Luck or RGIII?

[Tuff]

At this rate, it would appear that The Colts take Andrew Luck, and the Skins will take RGIII.

So....what if the Colts took RGIII instead? Would Andrew Luck be just as exciting or less so? I understand that the Colts have strongly suggested they are taking Luck, but things can always change. There was talk right til the draft that the Colts almost took Ryan Leaf over Manning back in 98, but that worked out.

Just curious if Skins fans are finding themselves preferring RGIII now over Luck, or if they would swap if they had the choice.

For all we know, one of the other QB's in the draft could have a better career than both of them?

[bushwack]

Is this a joke? Of course either QB will be exciting. I'll gladly take RGIII or Luck as a "consolation" prize.

[Chris21]

We are in a great position no doubt. I have felt all along we were getting Luck. Maybe just wishful thinking.

[terpfan]

I honestly don't care. I'm kind of married to the idea of RG3 now. But there's a reason Luck has always been considered a better prospect. Won't be upset if that's where we go.

[frommd]

Either would be awesome. But, on the field play aside, I do have to say I think RGIII has the right charisma to charm DC.

[Tuff]

Is this a joke?

Why would it be a joke? Simply asking if Skins fans had their choice if they would take Andrew Luck if they could, or stick with the RGIII euphoria that has spread across Washington.

[rebornempowered]

They moved into #2 because they knew that at that spot they would get one of two great QB prospects. I am sure they feel good about this no matter what happens.

[KDawg]

Why would it be a joke? Simply asking if Skins fans had their choice if they would take Andrew Luck if they could, or stick with the RGIII euphoria that has spread across Washington.

They both fit our scheme. They both have slightly different strengths and weaknesses.

Our offense is a high to low read playaction boot style offense. Griffin has an incredibly high completion percentage on deep passes. His mobility and athleticism fit the bootleg portion of our offense incredibly well. He has good pocket presence and good awareness.

Luck doesn't have the deep ball completion percentage Griffin does, and he's not quite as athletic, but he's a far superior pocket passer, despite the fact I think Griffin is good in that area.

Both guys fit what we do, almost to a tee. They have different strengths among the two, but neither of them have very many glaring weaknesses. Give me either of them and I'm happy.

[Phat Hog]

I'll take either one and be happy. From a hilights perspective...got to be RGIII

[bushwack]

Why would it be a joke? Simply asking if Skins fans had their choice if they would take Andrew Luck if they could, or stick with the RGIII euphoria that has spread across Washington.

I took it as a joke because you asked "Would Andrew Luck be just as exciting or less so?" Why would getting Luck be less exciting? Either way with the #2 pick we guaranteed ourselves that we will have our franchise QB, whether it be Luck or RGIII.

Honestly, I would rather be in the spot we're in, and not have to make a decision between the two, and always wondering what if. We don't have a difficult decision to make, we're simply taking whichever QB the Colts pass on.

[SWFLSkins]

Why would it be a joke? Simply asking if Skins fans had their choice if they would take Andrew Luck if they could, or stick with the RGIII euphoria that has spread across Washington.


Why was there not a fourth option that I am just dancing that we get either one and the drought is over?

Now back to dancing...http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa278/TheGrandHatching/1281350382_9.gif

[FSUSkins24]

I'm gonna be honest, if we were the first pick I would go Luck... but it's not like RG3 is much of a drop off.

If the Colts take Luck then I'm ecstatic for RG3. If the Colts take RG3 then I'm ecstatic for Luck. Can't wait for draft day!

---------- Post added March-10th-2012 at 11:07 AM ----------


Honestly, I would rather be in the spot we're in, and not have to make a decision between the two, and always wondering what if. We don't have a difficult decision to make, we're simply taking whichever QB the Colts pass on.

I like this reasoning, and I concur.

[bowhunter]

Oops, I didn't see the 3rd option. Although I love the thought of RG3 (or Luck!) coming here, based upon the price, I would rather have traded down and kept future talent. Don't get me wrong, No one will cheer more loudly for RG3 than I, but in this instance in time and price paid, this is a huge gamble. I'm hoping it works. Now that Newton, Sanchez, and Bradford have all won a superbowl, maybe we'll be next

[Tuff]

Our offense is a high to low read playaction boot style offense. Griffin has an incredibly high completion percentage on deep passes. His mobility and athleticism fit the bootleg portion of our offense incredibly well. He has good pocket presence and good awareness.

I agree, but for Griffin, we need a deep threat. Armstrong is not the answer IMO. Whoever we may pursue in FA, should be a deep threat guy, and young to have a future with RGIII. I also hope, that because RGIII can scramble, that we ignore the OL holes and figure to let him just get away from the rush. That would be a big mistake. I would address that this draft, then the defense with the rest of the picks.

I just prefer pocket passers, tend to work out in the long run. I hope RGIII doesn't turn into a Daunte Culpepper.

[Hooper]

Has anyone taken a good look at the Colts roster?

I would seriously pull an Eli.

[KDawg]

I agree, but for Griffin, we need a deep threat. Armstrong is not the answer IMO. Whoever we may pursue in FA, should be a deep threat guy, and young to have a future with RGIII. I also hope, that because RGIII can scramble, that we ignore the OL holes and figure to let him just get away from the rush. That would be a big mistake. I would address that this draft, then the defense with the rest of the picks.

I just prefer pocket passers, tend to work out in the long run. I hope RGIII doesn't turn into a Daunte Culpepper.

Armstrong was never the answer anyways. :)

[MartinC]

I like RGIII but he has work to do on his footwork and working under centre. I don't think it will be a problem but it will take work. He also has no experience making the kind of reads he will be asked to make in a pro offense.

Luck meanwhile has lots of experience is a pro style system and has tremendous footwork dropping back and working in the pocket. He is also not far behind RGIII in terms of his athletic ability.

Luck is clearly the most pro ready of the two to me and I would take him over RGIIi right now in a heart beat. While both guys are tremendous prospects neither is a sure thing - for me Luck is closer to a sure thing than RGIII.

[HailGreen28]

Armstrong was never the answer anyways. :)(nevermind, saw your answer in the thread.) :doh: Just saw your name and immediately went to ask who *you* would pick.

[Dan T.]

To me, Luck is more of a sure thing. People underestimate his athleticism. He had Cam Newton measurables at the Combine. Of course, Griffin's measurables are off the charts.

They are both athletic, smart, hard working kids destined for success in the NFL. Luck's is more prepared right now to step in, Griffin ain't far behind though.

[skinfan2k]

the only way if something happens to these guys like a freak injury and then the redskins are screwed but otherwise we walk out of the draft with a franchise QB

[Tuff]

Has anyone taken a good look at the Colts roster?

I would seriously pull an Eli.

I haven't, because it might be different tomorrow :)
Every day, there is a new fatality to that roster. Maybe they're going to draft an entire new team, and pick up a bunch of undrafted bodies to field a team. Luck will love it there.

Peyton was in a similar situation, and it eventually worked out. I imagine that Irsay will get pieces in time. But yeah, for this coming season, RGIII, if he goes to Washington, will have more talent to work with. That is one team, that even the Skins have more talent than.

And I agree with the comments about "that's the great thing about drafting #2 - no pressure" but consider this - whoever comes to Washington, will be under a lot more pressure. The Colts are going to be garbage next year. Skins fans are already talking "oh playoffs for sure, gonna win the NFC East" so when we again fail to win the division, it will be a unsuccessful season? Not to mention, we traded a lot to move to this spot, so that pressure will occur as well.

Ryan Leaf said in later years he constantly heard how much the Chargers gave up to acquire him (or Manning) and it bothered him. He didn't want to be a "savior" and I doubt Robert or Andrew does either - they just want to play football. That pressure should not come with the money, not for a rookie.

Set our hopes at a 7-9 record, and aim low for year 1 here IMO. I won't be dissapointed if this team wins 5 games. We have a few pieces, but we are not exactly loaded with talent IMO. And our star LB will need replacing in the near future - that's a huge hole.

---------- Post added March-10th-2012 at 11:20 AM ----------


Armstrong was never the answer anyways. :)

Haha, touche! (Some people thought he was though - I was like "What?")

[Chris21]

Has anyone taken a good look at the Colts roster?

I would seriously pull an Eli.

Interesting you say that. Replacing a legend and taking over a team shredding its roster is not very appealing. Luck and or RGIII might not be like that and grateful for the opportunity regardless but I keep thinking along those lines.

Compare the two situations.

[skinfan2k]

what if RG3 and Luck pull an eli and don't want to go to DC or Indy lol?

[Blue Collar Skins]

Is this a joke? Of course either QB will be exciting. I'll gladly take RGIII or Luck as a "consolation" prize. Ding ding ding we have a winner! :)

[#98QBKiller]

Andrew Luck if the Colts passed on him, but at this point I'm just as happy with RG3.

[Bang]

I agree with SWFL.
Either way we win.

And now back to dancing
http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/3800000/Animated-GIFs-flight-of-the-conchords-3809604-449-328.gif

~beBop

[Rocky52Mc]

the only way if something happens to these guys like a freak injury and then the redskins are screwed but otherwise we walk out of the draft with a franchise QB

And in that circumstance you can blame the past 20 years on that. Because in the end, this franchise NEEDED to do this. It's options were going to run out. The Browns + another team were attempting to trade with the Rams on Thursday night and the Skins pulled the big trigger. This franchise needed this as long as he see's the field.

[ArmchairRedskin]

Number 2 is a win/win.

http://startheory.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/ace_ventura.gif?w=495

[Peregrine]

Hah, Luck will bet he next Manning, I don't think there are many teams that would take RG3 over Luck. RG3 for as good as he might be only had one good year, while Luck had several. He's been talked about for years, just like Manning was all throughout college.

Either way, we win :-)

[Tuff]

Yeah, but fans are still clearly voting for RGIII over Luck. I don't get it.

[big#44]

I've been thinking about this quite a bit actually. I feel like overall Luck has the potential to be a better QB once he has the pieces around him. But RG3 has the ability to carry an offense with his speed. With that said, it would actually make more sense for the Colts to take Griffin. They have nothing on their offense after they gutted their team. No pieces that Luck would need to be as successful as he could be. At least they dont have those pieces yet. I would say that the Redskins have a few more pieces then the Colts and Luck would be a better fit here then the Colts and give him a better chance for immediate success. Whoever we get, I am happy with, because his name isnt grossman or Beck.

[Main-Maine]

Has anyone taken a good look at the Colts roster?

I would seriously pull an Eli.

No a Elway! Elway already told the colts to stick it when they drafted him. Elway is very similar if Luck refuses.

[sportjunkie07]

would much rather have luck. both have similar ceilings, luck has a much higher floor.

[jflow78]

I like either one. So, I'm not voting.

Seriously, how can you not like this draft, either we get the best QB prospect in 10 years, or we get one of the best prospects in 10 years who also happens to be more athletic than nearly any QB in the league but is a passer first.

[authentic]

No doubt i would take Luck... no question.. But, realistically i don't think we would be forced to make that choice.. Luck is going to be a Colt.

---------- Post added March-10th-2012 at 12:22 PM ----------

Now back to my regularly scheduled celebration.............:ols:

az_GK81dYOY

[HailGreen28]

No a Elway! Elway already told the colts to stick it when they drafted him. Elway is very similar if Luck refuses.Eli also pulled an "Elway", announcing pre-draft that he would refuse to play for San Diego if drafted by them.

[Thirtyfive2seven]

This is the best time to be a Redskin fan. We are finally going to draft a franchise QB!! I want RGIII and have made that clear for over a year now but even if the Colts go nuts and take him we still get Luck which isn't so bad either :) The price was a little high but this is a QB league and look at how Cam energized Carolina last year.

[terpskins10]

RG3 for as good as he might be only had one good year, while Luck had several.


Still don't get this. Griffin has played well every year except for the one in which he had the major injury, but no one was talking about him because he was an athletic QB from Baylor. He's had more than just one good year, unlike someone like Sanchez.

[HeluCopter29]

I think RGIII is going to go down as better then Luck 20 years from now. However, I think RGIII has a greater chance of being a bust then Luck does.

