Will Bush the Beheader use Terrorism to Become America's Pinochet?

[Jonathan]

Will Bush the Beheader use Terrorism to Become America's Pinochet?
by Harvey Wasserman

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0528-13.htm

Will George W. Bush use terrorism to become America's Pinochet?

Attorney-General John Ashcroft is priming the public for a terrorist attack, which can only mean Bush is sharpening his blades to behead the Constitution.

Augusto Pinochet seized absolute power in Chile on September 11, 1973. The US national security apparatus, including George H.W. Bush, used terrorism as an excuse to help Pinochet destroy what had been a constitutional democracy.

So is Shrub a president? Or is he a Pinochet?

By a 4:1 margin American historians have already rated W. "a failure." More than one in ten surveyed in the recent George Mason University History News Network Poll also rate Bush as "the worst president ever."

But ultimately, this Bush has no peer among US presidents. Let's look at three likely matches.

Richard Nixon trained Dick Cheney and Karl Rove as Dirty Tricksters. Nixon is Bush's role model for corruption, cynicism and personal psychosis. But Nixon was also a skilled, literate global diplomat who opened doors to China and the former Soviet Union and supported environmental protection. Bush has trashed all that.

Herbert Hoover callously presided over the beginnings of America's worst economic depression. Bush is right there. But Hoover was also a skilled, literate bureaucrat, and a Quaker-raised foe of war. Not exactly Bush.

Warren G. Harding was astonishingly corrupt. Bush, Halliburton and Enron have more than matched him. But Harding also hated repression and brought the anti-war socialist Eugene V. Debs straight from a federal prison cell to meet him in the Oval Office. Bush might well have had Debs executed.

Ultimately, Bush's real peers are not US presidents but Third World dictators, like Pinochet, many of whom his father also put in office. Their coda is clear:


Use of "terror" as an excuse for totalitarian control;
Official secrecy for its own sake;
Seizure of power in contempt of free elections;
Totalitarian militarism;
Abuse of human rights and liberties;
Love of the death penalty;
Hatred of a free press;
Imprisonment without legal recourse;
Widespread torture;
Brazen theft of public billions;
"Free market" smokescreens for corporate domination;
Taxing the poor to benefit the rich;
Hatred of labor unions;
Decimation of the natural environment;
Assaulting elected leaders anywhere, anytime;
Contempt for international treaties;
Reactionary alliance with right wing church groups;
Contempt for women's rights;
Manipulating divisions of race and class.
The one American actually offered a dictatorship, George Washington, turned it down, shaping the nature of the Presidency for more than two centuries....until now.

Meanwhile Bush has beheaded the American economy, replacing First World surpluses with Third World debt.

Reminiscent of Joe Stalin, foreign intelligence, economic assessment and even basic science must not contradict Rovian spin or fundamentalist prophecy.

American education, once the envy of the world, is in shambles, with global students now turning away for the first time. America's moral prestige, never higher than after September 11, 2001, has been trashed. No US president has ever been so personally hated.

And never has a would-be Third World dictator stood more ready to shred our Constitution.

Stalin once quipped that power resides not with those who cast the votes, but with those that count them.

Bush may try to follow Stalin's (and brother Jeb's) lead by stealing the 2004 election, as in 2000. Or he may try to seize power like Pinochet did on 9/11/73 in a repressive crusade against convenient terrorism.

But one thing is certain: if Shrub's hyped-up power play succeeds, the beheading of America will be complete.

HARVEY WASSERMAN'S HISTORY OF THE US is available at www.harveywasserman.com. He is co-author (with Bob Fitrakis) of GEORGE W. BUSH VERSUS THE SUPERPOWER OF PEACE (www.freepress.org).

[Painkiller]

This article is absolutely insane. Comparing Bush to Pinochet? It lost me from the first sentence. "Bush the Beheader" I don't even know where to begin. :doh:

[Painkiller]

"Ultimately, Bush's real peers are not US presidents but Third World dictators, like Pinochet, many of whom his father also put in office. Their coda is clear:


Use of "terror" as an excuse for totalitarian control;
Official secrecy for its own sake;
Seizure of power in contempt of free elections;
Totalitarian militarism;
Abuse of human rights and liberties;
Love of the death penalty;
Hatred of a free press;
Imprisonment without legal recourse;
Widespread torture;
Brazen theft of public billions;
"Free market" smokescreens for corporate domination;
Taxing the poor to benefit the rich;
Hatred of labor unions;
Decimation of the natural environment;
Assaulting elected leaders anywhere, anytime;
Contempt for international treaties;
Reactionary alliance with right wing church groups;
Contempt for women's rights;
Manipulating divisions of race and class.
The one American actually offered a dictatorship, George Washington, turned it down, shaping the nature of the Presidency for more than two centuries....until now."

No doubt this person also believes that there are black helicopters flying over his home, spying on every move he makes.

[luckydevil]

Ahhh...the sweet smell of election season.

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

By a 4:1 margin American historians have already rated W. "a failure." More than one in ten surveyed in the recent George Mason University History News Network Poll also rate Bush as "the worst president ever."

