Why didn't we resign Trent Green after the 1998 season?

[Arian's Foster Child]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/news/1999/02/15/rams_green/

"Green, 29, is a St. Louis native who started 1998 as an unknown third-stringer for Washington, but ended up starting 14 games. He completed 278 of 509 passes for 3,441 yards and 23 touchdowns. The Redskins struggled in the first half of the season, but went 6-3 over the final nine weeks to finish 7-9."

In the free agency period after the 1998 season, The Redskins low balled an offer to Green and he signed with St. Louis. We then traded a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd pick to the Vikings for Brad Johnson.

The Vikes got a ’99 No. 1 (QB Daunte Culpepper), 2000 No. 2 (DT Michael Boireau) and ’99 No. 3 (which they used to trade up in the second round and take TE Jim Kleinsasser, hidden star of the Adam Sandler movie, “50 First Dates”).

Yes we got one pro bowl season out of Brad Johnson but Trent Green could have been our QB for most of the early 2000's when we had to deal with George, Banks, all of Spurrier's Florida Idiots, Ramsey, etc.. Trent went onto Kansas City and threw 4,000+ yards 3 seasons in a row and retired with an 86 career QB rating.

It's just crazy to think we had a franchise QB and we just let him walk away. Not too mention we were forced to give up 3 picks for Brad. I'm also very confused at why this happened. Can someone who was older than 10 years old in 1998 enlighten me on how our front office at the time was so cheap and idiotic?

[Rdskns2000]

We were for sale. The uncertainty of the ownership issue ****ed up our 1999 offseason, though ironically we did make the playoffs for the only time in Norv's tenure.

---------- Post added March-20th-2012 at 02:01 AM ----------

Actually, we finally got revenge for that. The trustees decide to sell the Skins then, when they saw how much the expansion Browns could go for. Well, we finally got revenge on the Browns but outbidding them for RG3.

---------- Post added March-20th-2012 at 02:03 AM ----------

I can't remember if Charlie Casserly couldn't do anything for a while, while the team's status was uncertain? I remember the Tags had to be involved.

---------- Post added March-20th-2012 at 02:04 AM ----------

If the issue had been settled, Mike Holmgren probably would've been the Skins coach, instead of him going to Seattle.

[bedlamVR]

The NFL screwed the team by dragging out the sale of the team so that when free agency hit the ownership was still being discussed with the Milsteins bid . Therefore no one knew what direction the franchise wanted to go . The free agency period and the draft was left up to Charley Casserly who was in the Cookes camp and essentially doing the bidding of the Cooke estate trust fund .

I have no idea why they did not value Green but they didn't but it is an excellent reminder of just how badly missmanaged the team was prior to Snyder even joining the team .

[Bacon]

We actually had a couple of decent QBs on our hands there, better than Campbell or Grossman. Awful coaching and FO management screwed us for years to come, and they were among the early casualties.

Ramsey inherited the same crap, plus Rod Gardner.

[TheREALJBird]

Yea I wish we had held onto Trent Green, I liked what I saw in him during his short stint here.

[Smooters]

We actually had a couple of decent QBs on our hands there, better than Campbell or Grossman. Awful coaching and FO management screwed us for years to come, and they were among the early casualties.

Ramsey inherited the same crap, plus Rod Gardner.

I agree 100% about Ramsey and Gardner.

[RansomthePasserby]

I honestly feel sorry for Ramsey. He seemed like a great guy who got screwed by being on the wrong team at the wrong time.

[laurent]

Couldn't find the original article from the Times Dispatch online, so I'm posting this from the extremeskins archives RIP bubba!



Green reflects on wonder years
Shuler, Frerotte, Hostetler took snaps ahead of him as a Skin
BY PAUL WOODY
TIMES-DISPATCH STAFF WRITER
Sunday, October 16, 2005



Where would they be now, the Washington Redskins, if Trent Green still was their quarterback?

What would Green have done had he remained in Washington? Would he and the Redskins have gone to the Super Bowl? Would he have brought stability to the position and franchise for eight seasons?

"I do think about that," said Green, the quarterback for the Kansas City Chiefs.

But the Redskins let Green get away in free agency, when it would have been easy to keep him.

All this comes forward now because, Green and the Chiefs face the Redskins today in Kansas City.

Green became the Redskins' starter during the dismal season of 1998, when the team began 0-7. Green started 14 games that year, and the team was 6-3 in his final nine starts. He threw 16 touchdown passes and only four interceptions in that span.