If I had to choose I'd pick Luck simply because it's a safer pick. RGIII scares me injury wise and runs a simpler offense. I think we're well off either way, but Luck would be my pick.

[jflow78]

Now back to my regularly scheduled celebration.............:ols:

:rotflmao: ahhhhh, God bless David Alan Grier, that man is hilarious. Had me crying a little right there.

So far that's my favorite dancing clip.

[Rocky52Mc]

I like either one. So, I'm not voting.

Seriously, how can you not like this draft, either we get the best QB prospect in 10 years, or we get one of the best prospects in 10 years who also happens to be more athletic than nearly any QB in the league but is a passer first.

Can you just imagine how amazing the boot leg is going to look this year throwing it off to Freddy D, or (Big FA WR), or Hankerson!

[JoeSkins]

I mis-clicked on my pro-RG3 vote...stupid tablet.

And honestly I only picked him to be a Homer since the Colts will certainly go Luck.

[TheGreek1973]

I just had a real funny thought. I want for us the QB the Colts pass on. I mean what are the chances those bozos pick two HOF QBs in a row? LOL

[Truant]

People are naturally attached to RGIII because Luck has been a non-option for about six months now. Personally I'd go with Luck. Luck's floor is much higher than RGIII. Someone to get us into the right plays, hit open receivers, adjust blocking at the line... along with his natural talents and underrated athletic ability would be a perfect fit for this offense. Not saying that RGIII can't do these things, but there is more of an adjustment for him.

RGIII is a no-brainer at #2, but I'd say Luck is more pro-ready. Neither are sure things, but I'd take the "more" sure of a thing in Luck.

[redskin01fan]

Cant Vote because the option of "I will be happy with either one" is not there. I love RGIII but I think Luck is the better prospect. I think the Colts feel the same as well.

[nemocystem]

a tough question, no doubt. personally, i still think Luck is slightly more of a "gurantee," but that RGIII has more upside along with two other very important features. he holds the edge in excitement factor...gawd i long for the ultra mobile QB to be on my team for once. And he just seems to be soooooo much more charismatic than Luck which will not only raise the team's profile, i am sure it will do wonders for the team chemistry.

it's been a looooong time since we've had a TRUE leader in our midst. now, i'm still a little on the wait & see as far as some things go...but man...i am excited at the prospect that this guy will be handed the keys to our Offense.

his presence alone, in theory, should make our running game more interesting. if/when we add a couple of receivers to go with him....man...the sky's the limit!

[GaryGreenMonk]

I think we'd have more chance of instant success with Luck, but I'll take either.

I'm so happy I could cry.

[UK SKINS FAN '74]

I'm so happy I could cry.

Just do it man. Let the tears flow.

Today has been a pretty damn good day.

[Destructis]

Look at it this way, if Shanny isn't sold on Luck and Indy takes RGIII, we can get a kings ransom and trade out and probably get 4 1st's ROFL

[Ashburn Dave]

Luck is who I voted for but I am going to be just as happy with RGIII.

If the Colts pick RGIII then they over thought it. They should stay the course and take the safe pick which is Luck.

[GaryGreenMonk]

Look at it this way, if Shanny isn't sold on Luck and Indy takes RGIII, we can get a kings ransom and trade out and probably get 4 1st's ROFL

I would literally punch a hole through my TV if we did that. Draft one of these 2 QB's... use our cap space and get a stud WR and some DB's and lets win some god **** games.

[SnyderShrugged]

I went with Luck, but it really was a tough call for me to make. How awesome to even have the opportunity to decide!

[AirMayo21]

Hahaha I love that this is actually a question for us to answer. Either we get Robert Griffin III, the most electrifying player I've ever seen or Andrew Luck, who could be one of the best quarterbacks of all time; both with extreme levels of upside with what I believe to be an extremely low bust-factor. I picked Griffin, but lets put it this way; I don't believe we could go wrong with either.

[Idaho fan]

I think its a 1 and 1a... In any other year RGIII would go first. Im happy with either QB at this point in time but if I had my choice I would probably lean towards Luck as I think he has that size and is a little bit more of a "can't miss pick"... RGIII however is a very very close second in my mind.

[Voice_of_Reason]

If Luck falls into our lap, we take him, and laugh all the way to the bank. People forget because of the 4.4 40, the amazing athletic ability, etc, that Luck is the consensus best QB in the draft, and most have him rated as one of the best since Peyton and Aikman.

If the Colts go the way of RGIII, I say, great. Take Luck, no questions.

However, if they take Luck, then RGIII is a brilliant alternative.

I think you can't go wrong with either guy. I'm voting Luck because he is more prototypical, has good speed and athleticism, and throws one hell of a beautiful ball.

[skinsfan07]

Yeah, but fans are still clearly voting for RGIII over Luck. I don't get it.

because he's the better overall prospect. Luck is the safe pick. I'd love to have Luck but would much rather have RGIII. Luck's ceiling is only so high, however RGIII's is infinite.

[STBonecrusher21]

Luck is going to the Colts. I don't think it's even a question for them.

[big#44]

With Irsay running the show you never know. He's like the new Al Davis.

[DexterSackMachine]

This is like choosing Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. There is no downside as we see it right now.

[jRight]

I want RG3. Now that were are in the 2 spot. What if Luck now pulls a Elway/Eli?

[The Dude]

This is like choosing Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. There is no downside as we see it right now.

They will be battling out for MVP for the next decade!

[smackdown 46]

I am so happy I could bust!.....Griff has more upside right now than Luck with a team that is very close, he wont have a piece meal mess to deal with, and with consistent coaching in a system that fits his style we can't lose.

Shan can mold and shape him any way he wants ,his poise reflects the confidence one gets with good skills to back it up.

Only have to get Gaffney to cough up the #10 jersey and let the games begin,,,,,HAIL! :logo:

[akorn22]

we gave up too much. it's like we went to the casino and put all our money on double zero. hope this works and doesnt end up like leaf or leinart

[Hitman21ST]

we gave up too much. it's like we went to the casino and put all our money on double zero. hope this works and doesnt end up like leaf or leinart

How in the world is one pick per draft for the next three drafts "all our money"? Please explain.

[Pedro]

Yeah, but fans are still clearly voting for RGIII over Luck. I don't get it.

Griffin has been talked about on ES for a while now. Yes he's the highlight reel guy but stat wise he's also more accurate than Luck. He does want to be the guy to take the focus, but in a how he helps the team way rather than look at me. His interviews are as spectacular in their own way as his on field high light reals. His personality/character is as tailor made for 'Washington Redskins, QB' as his on field skill set. Luck would be great too but Griffin is just that little bit higher ceiling imo.

As for the Colts culling their roster, I like it. Proven poor roster being gutted to build around the new guy. As long as they go OL to keep Luck from taking a beating I think they're taking the opportunity to get rid of big contracts/older players and set themselves up for another sustained run of winning lots of regular season games. It'll all rest on the talent evaluation but I like the idea. Not Peyton's team anymore so the comparison to be made is Manning's first season, and lots of new players etc makes it easier for Luck to step in as the man.

[SkinsHokieFan]

You can't go wrong either way. If somehow Luck falls to us I will be thrilled.

Right now though I am expecting RG3. And I am damn excited

[Special K]

Personally, I want RG3 b/c I've fallen in love with him.

HOWEVER, I will not be disappointed in the least if we get Luck.

We can't lose with either of those options :D

[DogofWar1]

I love RGIII, heck, I switched my FB profile pic to the shop of him in a Burg and Gold outfit. That being said, Luck is Luck, as good as RGIII is, Luck is pro-ready, day one, and has nearly the same measurables as RGIII.

I think both of their ceilings are sky-high, but if I have to choose right now, I'm taking Luck. That being said, RGIII is biting at his heels.

[myzhi]

It can only be on ES where RGIII gets more votes than Luck. This kinda reminds me of Manning vs Leaf debate. Should the Colts take the pro ready QB or one with higher potential. No doubt, the Colts will repeat history.

[bushwack]

It can only be on ES where RGIII gets more votes than Luck. This kinda reminds me of Manning vs Leaf debate. Should the Colts take the pro ready QB or one with higher potential. No doubt, the Colts will repeat history.

Yes, the Colts very well may repeat history with Luck turning into Manning; however, that doesn't meant that RGIII will become Leaf. RGIII is beyond physically ready for the next step, and he appears to be mentally ready for the challenges that lay ahead of him in the NFL. There's no reason as to why both QBs can't be great.

[Long n Left]

The fact that it's almost two to one RGIII over Luck makes me shake my head in wonder.

Believe me, I hope beyond ALL hope that if RGIII dons the B&G he becomes a hall of famer, but honestly people, there's a reason Andrew Luck is considered the BEST prospect at the QB position in 25 years, and that's almost unanimous.

[DJD2]

Is it wrong to say I'll be disappointed if the Colts steal RGIII and we have to "settle for" Luck.

[Tay]

Check out this video. At about 2:45 Bill Polian discussed Luck vs RG3, and indirectly said RG3 should the #1 QB on our draft board.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW_mQ3qWsl4

[terpfan]

Is there any way we can out all the people who chose #3?

[STBonecrusher21]

Is there any way we can out all the people who chose #3?

Just click the number of votes up in the poll. To the left of the percentages.

[Cliffmark1]

Luck is more impressive as a passer and can run OK too. Rg3 is just a beast, I think of him as what st 21 as a qb.

[Charlied72]

In a perfect world i would take Luck, however i highly doubt he will not be the 1st overall pick.

[wildbill1952]

I had the exact same question, if the Colts sudeenly went and decided that Griffin has more upside. Luck will be an immediate starter. Griffin will be also on Washington, but has more to learn. His reading of defenses is going to be his biggest learning curve, but he's a better physical specimen than Luck. He has to learn to stop staring down receivers and he has to learn to take some fire off his fastball on some throws. He needs a little more accuracy on intermediate throws, but his long ball is excellent. But Qb's who run often in the NFL end up getting hurt and it's hoped he learns to stay in the pocket or, more importantly, that the OLine is improved enough to keep the pocket around him open.

On a related note, I think Armstrong's biggest problem was that Beck wouldn't throw long and Rex couldn't. When Armstrong lit the burners he just outran Rex's arm. That won't be a problem with RG III.

I think in year one, Luck is going to be better. But by year end or year two Griffin is going to make big strides. The length of that stride is going to be a factor of his work ethic and if he behaves like he has all his life, he'll be very good. Whether he'll be great will depend on those around him.

[spjunkies]

I had the exact same question, if the Colts sudeenly went and decided that Griffin has more upside. Luck will be an immediate starter. Griffin will be also on Washington, but has more to learn. His reading of defenses is going to be his biggest learning curve, but he's a better physical specimen than Luck. He has to learn to stop staring down receivers and he has to learn to take some fire off his fastball on some throws. He needs a little more accuracy on intermediate throws, but his long ball is excellent. But Qb's who run often in the NFL end up getting hurt and it's hoped he learns to stay in the pocket or, more importantly, that the OLine is improved enough to keep the pocket around him open.

On a related note, I think Armstrong's biggest problem was that Beck wouldn't throw long and Rex couldn't. When Armstrong lit the burners he just outran Rex's arm. That won't be a problem with RG III.

I think in year one, Luck is going to be better. But by year end or year two Griffin is going to make big strides. The length of that stride is going to be a factor of his work ethic and if he behaves like he has all his life, he'll be very good. Whether he'll be great will depend on those around him.

That's the great thing about Griffin. He's fast as hell and CAN run, but he's really a pocket Quarterback.

[SKINS'n'Spurs]

So if RGIII has this great long ball what WRs do we have on the team now that will be perfect for catching it? Is that Armstrong? I know Hankerson has big hands, but is he fast enough to get separation on a deep pass play? If we could pick any WR in the league (not considering contracts, price, anything except the way they play) who would be the best for a QB like RGIII?

[Mr. Nostril]

The answer probably should be Andrew Luck, but I've gotten myself so excited for RG3 that if come April 26th, I hear Roger Goodell say, "with the 1st pick in the NFL draft the Indianapolis Colts select Robert Griffin the Third, Baylor University," I won't be able to help but be disappointed. It's not that I wouldn't love to have Luck, as he's probably the better prospect. It's just that a different great thing was happening than the thing I got excited about.

[Burgold]

Andrew Luck would probably be the better choice because he's probably a little better at what qbs are supposed to do, diagnosing the play and throwing the ball. The 4.3 speed is nice, but that's hot fudge, it's the topping, not the sundae. The fact that RGIII has the smarts, accuracy, and arm as well as the mobility is wonderful... but the running ability should not be in your primary list.

The fact that Luck has been highly touted and scrutinized every which way to Sunday for two years and still is the concensus No. 1 speaks really well of him as a prospect. RGIII is a bit flashier, but I think he is definitely the 1b to Luck's 1a. As potential goes though, I don't think there is all that much separating them.

[ConnSKINS26]

So if RGIII has this great long ball what WRs do we have on the team now that will be perfect for catching it? Is that Armstrong? I know Hankerson has big hands, but is he fast enough to get separation on a deep pass play? If we could pick any WR in the league (not considering contracts, price, anything except the way they play) who would be the best for a QB like RGIII?

Mike Wallace. (ruling out the obvious choice of Calvin)

[Dirt]

Yea, I've done a lot more studying of RG3, so I've basically put myself in love with him, seeing so much lol

While it seems weak to just blindly run with the opinion of the media, I still think the overwhelming, consensus approval of Luck should be enough for a simple fan to go with.

I just *like* RG3 better though

[Chris Worthy]

So if RGIII has this great long ball what WRs do we have on the team now that will be perfect for catching it? Is that Armstrong? I know Hankerson has big hands, but is he fast enough to get separation on a deep pass play? If we could pick any WR in the league (not considering contracts, price, anything except the way they play) who would be the best for a QB like RGIII?

Funny you should say something about Armstrong:

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/03/10/eye-surgery-for-anthony-armstrong/

Looks like he is getting ready for those deep passes.

[SKINS'n'Spurs]

Yea, I've done a lot more studying of RG3, so I've basically put myself in love with him, seeing so much lol

While it seems weak to just blindly run with the opinion of the media, I still think the overwhelming, consensus approval of Luck should be enough for a simple fan to go with.

I just *like* RG3 better though

I like the way you put that. It's pretty much how I feel. Luck has been the overwhelming #1 and I accept that, being just a fan and no real aficionado of schemes and such, but going through all the RGIII highlights and interviews just has me so excited to land him in the draft. I really will be upset to lose what seems like such a great human being and football player to the Colts if they pull a 180 and grab RGIII. I doubt it will happen, I just spent the last hour reading through the Colt's Fan Forum and not one person mentioned getting RGIII. They are absolutely convinced they are rebuilding with Luck. I think they would tear down Lucas Oil if their crazy owner messed with them any further after completely demolishing the team they have known and loved for quite a while.

[Forever21]

Regardless of which one we get I'll be giddy as a school girl.

I'm excited for RGIII because I'm assuming it's him. But if it ends up Luck I won't be disappointed

[JesseNeckred]

I'd rather have RGIII, but jeez Luck would be awesome too if the Colts take RGIII, it's a win win really

I really hope the Christmas wish in my sig finally comes true

[Pedro]

Robinson ran 100m in under 11 seconds (wiki page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldrick_Robinson)) which is pretty rapid. 4.30 low for the 40 (http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=71560&draftyear=2011&genpos=)

[Destino]

Luck. He is better at reading defenses and that's a big advantage.

[Tuff]

The fact that it's almost two to one RGIII over Luck makes me shake my head in wonder.

Believe me, I hope beyond ALL hope that if RGIII dons the B&G he becomes a hall of famer, but honestly people, there's a reason Andrew Luck is considered the BEST prospect at the QB position in 25 years, and that's almost unanimous.

All the Skins fans on Facebook are in worship of RGIII as well. the fans on every single other team think it was too much for an unproven QB with less "pro ready" credentials. I happen to agree, but I'm always in the minority up here. I use that "logic' thing and don't start every season predicting 'We're gonna win 10 games and a playoff game" which has been a consistent belief around here since 2008 at least. Laughable.

Skins are 6-10 next year. And I wish fans would accept that and realize that so they don't all pile heat and hate on RGIII to make the guy want to leave after 1 season, while all the fans blame him that THEY were the ones to pile all this bull**** pressure on the guy (I assume he will be our pick, yeah)

[H@iL2Gibb$]

Look at it this way, if Shanny isn't sold on Luck and Indy takes RGIII, we can get a kings ransom and trade out and probably get 4 1st's ROFL

trade the pick to the Browns for their 4th & 22nd this year and 1st rd picks in 2013 & 2014 hahah

On a serious note, I'm happy with either one

[The Consigliere]

It's not even a question to consider. Luck's a once a decade prospect, maybe even better than that, RG3 is a once a decade athlete at QB, and a once a draft QB prospect. Bear that in mind, he's got the talent, upside and mental make up of a traditional #1 QB in a draft, absolutely rare athleticism as well but he aint close to Luck as a prospect period. Anyone who tells you different isn't paying attention to what determines true greatness, true HOF potential in a player. I've seen 2 or 3 QB's in my life that have Luck's mental make up, vision, judgment, leadership, and physical, technical and athletic skills rolled into one. That's it. He's the kind of QB who could have been drafted in a far far far rougher, and more brutal NFL, and succeeded without a problem. You can't say that about virtually any QB drafted these days. You can about Luck.

I love that we'll be getting RG3, but I would run dancing naked through a casino down in reno if we got Luck. Okay, maybe just through my condo complex.

[ConnSKINS26]

RG3 "ain't close to Luck as a prospect period"? I disagree completely.

Some say that RG3's stock is soaring higher than it should based off of a few months of hype. The people saying that are the ones who were unaware of him until he played TCU in the fall.

Luck is also an elite prospect, but he's been the recipient of insane amounts of hype and positive propoganda/media-crowning for about two seasons now. If you think that doesn't have an effect, even subconsciously, on the average person's "knowlege" of the prospects, I don't know what to tell you. If anyone's benefiting from hype...well, I'll be honest, its both of them. But they deserve it.

If he's a better prospect than RG3, its only because he's a cleaner prospect that is possibly easier to project, and its not by as much as you're making it out to be.

[The Dude]

If he's a better prospect than RG3, its only because he's a cleaner prospect that is possibly easier to project, and its not by as much as you're making it out to be.

Exactly. Luck's ceiling is that he'll be a very good QB. One you can count on to make the "traditional" NFL throws.

RGIII is a talent that transcends anything we've seen in the NFL. He'll be the blueprint for future star QBs.

It's almost unfair that we'll get him at #2, but if the Colts want a fast track to mediocrity, then by all means, take Luck.

[braindx]

As much as I want to say RG3 I gotta say Luck.

Luck is a better version of Cutler (faster with 4.67 vs 4.77 40) and already has most of the NFL skills that are required. And it's a plus that Stanford already threw a lot to their TEs which we have 2 good TEs here for him to get comfortable with. We've already seen what Cutler can do in Shanny's offense.... top 5 in the league pretty much every year.

Though I salivate over the play action bootleg with RG3....... and RG3 seems to have a better touch with the deep ball. Those are the two things that make me want to prefer him over Luck.

I wouldn't be unhappy with either though.

[Main-Maine]

Eli also pulled an "Elway", announcing pre-draft that he would refuse to play for San Diego if drafted by them.

Yeah I got that, but just pointing out that its more similar to Elway. Elway did this to the COLTS, which is the organization thats going to draft Luck.
For something like that to happen twice to an organization lol.

[ddub52]

Either way I am happy. But I cant help but feel that the Colts would have traded the number one pick for the same package we gave to the Rams

[Kirk Cousins' Cousins]

I don't think the Colts would pass on the opportunity to get their new franchise QB this year, no matter what the cost.

[HailGreen28]

All the Skins fans on Facebook are in worship of RGIII as well. the fans on every single other team think it was too much for an unproven QB with less "pro ready" credentials. I happen to agree, but I'm always in the minority up here. I use that "logic' thing and don't start every season predicting 'We're gonna win 10 games and a playoff game" which has been a consistent belief around here since 2008 at least. Laughable.

Skins are 6-10 next year. And I wish fans would accept that and realize that so they don't all pile heat and hate on RGIII to make the guy want to leave after 1 season, while all the fans blame him that THEY were the ones to pile all this bull**** pressure on the guy (I assume he will be our pick, yeah)Great post. People rave over Newtons first year, and forget what the Panther's record was last season. Now we've got RG3, it's not like we're SB favorites this season or anything.

[Redskins4ever]

I'll take Griffin III over Luck any day. Luck is a great prospect, but Griffin's accuracy, athleticism, excellent deep ball pass, and ability to escape from pressure is what makes him more intriguing than Luck to me. Luck is great too, but he's considered better than Griffin because he's perceived as more pro ready. But Griffin III to me is the better quarterback of the two.

[NLC1054]

As much as I want to say RG3 I gotta say Luck.

Luck is a better version of Cutler (faster with 4.67 vs 4.77 40) and already has most of the NFL skills that are required. And it's a plus that Stanford already threw a lot to their TEs which we have 2 good TEs here for him to get comfortable with. We've already seen what Cutler can do in Shanny's offense.... top 5 in the league pretty much every year.

Though I salivate over the play action bootleg with RG3....... and RG3 seems to have a better touch with the deep ball. Those are the two things that make me want to prefer him over Luck.

I wouldn't be unhappy with either though.

I don't think Cutler and Luck are alike at all. Luck's no where near the gunslinger Cutler is, doesn't have the arm. I think even athletically they have different skillsets, and even in college, Luck's footwork is TONS better than Cutler's.

I think of Luck as a more athletic Matt Ryan. Good, not great arm, fundamentally sound, smart as hell, but he's got the wheels and legs and playmaking ability outside the pocket that Matty Ice doesn't.

Basically it's the choice between a better version of Matt Ryan, and a better version of Michael Vick.

Don't think I'd be crying over having either one of those guys. At all. Anyone who would be is crazy.

...Though a dude at my birthday last night did say that Andrew Luck was just enough another strong armed white boy.

[rumplestilskin]

I would take either one of these guys. My question is does either guy bennifit from doing their respective pro-days? I guess in RG3's mind he still has a shot at number one and Luck will have to match or best him by doing his the next day. However it is pretty much a forgone conclusion that Luck will be a Colt so I dont think Griffin bennifits or loses by forfieting his pro-day. For those Skins fans who prefer Griffin over Luck I would suspect that they would prefer Griffin to not work out and reduce the chance of catching the Colts eye. RG3 is a competitor so my gut says he will still go out there and throw.

[JoeKnowsBest]

I would much rather have Luck. Heck for the price they paid I would've rather gotten Sam Bradford. I don't know what all the hype is about rg III. He's Vick 2.0 and has a very small & frail build. He could wind up getting hurt and only playing half the season each year like Vick and mcnabb always seemed to do. Way too much to pay for a guy like that. Why didn't they just trade up to the number 1 spot for that price and ensure that they have the best QB? At least you know that luck is durable and consistent. Griffen still has many question marks. They got ripped off for the SECOND best spot in the draft at the cost of 3 potential pro-bowlers! Id be ok with it if we got the #1 spot or a young guy with experience like Bradford but they were not ambitious enough and were also reckless about it.

[slappy434]

I'm happy with either, but happier with Griffin. No player I've ever seen has been the perfect medicine for what's ailing this franchise...until now.

[NLC1054]

I would much rather have Luck. Heck for the price they paid I would've rather gotten Sam Bradford. I don't know what all the hype is about rg III. He's Vick 2.0 and has a very small & frail build. He could wind up getting hurt and only playing half the season each year like Vick and mcnabb always seemed to do.

He's the same size and weight as Aaron Rodgers....

And that second part makes no sense. Griffin doesn't have the frame, height or build of Vick...but he DEFINITELY doesn't have the same height, weight or build as McNabb. So what does that have to do with Griffin getting hurt.

You can't just pick two black dudes who happened to get hurt and compare them together to this black guy. Come on, sir.

