Eddie Jordan must go.

[fixer26er]

It's a shame because I like him, but he is a terrible coach. I know, I know, the Wiz are 13-9 and having their best season in years.

Yeah, the Wizards can score points and we can thank Eddie for that, but there are too many things that he does wrong. He lets the guards get away without playing good D as long as they come up with a couple of steals per game. He continually plays Ruffin and Hayes in crunch time, when they both flat out suck. He refuses to call plays to dump the ball into the low post. He allows the "Big 3" to chuck up as many shots as they want even when they aren't hitting them. He calls plays for Jamison in crunch time when Jamison has proven that he isn't a go-to guy. He refuses to play Wood and Kwame together for an extended period of time. The list goes on and on.

Unfortunately, he isn't going anywhere. I am sure if it was strictly Ernie's call he'd be gone. There were rumors swirling last year that Ernie almost fired him, but Abe said no. Now, with the team winning for the first time in ages, Abe will get rid of Ernie before he lets Eddie go and it's too bad. I am afraid this team will never reach it's full potential with EJ in charge.

Maybe I am overreacting or being too critical of EJ, but thats the way I feel and I don't think he'll change his ways to make me think any differently.

[jbooma]

Originally posted by fixer26er


Maybe I am overreacting or being too critical of EJ, but thats the way I feel and I don't think he'll change his ways to make me think any differently.

Yes :doh: he is the first coach that has WON here, that in itself is miracle :)

baby steps :cheers:

[Gamebreaker]

I don't agree at all.

It isn't Eddie's fault the players aren't taking defense seriously. EJ and the coaching staff made the point to hammer home how important defense is to this team all through training camp and preseason. There is only so much a coach can do. He can't go out there and play defense for them.

I don't see how Ruffin and Hayes suck. Their role players, not full-time starters, and they play their roles very well. Kwame and Brendan haven't seen the floor much together yet because Kwame still in enough shape to play alot of minutes yet.

I just feel your analysis is very premature, especially for a team that hasn't been at full strength all year and has still enjoyed the success it has.

[a_good_brotha]

I have to disagree. First of all never mind the record. Since EJ took over as head coach, the Wizards actually look like a professional basketball team. That is a big improvement over what I have seen over the years.

[Renegade7]

You deserve to get fixed for that one fixer. We haven't been this hot in decades, and you want to get rid of the guy? :doh:

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Originally posted by fixer26er
It's a shame because I like him, but he is a terrible coach. I know, I know, the Wiz are 13-9 and having their best season in years.

Yeah, the Wizards can score points and we can thank Eddie for that, but there are too many things that he does wrong. He lets the guards get away without playing good D as long as they come up with a couple of steals per game. He continually plays Ruffin and Hayes in crunch time, when they both flat out suck. He refuses to call plays to dump the ball into the low post. He allows the "Big 3" to chuck up as many shots as they want even when they aren't hitting them. He calls plays for Jamison in crunch time when Jamison has proven that he isn't a go-to guy. He refuses to play Wood and Kwame together for an extended period of time. The list goes on and on.

Unfortunately, he isn't going anywhere. I am sure if it was strictly Ernie's call he'd be gone. There were rumors swirling last year that Ernie almost fired him, but Abe said no. Now, with the team winning for the first time in ages, Abe will get rid of Ernie before he lets Eddie go and it's too bad. I am afraid this team will never reach it's full potential with EJ in charge.

Maybe I am overreacting or being too critical of EJ, but thats the way I feel and I don't think he'll change his ways to make me think any differently.
Fixer..every single thing you've said was correct.

[wiggyman77]

i blame pollin / front office for all of there faults... but lets be positive , we are winning we are very much improved... we have the talent and have made a huge step in the right direction this year

[fixer26er]

I was going to respond to some of these posts, but all of my thoughts are summed up in this thread on another board, not trying to spam. Just a bunch of diehard Bullets\Wiz fans and their opinions of Eddie Jordan.

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=179404

Look at the last few pages, I think starting at 10 or so. I agree with a few of the postives and all of the negatives.

[hands11]

Originally posted by fixer26er
It's a shame because I like him, but he is a terrible coach. I know, I know, the Wiz are 13-9 and having their best season in years.

Yeah, the Wizards can score points and we can thank Eddie for that, but there are too many things that he does wrong. He lets the guards get away without playing good D as long as they come up with a couple of steals per game. He continually plays Ruffin and Hayes in crunch time, when they both flat out suck. He refuses to call plays to dump the ball into the low post. He allows the "Big 3" to chuck up as many shots as they want even when they aren't hitting them. He calls plays for Jamison in crunch time when Jamison has proven that he isn't a go-to guy. He refuses to play Wood and Kwame together for an extended period of time. The list goes on and on.

Unfortunately, he isn't going anywhere. I am sure if it was strictly Ernie's call he'd be gone. There were rumors swirling last year that Ernie almost fired him, but Abe said no. Now, with the team winning for the first time in ages, Abe will get rid of Ernie before he lets Eddie go and it's too bad. I am afraid this team will never reach it's full potential with EJ in charge.

Maybe I am overreacting or being too critical of EJ, but thats the way I feel and I don't think he'll change his ways to make me think any differently.

I understand what your saying. I was frustrated by Eddie last year. Not playing people like Simmons more, or Blake earlier. Im not sure he is calling those plays for Jamison. It may be coming from the offense they run and Jamison taking it upon himself, which I wish he wouldnt force so much. As for feeding the post, give it time. Kwame has just come back and they are working him in. As for Kwame and Haywood, I have been calling for this and they did it for a spell last game. Again, give it time. Eddie isnt perfect. He is doing a good job. He has also come through the mess of last season so this is his first season with a clean slate. He is a 2nd year head coach. He needs time to grow into the job also. Hes smart, the player like him and he has a young team with growing changing talent, and he doesnt even have all the pieces yet. We may want to hold back the harsh judgement till after he get Etan back for 15 games. This would be hopefully by the end of Jan. We are playing much improved ball and winning. He deserves our support.

