Sci-Fi.com - Report: Passion Spurs Attacks

[pez]

Report: Passion Spurs Attacks

Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ spurred an upsurge last year in Canadian anti-Semitic attacks, the League for Human Rights of B'nai B'rith told The Hollywood Reporter. In its 2004 audit of anti-Semitic attacks in Canada, the group reported that media coverage of Gibson's film and its alleged depiction of Jews as the "Christ killer" led to a spike in attacks against the Canadian Jewish community.

"Whereas only nine incidents in 2003 had religious connotations to the story of Jesus' death, there were 32 such incidents in 2004, nine of them in February when the movie opened and a further 15 in the three months following its release," the B'nai B'rith study reported.

In a statement, B'nai B'rith Canada vice president Frank Dimant said incidents of anti-Semitism last year reached an all-time high and were becoming more violent, the trade paper reported.

The B'nai B'rith audit cited instances last year in which a Montreal caller to a Jewish organization exclaimed, "We don't need Mel Gibson's film to hate you!" A synagogue in Thornhill, Ontario, was defaced with crosses, and a minister on a local Toronto TV channel alleged there was a "Jewish plot for world control."

http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire2005/index.php?category=0&id=30613

[Henry]

Not that I don't believe the report ... but why is scifi.com reporting this? That's a little odd.

[pez]

I really have no idea... usually they only report on "sci-fi" movies... I thought it was kinda interesting about the spike though...

[TC4]

Originally posted by Henry
Not that I don't believe the report ... but why is scifi.com reporting this? That's a little odd.

I was thinking the very same thing :rolleyes:

[Zen-like Todd]

Its a wire story, its all over the place.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/cpress/20050315/ca_pr_on_na/anti_semitism_report_3

http://film.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/Guardian/0,4029,1438949,00.html?gusrc=rss

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/LondonFreePress/News/2005/03/16/962592-sun.html

etc, etc.

[Johnny Punani2]

oh boy, here we go again...

Mel Gibson is Hilter right?

[Henry]

Yeah Johnny. Heaven forbid Jews voice concern based on historical precedent about the potential rise in anti-Semitism stemming from a Passion performance, and then have the nerve to point out that it in fact did happen.

A spike in anti-Jewish incidents is no big deal. Those Jews should just sit down and shut up, right?

[TC4]

Originally posted by Henry
Yeah Johnny. Heaven forbid Jews voice concern based on historical precedent about the potential rise in anti-Semitism stemming from a Passion performance, and then have the nerve to point out that it in fact did happen.

A spike in anti-Jewish incidents is no big deal. Those Jews should just sit down and shut up, right?

No one is saying that Henry

The problem is that there are non-Jewish people who call to attention the anti-Semitic stuff to knock the movie itself due to the fact that they have an anti-religious agenda, which is a bit hypocitical

[Henry]

Before the movie was released, Jewish groups voiced concerned, because historically Passion Plays have been known to incite violence against Jews. This was largely dismissed by Gibson and his supporters as paranoid sensitiivity.

Now, a Jewish group is noting a significant increase in violence against Jews directly following the release of this movie, and this means they have a hypocritical anti-religious agenda?

[Johnny Punani2]

Originally posted by Henry
Yeah Johnny. Heaven forbid Jews voice concern based on historical precedent about the potential rise in anti-Semitism stemming from a Passion performance, and then have the nerve to point out that it in fact did happen.

A spike in anti-Jewish incidents is no big deal. Those Jews should just sit down and shut up, right?

Wow, talk about putting words in people's mouths. :rolleyes:

[Mad Mike]

Jewish students were targeted in 47 incidents, often linked to anti-Israel or antiwar events.

Almost one-third of all incidents occurred in March and April, when Israel launched countermeasures against terrorist groups in the Palestinian territory. Klein said that seemed to fall in line with a historical pattern surrounding Israeli military activity.

"We've often found in the past that whenever there's increased tension in the Middle East, Jews in this country are targeted by people who are acting out on their anti-Israel anger," said Klein.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/cpress/20050315/ca_pr_on_na/anti_semitism_report_3

So. Having established at least one alternative reason for the increase, I haven't seen one bit of direct evidence that the violence was a product of the movie.

Are we sure it's not the result of some violent video game? :rolleyes:

And before we get all hot and bothered and somone accuses me of being anti semetic or some other such nonsense. I do care, and I would like to see the violence stop. I'm just not ready to break out the torches and lead an angry mob to Mell GIbson's house.

[Burgold]

Has there been a video game recently promoting the hunting of Jews?

I'm always a little suspiscous of the "Star Trek" incites violence, watching cartoons promotes increased violence stuff. Still, directed violence (violence that is targeted after a group) needs to be paid attention to. I don't think that Gibson's movie caused it, but it may have contributed to the actions by adding motivation or giving an excuse.

Sadly, we as a world culture let this stuff go on all the time. Rawanda, Serbia, Iraq (Kurds) Ethiopia, etc. When it starts people are dismissive of the incidents and then as it blooms larger and larger we turn a blind eye, until finally things are completely catastrophic and something is done. Not saying this is the case here, but pebbles can lead to an avalanche and it is better to be aware than dismissive.