[SkinsTillIDie]

I don't think Cutler and Luck are alike at all. Luck's no where near the gunslinger Cutler is, doesn't have the arm. I think even athletically they have different skillsets, and even in college, Luck's footwork is TONS better than Cutler's.

I think of Luck as a more athletic Matt Ryan. Good, not great arm, fundamentally sound, smart as hell, but he's got the wheels and legs and playmaking ability outside the pocket that Matty Ice doesn't.

Basically it's the choice between a better version of Matt Ryan, and a better version of Michael Vick.

Don't think I'd be crying over having either one of those guys. At all. Anyone who would be is crazy.

...Though a dude at my birthday last night did say that Andrew Luck was just enough another strong armed white boy.

See, rather than Matt Ryan, I think Luck is more like Peyton Manning... but with the athleticism of Cam Newton (outside of the cannon arm). This really cannot go unstated. Just as the common stereotype for a black quarterback is that he's all athlete and not a cerebral pocket passer, the stereotype for a white quarterback is just the opposite. Both Griffin and Luck emanate the inverse of these projections (and I'm not saying you do, by any means NLC, or even that anyone on here even is - for the record)

But in that sense, Luck has shown such an enormous maturity in the collegiate game, mastering that level to such a degree that we really haven't seen since Peyton. Given his body of work and the apparent mental intangibles for obsessive hard work and study, I think he can be as good as any quarterback in football. Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady -- the ceiling seems infinite. .. And with the athleticism of Cam Newton, albeit slightly smaller in size.

Which isn't to take anything away from Griffin. I wholeheartedly believe that Luck and Griffin will be the best QB duo in a draft since Elway and Marino. Crafting the perfect quarterback prospect, you wouldn't be all that far from these two players.

[NewEraofSkins08]

I want RG3 more because I've expected Indy to select Andrew Luck since they started 0-12. The whole excitement about #2 has been about RG3. But, if IND picks RG3 which is unlikely, I will gladly take Luck.

ES goes from a "Suck for Luck" thread last summer, to Luck as a 'consolation' prize at #2. I love this place...

[ConnSKINS26]

[Griffin] has a very small & frail build.

What? He's two inches taller than Vick, and 20 lbs. heavier. He's the same size as Aaron Rodgers.

I don't know how many times I have to post this. :ols:

http://cdn02.cdn.egotastic.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/09/robert-griffin-III-combine1-600x450.jpg

[donpappagiorgio]

Here's a question. What if Shanny wants to put a feeler out to Indy to see if they'd be willing to swap positions so that we could actually draft Luck instead of RGIII? Does he run the risk of word getting out to RGIII, and how would that affect him. Would he feel a little disrepected?

[terpfan]

Here's a question. What if Shanny wants to put a feeler out to Indy to see if they'd be willing to swap positions so that we could actually draft Luck instead of RGIII? Does he run the risk of word getting out to RGIII, and how would that affect him. Would he feel a little disrepected?

No sense in trading MORE at this point...

[Disco Dave]

I'll be happy with either QB.

[Ji]

I want RG3 more because I've expected Indy to select Andrew Luck since they started 0-12. The whole excitement about #2 has been about RG3. But, if IND picks RG3 which is unlikely, I will gladly take Luck.

ES goes from a "Suck for Luck" thread last summer, to Luck as a 'consolation' prize at #2. I love this place...

stuck with luck?

[leaf7]

either qb is fine, but luck has the size and durability advantage which is a big big deal.
protecting rg3 has to be an immediate top priority for the redskins. they have to teach him to avoid hits at all costs.

[Phat Hog]

Would gladly take either QB!!!

[TheGreek1973]

RG3 "ain't close to Luck as a prospect period"? I disagree completely.

Some say that RG3's stock is soaring higher than it should based off of a few months of hype. The people saying that are the ones who were unaware of him until he played TCU in the fall.

Luck is also an elite prospect, but he's been the recipient of insane amounts of hype and positive propoganda/media-crowning for about two seasons now. If you think that doesn't have an effect, even subconsciously, on the average person's "knowlege" of the prospects, I don't know what to tell you. If anyone's benefiting from hype...well, I'll be honest, its both of them. But they deserve it.

If he's a better prospect than RG3, its only because he's a cleaner prospect that is possibly easier to project, and its not by as much as you're making it out to be.

this is the post I agree most with. I believe the reason why RGIII has not received the hype that Luck has in the past three season is because of his injury in his second year. His freshman year for those that don't know was STELLAR. In the upset 41–21 victory over the Texas A&M Aggies, he recorded 13-of-23 passes for 241 yards, two touchdowns, no interceptions, and no sacks as a 17 year old freshman people, and oh yea then goes on his "second job" and runs first place in the 400-meter hurdles at both the Big 12 Conference Championship and the NCAA Midwest Regional Championship meets; he also broke the NCAA Midwest Regional 400-meter hurdles record in his track career. All that while graduating with a 3.67 in Political Science.

Now don't get me wrong I am not saying Luck is not up there and probably more ready to start than RGIII. He is. But I think overall RGIII is such an incredible talent you can't over look the higher ceiling he has than Luck.

Also lets not forget both those guys have the two ingredients that make a great QB. Character and work ethic. This is why I have told everyone this weekend that was skeptical and even come up with BS such nothing is a sure this. Barring injuries, at the very least they will be good to very good QBs and at the very most they with both be in the HOF. For me Luck is a carbon copy of Elway, with very similar athletic ability. RGIII however is Warren Moon with Darrel Green speed and work ethic. Even if we were picking number one i would be going RGIII.

[Baylor Alum]

this is the post I agree most with. I believe the reason why RGIII has not received the hype that Luck has in the past three season is because of his injury in his second year. His freshman year for those that don't know was STELLAR. In the upset 41–21 victory over the Texas A&M Aggies, he recorded 13-of-23 passes for 241 yards, two touchdowns, no interceptions, and no sacks as a 17 year old freshman people, and oh yea then goes on his "second job" and runs first place in the 400-meter hurdles at both the Big 12 Conference Championship and the NCAA Midwest Regional Championship meets; he also broke the NCAA Midwest Regional 400-meter hurdles record in his track career. All that while graduating with a 3.67 in Political Science.


You left out the fact that he set the NCAA Bowl Subdivision record for completions without an interception to start a career. He threw 209 passes without an interception as a true freshman (his first interception came in his ninth game). One of the most amazing stats though is that after the first 3 games last year, he had more touchdown passes than INCOMPLETIONS.

[FanboyOf91]

Whichever one isn't going to what's left of the Colts. :doh:



But Luck more than RGIII.

[TheGreek1973]

You left out the fact that he set the NCAA Bowl Subdivision record for completions without an interception to start a career. He threw 209 passes without an interception as a true freshman (his first interception came in his ninth game). One of the most amazing stats though is that after the first 3 games last year, he had more touchdown passes than INCOMPLETIONS.

yea but you know the skeptics will come back with. "But he played in a conference with terrible Defenses", never mind the fact that by himself put Baylor on the football map and won them their first heisman EVER. Any which way you look at it, we have a chance to get one of two college QBs that the league has not seen in a VERY VERY long time.

[surferskin]

Does anyone think it's possible that the Redskins rate RGIII higher than Luck? If not, why wouldn't we ever have expressed any interest to the Colts about the #1 pick?

[Chris21]

Just out of curiosity, how come the Colts have not started contact talks with Luck? I believe they can already sign him.

[STBonecrusher21]

Just out of curiosity, how come the Colts have not started contact talks with Luck? I believe they can already sign him.

They can begin talks tomorrow at 4 I believe.

[ChiefPowhatan17]

RG III is going to be some exciting fun football to watch and soak in every minute of it.

[Chris21]

They can begin talks tomorrow at 4 I believe.

Agh. Thanks. Thought I read they could have like a week or so ago

[Rixsterc]

I would literally punch a hole through my TV if we did that. Draft one of these 2 QB's... use our cap space and get a stud WR and some DB's and lets win some god **** games.

Good one.......
I feel the exact same way.

[dcdiscokid]

I would much rather have Luck. Heck for the price they paid I would've rather gotten Sam Bradford. I don't know what all the hype is about rg III. He's Vick 2.0 and has a very small & frail build. He could wind up getting hurt and only playing half the season each year like Vick and mcnabb always seemed to do. Way too much to pay for a guy like that. Why didn't they just trade up to the number 1 spot for that price and ensure that they have the best QB? At least you know that luck is durable and consistent. Griffen still has many question marks. They got ripped off for the SECOND best spot in the draft at the cost of 3 potential pro-bowlers! Id be ok with it if we got the #1 spot or a young guy with experience like Bradford but they were not ambitious enough and were also reckless about it.
He's nothing like Vick, have you even watched him play?? He's is not a running quarterback and has never been, just because hes mobile/fast does not mean he runs first. He is a pocket passer with mobility, like Arron Rodgers. And oh btw the same height and weight as Arron Rodgers....

[Hitman21ST]

I don't know how many times I have to post this. :ols:

Don't lie, you know you like posting that picture...

[Kosher Ham]

I am sure it has been seen here many times, but I agree with Skip in this case.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yeCfs7-EFI

[Jim Bob]

I kind of view this like the Trent Williams vs Russell Okung

I think Luck is the better overall prospect, but I think RGIII might be a better fit for Shanny's offense.

Kind of like how I felt that Okung was the better prospect in a vacuum, but that Williams' skillset was a better fit for the Shanny Zone Blocking Scheme.

And at the end of the day, I don't really care that much if the Redskins get RGIII or Luck. Either way, I'll be rooting for a QB with HUGE upside.

[TheGreek1973]

He's nothing like Vick, have you even watched him play?? He's is not a running quarterback and has never been, just because hes mobile/fast does not mean he runs first. He is a pocket passer with mobility, like Arron Rodgers. And oh btw the same height and weight as Arron Rodgers....

With a lot more speed....

[Redskins4ever]

Luck is considered ahead of Rg3 only because he played in a pro style offense at Stanford and thus, is considered more pro ready. Griffin on the other played in a spread offense at Baylor. Both are accurate passers. But possess a huge amount of arm strength. Both QBs were the two best in college football last year. We won't know which of the two is actually better until 2-3 years.

[Fischer fan]

This is like choosing Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. There is no downside as we see it right now.

More like choosing Peyton Manning or Micheal Vick. Both are great but I'd still pick the former.

[terpskins10]

More like choosing Peyton Manning or Micheal Vick. Both are great but I'd still pick the former.

Can we stop comparing Luck to Peyton or RG3 to Vick?

Luck is MUCH more like Aaron Rodgers and Griffin compares more to a more mobile, smarter, more clutch, harder working McNabb (I know, I know, but bear with me).

[Tuff]

He's nothing like Vick, have you even watched him play?? He's is not a running quarterback and has never been, just because hes mobile/fast does not mean he runs first. He is a pocket passer with mobility, like Arron Rodgers. And oh btw the same height and weight as Arron Rodgers....

Eh, I wouldn't exactly say he's not a scrambling QB, but as much as Vick - perhaps not. Still, I would, if given the #1 pick - choose Luck over RGIII with no hesitation. He;s far more pro ready, and I think that the team should of pushed harder for Carl Nicks rather than Garcon.

[sportjunkie07]

Luck is considered ahead of Rg3 only because he played in a pro style offense at Stanford and thus, is considered more pro ready. Griffin on the other played in a spread offense at Baylor. Both are accurate passers. But possess a huge amount of arm strength. Both QBs were the two best in college football last year. We won't know which of the two is actually better until 2-3 years.

most importantly, luck is considered ahead of rg3 because he has years of being the best qb in college, and as such he is considered to have a higher floor with a similar ceiling.

[SkinsNoles21]

People comparing RG3 to VIck make me sad.

I was just going to leave it at that, but I wont:

Vick in college was RAW. He had zero touch or accuracy, and was a run first qb.

RG3 has pinpoint accuracy, especially on the deep ball, and looks to throw BEFORE he runs. He is also bigger ... and, not that this matters because they both are crazy fast, but RG3 is faster than Vick.

Other than them both being african american and fast, I really wouldn't compare the two.

