Doctor says Kerry wound "Self Inflicted"

[Thiebear]

You know its bad when your own doctor says (In the words of Monty Python)
IT's merely a flesh wound:


Kerry's Vietnam Doc: Wound Accidentally Self-Inflicted

The Navy medic who treated Sen. John Kerry after he sustained his first battlefield wound in Vietnam said Tuesday that he thought that the injury had been inadvertently self-inflicted - raising new questions about why Kerry sought a Purple Heart after the incident.

Contacted by National Review Online, Dr. Louis Letson recalled that Kerry insisted during treatment that he was injured by enemy fire while his swift boat was patrolling the Mekong Delta on Dec. 2, 1968.

However, "some of his crew confided that they did not receive any fire from shore," the Navy doc told NRO.

Instead, his crewmen claimed that Kerry "had fired a mortar round at close range to some rocks on shore."

One crewman told Letson that he thought Kerry's injury "was caused by a fragment ricocheting from that mortar round when it struck the rocks."

Concluded Letson, "That seemed to fit the injury which I treated."

He described the top Democrat's wound as "a small piece of metal sticking very superficially in the skin of Kerry's arm.

"The metal fragment measured about 1 cm. in length and was about 2 or 3 mm in diameter. It certainly did not look like a round from a rifle."

Letson recalled that he "simply removed the piece of metal by lifting it out of the skin with forceps.

"I doubt that it penetrated more than 3 or 4 mm. It did not require probing to find it, did not require any anesthesia to remove it, and did not require any sutures to close the wound.

"The wound was covered with a bandaid," Dr. Letson said.

Based on the bandaid wound that was likely a result of a mortar round he fired, Kerry sought and eventually received his first Purple Heart.
:doh:

[SEF]

Wow. This guy has one hell of a memory. He must not be from Alabama. What makes this even more disgusting is the president* didn't get anything for that paper cut he bravely endured that time he managed to show up for his drill weekend.

[Thiebear]

So you
slammed everyone from alabama.
slammed the doctor
slammed Bush

Any comments on the actual event in the article or dont you want to have an opinion on that?

[webnarc]

I've been waiting to read this. Please source it because it sounds like an editorial piece.

[Buford]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2143-2004May4.html


here you go. Its alittle different though.

[Funkyalligator]

National Review online....hmmmmm.....sounds like a very credible news source......NOT!!!!!!.....Please....

Also...as far as I know you don't seek out medals....they are given by higher level officers......I doubt that part is true either...

[webnarc]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2143-2004May4.html


here you go. Its alittle different though.

Thanks for the link :).

It's another John Kerry going to the bathroom story.

[Mad Mike]

Hadn't heard about this. I have heard one person (doctor? commander?) say he had seen paper cuts worse than Kerrys wound . Not sure if it is the same incident or another and I am sure it was an exaggeration but it makes you wonder. The same person went on to say that it seemed unusual to him to request a purple heart for such a small wound but legaly he qualified so it was approved.

Now here's what gets me. Kerry ASKS for his purple hearts for minor injurys, THEN he comes back to America and makes a big deal of throwing his medals away. Only they aren't his medals. As best as anyone can figure they are his ribbons which can be easily replaced. The only common ground I can find in the two events is the need for attention.

The other impression I get is that Kerry had planned to go into politics at an early age. Not a big deal, some people are like that. But It makes me wonder if his tour in Vietnam was his way of emulating his childhood hero JFK in an effort to pump up his future political goals.

Like I said. I don't consider this to be that big a deal, but it does make me a bit uncomfortable with him. It just seems to be a patern of pre-meditated attention seeking that is more about style than substance.

JMO

[Buford]

I didn't know you could request Medals. I thought they were given to you by a commanding officer who chooses.

How does it work?

[Cskin]

He's got until November to hang himself... and at the rate he's going he won't even be Democrats TRUE choice as their democratic nominee.

[Thiebear]

Think of it like this:

IF (in all caps) President Bush's Doctor came out from one of the bases he was allegedly at when not helping someone I cant remember campaign and said: I remember Bush came in and had to get medication to control his air-sickness...

You couldnt turn on a channel and not read about it.

True? Not true???

You reach 3 purple hearts you got out of Vietnam (thats why you ask for them)... His commanding officer at the time said to give him one to shut him up... (does it seem plausable?)

If you say the word "Bandaid" and "Purple Heart" in the same sentence you should be ashamed of yourself...

wooh rambling done...

[Mad Mike]

Originally posted by Thiebear

If you say the word "Bandaid" and "Purple Heart" in the same sentence you should be ashamed of yourself...

wooh rambling done...