Green was set to become a free agent after that season, and under normal circumstances, the Red- skins would have wrapped him up before the 1998 season ended.

But things were far from normal in the front office. Team owner Jack Kent Cooke had died in 1997, and the team was under the direction of the trustees of his estate.

Those directors were hesitant to make a large contract commitment to Green when a new owner seemed to be on the horizon.

"The first offer they gave me was on the eve of free agency," Green said. "And it wasn't earth-shattering for me not to wait those few hours to find out what was out there.

"I wanted to stay. Had they offered me that deal a month prior or two months prior, I might have taken it because you're talking about somebody who hadn't made much more than the minimum my entire five years in the league."

Green, however, has gotten the maximum out of his talent and ability. He has thrown for 19,045 yards, 113 touchdowns and 74 interceptions since leaving Washington.

He left the Redskins for the St. Louis Rams, a lucrative contract and the chance to play in his hometown. Instead, a serious knee injury suffered in the preseason sidelined Green. And while he was out, the legend of Kurt Warner was born.

When Green came back, the Rams had a Super Bowl championship and Warner was entrenched as the starter.

Green was traded to Kansas City in 2001, and today he will start his 68th consecutive game for the Chiefs.

Green, 6-3 and 217, is in Kansas City because the coach who wanted him in St. Louis, Dick Vermeil, now is the coach of the Chiefs.

"In many ways, he has exceeded my expectations," Vermeil said. "He's extremely accurate. He's totally aware of what's going on. He can handle a huge volume of offense, and he can handle adjustments made from quarter to quarter or series to series.

"Nothing rattles him. He takes tremendous care of himself. He's a family guy. He's the kind of guy coaches love."

Green, 35, has been around. He did not attempt his first NFL pass until his fourth season in the league. He did not start his first game until his fifth season in the league.

Green even spent the 1994 season out of football after being cut by San Diego.

Why, people wonder, did it take so long for someone to recognize that he was better than the quarterbacks ahead of him in Washington, Heath Shuler, Gus Frerotte and Jeff Hostetler?

"That's just the way the system works," Green said. "When you're a lower-round guy, or in my case with the Redskins, a street free agent, your opportunities don't come as often as a high draft choice or a free agent they bring in.

"I've always tried to look for the positives. I'm proud of having overcome so many things, of hanging in there in the early years and of being able to play at a consistently high level."

And there probably have been times when the Redskins wish they could be proud of their foresight for keeping Green.


Contact Paul Woody at (804) 649-6444 or pwoody@timesdispatch.com

[expensivegift]

My first and last Redskins jersey was Brad Johnson's. That offense was the only good offense we had in DC in the last 20 years!

[Operations]

My first and last Redskins jersey was Brad Johnson's. That offense was the only good offense we had in DC in the last 20 years!

Johnson was good for only the 1st half of the 1999 season, when he was fantastic. He faded badly toward the end of the season and in the playoffs. We gave up almost as much for him as we just gave up for RGIII!

[Rabsuz]

My first and last Redskins jersey was Brad Johnson's. That offense was the only good offense we had in DC in the last 20 years!

Prepare for that to change this season

HTTR

[mojo]

Trent can't complain...if I remember correctly, he was either out of football or in the CFL until Norv held a workout for him and signed him as a project player. Sad part is that he was better than everyone ahead of him.

---------- Post added March-20th-2012 at 08:11 AM ----------

I agree..what happened, did he get injured? Brad's first 4 games as a Redskin were perhaps the 4 best consecutive games I can remember a QB playing..period.

[Redskindon2]

From what I remember, we sold Ttrent Green to the Rams for 1 million dollars. Norv Turner was upset because he knew he had a good QB with Green and the management let him go for virtually nothing. I never understood why they let him go, but that's the past and now we're getting RGIII.....HTTR

[prsnljournalst3]

we should have signed kurt warner

[SkinsHokieFan]

That was the first in many dominos which eff'd up the 2000s for us.

Green stays we have 3 more picks with which to build. You could have potentially had a draft class in 1999 of Champ/Javon Kearse/Jon Jansen and had extra picks going forward, along with a franchise QB in Green that Norv trusted.

If fate swings the right way there the early part of the Dan Snyder era could be looked upon in a much more favorable light, and considering the general weakness of the NFL 1999-2002, a real shot at being a Superbowl contender those 4 years

[gortiz]

I would not dwell on this ... too much.

I love playing the "what if" game with Trent, but let's all be honest.

