The real reason why we won’t draft a TE in the 1st round; Zone Blitzing

[Oldskool]

When Gibbs retired in 1992, zone blitzing was not a factor in most of the NFL defensive coordinators schemes. At that time, he was able to release both the H-Back and the Tight End into the space between the trench and the linebackers for an easy 4-5 yard dump and run. This is no longer the case. Zone blitzing is a staple of almost all defensive coordinators plays. Blitzing from the CB’s and Safeties has been as common as from OLB nowadays.

As the game has changed so have Gibbs philosophies. No longer is the TE used as a pass catcher as in days past. A TE is Gibbs system is a blocker first and foremost. As an example right now, per www.ourlads.com, we have 3 TE’s on the roster; Robert Royal, Jabari Holloway and Kori Dickerson.


Royal – 8 passes caught in 2004

Dickerson – 0 passes caught in 2004

Holloway – no info available.


This speaks volume about what their roles have been and what the role of a TE is in Gibbs system.

Juxtapose this with our 3 H-backs that are on the roster, Cooley, Kozlowski and Sellers

Cooley – 37 passes caught in 2004
Kozlowski – 3 passes caught in 2004
Sellers – 1 pass caught in 2004

The role of the pass catching TE has been replaced with the H-Back in Gibbs system. The H-back’s duty is to block but to also be the safety valve for the QB to dump the ball to whereas the TE is almost strictly a blocker outside of the redzone (Royal had 4 TD catches, compared the Cooley’s 6 TD’s).

[Matador36]

What about Portis? he doesn't fit his system either but he made it work. I agree we need a WR, O line and a DE the most but a first round pick in this new era is usually about the best player available who can come in and help right away and our offense needs help badly.

[KingTaylor22]

i dont think we would take a TE in the first anyway

[Gibbs4Life]

You also forget that one of the main reason gibbs kept that extra tightend on the line was to help out ray brown. Forty year old men have a pretty hard time against fast defensive ends. Especially with the great ends in our division. Think about it. Strahan, umenyori ( he emerged this season), kearse and burgess, and greg ellis. He realized if we didn't get help over to brown against guys like these ramsey and brunnell were going to get messed up.

Hopefully with the return of jansen we won't need that constant blocking tightend. We can send him out on passes sometimes. And heath miller is the best catching tightend in the draft. But if he does need to block heath miller is also one of the best.

[FLSKINSFAN]

The TE was always a blocker in Gibbs offense first and foremost. Zone blitzing won't change the fact that TE's won't catch the ball in Gibbs offense, because they rarely did in the first place.

We need a Don Warren, not a Shockey. You don't pick a Don Warren type TE in the first round.

[Oldskool]

Originally posted by Gibbs4Life
You also forget that one of the main reason gibbs kept that extra tightend on the line was to help out ray brown. Forty year old men have a pretty hard time against fast defensive ends. Especially with the great ends in our division. Think about it. Strahan, umenyori ( he emerged this season), kearse and burgess, and greg ellis. He realized if we didn't get help over to brown against guys like these ramsey and brunnell were going to get messed up.

Hopefully with the return of jansen we won't need that constant blocking tightend. We can send him out on passes sometimes. And heath miller is the best catching tightend in the draft. But if he does need to block heath miller is also one of the best.

It doesnt matter if Brown is there or Jansen or Ogden for that matter, the TE stays home in this offense because we are a run first offense and teams blitz and load up the box with extra defenders to stop Portis.

Miller is a nice player and will be a good fit in some other teams offense but he’d be as useless as a tit on a bull in our system.

On average with a standard blocking scheme you have 5 lineman defending 4 rushers. With zone blitzing and more men in the box you need that extra 2 blockers (TE and H-back) to account for those defenders that come free or to help in the run game.

[Prosperity]

Lots of teams have pass catching TEs and they face as much zone blitzing as anyone

[Bang]

Maybe I missed something, but overall, the TEs were one of the bright spots on the offense this year.

~Bang

[bulldog]

agreed, the Redskins were not likely to look at TE in the first round of the draft in any event.

Cooley provides the team with a realistic threat as a pass catcher and what the team needs is a strong point of attack blocker and blue collar guy at the traditional TE position.

Those guys you usually don't find in the first or second round, nor do you usually look for them that high :)

[Oldskool]

Originally posted by Liberty
Lots of teams have pass catching TEs and they face as much zone blitzing as anyone

but they usually have a blocking TE along with a pass catching TE. The pass catching TE slot is taken by the H-back in this offense.

[Gibbs4Life]

Originally posted by Oldskool


It doesnt matter if Brown is there or Jansen or Ogden for that matter, the TE stays home in this offense because we are a run first offense and teams blitz and load up the box with extra defenders to stop Portis.

Miller is a nice player and will be a good fit in some other teams offense but he’d be as useless as a tit on a bull in our system.

On average with a standard blocking scheme you have 5 lineman defending 4 rushers. With zone blitzing and more men in the box you need that extra 2 blockers (TE and H-back) to account for those defenders that come free or to help in the run game.

The only reason were a run all the time offense is cause last year we had no receivers to catch the ball We basically had no passing game. So we escentially had to run causing teams to load the box. If we had weapons like heath miller teams couldn't load the box all the time.

We got blitzed out of our mind last season, but we never made teams pay for it. Have some one like heath miller come out on a delay block or as a check down would really force teams not to blitz the house every time, and it helps free up the run. Not to mention when he is needed to block he is an excellent blocker.

Also i think your under estimating gibbs ability to adapt to utilize a good player. Just look at how he adapted to get cooley into more and more plays at the end of the season. At the end he really started to utilize cooley to his full potential, i think gibbs could get the same out of miller and that would be scary.

[Oldskool]

Originally posted by Gibbs4Life


The only reason were a run all the time offense is cause last year we had no receivers to catch the ball We basically had no passing game. So we escentially had to run causing teams to load the box. If we had weapons like heath miller teams couldn't load the box all the time.

We got blitzed out of our mind last season, but we never made teams pay for it. Have some one like heath miller come out on a delay block or as a check down would really force teams not to blitz the house every time, and it helps free up the run. Not to mention when he is needed to block he is an excellent blocker.

Also i think your under estimating gibbs ability to adapt to utilize a good player. Just look at how he adapted to get cooley into more and more plays at the end of the season. At the end he really started to utilize cooley to his full potential, i think gibbs could get the same out of miller and that would be scary.

OK. I know you didnt see Gibbs' offense the first time around since youre in your early 20's. Hell im barely old enough to remember the 88 championship but do remember the 91 championship very clearly.

So let me lay this out for you, and please, anyone my age and older who remembers Gibbs' tenure the first time around, tell me if Im wrong.

Gibbs offense is based on running the ball to set up plays downfield. It is not a pass first offense nor is it a WCO dink and dunk kind of offense either.

Its basis lies in having a solid set of lineman and blockers that can move the chains on first down and get the defense looking for run, so that you can take shots downfield. How this is accomplished is keeping a TE in as a blocker as well as having the H-back block. Having between 6-8 players blocking allows the QB to have ample time to get the ball deep to his WR's on passing downs and to overload a side of the ball on running plays, alllowing the RB large holes to run though.

How does this affect Heath Miller? Ive said this so many times, I might as well cut and paste it. Heath Miller would be a H-back in Gibbs system, not a TE. He's about 20 lbs too light to be a blocking TE and we already have a H-back in Chris Cooley.

Gibbs rarely uses a 2 H-back set but he does use a blocking TE/H-back set as a standard formation and uses 2 TE's on jumbo and heavy jumbo sets.

I know some of you are really high on this kid but he came out a year too late for us to draft him.

[FLSKINSFAN]

mods, Please delete this post. I wanted to edit my first post and I hit the quote button.

thanks.

[RDSKNfaithfull]

Maybe Gibbs should adapt. The rest of the leagues Tight ends are having career years with the new rules.

[Gibbs4Life]

Originally posted by Oldskool


OK. I know you didnt see Gibbs' offense the first time around since youre in your early 20's. Hell im barely old enough to remember the 88 championship but do remember the 91 championship very clearly.

So let me lay this out for you, and please, anyone my age and older who remembers Gibbs' tenure the first time around, tell me if Im wrong.

Gibbs offense is based on running the ball to set up plays downfield. It is not a pass first offense nor is it a WCO dink and dunk kind of offense either.

Its basis lies in having a solid set of lineman and blockers that can move the chains on first down and get the defense looking for run, so that you can take shots downfield. How this is accomplished is keeping a TE in as a blocker as well as having the H-back block. Having between 6-8 players blocking allows the QB to have ample time to get the ball deep to his WR's on passing downs and to overload a side of the ball on running plays, alllowing the RB large holes to run though.

How does this affect Heath Miller? Ive said this so many times, I might as well cut and paste it. Heath Miller would be a H-back in Gibbs system, not a TE. He's about 20 lbs too light to be a blocking TE and we already have a H-back in Chris Cooley.

Gibbs rarely uses a 2 H-back set but he does use a blocking TE/H-back set as a standard formation and uses 2 TE's on jumbo and heavy jumbo sets.

I know some of you are really high on this kid but he came out a year too late for us to draft him.


Your absolutely right, we were a smash mouth football team, we ran it down peoples throats over and over and that caused teams to let long passes go when they were expecting run.

But your also forgetting that gibbs is one of the best adapting coaches in the nfl. He took three different qbs to the superbowl and won. He can adapt to make miller a double threat. Miller is an amazing blocker he is perfect for the pulling play that we use. He is fast enought to get to the corner and he is used to leading blocks. Also as gibbs found out this season teams blitz like crazy, have a check down tightend will really hurt teams that all out blitz. He also can be a good delay blocker. Im not sure if gibbs uses delays but they would work really well.


Also i just wanted to throw this in there, that im actaully on the mike williams bandwagon. the main reason im arguing for miller is cause i have a bad feeling that the bears are going to snatch him up with the forth pick. And with all the drop problems we've had i want an absolutely sure handed receiver and mike williams and miller have the best hands in the league. But hey here's hoping for the bears to pass him up ehh.:cheers:

[Oldskool]

Originally posted by Gibbs4Life



Your absolutely right, we were a smash mouth football team, we ran it down peoples throats over and over and that caused teams to let long passes go when they were expecting run.

But your also forgetting that gibbs is one of the best adapting coaches in the nfl. He took three different qbs to the superbowl and won. He can adapt to make miller a double threat. Miller is an amazing blocker he is perfect for the pulling play that we use. He is fast enought to get to the corner and he is used to leading blocks. Also as gibbs found out this season teams blitz like crazy, have a check down tightend will really hurt teams that all out blitz. He also can be a good delay blocker. Im not sure if gibbs uses delays but they would work really well.


Also i just wanted to throw this in there, that im actaully on the mike williams bandwagon. the main reason im arguing for miller is cause i have a bad feeling that the bears are going to snatch him up with the forth pick. And with all the drop problems we've had i want an absolutely sure handed receiver and mike williams and miller have the best hands in the league. But hey here's hoping for the bears to pass him up ehh.:cheers:

It doesnt matter how many QB's Gibbs took to the SB, its about the system and the system isnt in need of Heath Miller right now. Chris Cooley is our H-back. We need an upgrade at blocking TE and Center. Miller isnt either.


Here's to the coaching staff making the correct call. :cheers:

[Oldskool]

[FBChick]

Is Gibbs good at adjusting plays to players? Sure, he is. But as much as some want to argue that Gibbs may not have been the main hand in personnel picks, I'd beg to differ.. Gibbs bigger strength is finding guys to fill in the roles he had designed in his system, who played it well. You define the system and then tweek it to support the cast.. but the cast has to fit close enough to the system or you through it out the door.

Why did three seperate QBs play so effectively for Gibbs? Because Gibbs never wanted a star QB type player.. he wanted a field manager who could think and process and make the small plays 90% of the time. All the QB's fit that profile, some had a better arm then others and Gibbs would open the offense more for them.. but a field general was first and foremost important to Gibbs.

Running back.. do really want to know what makes Portis a Gibbs type of back? It has nothing to do with his running, but it's his desire to always carry the ball to be the MAN. It's his willingness and ability to fight for the extra yard. That is the reason Portis got 1300+ yards behind a sorrid O-line and a non-existant pass attack. He saw it in Riggins and Byner and Smith. They ALL ran differently, and he had to adjust for each of them... but they all ran hard. Portis is just the most unique as he is probably faster then any of his previous backs.

The H-Back.. for Gibbs, the H-back is nothing more then a pass receiving TE.. he lines up differently, he motions a LOT, he has some blocking responsibilities, but his job is as a receiver on most passing plays.

The TE in Gibbs system? Better to think of him as a fullback. A quicker then normal fullback with very good hands, but a fullback non the less. He should be the crucial key to most goalline run situations. He spends more time picking up the blitzes to protect the QB, then going out for passes.. and even when he does.. pay attention, he usually throws a block before he releases to at least aid in the QB protection.

Gibbs isn't about to change his entire scheme for a Rookie, so don't even bank on that and Miller nor the TE position are big enough deals to warrant such a thought. Not to mention, do you actually think that Miller would be satisfied enough to actually play in a system where he would rarely touch the ball? Common sense just tells you it would not be a good fit. Like many have said, if Cooley were not a part of the Skins picture, Miller would be a very good prospect, but not now.

[wskin44]

Excellent discussion folks. This is why I come to this site. I've gotta agree with OldSkool & PBChick. I absolutely agree about Portis. To add a thought, what this offense needs is a WR like Gary Clark who can seperate and make the defense pay for stacking the box. I know that man is supposed to be Coles, but there is no guarantee that he will be back to form next year, so he may have to play the possession receiver spot. We need a fast, quick WR who will make them pay.

[wskin44]

Chris Cooley only had 8.5 yards per catch which ranked him about 60th in the NFL for Tight Ends. With the defenses stacked in the box there is not a lot of room for a tight end to operate. We don't need another low yardage receiver. When the defense gambles by focusing on the line of scrimmage their risk has to be greater than giving up an 8 yard gain or they will continue to take the risk.

[jrfriedm]

If we were ever going to take a TE in the first round, we would've done it last season with Winslow.

[FLSKINSFAN]

what this offense needs is a WR like Gary Clark who can seperate and make the defense pay for stacking the box.

I couldn't agree more. Mark Clayton really reminds me of Gary Clark, he doesn't have that great track speed, but, he can take the five yard out and take it all the way. Clayton is spectacular after the catch, and can get deep as well as anyone. Our offense was terrible, as far as running after the catch. A lot can be blamed on Brunell, but our wide receiver didn't make anyone miss last year, and it didn't look like we could run away from any one either

[Oldskool]

Originally posted by FLSKINSFAN


I couldn't agree more. Mark Clayton really reminds me of Gary Clark, he doesn't have that great track speed, but, he can take the five yard out and take it all the way. Clayton is spectacular after the catch, and can get deep as well as anyone. Our offense was terrible, as far as running after the catch. A lot can be blamed on Brunell, but our wide receiver didn't make anyone miss last year, and it didn't look like we could run away from any one either

:doh: That’s why we have Coles, Thrash and Jacobs.

If we are going to use the Posse as an example we need an Art Monk not more Gary Clark’s

[FLSKINSFAN]

Originally posted by Oldskool


:doh: That’s why we have Coles, Thrash and Jacobs.

If we are going to use the Posse as an example we need an Art Monk not more Gary Clark’s

If Coles can prove he's healthy, we do. But, based on what I saw last year, We don't have a Gary Clack or Art Monk on our roster.

Now, IF Coles can get healthy, he would fill the Gary Clark role for us. But, that's a big IF right now.

[Matador36]

Originally posted by Oldskool


:doh: That’s why we have Coles, Thrash and Jacobs.

If we are going to use the Posse as an example we need an Art Monk not more Gary Clark’s

Could Dmac be our Art Monk?

[budski]

Everyone has put some good comments on this.
Drafting a TE, I dont see it. Portis fits the system because he is the new era back. Look for the TE to become more of ground attack with mid range passes. Look for more spread formations, but shorter passes, and the running game will improve. I do think they will pick up beefy center.

[wskin44]

The Coles situation really forces the team to make some decisions. Coles did fine as a possession receiver this year, but I don't think that the team is willing to gamble that he will go back to gamebreaker in '05. I think that they are perfectly willing to let Coles continue as a possession guy and look to add a gamebreaker. Is Jacobs a gamebreaker? We don't really know.

If Coles returns to form, then it gives us more options, but I think that they will hedge their bet by trying to find another speed guy. Its just my guess as to what they are thinking.