[Taylor 36]

Originally posted by pez
"In its 2004 audit of anti-Semitic attacks in Canada, the group reported that media coverage of Gibson's film and its alleged depiction of Jews as the "Christ killer" led to a spike in attacks against the Canadian Jewish community."


http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire2005/index.php?category=0&id=30613

It says "media coverage" was blamed, not the film itself. And, yes, I do care about this issue; I'm Jewish, but this report states in the first paragraph that it was the media, not the film and then goes on to list other incidents that may have caused this spike.

[Johnny Punani2]

Originally posted by Taylor 36


It says "media coverage" was blamed, not the film itself. And, yes, I do care about this issue; I'm Jewish, but this report states in the first paragraph that it was the media, not the film and then goes on to list other incidents that may have caused this spike.

I agree. I think the Palestinian problem and the negative media coverage by some outlets in the West have far more to do with increased violence then The Passion.

[Zen-like Todd]

Originally posted by Mad Mike


http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/cpress/20050315/ca_pr_on_na/anti_semitism_report_3

So. Having established at least one alternative reason for the increase, I haven't seen one bit of direct evidence that the violence was a product of the movie.

Are we sure it's not the result of some violent video game? :rolleyes:

And before we get all hot and bothered and somone accuses me of being anti semetic or some other such nonsense. I do care, and I would like to see the violence stop. I'm just not ready to break out the torches and lead an angry mob to Mell GIbson's house.

I'm shocked. You're a pretty smart guy, but this is as dense a post I've seen coming from your keyboard. The Passion was released in the last week of February 2004, and did most of its box office in March and April. The blather about countermeasures is nonsensical, the "intifadah" was far more violent and eventful in 2002-2003, and yet we see a drastic increase in anti-semitic attacks in 2004.

No one cares if you get all hot and bothered. But trivializing the rise in anti-semitism (all over the world actually, not just in canada) is not a constructive response.

[Henry]

Originally posted by Johnny Punani


Wow, talk about putting words in people's mouths. :rolleyes:

A perfect example would be to say B'nai B'rith of Canada stated Mel Gibson is Hitler.

[Mad Mike]

Originally posted by Burgold
Has there been a video game recently promoting the hunting of Jews?



Did Gibbson's film promote the hunting of Jews? :doh:

[Johnny Punani2]

Originally posted by Henry


A perfect example would be to say B'nai B'rith of Canada stated Mel Gibson is Hitler.

Did I ever imply that? No

[Mad Mike]

Originally posted by Zen-like Todd


I'm shocked. You're a pretty smart guy, but this is as dense a post I've seen coming from your keyboard.

Back at ya. :laugh:


The Passion was released in the last week of February 2004, and did most of its box office in March and April. The blather about countermeasures is nonsensical, the "intifadah" was far more violent and eventful in 2002-2003, and yet we see a drastic increase in anti-semitic attacks in 2004.

No one cares if you get all hot and bothered. But trivializing the rise in anti-semitism (all over the world actually, not just in canada) is not a constructive response.

I'm not the one stating that the violence was linked to events in israel... That was the reason given in one of the news stories on the current rise in violence.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=sto...mitism_report_3

Jewish students were targeted in 47 incidents, often linked to anti-Israel or antiwar events.

almost one-third of all incidents occurred in March and April, when Israel launched countermeasures against terrorist groups in the Palestinian territory. Klein said that seemed to fall in line with a historical pattern surrounding Israeli military activity.

If you have a problem with it go complain to them.:doh:

And I didn't tivialize anything. I said I WAS AGAINST THE VIOLENCE.

One more thing. Has anyone noticed that the problem seems to be localized in Canada? (not trivializing lesser violence elsewhere - for the sensitive folks) Wasn't the film released world wide? Anyone notice a similar increase in anti semetic violence here in the US? Seems to me you would be able to trace the violence to every where the film was shown if in fact the film caused the violence.

[pez]

Whoa guys.. didn't mean to start such a whoo haa..

I posted the article, because it provided one sides view (not everyone has to accept it) that there MAY be a coorrelation between the movie's release and an increse in anti-semetic violence. I myself am not jewish, I am christian, and I was deeply impacted by the movie..But I do think there MAY be people out there that this movie may have just sent over the edge. Yes the violence could also be related to events in the middle-east, I myself don't think that is the direct connection, but hey everyone is entitled to their opinion.

[Zen-like Todd]

Originally posted by Mad Mike


Back at ya. :laugh:



I'm not the one stating that the violence was linked to events in israel... That was the reason given in one of the news stories on the current rise in violence.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=sto...mitism_report_3


If you have a problem with it go complain to them.:doh:

And I didn't tivialize anything. I said I WAS AGAINST THE VIOLENCE.

One more thing. Has anyone noticed that the problem seems to be localized in Canada? (not trivializing lesser violence elsewhere - for the sensitive folks) Wasn't the film released world wide? Anyone notice a similar increase in anti semetic violence here in the US? Seems to me you would be able to trace the violence to every where the film was shown if in fact the film caused the violence.

How absurd. You picked out a silly quote from the article and then hinged your position on it. Back up your position. Quote and run doesnt cut it here. And to follow it up with the HUGELY incorrect, uncresearched, unsupported supposition that the increase in anti-semitism is localized? Doesnt say much for the side you've clearly chosen.

[Henry]

Originally posted by Johnny Punani
Did I ever imply that? No

No, you flat out said it.


oh boy, here we go again...

Mel Gibson is Hilter right?

What am I mis-interpreting here?

Is it wrong for Jewish groups to let the non-Jews know of their concerns, especially when their fears might actually be realized?

