CPND Exclusive: Demasio Defends His Story

[rtandler]

Nunyo's been getting hammered pretty hard this afternoon and I invited him to give us his side of how the Coles story developed.

Said Demasio:

It started late last season. I heard from a player that Coles had asked to be traded during the season. And then, as the season came to an end, Gibbs let it be known that anyone who did not want to be a Redskin next season should come and talk to him and he would do his best to accommodate the request. Coles and (Rod) Gardner were the only ones to take him up on that.
CPND Exclusive: Post Reporter Defends Coles Story (http://redskins.scout.com/2/353989.html)

[pr11fan]

I believe he hit the head on this one, Gibbs obviously didn't want it leaked like this, but I believe by the middle of March the basic gist of the story (Coles won't be here in 05) will be true. I kinda feel bad for the guy cause people are going hang onto what Gibbs says like it's the gospel and denounce Demasio as a moron, yet if this proves to be correct Gibbs will just have been posturing and ND will still catch grief the next time he posts something the fans don't like.

[Westbrook36]

I don't understand why people are mad at the writer. Aren't you guys glad you know right now?

If Coles is ultimately not going to be with the team, and the guy did his homework, what is the beef? Is Gibbs so beyond reproach that if he gets pissed that a story got leaked, the messenger must be killed?

I think Gibbs and fans should be more upet then with the mole in the organization.

[bubba9497]

After I said that the story was accurate, she said ‘That’s not the point!’ and hung up on me.

My wife is Coles agent??!!! :yikes:



:laugh:


good stuff thanks!!

[CHUBAKAH]

Might as well shock the people sooner than later. At least there is plently of time to rebound, and not end up like the Ricky Wiliams stoy last year. I say good looking out Nunyo...

[bubba9497]

http://img216.exs.cx/img216/8736/coles1it.jpg

OMG Coles is being traded to the Washington Federals!!

[Westbrook36]

I'm a professional web designer in my spare time. You like my work? :D

[pr11fan]

I don't understand why people are mad at the writer. Aren't you guys glad you know right now?

If Coles is ultimately not going to be with the team, and the guy did his homework, what is the beef? Is Gibbs so beyond reproach that if he gets pissed that a story got leaked, the messenger must be killed?

I couldn't agree more, I would rather know this is going on assuming that ND actually did his homework and didn't just pull the story out of thin air. Just b/c Gibbs denied it doesn't mean it isn't true, I mean if I remember right almost all the clues last year were leaning towards Winslow in days leading up to the draft and Ed Werder reporting 1 pick before ours that Gibbs was basically enamored with Winslow, so it's not like everything that comes out of Gibbs mouth is the truth and that's not a bad thing in this business, but I can't understand why some people have such a hard time believing this could be true just b/c Gibbs won't verify it, and are willing to crucify the messenger b/c of it.

[kingdaddy]

Coles and T.O.? I love it, let McNabb throw (up) even more. The Eagles will self-destruct if this happens.

[RedskinzOwnU]

i have mixed feelings on the issue. obviously we enjoy receiving inside information - but if the public release of this news ultimately ends up hurting the prospects of the redskins making a trade or completing any kind of beneficial deal, then i'd rather wait to hear until after the work is done. The early report of this information is certainly not going to help the redskins at the bargaining table

[bubba9497]

Originally posted by RedskinzOwnU
The early report of this information is certainly not going to help the redskins at the bargaining table

why?

how?

[DUSTINMFOX]

I don't like it how Nunyo is trying to cover his ass by writing the statement that he tried to call Coles agent and he hung up on him......

To me that's bad reporting...

[Buford]

hey Dustin.... how much are those Coles jersey's going for today?

I'd like to order a Champ, Trotter and Coles jersey.....supersize the fries.

total- $9.99

[Henry]

Originally posted by bubba9497


why?

how?

It could hurt the Skins' position because now other teams know Coles doesn't want to be there, and the Redskins almost have to move him. That gives other teams a little more leverage than if the Redskins approached some team like, say the Jets, and said "We want Abraham. You can have, oh I don't know ... how about Coles."

Frankly, I'd give up knowing the Redskins wanted to move him if it meant getting a better deal in the end.

[BG]

Basically Nunyon lowered Coles' trade value.

[Dead Money]

Gibbs wants his house secured and every time this happens he will get pissed. He wants to connect with the fans but is old school in his "need to know" kinda way. In this case i would be pissed to because much more could have been accomplished without the 3 ring circus in town.

I bet you all that Nunyo burnt a couple of his contacts this go around - unless it was intentional which I find hard to believe.

As to whover it was who questions that we would rather know than not know, if its for the better of the team than I would rather not know. Redskins park will officially be on lock down after this mess is cleared up. And I won't blame Gibbs a bit - the media is SOOO much worse than it was his last go around.

[wskin44]

Numbnuts could have avoided this whole thing by calling Joe Gibbs and asking for confirmation that Coles was about to be released. If he took the time to call Coles agent "100 times" then why didn't he try to ask Joe just once?

What has effectively happened now is exactly as Henry describes. A deal will be much more difficult and this hurts both the Redskins and Coles (which is why his agent is so pissed). The Redskin employees that talked to Numbnuts should be fired. Numbnuts should be disciplined for not getting confirmation from Gibbs.

[Westbrook36]

The reporter's job is to report the truth as he knows it after researching it...not look after the best interests of the team.

His report, like it or not, is essentially true.

[Zen-like Todd]

His report was inaccurate. The Redskins were looking to trade Coles, not release him. Period. And if you dont think journalists sit on/delay stories ALL THE TIME, you are crazy.

[jbooma]

Originally posted by Zen-like Todd
His report was inaccurate. The Redskins were looking to trade Coles, not release him. Period. And if you dont think journalists sit on/delay stories ALL THE TIME, you are crazy.

Actually the story was basically that coles was leaving the redskins, does it make a huge difference if he was beeing traded or not?? He was the first reporter to write on paper that the redskins were getting rid of coles, at the time he had the wrong info on how maybe but the report it self is accurate.