Dan was an out of control mindless pit bull those early years ... I have no doubt in my mind that if we kept Green him and Vinny would have found away to screw it up, ala Brad Johnson/Jeff George.

If anything, this went away quielty and is one less embarrassment to our team.

:(

[MontanaSkins]

It has been established earlier in the thread that Snyder was not yet owner when Green was let go.

[The Full Monty]

I still remember when Trent Green went in for the first time, Frerrotte was playing so badly, and Marcvus Patton was screaming at him on the sideline (yup, Norv really ran a tight ship), and Green went in and played shockingly well (since we'd seen so little of him up to that point), was the game against the Eagles or the Giants? I seem to recall it as a divisional game.

Anyways, we had a chance to win at the end but we had a penalty and the refs let the clock run out. We were on our way to 0-7 from there but somehow made it to 6-10, including a win over a young Bucs team with Sapp Brooks and Lynch in their prime, that was part of a 4 game win streak I believe...and it ended with a loss to Dallas (of course) in the season finale.

[authentic]

I remember all of Trent's games and was sick to my stomach when we let him go... I still think about it to this day.. I liked Brad Johnson, but i really wanted Trent to work out. It made no sense to me..

[morpheusmeyers]

I still remember when Trent Green went in for the first time, Frerrotte was playing so badly, and Marcvus Patton was screaming at him on the sideline (yup, Norv really ran a tight ship), and Green went in and played shockingly well (since we'd seen so little of him up to that point), was the game against the Eagles or the Giants? I seem to recall it as a divisional game.

Anyways, we had a chance to win at the end but we had a penalty and the refs let the clock run out. We were on our way to 0-7 from there but somehow made it to 6-10, including a win over a young Bucs team with Sapp Brooks and Lynch in their prime, that was part of a 4 game win streak I believe...and it ended with a loss to Dallas (of course) in the season finale.

If it's the game I am thinking of I was there. Season opener at Giants. Frerrote got rocked and Trent came in and we almost came back and won. Was hot that day. Quite a few empty seats because it was Labor Day weekend. I went there with a group of friends and we had no problem scalping 6 tickets in the parking lot for just under face.

As another posted said, Green left DC because of the ownership uncertainty. It's a shame he didn't stick around for a few more years. He was good.

[authentic]

I still remember when Trent Green went in for the first time, Frerrotte was playing so badly, and Marcvus Patton was screaming at him on the sideline (yup, Norv really ran a tight ship), and Green went in and played shockingly well (since we'd seen so little of him up to that point), was the game against the Eagles or the Giants? I seem to recall it as a divisional game.

.


It was against the Giants, 1st game of the season.. and started the remainder of the year..

[HeluCopter29]

I remember campaigning to have him come back to Washington the 2006-2007 off-season. He was a good QB and would have been at least helpful with Campbell on the roster.

[Chachie]

No offense intended to the OP, but really? Really?

[bentskin]

The other major contributor to Green going to the Rams was the mad scientist, Mike Martz. Remember, he was the Skins' QB coach that year and when the Rams hired him to be OC HE was the catalyst for Green to St. Louis. I'm sure it didn't hurt that Green was going home and the Skins low balled him but it is not like he was a highly sought after FA at the time. People were not picking the Rams to go to the Superbowl because they just signed Trent Green.
The Skins gambled with their offer thinking no one else would be after him and lost. For the record, I would have liked to see him stay. I still think about the draft picks given for Johnson (which, at the time, I thought was a good move). Not that Culpepper had a hall of fame career but we could have drafted him with that 1st rounder and still had a 2nd and 3rd rounder to build with not to mention the trade with the Saints for our #4 pick. Or if your sold on Green then you use that 1st and all the other picks to build around him.
Things could have been so different. But we are here today with the hope that things are turning around now. I think we are in good hands with Allen and Shanahan.

HTTR

[planter]

My recollection: Greene publicly stated that he was not to going to prove himself to a new Skins FO when there were folks who already believed in him. Was it KC?

[Bang]

My recollection: Greene publicly stated that he was not to going to prove himself to a new Skins FO when there were folks who already believed in him. Was it KC?

It was St Louis.
There wasn't anyone for him to negotiate with. The team was up for sale.

~Bang

[MWCREDSKINS]

It was the front office mess that was the main reason but the better question is why was Snyder so obsessed with Jeff George that he alienated Brad Johnson to the point that he had no interest in returning here. I still would've love to seen Johnson under Marty in 2001. He won 8 games with Tony Banks, he probably could've won 10 with Brad

[isle-hawg]

As I recall it the FO (with John Cooke serving as acting owner) DID want to re-sign him and made him a good offer that was disallowed by the trustees for the Cooke estate until after the team was sold. Green did not want to wait around for the deal to settle as it dragged on for an extended period of time.

For those too young to remember first hand John Cooke wanted to purchase his father's team (and re-sign Green) but had to come up with his OWN cash to do so as per his father's will (his Dad left the team to the highest bidder in his will) John was outbid and lacked the resources to match the first bid that was eventually disapproved by the owners which resulted in restarting the process which dragged on through most of the off-season. Obviously we wound up with DS as the high bidder but the FA season was effectively over by the time this happened and Green was already signed by the Rams. There was nothing the FO could of done to prevent this unless I am missing something???

[33]

This was actually Casserly at his best. He was hamstrung and unable to offer Green a competitive contract, yet still found a way to net a stud QB by trading for Brad Johnson (without sacrificing the future). Turns around and trades our 1st round pick for the Saints draft and get Champ in the 1st and Jansen in the 2nd. We went into the next season with 3 first round picks thanks to the Ricky Williams trade and Sean Gilbert to the Panthers.

Then Vinny. We get Chris Samuels with the #2 pick and go on to waste 10 years of having stable bookend tackles.

[-JB-]

Who cares?? We gonna get RGIII BABY!!

[cphil006]

He chose to not re-sign with us because we were going through an ownership change and there was too much uncertainty. He said this in an interview. He ends up getting hurt and Kurt Warner comes in and...

If JKC would have left the team to his son... Casserly would have remained GM, Norv would have been fired earlier and we never would ahve had a Vinny Cerrato.

[SkinsTight]

why didnt we resign stan humphrey?

[ChiefPowhatan17]

Brad Johnson got the starting gig, so he was shipped away.

[Highway66]

A good question. Here are two better questions.. How long was Green backing up Guss Frerrotte? and why or how could they not know Green was better than Frerrote or Hostetler and whoever else was here then.

---------- Post added March-21st-2012 at 08:01 PM ----------

He was here in 1995 1996 1997 and 1998.... Heath Shuiler Gus Frerrotte Jeff Hostetler

[MarkB452]

why didnt we resign stan humphrey?
>> Gibbs did not like his work ethic. After Stan took the Chargers to the SuperBowl, Gibbs admitted he was wrong.

[Jumbo]

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s107/jumboskins/wabac.jpg

[bedlamVR]

This was actually Casserly at his best. He was hamstrung and unable to offer Green a competitive contract, yet still found a way to net a stud QB by trading for Brad Johnson (without sacrificing the future). Turns around and trades our 1st round pick for the Saints draft and get Champ in the 1st and Jansen in the 2nd. We went into the next season with 3 first round picks thanks to the Ricky Williams trade and Sean Gilbert to the Panthers.

Then Vinny. We get Chris Samuels with the #2 pick and go on to waste 10 years of having stable bookend tackles.

You have got to be kidding me unless you are being sarcastic Charlie C was a disaster in 1999 . He was close with the Cookes and acting on their behalf and low balled Trent Green offering him $12 million over 4 years, he eventually signed for $17.5 million with the Rams two days after the Skins told him that was their final offer . Then he panicked and 4 days later traded three draft picks (not trading away our future my ass ...) including the 11th overall pick in 1999, their 3rd round pick in 1999 and and second rounder in 2000 . In 1999 we would have picked No 5 and No 11 overall .

The reason we had 2 first round picks is because Charlie C earlier in 1996 traded for the rams dominating DL Sean Gilbert, giving up a 1st round pick (no 6 overall) in the process . He had made the pro-bowl that season as an alternate and then the Skins and the Gilbert were about 2 million apart on contract demands and so the Skins made him a their franchise player but instead of signing the offer Gilbert sat out the season . Roll around to 1998 and the Skins and Gilbert still could not come to an agreement so we intended to put the franchise tag on him again (despite him not playing for a year) and he baulked again and took the team and the NFL to arbitration . Eventually the Panthers came in to save us and ponied up 2 first round picks and took the unhappy Gilbert off our hands ... which was a disaster for them as he essentially underperformed in a highly predictable way.

Then in the build up to the draft Mike Ditka went crazy and fell in love with Ricky Williams and was willing to give up nearly 2 full drafts we talked him out of that but still managed to get a boat load of picks for our 5th overall pick ... we then gave up a whole bunch of those picks to the Bears to move up and nab Champ Bailey who was an exceptional player and Jon Jansen ... but that was all we walked away with in 1999 . In fact we only ended up with 3 other players none of whom made an impact of any kind with the franchise from that draft.

Because of the Saints and the Panthers crazyness we ended up with 3 1st round picks in 2000 which Cerratto converted into 2 first round picks for Samuels and Arrington - though we did manage to avoid the massive busts that were Courtney Brown and Peter Warrick ....we then went onto nearly 10 years of Cerratto-Snyder madness .... but compare it to what happened with the Cookes and Casserly over the 1990s after Gibbs left things actually got better ....as odd as that sounds ....

[panel]

You have got to be kidding me unless you are being sarcastic Charlie C was a disaster in 1999 . He was close with the Cookes and acting on their behalf and low balled Trent Green offering him $12 million over 4 years, he eventually signed for $17.5 million with the Rams two days after the Skins told him that was their final offer . Then he panicked and 4 days later traded three draft picks (not trading away our future my ass ...) including the 11th overall pick in 1999, their 3rd round pick in 1999 and and second rounder in 2000 . In 1999 we would have picked No 5 and No 11 overall .

The reason we had 2 first round picks is because Charlie C earlier in 1996 traded for the rams dominating DL Sean Gilbert, giving up a 1st round pick (no 6 overall) in the process . He had made the pro-bowl that season as an alternate and then the Skins and the Gilbert were about 2 million apart on contract demands and so the Skins made him a their franchise player but instead of signing the offer Gilbert sat out the season . Roll around to 1998 and the Skins and Gilbert still could not come to an agreement so we intended to put the franchise tag on him again (despite him not playing for a year) and he baulked again and took the team and the NFL to arbitration . Eventually the Panthers came in to save us and ponied up 2 first round picks and took the unhappy Gilbert off our hands ... which was a disaster for them as he essentially underperformed in a highly predictable way.

Then in the build up to the draft Mike Ditka went crazy and fell in love with Ricky Williams and was willing to give up nearly 2 full drafts we talked him out of that but still managed to get a boat load of picks for our 5th overall pick ... we then gave up a whole bunch of those picks to the Bears to move up and nab Champ Bailey who was an exceptional player and Jon Jansen ... but that was all we walked away with in 1999 . In fact we only ended up with 3 other players none of whom made an impact of any kind with the franchise from that draft.

Because of the Saints and the Panthers crazyness we ended up with 3 1st round picks in 2000 which Cerratto converted into 2 first round picks for Samuels and Arrington - though we did manage to avoid the massive busts that were Courtney Brown and Peter Warrick ....we then went onto nearly 10 years of Cerratto-Snyder madness .... but compare it to what happened with the Cookes and Casserly over the 1990s after Gibbs left things actually got better ....as odd as that sounds ....
I think 33 was saying that Casserly did a good job, but Vinnie did not

[Darrell Green Fan]

I would not dwell on this ... too much.

I love playing the "what if" game with Trent, but let's all be honest.

Dan was an out of control mindless pit bull those early years ... I have no doubt in my mind that if we kept Green him and Vinny would have found away to screw it up, ala Brad Johnson/Jeff George.

If anything, this went away quielty and is one less embarrassment to our team.

:(


While I can see this sentiment, I believe that had the NFL not screwed around, or more specifically if we didn't have an even bigger A-hole than Snyder in Milstein trying to buy the team, Green probably would have been signed and there would have been no reason to trade for Brad Johnson. I've been saying of a decade that letting Green go was the biggest factor in the Redskins' losing than anything else.

[Son of Gadsden]

"started as a third stringer"

That doesn't seem physically possible.

[justice98]

I honestly feel sorry for Ramsey. He seemed like a great guy who got screwed by being on the wrong team at the wrong time.

I totally agree. I've always thought Ramsey got a raw deal and could've been better than he turned out to be. Even still, more TDs than INTs in his career. And frankly, I don't get why he's not on a roster given some of the backup QBs out there. I mean, Drew Stanton, John Beck, Caleb Hanie, the list goes on and on? lol And if Rex Grossman can still be in the league, Patrick Ramsey should too. lol

And I knew he'd bounced around a little, but I didn't realize he'd been on 9 teams. Now THAT'S a journeyman QB. lol

[2cents]

why didnt we resign stan humphrey?
>> Gibbs did not like his work ethic. After Stan took the Chargers to the SuperBowl, Gibbs admitted he was wrong.

And Humphries admitted that Gibbs was right and the trade gave him the kick in the butt he needed.