Mark Jackson just said

[Diablo23]

On ABC's halftime show.. Mark Jackson just said that Kobe will go down as the greatest player of all time.

:laugh:


Scottie was pissed. :laugh:

[skinsfanevan]

it will be a LONG time before anyone is as well liked as MJ was/is.

But i have to say, talent-wise, Kobe is the closest thing we have

[Diablo23]

I mean we all know Gilbert will go down as the GOAT ;)

[TheSteve]

Kobe is my favorite player, but come on Mark Jackson: You're embarassing yourself.

[dg28daman]

When I first read that I was like "Thats stupid" but then I got to comparing. It is possible. MJ hit big shots, so does Kobe. MJ won championships, so did Kobe (granted Shaq was there, but besides Shaq, the supporting cast was weak, and Jordan had Scottie and Rodman and Harper, much better team) They both make everyone better, and as Kobe has shown this season, they both can carry teams almost single handidly. IMO, Kobe wins one more Ship, he might be the considered the best ever.

[Gamebreaker]

Kobe does not make ANYONE better.

[Big C]

Kobe does not make ANYONE better.

agreed. was just about to post the same thing. go back and look at mj's stats. one year he averaged 30+ ppg, 8 apg, and 8 rpg, and was one of the best defenders in the game. look who was his center also. Bill Wennington, Luc Longley, and old Bill Cartwright. Kobe had shaq...theres no comparison

[Winslowalrob]

I missed the MJ era, but its going to be Lebron. Kobe cannot get his teammates to take it to another level, whether by honey or vinegar. Kobe plays great D, so don't forget that guys, but MJ was a more complete level in all other respects.

[Lil Kenzo]

When does the football season start???!!!

[LiveStrongSkins]

No one will ever be as great as Jordan. Not only would michael jordan take it to you every which way on offense, he would lock you down on the other end. I mean come on, he got so pissed that Ewing wasnt being shut down that he guarded him himself and did a damn good job. Not only that, but he demanded greatness out of his team mates and made them better. Jordan is the reason you remember names like Bill Wennington and Luc Longly. Kobe isnt as in your face as Jordan. His defense isnt half of what Jordans was. Jordan will remain the greatest to ever play for a very long time.

[TheSteve]

Guys, if you're going to idolize Jordan and exemplify his legacy with hyperbole, don't lie about Kobe with mediot lines parroted yet containing no substance. Kobe makes his teammates better. Every one of his teammates who has significant playing time are having career years in FG% and other statistics. If you would take off the sheep like dunce cap and stop gulping in everything the media says about the guy just because you dislike him, then maybe you'd realize Kobe is the best two guard in the league having the best individual season since Jordan.

[skinfan2k]

we can agree that phil jackson is the best coach of all-time. I mean the man has taken every team he was coached and took them to the playoffs, including the jordan retirement years and this year's lakers. He demands respect and the lakers shall be on top when they have sufficient role players and a center that can pass the ball

[Rocky21]

Kobe can't be the greatest player of all time becuase that spot is already taken by Wilt Chamberlain.

[Gamebreaker]

Guys, if you're going to idolize Jordan and exemplify his legacy with hyperbole, don't lie about Kobe with mediot lines parroted yet containing no substance. Kobe makes his teammates better. Every one of his teammates who has significant playing time are having career years in FG% and other statistics. If you would take off the sheep like dunce cap and stop gulping in everything the media says about the guy just because you dislike him, then maybe you'd realize Kobe is the best two guard in the league having the best individual season since Jordan.

You can ask anyone who's been posting in this forum for the last year or two, I definitely do not idiolize Jordan. Far from it, I'm just objective. Kobe does not make his teammates better. Let's go through the team:

Smush Parker - This is the first time he's ever got in any real significant time. So of course his numbers are better than previous seasons, you really have nothing to compare to. The only other time he played 16 games in a season was his rookie season.

Lamar Odom - Yes, this is his highest year in FG%. Yet this because he's taking less shots now, not because Kobe is setting him up better. This is obvious by his lower average in points.