He knew he had to jump on it because he must have been aware of ESPN's report as well as the WT's report today. So he jumped the gun, however if they don't come to an agreement with Coles and a trade then he is going to be released. Gibbs is not going to keep someone unhappy here, period.

[Dirk Diggler]

The report is false. There is a monumental difference between dumping Coles on his ass and getting something in return for him. When Skins fans are up in arms about getting nothing in return for a player of Coles caliber, it's misleading. There was no mention of a trade in the original article and that's just bad reporting. He should have researched it better rather than release a nah-nah-nah article just to beat someone else to the punch. Bad Nunyo.

[Zen-like Todd]

It makes a huge difference in terms of leverage and negotiations, and thats why Gibbs was pissed, and when pressed on the issue in the conference, specifically said "the article said he would be released, that's inaccurate".

Nunyo tap daced his way with multiple iterations of later articles to try to get closer to the truth of the situation.

And ESPN clearly jumped on the story AFTER seeing Nunyo's article. They obviously contacted sources for verification once it had already leaked.

[BD]

I don't have a problem with the report. The crux of it was that Coles was on the outs, and while the possibility of a release was the story, the fact that Coles had requested a trade was mentioned.

Frankly, as I said on another thread, I would be more confident in the details of the story if it came from LaCanfora instead of Demasio. But at the same time, I think Nunyo is on fine turf here in the big picture.

A few details may turn out to be incorrect, but he had sources on everything, and that's enough to go. His first job is to be a reporter, not look out for the interests of the team.

BD

[jbooma]

Originally posted by Zen-like Todd
It makes a huge difference in terms of leverage and negotiations, and thats why Gibbs was pissed, and when pressed on the issue in the conference, specifically said "the article said he would be released, that's inaccurate".

Nunyo tap daced his way with multiple iterations of later articles to try to get closer to the truth of the situation.

And ESPN clearly jumped on the story AFTER seeing Nunyo's article. They obviously contacted sources for verification once it had already leaked.

Then maybe Gibbs should stop worrying about reporters and find the leaks first, since the information given to Nunyo was part of the whole thing, he knew about the meetings which were supposed to be in secret. Nunyo is doing his job, he has to beat everyone to the punch. Gibbs needs to do a better job of keeping information inhouse, he hasn't been able to do that.

It is obvious the agent wanted some leverage.

[Zen-like Todd]

The original article mentioned the likelihood of his release. The only time the word trade entered the article was in referennce to Coles asking to be traded during the 2004 season.

And as a reporter, his first job is to verify the story.

[wskin44]

His first job is to be as accurate as he can. Only Gibbs or Snyder can really speak with authority about the Redskins plans. There is no evidence that numbnuts made any attempt to confirm that the Skins were about to cut Coles, but he wrote that anyway. Its not about loyalty to the Redskins. He didn't do his first job which is to make every effort to be accurate.

[jbooma]

Originally posted by Zen-like Todd
The original article mentioned the likelihood of his release. The only time the word trade entered the article was in referennce to Coles asking to be traded during the 2004 season.

And as a reporter, his first job is to verify the story.

As someone who reads the post I want to know what is happening, if there was an earthquake, or bombing, etc....

Then later I would care more about the details.

Hence what I got from the article was the skins were getting rid of Coles, that is all I care about. I don't care about the fine details of it once it is all been taking care of.

Nunyo did that, and now is getting down to the details.

It is like the skins are interested in this player in FA, such as the CB from Tenn, then once they get more of the details let us know the rest. That is how it works.

I find it funny that everyone is screaming at Nunyo. When he was right all along, just didn't have the fine details of the transaction. No one actually would untill the paperwork is submitted to the NFL anyway.

[wskin44]

I understand and respect that there was enough truth in numbnuts' story that it would have been a headliner regardless, but there is a huge difference in outright cutting a top notch player and in considering trading one. He needs to understand these things and make the effort to confirm rumors (which is all he ever had, regardless of source) before printing them. He has caused trouble for both the Skins and Coles.

[jbooma]

Originally posted by wskin44
I understand and respect that there was enough truth in numbnuts' story that it would have been a headliner regardless, but there is a huge difference in outright cutting a top notch player and in considering trading one. He needs to understand these things and make the effort to confirm rumors (which is all he ever had, regardless of source) before printing them. He has caused trouble for both the Skins and Coles.

yes but does the average reader care about it, he can't just write his article for a particular fan, he has to right it for the average reader, and most only care if he is here or gone

we are different since we understand the game and all the inside stuff as well, the majority aren't like that

if that was something OM or Art would write for this site, then yes we would want all the details and all of them accurate, when you are writing for millions in this area, they don't care as much

since most of these readers will read the morning article, and then todays and be fine, they don't need the information now like we crave here

[Park City Skins]

Good of you to speak for the readers booma. Now....BS. Nunyo has a responsibility as a journalist to his readers to provide as accurate a story as he can. Regardless of what the average reader may or may not care about. That's his job. This also protects the paper and it's reputation and integrity. This also helps to make sure the paper maintains it's relationship with the Team. Which is just a little important too. If in fact the average reader didn't care,( as well as the Post), then Nunyo wouldn't be spending so much time defending it. No sir. He owes the reader better than to put out a story before it's ready in order to get a scoop. No matter how you or Nunyo try to rationalize what he did, it was wrong and now he's in the position he's in now.


Back to work

[jbooma]

Originally posted by Park City Skins
Good of you to speak for the readers booma. Now....BS. Nunyo has a responsibility as a journalist to his readers to provide as accurate a story as he can. Regardless of what the average reader may or may not care about. That's his job. This also protects the paper and it's reputation and integrity. This also helps to make sure the paper maintains it's relationship with the Team. Which is just a little important too. If in fact the average reader didn't care,( as well as the Post), then Nunyo wouldn't be spending so much time defending it. No sir. He owes the reader better than to put out a story before it's ready in order to get a scoop. No matter how you or Nunyo try to rationalize what he did, it was wrong and now he's in the position he's in now.

Well according to Mortenson just now Coles has only agreed to give back money if he was released, he has not agreed to it yet if he is traded. So at the time he was right.

It makes since he is only going to give back the money when he can make it up in a new contract with a new team, if he is traded that team does not have to work a new deal unless they want too.