I just can't believe a college poll would portray Bush in a negative light? It's not like thier pushing liberlism on these campuses.:puke:

[Jonathan]

Use of "terror" as an excuse for totalitarian control;
Official secrecy for its own sake;
Seizure of power in contempt of free elections;
Totalitarian militarism;
Abuse of human rights and liberties;
Love of the death penalty;
Hatred of a free press;
Imprisonment without legal recourse;
Widespread torture;
Brazen theft of public billions;
"Free market" smokescreens for corporate domination;
Taxing the poor to benefit the rich;
Hatred of labor unions;
Decimation of the natural environment;
Assaulting elected leaders anywhere, anytime;
Contempt for international treaties;
Reactionary alliance with right wing church groups;
Contempt for women's rights;
Manipulating divisions of race and class.

These are essentially the values of the Bush Administration. Remember the Patriot Act? the obsessive secrecy? The invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq? Abu Ghraib (or Abu Grub as Bush put it in his TV address which the main networks didn't bother to cover), Guantanamo and hundreds of illegal imprisonments? Halliburton and the other companies set up by Cheney et al in no bid contracts in Iraq? The reversal of budget surpluses with a staggering tax cut for the wealthiest of the wealthy? The abandonment of critical international treaties like the ABM treaty? The devastation of our environment through dramatic rollbacks of a huge number of regulations and unprecedented reversals of decades of progress in environmental law? The refusal to sign on to the extremely modest Kyoto treaty despite the dire threat of global warming? The siding with Israel and abandonment of any pretense of even handedness in the Middle East policy? The world has been destabilized by this administration in a very dangerous way. Our allies are frightened of us. Is this the direction you want America to go in?

[aREDSKIN]

Members of the Lunatic fringe are all but here.

[Glenn X]

Originally posted by offiss

By a 4:1 margin American historians have already rated W. "a failure." More than one in ten surveyed in the recent George Mason University History News Network Poll also rate Bush as "the worst president ever."
I just can't believe a college poll would portray Bush in a negative light? It's not like thier pushing liberlism on these campuses.:puke:
Yeah, this reminds of the time back in the mid '90s that my high school U.S. government teacher told us that Reagan was a "poor president" because a certain percentage of historians said so. When challenged on this point by a student, my teacher assured us that such an assessment was a valid one because "most historians are conservative." I didn't really object to this at the time because: (a) I was a Democrat; and (b) I didn't know whether or not what he was saying was true.

Then I got to college and discovered that most people working in the humanities, history included, were reliably left-of-center in their views, not right-of-center. Hmmm, I wonder where my government teacher was getting his history... :laugh:

[turdfurguson]

Originally posted by Jonathan
Will Bush the Beheader use Terrorism to Become America's Pinochet?
by Harvey Wasserman

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0528-13.htm

Will George W. Bush use terrorism to become America's Pinochet?

Attorney-General John Ashcroft is priming the public for a terrorist attack, which can only mean Bush is sharpening his blades to behead the Constitution.

Augusto Pinochet seized absolute power in Chile on September 11, 1973. The US national security apparatus, including George H.W. Bush, used terrorism as an excuse to help Pinochet destroy what had been a constitutional democracy.

So is Shrub a president? Or is he a Pinochet?

By a 4:1 margin American historians have already rated W. "a failure." More than one in ten surveyed in the recent George Mason University History News Network Poll also rate Bush as "the worst president ever."

But ultimately, this Bush has no peer among US presidents. Let's look at three likely matches.

Richard Nixon trained Dick Cheney and Karl Rove as Dirty Tricksters. Nixon is Bush's role model for corruption, cynicism and personal psychosis. But Nixon was also a skilled, literate global diplomat who opened doors to China and the former Soviet Union and supported environmental protection. Bush has trashed all that.

Herbert Hoover callously presided over the beginnings of America's worst economic depression. Bush is right there. But Hoover was also a skilled, literate bureaucrat, and a Quaker-raised foe of war. Not exactly Bush.

Warren G. Harding was astonishingly corrupt. Bush, Halliburton and Enron have more than matched him. But Harding also hated repression and brought the anti-war socialist Eugene V. Debs straight from a federal prison cell to meet him in the Oval Office. Bush might well have had Debs executed.

Ultimately, Bush's real peers are not US presidents but Third World dictators, like Pinochet, many of whom his father also put in office. Their coda is clear:


Use of "terror" as an excuse for totalitarian control;
Official secrecy for its own sake;
Seizure of power in contempt of free elections;
Totalitarian militarism;
Abuse of human rights and liberties;
Love of the death penalty;
Hatred of a free press;
Imprisonment without legal recourse;
Widespread torture;
Brazen theft of public billions;
"Free market" smokescreens for corporate domination;
Taxing the poor to benefit the rich;
Hatred of labor unions;
Decimation of the natural environment;
Assaulting elected leaders anywhere, anytime;
Contempt for international treaties;
Reactionary alliance with right wing church groups;
Contempt for women's rights;
Manipulating divisions of race and class.
The one American actually offered a dictatorship, George Washington, turned it down, shaping the nature of the Presidency for more than two centuries....until now.

Meanwhile Bush has beheaded the American economy, replacing First World surpluses with Third World debt.