[Bugs']

I really disagree that EJ is a bad coach. He has a complicated offense that the players had problems adjusting to last year and they have picked it up well this year. EJ preaches defense and gets on players for their poor defensive play but again, he can not play it for them....once the players start to enjoy playing defense and taking pride in it like they do their scoring numbers this team will vastly improve. It takes awhile to change peoples beliefs and habits, if ever.

[fixer26er]

Originally posted by hands11
He is a 2nd year head coach.

Thats not true. He coached in Sacramento for a year and a half and he was a failure there.

[Bugs']

Originally posted by fixer26er


Thats not true. He coached in Sacramento for a year and a half and he was a failure there.

Well, he is a second year coach here....and I would hate to see how you would feel if we weren't doing so well! :doh:

[fixer26er]

Originally posted by Bugs'
I really disagree that EJ is a bad coach. He has a complicated offense that the players had problems adjusting to last year and they have picked it up well this year.

I would think a good coach would have come out of that stupid zone D when he realized that Phoenix was shooting lights out. Did he? No. I understand it was Phoenix, the best team in the league so far this year, but you have got to give your team a chance to win.

They don't even run his offense here. He runs the "Princeton" offense. You want to see the "Princeton" offense run, watch Sacramento. All the Wizards do is run a three-man weave at the top of the three point arc and it usually ends up with Arenas, Hughes or Jamison going one on one.

[Bugs']

Originally posted by fixer26er


I would think a good coach would have come out of that stupid zone D when he realized that Phoenix was shooting lights out. Did he? No. I understand it was Phoenix, the best team in the league so far this year, but you have got to give your team a chance to win.

They don't even run his offense here. He runs the "Princeton" offense. You want to see the "Princeton" offense run, watch Sacramento. All the Wizards do is run a three-man weave at the top of the three point arc and it usually ends up with Arenas, Hughes or Jamison going one on one.

The Zards have really improved on how they run the Princeton offense compared to last year and Sacramento has been going at it a bit longer than us....we are one of the highest scoring teams in the league right now:rolleyes:

Not many teams have stopped Phoenix this year and I think he did give us a good chance to win....in previous years we would of been down by 30 at half....:shutup:

[smashmowf]

Originally posted by fixer26er
It's a shame because I like him, but he is a terrible coach. I know, I know, the Wiz are 13-9 and having their best season in years.

Yeah, the Wizards can score points and we can thank Eddie for that, but there are too many things that he does wrong. He lets the guards get away without playing good D as long as they come up with a couple of steals per game. He continually plays Ruffin and Hayes in crunch time, when they both flat out suck. He refuses to call plays to dump the ball into the low post. He allows the "Big 3" to chuck up as many shots as they want even when they aren't hitting them. He calls plays for Jamison in crunch time when Jamison has proven that he isn't a go-to guy. He refuses to play Wood and Kwame together for an extended period of time. The list goes on and on.

Unfortunately, he isn't going anywhere. I am sure if it was strictly Ernie's call he'd be gone. There were rumors swirling last year that Ernie almost fired him, but Abe said no. Now, with the team winning for the first time in ages, Abe will get rid of Ernie before he lets Eddie go and it's too bad. I am afraid this team will never reach it's full potential with EJ in charge.

Maybe I am overreacting or being too critical of EJ, but thats the way I feel and I don't think he'll change his ways to make me think any differently.


Wow....Unbelievable.....:mad:

[Funkyalligator]

Jeez....fixer26er...you certainly seem to be negative in your posts about the wizards....I've been a fan for many years and this is the best they have been playing in a very long time.....Eddie Jordan is an excellent coach and Ernie Grunfeld is an excellent GM...together they make a great team and have improved ours imeasurably.....I'm really not sure why you are complaining about Kwame and Haywood spending time on the floor together....Kwame is still getting back in game shape and is learning how to play defense as a big man without picking up a ton fouls as he has been doing......I've watched every game this year so I know this team very well and Jordan is doing an excellent job coaching them.....there is no way in hell that Eddie Jordan should be fired and anyone that says so is on crack!!!!

[fixer26er]

This team is winning solely on talent right now. When the Wizards play a team with less talent they win. When the talent level is equal or the Wizards are at a disadvantage they lose. Plain and simple. I have seen him coach one good game in the time that he has been here and thats the Memphis game.

As I stated in my initial post I like Eddie Jordan. I like the fact that he wants to be here and that he is from the area. He also does some things well. Eddie is a great teacher and good with the players. I will give him that, but it's his coaching decisions that I have a problem with. If you are only doing two-thirds of your job, are you really getting the job done?

Barring any serious injuries or a major catastropy, I expect this team to be in the playoffs. They'll make it based on talent.

I'll give Eddie Jordan the rest of this year to prove me wrong and I hope that he does. This team has the talent to make noise in the playoffs this year and beyond. I want to see them reach their full potential. I just want to see them get to that point, but in order for that to happen Eddie needs to make some changes in his coaching style.

There's a reason Ernie Grunfeld tried to hire Terry Stotts as an assistant coach this past offseason. I don't think he's sold on EJ yet either.

[Bugs']

:puke:

[fixer26er]

Originally posted by Funkyalligator
Jeez....fixer26er...you certainly seem to be negative in your posts about the wizards....I've been a fan for many years and this is the best they have been playing in a very long time.....Eddie Jordan is an excellent coach and Ernie Grunfeld is an excellent GM...together they make a great team and have improved ours imeasurably.....I'm really not sure why you are complaining about Kwame and Haywood spending time on the floor together....Kwame is still getting back in game shape and is learning how to play defense as a big man without picking up a ton fouls as he has been doing......I've watched every game this year so I know this team very well and Jordan is doing an excellent job coaching them.....there is no way in hell that Eddie Jordan should be fired and anyone that says so is on crack!!!!

I am not negative in my posts about the Wizards, I think they have a very talented team.

I've watched every game that has been televised this year and last year and a majority of their games over the past twenty years, minus my college years. I know them very well too.

When Kwame and Wood were on the floor together against Phoenix they went on a 7-0 run. I know Ruffin played most of the 4th quarter, when Phoenix was grabbing every offensive rebound and ended up with ZERO defensive rebounds. Isn't that the reason he's supposed to be playing? When this team needed defensive stops in the fourth who did he have in? Jarvis Hayes, who is probably the worst defensive player on this team. Let me guess, he was in for offense? Well he is shooting 38% from the field for the season. It's moves like these that I find unacceptable.