Not it makes sense why Gibbs was so mad since he must have been trying to work out an agreement for a trade which still is only if Coles gives back money.

Maybe he was defending his story so much is because he was right afterall.

[Westbrook36]

So if the Skins do wind up releasing Coles, will you all apologize for your comments towards him?

Gibbs is saying what he is to cover his butt and explore all his options. You all act like it's a slam dunk he will be traded now.

[Henry]

I think Gibbs is trying to do some damage control after it came out that Coles no longer wanted to be here. He could very well be released, but that may be because he is now virtually un-tradeable, thanks to Nunyo.

[Skins11]

Originally posted by Henry
I think Gibbs is trying to do some damage control after it came out that Coles no longer wanted to be here. He could very well be released, but that may be because he is now virtually un-tradeable, thanks to Nunyo.

I highly doubt he is untradeable, just as Keyshawn appeared to be last year. Gruden basically banished Keyshawn from the team last year. Keyshawn is older than Coles and is less talented, and is known to be a selfish player / headcase. It was clear that the Bucs were not going to have him back on the team under any circumstances. Yet the Bucs still got a trade out of it.

Surely we could get more than Joey Galloway, if it comes to it. And if nobody bites on the trade, we could always have him still play on the team. It has happened before. And it's not like teammates have openly hated Coles or anything, as they did with Meshawn.

[jbooma]

Originally posted by Henry
I think Gibbs is trying to do some damage control after it came out that Coles no longer wanted to be here. He could very well be released, but that may be because he is now virtually un-tradeable, thanks to Nunyo.

Like Skins11 said if Keyshawn could be traded anyone can. The issue though is if Coles agrees to the same deal, if not we can't trade him.

Henry are agents allowed to talk with other teams, like general conversation etc... curious how much an agent can actually say to others.

[Henry]

Untradeable's a strong word. However, if we don't trade him, and we were actively shopping him around, then I think it's safe to say his value lowered substantially enough that we couldn't get what we had hoped to before this story broke.

I'm sure we could get SOMETHING for him under practiaclly any circumstance. But that wasn't my point.

[wskin44]

Originally posted by jbooma


yes but does the average reader care about it, he can't just write his article for a particular fan, he has to right it for the average reader, and most only care if he is here or gone

we are different since we understand the game and all the inside stuff as well, the majority aren't like that

if that was something OM or Art would write for this site, then yes we would want all the details and all of them accurate, when you are writing for millions in this area, they don't care as much

since most of these readers will read the morning article, and then todays and be fine, they don't need the information now like we crave here

Average reporters create average readers. I haven't heard any theory as to why numbnuts called the agent 100 times to confirm the rumor, but apparently didn't bother to contact Joe Gibbs. Any takers?

[wskin44]

Originally posted by Westbrook36
So if the Skins do wind up releasing Coles, will you all apologize for your comments towards him?



Absolutely not. He had the opportunity to tell Gibbs that he was about to print a story that the Redskins were going to cut Coles and would Gibbs like to make a comment. He called Coles' agent "100 times" but didn't bother to call Gibbs? He owes us an apology.

[Neophyte]

Originally posted by Westbrook36
I don't understand why people are mad at the writer. Aren't you guys glad you know right now?

If Coles is ultimately not going to be with the team, and the guy did his homework, what is the beef? Is Gibbs so beyond reproach that if he gets pissed that a story got leaked, the messenger must be killed?

I think Gibbs and fans should be more upet then with the mole in the organization.

People are upset because this story being leaked at this point makes it very difficult to move Coles for any of any kind of real value, either in draft picks or players. Regardless of how good the info is or not, a reporter dropping this story without the home team's approval puts a real dent in that team's ability to do business.

He could have called Gibbs and said that he had the info but would like Gibbs permission to run with it. If Gibbs said he would prefer that it not hit the papers right now, trade not doing it now for an exclusive later when a deal is done.

What ever happened to "you scatch my back and I will scratch yours"?

[BadKarma]

My problem with Nunyo is that his "fresh gossip" undermines Coach Gibbs ability to manage this team. The fact that Coach has to have a press conference/news breifing to clarify his position in reference to Nunyo's most recent remarks is getting old. He is probably not even a fan of this team, the Post should fire him and bring in someone local who cares about the team.

[wskin44]

Originally posted by Neophyte


People are upset because this story being leaked at this point makes it very difficult to move Coles for any of any kind of real value, either in draft picks or players. Regardless of how good the info is or not, a reporter dropping this story without the home team's approval puts a real dent in that team's ability to do business.

He could have called Gibbs and said that he had the info but would like Gibbs permission to run with it. If Gibbs said he would prefer that it not hit the papers right now, trade not doing it now for an exclusive later when a deal is done.

What ever happened to "you scatch my back and I will scratch yours"?

Numbnuts was not required to do that. He just should have given Joe the opportunity to comment on the story before it was released.

On the other hand if I was the Post's Redskin reporter, I would be Joe's b _ tch.

:laugh:

[Westbrook36]

You are still all under the impression that Demasio or any reporter answers to Gibbs or the Redskins.

Reporters report news. That is their job. They don't have or have to have any loyalty towards a team.

[wskin44]

Originally posted by Westbrook36
You are still all under the impression that Demasio or any reporter answers to Gibbs or the Redskins.

Reporters report news. That is their job. They don't have or have to have any loyalty towards a team.

Not "all" of us. Some of us have made it clear that his job is to be loyal to accuracy, not the team.

[jbooma]

The fact the skins and post are not on good terms is maybe why they didn't try to get confirmation from Joe.

Now that the Post was able to scoop everyone, maybe joe will be kind to them again.

The funny thing is he should be kind to the post since no one cares about the WT.

[wskin44]

JG probably can't do anything about reporters, but he should be trying to smoke out whoever misled numbnuts in the first place.

[TK]

Originally posted by Westbrook36
The reporter's job is to report the truth as he knows it after researching it...not look after the best interests of the team.

His report, like it or not, is essentially true.



