School shooter info

[flyingtiger1013]

Nutcase if this is accurate. Well, he was anyway to do what he did.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1443462,00.html

A neo-nazi 'angel of death'

Sarah Left uncovers a series of website posts apparently linking Jeff Weise to extreme rightwing politics

Tuesday March 22, 2005

Jeff Weise, the 17-year-old named in newspaper reports as the gunman in the Red Lake school shooting, may have been investigated last year in connection with a shooting threat to the school, according to posts made on a Nazi website.
Over a five-month period between March and August 2004, someone identifying himself as Weise posted numerous messages on a talkboard hosted by Nazi.org, the website of the Libertarian National Socialist Green party. The party promotes a Nazi philosophy of racial purity.


Article continues

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In March 2004, a chatroom participant tagged Todesengel ("angel of death") began a thread titled "Native American Nationalist?" and introduced himself as "Jeff Weise, a Native American from the Red Lake 'Indian' reservation in Minnesota". Todesengel expressed interest in joining the party and said he had done a great deal of research on Hitler, a man he much admired. Later in the thread, Todesengel changed his tag to NativeNazi.
"When I was growing up, I was taught (like others) that Nazi's were (are) evil and that Hitler was a very evil man, ect," wrote Todesengel, in a quote not corrected for spelling and grammar. "Of course, not for a second did I believe this. Upon reading up on his actions, the ideals and issues the German Third Reich adressed, I began to see how much of a lie had been painted about them. They truly were doing it for the better."

On April 19 2004, he posted to the talkboard: "By the way, I'm being blamed for a threat on the school I attend because someone said they were going to shoot up the school on 4/20, Hitlers birthday, and just because I claim being a National Socialist, guess whom they've pinned?"

By May 26 the incident seemed to have blown over, with Todesengel posting: "But the school threat passed and I was cleared as a suspect, I'm glad for that. I don't much care for jail, I've never been there and I don't plan on it."

The gun rampage through the remote northern Minnesota reservation yesterday left 10 people dead. Reports suggested that Weise took a shotgun and at least one handgun belonging to his grandfather, a veteran local police officer. He shot his grandparents, who later died, before moving on to Red Lake high school and killing five students, a teacher, a security guard and ultimately himself.

Today the Libertarian National Socialist Green party said incidents such as yesterday's shooting were to be expected when "thinking people are crammed into an unthinking, irrational modern society".

"We knew [Weise] briefly through 34 posts he made on the forum. He expressed himself well and was clearly highly intelligent and contemplative, especially for one so young," the site's administrator said in statement posted today on Nazi.org.

"Weise participated in the forum in part because, unlike 'white nationalist' or 'white power' movements, the LNSG embraces all races as part of its vision of world nationalism. His statements on the site reflected a frustration with the populist politics and materialistic arrogance of modern society," the statement continued.

In a July 13 post, NativeNazi expressed his concern that Native Americans had turned their backs on racial purity and were being weakened by "interracial mixing". He was particularly annoyed that young Native Americans were copying the culture of African Americans.

"Where I live less than 1% of all the people on the Reservation can speak their own language, and among the youth wanting to be black has run ramped. We have kids my age killing each other over things as simple as a fight, and it's because of the rap influence. Wannabe-gangsters everywhere, I can't go 5 feet without hearing someone blasting some rap song over their speakers," he complained.

He went on: "It's hard though, being a Native American National Socialist, people are so misinformed, ignorant, and close minded it makes your life a living hell."

:doh:

[SnyderShrugged]

I'm surprised that there wasnt a huge deal of "columbine type" media coverage on this. When columbine happened we had a year of constant reports on the shootings.

I hate to say it, but It does trouble me that minority news coverage seems to take a back seat to White coverage (I am caucasion, BTW)

I've actually been paying attention for a while and notice a media trend that all the high profile abductions, murders, etc are normally in regards to a white kid or mommy to be, and normally a female.

I'm not one to hollar about racial inequality very often, but arent the hundreds of other cases deserving of the same level of coverage at least?

[Skins24]

Ohh what's that in the sky!?

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Everyone distracted?
Good.

This is one of the sites he posted at
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/

(It's an ok site. But beware - some threads will make your intel level drop...)



One of his posts from a year ago:

They pegged me as a possible school shooter earlier this year, or wait, that was last month.

