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Sarge
April-28th-2004, 03:05 AM
For all of you that think for whatever reason I'm a "Bush Homer", heres something he and I don't see eye to eye on.

http://rense.com/general52/illeg.htm

Illegal Immigration Spikes
As 1000s Pour Across
Border Daily
By Olga R. Rodriguez
Associated Press Writer
4-27-4

SASABE, Mexico (AP) -- After a four-year decline, illegal immigration from Mexico is spiking as several thousand migrants a day rush across the border in hopes of getting work visas under a program President Bush proposed. Many also are trying to beat tighter security to come in June.

The U.S. border patrol told The Associated Press that detentions - which it uses to judge illegal migration rates - jumped 25 percent to 535,000 in the six months ending March 31 compared to a year ago.

Near Sasabe, a town bordering the Arizona desert that's the busiest illegal border crossing area, an average 2,000 people arrive daily.

On a recent day, at a break in a barbed-wire fence outside Sasabe, about 300 migrants scrambled out of 10 trucks and four vans within 30 minutes with their smugglers, who led crowds along a worn trail. As the sun set, they disappeared into rolling hills that hide the treacherous desert.

Raudel Sanchez, a 22-year-old farm worker, said he wanted to get back to his job at a Minnesota ranch.

Sanchez crossed into the United States through Sasabe three years ago, but says the journey is getting more difficult. He walked three days in the desert and was out of water when he was caught in Arizona and deported.

Undeterred, he said he planned to take a bus to Altar, a northern city about 70 miles from the border where migrants hire smugglers. From there, he planned to head back to Sasabe and cross again.

``It's already very hard to cross, but it's going to be even harder,'' he said in Nogales. ``I need to try again, at least one more time, and if I fail, I'll go back home.''

Many migrants are betting on the approval of Bush's migration proposal, which faces an uphill battle in Congress. About 75 percent of those arrested are Mexican, while the rest are from Central America and other places, U.S. customs officials said.

In January, Bush proposed a guest-worker plan that would give legal status to undocumented migrants already working in the United States and to those outside the country who can prove they have been offered a job.

Because it's hard to get a job offer while in Mexico, many are heading north now, hoping to get settled before a program is in place.

Mexicans living in the United States have criticized Bush's proposal. Many say they wouldn't apply, fearing it could be a trap to deport them.

But in Mexico, the program has given many migrants hope that they might be able to seek something better north of the border, and that is enough to convince some to cross now rather than later.

``I want to try and make it to the United States to find out more about the permits because I've heard that with a job it will be easier to get'' a visa, said Jaime Ulloa, speaking in Nogales after being deported for a third time. He is trying to get to Florida, where a U.S. farmer has promised him a job picking vegetables.

Mark Krikorian, executive director for the Center for Immigration Studies, a group that favors stricter immigration policies, said the rise in illegal migration also shot up in 1986 when an amnesty was announced.

``Illegal aliens will respond to the messages the government sends,'' Krikorian said. ``When we send the message that we are thinking about amnesty, they decide it may be worth it to try to cross.''

Illegal migration had been declining along the U.S.-Mexico border since 2000. U.S. border patrol figures show detentions dropped from 1.6 million in 2000 to 905,000 in the fiscal year that ended last Sept. 30.

There is no exact data on the number of people crossing illegally. But in an indication of increased traffic, 535,000 illegal migrants were arrested along the U.S.-Mexico border from Oct. 1 to March 31, said Gloria Chavez of the U.S. Customs and Border Protection Bureau.

In the same period, the border patrol's Tucson sector detained 70,000 more people, an increase of 49 percent.

U.S. Customs and Border Protection Commissioner Robert Bonner attributes part of the jump to increased security. ``The main reason we're seeing an increase in apprehensions is because the border patrol is more effective, particularly in the Tucson sector,'' he said.

But Mexican officials are also seeing an increase. Grupo Beta, a Mexican government-sponsored group that tries to discourage migrants from crossing and aids those stranded in the desert, said 56,000 migrants went through Sasabe in March compared to 41,000 in March 2003.

