We MUST trade down

[TheGreek1973]

The more I think of it the more I say it is a MUST for us to trade down and pikup Rodgers with our 1st and Matt Jones with our second. Hell man if we didn't need a CB as bad as we do (if not for youth along at that position at least depth) I say draft Matt Jones with our first. Maybe trade down twice if possible. I have a feeling Matt Jones could very well become the next Randy Moss without the attitude. As of right now he is more physically talented that Moss. 6'-6" 4.37 40 with great hands. Talk about a guy that can grab a pass anywhere on the field. And with him you can also argue he can be our 3rd string QB also. I also think that Rodgers is a better CB than both Pack man and Rolle. He is not as highly rated because very few QBs dared to throw his way. Please please please FO make this happen. Get Rodgers and Matt Jones anyway possible.

[herrmag]

Originally posted by TheGreek1973
I have a feeling Matt Jones could very well become the next Randy Moss without the attitude.

Your thoughts betray you young Skywalker.:)

[MorgantownHokie88]

Sister. A twin sister. Chris Mortenson was wise to hide her from me. He's failures are now complete. If you won't turn to the dark side, then maybe she will.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

[Leonard Washington]

we probably won't be ABLE to trade down. SI was saying not many teams want the talent at the top of the draft, and if trade downs happen it will probably include a swap of firsts and a third or fourth rd pick (instead of the usual second).

[Trevor]

You really shouldn't just assume that we'll be able to trade down in what is a relatively weak top end draft.

Besides that, I can't believe how overhyped Matt Jones has become. I wouldn't touch him with anything above a 3rd rounder.

[BogeyMan]

I wouldn't take Matt Jones any earlier than the 3rd. Sure, he put up great numbers in his workouts. Every year some guy does this and usually turns out to be a flop - they are known as workout warriors.

Here are my problems with Jones:

1) he has never played WR at any level
2) he has never played WR against competition
3) Big and fast does not always = great receiver. Fluidity out of cuts, ability to set up dbs, gaining separation, and making both the easy and tough catches consistently are what makes a great receiver.

I'm intrigued with Jones and would love to see him as a Redskin. However, he is a development project and would be too high a risk in the 2nd or earlier IMO.

[TheGreek1973]

Originally posted by Leonard Washington
we probably won't be ABLE to trade down. SI was saying not many teams want the talent at the top of the draft, and if trade downs happen it will probably include a swap of firsts and a third or fourth rd pick (instead of the usual second).
----
Right now if I was Gibbs I would say to the Vikings let me have you 18th pick and your second rounder for our 9th. They would love the trade because on the surface is more value to them as they can get one of the priemier LB in DJ or Merriman. Then I would try to package the 2nd rounder with Gardner and move up as far as possible to get Jones. Like I said in my book he has way more upside than Mike Williams. The guy is over 240 pounds and runs a 4.37 40. He run for more yards as a QB than either Young or Vick and he is half a foot taller than Vick. What does that tell you? It tells me this guy is just a freak period and we must have him.

[VAsBeachBoy]

I'm am def' all for trading down it will just be tough. I am also all for drafting Rogers as I also think he will be the better corner (just like last year when I said Dunta robinson would be the better of him and Hall). Jones on the other hand I do not want unless we pick him up in the third (won't happen). You people really must understand there is a zero percent chance we will draft Jones, that's it. I'd rather use the second rounder we may receive on V. Jackson (6-5 240 something) now he'll be Gardner without the problems.

[TheGreek1973]

Originally posted by BogeyMan
I wouldn't take Matt Jones any earlier than the 3rd. Sure, he put up great numbers in his workouts. Every year some guy does this and usually turns out to be a flop - they are known as workout warriors.

Here are my problems with Jones:

1) he has never played WR at any level
2) he has never played WR against competition
3) Big and fast does not always = great receiver. Fluidity out of cuts, ability to set up dbs, gaining separation, and making both the easy and tough catches consistently are what makes a great receiver.