I understand that Marion was a tough matchup for Kwame, but it isn't like Jamison was doing any better. I also understand that Kwame isn't quite there yet, so I don't have a problem with him not playing the whole fourth quarter. What I do have a problem with is Wood not being on the floor in the fourth when he has proven that he can make plays that matter when this team needs them.

As I said before, I'll give him this year, but he has to show me something. It's our talent level that is winning these games, not Eddie Jordan.

I guess we'll see after this season if EG agrees with some of the points that I have made and then we'll know if he hitting the pipe too. As I said before theres a reason EG wanted to bring Terry Stotts on board.

[hands11]

Originally posted by fixer26er


Thats not true. He coached in Sacramento for a year and a half and he was a failure there.

I was talking here. How many years ago was the Sac thing ?

1996-97
Brian Grant went under the knife to repair a torn rotator cuff only a week into the season.

His injury, and a tough early-season schedule, mired the Kings in an 8-17 start. They improved to 28-32, and seemed headed for their second straight playoff performance when the wheels fell off. The Kings dropped the next seven contests (including home losses to Cleveland, Toronto and Dallas), prompting Kings Vice President of Basketball Operations Geoff Petrie to fire Garry St. Jean, who had coached the Kings for the past four-plus seasons. The Kings posted a subpar 28-39 record under St. Jean, and finished the season only 6-9 under Jordan.


1997-98
Despite their youth, the Kings, when focused, were up to the challenge of playing with the NBA's best. Their first win of the season was against a surprised New York Knicks team that was shut down in an 86-78 Kings' win. The Kings twice downed the powerful Utah Jazz and dominated Seattle in a 111-92 win on Jan. 26.

With some fine-tuning and a summer of hard work for the young core of players, the Kings hope to take a few more teams by surprise in 1998-99.

___ Sounds like Eddies first head coaching job was for another organization that was in transition with an old Star and lots of young players who showed progress under him. Him being fired from Sac sounds like the same thing he had here if he would have come in for a few games at the end of MJs being here, then coached last year, and then we let him go before this year._______

I don't think you can count what he did in SAC as a failure. It doesnt sound like he had enough time there to prove what he could do.

Now what we know since then is what he did in NJ and what it looks like he is doing here. You have to let him coach here for at least this year and next before you can really judge him. Thats 3 years. That sound a little more fair.

Hey, even Joe Gibbs isnt perfect. Look how the Skins started.

[hands11]

Originally posted by fixer26er
I was going to respond to some of these posts, but all of my thoughts are summed up in this thread on another board, not trying to spam. Just a bunch of diehard Bullets\Wiz fans and their opinions of Eddie Jordan.

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=179404

Look at the last few pages, I think starting at 10 or so. I agree with a few of the postives and all of the negatives.

Yeah, well, his mistakes has been well documented here also.

http://extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49902

http://extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49250

He seems to have learned from his mistakes last year. On the Wiz Magizine he was talking about being careful to mixing Kwame, Etan and Blake into the line up as to not ruin the chemistry they have. He will do this more slowly this year.
I even saw him put Kwame and Haywood on the floor for about 6 minutes last game. He will probably need this line up for Minn.

At the start of the Pheonix game, they feed the ball inside the first 4-5 plays. I think Jordan has grown as has the team. He deserves more time.

[js79]

can u just give him half a season b4 u ask him to be fired? just ENJOY the potential for a .500 season, how long has it been? sheesh

[hands11]

Originally posted by fixer26er
This team is winning solely on talent right now. When the Wizards play a team with less talent they win. When the talent level is equal or the Wizards are at a disadvantage they lose. Plain and simple. I have seen him coach one good game in the time that he has been here and thats the Memphis game.

As I stated in my initial post I like Eddie Jordan. I like the fact that he wants to be here and that he is from the area. He also does some things well. Eddie is a great teacher and good with the players. I will give him that, but it's his coaching decisions that I have a problem with. If you are only doing two-thirds of your job, are you really getting the job done?

Barring any serious injuries or a major catastropy, I expect this team to be in the playoffs. They'll make it based on talent.

I'll give Eddie Jordan the rest of this year to prove me wrong and I hope that he does. This team has the talent to make noise in the playoffs this year and beyond. I want to see them reach their full potential. I just want to see them get to that point, but in order for that to happen Eddie needs to make some changes in his coaching style.

There's a reason Ernie Grunfeld tried to hire Terry Stotts as an assistant coach this past offseason. I don't think he's sold on EJ yet either.

I hear what your saying. He does have some improving to do, but I think he will get there. He is doing much better then last year. Ya, some of it may be winning with talent over coaching but we wouldnt be the first team to do that. I think most the teams in the NBA are winning with talent over coaching.

[hands11]

Originally posted by fixer26er


I am not negative in my posts about the Wizards, I think they have a very talented team.

I've watched every game that has been televised this year and last year and a majority of their games over the past twenty years, minus my college years. I know them very well too.

When Kwame and Wood were on the floor together against Phoenix they went on a 7-0 run. I know Ruffin played most of the 4th quarter, when Phoenix was grabbing every offensive rebound and ended up with ZERO defensive rebounds. Isn't that the reason he's supposed to be playing? When this team needed defensive stops in the fourth who did he have in? Jarvis Hayes, who is probably the worst defensive player on this team. Let me guess, he was in for offense? Well he is shooting 38% from the field for the season. It's moves like these that I find unacceptable.

I understand that Marion was a tough matchup for Kwame, but it isn't like Jamison was doing any better. I also understand that Kwame isn't quite there yet, so I don't have a problem with him not playing the whole fourth quarter. What I do have a problem with is Wood not being on the floor in the fourth when he has proven that he can make plays that matter when this team needs them.

As I said before, I'll give him this year, but he has to show me something. It's our talent level that is winning these games, not Eddie Jordan.

I guess we'll see after this season if EG agrees with some of the points that I have made and then we'll know if he hitting the pipe too. As I said before theres a reason EG wanted to bring Terry Stotts on board.