In Altar, a farming town that has become the gathering point for those heading to Arizona, street vendors sell backpacks, water jugs and salt pills by the thousands.

The modest homes around the plaza, crowded with triple-decker bunk beds, serve as makeshift motels for migrants. They're almost always at capacity, said Francisco Garcia, a former mayor who now volunteers at the town's only migrant shelter.

``We're a town with a population of 6,000, and there have been weeks when we have twice as many people,'' Garcia said.

Under new security measures, about 300 more U.S. border agents will be deployed by June 1 along the Mexico-Arizona border. The number of border agents assigned to the Tucson sector will eventually increase from 1,800 to 2,500, Bonner said.

Many of the additional agents already have been sent to the Tohono O'odham Indian reservation, an area west of Sasabe where illegal migrant traffic has ballooned, said border patrol spokesman Charles Griffin.

The heightened border security is driving more migrants to more treacherous desert routes between Sonoyta and San Luis Rio Colorado in western Arizona, said Enrique Enriquez, an agent with Mexico's Grupo Beta.

Grupo Beta plans to assign rescuers to Sonoyta in May, Enriquez said. Every year, hundreds of migrants die in the desert, where temperatures soar above 100 degrees in summer.

Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2004 http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4027956,00.html

Larry
April-28th-2004, 07:41 AM
But, if it weren't for illegals, then employers who have jobs that physicly can't be moved overseas, would just have to pay market prices for american labor!

Obviously, our government's plan is that, if you can't export the job, import the worker.

(Yes, this was sarcasm).

Destino
April-28th-2004, 08:39 AM
Would it be illegal to use the military to seal our borders? I know they aren't supposed to be involved in domestic law enforcement but would this situation be considered national defense?

Thiebear
April-28th-2004, 08:45 AM
One of the mandates is the ability to use the National Guard and other Military at the borders.

Dont you dare implement a Draft (isnt going to happen) and say we need you to do your part.
While the borders are an open door.. and you are not doing your part...

codeorama
April-28th-2004, 08:46 AM
I am ALL FOR limiting immigration.

This is one thing that bothers me greatly. We have business owners who are not US citizens that DON'T pay taxes. This is just stupid. They are here, making money and don't contribute to our country. Maybe there is something I don't know about, if so, someone please correct me.

But here in SE Virginia, we don't have the largest foriegn population compared to other places I've been, but my brother, who works for Coca Cola tells me about the number of accounts that he has that are owned by foriegners that are tax exempt.

That pisses me off.

du7st
April-28th-2004, 08:51 AM
Originally posted by codeorama
I am ALL FOR limiting immigration.

This is one thing that bothers me greatly. We have business owners who are not US citizens that DON'T pay taxes. This is just stupid. They are here, making money and don't contribute to our country. Maybe there is something I don't know about, if so, someone please correct me.

But here in SE Virginia, we don't have the largest foriegn population compared to other places I've been, but my brother, who works for Coca Cola tells me about the number of accounts that he has that are owned by foriegners that are tax exempt.

That pisses me off.

Well if smalltime immigrant business owners pisses you off, I can't imagine how angry you are over the giant corporations and their tax shelters.

codeorama
April-28th-2004, 09:09 AM
Originally posted by du7st


Well if smalltime immigrant business owners pisses you off, I can't imagine how angry you are over the giant corporations and their tax shelters.

That pisses me off even more....

Fred Jones
April-28th-2004, 09:23 AM
I have to confess that I am conservative when it comes to immigration. Close the borders and throw out all the illegals. Also, stop providing health care, at tax payer expense, to people that cross the border just to receive medical attention than head back to Mexico.

Cskin
April-28th-2004, 09:29 AM
Would it be illegal to use the military to seal our borders? I know they aren't supposed to be involved in domestic law enforcement but would this situation be considered national defense?
Constitutionally, the military is available to protect US citizens and it's borders.