[greenspandan]

More like choosing Peyton Manning or Micheal Vick. Both are great but I'd still pick the former.

RG3 is not like vick. RG3 is a pass-first guy.

[MarkRascadizzle]

People comparing RG3 to VIck make me sad.

I was just going to leave it at that, but I wont:

Vick in college was RAW. He had zero touch or accuracy, and was a run first qb.

RG3 has pinpoint accuracy, especially on the deep ball, and looks to throw BEFORE he runs. He is also bigger ... and, not that this matters because they both are crazy fast, but RG3 is faster than Vick.

Other than them both being african american and fast, I really wouldn't compare the two.

Vick's a touch faster fwiw

[mistertim]

I would take Luck in a heartbeat before Griffin. Don't get me wrong, Griffin is a great prospect and I think he has the potential to be a great NFL QB; will love to watch him as a Skin. But, IMO, he isn't on the same level as Luck especially right now. Luck is way ahead of him in many aspects of the pro game (some which are the most important to success at the next level): quickly reading and reacting to defenses, calling protections and plays at the LOS, making fast full field reads, manipulating defenders, footwork, overall mechanics. There is nothing to say that Griffin won't pick that stuff up; he is a very smart and hard working kid. But there is also no reason to think that Luck won't continue to get better and better as well, which is why I don't buy it when people say "well RG3 has lower floor but definitely a higher ceiling". I think Luck certainly has a higher floor at the moment but I think their ceilings are pretty much even. Remember all that stuff about Peyton when he was coming out? "Well he definitely has a high floor but his ceiling might not be spectacular or anything". Yeah, I think its safe to say that Peyton's ceiling ended up being pretty damn good.

[Arsenic]

Any chance Griffin would refuse to go #1, preferring the Skins over Colts? :D

[Chris21]

I just have the weirdest feeling we end up with Luck. Again probably wishful thinking on my part. However, starting to really buy into the RG3 hype.

[El-Rey]

I just have the weirdest feeling we end up with Luck. Again probably wishful thinking on my part. However, starting to really buy into the RG3 hype.

Starting to kind of have that feeling also. The hype around RG3 is unreal right now. I think he is what the franchise needs right now, Luck would be awesome, but I just wouldn't be as ecstatic about it.

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

and I think that the team should of pushed harder for Carl Nicks rather than Garcon.

Carl Nicks is 340-350 lbs, man. He's not a fit for the ZBS. We'll be better off going for Briesel, Myers and Winston from Houston (well, I don't think we need Myers, honestly, Monty is a decent C.)

---------- Post added March-14th-2012 at 07:14 PM ----------


Any chance Griffin would refuse to go #1, preferring the Skins over Colts? :D

In all honesty, if I were Griffin, I'd say, "hey, in normal circumstances, I wouldn't be opposed but I prefer the Skins and I don't know I I would report for the Colts." People would want to demonize him, but the fact is, I'd also be like "hey, you guys dumped Peyton Manning for Luck and NOW you feelin' me? Nah. I'll take the team that always wanted me. Thanks."

That is IF I got feelers from the Colts that they were interested.

[ArmchairRedskin]

Ross Tucker ‏ @RossTuckerNFL
NFL Films guru @gregcosell said after 4 game breakdown he'd take RG3 over Luck. Also said Trent Richardson best player in draft.

[TheGreek1973]

I would take Luck in a heartbeat before Griffin. Don't get me wrong, Griffin is a great prospect and I think he has the potential to be a great NFL QB; will love to watch him as a Skin. But, IMO, he isn't on the same level as Luck especially right now. Luck is way ahead of him in many aspects of the pro game (some which are the most important to success at the next level): quickly reading and reacting to defenses, calling protections and plays at the LOS, making fast full field reads, manipulating defenders, footwork, overall mechanics. There is nothing to say that Griffin won't pick that stuff up; he is a very smart and hard working kid. But there is also no reason to think that Luck won't continue to get better and better as well, which is why I don't buy it when people say "well RG3 has lower floor but definitely a higher ceiling". I think Luck certainly has a higher floor at the moment but I think their ceilings are pretty much even. Remember all that stuff about Peyton when he was coming out? "Well he definitely has a high floor but his ceiling might not be spectacular or anything". Yeah, I think its safe to say that Peyton's ceiling ended up being pretty damn good.

i don't get your post at all. Ok I will give you that Luck is more Pro ready because of the offense he was running in collage. But that is not RGIII's fault that Baylor run the spread offense and was not allowed to make OL changes. How about I flip this and say Luck had success because he was allowed to do make reads but in the pro game, with defenses being much more complicated, he has to learn a a lot of things again.

Athletic ability is not even close and that is with Luck being a damn good athlete. Luck is more accurate in the short to medium passing game but RGIII is DEADLY accurate on the long ball and throwing accurate on the run. He has also made huge strides in his accuracy in the short to medium range also.

But one thing no one wants to talk about is the knee injury put RGIII out of the spotlight for a while. if not for that I believe RGIII would have gotten the same publicity as Luck did in his early.

For our offense I believe RGIII is more suited to the point where I would be disappointed to a certain degree if we get Luck.

[mistertim]

i don't get your post at all. Ok I will give you that Luck is more Pro ready because of the offense he was running in collage. But that is not RGIII's fault that Baylor run the spread offense and was not allowed to make OL changes.

Nobody knows how well Griffin can make OL changes or if he was "allowed to". The point is that it is obvious that Luck has a mastery of not only calling protections but calling audibles, recognizing defenses, adjusting pre and post snap, and even calling his own plays at the LOS and he has demonstrated that mastery consistently for 2 seasons now.



How about I flip this and say Luck had success because he was allowed to do make reads but in the pro game, with defenses being much more complicated, he has to learn a a lot of things again.

Sure you could do that, but I would say it is more "spin" than a "flip". You're taking an obvious positive of Luck's and trying to turn it into a negative which makes no sense. If he couldn't do what he did at the level he did in the complex system he played in he simply wouldn't have been nearly the QB he was/is. That or he would have at the very least not been calling many of his own audibles let alone his own plays. There are plenty of college teams that run relatively pro style offenses but you really don't see the kind of stuff from their QBs that you do from Luck.

Yes he will still have adjustments in the pro game to more complex and faster defenses. My point is that, IMO, he is more ready to face that day 1 than any other QB coming out in some time and that will let him grow quickly. He understand pro concepts, how to read coverages and manipulate them, how to go through full field progressions quickly and anticipate routes. Again, I'm not saying Griffin can't do this stuff or won't be able to learn but we don't know and it is likely that he will have a steeper learning curve.



Athletic ability is not even close and that is with Luck being a damn good athlete.

Where in my post was I talking about athletic ability? Luck is a great athlete, Griffin is an elite athlete. What does that have to do with the points I brought up when explaining why I would take Luck over Griffin? While being a great athlete (or elite athlete) is a big plus, I believe there are other things that are far more important to how successful a QB is in the NFL.



Luck is more accurate in the short to medium passing game but RGIII is DEADLY accurate on the long ball and throwing accurate on the run. He has also made huge strides in his accuracy in the short to medium range also.

I don't recall questioning Griffin's accuracy in my post. Both QBs are extremely accurate. You're correct about where they appear to be more accurate but you also have to take into account not only the systems they ran but also the weapons they had. Luck had to rely a huge amount on TEs and RBs in his passing game. He essentially had zero deep threats at WR outside of Owusu who was oft injured, so I don't think it is necessarily fair to watch him this year and essentially say "well, he doesn't have the deep ball". Stanford did play more of a ball control intermediate game but I really don't think that reflects on any lack of ability on Luck's part considering the above.

Then look at Baylor's system. Completely different animal. A spread, quick strike offense predicated on lots of short passes and lots of deep passes. And they could do that because they were almost the opposite of Stanford as far as offensive playmakers. Their playmakers were on the outside where they had burners at WR who could get separation and beat DBs down the field. This isn't taking away from Griffin. His deep ball is beautiful. All I'm saying is that you have to take into account systems and types of playmakers they had before you judge the QB's skillset after watching.

Oh, and Luck is extremely accurate throwing on the run. Watching any of his games this year you will see that and be impressed by it. I think they are pretty close to equal here.



But one thing no one wants to talk about is the knee injury put RGIII out of the spotlight for a while. if not for that I believe RGIII would have gotten the same publicity as Luck did in his early.

You may be right, you may not be. He did have a good third year after coming back. No way to know as it is pure speculation. But what we do know is that Luck has been in the spotlight for 2 years now and has continued to impress.



For our offense I believe RGIII is more suited to the point where I would be disappointed to a certain degree if we get Luck.

Honestly, I think both of them would be great for our offense. Griffin does have the speed factor but Luck is very mobile, quick for his size and would be able to run the boot game very well (as he did in college). As for being disappointed in getting Luck...I really don't even know what to say about that one. I guess some of it is just all of the ES hype about Griffin that has been building for months now. Again, I really really like Griffin as a prospect and will be thrilled to have him on this team. But to be "disappointed" in Luck seems pretty delusional to me.

[GoldSkinner]

Either would be awesome. But, on the field play aside, I do have to say I think RGIII has the right charisma to charm DC.

This is what concerns me.

Andrew Luck seems like the type of guy that doesn't care about charming fans, or anyone for that matter. In a profile look of RG3, he mentioned one of the things he likes to do is make people laugh and happy. That didn't sit well with me. We need a serious, no-nonsense leader on the offensive side of the ball with the cajones to smack players like Chris Cooley in the head for producing another dumb *** self-promoting video, especially in the event Fletcher doesn't re-sign because he's the only real leader this team has. Give me an anti-social, less happy-go-lucky QB any day. With those types, I know for sure they're not partying out in the city (ala Clinton Portis) with knucklehead teammates; instead, they're sitting in the film room all weekend and then some. We've already got enough of those clowns with Trent Williams, Chris Cooley, and Fred Davis. Plus, Andrew Luck is from D.C., and I'm sure that playing for his hometown will give him extra motivation to succeed.

[GWinSkins83]

I just think RG3 is the better player. I think throwing the ball is a tie. But we got to put into the equation that RG3 is the better long ball passer. And in the NFL I think that alone will make him successful. I think RG3 has that appeal that a WHOLE TEAM will get behind him. Also Luck has had the best Oline in the country for some time now. Baylor's Oline was not in the top 100 in the nation. Its all fine and dandy that Luck got a Pro System down and all but just looking at both play RG3 jumps off the screen as something unreal. Like you are seeing something we haven't seen before. I just hope Colts don't pull a okie doke on us.

[aREDSKIN]

Unsure if this article is posted in this thread or not but interesting read nonetheless.


It's important to understand that LCF is meant to be a tool used alongside the scouting reports, not instead of the scouting reports. What matters is not which quarterback is ahead of which other quarterback by 100 points. Instead, what's important is who has an overall good or bad projection. Scouts still come first and foremost, but this method is valuable as a crosscheck device and should be part of the conversation about quarterback draft prospects.

With that in mind, let's look at the projections for this year's quarterbacks. These numbers represent an estimate for passing DYAR in years 3-5 of a player's career. The top prospects will be above 1,200 DYAR, and you should avoid quarterbacks below zero. Let's start with the top two guys, two of the highest-rated quarterbacks in LCF history who will also be the first two picks in the 2012 NFL Draft.
Robert Griffin, Baylor: 2,530 DYAR

Important stats: 40 games started, 67.0% completion rate, senior passer rating rose 45.3 points, 161 carries for 644 yards.
Andrew Luck, Stanford: 1,749 DYAR

Important stats: 37 games started, 66.4% completion rate, senior passer rating dropped -0.5 points, 47 carries for 150 yards.

Robert Griffin comes out with the strongest LCF projection of any quarterback we've measured. Here are the top ten quarterbacks by LCF projection since 1998:



continues here .....http://www.footballoutsiders.com/nfl-draft/2012/lewin-career-forecast-2012

[TheGreek1973]

This is what people should read when they think Luck vs RGIII could be the same as Manning vs Leaf.

