View Full Version : OT- Afghan convoy hit: this could be a PR disaster
December-21st-2001, 11:00 AM
Friday December 21 4:27 PM ET
U.S. Hits Convoy in Afghanistan, Locals Fear Error
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. military AC-130 gunships and Navy jet fighters attacked and destroyed a convoy in Afghanistan (news - web sites) believed to be carrying Taliban leadership, Pentagon (news - web sites) officials said on Friday.
But reports from the region said U.S. warplanes had bombed a convoy of Afghan tribal elders on their way to Kabul to attend the inauguration of the interim government, killing about 65 people, after locals misinformed the U.S. military.
The Pentagon said it hit its intended target after receiving intelligence reports.
``There is no doubt in their (U.S. military's Central Command) mind that they hit what they wanted to hit and that it was the bad guys,'' Marine Lt. Col. Dave Lapan, a Pentagon spokesman, told Reuters.
``It was Taliban leadership. Central Command went back and looked at everything that they did and they hit exactly what they wanted to hit,'' Lapan said.
He said the air strikes occurred at about 11 a.m. EST on Thursday, about 25 miles west of Khost.
Local residents were quoted earlier by the Pakistan-based Afghan Islamic Press (AIP) as saying supporters of the incoming leader, Hamid Karzai, were attacked after they left a tribal meeting en route for Kabul.
They said informers apparently told U.S. contacts they were pro-Taliban. The AIP said the 65 dead included tribal elders and former mujahideen commanders going to Kabul to attend Saturday's inauguration.
In Washington, Marine Gen. Peter Pace, vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said the air strikes destroyed a convoy of 10 to 12 vehicles near the town of Khost southwest of the mountainous Tora Bora region, where U.S. special operations forces are hunting for Osama bin Laden (news - web sites).
``The vehicles were destroyed, the people were killed and the compound from which they left was destroyed,'' Pace told reporters at a Pentagon briefing.
Pace declined to go into detail on where the intelligence originated.
``I'd like not to address the specific indicators that caused us to strike that particular convoy,'' he said.
``But the intelligence that we gathered at the time indicated to us that this was in fact leadership, and we struck the leadership, as we will do next time we get that kind of intelligence.''
December-21st-2001, 12:13 PM
As someone who is Jewish, I'd rather we avoid the whole name calling thing. It's really not appropriate, and I'm sure it makes some Muslim people on this board rather uncomfortable. Don't get me wrong, Bin Laden, Al Qaeda, the Taliban, etc. need to go down HARD, but we don't need general epithets thrown into the mix. In my mind, it is totally counter to achieving the goal before us.
OT is cool, but this board should be open and friendly to all who come, until certain individuals (read: certain "visitors") prove they are not deserving of what it has to offer.
[http://www.extremeskins.com/ubb/edited.gif by TheChosenOne on December 21, 2001.]
December-21st-2001, 12:25 PM
What is the deal with those towels anyway? I'd hate to see what is underneath there... whew!
December-21st-2001, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by MikeB:
What is the deal with those towels anyway? I'd hate to see what is underneath there... whew!
The difference between the ones with the towels on their heads, and the ones with the dots on their forheads is this :
The ones with the dots on their foreheads are "push start".
The ones with the towels on their heads are "pull start".
December-21st-2001, 08:36 PM
Sheesh, thank God you guys don't represent the majority of Americans...or, at least, I like to think most of us aren't xenophobic racists such as you guys...
God Bless AMERICA...
December-22nd-2001, 05:56 AM
For the record Baculus, a religion is not a race. Jay Walker was a towel head too. And he's a home-grown American boy. You do realize that more than a single race represents a religion, do you not? And if you do not, perhaps you should try not lumping a people into a single religion while trying to prove you aren't, in fact, racist yourself.
Doom is in the box.
December-22nd-2001, 06:09 AM
The Taliban has won the toss and has chosen to recieve.
December-22nd-2001, 06:23 AM
No, Art, the use of "towel-heads" is usually used to describe "Arabs" or anyone that comes from the Middle-East area. So, the term IS a racial term as well, and NOT one merely based upon religion. The term "towel-head" isn't even accurate towards middle-easterners/Arabs, nor Muslims. Anyways, anyone that uses the term "towel-head" has a tendency to lump "Arabs" and "Muslims" together--to these ignorant individuals, they are one and the same.
This bigoted term can't even be properly used against Afghans. For example, many of the Afghans do not even wear a turban, and instead wear a "Pakol," the hat worn by some ethnics groups, includng tajiks. (This hat was outlawed by the Taliban, and worn by the late Massoud.) In fact, many Muslims do not even wear turbans, but often simple caps instead. Of course, most ignorant people wouldn't know this, and lump everyone from the region together.
Oh, BTW, you guys DO know Sikhs wear turbans as well, and they are neither from the Middle-East nor Muslim?
Sorry, Art, but weak attempt at turning the subject matter back on me. *I* can discuss, and try to educate, why the term is BS. The only thing you can do is, well, defend the use of the term. (Which I found laughable.) Maybe you should look at your own bigotry before suggesting I re-examine my position as well.
If you want to get a little education, try going to [URL=http://www.afgha.com...]www.afgha.com
[http://www.extremeskins.com/ubb/edited.gif by Baculus on December 22, 2001.]
December-22nd-2001, 07:10 AM
Baculus, you wrote...
"No, Art, the use of "towel-heads" is usually used to describe "Arabs" or anyone that comes from the Middle-East area."
According to you, for certain. According to ND, perhaps he was referencing something else entirely. I see you took your understanding of the slur and felt it appropriate to make everyone recognize how you characterize a race of people.
"So, the term IS a racial term as well, and NOT one merely based upon religion. The term "towel-head" isn't even accurate towards middle-easterners/Arabs, nor Muslims."
It can be used as a racial term. There's no question about that. You've shown that precisely and accurately.
"Anyways, anyone that uses the term "towel-head" has a tendency to lump "Arabs" and "Muslims" together--to these ignorant individuals, they are one and the same."
A troglodyte is not necessarily ignorant. He is person considered to be reclusive, reactionary, out of date, or brutish. But, ignorance isn't a part of that. ND is a lovable troglodyte.
"This bigoted term can't even be properly used against Afghans."
Not sure anyone did. However, it can be used to describe the Taliban http://www.extremeskins.com/ubb/smile.gif.
"For example, many of the Afghans do not even wear a turban, and instead wear a "Pakol," the hat worn by some ethnics groups, includng tajiks. (This hat was outlawed by the Taliban, and worn by the late Massoud.)"
"In fact, many Muslims do not even wear turbans, but often simple caps instead. Of course, most ignorant people wouldn't know this, and lump everyone from the region together."
Yet, you did lump them together. ND specifically wrote about "those" towel heads. He didn't write about all of them as towel heads. You chose to characterize the comments as racist, which in fact shows your own tendencies for lumping all people into a lump and diminishing them with racist tendencies. In fact, ND, to me, was talking about those towel-heads. Not all of them as towel-heads. But, hyper-sensitive liberal elites like to be reactionary, out of date and brutish themselves when seeing anything they do not directly understand or care to take the time to ask about. They, you, prefer labels. I'm guessing you're thinking he's a white guy in an Ivory Tower casting derogatory comments toward every single living creature that isn't a WASP. Again, assuming the truth to that, it would show you are not willing to listen, but, you prefer to label.
"Oh, BTW, you guys DO know Sikhs wear turbans as well, and they are neither from the Middle-East nor Muslim?"
And, you do know that all Muslims aren't a single race, correct? Meaning racism is an incorrect aspersion to cast.
"Sorry, Art, but weak attempt at turning the subject matter back on me. *I* can discuss, and try to educate, why the term is BS."
Sure, you can. But, you prefer to just call people a racist, as if you believe everyone wearing a towel on his head is a single race. That seems out of date to me. A little troglodyte in you too it appears http://www.extremeskins.com/ubb/smile.gif.
"The only thing you can do is, well, defend the use of the term. (Which I found laughable.) Maybe you should look at your own bigotry before suggesting I re-examine my position as well."
I didn't defend the term, though I thought Mick's joke was pretty funny. I told you the term doesn't reflect a race, it reflects a wide range of races and the racist tendencies you've shown in describing why you think it's racist tends to illuminate you here quite brightly. You associate a term with a people. In your mind, one equals the other. You might be an apologist for your narrow views, but, that you have them is clear. And, certainly, I'm glad you don't speak for the rest of us that automatically equates a word or term with a race, and prefers to focus on the message and meaning, rather than reactionary and brutish contrary comments http://www.extremeskins.com/ubb/smile.gif. Ok, that's a lie, I like reactionary and brutish too.
"If you want to get a little education, try going to [URL=http://www.afgha.com...]www.afgha.com"
Thanks for the link. You remind me of my Aunt Lois. Sweet, dear, well meaning woman she is. My sister dates an Dutch Malaysian gent and we were having hobo stew in Michigan, which is simply a boiled dinner with meat and potatos and carrots and the like. And she brought him his plate and frowned and said, "I bet you'd probably like some rice with that, wouldn't you?"
Other than being the most hilarious thing I've ever witnessed, despite the well-meaning offering based upon her understanding of a people, my Aunt is a racist through and through. You remind me of my Aunt.
Doom is in the box.
December-22nd-2001, 07:12 AM
There is still great anger over the WTC/Pentagon murders. Most of it is going to be directed at Middle Eastern folks...and there's good d*mn reason for that.
I'll fess up to the fact that I frequently use the term 'rag-head' to refer to Middle Eastern folks (and Sikhs as well). I'm not particularly proud of that, but I don't intend to apologize for it, either.
Perhaps the flip side of being racist on this one, Baculus, is being sanctimonious. Feel free to be holier than me. I'm afraid I lost my halo a long time ago.
December-22nd-2001, 07:45 AM
I hereby vote for a move to the bleachers.
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