I'm intrigued with Jones and would love to see him as a Redskin. However, he is a development project and would be too high a risk in the 2nd or earlier IMO.

Are you kidding me? Let me answer you this way.

You got people (and scouts) that if we were picking #1 over all right now they would pick Mike Williams. A guy that has not played a down in over a year, a guy that had a great QB trhowing him the ball, a guy that was on a great all around team and a guy that until a month ago could barely run the 40 in 4.6 seconds.

Have you looked at what Jones stats are? The only reason this guy is not in the radar is because he wasn't playing in a school like USC, because let me tell you if he was his numbers would be sick. so he hasn't played WR. So what? He is a star Basketball player which means he can catch the ball, has the moves etc. WR IMO is one of the positions you can learn quick if you have the ability and ability this guys has by the truck load.

[Bucaro]

Thegreek, you are basing all of your comments on Mort (from your quotes) who is NOT a talent evaluator. He is a reporter who is okay at getting scoops. Also, don't forget his son is a QB at Arkansas and is vying for the spot that Jones used to inhabit. There might be some bias from a guy who is not a scout in the first place. I will say that Jones is intriguing but is still a project and should not be considered over a guy who has stood out at his position for 2-3 years rather than only playing it at the Senior Bowl

[Charlie Murphaaay]

Originally posted by TheGreek1973
As of right now he is more physically talented that Moss. 6'-6" 4.37 40 with great hands. Talk about a guy that can grab a pass anywhere on the field.

Matt Jones is an interesting and somewhat promising project, but to say he's more physically talented than Moss is an ignorant statement. Jones is a good athlete, but should not be placed in the same league with Moss, at least until he actually catches a pass in the NFL.

[Waleo32]

Originally posted by TheGreek1973
The more I think of it the more I say it is a MUST for us to trade down and pikup Rodgers with our 1st and Matt Jones with our second. Hell man if we didn't need a CB as bad as we do (if not for youth along at that position at least depth) I say draft Matt Jones with our first. Maybe trade down twice if possible. I have a feeling Matt Jones could very well become the next Randy Moss without the attitude. As of right now he is more physically talented that Moss. 6'-6" 4.37 40 with great hands. Talk about a guy that can grab a pass anywhere on the field. And with him you can also argue he can be our 3rd string QB also. I also think that Rodgers is a better CB than both Pack man and Rolle. He is not as highly rated because very few QBs dared to throw his way. Please please please FO make this happen. Get Rodgers and Matt Jones anyway possible.

I agree with Rogers being better than Pac, and Rolle. But when you say Matt Jones is a better talent then Moss, I have to disagree with that statement. He doesn't have better hads than Moss. The hasn't shown us anything on the field yet to prove it. The NFL isn't a combine, or a Senior Bowl. Matt Jones is talented yes but we should compare his ability to Moss. Moss is a freak. His game speed is even faster. O yeah but your right we should definitely trade down.

[TheGreek1973]

Originally posted by Bucaro
Thegreek, you are basing all of your comments on Mort (from your quotes) who is NOT a talent evaluator. He is a reporter who is okay at getting scoops. Also, don't forget his son is a QB at Arkansas and is vying for the spot that Jones used to inhabit. There might be some bias from a guy who is not a scout in the first place. I will say that Jones is intriguing but is still a project and should not be considered over a guy who has stood out at his position for 2-3 years rather than only playing it at the Senior Bowl
----
You are wrong pal I am not basing my comments on Mort. All I am saying we are ready according to a lot of us here to use if available (and he is not going to be) the number 9 pick for Mike Williams. Hey I like the guy and I think he can be a great receiver. All I am saying is by trading down we can get Rodgers and Matt Jones and IMO with Matt Jones we could be getting what we need. A great WR, especially in the red zone. What do you guys think Mike Williams would be? A bombs away receiver? No way. Well, Matt Jones can also be that.

