Mike Williams on ESPN Radio

[redskns21]

Mike Williams was just on ESPN Radio doing an interview wtih Mel Kiper and the other host of Gameday. They were talking about the draft and they asked Williams who he's had a pre-draft visit with. Williams said that he hasn't even talked with the Vikings, Bucs or Bears and that he's only visited with Washington and Dallas.

Kiper then rationalized that by saying that he's had a year off and so people have been tracking him all year and therefore don't need a face to face with him.

I'm not sure that I agree with that stance but it might be because I'm hoping that he falls to the Redskins @ 9.

[ngrubb8242]

I highly doubt that their going to draft a player that they havent had a face to face sitdown...Mel Kiper doesnt know everything he just guesses and is jsut trying to cover his ass.

[demarc007]

Originally posted by ngrubb8242
I highly doubt that their going to draft a player that they havent had a face to face sitdown...Mel Kiper doesnt know everything he just guesses and is jsut trying to cover his ass.
I'm sure Williams interviewed with every team 1-8 at the combine so if he did not formally visit he's still had a face to face. He will be long gone before 9.

[wilbur58z]

I know Williams said at the combine that he had talked to Tice and the other Minnesota coaches there.

[Skinned]

Not to mention the workouts he was having in Florida which were attended by Gruden and Bucs receiver Michael Clayton.

[Sebowski]

Originally posted by Skinned
Not to mention the workouts he was having in Florida which were attended by Gruden and Bucs receiver Michael Clayton.

And the USC workout as well.

Combine, FL workout, and USC workout. A team could have sold themselves onhim at any of those workouts.

[makaur]

Mike Williams won't last past Tennessee at #6. Norm Chow is their new Offensive Coordinator and since they need some (cheap) receivers, you can almost bet that the former USC coordinator would demand that the Titans' brass pick him. This is all assuming they don't trade down.

You know, if you guys want Williams that bad....you can always trade up with my Bears and pick him at #4. Come on, it will only cost your #9 pick and your 2nd or maybe your 3rd rounder!

j/k guys! :laugh:

[Zen-like Todd]

Originally posted by makaur
Mike Williams won't last past Tennessee at #6. Norm Chow is their new Offensive Coordinator and since they need some (cheap) receivers, you can almost bet that the former USC coordinator would demand that the Titans' brass pick him. This is all assuming they don't trade down.

You know, if you guys want Williams that bad....you can always trade up with my Bears and pick him at #4. Come on, it will only cost your #9 pick and your 2nd or maybe your 3rd rounder!

j/k guys! :laugh:

Done deal. Our #9 overall and our 2005 2nd round draft pick for the #4 overall.

[makaur]

I was actually kidding, but if you're interested!

The only reason we want to trade down is because we don't have a 3rd rounder this year (lost last year because we traded w/ Miami).

The question would then go....who would you guys pick at #4?

[Hauss]

It's a 2nd rounder and I think the trade was with the Saints.

[e16bball]

Originally posted by makaur
Mike Williams won't last past Tennessee at #6. Norm Chow is their new Offensive Coordinator and since they need some (cheap) receivers, you can almost bet that the former USC coordinator would demand that the Titans' brass pick him. This is all assuming they don't trade down.


A #6 overall pick is cheap these days?

And in any case, I really don't see how Norm Chow holds any great deal of sway. He is a new addition, and has had very little time to inject himself into the power structure. IMO, the pick will be made by Fisher and Floyd Reese.

[Zen-like Todd]

Originally posted by makaur
I was actually kidding, but if you're interested!

The only reason we want to trade down is because we don't have a 3rd rounder this year (lost last year because we traded w/ Miami).

The question would then go....who would you guys pick at #4?

The Redskins dont have a 2nd rounder this year. But since you already agreed... :D

[makaur]

Originally posted by e16bball

A #6 overall pick is cheap these days?


Yes. Draft picks, even 1st round picks, are relatively cheap when you compare it to a veteran contract....especially free agent signings. If you don't agree with me, take a look at your cap situation this year (and next). Snyder has shown that he would rather have veterans over draft picks. The result has seen Snyder buy some of the biggest names on the market over the past few years, which has annually left Skins fans with the delusion that you're going somewhere. Word to the wise...you can't buy championships in this league.


Originally posted by e16bball

And in any case, I really don't see how Norm Chow holds any great deal of sway. He is a new addition, and has had very little time to inject himself into the power structure. IMO, the pick will be made by Fisher and Floyd Reese.

Norm Chow doesn't hold any sway???

Uh, then why the F did they hire him in the first place??? If you're going to hire an "offensive genius" as he's been labeled, then I think you might want to listen to what the guy has to say. Sure, Fisher and Reese make the final call, but when you have a new offensive coordinator that tutored one of the top WR's in the draft, who also knows Chow's system, don't you think you'd pick the guy your new offensive coordinator wants? Especially after you had to dump your #1 receiver for salary cap reasons (Derrick Mason). Mike Williams, especially at #6, will be cheaper (in cap terms) over any WR that's currently a free agent or becomes available after June cuts.

I'd say it's a no brainer that the Titans will select Williams if he's there at #6. Of course, that's assuming that they haven't traded down....which is rumored they will do if someone is interested in moving up to that spot.

[makaur]

Originally posted by Zen-like Todd


The Redskins dont have a 2nd rounder this year. But since you already agreed... :D

True, very true....but maybe you missed the part where I said, "The only reason we want to trade down is because we don't have a 3rd rounder this year."

;)

[redman]

My best bet is that Williams will be drafted by the Bucs. They're trying to upgrade the Tampa passing game under Gruden, and Williams and Clayton would be a nice duo.

Our big decision will come if Braylon Edwards is still around at 9, which seems like more and more of a possibility as more people seem to be concluding over time that Williams is the better of the two. We'll see . . .

[GSF]

Originally posted by redman
My best bet is that Williams will be drafted by the Bucs. They're trying to upgrade the Tampa passing game under Gruden, and Williams and Clayton would be a nice duo.

Our big decision will come if Braylon Edwards is still around at 9, which seems like more and more of a possibility as more people seem to be concluding over time that Williams is the better of the two. We'll see . . .

If Edwards makes it to us Gibbs will take him. I think we would get some attractive trade down offers, but no way Gibbs passes up on Edwards or Williams IMO.

[PapaDRoc]

How incredible would it be if Williams fell to #9. In my opinion, he is the best player in the draft.

[zoony]

I've said it a million times...

The team that takes Mike Williams will regret it.

All you Williams lovers... bookmark this post, and give me hell about it next season if I'm wrong.

[makaur]

Originally posted by PapaDRoc
In my opinion, he is the best player in the draft.

I've been arguing that over at Bears message boards for the past few months. Hardly anyone agrees with me, which is fine, but I see Mike Williams as a guy that could completely change a team's offense...and I mean in a good way. From what I saw of him at USC, he's no burner...but he has no problem going over the middle and he'll catch just about anything.

What does that mean for an NFL team? Well, think about how much attention he'll get in the red zone. Opposing defenses will have no choice but to double team him because of his height and sure hands. What does that open up? For starters, your other receivers. If they're covered well, then that's when you roll out your lineman and hit your RB for a nice screen play. At worst, you're looking at 1st and goal.

With all of that, then what opens up? You can now pound the ball into the end zone, or you've got a shorter distance to hit Williams for a jump ball. With all the shut down corners in the league, I doubt any of them can out jump Mike Williams.

Braylon Edwards will be a fine receiver for whoever drafts him, but Mike Williams is the guy I wouldn't think twice about drafting.

[mooby]

yeah your right makaur. chicago wouldn't draft him. they've invested their hopes in an aging receiver. i think tennessee is gonna draft antrell rolle. minnesota is probably gonna go defense, and arizona doesn't need another receiver. that leaves him to us at #9.

[e16bball]

Not to belabor some previous points, but I feel like I should probably respond to some of your points Makaur.

A.) Number 6 overall picks are not cheap in any way shape or form. Let's look at Kellen Winslow's contract signed last year. Now remember that contract values increase from year to year, and also that Winslow is a TE, which is not exactly the sort of position that generally receives huge contracts.

His contract was worth a bit over $29 million with incentives that could possibly escalate the worth to as much as $40 million. Obviously he won't reach many of them due to his injury, but that is irrelevant.

If you would like to compare that to this year's free agent prices, you might look at Derrick Mason or Plaxico Burress, who were generally considered the two top WRs on the market. Mason's contract was worth about $20 million over 5 years, and Burress's was worth about $26 million over 6. Careful examination of these figures will bear out that Winslow's contract last year was larger than either of these contracts this year. Not to mention that there are many other 2nd- or 3rd-tier WRs like Corey Bradford out there; he signed a one year deal worth 800k.

B.) Norm Chow was added only because they lost Mike Heimerdinger, not because they had any burning desire to sign him up. He was a replacement of necessity, and thus I say he won't step in the door from day one and have a great deal of sway. Fisher and Reese have both been in place since 1994, and I daresay that an offensive coordinator is not going to come in and immediately have that pair jump when he says something. He may be allowed some input, but in my opinion they would be better off listening to Schwartz, who is the D-Coordinator of a unit which was 27th in the league last year BEFORE losing Samari Rolle, Kevin Carter, and Andre Dyson without making any significant additions. They would be absolutely remiss to take offense in the first round, unless it's Alex Barron in a trade-down situation. I doubt they would neglect such gaping holes as the ones they have at CB and OT because their OC "demands" a certain player.

Additionally, who is to say that Chow would even highly recommend Williams? He almost assuredly would, but remember that Williams has had his work ethic and desire questioned in the past. It's possible Chow has seen a darker side of him. Also, your point about Chow tutoring Williams is completely off the mark. Chow is a noted QB guru, and dealt almost exclusively with Palmer, Leinart, etc. He would have been fairly hands-off with the receivers and let their position coach do most of the work.