Originally posted by jbooma


yes but does the average reader care about it, he can't just write his article for a particular fan, he has to right it for the average reader, and most only care if he is here or gone

we are different since we understand the game and all the inside stuff as well, the majority aren't like that

if that was something OM or Art would write for this site, then yes we would want all the details and all of them accurate, when you are writing for millions in this area, they don't care as much

since most of these readers will read the morning article, and then todays and be fine, they don't need the information now like we crave here




Originally posted by Westbrook36
You are still all under the impression that Demasio or any reporter answers to Gibbs or the Redskins.

Reporters report news. That is their job. They don't have or have to have any loyalty towards a team.
Tell the truth. You two were seperated at birth, weren't you.


:rolleyes:

[jbooma]

Originally posted by TK-IV II I








Tell the truth. You two were seperated at birth, weren't you.


:rolleyes:

:laugh: :laugh:


nah he is an eagles fan, i rooted for the pats :D :point2sky

[Westbrook36]

I like Jbooma. He is a diehard fan but sees reality. I know part of the reason of a messageboard is to vent but we are misplacing our anger here.

Seriously, get mad at LC....but not the reporter..

[wskin44]

Originally posted by TK-IV II I








Tell the truth. You two were seperated at birth, weren't you.


:rolleyes:

They've reunited since then.

:smooch:

[rtandler]

Originally posted by DUSTINMFOX
I don't like it how Nunyo is trying to cover his ass by writing the statement that he tried to call Coles agent and he hung up on him......

To me that's bad reporting...
Dustin, he didn't write that, he said that to me on the phone. It didn't come across to me as CYA, just that Coles' agent didn't want the story out either.

If it pisses off both sides, it's probably a pretty good story, IMO.

[bulldog]

Coles and Gardner have nothing to complain about.

Neither player displayed great hands and leadership in 2004.

Coles dropped a mess of balls in the first 8 games, some of which were key to continuing drives to run the clock out on late leads.

Gardner just drops balls period. Every year, in every conceivable situation. Then he will make the outstanding one-handed leap near the sidelines and coast for another 2-3 quarters.

Brunell and Ramsey didn't combine to put up the best numbers in the NFL, but if Coles and Gardner were truly outstanding receivers playing consistently from week to week I am sure we would have seen more big plays in the passing game.

Just sometimes the best tonic for a quarterback lacking confidence is a wide open receiver in the clear for a score :D

We didn't see much of that in 2004, even in games where Portis was rushing for 150-160 yards as in Detroit.

THAT was a sign more was wrong with this offense than merely the qbs.

[rtandler]

I apologize for poor board etiquette here in double responding, but there are some things that need to be addressed here:


Basically Nunyon lowered Coles' trade value.
No, Coles lowered Coles' trade value. You don't think that if the phone rang and it was the Redskins on the other end and they were shopping Coles that the other team wouldn't get pretty suspicious that Coles was disgruntled?

And I won't blame Gibbs a bit - the media is SOOO much worse than it was his last go around.
Battles between coaches and the press have been around forever. George Allen would have banished the whole DC press corps from a 500-yard radious of the team at all times if he could have. News stories that the team would rather not come out have been getting printed ever since sports first appeared in newspapers.

I haven't heard any theory as to why numbnuts called the agent 100 times to confirm the rumor, but apparently didn't bother to contact Joe Gibbs. Any takers?
Sure, here's one. Demasio did talk to Gibbs about Coles being unhappy at Redskins Park last Wednesday. At the time, he did not have solid information about a potential release, so he did not ask Gibss about it. Gibbs was in Daytona over the weekend and could not be reached for comment. Demasio did indicate that he would have gone with the story in Monday's paper even if Gibbs had issued the same denial on Sunday as he did on Monday.

So, you got the same thing only in a different order.

He is probably not even a fan of this team, the Post should fire him and bring in someone local who cares about the team.
I doubt that he his, but "caring" about the team should not be a resume enhancer for the job. What, do you only want Republicans reporting on the president or retired executives reporting in the business section?

Demasio talked to me about the the nexus of the Coles story because he wanted to get the facts from his perspective out there. You now have them and you can decide what you think based on more complete information.

[bulldog]

let's be honest here.

we can find TIGHT ENDS that can average better than 10.6 yards per reception for us.

Coles is by no means a 'must have' player for this team in 2005.

all the subsidiary noise about how the news was released and who is to blame for it is irrelevant.

Coles clearly has a problem with the Redskins and in turn the Redskins have issues with Coles.

Better for all involved for Coles to have a change in scenery.

I know I don't want to see him back in 2005 :cheers:

[jbooma]

Originally posted by rtandler
I apologize for poor board etiquette here in double responding, but there are some things that need to be addressed here:


No, Coles lowered Coles' trade value. You don't think that if the phone rang and it was the Redskins on the other end and they were shopping Coles that the other team wouldn't get pretty suspicious that Coles was disgruntled?

Battles between coaches and the press have been around forever. George Allen would have banished the whole DC press corps from a 500-yard radious of the team at all times if he could have. News stories that the team would rather not come out have been getting printed ever since sports first appeared in newspapers.

Sure, here's one. Demasio did talk to Gibbs about Coles being unhappy at Redskins Park last Wednesday. At the time, he did not have solid information about a potential release, so he did not ask Gibss about it. Gibbs was in Daytona over the weekend and could not be reached for comment. Demasio did indicate that he would have gone with the story in Monday's paper even if Gibbs had issued the same denial on Sunday as he did on Monday.

So, you got the same thing only in a different order.

I doubt that he his, but "caring" about the team should not be a resume enhancer for the job. What, do you only want Republicans reporting on the president or retired executives reporting in the business section?

Demasio talked to me about the the nexus of the Coles story because he wanted to get the facts from his perspective out there. You now have them and you can decide what you think based on more complete information.


No need to apoligize :cheers:

[Park City Skins]

I've been the harshist of critics of what he wrote rt and though I appreciate the interview you did and that you posted it, I still am. I've read many times a story where a reporter has in fact stated : " Repeated attempts to contact so and so for the story failed" or something like that. My problem is still this. Joe didn't just call the story, or at least the release part "inaccurate", he called it "untrue." That's heavy duty in the world of journalism from what I understand. That tells me that Nunyo may have wanted to sit on this a bit longer until he could in fact call coach Gibbs when he was available. I also have a problem with his use of a quote of Joe's in roughly 3 different ways depending on what the angle of the story is. Maybe just me but I expect better. And I still stand by the fact that if it was in fact that cut and dry, and Nunyo feels as strongly as he does about the story, he wouldn't have to defend it as much. Rare is the time I've seen a reporter go to these lengths to defend a story. Again, just mho.

[Tarhog]

Originally posted by Westbrook36
So if the Skins do wind up releasing Coles, will you all apologize for your comments towards him?

Gibbs is saying what he is to cover his butt and explore all his options. You all act like it's a slam dunk he will be traded now.

I don't generally engage in bashing of opposing fans Westbrook -but honestly, what the hell is any of this to you? I find your comments in this thread really irritating. Am I the only one?

What happens to Coles would effect you or your team how? I'm not getting your interest here.....

[Park City Skins]

Just saw that quote Tarhog and I'm with you. Westbrook. You calling Joe Gibbs a liar?

[rtandler]

PCS, the contacting the Skins thing was a loose end in my account that I intended to ask him about but didn't get to. I've sent him a request for a follow up and when I get that back I'll post it here.

[Park City Skins]

Thanks as always RT. :)

[Westbrook36]

Originally posted by Park City Skins
Just saw that quote Tarhog and I'm with you. Westbrook. You calling Joe Gibbs a liar?

No, not at all. Apologize if I came off heavy handed. My opinion was basically what Henry said right after me.

It's coach speak....not really giving up what your true intentions are while keeping all your options open.

[jbooma]

Originally posted by Park City Skins
Just saw that quote Tarhog and I'm with you. Westbrook. You calling Joe Gibbs a liar?

PCS I don't think that is what he meant and even Gibbs saying what he did yesterday even if what Nunyo wrote he isn't liar. He had to deny it because of the position they are in.

If you want to get technical with his words, then what did you think of it when he said Johnson was going to be a skin, and then traded him the next day, is he lying then??

He has to say that, but he isn't lying he is defending his team.

Nunyo had to defend himself because the Skins must have put some heat on the Post, however even Mort said the same thing that Coles had only agreed to giving money back if released not traded. It might not have been until yesterday or today where he might have agreed to the same thing but in a trade, we don't know.

[Park City Skins]

Thanks booma, but westbrook already cleared that up. Thanks for playing though, ( that means butt the hell out).

[bubba9497]

Originally posted by rtandler
I apologize for poor board etiquette here in double responding, but there are some things that need to be addressed here:


No, Coles lowered Coles' trade value. You don't think that if the phone rang and it was the Redskins on the other end and they were shopping Coles that the other team wouldn't get pretty suspicious that Coles was disgruntled?

Battles between coaches and the press have been around forever. George Allen would have banished the whole DC press corps from a 500-yard radious of the team at all times if he could have. News stories that the team would rather not come out have been getting printed ever since sports first appeared in newspapers.

Sure, here's one. Demasio did talk to Gibbs about Coles being unhappy at Redskins Park last Wednesday. At the time, he did not have solid information about a potential release, so he did not ask Gibss about it. Gibbs was in Daytona over the weekend and could not be reached for comment. Demasio did indicate that he would have gone with the story in Monday's paper even if Gibbs had issued the same denial on Sunday as he did on Monday.

So, you got the same thing only in a different order.

I doubt that he his, but "caring" about the team should not be a resume enhancer for the job. What, do you only want Republicans reporting on the president or retired executives reporting in the business section?

Demasio talked to me about the the nexus of the Coles story because he wanted to get the facts from his perspective out there. You now have them and you can decide what you think based on more complete information.


I agree with you on all of this :cheers:


plus there's no bashig or hidden agenda like with some national sports :puke: writers. A journalists job is to unearth stories, to sell papers. After being scooped by the WT all last season, he'd be unemployed if he sat on this story.

[Tarhog]

Originally posted by rtandler
Battles between coaches and the press have been around forever. George Allen would have banished the whole DC press corps from a 500-yard radious of the team at all times if he could have. News stories that the team would rather not come out have been getting printed ever since sports first appeared in newspapers.

I agree with you here. And calling 'Bull****' at stories one thinks are borderline accurate, biased, or unfair is also a tradition - equally time-honored. No one should begrudge the Redskins or Coach Gibbs the right.


[i]Sure, here's one. Demasio did talk to Gibbs about Coles being unhappy at Redskins Park last Wednesday. At the time, he did not have solid information about a potential release, so he did not ask Gibss about it. Gibbs was in Daytona over the weekend and could not be reached for comment. Demasio did indicate that he would have gone with the story in Monday's paper even if Gibbs had issued the same denial on Sunday as he did on Monday.

Thats a pretty lame duck he's trying to get to fly. Gibbs could not be reached for comment? Was a comet hurtling towards Earth and its imminent destruction over the weekend that I missed that made it impossible for him to give the Redskins a chance to respond/confirm? That rings pretty hollow to my ears.


[i]I doubt that he his, but "caring" about the team should not be a resume enhancer for the job. What, do you only want Republicans reporting on the president or retired executives reporting in the business section?

True, but by going out on a limb with what is, at best, an unsubtantiated unconfirmed (at least by authoritative sources) story, didn't he risk 'becoming the news' instead of just reporting it? If this 'scoop' impacts our franchise, roster, and financial picture, its not just objective journalism, is it?

As a journalist, of course he's free to put out any story his employer's feel justified and appropriate. But just as Nunyo might decide not to return your phone calls were you to say something publicly that put him in a tight spot, he shouldn't protest if the Redskins refuse to speak to him or his paper in the near future.

I don't have anything against the guy. I just think the story was less than rock-solid and shouldn't have been green-lighted. Just because you 'can' doesn't always mean you 'should'. I have a feeling the short-term payoff isn't going to be justified by the long-term cost in terms of access and trust he's likely cashed in.

[bubba9497]

Originally posted by Park City Skins
. You calling Joe Gibbs a liar?