Don't know the point of the rest of your rambling but *I* didn't say purple heart and bandaid in the same sentence. THE MAN WHO APPROVED THE PURPLE HEART DID.

This is a man who has seen serious wounds and his comment was that it was unusual to hve someone with such minor wounds request a purple heart.

I'm sorry if you don't like the message but that is what I heard. I have to run now but I wil try to dig up some info on the web tonight. OR, you can educate yourself and do your own research. :rolleyes:

[SEF]

Originally posted by Thiebear
So you
slammed everyone from alabama.
slammed the doctor
slammed Bush

Any comments on the actual event in the article or dont you want to have an opinion on that?

I wasn't slamming everyone from Alabama. I just figured they don't have good memories since they don't remember Bush showing up. I didn't slam the doctor. I said he had one hell of a memory to remember one superficial wound that happened 36 years ago out of all the people he treated. I did slam Bush.

I do have an opinion on the article. It's part of the on going GOP smear job against Kerry. Nothing but red meat for certain types of people. I think it's pathetic and a sign of desperation, but predictable. And I imagine most of the indignation from the right is feigned.

I'm sure had Kerry hid behind his daddy and not gone he would be stealing huge amounts of voters from the GOP. :rolleyes:

[Kilmer17]

hmmmmm. my thoughts?



IT WAS 30 FU@#ING YEARS AGO!!!!

[Storm]

At least he was willing to actually go to war and fight for his country and be put in a position to be hurt by mortars rather than hide behind his dads influence and get a cushy job in the Air National Guards.

[Hooper]

Come on, it's far more patriotic to blow off a mandatory physical -- especially since the National Guard was issuing mandatory drug tests for the first time -- and go AWOL for a year than go to Vietnam. Dubya's the hero, not that french-looking Kerry.

It was thirty years ago, guys. Who cares? I want to know who's going to do something for us NOW. Sadly, neither Kerry or Dubya excites me in the least. I guess Kerry should gets points for being able to complete a sentence. Have you actually listened to Dubya lately? His speech is actually regresssing. I'm worried that soon he won't be able to form a single word.

[Ignatius J.]

If Kerry's wounds did not merit a purple heart than go after the guy who awarded them to him. Last time I checked, you can't just ask for a purple heart and get one.

-DB

[Kilmer17]

Actually you can.

[SEF]

It has to be awarded by someone. Commanding officer. And the wound has to meet certain criteria to qualify.

[Kilmer17]

Yes, but the soldier can put in for it himself.

It has to be that way. Otherwise, a soldier could only get a PH if they were wounded while a commanding officer was watching.

[KevinthePRF]

This d**k waiving contest is getting exhausting.

You were only in the coastguard.

Well you were unpatriotic.

Well at least I was at Vietnam, you stayed home.

Well, at least I didn't fake my injury to seem like a real hero.


Wow, this has SO MUCH to do with how either will be as a president for the next four years, it's SOOOOO important. *YAAAAAAAWWWNNN*

[SEF]

Of course, but it's not quite so simple as asking for one and then you get it.

[Kilmer17]

Never said it was.

[SEF]

"Last time I checked, you can't just ask for a purple heart and get one."

"Actually you can."

[Kilmer17]

Thats a true statement. Nowhere does it say I thought it was easy.

[SEF]

Originally posted by Kilmer17
Thats a true statement. Nowhere does it say I thought it was easy.

Riiiiight. :rolleyes:

[DjTj]

I'm sure there's a lot of Purple Hearts from 30 years ago that could be contested - it's not like anyone was incredibly happy about being over there.

What I'm amazed about is that this is what is stuck in the headlines day to day when Kerry also won a Silver Star and a Bronze Star while he was over there. It's not like he showed up, lied about 3 Purple Hearts, and got the heck out of there without firing a shot, but that's the impression I get from the media.

[Kilmer17]

That's the impression in the media because Kerry hasnt stood firm on what he has said. His story keeps changing.

[BD]

As a former Contributing Editor to National Review Online - I say it's one hell of a reputable source, and exists today as a political magazine that is second to none. It's definitely more reputable than the most prominent liberal political magazine, The New Republic (see Stephen Glass and Ruth Shalit).

That said, I don't much care about this issue. I think John Kerry deserves respect for serving in Vietnam and having the balls to volunteer, no matter whether he had political motivations in doing so, or did something stupid while over there in trying to get a purple heart. Definitely a step up from Bill Clinton in terms of his approach to Vietnam - one cannot deny that.