[Johnny Punani2]

Originally posted by Henry


No, you flat out said it.



What am I mis-interpreting here?

I don't understand why noone is allowed to note anything remotely negative regarding this movie without a statement like this immediately following.

Is it wrong for Jewish groups to let the non-Jews know of their concerns, especially when their fears are actually realized?

Noone in the article is saying Gibson is a bad guy, or shouldn't have made the movie, or that the movie wasn't good. What's being said is that anti-Jewish sentiment has risen following the movie's release. That's an improtant thing to know if you ask me. But then again, as a Jew I have to worry about such things. Maybe you don't.

Yes, you are mis-interpreting what I said.

I have no problem with Jewish groups voicing concern over the movie. It is understandable. However, if you remember before the movie was released there were cries from that the movie was anti-semitic/Mel Gibson was anti-semitic and the movie would cause wide spread violence against Jews across the world. None of which is the case. B'nai Brith links other main reasons behind the increase in violence.

[Mad Mike]

Originally posted by Zen-like Todd


How absurd. You picked out a silly quote from the article and then hinged your position on it. Back up your position. Quote and run doesnt cut it here. And to follow it up with the HUGELY incorrect, uncresearched, unsupported supposition that the increase in anti-semitism is localized? Doesnt say much for the side you've clearly chosen.

Dude Chill. I didn't take any side. I'm sorry you are too worked up to see that.

I'm going to leave this argument before I say something I may regret, but before I go there are a few things you need to think about.

1) What makes one quote silly and the other something else? Your position? The article says that "one-third of all incidents occurred in March and April, when Israel launched countermeasures against terrorist groups in the Palestinian territory", Is that when the movie was shown? Is it simply not true? Please. Show me why that statement is silly.

2) I have only seen articles stating that the the increse in violence was in Canada. Unless you have information to the contrary it is YOU who assumes it was not localized.

Now. If you want to continue this discussion. It might be wise for you to calm down and think before you type. The only side I have taken is the side against hate crimes and violence of any type for any reason.

[Burgold]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mad Mike
[B]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/cpress/20050315/ca_pr_on_na/anti_semitism_report_3


Are we sure it's not the result of some violent video game?


Mike,

You suggested that this antisemetic violence might be due to a video game. I simply asked if anyone was aware of a violent anti-Jew video game that was released. If it's targeted violence, then the video game possibility you offered would probably be specific.

It is important to be vigilant, some may see it as being oversensitive, but there are too many recent historical examples of racial and ethnic hatred getting out of hand. I think it is better to take these things seriously when the incidents are small than wait until there are mass graves (Rwanda, Serbia, Iraq, Poland, etc.)

[Funkyalligator]

Althought technically the movie isn't anti-semitic...it does stir up "Passions" against the jewish people for taking part in the death of Jesus....you know the funny thing is that Jesus was a jew too and never stated nor implied that he wanted to create a whole nother religion..just improve on his own(of course there is no actual historical evidence that he even really existed but that is another point)...the people that commit the anti-semitic acts because of watching this movie are ignorant fools and are just demonstraiting how stupid they are.....

If someone ever attacked me because of this movie I would probably severly hurt them and then laugh at them because they were so stupid....

There are some good points that previous "passion plays" have resulted in progroms and such in other countries so of course Jews have a right to be nervous about the situation.

Now as for Gibson...I don't believe he is anti-semitic..just misguided and a bit ignorant.....his dad is the anti-semite

[Thiebear]

I was hatin on the Romans the other day for it also... ;)

[Mad Mike]

Originally posted by Burgold
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mad Mike
[B]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/cpress/20050315/ca_pr_on_na/anti_semitism_report_3


Are we sure it's not the result of some violent video game?


Mike,

You suggested that this antisemetic violence might be due to a video game. I simply asked if anyone was aware of a violent anti-Jew video game that was released. If it's targeted violence, then the video game possibility you offered would probably be specific.

It is important to be vigilant, some may see it as being oversensitive, but there are too many recent historical examples of racial and ethnic hatred getting out of hand. I think it is better to take these things seriously when the incidents are small than wait until there are mass graves (Rwanda, Serbia, Iraq, Poland, etc.)

:gus:

It was SARCASM. Get it? It was ment to remind people how every time somone is killed here in america some group with 20 lawyers wants to blame a video game or music group. :doh:

Man. What is it about this subject that makes people loose all sense of reason?

[Zen-like Todd]

Originally posted by Mad Mike


Dude Chill. I didn't take any side. I'm sorry you are too worked up to see that.

I'm going to leave this argument before I say something I may regret, but before I go there are a few things you need to think about.

1) What makes one quote silly and the other something else? Your position? The article says that "one-third of all incidents occurred in March and April, when Israel launched countermeasures against terrorist groups in the Palestinian territory", Is that when the movie was shown? Is it simply not true? Please. Show me why that statement is silly.


Answered before you asked. Read more carefully.



2) I have only seen articles stating that the the increse in violence was in Canada. Unless you have information to the contrary it is YOU who assumes it was not localized.
You are the one who made the conjecture based on a complete lack of information, not me. It is incumbent upon you to support your position, not me. That I pointed out this fact does not make it incumbent upon me. That said, it takes literally two seconds to type "anti-semitism" into news.google.com, which uncovers a plethora of articles discussing skyrocketing rates of anti-semitism around the globe. Don't even think about trying to throw the argument back to me because you are intellectually lazy.



Now. If you want to continue this discussion. It might be wise for you to calm down and think before you type. The only side I have taken is the side against hate crimes and violence of any type for any reason.

There's no reason for me to calm down, as I am not aggravated. Unlike you, I do in fact think before I type. Reason, logic, and consideration are all things that are missing from your position in this thread. You lazily posted drivel, and have now become irritated at being challenged. Instead of reconsidering your posts, you brush off the issue entirely, appealing to non-existent ancillary issues of emotion and passion.

[Johnny Punani2]

Originally posted by Funkyalligator
Althought technically the movie isn't anti-semitic...it does stir up "Passions" against the jewish people for taking part in the death of Jesus....you know the funny thing is that Jesus was a jew too and never stated nor implied that he wanted to create a whole nother religion..just improve on his own(of course there is no actual historical evidence that he even really existed but that is another point)...the people that commit the anti-semitic acts because of watching this movie are ignorant fools and are just demonstraiting how stupid they are.....

If someone ever attacked me because of this movie I would probably severly hurt them and then laugh at them because they were so stupid....

There are some good points that previous "passion plays" have resulted in progroms and such in other countries so of course Jews have a right to be nervous about the situation.

Now as for Gibson...I don't believe he is anti-semitic..just misguided and a bit ignorant.....his dad is the anti-semite

Now is Gibson misguided and ignorant?

I also disagree with your whole idea the movie does stir up anything against jewish people. 99% of the people who decided to see the movie are smart enough to understand it had nothing to do with putting blame on the Jews for Christ's death. The movie didn't try to portray it either.

[Mad Mike]

Originally posted by Zen-like Todd


Answered before you asked. Read more carefully.

You are the one who made the conjecture based on a complete lack of information, not me. It is incumbent upon you to support your position, not me. That I pointed out this fact does not make it incumbent upon me. That said, it takes literally two seconds to type "anti-semitism" into news.google.com, which uncovers a plethora of articles discussing skyrocketing rates of anti-semitism around the globe. Don't even think about trying to throw the argument back to me because you are intellectually lazy.

There's no reason for me to calm down, as I am not aggravated. Unlike you, I do in fact think before I type. Reason, logic, and consideration are all things that are missing from your position in this thread. You lazily posted drivel, and have now become irritated at being challenged. Instead of reconsidering your posts, you brush off the issue entirely, appealing to non-existent ancillary issues of emotion and passion.

Dude, you didn't answer squat.

The fact is, I got my information from the links YOU POSTED. :doh: :gus:

Fine though. I did some more research...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/freeheadlines/LAC/20050316/ANTISEMITISM16/national/National


Much of the rise seen last year can be attributed to increased tension in the Middle East, but some of the responsibility has to be borne by film director Mel Gibson and his controversial The Passion of the Christ, the head of B'nai Brith Canada said.


We saw a tremendous spike in March and April, which corresponded with increases in terrorist activities against Israelis and, by extension, a strong response by the Israelis," Mr. Dimant explained.

Although the 2004 numbers show a rise in vandalism and sharp declines in both harassment and violence, B'nai Brith worries that the danger may escalate because of Canadian complacency.

Now this article atibutes some of the violence to Gibsons film and some some to problems in the midle east. Yet when I point this out to those of you who ignored that second part, it's "absurd".

And yes I was correct to point out that the big increase that has been reported was in canada. If you want to talk about a big increase elsewhere, post an article that talks about it. more specificaly post an article that shows an increase elsewhere that coincided with the release of the movie. THat responsability falls square on your sholders, not mine because you are the one to make that claim. Because right there in the quote above, B'nai Brith says that Canadian compacency is a contributing factor.

I really don't know what your problem is but it is wearing thin on me. You want everyone to say it's all Mell Gibson's fault, it's all the films fault. Well I'm sorry but your wrong. It's the fault of the morons and @ssholes who commited the violence. There may have been some idiots who saw the movie and reacted with violence, I would almost be surprised if there were none. That's the nature of idiots and morons. But unless you can point me to the quote from Gibson or the movie that says "go out and attack Jews" you haven't got a case.

Maybe in your world no one should ever do anything that evokes a passionate response. Maybe we should all whitewash everything we say for fear of insulting others or insiting violence. Maybe we should change the name of our football team because some cowboy fan saw stupid enough to attack an indian. I don't know what the hell you want. But I do know this...

One report of an such as the one that we are discussing does not prove anything, it raises questions. And you can't chose which parts of the report are true and which are "absurd" when the same person gave both quotes. :doh:


Report on Global Anti-Semitism
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/40258.htm

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

Wow, this topic certainly stirs up some...passion.

:laugh:

[Funkyalligator]

gibson was extremely misguided if he thought that his film wouldn't have an impact on anti-semitisim......the majority of people that saw this film wouldn't act out against jews but the concept behind the movie and title itself have a direct conection to the passion plays of the past which led to massive retaliation against the jewish people...gibson was an idiot not realize this or perhaps he was genius because he realized how much media coverage it would stir up....either way the film did cause some anti-semitic acts of which 1 is too many....

[pez]

OK!!! everyone go here for a couple minutes. And come back with a little bit better attitude...

http://www.collegehumor.com/?movie_id=125162

[Zen-like Todd]

Originally posted by Mad Mike


Dude, you didn't answer squat.