Kwame Brown - Statistically, he's looking no better than he usually has as a Wizard. Realistically, he finally pulled his head out of his ass once Chris Mihm got injured and has averaged 12 and 8 since then. Really can't credit Kwame for that rare consistency in his game, more like Pil Jackson. And again, his FG% is higher because he's taking the least amount of shots since his rookie season. I guess Kobe and MJ have THAT in common, they don't like giving Kwame the ball. :laugh:

Chris Mihm - The only player that your statement really works for. He's having the best season of his career.

So 1 out of 4 players does not mean he makes his teammates better.

[Big C]

Guys, if you're going to idolize Jordan and exemplify his legacy with hyperbole, don't lie about Kobe with mediot lines parroted yet containing no substance. Kobe makes his teammates better. Every one of his teammates who has significant playing time are having career years in FG% and other statistics. If you would take off the sheep like dunce cap and stop gulping in everything the media says about the guy just because you dislike him, then maybe you'd realize Kobe is the best two guard in the league having the best individual season since Jordan.

and jordan won 6 titles with a team that is really comprable to that. pippen is better than odom but the rest is really comprable. kobe is just sneaking the team into the playoffs.

http://www.databasebasketball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=JORDAMI01

http://www.databasebasketball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=BRYANKO01

the stats speak for themselves really

[Warhead36]

Kobe's game compares to Jordan's, but Kobe will never go down as the best of all-time because he won't have the impact off the court that Jordan did.

Jordan was the most well known athlete WORLDWIDE, hell even now he is still easily the most well known and popular.

Jordan helped revolutionize the NBA and took its popularity to a whole new level.

Kobe may put up the numbers, but Jordan is and always will be the best of all-time.

[Skins11]

When I first read that I was like "Thats stupid" but then I got to comparing. It is possible. MJ hit big shots, so does Kobe. MJ won championships, so did Kobe (granted Shaq was there, but besides Shaq, the supporting cast was weak, and Jordan had Scottie and Rodman and Harper, much better team) They both make everyone better, and as Kobe has shown this season, they both can carry teams almost single handidly. IMO, Kobe wins one more Ship, he might be the considered the best ever.

"Granted Shaq was there"? Are you kidding?? Shaq been been THE MOST dominating force in the NBA since Jordan retired. Kobe was nowhere near the #1 guy on that team. To think that he was the main reason the Lakers won 3 championships is asinine.

And why should Kobe need to only win one championship as the #1 star on the team to considered the best ever when jordan won 6? In that case, shouldn't Tim Duncan be the best ever?

[skinfan2k]

"

And why should Kobe need to only win one championship as the #1 star on the team to considered the best ever when jordan won 6? In that case, shouldn't Tim Duncan be one of the best ever?


well, Tim Duncan may go down as the best PF in NBA history if he continues to play like he does. i mean he is probably has the best fundamentals ive seen in a big man

[Big C]

well, Tim Duncan may go down as the best PF in NBA history if he continues to play like he does. i mean he is probably has the best fundamentals ive seen in a big man

he may, but i still rate barkley and bird better than him

[skinfan2k]

is rodman on ur list :)

[Diablo23]

Rodman was probably one of the best rebounders in nba history.

[TheSteve]

"Granted Shaq was there"? Are you kidding?? Shaq been been THE MOST dominating force in the NBA since Jordan retired. Kobe was nowhere near the #1 guy on that team. To think that he was the main reason the Lakers won 3 championships is asinine.


Did you even watch the Lakers dynastys? Kobe was the #1 option come the 4th QTR and consistently carried that team when Shaq was in trouble. The only season where Shaq was the real undisputed #1 option and they weren't equals was the first championship. Without Kobe, Shaq would still be ringless.

[TheSteve]

and jordan won 6 titles with a team that is really comprable to that. pippen is better than odom but the rest is really comprable. kobe is just sneaking the team into the playoffs.

http://www.databasebasketball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=JORDAMI01

http://www.databasebasketball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=BRYANKO01

the stats speak for themselves really

LMAO. Are you serious? The Bulls title teams would WIPE the floor with the current Lakers squad. Odom can not hold Pippen's jock dude. They had a HOF PF in Dennis Rodman, six man of the year in Tony Kukoc, and excellent veteran role players like Steve Kerr and etc. Sorry, but I can't really take you seriously if you're trying to propogate that Jordan won with a team similiar in talent as the current Lakers squad. There's a reason those Bulls dynasties are considered some of the best ever.

[TheSteve]

You can ask anyone who's been posting in this forum for the last year or two, I definitely do not idiolize Jordan. Far from it, I'm just objective. Kobe does not make his teammates better. Let's go through the team:

Smush Parker - This is the first time he's ever got in any real significant time. So of course his numbers are better than previous seasons, you really have nothing to compare to. The only other time he played 16 games in a season was his rookie season.

Lamar Odom - Yes, this is his highest year in FG%. Yet this because he's taking less shots now, not because Kobe is setting him up better. This is obvious by his lower average in points.

Kwame Brown - Statistically, he's looking no better than he usually has as a Wizard. Realistically, he finally pulled his head out of his ass once Chris Mihm got injured and has averaged 12 and 8 since then. Really can't credit Kwame for that rare consistency in his game, more like Pil Jackson. And again, his FG% is higher because he's taking the least amount of shots since his rookie season. I guess Kobe and MJ have THAT in common, they don't like giving Kwame the ball. :laugh:

Chris Mihm - The only player that your statement really works for. He's having the best season of his career.

So 1 out of 4 players does not mean he makes his teammates better.

You really typed a whole bunch of nothing. So am I to take it that anytime Kobe's teammates do well it's always inspite of Kobe no matter what? using that tactic of debate you're right, Kobe will never make his teammates better because its never to his credit when they do well. Are you seriously going to try to imply that if you took Kobe off the Lakers his teammates would do just as well? Because if Kobe isn't making anyone on that team better then there shouldn't be ANY individual drop off in performance if you take Kobe off the team.

[Skins11]

Did you even watch the Lakers dynastys? Kobe was the #1 option come the 4th QTR and consistently carried that team when Shaq was in trouble. The only season where Shaq was the real undisputed #1 option and they weren't equals was the first championship. Without Kobe, Shaq would still be ringless.

Without Shaq, Kobe would definitely be ringless. Without Kobe, Shaq may or may not have been ringless depending on who else they brought in. It wasn't until after Kobe became the #1 guy that the Lakers stopped winning championships (like the season that Shaq was out for a while and the Lakers had a losing record, only to make the playoffs after Shaq returned... and the season where Gary Payton and Karl Malone were on the team, Kobe was the #1 guy again).

There's a difference between being clutch and being the foundation of the team. Robert Horry is incredibly clutch, but would you build your team around him?

Now, of course I'm not saying Kobe is a Robert Horry, but this just illustrates the difference between taking over in the 4th quarter vs. being the primary breadmaker of the team. For a football analogy, without Ryp's accurate ball the Skins may not have won a championship in '92, but where would he have been without that offensive line that probably ranks among the best of all time?

[GOSKINS_08]

I think for people to say Kobe will be better than Jordan, Kobe has to win atleast 1 championship without Shaq.

[TheSteve]

Without Shaq, Kobe would definitely be ringless. Without Kobe, Shaq may or may not have been ringless depending on who else they brought in. It wasn't until after Kobe became the #1 guy that the Lakers stopped winning championships (like the season that Shaq was out for a while and the Lakers had a losing record, only to make the playoffs after Shaq returned... and the season where Gary Payton and Karl Malone were on the team, Kobe was the #1 guy again).

There's a difference between being clutch and being the foundation of the team. Robert Horry is incredibly clutch, but would you build your team around him?

Now, of course I'm not saying Kobe is a Robert Horry, but this just illustrates the difference between taking over in the 4th quarter vs. being the primary breadmaker of the team. For a football analogy, without Ryp's accurate ball the Skins may not have won a championship in '92, but where would he have been without that offensive line that probably ranks among the best of all time?

We can play this game all day. Without Pippen, MJ might have been ringless. He didn't win until Pippen came into his own did he?

Furthermore, Kobe was never truly the #1 option until AFTER Shaq left LA so I'm not sure what you're talking about. When Shaq was there the Offense ran through him which was why Kobe was frustrated. The Lakers only deviated from that when Shaq was injured or they needed Kobe to rescue them in the 4th QTR.

Regardless, if you'd been paying attention in '04 you'd know the Lakers lost to the Pistons due to poor coaching and adjustments by Phil Jackson. Nobody on that Laker squad was stepping up and Kobe tried to force it and ended up looking bad. Ironically, as bad as LA played if Karl Malone hadn't gotten injured the Lakers would have undoubtedly won their 4th title.

And it's not suprising the Lakers had a losing record in 02-03 when Shaq went out when they were notoriously slow starters and that was an older veteran team built to play off of Shaq not Kobe Bryant.

And if you're seriously going to argue Kobe isn't suited to be a franchise player after this season then you've lost me. He's putting up the best numbers since Michael freaking Jordan and the Lakers are in the playoffs again. What more do you want? They've completely rebuilt that team and you're going to put Kobe and the Lakers down because they aren't winning championships when they don't even have a history together to draw chemistry from?

Also, I love it when people bring up the fact that Kobe missed the playoffs last year with Odom when Wade didn't-completely skipping over the fact that Kobe and Odom were injured so much in 04-05 that they only played about 45 games together, plus Coach Rudy T resigned.

[Big C]

LMAO. Are you serious? The Bulls title teams would WIPE the floor with the current Lakers squad. Odom can not hold Pippen's jock dude. They had a HOF PF in Dennis Rodman, six man of the year in Tony Kukoc, and excellent veteran role players like Steve Kerr and etc. Sorry, but I can't really take you seriously if you're trying to propogate that Jordan won with a team similiar in talent as the current Lakers squad. There's a reason those Bulls dynasties are considered some of the best ever.

1993 NBA champion Chicago Bulls 2006 LA Lakers

Pts R A -------------------------------Pts R A

PG Armstrong 10 2 4---------------------PG Parker 11.5 3.3 3.7
SG MJ 32 6.7 5.5 ---------------------SG Bryant 35.4 5.3 4.5
SF Pippen 18 7.7 6.3 ---------------------SF Odom 15 9.3 5.5
PF Grant 13 9.5 2.6 -----------------------PF Brown 7.3 6.5 1
C Cartwright 5.6 3.7 1.3 -------------------C Mihm 10.4 6.4 1

no Kukoc, no Rodman, NBA title tho. are you telling me these teams are not comprable? you realize there is more than ONE bulls squad that won a title, it certainly wasnt the same team 6 times. harper, kukoc, rodman, kerr came later

[Diablo23]

Okay guys, enough arguing.. when it's all said and done.. we all know who will go down as the Greatest of all time..

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/sports/buck/img/feb05/ga205.jpg

:D

[GOSKINS_08]

Okay guys, enough arguing.. when it's all said and done.. we all know who will go down as the Greatest of all time..

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/sports/buck/img/feb05/ga205.jpg

:D

Excatly...Go Gilbert Arenas!

[Winslowalrob]

Gilbert Arenas will win league mvp someday. I truly believe that. He is not only good, he has a will to improve that is nearly unmatched. 35+, 5 boards, 7 assists a game is when he wins mvp.

[Mooka]

Did you even watch the Lakers dynastys? Kobe was the #1 option come the 4th QTR and consistently carried that team when Shaq was in trouble. The only season where Shaq was the real undisputed #1 option and they weren't equals was the first championship. Without Kobe, Shaq would still be ringless. Who won 3straight finals MVP's again?