Reminiscent of Joe Stalin, foreign intelligence, economic assessment and even basic science must not contradict Rovian spin or fundamentalist prophecy.

American education, once the envy of the world, is in shambles, with global students now turning away for the first time. America's moral prestige, never higher than after September 11, 2001, has been trashed. No US president has ever been so personally hated.

And never has a would-be Third World dictator stood more ready to shred our Constitution.

Stalin once quipped that power resides not with those who cast the votes, but with those that count them.

Bush may try to follow Stalin's (and brother Jeb's) lead by stealing the 2004 election, as in 2000. Or he may try to seize power like Pinochet did on 9/11/73 in a repressive crusade against convenient terrorism.

But one thing is certain: if Shrub's hyped-up power play succeeds, the beheading of America will be complete.

HARVEY WASSERMAN'S HISTORY OF THE US is available at www.harveywasserman.com. He is co-author (with Bob Fitrakis) of GEORGE W. BUSH VERSUS THE SUPERPOWER OF PEACE (www.freepress.org).

Wow sounds like your taking classes from Jane Fonda....

[Thiebear]

Seems only Fair to compair our President who is trying to Stop Terrorism and said he is willing to lose his election in the process to say:

Mass Murderers and Stalin who killed something like 20 million people...

If you actually believe that as opposed to just posting it to show some of the black helicopter "Repairman Jack" type books then you need to remove the aluminum foil and come back to us....

[Riggo-toni]

Harding was not "astonishingly corrupt"! In fact, imho, he was one of the greatest presidents of the 20th century (no, I'm not kidding!!) The teapot dome scandal happened behind his back, and when he found out, he had a heart-attack screaming at the staff member behind it. As a venal land grab, it was no worse than, say, Whitewater. But our "historians" - namely journalists writing well after the fact who were anti-business and chummy with FDR - rewrote history. Harding cut federal spending by 40%, thus ushering in the most prosperous decade in American history until Hoover screwed it up with his meddling and outrageous tax increases.

This article is absolute b.s. It's the left-wing version of McCarthyism - our opponent wants to turn the country into a totalitarian state (in this case facism instead of communism).

Also, Allende was not the saint the left-wing douchebags like this guy try to portray him as. He was already jailing and killing political opponents when the US aided the Pinochet coup.

Jonathan, maybe you ought to study history a bit more instead of swallowing a party line. If these aritcles you post are any indication, you are clearly an extraordinarily gullible person.

[Oldskool]

Originally posted by riggo-toni
Jonathan, maybe you ought to study history a bit more instead of swallowing a party line. If these aritcles you post are any indication, you are clearly an extraordinarily gullible person.

What this guy needs to do is go live abroad, hell anywhere and see what liberties he has as an American citizen.

Go live in a totalitarian state anywhere in this world, come back adn I dare you to call GW a dictator. Yeah alot of social liberties have been scaled back during this war on terror, and yes it disturbes me to my core, but sometimes sacrifices need to be made.

[GoSkins561]

Originally posted by Jonathan
Use of "terror" as an excuse for totalitarian control;
Official secrecy for its own sake;
Seizure of power in contempt of free elections;
Totalitarian militarism;
Abuse of human rights and liberties;
Love of the death penalty;
Hatred of a free press;
Imprisonment without legal recourse;
Widespread torture;
Brazen theft of public billions;
"Free market" smokescreens for corporate domination;
Taxing the poor to benefit the rich;
Hatred of labor unions;
Decimation of the natural environment;
Assaulting elected leaders anywhere, anytime;
Contempt for international treaties;
Reactionary alliance with right wing church groups;
Contempt for women's rights;
Manipulating divisions of race and class.

These are essentially the values of the Bush Administration. Remember the Patriot Act? the obsessive secrecy? The invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq? Abu Ghraib (or Abu Grub as Bush put it in his TV address which the main networks didn't bother to cover), Guantanamo and hundreds of illegal imprisonments? Halliburton and the other companies set up by Cheney et al in no bid contracts in Iraq? The reversal of budget surpluses with a staggering tax cut for the wealthiest of the wealthy? The abandonment of critical international treaties like the ABM treaty? The devastation of our environment through dramatic rollbacks of a huge number of regulations and unprecedented reversals of decades of progress in environmental law? The refusal to sign on to the extremely modest Kyoto treaty despite the dire threat of global warming? The siding with Israel and abandonment of any pretense of even handedness in the Middle East policy? The world has been destabilized by this administration in a very dangerous way. Our allies are frightened of us. Is this the direction you want America to go in?

Why yes it is the way I want America to go, How are we suppose to prevent another 9-11 if we can not keep an eye on suspected terrorists. Would you like to see several thousands of your fellow americans die in the name of hatred again? The hundreds of " illegal imprisonments" are considered to be enemy combatants and affiliates of a terrorist regime. Would you like to see them in our flight schools learning to fly planes, so we can experiance another 9-11? In regards to Haliburton and Bechtel rebuilding Iraq, would you like to see the work and revenue that is generated from rebuilding Iraq go to a French owned engineering frim. These 2 companys are the largest of their type in the United States and are the only companies capable of rebuilding Iraq in a timely fashion.

