Jay Glazer twitter - Rams Redskins agree to trade-Swap 1st's give up 2nd this year +two 1sts

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

Odds are 0% Beck, Grossman work out. Odds are 1/32 any eams plan works out. But, one thing will never change. YOU NEED A QB.

The problem this cat has seems to be with the draft itself.

WHat i don't get is, NOW we are getting the "we don't know" argument. No ****, it's the draft and there can be injuries even if you just signed a FA Tom Brady in his prime!!

So if you have a problem with the fact that a draft pick is unproven compared to other UNPROVEN POTENTIALITIES, then your problem is with the draft..therefore, you shouldn't even care.

Let me restate that.

If you have an issue because a player is unproven, your problem is the DRAFT because all of these picks are not real NFL players yet.

THEREFORE, if that is the case, you should stop complaining because NONE of these picks are worth anything to you.

[GaryGreenMonk]

I would have prefered we kept the picks, and signed FLynn.

But we didn't, so my desires are irrelevant now. Like I said, it'll be an exciting offseason and season coming up.

Multiple GMs would disagree. Browns tried to unseat us also with 3 firsts .

But i guess u are smarter

[HailGreen28]

Because you have ****ing draft picks as a default setting for the league. You're talking about a trade...which means you talk about the additional costs.

You can't count the pick you planned on using already

Those draft picks get used by teams. Period, even if traded. SOMEONE uses them somewhere. You don't "Count" that except in evaluations of the player later on.

You don't count all three as part of the TRADE talks because both teams still pick in the ****ing first round. The picks you're giving up are to increase the perceived marginal utility of a pick you are ALREADY SPENDING.

If someone said you were going to get a car on Friday, but if you paid 100 bucks, you could get a Bentley (put aside the uncertainty of the draft for a minute) how much did it cost you to get the Bentley? 100 bucks!!!

HailGreen, I recognize you as a former ally. You need to separate out retrospective analyses of how picks were spent within the context of draft effectiveness (like saying, we took Landry...that was a disappointment, etc) and the discussion of the "Controversy" over the cost.
THE ONLY REASON THERE ARE NEGATIVE POSTS IN THE LAST SEVERAL HOURS IS BECAUSE OF WHAT WE "GAVE UP." SO the fact that we are using a pick we already would use on Griffin WERE he to drop to 6, is irrelevant.

IF Griffin were a player on a roster already, THEN you would be right that we are giving up three picks. But we did not give up three first rounders for a player. We gave up TWO first rounders to move to a better position for a PICK. A pick that we happen to know in advance, that's the difference.The spin is strong on this one. Just like Tailgate political threads. Again.

Can you count to one? If we had just picked someone at #6 this year, we would spend one first rounder on that player.

Can you count to three? We traded three first rounders (and a second rounder) for the Rams #2. We gave up three first rounders for that pick.

Whoever we pick, presumably RG3, we will have used our first this year, our first next year, our first the year after, and a second rounder to get him.

How is this not simple?

(GNP, you're a cool poster. Please consider my "can you count" as more frustration and humor than suggesting you aren't a smart poster. I can't think of a clearer way to explain this.)

[Thirtyfive2seven]

:D :D I've never been happier. I came out of a movie last night and saw it on the tv as I walked by on the way to my car. I stopped and had to have a celebratory drink :) Welcome to DC RGIII

[FanboyOf91]

****ing draft pick swaps, how do they work?

[Crazy Levi]

Multiple GMs would disagree. Browns tried to unseat us also with 3 firsts .

But i guess u are smarter

Only on Extremeskins can you give your honest opinion, concede that it doesn't matter at this point and that you are ON BOARD with what management did, and STILL have dudes pull the "I guess you are smarter" card.

Come on people, play nice.

[Pick6]

To those not liking the trade, would you have done differently? Sign Flynn? Orton? Keep Rex? Draft Tannehill?
So basically you'd be happy with the status quo.

The haters of the trade won't answer this. The will just continue to ***** and complain like women without adding really substance to the conversation. Just all doom and gloom.

[panahoo]

I personally do not like this trade. That being said we are finally getting a QB that will, if nothing else, provide some excitement to the season. May RG3 be one of the best qbs to ever play in Washington. I will be rooting 300% for him in the b&g

[Crazy Levi]

The haters of the trade won't answer this. The will just continue to ***** and complain like women without adding really substance to the conversation. Just all doom and gloom.

I'm not a "hater," but I DID answer this. Do I win a cookie? Or are you either a Hater or a RG3tard, with no in between around here?

[FanboyOf91]

Hopefully Andrew Luck pulls an Eli Manning. I see it happening given that Luck's grandparents are in West Virginia. I'll be happy with either Luck or RG3.

Quick, someone show Luck Jim Irsay's Twitter account. He'll also need a vomit bag.

[I_Bleed_B&G]

Not having a first round pick till 2015 is gonna suck. But we can work around it. Of course, we cannot afford to trade ANY draft picks from here on in. It's gotta be smart picking with what he have and more good FA signings.

I've got some reservations about the deal, no doubt. But I'm THRILLED we went this way and not Manning.
For sure. I see us trading back some of our picks to pick up more players and hope that more pan out the next 2 years or so. Landry and Campbell are 1st round picks that have not worked out so we just never know with these 1st round picks. I think we'll be OK

[redskinss]

It's so funny how the biggest argument is the wording of how many picks we gave up.

[terpfan]

I would have prefered we kept the picks, and signed FLynn.

hahahahahahahahahahaha

Wait for it.


hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[CrabR]

The haters of the trade won't answer this. The will just continue to ***** and complain like women without adding really substance to the conversation. Just all doom and gloom.

I would have signed another vet and would have drafted another QB. Let him set for a year and learn. Used the other 3 picks we gave away to add solid starters around him. Like I have said since teh 70's stop trading our draft picks away

[SKlNZfan24]

What if the colts buy into all the RG3 hype and draft him instead of Luck.. would you be disappointed?

[Crazy Levi]

It's so funny how the biggest argument is the wording of how many picks we gave up.

According to John Clayton, this is the FIRST TIME since 1980 (when they started keeping track) that ANY team has "traded three first round picks" to move into the top 5.

People can argue about semantics all they want, but people need to realize that this really is a HUGE, unprecedented deal.

Not saying that's good or bad, but people need to stop downlplaying how big this is - win or lose.

The Redskins gave up more for what they got than anybody else ever has. Ever.

[Prosperity]

:ols: The same could have been said about A. Rodgers, M. Ryan, J. Flacco, etc. This is not a valid argument, Prosperity. The same can be said for any player coming out in the draft. And you cannot say for sure who or who will not be a HOFer. For example, let's talk about L. Fletcher. Think about all of his accomplishments. Do you see him as a HOF? I know I do, but that does not mean much when it comes to the voters. My apologies, my man, but that argument is weak. :silly: Truth is, who gives a damn if he ends up in the HOF? If he performs as advertised and help s this team win, then what the hell does that matter? Let's root for our guy and stop reading into this too much. The kid is good, and he can do the things we need him to do. At the end of the day, that's what we have lacked. ;)
It's pretty ****ing obvious that I used "HOFer" and "Superstar" as short for "amazing franchise player"

BUT, it seems like going to the HOF is actually something that the proponents of this deal are backing up. That is, going to the HOF is part of the "as advertised." So much confidence. I certainly hope he pans out, but I can't imagine having higher hopes for a player coming out of college than we have for RG3.

[Rocky52Mc]

It's so funny how the biggest argument is the wording of how many picks we gave up.

Because it's one thing to say I'll trade you 3 first round picks for RG3, it's a completely different thing to say I'll swap first rounders with you, by sending you two additional first round picks.

If that doesn't make sense to you or anyone else, I'm sorry.

[MattFancy]

Not having a first round pick till 2015 is gonna suck. But we can work around it. Of course, we cannot afford to trade ANY draft picks from here on in. It's gotta be smart picking with what he have and more good FA signings.

I've got some reservations about the deal, no doubt. But I'm THRILLED we went this way and not Manning.

Yeah we're going to have to have some smart drafts in the next few years. But after last year's draft, I have faith. We turned what, 6 picks or something like that into 13. We can still get impact players in the later rounds. A lot of solid OL can be found in the later rounds, same with WRs, and RBs. I'm sure we'll restock with this coming FA class. We have the cap room so let's get to work!

[Crazy Levi]

hahahahahahahahahahaha

Wait for it.


hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

This is the kind of well reasoned discussion I've come to expect from Extremeskins.

[HailGreen28]

The haters of the trade won't answer this. The will just continue to ***** and complain like women without adding really substance to the conversation. Just all doom and gloom.Offer two firsts and a third. If the Browns beat that, sign Flynn or easily draft any QB not named Luck or Griffin with our #6. Continue to build the team the right way, patiently through the draft.

I'm just saying Mike Shanahan just pushed practically all his chips into the pot, with this trade. He has three seasons max for it to pan out.

[MattFancy]

According to John Clayton, this is the FIRST TIME since 1980 that ANY team has "traded three first round picks" to move into the top 5.

People can argue about semantics all they want, but people need to realize that this really is a HUGE, unprecedented deal.

Not saying that's good or bad, but people need to stop downlplaying how big this is - win or lose.

The Redskins gave up more for what they got than anybody else ever has. Ever.

Here's a thought, did we give up more because of the rookie cap? Teams weren't as willing before to move up in the draft because of the amount of money they would need to shell out to move up. Now with the cap, teams are probably willing to give up a little more knowing they won't need to dish out those huge deals to rookies anymore.

[Dan T.]

What if the colts buy into all the RG3 hype and draft him instead of Luck.. would you be disappointed?


Getting the 2 spot is like hitting the slots jackpot at a Vegas casino. Getting Andrew Luck on top of that would be like buying a million dollar lotto ticket in the casino lobby on the way out.

[mhenry41h]

The math comprehension Im seeing is deplorable: Lets look at it this way:


Redskins Pre Trade have:

2012 1st Round Pick
2012 2nd Round Pick
2013 1st Round Pick
2014 1st Round Pick

Rams Pre Trade Have:

2012 1st Round Pick

Redskins Post Trade have:
2012 1st Round Pick

Rams Post Trade Have:

2012 1st Round Pick
2012 2nd Round Pick
2013 1st round Pick
2014 1st Round Pick

Understand? If the Redskins lost 3 1st round picks, we wouldnt have the #2 Overall pick with which to select RG3...

[Crazy Levi]

Here's a thought, did we give up more because of the rookie cap? Teams weren't as willing before to move up in the draft because of the amount of money they would need to shell out to move up. Now with the cap, teams are probably willing to give up a little more knowing they won't need to dish out those huge deals to rookies anymore.

It's actually the opposite, as has been pointed out.

Those three first round picks we traded are worth more than ever. A few years ago, they would have been almost an albatross to the team that gets them, due to huge rookie contracts. In 2012, three first round picks are far more valuable than they were in 2010.

[PerryMason]

Lol yeah, a completely failed trade where we give the farm for one guy will be justified 3 years down the road, just cus we will finally have a full draft again. I dunno if I agree with that logic...

I didn't say itd be justified just that youll never feel the effects bc during that time youll be seeing if Rg3 is developing. plus if he works out (cause ya know that could happen too)you won't remember those picks at all....just sit back and enjoy the fact we are finally trying to draft our own homegrown franchise QB

[MattFancy]

Offer two firsts and a third. If the Browns beat that, sign Flynn or easily draft any QB not named Luck or Griffin with our #6. Continue to build the team the right way, patiently through the draft.

I'm just saying Mike Shanahan just pushed practically all his chips into the pot, with this trade. He has three seasons max for it to pan out.

Who said we're still not building through the draft? We still have 7 picks this year, 6 in 2013, and 6 in 2014. That's plenty of picks to get guys you want and need. Plus, we're DRAFTING RG3, not signing someone else's QB.

[Darth Tater]

Ditka did that for a RB, the Redskins did that for a QB, you mean you think a RB is as valuable as a QB?

Teams are not built around RBs. Ricky Williams did last 11 year but played for 3 different teams, often as the backup. Only three times did he provide more than 10 TDs and only once did he have an elite season although had he played all 16 games in his second season might have had another one. Even LT P. Manning was elite at least 5 times and great in about 6 others. It is very easy to identify at least 3 times the Colts used him as the centerpiece of their rebuilds in 1998, 2002, 2009 (although he did blind them that time). Buffalo has not been in the mix since Kelly retired. Dallas was fading at the end, but Aikman still made them a threat in the late 90s. Eli was expensive but has taken the Giants to two SB wins (although there are some big differences, this is a better comparison if you need to look at any past deals). The elite guys who were found later? Brady got to sit behind Bledsoe for a year plus an off season (Bledsoe, though he faded quick, was a very good QB for a short period). Rodgers got to sit behind Favre for 3 seasons while Green Bay rebuilt much of Rodgers technique. If you are going to bring in a guy found later to sit on the bench for a season or 3, you better make sure you've got a good QB starting in front of him.

[Dan T.]

Here's a thought, did we give up more because of the rookie cap? Teams weren't as willing before to move up in the draft because of the amount of money they would need to shell out to move up. Now with the cap, teams are probably willing to give up a little more knowing they won't need to dish out those huge deals to rookies anymore.

I think there's something to that. In the past, draft a highly touted QB with a top pick was almost a double-edged sword because of the gigantic contract he was going to get. Now the hit isn't as big so you have more cap flexibility to go get other puzzle pieces.

[LadySkinsFan]

We will have whomever the Colts don't take, that's Luck or RGIII. Either QB will help this team so it's a win for the Redskins. I am so happy with this trade. It means that the FO is all in in making this team a perennial winner, not just win right now. How refreshing!

We can acquire good FAs, we have seen that Shanahan and Allen and the scouting team know to select good players later in the draft (see 2011 draft where most of the draftees made the team). We are building and leaving behind the win now mentality that made the Redskins pick players that may not have really fit well. Now we are really building a team for the long term.

Yay!!

[MattFancy]

It's actually the opposite, as has been pointed out.

Those three first round picks we traded are worth more than ever. A few years ago, they would have been almost an albatross to the team that gets them, due to huge rookie contracts. In 2012, three first round picks are far more valuable than they were in 2010.

I could see that too. I think it goes both ways. Some teams might not be as scared to move them knowing the money isn't a huge risk anymore, but others may hold on to them knowing the money isn't a huge risk anymore. Obviously, we fall into the making a move category.

[Wrong Direction]

This site was almost unaminously in favor of trading our #1 and #2 this year, plust our #1 and something like a #3/#4 next year.

The difference in those two trades ends up being a third #1 in 2014 instead of a #3 or #4 in 2013.

You're drafting RG3 with the idea that the #1 in 2014 will be something like #20 or lower.

I think the people hating on this are picking at nits.

[Blue Collar Skins]

The spin is strong on this one. Just like Tailgate political threads. Again.

Can you count to one? If we had just picked someone at #6 this year, we would spend one first rounder on that player.

Can you count to three? We traded three first rounders (and a second rounder) for the Rams #2. We gave up three first rounders for that pick.

Whoever we pick, presumably RG3, we will have used our first this year, our first next year, our first the year after, and a second rounder to get him.

How is this not simple?