Apparently someone was supposed to shoot up the school on 4/20, and there was alot of buzz around me, and for good reasons I guess.

I wear combat boots (with my pant legs tucked into them), wear a trench coat, and at the last basketball game my friend Mac, (who happens to wear a black trench coat like mine), did a "Sieg Heil" during the national anthem (for shock value), so they had us pegged as "Trench Coat Mafia." My "friend" Rose even said that I fit the profile of a school shooter that she saw on 60 minutes. They also pinned it on me because 4/20 happens to be Adolf Hitlers birthday, and I seem to be the only one who promotes National Socialist beliefs (not the stereotypical "White Power" bs you hear racists shouting, either). So it's not hard to label a school shooter.

I happen to be "not so popular," Gothic (in the sense that I wear nothing but black, spike my hair in "devil" horns, and listen to music like Cradle of Filth and KoRn), and happen to be an emotionally disturbed person, if you could call me that. So it's really no problem slapping a label on someone because they fit the stereotype. And no, I wasn't the one who did the threat. On "Game day" (4/20) the Feds were all around the place, watching, cop cars on nearly every corner around the school and a few large unmarked black vans sitting around, I bet they were on standby. So they WERE prepared for something to happen.

(PS,
I'm not a white supremecist, can't even spell it, I'm a Native American, Ojibwa, living on the Redlake Indian Reservation in Minnesota, and lets not have this turn into a hardcore political discussion about my political ideals, ok? )

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread49741/pg

[flyingtiger1013]

"I wear combat boots (with my pant legs tucked into them), wear a trench coat, and at the last basketball game my friend Mac, (who happens to wear a black trench coat like mine), did a "Sieg Heil" during the national anthem (for shock value), so they had us pegged as "Trench Coat Mafia." My "friend" Rose even said that I fit the profile of a school shooter that she saw on 60 minutes. They also pinned it on me because 4/20 happens to be Adolf Hitlers birthday, and I seem to be the only one who promotes National Socialist beliefs (not the stereotypical "White Power" bs you hear racists shouting, either). So it's not hard to label a school shooter.

I happen to be "not so popular," Gothic (in the sense that I wear nothing but black, spike my hair in "devil" horns, and listen to music like Cradle of Filth and KoRn), and happen to be an emotionally disturbed person, if you could call me that. So it's really no problem slapping a label on someone because they fit the stereotype."

Sometimes you just got to call a spade a spade.....:doh:

[SnyderShrugged]

who woulda thunk someone wearing devil horns in their hair would cause problems?

[DjTj]

Originally posted by skin-n-vegas
I'm surprised that there wasnt a huge deal of "columbine type" media coverage on this. When columbine happened we had a year of constant reports on the shootings.

I hate to say it, but It does trouble me that minority news coverage seems to take a back seat to White coverage (I am caucasion, BTW)

I've actually been paying attention for a while and notice a media trend that all the high profile abductions, murders, etc are normally in regards to a white kid or mommy to be, and normally a female.

I'm not one to hollar about racial inequality very often, but arent the hundreds of other cases deserving of the same level of coverage at least?

There is a bigger market for stories where the viewers can identify with the subject. Unfortunately, that means people watch more news about people that look like them.

That's the free market at work.

[Bang]

Hell, how do you decide which mass murders get media coverage these days... to my count that is like four ridiculous shootings like this in as many weeks... the atlanta courthouse,, the church in Wis., this, the guy in Texas(?) wearing body armor shooting up a courthouse... ( and killing the good samaritan who was legally carrying and opened fire,, right into the killer's kevlar.)

Has anyone noticed that our own gun related death tolls far outweigh the tolls in Iraq on a week to week basis? A WAR ZONE?
Let's keep arming ourselves. It's the American way.
Sorry, not trying to start a debate, because frankly, the gun argument loses more and more and more weight with each passing act of unspeakable violence... or each week, as the case may be.
we live in a lottery. Who will be the lucky winners of a rampage next week? Will it be your kid? Will it be your mother at the grocery store? Will it be you while you mind your own business at work?
Take comfort in knowing, that these days,, you don't go alone.. our heavily armed criminals can make sure you and six or seven of your pals can all die senselessly at the same time. So when your child is running thru fields of spraying lead in gym class, you can be sure that he will be among friends when he dies.

What a wonderful world...