BD

[Lone Star Skin Fan]

shameful. Yeah, that is really believable. It's amazing how this is even an issue. An obvious draft dodger vs. medal winner. You would think the Bush people would avoid this issue.
I wish the debates would come already. I want to hear what they say on the real issues instead of one side trying to destroy the integrity of the other.
A lying dishonest secretive administration calling someone a flip-flopper is hilarious in itself.

[Destino]

Originally posted by Kilmer17
hmmmmm. my thoughts?



IT WAS 30 FU@#ING YEARS AGO!!!!

Conservatives on this board should listen to Kilmer. No matter how bad Kerry did in Vietnam, he went and questioning one purple heart out of three isn't going to change the fact Bush has still been unable to account for the time in question. Although it was slick of him to release all kinds of info proving he was there....during the time NOT in question.

Leave the issue alone folks, the GOP has the military issue on lock, that won't change unless you open the door and let the democrats in.

[thew]

Let's just review here for a second...

#1 Kerry Volenteered to go to Vietnam when most young men of privledge were using influence to get out of the war. ( George, Dick )...

#2 Kerry Volenteered to go back to vietnam after his first term was over.

#3 You don't request medals they are awarded.

#4 Even if one of his purple hearts was a slight wound so what. I mean you get those things for having bullets or shrapmedal removed from your body. Think of that.. Dude was wounded three different times and they're questioning one? I don't understand the point?

#5 If you figure in that Kerry not only recieved three purple hearts but a bronze star and a silver star for the actions even a really stupid person could reason that this wasn't a point to attack in his resume. I mean not when George who was a self discribed drunk at the time choose not to serve in the army. Dick didn't even serve in the reserves but said "I had better things to do?"

There is so much to pick on Kerry about. Why would you choose his military record when the dude obviously did his duty very bravely.

[Sarge]

Sad if he scammed a Purple Heart for that. I've probably taken dumps that hurt more. Maybe I should've let them put me in for one in Afganistan for my busted arm

[funnyperson1]

Why can't we stop arguing about this **** when we could be focusing on actual issues to see who will be the better president.

Do I buy Kerry as a war Hero? No. Did he do his duty more so than others? Yes. The point is moot. In an election all about mud slinging, this is just another mudball.

[aREDSKIN]

Originally posted by Ignatius J.
If Kerry's wounds did not merit a purple heart than go after the guy who awarded them to him. Last time I checked, you can't just ask for a purple heart and get one.

-DB

My understanding of what type of wound qualifies a solider for a puple heart is that if it draws blood. That's it nothing more. Now let me say I have never been in the service and that my understanding come from reading news articles. That's it nothing more.

[SEF]

From AR 600-8-22
http://www.purpleheart.org/Awd_of_PH.htm

(2) A wound is defined as an injury to any part of the body from an outside force or agent sustained under one or more of the conditions listed above. A physical lesion is not required, however, the wound for which the award is made must have required treatment by a medical officer and records of medical treatment for wounds or injuries received in action must have been made a matter of official record.

[chomerics]

Originally posted by Sarge
Sad if he scammed a Purple Heart for that. I've probably taken dumps that hurt more. Maybe I should've let them put me in for one in Afganistan for my busted arm

Sarge, anything you say from now on has no merit. The fact that you are in the military, and you are dumping on someone who has

1. Voulenteered for combat duty.

2. Been injured in combat.

3. Been awarded the purple heart three times.

shows you have no credibility. You recklessly defend somebody who did whatever he could NOT to go to war, caused other less fortunate Americans to be drafted and forced into going to Vietnam, because they did not have as a privilaged life: and then on top of it all, the silver spoon fed dolt fails to show up for his duty to serve!!! This shows where you really stand.

You are a hypocrite to the N'th degree. Now, anytime I hear you coming down on somebody for their beliefs about war, I'll repost this thread, just to remind everyone what you truly are. A hypocrite with an axe to grind against a war hero because he's running against your rump swab:doh:

If you would have stayed out of a few of these threads and not added your $.02, I would have had a lot more respect for you.

[chomerics]

Originally posted by funnyperson1
Why can't we stop arguing about this **** when we could be focusing on actual issues to see who will be the better president.


Because the current Administration doesn't have anything to run on.

Economy
Health Care
Education
Terrorism
War in Iraq
Jobs
Forign Policy
Immigration
Partisain Leadership
Budget
Deficit

In all the platforms listed above, Bush has been an absolute failure. He has nothing to run on, except for the mud slinging, it's his only chance.

[TheDoyler23]

Kerry went to war while dubya was off doing coke somewhere. I see a distinct difference. While Kerry may not have been too severly injured for his first purple heart, he did recieve several others.

[Sarge]

Originally posted by chomerics


Sarge, anything you say from now on has no merit. The fact that you are in the military, and you are dumping on someone who has

1. Voulenteered for combat duty.

2. Been injured in combat.

3. Been awarded the purple heart three times.

shows you have no credibility. You recklessly defend somebody who did whatever he could NOT to go to war, caused other less fortunate Americans to be drafted and forced into going to Vietnam, because they did not have as a privilaged life: and then on top of it all, the silver spoon fed dolt fails to show up for his duty to serve!!! This shows where you really stand.

You are a hypocrite to the N'th degree. Now, anytime I hear you coming down on somebody for their beliefs about war, I'll repost this thread, just to remind everyone what you truly are. A hypocrite with an axe to grind against a war hero because he's running against your rump swab:doh:

If you would have stayed out of a few of these threads and not added your $.02, I would have had a lot more respect for you.

You don't know how shattering it is that I have lost your respect, with all the many years of military service you have. Why don't you search some posts of mine chucklehead, and see if I have ever bashed Kerry for being in Vietnam. Good luck because you won't find it. All I said is that if he got a Purple Heart for a sliver of metal that was removed with tweezers and covered with a Band-aid, that that is sad. And I have never "recklessly" defended Klinton anywhere. So blow me *****wipe

[chomerics]

Originally posted by Sarge


You don't know how shattering it is that I have lost your respect, with all the many years of military service you have. Why don't you search some posts of mine chucklehead, and see if I have ever bashed Kerry for being in Vietnam. Good luck because you won't find it. All I said is that if he got a Purple Heart for a sliver of metal that was removed with tweezers and covered with a Band-aid, that that is sad. And I have never "recklessly" defended Klinton anywhere. So blow me *****wipe

Oh, I'm sorry Sarge, jumping in on the bandwagon and poking fun at Kerry's medals isn't bashing him??? Gee, funny how I don't hear you pissing all over other servicemen who served and were injured, only Kerry.

But, you neglect to verify that GWB dodged Vietnam because of who his father was, then he went AWOL for a few months (actually he deserted the Guard if you want to get technical) and you defend him to a T. No, you're not hypocritical, instead of refuting allegations, which are true, you try to blame Clinton.

Your old tactic, if you can't win the argument, it's Clinton's fault. Christ, Clinton probably gave Bush the drugs that stopped him from taking his medical exam in the first place, so it WAS Clinton's fault, huh. :doh:

[Soliloquy]

Originally posted by BD
That said, I don't much care about this issue. I think John Kerry deserves respect for serving in Vietnam and having the balls to volunteer, no matter whether he had political motivations in doing so, or did something stupid while over there in trying to get a purple heart. Definitely a step up from Bill Clinton in terms of his approach to Vietnam - one cannot deny that.


Well said.

[Sarge]

Originally posted by chomerics


Oh, I'm sorry Sarge, jumping in on the bandwagon and poking fun at Kerry's medals isn't bashing him??? Gee, funny how I don't hear you pissing all over other servicemen who served and were injured, only Kerry.

But, you neglect to verify that GWB dodged Vietnam because of who his father was, then he went AWOL for a few months (actually he deserted the Guard if you want to get technical) and you defend him to a T. No, you're not hypocritical, instead of refuting allegations, which are true, you try to blame Clinton.

Your old tactic, if you can't win the argument, it's Clinton's fault. Christ, Clinton probably gave Bush the drugs that stopped him from taking his medical exam in the first place, so it WAS Clinton's fault, huh. :doh:

You know why I make "fun" of this particular medal? Because I can. Because unlike you, I have been in combat and been shot at. Because I was offered a Purple Heart in Afganistan but turned it down. In fact, my exact words were, "Save it for someone that gets shot". I did take my CO up on the Bronze Star though.

It's unfortunate that in your shrill defense of Kerry that you can't seem to stay on topic, which I believe says he "self inflicted a wound" No one will ever know for certain, but if it was covered by a Band Aid, that's pretty lame. It also lends credibility to the claim that he was there to pad his resume and pretty much only wanted "showtime" for whatever agenda he had.

I can understand that you becoming alarmed because someone who has been in the military for 19 years chimes in and laughs at Kerry getting a Purple Heart for a scratch. It probably hurts when someone who knows more than you about a subject sets you straight in a public forum. But when you continue to post some of the crap you do as fact, someone's gonna call you on it

And I was hoping you'd be smart enough to see how I turned your own words about Bush


You recklessly defend somebody who did whatever he could NOT to go to war, caused other less fortunate Americans to be drafted and forced into going to Vietnam, because they did not have as a privilaged life:



to fit Klinton, but I guess you're not.

At least Bush wasn't in Moscow protesting the war

[chomerics]

Originally posted by Sarge


You know why I make "fun" of this particular medal? Because I can. Because unlike you, I have been in combat and been shot at. Because I was offered a Purple Heart in Afganistan but turned it down. In fact, my exact words were, "Save it for someone that gets shot". I did take my CO up on the Bronze Star though.

It's unfortunate that in your shrill defense of Kerry that you can't seem to stay on topic, which I believe says he "self inflicted a wound" No one will ever know for certain, but if it was covered by a Band Aid, that's pretty lame. It also lends credibility to the claim that he was there to pad his resume and pretty much only wanted "showtime" for whatever agenda he had.

I can understand that you becoming alarmed because someone who has been in the military for 19 years chimes in and laughs at Kerry getting a Purple Heart for a scratch. It probably hurts when someone who knows more than you about a subject sets you straight in a public forum. But when you continue to post some of the crap you do as fact, someone's gonna call you on it

And I was hoping you'd be smart enough to see how I turned your own words about Bush
to fit Klinton, but I guess you're not.

At least Bush wasn't in Moscow protesting the war

I never brought up your service, just your hypocritical stance for sticking up for Bush and putting down Kerry when he went to war.

Again, you throw the blame at Clinton, instead of taking about the issues. We'll never agree on Clinton, I really don't care, but I still haven't heard you give a good explination as to why you would support a deserter and attack a veteran.

[Sarge]

:gus: Again..............one more time for the terminally slow. I have never bashed Kerry or Bush's service. It is a non issue to me, but only to a point where Kerry quits bringing it up.

The only thing I have said is that if he got a medal for an "injury" that was taken care of with a pair of tweezers and a Band Aid, that that was lame.

Trust me, Kerry has enough issues to bash without having to go back almost 40 years.

AS fo Klinton, you do realize that some less fortunate AMerican went in his place, right? His name may even be on that wall on the mall.

[Ravens777]

Originally posted by funnyperson1
Why can't we stop arguing about this **** when we could be focusing on actual issues to see who will be the better president.

Do I buy Kerry as a war Hero? No. Did he do his duty more so than others? Yes. The point is moot. In an election all about mud slinging, this is just another mudball.




Great post! I too don’t think Kerry is a Great War hero but he did serve his country and with that in mind we all need to tip our hat to all that serve the US.

The second point of your post should scream loudly to both candidates, lets have some debates and could they both leave the mud home.

[Thiebear]

I also think going over there is enought to qualify:

But the bandaid thing is totally worth making fun of: Especially since Kerry Wont stop talking about it. If he himself and his workers and hiw website were not claiming things that are easy to prove false then this would be a non-issue.

BUT when the candidate himself keeps bringing it up YOU can not keep saying to stop talking about it: ITS 30 years ago STFU.. Bush Never even went over there so Kerry is good...

I'll stop pointing to the facts if He stops pointing to a LIE.. Good enough for you?

IF Kerry's website says "We were in a firefight in January and he wasnt am I allowed to point out the previous commander saying "NO, that was me!"?

SO yes lets talk about the issues: One of the issues is the fact 1/8th of the campaing from Kerry is that he was in vietnam, he was injured, he came back and said he saw atrocities, and he threw his medals/ribbons away and then put them back on....

The others are:
IRAQ / UN - stay the course, turn over to the UN almost the same.
Jobs - he proposed 10 million more, jobs are comming back slowly.
Economy- must be doing better if Greenie is going to raise interest rates..
Taxes - up the income tax rate on the wealthy but nothing on Capital gains which is 80% of Kerrys income...
Education - The government is way too involved.. Sen Kennedy wrote Bushes Education bill...
Health Care - Bush spent waaaay too much
Abortion - Not sure where Kerry stands... he's on both sides...

edit:
OHHH and Sarg can say what he wants because he has been there
You can say what you want because people like Tillman and Kerry and The current guardman/Army/Navy/Marines are fighting for you.
And there are civilians every day helping the families of the troops that are fighting for us to talk about this... This is not just a military thing.. If the bosses and AER and Red Cross and the lil ole lady down the street didnt watch the kids or bring a pie this couldnt be done.