"One last note: The argument against "Luck and Griffin are about as close to can't miss as quarterback prospects can be" is not "well, people said the same thing about Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf." We know more now than we did then. Leaf started only 24 games and completed just 55.4 percent of his passes in college. His LCF projection is at -407. If Football Outsiders had been around in 1998, we would have been arguing that Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf weren't even in the same universe as prospects."

lets face it the Colts and us are about to get two very special talents at the most important position in football. but once again when you see a game like the one RGIII had against a top ranked team and you see Luck fail against Oregon, well I tend to think when the chips are down RGIII is a little more special.

[frommd]

It's important to understand that LCF is meant to be a tool used alongside the scouting reports, not instead of the scouting reports. What matters is not which quarterback is ahead of which other quarterback by 100 points. Instead, what's important is who has an overall good or bad projection. Scouts still come first and foremost, but this method is valuable as a crosscheck device and should be part of the conversation about quarterback draft prospects.I was reading this and getting even more excited about RGIII until I got to the end and saw Colt McCoy has and almost 300 point edge on Peyton Manning in the LCF. Shows it isn't always a perfect measure.

That said, I still think either one of the top two guys this year will make a great Redskin.

[TheGreek1973]

I was reading this and getting even more excited about RGIII until I got to the end and saw Colt McCoy has and almost 300 point edge on Peyton Manning in the LCF. Shows it isn't always a perfect measure.

That said, I still think either one of the top two guys this year will make a great Redskin.

I can't argue with your Colt McCoy statement then again the Browns has been the burial ground for any top pick..LOL. Also if you think about it Colt had a very average supporting crew last year. As far as I am concerned the jury is still out. if the Browns do some smart things in this draft (for me is get Richardson with the 4th pick and not Blackmon) pick help on the line and then second round pick the best WR available i think McCoy will be just fine. this is why I love what Allen did so far in FA, give GRIII a few good targets to throw the ball. RBs I think we are stellar, no a little help on RT and we are giving our young stud a very good chance to succeed. I mean would Cam have the type of rookie season if not for Steve Smith last year?

[mistertim]

I was reading this and getting even more excited about RGIII until I got to the end and saw Colt McCoy has and almost 300 point edge on Peyton Manning in the LCF. Shows it isn't always a perfect measure.

That said, I still think either one of the top two guys this year will make a great Redskin.

To be honest, FO's LCF is fun to read but doesn't seem to be particularly good at actually forecasting. Just look at the top guys there and who have better or even close to the same numbers as Peyton Manning. McCoy, Palmer, both better. Yes you have Rivers and Brees up there as well who are both great QBs. Then not too far behind Manning...Pennington, Quinn, Campbell. I remember reading an article by them about Campbell saying he was very likely to be a top NFL QB. In actuality they are close to a coin toss it seems, when it comes to their forecasts. Pin the tail on the prospect.


I think throwing the ball is a tie. But we got to put into the equation that RG3 is the better long ball passer. And in the NFL I think that alone will make him successful.

You can certainly make a case that Griffin has a slightly better deep ball than Luck, though Luck's is very good but he didn't really get much of a chance to use it this year since he essentially had zero deep threats on the outside and relied a ton on TEs and RBs to throw to.

The bolded part, however, is a ridiculous statement.

[mistertim]

deleted post

[GWinSkins83]

To be honest, FO's LCF is fun to read but doesn't seem to be particularly good at actually forecasting. Just look at the top guys there and who have better or even close to the same numbers as Peyton Manning. McCoy, Palmer, both better. Yes you have Rivers and Brees up there as well who are both great QBs. Then not too far behind Manning...Pennington, Quinn, Campbell. I remember reading an article by them about Campbell saying he was very likely to be a top NFL QB. In actuality they are close to a coin toss it seems, when it comes to their forecasts. Pin the tail on the prospect.



You can certainly make a case that Griffin has a slightly better deep ball than Luck, though Luck's is very good but he didn't really get much of a chance to use it this year since he essentially had zero deep threats on the outside and relied a ton on TEs and RBs to throw to.

The bolded part, however, is a ridiculous statement.

Thats not a ridiculous statement at all. Um its not about arms strength its his timing and accuracy on those long passes that I think will translate in the NFL.

[Chris21]

Anyone else read the colts forum and the comparisons between Luck and RG3? Mind blowing how much they devalue RG3.

[mistertim]

Thats not a ridiculous statement at all. Um its not about arms strength its his timing and accuracy on those long passes that I think will translate in the NFL.

There is a difference between saying his deep ball will "translate into the NFL" and saying "And in the NFL I think that alone will make him successful." The former statement is quite likely true as he does have very good accuracy and timing on his deep ball, the latter statement is not.


Anyone else read the colts forum and the comparisons between Luck and RG3? Mind blowing how much they devalue RG3.

Or perhaps ES overvalues him a bit? My guess is it is somewhere closer to the middle. They are devaluing Griffin somewhat and ES overvalues him somewhat.

[MR2Drift]

Colts said Luck is better on what grounds? Bill Polian said that for our system RG3 is a better fit, so I'll take that over their fans unless they make a compelling argument.

[Boss_Hogg]

I'll take RG3 with a side of more RG3.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Just happy in the knowledge that one of the two will be wearing Burgundy and Gold for hopefully a VERY long time from April 26th of this year.

Hail.

[BleedBNG]

Just happy in the knowledge that one of the two will be wearing Burgundy and Gold for hopefully a VERY long time from April 26th of this year.

Hail.

Same here. It's like waking up from a 20 year bad dream.

[Chris21]

Or perhaps ES overvalues him a bit? My guess is it is somewhere closer to the middle. They are devaluing Griffin somewhat and ES overvalues him somewhat.

Very true.

[mistertim]

Colts said Luck is better on what grounds?

If you're talking about their message board, it is a lot of the same things that various posters here on ES have brought up when the "Luck vs Griffin" debates have been going on. I'm sure you have seen plenty of posts that detail the thoughts behind it. I have made my points on it pretty recently in this very thread so I'm not going to repeat all of it for you (no offense intended).

[HBnotBlades]

I think skins fans are overvaluing RG3 in comparison to Luck.

Remember, Luck has already run a pro style offense and proven that he make the reads, decide, and make all the throws to excel at the next level. In addition, he was basically toe to toe with Cam Newton's numbers at the combine. While he doesn't have RG3's straight line speed, he is insanely athletic. There's a reason why he's been hyped for the last few years, he's really, really good.

I think Griffin's ceiling is higher (off the charts), but Luck is probably a better pick.

[Skinz4Life12]

i'm happy that we are a lock to get either. i think they are both going to be studs. but i almost hope the colts don't take RG3 b/c i think I'd rather have him on my team. just my .02

[mistertim]

i'm happy that we are a lock to get either. i think they are both going to be studs. but i almost hope the colts don't take RG3 b/c i think I'd rather have him on my team. just my .

Dude, no offense but we really don't want to hear about your period. :D

[MR2Drift]

If you're talking about their message board, it is a lot of the same things that various posters here on ES have brought up when the "Luck vs Griffin" debates have been going on. I'm sure you have seen plenty of posts that detail the thoughts behind it. I have made my points on it pretty recently in this very thread so I'm not going to repeat all of it for you (no offense intended).

I understand but for a group of people to think that RG3 shouldn't even be mentioned alongside Luck is foolish. To prefer one or the other is fine but you will need a strong argument to say one is without a doubt the better prospect, a argument that I have yet to hear.

[mistertim]

I understand but for a group of people to think that RG3 shouldn't even be mentioned alongside Luck is foolish. To prefer one or the other is fine but you will need a strong argument to say one is without a doubt the better prospect, a argument that I have yet to hear.

I don't recall people who prefer Luck over Griffin and express their views on it here saying that he shouldn't even be mentioned alongside Luck. As far as you asking for arguments I have already answered that. There have been multiple posts, by multiple members here (including, as I noted before, myself very recently), where they have explained why they would prefer Luck over Griffin if they had that choice.

I like Griffin very much as a prospect and will love to have him playing for the Skins but I would take Luck if given the choice. I have given my reasons quite a few times in quite a few threads. You can read them if you so wish. If you don't find them sufficient, then that's fine. If you want to respond point by point to a post I made explaining my preference for Luck and explain your reasons for disagreeing then I will be happy to invest in that conversation. However, if you just want to respond with stuff like "but he has such upside" or "his deep ball and athleticism are amazing" then it probably isn't something I want to get much more into with you. Again, no offense meant towards you at all. I've just seen too many of those types of back and forth conversations recently (or been involved in them).

[IS guhn RAIN]

I will be happy with either of them. I think Luck is more of a cant miss type of guy while rgIII has way more upside and could become one of the best ever.

I will say however, that the only thing that scares me about Luck is that he had Harbaugh as a coach at Stanford. While it is a positive that he learned from one of the best, it scares me because I see how much Alex Smith improved just in one season with Harbaugh. This makes me wonder, can Harbaugh make any QB look good? Is Luck that good of a prospect, or did Harbaugh make him look better than any other college coach could have? What if rgIII had Harbaugh teaching him?

I didnt see Luck improve too much this season compared to last season with Harbaugh, so it kind of scares me and im wondering if Luck will be as good as everyone thinks he will with any coach the colts ever have.

[mistertim]

I think Harbaugh certainly helped Luck in his growth as a QB but remember that this year, with Harbaugh gone and not there to guide him, Luck took on even more responsibility as far as calling protections, audibles, and his own plays at the LOS and was extremely successful at it. So no I don't think it is something that would worry me much.

[Charlied72]

They still ran the ball more then 55% of the time, there is a reason why luck was not asked to throw 60% of the time.

[GWinSkins83]

I mean Luck had it easy in college. Come on now he got a LT that is goin to be drafted in the first round. Also add to that line is an Elite RG that some considered an instant All PRO once he get to the league. I get that Luck called a lot of his plays and autibles. But he learnt tht in what 2 or 3 years? So it shouldn't be hard for RG3 to accomplish. And I tired of hearing people say Luck didn't have WRs to throw to. Give me a break and know they got some WRs tht can run 4.5. I haven't seen one WOW throw from is cutup unless its that one heeve when he was gettin sack. Other than that RG3 has been putting same stats Luck has been every year.

[mistertim]

I mean Luck had it easy in college. Come on now he got a LT that is goin to be drafted in the first round. Also add to that line is an Elite RG that some considered an instant All PRO once he get to the league.

Yes, Luck had a good line. His LT was a very good blindside protector. His RG is a monster who is going to be a pure road grater when he gets into the league; he will be incredibly effective in a rushing attack for someone (as he was for Stanford). However, I don't see how having a good line means Luck "had it easy" or in some way diminishes from what you see of him on film and his skills. He still got pressured plenty and had to feel it coming, he still had to move plenty in the pocket and outside of the pocket. It is a pretty big leap to go from stating that he had a very good line to saying that this fact "made it easy".



I get that Luck called a lot of his plays and autibles. But he learnt tht in what 2 or 3 years? So it shouldn't be hard for RG3 to accomplish.

I'm sure he learned more about reading defenses and calling his own audibles, protections, and then even plays over his time at Stanford. Thing is...how many college QBs do you see even attempt that, let alone do it with the level of success that he did?

Few college QBs do a lot of calling protections or major audibles (even those in more pro style systems), and its incredibly rare to see any literally calling their own plays from a large tree of them based on what they see from the defense at the LOS. Hell, that sort of stuff is rare for lots of NFL QBs. The mere fact that he already has the acumen and ability to not only do that, but to show a mastery of it is extremely impressive.

As far as Griffin, I have no idea if he can or will be expected to do that. I would guess that he can definitely learn to do more reading of the defenses, calling protections and audibles, etc since he is a very smart kid and a very hard worker. As of right now, we know that Luck can do that stuff. Griffin has great tools and big potential, but there are still questions marks he has which Luck does not, IMO.

Now you could go to the "high floor, high ceiling" sort of argument but as I have said before I don't buy into that. I simply see no reason to believe that Luck won't continue to get better and better just like Griffin. I think their ceilings are about the same, honestly. It's just that Luck has a head start and is more advanced in certain (important) aspects of the pro game at this point so I think that gives him the advantage as a prospect.