As I said, I hate to belabor these points because they are tangential at best to the thread itself, but I am one of these stubborn people who doesn't take kindly to being told he is wrong.

[redman]

Originally posted by e16bball
Additionally, who is to say that Chow would even highly recommend Williams? He almost assuredly would, but remember that Williams has had his work ethic and desire questioned in the past. I've seen people question his speed and his decision to enter the draft, but I've seen no questions regarding his work ethic or attitude. Can you provide a link?

[e16bball]

Originally posted by redman
I've seen people question his speed and his decision to enter the draft, but I've seen no questions regarding his work ethic or attitude. Can you provide a link?

There's very little question about his attitude, but questions about his work ethic stem mostly from his tendency to become overweight. People feel that he doesn't do the necessary work in the gym, and so he gets out of shape, basically. He answered some of those questions by showing up to the combine in excellent condition, but still some scouts feel that he will balloon back up to 240 once he gets that $$$.

I will try to find a link for you.

[redman]

Originally posted by e16bball
There's very little question about his attitude, but questions about his work ethic stem mostly from his tendency to become overweight. People feel that he doesn't do the necessary work in the gym, and so he gets out of shape, basically. He answered some of those questions by showing up to the combine in excellent condition, but still some scouts feel that he will balloon back up to 240 once he gets that $$$.

I will try to find a link for you. Why are you making that single episode into the basis for a general commentary on him? The guy wasn't able to practice or play football for a year. He was never out of shape while at USC. Again, where's the "tendency"?

[Oldskool]

Originally posted by redman
Why are you making that single episode into the basis for a general commentary on him? The guy wasn't able to practice or play football for a year. He was never out of shape while at USC. Again, where's the "tendency"?

He never was out of shape at USC but had little motivation due to him being able to abuse CB's at will.

However, once he was denied eligibility to enter the draft last year, that lit a fire under him to get into shape and try tob e the 1st WR taken in the draft.

[makaur]

Originally posted by e16bball
As I said, I hate to belabor these points because they are tangential at best to the thread itself, but I am one of these stubborn people who doesn't take kindly to being told he is wrong.

Nice points, but I still don't agree. I never said you were wrong, but a little bit of advice....if you got the impression that I meant that, then tough.

Contracts for draft picks are subject to the rookie pool, which in "cap terms" makes their contract cheap compared to veterans. It also depends on how a team structures the contract. Kellen Winslow's contract, per your example, is incentive laden....which still makes him cheap because it is highly doubtful that he'll ever achieve some of those incentives...especially now because he spent last year on IR which hurt him in terms of experience. Plus, it's backloaded, which means he's relatively cheap in the first few years and can be dumped to avoid the cap hit, or have his deal reworked so that the backloaded parts are moved into his second deal, or veteran contract....which will carry a significantly higher cap charge (signing bonus, roster bonus, etc.). So like I said, rookie contracts are cheaper than veteran contracts.

Although 1st round picks have huge signing bonuses compared to others, it's still no comparison to veteran contracts. Something else you have to consider.....the "transition tag" and "franchise label" that we hear every year. Take Peyton Manning for example. He was franchised last year and would have been paid the average of the top 5 paid QB's in the league. Instead, the Colts signed him to a much higher deal than the franchise offer. Do you think a rookie's contract comes anywhere near close to the cap hit of a transition or franchise player? Or, what about the deal that Mike "Herpes Simplex 7" Vick received? I guess you're right. Draft picks aren't cheap compared to the money thrown at veterans..... :rolleyes:

[makaur]

Originally posted by mooby
yeah your right makaur. chicago wouldn't draft him. they've invested their hopes in an aging receiver.

Muhsin Muhammad will be 32 when the season starts.....

Terrell Owens will turn 32 during the season, and Marvin Harrison will also be 32 during the 2005 season.

How come neither of them are referred to as "aging" receivers????

[Oldskool]

Originally posted by makaur


Muhsin Muhammad will be 32 when the season starts.....

Terrell Owens will turn 32 during the season, and Marvin Harrison will also be 32 during the 2005 season.

How come neither of them are referred to as "aging" receivers????

Beacuse nether of them have missed 8 games since 2001 like Muhammad has.

[makaur]

Originally posted by Oldskool


Because nether of them have missed 8 games since 2001 like Muhammad has.


8 games in 4 seasons....that's 8 out of 64 games. With the severity of some injuries these days, I'd say that's better than average.

[SlobberKnockinFootball]

Originally posted by ngrubb8242
I highly doubt that their going to draft a player that they havent had a face to face sitdown...Mel Kiper doesnt know everything he just guesses and is jsut trying to cover his ass.

When I was drafted to play baseball I never had a face to face talk with the scout who drafted me. So there is no creedence in that statement at all. I talked to 10-15 teams but not the one that drafted me. The first time I met him is when he showed up with a contract in his hand.

:2cents: