and let's see what Paul/Robinson can do. Draft a mid round guy this year or next and build the type of players we need. Can't fill all of our holes in one offseason, but if we can't get that playmaking #1 WR we covet I could see the WR core overall becoming better.

[RWJ]

Not at all man. I love the stats. I love the comparisons. But what it comes down to is, Royal will be wearing a #19 Redskins jersey in about 11 days or so whether anybody wants him or not. I think he could add something to what we already had in addition to being a good return guy. I still think the FO goes out and gets another receiver along with Royal.

Plus, I expect Moss gets the ax, IF/WHEN Royal is signed.

[Laxpunk2006]

Not at all man. I love the stats. I love the comparisons. But what it comes down to is, Royal will be wearing a #19 Redskins jersey in about 11 days or so whether anybody wants him or not. I think he could add something to what we already had in addition to being a good return guy. I still think the FO goes out and gets another receiver along with Royal.

I think I agree with you that he is going to end up being a Skin. I don't dislike the idea of it as he is familiar with the offense and seems to have reliable hands, I just don't think he adds another dimension to our offense. I think most likely he probably consolidates the roles of Austin and Banks saving us a roster spot. I too predict, and hope we're correct that the FO gets an upper echelon reciever to go with him.

I almost see Royal as Randle El but hopefully maintaining the desire to actually return kicks/punts and not just fair catch his way off the team. I just hope our coaching staff doesn't expect him to play a big role in the passing game. As of right now I would put Moss, Hankerson, and Gaffney all above him on the depth chart. Then again if he can begin to translate his speed into big play ability I will quickly become a fan.

[bird_1972]

Not at all man. I love the stats. I love the comparisons. But what it comes down to is, Royal will be wearing a #19 Redskins jersey in about 11 days or so whether anybody wants him or not. I think he could add something to what we already had in addition to being a good return guy. I still think the FO goes out and gets another receiver along with Royal.

I kind of hope that receiver is a (healthy) Marques Colston.

[pjfootballer]

I think I agree with you that he is going to end up being a Skin. I don't dislike the idea of it as he is familiar with the offense and seems to have reliable hands, I just don't think he adds another dimension to our offense. I think most likely he probably consolidates the roles of Austin and Banks saving us a roster spot. I too predict, and hope we're correct that the FO gets an upper echelon reciever to go with him.

I almost see Royal as Randle El but hopefully maintaining the desire to actually return kicks/punts and not just fair catch his way off the team. I just hope our coaching staff doesn't expect him to play a big role in the passing game. As of right now I would put Moss, Hankerson, and Gaffney all above him on the depth chart. Then again if he can begin to translate his speed into big play ability I will quickly become a fan.

Yeah, we definately don't need to carry 9 WRS (8 on the roster, 1 on PS last year) this year. I'd like to cut it down to no more than 6. I'd like to use a couple of those roster spots on OL, DL LB or DB for depth.

[Alcoholic Zebra]

Not at all. I know Colston can go deep. Go back a few pages and I've been advocating Colston over VJax while Laxpunk has been trying to convince me that VJax is a better deep threat. I also said in one of my posts on another page in here that Colston is "sick:" when it comes to catching redzone passes. My preference is Colston & Royal, keep Gaffney, Moss, Paul and Hank. And whether anyone wants him or not, I'd expect to see Royal in a #19 jersey in a couple of weeks.

Ah ok. I'm not a fan of getting Royal. If we do, what happens to Moss? Do we sign Royal to be our 4th or 5th WR? Or 6th (if Paul hopefully develops).

[Laxpunk2006]

Ah ok. I'm not a fan of getting Royal. If we do, what happens to Moss? Do we sign Royal to be our 4th or 5th WR? Or 6th (if Paul hopefully develops).

My prediction would be at a minimum Austin/Banks go and maybe Moss too depending on what our other FA moves are. I don't see Royal being anything better than a 4th WR though. As I mentioned earlier I think Moss (Or FA replacement), Gaffney, and Hankerson are all above him on the depth chart. If we move on from Moss maybe he takes over the slot if one of the other three aren't comfortable playing inside.

[bulldog]

The Redskins could actually use TWO wide receivers in free agency.

How about Marques Colston AND Eddie Royal? :)

The team has the cap room to upgrade the skill positions and no one can say we don't need it. That offense that took the field in 2011 was about as untalented as any I have seen around here in many years.

Assuming the Redskins are going to come out of the draft with a quarterback and some mid round picks for OL, it would make sense not to gamble at WR with rookies and younger players and go with guys who have proven themselves but are still young enough to be part of the picture here for the next 3-4 years.