Social Security

[December90]

Received this e-mail and thought it worth sharing.


Franklin Roosevelt, a Democrat, introduced the Social Security
(FICA) Program He promised:

1.) That participation in the Program would be completely voluntary,

2.) That the participants would only have to pay 1% of the first $1,400 of their annual income into the Program,

3.) That the money the participants elected to put into the Program would be deductible from their income for tax purposes each year,

4.) That the money the participants put into the independent "Trust Fund" rather than into the General operating fund, and therefore, would only be used to fund the Social Security Retirement Program, and no other Government program, and,

5.) That the annuity payments to the retirees would never be taxed as income.

Since many of us have paid into FICA for years and are now receiving a Social Security check every month -- and then finding that we are getting taxed on 85% of the money we paid to the Federal government to "put away," you may be interested in the following:

Q: Which Political Party took Social Security from the independent
"Trust" fund and put it into the General fund so that Congress could spend it?

A: It was Lyndon Johnson and the Democratically-controlled House and Senate.

Q: Which Political Party eliminated the income tax deduction for Social Security (FICA) withholding?

A: The Democratic Party.

Q: Which Political Party started taxing Social Security annuities?

A: The Democratic Party, with Al Gore casting the "tie-breaking"
deciding vote as President of the Senate, while he was Vice President of the U.S.

MY FAVORITE :

Q: Which Political Party decided to start giving annuity payments to immigrants?

A: That's right! Jimmy Carter and the Democratic Party. Immigrants moved into this country, and at age 65, began to receive SSI Social Security payments! The Democratic Party gave these payments to them, even though they never paid a dime into it!

Then, after doing all this violating of the original contract (FICA),
the Democrats turn around and tell you that the Republicans want to take your Social Security away!

And the worst part about it is, uninformed citizens believe it!

[jenmdixon]

So tell me, december90, how many of your extended family and friends are currently receiving SS? Just curious...

[jenmdixon]

Hm. I didn't mean that as harsh as it sounded.

I'm genuinely curious if your views are affected or not by the participation or lack thereof in your family and friends... :)

[portisizzle]

Originally posted by jenmdixon
So tell me, december90, how many of your extended family and friends are currently receiving SS? Just curious...


What was that shot for Jen?

Looks like relevant information to me.

[December90]

Originally posted by jenmdixon
So tell me, december90, how many of your extended family and friends are currently receiving SS? Just curious...

1. My Great Aunt.

SS is a pyramid scheme designed to collapse. I would gladly opt out of benefits if I could opt out of funding it.

[jenmdixon]

Originally posted by portisbowwow



What was that shot for Jen?

Looks like relevant information to me.

Didn't mean it as a shot. Really. See my second post.

Damn computer is slow as molasses today in loading the pages :(

[December90]

Originally posted by jenmdixon


Didn't mean it as a shot. Really. See my second post.

Damn computer is slow as molasses today in loading the pages :(

Did not take it as bad as it it may have sounded. (You got the benefit of the doubt because I have read your posts in the past and you don't tend to personally trash people)

I take it as a point of pride that my immediate family can all stand on their own without "Momma Government" supporting them. We have designed a system of entitlement that rewards existence above achievement and Social security is just one of the programs where politicians from both partys have sold out to the elderly voting block (the democrats more successfully than the republicans)

We the Nation need to go back to JFK's statement "Ask not what your country can do for you but ask what you can do for tyour country" (or something like that)

[codeorama]

I'm kind of torn over SS.
Personally, I'd have no problem taking care of my own needs. However, with human nature being what it is, imagine all the people who are irresponsible. Do they end up being state supported? If the state doesn't support them, what happens to them?

I'm NOT saying I think the state should or should not support them, I'm honestly asking. Do they die on the streets, do they become criminals and start robbing honest citizens?
I'm not informed enough to have a strong opinion on it. But I do hate paying for something that at this point looks like it won't be available to me.
But my GOP supporting Grandmother is living large off of SS and other govt money...

[December90]

Originally posted by codeorama
I'm kind of torn over SS.
Personally, I'd have no problem taking care of my own needs. However, with human nature being what it is, imagine all the people who are irresponsible. Do they end up being state supported? If the state doesn't support them, what happens to them?

I'm NOT saying I think the state should or should not support them, I'm honestly asking. Do they die on the streets, do they become criminals and start robbing honest citizens?
I'm not informed enough to have a strong opinion on it. But I do hate paying for something that at this point looks like it won't be available to me.
But my GOP supporting Grandmother is living large off of SS and other govt money...

How did so many people live until FDR came up with this govt program to support them. Do you think any of the founding fathers would have even dreamed of such an entitlement system?

One of the major problems with social security was that it was designed so that most people would NOT benefit from it. The age restriction was higher than the average life expectency at the time. Yet as we have advanced life expectency greatly since social security began we have not moved back the age at which you are entitled to your govt check much (I think it was moved back once but am fuzzy on the details right now)

[Predicto]

Originally posted by December90


How did so many people live until FDR came up with this govt program to support them?



A lot of them starved, or became a horrible burden on their children if they were lucky enough to have them.

[codeorama]

Originally posted by Predicto


A lot of them starved, or became a horrible burden on their children if they were lucky enough to have them.

That was going to be my response.
Again, not claiming to be right or what ever, but that's my question.
Lets just say that it becomes "every man for himself". What happens to those other people, am I going to have to hire a private security force to guard my home?

[Kilmer17]

I'd like free gas please. It would help my business and let me create more jobs.

Someone point out the difference please.

[December90]

Originally posted by Kilmer17
I'd like free gas please. It would help my business and let me create more jobs.

Someone point out the difference please.

Why stop there.

Maybe we could start SS Benefits from birth instead of waiting until they are 62 years. I have already paid in my "40 quarters" so why should I have to wait another 30 years or so until I can "cash in"

I cannot get past the opinion that the government is supposed to protect us from enemies both foreign and domestic. I did not think they were supposed to protect me from me?:doh:

[codeorama]

Why is it just protecting "me from me"?
I look at it more as protecting "me from you".

[portisizzle]

Originally posted by Kilmer17
I'd like free gas please. It would help my business and let me create more jobs.

Someone point out the difference please.

I WANT FREE ACCESS TO EXTREMESKINS.COM!!!!!!!NOW!!!!

.............
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................

..............





Oh, it is free........................sorry guys....:doh:

[Predicto]

I also question the veracity of your original post. I have never heard of "annuity payments" to immigrants before. As I understand it, only those who have paid into social security (and their families) receive benefits from social security.

While the formulas for social security need to be tweaked to keep the program solvent, it is not an "entitlement program." Welfare is an entitlement program, as is Medicare.

[December90]

Originally posted by Predicto
I also question the veracity of your original post. I have never heard of "annuity payments" to immigrants before. As I understand it, only those who have paid into social security (and their families) receive benefits from social security.

While the formulas for social security need to be tweaked to keep the program solvent, it is not an "entitlement program." Welfare is an entitlement program, as is Medicare.

If it is not an entitlement program then what is it?

[Predicto]

Code is right. Social Security was created as a panacea for the masses. Workers who do not fear that they are going to starve in their old age are workers who do not rise up in revolution against the rich, a real concern during the Great Depression. Social security, while not perfect, is a damn fine program that has done wonders for stability in this country for decades.

Baby boom demographics are the problem here, not social security itself.

[SkinInsite]

Where would the government get money for their bloated programs?

[Predicto]

An entitlement program is something you get for doing nothing, for just existing.

Social security is a pension, a retirement program, a deferral of wages earned until retirement. Pay in at the front end of your career, receive at the back end.

The result has been a tremendously lessened incidence of old age poverty and consequentially greater social stability due to reduced fear about the future.

[jenmdixon]

Originally posted by December90
Did not take it as bad as it it may have sounded. (You got the benefit of the doubt because I have read your posts in the past and you don't tend to personally trash people)


Good glad to hear it- I try not to because karma will bite me later. Then again, I am already slated for a cubicle in Hades, so....maybe I shouldt put toomuch effort into being nice, eh? ;)


Originaly posted by Predicto
[B]I also question the veracity of your original post. I have never heard of "annuity payments" to immigrants before. As I understand it, only those who have paid into social security (and their families) receive benefits from social security.

While the formulas for social security need to be tweaked to keep the program solvent, it is not an "entitlement program." Welfare is an entitlement program, as is Medicare.

Remember, Medicare is part of FICA withholding - 1.45% of it, in fact, and has no ceiling on it. At least Social Security has a ceiiling on it (6.2% of the first 87,900 of your earnings in 2004). Just supplying info, not judging opinions.

[December90]

Originally posted by Predicto
I also question the veracity of your original post. I have never heard of "annuity payments" to immigrants before. As I understand it, only those who have paid into social security (and their families) receive benefits from social security.



http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/statcomps/ssi_asr/2002/table13.html

[Predicto]

Originally posted by December90


http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/statcomps/ssi_asr/2002/table13.html


Umm, so?

That doesn't say that those people didn't pay into social security. My childrens' caregiver was born in Bolivia. She is a us citizen now. She has paid into social security for over 20 years.

Or are you advocating that "foreign born" people pay into social security but be denied benefits when they retire?

[December90]

http://www.ssa.gov/history/InternetMyths.html

Okay crow don't taste to good but after being unable to "debunk" the e-mail before I posted it, I have found something that disputes "the facts" as laid out in the original text.

This retraction does not change my opinion that SS is an entitlement scam that has been pushed on us without regard of how it will be paid for over the perpetual life of the system.

Let it not be said that I don't admit the errors when I make them.

[stevenaa]

A lot of them starved, or became a horrible burden on their children if they were lucky enough to have them

So instead, they should be a burden on other people who have no relation to them whatsoever???

[codeorama]

Originally posted by stevenaa


So instead, they should be a burden on other people who have no relation to them whatsoever???

I don't think they "should" be a burden to anyone, but again, I ask the question, what happens to the irresponsible people? Desperate people do desperate things. Untill someone shows me otherwise, I think I'm better off having the govt help them rather than me having to protect myself form them.
Again, not saying I'm right, I just havent heard a reasonable argument the other way.

[SnyderShrugged]

Originally posted by jenmdixon


Remember, Medicare is part of FICA withholding - 1.45% of it, in fact, and has no ceiling on it. At least Social Security has a ceiiling on it (6.2% of the first 87,900 of your earnings in 2004). Just supplying info, not judging opinions. [/B]


What I can't believe I hear sometimes is that "cap" is the rationale for claiming that the current tax breaks are for the rich. Even Kerry inferred this during the debates. They claim that because they don't pay FICA beyond the cap, that they receive a break that the rest of us "poor folk" don't.

Jenn, Your opinions are always sound, ebven if I don't always agree 100%!

[SkinsHokieFan]

With immigrants

My great uncle just started recieving social security payments. 500 dollars a month.

Here is the kicker.

He has been in America for 9 years. He came here when he was 62.

[Predicto]

Originally posted by December90

Let it not be said that I don't admit the errors when I make them.

Well spoken. I will try to do the same.

[December90]

Originally posted by SkinsHokieFan
With immigrants

My great uncle just started recieving social security payments. 500 dollars a month.

Here is the kicker.

He has been in America for 9 years. He came here when he was 62.

Just curious

Did he pay into the system once he got here? and if yes for how long.

The reason I ask is because I have worked with a few former govt emplyees who used to be exempt from social security but were trying to get the "40 quarters" in so they could receive social security on top of their Govt retirement. I don't see how you could put in 40 quarters in 9 years.

[Predicto]

Originally posted by SkinsHokieFan
With immigrants

My great uncle just started recieving social security payments. 500 dollars a month.

Here is the kicker.

He has been in America for 9 years. He came here when he was 62.

The system isn't perfect, nor is it designed to pay out exactly what people pay into it. But I assume your uncle paid into the system for those past 9 years.

[SkinsHokieFan]

In a word Predicto and December90, he paid not a damn thing.

How he is getting any money is beyond me. My brother and I are quite frankly irritated that he is getting money, when he has 4 sons in this country that can take care of his ass just fine.

Which leads me to another point. Why are elder parents a burden on their children? I guess its the south east asian in me, but I know for a fact that I am expected to take care of my parents and will.

My grandmother who just passed away lived with her son all the way to the age of 96. The "system" did not need to care for her. Our family did.

I just do not see why that cannot happen in America.

[Predicto]

In part, it's a cultural difference. People in SE Asia tend to stay in family clans, and live in the same home or at least not move too far from home, so the entier extended family can support the elders.

In America, we tend to move a lot, often far away from our parents, so we are not there for them in the same way. Plus, what about elders that do not have families, or families with the means to support them.

Most importantly, having the family responsible for the elders tends to cause overpopulation. Studies have indicated that people in third world countries lacking adequate support for the elderly have lots of extra kids in large part to guarantee that someone will be there to take care of them when they grow old.

I am surprised about your uncle getting social security if he never paid into it. Perhaps there is more to the story?

[luckydevil]

A lot of them starved, or became a horrible burden on their children if they were lucky enough to have them.

utter nonsense

Starvation has never been an issue in this country and that includes the great depression( never mind the fact that it was government policy that led to the great depression).

It's truly amazing how so many people fear liberty, sigh.

The most effective means of fighting poverty( or in this case hunger) is embracing wealth creation, not wealth redistribution.