Liar no way


but he can word statements better than a high priced NY lawyer :laugh:

[jbooma]

Originally posted by Park City Skins
Thanks booma, but westbrook already cleared that up. Thanks for playing though, ( that means butt the hell out).

my bad, just don't want to see a fight in here, we all need a hug it has been a looooooooooooooooooooooooooong couple of days and FA hasn't even started yet :D


plus Maryland just CHOKED to Clemson :doh:

[jbooma]

Originally posted by bubba9497


Liar no way


but he can word statements better than a high priced NY lawyer :laugh:

No kidding, that one hour radio special they had on WJFK was nothing but that. I think in one hour he answered maybe 3 questions if that, I loved how he changed the subject midway through a tough question.

I have to say though I do miss Spurrier using the same answer all the time, "thats something we might look at"

[rtandler]

And calling 'Bull****' at stories one thinks are borderline accurate, biased, or unfair is also a tradition - equally time-honored. No one should begrudge the Redskins or Coach Gibbs the right.
No doubt, Tarhog. In my story I did recount that Demasio and Gibbs had talked about Gibbs remarks and that they basically told each other that they repsected the other guy for just doig his job. Even Nunyo doesn't begrudge Gibbs the right to say what he has to say.

Thats a pretty lame duck he's trying to get to fly.
Let me clarify again that this was just my impression and I'm getting in touch with Nunyo again to try to clarify it. When I know about this key point, you'll know.


True, but by going out on a limb with what is, at best, an unsubtantiated unconfirmed (at least by authoritative sources) story, didn't he risk 'becoming the news' instead of just reporting it?
I'm not exactly sure which part of this story is unsubstantiated. ESPN's Mort has also reported that there was a prospective deal to have Coles return a part of his signing bonus in return for his release. Does the possibility--possibiity, mind you since this story has not yet played out--that this might not happen render the whole story an out on the limb, irresponsible piece of journalism?

[Park City Skins]

Oh and Booma. You are either mispresenting what happened with Johnson or don't remember correctly. Either way, signficant differences in the 2 that makes it, for the most part , an irrelevant comparison.

[Tarhog]

Like I said Rich, I honestly don't have a hard-on for Demasio - it didn't even make me blink yesterday when I read his initial story.

But in my mind, the only way a story like this gets substantiated is by having those truly in the know confirm it before it sees ink. I understand that journalists often have to get their information via less direct sources. Whether what Demasio predicted ultimately comes to fruition or not, I don't believe he knew what he wrote to be absolute fact when it was published. I think he knew something was up and obviously there was something to it - I'm much less certain he got the story accurate.

I'm torn - I'm not of the opinion that Gibbs, Snyder, anyone in the franchise is above questioning, and they shouldn't get any special favors. But I do think giving them a real chance to respond was the class thing to do here. To quote another WP article talking to unnamed NFL sources 'According to several GMs, the possibility that Coles could be released could also affect his trade value'. Demasio's story is going to impact what happens here, one way or another, and I don't think that was necessary just to get an exclusive.

Then again, thats why I'd never make it as a journalist :)

I do appreciate the insight and access you bring here though - don't misunderstand that! I bought your books :laugh:

[jbooma]

Originally posted by Park City Skins
Oh and Booma. You are either mispresenting what happened with Johnson or don't remember correctly. Either way, signficant differences in the 2 that makes it, for the most part , an irrelevant comparison.

i can live with that, i thought he said something like we are keeping him and then they traded him, don't remember completely

[bubba9497]

But in my mind, the only way a story like this gets substantiated is by having those truly in the know confirm it before it sees ink


where would the WP be if it waited on Nixon to substantiate his involement in Watergate


:laugh:


you know what I mean

[TK]

Tarhog

Check your e-mail.
:)

[Tarhog]

Originally posted by bubba9497



where would the WP be if it waited on Nixon to substantiate his involement in Watergate


:laugh:


you know what I mean

Give me a break - I didn't realize Demasio was trying to safeguard the integrity of our precious democratic system bubba - I figured he might just be trying to make a splash.

Sorry man, while I can live with the loss of Coles if it comes to it, theres a serious possibility we're going to get short-shrifted on this deal, and it may prove to be in large part due to the 'outing' of this story. That should concern Redskin's fans.

[jbooma]

Originally posted by Tarhog


Give me a break - I didn't realize Demasio was trying to safeguard the integrity of our precious democratic system bubba - I figured he might just be trying to make a splash.

Sorry man, while I can live with the loss of Coles if it comes to it, theres a serious possibility we're going to get short-shrifted on this deal, and it may prove to be in large part due to the 'outing' of this story. That should concern Redskin's fans.

Maybe, but what concerns me more is our FO still looks like the laughing stock in the league. How do you let that be slipped to the press??

[Tarhog]

Thanks TK - great news :cheers:

jbooma - heres the thing - how do you know it wasn't Coles himself or another disgruntled player who leaked this? Is Gibbs supposed to muzzle them as well?

[rtandler]

I did get a clarification from Nunyo and he did make multiple efforts to get the principles in the story to react to it before it hit the presses. First, from the original article Monday morning:

Coles, who has changed his cell phone number, could not be reached for comment. Barnes didn't return several calls last week to his Roanoke, Ind., office. Snyder, through spokesperson Karl Swanson, referred questions to Gibbs. Reached last night, Cerrato declined to comment.
In fact, Vinny gave him a triple "no comment, no comment, no comment."

Now, I was incorrect in inferring that the story would have gone through even if Gibbs' flat denial had been issued over the phone on Sunday, before the release story was printed. Demasio told me:

If Gibbs denied the release stuff, the story would have just been that Coles is unhappy and unlikely coming back -- instead of being more specific on how he would be jettisoned

Demasio also told me that he tried to get comments from Breaux and Bugel. He pressed them and they told him to talk to Gibbs.

So, there you have it. Demasio tried to get comments from Snyder, Cerrato, Bugel, Breaux, Coles, and Coles' agent. For various reasons, he couldn't.

True, he could have waited until Gibbs got back in town. However, it was pretty obvious that the paper would have been scooped had he done this. Again, you can decide if he conducted due dillegence here.