And I tired of hearing people say Luck didn't have WRs to throw to. Give me a break and know they got some WRs tht can run 4.5.

Yes he had a fast WR, Chris Owusu. But Owusu, as I stated before, was oft injured. Beyond that, he is a pretty mediocre wideout. Made some good plays here and there but was not much of a playmaker in general; projected to be maybe a late rounder (if even drafted). Beyond that, he really didn't have anyone outside to throw to. If you watched Stanford's games, you'll see how heavily they had to rely on their TEs and even RBs in the passing game. They really didn't have the guys to stretch the field often or scare defenses.


I haven't seen one WOW throw from is cutup unless its that one heeve when he was gettin sack. Other than that RG3 has been putting same stats Luck has been every year.

Stats, no not every year. But this year they were both excellent in that category. As far as the "WOW" stuff, I see that word used around here a lot. Yes, Griffin threw lots of pretty deep balls and did a lot of scrambling and I enjoy watching him play (as I've said many times I like him a lot as a prospect). Be that as it may...maybe I'm just boring, because if I don't just watch the ball fly through the air and instead concentrate on certain things when watching QBs and their cutups (footwork, head movement, rhythm, anticipation on throws, mechanics) I see plenty of "WOW' in Luck. I see things that impress the hell out of me. I see things that I see in some of the best NFL QBs in the business. It may not be flashy but that stuff is easily some of the most important at the next level. If you don't believe me just ask Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Brees. They have all preached it.

Was he as flashy as Griffin? Did he play in a big play fast strike offense with lots of deep balls like Griffin? No. Stanford played, because of scheme and their personnel, a much more ball control mid range passing attack offense. I can see on its face why it would lead to a more "boring" experience and then potentially concluding that the QB wasn't all that special or "WOW". But, again, it really depends on what you watch and look for.

[Baylor Alum]

It's probably not fair to point to a bad game as a representation of his overall ability. But in the game against Oregon (not a great defense) I see a lot of dinks and dunks, bad decisions, bad throws and throws behind receivers.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cRaBCb4xNg8

Again, I'm not saying that this one game is indicative of his overall package, but he is not infalliable.

[MR2Drift]

I don't recall people who prefer Luck over Griffin and express their views on it here saying that he shouldn't even be mentioned alongside Luck. As far as you asking for arguments I have already answered that. There have been multiple posts, by multiple members here (including, as I noted before, myself very recently), where they have explained why they would prefer Luck over Griffin if they had that choice.


I was referring to Chris's comment on the Colts forum devaluing RG3 not our members here. I agree with your assessment and have no issue with people preferring one over the other because there is some overlap between them and they both have their own positives. At the end of the day I'm just happy that we will have one of them because both guys have potential to be amazing.

On a side note when we were at #6 I watched every Tannehill and RG3 game, and I'm glad we dodged that bullet because there is a wide gap in skill there.

[mistertim]

It's probably not fair to point to a bad game as a representation of his overall ability. But in the game against Oregon (not a great defense) I see a lot of dinks and dunks, bad decisions, bad throws and throws behind receivers.

Again, I'm not saying that this one game is indicative of his overall package, but he is not infalliable.

Nobody is claiming he is infallible. And you're right, one game is definitely not a good measuring stick. Even the greatest college QBs (including the ones who went on to become some of the greatest NFL QBs) had off games. I remember watching that game and one thing I noticed, when they showed the view from Luck's perspective, is that Oregon's defense was very fast and were doing an excellent job of blanketing his TEs, who were his main targets all year which was many times giving him nowhere to go. Along with that they were doing a very good job of bringing pressure.

That doesn't mean that Luck isn't to blame for some of it. He didn't have a very good game. He made some bad mistakes and bad throws and some bad reads. He also held the ball a bit too long and stayed on his #1 target for too long (longer than usual at least). It happens. Again, I never claimed he was infallible or perfect and I don't think anyone else here who would take him over Griffin would say that either.

[Chris21]

I was referring to Chris's comment on the Colts forum devaluing RG3 not our members here. I agree with your assessment and have no issue with people preferring one over the other because there is some overlap between them and they both have their own positives. At the end of I day I'm just happy that we will have one of them because both guys have potential to be amazing.

On a side note when we were at #6 I watched every Tannehill and RG3 game, and I'm glad we dodged that bullet because there is a wide gap in skill there.

Sorry, I didn't mean to confuse things with that comment earlier. I have been following the Colts forum as well for a few months. It was pretty lopsided but RG3 has gained some momentum lately. Meanwhile, we are so lucky to get either of these guys. Personally, I was 100% on board for Luck but the more I read and study about RG3, the more I want him. I keep flip flopping.:cheers:

[Baylor Alum]

Nobody is claiming he is infallible. And you're right, one game is definitely not a good measuring stick. Even the greatest college QBs (including the ones who went on to become some of the greatest NFL QBs) had off games. I remember watching that game and one thing I noticed, when they showed the view from Luck's perspective, is that Oregon's defense was very fast and were doing an excellent job of blanketing his TEs, who were his main targets all year which was many times giving him nowhere to go. Along with that they were doing a very good job of bringing pressure.

That doesn't mean that Luck isn't to blame for some of it. He didn't have a very good game. He made some bad mistakes and bad throws and some bad reads. He also held the ball a bit too long and stayed on his #1 target for too long (longer than usual at least). It happens. Again, I never claimed he was infallible or perfect and I don't think anyone else here who would take him over Griffin would say that either.

I wasn't directing my comments at you. It was more of a response to the prevailing thought that Luck is more polished and pro ready than RG3. He might be, but I also see some flaws in his game. One reason Matt Leinart failed (so far) in the NFL is that he constantly checked down and threw to the safety valve. I see some of that in Luck too.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

I think Griffin can and will be a successful QB in the NFL. I'll be happy we got him. But there is a signifcant gap between Luck and Griffin. He may be able to close that gap with time, especially with the team Luck is going to have to play on the next few years. Luck may actually regress considering the beating he is about to start taking.

[ArmchairRedskin]

http://community.washingtonexaminer.com/redskins/?utm_source=Redskins%20Newsletter%2003-16-2012%20-%2003/16/2012&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Washington%20Examiner:%20Reskins%20Ne wsletter

Q&A With: Greg Cosell
Cosell watches as much game tape as anyone, save for coaches perhaps. And as the executive producer of “NFL Matchup,” and the senior producer of NFL Films for 33 years, he’s learned how to judge talent. He’s also the co-author of “The Games That Changed The Game.” And he’s a tough guy: He called back after seeing the doctor for a sinus infection. Follow him on Twitter @gregcosell.
By the way, though he listed Robert Griffin III as the top QB in the draft, he has Alabama RB Trent Richardson as the top player.

Q: You rated Robert Griffin III ahead of Andrew Luck as the top QB in the draft. Why?
A: Andrew Luck was not asked to do an awful lot in terms of throwing. I’m told he was asked to do a lot at the line, and he’s phenomenal in that area, but when you watch film it’s a lot of short, safe well-defined throws. I won’t say he’s not capable of making better throws, but when you watch tape of RG3 there’s a number of wow throws every game. I’m a believer in arm strength. I’m a believer in making difficult throws. I’m a believer in being able to drive the ball down the field. I think if you didn’t know who each guy was and you just put in tape you would say RG3 throws the ball better than Andrew Luck. Because I don’t know [what they were being asked to do], there might be people that tell me I’m a moron. I’ve been called a lot worse.

Q: Are you surprised you came to the conclusion you did?
A: I was surprised I didn’t see more big-time throws by Luck. Don’t take that out of context. I’m not saying he’s not capable of that. I think Luck can throw. But you don’t see it.

Q: When you watched RG3, what jumped out at you?
A: He throws a great deep ball. That jumps off the film. I would say what impressed me most is that for the most part he stayed in the pocket. I thought he was fairly patient. I heard what a great athlete he was and I guess maybe prejudicially I thought I’d see a guy who ran around a lot, and I didn’t see that. Did he do that on occasion? Yeah, but he may have been told to run around.

[Prototype]

I just think that whoever ends up at No. 2 is going to have the better career. Just a hunch. ;)

[Skinz4Life12]

I am really having doubts that the colts take luck. Everything I have been reading and seeing lately leads me to believe there is a good chance the colts take rg3

[SemperFISkins]

Honestly, I am concerned about a possible coup from fanatic Texans (the state not the team) in convincing RG3 to pull an Eli Manning and say "I will NOT play in Washington." I am sure the Redskins dotted their "I's" and crossed their "T's" about the possiblity of that scenario. But my God, can you imagine the effect of that happening? It would crush the fans, mess up the draft (either we choose another player or draft him anyway to trade), and throw this franchise into a tail-spin.

[Hitman21ST]

Honestly, I am concerned about a possible coup from fanatic Texans (the state not the team) in convincing RG3 to pull an Eli Manning and say "I will NOT play in Washington." I am sure the Redskins dotted their "I's" and crossed their "T's" about the possiblity of that scenario. But my God, can you imagine the effect of that happening? It would crush the fans, mess up the draft (either we choose another player or draft him anyway to trade), and throw this franchise into a tail-spin.

He wouldn't do that, guaranteed. If anything, him being drafted by the Skins will turn some into Skins fans. Read Baylor boards

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

Honestly, I am concerned about a possible coup from fanatic Texans (the state not the team) in convincing RG3 to pull an Eli Manning and say "I will NOT play in Washington." I am sure the Redskins dotted their "I's" and crossed their "T's" about the possiblity of that scenario. But my God, can you imagine the effect of that happening? It would crush the fans, mess up the draft (either we choose another player or draft him anyway to trade), and throw this franchise into a tail-spin.

That's silly, dude. I don't think he even loves Texas teams like that. The choice is Washington or Indy. And for a few reasons aside from coaching and talent (cultural fit) I think he works in Washington better than Indianapolis.

[Rudy165]

Personally, I hope as many articles as possible are written about him pulling an "Elway" or an "Eli." He seems like the kind of character guy who this would have the complete opposite effect on. If anything I would think it would make him want to be a Redskin even more.

[TheGreek1973]

Honestly, I am concerned about a possible coup from fanatic Texans (the state not the team) in convincing RG3 to pull an Eli Manning and say "I will NOT play in Washington." I am sure the Redskins dotted their "I's" and crossed their "T's" about the possiblity of that scenario. But my God, can you imagine the effect of that happening? It would crush the fans, mess up the draft (either we choose another player or draft him anyway to trade), and throw this franchise into a tail-spin.

The chance of that happening is as much as us picking Richardson with the 2nd pick. Dude relax, RGIII has ZERO reason to do this. Yea our skins have not been an elite power for a while now, but its a team with 3 SBs, are based in the most powerful area in the country, owner has tons of money and willing to spend it, I mean what other team out there in the top 6 even approaches our positives. The Browns? LMAO. And if all that doesn't do it for you he has stated he is a Denver fan. How cool would it be if you were a kid that the coach you grew up watching traded all those picks to get you? In other words how cool would it be if you could play for Gibbs?

[JoeKnowsBest]

It's St. Patrick's Day and I'm feeling the Luck!

[mistertim]

I am really having doubts that the colts take luck. Everything I have been reading and seeing lately leads me to believe there is a good chance the colts take rg3

Not exactly sure what you're referring to, here. What have you been reading that indicates Indy will take Griffin? Links? Everything I've seen or read says the opposite.

They will take Luck. I think Irsay actually has said "Andrew" when talking about their first pick.

[Chris21]

It's St. Patrick's Day and I'm feeling the Luck!
Lol. :cheers:

In all seriousness, I wonder who Shanny and Allen prefer. If we had the number 1 pick would they still take RG3?

[SkinsFanRob]

Personally I want RG3. I really think at this point if the Colts took him over Luck I would be heartbroken. The more video I watch on him and the more articles I read about him make me want RG3 in the burgundy and gold. The big play is something that has been lacking from the Redskins as long as I have been a fan. I feel like RG3 could potentially score from anywhere on the field at any time. The few plays that Brandon Banks came onto the field for last year were like lightning in a bottle. Imagine having that speed at quarterback on every down. I feel like RG3 will make the whole offense better. Obviously he would make the line appear better with his mobility and make the recievers look better by being able to extend the play if needed. I love the kids charisma, and cant imagine the energy he would infuse into the crowd at fedex every sunday. 6 months ago I would have been thrilled at the thought Luck, but I have fallen in love with the idea of RG3.