Unfortunatley we have incured a deficit, the cost of war is not cheap, we will rebound and if the United States is a safer place who gives a ***** about a deficit. Would you rather live in a struggle or worry about terrorist blowing themselves up in your town? The environment I love the outdoors and appreciate nature, why is it okay for us to destroy another countries environment for oil and not ours. If this is nt a double standard from left wing freaks like yourself I do not know what is. When can we start drilling the Alaska Pipeline. Finally, destabilized if we would not have put our foot down and ran away from what happened to us on 9-11, the terrorist would be ruling our country thru fear and destruction of our free society. What allies are frightened of us? The french and the germans do you consider them allies? after we have saved their asses several times they turn their backs on us in a time of need? All i can say is COWARDS, screw them and do not buy French and German products.

America is heading in the right direction and your statements are insane, I have voted democrat before, however it is left wing whackos like yourself that are destroying what the democratic party has stood for in the past. It is also the reason that you will not see a democratic president with in the next 5 years.

[Destino]

Hello, I'm Chilean and know first hand what Pinochet is all about. Bush is no Pinochet, he's a right winger that at times may support things that seem extreme but let's be real here people, he's not planning a power grab nor does our system make such a move easy to pull off.

Remember Pinochet didn't use "terror" to make his power play. He used faked shortages. It's no secret people were paid off to burn their crops or throw their livestock in the river, my family actually witnessed the latter occuring. He used money, some of which came from the US, to exagerate the threat of a socialist old fool and to knock the nation into a situation where a power grab was possible.

The conditions in the US are not ripe for such an event, nor will they be in even if we do get hit by another terror attack. Americans, and that includes Bush, value their freedom. It's important that even when elections come along we don't make the mistake of losing perspective on reality. We debate wire taps and tax cuts here in the US.....not whether RFK stadium could easily be turned into a torture facilty like the national stadium in Santiago, or how many young men in college we could make disappear before the world starts asking questions.

Most americans including Bush and his administration want whats best for america but differ only in what that best is. I think all of us GOP and DEM alike understand that what's best is for this nation to stay free. There is no Pinochet here.

[thew]

Bush has had his shot. He's had almost four years of cart blanch in Washington. He's gotten whatever he asked for.


tax cut #1
tax cut #2
tax cut #3
Iraq War
Afghanistan War
Patriot Act I
Suspension of Constitutional rights for suspected American terrorists
Suspension of Constitutional rights for suspected Foreign terrorists


The Suppreme Court is still spineless but the Democrates in Congress are starting to fight back. Howard Dean gave them a little back bone and now they're in the fight.

Republicans in Congress lead by traditional Conservatives are also fighting back. They're putting up a fight for what the Republican party stands for now in Congress. They don't want his latest budget which once again delivers increases in spending and tax cuts for the fourth unprecidented budget.

Bush is a bad bad President and the entire country is waking up to it. Don't think pandering to the dogmatic nationalists is going to work a second time, not when you have a track record of lieing and abusing the truth to further your own personal agenda...

Kerry in 2004, cause at least he isn't a crook

[turdfurguson]

Suspension of Constitutional rights for suspected American terrorists

Suspension of Constitutional rights for suspected Foreign terrorists

The only right a terrorist should have is the right to a fair trial, thats it...

[troyster]

Jonathan,
Especially with a title that contains "Bush the Beheader," did you expect anyone (except maybe Thew, chomerics, and Destino) to take that article seriously? I halfway suspect you might just be a troll. Just a guess from the two unbelieveable articles you posted today. This 'article' doesn't even warrant a serious rebuttal.

[Destino]

Originally posted by troyster
did you expect anyone (except maybe Thew, chomerics, and Destino) to take that article seriously?

I'm sorry but what the hell is that supposed to mean? Did you read my reply? I'm guessing no.

[AJWatson3]

he's already got you pigeon-holed as a far-left leaning commie... what's the point in reading your posts?

[Mufumonk]

Originally posted by G-Train

No doubt this person also believes that there are black helicopters flying over his home, spying on every move he makes.

Those helicopters do exist though! :D

[Jonathan]

This is an exerpted part of an article that represents my views on what is happening with the Bush adminstration. (it is from Share International magazine)

The ultimate triumph


When a nation comes to adulthood, to maturity, it relates to other nations in a completely different way than hitherto. It begins to respect the Rule of Law, which binds all nations together in mutual responsibility and need. The sign of a growing maturity is precisely this respect for the laws which men have found necessary to living together in peace. From time to time, a nation may feel powerful enough to ignore the law which irks its ambition to dominate, and to make war despite the warnings of restraint from its friends. Thus it is today that the United States, now, alone, a ‘superpower’, vexes and worries the people of more mature nations who have grown to see the folly of unilateral action outside the Rule of Law. The young and over-confident ‘superpower’, flexing its muscles, will overreach itself, and the sooner this happens the safer for the world. Already a steadily growing chaos exacts due cost in loss of life, both American and Iraqi. The seal of Pandora’s Box has been broken and from it has stepped a monster, out of control. To be sure, the US administration wear as brave a face as they can muster, but behind the scenes, they are worried indeed, and seek desperately a less than ignominious method of withdrawal. Meanwhile, the defeated Iraqi army fights a guerrilla war with some success, while religious groups, seizing their opportunity, increase the tension with calls for civil war. Thus, the paramount adventure of the American President, designed to demonstrate the invincibility of the United States, has little to show for its efforts and very much still to lose.
Folly
When, at last, the US Government sees for itself the folly of this reckless and unnecessary war, it will not, of course, admit this to the world. Rather, it will seek to gain the support of the United Nations to extricate itself from this embarrassing blunder, and, if possible, to lay the blame elsewhere.