~Bang

[Baculus]

A terrible incident - you have to wonder what's happening with people these days. And, unfortunately, as far as the issues of firearms is concerned, is may lead to even stricter laws, due to crazy people like this trouble young man.

"...Libertarian National Socialist Green party"...What in the heck is that? That just does not...seem right.

[SnyderShrugged]

Originally posted by Bang
Hell, how do you decide which mass murders get media coverage these days... to my count that is like four ridiculous shootings like this in as many weeks... the atlanta courthouse,, the church in Wis., this, the guy in Texas(?) wearing body armor shooting up a courthouse...

Has anyone noticed that our own gun related death tolls far outweigh the tolls in Iraq on a week to week basis? A WAR ZONE?
Let's keep arming ourselves. It's the American way.
Sorry, not trying to start a debate, because frankly, the gun argument loses more and more and more weight with each passing act of unspeakable violence... or each week, as the case may be.
we live in a lottery. Who will be the lucky winners of a rampage next week? Will it be your kid? Will it be your mother at the grocery store? Will it be you while you mind your own business at work?
Take comfort in knowing, that these days,, you don't go alone.. our heavily armed criminals can make sure you and six or seven of your pals can all die senselessly at the same time. So when your child is running thru fields of spraying lead in gym class, you can be sure that he will be among friends when he dies.

What a wonderful world...

~Bang


If the security guard had been allowed a firearm, maybe no-one else would have died.
Gun control really wouldnt have applied here anyway because the kids gramps was a cop and the kid stole his gun.

[Bang]

Maybe gramps having a trigger lock, or even properly securing his gun may have helped. Who knows. I'm sure for every argument , as usual there's the argument against.. all I know is i keep hearing the arguments,, and I keep seeing people die in droves.
I truly believe that statement I made about living in a lottery. I just hope my family's luck holds, and we just don't happen to be where some idiot goes stupid and shoots 7 people.

On an unrelated matter,, sort of... the other day when that woman who worked for Mayor Williams was killed,, terrible thing, to be sure, but how did it feel for all those hundreds and hundreds of people in DC who have lost someone that have no clue who the killer is? The Mayor and all his boys made damn sure when it was one of his people, they caught the crackhead right quick, and then of course stood there to be photographed expressing support..
Al I kept thinking about is all these people who have lost children and other loved ones to the violence in the district who complain that the cops barely seem to care... these nobody people who get killed and don't work for the mayor's office...
Was that just me? It left me feeling rather sick.

~Bang

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

First of all, I kind of find it interesting that this is called "extreme right wing politics" when the name of the thing is:

Libertarian National Socialist Green Party

Bac, I noticed it too!

But wait, isn't that a joke site? Is there a real Libertarian National Socialist Green party. Christ, is that a hopelessly confused outfit, if true.

I have seen that name before, but I thought it was a joke and I thought that I saw people refer to it as one. Certainly sounds it.

I don't know how you'd categorize that kind of thing, or if it even mattered. Those who worship death or hatred and stylish clothes(like the Hugo Boss the Nazis wore) would likely attach their psyche to Hitler. I don't think the COlumbine killers really cared about the ideology of National Socialism, but only embraced the nihilism and murder that is at the heart of Nazism, Communism or other ideologies.

Some people probably have some fixation on Charles Manson or Dahmer or Dracula, as well.

[Mad Mike]

Originally posted by skin-n-vegas
I'm surprised that there wasnt a huge deal of "columbine type" media coverage on this. When columbine happened we had a year of constant reports on the shootings.

I hate to say it, but It does trouble me that minority news coverage seems to take a back seat to White coverage (I am caucasion, BTW)

I've actually been paying attention for a while and notice a media trend that all the high profile abductions, murders, etc are normally in regards to a white kid or mommy to be, and normally a female.

I'm not one to hollar about racial inequality very often, but arent the hundreds of other cases deserving of the same level of coverage at least?

Read "Bias" by Bernard Goldberg
It's a great read and not at all what you might expect.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0895261901/002-5256708-1096846

He has a chapter about this subject. He says it is in part due to the fact that the media does not want to be seen as portraying minorities in a bad light.