[Skinz4Life12]

Not exactly sure what you're referring to, here. What have you been reading that indicates Indy will take Griffin? Links? Everything I've seen or read says the opposite.

They will take Luck. I think Irsay actually has said "Andrew" when talking about their first pick.

Sorry, I should have been more specific.

I haven't read ANY articles saying the Colts take Luck, and that's what bothers me.

That coupled with the fact that a lot of analysts are saying they would rather have Griffin, and they think Griffin will be the better QB is leading me to believe the Colts are saying one thing and they will really wind up doing the opposite

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Sorry, I should have been more specific.

I haven't read ANY articles saying the Colts take Luck, and that's what bothers me.

That coupled with the fact that a lot of analysts are saying they would rather have Griffin, and they think Griffin will be the better QB is leading me to believe the Colts are saying one thing and they will really wind up doing the opposite

Don't let it bother you man.

If we end up with Andrew Luck, chances are your gona' be a VERY happy Redskin for the next decade or so.

Hail.

[Skinz4Life12]

Don't let it bother you man.

If we end up with Andrew Luck, chances are your gona' be a VERY happy Redskin for the next decade or so.

Hail.

I know I know...but I really think I'd be disappointed if we didn't get RG3 at this point. I know that sounds crazy, but there is something about that kid. He's a natural born leader and a winner...I want him leading my team badly

[SWFLSkins]

I am really having doubts that the colts take luck. Everything I have been reading and seeing lately leads me to believe there is a good chance the colts take rg3

Please provide what you have seen and read, it would be interesting. Thanks.

---------- Post added March-17th-2012 at 12:56 PM ----------


Sorry, I should have been more specific.

I haven't read ANY articles saying the Colts take Luck, and that's what bothers me.

That coupled with the fact that a lot of analysts are saying they would rather have Griffin, and they think Griffin will be the better QB is leading me to believe the Colts are saying one thing and they will really wind up doing the opposite


Yeah, more specific and correctly so. I have seen nothing of what the Colts will do, and either way outside of unforeseen natural disaster the Redskins are picking a bonafide QB.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I know I know...but I really think I'd be disappointed if we didn't get RG3 at this point. I know that sounds crazy, but there is something about that kid. He's a natural born leader and a winner...I want him leading my team badly

See, I'm the other way where I still crave Luck badly. But I'm safe in the knowledge we've got one or the other regardless, so whatever happens April 26th is pure gravy as they say.

Hail.

[SWFLSkins]

Honestly, I am concerned about a possible coup from fanatic Texans (the state not the team) in convincing RG3 to pull an Eli Manning and say "I will NOT play in Washington." I am sure the Redskins dotted their "I's" and crossed their "T's" about the possiblity of that scenario. But my God, can you imagine the effect of that happening? It would crush the fans, mess up the draft (either we choose another player or draft him anyway to trade), and throw this franchise into a tail-spin.

You don't think this was discussed with RG3 in the interview process? Or just the Redskins traded away all the picks just hoping RG3 would play here or Luck for that matter?

The FO would not do that deal if there were any hesitation by either about playing for the Redskins.

[mistertim]

See, I'm the other way where I still crave Luck badly. But I'm safe in the knowledge we've got one or the other regardless, so whatever happens April 26th is pure gravy as they say.

Hail.

This is pretty much my stance on the whole thing as well. Still would take Luck if I had the chance, but I also think Griffin is a tremendous prospects and will love to have him.

[stevemcqueen1]

I've seen a great deal of both, was probably on the "RGIII over Luck?" track before most back in week one...

But coming full circle before the draft, Luck is a better prospect than RGIII. He's well ahead of RGIII as a pocket passer.

That said, I like watching Griffin a lot more and I'm glad we're getting him and not Luck. There's something intoxicating about him.

And I know my GF doesn't speak for all lady fans, but I know she's a lot more excited about Griffin than about Luck because he's a handsome guy and Luck looks like a goober.

Anything that gets my GF to watch football with me without complaining is a good thing with tangible value in my book.

[Tuff]

I don't think there's any news in Coltsville about them perhaps taking RGIII first, but it would be a cool surprise.

[IrepDC]

I think both QBs will be great pros, but I prefer Griffin by far.

Why?

Griffin obviously has the advantage athletically, but one thing he doesn't get enough credit for is his clutchness. When his team needed him in big moments, he always seemed to rise to the occasion. The Kansas game with his team down huge in the 4th quarter, he takes over. Oklahoma game of course. And he does it with his arm. It's not like Vince Young in college rushing in the NC game. Griffin does it with his arm, and if you play off too much, yeah, he'll burn you running too. Having a QB that plays at his best in big moments will be a huge asset as we are elevating to a team that will hopefully be in a lot of big games.

[Long-Time-Fan]

I cant help but wonder......................

When has there ever been 2 successful Franchise QB's taken 1,2 in the Draft?

I cant seem to think of any.

What makes anyone think it's going to happen this year?

[terpskins10]

What makes anyone think it's going to happen this year?

Because what happened in the past has zero bearing on the evaluation of THESE two players.

[TheGreek1973]

I cant help but wonder......................

When has there ever been 2 successful Franchise QB's taken 1,2 in the Draft?

I cant seem to think of any.

What makes anyone think it's going to happen this year?

In the 1983 NFL draft, six quarterbacks were taken in the first round. Of these quarterbacks, four played in the Super Bowl, four were selected to play in the Pro Bowl, and three have been inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame, Elway, Marino, Kelly.

[HogNose]

I cant help but wonder......................

When has there ever been 2 successful Franchise QB's taken 1,2 in the Draft?

I cant seem to think of any.



In '71 Plunkett, Manning, and Pastorini when 1, 2, 3. All three had solid careers, with Manning surviving behind a bad OL for years. Of course they didn't have the success that the 1983 QB's had, but they were the only back to back QB's with NFL longevity.

Speaking of Pastorini, I'll never understand why Houston shipped Pastorini off to Oakland for Stabler, especially after that great '79 season. That was the year Houston was robbed of a SB birth. Instant replay would have saved them.

[NewCliche21]

Because what happened in the past has zero bearing on the evaluation of THESE two players.

Don't be stupid. I flipped a coin ten times and all ten times it landed heads, so obviously every other time it will land heads regardless of the independence of each experiment, right?

I hate these ridiculous, "What coach has ever won the Super Bowl with two different teams?" and "What makes anyone think that two good quarterbacks will be taken back-to-back this year?"

The important questions:

1) There has never been a quarterback who is the third in his family with that name who has won the Super Bowl. What makes you think that it'll happen this year? Don't take him.

2) There has never been a quarterback with dreads who has won the Super Bowl. What makes you think that it'll happen this year? Don't take him.

3) There has never been a quarterback taken in the year that the world is going to end. What makes you think that it'll happen this year? Don't take him.

[Chris21]

Do you think we will have a better idea of who the Colts are going to take after next weeks pro days?

[mistertim]

Do you think we will have a better idea of who the Colts are going to take after next weeks pro days?

The Colts will be taking Luck. The possibilities otherwise are extremely remote.

[Baylor Alum]

I love the "long time personnel man" who isn't confident enough in his opinion to allow his name to be mentioned. And what does it mean to be a "personnel man?" Is he a scout or the HR guy who processes benefits and sexual harassment claims?

http://www.nj.com/times-sports/index.ssf/2012/03/looking_at_qbs_for_the_draft_l.html

[stevemcqueen1]

They still ran the ball more then 55% of the time, there is a reason why luck was not asked to throw 60% of the time.

His offensive system.

---------- Post added March-20th-2012 at 11:37 AM ----------


I love the "long time personnel man" who isn't confident enough in his opinion to allow his name to be mentioned. And what does it mean to be a "personnel man?" Is he a scout or the HR guy who processes benefits and sexual harassment claims?

http://www.nj.com/times-sports/index.ssf/2012/03/looking_at_qbs_for_the_draft_l.html

He's probably a no name, that's why. The man sounds like an idiot and his reasoning seems incredibly facile and uninformed.

[mistertim]

I think both QBs will be great pros, but I prefer Griffin by far.

Why?

Griffin obviously has the advantage athletically, but one thing he doesn't get enough credit for is his clutchness. When his team needed him in big moments, he always seemed to rise to the occasion. The Kansas game with his team down huge in the 4th quarter, he takes over. Oklahoma game of course. And he does it with his arm. It's not like Vince Young in college rushing in the NC game. Griffin does it with his arm, and if you play off too much, yeah, he'll burn you running too. Having a QB that plays at his best in big moments will be a huge asset as we are elevating to a team that will hopefully be in a lot of big games.

I agree with your general sentiment of Griffin being "clutch" in many cases, however you definitely cannot count Luck out as far as being "clutch". There were plenty of times where he had to put the team on his shoulders late in the game and drive them downfield to score. A couple off the top of my head would be USC as well as the bowl game vs OSU Granted, they lost that bowl game in OT but that had nothing to do with Luck. OSU would score (well...Justin Blackmon would score) and Luck would drive his team back downfield to get them back in the game which he did multiple times. Not really his fault his FG kicker couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. So I think Luck is every bit as clutch as Griffin.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

Luck's athleticism is much closer to Griffin's than people think. His measureables at the combine were on par with Cam Newton's. Who until Griffin, was the new standard bearer for athleticism in a QB.

[IrepDC]

I agree with your general sentiment of Griffin being "clutch" in many cases, however you definitely cannot count Luck out as far as being "clutch". There were plenty of times where he had to put the team on his shoulders late in the game and drive them downfield to score. A couple off the top of my head would be USC as well as the bowl game vs OSU Granted, they lost that bowl game in OT but that had nothing to do with Luck. OSU would score (well...Justin Blackmon would score) and Luck would drive his team back downfield to get them back in the game which he did multiple times. Not really his fault his FG kicker couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. So I think Luck is every bit as clutch as Griffin.

Yeah Luck played well in those big game situations, but I'm saying Griffin played better. For example, Griffin could have left it to his kicker in the Oklahoma game as they were just outside of FG range. Instead, he leaves the kicker on the sideline and wins the game himself. That's not in ANY way a shot at Luck, because I have seen him do some amazing things manipulating defenses and taking advantage. I'm just giving an example of why some, including myself, would prefer Griffin.

People always assume when I tell them that I prefer Griffin, that I don't think Luck will be great. I always tell then, "No, Luck will be a beast! I just believe Griffin will be better." Especially in our offense. I see Luck running our offense very efficiently and taking advantage of any mental mistakes made by defenders. He is very cerebral on the field. I see Griffin running our offense in a much more aggressive manner, though, wearing down defenders physically and mentally. He has the perfect combination of horizontal threat and vertical threat to put pressure on the defense to cover the entire field. And in my opinion, he has the capacity to become more cerebral in our offense, compared to the offense he ran in college, so that he can manipulate defenses similar to Luck(doesn't have to be on the same level). That's why I have Griffin ahead.

[Bobby S]

Gotta go with RGIII!

[hunterx]

It's fun to talk about both, but we end up with whoever the Colts don't pick. I've been hyping up RG3 for myself, but I am leaving the door open for Luck.

[IrepDC]

ESPN comparison of the two. Griffin got the advantage for accuracy, arm strength, touch. Luck got the advantage for decision making. It was a push for overall athleticism. Said Griffin should go #1 overall.

[Chris21]

ESPN comparison of the two. Griffin got the advantage for accuracy, arm strength, touch. Luck got the advantage for decision making. It was a push for overall athleticism. Said Griffin should go #1 overall.

I saw that as well. I have to agree as well. I believe Grigson and Pagano will want RG3 but Irsay will not allow it.

[redskinsfanjm30]

I think it's a toss up for the most part. However, I believe that the Redskins are the perfect fit for RGIII. Also, I believe that we have more talent then the Colts, which is more important in the long term success of both prospects.

If I was RGIII or Luck, I would not want to go to the Colts.