A couple more comments from Demasio:

Perhaps my reporting damaged the team, but i still don't know exactly how, and it wasn't my intention. as you could see by how many people i spoke to, my preference was to work with the team. If coles' leaving was inevitable -- and old news among some guys (players) -- did the skins expect the story to stay quiet until coles was officially gone?

And this about having a stake in the success of the team a writer is covering:

Here's the deal: it's actually EASIER to cover a team that wins. As a beat writer you WANT the team you cover to win, although you're not supposed to root for them. It makes it more fun to go in the locker room.
HOWEVER, when the team you cover is struggling and there are newsworthy stories like Coles, you need to write it. if not, you're doing a disservice to your paper, your readers and yourself. And you need to find another job.

There it is. Again, you decide.

[TK]

Off Topic

Is that releaseable? Or should it wait?

On topic

Jb, do you know how to uncover a leak?

[rtandler]

heres the thing - how do you know it wasn't Coles himself or another disgruntled player who leaked this? Is Gibbs supposed to muzzle them as well?
I really don't want to keep beating this up, Tarhog, but look at the original article and at mine. This came from multiple sources on the "team" side of it and from some on the player's side of it. It wasn't like one guy gave Demasio a call and that make the Post run with a story like this.

[jbooma]

Originally posted by Tarhog
Thanks TK - great news :cheers:

jbooma - heres the thing - how do you know it wasn't Coles himself or another disgruntled player who leaked this? Is Gibbs supposed to muzzle them as well?

I don't know Tarhog, but Nunyo said he had one source on coles side and one on the skins side, and he said it wasn't coles.

To me one is the agent for sure.

If I had the answers maybe I would be the GM. For something this large and important he has to think of something. If there are only four people in the room and that is all that knows what is going on make a demand saying if this is leaked then no deal at all. If this was made clear to Coles's side and if he wants out, why would he risk this deal??

[Tarhog]

Thanks for the additional insight. I feel a little more sympathetic having read those comments. I wouldn't want his job to be frank. You've got competing interests all over the place....promote positive relationships - positive relationships translate into access....get as much access as you can in order to trump our competitors, but don't violate trusts or burn bridges with ownership....

I couldn't handle it. Thats a hell of a ethical canal system to navigate.

I wish he'd just gone with the 'something is afoot' theme and left the rest for the Redskins to clarify. But I'm not going to condemn him for it. We all make judgement calls in our daily jobs. Sometimes you get the bear, sometimes the bear gets you. It remains to be seen who the bear is here.

Thanks Rich. :cheers:

[jbooma]

Originally posted by TK-IV II I
Off Topic

Is that releaseable? Or should it wait?

On topic

Jb, do you know how to uncover a leak?


In the business world yes, in the sports world no. You give certain information to a certain individual who you think will talk and wait till you hear what you want to hear. If your suspicions are correct then you will know.

For Gibbs, you set up a meeting with Vinny and Danny and say something so off the wall and tell them both not to mention anything.

Then when Nunyo reports it in the paper, Gibbs can laugh as he cleans out Vinny's office :laugh: (sorry but it was too easy)

[Park City Skins]

I believe Nunyo refered to his sources as those in the "inner circle" of both parties in yesterdays interview on WTEM. Coles can leak this easily if he wants. He's not stupid. Simply have a few friends and/or aqquaintances be available for comment. Next thing you know.

[bubba9497]

Originally posted by Tarhog


Give me a break - I didn't realize Demasio was trying to safeguard the integrity of our precious democratic system bubba - I figured he might just be trying to make a splash.

Sorry man, while I can live with the loss of Coles if it comes to it, theres a serious possibility we're going to get short-shrifted on this deal, and it may prove to be in large part due to the 'outing' of this story. That should concern Redskin's fans.


lighten up dude :) I was making an exaggerated point ;)

my point he had enough evidence to have the story printed, if he had gotten a hold of Gibbs or Coles he would have gotten the run around or a no comment.


this story did squat to under-mind the Skins trade value. There was nothing reported that any other teams GM didn't already know when Coles was put on the trading block, and probably still know more than we do after the story broke.

[Tarhog]

Originally posted by rtandler

I really don't want to keep beating this up, Tarhog, but look at the original article and at mine. This came from multiple sources on the "team" side of it and from some on the player's side of it. It wasn't like one guy gave Demasio a call and that make the Post run with a story like this.

I was just pointing out to jbooma that Gibbs shouldn't be held accountable for whats leaked and whats not.

Ultimately journalists live and die on credibility - if this all turns out to be accurate, I'll tip my hat and apologize as no journalist owes the subject of their stories anything to an extent. If its less than factual though, and they went with it anyway to the Redskins detriment, thats a little bit different.

Either way, I appreciate your comments Rich!

[Tarhog]

Originally posted by bubba9497



lighten up dude :) I was making an exaggerated point ;)

my point he had enough evidence to have the story printed, if he had gotten a hold of Gibbs or Coles he would have gotten the run around or a no comment.


this story did squat to under-mind the Skins trade value. There was nothing reported that any other teams GM didn't already know when Coles was put on the trading block, and probably still know more than we do after the story broke.


exaggerated is the key word there :)

(hope the smiley made you feel better!)

[BadKarma]

Is Nunyo's BIO available? I searched but could not find it.

[bubba9497]

Originally posted by Tarhog



(hope the smiley made you feel better!)

:adoration much

[jbooma]

Originally posted by Tarhog


I was just pointing out to jbooma that Gibbs shouldn't be held accountable for whats leaked and whats not.

Ultimately journalists live and die on credibility - if this all turns out to be accurate, I'll tip my hat and apologize as no journalist owes the subject of their stories anything to an extent. If its less than factual though, and they went with it anyway to the Redskins detriment, thats a little bit different.

Either way, I appreciate your comments Rich!

I agree with you here, specially if the leak was outside his area, however if the leak was from someone he knows in the FO then that is a different story. A lot of times the FO would leak something they wanted, but it was clear Gibbs did not want this out.

[bubba9497]

Originally posted by BadKarma
Is Nunyo's BIO available? I searched but could not find it.

from Seattle and the :doh: NBA beat

[FBChick]

Man... It's taken a long time to catch up on 2 days worth of this story, but it's amazing.