I'm amazed Bush can put his hand in the man who openly supports his citizens to cross the border illegally. Vicente Fox is in bed with the mexican drug cartels among others. And.. I'm quite sure he's thankful to have a majority of the American dollars his illegal aliens in America make are sent back to be spent in the Mexican economy. You just can't beat revenue flowing into your economy without paying the wages associated with it.

Kilmer17
April-28th-2004, 09:31 AM
A mandatory national service would provide us enough troops to man the borders tight.

Funkyalligator
April-28th-2004, 09:35 AM
Yeah....I'd love to be able to seal our border......I'd say arm our border guards better so they can actually take out some of these illegals coming across the border....that will slow down the flood.....I also don't want them to have access to our health and welfare support system....if they are actually paying taxes, than fine with me but if not f*ck them.....

phanatic
April-28th-2004, 12:09 PM
There's a better solution. Now we have a use for all those mines we dig up around the world. Ok, seriously, this problem is out of control. We just granted amnest to over 2 million Mexican immigrants (illegals) and more are flooding in. Say goodbye to your trade jobs.

Mad Mike
April-28th-2004, 01:36 PM
I agree Sarge. I don't always agree with Bush. I dont agree with this and some other issues. For me it always comes down to the most important issue. The war on terror. Everything else can be fixed later. I don't always agree with him there either but he is heads above anyone else and that makes him the lesser of two evils.

If a Dem were to have stepped up with a good aggressive plan, he would have as good a shot at getting my vote as anyone else. But Kerry's kumba-ya plan falls far short of the mark.

Phat Hog
April-28th-2004, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by Fred Jones
Close the borders and throw out all the illegals. Also, stop providing health care, at tax payer expense, to people that cross the border just to receive medical attention than head back to Mexico.

Got to agree with you there Fred. It’s amazing that we considering making concessions for foreigners that are here illegally. If there weren’t a legal way to get into the country, them perhaps we could have a debate, but this President is on the side of stupid here.

Burgold
April-28th-2004, 05:25 PM
Isn't making entrance easier for illegal aliens or not securing the borders also an invitation to terrorists? This Bush leniency towards illegal immigration isn't only about jobs, but is also about our safety. People who are discovered to be here illegally should be booted out. Efforts should be made to protect the border from illegal entry. To me this is a sign of either hypocrisy or short sightedness on the part of the President.

GrossmansGators
April-28th-2004, 06:49 PM
I couldnt agree more with Bush, theyre our jobs not everyone elses.

skinsfanjoe
April-28th-2004, 10:44 PM
So what does Bush plan on gaining with this policy? The Hispanic vote? Moderate vote? Someone please give me something here. :doh:

ohioskins
April-28th-2004, 10:55 PM
Yes Sarge I think you are a Bush Homer :D

Maybe we can fill the military with these immigrants. Maybe a few platoons of just illegals and after they serve six years they have the right to become US citizens. Kill two birds with one stone.

skinamatic
April-29th-2004, 12:09 AM
Bottom Line no matter who you vote for. We need to start taking care of our own, and not everybody else. I see it all the time. I have watched as van loads of 20 or more illegal aliens are stopped by the police. We call our littel 1-800 number to Naturalization and Immigration and they tell us let em go its not enough for us to bother with. Well 20 eventually turns into 100 and 100 turns into 1000 until like now its out of control. It's just flat out ridiculous.

Larry
April-29th-2004, 07:29 AM
'joe,

I think you'll find that he hopes to win several groups of votes with this policy.

One group is what I think of as the "illegal vote". We've allowed so many people in to this country who don't want to be americans, they just want to get paid like one, that they now represent enough votes to swing several states. I'm willing to bet you that, for example, here in Florida, a lot of illegals actually manage to vote in our elections. And even if you want to claim that they don't, for every illegal in this country there are several people who snuck accross five years ago, got amnesty, now they're citizens, but they want their brothers, nieces, and cousins to come in, too.

Another group he wants to get support from is the group that thinks that the biggest problems with the current american economy are that businesses and the people who own them aren't completely tax free, and all these pesky american who don't own businesses are making too much money. (Y'know, the folks who think falling wages and raising unemployment, but raising corporate proffits, are a great economy.)