The fact is, I got my information from the links YOU POSTED. :doh: :gus:
]

You mean the links I posted due some of the kneejerk responders who were concerned with the website pex posted the article from? The links that I specifically referred to as being sourced from the same wire service article? The completely redundant articles about a SINGLE report, and which have nothing whatsoever to do with your ownunresearched, unsupported kneejerk response? Need to be reminded of it? You wrote:

One more thing. Has anyone noticed that the problem seems to be localized in Canada?

You did no research, you read a single article about a report on Canadian anti-semitism, and had either the complete gall or utter ignorance to suggest that because the article was about canadian anti-semitism, this was somehow evidence that it didnt occur elsewhere in the world? The fact that you are even trying to support that statement now is mind boggling. It has no logical grounding whatsoever.


Now, moving on from one of your shortcomings to the next, we have.

Fine though. I did some more research...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/freeheadlines/LAC/20050316/ANTISEMITISM16/national/National

Now this article atibutes some of the violence to Gibsons film and some some to problems in the midle east. Yet when I point this out to those of you who ignored that second part, it's "absurd".[/quote]

Since you went and picked out the use of absurd, I'm sure you noted the context, right? Need a reminder?


How absurd. You picked out a silly quote from the article and then hinged your position on it. Back up your position. Quote and run doesnt cut it here. And to follow it up with the HUGELY incorrect, uncresearched, unsupported supposition that the increase in anti-semitism is localized? Doesnt say much for the side you've clearly chosen.

Does that help? Do I need to explain? Use smaller words, perhaps?



And yes I was correct to point out that the big increase that has been reported was in canada. If you want to talk about a big increase elsewhere, post an article that talks about it. more specificaly post an article that shows an increase elsewhere that coincided with the release of the movie. THat responsability falls square on your sholders, not mine because you are the one to make that claim. Because right there in the quote above, B'nai Brith says that Canadian compacency is a contributing factor.

Sorry Mike, you can't argue your way out of a logical fallacy by invoking your intellectual laziness as a defense. You made a completely unsupported assertion, logically fallacious, based off of an article you read that in no way supports your assertion. You're a big boy Mike. If you make an assertion like that, you should be able to back it up. If you can't, we're not going to bail you out.




I really don't know what your problem is but it is wearing thin on me. You want everyone to say it's all Mell Gibson's fault, it's all the films fault.

Did I? Where did I say that? Creating a bit of the positional boogeyman here, are we? A fictional character that outlets your rage? Interesting turn. Perhaps this is the source of your ridiculous position.



Well I'm sorry but your wrong. It's the fault of the morons and @ssholes who commited the violence. There may have been some idiots who saw the movie and reacted with violence, I would almost be surprised if there were none. That's the nature of idiots and morons. But unless you can point me to the quote from Gibson or the movie that says "go out and attack Jews" you haven't got a case.


Maybe in your world no one should ever do anything that evokes a passionate response. Maybe we should all whitewash everything we say for fear of insulting others or insiting violence. Maybe we should change the name of our football team because some cowboy fan saw stupid enough to attack an indian. I don't know what the hell you want. But I do know this...[/quote]

You do realize, don't you, that this is just more emotional outletting that has no bearing on your logical fallacies, don't you? It may make you feel better, but it in no way helps you to recover from your position.




One report of an such as the one that we are discussing does not prove anything, it raises questions. And you can't chose which parts of the report are true and which are "absurd" when the same person gave both quotes. :doh:


Report on Global Anti-Semitism
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/40258.htm [/B]

Again, you clearly are responding either to someone else, or the aforementioned fictional boogeyman. Control your emotions next time, and use the magic of logic. It will get you somewhere. Ridiculous conjecture will not.

[Cdowwe]

I dont get it. Hollywood is all about movies that show Jews being mistreated, but as soon as its a Christian being harmed by Jews, theyre up in arms. Talk about a double standard.

[Henry]

Originally posted by Cdowwe
I dont get it. Hollywood is all about movies that show Jews being mistreated, but as soon as its a Christian being harmed by Jews, theyre up in arms. Talk about a double standard.

You're right. You don't get it.

For about the millionth time, Passion plays have historically been known to often incite violence against Jews. Jews were concerned that a movie which was basically a filmed Passion play would have a similar effect.

It's not like the Jews went around picketing the X-Men movies because Magneto was Jewish. There's actually a reason for their concern.

If Schinder's List had caused a spike in Jewish violence against Germans, you might have a point.

[Mad Mike]

Zen-like Todd
Dude what planet are you on? I can't even follow what you are using for logic here.

Fact. ONE SOURCE has clamed that the movie caused SOME of the increase of violence in Canada; The League for Human Rights of B'nai B'rith. No other source has made the same claim and no source has claimed that The Passion has caused a worldwide spike in anti semetic violence. That same lone source, The League for Human Rights of B'nai B'rith, has also said "We saw a tremendous spike in March and April, which corresponded with increases in terrorist activities against Israelis and, by extension, a strong response by the Israelis," an event that had nothing to do with the movie, and also said "Canadian compacency is a contributing factor".

I'm the only one working from facts here. You have gone off into la la land and made claims you cannot support.

Worse still, despite my effort to conduct a civil debate with you, you are acting like a jerk.

I'm done with you.

[Zen-like Todd]

This is incredibly simple and straightforward. I understand you are suffering from cognitive dissonance, but there's no la la land. You said:


One more thing. Has anyone noticed that the problem seems to be localized in Canada?