First and foremost... I don't blame Demasio for breaking the story, but in some respects he had some very bad wording to give it the spin he needed to sell papers... so calling it objective is far off base. But to be honest, it's all the other papers that have stolen the story from the WP that have spun it even worse.

Digesting two days worth of panic post has been an interesting Endeavour.

Fact is both sides are right and wrong on this. You can’t really blame Demasio for breaking the story. It is his job and it’s a huge scoop, especially based on the reaction it’s getting. But he did word it in a very biased and twisted manner to make it sound a bit more then it probably is.

He would do his best to accommodate the request

FACT: “Laveranues Coles has had at least two extensive conversations with Coach Joe Gibbs since the season ended”

Part fact/ part somebody’s speculation: Sources confirmed last night that Gibbs, Redskins owner Daniel Snyder and Roosevelt Barnes, the agent for Coles, have reached an oral agreement that will likely lead to his release

Fact - "We had a couple of good talks. That's the only statement I want to make," Gibbs said earlier this week. "Me and Laveranues talked, and we have a good understanding."

Can we really even call this a fact? - Gibbs, who also serves as team president, intends to accommodate Coles' request instead of keeping a player who prefers to be elsewhere, said two other sources who requested anonymity.

Fact at some point in time, but he doesn’t clarify who was in on the collective decision and when this was done. Before Cole talks, During Cole talks, or after Coles Talks? It makes a big difference when you add a who and a when –

“Sources said that late this past season Coles requested a trade after meeting with Snyder and Vice President of Football Operations Vinny Cerrato, since they were the two most responsible for acquiring him in 2003. But after discussions with Gibbs, a collective decision was made to likely waive Coles.”

I read a LOT of likelys... which to me means not a DAMN thing was in stone yet. But rumors like these tend to have a bit of truth hidden in them somewhere.

I do believe Demasio was right with the premise of his article. Coles wants to go elsewhere and is willing to try and work things to make it happen. He wants to go badly enough he threw around the idea of giving up part of the signing bonus to make it cap friendly enough to make it happen. But had this been officially agreed to, they’d be writing contracts and the deal would be done. This leads me to believe that at best Coles got a “we’ll see what we can do and we’ll try our best to accommodate your wishes, so long as we can find a way to not hurt the team.” This is where all the “likely” words come from. There was no final decision... it was an agreement to see if they could come up with a solution.

All the rumors about the Jets talking a trade with Coles are also true in a sense. I bet somewhere in those talks names of teams he would consider going to came up and the wheeler, dealers thought “HEY! If we can work out both a trade for a pick or a player, plus get salary cap relief... let’s do it!” Call it greedy, call it smart, call it whatever you want. They saw a silver lining and they reached for it. I imagine they would have asked Coles for approval of the team before finalizing the trade, especially considering this only works with a restructure from Coles. This is what Demasio’s article could have possibly ruined, but Gibb’s denial was in an effort to salvage the talks with the Jets... and in effect to the original article was correct. If they were looking at trades then the “likely to release” quotes were/ are essentially wrong.

But the better question, rather then who’s to blame, is where we are now, and how things can/ would proceed. Can talks with the Jets be salvaged? Will Gibbs and Co be able to get Coles to agree to a trade deal if one surfaces in time? If no trade, do we still release him and will he still give back the signing bonus? If so... then when?

It’s obvious an outright release with no repay in time for FA isn’t going to happen... We can’t afford it. A release with no repay after June 1 is possible but makes 2006 painful at best and may mean Brunell manages to hang on for another year! (uugghh!) Keeping him is still there, a “source” has stated he’d play and give it his all... but would the complication be too much for the locker room? Especially now that it’s all out in the open.

At least we can now say we have something to talk about this off-season!

[rtandler]

And thanks to you, Tarhog, for taking it all in :cheers:

I'm sure that this is coming across that I'm carrying Nunyo's water for him but all I want to do, and I keep on repeating this, but it's the Fox News line about giving you enough information to decide what's up.

And I personally found it interesting to see how a story like this develops over time.

I also think that Redskins fans and Post readers should have some appreciation for the fact that Demasio thought that is was important to take the time to respond to the questions that many of us had about his story. He could have taken the road that most other Post reporters take, that he's high and mighty and how dare the masses question his story.

Instead, he spoke to a blogger for an audience of message board posters, thinking that it was important to communicate with us, the everyday Redskins fans.

I like that but, once again, you decide.

[jbooma]

Originally posted by rtandler


Instead, he spoke to a blogger for an audience of message board posters, thinking that it was important to communicate with us, the everyday Redskins fans.

I like that but, once again, you decide.

Yes but he should have talked to us at least, we are the real fans :D

[wskin44]

Originally posted by Tarhog
Thanks for the additional insight. I feel a little more sympathetic having read those comments. I wouldn't want his job to be frank. You've got competing interests all over the place....promote positive relationships - positive relationships translate into access....get as much access as you can in order to trump our competitors, but don't violate trusts or burn bridges with ownership....

I couldn't handle it. Thats a hell of a ethical canal system to navigate.

I wish he'd just gone with the 'something is afoot' theme and left the rest for the Redskins to clarify. But I'm not going to condemn him for it. We all make judgement calls in our daily jobs. Sometimes you get the bear, sometimes the bear gets you. It remains to be seen who the bear is here.

Thanks Rich. :cheers:

Just catching up. Tarhog says it pretty well here. Two things bother me though: Nunyo says that he doesn't understand the implications of writing a story that claims inside knowledge that a player is about to be cut, when in fact according to the team they are trying to work out a trade. What was true at the time of the story we may never know, but Nunyo should know that there is a difference.

Second, although he tried to ask everyone at Redskin Park about the rumor everyone directed him to Joe Gibbs. That should have told him that regardless of who whispered what to him, Joe Gibbs was the only one who knew the whole story other than Coles and his agent. Nunyo wrote his article as a done deal without ever getting confirmation from any of the parties who could have known the truth. And he wrote it apparently without understanding the implications. Neither speaks well for him.

As Tarhog says, "Sometimes you get the beer, sometimes someone gets the beer for you" (or something like that). This time we owe a beer to Rich.

:cheers: