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Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin
November-2nd-2004, 01:49 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3974179.stm

Dutch film maker Theo van Gogh, who made a controversial film about Islamic culture, has been stabbed and shot dead in Amsterdam, Dutch police say.

Police arrested a man in a nearby park after an exchange of gunfire. The man, aged 26, had joint Dutch and Moroccan nationality, they said.

Van Gogh, 47, had received death threats after his film Submission was shown on Dutch TV.

It portrayed violence against women in Islamic societies.

The film was made with liberal Dutch politician Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Somali refugee who fled an arranged marriage.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali has been under police protection since the film was aired. She has also received death threats and has renounced the Islamic faith.

Eyewitnesses quoted by Radio Netherlands said Van Gogh was attacked while cycling by a man dressed in a traditional Moroccan jallaba.

Both the suspect and a policeman suffered bullet wounds and are now in hospital.

Van Gogh - who was related to the famous Dutch painter - had also been making a film about Pim Fortuyn, the populist right-wing, anti-immigration politician assassinated in May 2002.

Film controversy

The film Submission told the story of a Muslim woman forced into an arranged marriage who is abused by her husband and raped by her uncle. It triggered an outcry from Dutch Muslims.

In one scene the film showed an actress in see-through garments with Koranic script written on her body, which also bore whip marks.

The Netherlands is home to nearly one million Muslims or 5.5% of the population.

One of the film maker's colleagues at the film production company said Van Gogh had received death threats "but he never took them quite seriously".

"He was a controversial figure and a champion of free speech," he told Reuters.

Dutch Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende said "it is unacceptable if expressing your opinion would be the cause of this brutal murder".

"On a day like this we are reminded of the murder of Fortuyn. We cannot resign ourselves to such a climate, " he added.

And Queen Beatrix said she was shocked and appalled at the killing, AFP news agency reporte

Johnny Punani2
November-2nd-2004, 02:53 PM
What are they so shocked about? The dude makes a film that shows a muslim woman renouncing her faith, in see through garments, and to top it off, Koranic script written on a nude woman's body. This guy was toast from the get go...

Cskin
November-2nd-2004, 03:10 PM
But I thought Islam was a religion of peace? :doh:

Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin
November-2nd-2004, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by Johnny Punani
What are they so shocked about? The dude makes a film that shows a muslim woman renouncing her faith, in see through garments, and to top it off, Koranic script written on a nude woman's body. This guy was toast from the get go...

Yet Martin Scorcese, Willem Dafoe and all people associated with the Last temptation of Christ are alive and well(or at least died from other causes.)

Hmm...

alaadin123
November-2nd-2004, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by Cskin
But I thought Islam was a religion of peace? :doh:

You are correct, Islam is a religion of peace, the very word itself means submission to the will of God and muslim means one who submits to the will of Allah(God). There are always going to be peolple who transgress in the name of thier religion and unfortunatley, the entire religion takes the hit for the actions of some who have transgressed. It wouldn't be fair to judge Christianity by Jim Baker or Bishop Don the Magic Juan or any of these other people who clearly misrepresent Christianity. Th Q'uran is indeed a sacred book to Muslims and it is completely unislamic to tatoo it on ones body, it is so sacred to muslims that you can't even read it unless you cleanse your body in a certain manner. America is currently at war with a nation that subscribes to this religion, I think we owe it to ourselves to at least read a verse or two (ayats) before deciding its a evil terrible religion, make an informed opinion.

Johnny Punani2
November-2nd-2004, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin


Yet Martin Scorcese, Willem Dafoe and all people associated with the Last temptation of Christ are alive and well(or at least died from other causes.)

Hmm...

I would love to see some of the people here who like to drag Christianity through the mud do the samething to Islam. Heck, they don't even have to do that. Just say something negative about Christ in an Islamic country and see what happens to you.

Thiebear
November-2nd-2004, 03:31 PM
Art said I'm not allowed to say anything for the next couple of days about this, because I really have NOTHING nice to say...
Mums the word...

Johnny Punani2
November-2nd-2004, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by Thiebear
Art said I'm not allowed to say anything for the next couple of days about this, because I really have NOTHING nice to say...
Mums the word...

you always have PMs

redman
November-2nd-2004, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by alaadin123


You are correct, Islam is a religion of peace, the very word itself means submission to the will of God and muslim means one who submits to the will of Allah(God). There are always going to be peolple who transgress in the name of thier religion and unfortunatley, the entire religion takes the hit for the actions of some who have transgressed. It wouldn't be fair to judge Christianity by Jim Baker or Bishop Don the Magic Juan or any of these other people who clearly misrepresent Christianity. Th Q'uran is indeed a sacred book to Muslims and it is completely unislamic to tatoo it on ones body, it is so sacred to muslims that you can't even read it unless you cleanse your body in a certain manner. America is currently at war with a nation that subscribes to this religion, I think we owe it to ourselves to at least read a verse or two (ayats) before deciding its a evil terrible religion, make an informed opinion. Challenge for you:

name a single region, of the world that has not become predominantly Muslim through force or the threat of it.

Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin
November-2nd-2004, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by redman
Challenge for you:

name a single region, of the world that has not become predominantly Muslim through force or the threat of it.

Actually there is one--SE Asia.

Mainly converted through Indian traders who spread the faith but did so without threat of force. Now it's true that it was mainly taking hold with the coastal elites in what we call Indonesia and Malaysia, and maybe AFTER that there was threat of force but in terms of taking hold, that was spread through trade.

That doesn't mean that Islam is "peace."

Submission is NOT AT ALL like peace. Submission can be brought about by threat, by seduction and by violence. I NEVER submit to anyone because it's just cool to do.

More important to look at, I think, is the life lessons of Jesus, Buddha, Lao Tzu and Mohammad. Compare them and then you will see why certain things are the way they are?

Ancalagon the Black
November-2nd-2004, 04:24 PM
Originally posted by redman
Challenge for you:

name a single region, of the world that has not become predominantly Muslim through force or the threat of it.

There's a stretch of Rockville Pike I can think of, as well as some neighborhoods in Michigan. Also some western suburbs of Melbourne.

Oh, and Malaysia and Sumatra.

alaadin123
November-2nd-2004, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by redman
Challenge for you:

name a single region, of the world that has not become predominantly Muslim through force or the threat of it.

Have you ever heard of the Christian Crusades?
There is no compulsion in Islam. As I stated earlier, many people do things in the name of a religion that are not consistent with that religion, After reading up on Islam for myself, from non biased authors, I found Islam to be a very beautiful religion.