Suffers
When, among nations, the Rule of Law is ignored, the whole world suffers. Thus, today, the tension which has accompanied this futile demonstration of military strength affects millions, innocent of all terrorist action or mayhem. The world is struggling now with epidemics of all kinds as the human immune system breaks down under the stress.....[end of exerpt]

by the Master --, through Benjamin Creme April 2004

[Tarhog]

Destino, I have to give his due. Although I disagree with him quite often, he knows a pile of horse**** when he steps in it. Thats called 'Intellectual Honesty'. I point this out because some here don't recognize the difference between passion and diatribe. I do.

Dogmatic Nationalists = People thew disagrees with

As others have hinted at, anyone who posts an article with 'Bush the Beheader' in its title can't possibly expect to be taken seriously, by guys on EITHER side of the aisle. Thats inflammatory, wrong, and is a pretty twisted dance around some very unfortunate recent events. Not funny or clever.

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

Better a Pinochet who prevented Chile from becoming a Communist satellite and export of Red Terrorism than a Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin, Ho or any number of Communist dictators.

Not to defend all of Pinochet's actions, for many of them were clearly above necessitated acts. But the fact is, when your country is on the verge of ripping itself apart in a civil war and possibly on the verge of being a vassal state to Cuba or the Soviets, you do what you gotta do to protect it.


But I know for sure Destino is going to kill me on that one. And I say that with respect, not derision.

[thew]

turdfurguson
Suspension of Constitutional rights for suspected American terrorists

Suspension of Constitutional rights for suspected Foreign terrorists

The only right a terrorist should have is the right to a fair trial, thats it...


Unfortunately for you and Mr. Bush the AMERICAN constitution has the presumption of innocence. That means folks get trials before we convict them of crimes. Read it baby, it's right there in the constitution's bill of rights! No need to hurt your brain and read the entire document it's right there in the first ten amendments. It's one of the golden oldies!!


freedom of speech
religion
the press
peaceful assembly
rights to jury trials


torture and years of physical and mental abuse to get at a confession doesn't a terrorist make. Not like Mr. Ashcroft and Mr. Bush don't have a track record of arresting and torturing the wrong folks!!..... Can't save America by sacrificing our most fundimental principals!! Hell save it, Bush is in the process of surrendering it... The moron!!

Kerry in 2004 because at least he believes in our Bill of Rights

[Chopper Dave]

The first thing I thought when I saw this article was, "Oh no, poor Jonathan. He doesn't know the ways of the Extremeskins Tailgate. He'll have to learn the hard way like I did..."

Don't worry Jonathan. They'll take you down from the cross sooner or later. Just don't say the words "dodge" and "draft" too loudly, because I did, and now I have two *******s.

PS - I may be liberal, but all this comparing Bush to dictators is bullsh*t.

[Destino]

Originally posted by Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin
But I know for sure Destino is going to kill me on that one. And I say that with respect, not derision.

Rawr! :)

Pinochet had a positive effect, but his actions were not needed. Truth is Chile elected a socialist because abuses against the poor had gone too far. What chile needed was a capitalist to do the right thing, sadly there was none among them that could put doing what's right ahead of doing what kept them rich and the poor poor.

Chile now is thriving and the economy is growing. College enrollment is up and Pinochet lost his immunity on Monday.

[thew]

PS - I may be liberal, but all this comparing Bush to dictators is bullsh*t.


Bush has been the most powerful president since Rosevelt. Bush has controlled both houses, and the supreme court. During his term to an extent no sitting president has since WWII. Checks and Balances put in to curb his power also drop away in times of war. Even in Wars which Bush has electively decided to wage.

We are witnessing the closest thing to an American Dictator America has ever seen. It would have been unthinkable for an American President to uniltaterally decide to violate the constitutional rights of American citizens before Bush. It would have been unthinkable for an American president to stiff arm court orders as bush's administration has done.

I don't believe Bush is Pinochet mostly because he is about to get voted out, but just as clearly he's the closest thing America has ever had. A President who lost the popular vote and barely won election unilaterally takes us into an elected war.....

The comparison is fair even if flawed.

[thew]

Pinochet had a positive effect


Pinochet also had death squads assassinate his enemies all over the world including in downtown DC. Pinochet was a first class criminal. The fact he was pro America and did us favors shouldn't be defense for all the crap he pulled and people he murdered.