[skinsfan12]

To trade down we need bait on our hook. The only bait that these fish are biting is Braylon, and he needs to somehow fall to #9. If this happens, we have a real good shot to trade down (and I would do it in a heartbeat). Otherwise, look for us to fill the CB spot with one of the top prospects on the board (Rolle, Jones, Rogers).

.

[TheGreek1973]

Originally posted by Waleo32


I agree with Rogers being better than Pac, and Rolle. But when you say Matt Jones is a better talent then Moss, I have to disagree with that statement. He doesn't have better hads than Moss. The hasn't shown us anything on the field yet to prove it. The NFL isn't a combine, or a Senior Bowl. Matt Jones is talented yes but we should compare his ability to Moss. Moss is a freak. His game speed is even faster. O yeah but your right we should definitely trade down.
----
I am not saying that if given a choice I would be picking Jones over Moss right now guys. Just like Moss got drafted 21st I bet if I said back then Moss has the physical talent to go #1 overall in that draft people would have called me crazy. No one knows how good a player will turn out in the NFL (look at Brady as an example). When I say Jones may be more physicall talented than Moss is because of his numbers right now. When you look at a guy 6-6 242lbs and runs a 4.4 or less how would you call it? We are talking about the upside here or more to the point the pontential upside. That is all.

I can't help thinking Jones in a Gibbs style offense, running the end-a-round with the option to pass. If you were a CB would you leave your man and try to come up and tackle, because lets face it with this guy's speed very few FS (Taylor) and even fewer LBs can catch him and get a tackle.

[Bucaro]

I appologize, greek, if you are not regergitating Mort but you did quote him 4 seperate times in your rant. I think he CAN be good but you are making your points as if he has done ANYTHING to this point. I think he would be a good project and has great upside but not in the early second round IMHO

[Oldskool]

I’m sorry Greek but you’re wrong. This draft is so diluted of talent the farther down you go in the 1st round its frightening. I can’t remember a draft class this bad.

I trust that the FO sees this in their evaluations.

[TheGreek1973]

Originally posted by Oldskool
I’m sorry Greek but you’re wrong. This draft is so diluted of talent the farther down you go in the 1st round its frightening. I can’t remember a draft class this bad.

I trust that the FO sees this in their evaluations.
----
In actuallity this draft is poor at the top. Look at the two top QBs look at the fact that no OT should go in the 1st 10 spots, look at the fact that the combine has dropped/moved up several players etc. Many scouts are saying you can find great talent in the later rounds. Thus the problem with our situation right now. Unless a QB makes it to our spot or one of the WRs no many teams would be willing to move up. That is why I say maybe the Vikins as they will be able to draft defense (Marriman, DJ).

[Oldskool]

Originally posted by TheGreek1973

----
In actuallity this draft is poor at the top. Look at the two top QBs look at the fact that no OT should go in the 1st 10 spots, look at the fact that the combine has dropped/moved up several players etc. Many scouts are saying you can find great talent in the later rounds. Thus the problem with our situation right now. Unless a QB makes it to our spot or one of the WRs no many teams would be willing to move up. That is why I say maybe the Vikins as they will be able to draft defense (Marriman, DJ).

forget the QB's im talking about the positions we need to draft. Once you get passed the big 2 WR's, the 2 CB's what do you have?

mediocre DE’s, average OL and CB’s along with 2nd tier WR's (our team is full of those right now).

[dfbovey]

Originally posted by Oldskool


forget the QB's im talking about the positions we need to draft. Once you get passed the big 2 WR's, the 2 CB's what do you have?

mediocre DE’s, average OL and CB’s along with 2nd tier WR's (our team is full of those right now).

I don't think you could be MORE wrong. The draft class is pretty deep in all the positions we are looking at.

WR, CD and DE all have very solid prospects well into the 3rd and 4th round this year.