(GNP, you're a cool poster. Please consider my "can you count" as more frustration and humor than suggesting you aren't a smart poster. I can't think of a clearer way to explain this.) I think you two are talking two different things. He is talking about the trade that we only surrendered Two First Round picks plus a 2nd Round. While you are talking the total cost of draft Robert Griffin which is going to be Three First Round Picks and a Second Round (Two First Rounders and a Second from the trade, then the First Rounder to actually draft him).

As far as a player costing that much...let's say you draft a QB in the first round and he lights it up. Well after his fourth year, you tender him at a cost of two first round picks, but most teams would not do that. They would either make a long term deal or franchise him rather than letting any other team try to sign him and pay two first round picks, because they would. So is a franchise QB worth three first round picks? You bet you butt he is! :)

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

HailGreen28

No offense taken. I think you need to take heart. Things are going to be OK. KNow how I know? Because from months ago, I knew things were going to be OK. THis is different than hoping. I KNEW we'd get one of these QBs. I KNEW it (I think we'll get Griffin.) I had no reason in October, no rational reason. Yet I knew it. I don't know how to describe it but things are going to be OK, dude.

Now as for what you're saying, yes, you are right IF (and only if) you are talking about "draft effectiveness" overall. But since we have not even PICKED yet, you can't analyze the trade that way. You can't really analyze the trade at all that way.

The only reason there are any negative nells out here this morning/last night is because of the TRADE aspect of this. Again, if Griffin drops to 6, we take him. So now we take him anyway, it's just that it COST us 2 first rounders.

We were picking first round in 2012. We still are. Therefore, you just can't consider that part of the cost here. We have to be aware of the context when we're debating. I've heard other boards talk about this and it seemed some capital investment, accounting and economic concepts are not being understood. If I have a house already, you can question whether or not I should have bought the house but I was gonna buy A house. So if I had to buy this particular house at a premium of 50,000, sure you think about the total cost when thinking about the house but you isolate out the premium when thinking about the opportunity to purchase THIS house.

[martytheman]

so what are the mediots saying about this? i dont have cable....

[MattFancy]

Here's my thought on the pick debate:

If you want to say Griffin is going to cost us 3 1st rounders, I can buy that. He's basically our 2012, 2013, and 2014 1st round pick.

If you want to say we traded 3 1st round picks, sure we did. But we're also getting one back so really it cost us 2 1st rounders to swap 2012 1st rounders.

[IrepDC]

Giving up two first rounders and change would have been my ceiling. Absolute final offer would have been this year's 1 and 3 and next year's 1.

This deal, huge gamble. With Mike and Kyle coaching, I'm hoping for the best.

RG3 had ONE good year in college. That's bad, but maybe him being raw will be a good thing, under the Shanahans.
You are clearly getting all of your info from the media i.e. if they don't tell you about a player, you don't know think they played well. Griffin had at least two good years of college, arguably three.

[Lazerbuggy]

Aint that the damned truth!?! Four teams looking to draft RGIII, imo, this couldve been much more expensive than it was. C'mon SKINS fans, UNITE! We got our guy!

[Crazy Levi]

so what are the mediots saying about this? i dont have cable....

Way too early to make that call. They are saying it's a huge trade. Seems fair to me.

[MattFancy]

This site was almost unaminously in favor of trading our #1 and #2 this year, plust our #1 and something like a #3/#4 next year.

The difference in those two trades ends up being a third #1 in 2014 instead of a #3 or #4 in 2013.

You're drafting RG3 with the idea that the #1 in 2014 will be something like #20 or lower.

I think the people hating on this are picking at nits.

That's how I feel. The FO is banking on our 2013 and 2014 picks not being very high picks. So if it ends up being #18 overrall in 2013 and #25 overrall in 2014, I'd say that it was well worth it.

Now if it ends up being 2 Top 10 picks, then its different.

[HailGreen28]

HailGreen28

No offense taken. I think you need to take heart. Things are going to be OK. KNow how I know? Because from months ago, I knew things were going to be OK. THis is different than hoping. I KNEW we'd get one of these QBs. I KNEW it (I think we'll get Griffin.) I had no reason in October, no rational reason. Yet I knew it. I don't know how to describe it but things are going to be OK, dude.

Now as for what you're saying, yes, you are right IF (and only if) you are talking about "draft effectiveness" overall. But since we have not even PICKED yet, you can't analyze the trade that way. You can't really analyze the trade at all that way.

The only reason there are any negative nells out here this morning/last night is because of the TRADE aspect of this. Again, if Griffin drops to 6, we take him. So now we take him anyway, it's just that it COST us 2 first rounders.

We were picking first round in 2012. We still are. Therefore, you just can't consider that part of the cost here. We have to be aware of the context when we're debating. I've heard other boards talk about this and it seemed some capital investment, accounting and economic concepts are not being understood. If I have a house already, you can question whether or not I should have bought the house but I was gonna buy A house. So if I had to buy this particular house at a premium of 50,000, sure you think about the total cost when thinking about the house but you isolate out the premium when thinking about the opportunity to purchase THIS house.Yeah, I'm thrilled with RG3's potential. Glad this was at least done NOW. I don't know if my heart could have taken going into draft day with anything goes. (No health problems, but I might have developed one over this, lol)

I just don't agree with the spinning what the cost actually is. We paid 3 firsts and a second. I want to tell others to deal with it, that's what we spent to draft #2 this draft.

It's just such a huge gamble. We could end up with a Brady/Peyton and at least one ring, and three firsts and a second will be worth it. We could end up with Eli/Brees and a ring and it'd be worth it. We could end up with Flacco/McNabb and no rings and it's not worth it. Or (shudder) Russell/Leaf and we're laughingstocks.

Thinking about it, maybe I just want this to result in at least one SB win. Hard for me to associate that with just one player, but deep down I think that's what I'm evaluating as worth the cost here. Even if that may not measure up like picks vs. players. lol

[BayouBrave86]

This is the kind of well reasoned discussion I've come to expect from Extremeskins.

While I don't agree that we should've signed Flynn instead of trading for RG3, I do agree with this statement.

[JumboJimmbo]

I remember one of my buddies mentioning that mortenson said one of the first rounders was conditional. Can anyone shed some light on that?

[IrepDC]

According to John Clayton, this is the FIRST TIME since 1980 (when they started keeping track) that ANY team has "traded three first round picks" to move into the top 5.

People can argue about semantics all they want, but people need to realize that this really is a HUGE, unprecedented deal.

Not saying that's good or bad, but people need to stop downlplaying how big this is - win or lose.

The Redskins gave up more for what they got than anybody else ever has. Ever.

We lose one pick in each of the next 3 drafts. We'll be fine.

2012: 1,3,4,4,5,6,7
2013: 2,3,4,5,6,7,7
2014: 2,3,4,5,6,7

We are hardly as crippled as some are making it seem. Our current FO has done an excellent job of finding value in the rounds listed above. With hopefully a franchise QB now, we are looking in GREAT shape, in my opinion. Again, one lost pick in each draft won't cripple us. People are just in headline shock.

[frostyj]

Yeah, I'm thrilled with RG3's potential. Glad this was at least done NOW. I don't know if my heart could have taken going into draft day with anything goes. (No health problems, but I might have developed one over this, lol)

I just don't agree with the spinning what the cost actually is. We paid 3 firsts and a second. I want to tell others to deal with it, that's what we spent to draft #2 this draft.

It's just such a huge gamble. We could end up with a Brady/Peyton and at least one ring, and three firsts and a second will be worth it. We could end up with Eli/Brees and a ring and it'd be worth it. We could end up with Flacco/McNabb and no rings and it's not worth it. Or (shudder) Russell/Leaf and we're laughingstocks.

Thinking about it, maybe I just want this to result in at least one SB win. Hard for me to associate that with just one player, but deep down I think that's what I'm evaluating as worth the cost here. Even if that may not measure up like picks vs. players. lol

Yes, yes, we traded 3 first's. But we got one first back in the form or the 2nd pick instead of the 6th. So we really traded 2 first's as this year's picks cancel out.

[hunterx]

According to John Clayton, this is the FIRST TIME since 1980 (when they started keeping track) that ANY team has "traded three first round picks" to move into the top 5.

People can argue about semantics all they want, but people need to realize that this really is a HUGE, unprecedented deal.

Not saying that's good or bad, but people need to stop downlplaying how big this is - win or lose.

The Redskins gave up more for what they got than anybody else ever has. Ever.


I think people know what we gave up. I think people are okay with that. I see most people who write about the NFL understand why. We haven't had a franchise QB in over 30 years. RG3 has the potential to be a 10+ year quarterback more so than Shuler (head case), Ramsey or Campbell that we have drafted in round 1 the last 15 years.

It's worth the risk. Not to mention, now we can lure in free agents easier knowing that we have a dynamic rookie QB who could be better than what Vick ever had the potential to be.

[GO HAMSKINS]

I don't Like the Move. Not saying it will not work out, but I would have rather have built the team up with those picks. There are other QB's available in the later rounds in the draft. Unless we go Crazy in Free Agency I will change my opinon, but if we continue to try to rebuild like we've been doing Im dissapointed. Im not much of a gambling man . I just think the whole " all your Eggs in one basket" will come back to hurt you later on. Not saying Im right It's just my opinion. With that said WE GOT RGIII Baby !!

[MattFancy]

I don't Like the Move. Not saying it will not work out, but I would have rather have built the team up with those picks. There are other QB's available in the later rounds in the draft. Unless we go Crazy in Free Agency I will change my opinon, but if we continue to try to rebuild like we've been doing Im dissapointed. Im not much of a gambling man . I just think the whole " all your Eggs in one basket" will come back to hurt you later on. Not saying Im right It's just my opinion. With that said WE GOT RGIII Baby !!

The picks don't bother me since we still have 20 over the next 3 years. Sure we don't have a 1st in 2013 or 2014, but there is plenty of talent not in the 1st round of the draft.

[HailGreen28]

Yes, yes, we traded 3 first's. But we got one first back in the form or the 2nd pick instead of the 6th. So we really traded 2 first's as this year's picks cancel out.They don't cancel out. We use our first this year, or do we let the clock run out when it's our turn? :silly:

This trade isn't doomed to fail, but it's 3 firsts and a second. Can't we avoid trying to spin this into "less cost" somehow?

[jnhay]

If RG3 is a success, then our drafts should have a lot more players in the years to come. A big reason we've had such tiny drafts is because we've been trying to compensate for the lack of QB.



They don't cancel out. We use our first this year, or do we let the clock run out when it's our turn? :silly:

This trade isn't doomed to fail, but it's 3 firsts and a second. Can't we avoid trying to spin this into "less cost" somehow?
Why don't we just call it like it is? We gave up 3 firsts and a second to move up 4 spots. They gave up one to move down and get 4 picks. Pretty simple. Nothing has to "cancel out."

[IrepDC]

I see the other two firts as Patrick Ramsey and Jason Campbell- picks we wouldve wasted if we had reached for other non top QBs. I see the second rounders as Devin Thomas. I'm fine with that. Some people worry about Griffin not panning out, but we've had plenty of players in the picks we gave up not pan out. I'm fine with taking a shot at one top guy over continuing to waste picks on reaches.

[wilburmarshall]

I know you weren't bashing the move but we need to stop saying we gave up 3 firsts. We STILL have the first it's just up a few spots. That is a net of two. You only would count picks like that if we were trading for a player already on a roster because we would truly be losing out on a selection in that round.

---------- Post added March-10th-2012 at 08:51 AM ----------

Cutler would easily be had for what we gave up. I am sure the Chargers would even think hard on that one. Has anyone ever given up three 1's in a trade before? Would have anyone guessed a year ago that RG3 would be the first? This is a huge gamble considering how many other holes we have.



You are aware that TWO (you have to remember we still get a damn pick in this year's first round. It's a swap. We were going to take a QB anyway!) first rounders would NOT have gotten us Brady, Brees, Rivers, Eli, Newton, Cutler, etc. And not Indy's pick, either. They are sitting put. And why would it take 7 years? By 2014 we probably know what the deal is, and in 2015 we can select a QB in the first round again.

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

They don't cancel out. We use our first this year, or do we let the clock run out when it's our turn? :silly:

You're still getting it wrong. Since the first this year was getting used somehow, and teams get draft picks in the NFL, the marginal cost is the 2 first rounders. If there were no draft and the the NFL had FAs and a signing cap for rookies and the Skins had to pay a million to get the right to a player's contract, the COST would be a million.

NFL has a draft system. Teams are assigned picks based on record (aside from compensatory picks.) Therefore, you are SPENDING picks every year, if you have them. SOMEONE is spending them. The ADDITIONAL foregoing of picks to get the SHOT at another is what you calculate.

ANother way, if you had a registration fee for your vehicle that you MUST pay, do you really consider that cost (other than budgeting, but do you say.man, I could have not spent that?) But if you really wanted a personalized plate, you consider THAT cost the premium.

Again, you are more doing a calculation based on if a player were ALREADY on a roster.

It makes no sense to talk about the pick we were GOING TO USE ANYWAY because that would just have been SOME OTHER player. I'm not sure "sunk cost" is exactly correct here but it comes close to portraying what I'm talking about.

[AKM311]

Yeah, I'm thrilled with RG3's potential. Glad this was at least done NOW. I don't know if my heart could have taken going into draft day with anything goes. (No health problems, but I might have developed one over this, lol)

I just don't agree with the spinning what the cost actually is. We paid 3 firsts and a second. I want to tell others to deal with it, that's what we spent to draft #2 this draft.

It's just such a huge gamble. We could end up with a Brady/Peyton and at least one ring, and three firsts and a second will be worth it. We could end up with Eli/Brees and a ring and it'd be worth it. We could end up with Flacco/McNabb and no rings and it's not worth it. Or (shudder) Russell/Leaf and we're laughingstocks.

Thinking about it, maybe I just want this to result in at least one SB win. Hard for me to associate that with just one player, but deep down I think that's what I'm evaluating as worth the cost here. Even if that may not measure up like picks vs. players. lol

This only makes sense if you could guarentuee a SB with those picks instead. You cant. The only difference is one side of this trade solves the one position every team has to have solved in order to win consistently. The other side has a bunch of players that can help get you there, but don't guarentuee anything else.

[MartinC]

They don't cancel out. We use our first this year, or do we let the clock run out when it's our turn? :silly:

This trade isn't doomed to fail, but it's 3 firsts and a second. Can't we avoid trying to spin this into "less cost" somehow?

I think people are getting confused with their definitions of what they are talking about in terms of price. We gave up 2 firsts and second to trade up with the Rams for their #2 pick. We will then effectively use 3 firsts and a second on drafting RGIII.

Anyone in the media or on here saying we gave up 3 firsts to trade up is wrong. Anyone saying we will be giving up 3 firsts to draft RGIII is correct.

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

Dude, you said three picks again.

We didn't trade three first rounders. We SWAPPED POSITIONS and surrendered two first rounders. People are getting way too hung up on the "Three first rounders" thing and THAT, Hailgreen28 is why I insist on your saying two, because our friend here is confused. Dammit. I think the Bears did trade something like that, AND a QB and another pick. We missed our shot. THis is what happens when you try to get a QB.

And no, Rivers would NOT get traded...not for 4 first rounders. Unless it was going to put the Chargers in place to grab Luck or RG3 this year.

Look, you simply haven't studied trades recently and what it cost to get guys.

But going beyond that, we were goign to take a QB SOMEWHERE in the draft. So, we swapped positions to get the guy we WANT..and gave up two firsts and a second. I know it's a high second, it stings but that's how it works.

CLEVELAND WAS GOING TO DO IT AND THEY ARE WORSE THAN US!! HELLO!?!?

[CarolinaPride]

Congrats Skins fans. I've family up in WV, that are die hard Redskin fans that are very excited about the trade. I hope RG3 works out well for you guys. Personally, I view him as a better qb than Luck.

[HailGreen28]

You're still getting it wrong. Since the first this year was getting used somehow, and teams get draft picks in the NFL, the marginal cost is the 2 first rounders. If there were no draft and the the NFL had FAs and a signing cap for rookies and the Skins had to pay a million to get the right to a player's contract, the COST would be a million.

NFL has a draft system. Teams are assigned picks based on record (aside from compensatory picks.) Therefore, you are SPENDING picks every year, if you have them. SOMEONE is spending them. The ADDITIONAL foregoing of picks to get the SHOT at another is what you calculate.

ANother way, if you had a registration fee for your vehicle that you MUST pay, do you really consider that cost (other than budgeting, but do you say.man, I could have not spent that?) But if you really wanted a personalized plate, you consider THAT cost the premium.

Again, you are more doing a calculation based on if a player were ALREADY on a roster.

It makes no sense to talk about the pick we were GOING TO USE ANYWAY because that would just have been SOME OTHER player. I'm not sure "sunk cost" is exactly correct here but it comes close to portraying what I'm talking about.If we drafted Tannehill with the #6 pick, how many first round picks would we spend on him? One. This year's.

If we draft Griffin with the #2 pick, how many first round picks would we spend on him? Three. This year's, 2013's, and 2014's.

I don't know any other way to explain this.

Hail!
:cheers:

[Veretax]

If you have an issue because a player is unproven, your problem is the DRAFT because all of these picks are not real NFL players yet.

THEREFORE, if that is the case, you should stop complaining because NONE of these picks are worth anything to you.

Well said GoNM. I hadn't thought of it that way, but let's be honest, even if you believe that it takes time to develop these picks, let's say 3 years. By that third year, you are going to be mostly past whether this guy is there or not right? So it's still a pretty good deal IMO

[Bliz]

I just couldn't be more excited.

As many others have noted, if he pans out it will have been well worth the price. We haven't had a franchise qb since Theismann. It's not possible for us to pay too much

[ucfSKINS]

That's how I feel. The FO is banking on our 2013 and 2014 picks not being very high picks. So if it ends up being #18 overrall in 2013 and #25 overrall in 2014, I'd say that it was well worth it.

Now if it ends up being 2 Top 10 picks, then its different.

+1

Hate to say 'too early to tell' but its the truth. At the moment, I am very happy with this trade. However, that could change over the next few years. Lets hope not!

[ncr2h]

When you draft a QB in the first round, you have effectively traded your #1 pick for that QB. Therefore, we gave up 3 1st rounders and 1 second rounder, and in exchange we got RG3. Is there any QB in the league that is worth 3 first rounders? Probably not, and I think when we enter next year's draft and the draft after that hamstrung by our decision this year, the reality will start to hit everyone in just how much we gave up.

[HailGreen28]

This only makes sense if you could guarentuee a SB with those picks instead. You cant. The only difference is one side of this trade solves the one position every team has to have solved in order to win consistently. The other side has a bunch of players that can help get you there, but don't guarentuee anything else.Yeah, there are no guarantees. That's why smart posters on this board (am not counting myself as one) say you can only truly evaluate draft classes in hindsight.

Will this trade be worth it? We'll see. A ring is my personal standard for this trade. I guess if we win with RG3, like the Ravens did with Dilfer, I'd still say the trade stunk. But I don't think the odds of that are worth worrying about. This is such a QB driven league now, if Griffin stinks, we will too.

[CarolinaPride]

I just couldn't be more excited.

As many others have noted, if he pans out it will have been well worth the price. We haven't had a franchise qb since Theismann. It's not possible for us to pay too much

Your signature, Brian B. is an idiot if he just compares RG3 to other black qbs. I think RG3 has a better arm than Luck, and most white qbs that have come out as well. Surround him with enough talent, and support, and RG3 can light the league on fire.

[Kelvin Bryant]

Wrong. You are talking about two different calculations. What you mention is kind of an evaluation of Griffin alone.

What people are complaining about (and others are correcting) is the transaction cost to acquiring Griffin.

For a moment, pretend that Griffin fell to #6. Well, we would grab him. That's a given. There's a chance we'd grab Tannehill or whatever. Anyway, the point is, you CANNOT COUNT the pick you would have USED ANYWAY if that player were available in the "price" to move up to get him.

If you look at it like a T sheet, the "Net Worth" of what is involved is 2 #1 picks and a #2. The two swapped picks balance out.

Now 5-10 years from now, you can pretend that we had a chance at someone else, and then throw in that pick from THIS year in the first as an evaluative measure. BUt you CANNOT include it in the cost or net value calculation of this trade.

I don't know why this is so hard to understand. If we had miraculously gotten Griffin at #6, then it obviously cost that pick to get him. One first-rounder.

To move to #2, we added 2 first round picks and 1 second. That represents the incremental cost of the move. The total cost for Griffin is 3 firsts and a second.

If we didn't make the deal, we would have had three firsts and a second to use on other players or trades.

[TotalRecall]

Told ya it would be a hefty price. I believe this to be a very bad trade for us if we pick RG3. If he's mediocre or another Michael Vick, then we failed. We will push the rebuilding back to like what the Falcons have been through (a dozen years?). Yeah, the Falcons have made the playoffs with Vick, but with this kind of trade we would expect Super Bowls or, at the least, consistent playoff appearances, like a Peyton Manning, which Vick couldn't do. The risk/reward is too great here for someone who's not considered a "sure thing". This team has some bad karma or a curse on it.

However, if Luck refuses to play for Indy, then this trade would be worth it, because I see multiple Super Bowls in his future with the right team. Since Indy is gutting their roster, maybe this is a possibility. This would be my hope. :logo:

[Backpack3r]

HELL YES. We are getting RG3. You know how excited i am. We are FINALLY going to be getting that young franchise QB that we can build around.

HTTR

[FrFan]

Adam Schefter ‏ @AdamSchefter (http://twitter.com/#!/adamschefter)
"Trade will not change Redskins plans in pursuing Peyton Manning. Intend to talk with and try to sign him, even if considered a longshot."
Thought he made himself clear about not wanting to come to DC.

[bikie]

it's a lot to give up, but I'm convinced we would have been spinning our wheels for the next 15 years if we didn't do something drastic to get a real QB... now we just have to hope RGIII is a real QB...

[GatorEye]

People who think we overpaid need to step off the ledge. The truth is NO ONE knows if we overpaid or underpaid until perhaps 4+ years out.

If he's Peyton Manning we underpaid.
If he's Ryan Leaf or just average we overpaid.

But no one can make that claim right now. We needed a great QB and made the move we had to in trying to get one. We could continue to wallow in mediocrity or make a bold move to try to get better. No risk - no reward.

The franchise will be worth watching again regardless and that's something no one can disagree with. Enjoy the ride or get off the bus.

[Backpack3r]

Told ya it would be a hefty price. I believe this to be a very bad trade for us if we pick RG3. If he's mediocre or another Michael Vick, then we failed. We will push the rebuilding back to like what the Falcons have been through (a dozen years?). Yeah, the Falcons have made the playoffs with Vick, but with this kind of trade we would expect Super Bowls or, at the least, consistent playoff appearances, like a Peyton Manning, which Vick couldn't do. The risk/reward is too great here for someone who's not considered a "sure thing". This team has some bad karma or a curse on it.

However, if Luck refuses to play for Indy, then this trade would be worth it, because I see multiple Super Bowls in his future with the right team. Since Indy is gutting their roster, maybe this is a possibility. This would be my hope. :logo:

He is nothing like Vick, except his speed. I saw some plays where RG3 would stay in the pocket and take the hit and make a beautiful throw. If that was Vick he would have rolled around and took off. Pass first dude.

[Bliz]

Your signature, Brian B. is an idiot if he just compares RG3 to other black qbs. I think RG3 has a better arm than Luck, and most white qbs that have come out as well. Surround him with enough talent, and support, and RG3 can light the league on fire.

I think his point was to talk about QBs who can run, not "black qbs." Tebow for example.

People forget that Vick had a gun, and was not a bad passer when he came out. He just didn't work hard to develop that part of his game, and was too quick to abandon the pass. That doesn't mean he didn't have the ability.

[HailGreen28]

That represents the incremental cost of the move. Thank you! Not a point I was going to post on, but I just could not think of what the proper term was for that! :notworthy:

[hunterx]

This only makes sense if you could guarentuee a SB with those picks instead. You cant. The only difference is one side of this trade solves the one position every team has to have solved in order to win consistently. The other side has a bunch of players that can help get you there, but don't guarentuee anything else.

Can you guarantee a superbowl drafting anyone else with those picks? This is a crock. Look at how many super bowls our first round picks of the last 20 years have netted us.

[Veretax]

You guys need to lighten up. this is the Gross Vs Net discussion. The ones insisting it Cost us 3 First Rounders? (we had #6 by default this year and still pick #2 now), You are arguing Gross. You are in essence arguing that any pick in the Draft is a cost. So Orakpo, Williams, Kerrigan, all costs? really? Wow. The problem is someone has to play QB, someone has to be a starter, and really its a net of 2 Firsts, with the additional second this year. I'm Sorry, but the marginal difference between the two deals is 2 Firsts, not Three. Deal with that accounting if you don't like it, that's the truth.

If both Sonny and Sam are buying a car. and Both have about 100K set aside for it, but Sam decides hey, I'd like that better car and throws in 250K more? Yeah it cost him 350K, but compared to Sonny, it only cost him 250K more. The difference is here in the draft that First Round pick St Louis and Washington started with are there by default. SO the net of the two essentially cancels out as far as # of picks goes. Even though the Rams pick is worth more, due to more possible picks out there.

[terpfan]

Arguing the semantics of this trade is one of the more ridiculous things I've ever seen on this board. And that's saying a lot.

[CarolinaPride]

I think his point was to talk about QBs who can flat out RUN, not "black qbs."

Hopefully. Love Cam, and love my Panthers, but RG3 is light years ahead of where Cam was coming out of college, as a thrower, and he's light years ahead of most qbs , as a passer, straight from college.

[AKM311]

Can you guarantee a superbowl drafting anyone else with those picks? This is a crock. Look at how many super bowls our first round picks of the last 20 years have netted us.

I am pro-trade bro. Re-read what I wrote and what it was in response to.

[Rocky52Mc]

How can you honestly be upset when we needed this?

Look at the Julio Jones trade lol

Two 1st round picks, 2nd round pick, Two Fourth round picks.

Yea, I'm not that upset...

[endzone_dave]

People who think we overpaid need to step off the ledge. The truth is NO ONE knows if we overpaid or underpaid until perhaps 4+ years out.

If he's Peyton Manning we underpaid.
If he's Ryan Leaf or just average we overpaid.

But no one can make that claim right now. We needed a great QB and made the move we had to in trying to get one. We could continue to wallow in mediocrity or make a bold move to try to get better. No risk - no reward.

The franchise will be worth watching again regardless and that's something no one can disagree with. Enjoy the ride or get off the bus.

Perfectly said.

[TotalRecall]

When you draft a QB in the first round, you have effectively traded your #1 pick for that QB. Therefore, we gave up 3 1st rounders and 1 second rounder, and in exchange we got RG3. Is there any QB in the league that is worth 3 first rounders? Probably not, and I think when we enter next year's draft and the draft after that hamstrung by our decision this year, the reality will start to hit everyone in just how much we gave up.

Yeah, I wonder if people here would still be happy with this trade if we got Aaron Rodgers instead. I doubt it and he's proven himself in the NFL.

[wysknz1]

.just hope we have enough around him to win SBs. It took Davis to get Elway his. But Shanny should know this.........:point2sky

[terpfan]

Yeah, I wonder if people here would still be happy with this trade if we got Aaron Rodgers instead. I doubt it and he's proven himself in the NFL.

Wait, what?

[Daaskins]

Nope he had it right. 3rd round. Jarvis Jenkins was our 2nd round pick.

we had 2 seconds dog?

[The Dude]

No cost is too high for RGIII. When you can acquire a future HOFer at the beginning of his career, you do it.

I can't believe we swindled this pick from the Rams!

[ncr2h]

Yeah, I wonder if people here would still be happy with this trade if we got Aaron Rodgers instead. I doubt it and he's proven himself in the NFL.

You read my mind.

There is not 1 QB in the NFL that is worth 3 #1 picks and a #2. Not one.

Yet we blew all that on a guy who hasn't even played a snap in the NFL.

---------- Post added March-10th-2012 at 12:48 PM ----------


You guys need to lighten up. this is the Gross Vs Net discussion. The ones insisting it Cost us 3 First Rounders? (we had #6 by default this year and still pick #2 now), You are arguing Gross. You are in essence arguing that any pick in the Draft is a cost. So Orakpo, Williams, Kerrigan, all costs? really? Wow. The problem is someone has to play QB, someone has to be a starter, and really its a net of 2 Firsts, with the additional second this year. I'm Sorry, but the marginal difference between the two deals is 2 Firsts, not Three. Deal with that accounting if you don't like it, that's the truth.

If both Sonny and Sam are buying a car. and Both have about 100K set aside for it, but Sam decides hey, I'd like that better car and throws in 250K more? Yeah it cost him 350K, but compared to Sonny, it only cost him 250K more. The difference is here in the draft that First Round pick St Louis and Washington started with are there by default. SO the net of the two essentially cancels out as far as # of picks goes. Even though the Rams pick is worth more, due to more possible picks out there.

What you don't understand is that Sonny could have said, "Screw it, I don't need a car this year. I'll use the old car that I have, and use my $100K on buying something else that I need." You operate under the assumption that somebody was holding a gun to Allen's head and saying he had to use his pick in the draft. He could have offered 3 #1s and a #2 to the Packers, or any number of other teams, in exchange for their proven vet QBs.

[Taylor703]

You read my mind.

There is not 1 QB in the NFL that is worth 3 #1 picks and a #2. Not one.

Yet we blew all that on a guy who hasn't even played a snap in the NFL.

Unbelievable. Do people really believe this is still the 80's where you can build a solid OL and just run over everybody? The rules have set the league up to be pass-happy, this is now the premium on QB's and we paid. Redskins fans are never going to be happy no matter what the organization does.

[ConnSKINS26]

we had 2 seconds dog?

We traded down with the other one. Pay attention.