[jaydean]

dear redskins friends,

there's enough pain and suffering in this world without finger pointing and negative naysaying. CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG? i'm so tired of all the pessimistic stuff and anti bush this and that. i for one believe that during war time and crisis time, we need to band together as one nation under GOD. i think we need to band together and stick behind mr. bush, mr. clinton, mr. nixon, or whomever is in office, whether its' a he or she or a democrat or republican. by sticking together behind our leader, we come off as a confident, concrete nation and that's a great way to be portrayed in the other parts of the world.

[Chopper Dave]

Originally posted by thew


Bush has been the most powerful president since Rosevelt. Bush has controlled both houses, and the supreme court. During his term to an extent no sitting president has since WWII. Checks and Balances put in to curb his power also drop away in times of war. Even in Wars which Bush has electively decided to wage.

We are witnessing the closest thing to an American Dictator America has ever seen. It would have been unthinkable for an American President to uniltaterally decide to violate the constitutional rights of American citizens before Bush. It would have been unthinkable for an American president to stiff arm court orders as bush's administration has done.

I don't believe Bush is Pinochet mostly because he is about to get voted out, but just as clearly he's the closest thing America has ever had. A President who lost the popular vote and barely won election unilaterally takes us into an elected war.....

The comparison is fair even if flawed.


First of all, no way in hell Kerry wins. Sorry. I'd like it, but it's not going to happen, pre-election polls be damned. Second of all, yeah, he's systematically stripping our rights and taking over the government, but to call him even close to a dictator is just nonsensical. A dictator could redirect half of our GNP to a personal account at a bank on Wall Street and we couldn't do anything about it. If he was a dictator, he could have flipped the UN the bird, raped Iraq of its oil, and called it the 51st state. Things of that nature are in the realm of a dictator. To believe Bush could ever to harness that kind of power is just silly. Come on, I don't like Bush very much, but he's no dictator. Just a right-winger contradicting himself but adopting the liberal ideology of big government.

[thew]

DCogan1820 saved my baby

First of all, no way in hell Kerry wins. Sorry. I'd like it, but it's not going to happen, pre-election polls be damned.


You could be right, Kerry isn't running much of a campagne. I think he's going to have to put a vision out their to actually win the election and he hasn't yet. Just as clearly though the country doesn't know anything about Kerry and he's running neck and neck with Bush right now. Bush has such high disapproval ratings that all Kerry has to do to win is not look like a doofus. Until he actually comes out and defines himself though the race is a toss up.

Remember though before the debate Carter lead Reagan by a point in the polls. Bush isn't a good debater. So that will probable be Kerry's best chance to take the election. Kerry will define himself at the DNC. You're right it's still a horse race, closer than it should be, but close doesn't favor the incumbant.




Second of all, yeah, he's systematically stripping our rights and taking over the government, but to call him even close to a dictator is just nonsensical.

[1]A dictator could redirect half of our GNP to a personal account at a bank on Wall Street and we couldn't do anything about it.
[2]If he was a dictator, he could have flipped the UN the bird,
[3]raped Iraq of its oil, and
[4]called it the 51st state.

Things of that nature are in the realm of a dictator. To believe Bush could ever to harness that kind of power is just silly. Come on, I don't like Bush very much, but he's no dictator. Just a right-winger contradicting himself but adopting the liberal ideology of big government.



[1] I would say that Bush has granted many sweet heart deals to his cronies an has certainly grown the federal budget by almost half a trillion dollars excluding the war spending. All that money isn't going into public education!!

[2] Where have you been, he did flip the UN the bird.. He's just going back to them now because he doesn't have the credibility in Iraq to set up a temporary government.

[3] He's got Iraq pumping at a higher rate than at any other time in their history so I'm not sure of your point here. He's not taking the money but American oil companies many from Texas and huge Bush contributers are the ones manning the pumps.

[4] Well 3 out of 4 isn't bad...


I think Bush has had almost FDR like powers in his administration. He's been the most powerful president since WWII. He's done a lot of what you would attribute to a dictator but you're right saying he's nowhere near a dictator.

A dictator doesn't stand for re-election. Bush is. And as I said, Bush is going to loose.. The dude has just failed too big to get re-elected....

Bush Failures..

Economy Net loss of jobs first time since Hoover and the great depression
Needless war in Iraq
Loosing needless war in Iraq due to poor planning for aftermath
Loosing war on terror due to diverting resources to Iraq
Failed to catch Bin Laudin an old man living in a cave who needs dialisis has out witted Bush and almost a trillion dollars worth of resources.
Rolling back America's civil liberties.
One out of every seven manufaturing jobs has been lost during Bush's first term.
Failure to enforce sane trade policies with China resulting in a 50 billion dollar quarterly trade deficite..


Just goes on and on....

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

We are witnessing the closest thing to an American Dictator America has ever seen. It would have been unthinkable for an American President to uniltaterally decide to violate the constitutional rights of American citizens before Bush. It would have been unthinkable for an American president to stiff arm court orders as bush's administration has done.

Really? Are you aware of why the great stain maker lied under oath about Monica lewinski? He lied so as to not show a pattern of behaviour, or an abuse of his office, to deny Paula Jones of her constitutional right to due process in court, but as I read your post, I can obviously see the misunderstanding, you confused Bush's name with Clinton's.

[thew]

Clinton got a little booty on the side and he lied about it to the FBI and in open court. Purgury which is a felony certainly raises to the level of a misdomenor the constitutuion calls grounds for impreachment. The fact that he showed a track record of attacking women who worked for him and


[1] Turning unpaid positions into six figure incomes in at least two cases if they kept quiet about it.
[2] Ending their careers if they blabed in at least one case that I can remember.


Certainly Clinton deserved impeachment. Now set that asside he did a bang up job as President on the economy, balancing the budget, foreign policy and security; if you can disregard the whole sex crazed, sexual abuse bibo erruptions.


Bush he's a failure across the board. He can't point to anything in my book where he's a success. I think he lost his one claim as a moral man by lieing and taking the country into a needless war. His economy has a net loss of jobs for the first time since Hoover and the depression. Sure Corporate earning are up 60% but personal income is only up 2%. The Budget is way out of whack 500 billion heavyer than under Clinton. The federal payrol is 400,000 jobs heavier. And he's taken us into an expensive elective war which is likely to end in defeat, more terrorism abroad as their is now, and civil war in the most strategic region in the world. Bush has lost 1 out of seven manufacturing jobs. I can just go on and on......

I did not vote for Clinton either election. I really detested Clinton when he went out of office. But I would vote for Bill Clinton in a minute if he was up against Bush. Bush is that Bad!!

Kerry in 2004, A leader for a change

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

Originally posted by thew
Clinton got a little booty on the side and he lied about it to the FBI and in open court. Purgury which is a felony certainly raises to the level of a misdomenor the constitutuion calls grounds for impreachment. The fact that he showed a track record of attacking women who worked for him and


[1] Turning unpaid positions into six figure incomes in at least two cases if they kept quiet about it.
[2] Ending their careers if they blabed in at least one case that I can remember.


Certainly Clinton deserved impeachment. Now set that asside he did a bang up job as President on the economy, balancing the budget, foreign policy and security; if you can disregard the whole sex crazed, sexual abuse bibo erruptions.


Bush he's a failure across the board. He can't point to anything in my book where he's a success. I think he lost his one claim as a moral man by lieing and taking the country into a needless war. His economy has a net loss of jobs for the first time since Hoover and the depression. Sure Corporate earning are up 60% but personal income is only up 2%. The Budget is way out of whack 500 billion heavyer than under Clinton. The federal payrol is 400,000 jobs heavier. And he's taken us into an expensive elective war which is likely to end in defeat, more terrorism abroad as their is now, and civil war in the most strategic region in the world. Bush has lost 1 out of seven manufacturing jobs. I can just go on and on......

I did not vote for Clinton either election. I really detested Clinton when he went out of office. But I would vote for Bill Clinton in a minute if he was up against Bush. Bush is that Bad!!

Kerry in 2004, A leader for a change

Do you believe a president is responsible for an economy he inherit's?

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

Thew is the biggest misrepresenter on this site.

The man has a Ronald Reagan photo in his signature to complete the illusion, but he takes almost no conservative positions. Even if he were a paleo, he'd hardly be talking about Kerry for President. He'd be talking Constitutionalist Party or something.

Enough of his lies. Thew, stop with the falsehoods. Take Reagan out of your sig.

[THE HAMMER'IN HOG]

Originally posted by Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin
Thew is the biggest misrepresenter on this site.

The man has a Ronald Reagan photo in his signature to complete the illusion, but he takes almost no conservative positions. Even if he were a paleo, he'd hardly be talking about Kerry for President. He'd be talking Constitutionalist Party or something.

Enough of his lies. Thew, stop with the falsehoods. Take Reagan out of your sig.

Good job ghost, I have been wondering that myself, i thought I missed something.

[Riggo-toni]

Originally posted by thew


Bush has been the most powerful president since Rosevelt. Bush has controlled both houses, and the supreme court. During his term to an extent no sitting president has since WWII. Checks and Balances put in to curb his power also drop away in times of war. Even in Wars which Bush has electively decided to wage.

We are witnessing the closest thing to an American Dictator America has ever seen. It would have been unthinkable for an American President to uniltaterally decide to violate the constitutional rights of American citizens before Bush. It would have been unthinkable for an American president to stiff arm court orders as bush's administration has done.

I don't believe Bush is Pinochet mostly because he is about to get voted out, but just as clearly he's the closest thing America has ever had. A President who lost the popular vote and barely won election unilaterally takes us into an elected war.....

The comparison is fair even if flawed.

Geez, I don't even know where to begin here. Thew, I get tired of arguing here, because unless I spell everything out in agonizing detail, you try and run away with anything not explicitly stated.

But the most egregiously ignorant statement of your post:
"It would have been unthinkable for an American President to uniltaterally decide to violate the constitutional rights of American citizens before Bush. "

Uh, ever heard of Abraham Lincoln?? You know, that guy with the monument downtown? He used military tribunals in lieu of the court system, and SUSPENDED THE WRIT OF HABEAS CORPUS. Adams, whom you tirelessly defended in another thread, suspended free speech under the Alien and Sedition Acts. Of course, you believe he was just a victim (Oh, and if I ever get around to it, I'll respond to your last round of errors in that thread). FDR re-instituted tribunals for a group of Nazi saboteurs, and clearly violated the constitutional rights of Japanese Americans when he signed AN EXECUTIVE ORDER to send them off packing to internment camps. Nothing Bush has done even remotely approaches any of this.

What exactly is an "elected war"? I've been trying to decipher that last sentence, but all I keep thinking is... :wtf:

Also, Clinton had both houses when elected, lest we forget. Of course, he screwed things up so badly the first 2 years of office that he lost the house for the first time in 40 years. Likewise, if people were as disillusioned/angry with Bush as you suggest, how was he able to actually increase GOP leads in mid-term elections - something almost unprecedented. The Senate does not have a super-majority; therefore the Dems could easily filibuster any outrageously objectionable move by Bush. Bush is not nearly as omnipotently reckless as you seem to have been deluded into thinking.

I am no fan of W., primarily because he's far too liberal on domestic issues (esp. spending), and too conservative on social issues. Both stances are in direct contrast to my Libertarian beliefs. Nevertheless, this kind of crap is just way too over the top. (And for the record, I am even-handed and defend Clinton when people go overboard on their puritanical obsessions over his sex life.)

[Destino]

Originally posted by thew


Pinochet also had death squads assassinate his enemies all over the world including in downtown DC. Pinochet was a first class criminal. The fact he was pro America and did us favors shouldn't be defense for all the crap he pulled and people he murdered.

The "positive" effect I was talking about was in respect to the economy, which is often used to justify his actions. You don't have to remind me of Pinochet's evil, my family knows all about it being that we lived in Santiago at the time.

[Riggo-toni]

Whom did Pinochet assassinate in DC? I'm not arguing here, that's just an accusation I've never heard and want to make sure it's not one pulled out of thin air. I'm not denying he had death squads, since that is of course true, but I've never heard them extending so far outside of his country. Please provide a source for that info.

Odd how the left somehow manages to heap such adulation on Peron and such scorn for Pinochet. And why is Castro called the Cuban President, while Pinochet is called the former dictator. Don't get me wrong; I'm certainly not defending Pinochet!!! It just amazes me the double-standard the self-loathing American left espouses.

[turdfurguson]

Originally posted by thew


You could be right, Kerry isn't running much of a campagne. I think he's going to have to put a vision out their to actually win the election and he hasn't yet. Just as clearly though the country doesn't know anything about Kerry and he's running neck and neck with Bush right now. Bush has such high disapproval ratings that all Kerry has to do to win is not look like a doofus. Until he actually comes out and defines himself though the race is a toss up.

Remember though before the debate Carter lead Reagan by a point in the polls. Bush isn't a good debater. So that will probable be Kerry's best chance to take the election. Kerry will define himself at the DNC. You're right it's still a horse race, closer than it should be, but close doesn't favor the incumbant.





[1] I would say that Bush has granted many sweet heart deals to his cronies an has certainly grown the federal budget by almost half a trillion dollars excluding the war spending. All that money isn't going into public education!!

[2] Where have you been, he did flip the UN the bird.. He's just going back to them now because he doesn't have the credibility in Iraq to set up a temporary government.
[3] He's got Iraq pumping at a higher rate than at any other time in their history so I'm not sure of your point here. He's not taking the money but American oil companies many from Texas and huge Bush contributers are the ones manning the pumps.

[4] Well 3 out of 4 isn't bad...


I think Bush has had almost FDR like powers in his administration. He's been the most powerful president since WWII. He's done a lot of what you would attribute to a dictator but you're right saying he's nowhere near a dictator.

A dictator doesn't stand for re-election. Bush is. And as I said, Bush is going to loose.. The dude has just failed too big to get re-elected....

Bush Failures..

Economy Net loss of jobs first time since Hoover and the great depression
Needless war in Iraq
Loosing needless war in Iraq due to poor planning for aftermath
Loosing war on terror due to diverting resources to Iraq
Failed to catch Bin Laudin an old man living in a cave who needs dialisis has out witted Bush and almost a trillion dollars worth of resources.
Rolling back America's civil liberties.
One out of every seven manufaturing jobs has been lost during Bush's first term.
Failure to enforce sane trade policies with China resulting in a 50 billion dollar quarterly trade deficite..


Just goes on and on....
Hey Bright Boy why don't you run for President? Or do you just like to talk shyiat? No president is or will ever be perfect. And if all you look for is failure that is all you will find. And half of of the your so-called failures remains to be seen...Whata moroon

[Skins24]

Have you met Henry yet?

[Henry]

TF, I don't know why you felt the need to dredge up a week-old 40-post thread only to offer up a three line response.

This thread would not have made it past the first page had it been posted this week. And it won't see page four now.

Navy, I'm not sure where to start with you. Since Friday I have seen you note how unfortuate it is that terrorists won't attack the west coast, how liberals are terrorists, that the only people who didn't like Reagan were masterbating teenagers, and that you are more American than other Americans. That's just off the top of my head. And all the while you are condecsending to be nice for a whole week? I need more, and I need longer.

I am trying REAL hard to meet you halfway here. But very soon respect for your seniority is not going to be enough. I need your help here. We all do. Ok?