Valid points. You sound like me last year. I guess some of this is harder to see since they are winning and the bigs ( Etan and Kwame were hurt ) Some of that slipped by me when I was watching that game. I 2 am not overly impressed with Hayes yet. I wish we had Simmons here still. Hayes is not as tough as Simmons was.

[hands11]

Looks like plenty of amo for you tonight against GS. They have no offensive sets that work, we are only scoring on individual talent. Hughes is so hot shooting and Gil is amazing also.

Jamison seems to play better when we are running an offense. He doesnt do well when one on one like Hughes and Gil.

Actually, no one else on the team can score without an offensive sceem except Gil and Hughes. Well Dixon can but I mean the starters.

We are winning, but this looks really bad.

[jbooma]

fixer how long have you been a wiz fan?? Jordan has brought us hope and our first winning record in december in who knows how long (not including MJ)

he makes it great to go see a game again, we are not supposed to be that great this year, we are just ahead of schedule :cheers:

[laurent]

fixer26, I'm with you a 100% percent.

[hands11]

Originally posted by jbooma
fixer how long have you been a wiz fan?? Jordan has brought us hope and our first winning record in december in who knows how long (not including MJ)

he makes it great to go see a game again, we are not supposed to be that great this year, we are just ahead of schedule :cheers:

I think his point is simply, is it Jordan or our GM keeping these guys together, adding Jamison, removing Stackhouse and Gil and Hughes getting better and playing better together ?

[jbooma]

Originally posted by hands11


I think his point is simply, is it Jordan or our GM keeping these guys together, adding Jamison, removing Stackhouse and Gil and Hughes getting better and playing better together ?

It is jordan, remember a couple of years ago we couldn't shoot threes, now we are one of the best teams

The GM has done a great job, but Jordan has developed the young players very well.

Remember we were hoping for a .500 season this year, we might get close to 50 wins now :cheers:

[fixer26er]

Originally posted by js79
can u just give him half a season b4 u ask him to be fired? just ENJOY the potential for a .500 season, how long has it been? sheesh

He's had a season and a quarter and he still makes the same mistakes. I said after this season. That would be two seasons.

Thats the problem, this team is better than .500.

[fixer26er]

Originally posted by hands11
Looks like plenty of amo for you tonight against GS. They have no offensive sets that work, we are only scoring on individual talent. Hughes is so hot shooting and Gil is amazing also.

Jamison seems to play better when we are running an offense. He doesnt do well when one on one like Hughes and Gil.

Actually, no one else on the team can score without an offensive sceem except Gil and Hughes. Well Dixon can but I mean the starters.

We are winning, but this looks really bad.

Ruffin and Hayes in for a majority of the 4th and the Warriors come storming back. That's the boneheaded coaching decisions that I am talking about.

[fixer26er]

Originally posted by jbooma
fixer how long have you been a wiz fan?? Jordan has brought us hope and our first winning record in december in who knows how long (not including MJ)

he makes it great to go see a game again, we are not supposed to be that great this year, we are just ahead of schedule :cheers:

The Jeff Malone, Jeff Ruland, Moses Malone era.

The players make it great to see a game this year.

[fixer26er]

Originally posted by hands11


I think his point is simply, is it Jordan or our GM keeping these guys together, adding Jamison, removing Stackhouse and Gil and Hughes getting better and playing better together ?

I give EG alot more credit then I give Eddie.

[Destino]

I'm sorry but sometimes people post things that are flat out laughable. Eddie is the first coach that's gotten the wizards to play well enough to beat some teams and we should fire him. For who? Who the hell do you think wants to coach here?

If I were a coach and you offered me a job after firing a guy for not winning well enough I'd laugh at you.

Let the team grow and stop demanding the team play like a playoff team, because in case you haven't noticed they haven't been that for a long time. Any improvement is crucial because before you become great you have to believe you can win. This team is starting to show some fight, and firing the coach would set the wizards back 4 years.

[fixer26er]

Originally posted by Destino
I'm sorry but sometimes people post things that are flat out laughable. Eddie is the first coach that's gotten the wizards to play well enough to beat some teams and we should fire him. For who? Who the hell do you think wants to coach here?

So if you're a GM and your coach is someone you DIDN'T hire and you don't think he can coach his way out of a paperbag, you keep him?

I guess you haven't read all of my posts. This team is winning games because they have more talent than most of the teams they've played. They are winning because Ernie went out and got Arenas, Jamison, Peeler, Ruffin(who I like, but not in the 4th). He obviously knows talent.

They don't even run Eddie's "System" half of the time and his defensive calls are terrible. So how is he a good coach? Give me one example? Do you think he drew up that Arenas play to win the game in the timeout last night? No. Arenas was taking that shot because he knew he was the best player on the court.

If you think coaches wouldn't be lining up to coach this team then you are crazy. And I am sure Ernie knows enough coaches who would be willing to come in here and work for him.

As I said before and I'll obviously have to say it again, I like Eddie. I think he is a good teacher and he treats the players fair. I just don't think he is a good coach. The players have come a long way. I think they are ready and I think they need a real coach. I said that I would give him this year and that I hoped I was wrong, but I don't think I will be. This team is better than a .500 team.

[thito_da_skins_fan]

Interesting discussion.

Valid points on both sides, but I'm keeping EJ.

You can have all the talent in the world, but unless you have someone to lead and direct them, the team is worthless.

I would also agree he's an inexperienced coach. I refuse to judge him based on what happened in Sacramento and I'd prefer to give him a few more years here. Unless, out of nowhere, the Wizards go into a deep landslide and it's safe to put 100% of the blame on EJ. Which I don't see happening.

If it ain't broke, I'm not fixing it.

[Destino]

Originally posted by fixer26er


So if you're a GM and your coach is someone you DIDN'T hire and you don't think he can coach his way out of a paperbag, you keep him?

I guess you haven't read all of my posts. This team is winning games because they have more talent than most of the teams they've played. They are winning because Ernie went out and got Arenas, Jamison, Peeler, Ruffin(who I like, but not in the 4th). He obviously knows talent.


Ah I see, the team is now winning becasue of superior talent. But all the years that have passed with players that go on to be great .....yeah we didn't win those years because of talent. That decade of underachieving was what? A fluke?

This team has had talent several times but hasn't won. The main players on this team have been together before and haven't won. The difference is that this coach has found a way to make them win. Like his coaching or not your argument is absurd.

And yes if I was a GM I would keep a coach I didn't hire because result matter so much more then my thoughts on what it takes to be a good coach. Fact is, like it or not, this coach is the first that has found a way to win, but not the first coach that was handed a talented roster. Knowing the history of this team you'd be a damn fool to risk success on a thought that you could do better at head coach.

[Bugs']

This thread is officially bricked...everyone agrees that EJ should stay except for Fixer26er, and he is entitled to his opinion and we aren't going to change it so let's move on....

[fixer26er]

Originally posted by Destino


Ah I see, the team is now winning becasue of superior talent. But all the years that have passed with players that go on to be great .....yeah we didn't win those years because of talent. That decade of underachieving was what? A fluke?

This team has had talent several times but hasn't won. The main players on this team have been together before and haven't won. The difference is that this coach has found a way to make them win. Like his coaching or not your argument is absurd.

And yes if I was a GM I would keep a coach I didn't hire because result matter so much more then my thoughts on what it takes to be a good coach. Fact is, like it or not, this coach is the first that has found a way to win, but not the first coach that was handed a talented roster. Knowing the history of this team you'd be a damn fool to risk success on a thought that you could do better at head coach.

When has this team had talent that was producing? The Webber years? Our three best players all played power forward on that team. This team has NBA ready talent on it right now. We don't have to wait.

I give Eddie credit for instilling a winning attitude and allowing the players to mature. I was willing to look past his shortcomings last year as a coach. I figured that he would see the error of his ways and change the way he approached coaching, but he hasn't. It's the same things over and over. The problem I have with him is his coaching. I don't think that he is a good NBA coach. That's all I am saying. I think he's a great assistant coach, but not a good head coach. Kind of like Norv Turner.

Doug Collins was five games over .500 a few years ago, should we have kept him? No. Did it take Larry Brown a few years in Detroit? No. The NBA is different. You can be a .500 team if you have talent. A good coach can take you to the next level. I am not saying championship level yet, but I know this team has the talent to be better than a .500 ball club with better coaching.

I don't know why I have to keep saying this, but I like Eddie and I want him to succeed. I HOPE HE PROVES ME WRONG. I am sure he'll have the rest of this year to figure out what he needs to improve upon and once again hopefully he does. At this point though he is a lousy coach.

[fixer26er]

Originally posted by Bugs'
This thread is officially bricked...everyone agrees that EJ should stay except for Fixer26er, and he is entitled to his opinion and we aren't going to change it so let's move on....

Actually I think a few people agreed with me, but it doesn't really matter.

You're right we are all entitled to our own opinions. Let's revisit this thread at the all-star break. As I said, hopefully I am wrong. If thats the case I like my crow served up warm. :D

[pkrr18]

I don't know if I completely agree with you Fixer. I like Eddie. But his substitution pattern drives me nuts. His fascination with Ruffin (especially in the 4th quarter) also drives me nuts. He has zero confidence in Haywood. Like you, I would like to see Haywood and Kwame play together. So, I hear where your coming from.

[Destino]

Originally posted by fixer26er
When has this team had talent that was producing?
That's exactly my point.

[fixer26er]

Originally posted by Destino

That's exactly my point.

You're missing mine, but thats okay. It doesn't seem like I can change your point of view or vice versa. We'll just agree to disagree.

[mhd24]

Until Eddie Jordan figures out a coherent rotation, this team can't improve. Grunfeld is the brains of the Wizards, not Jordan. Eddie is dumb enough to want to move Arenas to SG and ship out Hughes. Luckily, Grunfeld is a proffessional GM who WANTS Arenas as the pg for this team. Grunfeld also made overtures for Stotts to come aboard as possibly an assistant (i.e future coach). Grunfeld and Jordan don't see eye-to-eye sometimes. In the end, Grunfled will (and should) win over Jordan. Eddie's substitutions patterns are horrific and unacceptable for a coach on this level. It makes NO SENSE for Haywood (who is 12th in the nba in +- ratio) to be sitting on the bench in the fourth quarter. It makes no sense for Kwame not be gettign at least 25 minutes a game when Ruffin: 1) can't shoot Ft's, 2) Fouls on every defensive trip, 3) is a terrible defensive rebounder.

[hands11]

Originally posted by Destino
I'm sorry but sometimes people post things that are flat out laughable. Eddie is the first coach that's gotten the wizards to play well enough to beat some teams and we should fire him. For who? Who the hell do you think wants to coach here?

If I were a coach and you offered me a job after firing a guy for not winning well enough I'd laugh at you.

Let the team grow and stop demanding the team play like a playoff team, because in case you haven't noticed they haven't been that for a long time. Any improvement is crucial because before you become great you have to believe you can win. This team is starting to show some fight, and firing the coach would set the wizards back 4 years.

I dont think anyone is saying fire him now, we are just evaluating him as a game time coach vs a teacher. We are questioning his rotation and not giving him all the credit for the wins becuase a lot of credit goes to the individual players just being very athletic and making it happen themselves and to our GM who kept this group together, got ride of Stackhouse and added Jamison.

This is what we do on a board. We evaluate, give credit and point out weakness. Jordan should be the coach for the whole season. I don't believe anyone critizing him would say otherwise. That being said, we are pointing out things he could do better.

Trust me, our GM could find plenty of coaches that would want to come here now, this isnt the same situation it had been for 20 years. Wes is gone, we have talent, our financial house is in order, we have a great GM and this is a nice place to move to.

Jordan has this years and maybe next to prove what he can do before Ernie would move him.

[hands11]

Originally posted by Destino


Ah I see, the team is now winning becasue of superior talent. But all the years that have passed with players that go on to be great .....yeah we didn't win those years because of talent. That decade of underachieving was what? A fluke?

This team has had talent several times but hasn't won. The main players on this team have been together before and haven't won. The difference is that this coach has found a way to make them win. Like his coaching or not your argument is absurd.

And yes if I was a GM I would keep a coach I didn't hire because result matter so much more then my thoughts on what it takes to be a good coach. Fact is, like it or not, this coach is the first that has found a way to win, but not the first coach that was handed a talented roster. Knowing the history of this team you'd be a damn fool to risk success on a thought that you could do better at head coach.

Your evaluation is foolish. Yes we have had some talented players in the past but they never kept them together year to year and unijured long enough to see them perform. We kept looking for the quick fix. This is the first year since I can remember that we kept players who looked like they could become something instead of trading for players we thought would help us hit a home run. Our GM is building this team. That is what has been missing.


What do you mean the main players have been together before and havent won. Are you talking about Gil, Hughes, and Jamison being together 3 years ago. They arent the same players today. They are in a different organization. That is a stupid comparison. It doenst mean anything.

Stability and talent is what wins. Jordan isnt going anywhere for now but his is still auditioning and I think he knows that.

[jbooma]

Originally posted by hands11



Stability and talent is what wins. Jordan isnt going anywhere for now but his is still auditioning and I think he knows that.

No Players is what wins, look at Miami, the have Shaq and missing about 3 of their starts from last year and are even better.

Lets face we are playing better then expected right now. We had most of these players last year and we couldn't win. The reason we are winning is Jamison brings a leader we didn't have and another season with Jordan has helped. Right now we are playing better then we thought. We are beating the teams we should be beating and that is the sign of good coaching as well.

[mhd24]

We didn't win last year because Arenas, Hughes, and Stackhouse missed so many games. If they were all healthy last year, I would have garunteed you that the Wizards would have made the playoffs. Until Eddie Jordan recognizes the importance of a big man, this team will not improve. It is inexcusable and horrible coaching to have Ruffin instead of Haywood in the fourth quarter. Haywood gives the just as many offensive rebounds as Ruffin does, but Haywood can actually: 1) Defend, 2) play a coherent version of something called offense, and 3) defensive rebound. Does EJ understand the importance of a big man? Haywood was freakin 5-5, 11 points last night, yet he couldn't get any pine down the stretch.

[fixer26er]

Originally posted by jbooma


No Players is what wins, look at Miami, the have Shaq and missing about 3 of their starts from last year and are even better.

Lets face we are playing better then expected right now. We had most of these players last year and we couldn't win. The reason we are winning is Jamison brings a leader we didn't have and another season with Jordan has helped. Right now we are playing better then we thought. We are beating the teams we should be beating and that is the sign of good coaching as well.

I think he meant players when he said talent, but I guess you'd have to ask Hands that.

I agree that Jamison makes us a better team. He brings the one attribute this team needed: consistancy. He's great in the locker room and a good role model and leader for the younger players, but I would have to say that Arenas and Hughes are the reason that we are winning now. Not that Jamison doesn't have a hand in it. It seems like he gets us to the second half or the fourth quarter, but then usually one of those two or both take over and win the game.

That being said, I still find it amazing that EG was able to unload damaged goods and a pick in a weak draft and get back such quality player. He's the man.

[fixer26er]

Originally posted by mhd24
We didn't win last year because Arenas, Hughes, and Stackhouse missed so many games. If they were all healthy last year, I would have garunteed you that the Wizards would have made the playoffs.

They would have.

Until Eddie Jordan recognizes the importance of a big man, this team will not improve. It is inexcusable and horrible coaching to have Ruffin instead of Haywood in the fourth quarter.

You know I am with you there. It's not going to get any better for Wood once Etan comes back. Hell, he'll be lucky if EJ plays him at all then.

[hands11]

Originally posted by fixer26er


I think he meant players when he said talent, but I guess you'd have to ask Hands that.

I agree that Jamison makes us a better team. He brings the one attribute this team needed: consistancy. He's great in the locker room and a good role model and leader for the younger players, but I would have to say that Arenas and Hughes are the reason that we are winning now. Not that Jamison doesn't have a hand in it. It seems like he gets us to the second half or the fourth quarter, but then usually one of those two or both take over and win the game.

That being said, I still find it amazing that EG was able to unload damaged goods and a pick in a weak draft and get back such quality player. He's the man.

Fixer, you are nailing it. This is exactly as I see it. I did a post on this. This was Jamisons team at the start of the season. He is still the glue and a leader, but this is becoming Hughes and Gils team. They are the money men. I would almost guess this may have had something to do with Jamison starting to play outside his game they last few game ( not last game against SAC, he was great ). He started forcing shots. It may have been him getting carried away trying to copy what Hughes and Gil where doing. Hughes is not only drive but trying to dunk more now. Its not really Jamisons game. His game comes in the flow. Sliding after a nice pass. Spoting up or coming off a pick. Gil and Hughes can just stand at the point, watch the clock tick, then go one on one. This is not Jamisons game. The proff would be, I havent seen him at the top of the key waiting for the clock to tick down yet.

We have 2 players in Gil and Hughes that dont really even need an offensive system. They can just ball. Jamison plays in the flow and is a great player/scorer. We have the 3 amigos. Great teams have 4 or 5 scorer. Jefferies needs a system that gets him easy shots. So does Haywood, etc. This is why the team needs to play a specific offense that works for the others. If not, we need 4/5 players that can just ball to get to the next level. SAC has 5 shooters and they all played 40 mins each. Thats why they won. They can score even when they arent running a set offense.

[hands11]

Originally posted by fixer26er


They would have.



You know I am with you there. It's not going to get any better for Wood once Etan comes back. Hell, he'll be lucky if EJ plays him at all then.

True again. I think Etan will definately bench Ruffin.

Jordan has said he is trying to slowly transition the team to using the bigs more. He just doesnt want to ruin what they already have going. Once Etan is in shape and worked back in.

You will like to see a lot better mixing of players.


Haywood, Jefferies, Jamison, Hughes, Gil
Haywood, Etan, Jamison, Hughes, Gil
Kwame, Etan, Jamison, Hughes, Gil ( this may be our best line up by the end of the year)
Etan, Jefferies, Jamison, Hughes, Gil


Our bigs needs to take it to the next step. Kwame needs to really step is up over the next 15 games. He looks healthy. It doesnt look like he is going to re injure himself at this point.
He needs to start dunking again.

Jefferies is showing some nice flashes of being a great ball handler for his size. I would like to see him just make the leap and play is game. Drive, shoot, take some more 3's etc. Stop looking to alway pass it and be the last option. Hes only going to get better by doing it. I dont mind the mistakes as long as he make them with confidence. If he is off that night, pull it in a little. But he has to give himself a change to be hot. Hell Hayes takes plenty of shots and he doesnt make that many.

[Warhead36]

The Wizards are finally getting some stability and continuity and you want to kill that? You have got to be kidding me.

Eddie Jordan should be Coach of the Year. He's the reason we're doing so well. He implemented a system and his guys are playing great in it.

[mhd24]

Nah, Arenas, Hughes and Jamison are the reason why this team is playing well. Until Eddie Jordan realizes that Brendan Haywood is a top 10 center, this team won't be up to its true potential. It is mind boggling that Jordan hasn't realized what a good player Haywood is. He did the same thing last year. Haywood was like top 15 IN THE NBA in +- ratio last year. This year, Haywood is 12th in the nba. The Wizards markedly better defensively and offensively when Brendan is on the court.

To clarify on why Ruffin is so bad:

Ruffin has a -8.5 ratio. That is the 3rd worst on the team (Ramos and Blake don't count since they have played so little), Yet Eddie has stated that he's "earned his minutes"? Jarvis Hayes is currently the WORST player on the Wizards according to the +- ratio. The Wizards are -4.5 points with Hayes on the floor and +8.7 when he's off. Every loss this season can be attributed to the amount of points these two players have played.

It is really stupidity as to why Jordan loves to play Ruffin and Hayes, yet cringes at the tought of Haywood playing more than 25 minutes. The Wizards are +9.7 when Haywood is on the court and -7.9 when he's off the court.

[hands11]

Great post mhd24

Where are you pulling those numbers. If you can post the links that would be great.

For those of you frustrated by Jordan rotation, just wait till we get Etan and Blake back, then youll really get frustrated. Who will stay and who will go will also be interesting.

I see no need to keep Walker active, so hopefully he is the slot of Etan. Your going to have a ton of player and to few minutes for all of them.

Here are 13 names, we can only keep 12 active. I think Ruffin should sit, but I beat its Profit that goes.

Guards: Gil, Hughes, Blake, Hayes, Profit, Dixon, Peeler
F Jamison, Etan, Jefferies, Kwame, Ruffin
C Haywood, Kwame, Etan

Honestly, I dont see why we would need Peeler once we have all these players back and Hayes SHOULD almost see no playing time. He has done nothing (stats) to prove to me that he has earned minutes over Dixon and Profit ( both has more heart, energy, intangables on the court, and better shooting %'s )

Here are the possitions and the order in which I think players should get minutes at those possitions.

PG Gil, Blake, Dixon, Peeler
SG Hughes, Gil, Dixon, Profit, Hayes, Peeler
SF Jam, Jefferies, Hayes
PF Etan, Kwame, Jam, Jefferies
C Haywood, Kwame, Etan

If you have a 8 man rotation for most the minutes, everyone else is riding the bench or gets less then 10 min. but I know this wont happen. Jordan will give Hayes minutes, probably over Dixon which I dont agree with. Kwame will have to be better then Etan and Haywood to earn minutes. I can at least see why they are considering moving Kwame. He isnt worth the money if he cant beat these guys out. As it stands, I think both have better games then him. More consistant. More energy. Well see. We have the rest of the season to figure it out. Something is going to happen in the offseason I beat.

Gil, Hughes, Jam, Etan, Haywood, Blake, Jefferies and Kwame

[Bugs']

I agree, there are going to be some guys squeezed out of minutes once Etan and Blake get back and Kwame gets healthier....This is my ideal starting line-up:

PG Arenas
SG Hughes
SF Jamison
PF Brown
C Haywood

The top back-ups as I see them right now at each position once healthy:

PG Blake
SG Hayes
SF Jefferies
PF Thomas, Jefferies
C Thomas, Ramos

One point of defense on Ruffin that you don't see in the stats is that he leads the team in limited minutes played with charges taken....Once, we get our team healthy I don't see him being an important piece of the puzzle...here is my list of guys that will be scratching for minutes:

G Dixon, Peeler, Profit
F/C Walker, Ruffin, Ramos

[mhd24]

Originally posted by hands11
Great post mhd24

Where are you pulling those numbers. If you can post the links that would be great.

For those of you frustrated by Jordan rotation, just wait till we get Etan and Blake back, then youll really get frustrated. Who will stay and who will go will also be interesting.

I see no need to keep Walker active, so hopefully he is the slot of Etan. Your going to have a ton of player and to few minutes for all of them.

Here are 13 names, we can only keep 12 active. I think Ruffin should sit, but I bet if Profit that goes.

Guards: Gil, Hughes, Blake, Hayes, Profit, Dixon, Peeler
F Jamison, Etan, Jefferies, Kwame, Ruffin
C Haywood, Kwame, Etan

Honestly, I dont see why we would need Peeler once we have all these players back and Hayes should almost see no playing time.
Here are the possitions and the order in which I think players should get minutes at those possitions.

PG Gil, Blake, Dixon, Peeler
SG Hughes, Gil, Dixon, Profit, Hayes, Peeler
SF Jam, Jefferies, Hayes
PF Etan, Kwame, Jam, Jefferies
C Haywood, Kwame, Etan

If you have a 8 man rotation for most the minutes, everyone else is riding the bench or get less then 10 min. but I know this wont happen. Hayes will play somewhere for 20 min.

