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Pride
October-9th-2012, 09:18 PM
My first post on these forums, I've watched for many years and my boss convinced me to create an account. I looked at the rules and did a search. I see many individual people asking for legal advice but no "The Legal Advice" thread so I hope its ok I post this.. Kind of a off first thread but I've witness this community be very helpful with each other so I figure what the hell?

I’m dealing with this really out there client. She came to me to do some basic computer training. No problem easy.. We had to move on this quickly or we’d miss some opportunities so I started doing training two weeks ago without a signed contractin place.. Let me be clear that there are no emails, or verbal conversations that say “I will train these people without a contract”.. The other party I’m dealing with just assumed I would and scheduled them up, then let me know. Of course I'm not going to shine the opp so I just started training them.

In any event she begins to try to dictate terms to me. Fine whatever, so I beat her to the punch and send her a standard service agreement. She takes that as her queue to have her lawyer add all these crazy things to it..For instance… She’d own any intellectual property, inventions, documents etc that I create in regards to the training, also any employees that my company hires has to be approved by her and have to be W2 employees. I have to have a particular amount of business insurance.. I have to provide her with my software licenses(which is against many companies TOS like Microsoft), and I’m not allowed to market, sell or provide my services to anyone else. I politely let her know that typically someone doesn't seek out a service provider and then start dictating terms to them beyond the standard confidential agreement sort of thing. I related her contract to someone calling up papa johns to order a pizza under the condition that you own the recipe, the delivery truck, inquire about the drivers insurance and inform them they can’t sell pizza to anyone but you, PJ's would laugh at you if they didn't outright hang up on you. Anyway[/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT]

So obviously I tell her I won’t do business under those conditions.I resend my service agreement and let her know that my terms are nonnegotiable. She either agrees to them or finds someone else to do her training.Well I’m into the second of four weeks of training.. I want to tell her “I will not be able to continue services if the service agreement is not signed by10/12/2012”

I have a feeling this lady is going to drag her feet the remaining two weeks of the training and then tell me to F off. Which is fine, I have plenty of emails discussing my compensation that it would be difficult for her to stiff me. My concern is for the welfare of my company continuing on any longer without the protection of an agreement.

Any help would be greatly appreciated =)

Pride
October-9th-2012, 09:22 PM
Get a lawyer

Oh I have one, he's just out of town and I haven't been able to reach him and this literally came up yesterday and I wanted to get opinions on it asap =)

AsburySkinsFan
October-9th-2012, 09:23 PM
Get a lawyer

Pride
October-9th-2012, 09:24 PM
Get a lawyer

Oh I have one, he's just out of town and I haven't been able to reach him and this literally came up yesterday and I wanted to get opinions on it asap =)

chipwhich
October-9th-2012, 09:25 PM
The best legal advice anyone on this board will be is to hire a lawyer.

Training without an agreement was your mistake. If she doesn't pay you, you can pay a lawyer to go after your money. In the end you wont be better off financially.

Bang
October-9th-2012, 09:30 PM
Have her dog killed.

~Bang

Stugein
October-9th-2012, 09:36 PM
Have her dog killed.

~Bang

Bang: Solutions Guy

Pride
October-9th-2012, 09:36 PM
Well I've actually met her dog, it's an awesome lab, I just couldn't do it!

No_Pressure
October-9th-2012, 09:46 PM
Papa Johns again- you call in an order: 2 large cheese pizzas. They get your phone number and tell you the price. You don't have a written and signed contract that says you're going to pay for those pizzas. If the delivery guy shows up and hands you the pizzas and you slam the door in his face and start digging in you don't get those pizzas for free just because you didn't sign a contract saying you would pay for them. Intent to pay is important. Calling up a pizza place and placing an order shows intent to pay. Having somebody provide their professional training services whether you have a written contract in place or not shows intent to pay for them. Get a lawyer and be careful with the types of people you deal with because that woman is a nutjob.

Kilmer17
October-9th-2012, 09:55 PM
One word-

Gillooly!

Pride
October-9th-2012, 10:02 PM
one word-

gillooly!

lmao!!!

Corcaigh
October-9th-2012, 10:33 PM
You are delivering services without a Purchase Order, pre-payment, or contract?

DCSaints_fan
October-9th-2012, 11:00 PM
Well I've actually met her dog, it's an awesome lab, I just couldn't do it!


Don't need to go that far You "find" her dog one night ... Then knock on her door. Say you "just happened to be in the neighborhood" when you discovered Fido wandering the streets, and recognized as her dog. Then say something like "might want to keep a closer eye on Fido ... I nearly ran him over ..."

I think that will get the point across

Pride
October-9th-2012, 11:04 PM
You are delivering services without a Purchase Order, pre-payment, or contract?

Yes I know, I should've known better, but it is what it is. The risk vs reward was right

chipwhich
October-9th-2012, 11:19 PM
Yes I know, I should've known better, but it is what it is. The risk vs reward was right

Not really. There is no reward for doing work without a contract.

AsburySkinsFan
October-9th-2012, 11:22 PM
Oh I have one, he's just out of town and I haven't been able to reach him and this literally came up yesterday and I wanted to get opinions on it asap =)

Good contact your lawyer, not us, we know a lot of different things here and there are a couple lawyers here, but we aren't in your state, and don't know all of you details. The best we could do is speculate, and that's not what you need.

Pride
October-9th-2012, 11:39 PM
Not really. There is no reward for doing work without a contract.

Well it's not like I won't get paid for what I've already done, and the amount of money that was on the table was worth the gamble.

Kosher Ham
October-10th-2012, 02:32 AM
Pride...I don't know man. Sounds like you already lost to me.

No contract, no e-mails saying you needed or didn't need a contract is what it reads like.

Good luck, and you might not get paid. Be smarter going forward.

I expect to see this on one of those Judge Judy type of shows in the future.

Elessar78
October-10th-2012, 07:20 AM
Well I've actually met her dog, it's an awesome lab, I just couldn't do it!

Works with no contract. Won't kill dog out of spite. Are you always this soft?

Madison Redskin
October-10th-2012, 07:44 AM
Good contact your lawyer, not us, we know a lot of different things here and there are a couple lawyers here, but we aren't in your state, and don't know all of you details. The best we could do is speculate, and that's not what you need.

This ^. I am a transactional attorney, I draft contracts for a living and I would love to help. However, I won't provide you with advice because I am not licensed in Ohio and I don't have enough facts to provide you with sound advice. I suspect the other lawyers on this board would say the same thing. In any case, best of luck.

Corcaigh
October-10th-2012, 09:02 AM
Yes I know, I should've known better, but it is what it is. The risk vs reward was right

If the buyer won't make a good faith attempt to sign an agreement, letter of intent, or make a partial payment, I think you are hugely underestimating the risk. Now if you would have been idle and there wasn't alternative work there is no financial loss. :-)

If you want to be successful in sales, the first thing you need to do everyday is stand in front of the mirror and say ""No, no, no" until your tongue bleeds. :)

China
October-10th-2012, 09:20 AM
Have her dog killed.

~Bang

Made me think of this:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31qxxhAr9YL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

LadySkinsFan
October-10th-2012, 11:47 AM
Contact a lawyer. In the meantime, tell her immediately that all training stops unless she signs your agreement by x date. Don't do the last 2 weeks of training unless she signs the agreement.

She will most likely stiff you for the money. It will cost you more in lawyer fees to get the first 2 weeks training fees.

I don't do business without a contract, unless I have an email trail agreeing to my fee. I just did this with a new client when I turned around a proposal in 4 days. I started, sent my standard contract, and the client signed it within a day. Also, the person who recommended me to this client is an old friend of mine who is also working with this company as a consultant, so I was pretty confident that things would work out okay. I received my payment within a week of submitted my invoice too.

It's just good business to be on the same page contractually before you begin to render services. Make it your SOP from now on. And if a customer is putting up roadblocks in your contract like you described (which are totally unreasonable on her part BTW), she'll drag her feet on paying you in a timely manner too. I've gone to net 15 days in my contracts, just so my clients don't drag their feet on paying.

Better to let this particular client go than have continual headaches. Good luck. Feel free to PM me if you want. I have some horror stories to share that will pertain to your situation.

Also, I will not offer legal advice, just tell you my experiences.

Predicto
October-10th-2012, 12:48 PM
This ^. I am a transactional attorney, I draft contracts for a living and I would love to help. However, I won't provide you with advice because I am not licensed in Ohio and I don't have enough facts to provide you with sound advice. I suspect the other lawyers on this board would say the same thing. In any case, best of luck.

This. I am an attorney and even if my job allowed me to give private advice (it doesn't) I would never give legal advice on a message board. And any legal advice you DO get from a stranger on a message board will be worth just about exactly what you paid for it.

Good luck with your problem.