[TheGreek1973]

Originally posted by Oldskool


forget the QB's im talking about the positions we need to draft. Once you get passed the big 2 WR's, the 2 CB's what do you have?

mediocre DE’s, average OL and CB’s along with 2nd tier WR's (our team is full of those right now).
---
You can't call Rodgers just mediocre. The guy is a playmaker more so than Pack-man and Rolle. In fact this is a very deep draft for DBs. You can't call DJ just another OLB, he will bea force and I just hope the Cowturds don't get him. There are some decent DEs ect.

[Oldskool]

Originally posted by TheGreek1973

---
You can't call Rodgers just mediocre. The guy is a playmaker more so than Pack-man and Rolle. In fact this is a very deep draft for DBs. You can't call DJ just another OLB, he will bea force and I just hope the Cowturds don't get him. There are some decent DEs ect.

Try looking at the reviews of the players before singing their praises


Carlos Rodgers

http://www.nflfuture.com/carlosrogers.html

Weaknesses
Some might look at his size and say that is a negative. He is a pretty skinny looking prospect and is not a jaw dropping athlete either. I think he also needs to work a little on his technique as well. He needs to get lower when back peddling and needs to work on using his hips more as well.
http://www.draftboardinsider.com/players/CB/rogers-c.html

Negatives:
Rogers isn't a finished product, and most teams realize that. He doesn't have the best play recognition. He’s forced at times to overcome that with his straight-line speed. He's not a stout run stopper, preferring to make plays in the passing game, leaving the tackling of the big guys to the other big guys. He's needs to get better at slipping blocks in run support, rather than getting swallowed up. As I said, Rogers uses his physical gifts to carry him, where at the next level, he'll need to develop much better technique to win the battles against NFL wideouts. Like most really great college cornerbacks, Rogers opens his hips up way too early, knowing they can simply outrun the wide receiver, rather than needing to maintain his backpedal. Don't kid yourself, for every big play Rogers makes, he could just as easily give one up, but he just needs time to learn how to play the game. You can teach him proper technique, but you can't teach 6'1"/200 lbs. with 4.4 speed.

I have no issue with Derrick Johnson, but we dont need a OLB, unless you want to get rid of Arrington.

[Neophyte]

Trading down is easier said than done and it does not sound like a lot of teams will be doing it this year because it does not sound like anyone likes a player enough to trade up.

[Waleo32]

Originally posted by TheGreek1973

----
I am not saying that if given a choice I would be picking Jones over Moss right now guys. Just like Moss got drafted 21st I bet if I said back then Moss has the physical talent to go #1 overall in that draft people would have called me crazy. No one knows how good a player will turn out in the NFL (look at Brady as an example). When I say Jones may be more physicall talented than Moss is because of his numbers right now. When you look at a guy 6-6 242lbs and runs a 4.4 or less how would you call it? We are talking about the upside here or more to the point the pontential upside. That is all.

I can't help thinking Jones in a Gibbs style offense, running the end-a-round with the option to pass. If you were a CB would you leave your man and try to come up and tackle, because lets face it with this guy's speed very few FS (Taylor) and even fewer LBs can catch him and get a tackle.

True I see what you meant now. The difference between the two is Moss did it in college as a WR, and would have been a top 5 if it wasn't for his off the field problems. Matt Jones played QB in College. But he would be a possibilty in the 2nd or 3rd round.

[TheGreek1973]

Originally posted by Oldskool


Try looking at the reviews of the players before singing their praises



I have no issue with Derrick Johnson, but we dont need a OLB, unless you want to get rid of Arrington.
----

LOL. Funny how you left this out.


"I love this kid, he has the mentality of a pit bull and that is a great mentality to have at cornerback. Just does not quit, fights to the very end and is a very physical player even though he is not really that strong. Has great size at 6-1 and very long arms that really help him in pass coverage. Knows how to knock the ball away and has good enough hands to where he will not drop a chance at an interception."


Is that is not qualities you look in a CB I don't know what is.

[Oldskool]

Originally posted by TheGreek1973

----

LOL. Funny how you left this out.


"I love this kid, he has the mentality of a pit bull and that is a great mentality to have at cornerback. Just does not quit, fights to the very end and is a very physical player even though he is not really that strong. Has great size at 6-1 and very long arms that really help him in pass coverage. Knows how to knock the ball away and has good enough hands to where he will not drop a chance at an interception."


Is that is not qualities you look in a CB I don't know what is.

I only posted the negatives because it seems that all you want to look at is the positives.

Either way, the kid is a raw, natual talent that needs to learn how to play the game.

[TheSkipper]

I am for trading down as well, but not for Matt Jones. Just because he is big and fast doesn't make him a great football player. If he is so great, why can't he come out and play quarterback..................because he sucked at it that's why.

And how can you possibly put Jones in the same breath as Mike Williams and his 36 or so touchdowns in two seasons.

[TheGreek1973]

Originally posted by Oldskool


I only posted the negatives because it seems that all you want to look at is the positives.

Either way, the kid is a raw, natual talent that needs to learn how to play the game.
---
No you posted the negative because you were trying to defend your dislike of Rodgers pal. The you belittle my post by saying "Try looking at the reviews of the players before singing their praises". Now why don't you go find me a player review where the negative just says....no negatives here this guy is money in the bank.

[beastman]

Actually, last year I read several reviews of Sean Taylor which listed "none" as his negatives.

And Pac-Man makes more plays than Carlos Rodgers does. It's obvious if you've actually ever seen them play.

[Blue Collar Skins]

Originally posted by Oldskool
I’m sorry Greek but you’re wrong. This draft is so diluted of talent the farther down you go in the 1st round its frightening. I can’t remember a draft class this bad.

I trust that the FO sees this in their evaluations.

I recall a certain someone, almost in every thread, talking about don't draft Sean Taylor we need Defensive Linemen. I also seem to recall that was you, but since I am getting older, I could be mistaken. It's just funny that you are telling TheGreek he is wrong. Not that you have a different opinion or anything, but point-blank, stating a fact, you're wrong. In my opinion, I find that priceless coming from someone, who it seems like, has struck out more times than Jose Conseco on a bad day.

[thinker]

The fact is that this year with so much uncertainty about the value of different players and the uncertainty about what a number of teams are planning to do before us and after us and us being at #9 . . . it's pretty tough to project. It is interesting speculation - but it's just speculation.

Instead of speculating, the Redskins and the other 31 teams are doing something else. They're grading all the players. This process won't be done until briefly before the draft. It is from this process that trade ups and trade downs occur on draft day. If the Vikings rate DJ as the 5th best player and Merriman as the 7th best player and they pick one at #7 and the other is still available at our spot then a trade with them for their #18 and their 2nd rounder becomes possible. Etc. Etc. with all the other teams. Somebody has to fall to #9 that somebody behind us feels like they just have to get. This is presently unknowable because teams haven't completed their boards and even if they had they would let anybody know.

What I do know for certain is that teams value different players in very different ways and that this causes unexpected players to drop and climb up the draft.

It is also clear that the Skins have not completed this process because there doesn't seem to be any info out there that we have locked onto one or two players - only speculation that we'd be looking at cb's and wr's and consequently at Edwards, Williams, Rolle, Rogers, etc. -- duh. We haven't actually heard anything like last year where it was clear by draft day that we were going to pick at #5 and it would almost certainly be Taylor or wineslow.

When we get more word of who the Skins have brought in for interviews etc. then we'll have a better idea.

As far as the point of this thread - I'm sure it would be great to get Jones as it would be to get any number of players. If we had run our team for the last years like the iggles and Pats then we'd have a ton of picks and it would be easier to take a flyer on a great athlete playing a new position. Currently with only 2 first day picks we are coming at it from a point of weakness though.

[Oldskool]

Originally posted by Blue Collar Skins


I recall a certain someone, almost in every thread, talking about don't draft Sean Taylor we need Defensive Linemen. I also seem to recall that was you, but since I am getting older, I could be mistaken. It's just funny that you are telling TheGreek he is wrong. Not that you have a different opinion or anything, but point-blank, stating a fact, you're wrong. In my opinion, I find that priceless coming from someone, who it seems like, has struck out more times than Jose Conseco on a bad day.

Very contrite for someone who never sticks his neck out to criticize me.

Ive done a mia culpa on my thoughts on GW last year but mu opinion on the draft pick has not and will not change. The amount of sacks we got last year out of our DE's proves my point.

But then again, im talking to someone who wont walk my walk.

[thinker]

Originally posted by Oldskool
Ive done a mia culpa on my thoughts on GW last year but mu opinion on the draft pick has not and will not change. The amount of sacks we got last year out of our DE's proves my point.


Invariably hindsight is 20/20, but Oldskool given what we saw last year, is there another player you wish we had taken at #5 than Taylor?

[Oldskool]

Originally posted by thinker


Invariably hindsight is 20/20, but Oldskool given what we saw last year, is there another player you wish we had taken at #5 than Taylor?

not at #5.

[dfbovey]

Originally posted by Oldskool


not at #5.

How many sacks did the the DEs from last year's draft class have? There really isn't anyone who stood out as a stud, so I would hope that you would say that you wouldn't want one of those DEs over Taylor at all, not just at #5.

IMO, we clearly got the best defensive player in the draft, and the lineman were substandard.

[ryerye05]

We need to find a way to draft matt jones, he's unreal. Anyone else agree

[fpickering]

Originally posted by TheGreek1973
The more I think of it the more I say it is a MUST for us to trade down and pikup Rodgers with our 1st and Matt Jones with our second. Hell man if we didn't need a CB as bad as we do (if not for youth along at that position at least depth) I say draft Matt Jones with our first. Maybe trade down twice if possible. I have a feeling Matt Jones could very well become the next Randy Moss without the attitude. As of right now he is more physically talented that Moss. 6'-6" 4.37 40 with great hands. Talk about a guy that can grab a pass anywhere on the field. And with him you can also argue he can be our 3rd string QB also. I also think that Rodgers is a better CB than both Pack man and Rolle. He is not as highly rated because very few QBs dared to throw his way. Please please please FO make this happen. Get Rodgers and Matt Jones anyway possible.

I like the enthusiasm but there are a few things wrong with this.

1. If we are looking to trade down and target Carlos Rogers (which I think is the best thing we can do at this point) we would have to be pick before #15. KC at 15 will take Rogers. Even if they miraculously did not then NO at #16 would.

The best we would get in return with this type of trade down would be a 3rd round pick.

2. There is just NO WAY that risking out #1 or even a #2 (if we had one) on a college QB who will play WR in the NFL is a smart move. It is just too risky. If the Skins did this then I would definitely be pissed. More pissed then I have ever been at the organization.

3. Stating that Jones is more gifted than Randy Moss as a WR is just straight up silly.

[fpickering]

Originally posted by fpickering


I like the enthusiasm but there are a few things wrong with this.

1. If we are looking to trade down and target Carlos Rogers (which I think is the best thing we can do at this point) we would have to be pick before #15. KC at 15 will take Rogers. Even if they miraculously did not then NO at #16 would.

The best we would get in return with this type of trade down would be a 3rd round pick.

2. There is just NO WAY that risking out #1 or even a #2 (if we had one) on a college QB who will play WR in the NFL is a smart move. It is just too risky. If the Skins did this then I would definitely be pissed. More pissed then I have ever been at the organization.

3. Stating that Jones is more gifted than Randy Moss as a WR is just straight up silly.

[fpickering]

Originally posted by TheGreek1973

----
You are wrong pal I am not basing my comments on Mort. All I am saying we are ready according to a lot of us here to use if available (and he is not going to be) the number 9 pick for Mike Williams. Hey I like the guy and I think he can be a great receiver. All I am saying is by trading down we can get Rodgers and Matt Jones and IMO with Matt Jones we could be getting what we need. A great WR, especially in the red zone. What do you guys think Mike Williams would be? A bombs away receiver? No way. Well, Matt Jones can also be that.

Do you have any footage or stats that point to Jones being a great WR, especially in the red zone?

It is difficult enough to predict who will be a great NFL WR when basing your opinion on what you saw him do in college in 3-4 years.

I would not even draft this guy in the 3rd round because I would opt for a Guard or a defensive end.

[fpickering]

Originally posted by skinsfan12
To trade down we need bait on our hook. The only bait that these fish are biting is Braylon, and he needs to somehow fall to #9. If this happens, we have a real good shot to trade down (and I would do it in a heartbeat). Otherwise, look for us to fill the CB spot with one of the top prospects on the board (Rolle, Jones, Rogers).

.

I respectfully disagree. There are a number of players who could be trade down bait including Derrick Johnson Cadillac Williams, Alex Barron, and Antrel Rolle.

The ideal situation here would be to move down a couple of spots and get Carlos Rogers an d a 3rd rounder.

[fpickering]

Originally posted by TheGreek1973

----
I am not saying that if given a choice I would be picking Jones over Moss right now guys. Just like Moss got drafted 21st I bet if I said back then Moss has the physical talent to go #1 overall in that draft people would have called me crazy. No one knows how good a player will turn out in the NFL (look at Brady as an example). When I say Jones may be more physicall talented than Moss is because of his numbers right now. When you look at a guy 6-6 242lbs and runs a 4.4 or less how would you call it? We are talking about the upside here or more to the point the pontential upside. That is all.

I can't help thinking Jones in a Gibbs style offense, running the end-a-round with the option to pass. If you were a CB would you leave your man and try to come up and tackle, because lets face it with this guy's speed very few FS (Taylor) and even fewer LBs can catch him and get a tackle.

I remember Mike Mammula had freakish athletic ability. Look what happened to him. He was a gigantic bust.

You cannot base things only on athletic ability.

Oh, and if Moss was a boy scout he definitely could have gone #1 overall but he had some character issues that made people pass on him.

[fpickering]

Originally posted by Oldskool


forget the QB's im talking about the positions we need to draft. Once you get passed the big 2 WR's, the 2 CB's what do you have?

mediocre DE’s, average OL and CB’s along with 2nd tier WR's (our team is full of those right now).

A couple of points:

1. Carlos Rogers is not average. He may turn out to be better than Jones and Rolle.

2. Alex Barron is an above average LT.

3. I would totally agree with you that there is no standout DE in the bunch.

[Blue Collar Skins]

Originally posted by Oldskool


Very contrite for someone who never sticks his neck out to criticize me.

Ive done a mia culpa on my thoughts on GW last year but mu opinion on the draft pick has not and will not change. The amount of sacks we got last year out of our DE's proves my point.

But then again, im talking to someone who wont walk my walk.

Why should I have criticized you? That was your opinion, and I had a different opinion. So, instead of bashing your opinion I simply just stated mine, that we should draft Sean Taylor. I also loved the Chris Cooley drafting. Anyway, I guess to your credit, I defense sucked last year, and it was all because we didn't draft a Defensive End. :rolleyes:

[demarc007]

:laugh: at anybody suggesting Matt Jones is in the same zipcode as Randy Moss. Put the :high: down. Attitude aside Randy Moss' WR skills will be hard to match in our lifetime. Keep in mind Moss makes his living off one freakin' route, The Go. Everyone knows it's coming and he still beats double and triple coverage regularly. I'm not even going to get into speed, Moss will smoke Jones. :laugh: Matt Jones.