Gil, Hughes, Jam, Etan, Haywood, Blake, Jefferies and Kwame



I use a site called 82games.com, it is a great site for a true statitiscal measure of how a player impacts a game. Right now Kwame has a negetive impact, but since his sample size is so small (he really hasn't played big minutes) and that he had a very good (positive) impact last year, it suggests that Kwame when he's up and running, will be a huge positive for this team. Peeler should be the primary guard off the bench right now. He's a better defender than Hayes and Dixon. He's also a vet who
s more reliable and a better shooter. My ideal roation would be:


STARTERS:
PG: Arenas
SG: Hughes
SF: Jamison
PF: Kwame
C: Haywood

Bench:
PG: Blake/Dixon
SG: Peeler/Dixon
SF: Hayes/Jefferies
PF: Jefferies
C: Etan

IR:
1) Ramos
2) Profit
3) Walker

My minutes would be:

PG: Arenas (38 min), Blake (6 min), Hughes (4 min)
SG: Hughes (32 min), Peeler (12 min), Hayes (4 min)
SF: Jamison (30 min), Jefferies (14 min), Hayes (4 min)
PF: Kwame (32 min), Jefferies (8 min), Jamison (8 min)
C: Haywood (32 min), Etan (16 min)

[hands11]

My minutes would be:

PG: Arenas (38 min), Blake (6 min), Hughes (4 min)
SG: Hughes (32 min), Peeler (12 min), Hayes (4 min)
SF: Jamison (30 min), Jefferies (14 min), Hayes (4 min)
PF: Kwame (32 min), Jefferies (8 min), Jamison (8 min)
C: Haywood (32 min), Etan (16 min)


Excellent post.

I like what you did.

I like Etan getting minutes at PF but that makes things more complicated. Playing him at Center works well, only, I cant see us not playing him at PF with Haywood at C.

Arenas
Hughes
Jamison
Etan
Haywood

This is a nice line up.

I think we would be making a huge mistake not giving Blake more minutes. I would give him those 4 minutes at PG that you gave Hughes, since Hughes and Gil mix back and forth when they are on the floor together. Give Hughes more minutes at SG with Blake at the PG. Take them from Peeler and Hayes. In my world, Hayes doesnt even play. I would rather give those minutes to Dixon and Profit if needed, but it probably wont happen. I would also want to see PG Blake and SG Gil some. Then Gil can consentrate on hitting 3's. Again, these min would come from Peeler. Basically, why play Peeler over Hughes and Gil at the SG when Blake can play PG. Blake has shown he can nail the 3 also and I would guess he most likely runs the Printon offense better then anyone on the team. Remember, he is a true PG and sharp as a whip. He is a gamer. He is going to fight hard for minutes and make you play him. I believe he is driven to prove he can be a star in this league, though he may end up doing it somewhere else. Peeler can sit on the bench and still be a vet influence. Hayes hasnt proven to me he deserves minutes. He has some time to prove this before Etan gets back.

I like what you did with Kwame, you left him in one place. I think he needs to know what game he is working on but I give him some minutes at Center to keep him sharp.


PG: Arenas (28 min), Blake (20 min)
SG: Hughes (38 min), Arenas (10 min)
SF: Jamison (38 min), Jefferies (10 min)
PF: Kwame (28 min), Etan (12 min), Jefferies (8 min)
C: Haywood (28min), Etan (14 min), Kwame (6 min)

Here is your 8 man rotation.
Bench: Dixon, Hayes, Ruffin, Ramos

IR Peeler, Profit

Cut: Walker

There just arent any minutes from this line up that I would rather give to Peeler or Hayes unless you go small and give Hayes a few minutes at SF instead of Jefferies now and again.

I dont think we need the Vet influence of Walker and Peeler like we did up until this point. Gil has matured. Jamison is mature, Hughes is mature, Etan will show maturity once he is playing again. Blake is mentally solid and a leader. We just don't need Peeler once we get Blake back. He isnt in the future plans anyway. I would like to see Profit on the active roster but I needed 2 bigs and 2 smalls on the bench. I couldn't pull Dixon, I would like to pull Hayes. No way Ruffin gets pulled because we need a back up F, and I want to have Ramos active because he needs garbage minutes. I hope Hayes gets hurt so we can play Profit and see what he has. If he ends up being a Simmons, trade Hayes because Profit doesnt cost you anything compared to Hayes and he is way tougher. Hayes is a pussss. Nice smile though.

[Bugs']

I am starting to agree with you about Hayes....he is not looking like a 1st round #10 overall pick...

[fixer26er]

Originally posted by hands11


True again. I think Etan will definately bench Ruffin.



Actually, I meant once Etan is back, Haywood will get less PT due to EJ's love affair with Ruffin and Etan.

[mhd24]

Originally posted by fixer26er


Actually, I meant once Etan is back, Haywood will get less PT due to EJ's love affair with Ruffin and Etan.

If this occurs, than I hope Grunfeld fires Eddie Jordan.

[hands11]

Originally posted by fixer26er


Actually, I meant once Etan is back, Haywood will get less PT due to EJ's love affair with Ruffin and Etan.

This is why he should run this line up. In this senerio, Haywood is playing more minutes then he is now.

PG: Arenas (28 min), Blake (20 min)
SG: Hughes (38 min), Arenas (10 min)
SF: Jamison (38 min), Jefferies (10 min)
PF: Kwame (28 min), Etan (12 min), Jefferies (8 min)
C: Haywood (28min), Etan (14 min), Kwame (6 min)

Here is your 8 man rotation.
Bench: Dixon, Hayes, Ruffin, Ramos

IR Peeler, Profit

Cut: Walker

[NotInOurHouse]

he is not a big time coach...what in the he!! was he doing putting in Blake tonight against Billups. Where was peeler?....He should have called that timeout when the game was tied and Detroit just missed with around like a min. left., the consequence was hughes running down the court like a maniac against four guys. Jordan needs to get control of the team. Also Hayes needs to be sat down if you are not going to get any offense out of him because he is a liability on defense. I think we win this game if Etan was in so Im going to hold the rest of the criticism until he comes back

[Bugs']

Originally posted by NotInOurHouse
he is not a big time coach...what in the he!! was he doing putting in Blake tonight against Billups. Where was peeler?....He should have called that timeout when the game was tied and Detroit just missed with around like a min. left., the consequence was hughes running down the court like a maniac against four guys. Jordan needs to get control of the team. Also Hayes needs to be sat down if you are not going to get any offense out of him because he is a liability on defense. I think we win this game if Etan was in so Im going to hold the rest of the criticism until he comes back

Billups killed us tonight with his dribble penetration and his ability to hit the three ball....Blake did a hell of alot better than Arenas did on defending Billups....I don't see Peeler doing any better.