[Redskins2up2downVA]

People that are having a fit because of the cost need to remember the Carson Palmer trade.
Carson was good but never elite in my opinion, and not saying its normal, but the Raiders were willing to trade 2 first rounders. Not only for an old QB, but one that sat out an entire year. We traded 2 firsts and a 2nd for a 22 YO prospect who could be better and gives us hope like no one could imagine.
So remember, i know its the Raiders and they make odd decisions. And come to think of it, they didn't have 4 teams fighting for him. Only 1. So the 2 firsts and 2nd is VERY comparable to the Palmer deal. Then they had to pay him like an elite QB.

[redskinss]

[QUOTE=ncr2h;8875914]You read my mind.

There is not 1 QB in the NFL that is worth 3 #1 picks and a #2. Not one.

Yet we blew all that on a guy who hasn't even played a snap in the NFL.[COLOR="Gold"]

Actualy he didnt. I'm pretty sure he was saying people would be pissed despite the fact that we would be fleecing
The packers in that deal. And no I don't agree that the best quarterbacks in the leauge in there prime aren't worth three firsts and a two

[HeluCopter29]

Here's my thought on the pick debate:

If you want to say Griffin is going to cost us 3 1st rounders, I can buy that. He's basically our 2012, 2013, and 2014 1st round pick.

If you want to say we traded 3 1st round picks, sure we did. But we're also getting one back so really it cost us 2 1st rounders to swap 2012 1st rounders.

This. Times 1 bazillion thousand hundred catrillion.

[Destino]

You read my mind.

There is not 1 QB in the NFL that is worth 3 #1 picks and a #2. Not one.

Yet we blew all that on a guy who hasn't even played a snap in the NFL.

What you don't understand is that Sonny could have said, "Screw it, I don't need a car this year. I'll use the old car that I have, and use my $100K on buying something else that I need." You operate under the assumption that somebody was holding a gun to Allen's head and saying he had to use his pick in the draft. He could have offered 3 #1s and a #2 to the Packers, or any number of other teams, in exchange for their proven vet QBs.

Two things:
1 - I would be executing a one man parade down the street if we traded for Aaron Rodgers and got him. I imagine as the news broke other skins fans would rush out of their homes and join me as I worked my way down the street. Three first round picks and a second would be a small price to pay to land the best QB in the NFL at 28 years old.

2 - There is no way that the Packers would trade Aaron Rodgers. You could offer them 5 first round picks and they'd laugh at you.

[Gridiron Grunt]

Unbelievable. Do people really believe this is still the 80's where you can build a solid OL and just run over everybody? The rules have set the league up to be pass-happy, this is now the premium on QB's and we paid. Redskins fans are never going to be happy no matter what the organization does.

Just sit back, ignore the dummies, and bask in the glory. People like him will never be happy and be highly critical of our new QB after every little mistake. It's a miserable existence and steering clear now will save you aggravation down the line. Hail!

[HeluCopter29]

2 things.

1. The rest of the team really isn't that bad guys. The QB play has been so atrocious that it really has negated any of the talent we have/had. When Rex was playing well, the rest of the team played well. When he wasn't.... not so much. That's not just game to game either. I'm talking series to series, play to play.

2. We traded away our 2013 and 2014 1st round picks away. We still have a 2012 first round pick. We still have one, it's just a higher pick. There's a difference between "swapping" something and trading something away. I don't think anyone thought we'd be able to trade up without trading #6.

[TotalRecall]

You read my mind.

There is not 1 QB in the NFL that is worth 3 #1 picks and a #2. Not one.

Yet we blew all that on a guy who hasn't even played a snap in the NFL.



Yep. This is really 4 first rounders. The 2nd round pick is the 7th in the 2nd round which is considered a late 1st rounder because the first round talent is usually still around then. And I doubt RG3 will do much better this season than Cam Newton in 2011. So, it's at least 2 top-10 picks right there.

[Veretax]

What you don't understand is that Sonny could have said, "Screw it, I don't need a car this year. I'll use the old car that I have, and use my $100K on buying something else that I need." You operate under the assumption that somebody was holding a gun to Allen's head and saying he had to use his pick in the draft. He could have offered 3 #1s and a #2 to the Packers, or any number of other teams, in exchange for their proven vet QBs.

Okay, that's a fair point of view. So you would argue with going with Beck or Grossman another year then? What do you do at #6. That's what I want to know. If you stay put at #6, who's our man?

[Taylor703]

Yep. This is really 4 first rounders. The 2nd round pick is the 7th in the 2nd round which is considered a late 1st rounder because the first round talent is usually still around then. And I doubt RG3 will do much better this season than Cam Newton in 2011. So, it's at least 2 top-10 picks right there.

No it's not considered a first round pick. Where do you guys come up with this stuff?

[jflow78]

Two things:
1 - I would be executing a one man parade down the street if we traded for Aaron Rodgers and got him. I imagine as the news broke other skins fans would rush out of their homes and join me as I worked my way down the street. Three first round picks and a second would be a small price to pay to land the best QB in the NFL at 28 years old.

2 - There is no way that the Packers would trade Aaron Rodgers. You could offer them 5 first round picks and they'd laugh at you.

and people seem to be ignoring the fact that there were several teams offering close to, if not the same deal, and this is how trades are going to be from now on. The rookie wage scale has made the cost of trading up more expensive because we're now paying our top 5 QB $6 million per season instead of $23 million per season.

Also, if Peyton were in his prime, I would have traded 3 firsts in a heartbeat. See the difference a GREAT QB made in Indy. He was the difference between a perennial playoff team and the worst team in the NFL. No combination of #1 picks (other than a QB which is what we're getting) would have made that kind of a difference.

I felt iffy about the trade yesterday, glad but iffy, now I'm feeling much better.

---------- Post added March-10th-2012 at 02:00 PM ----------


Yep. This is really 4 first rounders. The 2nd round pick is the 7th in the 2nd round which is considered a late 1st rounder because the first round talent is usually still around then. And I doubt RG3 will do much better this season than Cam Newton in 2011. So, it's at least 2 top-10 picks right there.

No it's not considered a first rounder, the future first rounders aren't even considered a first rounder. They're valued at a mid 2nd round pick in any trade deal.

[Skillari]

Same old $h1t different regime. Any one on here defending this trade is an idiot and deserve the mediocrity that this team is. Even Ditka wasn't this dumb.

[respectgibbs]

At least season tickets will get cheaper in a few years when we realize how much of a bust this was.

[Alvin_Walton40]

Hilarious...this should be the best day for a Skins fan in the last 20 years. Pretty amazed that the this move isn't universally adored by the fan base. I have lived thru so many first round busts that trading a couple of future picks isn't a big deal at all for the potential of RG3.

[Poman]

Same old $h1t different regime. Any one on here defending this trade is an idiot and deserve the mediocrity that this team is. Even Ditka wasn't this dumb.

At least I'm a happy idiot for now. Hail!

[Fight4RGIII]

Same old $h1t different regime. Any one on here defending this trade is an idiot and deserve the mediocrity that this team is. Even Ditka wasn't this dumb.


At least season tickets will get cheaper in a few years when we realize how much of a bust this was.

https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSMWbgOVgw0lS2sSE4GpbEm7WbR6-iaz94TstnCudoFqydbhA6c

[War Paint]

Unbelievable. Do people really believe this is still the 80's where you can build a solid OL and just run over everybody? The rules have set the league up to be pass-happy, this is now the premium on QB's and we paid. Redskins fans are never going to be happy no matter what the organization does.

I think most Redskin fans are happy. The Redskins have a very large and diverse fan base. You will always have some fans stuck in the 80's, thinking you don't need an elite QB to win.

[skinsfansince1988]

if some of you would prefer to have Orton so we can have those two picks to draft who knows who, we won't win without a QB, we are set for the next decade, what is there to be upset about

[Taylor703]

Same old $h1t different regime. Any one on here defending this trade is an idiot and deserve the mediocrity that this team is. Even Ditka wasn't this dumb.

Ditka traded nearly two entire drafts for a RB. That trade was far worse.

But yes the same old, same old. I really hate the fact that we constantly trade draft picks for 22-year old, stud QB's.

[Unforgiven]

Same old $h1t different regime. Any one on here defending this trade is an idiot and deserve the mediocrity that this team is. Even Ditka wasn't this dumb.

You know what they say about opinions...

Also, bypassing the profanity filter by using other characters is probably going to draw the attention of the mods..

[jflow78]

Same old $h1t different regime. Any one on here defending this trade is an idiot and deserve the mediocrity that this team is. Even Ditka wasn't this dumb.

You obviously don't understand that the trade value chart is no longer used because the actual contract you're giving a top 5 pick is 1/4 what it used to be. This type of deal will be the norm from now on. Not sure why so many people are so down on this trade when we are missing on pick for the next 3 drafts (and still have 8 picks in this draft).

But go ahead and keep calling people idiots, I'm sure you'll be on here for a long time.:thumbsup:

[Jumbo]

No it's not considered a first round pick. Where do you guys come up with this stuff?


Much of that type of formulating, factoring, and analysis we're seeing in the last couple pages are pulled form The Rectal Research Center located in Nether Orifice.

[Ashburn Dave]

This is an incredible amount to to trade away just to move up 4 spots but we had to get it done. It doesn't matter to me if we get RGIII or Luck because both QB's are exactly what this team has been lacking for so long.

What this means for us is:

- no more wondering about why Peyton didn't want to come to the Redskins
- no more discussions about scrapping our offensive style to support Peyton if we did get him
- if we do tailor our offense for Peyton what that does to us long term when he retires
- no more worrying about if we did get Peyton if his neck is fully healed
- this should provide Shanny with another 2-3 years so he can fulfill his contract and we have stability in the coaching staff
- our WR's just got better because we will have an accurate passer that can hit them in stride
- our RB's just got better because defenses will have to respect our passing game
- our DEF just got better because we'll score more points and with the lead they can get more aggressive
- I want to say our OL just got better because the QB should have a quicker release but we need to see this happen first
- no more wondering if we didn't make the trade who our QB was going to be next year
- no more Rex
- no more Beck
- Kyle has a young QB that will look up to him and respect his coaching
- the face of the franchise will change for the better

[jflow78]

Much of that type of formulating, factoring, and analysis we're seeing in the last couple pages are pulled form The Rectal Research Center located in Nether Orifice.

:ols: And here I was thinking it was all just a bunch of ****.

[Brant]

Redskins fans are never going to be happy no matter what the organization does.

Bingo!

I, for one, am going to enjoy the ride.

[SkinsTight]

been depressed and lounging around in bed for the last few days since my Hoyas lost to the bearcats in the BE Tourney. This news finally got me feellig much better. I am not going to get into about some of your complaints about we giving up the house for RG3, righ tnow I am just yeeeehawiiiing about our future franchise QB. GO SKINSSSSS!

[storretti]

Same old $h1t different regime. Any one on here defending this trade is an idiot and deserve the mediocrity that this team is. Even Ditka wasn't this dumb.
And of course, if the Skins were to win a Super Bowl or two with RG3 being the main reason why we won, then would you feel like an idiot for denouncing this trade?

Its an honest question.

I know that even if RG3 doesn't pan out, I still wouldn't be that upset because for the first time in a long time, I actually have hope. And lets be honest, the Skins are pretty much due to select a 1st round QB and that Qb ends up not becoming a bust. We are due to finally hit one out of the park

[Crazy Levi]

Bingo!

I, for one, am going to enjoy the ride.

Not Bingo.

If the team starts winning, fans will be happy. Simple as that.

[Jumbo]

Same old $h1t different regime. Any one on here defending this trade is an idiot and deserve the mediocrity that this team is. Even Ditka wasn't this dumb.

Well sunshine, I can try to help you manage the pain (or at least it manifesting here) by giving you the week off for the rule 6 violation and another for a rule 5/12 combo package. Go out and play! Yay! :)

[Taylor703]

And of course, if the Skins were to win a Super Bowl or two with RG3 being the main reason why we won, then would you feel like an idiot for denouncing this trade?

They would downplay the Super Bowl victory, claiming our trading of draft picks will keep us from repeating as champions.

[respectgibbs]

And of course, if the Skins were to win a Super Bowl or two with RG3 being the main reason why we won, then would you feel like an idiot for denouncing this trade?

Partially. In hindsight the trade may look much better - but the fact remains that it was still a very risky and overpaid trade. You could gamble your savings on red or black in Vegas and get it right - just because you'll feel good about it doesn't mean it was a good decision in the first place.

[War Paint]

if some of you would prefer to have Orton so we can have those two picks to draft who knows who, we won't win without a QB, we are set for the next decade, what is there to be upset about

People are idiots. If we kept those two 1st round picks and drafted a good CB and a good lineman, we'd still suck with trash at QB. I don't care how many Kerrigans, Orakpos, etc you draft. You're going to struggle to be even 8-8 with mediocre/bad QBing. The only difference between us and the Cowboys is that their "Colt Brennan" turned out to be very good. The only difference between the Cowboys and the Super Bowl champ Giants is that the Giants turn it up and play better when their backs are against the wall. The Cowboys fold.

It's just best to ignore the cry babies, but we should remember their names so if RG3 turns out like we all hope, they don't come here celebrating and sharing the happiness with everyone after they've been dropping turds in the punch bowl.

[Jumbo]

Not Bingo.

If the team starts winning, fans will be happy. Simple as that.


You know what's even more simple? Pulling one's head out of one's ass and noticing what's right in front of one's face---namely, that thousands of fans are very clearly quite happy NOW right in the moment, whatever the future holds. That's what's really simple. Not that such needs to be the case for everyone, or reflects the only vaild perspective on the trade. I'm just pointing out stupid where I see it.

[jflow78]

Well, I am done justifying the reason I feel good about this, I'm also ignoring the negativity because today is a day to enjoy.

Is it just me, or do RG3's highlights look better than anyone else's? There's NEVER been a guy like this in the NFL.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpMWjmfwhCg

[Alvin_Walton40]

Well, I am done justifying the reason I feel good about this, I'm also ignoring the negativity because today is a day to enjoy.

Is it just me, or do RG3's highlights look better than anyone else's? There's NEVER been a guy like this in the NFL.

<Staff edit rule 11 violation of quoting pic/gif/video---ban suspedned>


It is not just you. I think i spent 3 hours last night looking up you tube on RG3.

[respectgibbs]

You know what's even more simple? Pulling one's head out of one's ass and noticing what's right in front of one's face---namely, that thousands of fans are very clearly quite happy NOW right in the moment, whatever the future holds. That's what's really simple. Not that such needs to be the case for everyone, or reflects the only vaild perspective on the trade. I'm just pointing out stupid where I see it.

What's your point? That because thousands of fans are happy that it was a good trade? That these fans are so desperate and eager to have hope in a QB that they're choosing to accept (at best, ignore at worst) how lopsided and risky this trade was? You think it's not a valid argument to say that this was a mistake because Skins fans need a moment to celebrate another off-season victory right now?

[authentic]

Partially. In hindsight the trade may look much better - but the fact remains that it was still a very risky and overpaid trade. You could gamble your savings on red or black in Vegas and get it right - just because you'll feel good about it doesn't mean it was a good decision in the first place.

No doubt it was risky, but i ask: What where the other options? Rather, where there better options in addressing the QB position this year?

[thelongestbreath]

So with all this news coming out everyone has been so excited to get RGIII yet has anyone taken into account the colts could change their mind. I wouldn't jump out and buy my RGIII jersey too quickly. I'm excited to be at two so we get one or the other but its not 100% him yet.

[Crazy Levi]

You know what's even more simple? Pulling one's head out of one's ass and noticing what's right in front of one's face---namely, that thousands of fans are very clearly quite happy NOW right in the moment, whatever the future holds. That's what's really simple. Not that such needs to be the case for everyone, or reflects the only vaild perspective on the trade. I'm just pointing out stupid where I see it.

It's all so simple!!!!

But for real, if the Skins start actually winning, that'll make most Redskins fans happy.

I think it doesn't get any simpler than that.

Double Bingo!

[SkInZKId2121]

Two things:
1 - I would be executing a one man parade down the street if we traded for Aaron Rodgers and got him. I imagine as the news broke other skins fans would rush out of their homes and join me as I worked my way down the street. Three first round picks and a second would be a small price to pay to land the best QB in the NFL at 28 years old.



:ols: Agreed 100% I would be next to you running down the street

[GoSkins0721]

I think most Redskin fans are happy. The Redskins have a very large and diverse fan base. You will always have some fans stuck in the 80's, thinking you don't need an elite QB to win.

I've been around this here neck of the woods long enough to remember some of the great 1st round busts picked by many GMs & owners. Yazoo Smith...Charlie Gogolak...Bobby Wilson...

And I remember one of the biggest Heisman flops of all time who the Skins acquired in a trade before his rookie season: Gary Beban. The LA Rams hated him so much (after they drafted him #30) they traded him to the Skins before the season started. George Allen thought he would lead the team after Sonny retired. Not so much.

So giving away 1st round picks is nothing new around here. Picking flops in the 1st round is nothing new around here, either.

But this time, I really think it will be different. RGIII has it: skill, athleticism, smarts, attitude.

It's gonna be different this time...

[storretti]

Partially. In hindsight the trade may look much better - but the fact remains that it was still a very risky and overpaid trade. You could gamble your savings on red or black in Vegas and get it right - just because you'll feel good about it doesn't mean it was a good decision in the first place.

But if it works out, and the trade was the reason why it worked out. Then should it show that RG3 was worth 2 other possible starters. If we win, lets say 3 superbowls during RG3 tenure, then I honestly think that this was the greatest trade ever for this organization. We gave up two first rounders and a second rounder for 3 super bowls. Who wouldn't do that. Obviously I am just dreaming, but I do think that RG3 has the ability to keep the Skins in constant playoff contention, and everybody knows, anything can happen in the playoffs.


To me, it almost seems like the guys who hate this trade rather have first round picks instead of super bowls. I for one think that this trade will get us to a super bowl sooner than it would if we kept those other first round picks. And that is all I care about, super bowls, not first round picks.

[Crazy Levi]

What's your point? That because thousands of fans are happy that it was a good trade? That these fans are so desperate and eager to have hope in a QB that they're choosing to accept (at best, ignore at worst) how lopsided and risky this trade was? You think it's not a valid argument to say that this was a mistake because Skins fans need a moment to celebrate another off-season victory right now?

I think his point is that if you don't give your 100%, unconditional blessing on this deal, and slather it with a hummer that would make Linda Lovelace blush, you have your head up your ass.

I think that's what he's saying. It's so simple!

[terpskins10]

So with all this news coming out everyone has been so excited to get RGIII yet has anyone taken into account the colts could change their mind. I wouldn't jump out and buy my RGIII jersey too quickly. I'm excited to be at two so we get one or the other but its not 100% him yet.

I don't see it happening, but trust me, I won't cry if we end up with Andrew Luck lol

[Pick6]

Offer two firsts and a third. If the Browns beat that, sign Flynn or easily draft any QB not named Luck or Griffin with our #6. Continue to build the team the right way, patiently through the draft.

I'm just saying Mike Shanahan just pushed practically all his chips into the pot, with this trade. He has three seasons max for it to pan out.

I guess to me that is just a loser mentality, because clearly from the looks of it, Bruce/Mike didn't like anything outside of Luck/RG3. So you are okay with drafting a guy who may just be mediocre at #6 and probably a two year project? I think people are missing that fact that MS has been watch college film since the middle of the regular and I don't think he really liked much outside of Luck/RG3 and I don't blame him. Tannehill won 3rd best QB, because two guys dropped out of the race.

I trust in Shanny and clearly he felt this decision was worth it.

[Crazy Levi]

No doubt it was risky, but i ask: What where the other options? Rather, where there better options in addressing the QB position this year?

We could have made a run at Matt Flynn and kept our draft picks, and build a hell of a team around him.

That's not what happened. I can accept it, happily. Hope it pans out.

[comtech968]

Bruce Allen learned from his dad. the future is now!! great move

[respectgibbs]

But if it works out, and the trade was the reason why it worked out. Then should it show that RG3 was worth 2 other possible starters. If we win, lets say 3 superbowls during RG3 tenure, then I honestly think that it was the greatest trade ever for this organization. We gave up two first rounders and a second rounder for 3 super bowls. Who wouldn't do that. Obviously I am just dreaming, but I do think that RG3 has the ability to keep the Skins in constant playoff contention, and everybody knows, anything can happen in the playoffs.

That's fine - yes, a risky bet can pay off and pay off big. The trade will look great if we get 3 SBs from RG3 obviously.

But I have to wonder why franchises like the Patriots and Steelers don't need to do things like this. I thought bringing in Bruce was going to change us into those types of franchises - you know, the ones that build slowly and with long-lasting stability. You don't do that by making this trade. This reeks of desperation on part by Danny (who needs to sell tickets) and Shanny (who needs to keep his job). I have to believe if Shanny felt his job was safe with another mediocre year of rebuilding a team in the image of other great franchises he wouldn't have took this risk. In other words, I feel this all still stems from Danny's impatience.

[GaryGreenMonk]

Think of it this way guys... we have TONS of cap room.

Say we address these areas in FA with our massive cap space...

1) Stud WR.. 2) Good/Stud RT... 3) Good/Stud SS

o.k.. now in this draft after Griffin.. we'll have a 3, 4, 4, 5, 6, 7, 7 ... we have all those picks left to address OL depth, maybe a CB... maybe a MLB... then some flyers with the 5, 6, 7, 7

Next year.. we'll have our 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... whatever we weren't able to address successfully in FA this year.. we can fill a hole with our 2 and 3.

If FA this year goes as planned... I don't forsee this team having more than a handful of weak spots... which is good in the NFL for any team.

If we re-sign Fletch, that will solve that problem for at least another 2 years.

I think our biggest targets this FA should be stud WR and a good SS. all our picks should be used for OL Depth and a CB or 2.

What holes will we have then? starts to become hard to find them.

we can be a very solid team this year if all goes well. Don't forget all the players we get back from injury.. Hightower, Kory L, Hank, Jenkins, Cooley..

I honestly think MS saw the time coming that he would have to trade picks for a QB... so he left himself with massive cap room to make up for a few lost picks and to fill those needs with FA instead.

[authentic]

We could have made a run at Matt Flynn and kept our draft picks, and build a hell of a team around him.

That's not what happened. I can accept it, happily. Hope it pans out.

Yet its been reported by the inside guys that the Skins FO along with other league execs doesn't identify Flynn as a franchise QB. If someone like RG3 gives you a better chance to win, then why not make the provisions to get him? Also its not like we gave up the farm as some are implying, we still have 7 picks this year. And our scouts for the past 2 seasons have identified some decent talent.. On top of that we still have FA on tuesday.

[thelongestbreath]

....but trust me, I won't cry if we end up with Andrew Luck lol


Neither would I, but it would seem a bit early to run out in the street to thank god for griffen when there is still a team ahead of us who could easily change their mind on what they want. Stranger things have happened.

[Jumbo]

What's your point? That because thousands of fans are happy that it was a good trade? That these fans are so desperate and eager to have hope in a QB that they're choosing to accept (at best, ignore at worst) how lopsided and risky this trade was? You think it's not a valid argument to say that this was a mistake because Skins fans need a moment to celebrate another off-season victory right now?

Ok. More stupid to point out.

My post was repsonding to another member's post, stating peple were happy now--which was precisely appropriate to the post I responded to (and quoted). If you could read and comprehend at this time (already in question), you'd see that the rest of what I wrote negates the words you're trying to put in my mouth (as do many of my other posts on the matter since last night and well before, though I don't expect you to be aware). If you make another response to me, try not to appear that you have no interest in paying attention or thinking about what you just read. It's better to make those posts to someone else. :)

[MartinC]

Bruce Allen learned from his dad. the future is now!! great move

Not so much - George was not big on betting the farm on rookies, he would have traded the draft picks on veterans and he would have LOVED free agency though the cap would have cramped his style a bit.

It is a good move though, it's a risk but one worth taking.

[jflow78]

Partially. In hindsight the trade may look much better - but the fact remains that it was still a very risky and overpaid trade. You could gamble your savings on red or black in Vegas and get it right - just because you'll feel good about it doesn't mean it was a good decision in the first place.

Except that you're gambling anyway. People act like those 3 picks we lost were sure to be successes more than Griffin. That makes no sense. This guy is lauded by EVERYONE. Who knows where we'd be picking with those other picks, who would be available, whether we'd be in any position to even trade and get a QB, or what their talent level would be. Truth is, yes this was a big gamble, but every pick is a gamble. You're not betting everything on black or red, you're gambling all those things on a likely win, instead of making 3 other bets on what might be less "sure things".

[Crazy Levi]

Yet its been reported by the inside guys that the Skins FO along with other league execs doesn't identify Flynn as a franchise QB. If someone like RG3 gives you a better chance to win, then why not make the provisions to get him? Also its not like we gave up the farm as some are implying, we still have 7 picks this year. And our scouts for the past 2 seasons have identified some decent talent.. On top of that we still have FA on tuesday.

I UNDERSTAND THAT.

I want to make it clear that it's OVER, and I don't feel like arguing about something that is yesterday's news. I - personally - would have liked to see us make a run at Flynn, and keep our picks. Ain't what happened.

I'm on board with RG3. I'm excited about it. I hope it works out. Just pointing out that there WERE alternatives - whereas people keep making it seem like we had absolutely no choice but to make yesterday's deal.

Seems to me like people who are in love with this deal - head over heels - want to argue about this more than people who aren't.

[storretti]

That's fine - yes, a risky bet can pay off and pay off big. The trade will look great if we get 3 SBs from RG3 obviously.

But I have to wonder why franchises like the Patriots and Steelers don't need to do things like this. I thought bringing in Bruce was going to change us into those types of franchises - you know, the ones that build slowly and with long-lasting stability. You don't do that by making this trade. This reeks of desperation on part by Danny (who needs to sell tickets) and Shanny (who needs to keep his job). I have to believe if Shanny felt his job was safe with another mediocre year of rebuilding a team in the image of other great franchises he wouldn't have took this risk. In other words, I feel this all still stems from Danny's impatience.

Because the Patriots hit the ultimate lottery in a 6th round pick becoming one of the best QBs of all time, and the Steelers have been lucky in having a really good QB fall to them both times they went on there Super Bowl runs. We have not been so lucky, so that is why we have to do something extreme to wright the ship.

[Alvin_Walton40]

That's fine - yes, a risky bet can pay off and pay off big. The trade will look great if we get 3 SBs from RG3 obviously.

But I have to wonder why franchises like the Patriots and Steelers don't need to do things like this. I thought bringing in Bruce was going to change us into those types of franchises - you know, the ones that build slowly and with long-lasting stability. You don't do that by making this trade. This reeks of desperation on part by Danny (who needs to sell tickets) and Shanny (who needs to keep his job). I have to believe if Shanny felt his job was safe with another mediocre year of rebuilding a team in the image of other great franchises he wouldn't have took this risk. In other words, I feel this all still stems from Danny's impatience.


3 Super Bowls...really? Drama Queen much? So a first round pick = Super Bowl in your world?

[authentic]

I UNDERSTAND THAT.

I want to make it clear that it's OVER, and I don't feel like arguing about something that is yesterday's news. I - personally - would have liked to see us make a run at Flynn, and keep our picks. Ain't what happened.

I'm on board with RG3. I'm excited about it. I hope it works out. Just pointing out that there WERE alternatives - whereas people keep making it seem like we had absolutely no choice but to make yesterday's deal.

Seems to me like people who are in love with this deal - head over heels - want to argue about this more than people who aren't.

yeah, he was an option, but we would have likely over paid for him. The QB market in FA is pretty slim outside of Manning and Flynn. Who ever acquires Flynn is going to pay TOP $$..

[DexterSackMachine]

For the few doubters out there, remember that a 2014 first round draft pick is worth allot less in 2012. I was skeptical about the high draft pick cost of this deal leading up to it, but I actually like the way they spread the picks out over three years. It means that no one draft is totally a washout, they'll still have a chance to add quality players each year with only one less pick. Bravo to Shanny/Allen for making this happen.

[respectgibbs]

Ok. More stupid to point out.

My post was repsonding to another member's post, stating peple were happy now--which was precisely appropriate to the post I responded to (and quoted). If you could read and comprehend at this time (already in question), you'd see that the rest of what I wrote negates the words you're trying to put in my mouth (as do many of my other posts on the matter since last night and well before, though I don't expect you to be aware). If you make another response to me, try not to appear that you have no interest in paying attention or thinking about what you just read. It's better to make those posts to someone else. :)

Sorry, I must have lost some context in the sea of posts. I guess I still don't know where you stand on this because your responses seem a bit circuitous.

[Bantu]

That's fine - yes, a risky bet can pay off and pay off big. The trade will look great if we get 3 SBs from RG3 obviously.

But I have to wonder why franchises like the Patriots and Steelers don't need to do things like this. I thought bringing in Bruce was going to change us into those types of franchises - you know, the ones that build slowly and with long-lasting stability. You don't do that by making this trade. This reeks of desperation on part by Danny (who needs to sell tickets) and Shanny (who needs to keep his job). I have to believe if Shanny felt his job was safe with another mediocre year of rebuilding a team in the image of other great franchises he wouldn't have took this risk. In other words, I feel this all still stems from Danny's impatience.

The Steelers & Pats were lucky enough to have stud QBs fall into their lap and have been able to retool their rosters easily because of that. The new CBA and subsequent rookie pay scale make these types of moves more plausible for teams. Giving up 1st rounders is always a steep price, but Shanny didn't give up multiple picks in one draft so we atleast still have a good amount of picks to use even though the 1st rounders are gone.

[Crazy Levi]

yeah, he was an option, but we would have likely over paid for him. The QB market in FA is pretty slim outside of Manning and Flynn. Who ever acquires Flynn is going to pay TOP $$..

This is true. Yesterday, I saw LOTS of options. Flynn, Manning, Sanchez, even McCoy, all guys who would maybe be moving around. Right now it's much clearer.

Not sure how well FLynn will do. Clearly, he's second prize - a distant second - at this point to Manning. Someone might get a relative bargain with him.

[jnhay]

3 Super Bowls...really? Drama Queen much? So a first round pick = Super Bowl in your world?
To say it'd be great that a 2nd overall pick QB could lead his team to 3 super bowls over his entire career isn't that dramatic.

[jflow78]

Oops, I forgot, I'm ignoring the negativity.

That last one even got my 3 year old dancing. Here's the official video made by Baylor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdNnvnlTmbA

[respectgibbs]

The Steelers & Pats were lucky enough to have stud QBs fall into their lap and have been able to retool their rosters easily because of that. The new CBA and subsequent rookie pay scale make these types of moves more plausible for teams. Giving up 1st rounders is always a steep price, but Shanny didn't give up multiple picks in one draft so we atleast still have a good amount of picks to use even though the 1st rounders are gone.

You can call it luck or just superior scouting which led to their QB picks.

[Jumbo]

I need a favor from you guys. Since last night I have edited many posts that have violated rule 11 without giving the normally automatic one-week ban, because of not wanting to have people miss the special event of RG3 and talking about it in the initial thrill or horror, as the case may be. But it's time consuming and getting really old (annoying) already, so tell your fellow members when you see them quote a video or pic or gif that it's a rule violation (#11) and a one week ban and they need to edit it out themselves to avoid trouble. Spread it to any thread you see it. Thanks, amigos. :)

---------- Post added March-10th-2012 at 10:52 AM ----------


Sorry, I must have lost some context in the sea of posts. I guess I still don't know where you stand on this because your responses seem a bit circuitous.


Frankly, my comments shouldn't seem so to those reading even semi-carefully. Perhaps what you think is circuitous (I am only trying to speculate in a benign way for you) is my regular theme of showing respect for almost all viewpoints on any matter as long as they're stated intelligently.

But as far as I'm concerned we're good and you have no need to apologize. I am simply being a bit firm at times today.

If you're curious for a thorough reiteration of my position on the trade (not covering every angle), the price was one higher than I wanted (the 2014 #1---I was willing to swap this year's #1's and give this year's #2, next years #1, and a mix though of two or three 3-6 rnd picks spread over 2013/2014).

I know what we had to do given the competition, and I know how thoroughly sold on RG3 both Shanny and Bruce were (as well as others relevant in coaching/personnel staff, both on our team and on other teams our guys talk to) so that counts to me. And I know the value of a franchise QB and what the alternatives looked like this year and into the next. And I knew that even the subs on our O-line ended the year playing well and our running game looks strong. Plus I knew that we had a rare year of great salary cap room PLUS a huge and talented FA class to fill needs from (corner/safety/more o-line/wr).Plus I saw that even with the high price we paid, we have all but 3 of the picks we'd have minus the trade anyway (granted they are the 3 top picks). So in the end I am sure all this and more were part of the FO's thinking and I am happy (but by nature and life experience a tad cautious, managing my expectations) we pulled the trigger and I think it makes sense. And now it's the wait and see because you never know. I will say that Luck & RG3 look more solid in top-line potential than all but a very few to have come out. :)

---------- Post added March-10th-2012 at 11:07 AM ----------

The glitch where a mod posts and the thread gets closed occurred. Sorry.:)

[PeterMP]

For the few doubters out there, remember that a 2014 first round draft pick is worth allot less in 2012. I was skeptical about the high draft pick cost of this deal leading up to it, but I actually like the way they spread the picks out over three years. It means that no one draft is totally a washout, they'll still have a chance to add quality players each year with only one less pick. Bravo to Shanny/Allen for making this happen.

I understand where people that likely have a relativley short shelf life with teams, like coaches and GMs, think this way, but I don't think from a fans or owners perspective this makes sense.

The 2014 pick for Shanahan and Allen might have very little value because if they don't show some progress befor that, they are going to be out of jobs. As a fan though that will still be a fan in 2014 and even 2020, the difference in value between 2013, 2014, and 2020 first round picks is essentially equivalent.

Trading a pick that you won't make if things go badly makes sense. For those that will be left behind, it makes less sense.

[HogNose]

I need a favor from you guys. Since last night I have edited many posts that have violated rule 11 without giving the normally automatic one-week ban, because of not wanting to have people miss the special event of RG3 and talking about it in the initial thrill or horror, as the case may be. But it's time consuming and getting really old (annoying) already, so tell your fellow members when you see them quote a video or pic or gif that it's a rule violation (#11) and a one week ban and they need to edit it out themselves to avoid trouble. Spread it to any thread you see it. Thanks, amigos. :)[COLOR="Gold"]

Will do. ;)

[THUNDERDOME]

So we had portis and his costumes ....now we have RGIII and his socks :)

[skinsdomination09]

Gave up three.

Net gave up two.

whatever. get over it.

Call it insane but worst case scenario is we end up fourth in the divison.

Just like we have been since 2008.

No big deal.

Not Rocket science.

[redshirtguy#45]

Gave up three.

Net gave up two.

whatever. get over it.

Call it insane but worst case scenario is we end up fourth in the divison.

Just like we have been since 2008.

No big deal.

Not Rocket science.

yes...

in the end the team hasn't won the nfce since 1999. missed the playoffs a ton since JG1 ended. why so much fear over this. its a gamble, and we shall see how it goes.

[DexterSackMachine]

I understand where people that likely have a relativley short shelf life with teams, like coaches and GMs, think this way, but I don't think from a fans or owners perspective this makes sense.

The 2014 pick for Shanahan and Allen might have very little value because if they don't show some progress befor that, they are going to be out of jobs. As a fan though that will still be a fan in 2014 and even 2020, the difference in value between 2013, 2014, and 2020 first round picks is essentially equivalent.

Trading a pick that you won't make if things go badly makes sense. For those that will be left behind, it makes less sense.

I am talking value as far as trading goes, on the old reliable trade chart. A 2013 first is equivalent to a 2012 second. From a franchise point of view I understand your concern long term, but this is the best shot we've had in 30 plus years at getting a legit top shelf QB. If RG3 turns into what he looks like he should be, then this franchise should be no less than 8-8 for the next decade, teams with great QBs rarely are. The closest we've come to this good a prospect was Heath Shuler in 1994, but he wasn't near the prospect that RG3 is. I say it was a move that had to be made.

[Alvin_Walton40]

To say it'd be great that a 2nd overall pick QB could lead his team to 3 super bowls over his entire career isn't that dramatic.

It is when your franchise hasn't been to the superbowl in 21 years. Lots and lots of first round picks since then.

[jflow78]

Excellent interview by Schefter about RG3 and the trade:

http://www.stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s=65&c=427&f=438301

[mistertim]

At this point I'm pretty much over how much we gave up (sunk costs fallacy and all that). It is what it is. I like Griffin very much as a QB prospect and hope he will do well here. And Jumbo, might I add that I like your use of one of my favorite word in circuitous. :)

[ADF]

I am talking value as far as trading goes, on the old reliable trade chart. A 2013 first is equivalent to a 2012 second. From a franchise point of view I understand your concern long term, but this is the best shot we've had in 30 plus years at getting a legit top shelf QB. If RG3 turns into what he looks like he should be, then this franchise should be no less than 8-8 for the next decade, teams with great QBs rarely are. The closest we've come to this good a prospect was Heath Shuler in 1994, but he wasn't near the prospect that RG3 is. I say it was a move that had to be made.

That has been my thought process as well. Losing one pick a year doesn't cripple our ability to draft. After this April, the Redskins will have used a first round pick on a QB, two pass rushers, and a LT in the past four draft. Those are the hardest positions to fill and they come at a premium. I have more confidence in Shanahan and Allen's ability to find players from the other positions outside of the first round.

[Califan007]

Excellent interview by Schefter about RG3 and the trade:

http://www.stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s=65&c=427&f=438301

Good interview :yes:...

---------- Post added March-10th-2012 at 11:48 AM ----------


That has been my thought process as well. Losing one pick a year doesn't cripple our ability to draft. After this April, the Redskins will have used a first round pick on a QB, two pass rushers, and a LT in the past four draft. Those are the hardest positions to fill and they come at a premium. I have more confidence in Shanahan and Allen's ability to find players from the other positions outside of the first round.

Especially since they improved the operations of the scouting department.

If having a 1st round draft pick every year was the key to building a consistent contender, then all 32 teams would be consistent contenders year in and year out. Good scouting and franchise consistency in terms of the front office, coaches and playing schemes means far more than having 1st round draft picks.

[Jumbo]

At this point I'm pretty much over how much we gave up (sunk costs fallacy and all that). It is what it is. I like Griffin very much as a QB prospect and hope he will do well here. And Jumbo, might I add that I like your use of one of my favorite word in circuitous. :)

Credit respectgibbs, I was referencing his use of it, though he may have been attempting to impugn my stellar communicative skills. The forum is in little danger of suffering from too much proper grammar or extended vocabulary. :pfft:

[SkinsTight]

Bringing in RG3 and drafting Baylor WR Kendall Wright would be an awesome combo for years to come....

[IrepDC]

No 1st round pick for two years?! Now we'll have to settle for skill players like Maurice Jones-Drew(2nd round), Ray Rice(2nd round), Michael Turner(5th round), Lesean Mccoy(2nd round), or Arian Foster(Undrafted FA). Just the top 5 rushers from last year. And what receivers could we find with no 1st round picks for two years?!! Guys like Steve Smith(3rd round), Desean Jackson(2nd round), Vincent Jackson(2nd round), Brandon Marshall(3rd round), Greg Jennings(2nd round), Jordy Nelson(2nd round), Mike Wallace(3rd round), or Marques Colston(7th round) could never be good targets for RGIII, right? And do I really need to list how many NFL o-line's were built with mid round picks?

I keep trying to tell people we'll be fine. We just have to continue drafting well like we did with Jenkins, Hankerson, Helu, etc. last year.

[texasthunder]

This ought to make some fans feel better:

Rams team sources tell the St. Louis Post-Dispatch the Browns were willing to trade both their 2012 first-round picks to acquire St. Louis' No. 2 pick.
If true, it raises questions about why the Rams were so quick to accept the Redskins' offer, as the Browns were also reportedly willing to send three first-rounders and a second-round pick. If Cleveland was open to dealing both its 2012 first-rounders and its 2013 first-round pick, its package would have been markedly better than Washington's. It's possible Jeff Fisher and Mike Shanahan's supposedly cozy relationship played a part in Washington winning the RGIII sweepstakes.

http://rotoworld.com/sports/nfl/football

[GoSkins0721]

No 1st round pick for two years?! Now we'll have to settle for skill players like Maurice Jones-Drew(2nd round), Ray Rice(2nd round), Michael Turner(5th round), Lesean Mccoy(2nd round), or Arian Foster(Undrafted FA). Just the top 5 rushers from last year. And what receivers could we find with no 1st round picks for two years?!! Guys like Steve Smith(3rd round), Desean Jackson(2nd round), Vincent Jackson(2nd round), Brandon Marshall(3rd round), Greg Jennings(2nd round), Jordy Nelson(2nd round), Mike Wallace(3rd round), or Marques Colston(7th round) could never be good targets for RGIII, right? And do I really need to list how many NFL o-line's were built with mid round picks?

I keep trying to tell people we'll be fine. We just have to continue drafting well like we did with Jenkins, Hankerson, Helu, etc. last year.

Or we could grab Devon Thomas (2nd Round), Comb Kelley (2nd Round)...I kid, I kid.

The current GM (Reese) of the NYGiants said it best: GMs earn their pay in the second half of the draft.

Yeah, we lose 3 potential starters. That does hurt a bit. BUT, we really won't know how bad for 3-4 years. I've seen this movie before, I'm just hoping the ending is different this time.

[skinny21]

How can you honestly be upset when we needed this?

Look at the Julio Jones trade lol

Two 1st round picks, 2nd round pick, Two Fourth round picks.

Yea, I'm not that upset...

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/feed/2011-01/2011-nfl-draft/story/falcons-trade-up-for-julio-jones-in-draft-shocker-with-browns

The Falcons really coveted a receiver in the first round because they were eager to move up from the 27th spot. It was a blockbuster deal. In exchange for getting the sixth pick, Atlanta gave the Browns five -- five! -- draft picks: their 1st- (27th overall), second- (59th) and fourth-round (124th) picks this year and their first- and fourth-round picks in 2012.


Falcons gave up a 1st, 2nd, and two 4ths... To move up 21 spots. We gave up more to move up just 4 spots. Not saying it wasn't worth it, just correcting your facts.

[PerryMason]

This ought to make some fans feel better:

Rams team sources tell the St. Louis Post-Dispatch the Browns were willing to trade both their 2012 first-round picks to acquire St. Louis' No. 2 pick.
If true, it raises questions about why the Rams were so quick to accept the Redskins' offer, as the Browns were also reportedly willing to send three first-rounders and a second-round pick. If Cleveland was open to dealing both its 2012 first-rounders and its 2013 first-round pick, its package would have been markedly better than Washington's. It's possible Jeff Fisher and Mike Shanahan's supposedly cozy relationship played a part in Washington winning the RGIII sweepstakes.

http://rotoworld.com/sports/nfl/football

I think the debate has been settled on whether the relationship mattered or not. Looks like it wasn't SOLELY just a bidding war like some assumed. Good times for us :)

[Tay]

Taken from HogsHaven. This has the bet the perfect response to the trade:

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/999064/Tavon_Call.mp3

[sempre_victrix]

Franchise QB my ass. Heck, let's just let him bypass his career and enshrine him in Canton right now. Three 1sts and a 2nd for one guy when we have gaping holes at other positions. And I though Shanahan knew what he was doing. I guess Snyder couldn't keep his hands out of the mix for more than 2 seasons.

[Jeffro]

Maybe I'm crazy, but personally.. I wouldnt be surprised if these type of deals became more common. Why? Because of the rookie cap. Before last year, if you made a trade like this you were staring down the barrel of a contract like Bradford or Staffords. Which limited the teams ability to do much except build in the draft. Now, you can make this trade and basically have a franchise level QB for 4-5 years VERY CHEAP. It frees up money for free agents and allows you to build a team through free agency while waiting out draft picks. Then by the time that QB comes up for his 2nd contract you're back to having your draft picks when you're paying the big bucks.

Just my 2c.

I absolutely love the deal, and I am absolutely excited about this team, Shanahan and Bruce Allen being in charge.

[ExoDus84]

Having slept on it, I feel a little better. If you really believe RGIII can be that franchise QB we desperately need, two 1st's and a second is a small price to pay. It is a huge price, but RGIII is a great prospect. If he pans out as our franchise QB, though, he's worth a lot more than what we gave up.

[TK]

Franchise QB my ass. Heck, let's just let him bypass his career and enshrine him in Canton right now. Three 1sts and a 2nd for one guy when we have gaping holes at other positions. And I though Shanahan knew what he was doing. I guess Snyder couldn't keep his hands out of the mix for more than 2 seasons.
Some folks are never happy. 'Tis a shame.

[-JB-]

The last time the Skins won a Super Bowl the NFL jersey was made by Starter. The Reebok era was terrible to us. Thank god for Nike :drooley:

[Reic]

I still don't get everyone saying we gave up 3 1st round picks.. please show me where we lost a 1st round pick this year??

[cahones01]

I still don't get everyone saying we gave up 3 1st round picks.. please show me where we lost a 1st round pick this year??

Thank god someone else said this.

[terpfan]

This ought to make some fans feel better:

Rams team sources tell the St. Louis Post-Dispatch the Browns were willing to trade both their 2012 first-round picks to acquire St. Louis' No. 2 pick.
If true, it raises questions about why the Rams were so quick to accept the Redskins' offer, as the Browns were also reportedly willing to send three first-rounders and a second-round pick. If Cleveland was open to dealing both its 2012 first-rounders and its 2013 first-round pick, its package would have been markedly better than Washington's. It's possible Jeff Fisher and Mike Shanahan's supposedly cozy relationship played a part in Washington winning the RGIII sweepstakes.


http://rotoworld.com/sports/nfl/football
It does. Thanks. I dont care what we had to give. I just dont like feeling like we overpaid.

[spjunkies]

I still don't get everyone saying we gave up 3 1st round picks.. please show me where we lost a 1st round pick this year??

People don't want to understand this point for some odd reason.

IT WAS A SWAP OF 1st's THIS YEAR!!!!!

urrrrrghhhh

[sempre_victrix]

Some folks are never happy. 'Tis a shame.

I was happy last year. Great draft and it showed on the field. If Jenkins makes it back 100%, it was perfect. Rome wasn't built in a day, and undoing Vinny's horrid drafts and FA work will take a while.

Funny how the advocates of this deal think we are immediately SB bound for a decade. This guy could get hit by a car, or get his leg snapped by a DE first snap of the ball.

I'm happy for all of you who think this is a great deal, but if RG3 is the cat's meow, why aren't the Colts taking him instead of Luck?

[Prototype]

Sorry Cleveland, RGIII just doesn't belong in brown and orange.

[sempre_victrix]

I still don't get everyone saying we gave up 3 1st round picks.. please show me where we lost a 1st round pick this year??

How about three 1sts and a 2nd were spent for this player?

Happy?

[TotalRecall]

^ I read that the Browns were unwilling to part with their 2nd 1st rounder for this year. They may have offered 3 first rounders over 3 drafts, and that's it.

[elkabong82]

Basically in order to get RG3 we use a 1st rounder and give up Ryan Kerrigan, Brian Orakpo, and Jarvis Jenkins. or, on the downside, we give up Carlos Rogers, Laron Landry, and Rocky McIntosh. For a potential franchise QB with as much potential and intelligenece as RG3, those players are worth it in either scenario IMO.

[SkinsGuy]

I was happy last year. Great draft and it showed on the field. If Jenkins makes it back 100%, it was perfect. Rome wasn't built in a day, and undoing Vinny's horrid drafts and FA work will take a while.

Funny how the advocates of this deal think we are immediately SB bound for a decade. This guy could get hit by a car, or get his leg snapped by a DE first snap of the ball.

I'm happy for all of you who think this is a great deal, but if RG3 is the cat's meow, why aren't the Colts taking him instead of Luck?

Because RG3 is a great QB, but Luck is considered "more polished and ready" than RG3.

What you have here is two great QBs coming out this year. The Redskins now have a chance for one of them.

[kwitt]

I was happy last year. Great draft and it showed on the field. If Jenkins makes it back 100%, it was perfect. Rome wasn't built in a day, and undoing Vinny's horrid drafts and FA work will take a while.

Funny how the advocates of this deal think we are immediately SB bound for a decade. This guy could get hit by a car, or get his leg snapped by a DE first snap of the ball.

I'm happy for all of you who think this is a great deal, but if RG3 is the cat's meow, why aren't the Colts taking him instead of Luck?

I'm hearing a lot how we gave up the farm for the "2nd best QB" in the draft. Want to know someone else who was the 2nd best QB in his class? Dan Marino in 1983.

[Reic]

How about three 1sts and a 2nd were spent for this player?

Happy?

Eh, we still spend 2 first round picks and a 2nd round pick to get him this year, we were going to "spend" the 1st this year anyway

[RonArtest15]

Basically in order to get RG3 we use a 1st rounder and give up Ryan Kerrigan, Brian Orakpo, and Jarvis Jenkins. or, on the downside, we give up Carlos Rogers, Laron Landry, and Rocky McIntosh. For a potential franchise QB with as much potential and intelligenece as RG3, those players are worth it in either scenario IMO.

You state that like Jarvis Jenkins has done anything. I think all of us want him to pan out/contribute, but before putting him in the same sentence as Kerrigan and Rak, let him get on the field first.

[Tay]

Check out this video. At about 2:45 Bill Polian discussed Luck vs RG3, and indirectly said RG3 should the #1 QB on our draft board.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW_mQ3qWsl4

[Reic]

I'm hearing a lot how we gave up the farm for the "2nd best QB" in the draft. Want to know someone else who was the 2nd best QB in his class? Dan Marino in 1983.

If second best gets us SuperBowls then why the hell does it matter? lol We will see when their tune changes if RG3 turns out to be who we all hope he can be for this team!

[sempre_victrix]

Eh, we still spend 2 first round picks and a 2nd round pick to get him this year, we were going to "spend" the 1st this year anyway

If we used a 1st to get a player, we spent it on him. Kind of like having a dollar and buying a soda with it, you spent your dollar on the soda.
We are spending an additional two firsts and a 2nd.

[DieselPwr44]

Some folks are never happy. 'Tis a shame.

Amen!!

Shows you no matter what they do..the Skins can't win.......



Until this Sept. :evil:

[egtuna]

As a cowboys fan, all I can say is Cograts. And !@#$%^$%$!.

RGIII is worth what the skins gave up (and then some). In 5 years when RGIII is making his 3rd straight pro-bowl, Jerry Jones will be signing Blaine Gabbert in the hopes of reviving that loser's stalled career. As Matt Damon said to Leo DiCaprio in the elevator in The Departed, "just kill me."

[Reic]

If we used a 1st to get a player, we spent it on him. Kind of like having a dollar and buying a soda with it, you spent your dollar on the soda.
We are spending an additional two firsts and a 2nd.

Ok, I can go along with that, but if that soda can ends up becoming a rare collectible and you sell it for a million dollars.. are you gonna miss that dollar?

[TotalRecall]

I'm hearing a lot how we gave up the farm for the "2nd best QB" in the draft. Want to know someone else who was the 2nd best QB in his class? Dan Marino in 1983.

Everybody is just making their own player evaluation. Would you trade 3 first rounders and a 2nd rounder for DeMarcus Russell? In hindsight, you would definitely say "NO WAY".

[ZRagone]

Anyone know if ASF ever ran RGIII's numbers through his little "Franchise Quarterback" analysis?

-edit-

NM, just noticed he got NNT'ed and left. Too bad, I'd be interested to know how RGIII factored in

[TK]

You state that like Jarvis Jenkins has done anything. I think all of us want him to pan out/contribute, but before putting him in the same sentence as Kerrigan and Rak, let him get on the field first.

Before injury, the coaching staff had him penciled in as a perineal Pro Bowl & a starter, pushing Carriker to second string.

[skinsfan_1215]

Before injury, the coaching staff had him penciled in as a perineal Pro Bowl & a starter, pushing Carriker to second string.

Ooo man... As if this excitement over rg3 isn't enough, you've got to go throwing these statements out there. My head might explode.

[sempre_victrix]

Ok, I can go along with that, but if that soda can ends up becoming a rare collectible and you sell it for a million dollars.. are you gonna miss that dollar?

Actually, it is $3.75, but if the can does turn out to be part of a highly sought collection (team), then it was worth it.

To paraphrase another analogy, is it smart to mortgage your home and bet it all on a horse race? If you win, you look like a genius. But if you lose.....

I'm glad that you're happy and I hope something finally works out for the 'Skins. Lord knows we're due.

[mbws]

L
According to John Clayton, this is the FIRST TIME since 1980 (when they started keeping track) that ANY team has "traded three first round picks" to move into the top 5.

People can argue about semantics all they want, but people need to realize that this really is a HUGE, unprecedented deal.

Not saying that's good or bad, but people need to stop downlplaying how big this is - win or lose.

The Redskins gave up more for what they got than anybody else ever has. Ever.


And in 1980 Gasoline had just gone up. To... Wait for it... A DOLLAR! It was an outrageous price to pay for something I had been able to obtain for 58 Cents a mere 2 years earlier. This week I spent 60.00 to fill up a Camry. The cost of this trade was due to the fact that a lower rookie salary limit made the number 2 spot more valuable than in previous years and that there were other teams interested in moving up to get the QB they all so desperately need as much as The Redskins. It was a little more than The Giants gave up to trade for Eli, but that is the law of supply and demand.

I am in favor of this trade, and sorry but 4 - 1 = 3.

[IONTOP]

I'm hearing a lot how we gave up the farm for the "2nd best QB" in the draft. Want to know someone else who was the 2nd best QB in his class? Dan Marino in 1983.

Technically he was the 6th "best".. Todd Blackledge was the 2nd best

[elkabong82]

I was happy last year. Great draft and it showed on the field. If Jenkins makes it back 100%, it was perfect. Rome wasn't built in a day, and undoing Vinny's horrid drafts and FA work will take a while.

Funny how the advocates of this deal think we are immediately SB bound for a decade. This guy could get hit by a car, or get his leg snapped by a DE first snap of the ball.

I'm happy for all of you who think this is a great deal, but if RG3 is the cat's meow, why aren't the Colts taking him instead of Luck?

Because Luck is also a great prospect. Plus, the Colts FO has been urging Irsay to take a second look at RG3 before completely committing to Luck. You act as if the 2nd QB taken in a draft has never outperformed the 1st QB. Every QB has the risk you're talking about. At some point you've got to roll the dice or you're already out of the game without even trying.

[mjames]

Important side note, although he is going to be a rook, you have to think some of the big time free agents have raised an eyebrow now and may want to come here other than just a big pay day from Danny.

[Duckus]

I was happy last year. Great draft and it showed on the field. If Jenkins makes it back 100%, it was perfect. Rome wasn't built in a day, and undoing Vinny's horrid drafts and FA work will take a while.

Funny how the advocates of this deal think we are immediately SB bound for a decade. This guy could get hit by a car, or get his leg snapped by a DE first snap of the ball.

I'm happy for all of you who think this is a great deal, but if RG3 is the cat's meow, why aren't the Colts taking him instead of Luck?

Here is your flaw.

So you thought that Mike Shanahan, Bruce Allen, and our scouting department did a great job last year judging talent, evaluating values, signing contracts, and making smart moves that the Redskins have lacked for years here?

I couldn't agree more. We agree. Last year was such a change that it gives you real confidence that this group GETS IT and has a plan.

Guess who made this move? Mike Shanahan, Bruce Allen, and our scouting department. The same people made these really smart moves last year made this move. They didn't just wake up one day and say "**** it - lets go crazy and blow up everything we are building."

Instead they made a move that fits into their long term plan. They see RGII (or Luck) as a potential long term piece that can stabilize a position that has been a disaster for over a decade so they CAN focus on other areas of the field.

If you liked the moves last year and think they were successful - these are by the very same people. They have earned a bit of trust from me.

[Reic]

Actually, it is $3.75, but if the can does turn out to be part of a highly sought collection (team), then it was worth it.

To paraphrase another analogy, is it smart to mortgage your home and bet it all on a horse race? If you win, you look like a genius. But if you lose.....

I'm glad that you're happy and I hope something finally works out for the 'Skins. Lord knows we're due.

Oh i'm one of those guys to where whatever happens happens. I'm going to support the team no matter what and I'm an optimist.

We are definitely due, and if it works out freaking sweet, if not then i'll sit though another decade or two of complete suckage until someone gets the team back on track :)

[kwitt]

Technically he was the 6th "best".. Todd Blackledge was the 2nd best

Marino dropped because of drug rumors. I was referring to him as the second best QB based on what we know now. I know he never won a Super Bowl but my point is if we end up with someone of his ability and Luck ends up being even better than so be it.

[elkabong82]

You state that like Jarvis Jenkins has done anything. I think all of us want him to pan out/contribute, but before putting him in the same sentence as Kerrigan and Rak, let him get on the field first.

Nope. Just stated it as a recent player we spent a 2nd round pick on.

[IONTOP]

Marino dropped because of drug rumors. I was referring to him as the second best QB based on what we know now. I know he never won a Super Bowl but my point is if we end up with someone of his ability and Luck ends up being even better than so be it.

I see what you're saying... But right now the only thing we can say is that the 2nd best QB is the one that's taken the 2nd overall... Down the road we can figure out who is the best...

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

Thank god someone else said this.

Trust me, I said it, others said it before me. We keep saying it, all over the internet. Hasn't made a dent yet.

---------- Post added March-10th-2012 at 03:53 PM ----------



Funny how the advocates of this deal think we are immediately SB bound for a decade. This guy could get hit by a car, or get his leg snapped by a DE first snap of the ball.


This is a dumb point. It has nothing to do with making such trades. If a company builds a factory and an earthquake destroys it or aliens blow it up, this means it was a bad decision? WHen you buy insurance, do you say, "well I might NOT get killed tomorrow, so **** my family!" ? When you purchase a car, do you say, hmmm, I might get into an accident on the road. I think I'll just walk. But wait, I might get hit by a car or ravaged by a rabid opossum. I think I'll stay indoors.

Citing risk as part of our existence isn't the mark of intelligence, it's the sign of a mediocre mind who cannot incorporate such concepts as "risks taken advance the race" "entpreneurialism" "daring" or "courage."

It seems like you have a problem with the draft itself if uncertainty is your issue. So why ***** if we traded a few uncertainties for the chance to select one uncertainty? How many #1 picks did we get right and when we actually MADE the playoffs since 92, was it not DUE to having good QB play that year (or part of year with COllins in 2007?)

[kwitt]

I was happy last year. Great draft and it showed on the field. If Jenkins makes it back 100%, it was perfect. Rome wasn't built in a day, and undoing Vinny's horrid drafts and FA work will take a while.

Funny how the advocates of this deal think we are immediately SB bound for a decade. This guy could get hit by a car, or get his leg snapped by a DE first snap of the ball.

I'm happy for all of you who think this is a great deal, but if RG3 is the cat's meow, why aren't the Colts taking him instead of Luck?

And if it was such a no brainer to take the boatload of picks over the QB prospect then why is Indy not even CONSIDERING trading the pick?? You could offer them the next 5 first rounders and they would turn it down.

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

Eh, we still spend 2 first round picks and a 2nd round pick to get him this year, we were going to "spend" the 1st this year anyway

Yes, I don't think people are understanding this. The draft is part of the very structure of the NFL. It's not like you SPEND anything in order to RECEIVE a pick. That would be the only time that it is appropriate to speak like these critics are speaking.

Imagine every day God said you would have good health and life and consciousness. But then, one day he gives you a chance to take six months of being in terrible pain for a good (but not certain) chance at finding the best woman in the world and starting a family that will last forever (and I know you know what I'm describing, dude ;)? What are you spending? Well, you're only spending the six months of "good health" on this chance. Because every other day was a GIVEN. Draft picks are a GIVEN. They can be traded away and they obviously are of different values based on your performance the previous season but it's part and parcel of the structure of the NFL. You don't "spend" a pick you already were going to spend, except maybe in a retrospective analysis of how effective your drafting is, or something like that. Basically, the critics viewpoint only holds for relational analyses, NOT for any kind of view of this trade.

Or another analogy, if every day you were guaranteed to have sex with a woman, but one day you had a bargain you could make to forego sex a few days to increase your odds of bedding Christina Hendricks or Jessica Alba (or whoever you like) what did you spend? Well, you were already guaranteed the days, this is paying to get that extra. YOu don't count something you already have as the cost. You never had to "buy" it in the first place, so the people who say that do not understand what they are saying.

[HAIL Freezes Ova]

Dallas fan here. Congrats on the trade. The price seems a tad high, but I don't see a problem with it. Let's face it, this is a franchise QB-driven league. You can fill your roster up w/ all the talent in the world, but minus a franchise QB you're still not likely to get anywhere. I mean, look at the Jets. We hear how talented that team is. They're going nowhere w/ Sanchez. For years I've heard how great the Front Office of the Ravens is, yet they don't seem to be making any progress w/ Flacco.

On the flip side, the Patriots have never been able to draft a legit No. 1 WR for Brady (his best WRs -- Welker and Moss -- were cheap FAs). They've never had a true franchise RB. And the defense has been one of the worst in the league last year. Did it matter, no? Because a franchise QB like Brady makes them a SB contender each year.

Other examples include: the Saints had high draft picks for years, but it didn't get them close to a SB till they found a franchise QB, and suddenly it all fell into place. The winningest teams of the 2000s (I'm guessing the Pats, Colts and Eagles) all had one thing in common: a franchise QB.

Don't get me wrong: draft picks are great, but I think the foundation for any successful team begins with the QB, esp in this pass-happy (or pass-friendly, rule-wise) era. If you don't have one and insist on using your draft picks to pick BPA every year, then plan to be content "challenging" for a playoff spot like the Jets or Ravens.

I'm looking forward to seeing RGIII 2x a year, and with any luck 3x a year. Cheers.


Seriously.... who is your team. You sir, are much too classy and realistic to be a cowboys fan... I want to tell you to screw off, but I can't bring myself to do it :(

*Hand you a plate of muffins*

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

To paraphrase another analogy, is it smart to mortgage your home and bet it all on a horse race? If you win, you look like a genius. But if you lose.....

I'm glad that you're happy and I hope something finally works out for the 'Skins. Lord knows we're due.

I don't see how you can trust the FO last year but not this time, when everyone is saying Griffin is special and we just had Cam Newton with less experience as a passer set NFL records. Also, it's tough to analogize the draft but I think I just did so in my previous post.

[2cents]

The Rams already have their QB and the Colts don't . It's that simple. They want to start with a QB and that's what they are going to do.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

I've noticed that a good 90% of the posters against this trade, live outside of the DC area. It just caught my eye after the first three and I started paying attention to it. Sure enough, 90% of them. From Alaska to Oregon to Vegas to Oklahoma to France. And so on. I wonder if being outside the area, they don't have a feel for how desperate the QB situation is here. How much we're yearning for one.

[Zazzaro703]

This is insanity. I wasn't sold on RGIII back in September, but now i would have thrown in MORE picks if that's what it took. This guy is a rare talent. The only thing that could stop him is garbage coaching or injury. You can't compare him to Jason Campbell, or Suck Shuler or Ryan Leaf..... This guy has the discipline, intelligence and outright physical gifts that NONE of those guys had. If RGIII busts... Ill pissed off at the universe, not the Redskins front office and Dan Snyder. And if RGIII does bust, at least it will be more exciting than watching Orton and Tannenhil drive us even further into mediocrity.

*Edit* I just wanted to mention this too.... Remember that Redskins Defense we saw at the beginning of the year? Hungry, making plays, everyone bought into the system and believing.... That was with REX GROSSMAN at the helm. I cannot wait to see that defense this year believing in the truth.

[SkinFaninOKC]

I am going to own this, I am going to throw it in peoples faces, I am going to wag my finger at them and say "TOLD YOU SO MOTHER****ERS!!" 5 minutes after the news broke my coworkers were ragging on me, the Skins, saying we are going to sign Manning, the Redskins are going to **** this up blah blah blah. Mark my words, Manning vs. Brady will take a back seat to Griffin vs. Newton. Redskins vs. Panthers will become appointment TV.

This trade is worth it. Better he flop with us than not get him and watch him succeed somewhere else. That may sound dumb but at least we made a move.

[ArmchairRedskin]

Griffin vs Vick will become big time TV. Griff = prime time games. Hopefully he can turn our record around.

[RWJ]

You all may want to check out the Redskins One Thread. Jeez.

[SkinFaninOKC]

I've noticed that a good 90% of the posters against this trade, live outside of the DC area. It just caught my eye after the first three and I started paying attention to it. Sure enough, 90% of them. From Alaska to Oregon to Vegas to Oklahoma to France. And so on. I wonder if being outside the area, they don't have a feel for how desperate the QB situation is here. How much we're yearning for one.

I've been a fan for nearly 30 years, bring on RG III, **** the bull **** everyone else give us.

---------- Post added March-10th-2012 at 05:03 PM ----------


Griffin vs Vick will become big time TV. Griff = prime time games. Hopefully he can turn our record around.

We'll get one Sunday night game next year and probably a Monday nighter, and if RG III is lighting up the league or we are winning because of him we'll get flexed, man I've given this too much thought.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

I've been a fan for nearly 30 years, bring on RG III, **** the bull **** everyone else give us

I'm certainly not saying that every fan outside the area is anti-this trade. Just that of those that are, a good 90% of them don't live in the area. And I'm not calling them lesser fans either.

[Pick6]

Don't know if this has been posted yet, but it is from the Redskins Facebook Page. Makes all the sense in the world and why I believed the deal would be done early.


The following is a statement by Redskins general manager Bruce Allen and St. Louis Rams general manager Les Snead issued on Saturday:

“In order to execute each of our club’s plans for free agency and the upcoming draft, we have agreed to a trade between our two teams for the second pick in the 2012 draft. We will submit this trade to the NFL for approval."

[SkinFaninOKC]

I'm certainly not saying that every fan outside the area is anti-this trade. Just that of those that are, a good 90% of them don't live in the area. And I'm not calling them lesser fans either.

I know, I was just show my enthusiam for the trade, however a friend of mine who is a fan likes RG III but thinks we paid too much. I almost have him convinced that trade was a good thing.

[HapHaszard]

Busy day today, tons of articles on the trade, even some scared articles from Blogging the Boys. Check out Bubbas Redskins Breaking News for all the latest news.

[Alaskins]

I guess this put's Mike WIlbon's claims of Coach Shanny being a closet racist (ala the McNabb benching) to bed, huh?

[ConnSKINS26]

You all may want to check out the Redskins One Thread. Jeez.

We get it, we might still get Peyton. Just say it haha.

I still don't think Mike sells him on it. He'll be somewhere else.

[RWJ]

We get it, we might still get Peyton. Just say it haha.

I still don't think Mike sells him on it. He'll be somewhere else.



Never know. I hope he does. Yes, it will be hard but MS just cleared one heck of a hurdle.:)

[Darth Tater]

I've been a fan for nearly 30 years, bring on RG III, **** the bull **** everyone else give us.

---------- Post added March-10th-2012 at 05:03 PM ----------



We'll get one Sunday night game next year and probably a Monday nighter, and if RG III is lighting up the league or we are winning because of him we'll get flexed, man I've given this too much thought.

Living outside the DC area and not having Sunday Ticket, I love any nationally televised games as it means I get to watch the game in the comfort of my own home.

[BlueWreckingCrew]

As a Giants fan I'm absolutely thrilled over this move. It guarantees that you guys will be able to build absolutely nothing around him for the next 3 years. It also means that you guys will have to over spend in free agency to fill holes. It would be even sweeter if RG3 turns out to be a bust. Then this move will have set you guys back for at least another decade. :)

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

I guess this put's Mike WIlbon's claims of Coach Shanny being a closet racist (ala the McNabb benching) to bed, huh?

No, it's never over for some people.

[Skins4Life6388]

As a Giants fan I'm absolutely thrilled over this move. It guarantees that you guys will be able to build absolutely nothing around him for the next 3 years. It also means that you guys will have to over spend in free agency to fill holes. It would be even sweeter if RG3 turns out to be a bust. Then this move will have set you guys back for at least another decade. :)

Right. 20 draft picks over the next three years and tons of cap room is nothing...

[RVAbrendan]

you guys will be able to build absolutely nothing around him for the next 3 years.

troll. explain this?

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

As a Giants fan I'm absolutely thrilled over this move. It guarantees that you guys will be able to build absolutely nothing around him for the next 3 years. It also means that you guys will have to over spend in free agency to fill holes. It would be even sweeter if RG3 turns out to be a bust. Then this move will have set you guys back for at least another decade. :)

So, wait, you can only build teams with first round picks? Someone better tell the Giants.

[DavidGQ]

I honestly "hope" we don't have to give up too much for RG3. But understand that we need to do it to beat the Browns. Many teams reached last year for a QB with lesser talents. They will do so this year and going forward since the League is now a QB driven league. For us to land a "franchise" QB either this year or in the future, we will need to be either 1) suck really bad or 2) trade up by giving up more picks. How have we fared the past 20 years on drafting? Did those picks bring us to the promise land?

If we have a chance for a "Special" QB, should we take that chance? In life, there is always risks and rewards. Steve Job, Bill Gates, and many more entrepreneurs took that leap of faith. They could easily work for a company 9 - 5 and collect their paychecks. But they didn't. I applaud Mike and Bruce for taking that leap of faith for us. Without taking that risk, we will Never know what the reward will be down the road. Our Defense is a playoff caliber. Our Offense missing link is the QB. How many games we could have won last 2 years if we have a better QB? Look at the list of the QBs played for us since Manning was drafted. Should we sign Flynn? There's a reason why he's a back up at Green Bay and drafted in the 7th round. He's no Brady. I don't want to see our team go out and sign or trade for a QB from other team's left over. We did that for the past 20 years and it didn't work. It's about time we draft OUR own QB of the future.

Lastly, if I give $3.50 to my friend and he gives me back $1, am I still out of $3.50?

I understand the concerns from some fans in here. I get that. But for the first time in my life as a Redskins fan, I think it's worth it.

[War Paint]

As a Giants fan I'm absolutely thrilled over this move. It guarantees that you guys will be able to build absolutely nothing around him for the next 3 years. It also means that you guys will have to over spend in free agency to fill holes. It would be even sweeter if RG3 turns out to be a bust. Then this move will have set you guys back for at least another decade. :)

lol, yeah, I'm sure you're truly happy that the Redskins might have a franchise QB for the first time in 20 years. We are 40 million+ under the cap and can afford to spend in FA this year. We wrecked you twice last year with Train Rex. We will supply RG3 with weapons. Don't worry about that. Troll on.

[DavidGQ]

As a Giants fan I'm absolutely thrilled over this move. It guarantees that you guys will be able to build absolutely nothing around him for the next 3 years. It also means that you guys will have to over spend in free agency to fill holes. It would be even sweeter if RG3 turns out to be a bust. Then this move will have set you guys back for at least another decade. :)

A lot of people felt the same way when you traded for Eli. Were you one of those people?

[2cents]

As a Giants fan I'm absolutely thrilled over this move. It guarantees that you guys will be able to build absolutely nothing around him for the next 3 years. It also means that you guys will have to over spend in free agency to fill holes. It would be even sweeter if RG3 turns out to be a bust. Then this move will have set you guys back for at least another decade. :)

I would say nice try, but this post is so bad it doesn't even seem like trying. Better luck next time.

[railcon56]

As a Giants fan I'm absolutely thrilled over this move. It guarantees that you guys will be able to build absolutely nothing around him for the next 3 years. It also means that you guys will have to over spend in free agency to fill holes. It would be even sweeter if RG3 turns out to be a bust. Then this move will have set you guys back for at least another decade. :)
HaHaHa The Rivals are getting nervous:giantsuck::fly:

[BlueWreckingCrew]

So, wait, you can only build teams with first round picks? Someone better tell the Giants.

Right, but your FO is not the Giants FO.

[IrepDC]

As a Giants fan I'm absolutely thrilled over this move. It guarantees that you guys will be able to build absolutely nothing around him for the next 3 years. It also means that you guys will have to over spend in free agency to fill holes. It would be even sweeter if RG3 turns out to be a bust. Then this move will have set you guys back for at least another decade. :)

Except all the top rushers were drafted outside of the first round last year as well as most of the top WRs.. and the best OLs in the NFL consist of many mid round picks. We have all of those picks still and have shown the ability to draft well in those rounds. We'll be fine. I hope that great DL up in Ny is ready to be running.sprints all offseason getting ready to chase our new QB.

[CapsSkins]

Right, but your FO is not the Giants FO.

Obvious troll...can we give this guy a timeout?

[BlueWreckingCrew]

HaHaHa The Rivals are getting nervous:giantsuck::fly:

I wasn't being sarcastic or a troll.....I'm truly happy about this move...lol. If there's one thing I've learned from the past 20 years it's that the Redskins are a sure bet to make the wrong choice.

[SkinFaninOKC]

Right, but your FO is not the Giants FO.

Your team may have won the Super Bowl but it's still a ****ing train wreck. We swept you guys, WITH REX GROSSMAN, it took losing to us to wake your team up. From our team to yours, YOUR WELCOME!!

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

Right, but your FO is not the Giants FO.

Actually, how you figure since we keep drafting well and have even re-tooled on defense AND have tons of money to fill must-have spots?

[BlueWreckingCrew]

Your team may have won the Super Bowl but it's still a ****ing train wreck. We swept you guys, WITH REX GROSSMAN, it took losing to us to wake your team up. From our team to yours, YOUR WELCOME!!

Grats on your personal Super Bowl?

[Hoot]

Seriously.... who is your team. You sir, are much too classy and realistic to be a cowboys fan... I want to tell you to screw off, but I can't bring myself to do it :(

*Hand you a plate of muffins*

LOL. Seriously, I'm a Dallas fan, but a realistic one that doesn't like to get into petty arguments. I live in Dallas, too, BTW. And I do like muffins.

But I've always believed what I said. QB is easily the most important position on a football team, and it's true more than ever. No other position (heck, no other 3 positions is even close). If someone offered you a franchise LT, franchise DE, and franchise RB in exchange for a franchise QB, I'd take the QB in a heartbeat. And if you would agree w/ me on that, then giving up 3 No. 1 picks for a chance to get a potential franchise QB makes all the sense in the world.

[Pick6]

I honestly "hope" we don't have to give up too much for RG3. But understand that we need to do it to beat the Browns. Many teams reached last year for a QB with lesser talents. They will do so this year and going forward since the League is now a QB driven league. For us to land a "franchise" QB either this year or in the future, we will need to be either 1) suck really bad or 2) trade up by giving up more picks. How have we fared the past 20 years on drafting? Did those picks bring us to the promise land?


:secret: The deal has already been done. The Skins traded for the #2 pick.

[DCchillin89]

Griffin vs Vick will become big time TV. Griff = prime time games. Hopefully he can turn our record around.

Griff vs. Luck
Griff vs. Vick
Griff vs. Newton
Griff vs. Bradford
Griff vs. Manning (Eli)
Griff vs. Romo...

all of those matchups are primetime worthy in my opinion. Even bradford, because those two QB's will be judged side by side for their careers because of the trade.