-------------------------

So... does anyone remember the thread about the kid and his "zombie" story? THIS is why you take everything seriously. :doh:

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

Originally posted by flyingtiger1013
"I wear combat boots (with my pant legs tucked into them), wear a trench coat, and at the last basketball game my friend Mac, (who happens to wear a black trench coat like mine), did a "Sieg Heil" during the national anthem (for shock value), so they had us pegged as "Trench Coat Mafia." My "friend" Rose even said that I fit the profile of a school shooter that she saw on 60 minutes. They also pinned it on me because 4/20 happens to be Adolf Hitlers birthday, and I seem to be the only one who promotes National Socialist beliefs (not the stereotypical "White Power" bs you hear racists shouting, either). So it's not hard to label a school shooter.

I happen to be "not so popular," Gothic (in the sense that I wear nothing but black, spike my hair in "devil" horns, and listen to music like Cradle of Filth and KoRn), and happen to be an emotionally disturbed person, if you could call me that. So it's really no problem slapping a label on someone because they fit the stereotype."

Sometimes you just got to call a spade a spade.....:doh:

You know, it's incidents like these that are going to have to wake people up to the fact that it's NOT the jocks and other popular kids making fun of the people who GO OUT OF THEIR WAY to set themselves apart, it is the contempt for light, laughter, optimism and life itself that is often embraced by "goths(not most but some who take it too far)" that can lead to such violence.

This setting oneself apart can be healthy and is indeed admirable. But when your dislike for certain norms or patterns evolves into a hatred and contempt for human life itself and you combine that with some depression or rage issues and you have someone who is a candidate for a spree killing.

Ask yourself when you see Goths and you see all the jokes made at the expense of "norms" and the songs and music focused on death, who is more focused with their hate and their contempt, the preps/norms/jocks or the anti-___whatevers__?? I have no problem with someone who colors their hair or wears certain clothing or listens to music. But I'm not the one diving full into ONE cultural subset and expressing contempt for others and never participating or evaluating them as full humans.


It is of note, though, that many psychopaths and serial killers embrace Hitler or other totems of evil, and I would not at all link this with anything other than someone who is falling into evil aligning themselves with figures or myths that are thought of AS evil.

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

Originally posted by skin-n-vegas
I'm surprised that there wasnt a huge deal of "columbine type" media coverage on this. When columbine happened we had a year of constant reports on the shootings.

I hate to say it, but It does trouble me that minority news coverage seems to take a back seat to White coverage (I am caucasion, BTW)

I've actually been paying attention for a while and notice a media trend that all the high profile abductions, murders, etc are normally in regards to a white kid or mommy to be, and normally a female.

I'm not one to hollar about racial inequality very often, but arent the hundreds of other cases deserving of the same level of coverage at least?

Four incidents that bring that double standard home:

Wichita Massacre vs. James Byrd

Jesse Dirkhising vs. Matthew Shepard(now revealed to have been a robbery and not an anti-gay hate crime)

[stevenaa]

"Take comfort in knowing, that these days,, you don't go alone.. our heavily armed criminals can make sure you and six or seven of your pals can all die senselessly at the same time. So when your child is running thru fields of spraying lead in gym class, you can be sure that he will be among friends when he dies.
"

So what do you propose as a solution, Bang? The guns are available and that isn't going to change. It is understandable to be frghtened and repulsed by these events, but removing guns isn't going to solve the problem. Heck, it is just as easy to build a pipe bomb. People warped to this degree will find a way. Guns may seem to make it easier, but I don't think that is the case. I made bombs long before I had access to a gun. And I had access as a young teenager.

Maybe it's time to start addressing the parental issues that allow for a child to digress to this point of dispair. This could not happen with one of my children. I am too involved with them to not know. That should be the case with all children, but so many parents are "absent" even when they are home. I see it constantly with the kids at my childrens schools. Parents just don't involve themselves. It is a shame.

[Bang]

Gosh, I don't know the solution, steve.. I wish I did.
But it seems when it comes to this debate, if one should say "Hey,, something seems wrong here" he better have all the answers all figured out, or it isn't valid. (Not saying that is how your post went,, but that seems to be the general attitude I have discovered in others. )
I can figure this out by myself. It's WAY too easy to get serious weaponry in this country. It's WAY to easy for these kinds of things to continue to occur. Maybe it's time to say to the NRA and gun manufacturers who profit of of our collective suffering that they have indeed taken leave of their senses... that we don't need to be able to go into a gun show and buy a sniper rifle that can kill at a mile's range,, or buy a shopping bag full of guns.
I'ts just as easy to say "Warped people will find a way" but when the "way ' is so damned easy, maybe it's no wonder so many people go warped.
Well, for 220+ years we've tried the method of continuing to arm ourselves to the teeth so that we can be 'safe'. Now the argument has swung from "We must be armed in case the King Of England tries to come and take our land" to "We must be armed so we can kill our neighbor if he goes squirrely."
All i see is the bodies keep piling up.

And piling up.

And piling up

And piling up
And piling up
Andpiling up
Andpiling up
Andpilingup
Andpilingup
Andpilingup
Andpilingup
Andpilingup
Andpilingup


etc.
etc.
etc.
etc.

~Bang

[Skins24]

Originally posted by Bang
.......
Well, for 220+ years we've tried the method of continuing to arm ourselves to the teeth so that we can be 'safe'. Now the argument has swung from "We must be armed in case the King Of England tries to come and take our land" to "We must be armed so we can kill our neighbor if he goes squirrely."
All i see is the bodies keep piling up.........
Speaking of England.
How do you explain them?

They have one of the strictest gun bans in the world, yet their murder rate climbs.
The US is "armed to the teeth", yet our murder rate falls.
Any explanation as to why that is?



You're right. It is easy to get serious weaponary. And their are tons and tons and tons of guns in the hands of the US public. And the fact that these types of incidents don't happen more often is astounding considering the number of guns available and out there.

[Bang]

I don't care to explain England. i don't care about England's problem.
As I said,, all i see is bodies piling up and up and up here in America. Bodies of innocent people in a church, of kids in a school... everywhere all the damn time. "Murder rates" and statistics.. well I am sure all of the familes and friends of all the people murdered by gun toting loonies over the last month feel very comforted that our 'rate is falling'.


We can play the rhetoric game all we want.
Doesn't change the fact that no matter how 'few' of the incidents there are, they keep happening more and more frequently. No amount of deflection or circular logic changes that. By the way,, four in the last four weeks is not what i consider few.

As I said before.. just hope it's not you when you do something as innocent as go to the mall, or send your child to school. Everyone is playing the lottery.

~Bang

[Mad Mike]

Originally posted by Bang
I don't care to explain England. i don't care about England's problem.
As I said,, all i see is bodies piling up and up and up here in America. Bodies of innocent people in a church, of kids in a school... everywhere all the damn time. "Murder rates" and statistics.. well I am sure all of the familes and friends of all the people murdered by gun toting loonies over the last month feel very comforted that our 'rate is falling'.


We can play the rhetoric game all we want.
Doesn't change the fact that no matter how 'few' of the incidents there are, they keep happening more and more frequently. No amount of deflection or circular logic changes that. By the way,, four in the last four weeks is not what i consider few.

As I said before.. just hope it's not you when you do something as innocent as go to the mall, or send your child to school. Everyone is playing the lottery.

~Bang

Bang. I think you are speaking from a pure emotional point of view. It's not rhetoric to compare systems, it's logic.

Lets' look at the last few weeks. In two of the four incidents, the gun was stolen from a law enforcement officer. Should they not be allowed to carry guns? And BTW, the texas shooting may have been much worse had the shooter not ran into armed citizens who were ready and willing to shoot back.

And let's remember that you can't make accurate statistical judgements over short periods of time. Sometimes things happen in bunches then don't happen again for long periods of time. One sad thing about these incidents is that one incident will inspire others.

The bottom line is that the gun is just a tool. Take away the gun and people use knives, or a hammer, or a car, or build bombs... The sad truth is that if someone wants to commit murder they will find a way.

[Mad Mike]

And let's remember this thread....

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=94672&perpage=15&display=&highlight=zombie&pagenumber=1

It's when people do not take threats seriously that these things happen. Better to err on the safe side than find out later that a mass murder could have been prevented.

[Bang]

Maybe it's time to get emotional Mike.
As I said before, i don't know the answers, I just know the results of what we keep seeing over and over again. I also know that this issue is as polarized as it can be, and neither side is willing to budge to any sort of compromises to try to make our land safer.
People just keep butting heads, and people keep getting killed.
Maybe the answer lies in technology,, if smart gun technology is employed by those cops, and the gun won't fire for someone else.. then what? Could it have helped?
The problem as I see it, is maybe it would have, maybe it wouldn't have, but when something like this is proposed, the gun side will hear nothing of it. There's no flexibility on this issue, and maybe it's time for some emotion to come into play and perhaps force some flexibility on th part of the lobbyists and high dollar interests who control our fate on such matters.
Maybe if we can crack down on gun sellers.. I don't know,, how about this,,, if Howard Stern says something on air that is 'indecent'.. like,, i dunno,, poopy, or kaka... he can be fined a half million bucks based on a new law on the president's desk.
How about if a bullet from a gun seller's gun ends up in a dead guy, the seller pays a half million bucks.
Might not seem fair, but then maybe they won't sell a bagful of nines to some gangbanger with the proper driver's license. maybe they will be more discreet with who they do business.
I don't know, I just know that it's high time something be done.

Play that lottery. Duck and COVER.

~Bang

[stevenaa]

I just see it differently, Bang. So many want to address the symptom, instead of dealing with the cause. You are focused on the guns as if they are the cause of the problem. That couldn't be further from the truth.

"How about if a bullet from a gun seller's gun ends up in a dead guy, the seller pays a half million bucks"

And somehow re-directing the responsibility from the guilty is going to help the situation?

How about having the the maker of the automobile that the drunk driver was driving that killed your child write you a half million dollar check? Afterall, the maker could have installed a breather test that disables the car if the driver has been drinking.

How about we start holding the parents of these children responsible. Can you honestly tell me that there wasn't some gross negligence on their part? I don't know if you have children, but do you think, if you do or will have them, that any of your children will be capable of this sort of thing. I thinkfrom reading your posts that you are a caring, intelligent person, so I would think you believe, barring some mental deficiency, that it isn't a possiblity.

These shootings are a symptom of problems that are only going to get worse. Parents are not raising their own children. In the quest for bigger and better things, kids are shoved off to day care and then shoved off to school. The kids are the ones suffering from lack of attention, love and discipline from the only people who are truly responsible for giving it. It saddens me deeply that so many children are neglected. I see it constantly at my girls elementary school and it isn't relegated to any one social class.

[Thiebear]

So we stop selling guns to people and like with the Washington D.C. and Virginia examples the stats go up? Or the US/Europe example. or the My father was a cop so if i took his gun and shot people the cops should pay for not training him to protect his gun against me.
Or
Or
Or
Or
Or
I might not express it as well as MM but I'm not willing to give up on the Constitution. Especially when there are personal responsibilities and parental responsibilities that take a higher precident.

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

The simple fact is people ATTACK schools and churches because they know the probabiliy of armament is low. No one attacks police stations or military bases or hunter conventions or gun shows.

We'll never have protection from the weapons used by the evil or insane. We can only EQUIP OURSELVES with the method of our defense.

The only thing 'new' about this is the fact that a troubled or psychopathic kid today will not join a gang of bandits(though some WILL join gangs) or anything like that. Instead, they'll try to get access to weapons and attack the innocent to unleash their nihilistic rage.

I see this as NO different than protecting yourselves from the guns of oppressive government. It's just that these scum aren't state actors.

Some guy in Japan KNIFED what, 11 little kids to death? One gun likely would have stopped him.

That security guard had no weapon to stop him--THERE is your story.

If he brought explosives to school like the Columbine killers, would it make people feel better about the deaths if they were caused by explosions?

When are we going to start ARMING those who are charged with our protection? Next time, it won't be some psycho kid, it'll be a terrorist group. What then will we do when they execute children in the dozens or HUNDREDS? Argue for more metal detectors?

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

steven

In this case, Weise's father killed himself and his mother had an accident that caused her brain damage. I understand that his grandparents took over custody.

Also, you have the whole thing with some people that you can't talk about "goth" or "weird" folk or THAT will set them off. Instead, it's their obsession with death, morbid interest in Hitler or other killers and the like that is the warning flag. What do you do when you put your foot down?

They kill you anyways like those two morons in PA that killed the one guy's parents who didn't want him in the KKK(or Aryan group.) Remember the guy with "Berserker" tatted on his forehead?

Maybe, and this sounds bad, some parents are just going to have to 'deal with' the problem of a bad seed before 10-20 people end up dead.

[stevenaa]

"In this case, Weise's father killed himself and his mother had an accident that caused her brain damage. I understand that his grandparents took over custody"

Wasn't aware of that. Could explain some of his issues, but he was raised by someone. Who in their right mind would let a boy go to school with his hair styled like devil horns?

Some people just don't want to accept that their children have mental problems. Two years running my daughters class has been stuck with 2 different mentally challenged disruptive kids whose parents refuse to accept have problems. We had to right a formal complaint last year before the school stepped in and sent the child to a school equipped to deal with the situation. It is sad that people aren't willing to face reality and do what's best for their children.

[Bang]

OK, so we decide that the way to do it is to arm ourselves. OK< if that is what is decided, then let's do something smart and make it very difficult to get something like body armor so that when some nutjob goes off, he can be taken down.
The problem i have is, .. I have no faith we would.. The gun lobby would make certain that every one of us can be complete killing machines.
The trouble I have with punishing people harder is that punishment is reactive,, it happens AFTER 7 or 8 people are dead. In fact, i think if we did make an example of parent,s it would make it even MORE attractive to some dipstick kid.. yay, be the killer, AND ruin mom and dad's life,, a doube bonus.
Unfortunately there's not a whole lot we can do to make people be better parents. But we might make it more difficult for their kids to kill a busload of classmates.
It's got to be time we do something proactive to try to put some sort of stop to the murderous lunacy that pervades this country.
All I'm saying is some sort of action is needed. We can spout words all day long, but it will not and has not stopped this kind of thing fom happening week in and week out.
Frankly, I'm just fed up with it all.

~Bang

[Skins24]

More:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0323051weise1.html

School Killer's Animated Terror
Minnesota teen posted bloody Flash film late last year

MARCH 23--The Minnesota teenager responsible for Monday's high school shooting spree last year created a violent, blood-soaked video that included an animated character shooting four people and blowing up a police car before committing suicide, The Smoking Gun has learned. Using the alias "Regret," Jeff Weise, 16, last October posted online a 30-second animation entitled "Target Practice." Click here to view Weise's crudely animated Flash production. Weise posted a second short, "Clown," several weeks after uploading "Traget Practice" to a popular multimedia web site. The 50-second "Clown" ends with one character apparently being strangled by the clown. In a brief bio accompanying his Flash animations, Weise described himself as "nothin but a Native American teenage-stoner-industrialist," whose favorite movies included "Dawn of the Dead," "Thunderheart," and "Lakota Woman." His favorite recording artists included Korn, Marilyn Manson, Rammstein, and John Lennon. The web page with links to Weise's two Flash animations includes his photo (seen above) and an e-mail address (decemberofthesoul@hotmail.com) that the teen used when posting 34 comments on the web site nazi.org, where Weise used the handles "nativenazi" and "todesengel," which translates to "angel of death" in German. According to police, Weise's killing rampage began with the murder of his grandfather and the man's female companion and ended at Red Lake High School, where he killed an unarmed security guard, a teacher, and five fellow students before apparently committing suicide. Seven others were wounded, including two teenage victims who remain in critical condition at a North Dakota hospital.

[stevenaa]

"The gun lobby would make certain that every one of us can be complete killing machines."

This is a complete misrepresentation of what the gun lobby is about, and you know it. Politics suck. You give a little and the other side uses that as leverage to take, take, take. Most of us that support gun ownership, would be happy to see more regulation. I believe, as you do, that it is needed. The problem is, the anti-gun lobby won't stop until it takes all the guns away. If we allow more laws to regulate gun ownership, the anti-gun lobby will use them as precedent to pass even more restrictive laws until they meet their goal. It is a bad situation and I think it is safe to say we are all fed up with it.

I have school age children, and it does frighten me that some nut case kid could bring tragedy to my life. However, I'm not willing to give up gun ownership to prevent it. There are larger issues here as well. You refuse to address the cause of the issue because you say we can't do anything about it. Well, you certainly aren't going to remove easy access to guns at this point. There are too many available.

I'm a law abiding citizen. However, if a law passed tomorrow requiring us to turn in our guns, I wouldn't do it. It'll be a sad day when we don't have the means to protect ourselves or engage in a sport we have passion about. This country was built on the premise of freedom, and I'm not giving mine up because as a society we refuse to address the issue of piss poor parenting.

We bombard our youth with violence in their games and entertainment. We fully desensitize them, we don't give them the love and attention they need and then we are shocked when they go off the deep end. Very depressing.