[cpnasty]

Without Shaq, Kobe would definitely be ringless. Without Kobe, Shaq may or may not have been ringless depending on who else they brought in. It wasn't until after Kobe became the #1 guy that the Lakers stopped winning championships (like the season that Shaq was out for a while and the Lakers had a losing record, only to make the playoffs after Shaq returned... and the season where Gary Payton and Karl Malone were on the team, Kobe was the #1 guy again).

There's a difference between being clutch and being the foundation of the team. Robert Horry is incredibly clutch, but would you build your team around him?

Now, of course I'm not saying Kobe is a Robert Horry, but this just illustrates the difference between taking over in the 4th quarter vs. being the primary breadmaker of the team. For a football analogy, without Ryp's accurate ball the Skins may not have won a championship in '92, but where would he have been without that offensive line that probably ranks among the best of all time?
sorry but kobe is not clutch, i believed he was clutch for a long time untill i read this on ESPN.com
FIRST ROUND FODDER

16. L.A. Lakers
Interesting work from 82games.com (http://www.82games.com/random12.htm) last month, which kept track of everyone's stats in game-winning situations (24 seconds or less: tie game, down by one, down by two) for the past two-plus seasons. Carmelo had the best numbers -- 11-for-17, and that was before he made two more game-winners in the past three weeks. One of the worst guys? Kobe Bryant ... 7-for-32. You read that correctly.

(You know what that means, right? I can dump him from my 2008 Dream Team because it turns out that he ISN'T that clutch! Good times!)

[Gamebreaker]

LMAO. Are you serious? The Bulls title teams would WIPE the floor with the current Lakers squad. Odom can not hold Pippen's jock dude. They had a HOF PF in Dennis Rodman, six man of the year in Tony Kukoc, and excellent veteran role players like Steve Kerr and etc. Sorry, but I can't really take you seriously if you're trying to propogate that Jordan won with a team similiar in talent as the current Lakers squad. There's a reason those Bulls dynasties are considered some of the best ever.

You fail to realize Jordan made all of those that good. What did any of them do once they dismantled the Bulls? Nothing. Even Pippen was a huge disappointment. Jordan made them better than what they really were. Steve Kerr was nothing but a short white guy with a nice jump shot, Toni Kukoc was/is slow as molasses, Rodman was a horrible offensive player. Jordan put all of those players in position to showcase their strengths and make sure their weaknesses never hurt the team. Well, more Phil than MJ. But MJ kept his teammates involved, he made sure they got going. Can't say the same for Kobe.

[Gamebreaker]

You really typed a whole bunch of nothing. So am I to take it that anytime Kobe's teammates do well it's always inspite of Kobe no matter what? using that tactic of debate you're right, Kobe will never make his teammates better because its never to his credit when they do well. Are you seriously going to try to imply that if you took Kobe off the Lakers his teammates would do just as well? Because if Kobe isn't making anyone on that team better then there shouldn't be ANY individual drop off in performance if you take Kobe off the team.

I countered your statement with facts, now you're saying something else. You said their FG% are higher now, the only applies to some of them and obviously, if you're taking substantially smaller amount of shots this will happen. That doesn't mean he's setting his teammates up better than they've previously been set up, it doesn't mean he's raised their level of play, it just means he's shooting the ball all the damn time. :laugh:

If you take any leading scorer off the a team, of course it changes everyone's stats because now someone has to step up and try to fill in those points. This applies to ANY team in basketball. Now THAT statement is a whole bunch of nothing.

[Rocky21]

Kobe's game compares to Jordan's, but Kobe will never go down as the best of all-time because he won't have the impact off the court that Jordan did.

Jordan was the most well known athlete WORLDWIDE, hell even now he is still easily the most well known and popular.

Jordan helped revolutionize the NBA and took its popularity to a whole new level.

Kobe may put up the numbers, but Jordan is and always will be the best of all-time.
Between McDonalds, Hanes, Oakley, Sprint, Gatorade, Nike, etc. there is no question Michael Jordan is the most prolific advertising pitchman of all times.

I thought we were talking about best basketball player of all times?