You read one article about a report on anti-semitic attacks in Canada, and responded with the above quote. It has no logical basis, and is ridiculous because of that. Comprende?

[Johnny Punani2]

Originally posted by Funkyalligator
gibson was extremely misguided if he thought that his film wouldn't have an impact on anti-semitisim......the majority of people that saw this film wouldn't act out against jews but the concept behind the movie and title itself have a direct conection to the passion plays of the past which led to massive retaliation against the jewish people...gibson was an idiot not realize this or perhaps he was genius because he realized how much media coverage it would stir up....either way the film did cause some anti-semitic acts of which 1 is too many....

So, what would have been the alternative? Not make the film?

[Prosperity]

Originally posted by Henry


You're right. You don't get it.

For about the millionth time, Passion plays have historically been known to often incite violence against Jews. Jews were concerned that a movie which was basically a filmed Passion play would have a similar effect.

It's not like the Jews went around picketing the X-Men movies because Magneto was Jewish. There's actually a reason for their concern.

If Schinder's List had caused a spike in Jewish violence against Germans, you might have a point.

Even if the concern is valid, what is your point. What will you do about it?

[pez]

Originally posted by Liberty


Even if the concern is valid, what is your point. What will you do about it?

I think we are just trying raise awareness of a potential situation...

Is that wrong ?

[Cdowwe]

Actually Henry I do get it, I was just making a statement. Who cares if Jews are afraid there might be backlash, not me, but Im not jewish or anti semetic. The fact is that what happened in the plays are believed to be true, I personally believe it. Everytime something such as a movie portrays a Jew as someone evil, they complain. Now thats a fact.

[Funkyalligator]

Here is the basic problem...gibson took a very bleak look on the death christ using questionable religious works as his basis....he then proceeded to indicate that this is how the bible interpreted the actions contained within the movie which isn't true......

Jews have every reason to have problems with the movie because of the previous history that is associated with the "passion plays" upon which it is based.....

You have many churches that are using the movie as an advertisement for the christian religion so when you have young children going to see it and impressionable teenagers you can cause an unnatural dislike for jews because of the way they are portrayed and we all know how sensitive religion can be for many people here in the US and the world....

[Johnny Punani2]

Originally posted by Funkyalligator
Here is the basic problem...gibson took a very bleak look on the death christ using questionable religious works as his basis....he then proceeded to indicate that this is how the bible interpreted the actions contained within the movie which isn't true......

Jews have every reason to have problems with the movie because of the previous history that is associated with the "passion plays" upon which it is based.....

You have many churches that are using the movie as an advertisement for the christian religion so when you have young children going to see it and impressionable teenagers you can cause an unnatural dislike for jews because of the way they are portrayed and we all know how sensitive religion can be for many people here in the US and the world....

So, how can you sit there and tell me the way Gibson portrayed Christ's crucifiction was inaccurate when your not a Christian to begin with? Have you ever even read the New Testament? I doubt it from what you just said.

[Cdowwe]

Who cares if Jews have a problem with it, it is what happened. To Christians, they were wrong to do it to Christ. In my opinion, its like Germans getting mad at movies about Nazis killing people. They will claim the movies make Germans look bad. I just dont think Jews want to admit what they did.

[pez]

Originally posted by Cdowwe
Who cares if Jews have a problem with it, it is what happened. To Christians, they were wrong to do it to Christ. In my opinion, its like Germans getting mad at movies about Nazis killing people. They will claim the movies make Germans look bad. I just dont think Jews want to admit what they did.

How can you blame the jews of today with what happened thousands of years ago?

It is like walking up to a german today and blaming him for Hitler's doings....

[Funkyalligator]

Of course...because I am jewish I've never studied religions as part of our religions tolerences of other religions.....and I've never studied the history of jewish people nor effects that the Passion plays have had upon them....

[Johnny Punani2]

Originally posted by Funkyalligator
Of course...because I am jewish I've never studied religions as part of our religions tolerences of other religions.....and I've never studied the history of jewish people nor effects that the Passion plays have had upon them....

Well Funky, I guess you know that the Jewish religious leadership did have a part to play in Christ's death. I don't know how else you can portray that? It's in the Bible.

However, I believe it was meant to happen that way. So I personally don't think it was the Jews fault for killing Jesus Christ. They were supposed to because it was foretold. And I will bet you 98% of the people you call the religious right wackos, etc feel the same as I do.

[Cdowwe]

Pez, im not blaming jews for what happened 1000s of years ago. And some Jews still blame some Germans for what happened, not saying all but some. I dont want to come across as some anti semetic guy however. Ill just give an example. Some guy I work with in the chemical field refuses to buy from Bayer because Bayer supplied the Gas to Hitler. Even though Bayer is cheaper, he wont do it. Thats blaming Germans for what happened. Sure, he is jewish but Im a Christian and I can blame Jews for what happened. I dont though.

[Funkyalligator]

okay...if I am to believe the new testament which religiously I can't(and I don't) then yes the jewish leadership had a part in the death of christ.....logically this would be expected if a religious hierarchy was threatened by an upstart preacher....

[Funkyalligator]

Lots of Jews won't by German cars or anything from Germany...personally I don't care what country it comes from but at the same time if I ever run across a nazi...I'll kill him with my bare hands no matter how old and decrepit they are....

[Cdowwe]

Funk,

While I dont argue killing some old Nazi, thatd be like me tearing down some Jewish temple from the time of Christ. Or finding some 2000 year old Jew and killing him.

[chomerics]

Originally posted by Mad Mike

[i]Originally posted by Zen-like-Todd
[i]
Dude what planet are you on? I can't even follow what you are using for logic here.

Fact. ONE SOURCE has clamed that the movie caused SOME of the increase of violence in Canada; The League for Human Rights of B'nai B'rith. No other source has made the same claim and no source has claimed that The Passion has caused a worldwide spike in anti semetic violence. That same lone source, The League for Human Rights of B'nai B'rith, has also said "We saw a tremendous spike in March and April, which corresponded with increases in terrorist activities against Israelis and, by extension, a strong response by the Israelis," an event that had nothing to do with the movie, and also said "Canadian compacency is a contributing factor".

I'm the only one working from facts here. You have gone off into la la land and made claims you cannot support.

Worse still, despite my effort to conduct a civil debate with you, you are acting like a jerk.

I'm done with you.

Zen, don't bother this is his MO. Start flame throwing in a thread, laugh at the facts then ignore them. Come back with an argument that fails on all levels of logic, disassociate himself from anything even remotely representing rational thought, then declare victory.

Yep, this sounds like all of Mike's posts, I have never seen somebody who can start at the blue sky, call it red and laugh when you point out the fact that the sky is indeed blue.

Then after all of the bickering, come back for the one final "I'm done with you"

Great example of it here, in this thread. . . you should get a kick out of it, seeing the pain you just went through. :)

Mike and the Black Night from the Holy Grail (http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=91262&perpage=40&display=&highlight=black%20knight&pagenumber=4)

[Johnny Punani2]

Originally posted by Funkyalligator
okay...if I am to believe the new testament which religiously I can't(and I don't) then yes the jewish leadership had a part in the death of christ.....logically this would be expected if a religious hierarchy was threatened by an upstart preacher....

It was foretold in the Torah as well. He would be rejected by he own people. Isaiah 53:3

[Cdowwe]

^ :laugh:

about Mad Mike i mean

[Cdowwe]

Good find though Johnny

[SnyderShrugged]

This just in, anti-semitism on the rise since King James Version of the bible released.

[SnyderShrugged]

Originally posted by Funkyalligator
Of course...because I am jewish I've never studied religions as part of our religions tolerences of other religions.....and I've never studied the history of jewish people nor effects that the Passion plays have had upon them....


Been beat up by a lot of Christians since the movie came out?

[Johnny Punani2]

Here are the rest of the prophecies from the Torah.

The day Jesus was crucified
*Prophesied
**Fulfilled

Betrayed by a friend
*Ps 41:9
**Jn 13:18-27

Sold for 30 pieces of silver
*Zech 11:12
**Mt 26:14-15

30 pieces thrown in Temple
*Zech 11:13
**Mt 27:3-5

30 pieces buys potters field
*Zech 11:13
**Mt 27:6-10

Forsaken by His disciples
*Zech 13:7
**Mk 14:27+50

Accused by false witnesses
*Ps 35:11+20-21
**Mt 26:59-61

Silent before accusers
*Isa 53:7
**Mt 27:12-14

Wounded and bruised
*Isa 53:4-6
**1 Pet 2:21-25

Beaten and spit upon
*Isa 50:6
**Mt 26:67-68

Mocked
*Ps 22:6-8
**Mt 27:27-31

Fell under the cross
*Ps 109:24-25
**Jn 19:17; Lk23:26

Hands and feet pierced
*Ps 22:16
**Jn 20:24-28

Crucified with thieves
*Isa 53:12
**Mt 27:38

Prayed for enemies
*Isa 53:12
**Lk 23:34

Rejected by His own people
*Isa 53:3
**Jn 19:14-15

Hated without cause
*Ps 69:4
**Jn 15:25

Friends stood aloof
*Ps 38:11
**Lk22:54;23:49

People wag their heads
*Ps 22:7;109:25
**Mt 27:39

People stared at Him
*Ps 22:17
**Lk 23:35

Cloths divided and gambled for
*Ps 22:18
**Jn 19:23-24

Became very thirsty
*Ps 22:15
**Jn 19:28

Gall and vinegar offered Him
*Ps 69:21
**Mt 27:34

His forsaken cry
*Ps 22:1
**Mt 27:46

Committed Himself to God
*Ps 31:5
**Lk 23:46

Bones not broken
*Ps 34:20
**Jn 19:32-36

Heart broken
*Ps 69:20;22:14
**Jn 19:34

His side pierced
*Zech 12:10
**Jn 19:34+37

Darkness over the land
*Amos 8:9
**Lk 23:44-45

Buried in rich man's tomb
*Isa 53:9
**Mt 27:57-60

[SnyderShrugged]

Wow! I didnt realize the specificity of the links between the new testament and Torah.

Interesting stuff!

[Funkyalligator]

Yeah its amazing how much it lines up...wonder why that is?

[SnyderShrugged]

Originally posted by Funkyalligator
Yeah its amazing how much it lines up...wonder why that is?


Point please?

[chomerics]

Originally posted by skin-n-vegas



Point please?

One was written after the other.

[SnyderShrugged]

Originally posted by chomerics


One was written a couple hundred years after the other. :doh:


So what? actually it was thousands of years, and are you inferring that communication was so good at that time that the seperate books of the new testament that were written in different decades and different geographic locations were the result of a grand scheme to create a plagerized story all in collusion with each other?


Wow! You have way more "Faith" than I thought!


Thanks for removing the doh!. I didnt think it was warranted for asking a simple question either.

[Johnny Punani2]

Originally posted by Funkyalligator
Yeah its amazing how much it lines up...wonder why that is?

So I guess the Romans were well versed in the Torah as well since they had to fullfill some of the prophecies as well right?

[Funkyalligator]

How do you know that Jesus actually existed? Basically you are taking the new testament as fact without having any actual proof that jesus existed....of course if the followers of Jesus Christ wanted create a religion based upon him they would probably try and link him to another such as the "messiah" figure in the torah...so therefore Jesus actions matched up with the messiah figure discussed in the torah....

[chomerics]

Originally posted by skin-n-vegas



So what? actually it was thousands of years, and are you inferring that communication was so good at that time that the seperate books of the new testament that were written in different decades and different geographic locations were the result of a grand scheme to create a plagerized story all in collusion with each other?


Wow! You have way more "Faith" than I thought!


Thanks for removing the doh!. I didnt think it was warranted for asking a simple question either.

I removed the doh because after re-reading it it wasn't as obvious as I thought.

The New Testament gains credibility if the Torah predicts it, the coming of the son of god. It puts a nice ending to cover any "holes" in the "theory".

[Huly]

Originally posted by pez


How can you blame the jews of today with what happened thousands of years ago?

It is like walking up to a german today and blaming him for Hitler's doings....

The same question poses to the south vs slavery!

[SnyderShrugged]

Originally posted by Funkyalligator
How do you know that Jesus actually existed? Basically you are taking the new testament as fact without having any actual proof that jesus existed....of course if the followers of Jesus Christ wanted create a religion based upon him they would probably try and link him to another such as the "messiah" figure in the torah...so therefore Jesus actions matched up with the messiah figure discussed in the torah....

Pretty popular Dude for over 2000 years may argue against your point.

You are Jewish (I think you said that,right?). Do you apply your same logic to Moses?

[pez]

Originally posted by Huly


The same question poses to the south vs slavery!

One can of worms at a time honey :D

[Huly]

I know but it is the same situation. You posed the question!

I do not blame the jews for what they did. I do not understand who could. Christians/ any religious group get persecuted all the time for their beliefs could it be they are focusing on it more because of the movie?

[Mad Mike]

Originally posted by Cdowwe
^ :laugh:

about Mad Mike i mean

I invite you to read all of my posts and compare them to chom. Let's see who the rational one is.

Here... let me repost that link for you...
http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=91262&perpage=40&display=&highlight=black%20knight&pagenumber=1

And just so you have a frame of reference, here is a thread with Chom getting verbaly b!tchslapped by half a dozen other people for his ilogical rantings...
http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61758&perpage=15&display=&highlight=fallujah&pagenumber=1

Enjoy. :D

[chomerics]

Originally posted by Mad Mike

And just so you have a frame of reference, here is a thread with Chom getting verbaly b!tchslapped by half a dozen other people for his ilogical rantings...
http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61758&perpage=15&display=&highlight=fallujah&pagenumber=1

Enjoy. :D

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

WOW, I really was belligerent back then huh, no wonder I was banned :)

As for the thread, you think this is getting bitchslapped :rotflmao: WOW, you really are devoid of reality. I took on basically this entire board by myself and I was proven right by history.

Thanks for posting the link Mike :cheers: It really validates my entire first post.


here is a thread with Chom getting verbaly b!tchslapped by half a dozen other people for his ilogical rantings...

:rotflmao:
I'd challange others to read through this entire thread and say I got verbally b!tchslapped :rotflmao:

Man, unintentional comedy at its best.

[Funkyalligator]

As a religous book...the Torah has as much relevance as the new testament.....I happen to believe in one in the moral/spiritual sense but not the other.....

Now you can choose to believe one and not the other but don't go saying there is proof that anything that was written in either book happened because there isn't...

There is no proof that Jesus existed....for all we know whom ever wrote the new testament decided to sync things up with the torah to build upon the jewish religion...i.e. have a solid base to start a new religion....to each their own...

But in the end the "passion plays" caused problems in the past and so jew have ever right to be cautious this time around especially when the movie is made by the son of an avowed anti-semite...

[Mad Mike]

Originally posted by chomerics
I took on basically this entire board by myself and I was proven right by history.



You honestly believe that don't you? :doh:

Your own special brand of delusion would be funny if it were not so disturbing. :rolleyes:

[chomerics]

Originally posted by Mad Mike

Your own special brand of delusion would be funny if it were not so disturbing. :rolleyes:

Read this, then read my first quote on your posts. . .



Originally posted by Chomerics

Zen, don't bother this is his MO. Start flame throwing in a thread, laugh at the facts then ignore them. Come back with an argument that fails on all levels of logic, disassociate himself from anything even remotely representing rational thought, then declare victory.

Yep, this sounds like all of Mike's posts, I have never seen somebody who can start at the blue sky, call it red and laugh when you point out the fact that the sky is indeed blue.

Then after all of the bickering, come back for the one final "I'm done with you"

Great example of it here, in this thread. . . you should get a kick out of it, seeing the pain you just went through.


Thank you for proving my point, yet again Mike.

[Cdowwe]

This thread is turning into a mess.

[Henry]

Nevermind. This thread is better off closed.